"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eb102b5802fd4c3c90c4799e5c7723a7\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002211285c1a9d8d448e9dc5104399c68ec8\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226d8e2b56a1b8434caf094bb83f3550b7\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cbe0ba17fc5d43a9af44257215474ec4\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e30832dce36b41e4baf15138d7a744d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e30832dce36b41e4baf15138d7a744d4\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. Amene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f28a0bf676e647e2a442847be32cc628\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Rulings\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022761075f322194f98b9a22388e7a965e4\u0022\u003EWithdrawal and Apology\u2014Process\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002268e0cef00440432eb429e42cc17af7e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268e0cef00440432eb429e42cc17af7e0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, yesterday following question time, the Hon Kieran McAnulty raised with me whether the proper procedure for members withdrawing and apologising was being followed. In the first instance yesterday, the Acting Prime Minister withdrew and apologised but only after prefacing it with further comment. I want to reinforce that a member is required to withdraw and apologise, and they must do so without qualification and no other words must be used\u2014Speakers\u2019 ruling 60/6. Doing otherwise is highly disorderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EIn the second instance, Debbie Ngarewa-Packer raised a point of order after an exchange during question No. 12 that was hard for me to hear because of the noise in the Chamber. The Rt Hon Winston Peters was addressing a very serious matter that is of concern to all MPs. Interjections should always be rare and reasonable, and they should be calibrated to recognise the seriousness of the matter before the House, a matter that has generated significant passion and concern from all sides of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EThe Minister\u2019s reply to an interjection caused offence. I didn\u2019t hear the words used, due again to the volume of interjection. However, I invited the Minister to withdraw and apologise. He contested that the response was offensive. I\u2019ve now read the Hansard and concluded that while the exchange and the voluminous contribution across the House was disorderly, there is no further action to be taken, and I would refer members, if they want greater clarification, to read the Hansard of question No. 10 from 23 July.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to thank the Hon Kieran McAnulty for directing me to the words of the former member of the seat of Ilam while he was shadow Leader of the House. It was fascinating and exceptionally good reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cec68f503b4f4d369521cf1b3b5f0ab9\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0cca2bb630247d199733c7214eca644\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c561c5722f4f2590921610d7344642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c561c5722f4f2590921610d7344642\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. Ministers have delivered two papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002205d03726a6bf4ff2b197caa56d334ed8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205d03726a6bf4ff2b197caa56d334ed8\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EGovernment Response to the Report of the Petitions Committee on the Petition of Christian van der Pump\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2025-2029 Statement of Strategic Intentions for the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9d88ac1faaa4444b59f304ac91c782e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9d88ac1faaa4444b59f304ac91c782e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled Promoting Integrity in the Public Service. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. No select committee reports have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3192e9c8fac42cbb9c1c60f3a37506b\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c3670059b53c4df9ab31ebf8e32cbfbd\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f175b72f4378488591f04ed88c0c6632\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Regional Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u002272e6c543615b4ec29593c2bcc681a159\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272e6c543615b4ec29593c2bcc681a159\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Regional Development: What recent announcements has he made regarding geothermal energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd97f1d6813c48348fab7efb41f99370\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd97f1d6813c48348fab7efb41f99370\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier today, I announced the first site for supercritical geothermal further exploration. This is an exciting development and a contributor to energy resilience. The location is the Rotokawa geothermal reservoir, and it is on Tauhara land. It\u2019s a classic example of where the Crown can work effectively with M\u0101ori land owners\u2014both committed to expanding the supply of energy for the future development of our country. Obviously, it builds upon the $60 million committed from the Regional Infrastructure Fund, as a practical demonstration of how we can better secure the future of energy resilience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4dac426f05a47d7a177c4022872b8f3\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: What else can he tell us regarding supercritical geothermal energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022743f1da7b5f148e1884d9f96a4988a40\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: This is a challenging area. Not only does New Zealand have a high calibre and a high range of graduates in terms of this natural resource industry but the technicalities and the demanding engineering requirements mean that we will be drawing on international talent and using homegrown expertise. The first phase of this project involves not only further prefeasibility studies, but we will be able to borrow on the broad range of experiences that are now within the New Zealand economy as a consequence of having a long period of development of this industry. I expect drilling to start within the next 18 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a29d735d4dc1493e850890e89e1b70a1\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this energy important for New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acaa3db9ba5f4dfc8e293ddfa445073f\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, given that the Opposition spokesman for energy has repeated the Labour Party assertion that they will be repealing the legislation recently passed, where we have overturned the oil and gas ban, we now need to ensure that our energy future is not held hostage to vanity politics by people who realise they made a tragic error cancelling the oil and gas ban. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022421b4d5aec3547bd982d52b9fd8ac733\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: With all due respect, the rules are that you don\u2019t use a supplementary question to attack the Opposition, and that answer was certainly running as close to the border of that as possible. Just bear that in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea852da8231f4f6b8ab4b3d5b8a6372f\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: How does this help the regional economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d914142c2a8a4e3a9259b381a23335bd\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: First, I\u2019d like to make point of order, sir. Speakers\u2019 rulings are very clear that you\u2019re not a quizmaster. They are also very clear that question time is, essentially, a political experience. I think your admonition was if not unworthy, then unnecessary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245530fb6355b48de87b48f80922391a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Speakers\u2019 rulings are what guides the House in these matters, and it\u2019s long been a Speaker\u2019s ruling\u2014I\u2019ve stated it a number of times\u2014that a Government cannot use questions to itself to attack the Opposition. The Clerk has just provided me Speakers\u2019 rulings 205/4\u2014it shouldn\u2019t bring other parties into answers\u2014plus 181/3. Here\u2019s the point: a Government obviously has the ability to point to situations that they have inherited, and the latter part of the question most certainly did, but referring to comments from spokespeople is outside of that, in my opinion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d02cc4c4c7a24e5ab8288fbb3691526a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Speakers\u2019 ruling 206/7 makes it very clear that question time is a political experience, and it actually uses the expression \u201Cquizmaster\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221395a308381e48f5a4dc6321b592bcce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that was in reference to a former quizmaster who operated in this Chair and who actually also insisted that all questions begin with \u201Cwhere\u201D, \u201Cwhen\u201D, \u201Cwhat\u201D, or \u201Cwhy\u201D. I certainly have not followed that practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022923e088ee3754286bb009f1a9ad43775\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, can I just make this point on this issue: we\u2019re talking about a policy or concern where most countries would seek bipartisan support so there\u2019s a continuation of the policy election by election, regardless of there being a change of Government. The inability to make that point that that bipartisanship doesn\u2019t exist is surely not just politicking; it\u2019s making a clear statement that the people outside there need to know. This is a conversation not just with ourselves but with everybody out there in the thousands. People listening need to know we\u2019ve lost the chance of our bipartisan approach, and that\u2019s not attacking the Opposition; it\u2019s just stating a fact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd6f5f8ee01740d0a5da50e8b1cc08a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it depends on where you position that bipartisan point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207e560b8a4d442d1876ba8a5c1959744\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc8bf99e410a4a01b3df507ed81e2e1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re not, because I\u2019m speaking at the moment, so sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228692e7cc7efd4c2bafa0241bfd22e60a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I thought you had finished, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b55202879a0e42d49dfd42c604bb1384\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The second part of the question, which was totally in order, talked about the Government repeal of the oil and gas ban. That in itself could be a question about whether or not there was a bipartisan position taken. Of course it\u2019s political; everyone knows that. I\u2019m just saying the opening of that question was pretty much designed by way of attack. Speaking to the point of order\u2014it had better be relevant because I\u2019ve had a lot to say and if the member had listened, she wouldn\u2019t have much more to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9f9cc59f4f4acbb31c14bb7f9f3986\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like to point out that the Minister referred to \u201Cthe Opposition spokesman\u201D. I know definitions like this are important to that party. I\u2019d just like to point out I\u2019m a spokesperson or a spokeswoman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e564a2bc5ade4979944c9fb7550555c5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m almost tempted to require everyone in the House to post their pronouns so that everyone gets it right, but I\u2019m not going to do that. I\u2019m not going to do that, because common sense should prevail. We\u2019re back on, now, question No. 1 from Andy Foster. Any further supplementaries, Andy Foster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227cd633eb79b44609d45e439c1bdb2e3\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Should I give the last one again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221310be3717114ee494f78c127f815cef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Beg your pardon?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc0fd72c3d0d4558ab07740781919c3c\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: The last one hasn\u2019t actually been answered, because there was a point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2fb1c66d8d5494389b67060c627e633\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I realise that. Just ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4542311a48b4b1eb0e15edd60adedd4\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: How does this help the regional economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204b40f728e77447fa3c13a8b3247d8ed\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Geothermal energy lays the platform for future jobs. It also reflects the fact that this is a very practical way of moving forward to boost the prospects of engineering, further investment, and ensuring that that part of New Zealand where this activity will take place doesn\u2019t disappear as some sort of rust belt. It reflects also that under the leadership of this Minister, great innovation is about to be visited into the energy sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32705637121440eb01d8e9238a6ea1d\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: How will this announcement in geothermal energy support the retention of skills in the drilling and exploration sector, and how are these skills transferable across oil, gas, and construction sectors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266f0ab679f604e488f0370aadcc61f9b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s well known since the oil and gas ban, a juvenile decision visited upon New Zealand industry\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229094fb4af3294016812e39b89639e534\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Here we go. It\u2019s the same again. Just ignore the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba5bd3681bd646c29864e9911ac98b39\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: It is also very clear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223af70312d44e4585baeb7e73d8f06ff5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hold on, Mr Jones. Sorry, Minister. You were making a comment before he made any comment that might have been considered unorderly. How you knew what he was going to say is beyond me, but it\u2019s not something I\u2019m going to deal with at all now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e601fab47f84946960e26f221b5b8de\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. We have canvassed this issue numerous times in the House, and you have agreed whenever we have raised concern when a Minister is expressing a political opinion on a policy of a previous Government, and to use the word \u201Cjuvenile\u201D, at which point I then responded, surely is not anticipating anything. It is in response to something that is in clear breach of the guidance you\u2019ve already provided.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd52f06d71f4641b827abbffc08a6c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I did not hear him say \u201Cjuvenile\u201D because of exactly that sort of reaction that was going on. Mr Jones will now continue with his answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248a3a90d9b3a47afb369a918c4dc595d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: As a consequence of an immature, underdeveloped set of ideas foisted upon the New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223085a506ea7649e7ad993aa3a98570ba\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e7f010c9847143c581f6a84977c6c528\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not\u2014look, I\u2019m sorry. If you\u2019re going to get to your feet to say that it\u2019s inappropriate for a Minister to describe a previous Government\u2019s policies as immature, then I think that either we\u2019ve lost it completely or we\u2019ve become such a sterile House that it\u2019s hardly worth being here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f7db8092324487fa4fc48b5e742bafe\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, with respect, that is entirely consistent with responses that you have given and guidance that you have given in this House before. You have made it very clear that it is entirely appropriate for a Minister to indicate things that they have inherited; it is inappropriate for a Minister to provide critical commentary on that. Now, all we ask for in order to keep order in this House is consistency in those rulings, and I would argue, with respect, that now allowing Ministers to use words like that is inconsistent with guidance you\u2019ve given to the House previously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f5ad7c643ae4c35b49a98d84a81e1a1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t think it is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227be74b326df4cc58264bfdbdb7fe031\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207c90c8902d44b8c990587b9e147f3c3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I don\u2019t need to take any more on this. Mr Jones, continue. [Interruption] Look, I don\u2019t want to have to send someone out over something as silly as this, but I\u2019m prepared to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6cc59136f14999931d21e3a716e47b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: As a consequence of decisions that have led to de-industrialisation, enormous amounts of unemployment, and the weakening of a key provincial city, it falls to this Government to look for alternatives\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6211e96d90f4cb29f41fd85b2fb8521\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, just stop\u2014sorry. For fear that someone might take a point of order over one or other of the words that Mr Jones might utter, we\u2019ll have this answer in complete silence, including from the Green Party. Mr Jones, start again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac5cf79e871f4fa397a29187fa608a7d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m answering a question which is: what is the impact on regional economies? The regional economy of Taranaki has slid down inexorably into a very dangerous place, where there is great unemployment and shops are closing. Fortunately, the men and women who have gained their experience in the oil and gas industry and the rig affectionately known as \u201CBig Ben\u201D will be deployed, but that deployment, sadly, is reflective of a very dangerous, job-destroying, industry-destroying policy announcement of several years ago, and New Zealand, in some cases, will never ever recover from the most destructive energy decision made since the Treaty of Waitangi, otherwise known as the oil and gas ban\u2014a virtue-signalling, juvenile attempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6b9793ca0d04dfda5a92508a019947c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 2\u2014Nancy Lu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221458338b2521449c98bdf8da3d682675\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you. I\u2019d just like to seek your guidance\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef49c8756f774b98834269b47b2b5b12\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on. Wait until the House listens to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299ca7d610cc247fab35467af00e915d2\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019d just like to seek your guidance on how you are looking forward to interpreting Speakers\u2019 rulings 204/4 and 204/6 in relation to, I guess, the events that occurred during this whole exchange following on from the primary question, particularly because in the context of patsies, I would say that those Speakers\u2019 rulings were clearly not followed. But I\u2019m keen to understand your interpretation of them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200d4ae3de0d2447c828b67a47da25a4b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, could you tell me what your numbers are? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a924de000ae747f7afd99524b8a78a28\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Speakers\u2019 rulings 204/4 and 204/6. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257ba19277b584258bbcca3764c3a237b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Right, we\u2019ll just look. Well, I\u2019m sorry, I just\u2014there\u2019s nothing in there that was relevant to the question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b60f418f55e741a888b6c103f3be6955\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: You might think that. Is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284c9a21084754352b98cb834be64fef6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019re going to have Nancy Lu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002222692db151f846f294eae1d059e6ab71\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u0022cb06e76c71794787b4cfa7036902c1e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cb06e76c71794787b4cfa7036902c1e1\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd950c55ab91413888374073c72117e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd950c55ab91413888374073c72117e4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E A fortnight ago, ANZ released a new set of economic forecasts. The bank\u2019s economists say that the economic recovery in New Zealand has been delayed by tariff uncertainty but not derailed. While GDP growth almost certainly took a hit in the middle of this year following tariff announcements, ANZ sees a stronger recovery taking hold from the fourth quarter of this year onwards as the full transmission of monetary policy to growth is realised. I\u2019d remind members that the fourth quarter of this year starts on 1 October, which is only three weeks away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bfcad6367f74457b7122dcac1ce8331\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What does ANZ say about the contribution of the primary and household sectors to growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc167208dbd44d892e09d28eb98dff6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: ANZ says, quite rightly, that primary sector exports have been the bright spot in the economy this year\u2014thank you, farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022922cd2a4c0d8453089c74e862faa509a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: High dairy prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee9239e2bbd244b69f09e73481345313\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not common for all the stars to align for primary industries, but that\u2019s what\u2019s happened in the past year, with a combination of good global commodity prices, favourable growing conditions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a9bbeff43f34786a5948db2dda13cb5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: The high price of butter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b49fdf1d4fe43c3916816ed9ac4f6d6\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and a relatively low New Zealand dollar. In terms of households, ANZ expects domestic momentum to gradually recover over the coming year as sizeable reductions in interest rates flow more strongly through to the economy. The interjections from the Leader of the Opposition are persistent but not witty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223212699d3dc64949be06c4f8dc0dbd51\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: She just can\u2019t help but be nasty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad9e472c04ce4cb1b012c8a88ea33e3a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Pot, kettle!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2fe89f015b943659c6bf2a92b2ac8c8\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Cheer up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c68e144fe1e8426ab4a8bb7162fe45e3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, for some reason there\u2019s high tension here today, so everyone just needs to calm it a bit. One person speaking from the Government side: Nancy Lu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad81d01d5ccc4dfa9ff00564d9cedc72\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What does ANZ say about the outlook for inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bbc497c60cd4190a7f00732ee9bc173\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Like other forecasters, ANZ expects there to be a temporary bump in annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation through the middle of this year thanks to tradable inflation imported from overseas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226451b8a37f914480bae5c95f27c0e1e2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Non-tradable is up, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ffc8b36c42409db14106e91f862c8a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: However, the bank expects non-tradable\u2014that is domestically driven inflation\u2014to continue falling, Mr Hipkins, and tradables, which is the more volatile series, to turn around again. ANZ makes the point, as others have, that China, our largest trading partner, is currently facing a bout of deflationary pressure, which is helpful for New Zealand\u2019s import prices. Overall, ANZ expects CPI inflation to stabilise around 2 percent over the medium term, which is the Reserve Bank\u2019s target under this Government. This is a far cry from inflation of more than 7\u00A0percent under the previous Government, and I would note that in the 2010s, annual CPI inflation averaged 1.6\u00A0percent across the decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7819a6957644817a3220f50f5c809c7\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: Is she planning to change the Monetary Policy Committee\u2019s remit to allow for higher inflation in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d46b0c62530c4d14872d9c6d7a64a404\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No. The period from 2021 to 2023 made it clear to New Zealanders how costly and corrosive inflation is. I have seen, from some commentators, recent interest in a higher inflation target for the Reserve Bank; I find it perplexing. One commentator said yesterday that this is a debate and a discussion that does need to be had; another, who has been chair and chief economist of the Reserve Bank, said it was a ludicrous point of view. I know who I agree with. We will not be hiking the cost of living for New Zealand households each and every year by allowing higher inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a0f7b1e0c3f542748baf7bc0dd6ebfac\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2101ef51fc34478aeed9adb0d854947\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2101ef51fc34478aeed9adb0d854947\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Acting Prime Minister: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00227bbba8b22a5d4e0094429c49a795ede3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227bbba8b22a5d4e0094429c49a795ede3\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Acting Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, absolutely, and in particular I stand by this Government\u2019s policy of cutting red tape to make it easier for existing supermarket chains to expand and for new ones to launch in New Zealand. Grocery prices are a great pain to many New Zealand households, and we need to encourage new investment in competition, because those are the things that result in more choices, more efficient supply chains, and lower prices for families. When people are driving across the city just to shop at Costco, it shows that people do actually want more choice, and that more investment can lead to lower prices. This Government is resolutely in favour of attracting investment and innovation so that Kiwis can get a better deal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263a24029182046318bfdbb959992df79\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why does he think the economy is recovering, when 10,000 jobs were lost in just three months of this year, between March and June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022837ba6ab93464944bc827244cd0dce6a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there is a cycle that New Zealand is going through, and it is causing great pain to many New Zealanders. That cycle involves a spike in Government spending and inflation, which has been subdued. It then is followed by the interest rates that were required to subdue that inflation, which then in turn have led to a recession because they have limited demand, which is the point of those interest rate increases. What happens subsequent to that is that interest rates fall, people have more money at the end of the week\u2014they spend more\u2014and you see businesses starting to hire again. As I go around New Zealand, I hear many stories that the better part of that cycle, under this Government, is coming into fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022319a5a4d5656492f9ebd8a46ece175fb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Nicola Willis that people who have lost their jobs shouldn\u2019t take it personally?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248f8bbd183d94164bd0fe192d34f2932\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The fact is that people lose their jobs for many different reasons, and sometimes people do feel that it is a sense of personal failing when there are events around them that they could not have controlled. In this case, the event surrounding them was the election of a spendthrift Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281335178d4704578b0d349480e15d1e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If the economy\u2019s recovering, why did the construction sector experience a $720 million drop in sales in just three months, from March to June of this year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a53d969f13a64fa9bd3f7d3e3c388b59\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This is a Government that gets out and listens to the people. It\u2019s a Government that hears the stress that people are facing, and there is no question that construction is under pressure\u2014there\u2019s no question about that. However, it is also true that we are moving through an economic cycle which began with a lockdown and a spending blow-out, carried on with high interest rates, was followed by a recession, and is now seeing a recovery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bb3b7b89e3341d5a5419ec1b1806699\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is economist Brad Olsen wrong when he says that the ongoing decline in the construction sector represents a \u201Cnew normal\u201D, and, if he doesn\u2019t agree with that, why is the construction sector still declining after nearly two years of his leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a638c227fc24e12b5a9282efdea9783\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Brad Olsen is not always right, and in this case he is absolutely wrong, because he\u2019s talking down New Zealand. If he is saying that we are at a low point and New Zealand\u2019s whole future will be low, then he is completely wrong, because one thing that this country needs is politicians and a Government that back them to succeed, not tear them down with negativity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f878d1d8533b4d25b1b2d23e81ab39a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask: if the policy bonfire of early 2023\u2014after the accession of the Prime Minister\u2019s job\u2014had happened a year before that, would we be in the parlous state we\u2019re in now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a59fc9f3f65e49789e4120de52b5f7ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014just no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb487e5ee3774eab8c2753ee70d42ebe\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a sign of economic recovery that 73,400 New Zealand citizens gave up and left the country in the past year, breaking all previous records?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca67b80cc78a41be87b2c4f06dbab630\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, many New Zealanders choose\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b42507c836d54e9085b79976a67c0b80\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. In the posing of supplementary questions, Speakers\u2019 rulings are quite clear: supplementary questions are not to be like centipedes. There were beyond two legs, to the extent I could follow the coherence of that question: Australia, blame, culpability\u2014it\u2019s like a centipede.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022763ee93da58d4740b1a1d6123ac8a728\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s an interesting observation. There shouldn\u2019t be those descriptors used, obviously. But if we follow the law to the letter, the Standing Orders and what they might mean\u2014and what some people might interpret them as\u2014none of us would say anything at all, any time. The question on supplementaries is that there should be only one leg answerable. If there are more than that in a question, the Minister doesn\u2019t have to answer them. We\u2019ll start again. Ask your question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207bf032336ad4ab3b2f456fbf26b6b9a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a sign of economic recovery when 73,400 New Zealand citizens gave up and left the country in the year to July 2025, breaking all previous records?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dce2697cc5245f1a2b91625b7717719\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We never like to see New Zealand citizens leaving the country. However, it is worth remembering that there is a time-honoured tradition of Kiwis leaving, enriching themselves, and bringing back much knowledge and skill that enriches our country. It is also true that our country\u2019s population grew by a net 13,000 people last year, reflecting that there is strong demand to be part of the New Zealand success story that is growing under this Government. I believe that it\u2019s the policies of this Government, that are based on saving money, spending it carefully like New Zealanders are forced to, cutting red tape and regulation, and building our connections with the rest of the world\u2014even as we build the infrastructure required for the next generation\u2014that will lead to a great success for this country and many, many more people, including our own citizens, choosing their long-term future in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204fe68a0d47c4ddb8f331a5af4257722\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Prime Minister confirm that there are $7 billion of Governmentfunded infrastructure projects that will be under way by Christmas\u2014Precinct Properties has just announced a billion dollar spend in the next 10 years on apartments in Auckland, and Simplicity is building 600 new build-to-rent apartments in Queenstown\u2014and that some members need to look on the bright side of life?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d1e24f136684605971493c71cd1368a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I can confirm both of those things. It is absolutely correct that there is a stupendous amount of capital investment coming down the pipeline for New Zealand\u2019s construction sector. It is also true that sometimes just putting a smile on it can actually in itself improve the circumstances. One of the things that people who have struggled through this winter, through this recession, need is some positivity and some positive leadership because, actually, things are getting better. What the Opposition are offering is just simple depression. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290e9c820ce894aad8dd6bf7cf189c9d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait. OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ac4ce7609f744c79fd657e72a2fb598\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So which represents the Government\u2019s position on those who have lost their jobs: that they shouldn\u2019t take it personally, or that they should just put a smile on it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ceb638a9ee442b6be885c191a1a8b01\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I know that people following at home won\u2019t have this problem, but for the Labour leader\u2019s information: the person who could do with putting a smile on it is none other than himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249845098e97b484ab9eab047148a64e5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question\u2014[Interruption] Sorry, look, someone\u2019s going to be out early today, because it\u2019s just a little bit too much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e6918e76b574a0881b7aec3ea5ec53f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u0022996c0fd00bbc4951ae19e627ac56653f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022996c0fd00bbc4951ae19e627ac56653f\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Housing: Does he expect the recent changes to support for rough sleepers to end homelessness in Auckland; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u002206294e9a3f924abcb6ea6d494459a7e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206294e9a3f924abcb6ea6d494459a7e2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E My expectation is the recent changes will make a difference for rough sleepers in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d723ee48a5a248fd8a8a225ca8caa16b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to all 809 known rough-sleeping Aucklanders being provided with emergency housing or social housing this year, and if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d96fc0d1a2c478d84fb244a395b45aa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: That number\u2019s dynamic, obviously, as people move in and out of the system. There is support available for all 809 of those rough sleepers. The Government spends around half a billion dollars per year on support for many of those people. For example, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) stands ready and willing to support them with social housing, with emergency housing grants, with transitional housing, with bond payments, with ready-to-rent programmes, with Housing First, with sustaining tenancies. There are a plethora of programmes that MSD\u2014depending on people\u2019s individual circumstances\u2014are ready and willing to provide, and we stand by those programmes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12e56baa6254dd4a55d533fdabe1a26\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Are Auckland City Mission wrong when they said that \u201CWe are deeply disappointed [with] today\u2019s announcement [leaving] these tightened eligibility criteria unchanged. Until the policy settings are changed, the number of people sleeping rough will continue to rise.\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217fc0feadea5405f9757ab4ae2b13869\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have great respect for City Missioner Robinson. The Government has said that we expect MSD staff to exercise greater discretion when it comes to emergency housing. But we are not going to go back to the bad old days of a free-for-all on emergency housing, which resulted in thousands of children living for month after month in emergency housing motels up and down the country. That was a failed policy. The Government spent $1.4 billion in five years on that policy, and homelessness during that time increased. That is not the solution for rough sleeping and homelessness. Simply opening up the gateway to emergency housing does not help society, it doesn\u2019t help those tamariki, it does not help those families, and it certainly doesn\u2019t help New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d707b17a30d455f8d51f42d3912d251\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just make the point that when a Minister is answering a question, he\u2019s not necessarily helped by people from his own Government barracking throughout that answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228de23b04b82f4f879282e30c8c95510a\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he at all see the causal connection between 50 percent of applications for emergency housing in Auckland being declined under the Government\u2019s policy changes and rough sleeping increasing by 90 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225990bdd456ed4ce588508f420fc04ecf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The official advice is that it\u2019s not possible to distinguish or associate policy changes for emergency housing and an increase in rough sleeping. That\u2019s the official advice. However, it is clear that we have a rough sleeping issue in Auckland, and indeed in other parts of the country. I agree with the member\u2014and, in fact, I\u2019m sure all members would agree with this proposition\u2014that no one wants to live in a country where that is something that happens. That\u2019s why the Government has invested 300 additional social homes, brought home almost immediately through the Housing First programme, which is evidence based, which has been running for a number of years and I think is supported by many members around the House; 300 immediate new social houses brought on stream from the private rental market; and additional support for those like the City Mission and others who are working at the front line of this problem. If it was a money issue and if it was an intention issue, the last Government would have solved this, because they spent, during that time, billions and billions of dollars, and the number of New Zealanders living in severe housing deprivation went up by 37 percent. The actual answer is to work with front-line providers that have the skills and capability, and, ultimately, fixing our broken planning system and infrastructure funding and financing system to make it easier to build houses more generally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c12e7ff6637497386c76c9db8871bde\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Was it a mistake to cancel 3,500 new homes across 200 public housing projects, now that he has to lease 300 temporary social homes from the private sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228241a6ad05514ef98cafaf6b21270386\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the good news about those 300 homes in the private sector is that they can be brought online in the next few weeks and months. If we were waiting for the alleged houses that were cancelled to be built, we might be waiting until mid - next year. I think the member is right in saying we want immediate relief right now. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve done it. In relation to the cancelled project the member refers to, it is difficult to cancel a project for which no funding was attached. The last Government talked big about funding for social housing. It never funded those projects. Many were in the wrong place, servicing the wrong people, and were uneconomic to build. That\u2019s why those projects have been pushed out. In the meantime, we are now building 1,500 additional homes delivered by community housing providers, much more calibrated to where the need is and, in particular, focused on the right typology. As I pointed out in the House yesterday, 50 percent of people on the register need a one-bedroom unit, but that\u2019s not what we were building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022267de7406ccf45feaff44f9643686b14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee8a17c5fe0e4eeab39ea7ec825918a7\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The good news is that we\u2019ve changed the funding system, and now 89\u00A0percent of these new units\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e37115868334d11821939eb6ba618ed\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wind it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022998be40d12a546d58be3945b5e27e8c5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are one- and two-bedroom units, which is what the system needs. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221789d14163774d64a256cde581bf0700\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4cab123c694d5f80121e80b16e7434\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: How quickly could the Government end homelessness if they spent the $2.9\u00A0billion on immediate housing support instead of tax cuts for landlords and property speculators?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211807625e463458bbf7c88c6c280f426\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I remember another person standing in this House in 2017 and saying, \u201CWe will end homelessness by Christmas.\u201D Billions and billions and billions of dollars later, where are we? So it\u2019s all very well to talk big. It\u2019s all very well to rely on intentions and good thinking. It\u2019s all very well to have the right intention. Solving this problem is not as simple as standing up and saying, \u201CI want to do something\u201D\u2014I wish it was the case\u2014\u201Cand all I need to do is throw money at it.\u201D It is not that simple, and, actually, members who understand this problem know that. The solutions are to make sure we get calibrated support for those who need it, work with front-line providers, build more social houses in the right places, and, ultimately, fix our broken housing system. Good intentions are not enough. You have to have a plan. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d74102c93d3a4a598efe1f4c5e487c45\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When we\u2019re all quiet, the Rt Hon Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213d0b929ac764273a38afaad1a682c49\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any particular reason why so many homeless are going to, in particular, Auckland Central?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022291fa56aea56476c80f4ae0931c391ae\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Auckland Central is a wonderful place. It does have its challenges, but we are providing additional support for the challenges in Auckland Central, as we are in Wellington and other parts of the country. We\u2019ll continue to provide that support and, most importantly, we are focused on fixing our broken housing market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223077f546452f4c6e850cd5d2ddb64a49\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022 data-id=\u002208b34505d73b4ee89231b1c8cd4c7c7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208b34505d73b4ee89231b1c8cd4c7c7c\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What recent announcements has he made about the transport infrastructure pipeline?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2316f277adf4123a582b8ab6158d048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2316f277adf4123a582b8ab6158d048\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s been a busy few weeks. A few weeks ago, we announced $6 billion of infrastructure projects starting by Christmas. I\u2019m pleased to tell the House that number is now $7 billion, including a range of transport projects\u2014huge number, meaning spades in the ground, jobs throughout the country, and a stronger economy. Now, the numbers do vary a bit, but the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission estimate for every billion dollars of infrastructure investments about 4,500 jobs. Of course, we are a Government committed to building an enduring, credible transport infrastructure pipeline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c780e0cc470641ebb4b15cd21b7f23d3\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db0528c59734c6892707b4d0a5f6cbb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that member\u2019s strong advocacy for this very important project. It\u2019s fantastic to be with her and Katie Nimon to announce that construction will begin in November on the $600 million upgrade of the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway\u2014a key road of national significance. It will four-lane the most congested 7 kilometre stretch between Links Road/P\u0101k\u014Dwhai Road and the Taradale Road roundabouts, with a new grade-separated interchange at Links Road. Construction is scheduled through to 2028, interchange works in 2027. Once it\u2019s built, we will have 12 kilometres of uninterrupted travel; it will improve safety and improve regional growth. I\u2019m told there will be hundreds of jobs into this region in the next few years, just on the expressway project alone, let alone the wider economic benefits of this project.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4b1629d84334e9fa2878418ea7c658d\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding the \u014Cmanawa Bridge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cf5708137ab45d19df79906db2be39e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: A few weeks ago, we announced that construction on the first phase of the State Highway 29 Tauriko West road of national significance will begin in October, the \u014Cmanawa Bridge replacement at the start. Site works start this month, full construction next month. This includes realigning State Highway 29 with the new bridge and making improvements with the State Highway 29 intersection. I\u2019m pleased to say a standardised off-the-shelf bridge design is being used that will improve delivery time frames. No more gold plating and bespoke solutions, as that member knows so well, and I thank him for his advocacy on this project. Tauranga and the Western Bay are growing fast, and this will support potential development of new houses and business growth in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022557f8b4439c64cc7afa562d6f0b46791\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding level crossings removal in Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a720806b852a42c4b3d54fd8b54c0863\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: More good news\u2014as Maurice Williamson used to say. It was great to kick off construction of $800 million of level crossing removals in Takanini and Glen Innes a few weeks ago, and I thank the member for her strong advocacy for that. The level crossing projects are a travesty on the last few years, because while we\u2019ve been building the City Rail Link, what we should have been doing was getting on and removing the level crossings to make sure we can take full advantage of this game-changing project. It\u2019s OK\u2014help is on the way. This Government is getting on with it: eight level crossing removals, three new grade-separated road bridges, and three new pedestrian access bridges on the Southern Line in Takanini and Glen Innes. They will take a while to do, they are expensive, but they are worth doing, and in the meantime, it will create hundreds and, indeed, probably thousands of jobs in that very important part of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caf6d683d43a4b89bd1c80ff1d8e335b\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0354e3612c641e2bff0eaa34e705551\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the answer has to be a little bit more concise than we\u2019ve been getting. All supplementaries are totally at the discretion of the Speaker. We\u2019ll try it\u2014Dana Kirkpatrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4a20ccd60ac4f64886537f79e7e57f0\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding improvements to State Highway 35 Mangahauini Gorge?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd29a17e3fe485182393b01f21dcd85\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: There are major works getting under way on the gorge on State Highway 35 north of Gisborne as crews tackle the final and largest phase of the Cyclone Gabrielle recovery efforts. Once it\u2019s open in mid-2026, it will be open to two lanes of traffic for the first time since Cyclone Gabrielle. Much of the work will take place around the river where repeated weather events have shifted the riverbeds\u2014about a $50\u00A0million programme of work delivered by local East Coast contractors. I know the member will appreciate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022851843ddf69541678635fdd5702b189b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5e4b33d4edc4346bafe5d342fe2ae1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5e4b33d4edc4346bafe5d342fe2ae1c\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by all her statements and actions in relation to the resignations of the former Reserve Bank Chair and Governor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u00225f1f49da84654c18b3ec45585b464567\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f1f49da84654c18b3ec45585b464567\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E In context, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225812b4a2bcd44b8d8aedf57ca363bdec\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: When the former Reserve Bank chair said on 5 March that Adrian Orr\u2019s resignation was a \u201Cpersonal decision\u201D, did she consider that characterisation to be misleading?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237fc56aea91e446f8d38ac0c87192f9a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: At that time, I relied on the judgment of the Reserve Bank chair that that was as much as he could say at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225024d1f8e6784523a62450d04ec2f3c6\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Did she receive any communications that the Reserve Bank board was going to recommend to her that she remove the former Reserve Bank Governor; if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242584fa651a84cb39ee0e0833878139a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I have previously set this out in the House, which is that on 27 February I received a text message from Iain Rennie, who is the Secretary to the Treasury, informing me that an employment process had commenced between the Reserve Bank and the Governor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd68cc266beb4acfa7ed5f43be5a7d3d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she failing to confirm the contents of that text, which has only just been released by the Treasury, which says, \u201CNeil\u2019s current thinking is that you could receive recommendation later next week unless decision is taken to go down a voluntary exit route. Neil has committed to let me know of any significant developments.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a9c302f46934a4fb5db61c7e68b9947\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we have released those text messages, which were initially withheld because when that Official Information Act request initially came through, there was an employment process referred to in those text messages that had not been made public by the employer. Therefore, it was considered that the information in the text messages was subject to an obligation of confidence. However, now the Reserve Bank has made more information about the former Governor\u2019s exit public, which I have welcomed, and the text messages no longer can be considered confidential. That is why Treasury has reassessed the need to withhold and has released those text messages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2cdb4988085418cb0c8d01185979083\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she not correct the record when she knew as early as 11 June that employment discussions had occurred because there was a disagreement about the level of funding between the Governor, the board, and the Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022257ceca4878c46bd8115c1e081ecd2b7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member is making a number of assumptions about what I knew. You need to remember, at the time, I was not aware of the specific concerns the bank had raised with Mr Orr. I was not aware of how Mr Orr had responded to those concerns. I was not aware of the details of the agreement the bank had entered into with Mr Orr. I didn\u2019t want to create legal or financial risk to taxpayers, and I did not want to be doing or saying anything that could be seen as politicising a sensitive employment process. I relied on the judgment of the Reserve Bank chair that he was saying as much as he could say. As has been traversed, it is my view that he should have dealt with that matter better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b1e89963ccc4704814fbba638fb5994\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Therefore, does she no longer stand by her statements made to the Finance and Expenditure Committee on 18 June?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eb1b1496e1b4698af8a1a5f8cfecd75\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I stand by my statements, although the member will be aware that I made a personal explanation in this House last night correcting a date which I shared at that committee. I made that personal explanation as soon as that error was made known to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224bb3510d6c844b36a87b214c3245946e\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she really believe that New Zealanders can trust her when she has withheld information, had to correct statements, also was on the possibility of receiving advice to allow for the removal of Adrian Orr, or, really, is the real reason why Adrian Orr resigned because she drove him to it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac315220276a442885bb210bd77bb4c8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: If Barbara Edmonds wishes to be the great defender of Adrian Orr, then that is for her. I have chosen not to politicise his exit from the Reserve Bank, which I think shows good judgment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae84c6a61264d1a93903124ac77b6e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just point out that the last part of that question was most certainly well and truly outside of Standing Orders, but it would\u2019ve rendered the question ineffective had I stepped in too quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237b077235ae8477fb6a87074a744ea7d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Space\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd6828cae10645e5b85bd160a2488539\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd6828cae10645e5b85bd160a2488539\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Space: Was she aware of the links between intelligence company BlackSky and the Israeli Defence Ministry when she approved payload launch permits, and, if so, did she raise any concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022722c05229914414ebb111dad9fa74520\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hold on. There\u2019s just far too much talk during that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022 data-id=\u002214f1ed199dc64a7a9b64c8f6c33405c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214f1ed199dc64a7a9b64c8f6c33405c0\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS (Minister of Foreign Affairs)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Space: When I took this decision in December 2023, I was advised by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) that while there had been previous contracts between BlackSky and the Israeli defence ministry, there was no evidence of a current contract. We\u2019d also like to note that the first BlackSky payload was approved by the previous Labour Government in 2021. The Minister for Space makes decisions on payload permits, based on MBIE recommendation, to protect New Zealand\u2019s national interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210592bf61f664907b1fbb4fe3b3594c3\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295a315e84fd743dca942b0490ddfaf06\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, just wait until the House is showing the courtesy of listening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c99c431a134eaf858283e8d9c63d62\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister assure Kiwis that payloads launched from New Zealand on behalf of BlackSky are not being used by the Israeli defence ministry, in any form, to wage war in Gaza?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07b2fe2062a48799bb412752b552bf3\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just say, very clearly, that the satellite is in the sky. What would the Greens have us do? Bring it back? I mean, the Greens might be lost in space, but the satellite is up there. The simple statement may be one small step for the Greens, but it\u2019s one giant leap for the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f63b4cfb3cbb48c1bc28720c5cbedf83\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022007297a410f24586a0a02bef5267285b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Points of order are heard in silence, and I\u2019m getting quite irritated by the amount of noise from my right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e40ebe0c6de422abe1dc496b706bf10\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The House has grappled with these issues over the last wee while, and it\u2019s a very serious issue. I don\u2019t feel that that has addressed the question, and the answer was insufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223533fc94ad764496b8dcc857d4503d19\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The answer skirted right round the question. The Minister might like to say something more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abf68de68d934fc194a0d53d711b60ba\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it goes back to the original statement, which was that the Minister was satisfied that any national interest risk was sufficiently mitigated. I\u2019ve already stated that the previous Labour Government approved it back in 2021. Now, the same Government, in 2021, approved changes to the payload permit in July of that year, when there was a current contract, and in October 2023, when they were in the interregnum role as we were taking over the reins of Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d200eac12f1442495a729c0ca26b199\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is it in New Zealand\u2019s national interest to allow intelligence companies to launch payloads from our shores that may be supporting Israel to wage their illegal war in Gaza?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277e20428720e4e5e8493c4a6a1a9699b\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Again, MBIE advised in December 2023 that BlackSky had previously worked with the Israeli defence ministry. There is no evidence of a current contract. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e2be1804c0b4a61bb34446c52ce112b\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Minister\u2019s view that allowing launches of intelligence satellites for companies that have links to foreign militaries and that may be used to wage illegal wars is consistent with our international obligations and in New Zealand\u2019s national interest?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002278e639067dfa4ab294b020b753537d26\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first of all, when the term \u201Clink\u201D is used in the question, a link is like a chain; it\u2019s not a broken chain, and this is what\u2019s being asked by way of a question here. Remote sensing satellites are general purpose satellites used for a wide range of purposes. For example, they help farmers manage crops, scientists monitor climate change, and emergency services respond to floods and fires. Do they suggest we should sacrifice all of that on the basis of suspicion? They are used for a range of security purposes. The Minister also imposes standard conditions on remote sensing payload permits prohibiting the sale of data to any individual or entity that is on New Zealand\u2019s designated terrorist list or subject to sanctions and regulations. Those are the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224188789fff2e4095a4cce4bf807c8154\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Why can the Minister not confirm if satellites being launched from New Zealand are complicit in the unfolding genocide in Gaza?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaa0fc8df06b4a25829583f450a72516\u0022\u003ERt Hon WINSTON PETERS\u003C/span\u003E: That member got all the way to that question, by way of conclusion, without one shred of evidence. The next question is: where were his colleagues in 2021? Where were you in 2021? I know. They were shouting out and making no sense, just like now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022788ec53b3a344288aeb917776316ce83\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022 data-id=\u002239e5f5f2f4d047c48a6a558ef2d64951\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239e5f5f2f4d047c48a6a558ef2d64951\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: What announcements has she made about strengthening learning support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c835344d0b1940e98f5c744ecd14fc75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c835344d0b1940e98f5c744ecd14fc75\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Budget 2025 delivered the largest boost to learning support in a generation. Last week, I announced the allocation of learning support coordinators (LSCs) to every school with year 1 to 8 students over the next three years, so 101,000 additional year 1 to 8 students and their teachers will benefit from the skills and support of a learning support coordinator working in their school next year. These dedicated staff members will be trained in structured literacy, structured maths, and to screen for common neurodiverse needs like dyslexia and put strategies in place to give parents confidence and reassurance their child\u2019s needs are being met. We\u2019re working to raise achievement and provide support on the front line. Parents, teachers, and principals have been crying out for this support, and we\u2019ve listened and delivered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae70f1a2cb4b4611a016416578e7301b\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: When can schools expect to benefit from a learning support coordinator?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c5bdcb50654a79a273d1ef2fe9248c\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: When learning support coordinator roles were previously announced in 2019, only a single tranche of funding was provided. This left significant inequities whereby some regions only had 18 percent coverage of their students supported by a learning support coordinator. Our fully funded roll-out will span three years. By 2026, we\u2019ll reach at least 60 percent of all students across the country, rising to 80 percent in 2027, reaching 100 percent by 2028. In total, nearly 300,000 students in 1,131 schools will benefit from these changes. Parents can be confident that we are aspirational for their kids and are delivering more support to put their child\u2019s needs at the centre of the education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147a22dba98642d1a7553032979f3d32\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: How has this announcement been tailored to support small, rural, and isolated schools?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022497b5f1a1d104a85b7b1118c1867c0eb\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve thought very carefully about flexible support for rural and smaller schools, where staffing challenges have persisted for too long, working with the rural and isolated schools association. Schools will be able to choose to combine their part-time staffing entitlements across intervention and LSC roles, making it easier to recruit and manage resources in their communities. School boards and principals will receive information that will include operational guidance, where to find employment support and advisory services, and time lines of roll-outs and phases and key dates. Guidance for families will also be available so everyone knows what to expect from this expanded support. Planning is also under way to deliver professional learning and development in literacy and numeracy, as well as that dyslexia screening. This is a Government that backs our rural and small schools.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a79dce1bdd6548a18814fd3af0555574\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she received on these announcements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487086f631594438958eae2db49fdbe1\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s been overwhelmingly positive. A number of principals have reached out to express their support. I note one who said, \u201CThank you, Erica, for consistently investing in on-the-ground support.\u201D Another principal said, \u201CGreat initiative; 100 percent agree with this approach.\u201D Another education leader emailed me to say, \u201CI\u2019m really excited to see this issue finally being addressed. It\u2019s been a bit of a festering sore for many years, and it\u2019s great to see the allocation being done in a way to account for those small, isolated rural schools that are often disadvantaged.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b169c9061b204d0fadec0954e28263cb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u002271d67772f8394803947dc8ebbfedd5b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d67772f8394803947dc8ebbfedd5b8\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing: Does he agree with the Prime Minister, who claimed, in reference to emergency housing, that \u201Cwe\u2019ve fixed it\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u002244afb008c553479f96ba3a4ef2536404\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244afb008c553479f96ba3a4ef2536404\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, \u0101na, tautoko au i te Pir\u012Bmia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E[Mr Speaker, yes, I support the Prime Minister.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EI agree with the Prime Minister in the context that statement was made. We inherited large-scale abuse of emergency housing that was a fiscal, moral, and social disaster and, since coming into office, we have seen over 3,000 tamariki, or kids, exit from emergency housing\u20142,260 accelerated through the Priority One decision that this Government made. We\u2019ve seen a reduction in the costs of emergency housing from over $1 million a day to less than $250,000 a day. We\u2019ve seen the renaissance of iconic hot spots like Rotorua and Hamilton\u2014they have turned from centres of taxpayer cost into generators of tourism receipts. We\u2019ve also seen more clarity given to Ministry of Social Development / Te Manat\u016B Whakahiato Ora decision makers around the need for personal responsibility, strong wh\u0101nau, and strong communities. We\u2019ve also seen the member\u2019s anxiety rise about this Government\u2019s success in getting emergency housing back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022429d1759d4eb478692adf0a959d7e33e\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: No need for a supplementary, that was a good answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a12dfc744b406ebb03ede904448de2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Questions are heard and answered. If I see someone else speaking when a question is being answered, it\u2019ll be the end of their day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d492a6f19e104947ad959313d1c5df8f\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Is emergency housing fixed when front-line providers are telling the Government that homelessness is now \u201CThe worst it\u2019s been in living memory.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257f892e9ce9641f1a0215c758b950975\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: What I can say is this: when we came into office, there were more people on the housing register in cars than there were last month.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f26c26791794686b8aa496ce75dae8b\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Is emergency housing fixed, when Auckland City Missioner Helen Robinson said, \u201CI am very, very clear that the current emergency housing policies have a direct impact on these numbers going up.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7ed9353c8cd4a49b9be55fc9918854e\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: We might recall in this House the Homelessness Insights Report, which members opposite have relied on for the last four weeks, and, in that report, it states officially that attributing any increase in the number of people living without shelter to gateway changes for emergency housing is inappropriate because there are a lot of contributors, fathers and mothers, to people living without shelter\u2014whether or not that\u2019s meth use, drug or alcohol use, economic and social contexts, or, indeed, broken relationships. We\u2019re not about that, and that\u2019s why we support stronger wh\u0101nau and stronger communities, not herding people like sheep into Ulster Street. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e9bd314094a47268064ed6ab4ad53d2\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Is emergency housing fixed, when Jill Hawkey from Christchurch Methodist Mission said, \u201CChris Bishop said in an interview that if people are homeless they could go to the Ministry of Social Development and housing support would be available to them. We know that\u2019s not true.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c14bf3f307814a2ab06ea8839f70a7a0\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: The selective use of quotes by the member opposite reveals his palpable anxiety around the success that this Government has delivered around emergency housing. We know that people like Murray Eldridge from the Wellington City Mission, or Paul Gilberd and my whanaunga Ali Hamlin-Paenga from the community housing associations, or Julie Nelson from The People\u2019s Project, or, indeed, Barbara Brown from K\u0101hui T\u016B Kaha have all said that the recent decisions made by Minister Bishop and myself around taking action to address some of those living without shelter are very good. The best decision that we made was getting all those kids out of hotels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dcea2b837554af28ae887d28fef439b\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Is emergency housing fixed, when, earlier this year, there were more emergency applications declined in Auckland than there were approved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f085e1986bf94da7a13bc5034cfaa7fd\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: The stats and the data reveal that most people who apply for emergency housing are granted emergency housing, and most of the declines are actually granted some sort of support. But I\u2019m sure that members opposite would like to elide around the data and truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022965b0bf680a144aa9eef33603db76bb1\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. When a Minister makes an incorrect statement in the House, they are required to correct that. To save the House\u2019s time, perhaps the Minister may wish to correct that statement immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1a08c3aaf641a9965871ae76134228\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not able to sit here to say whether it was correct or incorrect. The Minister will obviously take advice when he gets back to his office and then make a decision about what course of action he should follow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbe66fba8a7455c89621fa69e35a51e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: How much evidence from front-line providers will it take for the Minister to finally admit that it\u2019s his policies that have led to an unprecedented increase of people sleeping on the street?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecb02383163843ef8a336203cc15d0f7\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: There are members in this House that rely on hearsay, and there are others that actually go and find out the facts. We are absolutely energised and enthused by reaching the target that was set\u2014target No. 8\u2014to reduce the number of households in emergency housing by 75\u00A0percent in six years and achieving that in 12 months. Whilst others rely on outbursts, we rely on outcomes. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c3684a5102a49ed9eb1997fbee4c039\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Shane Jones, when the House is ready.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4d7ed15503c43e2879d5cff828b9bba\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: On the matter of emergency housing, has Rotorua been fixed after 2,000 people\u2014predominantly gang members\u2014in some motels were dumped there by the last regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298f2a88616dd454d925b0aca433b7196\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Rotorua is an absolutely beautiful and iconic place in New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243000e4aed334b49bc649c306f0f768e\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Based on the assertions of Parliament\u2019s selfappointed hall monitor earlier on today around the legitimacy or otherwise of questions, is the question that Shane\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220191e86950b4303b9c886608564895d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment! It\u2019s a point of order, and the whips on the Government side need to control themselves and the people around them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d3c531f79244b89092365c2e4f86e5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the question of Shane Jones compliant with the standard he himself was insisting you enforce earlier on in question time today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280c8c7e6b0f742d9b893e19715af6fc2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good point. It would be a good idea to reword the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022587ec6e296fd44ab931a0b470986af2c\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: It wasn\u2019t even a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b14c0b2163e432787b7e488bfdfeff1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it didn\u2019t start with a question word. I was going to stop him there, but given the \u201Cwhere, what, why, and when\u201D interjection earlier, I thought I\u2019d just refrain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d3888efd144782b0b54a2dfeba4045\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: On the matter of emergency housing, has Rotorua recovered after 2,000 individuals\u2014men, women, and children, and gang members\u2014were dumped in that city in order to solve emergency housing by the last regime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223cfb3ba00fa402790d6eb36c337514e\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: At the height of the large-scale use of emergency housing, over 80 motels were being used in Rotorua. Now we are down to less than 10 and soon to be less than five. I believe that we are fixing the large-scale emergency housing, if we have not fixed it already. We\u2019re absolutely determined to make sure that Rotorua is not a cost centre but is a generator of tourism receipts and an absolute contributor to this wonderful place we call New Zealand. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fa44b71636f46cc9c09f3b9cca57417\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fb18950adee49bca7a7c803daf6e445\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question probably does cover it, but a question word.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3bd46b81c8246cd91ec23b765dd1001\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: On the matter of emergency housing, can the Minister confirm that Rotorua is still reeling after having received $100\u00A0million to dump gang members in Rotorua?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff71f87ee6947e3bf66ea8ea5a5cdfd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not something he can answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db13ca9f134149eca8edbfe6b3061d13\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Land Information\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u00224dc84a1cce1e489490d1743fe46249de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dc84a1cce1e489490d1743fe46249de\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Land Information: What announcement has he made, if any, about the future of Watts Peninsula\u2014M\u0101tai Moana?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u002283136405404a4fb0a07b24daec9836be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002283136405404a4fb0a07b24daec9836be\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Minister for Land Information):\u003C/span\u003E In 2011, the then Government announced that Watts Peninsula would be protected as a public reserve for the people of Wellington and all New Zealanders. Today, I was pleased to announce, alongside my good friend and colleague Mr Tama Potaka as Minister of Conservation, that a reserve will finally be created on the northern tip of the Miramar Peninsula. This will be made possible by the transfer of 72 hectares of land from Land Information New Zealand to the Department of Conservation (DOC) and through the joint efforts of Wellington City Council and Taranaki Wh\u0101nui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eac02b8189b415392c3797447f32bdb\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Government establishing a reserve of Watts Peninsula?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f096e6b3ed72435996ec36f6bca05d8b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: Watts Peninsula holds deep significance for Taranaki Wh\u0101nui, iwi M\u0101ori, and many P\u0101keh\u0101 New Zealanders as well. It\u2019s home to important p\u0101 sites; w\u0101hi tapu; and military heritage from the 1880s through to World War II and beyond, including Fort Ballance. The public has clearly voiced that it values protecting this special whenua, and I thank everyone who advocated for today\u2019s outcome, including members in this House, former mayors of Wellington\u2014including extensively Mr Andy Foster\u2014and the local member of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d2fa5c3d1ea443eadabba47e636e5c8\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Watts Peninsula reserve be managed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022512ca039640f43d686cd0b8d2daae9c0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The reserve will be managed by a charitable trust, with trustees appointed by Wellington City Council, Taranaki Wh\u0101nui, and the Department of Conservation. I again acknowledge DOC and the responsible Minister, Mr Potaka, as Land Information passes the baton for this important work to progress. Funding for the reserve\u2019s ongoing care and maintenance will come from Wellington City Council and Taranaki Wh\u0101nui through the Port Nicholson Block Settlement Trust. Creating the reserve will generate a great opportunity to preserve and enhance and protect this important piece of land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225eb6ae94920d4f78aa64270934d6c3d5\u0022\u003EMike Butterick\u003C/span\u003E: What is the benefit of establishing Watts Peninsula reserve?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a24763ce8f4f87a201174715babfdd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The benefit will be felt by all New Zealanders and overseas visitors while protecting our beautiful indigenous flora and fauna. The trust will have an important role to preserve and promote the reserve as an ecological, historical, and cultural place of importance for everyone to access. I know that I speak for myself as well as the Minister of Conservation when I say how excited we are to celebrate the official opening of the reserve once it\u2019s ready for public access. The decision announced today will safeguard a treasured part of Wellington and its rich history for future generations to enjoy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe3e0251132e47e0a3d7de65cea66416\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Food Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u002297f42b413a7a481c81f6b6bc4994c47f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297f42b413a7a481c81f6b6bc4994c47f\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Food Safety: What recent announcements has he made about cutting red tape for New Zealand food exporters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022 data-id=\u0022b87e4a4ad63a44bba02cb2ebebe8aac4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b87e4a4ad63a44bba02cb2ebebe8aac4\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Minister for Food Safety):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, I announced that from 25\u00A0September, hundreds of food exporters will no longer need to apply for a special exemption from New Zealand law if their products meet the requirements of the country they\u2019re exporting to. Companies have missed opportunities to grab new markets overseas because of the time it takes to get an exemption, which means they can\u2019t respond quickly enough. This simple change will cut red tape, lower barriers to export, and promote innovation for those getting out there and promoting New Zealand\u2019s primary products to the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0553199a7f448fd883b16d55789a213\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Why is this change needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022babdeeb50f044153a172110e403bf31b\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: All food produced in New Zealand is required to meet New Zealand\u2019s composition and labelling rules, but citizens around the world have different diets and different nutritional needs. Until now, Kiwi companies who are feeding the world had to go through a costly and time-consuming process of applying for product-specific exemptions. They will now be able to manage their own compliance with overseas requirements. This is a common-sense change that will help boost exports and economic growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f38dffd3c874995accc532a75e395f7\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister seen any reports on the effect the new rules will have on food businesses?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ff82e139db4622809c4c51e5615f93\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Why, yes, I have. I saw a report in the media from one innovative Waikato company who noted how important it is to be responsive to international market demands and that the simplicity of the new rules will mean more Kiwi food on the shelves overseas. Export New Zealand said \u201CThe new approach gives businesses more certainty, cuts compliance costs, and reduces delays. It\u2019s a change that will make a real difference to Kiwi exporters competing on the global stage.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc743d86df88482ea1b5b35100ee49bf\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Is there further work under way to help exporters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a0cd4cd040744e29ad6e17b961016a9\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: There certainly is; this is just the start. While this change will help hundreds of food exporters, I\u2019m aware that there are some sectors where more work is needed to unlock that export potential. There is a phase two for this work that will look at those other sectors. I\u2019ve asked officials to prioritise further work on dietary supplements, which has a massive export growth potential if we can get the labelling requirements right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f26bdc9ca5724b0797c960255d728c2b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Commerce and Consumer Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00223bd8a5a772d84fd097610cc866848d82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bd8a5a772d84fd097610cc866848d82\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs: Does he stand by his expectation of \u201Cprioritisation and utilisation of the Commission\u2019s full regulatory and enforcement tool kit to achieve real impacts for consumers\u201D; if so, what is he doing to make the cost of living more affordable for New Zealand consumers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022 data-id=\u00224f0090fb56b14059a03268b870515780\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f0090fb56b14059a03268b870515780\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister of Commerce and Consumer Affairs):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I stand by my expectation. On this side of the House, we are absolutely committed to reducing the cost of living for New Zealand consumers. We\u2019re doing that with a range of things including, for instance, tax relief that benefited millions of New Zealand households, changes to the income tax thresholds, the in-work tax credit, and other measures that made around 1.9 million New Zealand households better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022133b277a04a94fbdb378b6e622f94a48\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps has he taken to stop misleading pricing and fake specials that would deliver real cost of living relief to Kiwi consumers, especially the staggering 62 percent of New Zealanders who have noticed pricing inaccuracies recently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022123f0ea145be46b88fa0ea27e2fe6629\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: There are currently three pieces of legislation I have before the Finance and Expenditure Committee. I invite the member and her party to support those pieces of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fad629475640998a1dfc021fe3723b\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps has he taken to help Kiwi consumers who are paying $10,000 more in a year to feed a family of four here than in Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c00080832bff4aa3a820fc3ceb1b3c1c\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in the answer to the primary question, there are a range of things that this Government is doing. The portfolio that I have responsibility for is taking a range of measures, including legislative steps that the member\u2019s party is most welcome to support if they choose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca01c0955e704e7fb9e685b6962e92bf\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps has he taken to help Kiwi consumers with the cost of insurance when house insurance prices are up 9.1 percent and contents insurance prices have risen 10.3 percent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7937ffcff394a3faae75c25eed93544\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: The member doesn\u2019t have to wait too long before some amendments to the Commerce Act come into this House for debate and consideration. I know that she will be looking forward to them as much as I am.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226474888bccbd4ae3a7e6cdf3fcae49e0\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: What specific steps has he taken to help the Kiwi consumer, a mother, who said, \u201CWhen I compared my power bills from May to July this year with last year, they\u2019d gone up about 10 percent and my insurance renewal was around 20 percent higher across my policies\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022141ab01c205943fcb2ae62b9dbcbfa17\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: Repeal oil and gas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228823993fe94a4301ae1da70e394fbca8\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: I hear an interjection about repealing the oil and gas ban\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221361a69aa25244998c9890a983432eaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just focus on the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f74931e4fd1b4d17bc4764930d3fae2f\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that would seem to be appropriate. However, on this side of the House we\u2019re committed to doing all that we can to reduce the cost of living. For instance, one thing that we won\u2019t be doing is setting higher inflation targets, as seems to be the policy of some parties in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022316be1b8ef7b420db03c7148193d13c2\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Is the real reason the cost of living in New Zealand\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cf074e02a79426f914817d7ac4a8538\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. All right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022835371dca7954548891e8ac7e1b9f185\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is the real reason the cost of living in New Zealand is so unaffordable is because this Government prioritised a $3 billion tax cut for landlords, a $300\u00A0million tax cut for tobacco companies, and half a billion dollars in tax rates for multi-national tech companies like Google and Facebook, rather than taking any action for Kiwi consumers who are falling behind?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220066361a618940e1bd0b156492dbaee9\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, and I invite the member to reflect upon the role that her party had over the last six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e791b8153414432eb6c0dcb245ce1c3a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. That concludes oral questions. We\u2019ll take a short break before I call on a member to move miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022322c2b72a50843018839761718247735\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228542131fc709461087a79f24f4a589e8\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u00225e05bf8f73bf46419c40742e58af037b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e05bf8f73bf46419c40742e58af037b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis is a Government, a National Government, that is completely out of touch with New Zealanders. This is a National Government that is making things for New Zealand families worse, not better. This is a National Government that is resulting in tens of thousands of New Zealanders losing their jobs. This is a National Government that promised to fix the cost of living and instead is making the cost of living worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EIf ever we needed more evidence of how out of touch this Government is with how New Zealanders are feeling right at the moment, it was Nicola Willis\u2019 declaration that the tens of thousands of New Zealanders that have lost their jobs under her leadership shouldn\u2019t take it personally. There isn\u2019t much that people take more personally than losing their jobs. Then we had David Seymour double down on that today and say that the people who have lost their jobs should just put a smile on it and everything would be better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThings are getting worse, not better, under this Government. We saw more evidence of that today. Official statistics out: 74,000 New Zealand citizens gave up on this Government in the last year and left the country permanently. When the National Party launched their tourism advertising campaign saying, \u201CEveryone Must Go\u201D, I don\u2019t think New Zealanders would expect their Government to be promoting a policy that drives New Zealanders out of the country, and yet that is what this Government have been doing: 30,000 fewer jobs under National\u201430,000 fewer jobs under National. But here\u2019s an even more startling number: 2,700 businesses have gone under since this Government took office. That is the highest number of businesses going into liquidation in over a decade, and it has happened under this Government\u2019s watch as a result of their bad choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EHousehold bills continue to go up. Feeding a family of four in New Zealand now costs $25,000 a year. That is $10,000 a year higher than in Australia. This Government has no solution for that. They have no answers. This is a Government that is making life more expensive for New Zealand families. Our health system descends further into crisis under this Government\u2019s leadership, and they have no answers for that either. The Government\u2019s major cost of living commitment before the last election was giving working families with kids $250 a fortnight in their back pockets. Can Nicola Willis name one family, just one\u2014I\u2019d settle for one at this point\u2014that got the 250 bucks that Christopher Luxon promised repeatedly up and down the country that families with kids were going to get? Suddenly, they\u2019ve gone very quiet, because not one family got the $250 a fortnight that they were promised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis is a Government that has prioritised foreign home buyers over Kiwi families looking for a home. It is a Government that has prioritised landlords over Kiwi tenants. It is a Government that has prioritised tobacco companies over the health and wellbeing of New Zealanders; a Government that has prioritised pay rises for company directors and not teachers and nurses who go out to work for New Zealand\u2019s future generations every day; a Government that\u2019s prioritised oil and gas companies over tackling climate change, one of the greatest challenges\u2014if not the greatest challenge\u2014currently facing humanity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003EThis Government\u2019s choices are all wrong. This is a Government that thinks that if things are getting better for them, then that\u2019s better for the rest of the country. Things might be getting better for them on that side of the House, but most New Zealanders are finding that things are getting worse and worse every day under the leadership of this Government. Most New Zealanders don\u2019t get to claim a $52,000 tax-free allowance for their own house. Most New Zealanders don\u2019t get to spend $44,000 flying to the top of a mountain so that they can film a social media video for their Facebook. Most New Zealanders don\u2019t spend 60 bucks a week in the supermarket on their grocery shop. Most New Zealanders are finding things getting worse under this Government, not better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u00221a588bef8dc645659720d41edfab3033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a588bef8dc645659720d41edfab3033\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Well, Chris Hipkins would have woken up on Sunday morning feeling pretty grim about life. On Saturday, he would have woken up thinking, \u201CIt\u2019s going to be a good weekend for the Labour Party. We\u2019re going to go into this by-election and we\u2019re going to take back that M\u0101ori seat off the M\u0101ori Party. It\u2019s going to be good times.\u201D Well, the hangover on Sunday morning would have been pretty grim, and he would have got to work on Monday morning and I know what would have happened, because I\u2019ve sort of been there, done that while in Opposition. His team would have said to him, \u201CMate, you\u2019ve just got to get back on the horse. Get down to the House and have a swing\u2014these guys are out of control. Don\u2019t worry, we caused the inflation that the Government has had to grapple with\u2014don\u2019t worry about it. We caused the economic crisis and the worst recession since the 1980s, which the Government has had to deal with, but don\u2019t worry. If you just turn up there and just keep blah-ing on and pretending that it\u2019s the Government\u2019s fault that we\u2019re grappling with job losses in construction\u2014don\u2019t worry, just have a go.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EWell, that was a pretty pathetic effort, I have to say. Judging from the looks on the faces, particularly Willie Jackson, who has seemed curiously down in the mouth over the last few days\u2014judging from the reaction of his colleagues\u2014I reckon they were as unimpressed by that as the Te Tai Tokerau public were on Saturday night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EI want to talk about what a putative Labour - Greens - Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori Government might be like, because it\u2019s been extremely revealing over the last few weeks. Now, Nicola Willis and I have been having a bet about what would be the first economic policy released by the Labour Party. We\u2019ve been back and forward. Nicola says that it will be capital gains, and I say that it will be a wealth tax. Regardless, they\u2019re both going to be stupid policies that will destroy value for New Zealanders, but that is what we\u2019ve come to expect from the Labour Party. But I\u2019ll tell you what, we did not expect what actually came out from Barbara Edmonds yesterday, which was extraordinary. Having caused the inflation in the first place through reckless spending, the first economic policy from the Labour Party is to drive up inflation again as a good thing, and throw out the Reserve Bank mandate\u2014the 1 to 3 percent target. \u201CWe\u2019re open to a conversation,\u201D says Barbara Edmonds. As one economist said, that is ludicrous\u2014really back to the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EThere are other policies that we\u2019ve had in the last few weeks. We\u2019ve had poor old Peeni\u2014and I want to acknowledge and mihi to him for the hard work that he did on the by-election. But I\u2019ve got to say that some of the stuff that came out during the by-election, mate\u2014oh man, it\u2019s like really out of left field. Banning gang patches was a personal view expressed as a Labour Party front-bencher. That was contradicted by his deputy leader and then doubled down on by Peeni Henare\u2014bring back the gang patches. Then we had this sort of weird thing about supermarkets being tangata Tiriti - compliant and it got involved in this little weird thing, and Willie Jackson, his putative campaign manager and senior front-bencher, said, \u201COh no, what we need is price controls.\u201D All of which had to be denied by Chris Hipkins, who of course has contradicted it. So who is running the show? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EIt has been interesting to hear from Labour over the last few weeks. It has been a clown show, and then we get to the other clowns from the Green Party. Now, let\u2019s leave aside the wealth tax and all the other crazy stuff. I actually thought that the thing people should reflect on is the actions of Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, because we\u2019ve had this lawyer who\u2019s been going around the place, allegedly, daubing electorate offices with paint and vandalising them. Now, it\u2019s no skin off my nose\u2014that\u2019s all good. But I worry for the staff in our offices\u2014who work very hard\u2014and also, frankly, for the people who want to actually go to the offices and be helped by those electorate office staff. It\u2019s the height of selfishness to do this. It\u2019s actually putting at risk our parliamentary democracy, and what does Ricardo do? Well, he writes a letter to the court\u2014a character reference\u2014for someone who is going around vandalising electorate offices. We are yet to get an explanation from Mr Men\u00E9ndez March as to why that is tolerable. I don\u2019t think it is, and I think that the public deserve an explanation as to why that sort of behaviour is tolerated. I think that it is really unbecoming of a member of the House, and I think it reflects badly on him and everybody else. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EThen we have Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Now, where to start on these clowns? T\u0101kuta Ferris posted this on Instagram\u2014let me read out the quote\u2014\u201CIndians, Asians, Black and Pakeha campaigning to take a Maori seat from Maori\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b4954546ca643a4bfb840c210bffad2\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e53b5af46448d39005d726417afc4a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go\u2014\u201CYes.\u201D, Mariameno says. It doesn\u2019t get much more racist than that. I\u2019m prepared to call it racist. Thousands of New Zealanders think it\u2019s racist\u2014actually, most people think it\u2019s racist. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003EDoes Chris Hipkins think it\u2019s racist? No. Chris Hipkins, who has spent much of the debate over the Treaty principles bill calling us racist, says, \u201COh no, no, no\u2014it\u2019s unhelpful to use that term.\u201D Well, I\u2019ll tell you what, I think it\u2019s racist, and we\u2019ve got to make sure that these clowns in Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and their bench mates in the Green Party\u2014who seem to stand up for all of it\u2014are never allowed anywhere near the Treasury benches, or they will drive this country into ruin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u002205b534dda96e48ef9142e67f64de7c7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205b534dda96e48ef9142e67f64de7c7a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Well, I think what that speech demonstrates to the House and to the press gallery is that Christopher Luxon is safe for now, because if that was the leadership challenge, it was sadly lacking. I\u2019d set aside a full minute in my opening reply to respond to the key points that the speaker from the National Party would make. In fact, my page is this [Member holds up notes], because he wasn\u2019t able to talk about the economy. He wasn\u2019t able to talk about jobs. He wasn\u2019t able to talk about the housing issues in New Zealand. He wasn\u2019t able to demonstrate what National\u2019s plan is for the current situation. All he could do was talk about Labour, and I think that about sums it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003ERight now, New Zealanders are leaving this country in record numbers, and we\u2019ve got someone making an after-dinner party Toastmasters speech. That about sums up the extent of what this Government offers New Zealand right now, because he didn\u2019t even say that the economy was turning a corner, because he knows it\u2019s not. He didn\u2019t even say that once, because the damage done\u2014the damage done\u2014by this Government is going to take decades to fill back. The jobs gone in construction are 18,000; the jobs gone in manufacturing are over 9,000, around 8,000\u2014high regions there. In the regions, where we\u2019re supposed to be seeing this economic turnaround, places like Nelson\u2014losing Carter Holt Harvey jobs, losing their Sealord manufacturing, and also those jobs in the Waikato. Ten thousand jobs in New Zealand gone in the past three months, and we get a Toastmasters speech from that side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EWell, I\u2019d like to highlight that the new data out today showed that 73,400 New Zealanders left in the year to July 2025. That is a new record, and that breaks the previous record, which was the year to June 2025. So, month on month, for each year gone in the past, we are reaching new records in the number of New Zealanders who are saying a big vote of no confidence and Christopher Luxon\u2019s leadership and no confidence in the direction that this Government is taking people. The reality is that it was caused by this Government. They came in guns ablaze; cutting staff left, right, and centre; cutting jobs, cutting spending, but no plan B\u2014cancelling projects up and down the country, but no plan in place. That is why 18,000 construction workers have left our shores\u2014gone. That is what\u2019s happened as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThe reality is, the fact they have no plan was evident from Chris Bishop\u2019s speech, and the fact they have no plan is evident in the actions of Christopher Luxon. When New Zealanders are looking for leadership, he turns up to IKEA\u2014not even for an opening, but to a reveal date. Well, he might like to know that 25,000 New Zealanders applied for 500 jobs at that IKEA shop. That\u2019s what he should be concerned about, not the reveal date. Next, we hear the Amazon data centre gets reannounced from what we all knew in 2021\u2014more desperation from this Government and their leadership. Finally, if all else fails, try and make friends with Taylor Swift. I kid you not\u2014I kid you not. New Zealanders are leaving this country in record numbers, and our Prime Minister is tagging \u201CTay Tay\u201D on Insta. You couldn\u2019t write this. You know, this is a time when we can\u2019t decide whether to laugh or cry about the direction that New Zealand is taking right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s no wonder that these rumblings on the backbenches\u2014and there are some more rumblings in the middle benches, but from the speech we just heard, I think he\u2019s safe for yet another coup. We\u2019ve all lost count of the number of coups in the leadership, led by Chris Bishop and Nicola Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EBut we need a plan. What Labour\u2019s plan is is to make sure that there are jobs where people earn a decent wage and it\u2019s enough to put food on the table and look after your wh\u0101nau, that there is a health system where you can get a doctor that\u2019s cheaper and easier to get, and that we can have homes\u2014homes that Tama Potaka and Chris Bishop are taking away from people every day. We want to build our communities. We know that by looking after our people, we make our communities stronger, and that makes our country stronger. That\u2019s, sadly, a lesson that this Government is yet to learn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd7a04019c894bb6ad23cd5c58674a57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd7a04019c894bb6ad23cd5c58674a57\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Minister for Women):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party spokesperson that just resumed her seat, the Hon Ginny Andersen, wanted this side of the House to talk about what we\u2019ve achieved in Government. Well, I\u2019d be happy to oblige today, because after the most egregious example of economic vandalism that this country has seen in generations, overseen by the Ardern-led and Hipkins-led Labour Government, this side of the House\u2014our coalition Government\u2014has proudly leaned in to get the job done. We are all about delivery. We are not about press releases, platitudes, and broken promises that this country had to endure for six very, very long years. We are focused on the things that matter, things that actually make a difference to putting food on families\u2019 tables and feeding our kids and getting them to school. We are focused on growing wages, improving health outcomes, reducing crime, and reforming the education system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EI note that the speaker that just resumed her seat was a former police Minister. She should hang her head in shame. The statistics that went through the roof under her watch are just appalling. Thanks to the work done by Mark Mitchell, our very, very engaged and hard-working police Minister, there are now 29,000 fewer victims of serious and violent crime than when this Government came in. That is nearly 30,000 people across New Zealand no longer being victimised by serious crime. That is the size of towns like Ashburton. That speaker should hang her head in shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EEqually, we are seeing health targets reintroduced and really starting to turn around a system that was on its knees thanks to the stupidity of the decisions made by that previous Government. They erased a former National Government\u2019s better public services targets. They erased health targets that were being imposed on the health sector, which saw emergency department stays skyrocket. It saw our childhood immunisation rates fall through the floor. It saw less and less people getting the elective procedures they needed and deserved and the cancer treatments they needed and deserved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThe proudest work that we have been able to achieve thus far in a very short 18-odd months is that we are turning around this economy and we are seeing promising signs of economic recovery. Inflation has come down almost five percentage points. It has been quite, quite extraordinary, the turn-around that can occur when a Government takes a firm approach to reforming the economy. We are already seeing 240,000 jobs being created.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThat is huge, but as the Minister for Women, I am very, very proud of the gains we have made and what we have been able to achieve and to deliver to improve the lives of women and girls of this country. This Government is very proud to be able to stand up and say we have driven the pay gap down to 5.2 percent. It absolutely stagnated under the previous Government, which took its eye off the ball, got lazy, and stopped doing the work necessary to improve the outcomes for women and girls in this country. We\u2019ve actually put our money where our mouth is. We have launched the first ever Government-backed pay gap calculator tool kit. It has had extraordinary uptake from employers across the country. It has had 30,000 hits already. It is just one part of our reform programme to grow our economy, to improve the lives for women and girls across New Zealand, and to encourage employers to hire people\u2014particularly women and girls.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EWe know, equally\u2014Stats New Zealand would also acknowledge\u2014that we have not cracked the nut on the ethnic pay gap. We know there is work to do in that space. Again, we are being bold. We are leaning into it, and I will have more to say on that very soon. We are having to make tough decisions to deal with the economic mismanagement that we inherited from the laziness that occurred under that previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EAs Chris Bishop rightly pointed out, it is a horrifying proposition for New Zealanders to look at what a future Labour - Greens - Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori coalition might look like. Imagine Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick being in charge of finances. Imagine Barbara Edmonds being in charge of finances. Imagine seeing the likes of Chris Hipkins having to accept the Green Party\u2019s Budget proposals to be able to form a Government. What an utterly stupefying proposition that would be for New Zealanders. On this side of the House, we are ambitious for women, for girls, and for New Zealanders. We intend to keep up the hard work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u0022959933b370d44dd6b3bfbd8ab5662c97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022959933b370d44dd6b3bfbd8ab5662c97\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. In this country, our economy is based on rich people trading houses between each other rather than an economy based on hard work that provides people the opportunity to contribute meaningfully and productively to the future and prospects of our nation. We used to have a country where you could work hard, save up for a home, set down roots, get a family homestead, and put away money for your kids to have a good education and a decent future, but now we have a society where there are \u201Chaves\u201D and there are \u201Chave-nots\u201D. The \u201Chaves\u201D have more homes than they need; they\u2019ve got homes in excess\u2014owner-occupied homes, holiday homes, and investment portfolios. They yank the ladder up on the \u201Chave nots\u201D, who grind themselves down in their 9-to-5s and then have to divvy up their pay cheque every week to go on higher rents, higher power bills, and the high cost of food. How is anybody meant to save for a deposit and be able to service a mortgage when there\u2019s nothing left at the end of the week? Wage growth has declined and barely keeps up with inflation, and we\u2019ve created a workforce of working poor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EMore than half of all household wealth in this country is in land and in houses. If we live in a home-owning democracy, what does that mean for the third of New Zealanders who do not own a home, and what of the growing number of people who are rough sleeping\u2014sleeping in cars and in tents or sleeping on the streets tonight? There is no better way to understand the inequality that exists in this country than to take one look at our housing system. We believe that housing is a human right, but our politicians treat housing as a business opportunity\u2014a chance to cash in on the uncertainty and hardship that many New Zealanders live in every single day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EAs we saw yesterday in the House, nobody in a position of power wants to give a straight answer as to whether they want house prices to go up or down. The Prime Minister wants house prices to rise. New Zealand First have abandoned whatever few principles they had left and allowed the door to be opened to overseas speculators because they\u2019re more concerned with the last names of Patel and Singh and policing the definition of woman and rearranging words on our passports than they are with New Zealanders, who they used to care about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EThey won\u2019t give you a straight answer on where they want house prices to go, but I\u2019ll give you a straight answer based on their actions and based on their choices. Their choice to cancel 3,500 public homes has driven up house prices. Their choices have meant that building consents are at their lowest in over seven years. Their choice is to allow 10,000 tradies to leave the construction industry\u2014the industry hit hardest by this Government\u2019s decisions. The Deputy Prime Minister chooses to undermine the Government\u2019s one genuine attempt to address the housing crisis\u2014to increase housing supply\u2014by saying that he doesn\u2019t want more housing in his backyard, in Epsom. The Prime Minister, as of last week, has decided to open the floodgates to overseas speculators to buy houses worth over $5 million, which will push house prices up. Their choice is to drive 191 New Zealanders out of the country every single day; the 18- to 30-year-olds who make up our working population are leaving in droves to go overseas to try and reach that dream of homeownership, which is out of reach in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003EHousing will continue to be out of reach for everyday hard-working New Zealanders, and homelessness\u2014even for the working poor\u2014will continue to rise so long as our country\u2019s leadership continues to deny young New Zealanders a fair shot at homeownership, which is, essentially, the pathway to social and economic freedom. We need more public housing to house people in housing desperation, to stimulate productivity, and to decouple our economy from housing. We need to zone for more housing growth but, alongside that, we need to introduce measures that break down the financialisation of housing. Most importantly, we need normal people in this House who, like most New Zealanders, don\u2019t own entire portfolios of investment properties and who make choices that make them even more wealthy and sorted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1509548ba2049a6ac2d03be853965b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1509548ba2049a6ac2d03be853965b3\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources):\u003C/span\u003E As a consequence of the weekend, Labour is in crisis. They actually have figured out everything but how to win. They faced the weakest candidate that M\u0101oridom has ever produced in a by-election\u2014she who had to rely on a cell phone to answer basic policy questions and then found that the cell phone wouldn\u2019t work and then was given an easy pass by TV 1. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EOf course, they say\u2014and Labour should bear this in mind, apparently\u2014that losing teaches you something. Well, let me list the things that Labour ought to learn. Number one: stop driving international investment away. Stop announcing summarily that you\u2019re going to destroy people\u2019s rights such as reinstating the ban, stopping people from creating new opportunities to boost our energy and gain better employment outcomes. Stop threatening New Zealand investors. But, most importantly, make your mind up where you stand with M\u0101oridom. Do you sleep with John Tamihere or are you the proud former party that stood up for blue-collar interests, fairness, and empowerment, or have you been completely overtaken by identity politics, trans issues, wokeism, and lost your way? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EThey say, \u201CShow me a good loser.\u201D I\u2019ll show you a basic loser. They have stumbled from failure to failure and, sadly, the winners of that tawdry experience are the M\u0101ori Party, despite the fact of \u201CFerris Wheel\u201D continuing to assault and insult verbally. I\u2019m glad he\u2019s suffering some sort of review, investigation, by the Electoral Commission. Maybe that will teach the lad a bit of humility and whakaiti. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003ECome closer to the matua. I know about those matters, because they might say to me that I\u2019m warm-blooded, but I\u2019m cold-hearted, because I believe that unless we use our own resources, our own coal, our own minerals, and we fly away from all this climate change folly that\u2019s designed to undermine our economy\u2014this notion that somehow New Zealand will single-handedly save the planet. Leave all that cultural Marxism for minority groups. One of them from the Green Party just said \u201Cnormal people\u201D. Well, obviously, she\u2019s talking about the matua, because there\u2019s no great normalcy in that party. They want to import Karl Marx. They want to import a whole lot of other dangerous ideas that will have the effect of ruining our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EAh, my colleague has said, \u201CWhy do they love Indonesian coal and hate Huntly coal? Why are they so internationally orientated and willing to undermine the resilience of our own economy?\u201D I\u2019ll tell you why. Because they\u2019re basically not only confused, but they\u2019ve fallen under the thrall of these UN dictates, these UN global imperatives, that are designed to drive New Zealand down into the ground, ruin farming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EAh, but wait! There is a champion in the form of New Zealand First, and we\u2019ve come from a highly successful conference where not only have we put difficult issues such as compulsory savings back up on the agenda\u2014and, yes, we\u2019re providing Kiwis with the opportunity to establish whether there is a place in the future for appropriate models of nuclear energy. Of course, people might quiver, they might tremble, but that\u2019s the cost of being a bold and imaginative group of politicians. We don\u2019t shy away from these difficult issues, because we know that there has to be a trade-off. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EIn the event that no one wants to have that discussion. I will continue on your behalf to dig for coal. In fact, I see a future\u2014massive coal diggings all throughout the Waikato to save the electricity system. Of course, the Green Party privately believes in me. They privately believe that we should go for coal, whilst Megan Woods kills what\u2019s left of the gas and the oil industry. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s sad for the Labour Party. The only reason they\u2019re holding on to that untruth is because of the vanity and the shallow sense of that particular MP and unwillingness to actually admit they were wrong. I have offered penance on their behalf and that exile, otherwise known as the political fugitive Jacinda Ardern, now living at Harvard, never to come back to New Zealand and face responsibility for not only having destroyed the economy but having undermined energy. But the matua will be back in all occasions, warm-blooded and cold-hearted. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u00229f0262e69b364b6185dfa1ca576a5983\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f0262e69b364b6185dfa1ca576a5983\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E National promised to get New Zealand back on track, and despite all the global headwinds and the deep hole we found ourselves in, less than two years on we are making some real headway. Kiwis this week can be so proud of our police, the commissioner, and of course our police Minister. Overall, Kiwis are feeling safer, helped by no gang patches around, helped by very few ram raids, and helped by restoring real consequences for offenders, and putting victims front and centre of our justice system\u2014and of course, more bobbies on the beat, including West Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003ENational is now also more trusted on education: higher standards, higher attendance, and many more learning support coordinators and teacher-aide hours as well\u2014the biggest learning support package in a generation, and I commend Minister Erica Stanford for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003ENational is squarely focused on growing the economy, thanks to the laser focus of our finance Minister and Minister for Economic Growth, the Hon Nicola Willis. Inflation is down, interest rates are down, farm gate prices are up, and farmer confidence is well up\u2014well up. Growth will start lifting in the last quarter of this year and will only strengthen and accelerate next year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EWe are getting back on track, and when the dust settles next year, Kiwis won\u2019t want to put that all at risk with that rabble over there. They won\u2019t want to risk that. We\u2019ve come too far digging this country out of the hole that they put us in to have them do it all again to us. Imagine Labour, Greens, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori coming together in Government\u2014a fellowship of fiscal doom. A fellowship of fiscal doom\u2014or is it an axis of taxes? The choice is pretty stark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at just three indicators, three examples of why they should never be in Government for a long, long time, if at all. Exhibit one: according to Treasury, it was the largest spend-up in the history of New Zealand. I\u2019m talking about Labour\u2019s completely over-the-top spending response to the COVID-19 pandemic. Treasury now estimates that Labour spent a mammoth $66 billion\u2014all borrowed, all still collecting interest, and now all limiting investment choices for us. Treasury has declared that not only did their spending go on for too long, but it went against official advice when they told them to put the brakes on. They refused to listen, and, in fact, borrowing spending only accelerated after COVID, fuelling inflation, fuelling the cost of living crisis, and\u2014guess what\u2014history is already showing us that they should be ashamed of themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EExhibit two: listen to this from an Opposition member. \u201CThis blows my mind! Indians, Asians, Black and Pakeha campaigning to take a Maori seat from Maori\u201D\u2014that was a post from a Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori MP during the recent by-election. If that wasn\u2019t bad enough, Opposition leader Chris Hipkins refused to call it out as the racism it was. That\u2019s not the New Zealand we grew up in. That\u2019s not the New Zealand we want, but a divided, separatist policy agenda will be the reality if this Opposition ever gets the chance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003EExhibit three: you have a woman convicted of wilful damage for vandalising buildings across Auckland, including MPs\u2019 electorate offices, and what does the Opposition do? They try to get her off the hook\u2014they try to get her off the hook. At this woman\u2019s sentencing for wilful damage, a Green MP writes a letter of support wanting this convicted vandal to walk free of any consequences. That would be the alternative Government. That\u2019s the look and feel of an alternative Government, and not to mention the absence of any policy so far from the Labour Party. The Green\u2019s \u201Ctax and borrow\u201D alternative Budget would tax Kiwis by another $88.8 billion, with net Crown debt lifting to 53.8\u00A0percent of GDP by the end of the decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003ENational is getting this country back on track. We are focused on delivery, growing the economy, restoring stability, lifting standards, building opportunity, and making our community safer. National is putting stability first and rebuilding confidence in growth for every New Zealand family. Kiwis have gone through too much and worked too hard to put all of that at risk. The choice in 2026 will be very, very clear indeed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022 data-id=\u00225426c5ce08224230af6f610b350b596b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225426c5ce08224230af6f610b350b596b\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Last week, the Minister for Disability Issues announced that this Government is finally bringing back flexibility to Disability Support Services funding after this Government took it away, effectively, 17 months ago, in March 2024\u201417 months of unnecessary confusion, devastation, and harm that they caused to disabled people and carers across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EDisabled people said that their world was shrinking because of decisions made by this Government. Disabled children couldn\u2019t use their funding for therapies that helped them cope with school. People couldn\u2019t use their funding for equipment that helped them to avoid pressure sores when they were wheelchair-bound. Disabled people couldn\u2019t use their funding to travel to a different city to see their family and said that they were being isolated. Carers, parents who looked after disabled children full time couldn\u2019t use their funding to take a break and access respite and get some sleep, all because this National Government took away flexible funding in March last year, and in 17 months, it reversed the dial and brought it back and decided that they were saving the world. It was dire and it was caused by them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EThen the press release by the Minister last week: it basically talked about the changes that they were making\u2014flexibility that people have marched down the streets for over the last 17 months. There have been rallies. There have been public meetings\u2014disabled communities calling for flexibility to be brought back. Finally the Minister does that, crows on about it in her press release, but doesn\u2019t mention a few salient points. She doesn\u2019t mention that next year there will be interim budgets that will be put in place for disabled people that will be based on how much they spent in the last 24 months\u201416 months of that was after flexibility was removed, which means that they couldn\u2019t spend the budget that they were allocated\u2014and now that will dictate how much they get to spend next year. How is that fair, and why was that not in the press release? Why was it also not in the press release that there will be a new assessment and allocation tool that will then determine, from October onwards, how much funding disabled people will get? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EThe sweetener was announced in a press release, to much fanfare. There will be flexibility coming back, but what was not foreshadowed was the potential cuts that will come in next year, within which flexibility will be brought back. That is in the Minister\u2019s own Cabinet paper, where she says clearly that it will be perceived as a blunt tool to improve financial management: \u201CThere is a risk that we will continue existing inequities, given the lack of data or explanation of the gap between allocation and spending. There is also a risk of unintended consequences.\u201D She says this pretty clearly. She also foreshadows the fact that a fixed allocation based on current or past spending could be perceived as cuts to packages, because they are cuts to packages that are coming. All of this is unfair and not foreshadowed by the Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003ENow, the total impact of the cuts that this Government has made\u2014we know that one in eight children in New Zealand live in material hardship where they cannot afford the basics like food, power, and rent. The rate for children with a disability or living in a household where someone has a disability is almost double that. One in four children who are disabled or live with someone who is disabled cannot afford the basics, all of which this Government is making harder to afford, directly because of the decisions that they make, plus, of course, unemployment for disabled people\u20147.9\u00A0percent in 2022, which almost doubled to 14.1 percent in June this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EThe care and support workers\u2019 claim was cancelled by the Minister for Women, who just took a call in the general debate and went on about how life is becoming better for women\u201433 active pay equity claims cancelled, including making it more difficult for those who work in disability facilities as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EUltimately, the responsibility and the blame fall on the Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon, who is weak, out of touch, and doesn\u2019t have a plan for New Zealand. The decisions made by this National Government are directly causing harm. They can only make their numbers add up by slashing services and cutting funding for those who are doing it the toughest in New Zealand. They\u2019re making it worse, and that\u2019s why Labour will keep fighting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac2334c9ad22422ab7f285dcbbe77258\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac2334c9ad22422ab7f285dcbbe77258\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E A Government of action and delivery\u2014we\u2019ve heard a lot of talk from that side of the House, but on this side of the House we\u2019re all about the action, we\u2019re all about the delivery, not just dreaming about ideology, wasteful spending, light rail in Auckland. We are delivering infrastructure in New Zealand, and it starts with the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway\u2014how good. Hard hats, shovels on the ground, diggers on site\u2014that\u2019s what a Government of action and delivery really looks like, not just dreaming. Unlike Labour, we see the value of infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EIn fact, this road could\u2019ve been built by now. We campaigned on four-laning the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway back in 2017, but, no, Labour came in, they wiped it off the table, they said it wasn\u2019t important and it wasn\u2019t needed. Well, it is important, and we are now delivering on it. We see the value. We see the value of a growing Hawke\u2019s Bay population. We see the value of growing productivity, of getting our exports to the port faster. In fact, it was short-sighted to stop that Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway. Labour was wrong to put the brakes on, literally bringing us to a standstill. The frustration we see every day in Hawke\u2019s Bay\u2014stuck in traffic lined up from Links Road to Taradale\u2014well, we\u2019re taking the brakes off. We\u2019re getting things moving in Hawke\u2019s Bay, our economy moving, and moving our wages up. That\u2019s what good infrastructure does. That is the way to achieve this, by building strong infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EOur region is an export region. We are the fruit bowl of New Zealand. We grow the best produce in the world: the best apples, the best wine, and the best red meat. We want to grow our exports\u2014in fact, double the value of our exports in the next few years. The way to do this is to build good infrastructure, build that four-lane expressway in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and get our produce off to the markets a lot faster. This is what grows local economies, and this is what creates jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EIt was so exciting to have our amazing Minister of Transport, Chris Bishop, in Hawke\u2019s Bay a few weeks ago announcing a $600 million investment into the four-lane expressway, announcing it will start in November. That is real hard hats on site, real shovels in the ground, real people, real diggers. We are driving progress and getting things built, and we are walking the talk, because that\u2019s what action looks like\u2014$6 billion of Government-funded infrastructure to start by Christmas. Great news for Hawke\u2019s Bay, and this will provide great Christmas cheer for the region, because, wow, is this going to create a pipeline of work for our local families: over 300 jobs. We do appreciate it has been really tough for our local contractors, so this is welcome news. The four-laning of the expressway doesn\u2019t just create a long-term connection between Hastings and Napier; it creates a strong pipeline of work for our local people and our local families: 300 jobs forecast and many local businesses and families supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just the four-lane expressway that we\u2019ve committed to in Hawke\u2019s Bay. We\u2019ve announced the Waikare Gorge realignment: over $1 billion worth of investment. This is the single largest investment in Hawke\u2019s Bay in years, and the four-lane expressway will provide road users with easy-moving freight\u201412 kilometres of it, straight to the port and off to market our product.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EBuilding infrastructure isn\u2019t just about bricks and mortar; it\u2019s about connection and building communities, and we saw this in Hawke\u2019s Bay, where our infrastructure didn\u2019t stand up in Cyclone Gabrielle. I was recently humbled and touched in the communities of Puketapu recently and Kereru, where we reconnected those communities with strong, resilient infrastructure. This is progress, and this is what gets New Zealand back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u00228583c884ee7543a49bf182592114b565\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228583c884ee7543a49bf182592114b565\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. When New Zealanders voted two to one for the End of Life Choice Act in 2020, they voted for compassion and for dignity. It was based on a simple belief that no one should be forced to endure unbearable suffering when they would rather go peacefully and on their own terms. Since then, more than 1,200 terminally ill people have taken that path. They have chosen to meet death with grace, calm, and on their own terms, often with their families beside them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EBut when the law was passed, it was a compromise, and to get it through Parliament, David Seymour, now Minister Seymour, had to agree to some restrictions so that, unfortunately, some New Zealanders are still missing out. While it was a remarkable effort by David Seymour to get this bill through, there are people who aren\u2019t able to meet the restriction in the law of having a terminal illness that means that they\u2019ll die within six months. As we all know, it\u2019s very hard when you\u2019re living with a terminal illness or degenerative illness to put down on paper that your life might end in a strict time line. It doesn\u2019t necessarily follow a calendar. I\u2019ve had many people who\u2019ve had to sit beside or next to loved ones with degenerative illnesses\u2014motor neuron disease, Parkinson\u2019s, multiple sclerosis, end-stage lung disease\u2014where their decline might stretch over a number of years, but it\u2019s known that their death by the disease that they\u2019re living with is going to be inevitable. They continue to live with immense suffering. Unfortunately, under the current law, they\u2019re told, \u201CYou do not qualify.\u201D That is not compassion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EI was very moved last year when I actually accepted a petition in August of last year which Social Justice Aotearoa had organised. Again, it was signed by over 3,300 New Zealanders, really drawing attention to this issue. It had actually been initiated by the plight of Nicole Martin, who lives with a degenerative illness in Taup\u014D, and she, unfortunately, wasn\u2019t able to access the end-of-life regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve heard from families across New Zealand about this issue, and that\u2019s why I\u2019ve proposed amendments to the End of Life Choice Act which will make it more compassionate, will draw it closer to the original intent of the bill by removing this arbitrary six-month cut off. The safeguards that New Zealanders expect will still remain\u2014the law will remain safe, it will remain careful, but it will become finally a bit fairer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EWe know that end-of-life choice is not for everyone, but I want those who do want to access it to know that they can take comfort that the disease that they\u2019re living with will be accessible for it. Again, what we\u2019re trying to do is just give New Zealanders back a sense of control, and often that is taken from them by an incurable disease. I\u2019ve taken the step in the last few weeks of writing to every member of the House, and they will have received this letter. In addition to dealing with the sixmonth restriction, I\u2019ve also taken the opportunity to pick up the 25 recommendations that the Ministry of Health published in their report, which was released at the end of last year. This was, again, a piece of excellent work done as part of the End of Life Choice Act, which required a review. I\u2019m asking to meet with all MPs\u2014some I\u2019ve already met with, and I know there\u2019ll be some in this House that don\u2019t support the change, but I\u2019d still like to meet with you and talk over the options, because it\u2019s important that we do actually have a dialogue around this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EI also want to thank the End of Life Choice Society, Russell McVeagh, and Social Justice Aotearoa for supporting the efforts to date. I also want to acknowledge the Hon Maryan Street who has, once again, come back on board to try and build some political consensus around this sensible amendment that I\u2019m asking is made to the End of Life Choice Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EI look forward to delivering for New Zealanders, because, at the end, this bill isn\u2019t actually about politics or law; it\u2019s about love, compassion, and dignity, and I want to make sure that that is abided by.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022f727a0c4f76d4e6aa8d6d2dd158cdf09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f727a0c4f76d4e6aa8d6d2dd158cdf09\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Teachers across Aotearoa are rightfully angry. They\u2019re angry at this Government continuously and relentlessly undermining, underpaying, and undervaluing them. We are seeing events unfold in Aotearoa that are unprecedented in our history, where teachers\u2014primary school teachers, secondary school teachers, support stuff, specialist staff from the ministry\u2014are coming out to oppose the relentless attack that this Government has on their profession. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re seeing organised strike action by teachers over the last few months because they have had enough. They have had enough of this Government, and they have had enough of this Government gaslighting them. What does it actually mean when we\u2019re looking at the offers that are being presented to the teachers? We\u2019re looking at offers that do not meet inflation. We\u2019re looking at offers that mean that teachers will have less for their wh\u0101nau, while we are funding other things disproportionately, like defence and landlords.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWhat we are seeing are figures continuously misquoted by this Government, trying to undermine the profession. We are seeing the Government talking about teachers getting a 4 percent increase in salary without realising or acknowledging the fact that 68 percent of teachers, who are on the top step scale, do not see that increase. We are seeing Ministers talking about teachers earning $140k a year\u2014wouldn\u2019t that be nice? We are seeing the removal of active pay equity claims. We are seeing the cancellation of resource teachers in M\u0101ori, resource teachers in literature, k\u0101hui ako, Te Ahu o te Reo M\u0101ori, Creatives in Schools\u2014just to name a few things that have been cancelled by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWe have seen the Government shamelessly parading around saying how much they\u2019re putting into education, without looking at the real numbers. They say that they are putting in three-quarters of a billion dollars into learning support; in fact, it is only a third of that. To use the Minister of Education\u2019s own word, \u201Cmost\u201D of that is reprioritisation from cutting other parts of the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWhy are teachers doing this? It is not simply about the pay. It is about the treatment, and value, and their voice within the sector. We\u2019re seeing that NCEA is being scrapped because of one professional advisory group made up of 12 people, who have to sign non-disclosure agreements and cannot go and consult with the public until it is too late. We\u2019re seeing an open letter written by 121\u00A0principals\u2014that is over 20 percent of our schools\u2014saying, \u201CDo not scrap NCEA.\u201D We have yet to see a response from the Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EFundamentally, I reiterate what I said in the beginning, from the Teaching Council of Aotearoa New Zealand report in 2023, that the teachers are feeling underpaid, undervalued, and undermined, which then leads to a real issue that we\u2019re going to be seeing with teacher retention. We\u2019re seeing, from the same report, that 58 percent of teachers are likely to leave the profession within the first five years. A survey done in 2018 showed 50 percent, or half, of all secondary school teachers would be leaving the profession in the first five years, and 20 percent of primary school teachers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EWe are seeing the ever-increasing\u2014at an alarming rate\u2014average age of teachers. Within a decade\u2019s time, we\u2019re going to have a real issue with a shortage of teachers. If we can fund $9 billion for defence and $2.9 billion for landlords, we can do that for teachers. It\u2019s not just about teachers; it\u2019s about our tamariki, it\u2019s about our parents, it\u2019s about our wh\u0101nau, and it\u2019s about our communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u201CHutia te rito o te harakeke, kei hea te k\u014Dmako e k\u014D?\u201D\u2014\u201CIf you cut out the centre of the flax, where will the bellbird sing?\u201D If we don\u2019t support our teachers, then how do we expect our students to learn?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u00220de444e1ae584f328d2b015a153652f8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220de444e1ae584f328d2b015a153652f8\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I cannot believe in 2025 I have to stand in the House today and give this speech to address the concerning actions of Green MP Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, who wrote an official letter of support for someone convicted of vandalising MP electorate offices. What a disgrace in 2025. That member used his official MP letterhead to write a character reference for Hannah Swedlund, a lawyer who systematically vandalised MP electorate offices across Auckland. This included the offices of Christopher Luxon, Judith Collins, Simon Watts, Paul Goldsmith, Melissa Lee, Dan Bidois, and a sign belonging to ACT leader David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EThis is the same MP whose party colleagues are the first to complain about intimidation of MPs and who\u2019ve actually just had one of their own resign because of intimidation. But let me be clear what this member chose to support: Hannah Swedlund orchestrated nine separate acts of vandalism across three nights, beginning in November 2023, with the targeting of the United States consulate and the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade offices in Auckland, before moving on to throw red paint, symbolising blood, on National MP electorate offices. The paint was intended to be a clear act of intimidation. The judge noted that Ms Swedlund, a practising lawyer who knew this was illegal, took steps to cover it up. This was sustained, it was planned criminal activity that cost over $5,000, and it disrupted the services to constituents. Yet Mr Men\u00E9ndez March saw fit to write a character reference for this individual.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EThe decision to support someone who vandalised parliamentary colleagues\u2019 offices is extraordinary. His choice to use official MP letterhead makes the support even more inappropriate. This isn\u2019t just about MPs; it\u2019s about the people who work in these offices. Imagine turning up to work to find your workplace splattered with paint symbolising blood. Staff and constituents would have been intimidated by this display. The disruption this would have caused for constituents is significant. Meetings would have been cancelled while offices were cleaned and secured. Vulnerable people seeking help from their local MP would have been turned away. Yet that member thinks that this behaviour is acceptable enough to support with an official character reference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EEveryone in this House talks about the abuse we receive as MPs, both online and in person, and threats that MPs experience. Parliamentary security now requires us to secure our electorate offices. We have to lock front doors, and staff must confirm who\u2019s coming in before opening them. My own electorate office is getting more security installed over the coming months, which is required by parliamentary security, including meeting rooms having two exits and more doors with deadlocked bolts, along with many other changes. While the rest of us deal with these security realities, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March is writing letters of support for people who create the very intimidation we\u2019re trying to protect against. It\u2019s shameful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EThe member doesn\u2019t have an electorate office himself, but for those of us who are electorate MPs, his support for this behaviour directly impacts our ability to serve our community. This limits our ability to interact with our constituents who need help. Imagine if a Government MP wrote support letters for someone who vandalised Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s office\u2014we\u2019d be criticised heavily. Yet he faces no scrutiny, and I\u2019m calling that out. I\u2019ve never ever seen an MP write a character reference for someone convicted of vandalising MP offices. Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2019s judgment call deserves scrutiny from this House and an explanation to the public. These actions undermine the democratic processes. Electorate offices are where constituents access their representatives. By supporting vandalism of this office, he legitimises intimidation tactics that have no place in our democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003EIf we want a democracy where all MPs can serve their constituents safely and effectively, we cannot have MPs selectively supporting those who engage in intimidation when their cause aligns with their politics. The message it sends is clear: vandalism and intimidation are acceptable as long as you agree with the cause. That is not democracy; that is mob rule.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d5da8b87673f4890a6dc6db4a6e3bb10\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d5da8b87673f4890a6dc6db4a6e3bb10\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002282507d20f71841ed8297c141643406a9\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022762f5460d0134c0bb1e832340c2bcada\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00224feb62f083124a2aaec19296db3b113e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224feb62f083124a2aaec19296db3b113e\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Deputy Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow morning for: the first reading and referral to select committee of Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill; the consideration of Government notice of motion No. 1 and the report of the Health Committee; further consideration in committee of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill; the first reading and referral to select committee of the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill and the Defence (Workforce) Amendment Bill; and the interrupted debate on the second reading of the Customs (Levies and Other Matters) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20569cbe679483a83bd8fdcccbe539e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20569cbe679483a83bd8fdcccbe539e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aaaee4cb44a24e23bca8bdcc84e9f24d\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022330db8ed364b4a4788f3f097a04c400e\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000363\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 9 September on the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u00225f0687a208374fe2b9396eb6abc2b21e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f0687a208374fe2b9396eb6abc2b21e\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill. The Business Committee has determined to organise the debate by portfolio, so there will be no sector-specific debates. All Votes are available for debate, but only specific Ministers will be available each day to speak to the indicated portfolio. The Government has indicated that the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Minister of Education, the Minister of Health, the Minister of Justice, and the Minister for M\u0101ori Development will be available today. Each debate will be led by a call from the chairperson or member of the committee that considered the Estimates most closely related to the Ministers\u2019 portfolios. In leading off the debate, the chairperson should take care not to be overly political and should ensure their call gives a fair reflection of the committee\u2019s report on the Votes relevant to the portfolio. The debate expires after 11 hours, at which point questions will be put that the Votes stand part of the Schedules and on the provisions of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EThere are now five hours and 51 minutes remaining in this debate. New Zealand National has one\u00A0hour and 48 minutes remaining. New Zealand Labour has one hour and 45 minutes remaining. The Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 44 minutes remaining. ACT New Zealand has 54\u00A0minutes remaining. New Zealand First has 38 minutes remaining. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has 23 minutes remaining.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EThe Estimates debate should be relevant to the Government\u2019s current spending plans contained in the Estimates of Appropriations. A compendium of the reports of select committees on the Votes is available on the Table. The question is that the Votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriations for 2025-26 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EMembers, we start with the Minister for Social Development and Employment. The Minister is available to speak to that portfolio from 4.16 to 5.16.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226197b11ab7994a19a5a118eb30f0513d\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Employment \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u0022f4a27e3dc7bc48429e0627368c74d941\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f4a27e3dc7bc48429e0627368c74d941\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (Chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I rise to speak on the beginning of this Estimates debate on Social Development and Employment as the chairperson of the Social Services and Community Committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003EVote Social Development is the largest Vote in Budget 2025. The Vote funds many social services including income support, student loans, emergency housing and support, and disability support. In 2025/26, the appropriations sought for Vote Social Development totalled $45.33 billion\u2014that\u2019s over $45 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003EThe appropriation of Vote Social Development comes under seven ministerial portfolios. The Ministry of Social Development administers the Vote. The Minister for Social Development and Employment is responsible for 94.6 percent of the Vote, with appropriations totalling $42.829 billion, including benefits or related expenses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003EFive other Minsters have responsibilities for appropriations of the Vote: the Minister of Revenue, the Minister of Housing, the Minister for Veterans, the Minister for Youth, and the Minister for Seniors. As part of our consideration of the Vote Social Development, our committee held hearings with the Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Louise Upston; the Minister for Youth, the Hon James Meager; the Minister for Seniors, the Hon Casey Costello; the Associate Minister of Housing, the Hon Tama Potaka; and the Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment, the Hon Penny Simmonds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003EThis is obviously an incredibly important Vote for the people of New Zealand\u2014a very significant part of Government expenditure. It is good to have a debate about these Estimates here in the Chamber today. With that, I will conclude my contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u002286b13b0e6459404fa68f9eb821c7ed47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286b13b0e6459404fa68f9eb821c7ed47\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. As I said in the Estimates hearing in June, my highest priority is supporting more New Zealanders into employment while at the same time ensuring that those who do need support are able to draw on State support when they need it. I\u2019m committed, of course, to the Government\u2019s target of reducing the number of people on the jobseeker benefit by 50,000 by 2030. Our Government is focused on supporting people on welfare into employment and therefore providing with them with the opportunities that work provides, because the faster we can help beneficiaries find sustainable employment, the better outcomes they have for themselves, their families, our communities, and, also importantly, our economy. It\u2019s part of the Government\u2019s commitment to boost growth and with a key emphasis on maximising the potential of New Zealanders and developing the talent of our people. I\u2019m conscious we\u2019ve only got a short time, so I\u2019ll provide some brief opening statements before going to questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EThrough Budget 2025, Vote Social Development received funding in key areas that align with our priorities while also reducing expenditure and delivering services more efficiently. If I look for a moment at the focus, clearly, of reducing the number of people on jobseeker support by 50,000 to 140,000 by 2030. We\u2019ve also confirmed the multi-year transformation programme, which is called MSD\u2014services for the future. It\u2019s about improving services to New Zealanders who need assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003ESome of the key investments are as follows: 490 front-line staff in employment programmes to help get more people into work, adding a parental assistance test to determine eligibility for jobseeker support and emergency benefit for 18- and 19-year-olds, updating automated decision-making using the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s (MSD\u2019s) processes, improving both the accuracy and integrity of MSD payments, and also changes to the accommodation supplement. We\u2019ve improved redress for survivors of abuse in State care, including increased payments. Other key areas include the continuation of supporting national and regional food distribution infrastructure and community food provision, and we\u2019ve continued the important funding for Kickstart Breakfast programmes and KidsCan jackets for two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EI want to talk briefly about the Employment Investment Strategy, which will run through to 2028. The strategy guides decision making about which clients to allocate to employment support and which programmes to invest in based on people\u2019s employment support needs, evidence of what works, and their distance from the labour market as well as value for money. It supports MSD to be more targeted and efficient with the investment to help achieve our priorities for employment. This strategy will support MSD\u2019s front line to shift investment through allocation of clients to case management, and employment interventions under the improved employment and social outcomes support multi-category appropriation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EAs expected in the current economic climate, the overall number of people receiving a benefit has increased ahead of a forecast decrease from December this year. However, our focus on employment and proactive staff engagement is helping more people to move into work. We\u2019ve seen more than 80,700 people moved off welfare and into work in the last financial year despite these challenging times. There is, of course, more work to do, and we\u2019ll continue to help people overcome the challenges to prepare for and find a job. Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019m happy to take questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7120f4d936a416a9416281a0cdda62d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7120f4d936a416a9416281a0cdda62d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. One of the major problems we\u2019ve got in the country at the moment, and have had for some years, is a problem around M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori unemployment. When we were in Government it was running at nearly three times what the average rate was, and we were able to bring that down. This Government has still got it at just over double what the general rate is, and it\u2019s very concerning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI would like to know from the Minister: what\u2019s the plan in terms of M\u0101ori unemployment? Is there going to be a focus on some of the targeted programmes that the previous Government brought to the table\u2014obviously, Mana in Mahi was one of those major programmes. M\u0101ori Trade Training was a major investment from the previous Government. Has she considered reinvesting into and boosting M\u0101ori Trade Training, which delivered 63 M\u0101ori-led projects and supported over 4,000 M\u0101ori across Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just opening up with those questions in terms of what the Government\u2019s overall plan is\u2014because I never heard that in the Minister\u2019s introductory remarks\u2014in terms of M\u0101ori unemployment and boosting M\u0101ori in employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00227ce45bb1671749d491af04ea3b512da7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ce45bb1671749d491af04ea3b512da7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for his question, and, as we\u2019ve discussed in this House before, unfortunately, when we have a labour market the way it is, M\u0101ori are disproportionately affected. What I would say is that what we\u2019re seeing in the numbers between those aged 18 and 24 coming on to jobseeker benefit is that, actually, the number of M\u0101ori coming on is less than we might have expected in terms of that proportionality, so that is positive. The investment strategy, with investment in initiatives like Mana in Mahi and He Poutama Rangatahi, is absolutely focused on young M\u0101ori and Pasifika. I\u2019ll also add that Budget 2025 will mean that every young person under the age of 25 on the jobseeker benefit will be in case management.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7a2227e2d0f4fc6a94013890e4b5427\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7a2227e2d0f4fc6a94013890e4b5427\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. First of all, I just wanted to comment on the Minister\u2019s initial remarks. I find it incredibly rich that she both talks about her focus of getting people into employment while yet her own Government is cutting thousands and thousands of jobs\u2014intentionally so, despite not needing to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EMy question\u2019s related to the advice that Treasury gave her in relation to the tightening of the eligibility for jobseeker supports who are between the ages of 18 and 19. At the time that the Budget initiatives were going through, Treasury actually said that this should be deferred to next year\u2019s Budget because the savings would be highly uncertain as there\u2019s little data on the number of young people who may be affected, and that this change would also have several perverse incentives as it\u2019s currently designed. What are these perverse incentives that Treasury warned her about, and does she agree with Treasury that the savings coming from this initiative would be highly uncertain?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThis is no small feat that we\u2019re talking about. This is about restricting access to some of our youngest and most affected, at the moment, by unemployment, alongside M\u0101ori and Pasifika; we\u2019re talking about young people here who are struggling to get access to entry-level jobs. If the Government is going to be making it harder at a time of high youth unemployment to access these benefits, I would like some answers in relation to the advice that Treasury gave her in relation to the savings but also around the several perverse incentives that are created by this policy\u2014can she name them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022f767758f176e4628917ec49928f1ef3b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f767758f176e4628917ec49928f1ef3b\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m pleased the member raised the 18- and 19-year-old policy, because it gives us the opportunity to talk about the intention behind it. The intention, which I\u2019m assuming members opposite would also expect, is that every 18- and 19-year-old in New Zealand is in further education, further training, or in a job, and that going on welfare isn\u2019t the first option to them. That\u2019s the intention of it. Treasury, in many of the Budget savings, will say that the level of savings is uncertain. That is no different from this proposal. What I will say is the member will need to wait only a little bit longer to hear the final policy settings of the 18- and 19-year-old policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffa7f1dc85ea457f93d7c5a9cac19764\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffa7f1dc85ea457f93d7c5a9cac19764\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Now, moving on to one of the savings that will start coming in in this Budget\u2014despite the announcements being made last year, the legislation was introduced during the Budget process. It is in relation to the tightening of access to the accommodation supplement for people who may be receiving the income-related subsidies who may have boarders, for example, or who may be in private rentals. Does she agree with the advice that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) gave her that this policy will leave people worse off, on average, by $100 each week, and does she also agree with the advice that shows that the disabled, M\u0101ori, the young, and the old will be disproportionately impacted by this policy? What message does she have to old people, young people, disabled people, and M\u0101ori, who, as MSD has noted, will be disproportionately left worse off as a result of these changes? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00220c8031e7f33e4a76adf0617443a7f1cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c8031e7f33e4a76adf0617443a7f1cf\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve said previously when we\u2019ve debated this legislation\u2014which is a Budget 2024 measure\u2014the changes to the boarder contribution are about making the system fair, transparent, and equivalent. If somebody is receiving income from a boarder, that will be counted in terms of the housing assistance that they are eligible for. It is a simple step that is about making the system fairer. I accept that in this policy there will be some people who were receiving income from one and two boarders, and now their housing supplement will be affected. We appreciate that and we accept that, but what we need to do is ensure we have a system that is fair and has integrity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7e181311d594c0081486586be6ba408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7e181311d594c0081486586be6ba408\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much. When the Minister for Social Development and Employment talks about fairness, does she think that it is fair that some of these people may be left in even deeper poverty and may be requiring additional assistance from Work and Income, and, if so, does she think this undermines the supposed savings that she\u2019s trying to make through this initiative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u00223ea68d99ad7c4e2589067a4391667180\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ea68d99ad7c4e2589067a4391667180\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Following on from what the Minister has just said, does the Minister accept that the impact of our youth unemployment is much more extreme, and can she give the latest numbers for 18- to 20-year-olds unemployed and 20- to 25-year-olds unemployed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003ECan I also know from the Minister: is she concerned that such high youth unemployment will have long-term consequences on the mental health of those people who are unemployed at a time when they are forming their careers, their future careers? This is a critical time in their lives, and has she considered the impact on that, both economically and in terms of mental health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to know from the Minister\u2014she came into Government at a time when Labour had the highest employment rates. That was something that we could be extremely proud of. How many more unemployed people are now requiring jobseeker benefits today than when she took over in November 2023, and what does that cost the country? There have been promises made about reducing the number, but my understanding is we are 26,000 more on the lists than we were. That seems to me to be an extremely worrying statistic, but it also seems to be one that would come with enormous cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EDoes she accept that those people that are on the jobseeker benefit today are there because they are legitimately unemployed due to the downturn in our economy engineered by this Government? If that is the case, if she accepts that they are legitimately unemployed\u2014and I see the Minister\u2019s expression and I accept that she might not accept the second part of what I said, but she can actually answer the first part, which is: does she think that those people that are unemployed now are there because of their own fault, or is it through no fault of their own, given that she accepts there\u2019s been a downturn, in which case, why has she moved into a mode of penalising those people?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EWhat I want to know, for those people today who face really high costs of things like butter and the cost of registering a car and the cost of energy: what are they actually receiving from this Government if they\u2019re on the jobseeker benefit? I don\u2019t think a lot of New Zealanders know just what that looks like for the average person. What do they get, and has it been inflation-adjusted for those very things that I said\u2014energy, for the cost of food, and for the cost of things like car registration? Have they had more as those costs have gone on\u2014is that part of the equation? Actually, has there been an inquiry made as to whether they can actually live on what they\u2019re on? Can they make ends meet? I\u2019ve got more questions for the Minister, but I\u2019d thank her for an answer for these first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u002254073301ebb642ab9e3cb5b5f96c3e30\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002254073301ebb642ab9e3cb5b5f96c3e30\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to go into an economics class about how the economic recession got created. I think most people know that, and it\u2019s been debated in this Chamber. I\u2019m more than happy to answer the question, but I\u2019m also going to refute outrageous statements that were made by the member prior.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EAs of the end of June, there were 48,200 people on the jobseeker benefit between the ages of 18\u00A0and 24, which, of course, is an increase from the previous year. What we saw under the last six years was an increase in the number of years that that age bracket would be on benefit throughout their lifetime\u201418 years\u2014which we are totally unwilling to accept. That\u2019s why, as I said, Budget\u00A02025 and the Employment Investment Strategy means that every one of those young people will be in case management. That is the most successful programme. That\u2019s why we are investing in it\u2014to improve their opportunities of being in employment. While it is challenging at the moment, we want to ensure young people are using this time to prepare and get ready as the economy grows again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f84c9ddad48b4d04bd1ef5d312810711\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f84c9ddad48b4d04bd1ef5d312810711\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I have a series of questions, all in and around the youth figures. Recent statistics out yesterday from Stats NZ show there\u2019s 19,000-plus fewer jobs filled by 15- to 24-year-olds. What I\u2019d like to know from the Minister is what plan does she have or what solution is she offering for those young people who might go through a training course or receive some extra support but there\u2019s no job to go to? In that space, what solutions does she offer, particularly those that are in that 18- to 19-year-old bracket, which aren\u2019t impacted yet but soon will be by no longer being able to receive the jobseeker benefit? What specific solutions are in place for young people who have gone through training but have no place for work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022912d3c7e9d3a4db6b4e978cb9a11645f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022912d3c7e9d3a4db6b4e978cb9a11645f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As I said, that age bracket is a concern, because we know their lifetime years on benefit have been increasing, and we want to pull that back. We want 18- and 19-year-olds to be in further education, training, or in employment, and we know that as the economy grows, it creates more jobs\u2014the level of investment in infrastructure projects, for example: 240,000 new jobs expected. These next few months are challenging. The 18- and 19-year-old policy doesn\u2019t come in until 1 July 2027. That\u2019s what we announced in the Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EI just would remind the committee\u2014and it\u2019s what most people will expect\u2014that 18- and 19yearolds will be the responsibility of their family first, as opposed to just this idea that the best life is to go straight on welfare. We\u2019d be encouraging them to go into further education or further training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EI neglected to answer the question of the previous member about increases to welfare payments because of inflation. They are annually adjusted with the Consumers Price Index.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u00220824edcdb853412cbde998a8d7fa64aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220824edcdb853412cbde998a8d7fa64aa\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll reframe it again for the Minister, because I listened very carefully and I did not hear the answer to my question, which was: if there is a young person in New Zealand that has gone through training and education but does not have an offer of employment that they\u2019re able to take up, what is the Government\u2019s solution to situations such as that? Are they going to take up some more training? Are there incentives by the Government? Is there any action or plan in place for young people who have gone through training but have not managed to secure a job like the 19,000 over the past 12 months?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u002257207db0d0234f85b54d236ded4eb969\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257207db0d0234f85b54d236ded4eb969\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I did answer that. I answered that very clearly: further education or training, infrastructure investments, bringing 240,000 additional jobs, and parental responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u00220ad7c2905a744ca68b1ffdcc9c54d4d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ad7c2905a744ca68b1ffdcc9c54d4d6\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Thank you, Minister. I will be sticking with the tightening eligibility 18-19 piece, if I could. Now that Budget 2025 forecasts over $325 million in savings by restricting benefit access to 18- and 19yearolds\u2014I\u2019ve got a couple of supplementaries after this\u2014how will the Government justify this cut when it disproportionately affects rangatahi M\u0101ori, over 4,500 of whom currently receive support? Can the Minister provide an update on the development of the parental assistance test and whether M\u0101ori advisers or youth advocates or other M\u0101ori\u2014smart people, like me\u2014have been involved in its design to ensure cultural appropriateness? Will the Minister confirm whether young people will be denied support if their parents refuse to complete the parental test, and how does this protect the rights and wellbeing of vulnerable rangatahi?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EThe final question, if I may, Mr Chair, is: what safeguards are in place for rangatahi escaping unsafe or unsupported home environments where parental means cannot or should not be tested? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00221998f66cc0664a3187e876b7541a6662\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221998f66cc0664a3187e876b7541a6662\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As I said in answer to one of the previous members\u2019 questions, more detail will be available on that shortly. Some of those issues are exactly what is being considered in the detailed policy assessment. Let me just say again that this policy is about ensuring 18- and 19-year-olds are in further education, training, study, or employment. What we do know\u2014I know that members opposite would be deeply concerned when we quote these figures\u2014is that for a young person to go on to a benefit under the age of 25, they spend 18 future years of their life on welfare. None of us want that, so we are looking at new interventions to reinforce an expectation that, actually, most people in this Chamber would have been raised with\u2014that when you come out of your secondary schooling education, further education, or further training, you get a job. That\u2019s the expectation our side of the Chamber wants to set. We are aspirational for young people; we\u2019re aspirational for young M\u0101ori, and we want them to have a life of opportunity and choice, not one trapped on welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022361315288e404781ab5835e0f08c23c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022361315288e404781ab5835e0f08c23c2\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just wanted to follow the member Mariameno Kapa-Kingi\u2019s line of questioning over there, because I think, with respect, that the Minister has been a bit vague in terms of her responses with regard to M\u0101ori employment and M\u0101ori unemployment, and I do want to know this. We\u2019re still trying to get our heads around why, when unemployment was on the rise and was dramatically rising for youth and M\u0101ori, she cut M\u0101ori trade training at Budget 2025, particularly given that M\u0101ori trade training, as we know, has had a significant impact in terms of young people right around the country. It confuses me that something so successful was cut by this Government. That was something that was embedded in in a couple of generations, actually, and I was able to bring that back when I was a Minister. Something that was so successful was cut by this Government, and we\u2019ve never really had any answers on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI also want to ask the Minister whether she is able to break down for us M\u0101ori, Pasifika, the over-65s, youth, people in their own homes\u2014are we able to get some details in terms of those who are needing the accommodation supplement? We seem to be lacking in the detail which would really help in terms of any overall plan from this Government. In terms of M\u0101ori, again, can I ask the Minister: does she have any details in terms of how many M\u0101ori are on a main benefit since she took over in this position? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00222d4ad012f43e416ebf9f8454e50efa68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d4ad012f43e416ebf9f8454e50efa68\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I would ask that member to ask his question again about the accommodation supplement, but let me answer the others first. As at the end of June, there were 406,100 people on main benefit. Of that, 148,539 were M\u0101ori. In terms of the increases over the last year, the total percentage was 6.6 percent, and for M\u0101ori, it was 5.7 percent. The increases are lower, and that\u2019s why I made that comment before about the under18 to 24-year-olds. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EIn terms of the M\u0101ori trade training, we made the decision to end that. It was a programme that was brought forward in terms of a response to COVID. As we have done in many instances, we have ended funding for things that were COVID-related, and we clearly never saw the levels of unemployment\u2014thank goodness\u2014that were forecast at the time. What we have done is invest in the most intensive programme that is available and that we know has the greatest success, and that is case management. As I\u2019ve said, every 18- to 24-year-old will be in case management. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u002259efaa29cf634092821335a6f19d0617\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259efaa29cf634092821335a6f19d0617\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Well, that\u2019s very sad to hear that type of response in terms of M\u0101ori trade training. As I said, it was a programme that was acclaimed by everyone no matter what their political affiliations were. I just want to come back to the question that the Minister asked\u2014she asked me to reframe that question. The question is: how many more people have needed the accommodation supplement since she took over? Can she break that down for us: M\u0101ori, Pasifika, over 65, and youth\u2014are there any numbers in regards to that? While we\u2019re talking about Pasifika, does she have any numbers in terms of Pasifika on jobseeker support since she took over? It would be good to get a response on that. But back to what I was saying on M\u0101ori trade training: I think that\u2019s one of the biggest mistakes that this Government has made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224680dcac294f4cd5bdd3a5a7ed5a3bb9\u0022 data-id=\u002284c8d25ae2ff4efaa017ce9c347ec725\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224680dcac294f4cd5bdd3a5a7ed5a3bb9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284c8d25ae2ff4efaa017ce9c347ec725\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Associate Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In response to the questions by the Hon Willie Jackson regarding M\u0101ori trades training places, he will be pleased to know that in the tertiary education space, we have increased the number of youth guarantee places by 175 places per year, where that wraparound support and additional care of the students is absolutely imperative to the success of that training. So those 175 additional youth guarantee places are certainly most useful in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u002211993c0186554e7bbf942299b3ec61da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211993c0186554e7bbf942299b3ec61da\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E In terms of the 18- to 24-year-olds, the option is either case management or contracted services if they\u2019ve got work obligations, which could be part-time or full time. I\u2019m happy to answer the question around accommodation supplement. I don\u2019t have that data on me. If you wouldn\u2019t mind, please, putting that down in writing, and we could get an answer to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022045d633fac7f458cb9ffa844661bebc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022045d633fac7f458cb9ffa844661bebc2\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E At a time of high inflation, more people sleeping rough, and front-line organisations talking about the struggle of the high cost of living, what we have seen since this Budget is a record number of people\u2014at least the only other highest number we\u2019ve seen is in September 2024\u2014being declined for assistance. In fact, in the latest quarter, June 2025, under her watch and after this Budget, we\u2019ve seen the highest proportion of people on the benefit being declined for assistance for something like an advance. An advance is something that can help you sustain your rental, pay your bills, have enough clothing so that your children do not get sick. How does the Minister justify seeing, under her watch, the highest proportion of people and applications being declined for assistance that is lifesaving for many?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EFollowing up on that, does the Minister have any information on who is most disproportionately impacted by this record proportion of people being declined for assistance such as advances, and has she made any directives, received any feedback, or passed on any feedback to the Ministry of Social Development on this issue? This is real, because people on the ground are telling us that they\u2019re facing more declines for basic things that they need, and the data is clear that a greater proportion of applications are getting declined under her watch. What is the reason for that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022ae6ad7dc3acf4732a725ebde07d3e777\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ae6ad7dc3acf4732a725ebde07d3e777\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Let me just go back and answer the question around Pasifika: the number of 18- to 24-year-olds on the main benefit is 7,047. That was just to answer the Hon Willie Jackson\u2019s question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EIn terms of advance payments, I have not made any directives to the Ministry of Social Development around advance payments. We are experiencing challenging economic times, and some of the measures that we have done in Budget 2025, for example, are to ensure that people aren\u2019t getting overpaid so that that lends to a debt. One of the challenges with advance payments is it then creates further financial difficulties further down the line. I want to assure the member I have issued no directive around advance payments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u002281cf4d3dc04f4e21a83a083cfb45fb09\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281cf4d3dc04f4e21a83a083cfb45fb09\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to ask the Minister a little bit more about what she said concerning youth. She talked about this group of people who spend 18\u00A0years on the benefit. What I wondered is if she would accept that that was not apples with apples, because what you had when that was the number was the entrenched unemployed group, versus now, when the reason you have such high youth unemployment is because there are no jobs out there and these are the last people that will be employed because they have no job experience. Does she accept that this class of people is very different in that way and this is the opportunity for them to get work if work is available? The answer isn\u2019t just training; it\u2019s actually the availability of work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EAlso, I would like an answer to my question about what it is actually costing the country to have the giant blowout of people on jobseeker benefit. I think that\u2019s a fair question. I\u2019d also like an answer to the question about how much people get on jobseeker, because I do not think that the public understand how little it is, and whether people can live off that amount that is there. I appreciate the answer about the adjustments that are made on the basis of the Consumers Price Index, but my question wasn\u2019t that. It was: was it actually something that was adjusted in terms of the things I mentioned? Car registration was one, the cost of food was another, and I think I had a third thing\u2014the cost of energy, which is, of course, huge. I think those are all questions that the New Zealand public would really like the answer to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EI also want to know from the Minister\u2014we talked about the Government engineering this. I mention engineering this unemployment, because they wanted to kickstart the economy, as they saw, by bringing wages down. The Government changed the Reserve Bank mandate to exclude any concern for unemployment in its decision. I understood the logic of that to be that it would create lower wages in that situation, because lower wages were good for kickstarting the economy. Why does the Government punish the very New Zealanders who are victims of a faulty strategy? They become unemployed by their very own design\u2014they want them to be unemployed so there are more people in the workforce and the wages go down\u2014and yet they\u2019re punishing them by sanctions and suggesting that 18-year-olds are somehow, in some habitual way, staying on the benefit for 18 years. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022780188abc61040fe930a6a7865ac6bc5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022780188abc61040fe930a6a7865ac6bc5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, I need to correct the figure that I gave the Hon Willie Jackson: it was not main benefit; it was jobseeker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EJust going to the lifetime number of future years on benefit, because I think the House will be interested to know that in June 2017, for someone under the age of 25 who was on jobseeker support, their future years was 12.2 years\u2014it is now 18.2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ffe5cd528ee41028c9d16c65e3aedf0\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Not continuous\u2014they\u2019re not continuous years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239377291ecb84adbae62756ed3e02865\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not continuous, it\u2019s someone who goes on and off, but hopefully your maths will tell you that 12.2 is a lot less than 18.2, which just happens to line up with the six years that Labour was in office.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EWe are deeply concerned about young people being on the jobseeker benefit, which is why we are fully unwilling to accept that 18 years is as good as it gets. That\u2019s why we are focused on very intensive programmes like case management to support them to have higher expectations for 18- and 19-year-olds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003ETo the member Helen White: Consumers Price Index (CPI) calculations are based on an average of household costs across a range of baskets\u2014I\u2019m not going to spend the time in this committee listing them. That is why we index to CPI the jobseeker benefit. For someone over the age of 25, the flat benefit is $361.32.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u002271d2743da1854bff8cce26c5918e1ae6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d2743da1854bff8cce26c5918e1ae6\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I\u2019d just like to pick up from my questions before. I was asking the Minister specifically around the 19,000 fewer jobs for those young people and what the Government\u2019s solution was to finding a place for them if there was no job there. The Minister\u2019s answer was that her Government was going to create 240,000 new jobs. Well, I would just like to understand, from the Minister, how did she get that figure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EAs I understand from previous comments that the Prime Minister has made, that\u2019s over 4 years. Can she just confirm that the 240,000 new jobs her Government will deliver\u2014how was that specific number arrived at? If she\u2019s able to, what specific initiatives will produce those 240,000 jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022290f77f0d85144ec8b0b76f4cff33549\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022290f77f0d85144ec8b0b76f4cff33549\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not going to list the infrastructure projects that have been already quoted in this House around the creation of new jobs. One thing that\u2019s very different about the Government we have today as opposed to the one that was outgoing in 2023 is we\u2019re clear that it\u2019s not the Government creating the jobs. We create the conditions for the jobs to be created as opposed to the Government creating them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c71d9461bdd3443ca8ed64e8c7e3cec5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c71d9461bdd3443ca8ed64e8c7e3cec5\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Is it correct that it is not the case that the reason why there\u2019s been a greater proportion of declines for advances is that people have be put in a worseoff financial situation, which she alluded to in her previous answer to me, and that it could instead be because of a changing culture at Work and Income due to increased anti-beneficiary rhetoric? I say this because the stats speak for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been an uptick of proportions of declines for things like advances. Her own answer to my questions in writing shows that it is not because people would be put in a worse-off situation but for a range of other reasons. Does she think it is fair for a greater proportion of people to be declined assistance at a time of high cost of living pressures and front-line organisations talking about increasing homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u00225ab4ceabdc454c26bd0310bb5bf26aeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ab4ceabdc454c26bd0310bb5bf26aeb\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to come into the sanctions area now. In terms of the culture, what communities are saying to us is that the culture, sadly, has changed tremendously given where we were a couple of years ago. We\u2019ve always had a sanction system, but obviously imposing sanctions is difficult if children and wh\u0101nau are involved. I want to ask the Minister, in terms of the sanctions area, what reports has she had of the checks and balances to ensure that some of our tamariki have not been hurt by these sanctions? Is she following through with a lot of the reports that we\u2019re getting from wh\u0101nau? How much have sanctions increased since she changed the sanctions regime? It\u2019s a very punitive strategy that this Government has gone down. How many of those families are ones with children who have been punished by the sanctions strategy? Has an increase in sanctions correlated with a reduction in job seekers, which surely has to be the aim of any Government? This is an area of vital importance to our communities who have suffered through this terrible sanctions strategy that this Government is rolling out. Where are we right now? I ask the Minister if she could respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc1eb4b119044da58d1254b14f206a9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc1eb4b119044da58d1254b14f206a9a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m proud of the fact that we have a much more active welfare system than when we took office. That is for a range of reasons. One of the reasons is the traffic light system, and 98 percent of those receiving benefit are at green, which means they know their obligations and they\u2019re fulfilling them. I think that\u2019s something we should all be really pleased about\u20140.6 percent at orange, and 1.1 percent or 1.2 percent at red. The number of people who are actually under a sanction is incredibly small, which I think is great news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EThe other great news, of course, is that we introduced non-financial sanctions for the very reason that there was a concern for a blunt financial sanction where there are children in the household. There will be a review after 12 months, and the next two non-financial sanctions don\u2019t come in until 1\u00A0October. That was very deliberate and about giving Ministry of Social Development case managers more options to have a sanction that was more suitable and appropriate to that family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022225b0efec20545f4b56f14c73dc92571\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022225b0efec20545f4b56f14c73dc92571\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. Just going back to those 240,000 new jobs, I am aware that the Minister has said that\u2019s going to come from a range of infrastructure projects and she doesn\u2019t want to list them out, but I would still like to know how she arrived at the figure of 240,000 additional jobs. I would also like to know: is she using job growth based on population growth? Now, she may want to take some advice from officials, but the Government must have undertaken some form of calculation to arrive at the figure of 240,000. I\u2019m assuming they didn\u2019t just make that up. If so, can she please explain: is she using job growth based on population growth to produce that figure of 240,000 more jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6ff2bca19964bcd9684712f13c199ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6ff2bca19964bcd9684712f13c199ee\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, is it factually correct that disabled people will be disproportionately pushed into deeper hardship as a result of the changes that she has made when it comes to eligibility for accommodation supplements for people who have boarders? If it is correct that disabled people will be disproportionately put in hardship from this change\u2014I don\u2019t think she\u2019s listening to the question, but if it is correct that disabled people will be disproportionately affected by this, what is her message to disabled people affected by this policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u00221e9f83c3ebe140baa6573400376cc19e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221e9f83c3ebe140baa6573400376cc19e\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Does the Minister accept that there\u2019s a real possibility that the increase in sanctions may have led to an increase in previous beneficiaries not having enough food and seeking help from food banks, and this also may have led to an increase in beneficiaries becoming homeless? If so, what work has happened to track this correlation, and what advice has she been asked for or has she received about those issues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022404d0f6fb7b34e5785fbb02ec1c5e593\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022404d0f6fb7b34e5785fbb02ec1c5e593\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Just in the interest of the Minister addressing and answering my question, is it correct that disabled people are going to be disproportionately impacted due to the changes she has made to the eligibility\u2014it\u2019s actually really hard to speak to the Minister when she\u2019s talking to someone else. Is it correct that disabled people will be disproportionately impacted by the changes she has made to the eligibility of the accommodation supplement for people who have boarders, and that disabled people will be pushed deeper into poverty as a result of these changes compared to other groups? If so, what is her message to disabled people affected by these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6f668a7d17246f5ac59d9e6a600278d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6f668a7d17246f5ac59d9e6a600278d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m not sure if the Minister for Social Development and Employment has answered my question, which is: has an increase in sanctions correlated with a reduction in job seekers? Further to that, many of our organisations, particularly community organisations, have talked to us about a dramatic increase in homelessness and the use of food banks. Does the Minister accept that there\u2019s a real possibility that the increase in sanctions may have led to an increase in previous beneficiaries becoming homeless? It seems to be obvious as we go out there and see the results community organisations are responding to us about. Can I also ask the Minister: in terms of some of those community organisations, is she working closely with those organisations right now? Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022ba3c410e7cb646148ff135492d8f2844\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ba3c410e7cb646148ff135492d8f2844\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s been a number of questions around sanctions, so I would repeat what I said about a very small number being under red, which is when a sanction applies. It is really simple for someone to come off a sanction, and that\u2019s for them to re-comply with their obligations. Just because somebody is at red, it doesn\u2019t mean it\u2019s a permanent state of things\u2014they have options in terms of complying with their obligations. I will say again in this Chamber\u2014because it tends to be misrepresented on frequent occasion\u2014no one is sanctioned for not getting a job; they are sanctioned because they are not fulfilling their work obligations, which are things like going to an interview, having a CV, fulfilling their appointments with the Ministry of Social Development, and taking the necessary steps to look for, prepare for, and find a job. The sanction isn\u2019t if they can\u2019t find a job, and I said before that the new traffic light regime will be reviewed after 12 months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u0022534231ce9e1a48708b70426d1dea3042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022534231ce9e1a48708b70426d1dea3042\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I still have not received an answer to the question about what the cost is of the blowout of 26,000 more New Zealanders not being in employment under the watch of this Government. I would really like that, and I\u2019d like the Minister for Social Development and Employment to tell me whether she considers it a personal failure that those people are currently unemployed. I want to know from the Minister whether those people are ones she considers to just have an attitude problem or, in fact, they have been the result and fallout of an economic downturn, in which case what I would expect is that we would step up as a Government and support them into work in a way that actually was manageable for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EI want to know an answer to a question I asked right at the beginning, which is: does she think that people, our families, our working families, often, who get accommodation supplement, and our unemployed families where one or two of the breadwinners have lost their jobs since the Government took hold of this economy and has been responsible for the way it has been run for quite some time now\u2014are they actually able to pay the bills? Has she made an inquiry? I\u2019ve asked about specific payments, not Consumers Price Index, which we know is a flawed system and it doesn\u2019t quite manage to do that. Has she looked to make sure that those families can pay their bills?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003EOne of the things that the Minister has done is she has decided to review people on accommodation supplements and take away the bare amount that they were getting from boarders. That was $100 a week from those very people who were trying to make ends meet. I would like to know whether she\u2019s looked at that since and thought, \u201CWell, the cost of butter is now about $8.\u201D\u2014if you\u2019re very lucky, it\u2019s $8\u2014\u201CMaybe I need to look at this in terms of whether they can actually make ends meet.\u201D I\u2019d like an answer, sincerely, to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022b66e903d982840f9838b3d9bd15758c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b66e903d982840f9838b3d9bd15758c2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I was hoping I wouldn\u2019t need to do this in the Chamber because it\u2019s been said multiple times before, but let\u2019s just\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ea257b9e8024570bf6099eac55c1bf0\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: I still haven\u2019t heard it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221003c3ba319b48b1a1ff6dfc12697e2c\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: OK, good. Excellent. Here\u2019s what happens. High levels of spending, excessive levels of spending, wasteful spending, leads to high interest rates, high inflation, and higher unemployment. Unfortunately, when we came in, we came into a period where inflation was 7.2\u00A0percent. We\u2019ve managed to get it down to 2.5 percent, which is remarkable in this short period of time. If the member\u2019s worried about the price of butter, she should worry about inflation and be celebrating the fact that it\u2019s down from 7.2 percent to 2.5 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EIn terms of the unemployment rate, the unemployment rate forecast by Treasury for the previous Government\u2014I think it was June 2022\u2014was expected to be at 5.2 percent at this time. Guess what it is? It\u2019s 5.2 percent. We are not further away from what the unemployment rate was expected to be when that member\u2019s party were in Government. But, unfortunately, anyone on this side of the House would prefer not to be dealing with the circumstances we\u2019re dealing with. We have got inflation under control, but for, I think, something like 44 percent of mortgage holders, they are yet to refix their mortgage. They are not seeing those falling interest rates in their bank account yet\u2014that is still to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003EWe know that there is a lag period between inflation coming down, interest rates coming down, the economy turning, and recovery beginning. Unfortunately, the unemployment rate is always the last to follow. The member asked specifically: what is the taxpayer bill for those on the jobseeker benefit for 2025-2026? It\u2019s $4.6 billion. But, actually, I\u2019m less worried about the fiscal cost; I\u2019m worried about the human cost. That is why our side has set an ambitious target to reduce the number of people on the jobseeker benefit by 50,000 by 2030. Yes, we could have said, \u201CLet\u2019s have a really pathetic target because we have inherited an economic recession, we\u2019ve inherited challenging times.\u201D, and given up and gone home. No, because for every single one of those people that come off welfare and into work, we know what a difference it makes for them and their families. I\u2019m celebrating 80,700 people in the last year coming off welfare and into work, despite the trainwreck of economic conditions that we have inherited. It\u2019s $4.8 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022781885d0902b4973be639e0509d69a08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022781885d0902b4973be639e0509d69a08\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I will ask, once again, is it correct that disabled people are disproportionately affected by the changes she has introduced that will strip away income for people who have boarders; if so, what is her message to disabled people living in poverty, who will be disproportionately affected by this change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022483af031f2c0401a996b9d0bf7d36c93\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022483af031f2c0401a996b9d0bf7d36c93\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E The changes that we have made around the accommodation supplement, going back to Budget 2024, were to make a fairer, more equitable system. If you are a disabled person who has boarders, yes, it will affect you. If you are a disabled person who is a taxpayer, you want a fairer, more equitable system, and also if you are a disabled person who sees benefit of the accommodation supplementary boundaries and rates changes, you\u2019ll be celebrating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022c35782df0f8248899c9c1599ba2d4fc7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c35782df0f8248899c9c1599ba2d4fc7\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I think just because the Government\u2019s come in under forecast doesn\u2019t mean at all that the Government has been successful in terms of their employment strategy. In fact, it\u2019s been a disaster for this Government. We\u2019re seeing record numbers go to Australia, and the question, again, is where is the employment strategy in terms of this Government? We don\u2019t see one. All we see and hear is that you have come in under what was forecast with the previous Labour Government. That is not an employment strategy; it is just a continual waffle about the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI ask the question: is the closing of major work sites such as Kinleith and now Eves Valley sawmill indicative of the Government doing enough to tackle unemployment? What is the strategy? Where is the investment, and has the Ministry of Social Development accounted for a potential increase in demand for its work programmes in areas where major work sites are expected to close? Is there something that we can expect from the Minister other than her continually saying we have come under the forecast that was forecast for the previous Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00221232780bce9f4dbbb6e7f7c5054f53ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221232780bce9f4dbbb6e7f7c5054f53ed\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E We have published an Employment Investment Strategy, which the member is asking about\u2014an employment strategy for 2025 through to 2028. That is very much focused on a range of things\u2014a priority around 18- to 24-year-olds\u2014so that we can move that curve back from the 18.2 years average future time on benefit that we have inherited, back to the 12.2 years, for example, which is where it was in 2017. Part of the investment strategy is the 490 case managers, because we know that one-on-one case management is the most effective intervention we have had. That is through data and evidence that tells us which programmes are more successful. We are investing in what works the best. Other initiatives like Mana in Mahi, He Poutama Rangatahi, Mayors Taskforce for Jobs, and Ng\u0101 Puna P\u016Bkenga are all about focusing on how we ensure we are targeting those programmes to the people they will have the greatest impact on. I would invite the member to read that employment investment strategy, and, if he has questions on it, to put them down in writing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022daa440564b094580b5eae7597dc5da49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daa440564b094580b5eae7597dc5da49\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019m going to have a third go at asking the Minister. She\u2019s promised that her Government will create 240,000 new jobs. Could she please confirm how that number was calculated? If so, is she using job growth based on population growth to arrive at the number of 240,000 new jobs that she has promised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u002277eeab895b4a4a50a88017ab4d1fa066\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277eeab895b4a4a50a88017ab4d1fa066\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Well, from Budget 2025, it was Treasury\u2019s forecast at that time that there would be job growth of 2.7 percent, 240,000 jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u00229c9e2bfc1622467ba08000761c0d73c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c9e2bfc1622467ba08000761c0d73c7\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Can she confirm that that calculation that she\u2019s referred to by Treasury is actually job growth based on population growth, not any specific action that her Government has taken?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd4e12f7d6224d8bba2926ba9b425b24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd4e12f7d6224d8bba2926ba9b425b24\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I would invite that member to ask Treasury. It\u2019s Treasury\u2019s forecast.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u00221d3602a1de8344ae9ac540e7bee4a478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d3602a1de8344ae9ac540e7bee4a478\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Again, is the Minister for Social Development and Employment telling me that she does not know herself? Is the Minister responsible for how her Government is going to deliver 240,000 more jobs, and does she not know how that figure was calculated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022c98357fedc404283b407c635264237fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c98357fedc404283b407c635264237fa\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ll correct the member, because I\u2019ve already said it in this House. The Government is very different from the previous one in terms of who they believe creates the jobs: businesses create jobs. If I think about the announcement today, with Qantas and Jetstar adding 660,000 additional seats across the Tasman and within New Zealand\u2014that creates jobs. The Government is creating the conditions where businesses will grow and create more jobs. In terms of additional jobs that have been mentioned in this House\u2014the member referred to the Prime Minister; I\u2019d also refer to the Minister of Finance and the Minister for Infrastructure. The significant projects that kick off in the next six months will create more jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002215f2f80469694fc3ab614ecb525bfe4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215f2f80469694fc3ab614ecb525bfe4d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Last question in this section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u00222d930ff6f61b48f493889ab60a0be25a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d930ff6f61b48f493889ab60a0be25a\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. It is really a question that I have asked and I have not had an answer for. I think it\u2019s a central one. Twenty-six thousand more people are unemployed than there were under our Government. While the Minister for Social Development and Employment gave me figures for what it cost the country this year, she did not give me the answer to the question, which is: what is the difference in cost between what it cost under a Labour Government, when we had less unemployment, and the cost that it is now because we have 76,000 people that are unemployed and having to receive that money? What is the extra cost to our country, let alone the cost to the mental health of those people, etc., etc., etc.? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00221744c713b96e484e8440bb4daed2678a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221744c713b96e484e8440bb4daed2678a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E As I said, we now are forecasting in the 2025-26 appropriation documents $4.6 billion on the jobseeker benefit. That member wants to ask a question about comparing a cost to 2023. I\u2019ve gone through the figures, I\u2019ve explained how we get to this point in terms of the economic cycle, and she seems to have missed the point that we have come in at a time where high spending, high interest rates, high inflation led to economic recession and the harshest economic times since the 1990s. What follows is higher levels of unemployment. That is why our Government has set a target to reduce the number of people on the unemployment benefit by 50,000. We will push through these challenging economic times with our Going for Growth strategy, which is all about not just the fiscal cost but the human cost. The human cost that I as Minister am unwilling to tolerate is that someone under 25 will spend another 18 years of their life on welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5865a56fa0c4477ba8e5e36e2d45e7c\u0022\u003EEducation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00226cd21c57e9884ac283f0a7fb52d72840\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cd21c57e9884ac283f0a7fb52d72840\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the Minister for Social Development and Employment\u2019s time in the chair has come to an end. We now have the Minister of Education. The Minister is available to speak to that portfolio from now until the dinner break, and I give the first call to Carl Bates, the deputy chairperson of the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u00226a19e1b1c86a403b8d98f928eb24c7c4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a19e1b1c86a403b8d98f928eb24c7c4\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (Deputy Chairperson of the Education and Workforce Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. As deputy chair of the Education and Workforce Committee, it is my privilege to speak on Budget Estimates for 2025-26 for Vote Education. This year\u2019s Budget, as the Minister told the committee, included the largest investment into learning support in a generation. Budget 2025 includes $645.8 million for operational funding and just over $100 million for capital funding for learning support initiatives over four years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003EIn addition, Budget 2025 extended the early intervention service through to the end of year 1 at primary school. About $192 million is allocated over four years to fund that provision. An additional $43 million funds additional speech language therapists, psychologists, and teacher-aide hours. Furthermore, the Ongoing Resourcing Scheme, known as ORS, has traditionally been funded via a fixed budget. From Budget 2025, it will now be demand-driven. If a child is eligible for ORS, they will have access to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003EContrary to the belief of some, the facts are that the total Vote Education budget has had an overall increase in spending of about $429 million, with the five largest areas of spending being $8.7 billion for primary and secondary education, $3.4 billion for school property portfolio management, $3\u00A0billion for early learning, and $1.8 billion for Ministry of Education capital expenditure, as well as $1.6 billion for outcomes and target groups.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister: is she as excited as the principals I spoke to on Friday, who said learning support sparks up optimism about the learning support allocation starting in 2026, as a result of this Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd08d90e956c4170b34f49cc948dacee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd08d90e956c4170b34f49cc948dacee\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014oh, Madam Chair, I should say; old habits. Can I just start by saying this was a transformational Budget. One of my key six priority areas was learning support. We learnt when we were in Opposition but also from being the Minister that a key priority needed always to be a serious investment in learning support. For too long, we have been having meetings and creating strategy documents and having a think about it and have been tinkering around the edges. Meanwhile, children sat on wait-lists. The child was not getting the right service at the right time for far too long. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EWe put a lot of effort into working with the sector to find out what it was that they needed. They talked to me about a number of different things, and we\u2019ve allocated those into a tiered-system approach, starting with universal support. One of the things we found that the principals were telling us from across the country was that the previous allocations of learning support coordinators were inequitable. The second tranche that was always promised never came. It was extraordinarily disappointing. There were some regions of New Zealand that only had 18\u00A0percent coverage of learning support coordinators.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThis historic Budget, which is the largest investment in a generation, of three quarters of a billion dollars will go to solving that inequity problem with learning support coordinators. It was just in the last week or so that we were able to go out to all schools and say to them when they could expect their learning support coordinator\u2014either next year, the following, or the year after that\u2014so that they all know and can plan. I know that schools in the great electorate of Whanganui were very excited, including Kane from Aberfeldy School, who said that that was the best news that he\u2019d almost ever received. It is going to make a huge difference on the ground.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThere is so much more than that. That extension of learning support through early childhood to the end of year 1 is something that teachers and principals have been crying out for for so long. It now means that when a child turns five, they will continue to get the same support that they got before. What used to happen was it would stop and you\u2019d have to start again, and it would be months before you could get that learning support back on stream. That was a huge loss to those young people who needed support. We are flooding in resources. This is hundreds of millions of dollars into early intervention support, and we are taking a social-investment approach because we know that the earlier we intervene into these young people\u2019s lives, the better their outcomes are for learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThat does mean a lot more early intervention teachers\u2014hundreds of them. It does mean a lot more educational psychologists and speech language therapists. One of the questions I\u2019ve had from around the country\u2014I front-footed this in my Budget speech\u2014was: where are all of these people going to come from, Minister? I\u2019ve said to the sector, \u201CWe are agnostic about where the support comes from.\u201D We are working very differently now. It may not be that the ministry employs that educational psychologist. Where there is private provision, we will use it. Where there is an NGO, we will use it. Where there is philanthropy, we will use it. All we want and all parents want is for the service to get to the child. We will make sure that that happens, and we\u2019re going to work in a very different way to ensure that those wait-lists are reduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s not only that but also, as a previous speaker mentioned, the ongoing resource scheme (ORS), for our very highest learners. I remember, when I became the Minister of Education, there was a certain official who said to me, \u201CMinister, you will never make this demand-driven.\u201D What I would like to say is that I had one meeting with the Minister of Finance, and I asked her if we could make this demand-driven rather than a set budget, and she said yes, because she gets it, she cares, and she understands. That now means that if a child is eligible for ORS, they will get it. There will be no more raiding from other budgets or making it really difficult to get the scheme. They will get that support that they need. This will be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds\u2014up to 1,700\u2014children additional over the next few years. It is a huge amount, and that will kick in from next year. It is very, very exciting for those families who know how difficult it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EWe know, from across all of these announcements, the amount of teacher-aide hours that will be provided will hugely increase. From next year, it\u2019s an additional 900,000 hours, building up to 2\u00A0million hours by 2028. That\u2019s a huge amount next year and more thereafter up to 2028\u2014an additional 2 million hours from every year into the ongoing resource scheme and into the early intervention scheme. Teachers have been crying out for more help in the classroom to get those waitlists cleared, to get more support for their children in need, but also to make sure that there were those learning support coordinators. All the things that teachers have been asking for for many, many years and that they\u2019ve been fighting for, now they have them, and I\u2019m extraordinarily proud of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcf9006a3f1f47bc90e60fd0e5167177\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcf9006a3f1f47bc90e60fd0e5167177\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to say that we\u2019ve had our time cut short here today, so I hope that our questions can be short and sharp and our answers can be short and sharp as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022\u003ETo the Associate Minister, I\u2019d like to ask three early childhood education (ECE) questions. I\u2019m not going to give a preamble, but, basically, how much funding, if any, for Budget 2025 was freed up specifically pausing or stopping ECE sector pay equity claims? How much of that, if any, went back into ECE? Does the Associate Minister recognise that qualifications, skills, and experience should matter for new ECE teachers? If so, how does changing the way that pay parity, as he has announced, for new teachers coming into the profession\u2014how will that encourage new teachers into the profession when they\u2019ve had their pay parity, basically, cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022d52c12d751c24f01b8db8b6952eed9cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d52c12d751c24f01b8db8b6952eed9cb\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I thank the Labour member for her questions. In relation to her first question\u2014what sort of money was freed up from potential early childhood pay equity claims\u2014the answer to that is none, because it was held in contingency. As to what amount was held in contingency on behalf of early childhood education (ECE), I don\u2019t have that figure. I\u2019d be happy to ask the Minister responsible, which is the Minister of Finance, for that information, if indeed it exists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThe second point that I would make about, I think she said, skills, experience, and qualifications in relation to an early childhood educator\u2019s ability to educate children: well, you know, clearly, those things are extremely important. The question that I think people interested in this area should be thinking about, personally, is who decides? At the moment, under the pay parity scheme, you continue to be promoted and get additional pay each year for being there, and prior to these pay parity changes, you also entered the scheme at a certain level based on formal qualifications. I just make the point that as I move around New Zealand and I visit many early childhood centres, I have enormous admiration for the people that work in the centres and enormous admiration for the people who operate the centres. In my view, those people should have more say about how they apply their funding to remunerate the teachers, because it\u2019s they who can judge the skills, experience, and value of the qualifications of the teachers better than perhaps a rather rigid framework set out in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003ETo answer the final question, I think the changes we\u2019ve made to pay parity will really enhance the value of teachers and skills, experience, and qualifications, because the people closest to the situation\u2014the people with the blood, sweat, and tears on the floor of the ECE\u2014will be able to apply their judgment to those remuneration decisions to a greater extent than they could before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022a598718387db4a5385602a5d73fd4fd0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a598718387db4a5385602a5d73fd4fd0\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E One very short question, again following on from the Hon\u00A0Jan Tinetti on early childhood education (ECE): why did the Associate Minister of Education go ahead with setting up a ministerial advisory group (MAG) for an ECE funding review when that was against Treasury\u2019s advice, especially now we see there are already members of that MAG who have left the MAG?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdd119f2ce814fb5bb9d1261087684ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdd119f2ce814fb5bb9d1261087684ae\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Well, first of all, the great thing about our democracy is that the people can vote for whoever they like. Maybe one day you\u2019ll be able to vote for the Treasury, but the Treasury wasn\u2019t on the ballot at the last election. These people over here were elected to make decisions, so the fact that we\u2019re not doing everything the Treasury tells us to\u2014that\u2019s called democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThe second point is the Treasury\u2019s perspective is not the only one that matters. I\u2019m interested in the perspective of the parents, I\u2019m interested in the perspective of the teachers, I\u2019m interested in the perspective of the taxpayers, and I\u2019m also interested in the perspective of the schools that early childhood centres are feeding into. They\u2019ve all got perspectives. What I hear from people is that the way that early childhood education funding is done in New Zealand is not really intentional. It\u2019s a little bit like a sedimentary rock. It\u2019s layered up over many decades as different Governments have put different policies in place. We have put together, under the chairpersonship of Linda Meade, a really talented group of people. It is true that we\u2019ve had one person depart, and yet we have rapidly been able to replace them with an equally, if not more, skilled person. I think that is an enormously positive outcome for New Zealanders, because we\u2019re going to have an under-the-hood look at getting our early childhood funding right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u00224eea114cfb7840208ce5b06ccc3549bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224eea114cfb7840208ce5b06ccc3549bf\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The Government has removed or completely rewritten the curriculum framework Te M\u0101taiaho so that it is almost unrecognisable. The Government has refreshed the refreshed draft curriculum for English and maths. It has minimised te reo M\u0101ori, references to Te Tiriti, and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori in many curriculum areas. My question to the Minister is: how much money is budgeted for recolonising the curriculum? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EFurther to that, during the Estimates, at select committee the Minister said this. My question to the Minister is: why did she justify the lack of dedicated funding for M\u0101ori education by claiming that all brains learn to read the same and so the investment is going into structured literacy for everyone instead? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0aacb73b2674776a693f390f3834697\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0aacb73b2674776a693f390f3834697\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As far as it relates to the Budget, I\u2019ll answer those questions, and the second one does because it talks about investment in M\u0101ori education. If the member would like to go to the Ministry of Education website, there is an entire document about the investment into M\u0101ori education in this Budget, which totalled $100 million of many really important initiatives, one of which, and the biggest of which, of course, is into property\u2014there is $60 million going into property. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThere are a number of other initiatives in this Budget, none of which are around structured literacy in the M\u0101ori education budget. In terms of structured literacy and raising achievement, if the previous Minister is interested, she should visit some schools who are doing structured literacy and are seeing incredibly accelerated learning for their tamariki M\u0101ori. There\u2019s one in particular that I mention a lot because it was extremely impressive when I was up at Kerikeri Primary School up in Northland. They have accelerated M\u0101ori achievement in structured literacy through having a dedicated teacher workforce but also through having structured mathematics as well, and their M\u0101ori students are now achieving at the same rate as every other child. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve got to remember that most M\u0101ori children are in the mainstream. When we look at what is going to make sure that we\u2019re accelerating that achievement, we are looking across the board at things that make the biggest difference: structured literacy, structured maths, the science of learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EWith regard to the comment that she made about \u201Call brains learn the same\u201D, it was a particular question that I was asked in the select committee around learning to read and the difference between long-term and short-term memory, which is a crucial underpinning of the science of learning, and if the previous Minister is interested, she could read up about it. Essentially, what it says is that the short-term memory can hold only a small number of things. The underpinning of structured literacy is that you need to retain things in your long-term memory, and that is the same for all brains. There is no brain that I\u2019m aware of that can hold inordinate amounts of knowledge in its short-term memory, as that would create cognitive load issues. That was the context for that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EThere is a $100 million M\u0101ori education budget. There is also an extraordinarily huge amount of money going into curriculum design, and resources are available to make sure that we are accelerating learning for all students, including tamariki M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u002206e9a9f7c6564688925e6610d8691a1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206e9a9f7c6564688925e6610d8691a1f\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. The Minister didn\u2019t answer my first question, which was: how much money is budgeted for recolonising the curriculum? In fact, I\u2019ll point out that in the Minister\u2019s answer, she talked about most M\u0101ori being in English-medium schools, and so that question is particularly relevant because it is the recolonising of that particular curriculum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022075ed6eba1014c03a6756abd4dd11f49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022075ed6eba1014c03a6756abd4dd11f49\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The member will be well aware that there wasn\u2019t anything in this Budget for curriculum design. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2ce6ec621ff4cbcaa74d1613e3b1889\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2ce6ec621ff4cbcaa74d1613e3b1889\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Why does the Minister listen to people like Elizabeth Rata, with an established history of anti-M\u0101ori views? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00226e73d42082d0409e95ba896e025b56d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e73d42082d0409e95ba896e025b56d8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure that that\u2019s actually an Estimates-related question. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022750e7f09186f479a9b2fe41b1ae48027\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022750e7f09186f479a9b2fe41b1ae48027\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chairperson. This House has long-established conventions and Speakers\u2019 rulings that a member should not be accused of being racist. I believe that it brings the House into disrepute if members use their free speech in this House to make a similar accusation against a member of the public, who cannot defend herself in this House. I think to uphold the mana of this House, that member should withdraw her comment. Otherwise, the public will lose faith in us having free speech, because they\u2019ll see that we just abuse it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022f78c7a7bb41c463bba6ffa5e637d0228\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f78c7a7bb41c463bba6ffa5e637d0228\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, this member of the public that Willow-Jean Prime has spoken about has a history of writing against M\u0101ori over the last generation. M\u0101ori have taken offence against this woman. Many academics and many M\u0101ori organisations\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb6f5ab4d8e419ba2e8fdeefadcea13\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: OK. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e5d3e9a163f456e90a645bc2857628d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014have opposed the writings of this woman. The woman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002261c9e67d295f47b6b9332ed657a19966\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261c9e67d295f47b6b9332ed657a19966\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I take the member\u2019s point in speaking to the point of order, and I\u2019d just ask the member to take his seat. We\u2019re actually not here in a general debate. We are here in a sense that we are here to question the Minister on the Estimates of the Budget, and I think it would be most helpful if the members would actually take that course, and regardless of what people outside of this place have said, it isn\u2019t helpful to use them in this particular debate. Can we stick to the Estimates, please. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u00225ec74fd61717484884a37d7ea6997b72\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ec74fd61717484884a37d7ea6997b72\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It is relevant because this person that I have referenced is writing the curriculum, and so it is covered by the Budget that we are talking about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffb592c4bfae4de68cc04619eab7f0bb\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00224da9e0292aef43618a6ec2b5b5cee54f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224da9e0292aef43618a6ec2b5b5cee54f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, the Hon David Seymour. I haven\u2019t asked the member to apologise; I\u2019ve asked us to move forward as a committee of the whole House. Look, there is a view that\u2019s held on this side of the Chamber that a particular person has had a view that they speak to in regard to education. What I\u2019ve said is that it\u2019s irrelevant to bring other people\u2019s names into the Estimates. If we\u2019re going to get the best out of this debate, we\u2019re going to need to ask questions about the Estimates to the Minister. I haven\u2019t asked that member to withdraw and apologise at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00229b9fe9e234b94bd583fc0045e972c048\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b9fe9e234b94bd583fc0045e972c048\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Is that because you don\u2019t believe that it brings the House into disrepute, because saying that someone is a racist person\u2014which is what she said\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225995ed0c31e342518fca0dc5d62c1c21\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Anti-M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225932206c218c40058b037688c598f045\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014yeah\u2014and saying the person\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f82c47013e88406ea5ed692b692074c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: She was asking about that person\u2019s influence on policy. I\u2019m asking the member to stick to the debate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaf8ed0535314156b21f3a4cbb7fe2fa\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, she also made a reflection on the person. I mean, this is quite a serious point for the House, and it\u2019s different from what Willie Jackson said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00226cf97b16059b436b9444758522359bb0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cf97b16059b436b9444758522359bb0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no, I say to the Hon David Seymour that we\u2019re going to move forward into the Estimates debate so that we can get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a342eef993348428310a0b1fd2da24e\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Well, I think that\u2019s really sad. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8c65e4303a841f58a8d303cc38c9e47\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the best from the Minister. I\u2019m sorry if the member disagrees with me, but we\u2019re moving forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00221c5b7a67204c48db89b7d54ffa53da0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221c5b7a67204c48db89b7d54ffa53da0e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I do want to ask the Minister of Education if the Minister agrees with a certain person\u2019s statement\u2014just checking with the Chair that I can do that. This is publicly available information. I want to ask the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228acfa13e738541ef9229ebfea9d9dc75\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: If it relates to the Estimates\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227560c6a9bd094a119c8387272e01f88a\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: To the Budget, yes. I would like to ask if the Minister agrees with Michael Johnston, who went on The Platform to say that in terms of the current bill, the Education and Training Amendment Bill (No 2) that\u2019s going through, Stanford is being \u201Cpolitically sensible to not remove it\u201D\u2014Te Tiriti\u2014\u201Cat this point.\u201D He points to Stanford saying in another interview \u201Cthat Te Tiriti \u2018would be considered under\u2019 Minister Goldsmith\u2019s \u2018omnibus reform of legislation\u2019, so avoiding a \u2018fight with the school sector\u2019 is the right thing to do while she\u2019s focusing on driving curriculum reform.\u201D Does the Minister agree with that, and, if not, how much of the Budget is driving the removal of Te Tiriti from curriculum and the Eurocentric ideology that is being pushed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u002279cdb9945e1c4f91aa4ce20ae2b46707\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002279cdb9945e1c4f91aa4ce20ae2b46707\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to that, I didn\u2019t hear that particular interview, so I can\u2019t comment, but I would say that there is a huge amount of resource going into this Budget to raise M\u0101ori achievement. When I think about honouring the Treaty and Te Tiriti, I think about making sure that outcomes for tamariki M\u0101ori are equal to, if not better than, everybody else in the system, which is why there is so much resource going into providing equity of resource in te reo M\u0101ori, not only in structured literacy but in Panguru, where we\u2019re making sure we\u2019ve got professional learning and development for those teachers. This is from a previous Budget, but we\u2019re making sure we are refreshing Te Marautanga as well, and there\u2019ll be some announcements tomorrow about new curriculum areas within Te Marautanga. Everything we are doing is about honouring the Treaty to ensure that those young M\u0101ori who are coming through the education system have every opportunity to succeed, and that they are succeeding. I know that every parent wants their child to succeed. In terms of the specific question, there is nothing in this Budget relating to that particular bill that the member talks about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022f542378e3224409482c978f7b2389476\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f542378e3224409482c978f7b2389476\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Our follow-up question is: we have seen the statistics around the fact that \u0101konga M\u0101ori and kaupapa M\u0101ori-medium education do better at NCEA, so is what the Minister\u2019s saying that the only way for \u0101konga M\u0101ori to achieve is through a Eurocentric pedological framework?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6663a739f1b44b6b85557e0e66a6a07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6663a739f1b44b6b85557e0e66a6a07\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E The member Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan is exactly right, which is why there is so much investment going into kura kaupapa M\u0101ori. We have spent a lot of time\u2014I have spent a lot of time\u2014with Ng\u0101 Kura \u0101 Iwi and Te R\u016Bnanga Nui talking about aspirations for their students and delivering on the things they have been asking for. In terms of that, one of the things we have budgeted for in this Budget is the Virtual Learning Network, which is making sure there are specialist te reo teachers around the country who are able to beam into classrooms in different parts of the country, because it can be very difficult to find a reo teacher who is a specialist in a particular area. They asked for that, and we delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EMore to that, we\u2019re also making sure we\u2019re delivering literacy and maths resources for kura kaupapa M\u0101ori in te reo M\u0101ori that haven\u2019t been produced before. There is more around professional learning and development. As I said earlier, it\u2019s a $100 million package, $40 million of which is outside of building. As I have already said, they do get very good results, and we\u2019re committed to building out that network. As I\u2019ve said previously, for the very first time in this nation\u2019s history, we are including kura kaupapa M\u0101ori in network planning. It has never been done before, which is why in every single Budget we are setting aside tranches of money to make sure we can continue to build those schools, and in this Budget, there was $60 million. In the previous Budget, there was $50 million. We\u2019ll continue to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00222560e66158da456a9d1a008b949f1e0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222560e66158da456a9d1a008b949f1e0e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to move on now, actually, to NCEA. Budget 2025 doesn\u2019t actually include anything about the scrapping of NCEA, which is currently being consulted on by the Minister. Can I just check with the Minister: how much has she budgeted or is she intending to budget in supplementary budgets for the scrapping of NCEA? Also, will she respond to the open letter by 121 principals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256173303b8bf4c8c929467038c1397e3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister\u2019s just clarified that it\u2019s not in the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea14bfb3853f416c8230678e65919f01\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: But this will have Budget implications, because it\u2019s happening now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5b2e60998e34d28b1f64149860fe4e3\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Give the other guy a go. I mean, he can\u2019t be worse, or can he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0e5e5d0c3224f48b37fb9317b1e1769\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0e5e5d0c3224f48b37fb9317b1e1769\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Shush up, David Seymour. Can I ask the Minister: has she consulted with Ng\u0101 Tapuwae college with regards to NCEA, where they\u2019ve had some of the most successful results in terms of M\u0101ori students over the last few years, led by Arihia Stirling? We visited there recently, and obviously they want to work with the Government. I want to ask the Minister: has she worked with this school, which is one of te ao M\u0101ori\u2019s most successful schools and also a real success in terms of South Auckland? Were they given any opportunity in terms of her strategy around NCEA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022af9a42f10e7242d1a97a6881c2abefeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af9a42f10e7242d1a97a6881c2abefeb\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I see that the Minister of Education didn\u2019t answer the first questions around the Budget for the replacement of NCEA. We find it interesting, through others, not herself directly, that apparently there is no budget for it, when it is supposed to come into effect next year. What is the budget if this is to be approved? I think you\u2019re trying to say that it\u2019s not predetermined. What budget will be allocated, if this is approved, from next year\u2019s Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00220651ca86ddc24353baa7f1d6bbf630cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220651ca86ddc24353baa7f1d6bbf630cc\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E On that question, I think we are a little bit concerned by the fact that this is something that is happening within the financial year of Budget 2025, yet the Minister could not respond to the fact that something as major as replacing the qualification of Aotearoa New Zealand has been considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022728d147f45234a1c887b4b7eb44c3ce4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022728d147f45234a1c887b4b7eb44c3ce4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E We are in a consultation phase. No decisions have been made. I was very clear in this year\u2019s Budget when I talked about the massive investment, predominantly in primary schools, and I said that next year\u2019s Budget would be a secondary Budget. We haven\u2019t made decisions. Nothing has been budgeted for at this point because we\u2019re only just at the very start of consultation, which is going to take some time. In terms of speaking with Ng\u0101 Kura \u0101 Iwi o Aotearoa on te reo M\u0101ori, we have been doing, and I spoke with Arihia this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022f74a2a6f020a4492b6747be282d839fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f74a2a6f020a4492b6747be282d839fc\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Sorry, just one follow-up question around that. We see, in terms of the Budget document\u2014particularly the Cabinet paper and the Budget paper that was released last week\u2014that anything to do with the Budget is a long-term process, so what conversations has the Minister had with the Minister of Finance around something like this in anticipation to any changes to NCEA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u002246688fcf598d40e884082816641ad36c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002246688fcf598d40e884082816641ad36c\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I mean, this is very difficult, because it is something that we\u2019re talking about right now, and for it to be able to be effectively implemented, if it is to be approved, we need to know how much consideration the Minister has given to the funding that is going to be required for the effective implementation of this\u2014for example, what budget is there for additional teaching and staffing and professional learning and development? What budget is there for industry skills boards, who are going to have the role of developing the curriculum and assessment under this proposal? Surely the Minister and the ministry have done some thinking about this, because if they haven\u2019t and it starts next year, then we have a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022016d3a9236254e248b6f72170db7433c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022016d3a9236254e248b6f72170db7433c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest that given the Minister\u2019s answer that this doesn\u2019t involve Budget 2025, the Minister\u2019s made it very clear. I suggest that questions are aimed at what is in the Estimates of Budget 2025 to get the best out of the session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022da2a03ddd1af43a6a3dc88e78d4ad371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da2a03ddd1af43a6a3dc88e78d4ad371\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cddf96f62e946fca1b98c8e36718176\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You can ask a different question, but you\u2019ll get the same answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cea05cd8c03e4ba69170954b9d1450a4\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME\u003C/span\u003E: No, but, Madam Chair, the Budget actually covers a forecast period. What is the forecast for this proposed change of overhauling the entire assessment framework? There\u2019s significant amount of work that is going to need to go into the implementation of this, the staffing of this, the funding of the industry skills boards, if they are to have the roles. In the forecast period covered by Budget 2025 that has been released, what funding has been put aside for this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u002227bc1364a2ac48a38d61d6f1b2678a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227bc1364a2ac48a38d61d6f1b2678a74\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I think it is peculiar that the four-year period that the Budget is in\u2014I\u2019m assuming that means that the Minister of Education has decided that NCEA changes will not happen until 2029, so we will see how that goes. Let\u2019s look at NCEA in a different light. We\u2019re looking at the qualification, but let\u2019s talk about curriculum. The public has emailed us in terms of changes to some of the subjects, and particularly when it comes to the general academic subjects. What is in the Budget on the implementation of new curricula and new subject lists? Nothing? OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u002206ee58783d3d4ff682a8364edaad8f52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ee58783d3d4ff682a8364edaad8f52\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E As the Opposition are failing to ask any questions, I thought I would help out with the whole procedure and start by just talking a little bit about the communities of learning, which I understand are being disestablished. I understand that there\u2019s been some people who were concerned about that, but, overwhelmingly, there\u2019s been a lot of success and also a lot of money that has been freed up that can be used for other purposes. I just wondered if the Minister might like to talk to the committee about the disestablishment of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1d54f4a8aa0440397ae8817247859ad\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219f7743f89264c1ab368b044b191d4e1\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014communities of learning and also about how the funds freed up have been applied.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00226df44e44263a4038818823a88fcacca5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226df44e44263a4038818823a88fcacca5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Do I have a point of order? No, I don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1b70a0c0eec480db90e99fd6a2e6d7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1b70a0c0eec480db90e99fd6a2e6d7a\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Very quickly, Madam Chair, because I am running out of my own speaking time. It\u2019s nice to get\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9e3ab9f725d49718e5c05a426af645d\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a12b346c72c94a40bf2298779c041ae2\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s OK. It\u2019s a nice to get a question about this Budget rather than imaginary future Budgets. But it was something that the sector had called for very loudly. They wanted an extra learning support budget; they wanted additional funds put into the Ongoing Resourcing Scheme and teacher-aides and learning support coordinators, and they overwhelmingly lobbied me to disestablish the communities of learning or k\u0101hui ako. We listened to their feedback. We have done that. We\u2019re winding it down over a number of years while we power up the learning support budget, and it has been very, very well received by the sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022229655cd90854d8dae49be6bee7b1832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022229655cd90854d8dae49be6bee7b1832\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I don\u2019t know why the Minister did not answer the questions about curriculum and subjects. Regardless of the NCEA change programme, or entire scrapping of it that the Minister is proposing, curriculum is supposed to start next year. The ministry says it has been delayed but curriculum should be implemented in term 4 and then next year. Can the Minister please talk to the Budget for that as well as the professional learning and development to go with it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef6f6012db848acb2772d6bd81396b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef6f6012db848acb2772d6bd81396b5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E In terms of this year\u2019s Budget, there was plenty put aside for additional curriculum advisers, specialty secondary curriculum advisers, and the member will be able to find that in the information sheets that are printed on the ministry website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003EIn terms of professional learning and development, there is baselined money for ongoing professional learning and development. In terms of the\u2014I know that the previous Minister\u2019s very interested in the future, but the senior secondary subject areas will not be coming in for many years. There will be future Budgets that go to that, but they\u2019re not in this Budget round, which is why it makes it difficult to answer questions when we\u2019re talking about this particular Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1096624ab864cd2ac6411b0e0c7d7d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1096624ab864cd2ac6411b0e0c7d7d0\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m so glad that the Associate Minister and the Minister of Education mentioned about k\u0101hui ako, because can I check with the Minister that when in this Budget, k\u0101hui ako has been removed, has the Minister consulted with unions, which was advised as a priority?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u002265f16a810a5d45eeac2b7527554ee28a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265f16a810a5d45eeac2b7527554ee28a\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Just very quickly on that\u2014because I am, as I said, running out of time. It was very interesting to note that when k\u0101hui ako were established in the first case\u2014many years ago, under a previous National Government, as it turns out\u2014the people that railed against them at that time were the unions. I listened to them from that time but also listened to more of the evidence, which shows us that, actually, overall, the Education Review Office found that those schools who were part of k\u0101hui ako\u2014their results were very marginally worse than those who weren\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00228f9a98bc9b664706b23b50e989da05c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f9a98bc9b664706b23b50e989da05c2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I just wonder if the Minister has any comments\u2014perhaps with the assistance of one of her associates\u2014on the Ka Ora, Ka Ako - Healthy School Lunches programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u00228e5165023335446daf428113e5e54275\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e5165023335446daf428113e5e54275\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019d have to refer to my associate to speak about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00222c9834c4ce8a41b8a42600a25dc08318\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c9834c4ce8a41b8a42600a25dc08318\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much for this opportunity. I\u2019d just like to say that I think it\u2019s been absolutely\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4558cce00e547149c7c23d4d596b9a0\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a978cd2c9114ff8bf43858c05dc723a\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, here we go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab2a72771c2949f6892850e042c69e35\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has made herself unavailable for the remaining 16 minutes that we have for this session, and here we have the Associate Minister interrupting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd29c45f35d54210a623c0275f0e82e5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No, each party in the House has an allocated time in this debate. Now, we\u2019ve just been through a period where the Opposition members have been asking questions which the Minister has clearly said do not relate to Budget 2025. On that basis, I\u2019ve given the call to the Hon David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227833694cc76c4201bdea0349f5b10ad4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203130b688ff84d37a97aa06205e23439\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, just one small clarification from you, Madam Chair: are you saying that a person can now ask themselves questions as a part of the Budget debate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d88b6fb607a74d2c81f51bb0957d71bf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the person actually asked it to the Minister, who delegated the Hon David Seymour to answer the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u002253a95aa8dc3440eb95463001c0fd15ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253a95aa8dc3440eb95463001c0fd15ac\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I thank the Minister of Education for referring this very good question to me. I want to talk a little bit about how the Healthy School Lunches Programme is performing. In short, it is performing exceedingly well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003ELast week, just to take one example, the delivery in full on time, or default, was 99.98 percent. Now, anyone involved in any kind of logistics delivery, that kind of business\u2014and people do say this to me. They say, \u201CWhat you\u2019re achieving there\u201D\u2014well, it\u2019s not me. They say that what the people delivering the Healthy School Lunches Programme, the School Lunch Collective, are achieving is actually quite extraordinary in the world of on-time delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re also getting very, very positive reviews in terms of the quality. The term 3 menu was evaluated by groups of students. They gave it 73 percent approval. Now, if you talk to parents in this country, most would be pretty happy to get 73 percent approval for the lunches that they\u2019re putting in students\u2019 lunch boxes, so that is a big victory.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that\u2019s critical to recognise is that this is being done for $130\u00A0million less than the previous programme. As primary schools come into the programme next year, as budgeted, there\u2019s going to be an opportunity to increase that saving to over $170 million. Now, to put that in perspective, had the previous Government adopted this approach, they would have saved about $800\u00A0million of debt over five years, and that is debt that the young people at school would not have to pay, but, sadly, they will have to because of the inefficient programme that preceded this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also a really good example of actually celebrating something that works and backing change, because we had a lot of people who were very happy to pile in and criticise when we had some teething problems with the programme. What do you hear from those people today?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca65e2c6818e4873859c67304ff7545e\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Crickets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af71f80eb675436a8942b8a0b3359d09\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Crickets. Crickets. Crickets. That\u2019s what we hear from them, because they\u2019re very happy to pile in, drag down, do the whole \u201Cpull them down\u201D thing, but they\u2019re not there to push up what is a success. I think it\u2019s actually a very good example, and I would say to the people in the Ministry of Education and the School Lunch Collective: good on you for getting 99.98 percent on-time delivery; good on you for saving the taxpayer money at a rate that would have taken $800\u00A0million of debt off these young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003EWe look forward to the programme in the next year rolling out to primary schools as well, as budgeted in the Estimates\u2014which, for the Opposition\u2019s information, is what we\u2019re here to debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u0022569a03288e214c42ab94c3cf022e5f68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022569a03288e214c42ab94c3cf022e5f68\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te Minita. I\u2019ve been going up and down the country speaking with different wh\u0101nau, different kura, different kaiako, and their biggest concern\u2014particularly coming up to Te\u00A0Wiki o Te Reo M\u0101ori next week\u2014is that the biggest barrier that will keep tamariki M\u0101ori out of learning their language is actually waiting lists. Across the country, there\u2019s about a thousand kids on waiting lists for puna reo. There\u2019s about another estimated thousand kids on a waiting list for k\u014Dhanga reo. For the majority of kura kaupapa and wharekura\u2014any full immersion school\u2014you have to have had some learning of te reo M\u0101ori or have gone to k\u014Dhanga reo before entering into these fullimmersion schools. It\u2019s hard for them to even get to that point when there are a thousand kids on those waiting lists. The realities for all wh\u0101nau, actually, is that they\u2019re having to put their tamaiti on the waiting list before they\u2019re even born. There\u2019s a five-year waiting list. The biggest concern across the country, actually, is waiting lists.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003EHistorically, M\u0101ori education has been underfunded across the board, only getting, at most, 1\u00A0percent of the full Budget, no matter who\u2019s in Government. I\u2019d just really like to know from the Minister what in Budget 2025 is going to eradicate these waiting lists so that there are more resources and there\u2019s some more capacity for M\u0101ori education for tamariki M\u0101ori across the board in M\u0101ori education. When it comes to resourcing and staffing and building capacity within our M\u0101ori education, what specifically is in Budget 2025? T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u002222272b4d20fa4a758399945a61c76a49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222272b4d20fa4a758399945a61c76a49\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Associate Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member for her question; I thank all members for questions on early childhood. In relation to k\u014Dhanga reo, and te\u00A0puna reo for that matter, in this Budget we have carried on with business as usual. However, in Budget\u00A02024\u2014I know we\u2019re focused on this one\u2014I just want to make the point that the Government did put a substantial increase in funding to help capitalise k\u014Dhanga reo in the previous year. I think that reflects the fact that the Government remains committed to offering choice, remains committed to supporting te puna reo and k\u014Dhanga reo, and as we work through the funding review, we will continue to do that. We\u2019ve had a track record of investing and we will continue to do so. We didn\u2019t make any changes in this Budget that we\u2019re talking about, but that\u2019s not a reflection of our commitment, which was shown in the previous Budget. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75ff3a61fec48559e48798b24031757\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75ff3a61fec48559e48798b24031757\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. In what was perhaps the biggest sabotage of women\u2019s rights in a generation, the Government ripped up, in one day, the pay equity regime in order to save their Budget. This particularly affected teachers, who saw their multiple pay equity claims cancelled, and for secondary schools, cancelled entirely\u2014completely shut out from any future claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is: is she comfortable being the Minister of Education who oversaw the daylight robbery of teachers\u2019 rights to pay equity? Will the Minister commit, like the Associate Minister of Education did earlier, to asking the Minister of Finance what the figure was that was saved from the cancellation of those pay equity claims? I want that commitment. Further to that, how much of that money has gone back into education, perhaps paying for that learning support package she spoke about earlier?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00223984036e3d61425e805e829c23f57bed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223984036e3d61425e805e829c23f57bed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for the dinner break, but I just wanted to make one comment before we go to the dinner break, because I thought maybe if people had\u2014this debate has been fairly frustrating from a number of fronts. If somebody\u2019s got a spare half an hour, I suggest watching the debate between 9.30 and 10 p.m. last night, when Shanan Halbert was questioning the Hon Penny Simmonds and the Hon Dr Shane Reti\u2014the homing in on questions relevant to Budget 2025. It was a far less frustrating time in the Chamber. I just do want to make that comment that those questions were really homed in on the Budget, and we\u2019ve missed the point a wee bit in this session.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003ESo, members, the time has come for the dinner break. We\u2019ll resume the debate at 7.30\u00A0p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.59 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f6455323a1e1426b838f5ed361dc2de4\u0022\u003EHealth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u002216b8aa3189904621b8f493e51c499aca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b8aa3189904621b8f493e51c499aca\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the committee is resumed. We now have the Minister of Health. The Minister is available to speak to that portfolio from 7.30\u00A0 p.m. to 8.30 p.m. I\u2019ll give the call to the chairperson of the Health Committee, Sam Uffindell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022 data-id=\u002242c97a4e00404aa8bc93fe7d77914f7c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242c97a4e00404aa8bc93fe7d77914f7c\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (Chairperson of the Health Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chairman. It\u2019s good to be able to rise and speak on the Health Estimates, and I just wanted to run over a few things that we saw. The Government looks to be funding an increase of $5.5 billion across hospital and specialist services. There\u2019s also a significant focus going forward in this Budget. There\u2019s also an increase in around over a billion dollars for additional cancer treatments. There\u2019s an expansion to urgent after-hours care services, and I want to, of course, note my hometown Tauranga, which is one of the fortunate beneficiaries of that\u2014the new 24/7 digital GP service\u2014as the Government looks to take a load off and help to address some of the challenges that we have in that space, which has already supported over 21,000 consultations. Obviously, Elective Boost has been a very significant focus looking forward for this Government coming out of the Budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003EMy questions for the Minister would be if he could give us a little bit of thought around Elective Boost, the wait-list progress around the primary care action plan and the progress on the Government\u2019s 2025 Budget investments in primary care, something around the new cancer medicines\u2014a billion dollars in that space\u2014and also the primary care funding booster. If I can get some thoughts on that, that would be appreciated. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u002207db1788e4b34989bfdc948bb7c6efe8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207db1788e4b34989bfdc948bb7c6efe8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to the chair of the Health Committee for your address. The Government is delivering record investment in our health system in Budget 2025. Across three Budgets, we\u2019ve committed an additional $16.68\u00A0billion in funding to ensure our hospitals, doctors, nurses, and health professionals have the resources they need to be able to provide timely, quality healthcare to all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThis is the largest investment in health in our country\u2019s history, because we know that putting patients first requires a system that is properly resourced and focused on outcomes. That investment is translating into more staff on the front line. Since 2023, we\u2019ve seen over 2,100 more nurses and more than 600 additional doctors join our health workforce. These are the people who make the difference every day for patients, and our Government is backing them to succeed. The Budget also builds on this record with new funding for modern health infrastructure. It strengthens primary care so people can get access to GP care closer to home, and it supports initiatives across cancer services, extended prescriptions for patients, and elective treatment to ensure New Zealanders receive their hip operations, knee replacements, and cataract surgeries when they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThe investment in our new cancer medicines\u2014and I want to acknowledge my Associate Minister of Health, the Hon David Seymour\u2014is a record investment in new cancer medicines: 33 new lifechanging cancer medicines, which will be helping thousands of New Zealanders to be able to have access to treatments they would otherwise not have been able to receive. That is absolutely life changing and is a huge focus of Budget 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThe investment into Health New Zealand is also allowing us to get on top of wait-lists, which have grown too long, with too many New Zealanders waiting too long to get the care that they need. Just this week, we announced that our Elective Boost at the beginning of this year performed over 16,000 additional outsourced elective procedures to ensure more Kiwis get access to the treatments they need, and puts us on track to meet the 2024-25 milestone of 63 percent of patients receiving treatment within four months. We know that too many New Zealanders are still waiting too long to get the care that they need, but that is why we\u2019ve put in place the health targets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re providing record investment in health funding and we\u2019re focusing the system on delivering services that New Zealanders need in a timely and quality manner. By putting patients first, we\u2019re making sure that New Zealanders can get that care that they need. I\u2019m proud of the record this Government has, but I acknowledge that too many New Zealanders have been left waiting for too long. We have a significant task ahead of us, and that\u2019s why my expectations of Health New Zealand are incredibly clear: to stay focused on their health targets, put patients first, and deliver the timely, quality healthcare that all New Zealanders deserve and expect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed9df3b4c3844c9fb7dd61c1066a5235\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed9df3b4c3844c9fb7dd61c1066a5235\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you. Thank you to the chair of the Health Committee and to the Minister for those opening remarks. This Government campaigned on making cuts to back-office services in order to be able to, in their logic, free up more funds to support clinical services. I\u2019d like the Minister to describe how the programme of cuts for the current financial year will go ahead, what level of cuts have been identified, and whether that quantum of money to be released by cuts matches the difference between the deficit at the end of the last financial year of $900\u00A0million and the projected deficit of $200 million at the end of the current financial year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad279bc3eb1a4fff900776bce5ef9bed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad279bc3eb1a4fff900776bce5ef9bed\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have a p\u0101tai to the Minister in relation to the hauora M\u0101ori appropriations and am wanting to examine where the spend has gone. What gains have been made in terms of reaching the proposed targets for closing the life-expectancy gap between M\u0101ori and nonM\u0101ori, and what are the specific initiatives that are funded through new money in the hauora M\u0101ori appropriation? Further, I\u2019m wanting to understand from the Minister in terms of the pilots undertaken to inform M\u0101ori outreach and the extension of the immunisation services into the community, particularly in the Wellington region. What happened from those pilots, and then where did we commission services from there, and what are the targets associated with those new services? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3e4667309df440f9296a82c856729ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3e4667309df440f9296a82c856729ac\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Perhaps the best way to progress would be to have some back and forth with the Minister on some of these big issues relating to the overall shape of Health New Zealand\u2019s financial position and the Vote. I would like to have the opportunity to discuss that in some depth\u2014firstly, the savings programme, the scale of the cuts that are needed to be able to make that $200\u00A0million deficit, and the items that are currently being progressed to reach that deficit. I\u2019d like it if the Minister could engage in some back and forth on these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u00223d057262bb364ccf915e60482585312b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d057262bb364ccf915e60482585312b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll address firstly the questions from the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall in relation to Health New Zealand\u2019s budget. I would point her to page 38 of Health New Zealand\u2019s statement of performance expectations, which outlines Health New Zealand\u2019s revenue and expenditure for the financial year that has to do with this Budget. It points out in that statement that total revenue for the 2025-26 year for Health New Zealand is projected to be $30.58 billion and total expenditure is expected to be $30.78 billion. That is an increase in expenditure from $29.05 billion the previous year, so that is an increase in expenditure of $1.7 billion in investment in our health system through Budget 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s more funding going into personnel, that\u2019s more funding going into services, it\u2019s more funding going into services provided by funded sectors, it is more funding going into infrastructure and non-clinical supplies. I\u2019ll point the member to that forecast statement of comprehensive revenue and expenditure, which actually shows the significant investment this Government is making in health and where that money is going in terms of providing additional services for patients and for New Zealanders, and it shows the real commitment this Government is making to deliver more access to services so that all New Zealanders can get the timely, quality healthcare that they need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00227eee6f4f41d84170a0ceb09c84ee82ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227eee6f4f41d84170a0ceb09c84ee82ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. The question, however, related to the scale of the cuts or the, you might prefer to call it, \u201Csavings programme\u201D or \u201Cefficiencies\u201D. We know\u2014and Health New Zealand has spoken frequently about its plans to achieve savings\u2014that at the time of the last election, there was a programme of work that appeared to be important to the Government. Could the Minister please outline what is on the Government\u2019s agenda in order to make those savings?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u002251b33973dd25466abeb1470cddf67e60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251b33973dd25466abeb1470cddf67e60\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as I said, we\u2019re focused on the delivery of services, and as pointed out on page 38 of the statement of performance expectations, we are investing more into Health New Zealand than ever before. They will be spending more money than ever before. Our focus is on making sure they deliver more for patients than ever before so that we can get the timely, quality access to health services that New Zealanders deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the organisation and how it operates, ultimately, my expectations are very clear: I want to see as much delivery for patients as can be done with the funding that we have provided. That\u2019s why we put in place the targets. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve got programmes in place like the Elective Boost. That\u2019s why we\u2019re focusing to make sure that we can reduce wait times and wait-lists for patients who have been waiting far too long to get the specialist appointments, the surgeries, the treatments that they need and they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EI point the member to the statement of performance expectations, which clearly demonstrates that this Government is investing more, Health New Zealand will be spending more than ever before, and our expectation is very clear that that needs to deliver increased services for patients up and down this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u002273ec318ae9674837a662305a9c279c14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ec318ae9674837a662305a9c279c14\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister can direct me to a document that does not answer my question as much as he likes, and I will take this opportunity to be clear that the question wasn\u2019t answered. It does make me wonder why it was so important for this Government to point out at the election that they felt that there were massive opportunities for cuts or savings in Health New Zealand and that there was wasteful spending, and yet they cannot account for the cuts that they are undertaking in the health system now when they have to debate the health system\u2019s budget. Yet thousands of New Zealanders have lost their jobs because of the Government\u2019s programmes of cuts at Health New Zealand. The people at home listening know this programme is happening, and yet the Minister speaks of unrelated documents when he takes a question on that. I would like the Minister to consider what his obligations are to taxpayers to explain what is happening with their money. Would he reconsider answering what programme of cuts is under way at Health New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d67c4e9cca06476db64f76ac05b16f2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d67c4e9cca06476db64f76ac05b16f2a\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I\u2019ve said on a number of occasions, I\u2019m focused on delivery for patients. There have been change processes done, but those change processes have been completed. There are no major change programmes under way at Health New Zealand. I\u2019m focused on delivery for patients and ensuring the organisation delivers the services that New Zealanders need and deserve. That is my expectation of the organisation. As with all parts of Government, there will be opportunities to do things in a more efficient manner. Our expectation of all parts of Government is that they find the most efficient ways to deliver things so we can get as much value for taxpayers\u2019 money so that more patients can get the treatments that they need in a more timely manner. My focus, very clearly, as Minister of Health is to ensure that this record investment in Health New Zealand is delivering results for patients and that it is supporting the front-line services to be able to deliver that service so that patients can be seen in a more timely manner and receive the quality of care that they rightfully deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00229fc5daef8bee4e4c887bbf8c35ed1784\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229fc5daef8bee4e4c887bbf8c35ed1784\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Prior to the Estimates hearing, we knew from released documents that Treasury had warned the Minister of Finance that Health New Zealand could not make the cuts required to go from a $900 million deficit to a $200 million deficit in one financial year. The Auditor-General has also issued a similar warning. Can the Minister confirm: is it the Government\u2019s position that that $200 million deficit target no longer applies at the end of this financial year? Is Health New Zealand going to get a capital injection in order to reach that target, and, if not, what is the expected deficit now for Health New Zealand at the end of the current financial year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1a7dfc4e67c4dd4a3f66f6d6335b14b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1a7dfc4e67c4dd4a3f66f6d6335b14b\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as I stated earlier, if the member looks at page 38 of the statement of performance expectations, the organisation has a projected deficit of $200\u00A0million. That means that their expenditure will be $200 million more than their revenue. The Government is supporting Health New Zealand to deliver services and for the organisation to spend more than what it has been provided in its revenues so that we can maintain and deliver the services that it needs. If you look at the appropriations the Crown is providing, Crown funding is increasing from $24.296 billion to $26.218 billion. That is a direct almost $2 billion increase in direct appropriations. Other funding from Crown or Crown entities is increasing from $3.1 billion to $3.395\u00A0billion, third-party and other revenue is increasing from $428 million to $889\u00A0million, and there\u2019s a slight reduction in interest received.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EOverall, there is increased revenue for Health New Zealand and increased expenditure being provided for. My expectations are incredibly clear: I want to see Health New Zealand deliver more services for patients, reduce those wait-lists, which ballooned under the last Government\u2014a 6,400\u00A0percent increase in the number of patients waiting more than four months for a first specialist assessment under Labour. That\u2019s their record\u20146,400 percent increase.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7cda334132f46ceb6606757891624ce\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Didn\u2019t they increase spending by two-thirds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229cca129e2b3f4faf8a48740473222cd2\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is the magic from the other side: they appropriate money on Grant Robertson\u2019s magic money tree and then don\u2019t expect any outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272e7a98fdd004257be38798c6730879c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it didn\u2019t exist.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022685f2562643e482cba7c79a83653e6ba\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, apparently it\u2019s in Dunedin at the moment! But the point is: they don\u2019t expect outcomes. They removed the health targets, let wait-lists balloon out of control, allowed patients to languish on wait-lists, and we\u2019re now addressing that with things like Elective Boost so we can actually get patients seen in a more timely manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcb66544024c4ad2a2b1446fb2faa0bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcb66544024c4ad2a2b1446fb2faa0bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Thanks, Mr Chair. The Minister\u2019s answer\u2014we\u2019ve engaged here with a series of questions about the financial situation at Health New Zealand, none of which have been addressed and answered in the Minister\u2019s responses. They\u2019re pretty straight up and down questions about numbers relating to Health New Zealand\u2019s financial performance, not answered in the documents that he refers to. We seem to have pivoted to some matters that are not really related to the Estimates at all. We just want answers for our questions. The New Zealand taxpayer deserves answers about their health budget. We\u2019d really like to know what\u2019s happening with the Health New Zealand deficit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u002299b4f1394c4649419b4bfe1bea6d232a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299b4f1394c4649419b4bfe1bea6d232a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that point of order. If I can draw members\u2019 attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 144/2: \u201COn the Estimates a member may ask a question relative to the expenditure of an appropriation voted the previous year, but may not debate it\u2014discussion must not travel outside the items which are to be appropriated during the current financial year.\u201D If you could contain your questions within that ambit, that would be useful for the committee. But also, I note that many answers that Ministers will give will not satisfy all members as well. I would encourage members to continue to probe if necessary, but if those answers continue to not be to your satisfaction but are still being addressed, can I also encourage members to move on. Also, to note for members as well, there are other Ministers that are available here if there are questions for them as well. Let\u2019s continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022950bcd5872f34945b41a6b93a5e177b0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022950bcd5872f34945b41a6b93a5e177b0\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Speaking to the point of order, if I may. I think the point was not that the question\u2014well, partly that the question wasn\u2019t addressed, but the key point was that the Minister was straying into Budgets of years gone by, which have nothing to do with the Estimates. If the debate that we are to engage in must relate to the current Estimates, then surely the Minister\u2019s responses have to relate to the current Estimates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f67be013319645de8ea70c96d42ad87a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f67be013319645de8ea70c96d42ad87a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I take the member\u2019s point. I would ask Ministers\u2019 responses to also focus on this appropriation as well, as opposed to looking back. Let\u2019s continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u002280a0b94038f54a6095ffa2680f6e53ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280a0b94038f54a6095ffa2680f6e53ae\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. We heard from the Minister of Health about the revenue and expenditure in Health New Zealand; we would really like to hear about the deficit for Health New Zealand and how the deficit from the 2024-25 financial year will be addressed. Is it by revenue from the Vote or by a different capital injection?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8e841e6121e42d5bba730307716fa68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8e841e6121e42d5bba730307716fa68\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m going back to the hauora M\u0101ori appropriation again, seeking answers from the Minister of Health in relation to what new money has eventuated in terms of spend for hauora M\u0101ori services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EGoing back to our babies, our mokopuna, we have set targets around immunisation, commissioned services that were based on pilots that were delivered into communities. How is the direction of travel being achieved in terms of tamariki M\u0101ori, particularly in the first eight months, as to the targets of achievement for the services that have been commissioned\u2014the hauora M\u0101ori appropriation initiatives specifically that the Minister can put on the table that will close the life expectancy gap between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m further wanting to discuss with the Minister in terms of his view of the spend in maternal health and the access of pregnant w\u0101hine to lead maternity caregivers, and how is that direction of travel and the spend going into community services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EThen one further question: for kaupapa M\u0101ori mental health youth services, how are we treading in terms of both the funding that has gone into those services and what targets may have been set for our young people to be accessing those kaupapa M\u0101ori hauora services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a hauora M\u0101ori p\u0101tai for our babies, our mokopuna; our mothers accessing maternity services; and then further for youth mental health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u002225df869fe3de416eab22762e08cbf989\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225df869fe3de416eab22762e08cbf989\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In terms of hauora M\u0101ori services, there\u2019s been an increase in the appropriation. Again, the statement of performance expectations highlights total revenue increasing from $484\u00A0million to $555\u00A0million. The expenditure is projected to be $555\u00A0million in the Budget 2025-26 year. One of the key initiatives\u2014and the member touched on it\u2014was in relation to the immunisation target that we have set. Of course, there\u2019s been a significant decline in the number of children who have been immunised at two years of age, from 92\u00A0percent down to 77\u00A0percent in 2023. We are starting to see that result start to turn around, which is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EProgrammes such as Immunising Our Tamariki are central to doing just that. I\u2019m advised that, as of 31 May 2025, more than 125,000 immunisations had been undertaken by hauora M\u0101ori partners across the country through that programme\u201412,952 of them in May alone. That is a significant initiative, which was launched by the previous Minister of Health, Dr Shane Reti, to help increase immunisations amongst our M\u0101ori population. Ultimately, for us to meet the target of 95\u00A0percent of two-year-olds being immunised, we have to ensure we increase the rate of immunisations amongst our M\u0101ori communities. That\u2019s where that appropriation is so critical to help and support initiatives that help drive that increased immunisation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EWe are seeing increased immunisation rates within our M\u0101ori population. It\u2019s increased, I\u2019m advised. In 30 June last year, 63.3\u00A0percent of M\u0101ori twoyearolds had been fully immunised. That increased to approximately 68\u00A0percent at the middle of this year. Clearly, that\u2019s a long way behind other populations, and that\u2019s where this programme is so important to address that critically important health issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u0022252695043d8641899adb977ce1907cff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022252695043d8641899adb977ce1907cff\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, and thank you to that member for questions around mental health. This Government is committed, through its mental health plan, to delivering faster access to support, growing the front-line workforce, and a better crisis response. We are turning the corner and seeing our mental health plan working\u2014almost 10 percent more front-line mental health roles since coming into office\u2014and we know people are accessing specialist services by well over the target of 80 percent in three weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EIn fact, this Government set the first targets for this country ever in mental health\u2014five mental health targets. Three of them are around faster access. One specifically the member referenced for our young people: accessing specialist services. The target we set is 80 percent to access specialist services in three weeks. The latest data for quarter three of the financial year 2024-25 is a national average of 82.4 percent. There was a question more specifically for the access rate for M\u0101ori, and I\u2019m happy to report M\u0101ori are accessing our services faster than the national average, at 84.9 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u00228e10300f31e2467ebcc51d2d8969b3a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e10300f31e2467ebcc51d2d8969b3a6\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, if I can please then ask the Minister for Mental Health, just following on from those questions about under-19-year-olds\u2014the Mental Health and Wellbeing Commission has got data showing that there are worsening trends in youth access to specialist mental health services\u2014I\u2019m sure he\u2019s aware of it\u2014to March 2025, where, for GP referrals for under-19s, nearly 30 percent were declined. That was up from nearly one in four last year. Is the mental health Minister now saying that that has improved\u2014and I\u2019m speaking here about specialist mental health services, not about accessing services for more complex needs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u00225e1fe81ad3b041a991623c03a4011f80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225e1fe81ad3b041a991623c03a4011f80\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the first thing I\u2019d say is the reason that we can actually measure the access to mental health services in New Zealand is because this Government has put targets in, and not only for primary mental health and addiction services but for specialist services as well. There\u2019s nothing more accountable to myself, as the mental health Minister, and this Government than actually setting New Zealand\u2019s first targets for access to mental health services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EI can report that the access has increased. If you look back at specialist services for under-25s, in quarter one of the financial year 2024-25, the access rate was 72.8 percent were being seen within three weeks. In the following quarter, quarter two, that went up to 77.1 percent\u2014so from 72.8 percent to 77.1 percent\u2014and in the latest data we have for quarter three, it even goes up again, to 77.5 percent. We\u2019re due to release soon the quarter four data, and I\u2019m looking forward to that, because for the first time, we\u2019ll be able to have a trend line of the last 12 months. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be very clear: in Budget 2025, this Government invested more into the mental health and addiction ring-fence. Broadly, we\u2019ll go from $2.6 billion to $2.8 billion, and what we have learnt in mental health from previous Governments is that it\u2019s not just about how much money you announce. It\u2019s actually ensuring that you get the outcomes from that investment, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s important that we have these targets to drive performance forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022009630b23e774e26bf3583fcaf23eb32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022009630b23e774e26bf3583fcaf23eb32\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m wondering then if the Minister can explain in Official Information Act response 00092305, released on 11 July 2025, why the numbers are showing that the number of young people being declined and not being referred from general practice services has risen under his watch rather than declined? Is this because he is measuring different things, and is he prepared to provide a response to that question, which is from his own officials?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u002226cee7f0f68a4697abeec13ccb2bf7c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226cee7f0f68a4697abeec13ccb2bf7c0\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think you\u2019ll agree that when you look at the reasons for people being declined, more often than not it is because there is a more appropriate service than the service that the individual has been referred to. I\u2019d only look to investments into programmes like Gumboot Friday: an extra 10,000 young people seen, an extra 30,000 sessions. In fact, if we look at the investment: an extra $5 million into the mental health innovation fund that funded organisations like the Rotorua Youth One Stop Shop and other youth services as well. That\u2019s why we have more services offering more timely access to support to young Kiwis in a time of need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00222528e9250d454d5b8b031079d53468b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222528e9250d454d5b8b031079d53468b2\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019d like to take the opportunity again to go deeper on another topic in back and forth with the Minister of Health in relation to the affordability of general practice. I\u2019d like to start with the findings of the last New Zealand Health Survey that shows that one in six New Zealanders have missed going to the general practitioner because of the cost of a visit. My question to the Minister is: what initiatives does the Government have under way to reduce the cost of general practice visits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed2047da6343435f87da1886e37f582c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed2047da6343435f87da1886e37f582c\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I acknowledge that for many New Zealanders it has become too hard to see a GP, and for many New Zealanders the time to see a GP has become extraordinary, and that has impacted on the access that they have. There\u2019s a number of things the Government\u2019s doing to improve access to general practice. A significant part of this Budget is aligned with supporting general practice in a number of ways: increased capitation funding, increased funding to support practices to make them more accessible, performance-based funding to improve immunisation outcomes, and $26 million in additional funding to help GPs keep fees capped for community services card holders and those on low incomes, and to ensure those under 14 continue to receive free GP access. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThe Budget also continues to support the Very Low Cost Access Scheme, which supports many thousands of New Zealanders to have access to lower-cost general practice. The Budget has a number of targeted initiatives to continue to support those who need help the most: through the community services cards, through the children under the age of 14, through the Very Low Cost Access Scheme to make sure that they are able to access their GP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EAlso, we acknowledge the fact that we need to speed up access to general practice and make sure that people have more timely access to a general practitioner, and that\u2019s where the Primary Care Tactical Action Plan, announced as part of the Budget, has a range of initiatives to support primary practice, including around workforce, helping to get more doctors working in primary care, more nurse practitioners working in primary care, more nurses working in primary care; helping to advance the education of nurses to become nurse practitioners; and getting overseas-trained doctors who have passed the New Zealand registration examinations exam funded placements to be able to start work in primary practice. This is all about increasing access and making primary care more accessible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Sam Uffindell mentioned earlier, we\u2019ve also invested in urgent and after-hours care services, which we\u2019ll be starting to roll out in coming months, as well as the new 24/7 digital access to general practice, which allows people to be able to book an online GP appointment any time, anywhere around the country. We\u2019ve had over 20,000 consultations in the first couple of months that that\u2019s been live. The numbers are increasing every single week. That is helping people get more timely access to general practice. Of course, that comes with subsidies for those who need access the most so that they are able to access that service at a lower cost so they can get a more timely service. Of course, those subsidies help them to access that at a lower cost as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00223821f58b3ed644c0b35290da7da7b105\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223821f58b3ed644c0b35290da7da7b105\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. If I may just conclude these set of questions on primary care costs, or on general practice costs. Will any of the initiatives that the Minister listed bring down the cost of seeing a GP during this cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u00220e4347cf5cf54f5d8040c0776868af57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e4347cf5cf54f5d8040c0776868af57\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I outlined in my answer, there\u2019s a number of initiatives that we do to provide lower-cost access for New Zealanders: those community services card holders, to make sure they can access GPs at much lower cost than non - community services card holders; the Very Low Cost Access scheme, which has been in place for many years, that continues to support access for many New Zealanders living in low socioeconomic neighbourhoods and communities to be able to access lower-cost general practice. As I said, the 24/7 digital GP service has subsidies attached to it so that people can access that service in a timely manner at a low cost if they have a community services card, or if they\u2019ve got a child, they can access that service at a much lower cost than if they don\u2019t. This is about increasing access to those services and also supporting those critical ways of making sure we can provide access at lower cost for those who need it the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u002251b5308e671441828d9e48dee7b4142d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251b5308e671441828d9e48dee7b4142d\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Is it acceptable, in a cost of living crisis, to pay $94 for a standard GP appointment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a4b1b9cf958d4e5d867ef9f131972df2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a4b1b9cf958d4e5d867ef9f131972df2\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the vast, vast majority of New Zealanders don\u2019t pay that much money to see a GP\u2014and the misinformation being put out by the Labour Party, when the vast majority of patients pay far less than that to see a GP. Ultimately, what I\u2019m focused on is making sure that those who need it the most have access to those subsidies which are in place: community services card holders, Very Low Cost Access schemes, making sure that children under the age of 14 can access a GP for free\u2014those are critically important services which we continue to support as a Government so people can get access to those services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThe reality is that too many New Zealanders are waiting too long to see a GP, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re investing in our workforce, and also in digital solutions, so people can get that access where they are, across the country, anytime, anywhere. I acknowledge the issue that the member is raising, and I\u2019d point to her record when GP fees continued to increase when she was the Minister of Health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EUltimately, what I\u2019m focused on is improving access and fixing the problems she left behind\u2014making sure we can reduce the wait time to see a GP. That\u2019s why we\u2019re putting in place a target to actually ensure New Zealanders can see a GP in a timely manner. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing in the workforce. That\u2019s why we\u2019re making sure those overseas-trained doctors can actually practise here in New Zealand. That\u2019s why we\u2019re training nurses to become nurse practitioners to work in primary care. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve got the 24/7 digital service. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing in urgent and afterhours care. By the way, when she was the Minister of Health, she was pretty happy with Kenepuru after hours potentially being closed. Well, we\u2019ve put in place an urgent, after-hours care service so that we can actually maintain and enhance access to urgent and after-hour care services up and down our country. That is what we are doing as a country. When they were in Government, the 24/7 service in East Auckland was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a688e4cae6924765b5021590cdda7329\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I want the discussion to focus on this appropriation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294f88af01013469da8c069af8a790d8f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: The appropriation enhances access to urgent and after-hours care services, which were diminished under the previous Government. We\u2019re investing in front-line services so that more New Zealanders get the access they need in a timely and quality manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcac095697f644e981e6635c6da40f49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcac095697f644e981e6635c6da40f49\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ve got three questions about primary care, and I am hoping I get answers, not political rhetoric. My first question is: is the risk structure of the capitation funding going to include addressing health inequities along ethnicities, and, if not, why not? This is something that\u2019s future looking. The second question is: does the Minister accept that costs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f4ceb61eca74a5da3695e7c49716523\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you repeat the first question again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f053d32afd3465f9c841e16b586f825\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Will the restructure of the capitation funding model include addressing health inequities along ethnic lines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EThe second question I have is whether the Minister believes that cost is a barrier to accessing a GP and whether any new initiatives he has brought forward will lower the cost of seeing a GP face to face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u00223551cab0e89e455a9dd0f8b8bada99ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223551cab0e89e455a9dd0f8b8bada99ec\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I thank the member for his questions. In terms of the re-weighting of capitation, the factors that will be considered will be age, gender, deprivation, multi-morbidity, and rurality. Those factors are critically important to ensure that the capitation funding is targeting on the basis of need. It is critically important to ensure that all New Zealanders can get the access to those services that they need. That work is now under way by the Ministry of Health and Health New Zealand, with the intention for the re-weighting of capitation to flow through into capitation from 1 July next year. Of course, that needs to go through the Primary Health Organisation Services Agreement Amendment Protocol negotiations with the sector, which will no doubt take place in the first half of next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EIn terms of the member\u2019s other questions, ultimately, there\u2019s a number of initiatives in this Budget to support access to primary care to ensure those patients and those communities who need access at lower cost can access primary care at a lower cost. That\u2019s why we have the community services card, That\u2019s why we have the Very Low Cost Access scheme. That\u2019s why we have free GP visits for under14-year-olds. That\u2019s why we\u2019re investing in the 24/7 digital service, which also has subsidies applied to those patients so they\u2019re able to continue to get timely and quality access to the healthcare they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002274c82f4902bf43a183ceaf6d03981a4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274c82f4902bf43a183ceaf6d03981a4c\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Just following on from that, does the Minister of Health accept that cultural safety is clinically relevant for patient outcomes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022cccc25cf05f942789e31674c4346a0a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cccc25cf05f942789e31674c4346a0a9\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, this is getting into very much a sort of\u2014it\u2019s gone from the Budget to more of a philosophical debate here in terms of policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ebd15962135458ea372bcd3df41abca\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I think this is highly relevant to the funding decisions that the Minister\u2019s made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b24d37f400ba49bd996e579eaa25bd68\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: How is it relevant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c993016b10ce46478237a33d3b4f6ecc\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Because the Minister has changed structures and funding streams that deal with cultural safety. My question is: is that clinically relevant for patient outcomes, in the Minister\u2019s view? It\u2019s a simple yes or no question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206cd6589ab8e479785d6fa5d3780a3bf\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, ultimately, the role of our health workforces is to ensure that they are providing services which meet the needs of a variety of cultures who live in New Zealand, and a variety of ethnicities. Yes, there is a significantly important role that our health workforces play when it comes to providing those services that they do on a daily basis. I think the member\u2019s referring to a consultation document that\u2019s out under way with regards to the Health Practitioners Competence Assurance Act. Ultimately, there has been a submission process; those submissions are being considered. Once Cabinet has made decisions, ultimately, those will then be announced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u00225cd1802c1d504d2782143a406097a295\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225cd1802c1d504d2782143a406097a295\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Further questions for the Minister for Mental Health\u2014he\u2019s raised the fact that referrals might not be being made to specialist mental health services because there may be better places for them to get treatment. I\u2019m interested to know if he\u2019s talking about the community sector, and, if so, what is he doing, and is he satisfied that there is sufficient funding in that sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI refer to what is happening in Waikato, for example, where there\u2019s bed locking happening at the hospital because people are reaching crisis point\u2014they cannot access community services. They are reaching crisis point in the hospital and then they are unable to be discharged because there are no community services available for them to be able to access, so they\u2019re taking up beds. My question to the Minister for Mental Health: is that the type of community sector/service he is referring to, or what specifically is he referring to for specialist mental health services, because Gumboot Friday is clearly not that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003ESecondly, is he satisfied that the Waikato situation is providing value for money? Thirdly, what does he say to community providers who were promised to be able to access funding through the mental health innovation fund, who still have been locked out of the funding because of the cofunding requirement? Is that building the community sector and providing those alternative treatment sources for those not referred onwards by GPs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u00220edf08ba6eda49caa419c774dc89bc8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220edf08ba6eda49caa419c774dc89bc8a\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I have a two-part question to two different Ministers to go back to primary care to discuss with the Minister around the revision of capitation funding and how those decisions were made to focus on the multimorbidities, on the gender, on the rurality, all of that. That came from, I believe, an analysis across 18 primary health organisations. Are you able to give us more of a fulsome explanation as to how you landed in that space and how the Minister and his officials believe that that will reduce or improve health equity and the outcomes of those high-need populations that you are seeking to improve access for primary care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EThen my part two question is to the Minister for Mental Health in terms of child and youth mental health through Health New Zealand and those particularly that are sitting within the main system\u2014not funded services. Child and youth mental health have heard from staff whereby there are long waitlists at the moment for those families who are trying to access both\u2014I think this is more of a northern region thing that I\u2019ve heard, where there are challenges in terms of accessing. The wait-lists are long, Minister. Are there any intentions, thinking future-focused, how we can have an injection of support to reduce wait times for families, which can be up to six months waiting for that oneonone support from child and youth mental health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff82354675124858a3700f448f5e52c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff82354675124858a3700f448f5e52c7\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. In terms of the re-weighting of capitation, effectively, the work the Ministry of Health and Health New Zealand are doing, yes, has analysed\u2014and there\u2019s been a piece of work done which does analyse\u2014practices in a range of primary health organisations to look at need. Decisions have been made in relation to what the factors are, which will go into that re-weighting, as I outlined earlier in relation to the question from your colleague.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EWhat this will mean for practices is that those practices which have patients who have a higher degree of deprivation or multimorbidity or rurality is they will receive extra revenue which will allow them to be able to support their patients. For some clinics, that may mean the ability to employ more staff; they may use that to reduce the fees; they may do a range of things to improve access for patients to services which help support the patients that they have on their books in those clinics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EI speak to many of my rural colleagues in particular who talk about the difficulty in rural communities accessing their general practitioner. This is critically important for our rural communities to increase access by re-weighting that funding to support those clinics to be able to\u2014whether it\u2019s hire the staff, pay the GP more, extend the hours; whatever it takes to be able to improve the access in those rural communities. I think that is where the re-weighting of capitation\u2014which has been called for for a very long time\u2014is going to have some of the biggest difference across New Zealand once that\u2019s rolled out and which I\u2019m looking forward to delivering next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u002299e731ab57f7464ca46a2936f23ed2f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299e731ab57f7464ca46a2936f23ed2f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019d like to turn to investment in the health system infrastructure. The Minister received a briefing that was directed at identifying if the health system had the capacity to particularly meet demand for surgeries and planned care. That briefing said that the health system was short by 500 beds in Te Manawa Taki and Central North Island hospitals were short 107 beds. In this region, the Central region, hospitals were short 55 beds. Te Waipounamu were short 76 beds, and the Northern region was short 209 beds. In that region, 120 new beds were created by the building and opening of the T\u014Dtara Haumaru Hospital on the North Shore of Auckland by our last Government. I would like to ask the Minister: what progress is being made now to address that bed deficit so that we can meet today\u2019s demands, much less the future\u2019s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u002247b875853fa24a43825e9413818f1853\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247b875853fa24a43825e9413818f1853\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just want to respond to some of the questions directed to me as Minister for Mental Health. There was one question quite rightly looking at the Government\u2019s focus on how we can support faster access to timely mental health support, and the question was using an example of the Northern region, which I think is a very important question. The first thing I\u2019d say is that it has been the focus of this Government by bringing back the four regions within Health New Zealand, we have regionalised Health New Zealand, because we believe that, actually, rather than centralising, we want to return decision making back as close to the front line as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EWhat that means in mental health is when you look at the mental health targets that this Government set for the first time in New Zealand, if you take the target around specialist mental health services\u2014a target of 80 percent of people to access specialist mental health and addiction services within three weeks\u2014I\u2019ve always been very clear and said quite publicly, as mental health Minister, I\u2019m not going to be happy just with the national average. Why I say that is now we have set the targets, we are measuring against them, and we are reporting on the data. We can actually drill down to the 20 health districts. We can actually drill down to urban and rural, to other population groups, and young people as well. Why that is important is I\u2019ve worked with the deputy chief executives who head up the four regions. They are now called regional directors, and they report on the data for their regions and are required to put action plans in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EMy expectation this year\u2014the $2.8 billion we will spend on the mental health and addiction ringfence funding is for areas or regions that are not delivering to that expectation of a three-week wait time, then investment goes into those areas to bring them up to the desired performance level. One way of doing that is bringing in the community sector, and I\u2019d just like to link in Ingrid Leary\u2019s question about what the Government is doing to support the community sector for mental health. We call it the \u201Cfunded sector\u201D. Already\u2014the question was around the mental health innovation fund\u2014the first-year tranche funded MATES in Construction, Youthline, the Sir John Kirwan Foundation, Rotorua YOSS, Mental Health Foundation, Wellington City Mission, the National Collective of Independent Women\u2019s Refuges, and a number of other community organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EThe question was around why we went for match funding. Well, I just put it to you\u2014that fund was $5 million, and because of the match fund, that is now $10 million this year. We\u2019re just to announce year two; that will be another $10 million. We get the ability through match fund to deliver twice the activity and scale that up as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EThe member did, quite rightly, ask the question around an important issue where we have people on our mental health inpatient facilities that might be clinically ready to be discharged but there, potentially, is not the support services there. That is another task I\u2019ve given the regional directors to look at\u2014the occupancy rates of their inpatient facilities within their respective regions, and to ensure that we build out the system, that there is step-down care that we can discharge people into the community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003EBecause this is an Estimates debate, I\u2019d point to Budget 2025, where we not only invested an extra $51\u00A0million to our forensic acute inpatient beds for Health New Zealand but funded a number of community and NGO beds in the community so people can be referred out into step-down care to increase that flow into our inpatient facilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e936fa761e5b4eab9c2ffbca40f16c5f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e936fa761e5b4eab9c2ffbca40f16c5f\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the previous speaker for the question in relation to infrastructure and I acknowledge the infrastructure deficit, which is a challenge that we\u2019ve inherited, but is also something which\u2014if you look at the average age of health infrastructure, I believe the average age of health buildings owned by Health New Zealand is 47 years. This is a challenge across Governments, whether it\u2019s in roads or hospitals or schools\u2014the need to invest more in our health infrastructure to make sure that we have the capacity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why, as Minister of Health, we have released the Health Infrastructure Plan, which outlines the need to invest, but we also need to make sure we\u2019re investing quickly. That\u2019s why in this year\u2019s Budget we allocated funding for modular wards to be able to be built rapidly at a number of hospitals. We\u2019ve announced two of those hospitals where those will be built\u2014one at Hawke\u2019s Bay and the other at Nelson Hospital. This allows us to actually build that capacity quickly whilst we are also doing the work on the business cases for the additional long-term investments that are required. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve obviously, in this Budget, also funded the Nelson Hospital redevelopment. There is planning work under way in Hawke\u2019s Bay, in Tauranga, in Palmerston North, and, ultimately, we need to continue to build that pipeline of health infrastructure projects that can continue to be delivered so that patients up and down our country in our health workforce have modern, reliable infrastructure which supports patients, supports our workforce, so all New Zealanders have access to the timely, quality healthcare that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00226f1bedb470334077821c2ec7ab7a7d4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f1bedb470334077821c2ec7ab7a7d4b\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I wonder if the Minister could elaborate on some of those points. Why is it that the Health Infrastructure Plan did not set out those initiatives to have the modular hospital beds created and the number\u2014why didn\u2019t it state the bed deficit? Why didn\u2019t the infrastructure plan name the number of beds to be added this year or in the next five years or in the next 10 years? In fact, there was more specificity in the Health Infrastructure Plan around the building of car parks than there was around the building of hospital beds. Can the Minister elaborate what new beds are coming in the next year or two or five?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022714bdf0938244d1084feb700f119bf13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022714bdf0938244d1084feb700f119bf13\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as I\u2019ve just outlined in my answer, the Budget funded modular bed wards are to be built in a number of hospitals so that we can provide extra capacity. Business cases are under way on a number of major builds, which will outline how many beds will be required and how many will be delivered and, ultimately, the capacity and services that will be delivered in those hospitals. That is what we are doing with the Health Infrastructure Plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003EThis Government didn\u2019t inherit a health infrastructure plan. We have had to put a health infrastructure plan together. When the last Government put Health New Zealand together, they thought that they could just jam 20 district health boards together, change the letterhead, and think, \u201CJob done.\u201D We are now having to do the work of actually delivering the infrastructure, the services, getting on top of the wait-lists, making sure that we\u2019re actually delivering for patients. That is what this Government is doing so that all New Zealanders can have access to the timely, quality services and healthcare that they need. That\u2019s the work we\u2019re doing. I\u2019m proud of the work that\u2019s been delivered. This Budget delivers on that, but there is so much more work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1629d076a254ef3a5fb991d3680fafd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1629d076a254ef3a5fb991d3680fafd\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E The Health Infrastructure Plan, I note, doesn\u2019t specifically talk about what is going to happen regarding the reduced dementia and psychogeriatric beds which were taken out of the Dunedin Hospital. You are on record, Minister, saying that that\u2019s because the beds are better in the community, and I don\u2019t actually disagree with the philosophy. However, what work has been done under your Government to create those beds in Dunedin so that those people needing beds, who will no longer be able to get them in the new hospital, will be able to get the care they need in the community? What specific steps have you done?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u0022f16ee17081aa42979b26b2332a47d698\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f16ee17081aa42979b26b2332a47d698\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E There\u2019s a range of work under way. Ultimately, the priority is to get the new hospital built. That\u2019s my priority as Minister of Health: getting the new hospital built. We\u2019re very focused on doing that. Once that construction contract is awarded, once we get that under way, there\u2019s obviously a lot of work to be done around making sure we\u2019re implementing, putting the models of care in place. That is my expectation of Health New Zealand\u2014that they\u2019re doing that work so that when it goes live in 2031\u2014I believe is the time line\u2014their work has been done before then to deliver those models of care in the community or in the hospital so that patients in Dunedin get access to the timely, quality healthcare that they need and deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002273c4017a13244f77881ceb26838bee24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273c4017a13244f77881ceb26838bee24\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Can I just confirm, then, Minister, that when you said to the Otago Daily Times that work was under way to provide those beds in the community, in fact, nothing had been done by your Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u00224b249d310d31417f86b9b5408b6d6dea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b249d310d31417f86b9b5408b6d6dea\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Work is under way, and that work will continue to be done by Health New Zealand. As I said, my expectations are very clear that as that hospital is being constructed, that work around making sure it is operational, that the models of care are delivered\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002210e7d066c3aa49ddb36e963ec80be5af\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e7d066c3aa49ddb36e963ec80be5af\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Chair. Sorry, I think the Minister of Health misunderstand my question. It was the work in the community, not the work in the hospital. If he could answer that, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022265d52c3ebab4d329750362e043feefe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022265d52c3ebab4d329750362e043feefe\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Members, the Minister\u2019s time in the chair has now come to an end. We now have the Minister of Justice\u2014you being the Minister of Justice. The Minister is available to speak to that portfolio from 8.30 p.m. to 9.30 p.m. Do we have someone from the Justice Committee?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ccd4adb56824a96a69b71b083f76945\u0022\u003EJustice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022 data-id=\u002217cf3c18f240471fb3677db632fccedd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217cf3c18f240471fb3677db632fccedd\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (Deputy Chairperson of the Justice Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise as deputy chair of the Justice Committee to give a quick overview of the Estimates that we heard through 16 to 19 June. We heard from a number of the Ministers\u2014the Hon Paul Goldsmith, the Hon Nicole McKee, the Hon Karen Chhour, the Hon Mark Mitchell, the Hon Casey Costello, and the Hon Judith Collins. We had Votes in Vote Serious Fraud, Vote Police, Vote Parliamentary Counsel, Vote Justice, Vote Courts, Vote Corrections, and Vote Attorney-General. As you can see, it\u2019s a very busy committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022\u003EThe one thing that came out of that scrutiny week that we sent back to the House\u2014I\u2019ll just touch on a few of the main topics and the main points. As we heard through the Corrections Estimates, some major issues were raised around infrastructure, around the front-line staff, and around remand. These were the main topics that came from there. In the Courts Estimates, we talked around timeliness and, again, infrastructure projects. We heard through the Police portfolio that the big concerns there were around meth use and around investing in the beat teams that we\u2019ve now got on the front line around the country. We heard about recruiting issues and also the $480 million of additional funding through the Budget for front-line policing efforts. Within Justice, we heard about the response to retail crime and about the electoral reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022\u003EI might just kick off a question to the Minister. The biggest issue there was around legal aid. It\u2019s the largest single item in Vote Justice. Legal aid is allocated over $328\u00A0million for that appropriation, which was a 2.3 percent increase on the previous year. Probably, my question to the Minister is: why is legal aid so important, and why is the Government funding increased levels?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1a2df60a04b40c4bbac436590d1702f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1a2df60a04b40c4bbac436590d1702f\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Since the Associate Minister of Justice is in the chair, I actually want to start by asking a question to the Minister around court timeliness, particularly around some of the latest data coming out of the High Court regarding the time for scheduled trials. When we\u2019re looking at various parts of the country, Auckland\u2019s average wait time is 486 days, and then in terms of some of the measures for court timeliness, we\u2019re also seeing that High Court and criminal trials in particular are not performing particularly well or meeting those targets. I just want to check with the Minister: in the Budget, what areas is she prioritising, or what areas are actually being funded to ensure that we do see that being reduced?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u00226c89f05222174e92aa611b4dcaaef1ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c89f05222174e92aa611b4dcaaef1ce\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the deputy chair of the Justice Committee, thank you for your introduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003ELegal aid is at $328 million in there, and why is it important? It\u2019s really important that people are given access to justice. It also means that they have the ability to get representation and also advice, especially when they go through a court or a justice system. It doesn\u2019t matter whether it\u2019s criminal, whether it\u2019s civil, or whether it\u2019s family. We need everybody to be able to access the courts, to be able to get the right information, and, where necessary, also the right representation, and we want to make sure that there is an ability for people to be able to access that. But that has gone up recently, and in response we, in turn, have increased the volume of money that will be going there towards legal aid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003ETo the member from the Green Party, when we\u2019re talking about timeliness in the High Court, yes, I think what is important to note is that for the first time our timeliness measures are actually being put in place around the courts. For example, in the District Court, District Court Chief Judge Taumaunu has for the first time implemented some timeliness in the District Court. Now, I know that you\u2019ve asked about the High Court, but we are making some improvements. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EFor example, with category 1 cases, we expect 90 percent of those cases to be disposed of within\u00A0six months. With category 2, we are also looking at 90 percent of cases to be disposed of within\u00A0nine months. Category 3 has the judge-alone trials, and 90 percent of those cases are to be\u00A0disposed of within nine months, and for category 3 jury trials, they expect 90 percent to be disposed\u00A0of within 15\u00A0months. These are quite high aspirational targets for the District Court, but I\u2019m pleased to note that we are getting there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the High Court criminal cases, the number of new cases has actually increased by 10 percent over the last year, and at the same time as we have completed over 12 percent, the average trial took one day longer than one year ago and four days longer than five years ago. It means that the court\u2019s workload has increased, even if the total numbers are currently similar\u2014that is, 3\u00A0percent. I\u2019m kind of happy with where we have landed with the High Court criminal cases, because while we have an increase in cases, we are still disposing of them, although we can always improve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWith the High Court civil cases, there was a 10 percent increase in the number of new cases that have been filed over the last year. Timeliness has improved, however, suggesting that the increase in new cases is driven by short-turnaround cases like, for example, new insolvency cases, which were making up 30 percent of new cases over the last year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWe are tracking what\u2019s happening in the High Court and also looking to put those targets on the District Court, and the timeliness improvements are slow but demonstrable. We\u2019re getting there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022c747dc89c74b47a69cc1657fb6e9119c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c747dc89c74b47a69cc1657fb6e9119c\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Seeing as we have the Associate Minister of Justice in the chair, I thought I\u2019d follow on, on the theme around stresses on the court system. I do this against the background of a couple of documents. One of the most critical ones is the Chief Justice\u2019s report, which outlines some quite strong concerns around resourcing for the courts. It does it in essentially two themes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EOne is it, essentially, points out that the workload of the courts has gone up along with the New Zealand population, but judicial resource hasn\u2019t. I\u2019m aware of recent moves to increase\u2014by a very small amount\u2014the number of judges in New Zealand, but it may be that the Minister wants to address whether we need to have a substantial increase in our appropriation for the judiciary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe other thread in that report is the inadequacy of the court infrastructure\u2014noting, I think it was, Whang\u0101rei, which is a busy court but has one courtroom. The bottleneck there isn\u2019t judicial resource as much as simply having the courtroom available to both administer remands and what have you and run trials. Obviously, there\u2019s been some deferrals\u2014Waitakere and Rotorua courts, which are both recognised as not fit for purpose and in states of severe dilapidation, and what\u2019s going to happen there? This is a resourcing of the courts problem, which is a justice issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe second document, which I think has been relatively recently released, is the Cabinet paper on the basis of which Cabinet approved the development of new offences, including coward punch, slavery offences, and some shoplifting stuff as well. But it\u2019s those serious offences that I\u2019m interested in, because one of the challenges that justice officials pointed out is that with things like three strikes, coward punches, sentencing reforms and so on, this is actually going to increase pressure, particularly on the higher courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EI think this is the really important point about the justice sector\u2014that there are interlocking pressures which come together: judicial pressures, resource pressures, and legislative reform. I guess I\u2019m really interested in the Minister responding in terms of how the system as a whole will address these resource constraints.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u00226630310ecd2348b4825dab4219e10921\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226630310ecd2348b4825dab4219e10921\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Thank you to the member for your questions. There was quite a lot in there. I\u2019ll try and cover what I can, but please ask me if I miss one out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EYes, we are looking at an increase in what\u2019s happening in our court system, who\u2019s coming through. The increase is going to come about by the amount of law and order initiatives that this side of the House have implemented to hold people accountable for their crimes and their actions against our communities. In order to address this, we have already looked to implement different changes in personnel by increasing certain areas of staffing to assist. An example of this will be the Family Court Associates that we implemented and have increased in volume. They have made a huge difference in what\u2019s happening in the Family Court. Their initiatives and what they can help judges with is actually enabling judges to get back some of their judge time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThis is also seen across some of the other courts that we have made changes in. One of the proposals that\u2019s currently at the Justice Committee is to implement three more additional community magistrates. That, in turn, is expected to free up at least, I think, 5.2 fulltime-equivalent judges\u2019 time. When we talk about community magistrates\u2014who not do not necessarily need to be qualified lawyers\u2014we\u2019re also ensuring that there is going to be a Chief Community Magistrate that ensures that the community magistrates are trained and rostered to the appropriate cases. That will be led by a judge once it goes through the system. We also have two extra District Court judges coming in for sentencing changes, and we\u2019re actively considering what else might need to be done\u2014where we should put more emphasis or more personnel and where it\u2019s needed. We\u2019ll be still taking advice on that, and there may still be more to come there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EIn answer to the member\u2019s questions about if we increase the workload in the courts, how are we going to utilise or increase those within the courts to do the work, the judicial resource has gone up both in the High Court and District Court with the community magistrates and Family Court Associates. We\u2019ve also got the coroners\u2019 assistance, which is making a massive dent in the timeliness in that we are in the process of reducing those times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThe member also asked about the courts and what we are doing to help or to make things go faster, because some of those delays are quite large. We made some legislative changes for audiovisual links (AVL) and we currently have just received a report on the AVL system, and we\u2019re looking at what we need to do to implement it, to make it work. This is work that we\u2019ve done with the judiciary as well, because they\u2019re the ones that are going to have to utilise it. We\u2019ve got to make sure that when we implement it, fund it, and get it in there, it\u2019s done in such a way that the judiciary can use it\u2014as well as Corrections and Police where necessary as well. There\u2019s that work going on in the background there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EYou spoke about the Waitakere courts and the Rotorua District and High Court and M\u0101ori Land Court. Yes, we are prepared and ready to go. We need the funding. We did go to the international investment summit, and we promoted Waitakere and Rotorua courts. We got some really good feedback there. We are open to any form of funding with the Government, and we\u2019re looking at different ideas. We need to go back and have a Budget bid in future Budgets to help us with this, but, ultimately, it\u2019s actually going to come down to what is going to be the better way to invest that\u2019s going to be certain for those communities and have a really good outcome. We\u2019re still working on that. However, from our view, we feel that we\u2019ve got a really good case where we\u2019re about ready to go. We just need to get some partners on board, and we have been talking with some in that respect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EIf there\u2019s anything else, I invite the member to ask me some more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u0022eaddd33ece8f4d6cbb8d2ac38e5acc1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eaddd33ece8f4d6cbb8d2ac38e5acc1d\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, in this Budget, under capital spending, there is more money allocated towards building more prisons, when you look at how many people are serviced within our corrections system, than there is money going into new hospitals and hospital upgrades and into new classrooms and new schools, despite the fact that healthcare and education are far better methods of reducing and preventing harm in our communities. So how does the Minister and her Government justify continuing an endless pipeline of people into prisons when recidivism rates show that sending people to prisons does not result in safer communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002257073ad1129245f7ba8b8d846a572871\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257073ad1129245f7ba8b8d846a572871\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as much as I can answer that, because corrections isn\u2019t the justice portfolio; it\u2019s under the corrections portfolio\u2014well, no, it actually has its own portfolio and its own budget as well. But what I can say is that this Government makes no apologies for holding people to account for bad behaviour. We do not believe that people going about doing whatever they want when it\u2019s criminal, when it\u2019s violent, when it\u2019s taking other people\u2019s property\u2014it\u2019s not right. To say that we shouldn\u2019t invest in making sure that people are held accountable, we on this side of the House think that is wrong, because showing accountability actually can change attitudes. It can say to people, \u201CWe don\u2019t accept the fact that you can come out here and take what you want that you didn\u2019t earn from people that have worked hard and there be no consequence.\u201D A consequence, if necessary, will be prison, especially if it\u2019s recidivist. Quite frankly, if people who are recidivist offenders\u2014especially violent recidivist offenders\u2014are not out in society creating more victims but are in corrections, perhaps getting rehabilitated, then that is also a positive outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u002253c2470532ce41eab81786e88c7e4671\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253c2470532ce41eab81786e88c7e4671\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I actually just want to pick up from the question my colleague Tamatha Paul asked, and I\u2019m interested in the Minister\u2019s answer, because in Aotearoa New Zealand alone, data from the Department of Corrections as well as the ministry itself says that about 44 to 49 percent of released prisoners are reincarcerated within three to four years, with high rates among young male M\u0101ori and repeat offenders. It also says that there\u2019s very little evidence that suggests longer sentences\u2014they fail to deter repeat offending and may even increase risk of creating a criminal learning environment. This data is backed up by Australia, Canada, the US, the UK, Ireland, to name a few. Some of the things that have consistently shown improvement to recidivism are through community-based rehabilitation. We also see factors like court delays, overcrowded prisons, and insufficient rehabilitation further undermine the deterrence and rehabilitation effect of longer sentences. That is not just what we think; that is the evidence that is being produced by our own ministries and by international experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EMy two questions to the Minister, then, are, number one: why, then, have we seen an increase in funding in the tough on crime approach, which has no evidential backing, empirical or anecdotal, rather than putting in additional money and resources into community-based rehabilitation? Instead, what I\u2019ve seen in this Budget is a reduction in funding for some of the community-based rehabilitation providers. That\u2019s my first question to the Minister, and I may have a follow-up question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002294fb5e765fc74413979a3aa2c3775c7b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002294fb5e765fc74413979a3aa2c3775c7b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s quite simple, really. If you lock up violent criminals who repeatedly victimise people in the community, then they\u2019re not in the community re-victimising people. It\u2019s as simple as that. Locking them up to make sure that they are not in our communities creating harm is what this Government is committed to doing, because the people on the street have had enough. They\u2019ve had enough of being victims. They have had enough of people like that member over there telling them that we don\u2019t need the New Zealand Police, that we don\u2019t need any sort of law and order\u2014we just let them all run loose! That\u2019s why we\u2019re in Government and you\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef2e2e94925d464fad66afef4c1e2724\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef2e2e94925d464fad66afef4c1e2724\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the Associate Minister of Justice, I have a few questions in regard to the proposed changes to electoral law, which also have appropriations implications going forward. I might actually just start with the question that I was going to end with, which is just around the logic of changing the law to facilitate very serious offenders being able to vote if they\u2019re held in a mental health facility, and what the logic of that was, sitting directly next to the complete ban, should those individuals be in prison facilities. That\u2019s one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003EI did also want to say that of course this is a significant change, in that New Zealanders for decades now have been used to being able to register the day before the election, and more recently on the day of the election. This is a really substantial proposal to change to our electoral law, and, just as the Attorney-General\u2019s report said, changes to that are very serious. If there are other options in terms of getting to the Minister\u2019s objective, which was to have the vote counted within 14 days, then that ought to be the preferred option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003EMy questions are whether the Minister considered simply funding the Electoral Commission to the amount that they would need to adequately count the votes within 14 days, as opposed to the current, which is around 26 days\u2014noting also that the Electoral Commission has been quite diligent in raising the fact that it\u2019s been drawing from reserves of late and hasn\u2019t been able to hold its operational budget. I do have another question attached as well, but perhaps I\u2019ll let the Minister respond to those as a start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002299f010fbe9f84c81bf381fdc410b136e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002299f010fbe9f84c81bf381fdc410b136e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I was talking through that, so please ask me again if I don\u2019t hit the mark with the answer to your question. The Government\u2019s view is that it\u2019s reasonable to require people to enrol before voting begins. Enrolment is compulsory in New Zealand, and the Government considers there\u2019s plenty of advance notice ahead of an election for people to organise their enrolment. The change was relatively new, and the issue that we had, which was found after the\u2014sorry, I\u2019m jumping here, but what we found after the election was that the time taken to count those votes meant that we had to also ensure that the caretaker Government was extended as a result of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re basically saying we\u2019re going to go back to what it was but actually not as far back as what it was, and we think that we have found a good area there. The Government believes that allowing enrolments up to and on election day has removed the incentive to get enrolled before the election, and the Minister had expressed his view that New Zealanders are capable of adapting to earlier deadlines. It\u2019s quite reasonable for them to do so. Please, if I missed something there, ask me again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u002216df42fee2044277a8801564e6b29d86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216df42fee2044277a8801564e6b29d86\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Just in terms of meeting that objective of having the votes counted more quickly, has the Minister of Justice received advice that, actually, it may not be the case that the votes are counted more quickly? There would still be a substantial number of special votes. Indeed, people may attempt to cast a special vote without having registered, and that vote would still need to be processed and potentially discounted, so it wouldn\u2019t necessarily shorten the period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003EThe other question I have is: no doubt the Minister received a number of proposals of alternative ways of shortening that vote count period. Was there any assessment that those other proposals cumulatively could address the need to reduce the period to 14 days so that the Minister would not have to touch that enrolment period at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b3608bc460fb4e51ae9e3e89a10f5d57\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b3608bc460fb4e51ae9e3e89a10f5d57\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. My apologies for reading off this. I am standing in for another Minister and was not over this part. I will be\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d1e3ce4b2743389254cf87fef0a871\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019re much better!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb52e4d0bff4498199d0f95a67f886ad\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I\u2019m going to be reading for this one. The enrolment deadline would need to be at least 13 days before the election day to enable enrolment processing to be mostly completed by the close of polling. Any shorter period will make it less likely that enrolment processing can be completed in time to enable the official count check to proceed immediately after election day. When looking at the enrolment deadline in other countries, in Australia, the enrolment closes seven days after the issue of the writ for federal elections\u2014for the 2025 election, anyway. This deadline was 26 days before the election day. In the United Kingdom, enrolment closes 12 working days before election day. In Canada, the enrolment is allowed when people vote, including on election day. In Ireland, enrolment applications must be received at least 15 days before an election. We feel that we have found that sweet spot there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EJust what I spoke to earlier\u2014people were able to enrol up to and on election day for the 2020 and 2023 elections here in New Zealand. Prior to that, the enrolment deadline had been midnight the day before election day since the 1996 election. Before 1990, the enrolment deadline was 6 p.m. on the writ day. We want to make sure that when people have actually made their vote, they get the Government that they have voted for and they get it quickly so that that Government can then start implementing their policies, regardless of whom it is. Looking at what the international comparisons were, we figured that where we landed was a good place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00226e3d6fe849ac4572825cc16b7d91aac4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e3d6fe849ac4572825cc16b7d91aac4\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I do want to talk about the electoral reform, but I just want to pick up on the question that I asked the Associate Minister of Justice previously. While I appreciate that the Minister may need to get things off her chest, the volume of voice doesn\u2019t necessarily materialise the evidential basis of a Government policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EMy question around that is, then, from what I\u2019m hearing, in terms of from the Minister: is what we\u2019re looking at, the purpose and the policy direction of Vote Justice and Corrections, in this case, to lock more people up, as opposed to reduce crime in our communities? The evidence that I\u2019ve quoted doesn\u2019t equate with what the Minister has mentioned. That\u2019s my first question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003ENow, on to electoral reform\u2014I do have two questions for the Minister. The first question is in terms of some of the other jurisdictions the Minister mentioned before. Could I ask the Minister how many of those jurisdictions have automatic enrolment at the age they\u2019re entitled to enrol? Something like automatic enrolment would make a simple and reasonably low-cost and effective way of ensuring that people are enrolled to vote. Yes, what the Minister quoted undoubtedly is what those jurisdictions are doing, but I do want to know from the perspective of automatic enrolment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EMy next question is: what evidence and what consultation has the Minister or the ministry done in terms of overseas New Zealanders\u2019 voice when it comes to enrolment? For overseas New Zealanders, it is sometimes incredibly difficult for them to enrol on time because of the limited locations and availability for them to enrol, as well as to vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThose are my two questions. The first one is around automatic enrolment. The second one is around consultation with overseas New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002225c1d71b05234cccb2dfa3a842470642\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225c1d71b05234cccb2dfa3a842470642\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. To the member, in talking about my volume of voice, when I am being barraged, I will speak to be heard. Your leader is a good example of using her voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EYou asked me a question about whether or not it is this Government\u2019s intention to just lock people up. No; it\u2019s our intention to hold people to account. It\u2019s our intention to keep our community safe. It\u2019s our intention to protect our front-line police. It\u2019s our intention to protect our children. It\u2019s our intention to protect New Zealand society. If that means we have to lock people up because they continuously misbehave or they create violent crime, so be it. We make no apology for that, because people need to learn that when you live in a democratic society such as New Zealand, we all want to live happily, healthily with each other. The social experiment that was held by the previous Government did not work, so we are taking the most appropriate action and holding people to account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to your enrolment\u2014and, if I don\u2019t answer this, please, come to me again\u2014this is one that I\u2019m not really over. I will try to answer in the best way that I possibly can, and I hope that this does it. Automatic enrolment updates\u2014the benefit of the policies that we\u2019re going to make is that the automatic enrolment updates will smooth the peaks of high resource demand for enrolment processing immediately before the elections by keeping the electoral rolls more up to date between elections. Over time, this should result in fewer hours for issuing and processing special votes, with associated cost and time savings. This proposal should make it easier for the public, particularly highly mobile communities, to stay enrolled at the right address, which supports participation, but we think that this is probably going to take about two further elections ahead to get it into a state where it\u2019s going to show some good results for us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022de6790b4dde74e0783e3cf0dc0d9d44a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de6790b4dde74e0783e3cf0dc0d9d44a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, thank you very much, Mr Chair. I was actually finding the Associate Minister of Justice\u2019s answers really interesting, but I don\u2019t think members opposite are the same. Tim Costley could be potentially watching Netflix or even listening to Taylor Swift. I wonder if he\u2019d like to take his AirPods out and join us here in the Chamber and pay attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is regarding methamphetamine and the increase\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022060d56a93329431f931343ab2cd84255\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, Ms Andersen, I just wasn\u2019t quite sure; I didn\u2019t pick it up. Was that an accusation that a member wasn\u2019t concentrating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ec3637213c44687917be95b270e9827\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it was. He had AirPods in and I wondered if he needed to remove them to be in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe7dab81dea479d96a0c8ad38d9e409\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d say let\u2019s just stick to the topic, shall we?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec5f06bb33f44282b4e5bcb5e0ba7648\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: All right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a44f2f8a0dd4110b1cad7d4d859e3e8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: If it comes to the attention of the Chair, then we\u2019ll do something about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf7934ab90004f6385c33de12055de48\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, he might want to listen to Taylor Swift. That\u2019s fine with me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022103925b6f9e64afea9688613b42f53f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720e82d8e5554c5cafb2aead2229adc3\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002256d3b4c236ad44b8a96986872cd86148\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Can we just carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4e2aa81de0c470ebf541909c4c6493e\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe you confirm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ab9b8d033014f1fa28ffe1e77cc0cec\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I would hate for the Chair to be interrupting when someone is not concentrating 100 percent on what\u2019s going across the other side of the Chamber. I think I could be on my feet rather a lot. Now, let\u2019s just carry on with the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022103925b6f9e64afea9688613b42f53f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5a80fdc92014632a0caf49fc2446f8f\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014point of order, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262a609a4f2f949a7bec1893e5c288c06\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: My question to the Minister is not about Taylor Swift; it\u2019s about methamphetamine\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225418195526024a1d9a87677349301b18\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, point of order, the Hon Mark Mitchell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022103925b6f9e64afea9688613b42f53f5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c81e535eed94f039a03cce605865288\u0022\u003EHon Mark Mitchell\u003C/span\u003E: My point of order is quite simply this, Mr Chair. If I had AirPods available to me, I\u2019d wear them while that member was speaking as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ba1632b1e0486aacf381be9822fb52\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, it was when the Minister was speaking, not when I was speaking, that he was listening, and that was the point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bdaf741d6904f3e9e79285eb094eca6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Bordering on frivolous, Mr Mitchell. But let\u2019s just all carry on and calm down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f6cf6c146334e23b99727ed739dc393\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Mitchell\u2014one; Andersen\u2014zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d612833a28f4c98b0df4231ac88a0bf\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Tim Costley\u2014minus 10. My question is in relation to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3473bf7ef8045978ec4441e05125a05\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s an hour to go, people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022197025ac902745ef8af45f5a5119aaea\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014methamphetamine. We know that there was no specific funding in Budget 2025 to account for the sharp increase that New Zealand has seen in methamphetamine use, particularly over the last 12 months. We\u2019ve seen a spike that\u2019s gone up by 97 percent. That spike is disproportionately impacting potentially\u2014well, it is impacting\u2014lower socio-economic areas. We know that from the waste-water testing. We also know that that use will have an increase in the incourt time, as we potentially see more prosecutions. It will potentially see also more inmates who are requiring addiction treatment, even mental health treatment, if they\u2019ve been users of methamphetamine for some time. It also could potentially result in more violence within our prisons if people are accessing methamphetamine or going through withdrawal of methamphetamine when incarcerated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m interested to know what the Minister has in place looking forward, given that sharp increase, in terms of how the justice pipeline will deal with that increased complexity as a result of the sharp increase of methamphetamine use that disproportionately does affect our justice system and those people who encounter it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u00226cdda62139634c549d3dd608b2aa6485\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cdda62139634c549d3dd608b2aa6485\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I thank that member for the question because it\u2019s one that affects all of New Zealand\u2019s society and they were really good questions that you asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EIn response to the recent test showing a doubling of meth in waste water, the Prime Minister pulled together, basically, the justice sector Ministers. He has tasked us with looking to find solutions in tackling meth, not just in the areas of where it\u2019s being sold and the crime that comes from it but also in the addiction, and how do we compel people to get off meth once we find them. There\u2019s a lot of work that\u2019s going on in this space. We\u2019re considering options that have been given to us to address the serious issue. The options need to provide a balance between disrupting the international supply of methamphetamine and strengthening the domestic enforcement, as well as those options to prevent the use and strengthen the availability of treatment around New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve started this already by giving police extra powers. We\u2019ve removed the gang patches so that they are not so visible to those that are wishing to purchase. We\u2019ve introduced the three-strikes regime again. We have taken away the discounts offered in sentencing. Those are some of those immediate criminal justice aspects that we can look to while we look at the bigger opportunities that we have here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EAnother way to stop repeat offending is to target any profit that these organised crime groups are making from drugs. Inland Revenue, for example, were doing audits, and during 2024-25, 66\u00A0organised crime-related audits were completed, with revenue assessed at $34.5 million. We have provided funding in the 2025 Budget to ensure that this good work continues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EAnother important response to meth is to disrupt the supply of it to New Zealand before it even gets to our border. There has been significant success in the detection and the seizures of meth, and I do do a shout-out here not only to New Zealand Police but also to our customs agents, who have found quite a bit over a small period of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThe final piece of the fight against meth must then be to reduce the demand\u2014so stopping people starting in the first place and, if they have started using, getting them to stop and stay stopped. So that\u2019s part of what we\u2019re looking at as our response. You will see something shortly as we pull together all the options that we\u2019ve been given and our plan on how to tackle it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022 data-id=\u0022323af1bd84e94f8690b149f0c1d091b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ec6b21860ff42a8bfcfbf955e54750a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022323af1bd84e94f8690b149f0c1d091b3\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, in the Budget last year there was resource allocated from the Ministry of Justice towards the Treaty principles bill and developing that legislation and undergoing that consultation process. I understand that it\u2019s the Government\u2019s intention to remove the Treaty from over 28 pieces of legislation, and that the constitutional team within the Ministry of Justice will likely be engaged in parts of this work. How much resource is this Government putting into petty culture wars to erase the history and the foundational documents of this country? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u00225ecaa0074e4e4c768b0e93379a843c68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ecaa0074e4e4c768b0e93379a843c68\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. We are in a triumvirate of Government. There are three parties, here, where we also have coalition agreements with each other. The reference to the provisions of the Treaty principles within 23 laws administered by 13\u00A0Government agencies\u2014and there\u2019s a list of them\u2014is legislation that refers to the Treaty as opposed to the Treaty principles, and they\u2019ve generally been excluded from the review. The exception is sections within the Education and Training Act 2020, whose Treaty provisions were being separately reviewed and have been included in this process for practicality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003ETo you, this may seem trivial\u2014to the member, and I do appreciate the member bringing it up\u2014but to this side of the Government, we want everybody to unite and to be as one. The coalition agreement between National and New Zealand First spoke to doing this, and that\u2019s exactly what the Government\u2019s going to do, because they have agreed to do so. The cost of it is going to be the cost of it in order to complete the coalition agreement that the Government had signed up to, and we will support them in order to have equality for everybody and make sure that our laws are fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022f39b151abb164fbf89845da05054b9e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f39b151abb164fbf89845da05054b9e3\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a relatively short point, and it\u2019s actually around the capacity of the Ministry of Justice to undertake the policy work that it has. It\u2019s clearly a busy ministry, and it has been busy under this Government, and will be busy under any Government, because justice is a critical sector. The reason I ask whether this policy ministry and its policy arm is adequately resourced is that I\u2019ve just today received a couple of emails around the Regulatory Standards Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EWe know that the Regulatory Standards Bill will require any ministry dealing with legislation, whether it be a bill before this House or secondary legislation, to undertake an additional piece of policy work around compliance with those regulatory standards. I\u2019ve got these two documents\u2014and I won\u2019t name them, but they\u2019re from policy analysts with the ministry\u2014which say, \u201CWe have concerns about the ability of agencies to absorb the additional work and note this could potentially impact on the ministerial policy and legislative work programme.\u201D That is to say, the Government\u2014any Government\u2014can\u2019t do what it wants to do because of these standards. Then, the other document\u2014this is October last year\u2014says, \u201CThe proposals regarding active stewardship, regular review, maintenance, and improvement of legislation administered would have an impact on the policy group\u2019s work programme, etc. This would be felt particularly strongly by Ministry of Justice given the large amount of legislation we administer. The bill also requires retrospective reviews.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EI guess the question is this: is the Ministry of Justice\u2014so that it can remain in its current capacity\u2014going to be given additional resources so that it can also discharge the additional functions being imposed by the Regulatory Standards Act, which is set to come into force next year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u00220c035c13b5e14ee9a40ddf4c993a4d46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c035c13b5e14ee9a40ddf4c993a4d46\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E At this stage, the Ministry of Justice is adequately funded to be able to complete their work. Should they need any extra funding, they will no doubt come to their Minister and bid for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u002215fc3ad009c0463194319794b1182e86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215fc3ad009c0463194319794b1182e86\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Two very brief questions to close my questions on electoral reform\u2014they\u2019re quite discrete. One is around costings to implement the changes in relation to restricting registration, and what that costing looks like. No doubt, there\u2019s education, etc., form changes, that will be required, and I\u2019m sure the Minister of Justice has received some advice on that. The second is whether there\u2019s a costing on enabling voting in health facilities, which is a new provision of the Act as well. Just those two very specific questions on costings. Costings to restrict registration is one\u2014what are the costings for that? Costings to allow voting for health facilities is a second question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003EThen, just in terms of access to justice, for the Minister, the other concern that I, and many I\u2019ve spoken to, have is about increasing fees in terms of access to courts. On 1 July this year, we saw an increase to High Court fees and fees relating to civil proceedings, including in the Employment Court, which obviously impacts access to justice\u2014and whether there is consideration of how that may impact New Zealanders\u2019 ability to access a remedy where they\u2019re experiencing just some very basic, really, cost of living issues, the things related to their employment, a civil dispute in relation to tenancy as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003EThe second part of that is court appointment. I noted that in terms of the Human Rights Review Tribunal, the four deputy chairs were not reappointed, nor were they replaced. It takes the decision makers down from six to two. At the moment, there are significant delays in the tribunal, so I\u2019m just asking what the considerations are, or the projections, for people going through the Human Rights Review Tribunal, given the decision makers have reduced from six to two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u0022eed8b2b451e441c78d704c00be676fe2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eed8b2b451e441c78d704c00be676fe2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019m getting all this information together for you. Your questions on the electoral system reform\u2014I\u2019ve been told that $80.6 million is being made available, over four years, to improve and modernise the election process. You asked specifically how much is going into certain areas. What I\u2019ve been given is full amounts that are going to specific places. As an example, $7.8 million is for modernising elections\u2014that\u2019s for digital comms. So $7.8 million of that $80 million is to digitalise, $18.7 million is the electoral integrity improvements, and $54 million is for general election 2026 plus implementing changes in the Electoral Amendment Bill. Within those three appropriations for that $80 million will come the costings for what you\u2019ve asked for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EYou had asked me about access to justice in courts and the fees going up, and I thank the member for that question. It was a tough one, actually, to look at having to increase the fees, because if I remember correctly, they haven\u2019t been increased for over 20 years. We were getting to a point where it was becoming\u2014not so much unsustainable; but we were not recovering the cost of actually operating the courts, because the fees had not been increased. We have increased the fees, and we\u2019ve made sure that increases in the future will go with the Consumers Price Index so that we don\u2019t have a 20-year gap and then have to do this again, or have a future Government having to do it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s really important to remember with those people that are struggling\u2014and we do recognise that\u2014is that we have not taken away the ability for the courts to dispose of those costs or to say that a person does not have to pay a filing fee. We have ensured that that is still remaining, so that gives people the option to be able to claim the hardship that they may find necessary to claim in order to be able to get their access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4881746f9064db6affc39e9d1efa141\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4881746f9064db6affc39e9d1efa141\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve just got a few questions around the ministerial advisory group on retail crime and whether the Minister views the advice received from the group has provided good value for money, and, in particular, which of the recommendations made by the ministerial advisory group on retail crime, in particular, she thinks holds merit and will be implemented?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002201ca88d8873d448aac2e039d2501da27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201ca88d8873d448aac2e039d2501da27\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you for the question from that member. Do we believe that there\u2019s value for money? I think so, yes. My reasoning for thinking so is because we have pulled together people from the community that have actually been affected by retail crime and tasked them with finding solutions that they think will work. They have worked extremely hard on this, and they have come up with multiple solutions for us, which we have then investigated and seen what it is that we think that we can advance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThe member has asked me which one of their initiatives, in particular, do I really support, and I\u2019m going to say I support all of them. I think that they will make a huge difference. Some of those ones in the package of reforms will include amending the Crimes Act so that citizens can intervene to stop any Crimes Act offence at any time of the day, because currently you can only do a citizen\u2019s arrest at certain hours. After 9 p.m. and before 6 a.m. is when you can do it, so I\u2019m quite happy with the fact that we\u2019re allowing people to take control\u2014should they feel confident enough to do so\u2014and do a citizen\u2019s arrest themselves. There is clarity around that, as well, which means the moment you do that, you have to ring the police and do whatever they tell you to do. I think that the controls that we have put around those reforms will help keep the public safe, keep the person who\u2019s been detained safe, and also show respect for law in the way that we have gone about doing this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also agreed to two new theft offences, which is a new shoplifting infringement offence and an aggravated theft offence, targeting theft at under $2,000. We have seen a lot of theft, and the retailers are the ones that have to stomach it and put up with it in the reduction in their bank accounts. When they come to us and they say, \u201CLook, if you increase the fines, if you have infringements, it may be a deterrent.\u201D, we think that it\u2019s worthwhile having a look at that, and we believe that they have come up with a good solution there. We\u2019re also looking at simplifying the penalties for theft, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThere are some other initiatives that they\u2019ve got coming, and we look forward to actually hearing from them about what else we can do to support the retail groups in New Zealand, because they have been so drastically affected by crime over such a large number of years that many of them are struggling. This not only gives them a voice but also gives them an effective outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022fe85516253404360aa812c4fb6f3fcfb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fe85516253404360aa812c4fb6f3fcfb\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I just have two very quick follow-up questions on the citizen\u2019s arrest. The first one is that we are already seeing disagreements within that particular advisory group, with some of the members within that group not wanting to push forward with citizen\u2019s arrest because of the harm that it will have for the people who are working in those particular shops. How, then, could the Associate Minister of Justice say, \u201COh, look, this is the advice that we have received, and they\u2019ve been working really collegially.\u201D, when clearly there\u2019s disagreement? I just want to check with the Minister how she would reconcile that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EThe second question is: like the Minister said, citizen\u2019s arrest is already in the legislation, albeit with limited hours. What evidence does the Minister have that the limited hours of citizen\u2019s arrest we have now is working as intended? Is there a percentage? Is there any form of evidence or record that it\u2019s working as it is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7dbf80bfb874d7ca87947099e8a221a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7dbf80bfb874d7ca87947099e8a221a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. One of the proposals we made with the citizen\u2019s arrest is that a person actually doesn\u2019t have to do it. If they don\u2019t feel confident, if they\u2019re afraid, they don\u2019t have to do it. This has been a really important point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EYou\u2019ve asked me about the disagreements within the ministerial advisory group (MAG). It\u2019s healthy to have disagreements. That\u2019s where you get the debate, and that\u2019s where you come up with outcomes. I mean, we have it even in this Parliament, right, where we don\u2019t agree with things, but every now and again we come up with a healthy outcome on a matter which we can all agree to. Sometimes we can work together, sometimes we can\u2019t, but, effectively, we will still come out with some outcomes. I think where we landed with this, by not making people have to do it, including security guards\u2014they don\u2019t have to do it; it\u2019s up to the individual and their confidence. I think where we got to there is a really good point. I understand, again, the disagreements within the MAG, and as I mentioned, that creates a healthy debate and also means that you look at all different options. That\u2019s what we did when we took on their advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003EThe proposals enable more tools, more options to those that are victims of crime. You asked whether or not I had any evidence. There\u2019s a story that resonates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252b613826c5342c1894ca35040388816\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e20cce62ebbd405e95b13f0fc0bdfe3a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: There will be evidence, but there\u2019s a story that resonates\u2014it was in the paper, it\u2019s in the news, and you can look it up\u2014of some guys who had tried to entertain a citizen\u2019s arrest of a young person who had committed an aggravated robbery on a jewellery store. They held the person down, but because it was in the middle of the day, they were told to let that person go. That person just got away with what they had done and potentially was able to go on and do it again, because there is no deterrence to what they had done. These people chased this person down the street and held him down and had to let him go. What we\u2019re saying is that if you can only do a citizen\u2019s arrest between 9 p.m. and 6 a.m.\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225962556836f149ea975360fe3cdfbccb\u0022\u003EHon Dr Duncan Webb\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what the law says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca0ee2ac5f3846b89b4aaec3a332cc03\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and we have some of these occurrences happening in the middle of the day\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d9d2376c8745989ef2ab68136b8553\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m asking for the existing evidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229462a8ad0d194e0a9d82eba99456e00a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014then we will\u2014sorry, I\u2019ve got two things going on here. The time of day makes it clear and consistent for the retailer, by saying that they can defend their property by making sure that they can arrest somebody who has offended upon them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u00223996f9ec2e5b476097735c91dc9e3f85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223996f9ec2e5b476097735c91dc9e3f85\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, I\u2019m not entirely happy with that response around citizen\u2019s arrest. There were some inaccuracies in there that the Associate Minister of Justice might want to take some advice on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EI actually want to talk about legal aid, and there\u2019s two strands to it, really. The first is simply a pretty straightforward question about whether the rates for legal aid lawyers are likely to be increased. I recently had an electrician who got paid 25 percent more than a legal aid lawyer would get paid for appealing a Provider Approval Level 1 case. Perfectly happy to pay the tradie that amount, but it does suggest that things have got a bit out of kilter, and it\u2019s no wonder there\u2019s a shortage of legal aid lawyers. I\u2019m interested in whether that is under active consideration with the review that\u2019s going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe second one is around section 27 reports and whether the Minister has made special provision in the Budget for funding the three things which are backfilling the absence of section 27 reports. It was reported by Newsroom on the back of written parliamentary questions asked by me on the cost of psychological reports that has more than doubled. Last month was $470,000 a month. What\u2019s that? Five, six million dollars a year, which, funnily enough, is the amount that was being spent on section\u00A027 reports. Then, the trend in alcohol and drug reports, which was, last April, $17,000 a month but last month was $220,000 a month, which is about $3 million a year. These reports are more expensive than section 27 reports because psychologists are expensive, and alcohol and drug experts and medical professionals are expensive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003EThe other thing\u2014and this is in a ministerial report that the Minister will have seen\u2014is legal aid lawyers are using legal aid time to do the reports themselves. The sort of pitch was that this would save $7 million. I\u2019d be curious to know if it saved any money at all or if, in fact, it\u2019s costing more than the previous regime was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002293d5b1106ac3417a89a0625c787cb16d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293d5b1106ac3417a89a0625c787cb16d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Currently, for legal aid, we are undertaking the triennial review, and all options will be considered while that review is being undertaken. When it comes to the section 27 reports and the psych reports that the member had mentioned, yes, the psych reports have gone up, but I have been advised that the amount is nowhere near where the section 27 reports actually were.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u002201b0bfebe9c54ad887484edefc3aa7b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201b0bfebe9c54ad887484edefc3aa7b2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a couple of questions for the Associate Minister of Justice. Potentially, I\u2019d appreciate it, Minister, if I could get some advice as well around the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act (NZBORA) report and the availability of the NZBORA report, because one of the things we\u2019re seeing is that consistently there is\u2014well, consistently there have been inconsistencies around the timing of the upload of the NZBORA report, both in terms of when the bill is introduced under urgency but also when a substantial amendment has been introduced. I want to check with the Minister in terms of what part of the appropriation, what part of the Budget, has there been to ensure that there is prompt upload of the NZBORA reports to the Ministry of Justice website?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003EAt the same time, are there any considerations or budget in place for consultation work or for urgent NZBORA report work when a substantial amendment has been introduced into the House, particularly during committee stage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc35bbdf2e5a459c90c8ad1b54bd4bb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc35bbdf2e5a459c90c8ad1b54bd4bb9\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Associate Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The New Zealand Bill of Rights Act reports\u2014their uploading on to a website is not a ministerial issue. That\u2019s an operational issue for the Ministry of Justice, and my understanding is that they do upload where they can, when they can, as fast as they can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a7adca214674087aedb9f4fc510d6ff\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Development \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u00223ab957337cae4194ae3251b02d90dcb6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ab957337cae4194ae3251b02d90dcb6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the Associate Minister of Justice\u2019s time in the chair has come to an end. Thank you, Minister. We now have the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. The Minister is available to speak to that portfolio from 9.30 p.m. until the end of the evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022 data-id=\u00229c403d34ad734af695d7b181f8e70870\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c403d34ad734af695d7b181f8e70870\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (Chairperson of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. The total appropriation sought for Vote M\u0101ori Development is $512.7 million. This is actually bigger than the amount budgeted for in 2024, because it includes appropriations transferred from the former Vote Te Arawhiti. In essence, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri now holds the relationship with iwi post-settlement governance entities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EThe committee also discussed M\u0101ori housing, with areas of focus on this subject being new homes being built in Rotorua, Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga, papa k\u0101inga, rangatahi transitional housing, and the accommodation supplement review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EAnother focus was the procurement process of new Wh\u0101nau Ora contracts. We heard that under the new contracts, Te Puni K\u014Dkiri intends to be able to prove that Wh\u0101nau Ora works by including five shifts, these shifts being: greater service reach, particularly to populations most in need; a strengthened evidence base; data-driven investment planning; better front-line workforce development and retention; and stronger risk management processes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EAlthough there were other matters traversed during our scrutiny hearing, these are a few of the pertinent ones. Thank you, Mr Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022b154a04425df4473928324a723a381e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b154a04425df4473928324a723a381e3\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thanks for this time. I\u2019ve got, obviously, a number of questions for the Minister but, first of all, in the M\u0101ori housing space, can we have some clarification from the Minister in terms of how much money was transferred out of Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga, given that that was a major development for us in the previous Government? It was landmark stuff; we were talking about investments of over $700 million. Can I get some clarification on the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga scheme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s been some investment in Te Tair\u0101whiti, but I\u2019m not clear, because looking at the Budget figures, am I correct in saying that $400 million was transferred out of the Whai K\u0101inga Whai Oranga scheme into the general fund\u2014into the flexible fund\u2014as Minister Bishop was saying? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EAgain, can I ask the Minister what the opportunities are for M\u0101ori providers in the housing space. Is he satisfied that there is priority given, or are M\u0101ori providers missing out, which seems to be the case that we\u2019re hearing in areas like Rotorua? I just wanted to start off in that area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003ECan I also now come to the Wh\u0101nau Ora space, because it\u2019s been a very controversial area. I want to ask, this being the time to traverse that area: we\u2019ve seen questions from John Tamihere in terms of the process of Wh\u0101nau Ora and in terms of how the Te Puni K\u014Dkiri process\u2014this is all Budget related, because, basically, the Te Pou Matakana northern agency lost all of their funding in this area; they\u2019ve lost the contract. But what John Tamihere is implying is that that was already a done deal. He has put up evidence to say that the CEO for Te Puni K\u014Dkiri had already made a decision in terms of the process of Wh\u0101nau Ora, in terms of the future of Wh\u0101nau Ora. It seems to be the case that he was held responsible, given his affiliations, in terms of being the president of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003ECan I hear from the Minister: is there any truth in what Mr Tamihere is saying? He also said that the Minister was a disgrace to te ao M\u0101ori and has alleged that\u2014the Minister will be aware of this, it\u2019s been well publicised\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5fe44be0afd4140a0cf6b0669bf3c50\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does this relate to the Budget?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af58eed559f54be4b083d470c71caf4f\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s absolutely about the Budget. John Tamihere lost his whole budget, so I would like some clarification on this, because there are allegations\u2014and I don\u2019t like saying this, because I\u2019ve worked very closely with Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, but he has questioned the process, he has said that the process was corrupted, and he is saying that the chief executive of Te Puni K\u014Dkiri had already made decisions with regards to this Wh\u0101nau Ora decision-making process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u00224e230d1bf13941869799515bcf56cdee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e230d1bf13941869799515bcf56cdee\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to address the Minister for M\u0101ori Development in relation to Whakaata M\u0101ori, knowing that Whakaata M\u0101ori has suffered a budget cut that is significant in terms of the way that they\u2019ve already lost staff and are now trying to project forward in terms of what their position is for both sustainability and also to achieve the goals and aspirations of Te Whare o te Reo Mauriora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m wanting to celebrate the wins of Whakaata M\u0101ori, in terms of their social outcomes report that they launched earlier this year, where they shared that they\u2019ve given a massive social value, created out of their small budget over $100 million worth of social value. They shared that they have had 2.5\u00A0million annual viewers, including the new 4.8 million digital users and all those social media interactions that they\u2019ve had, and that M\u0101ori viewers feel more connected to te ao M\u0101ori. They\u2019re showing this value on the smell of an oily rag\u2014a budget of a smell of an oily rag\u2014and the viewers are connecting more with te ao M\u0101ori. The reo is more active and reo speakers are engaging with te\u00A0reo M\u0101ori and improving their proficiency through Whakaata M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EWith all these findings in the report\u2014and I acknowledge all of those that were in the whare with us at Whakaata M\u0101ori, celebrating the release of this groundbreaking report that really highlights the value above and beyond what is funded by the Crown right now\u2014I\u2019m keen to understand from the Minister, knowing that they are achieving so much, knowing that they have lost a lot of institutional knowledge and staff who had been within the organisation for an extended period of time, how we can look to the future for a strong reo M\u0101ori, vibrant Whakaata M\u0101ori, as a part of our independent fourth estate, as well, knowing that we have got this limited budget.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EWhat are some of the wins that he has seen from Whakaata M\u0101ori, over this last period, that we can also celebrate and stand alongside? What are those plans? What can we do to improve this space and invest in such an important part of our te reo M\u0101ori celebration of language, culture, and heritage and further the broadcasting, social media, and M\u0101ori media landscape?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u00229de1f8fc449f41d7a0fa76fcfcf84ce8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229de1f8fc449f41d7a0fa76fcfcf84ce8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Further to what H\u016Bhana Lyndon was saying, I would like to get something, eventually, I suppose, from the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. Anything would be fine. There are so many areas to traverse, so I\u2019ll traverse them all if you like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EIn terms of M\u0101ori broadcasting, it is important for the Chamber to understand the history of Whakaata M\u0101ori\u2014particularly given that the Minister has given no extra funding to Whakaata M\u0101ori. No extra funding has also gone into M\u0101ori broadcasting. It is an absolute travesty that this has happened, given the contribution that M\u0101ori\u2014and I acknowledge our broadcasting spokesman here, Reuben Davidson, who is our broadcasting spokesman, but M\u0101ori broadcasting comes under the Minister for M\u0101ori Development. The obstacles that M\u0101ori broadcasting have had to work through have been incredibly tough over the years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019ve had to do with M\u0101ori broadcasting is start almost two generations after mainstream broadcasting started. When you look at Television New Zealand, for instance, it started in 1960, and Whakaata M\u0101ori - M\u0101ori Television in 2004. People talk about taxpayers funding, and we know the ACT Party doesn\u2019t like M\u0101ori getting funding, and they always ask\u2014David Seymour will always ask\u2014why should they keep getting funded? Well, because they started a couple of generations after mainstream television.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that the Minister in this Government funds Whakaata M\u0101ori adequately. At the moment, there is no funding coming from this Minister to Whakaata M\u0101ori. There is no funding from this Minister and this Government going to iwi radio at the moment. I want to know from the Minister\u2014if he\u2019s ever going to answer a question\u2014if he has got any plans to change that. Will there be a strategy around iwi radio and Whakaata M\u0101ori, whose primary base is to support te reo M\u0101ori? It\u2019s really tough if the Government is not going to fund the entities adequately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EAt the moment, we have a Government that is saying, \u201CWe\u2019ll look after the tobacco companies, and we\u2019ll look after the landlords, and we\u2019ll borrow\u201D\u2014how much was it, Arena?\u2014\u201C$14 billion in terms of tax. We\u2019ll do all that, but we won\u2019t give the M\u0101ori one cent.\u201D This is absolute fact. I feel\u2014because I came from that area, in terms of M\u0101ori broadcasting\u2014that this Minister, given his background and history, and this Government, also given their history, should make a real effort in terms of funding M\u0101ori broadcasting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EWhat is the plan? When I was the Minister, this Minister had said that we should have baselined things, and that\u2019s a fair challenge, but what we were doing was we were giving money at different times, so our broadcasters had to manage their business affairs around that. Surely, a better strategy, in terms of Whakaata M\u0101ori, in terms of M\u0101ori kaupapa full stop, would be to baseline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI address our M\u0101ori members on the other side. This is one of the problems they would see in terms of kaupapa M\u0101ori initiatives. M\u0101ori always have to live off the smell of an oily rag. They do not have any base. It\u2019s always at the whim of the of Governments. Surely, the Minister might have a strategy in terms of baselining funding. In terms of Wh\u0101nau Ora\u2014that was an area that we actually baselined, in terms of Te Pou Matakana\u2014we baselined that funding, but M\u0101ori funding struggles all the way through. Now, the consequences of that are that te ao M\u0101ori struggles because we don\u2019t know where the next dollar is going to come from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI\u2019m asking the Minister tonight how important M\u0101ori broadcasting is. It\u2019s just about\u2014and I shouldn\u2019t say that \u201CIt\u2019s just about\u201D. The primary reason Whakaata M\u0101ori was set up was to support te\u00A0reo M\u0101ori. Iwi radio was set up to support te reo M\u0101ori. These iwi stations\u201421 in total\u2014are conduits to our community. They connect us to our community. When you have a civil defence catastrophe or crisis, our iwi stations\u2014whether it\u2019s Radio Ngati Porou or Te Hiku or Te Korimako in Taranaki\u2014feed and look after our communities. They do more than just support te reo M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EMy question tonight is: what is this Minister going to do? What is this Minister going to do to support our iwi stations? As H\u016Bhana Lyndon said\u2014I think, H\u016Bhana, we were there at their promotion, but the Minister was nowhere to be seen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a82787588b9b4f8e85f6806c13940f13\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Unfortunately!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224335bd66df054c78ba951a604b888709\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Nowhere to be seen, unfortunately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3073aa0f62a4866bf02fb2514591f9b\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Just like this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244eae131efb14a20b611cb208741e48d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, that\u2019s right. Just like this debate, but kei te pai, I\u2019ll just keep talking till 10 o\u2019clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EIn terms of Whakaata M\u0101ori, M\u0101ori radio, te reo M\u0101ori, I want to know where is the strategy. Today, we\u2014myself, and Peeni Henare, and Cushla Tangaere-Manuel\u2014went to Te Taura Whiri\u2014noticed that the Minister wasn\u2019t there today, too. We went to Te Taura Whiri, which is our M\u0101ori language agency, and they gave us their strategy, their rautaki, for the year coming. Things are bleak in that area. Now, this Government, like us, I think, are\u2014well, I would hope\u2014committed to getting one million M\u0101ori language speakers by 2040. I\u2019m going to put that question on the table now. It\u2019d be lovely if the Minister could answer one question before 10 o\u2019clock. I know they\u2019re tough questions. I know he\u2019s struggling. He\u2019s thinking about it, and he\u2019s writing it all down. But, if he doesn\u2019t, kei te pai; I\u2019ll just keep talking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI would like to know, given that we made a commitment as a Government to te reo M\u0101ori, is that commitment still there with this useless Government? It\u2019s a Government, as we well know, that is continually attacking kaupapa M\u0101ori initiatives. Has the Minister succumbed to David Seymour and Winston Peters? As we all know in the House, sadly, Winston Peters disgraces himself, every now and then, when he refuses to acknowledge Aotearoa as the M\u0101ori name of this country. Has that type of pressure from Winston Peters in the House now flowed on to this Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the question, because we\u2019re on Budgets: where is the extra money? Where is the extra money? We\u2019re talking about te reo M\u0101ori, because as I said, we went to Te Taura Whiri today. Where is the extra money for our reo? I\u2019ve asked questions about Wh\u0101nau Ora, I\u2019ve asked questions about M\u0101ori TV, I\u2019ve asked questions about M\u0101ori radio, and now I\u2019m asking questions about te reo M\u0101ori. Is there a plan to get any extra money for te reo M\u0101ori in the next Budget, Minister, or are we going to just allow Winston Peters to embarrass the language and this country every few days in the House when he rejects the beautiful name Aotearoa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI would ask, in that area, whether there is a plan in terms of increasing the reo. What is happening in terms of the Maihi Karauna? What is happening in that area? Is that happening still? Does the Minister have regular meetings in terms of the Crown and in terms of what\u2019s happening with the different agencies? Is he pushing the different agencies in terms of their te reo M\u0101ori obligations? It would be very, very interesting to hear. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u002253f8f464f49944228d13a1e982dfff9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f8f464f49944228d13a1e982dfff9a\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, thank you for giving me the opportunity to really build into some patience in my life, listening to this spray of a variety of issues, sometimes evidenced by facts but generally evidenced by opinions and hearsay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe question of where is the additional money for te reo M\u0101ori is one that I understand Dr Rawinia Higgins asked of the then Minister, Willie Jackson, for many years for Te Tair\u0101whiti, and there was no material increase to the funding for Te Tair\u0101whiti. I\u2019m sure he was reminded of that today in his attendance over at Te Tair\u0101whiti whilst I was working with Taranaki Wh\u0101nui and others at M\u0101tai Moana to establish a reserve that will be managed by Taranaki Wh\u0101nui and the Wellington City Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EIn relation to the variety of cash injections\u2014time limited\u2014that the former Minister made in a variety of broadcasting entities, including te reo M\u0101ori broadcasting entities, we continue to maintain the baseline that was established under the previous Government. We\u2019re very happy to continue to maintain that baseline and, also, on occasion, consider other opportunities to support the adequate protection of te reo M\u0101ori, whether or not that is some of the mahi that Minister Erica Stanford has been doing around decodable books in te reo M\u0101ori\u2014first time ever\u2014that will be deployed across the schooling system next year, or other tactics and undertakings that we are making as this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EYes, we do have fiscal responsibility at the heart of much of the decision making that we undertake, and it\u2019s something that we continue to abide by. I\u2019m not saying that all Governments do that; we do. Others might not and others may not have, but that\u2019s where we land in relation to the allocation of funding across a number of portfolios. Whilst the member may have referred to te ao M\u0101ori struggling, there are actually many, many things that te ao M\u0101ori is doing very well. Tomorrow, I look forward to welcoming Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia to this House, where the first reading for the return of Kororipo P\u0101 to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, on behalf of all of Ng\u0101puhi, will be undertaken. Hopefully my good friend, my Remuera twin, Minister Metek\u014Dura Goldsmith will be here as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThere was an adjunct reference to Te Pou Matakana and John Tamihere making some allegations and using random descriptions, sometimes laced with prejudice and bias towards me, and I appreciate those. Some of them are sub judice, and those allegations will be retained in judicial forums. Others are wildly inaccurate and\u2014how to describe it nicely, Mr Chair\u2014severely adjacent to the truth. Te\u00A0Puni K\u014Dkiri makes decisions according to the processes that it undertakes, not on the basis of party politics, and the Wh\u0101nau Ora decisions have been made on the basis of the process that Te Pou Matakana and others participated in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAs of this date, I\u2019ve not received any complaints from any providers or any navigators that continue to serve their wh\u0101nau and their communities under Wh\u0101nau Ora 2.0, the new commissioning arrangements that are in place. I\u2019ve not heard one since the new commissioning agencies took over Wh\u0101nau Ora in early July this year. We had a wonderful, absolutely fantastic embarkation point out at Hongoeka Marae earlier in July this year for those four new commission agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EYes, Wh\u0101nau Ora has moved in a different direction. We think that it will be really focused on evidence-based attribution of the investment of taxpayer funds for the achievement of outcomes. We know, internally, many of us who have had experience with Wh\u0101nau Ora, that this happens. But we will further demonstrate how this happens by better use of data, by better data planning, and by improving and supporting the workforce that works in the space of Wh\u0101nau Ora. It\u2019s a wonderful space. We\u2019ve seen many providers and navigators thrive in the space but, more importantly, help those wh\u0101nau who are facing some serious challenges achieve better outcomes for their wh\u0101nau\u2014for the individuals and the wh\u0101nau\u2014and also, fortunately, in Wh\u0101nau Ora 2.0, aligned with some of the targets that we have as a Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u00226cea606cfd34484c8d2d68c32f6c856a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226cea606cfd34484c8d2d68c32f6c856a\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m just wanting to follow on from my colleague speaking about the release today on the state of te reo M\u0101ori and the insights that were garnered in the report released today, which really delved, I guess, into the growth of te reo M\u0101ori in this wonderful nation of Aotearoa and the wider acceptance of the way that te reo M\u0101ori is a part of our language, culture, and heritage\u2014our shared language, culture, and heritage\u2014and the fact that the Government plays a key role in helping to resource it, both in adhering to its Te Tiriti obligations and also as an organisation, to help those that are within the sector and community to thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EIn the insights that were shared, there is a wider appreciation by non-M\u0101ori within Aotearoa of fluent speakers of te reo, also the beauty of the language\u2014an appreciation of that\u2014and an acceptance that the speaking of te reo M\u0101ori within our public places and workspaces is a good thing. Further, the report also talked about some of the insights by way of signage, of normalisation of te reo M\u0101ori\u2014these things that, for us in te ao M\u0101ori, we\u2019ve taken for granted and that wider Aotearoa New Zealanders are appreciating all the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister is: we are seeing, from the feedback that is coming in through this study, that te reo M\u0101ori is something that is valued\u2014it is based on, of course, the Te Tiriti obligation and that it is the indigenous language of Aotearoa\u2014and we have M\u0101ori media as a central pillar of the growth and sustainability of te reo, but also we have the Crown and community obligations and the need to flourish and thrive. What is the long-term strategy that the Minister views or has in place to continue to grow this movement and the beauty of te reo M\u0101ori and the normalisation of it, as is the call of our M\u0101ori Language Commissioner today? What are those tangible long-term strategies and the resource that we will see come through to strengthen the adoption and use and normalisation of te reo M\u0101ori in Aotearoa New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u00229808b490088242898ac2959fd2ff6932\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229808b490088242898ac2959fd2ff6932\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Just following up on that\u2014and we\u2019re just about out of time\u2014I wouldn\u2019t mind getting something back in terms of the strategy, particularly in terms of the funding strategy, given that we\u2019ve got zero returns in that broadcasting area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EAlso, can I ask the Minister for M\u0101ori Development, in terms of the tribunal, for an update on where we are with the tribunal, if he\u2019s able to give us that, in particular, one, obviously, in terms of funding, but is there a future, given that we have a clear agenda again\u2014I\u2019m talking about the Waitangi Tribunal\u2014by members of the coalition Government? It seems to shut down the tribunal. Is the Minister able to give us a quick update in that area on any plans he might have in that area? Appreciating that he\u2019s got a review taking place, what are the next steps in that area?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EJust coming back to the broadcasting side of things, adding to what H\u016Bhana Lyndon was saying: is there a plan from the Crown? I have heard the Minister talk about private investment, but are we still looking at possible top-ups in terms of M\u0101ori television, M\u0101ori radio over the next\u2014well, hopefully next year is last year anyway, but in next year\u2019s Budget? Is there a plan in terms of M\u0101ori broadcasting? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave the last couple of minutes\u2014if perhaps the Minister could respond, particularly in that tribunal area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2c535c3cbd64695b0d87188ac7028a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2c535c3cbd64695b0d87188ac7028a6\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. Just quickly in response to the variety of questions, and some comments that were looking for a question, this Government has given the single largest announcement of support for Te Matatini ever. We\u2019ve also continued to support Te M\u0101ori as a kaupapa\u2014Te M\u0101ori Manaaki trust\u2014and I look forward to doing things in that space in the near future. Hundreds of millions of dollars continue to be invested in reo M\u0101ori education, whether or not that\u2019s early childhood, primary, secondary, or tertiary education, and also various other initiatives like Puanga m\u0101 Matariki and other celebrations throughout the motu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThere also continues to be over $100 million invested through M\u0101ori language entities for the promotion of te reo. No, the Crown is not solely responsible for the survival and thriving of te reo M\u0101ori. It has a very important part to play and, obviously, a Tiriti or Treaty obligation to adequately protect this iconic taonga. Te reo M\u0101ori is in the DNA of our country\u2014past, present, and future\u2014and will continue to be so, no matter who the Government is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThere was a question in relation to the Waitangi Tribunal. That process of reviewing the Treaty of Waitangi Act is under way with the advisory group, who people know about\u2014David Cochrane, Bruce Gray, Dion Tuuta, and Kararaina Calcott-Cribb. I look forward to getting further updates from them in the near course. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EI move, That the committee report progress and sit again presently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EProgress to be reported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u00227206cd54253f465297335393cb245866\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227206cd54253f465297335393cb245866\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill and reports it has made progress on the bill. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20250910daa863075854411f8d38a093b010f3b8000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002271acb920f5d04937948440786dc6611c\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 10 SEPTEMBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b401005626c0413d8cb10b09e67bba2d\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 11 September 2025)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9b6804e94cb4d78b34612ed4cf8d610\u0022\u003ETe Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223405cf98ac994d75932c792ce23ff323\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0ae45e515fd448095c1047b61a7ceae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0ae45e515fd448095c1047b61a7ceae\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is resumed for the extended sitting. I call on Government order of the day No. 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u0022887482e1083143e99207f9b79339515b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022887482e1083143e99207f9b79339515b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement on Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022edfb79a51bf64689bd81052a13ab4b43\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave has been sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? There is none. That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df541cc25a9547aaad8e2b2608af28c2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 11 November 2025 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting, except during oral questions, during any evening on a day in which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there\u2019s been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EE te paepae manukura o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Me Ng\u0101puhi hoki, ko t\u0113nei taku mihi atu ki a koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou i t\u0113nei r\u0101 mana nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EKororipo P\u0101, kia ora. Tihei mauri ora ki a t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E[To the leadership council of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, greetings. And Ng\u0101puhi also, I hereby acknowledge you, greetings. Greetings to you on this auspicious day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EKororipo P\u0101, hello. Vitality and wellbeing to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EIn August, Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust and the Crown signed the Tuhinga Whakaae o te Tuku T\u014Dmua o Kororipo P\u0101, which is the deed of on-account vesting of Kororipo P\u0101. The deed provides for the Crown vesting Kororipo P\u0101 in Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust and acknowledges Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust will hold the site as kaitiaki on behalf of all Ng\u0101puhi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003ETo members of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and the wider Ng\u0101puhi wh\u0101nau, including many who have travelled from the Far North to witness the first reading of this bill in person, and to those watching online or listening on their crystal sets back home, I extend a warm welcome. I acknowledge those, too, of te whare tapu o Ng\u0101puhi\u2014the sacred house of Ng\u0101puhi, to whom Kororipo P\u0101 is also held in great esteem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EFor those who aren\u2019t familiar with Kororipo P\u0101, it\u2019s located on the banks of the Kerikeri River, in what is now the Kerikeri Basin historic precinct, an area rich in the history of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and their Ng\u0101puhi wh\u0101nau. At Kororipo P\u0101, you\u2019re walking in the footsteps of the Chief Hongi Hika, the renowned and feared Ng\u0101puhi warrior, diplomat, and strategist. As with many p\u0101, the site was chosen for its strategic significance. From Kororipo P\u0101, you can see and respond to both landward and seaward threats. Because of its location, it was a military stronghold where ng\u0101 hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi would assemble before going to war. More than that, though, it was also a place where the rangatira of Ng\u0101puhi hap\u016B would meet to discuss together the issues of the day, and when Europeans came to these shores, it became a place of learning and of trade between Ng\u0101puhi and missionaries and settlers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EAs early interactions between M\u0101ori and Europeans progressed, there were often land transactions conducted between people with very different understandings of land holdings and led to many misunderstandings and disputes. Before the signing of Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014the Treaty of Waitangi\u2014Governor Hobson promised M\u0101ori and the Crown would inquire into these preTreaty land transactions and return any lands unjustly held. The British missionary James Kemp claimed he purchased Kororipo P\u0101 as part of a larger land purchase in 1838. The Crown investigated this claim in a commission process that drew criticism and which was challenged both at the time and since. The Crown ultimately granted title to Kororipo P\u0101 to Kemp in 1859. Ng\u0101puhi consistently challenged that decision, rejecting the sale, and have also challenged successive ownership transfers, including the transfer of the p\u0101 to the Crown on 24 May 1957.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EIn 1994, Ng\u0101puhi hap\u016B, including rangatira Manga Tau, Mac Taylor, and Hon\u0113 M\u012Btai, met at Whitiora Marae to discuss Kororipo P\u0101, and Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia were confirmed as kaitiaki of the site on behalf of Ng\u0101puhi. That led to Tuau Ahiroa Kemp lodging Wai 492 in the Waitangi Tribunal in 1995, on behalf of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and Ng\u0101puhi, seeking the return of the p\u0101. Two other Wai claims were later lodged with the same intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003ENg\u0101ti R\u0113hia and your wider Ng\u0101puhi wh\u0101nau, I acknowledge the efforts of so many people over many years to have the p\u0101 returned. The work has been a significant burden to you and your hap\u016B and your iwi. I thank the Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia team, under the guidance of Kipa Munro and Nora Rameka\u2014kia ora, Kipa and Nora\u2014for their work with me and the Minister of Conservation, my good friend Tama Potaka, on this process. I also want to acknowledge the initial work of Andrew Little and the previous Government, which started off this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EThe bill will vest Kororipo P\u0101 in Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust, the governance entity for Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, it will save historic reserve status in public assets, and it will remain on New Zealand\u2019s tentative Unesco World Heritage List, reflecting its international importance. This will be the first redress provided to Ng\u0101puhi as part of the Treaty settlement process. Providing redress on account of a future comprehensive Treaty settlement is not the usual Crown approach. However, in 2022, the Crown agreed to progress this negotiation on an exceptional basis as a gesture of good faith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased that the Crown has recently recognised the mandate of Te Whakaaetanga Trust, a Bay of Islands hap\u016B grouping, and to see the progress that other Ng\u0101puhi hap\u016B groupings are making in seeking a mandate to progress the wider settlement. Ng\u0101 hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi are organising, and I look forward to the day we\u2019re able to work together to progress a Treaty settlement. As I said in the gathering this morning, Kororipo P\u0101 is the place from where many consequential journeys began in our history, and let\u2019s hope the return of the site, similarly, is the beginning of another very consequential journey for Ng\u0101puhi\u2014the many hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi\u2014and also for the nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003EThe select committee will hear and consider submissions. I look forward to helping to progress this bill through the House. Given the limited scope of the bill, I hope that a third reading can take place before the end of the year, and so that\u2019s the intention there. It\u2019s our hope and aspiration that we will soon be able to gather in the new year to celebrate the return of this important site to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia on behalf of the broader Ng\u0101puhi, and that this will signal the start. It is significant in its own right and a significant gesture and a significant place that is returned, but it is also the start of a broader discussion as well, and, on that basis, I commend this bill to the House. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u00229c54f75d4354483e839e2675a67e1e90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c54f75d4354483e839e2675a67e1e90\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2e8223c65134530ad3ef6c5e76a2f50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2e8223c65134530ad3ef6c5e76a2f50\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I te mea k\u0101re au i whai w\u0101hi ki roto i ng\u0101 mihimihi i tau ki runga i \u014Dku whanaunga i te ata nei, ka t\u0101pae ake i w\u0113nei kupu ki runga i a r\u0101tou, me te tangi au\u0113 ki te hunga mate kua wehe atu ki te p\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI a au e noho ana ki roto i te p\u014Dhiri i te ata nei, i hoki atu \u014Dku mahara ki t\u014D t\u0101tou p\u0101p\u0101, ki a Judah Heihei. I te hui mate o T\u0101mati Par\u0101one me te totohe ka takoto te kaum\u0101tua ki hea. Me te k\u014Drero a Judah Heihei ki \u014Dku ake o Ng\u0101ti Te Ara, o Ng\u0101ti K\u014Dpaki, \u201CE, t\u014Dia mai te rangatira ki roto i a au, ki roto i a Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, ko reira takoto ai.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D ko te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113r\u0101 k\u014Drero hei tohu whakamaumahara ake ki ng\u0101 whakapapa ki waenganui i a t\u0101tou. K\u0101re au i te w\u0101w\u0101hi a Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia a Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, a Ng\u0101puhi a Ng\u0101puhi, kahore. Ka k\u012B ake ahau ki a t\u0101tou katoa, me ng\u0101 whanaunga o te k\u0101inga, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. Nau mai, haere mai. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EPikauria mai ng\u0101 mate huhua o te w\u0101. N\u0101 kua k\u014Drero atu ahau i te \u0101huatanga o Judah, \u0101, me te tini o r\u0101tou kua ngaro atu ki te p\u014D. Kotahi tonu te k\u014Drero ki a r\u0101tou: haere mai, haere. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EKa whakahokia mai ng\u0101 r\u0101rangi k\u014Drero ki a t\u0101tou. Kia m\u014Dhio mai koutou, e ng\u0101 whanaunga, kei te tautoko m\u0101tou i ng\u0101 mahi o t\u0113nei pire, me ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a te Minita in\u0101ia tata ake nei. Ko te \u0101huatanga o t\u0113nei pire me te hiahia kia k\u014Dkiri ng\u0101 mahi a t\u0113nei Whare kia tutuki r\u0101 an\u014D t\u0113nei kaupapa, me t\u014D k\u014Drero, e kara, e Kipa, ka tau atu an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa ki t\u014Dna whakatutukitanga ki runga i t\u014D t\u0101tou k\u0101inga, ki Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EE m\u014Dhio ana koe, koutou, ki te \u0101huatanga o te hunga porotiki, ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou mahi he kuti i te r\u012Bpene, engari e m\u014Dhio ana au ko te nuinga o ng\u0101 mahi i oti i a koutou, i oti i \u014D koutou m\u0101tua, \u014D koutou t\u016Bpuna i roto i ng\u0101 tau. N\u014D reira e mihi atu ana ahau ki t\u0113r\u0101 whakaaro nui kia tat\u016B t\u0101tou katoa, hei t\u014Dna tutukitanga, ki runga i te w\u0101 k\u0101inga. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EKua rongo atu ahau i te k\u014Drero a te Minita, me te tautoko m\u014D te \u0101huatanga o ng\u0101 ker\u0113me wh\u0101nui ki roto i a t\u0101ua, o Ng\u0101puhi. Me te k\u012B atu ka whakaaro nui ake ahau ki w\u014D t\u0101ua whanaunga ki roto o \u014Ctaua. Ka whai whakaaro nui an\u014D au ki te tini o ng\u0101 hap\u016B ki roto o Ng\u0101puhi e tiro atu ana ki w\u014D r\u0101tou w\u0101hi tapu, ki w\u014D ratou p\u0101 k\u0101inga, me te hiahia ki te k\u012B atu ki a r\u0101tou anei he tohu o t\u0113tahi huarahi ka taea e t\u0101tou te k\u014Dkiri ng\u0101tahi. N\u0101 koutou t\u0113r\u0101 mahi, n\u0101 Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia me \u014Dna k\u0101rangarangatanga maha te mahi nui hei tohu ki a Ng\u0101puhi wh\u0101nui. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u0100e, me anga whakamua t\u0101tou. Me k\u014Dkiri tahi t\u0101tou ki roto i ng\u0101 hiahia, kaua o \u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna anake, engari m\u014D \u0101 t\u0101tou tamariki mokopuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, i a au e p\u0101nui atu ana i te pire, \u0101e, kua kite atu ahau i ng\u0101 kupu me ng\u0101 k\u014Drero M\u0101ori o te horopaki kei roto i te pire. E tautoko atu ana ahau i t\u0113r\u0101 \u0101huatanga, me te t\u014Dt\u014D nei i toku ng\u0101kau ki roto i \u0113nei mahi, n\u0101 te mea ka whakaaro ake ahau ki te tini o ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna k\u0101re i konei i t\u0113nei w\u0101 tonu. Ka whakaaro ake ahau ki a Rei Kapa, ki a Te Huranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u0100e m\u0101rika, ka noho tangi ahau, ka noho koreto ahau m\u014D te \u0101huatanga ki w\u014D t\u0101tou m\u0101tua t\u016Bpuna n\u0101 r\u0101tou k\u0113 t\u0113nei mahi i whakarite m\u014D ng\u0101 whakatupuranga ki konei, me ng\u0101 whakatupuranga \u0101 taihoa ake nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira \u0101 taihoa ake ka tukuna atu t\u0113nei ki te Komiti Take M\u0101ori kia \u0101ta rangona ng\u0101 k\u014Drero a t\u0113n\u0101, a t\u0113n\u0101 e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei pire, me te hiahia kia hoki ora mai an\u014D koutou ki roto i te p\u0101nuitanga tuarua, tuatoru ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare hei te otinga o te tau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EKa mutu, e \u014Dku rangatira, i te mea \u0101 te wiki e t\u016B nei ko Te Wiki o te Reo M\u0101ori, i te mea an\u014D \u0101 te R\u0101tapu ko taku r\u0101 wh\u0101nau t\u0113n\u0101, ka kite atu an\u014D t\u0101tou i a t\u0101tou ki te w\u0101 k\u0101inga. Ko te inoi kia tae ora atu r\u0101 koutou ki raro i ng\u0101 manaakitanga o te Kaihanga ki t\u014D t\u0101tou w\u0101 k\u0101inga, huri huri noa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana i t\u0113nei pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E[Because I did not have an opportunity during the formal greetings that were laid upon my relations this morning, I will offer these words to them, as I grieve for those who have passed into the night. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EAs I sat during the formal welcome this morning, my memories returned to our patriarch, Judah Heihei. At the funeral of T\u0101mati Par\u0101one, the debate was about where this elder would lie in state. And Judah Heihei said to my people of Ng\u0101ti Te Ara and Ng\u0101ti K\u014Dpaki, \u201CHey, convey this chief among my people, among Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, to lie in state there.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EHowever, the intention of that statement was a reminder of the genealogical connections between us. I am not causing division, Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia is Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, Ng\u0101puhi is Ng\u0101puhi, not at all. I would say to all of us, and my relations from home, greetings. Welcome, welcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EBring with you the many recently deceased. Now, I have spoken a bit about Judah, and the many who have been lost to the night. There is but one thing to say to them: welcome, rest in peace. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003ELet the lines of discourse now return to us. You should know, my relatives, we support the actions of this bill, and the statements of the Minister immediately prior. The nature of this bill, and also the desire that the actions of this House continue until this initiative reaches its conclusion, and your statement, my friend, Kipa, we will all reach its resolution at our home, at Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EYou, all of you, are aware the nature of politicians, what we do is cut ribbons, but I know that the majority of the work was done by you, it was done by your forebears and your ancestors over the years. Therefore, I acknowledge that important idea that all of us, upon its completion, all go home. And, therefore, I greet you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI have heard the comments of the Minister, and I support the nature of the wide claims among our people, Ng\u0101puhi. I must say that I think fondly of our relatives in \u014Ctaua. I also think fondly of the many hap\u016B within Ng\u0101puhi that look to their sites of significance, to their homelands, and I\u2019d like to say to them here is a symbol of the pathway that we can all advance along together. You accomplished that, it was Ng\u0101ti Rehia and all its many affiliations that did the major work as a representation of all of Ng\u0101puhi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EYes, we should face the future. We should progress together with the desires, not of our forebears and ancestors alone, but for our children and grandchildren. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003ETherefore, as I was reading the bill, yes, I have seen the words and M\u0101ori statements of the context within the bill. I support that aspect, and I draw my heart with me into this work, because I consider the many ancestors who are not here at this time. I think of Rei Kapa and Te Huranga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EOh, yes, I continue to grieve, I continue to weep for the circumstances of our forebears and ancestors who actually did all of this to prepare for the current generations, and the generations of the near future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EAnd so, soon, this will be handed over the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee so that everyone\u2019s statements can be clearly heard regarding this bill, and my desire is that you all return in good health for the second and third readings within this House at the end of the year. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EFurthermore, noble leaders, because next week is M\u0101ori Language Week, and also because Sunday is my birthday, we will see each other again at home. I pray that you all arrive at our home healthy and well under the care of the Creator, everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI commend this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022 data-id=\u00224808cf96cb5c4d4ebc5aa96753b9d687\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224808cf96cb5c4d4ebc5aa96753b9d687\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Speaker. Kia ora to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia as kaitiaki of ng\u0101 hapu o Ng\u0101puhi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EThe Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations said that the hap\u016B wanted to expedite the settlement at Kororipo, and I said, \u201COK, I\u2019ll go and talk to my other boss\u2014apart from Chl\u00F6e\u2014H\u016Bhana Lyndon.\u201D She said, \u201CWell, we\u2019ll see about that.\u201D She got on the phone to the aunties and she said, \u201CThere\u2019s complexities, but\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222298e3f90bd941cab353197477c6a9c2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb3712edfa7a43b38bbdc4e7be05a576\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL\u003C/span\u003E: \u0100e. This is a parcel of land that is of great historic significance to Ng\u0101puhi. Today marks one part on a very long journey to get the rightful return of that land to its rightful owners. Even reading the history of the efforts to get acknowledgment that it was inconceivable that Hongi Hika would have ever parted with the sacred and tapu p\u0101\u2014over the course of nearly 200 years; reading that history gave me chest pains. In the 1930s, a judge acknowledged that it was not possible that it was ever the intention of the chief to part with the sacred site, and there seemed to be movement towards return and restoration. Then, enmities between judges and officials on the P\u0101keh\u0101 side led to further delays and the land was not returned, and more years passed and decades passed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EThis sense of a people languishing in intergenerational alienation from what they know is theirs\u2014this is the story of tangata whenua M\u0101ori across the rohe and across our country. This story is no more strongly illustrated by the history of Kororipo P\u0101 and the unrelenting efforts of iwi to have the p\u0101 returned to them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EIf we are to have a nation that is genuinely founded in a principle of fairness and justice, we must address the issue of land alienation from tangata whenua M\u0101ori. This, today, is but one step further towards that correction of injustice. These settlements are deemed as full and final, but from the point of view of Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki, if it is not full\u2014and these settlements are always but a fraction of what has been lost\u2014it cannot be final. The relationship with tangata whenua M\u0101ori that the Crown must maintain must be based on a principle of mutual respect, and that is an ongoing living relationship as embodied in our founding agreement, Te Tiriti o Waitangi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EWe have a couple of specific questions about this settlement yet to ask: we\u2019d like to understand why it is 4.4 acres, not the original 6 acres; why perhaps more land could not have been offered by the Crown. We\u2019d like to understand why there is not guaranteed land access to the p\u0101 site. We\u2019d like to understand why there is not the first right of refusal on the part of the iwi, should the Crown choose to dispose of the conservation land. These are things that would make the settlement stronger, in our view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EIt has been a huge journey for Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and for Ng\u0101puhi to get this land rightfully returned. At those hearings in the 1930s, witnesses deemed Kororipo P\u0101 to be the biggest and most important p\u0101 of the Ng\u0101puhi tribe. Finally, today, the bill returns the site; it is the beginning of that return to its rightful owners. So, Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, as kaitiaki of ng\u0101 hapu o Ng\u0101puhi, we as Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u00220e45b53ad26d44a7bbd680aa1b649b3d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e45b53ad26d44a7bbd680aa1b649b3d\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill. This bill gives effect to the deed of on-account vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 signed between the Crown and Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust on 1 August 2025. It provides for the vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 Historic Reserve in the trust as part of a much-anticipated comprehensive Treaty settlement with wider Ng\u0101puhi. This vesting recognises historic and cultural significance of the site and returns it to mana whenua on an on-account basis ahead of that full settlement. It makes Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust the administering body for the purpose of the Reserves Act, and that is appointed to control and manage Kororipo P\u0101. It\u2019s putting safeguards in place that make sure the land is kept safe from financial things such as mortgages and being held as security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EOn the site itself, I acknowledge members from Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia today and wider Ng\u0101puhi. Thank you for coming here, travelling to hear us speak on this today. Kororipo P\u0101 holds a longstanding place in New Zealand\u2019s early history. The p\u0101 site sits at the head of the Kerikeri River, a beautiful location\u2014I haven\u2019t been there since I was about nine years old, but I do remember it being quite beautiful. It was chosen for its strategic importance, where Ng\u0101puhi could have a place of defence, decision making, and gathering. The Ng\u0101puhi rangatira would assemble to discuss important matters of the day, as well as prepare for war. It was the centre of political life in the North and still echoes today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EKororipo P\u0101 is the ground that was once a powerful centre for and of Ng\u0101puhi authority. The p\u0101 was not only a home but a launching place\u2014the very site where tau\u0101 were assembled, provisioned, and sent out under the leadership of rangatira like Hongi Hika. From here, tau\u0101 travelled the length of the coast, carrying with them new forces of muskets. Historic accounts tell us that their reach extended deep into Tauranga Moana\u2014where I am, and many other iwi, in my part of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve sat here, I\u2019ve thought about times I\u2019ve spent with friends in places like Ru\u0101toki and places on the Whakat\u0101ne River, hearing stories about some of those incursions. Ng\u0101ti Awa friends, Ng\u0101ti Rangi friends, who have told me of the way in which those times of upheaval and change shaped relationships between iwi in the area and across the country, and altered the balance of power across Te Moana-a-Toi. Today, I think about that, but I also acknowledge the mana that Kororipo P\u0101 has, and the enduring legacy that these events that launched from this base have had on Northland, on the Bay of Plenty, on Tauranga, and Mauao.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003EThe ownership was complicated. In 1838, missionary James Kemp claimed to have purchased the p\u0101, the area. The title changed hands under the old claims process, which, as has been acknowledged by previous speakers, was not a centre of clarity and fairness, and carried, over the last couple of hundred years, a lot of grievances that have built up. The title was granted, revoked, reissued. It\u2019s been a long time coming, but what is clear now is that the right decision for Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust to be vested with this p\u0101 has been reached. I acknowledge the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations for his words, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022 data-id=\u0022e21ea15ec18546dc913aef7947af69ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e21ea15ec18546dc913aef7947af69ae\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Tihei mauri ora. Ko te t\u012B, ko te t\u0101, ko te weu, ko te aka, ko te aka matua e here nei i a t\u0101tou. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 karangatanga maha o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, ka nui te mihi atu n\u0101 t\u0113nei uri n\u014D Te Popoto i Utakura. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EE kore e mimiti te mamae i riro whenua atu, otir\u0101 ng\u0101 w\u0101hi tapu p\u0113r\u0101 tonu i te Kororipo. Riro whenua atu, hoki whenua mai. Ahakoa he iti, he t\u012Bmatanga t\u0113nei. M\u0101 konei ka t\u016B rangatira an\u014D te mana M\u0101ori, ka p\u016B\u0101wai te hap\u016B me ng\u0101 uri whakatupu. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D ko te whenua te wai\u016B m\u014D ng\u0101 uri whakatupu. M\u0101 konei ka ora te iwi. T\u0113nei ka mihi, t\u0113nei ka mihi, t\u0113nei ka mihi ki a t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003E[Wellbeing and vitality to all. To all directions, the prime fibre, the vine, the principal vine that binds us all. To the authorities, the representatives, the many relatives of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, many greetings of this descendant of Te Popoto i Utakura. Greetings and thanks to you, indeed to all of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EThe pain of land loss will never diminish, indeed the sacred sites like Kororipo. As land was lost, it will be returned. Despite being diminutive, this is a beginning. It is through this that the M\u0101ori authority will stand strong again, the hap\u016B and future generations will flourish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EHowever, the land is what nourishes the future descendants. It is through this that the people will achieve wellbeing. I hereby greet and thank all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI stand on behalf of New Zealand First in support of Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill, and I bring warmest greetings from the Rt Hon Winston Peters and my colleague the Hon Shane Jones\u2014Matua Shane to all those in the House who have joined us today from Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia\u2014on this significant day. The vesting bill facilitates the vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 Historic Reserve\u2014although relatively small in size, extremely large in importance, not just for Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia but for the wider Ng\u0101puhi people\u2014and it will be invested on account, as a step toward a future comprehensive Ng\u0101puhi Treaty settlement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like also to extend particular acknowledgment to Kipa Munro and Nora Rameka. Matua Shane wanted to make sure I sent greetings to you and acknowledged the work you\u2019ve been doing in keeping the area in beautiful condition, mowing the lawns and taking care of it. He particularly wanted to acknowledge you for that, for your kaitiaki of this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EThis vesting bill puts on account for the future, fuller Ng\u0101puhi Treaty settlement, and that\u2019s an important step to be taken. I\u2019d just like to reflect back to more than 10 years ago now, when I first got involved in and observed Ng\u0101puhi politics. My whanaunga Rudy Taylor, upon meeting him up at Waitangi one time, for the very first time, embraced me and brought me into the clutches of Te Kotahitanga o Ng\u0101 Hap\u016B Ng\u0101puhi, and from there I ventured around the North, learning about not just who I am but who my people are, as we traversed the Te Paparahi o Te Raki hearings and went to various hui around the North. I know that Rudy would be extremely pleased with this step towards this piece of land being vested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EOne of Northland\u2019s most historic sites is Kororipo P\u0101, and the return of it represents not only the restoration of a sacred space but also that step towards reconciliation. I want to quickly talk about a little bit of oral history that I\u2019ve been told about, in terms of Kororipo meaning the swirling waters. When Hongi Hika got his warriors together, when the taua set out for their various war parties, they would get into their waka, preparing for their journeys, preparing for their voyages, and they would paddle about, getting into the right formation. They would circle around, and as they were circling around, they would be creating this swirling, and that\u2014using the natural forces of taiao\u2014would launch them off into the awa and out off into the sea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003EIt was also a very strategically placed piece of whenua, where rangatira would come, where they would hui, and it is rightful now that we begin this process of the return, because the pain of loss of land does not fade, especially when it\u2019s land of such sacred importance as Te Kororipo. This is a small step that we are taking today, but it is a beginning. The land is a substance of generations yet to come. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u0022f81f4f5506544daaa725362d597fedd3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f81f4f5506544daaa725362d597fedd3\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E Nora and Kipa, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa\u2014excuse my back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D, he mea an\u014D t\u0113nei. He aha te mea? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E[Anyway, this is something else. What is this thing?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s one thing to come to the House and deliver a speech, which is really well written here, which I\u2019m not going to deliver in quite that way. It is because, when I was walking through, making my way to the House, I come through the door and I walk into the arms of every person that is now sitting up here, and it is quite a different thing. Well, it\u2019s not different to me, actually\u2014it\u2019s not different to many M\u0101ori, and probably many in general\u2014because when you walk into the arms of your people, you bring a different thing into this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhen Kipa says in one of his readings that it is a special thing, that there is real mana in returning the sacred site to its people, that statement in itself tells it all, really, because it reminds us that, in fact, it is Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, Ng\u0101puhi nui tonu, that bring mana to this bill, to this discussion, to this first reading, and to this House, and they bring it with such grace. As I say, you walked in, open arms, crying\u2014we\u2019re crying up there, especially me. That\u2019s one of my reputations, and everyone up there knows that, and it\u2019s because, when tears fall, they fall since 1883. This isn\u2019t just this morning, \u201COh, boo-hoo\u201D; these are tears and emotion and connection that began then, and to this day they still carry that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhen this House is making such a move\u2014in my view, so it should. It is time. When we talk about a first reading, and then we\u2019ll go to the second reading, and then we\u2019ll go to a select committee, and all of that technicality will occur, but so it must\u2014so it must. We owe this. This House and everyone in it owe that debt, and now it is time to pay that debt and to make right what we did wrong. I want to make those points in my brief five-minute speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhen I think about Kororipo, I think about Nora, and the swirling waters and all that lovely k\u014Drero, but let me tell you, when you\u2019re addressing Nora, it\u2019s not a swirling nice little cute thingy; it is a progressive tsunami coming your way, and so it should be\u2014so it should be. Waitai Tua, names that I know\u2014that\u2019s what came to mind for me. I knew I was going to be standing in the House this morning. Don\u2019t cry for me\u2014I\u2019m good; this is just me talking to you all\u2014but it is definitely since 1883, and I would say since 1840, and I might even say since 1835, that these tears will fall from many, because so much was taken\u2014was just taken away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhat is uplifting, though, can I also say, is that the likes of Alana and others\u2014my cousin baby is sitting up here\u2014Raniera. They\u2019re young, they\u2019re vibrant\u2014maybe Babe not so much, but I love him nevertheless. The point being that there is a number of mokopuna rising, and ain\u2019t that exciting? They are rising; they are fully equipped in their tikanga, in their reo. They are fully equipped in their belonging, so they can see Kororipo. When Peeni Henare, my nephew, referred to Reikapa, you know, gee, ka hoki mahara [the memories come back], and it\u2019s a long time since even I have said that name. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EToday is a very important day, because it\u2019s a teaching moment for this House. Each time we go into these spaces to do with our sacred sites, our places of belonging, our M\u0101ori places, in this House, there\u2019s another energy that\u2019s brought to it, and we are better off every time it occurs. To all my whanaunga\u2014excuse my back\u2014I love you, I am here for you, and it is a special and important thing, and a privilege that I get to stand and speak in this House with love. Kia ora t\u0101tou. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u002281da379103544aa0afb90b8d5320ed78\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281da379103544aa0afb90b8d5320ed78\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation):\u003C/span\u003E Ka t\u016B whakahirahira te r\u0101t\u0101, ka hinga katoa te k\u0101kano, ka tupu an\u014D, \u0101, ko ng\u0101 reo a mihi ki te hunga kua ngaro mai i a Nuku-te-apiapi ki a Nuku-te-mahara. Katoa r\u0101tou kua nunumi atu i tua o Pae Maumahara. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EHoki mai ki a t\u0101tou, ng\u0101 urup\u0101 kanohi o r\u0101tou kua ngaro i te tirohanga tangata, t\u0101tou e whakak\u012Bk\u012B i ng\u0101 h\u016B nui, koutou e kawe nei i ng\u0101 h\u016B nui o Eru Pou m\u0101, Cynthia Te Iwingaro m\u0101, r\u0101tou katoa kua memene atu ki te p\u014D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EHoki mai ki a t\u0101tou, k\u0101piti r\u0101tou, k\u0101piti t\u0101tou e tuitui nei. Koutou o te whare tapu o Ng\u0101puhi, koutou o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, haramai ki t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata e t\u016B nei. E k\u012Bia ana te k\u014Drero, koutou o te puna taniwha, te puna tupua o Kororipo, nau mai ki te ana raiona o Te Upoko o Te Ika, me k\u012B te whiore ki te pane o te motu, \u0101, \u0101kuanei ka whakatinanahia ng\u0101 uaratanga ki roto ki te tuhinga whakaae o te tuku t\u014Dmua o Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EMe ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna ki r\u014D wai. Ki a m\u0101tou hoki o Te Awa Tupua mai i Pari-te-tai-tonga ki Te Matapihi, ko te k\u014Drero \u201CKauaka e k\u014Drero m\u014D t\u014D awa, engari k\u014Drero ki t\u014D awa\u201D. Koiraka hoki te k\u012Banga k\u014Drero e whakamataara nei i te hinengaro whakaaro i t\u0113nei w\u0101. Kaua e k\u014Drero m\u014D Kororipo, engari k\u014Drero atu ki Kororipo. M\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 hoki e kitea ai te w\u0101nanga, e kitea ai te m\u0101ramatanga hoki kei mua i te aroaro o te tangata. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EKoutou ng\u0101 uri whakaheke a Ruatara me \u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna ki r\u014D wai, nau mai, nau piki mai, nau kake mai ki t\u0113nei w\u0101hi, te whakarewatanga hoki i \u0113nei k\u014Drero, i \u0113nei w\u0101nanga, i \u0113nei m\u0101nuka takoto. I t\u0113r\u0101 tau, ta\u2019i noa te m\u014D\u2019io o te tangata nei, t\u014D koutou taokete nei ki ng\u0101 k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki te hiahia, ki te wawata, ki te minamina o t\u0113n\u0101, o t\u0113n\u0101 kia hoki te taitara o Kororipo ki roto i a koutou o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, me te mea nei ko te matamomoe, ko te matakak\u0101, ko te matauraura, engari ko te matakanohi o ng\u0101 t\u016Bpuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EE k\u012Bia ana te k\u014Drero kua roa te w\u0101 e noho ana a Te Papa Atawhai me t\u014Dna ingoa ki runga i te taitara o Kororipo, engari k\u0101ore e roa m\u0101 taku m\u0101hanga o Remuera nei, P\u0101ora Metek\u014Dura, m\u0101tou katoa o te Whare e whakaae ana ki \u0113nei momo mahi, ka whakahoki i te taitara me t\u014Dna ingoa ki roto i a koutou o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003ETaku matua a Tawa, rongo au ki \u014D k\u014Drero ki te p\u014Dhiri, ki te whakatau i te r\u0101 nei, ko koutou hoki te hoiho. Nei ko koutou te hoiho, ko au te h\u012Bh\u014D. Ehara koutou i te m\u0101t\u0101ika engari he matakanohi m\u014D te whakarewatanga o ng\u0101 ker\u0113me nui me ng\u0101 ker\u0113me maha o Ng\u0101puhi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EKo t\u0101ku ki a Metek\u014Dura, kia manawanui, kia manawaora ki te kawe hoki i t\u0113nei t\u016B\u0101huatanga hei tauira hoki m\u014D ng\u0101 ker\u0113me nui o Ng\u0101puhi Nui Tonu. Me kauaka e taka, e whara, e haere t\u014Dtiti, e haere k\u014Dtiti\u2014haere t\u014Dtiti he p\u0113r\u0101 i ng\u0101 sausage rolls nei\u2014engari kia kaua e haere k\u014Dtiti engari wh\u0101ia kia tika, wh\u0101ia kia mau, wh\u0101ia kia ita, wh\u0101ia kia ita t\u0113nei t\u016B\u0101huatanga. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EKua p\u016Brena te kapu me te ng\u0101kau i te aroha, i te tautoko hoki i a koe, e Kipa, kourua tahi ko te whaea, Nora. N\u0101 k\u014Drua an\u014D au i whakatau ki te t\u0113neti i mua i te toa k\u014Dhatu i te taha o te ahurea me Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira e mihi ana. N\u014D m\u0101tou te whiwhi, n\u0101 m\u0101tou te mihi k\u0101mehameha ki \u0101 koutou mahi rangatira, whakahirahira i te r\u0101 nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EMe te mea nei te k\u0101hui amokura, ko te k\u0101hui amorangi kua kawe mai i te k\u0101meta p\u014Dhutukawa, koutou o te paepae Te Rau Kahikatea e whakap\u016Boro nei i t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare i t\u0113nei w\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EKo te Whare P\u0101remata te h\u0101pai \u014D, ahakoa te p\u0101ti, ahakoa te kara, ahakoa te tae o t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, o t\u0113r\u0101 r\u014Dp\u016B, katoa m\u0101tou e tautoko ana i t\u0113nei kaupapa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EN\u0101 reira k\u0101re au i te whakat\u014Droa i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero, kei te heke mai ng\u0101 hekena o te meneti nei, engari k\u0101ore e roa ko te kaupapa k\u014Drero tuatahi t\u0113nei. \u0100kuanei ka kawea atu ki te motu, engari k\u0101ore e kore, korekore rawa, haramai t\u0113nei \u0101hua. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E[The r\u0101t\u0101 tree stands tall, all the seeds fall, and grow again, and the voices of greetings to those who have passed on from Nuku-te-apiapi to Nuku-te-mahara. All of those who have gone one to the threshold of memory. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EReturning to us, the representative memorial of those who have been lost to humanity\u2019s sight, those of us who fill their big shoes, and you who carry the big shoes of Eru Pou, Cynthia Te Iwingaro, and others, all of them who have gathered in the darkness. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EReturning to us, they have assembled as we do and reaffirm our bonds. Those of you from the sacred hall of Ng\u0101puhi, those of you from Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, welcome to this House of Parliament that stands here. As the saying goes, you of the fountain of powerful and fearsome leadership of Kororipo, welcome to the lion\u2019s den of Wellington, we could say the tail to the head of the nation, and soon the values within the deed of on-account vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 will be implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAnd also the mystical aquatic ancestors. To those of us from Te Awa Tupua from Pari-te-tai-tonga to Te Matapihi, the saying goes \u201CDo not speak about your river, but instead speak to your river\u201D. That is the saying that the erudite mind observes at this time. Do not speak about Kororipo, but instead speak to Kororipo. That will also enable the observance of the discussion and insights before us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EYou, the descendants of Ruatara and other such mystical aquatic ancestors, welcome, welcome, welcome to this place, and also to the launch of these statements, these discussions, and these challenges. Last year, this guy, your brother-in-law, only knew one thing about the narratives relating to the desires, the dreams and aspirations of everyone that the title of Kororipo return to you of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, and so the sleeping giant, the sharp eyes, the luminous eyes, but the eyes that reflect the ancestors. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAs the saying goes, the Department of Conservation and its name have been on the title of Kororipo for a long time, but, before long, my twin from Remuera here\u2014Paul Goldsmith\u2014and all of us of the House will endorse these types of actions, to return the title and its name to you of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EMy uncle, Tawa, I heard your comments at the formal welcome ceremony, the reception today, that you are the horse. Now, if you are the horse, I am the donkey. You are not cannon fodder, but instead a representative for the launch of the significant claims and many claims of Ng\u0101puhi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EWhat I would say to Goldsmith is to be resolute and strong of heart to continue this function as an example for the significant claims of Ng\u0101puhi the Great. Do not fall to infirmity nor injury, by sausage or by the wayside\u2014by sausage like these sausage rolls\u2014but instead to not deviate but pursue it with integrity, pursue it so it is firmly established, pursue it so that it lasts, pursue it so this endeavour endures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EMy cup and heart overflow with compassion, and also with support for you, Kipa, both yourself and the matriarch, Nora. It was the two of you who received me in the tent in front of the rock shop beside the podium and Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAnd so I thank you. The honour is ours, and the enormous thanks are ours for your noble and significant work today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAnd also the company of executive and spiritual leadership who have brought here the p\u014Dhutukawa scarf, those of you of the Te Rau Kahikatea panel that brings music to our House at this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EThe House of Parliament are the workers behind the scenes, regardless of party, regardless of the flag, regardless of the colour of each and every party, we are all in support of this work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003EAnd so I will not prolong the speeches, the seconds of this minute are falling, but it won\u2019t be long, this is initial subject of discussion. Soon it will be put before the nation, but without a doubt\u2014none at all\u2014it will be awesome. Greetings to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022813769098e294a5c9f42873056cc0fd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022813769098e294a5c9f42873056cc0fd4\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e ng\u0101 karangatanga maha, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koutou i runga i te kaupapa whakahirahira o te ata nei, otir\u0101 ko te p\u0101nuitanga tuatahi o te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EKo Tokerau te t\u016Btei ki te hauraro o te p\u016Baha o R\u0101kaumangamanga ki te r\u0101whiti e rere atu nei ki Te Kerei Mang\u014Dnui, te awa o ng\u0101 rangatira. E t\u016B mai r\u0101 te p\u0101 o Kororipo. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker. To the authorities, the representatives, the many relatives, greetings to you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EGreetings to you with regards to the significant work of the morning, indeed the first reading of the Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003ETokerau is the sentry to the north wind from the mouth of R\u0101kaumangamanga in the east, Te Kerei Mang\u014Dnui is the river of the nobility. There stands Kororipo P\u0101.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EKororipo P\u0101 is not just a place; it is a taonga that has been handed down, rich with the past, the present, and the future of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia o Ng\u0101puhi. It is filled with mana and woven deeply into the identity with those who descend from this land. Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill is the product of decades of work, dialogue between Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and the Crown. It is not just symbolic; it is about taking some tangible steps to recognise the long-lasting and enduring relationship Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia have with this whenua and righting a longstanding historical injustice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThe story of Kororipo P\u0101 reflects the much broader story of M\u0101ori-Crown relations over the years, one that is difficult and filled with pain. M\u0101ori have been contesting the Crown\u2019s title for this piece of land for more than decades. Despite numerous attempts to raise these concerns, rights have been consistently diminished through under-investment, exclusion from decision making, and a Crown process that has repeatedly failed to uphold a genuine partnership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThe Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill represents a significant milestone in the Crown\u2019s movement to begin addressing these historical injustices. It gives legal effect to specific provisions contained in the deed of settlement on account of vesting Kororipo P\u0101 as agreed to by the Crown and Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust. Most notably, the bill vests the title of Kororipo P\u0101 in Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust and formally recognises that role as kaitiaki in law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EI want to be clear that this bill does not grant kaitiakitanga or mana whenua, for those have never been lost. What it does affirm in legislation is a responsibility that has always existed. For Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, this recognition is not only deserved; it is very much long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EI rise today firmly believing that the passing of this bill is good and a necessary step for redress for Ng\u0101puhi. While I do not wish to draw attention away from Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia or the broader aspirations of their hap\u016B and iwi who have worked tirelessly over the years to bring us to this point in time, it is important that we state that this bill arrives amid an ongoing, strategic attack on Te Tiriti o Waitangi at the hands of this Government, one that has deeply damaged the relationship between the Crown and iwi across Aotearoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EI\u2019m sorry but I cannot speak today and ignore the fact that Te Aka Whai Ora, the M\u0101ori Health Authority, has been disestablished by this Government; the removal of section 7AA, the only Treaty-related cause, from the Oranga Tamariki Act; the introduction of the Treaty principles bill; and, most recently, changes to pay equity legislation, which we know will disproportionately affect M\u0101ori women. This Government cannot claim progress with one hand while stripping away hard-won gains with the other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThis bill is a good thing. It must not be misconstrued as evidence of a Government committing to advancing relationships to M\u0101ori. If anything, this bill stands as a testament to Ng\u0101puhi and the resilience, patience, and unwavering commitment of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, who have pursued injustice through the decades of negotiation. Genuine partnership requires more than symbolic gestures. It demands listening, accountability, and real action, and to achieve this, far more work lies ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira he mihi mahana ki a koutou. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, huihui mai t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E[Therefore, I offer warm regards to you. And so greetings and thanks to you, indeed all of us gathered here.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022 data-id=\u002291e18cf0fb484857a205f355355ff12b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291e18cf0fb484857a205f355355ff12b\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. E ng\u0101 mana, e ng\u0101 reo, e rau rangatira m\u0101, t\u0113nei te mihi mahana ki a koutou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EI wh\u0101nau mai au ki Kaipara. Ko Maungat\u016Broto t\u014Dku w\u0101hi k\u0101inga. Ko Ng\u0101 Puke te p\u0101mu e noho ana ahau. Ko Grant McCallum ahau. Tino h\u016Bm\u0101rie ko ahau te mema P\u0101remata m\u014D Te Taitokerau. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003E[To the authorities, the representatives, the many leaders, I hereby warmly greet you all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EI was born in Kaipara. Maungat\u016Broto is my home. Ng\u0101 Puke is the farm where I live. I am Grant McCallum. I have very humbled to be the member of Parliament for Northland].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EOn 3 February this year, I attended, as the Northland MP, the initialling of the deed of on-account vesting in Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust and the Crown of Kororipo P\u0101. It was one of those balmy Northland February days\u2014no wind, sunny, and warm. Initialling on behalf of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia were Nora Rameka and Kipa Munro. The Hon Paul Goldsmith and the Hon Tama Potaka represented the Crown. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EThe significance of that occasion did not escape anyone. It was the latest important step in the vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 in Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia as its kaitiaki on behalf of Ng\u0101puhi. This was a journey that formally began on 13 February 1993 at the hui of Ng\u0101puhi that was called at Whitiroa Marae to discuss Kororipo P\u0101. At that hui, Ng\u0101puhi rangatira confirmed Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia to be the hap\u016B kaitiaki of the Kerikeri area and, therefore, of Kororipo P\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EIn preparation for this significant occasion, I met with Kipa and Nora in Kerikeri last Friday to ask them about Kororipo P\u0101 and why it was so important to Ng\u0101puhi. The k\u014Drero flowed. We discussed the p\u0101, which is located strategically to command the junction of the Wairoa and Kerikeri rivers. It controlled the major route to the sea from inland Waimate, a heartland of Ng\u0101puhi. The p\u0101, though small, had an impressive defensive position sited to capitalise on a peninsula shape of land, steep embankments, and turbulent waters, hence the name Kororipo, which means swirling waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EKororipo was the meeting place for all Ng\u0101puhi rangatira. They would meet to discuss important political issues and would assemble before going to war. Some of the greatest Ng\u0101puhi chiefs have used Kororipo P\u0101 as their stronghold. Hongi Hika launched devastating raids against other tribes in the North Island after returning from Britain with muskets. Then there was Rewa, who was one of the most powerful rangatira, who succeeded Hongi Hika, and there were tales of T\u0101reha, a powerful rangatira of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, large in both mana and size, often referred to as \u201CT\u0101reha the Giant\u201D\u2014he was almost 7 foot tall.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EIt is a place where ocean meets the fresh water; where M\u0101ori meet P\u0101keh\u0101. Symbols of their meetings still exist today, with the Kororipo P\u0101 overlooking the oldest house in New Zealand, Kemp House, and the oldest stone building in New Zealand, the Stone Store. In many ways, this significant day is more than just the vesting of Kororipo P\u0101 in its kaitiaki, Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia; it is also a reminder of the meeting of two peoples who have built so much together\u2014two peoples who will continue to work together, because that is what Te Tai Tokerau and New Zealand need us all to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002227d19573a8ba4d8283b17374978c8ea2\u0022\u003EWhen I was discussing this significant day with Kipa, he said, \u201CGrant, if I tug my ear, then you\u2019re entering into challenging waters and you would be advised to desist.\u201D I don\u2019t think I\u2019ve observed any ear tugging, Kipa. N\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7c7b813b3e64a2ab93e0fdc27e5327a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7c7b813b3e64a2ab93e0fdc27e5327a\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e \u014Dku whanaunga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, o ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Ng\u0101puhi kei roto i te Whare P\u0101remata, t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare, i t\u0113nei r\u0101. He rawe te kite i a koutou, he rawe kua tae mai t\u0113nei r\u0101. E m\u014Dhio ana ahau, kua roa, kua tino roa ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Ng\u0101puhi, te hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, e whawhai ana m\u014D te p\u0101 o Kororipo me \u0113tahi atu o ng\u0101 take Tiriti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira he r\u0101 nui t\u0113nei. Ehara n\u014D Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia anake, engari m\u014D ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Ng\u0101puhi katoa. N\u014D reira he tino h\u014Dnore m\u014Dku te t\u016B i t\u0113nei r\u0101 i roto i t\u0113nei Whare ki te tautoko i t\u0113nei pire i runga an\u014D i t\u014D koutou whawhai, t\u014D koutou mahi kaha kia tae ki t\u0113nei r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EKa hoki aku mahara ki te tau 2019. Ko t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 kaupapa i runga i Kororipo P\u0101 i taua r\u0101 ko te whakanui i te kaupapa o T\u016Bhono. Ko t\u0113r\u0101 kaupapa ko te t\u016B hono a ng\u0101 iwi e rua, ng\u0101 iwi maha i roto i te Kerikeri kia t\u016B kotahi, e honohono ana ng\u0101 iwi o t\u0113r\u0101 w\u0101hi. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EHe kaupapa rangatira t\u0113r\u0101. I hoatu t\u0113r\u0101 ingoa, o T\u016Bhono, ki te kaupapa, n\u0101 Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia i hoatu t\u0113r\u0101 ingoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira e te whaea, Whaea Nora, e te matua, Matua Kipa, i hoki ahau ki ng\u0101 pikitia o taua r\u0101 me te harikoa an\u014D hoki. I taua r\u0101 i t\u016B ahau ki te k\u014Drero ohorere, and i k\u014Drero ahau e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113tahi kaupapa nui i runga i Kororipo P\u0101 i ng\u0101 w\u0101 o mua. Kia m\u014Dhio t\u0113nei Whare, kia m\u014Dhio hoki a Aotearoa wh\u0101nui i t\u0113nei k\u014Drero: I te tau 1831 i hainatia t\u0113tahi reta ki te k\u012Bngi, ki a K\u012Bngi H\u014Dri. N\u0101, i huihui ng\u0101 rangatira o Ng\u0101puhi, i tuhi r\u0101tou i t\u0113tahi reta, i tonoa atu ki te k\u012Bngi. He aha te take? He aha ng\u0101 kaupapa i roto i taua reta? Well ko te ture kino, ko te t\u016Bkino a ng\u0101 P\u0101keh\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira i tuhi r\u0101tou ki te k\u012Bngi kia whakatikatika \u014Dna ake t\u0101ngata i roto i te Kerikeri. T\u0113r\u0101 pea ko t\u0113tahi atu take ko ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata W\u012Bw\u012B i hiahia ki te haere mai ki te whawhai ki a Aotearoa, ki a Ng\u0101puhi an\u014D hoki. N\u014D reira i inoi atu r\u0101tou ki te k\u012Bngi m\u0101na e manaaki, e tiaki kia noho i runga i te rongo, me k\u012B. Koir\u0101 te hiahia o ng\u0101 rangatira i taua w\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira he reta tino nui t\u0113r\u0101, and i hainatia i te p\u0101 o Kororipo i mua i te hainatanga o te Whakaputanga, i mua i te hainatanga o te Tiriti o Waitangi. N\u014D reira kia ako, kia m\u014Dhio a Aotearoa wh\u0101nui ki t\u0113nei h\u012Btori e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113r\u0101 o ng\u0101 p\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, taku mihi whakamutunga an\u014D ki te hap\u016B o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, me te tautoko a ng\u0101 hap\u016B o Ng\u0101puhi, kia tae mai t\u0113nei pire ki roto i te Whare i t\u0113nei r\u0101. E tautoko ana m\u0101tou, te r\u014Dpu Reipa, i t\u0113nei pire. E m\u014Dhio ana ahau ka tonoa atu Komiti Whiriwhiri Take M\u0101ori, m\u0101 r\u0101tou e noho ki te whakarongo ki ng\u0101 tono e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei pire, and ko te hiahia \u0101 t\u0113r\u0101 tau, pea, ka kite kua tutuki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, kia ora t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker, indeed greetings to all of my relatives of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, of the hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi within Parliament House, our House, today. It is great to see you; it is great that you have come here today. I am aware that the hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi, the hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, have been fighting for a long time now for the fortress of Kororipo and various other Treaty issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EAnd so this is a significant day. Not only for Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia but also for the hap\u016B of all of Ng\u0101puhi. It is a real honour for me to stand today in this House to support this bill in light of your struggle, and your powerful work to make it to this day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EMy thoughts return to the year 2019. One of the events at Kororipo P\u0101 that day was the celebration of the T\u016Bhono initiative. That initiative was about two iwi, many iwi within Kerikeri standing together as one, the iwi of that place all connecting. That is a noble endeavour. That name, T\u016Bhono, was given to the project, it was Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia that gave that name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EAnd so, madam, Whaea Nora, and sir, Matua Kipa, I went back to the images of that day and I was very pleased. That day, I was surprised to stand and speak, and I spoke about one of the important events that happened at Kororipo P\u0101 in former times. Let this House be aware, let wider Aotearoa be aware of this narrative: in 1831, a letter to the king, to King George was signed. Now, leaders of Ng\u0101puhi assembled and composed a letter which was sent to the king. For what purpose? What were the topics discussed in that letter. Well, it was abysmal legislation, and the abuse of the P\u0101keh\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EAnd so they wrote to the king so that he may straighten out his own people in Kerikeri. Perhaps another topic was the French people who wished to come and fight against Aotearoa, against Ng\u0101puhi also. They requested that the King offer care and protection so that they may live in peace, I should say. That was the desire of the leadership of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EAnd so, my final acknowledgment is to the hap\u016B of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, with the support of the hap\u016B of Ng\u0101puhi, that this bill came into the House today. We, the Labour Party, support this bill. We are aware that it will be sent to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee, who will sit and hear the submissions regarding this bill, and the desire is that next year, perhaps, we will see it come to fruition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003EAnd so greetings and thanks to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022 data-id=\u002215cf4cbbbab94e92aa24ea8953a68311\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215cf4cbbbab94e92aa24ea8953a68311\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Ki ng\u0101 t\u0101ngata o Ng\u0101puhi, Ng\u0101puhi wh\u0101nau nui, me Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, nau mai, haramai ki t\u014D t\u0101tou Whare. N\u014D reira t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003E[To the people of Ng\u0101puhi, the great wh\u0101nau of Ng\u0101puhi, and Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, welcome, welcome to our House. And so greetings and thanks to you, to all of us.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EI take this last call this morning in support of the Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill, a bill that marks a step forward in our journey towards honouring Te Tiriti o Waitangi and restoring mana to the people of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia and the wider Ng\u0101puhi iwi. Kororipo P\u0101 is not just a place; it is a taonga. It\u2019s a site of immense cultural, historical, and spiritual significance. It was once a strategic stronghold, a centre of leadership, and a place where Ng\u0101puhi rangatira gathered to deliberate and define their future. It is woven into the whakapapa of the North.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EThis bill gives legal effect to the deed of on-account vesting signed between the Crown and Te R\u016Bnanga o Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia Trust. It transfers the fee simple estate of Kororipo P\u0101 to the trust and, in doing so, it affirms the right of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia to be the kaitiaki of their whenua, and to guide their future in accordance with tikanga M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003ETo be clear, this is not the end of the journey; it is an on-account redress and perhaps the first step towards a comprehensive Treaty settlement with Ng\u0101puhi. But it is a meaningful step, one that acknowledges past wrongs and begins to restore the relationship between the Crown and tangata whenua. Importantly, the bill ensures that Kororipo P\u0101 will continue to be protected. It will be a place where its shared history can be learnt, honoured, and reflected upon\u2014and an interesting history it has, indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EBack in the day, it was closely associated with conflict, particularly in the early 19th century, but before that, Kororipo P\u0101 was originally occupied by other hap\u016B. In the 1770s, these hap\u016B were displaced by Ng\u0101puhi, and particularly Ngai Tawake and Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, as part of the shifting tribal alliances and expansion. It became a strategic military base for Hongi Hika, as we\u2019ve heard, particularly after his return from England in 1821, where he had acquired hundreds of muskets on his return journey via Sydney. Hongi Hika launched tau\u0101, or war parties, that devastated tribes across the North Island, including in Hauraki, Waikato, Rotorua, Tauranga, East Cape, and Kaipara.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EThese campaigns were part of the Musket Wars, a period of intense intertribal warfare, fuelled by the introduction of firearms. Kororipo P\u0101 was fortified with palisades, trenches, and natural defences like steep embankments and waterways. It served as a meeting place for Ng\u0101puhi rangatira, a site of strategic planning, and a launching point for military expeditions. Kororipo P\u0101 was not only a site of military conflict and strategic planning but also a symbol of Ng\u0101puhi power and their unity during a transformative period of M\u0101ori history. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EThe ownership dispute over the whenua in question began back in 1838, when missionary James Kemp is said to have purchased it and its surrounding land. This transaction was later ratified by the Crown. However, by the 1930s, local M\u0101ori began to question the legitimacy of Kemp\u2019s title. Concerns were raised about whether the land had indeed been properly acquired and whether M\u0101ori had truly consented to its alienation. Together, through a combination of historical land transfers, public giftings, and the designation as a historic reserve, Kororipo P\u0101 is currently administered by the Department of Conservation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EThis bill is about recognition, it is about restoration, it is about respect, it is about giving effect to the promises made under Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and it is about ensuring that the stories of Kororipo P\u0101\u2014its people, its battles, and its legacy\u2014are told not just in history books but by those who carry its whakapapa. I\u2019m very happy to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d8609c612411686d517d0f9b09b28\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022177fe70ec27444d4a3c0b3b81069df9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022177fe70ec27444d4a3c0b3b81069df9e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill be considered by the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EBill referred to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228346905713814c918d1711d3b82d6e0a\u0022\u003EInstruction to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u0022587edaaec2bb4407ad7402ca31c844c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022587edaaec2bb4407ad7402ca31c844c3\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Te Pire Whakahoki i a Kororipo P\u0101/Kororipo P\u0101 Vesting Bill be reported to the House by 11\u00A0November 2025 and that the committee have authority to meet at any time while the House is sitting (except during oral questions), during any evening on a day on which there has been a sitting of the House, on a Friday in a week in which there has been a sitting of the House, and outside the Wellington area, despite Standing Orders 193, 195, and 196.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u00221b7ed959702c40dfa066ccebd5fa9e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b7ed959702c40dfa066ccebd5fa9e43\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E I stand to speak to the motion put forward by the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations in terms of the shortened time frame for reporting back on 11\u00A0November. I want to engage with the Minister and understand the process to be undertaken here, as it is very short. May I address my people of the North, of Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, of Ng\u0101i Tawake and Whangaroa\u2014the whakapapa that sit here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EI ask the question around the fast track of this\u2014it is very fast. Within the whakapapa and the obligations that we have to each other, I am mindful of the many voices and the ability for us to kia horo te \u0101ta haere\u2014may we move forward swiftly, but with careful hands. As honourable k\u0101wanatanga, I support, absolutely, the return of Kororipo to Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia as the entity that was organised and collaborated and led the work through the claims process, as well as out whakapapa in Te Kaikohe, Ng\u0101i Tawake, and Whangaroa who brought forward the voices of our t\u016Bpuna. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003EBut, Minister, I ask: what does that look like in terms of the shortened process? I welcome the ability for us to cut the ribbon and have a h\u0101ng\u012B before Waitangi, but that is very fast. I\u2019m wanting to understand, knowing that we all support this bill in the House, what does that look like? I will participate in the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee. It would be great for us to take the House to Kororipo to feel the wairua, to see the land, to meet the people, and experience those things which weigh heavy on our hearts. Can we do that in a truncated time frame like this? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c808163e145a4a2d9786b39b05337041\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c808163e145a4a2d9786b39b05337041\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Speaker. I rise to support the motion put forward here by the Minister for Treaty of Waitangi Negotiations. In deliberations and discussions with not just the Minister but officials and, more importantly, the people who are in the gallery, and others, we support the motion for the truncated process, acknowledging, though, that it is up to the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on where and when they choose to hold their select committee hearings. But I think that it is a good suggestion that, obviously, if there\u2019s an opportunity to descend upon Kororipo P\u0101 and the place at which they will be discussing and hearing those submissions, I\u2019d fully support that, but, of course, I acknowledge that that is a decision for the committee to make when that time comes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EWhen these matters are negotiated, and negotiated carefully, are, and\u2014as was mentioned at the p\u014Dwhiri this morning about the length of time it\u2019s taken to get here\u2014that was the reason why, on behalf of the Labour Party, I met with the Minister and looked to support this motion. It was not only because of the desire of the people to get this done but also because we know that for a large part of the bills of this nature, it is often the processes of the House that cause delay and cause other challenges for those who it impacts most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI appreciate the comments made by my tuahine H\u016Bhana Lyndon of the Green Party, and I do think that there are parts there that the Minister might want to consider. But I continue to stand in support of the discussions that the Minister and I had with regard to this matter, and support the motion. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022d9930bcd6f754dcb853022138e79c899\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d9930bcd6f754dcb853022138e79c899\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Paul Goldsmith\u2014oh, sorry. No, I\u2019m sorry; I\u2019ve just been advised that because there\u2019s a motion on the Table, a member can speak only once. So, at that point, the question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EWaiata\u2014\u201CNg\u0101 Puawai \u014C Ng\u0101puhi\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003EHaka\u2014\u201CTe Hari o Ng\u0101puhi\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b29476ca9a464404a28089b5387bce5a\u0022\u003EMisuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c0324d6d0a54897b084e7514973c663\u0022\u003EApproval\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022 data-id=\u002228dbc48ecbce41bb833526047a53996c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228dbc48ecbce41bb833526047a53996c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Minister of State for Trade and Investment)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Health: I move, That, pursuant to section 4A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2025 made under section 4 of that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThe Misuse of Drugs Act addresses the prevention of illicit possession, production, and import of drugs. The changes resulting from this order will impose stricter controls on 23 substances, increase the ability of Police and Customs to take preventative action, and allow harsher penalties for those caught making or supplying these drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThe planned changes have been approved by Cabinet, drafted as an Order in Council, tabled in Parliament, and considered by the Health Committee. On behalf of the Minister, I note the Health Committee has examined the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2025 and recommends that it be approved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThe order will reclassify certain controlled drugs to higher-risk classes and introduce a classification for previously uncontrolled drugs. The amendments proposed in this order follow the recommendations of the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs established under the Act. The expert advisory committee is made up of experts who specialise in areas such as pharmacology, toxicology, psychology, public health, and border control. On behalf of the Minister, I\u2019d like to use this opportunity to thank expert advisory committee members for their hard work and expertise. I also thank members of the Health Committee for their diligence around this important issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EPeddlers of illicit drugs are a scourge on society and cause devastating harm to families and communities across the country. Increasing penalties supports law enforcement agencies to crack down on them to maintain law and order. The substances at the heart of this order are harmful, and it is time to act. Fentanyl is a synthetic opioid considered to be far more potent than heroin and many times stronger than morphine, and analogues can often be even stronger still. Currently, some manufactured alterations of fentanyl are classified as class B and C controlled drugs. Their higher potency also makes them attractive to traffickers and users. While New Zealand has relatively low use of illicit opioids, their availability can cause significant public harm. The order seeks to reclassify three of these fentanyl-related substances as class A controlled drugs. The order will result in increased controls on a number of other substances, including synthetic cathinones, synthetic cannabinoids, amphetamine precursors, and novel benzodiazepines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EPeddlers of illicit drugs cause significant harm in our communities and inflict misery on our streets. We know how important it is to reduce drug-related harm, and ensuring there are stronger controls in place for these harmful substances is a step towards this goal. Providing Police and Customs with the search and seizure powers they need to disrupt the supply of harmful substances is an important part of a health response to reduce drug-related harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003EThere has been an increase in the prevalence and misuse of most of these substances in New Zealand; none has any therapeutic use here. New Zealand is party to drug-related United Nations conventions. Classifying these substances will help us meet our international obligations. M\u0101ori and Pacific people are known to have higher rates of recreational drug use and are at a higher risk of drug-related harm. By imposing controls on these substances, access is restricted, reducing drug-related harm to these most vulnerable populations. The changes resulting from this order will ensure authorities have more tools in their tool belt to crack down on these harmful substances. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00223d40255e2a89413c8179accecd5e152e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d40255e2a89413c8179accecd5e152e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002229f94262f1ee43c0bdd981029ae440a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229f94262f1ee43c0bdd981029ae440a5\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Labour supports this notice of motion because what we are doing today, really, is quite a procedural matter, yet it is an important matter to make sure that we are stifling, if you like, the supply of these harmful substances, which we know can do so much damage in our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that this is brought to the House today because of the fundamentals around access to justice and presumption of innocence. What this, effectively, does is change the assumptions around how much somebody is holding of these illicit substances in a strict liability way, which means it reverses a burden of proof, and that\u2019s why it\u2019s really important that this comes before the House and is not simply rubber-stamped. But, equally, it is also important that the law is nimble enough to be able to respond really quickly to the tweaks to the substances that the Minister has just referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI\u2019m particularly concerned about fentanyl. Anyone who has seen any documentaries about the damage that has done in the United States, and the tragic consequences for families, would agree that any type of fentanyl-type tweaked illicit substance should certainly be in the class A categorisation. That does mirror the views of the expert panel, and, therefore, there was no hesitation from the Health Committee to support that recommendation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI do note that, recently, the Environmental Science and Research Ltd has reported that New Zealand is dealing with about 120 new synthetic drugs, and that the UN has reported around one new drug coming into existence per week between the years of 2009 and 2016. We are seeing the involvement of the dark web and technology as a way of proliferating these substances very quickly through societies, and we need our legal response to be equally as nimble, to counteract that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EI would just make a couple of cautionary comments, I guess. One of them is that it\u2019s great to see we have an expert advisory committee truly made up of the experts. I think we need, as parliamentarians, to ensure that when we are enacting committees like this to be formed that we give due respect to their expertise and we do not allow those committees to become politicised. It is something that Labour is watching vigilantly, particularly in the health space. Secondly, I think it\u2019s really important that we not only look at the issue of substance abuse from the supply side but, equally, the demand side and have the wrap-around support services available. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EThere are bigger questions, I think, around some of the provisions of the Misuse of Drugs Act, which will be for a much longer, probably cross-party discussion at some point, to see what we can do to keep people as safe as possible and reduce the harms around drugs. The law as it currently stands, debatably, does that in some respects and doesn\u2019t in other respects. But when it comes to an Order in Council like this one, which is really procedural\u2014it is simply adding to the list of substances and also reclassifying substances appropriately so that it sends the right message to those who would be peddling them; that it has the right penalties involved for those who are enabling them to cause a lot of harm in society. We have no hesitation in supporting that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re really pleased that it\u2019s gone through the select committee process as well. The right checks and balances have been there so that when we are looking at something like changing offences and assumptions in a strict liability way, we are very satisfied that has been done. We are also heartened by the involvement of an advisory committee that is truly made up of the experts. Therefore, we do commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebd5ea31825143ab88bcc4822fa9e9c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebd5ea31825143ab88bcc4822fa9e9c8\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I just want to preface this by noting that the Greens will not be supporting this today, and I would like to step through the logic for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EAs we heard from the Minister of State for Trade and Investment just before, about\u2014I believe she was alluding to the UN Commission on Narcotic Drugs. I was actually there, in 2019, in Vienna, having a really fascinating experience where we had world leader after world leader\u2014the equivalent of the Minister of Health, overseas\u2014get up at the podium and say, \u201CWe have more drugs, more harm from those drugs, more families torn apart, more people who are locked up in prisons. We have to keep doing more of what we\u2019ve always done but do it harder.\u201D Mr Speaker, I don\u2019t know about you, but the way that I was raised taught me that doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the definition of insanity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EI just want to pick up on, particularly, the points that both the Minister and the Labour spokesperson Ingrid Leary just alluded to with regards to the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs. The expert advisory committee was an amendment made to the Misuse of Drugs Act to allow for the classification to be recommended by the expert advisory committee in, I believe, the early 2000s. The really important thing to understand about the way that the expert advisory committee operates\u2014and their mandate\u2014is that they can only recommend where a substance should be classified in relation to where other substances are currently classified within the Misuse of Drugs Act. In layman\u2019s terms, that basically means that all the expert advisory committee can look at is the harm of substances that are currently classified and recommend the classification relative to those other classified substances. That is, the expert advisory committee is not empowered to make recommendations with regard to other health-based, evidence-based interventions to actually reduce drug harm. It is therefore self-referential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThis is underscored by successive reports that successive Governments have commissioned and then ignored because it is politically inconvenient, stretching all the way back to the Law Commission\u2019s review back in 2011, which said that we need to bin the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 and create a health-based framework to actually reduce drug harm and target the causes not the symptoms. Then, of course, the former Government commissioned He Ara Oranga, which was the mental health and addiction inquiry, which said\u2014wait for it\u2014exactly the same thing. Then Turuki! Turuki!, the Safe and Effective Justice review, chaired by the late great Chester Borrows, who was, of course, a former policeman, a former National Party Minister of Police, who came around to the view, based on all of his experiences including with the failure of placing these issues within the framework of the criminal justice system. He recommended, again, that we need a health-based intervention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EWe cannot in good conscience support this today, noting, as well, the inconsistencies that operate within the Misuse of Drugs Act. Again, just for those who may be following along at home, in the Misuse of Drugs Act, there are two levers by which you can introduce a substance for classification or for upwards classification and that you are then required to, inconsistently\u2014with regard to down-classifying a substance or declassifying a substance. If you want to create new penalties associated to a substance, all you need is an Order in Council motion akin to what we have in the House today. That is something that can pass through this House in the blink of an eye without the requisite scrutiny. I know, of course, there\u2019s a few more belts and braces with this specific instance here, but none the less, there are not the same democratic safeguards when it comes to introducing new massive penalties. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EHere, we\u2019re talking about reversing the burden of proof where somebody has to, effectively, prove their innocence as opposed to the Crown proving their guilt. That is a massive erosion of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act or the rights of New Zealanders. If you are instead to, for example, take a health-based intervention or an evidence-based intervention to try and declassify or down-classify a substance that is known to have, for example, proven therapeutic benefits the likes of, I don\u2019t know, psilocybin or other trials that are currently existing out there in our communities undertaken by healthcare professionals, you need a whole Amendment Paper, which, as we know, takes months and months and months and comes up against massive political barriers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s really important that we\u2019re honest with ourselves in this House about how legislation like this, when empowered to push things through as quickly as is occurring here, actually creates perverse outcomes. All of this is to say that drugs, of course, can and do cause massive harm in our communities. The question for us as lawmakers\u2014and, hopefully, as responsible lawmakers\u2014should be: what should the public policy response that we want to actually meaningfully reduce that harm be? The evidence is clear: approaches like this only compound that harm and we can do so much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed6528e38de44a3ba8f3d5bfca1fbe68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed6528e38de44a3ba8f3d5bfca1fbe68\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for the awareness of the House, the Business Committee has determined that each party is able to take a call, or not. If the parties are all done, I\u2019ll move on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u002257e863a08db34cd8b8bdb27b7f4a4e8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002257e863a08db34cd8b8bdb27b7f4a4e8a\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Sorry, I thought we were up at number six, but our call. T\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. If only this Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2025 was as helpful as it suggests. I say that based on having worked in this sector, so I understand the harm. When you hear me, I\u2019m not saying this stuff because I\u2019m making it up; I say it because I\u2019ve worked amongst it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWe do not\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, kore e whakaae ki t\u0113nei whakaaro [do not agree with this idea]. We do not, and I\u2019m just going to express why.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EAs many of us know, the Misuse of Drugs Act can be amended not just through legislation but also through Orders in Council. What this means in practice is that the Government does not need to introduce a bill and go through the usual parliamentary processes to update the Act; instead, with Cabinet\u2019s approval, changes can be made quickly under the advice of the Expert Advisory Committee on Drugs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EE te wh\u0101nau, m\u0113n\u0101 e m\u0101takitaki mai ana, e rongo ana ki w\u0101ku k\u014Drero, me \u0101ta whakatata mai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E[To the family, should they be watching and hearing my statements, come closer.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ETo our wh\u0101nau watching at home today, that is what is happening right now, in this moment. We, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, oppose the recommended amendments. The amendments will update the Act from Schedules 1 through to 5 by adding a number of new substances. Actually, I\u2019m going to skip that bit, because it gets a little bit boring and technical, in my view.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWithout context, these changes seem positive, and I imagine are well informed by the advisory group. Yet we oppose it, and we oppose it on\u2014well, two things: we oppose it on principle, but we oppose it also on the fact that I know what the stakes are in this space. We oppose the amendments because drug use and the misuse of these substances is a health issue. Just to tautoko the previous speaker\u2019s whakaaro: it\u2019s a health issue, not a criminal one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori justice policy states that we will overhaul the Misuse of Drugs Act so that drug use is treated as a health issue. A report back in 2022 laid it out in black and white: the Government\u2019s current approach to drugs is leading to grossly inequitable outcomes for M\u0101ori. OK\u2014leading to grossly inequitable outcomes for M\u0101ori. These are outcomes that are not just statistics but lived realities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s some numbers. M\u0101ori make up just 20 percent of the population, but account for nearly half of all convictions for drug possession\u2014that\u2019s 48 percent. Even more concerning, M\u0101ori make up over 61 percent of those sentenced to prison for these offences. This is a systemic failure, and it is not a new one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ECriminalising addiction does not reduce harm. T\u0101tou m\u0101, me \u0101ta whakarongo ki t\u0113nei. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E[Everyone, you should listen carefully to this.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EIt does not reduce harm and if you think it does, you know nothing and you do not understand the reality of these things, as much as you might want to or you think your intentions are good. What it does do is make it harder for people\u2014and M\u0101ori people, in particular\u2014to access the services they need for help, support, and treatment. Criminalising what is, essentially, addiction incites intergenerational harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhat are we actually trying to achieve with these amendments right now? We\u2019re only further embedding the mass criminalisation of what is absolutely a health issue. Governments must build a system that acknowledges and treats what we\u2019re discussing today as health and a social issue, not a crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, we\u2019ve got some great ideas; we\u2019ve got some great policy. Our justice policy will do that. We really need to address this particular issue in a much more proactive but much more real-life understanding way, and I\u2019m offering that, I guess. But Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori will not support this. We\u2019d like to, but the intentions are off-track\u2014or possibly on the fast track, which, of course, is off-track. But they failed to understand the lived reality for people\u2014and particularly for M\u0101ori people\u2014so we cannot support or commend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u00220245a8a54c284e0aaea56770838fd5be\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That, pursuant to section 4A of the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, this House approve the Misuse of Drugs (Classification and Presumption of Supply) Order 2025 made under section 4 of that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000214\u0022\u003EOrder approved.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002226f6de8c4f5847f7aa4c6213705eb7e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002226f6de8c4f5847f7aa4c6213705eb7e1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Government order of the day No. 1.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444f0537584e4a1fb87399e44e67b24e\u0022\u003ECatherine Wedd\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f2829dd45a14caa8f0c39db49783e5a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just one moment. Is this for the Chair or the committee? I\u2019m about to declare the House in committee. I declare the House in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b064ca0dd9ce404381e07ac0ea732e01\u0022\u003EEstimates Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022258842ab843a44918ffb2537f5407624\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000220\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b05ddab40f24e30a660b277bcd5c26b\u0022\u003EClimate Change\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022b81daee9257d463e9de518390a14d1d9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b81daee9257d463e9de518390a14d1d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: I appreciate the early morning enthusiasm of the member, but we\u2019ve just got to do a few other things before we can kick into it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EMembers, the House is in committee for further consideration of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill. All Votes are available for debate, but only the Minister of Climate Change will be available today to speak to his portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe debate will be led by a call from the chairperson or member of the committee that considered the Estimates most closely related to the Minister\u2019s portfolio. In leading off the debate, the chairperson should take care not to be overly political and should ensure that their call gives a fair reflection of the committee\u2019s report on the Votes relevant to the portfolio. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EAt the end of the debate, questions will be put that the Votes stand part of the Schedules and on the provisions of the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill. There is one hour and 41 minutes remaining in this debate. New Zealand National has 21 minutes remaining, New Zealand Labour has 32 minutes remaining, the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand has 15 minutes remaining, ACT New Zealand has 15 minutes remaining, New Zealand First has 35 minutes remaining, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has 20 minutes remaining. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe Estimates debate should be relevant to the Government\u2019s current spending plans as contained in the Estimates of Appropriations. The question again is that the Votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriations for 2025-26 stand part of the Schedules. Members, the Minister of Climate Change is available to speak to that portfolio until the time for the debate has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa80070b97af4c8a8fba23596f725573\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa80070b97af4c8a8fba23596f725573\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (Chairperson of the Environment Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, always very excited to talk about our Environment Committee work in relation to climate change. On the select committee, we looked at the funding for climate change. The funding related to climate change totals $2.316 billion, and this includes $2.046 billion for the allocation of New Zealand emissions units to the economy; $153 million for administering the emissions trading scheme; $46 million for policy advice, reporting, operations, and stewardship relating to climate change; over $15 million of funding for the Climate Change Commission; over $10 million to support equitable transitions and community climate action for M\u0101ori; and over $3 million to fund the Climate Change Chief Executives Board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003ELook, during the select committee process, we looked at the second emissions reduction plan. This was released in December 2024 and it spans the period 2026-2030, and it includes targeted actions in key sectors, including agriculture, transport, energy and waste, which were all discussed. We were told that work had begun on 30 of the 36 total actions, and we heard that New Zealand is currently tracking towards meeting its first and second emissions budgets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003EWe also discussed reducing methane emissions. We heard about some very good innovations and technologies being developed to reduce emissions from livestock\u2014for example, the New Zealand company Ruminant BioTech, which has developed bolus that releases a substance which counteracts the formation of methane. This was a very interesting discussion. We also spoke about waste management, carbon capture, utilisation, and storage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226c562dc86e974914b8878595e580f138\u0022\u003ESo my question to the Minister of Climate Change is: what is the Government\u2019s overarching plans to reduce our emissions and meet our climate change targets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022783fb495a6cf4de5b50bb66d77b57fa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022783fb495a6cf4de5b50bb66d77b57fa7\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and thank you to the chair of the Environment Committee for those opening remarks. I acknowledge all members of that committee. I\u2019m going to provide an overview in the five minutes that I have, and then I\u2019m happy to take questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EFirst and foremost, it is important to acknowledge and recognise that this Government is committed to meeting our climate change targets while driving economic growth. We believe that growing our economy, reducing our emissions, and building our resilience all go hand in hand, and when we act for climate and growth, we strengthen New Zealand\u2019s position as a resilient and competitive nation in a low-emissions global economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe Government, last year, released our climate change strategy, which is an important document\u2014a plan that sets the direction for cutting emissions and preparing for the impacts of climate change. Our focus ahead is putting that strategy into action. We are working on developing an enduring national adaptation framework, world-leading innovation to boost the economy, clean energy that is abundant and affordable, and credible markets in order to support the broader transition. The framework that we are looking to implement more broadly in adaptation acknowledges that we need to manage and understand the risks from natural hazards, including those that might change because of climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re focusing on four key areas. The first of these, and most pressing, is information about the risks; access to information helps people make more informed decisions about where they build, live, buy, or invest. New Zealand\u2019s current system for knowing about risks and deciding about what to do about them has developed over time, but this means that information can be hard to find or understand, so it\u2019s hard for people to know how to prepare. There is some information out there\u2014for example, people can look up their home on the Natural Hazards Portal or look at their local council\u2019s flood maps\u2014but we\u2019ve heard from councils, banks, insurers, researchers, and individual homeowners that better information is needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThis work underpins the framework and other reforms under way across Government. Our Government is continuing work on regulations to clarify council requirements when sharing natural hazard information in a land information memorandum, introducing changes this year. We\u2019re also looking to improve access to priority data sets, such as updating the system that estimates the magnitude and frequency of high-intensity rainfall in New Zealand. This is used for assessing the impacts on flooding and, also, landslips. There will never be perfect information, but continuing to improve is essential for good decision-making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EOther areas of the framework that are being considered over the long term are: providing more clarity on roles and responsibilities, including the role of local government; providing options to guide investments in resilience so that people know what investment will happen in their area\u2014for example, whether the council plans to build new flood protection schemes, and, also, importantly, the issue of cost sharing. We want the framework to be enduring so that people can have confidence in New Zealand\u2019s approach and invest in our country, and we\u2019re also working to build on the cross-party work of last year\u2019s Finance and Expenditure Committee inquiry into climate adaptation. We\u2019re also considering the recommendations of the independent reference group on adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EWe intend to introduce legislation to get the first building blocks of this system in place as soon as possible. The framework will complement other work to build on resilience that my colleagues are leading\u2014for example, changes to our resource management system that support more broader councils to manage risks and natural hazards in new development and reforms to the science, information, technology, and emergency management systems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EAn example of other areas of supporting resilience is our M\u0101ori Climate Platform. The establishment of the platform was a key action in the emissions reduction plan and part of our national adaptation plan. I have announced five initial projects; these projects are enabling M\u0101ori communities to lead climate resilience initiatives. One solar farm in Te Karaka, in the Tair\u0101whiti area, will power up to 200 homes and essential services, including a school, police base, fire service, healthcare centre, petrol station, and general store. This will keep critical services running during extreme weather events and provide long-term economic benefits to that community. The second stage of the M\u0101ori Climate Platform funding will be rolled out in the coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn addition, the ministry\u2019s joint work programme Pou Take \u0100huarangi will deliver a marae risk and readiness stocktake; we have already undertaken that stocktake of over 1,000 marae in New Zealand, and, of those 1,000 marae that have been part of that stocktake, 145 of those marae had undertaken climate risk assessments, and this is a positive aspect.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn regard to the second emissions reduction plan, ERP2, I will now turn to emissions reductions. Our second emissions reduction plan is a blueprint for reducing emissions in the second half of this decade. The plan includes a market-led approach, harnessing the New Zealand emissions trading scheme to lower emissions, supported by targeted actions to key sectors to take efficient and effective action. We\u2019ve begun working on a majority of actions within this plan, and, through these actions, we\u2019ll increase New Zealand\u2019s clean energy, also encourage world-leading innovation, and ensure that we have an efficient and competitive agricultural sector to boost sustainable investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EOne of the policies that is harnessing nature to remove emissions is through the afforestation of Crown land. The Government is actively exploring partnerships with the private sector to plant trees on Crown-owned land that is of low conservation value and low farming value. A request for information process has been run, and I hope to make decisions by the end of this year. We\u2019ve also continued to progress the carbon removals framework; this will help ensure that we prioritise investment in effective, scientifically robust removal activities. We are currently tracking towards meeting our first and second emissions budgets and will continue to monitor progress closely. We will adapt, if needed, to ensure that we remain on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand emissions trading scheme is our key tool for reducing emissions. Stable policy and adequate incentives will encourage businesses to invest in decarbonisation. Over the last month, we released the Government\u2019s annual update to the New Zealand emissions trading scheme settings to ensure that the scheme can continue to play its role to help meet our targets. The feedback during the public consultation was very clear that these settings would better support the scheme to meet emissions reduction targets, providing confidence and certainty to that market.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EEarlier this year, we also announced that we were strengthening the market governance of the emissions trading scheme. Again, in June, the Government introduced changes to limit whole-farm conversions to forestry, and these changes come into effect on 31 October. Both these new policy measures will support confidence in the credibility of the emissions trading scheme in the market. This Government will continue to work to meet our climate change targets, remove barriers, and also, importantly, open up new opportunities for our people, environment, and economy to thrive. With that, I will welcome questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u00222eaf900dc9274dd3b1925c7e9d6d5e60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eaf900dc9274dd3b1925c7e9d6d5e60\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. With that amount of talking from the Minister of Climate Change just now, I really hope that he is open to answering questions fulsomely. It was really interesting to hear him run through the number of initiatives that the Government has undertaken, because this debate obviously is about the Estimates, but this has a deep interrelationship with the emissions reduction plan (ERP) No. 2, in particular. So I think it is really worthwhile unpacking the component parts of that ERP and how, while I wish we could believe the comments that the Minister has made, unfortunately, they do not match with reality and the actions that the Government has decided to take.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EIf you look at the emissions reduction plan outlined by the Minister and that pamphlet that he was just waving around, it\u2019s not worth the paper that it is written on. That is why the Government is currently being sued over it. Fully a third of that emissions reduction plan relies on carbon capture technology, which the Minister has said the Government will not be investing in and which the private owners, Todd Energy, have said is not economically feasible for them to invest in that technology, especially with the emissions trading scheme (ETS) settings as they are at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003ENotably, we\u2019re coming today off the back of yet another failure of an ETS auction under this Minister and under this Government, to which I cheekily asked him in scrutiny week, I believe last year, about whether the most effective climate policy that we are seeing from this Government is their inability to provide that certainty for the market so that those units ultimately end up getting cancelled and those permissions to pollute end up being cancelled. That is to say that fully a third of that emissions reduction plan from this Government is economically unfeasible and not going to happen without investment, which the Minister has said the Government is not going to do. So that\u2019s a third of the emissions reduction plan from this Government, which is simply not going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThen another third, the Waste Minimisation Fund, and another almost third is the reduction required from organics. Well, if we just take a second to dig below the surface on that, we know, based on all of the official estimates, that we need approximately $30 million allocated just as a baseline to organics to meet that 0.8 megatonne reduction. How on earth are we simultaneously, out of that same pot of money, going to get those reductions in waste minimisation? The Government seems to be double counting here. This is a question that I\u2019d really like an answer to from the Minister, because at this point, 2.8 megatonnes of the 3.3 megatonnes in the second emissions budget (EB2) are economically unfeasible and the Government is refusing to invest in them, saying that they want market-led solutions. Not only does it not add up but it is a slap in the face to New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EOn top of that, the other 0.5 percent of megatonnes that are required through the EB2 that the Minister has been waving around, through ETS changes\u2014and, again, I\u2019d allude to the fact that we\u2019re seeing the failure of those auctions time and again as a result of the lack of certainty in the stockpiling that we\u2019ve seen from the commercial sector through agricultural emissions reduction. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EJust on agricultural emissions reduction, I found it quite galling for the Minister to get up and talk about the investment that this Government is making in agricultural emissions reduction. Well, it turns out that the Minister announced a fund of approximately $400 million to \u201Caccelerate commercialisation of tools and technology to reduce on-farm emissions.\u201D Well, guess what, guys! He reannounced the fund that already existed under the last Government and simultaneously managed to cut $48 million from it while reannouncing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EWhat on earth is going on? You think you\u2019re pulling the wool over New Zealanders\u2019 eyes, because you\u2019re also creating this cost of living crisis and simultaneously pouring oil, coal, and gas on the climate crisis, which will only compound that cost of living crisis. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister fundamentally is: will the Minister of Climate Change please stand up? Because out of the one side of your mouth, Minister, with your climate change hat on, you are going offshore and you are telling people that we are still holding to the same international negotiating positions that we did under the former Government; that is, the phase out of fossil fuels and fossil fuel subsidies. Yet out the other side of your mouth, here at home with your energy hat on, you are signing out $200 million in fossil fuel subsidies. How do you reconcile these things? You, for one, Minister, are frequently saying, as are many other Ministers of this Government and Cabinet\u2014and, in fact, many members of this Parliament always talk about how we don\u2019t want siloed thinking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMinister, given all that I have outlined about how your emissions budget does not stack up, given what has been said about its economic feasibility by those private actors that you\u2019ve said that you want to partner with, how are you going to make this happen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022efc52b6907674cbc9642df6b0b9ff7f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efc52b6907674cbc9642df6b0b9ff7f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Minister, thank you for your very broad-ranging opening speech, which I think gives a lot of scope to discuss climate change. In the Estimates debate earlier this year, your words were: \u201CIt is important to acknowledge that New Zealand is part of a Paris Agreement.\u201D, and you acknowledged several times that, in actual fact, we were committed to the Paris Agreement, but, in recent days, both New Zealand First and ACT have expressed scepticism about the Paris Agreement. Minister, can you confirm that this Government is committed to meeting the Paris Agreement? I\u2019m going to repeat your words from your opening speech: \u201CThe Government is committed to climate change targets.\u201D In very simple language, please, Minister: is the Government committed to meeting the Paris Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac5d2b103bcf4a9184f02647ea76874c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac5d2b103bcf4a9184f02647ea76874c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before we take more calls, please make the comments through the Chair; so not directly to the Minister. I appreciate the passion in the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022141fe9715c0743b49db57427a472c19b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022141fe9715c0743b49db57427a472c19b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I will repeat the question, Mr Chair. It\u2019s a very straightforward question that shouldn\u2019t take any thinking on the part of the Minister of Climate Change. The Minister said, in his opening speech, that the Government is committed to its climate change targets, yet in recent days, both New Zealand First and the ACT Party have expressed scepticism about the Paris Agreement and talked about withdrawing from it. Can the Minister, please, confirm that this Government is committed to meeting the Paris Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u0022b75f93f571bf433b95fe58da5d0a5350\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b75f93f571bf433b95fe58da5d0a5350\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Unfortunately, it appears as though exactly what our concern was, which was that the Minister of Climate Change would open by reading off two sheets of paper, soaking up about 10 minutes of time, so that he could then sit himself down and not engage meaningfully whatsoever with the detail that we are asking him to share for the New Zealand public\u2014because he has a responsibility to, because we have started to unpack the very nature of the document that he is saying is going to solve all of our problems. We can show the data, the facts, and the reality are so far-removed from the things that he is saying; yet he\u2019s not willing to get up or defend or engage meaningfully whatsoever. I don\u2019t get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMinister, your job is to be accountable to this House. Minister, your job is to be accountable to New Zealanders. Your job is to be accountable to the emissions budget, which you have put out there, which all of the data and the facts and the evidence shows is not worth the paper that it is written on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EPerhaps, Minister, if you would be so willing to maybe, charitably, engage in answering some questions, which, I might note, you\u2019re actually required to per the tenancy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227151cf8031fe4b6d85a98218e4db87ab\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you make the comments through the Chair, please. I have said that earlier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c02d6f7b50954b0b9475966fd43a91e0\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Chair, then\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022498e082438ae43849c0200876cf465d9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0fb8af801ed4b09ba915e8ff56c0de1\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014some questions for the Minister, which we hope that he deigns to engage with. New Zealand\u2019s second emissions reduction plan is expecting emissions reductions in the waste sector across both the Waste Minimisation Fund and from organic waste management as separate initiatives. However, we know that the only new money that is allocated each year in the Waste Minimisation Fund is the $30 million per annum. This, coincidentally, is the absolute bare minimum needed to get emissions reductions from waste. How is the Government expecting to get emissions reductions from both of those initiatives when one of them requires the full quantum of the money that he has allocated to both? Is the Minister, and is the Government, double counting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2a9d9d93d6d45718ec46965befaa7a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2a9d9d93d6d45718ec46965befaa7a0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to answer some of those questions. For those who are watching at home, the limitations on the ability and the time that we have to speak is constrained. I have about 10 minutes of total time to respond to questions during this 90-minute period, so it is not for the sake of not answering; it is simply to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn the context of the questions asked, on the opening statement of the climate change strategy that was produced, it notes very clearly that the coalition Government is committed to meeting its climate change targets. This is our climate strategy. That is the coalition Government\u2019s strategy, and in order to respond to the question asked, again that remains the Government\u2019s position. In the context of the questions asked, one of the members noted carbon capture, utilisation, and storage (CCUS), which is in regard to carbon capture related to, primarily, the gas sector. The Government is, and remains, committed to ensuring we have the regulatory framework in place to enable CCUS to occur in New Zealand. That has not changed, and work is currently under way in regard to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EAs the member should, hopefully, know, as a result of prior Government decision-making, we have a significant lack of supply of gas in this country. On the one hand, emissions reductions from gas, which was modelled in the emissions reduction plan, is one of the key pathways, but the reality is that New Zealand has significantly less gas than what we thought we had a number of years ago. By simple mathematics, if you\u2019re going to have less gas, you\u2019re going to have less emissions in that context. We\u2019re still committed to the regulatory framework, and we\u2019re working our way through that at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EAnother member also noted, and made comments in regard to, emissions trading scheme (ETS) option \u201Cfailure\u201D. With respect to those who understand how the ETS option operates, it is not accurate to describe it as a failure. When the market does not clear, it simply states that the amount of demand in the market is less than the amount of supply and that that demand can be satisfied through what is referred to as the secondary market. There are two ETS markets where you can buy units: one off the Government, and one off other people who hold those units. The reality is that where people want those units, they can purchase those through the secondary market, and that is what happened. The fact that the option does not clear and the Government doesn\u2019t issue units is not a failure of the option; it\u2019s just simply basic demand and supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn regard to the conversations and questions in regard to waste management in the emissions reduction plan, it remains one of the key pathways we have outlined in the strategy, and there remains active work under way in regard to delivering that. There are a lot of opportunities in regard to particularly methane capture, in terms of waste management, and also opportunity to use that methane for energy production as well. This is a Government that is committed to review all those options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022af3dbe2f46834fdb82f35f1ca8a7381a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ecf0073708419dad0096151b83ff5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af3dbe2f46834fdb82f35f1ca8a7381a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ecf0073708419dad0096151b83ff5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Tiamana. I\u2019ve got a couple of questions and comments about the Minister\u2019s opening remarks and, also, around the independent report on climate adaptation with particular reference to whenua M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af3dbe2f46834fdb82f35f1ca8a7381a\u0022\u003EFirst of all, the Minister of Climate Change spoke about the stocktake on marae. I find it interesting that the Government makes statements about engaging with M\u0101ori really quite easily, when, in fact, they seem to forget some of the actions that they\u2019ve taken that actually isolate M\u0101ori and think that that\u2019s not going to impact on the results of things like doing a stocktake on marae. Getting rid of the M\u0101ori Health Authority has impacted on all marae in the country. Downgrading the value of te reo M\u0101ori has done the same. My question to the Minister is: if he wants to engage with M\u0101ori, how is he going to do that given that M\u0101ori don\u2019t trust this Government at all and the Government is going to be on the back foot in being able to do that work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022af3dbe2f46834fdb82f35f1ca8a7381a\u0022\u003EThe other issue that I want to talk about is whenua M\u0101ori local adaptation decisions. In the independent report, it spoke about this issue. My question is: how is he going to empower M\u0101ori, iwi, hap\u016B, and w\u0101nanga to actually do this work, again, given that this Government has made an absolute hash of a relationship with M\u0101ori? Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u002280f5bef3028a455e884fba8b5ad734be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f5bef3028a455e884fba8b5ad734be\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Yeah, I do want to respond to those comments because I think they are without substance in the context of the allegations that were made. To make a comment and a gross generalisation that M\u0101ori do not trust this Government is simply not one which is based in any evidential fact or substance. The reality is, actually, in the area of climate change, and the relationship with iwi M\u0101ori, we have made significant positive steps forward in regard to the work in which we\u2019re doing. There is a very close and active relationship between the Iwi Chairs Forum and myself, as the lead Minister of Climate Change, along with Marama Royal, who leads that on behalf of that, and we have an active programme in order to do that. That partnership has undertaken a stocktake of virtually all marae in this country in terms of the risk. Why? Because, actually, those communities are on the front line of climate change. They are feeling the impacts of climate change, and, as a Government, we have recognised that and are actually not just talking about it but taking action to deal with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EOf those 1,000 marae, we have done 145 detailed risk assessments, and we are in the process of rolling out interventions. Meremere, up in the North, where I went across and helped as part of Government funding in terms of a new water supply for that rural and isolated community and other interventions\u2014these are positive actions on the ground that do help communities. To make such statements, that M\u0101ori don\u2019t trust this Government, I think, is simply\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290cce6467bff419c839ba0a9d1eed491\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: M\u0101ori hate this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c2a15c9746148dc8ffd25a3ea02e742\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you know, you have to own the words which you say in this House. I\u2019m very proud of the work that we\u2019re doing, we have an active programme in regard to that, and the reality is that actions speak louder than words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022 data-id=\u00222356027da6aa4417b4d65aec305547ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222356027da6aa4417b4d65aec305547ec\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I find it very interesting that the Minister of Climate Change has not answered the question put by my colleague the Hon Deborah Russell with respect to committing to the Paris Agreement and affirming for this House and the general public that this Government continues to be committed to the Paris Agreement. I want to know from the Minister: what would be the international implications for us withdrawing our support for the Paris Agreement? I want to know from the Minister whether or not there would be any trade implications for us with respect to withdrawing our support for the Paris Agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003EI also want to know whether or not the Minister has provided advice to the Prime Minister, given that he is at the Pacific Islands Forum Leaders Meeting now, or perhaps en route back, and whether or not that advice included anything with respect to climate change and the Paris Agreement. Has the Prime Minister gone there to reaffirm a commitment from Aotearoa New Zealand to the Paris Agreement, or has the Prime Minister gone there withdrawing support for the Paris Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003ENow, this is incredibly important, given that the number one challenge and issue cited by our Pacific regional neighbours is always climate change, so I\u2019d like to know what advice that Minister has been providing to his Prime Minister. What messages is the Prime Minister giving on the international stage on the Paris Agreement? Again, I want to ask the same question that the Hon Deborah Russell has asked on a number of occasions, whether or not that Minister and this Government are committed to the Paris Agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022714eaf9a22764301872c5e76414972e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022714eaf9a22764301872c5e76414972e3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E I want to be very clear and categoric that this Government is committed to its climate change targets and New Zealand\u2019s climate change targets\u2014that is, both our domestic targets and our international targets. Our international targets are in the context of the Paris Agreement, and they are clearly, as I\u2019ve noted, coalition commitments in regard to this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe member asked, \u201CWhy is this important?\u201D Well, first and foremost, in the context of the multilateral system, the climate change agreement in the Paris Agreement is one of the few remaining multilateral agreements that is holding at this point. There is significant geopolitical tension and pressure out there, and New Zealand is committed in the context of that agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EI was in China last week. China remains strongly committed to that and will be coming out with their Nationally Determined Contribution targets in the next two months. Australia are strongly committed to that and will be coming out with their targets, as well, in the next six to eight weeks, and so it is important for New Zealand to play its part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EYes\u2014and particularly as a member has highlighted\u2014the Pacific are at the front lines of climate change impact in our region. New Zealand does and should and continues to maintain a role to support our Pacific countries to ensure that they are able to have their voice heard at that international level. That\u2019s why we supported Australia\u2019s bid to host the United Nations Climate Change Conference next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u00228d9a5c609c274f5180656624a84a2a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d9a5c609c274f5180656624a84a2a3c\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. Look, I want to ask a few questions around adaptation and resilience. The first thing, in terms of how we respond to that, is we don\u2019t build the wrong things in the wrong places. I note\u2014through you, Mr Chair\u2014to the Minister of Climate Change that we\u2019ve moved very recently to try and address some of the problems that occurred in Auckland, so that the Auckland Council was not compelled, effectively, to consent buildings in places which we know to be flood-prone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003EMy question, really, is: what is the Minister aware of in terms of how we can help councils around the country who also have situations where people may well want to develop new buildings, new housing, in areas which are hazard-prone, particularly flood-prone; and the Resource Management Act, we know, is not the most nimble beast in the world\u2014how we are helping those councils to be able to respond to those issues so we are not building the wrong thing in the wrong place. If I might illustrate that, we know, going back in time, that the Christchurch council did not want a lot of houses built in the area which subsequently, after the Canterbury earthquakes, was devastated\u2014what is now the red zone. The council tried to say no to that; they were overruled. So my question\u2014through you, Mr Chair\u2014to the Minister is: what are we doing to assist those councils to be more nimble, to make sure that we\u2019re not building the wrong things in the wrong place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003EOn the flip side of that, I would also be very interested to know if the Minister is aware of councils which are maybe taking it too far. I mean, there\u2019s a council not far from here which has, essentially, said that the entire district is potentially prone to inundation from climate change, up to a distance of a good couple of kilometres from the coast\u2014I\u2019m talking about the K\u0101piti Coast District; that has got its citizens very concerned. It\u2019s about getting the right balance there. I\u2019m also aware of another situation where there are people who wish to deliberately flood areas by raising lake levels in the Canterbury region. So I\u2019m very interested\u2014through you, Mr Chair, to the Minister\u2014in his observations around how we get the balance right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00223d11e07dede04325a71d66296e65646b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d11e07dede04325a71d66296e65646b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the member Andy Foster for those questions. There\u2019s a reason that the first pillar of the Government\u2019s climate change strategy, which we released last year, is ensuring that infrastructure is resilient and that our communities are well prepared to face the impacts of climate change. As I noted in my opening comments, the country is facing growing risks from natural hazards, such as floods and storms, and severe weather events, like we\u2019ve seen in the Tasman area this year. Those impacts are not only devastating, they also come at a significant fiscal cost. The country has, in effect, incurred costs in the region of $50\u00A0billion over the last decade alone in order to fix infrastructure impacted by the impacts of these weather events. It is a significant fiscal cost, and we know that this is more than just a simple fiscal cost; it has societal, cultural, and other significant complications on those communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EI hear the points that you\u2019ve noted around councils and the way in which we absolutely believe that they should be using evidence-based data to make those decisions. We know there are inconsistencies there, and we want to work through that. That\u2019s why the climate adaptation framework\u2014the major part of it\u2014is making sure that the data that\u2019s being used is appropriate, evidence based, accurate, and consistent. Therefore, we should ensure we get that balance right around managing the risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe other issue with adaptation is that we\u2019re seeing insurance premiums increase across New Zealand, and we know that that has an implication on the cost of living pressures that Kiwi households face. Making sure we have the appropriate information also deals, in effect, with one of the key drivers that cost of living is implicating in New Zealand households. That is another area of focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u0022937fd1073786462ea9050e9823ca292d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022937fd1073786462ea9050e9823ca292d\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E I don\u2019t know if the Minister of Climate Change actually believes some of the things that he is saying right now. I mean, saying something does not make it true; saying something does not make it real. You need to put substance and actions behind your words, Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EI asked the Minister before, particularly, about the carbon capture technology by which the Government relies on for approximately a full third of its emissions reductions in the emission reduction plan. What he said, after I asked him what the Government was intending to do off the back of comments from the private sector, which the Minister has said he wants to partner with to make this happen\u2014well, the private sector has said that it\u2019s fully economically unfeasible to do this. The Minister\u2019s response: \u201CWe\u2019ll just deal with the regulatory environment.\u201D No specification about what that actually means. He did not say that the Government will be investing in making this a reality. If we are to create the regulatory environment, well, the Minister must know that that means the price of emissions must go so, so much higher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMy question for the Minister off the back of that is: is the Minister intending to, if we are to take his words at face value, create the regulatory environment\u2014to use his own terms\u2014to create far higher pricing for emissions? That is my first question for the Minister, which we need his response to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThen, in response to my questions about waste, by which it appears that the Government is completely double counting the money that it has set aside, $30 million for waste minimisation, also for organics emission reduction\u2014that $30 million being the baseline required just for organics, which it is also simultaneously allocating to waste minimisation in general. Well, the Minister just said, \u201COh, you know, it remains part of our strategy.\u201D Absolutely no detail and completely ignoring the question and the reality and the facts and the evidence that he is double counting the money that is allocated here. Make it make sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EPerhaps the most astounding of all of that\u2014post the gaslighting\u2014is that we have a Minister of Climate Change in this country recycling fossil fuel talking points. The Minister was talking about how, apparently, the reason that we have a gas shortage in this country is because of the offshore oil and gas ban, which came into effect in 2018. The Minister knows these facts. He knows that gas production peaked in this country 20 years ago. He must know that it started steadily declining year on year from 10 years ago. That is multiple years before the oil and gas ban came into effect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EEven if we were to have found a new gas well in 2018 when the ban came into effect, the average time it takes to go from exploration to production is 16 years. What that means is if the ban did not come into effect and we found it as early as 2018 when the ban did come into effect, then we would still be waiting 10 years from this point right now for that new gas to come online. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003ESo will the Minister please be honest with New Zealanders. Will he please be honest about the opportunity cost that comes from this Government subsidising new fossil fuel production to the tune\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a204dc3affe44abb8e13138334cbacfa\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Not a subsidy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad77bd1d410c4800adf4f4116ab683a9\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014of $200 million of New Zealanders money and will he provide the facts and the information that offer the contrary view that it\u2019s not a subsidy\u2014as members from over on his side continue to heckle out\u2014because all of the information that we have in the public is to the contrary. All of the information that we have in the public, from an independent King\u2019s Counsel, shows that it is, in fact, a subsidy per the definition of the Agreement on Climate Change, Trade and Sustainability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMy baseline question for the Minister, basically, is, through the Chair: do you even believe what you\u2019re saying? Will the Minister of Climate Change please stand up, because I cannot point to one thing that the Minister has done in his position of power as the Minister of Climate Change that has put us on a positive trajectory with regard to climate action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EMy second question is, given that the Government has been dancing around and refusing to answer questions about its no additional warming work programme\u2014and just for those who are uninitiated, no additional warming is a pseudo-scientific method that\u2019s been shopped around by big agriculture internationally; has found nowhere to land in Governments across the rest of the world until they met these guys. Well, when is the Government going to make clear that it will reject that pseudo-science, which would see a far higher burden placed on households and other businesses across this country, if we are to meet our emissions targets, as the Minister says he\u2019s committed to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003EThirdly: is the Minister committing to keeping the Climate Change Commission with all of the powers that it currently has into the future?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00222a3999f59f5a42f7a7fd56f7953378e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a3999f59f5a42f7a7fd56f7953378e6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Hopefully the member will include my comments in the TikTok grabs that she\u2019s recording at the moment for her social media, knowing that I only have two minutes to respond to all the questions left on this. I don\u2019t want to waste the opportunity, I\u2019ll use my two minutes on your response, because I know you\u2019ll cut this part of my speech in your videos when you post them later on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EMinister Simmonds will be administering the waste management programme; she has prioritised organic waste solutions and will be continuing to make decisions around specific projects in this area. This Government\u2014and please put this on your TikTok\u2014is 100 percent committed to the Climate Change Commission, and the work this Government has done around appointing Dame Pasty Reddy to the leadership of that function conveys the important role that that entity plays and the independent advice that it provides to all Governments. That is an important part of the mix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn regard to the other questions regarding landfill, we do have and we are progressing a wide range of policies and tools to achieve the abatement objectives in the emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022 data-id=\u0022805b6e9cdd7d450f91dd4bb603a730a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022805b6e9cdd7d450f91dd4bb603a730a5\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I have a couple of questions for the Minister of Climate Change with regard to the impact of climate change and the adaptation work he\u2019s mentioned and how that relates to the protection and improvement of biodiversity particularly. I have specific questions for the Minister, but I thought I\u2019d start with just the fact that there are measurable impacts of climate change on the fishing industry\u2014for example, two of the greatest threats to New Zealand\u2019s marine environment are warming sea temperatures and the acidification of oceans. That threatens what is a $2.2 billion industry for New Zealand, which is fishing, and I know this Government has a goal to triple the revenue from this industry as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EGiven those two particular threats, which are of course leading to things like the decline of specific fish stocks, the availability of food\u2014their migration patterns are being disrupted as a result as well, there are flow-on effects around the changes to ocean circulation patterns, and we know that climate change has intensified the strength of storms, of rainfall, and all of that leads to sediment erosion and therefore the reduction of water quality as well. Given all of those, my question to the Minister is: what within his adaptation plan deals with the protection and the improvement of ecosystems and biodiversity, in this case with a particular focus on the marine environment? I do have another question around wetlands as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u00223d27480726924c5cb2f9b9d986be34a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d27480726924c5cb2f9b9d986be34a5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I want to ask about methane. Back in the hearing on this, I asked a question about when the Minister was going to set a methane target. I said: \u201CWhen do we think that we\u2019ll have some clarity on which way the Government intends to go on this?\u201D. The Minister replied: \u201CI would expect that that decision would be made this year, in terms of timing. It goes back to the point around certainty in terms of where things are at, and it is important for us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EMinister, in recent months, I\u2019ve been talking with representatives from the agricultural sector\u2014I\u2019ve been talking with Federated Farmers, with Beef \u002B Lamb New Zealand, with other producers\u2014and the one thing they say they want now around methane is certainty. \u201CGive us a target. Give us a goal, and we can work towards it\u201D. Those are the words I\u2019ve heard from people in the agricultural sector. \u201CTargets can be tough\u201D, they said, \u201CBut at least if we\u2019ve got one, then we can work to it\u201D. They\u2019ve also asked for a target which provides some certainty over time; some certainty that it will not change from Government to Government. They want a target that will have broad agreement across this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EI have a series of questions around the methane target. First of all, when will we have a decision on methane? A decision that, the Minister said, would be made this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6b46f98e8b04a678b1ce07278cec2fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6b46f98e8b04a678b1ce07278cec2fc\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E The Government remains committed to making decisions in regard to setting the methane target this year. Cabinet has not made a decision on that at this point. However, while the member and I disagree on many things in this context, I would agree that the importance of having certainty in this conversation is an area that is an imperative, and we\u2019ll be doing everything we can to ensure we get that outcome. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022767d2f27e4324118936da8a783ef3302\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022767d2f27e4324118936da8a783ef3302\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this week, I was at the Environmental Defence Society and the Climate Change \u0026amp; Business Conference, and there was a very telling and interesting comment made by Izzy Fenwick on a panel. Ms Fenwick was asked, \u201CWhat was the risk to New Zealand if we didn\u2019t meet our climate targets?\u201D Interestingly, she said, \u201CClimatically, the risk doesn\u2019t really change.\u201D The fact is: no matter what, we are going to be affected by climate change, and what New Zealand can do, itself, will change the results of climate change very little. New Zealand\u2019s own efforts won\u2019t make much difference to the actual impact of climate change. \u201CBut,\u201D she said\u2014and it was a very important \u201Cbut\u201D\u2014\u201Cthe risks to New Zealand, if we do not meet our climate goals, if we do not set realistic methane targets, if we do not get our emissions under control, if we do not meet the Paris Agreement, are economic and political.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EOur trade partners will walk away from us. It was in evidence presented from leading businesses figures that our trade will suffer, because, increasingly, customers in our markets are demanding that the food we produce is low emissions, low carbon, and low methane, that the food we produce can be certified to not be increasing climate change. Setting a realistic methane target is very, very important to us, for economic and for political reasons. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EIs the Minister committed to maintaining New Zealand\u2019s international competitive edge as world leaders in low-emissions food and fibre production? Does he see any risks if his Government weakens the methane target and moves it away from the target range that was agreed to by virtually all of this House\u2014bar one party\u2014in the Climate Change Response Act? Is the Minister committed to that 24 percent to 47 percent methane reduction range in the Climate Change Response Act?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022 data-id=\u0022de2a2f7110f44746b4b95139aca94377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de2a2f7110f44746b4b95139aca94377\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I will just reiterate the question that I asked the Minister of Climate Change earlier, with regard to the impact of climate change on biodiversity more broadly, but specifically on the impacts to our oceans and, therefore, our fish stock. I mentioned, previously, that our seafood industry brings in $2.2 billion worth of revenue for New Zealand. One of the top fish species that we export is hoki, and that is also one of the most threatened fish species when it comes to climate change and the impact that it has on both warming and acidification of oceans. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EI refer to a report that was commissioned by Fisheries New Zealand which is about climate change, titled Climate Change and New Zealand\u2019s Seafood Sector. It lays out quite clearly what the impacts of climate change are on our oceans and on our fish and it specifically speaks about the impact to hoki and says that increasing ocean temperatures is likely to cause a decline in the population of this particular fish species, and also speaks to the shifts in oceanic winds and the impact that currents might have on food availability and, therefore, the sustainability of the population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister was: what, in his climate adaptation plan, has any regard to the improvement and the protection of biodiversity, given the impacts and the flow-on effects it then has in terms of our economy, because of the impact it has on the number and the take of the fish that we are able to grow here in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EI also want to ask the Minister a similar question to do with salmon species. I know that New Zealand Fish \u0026amp; Game has been raising this for quite some time now, particularly with sea-run salmon that may be within rivers that lead to the ocean, but these are particular salmon that need to go to the ocean for cooler temperatures, and then that\u2019s part of the migratory pattern, basically. But that\u2019s been disrupted because when the ocean\u2019s warm, and these fish need to stay cool, that then means that there\u2019s an impact on them; the juvenile of the species struggle to grow, and what we\u2019re seeing now is both a reduction in salmon populations more broadly and also the fact that the young salmon aren\u2019t growing to the extent or the size that they should be growing to, and that impacts export of salmon, as well. One might ask why, given it\u2019s an introduced species, we need to be worried about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EBut very quickly, if the Chair would indulge me, there\u2019s a lovely story around salmon in New Zealand\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022481c5f0ad8ea46e487cf293e378ca793\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy to indulge you because the Minister has very little time left, so the more questions you can get in your speech, the quicker he can condense them and answer them; so yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224360321c85724a299b05a55ee4dba49c\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN\u003C/span\u003E: Sure, sure. The Minister can give me a very quick answer on the impacts of climate change on our ocean temperatures and what he\u2019s doing about it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons that we need to protect salmon is that, back in the late 1800s and early 1900s, we actually received salmon eggs from a river in California. They had a dam put in place. Their salmon couldn\u2019t survive. We got it here in New Zealand in the R\u0101kaia River. There\u2019s now been a link established with the Native Americans from that part of California, who are now wanting to take back salmon species from New Zealand to reintroduce to their habitat. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve got a number of reasons for protecting fish in New Zealand. It\u2019s not just the economic argument; there\u2019s also the cultural aspects of specific fish species.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave it at that and hope the Minister responds to that. I\u2019ll come back with a question on wetlands.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00229a7d8dcd32204c15b108528483449c32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a7d8dcd32204c15b108528483449c32\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Without doubt there are significant impacts on aquaculture as a result of the impacts of climate change. In the Pacific particularly, you see the migration of fish species because of the warming temperatures moving from some countries to others, which has an implication in regard to food security. This is a real issue that is in play within our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn regard to our strategy, we have biodiversity as one of our five key pillars. That includes blue carbon and other initiatives that we can do to look to maximise the opportunity to use sequestration within the oceans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022 data-id=\u00224527bbd74e33435687735affe8b01dbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224527bbd74e33435687735affe8b01dbb\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, there\u2019s a quite broad question to be asked here, which is quite simple in context, it is: where does the Minister see he is going to achieve gross cuts in greenhouse gas emissions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EWe know the Government has a strategy of substantial offsetting to pine forestry; many have asked already and canvassed what the strategy is around the methane, but when you simply look across our emissions profile as a country, you can start doing the maths on where we are going to achieve the direct cuts in emissions. Is it in the transport sector, Minister? Clearly, if you\u2019re expanding roads, if you\u2019ve tanked the electric vehicle market, if you\u2019re doing nothing about our $10 billion oil deficit, then how are we going to achieve gross cuts in the transport sector? What is your strategy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EIs it in the energy sector? Clearly, if you\u2019ve intended to spend $200 million on subsidising gas\u2014whatever you want to call it\u2014and expanding coalmining in Rotowaro, clearly there\u2019s not a clear pathway to those gross cuts in emissions from the energy sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003EIn the agricultural space, we\u2019ve now got 15,000 more dairy cows on the Canterbury Plains. That does mean more methane emissions. It is axiomatic that if there are more methane-emitting ruminant animals, there will be more methane emissions. Clearly, your plan is not to achieve gross cuts through farming and agriculture. Where is your plan, Minister? Give us the numbers. How will we achieve gross emissions cuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00225892aeab396542fdb9ce541112c42ae1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225892aeab396542fdb9ce541112c42ae1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Two key areas: Electrify NZ, which will double the amount of renewable energy in this country, is a key area of focus. The second is co-investment with the private sector on solutions to reduce biogenic methane, such as animal genetics, which will reduce methane from cows by 10 to 20 percent and is already pretty much ready to roll out in the Waikato in the coming years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022e1d37233ac6c4218a31ed06683c80fbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e1d37233ac6c4218a31ed06683c80fbf\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E This is my last question on methane, and I want to put together two things. We asked the Minister, repeatedly, whether or not his Government stood by its commitment to the Paris Agreement despite the scepticism expressed by the Deputy Prime Minister and the leader of the ACT Party\u2014they\u2019re the same person\u2014and the scepticism expressed by the Foreign Affairs Minister, who is also the leader of the New Zealand First Party. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThe Minister eventually made it quite clear that, yes, this Government is committed to the Paris Agreement. That\u2019s a good thing. However, alongside this, we have had some disturbing work done on methane this year where the Government appointed an independent methane review panel. Of course, the reason one appoints an allegedly independent panel is to get the solution one wants. That particular panel came up with a concept of \u201Cno additional warming\u201D. However, the Environmental Defence Society and other key environmental NGOs have said that the concept of \u201Cno additional warming\u201D would undermine commitments under the Paris Agreement. How does the Minister make these two things stack up? When are we going to get a clear and explicit target around methane? Is the Minister going to reject this concept of \u201Cno additional warming\u201D, given our commitments under the Paris Agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea8c507db9b74acb813447d31eb9308f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea8c507db9b74acb813447d31eb9308f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before we go on, can I just alert the committee to the fact that the Government, or National, has no time left.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u002218ffec5c3d3046f8a2093eecd4b00b83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218ffec5c3d3046f8a2093eecd4b00b83\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. Kia ora, Madam Chair. What happened this morning was\u2014what I saw\u2014the Minister, in his first opening comments, took almost 10\u00A0minutes, which was half of the time left. It is within the rules; I understand that. [Interruption] I thought that points of order were heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022f425fb26f4ca294dab2d3b794eb42\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I did too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221522d8b3a8da47ca9daff8985c754640\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re just heckling me and carrying on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8e1c14812f44aa78c61fe497db0860f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I remind members on my right that points of order are heard in silence. Thank you for your assistance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204c767c72b8a4f7a9a491be3309e97b4\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: This point of order needs a bit of context, because there are no Standing Orders around this. I understand it\u2019s within the rules, but I\u2019d say within the spirit of Estimates and within the spirit of transparency, it is frustrating, particularly as an Opposition wants to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211a61c9c092142aa98a83b2cb130c352\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, the point of order is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf08a83731ee4e99a4b8e255d0018a8d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: I am coming to that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022122a5189533e4234b617f49ab797a0ea\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can you come to it quickly?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1210aa742da4dc396f1d0073636e4db\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014because I just want to give that context. I think we\u2019d be willing to give up a little bit of time to the National Party. I know, for example, that the ACT Party has at least 15\u00A0minutes. I\u2019m sure that New Zealand First has at least 30\u00A0minutes or more. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori has a lot of time. I\u2019m just wondering whether there\u2019d be any leeway or consideration within the rules for us to offer some time so that the Minister can continue to be prosecuted on a really important issue of our time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f470559bc91a4e1abce83da2bfc06e35\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order\u2014new point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u002291409d404235458bb73d9670dd8477fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291409d404235458bb73d9670dd8477fa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. I\u2019m taking advice on this first point of order. Just for clarification, the whips can have this conversation, or the member could seek leave to allocate some of his party\u2019s time to the Government to carry on this conversation if they so wish. For your information, Labour has 17\u00A0minutes remaining in this debate. It\u2019s now 15 minutes\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e385bef62deb47998d8173d09545198d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e385bef62deb47998d8173d09545198d\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Chair. I seek leave for the Labour Party to give up five minutes of its time to the National Party\u2014I don\u2019t normally do a caveat\u2014for the reason that answers be given to Labour Party MPs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e080eba9b1c34493bd66d7e6946da51d\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I\u2019m not sure I understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d991fa5688d14227b2dce69b4e8a5b3b\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: We seek leave to give five minutes to the National Party, but we would assume, in kind, that they\u2019ll answer our questions they haven\u2019t been answered yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb09e83d39a74bb7b5cff0174b27511a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb09e83d39a74bb7b5cff0174b27511a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022 data-id=\u002287df21c8ea0442989cc97a8cd2977217\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233a8db41ad0c4278b7eb829406824bb5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287df21c8ea0442989cc97a8cd2977217\u0022\u003ESTEVE ABEL (Green):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister spoke about electrification. Yes, electrification is clearly a huge opportunity for us. However, we have decades of under-investment in new renewable generation in this sector through a failure of the gentailers to invest new renewable generation. Without an intervention in the electricity market\u2014which is currently paying a billion-dollar dividend while people shiver in their living rooms\u2014how is the Government going to achieve this supposed electrification? Clearly, the current market system is not enabling the building of new generation, even though there are consents granted and even though there are plenty of places where we could be putting wind turbines. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022 data-id=\u00228f8e44820fc04a1c83b8ba84807ced6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228f8e44820fc04a1c83b8ba84807ced6a\u0022\u003EHon PRIYANCA RADHAKRISHNAN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I find it rather interesting that, when the Minister stood up to respond to my questions, he talked about what can be done but not what this Government is doing to address the issue of climate change and its impact on biodiversity, on ecosystems, and, specifically, on the issues I\u2019ve raised to do with our marine environment. I would be really grateful if the Minister would tell us what is in his plan that will achieve the outcomes that I\u2019m seeking through my questions; if, in fact, he thinks that there is something that this Government is doing to protect our marine environments? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EThe second point that I would like to raise along the same lines of marine environments, and the threats therein, is the fact that there are extensive knowledge gaps, and I would like the Minister to outline what work is under way through his climate adaptation programme or any other programme to fill some of those knowledge gaps\u2014for example, while we know that the two greatest threats are ocean warming and ocean acidification, we don\u2019t really know what specific impacts there are when it comes to heatwaves and our marine fish stocks. That\u2019s a knowledge gap that needs to be plugged. We know that when pH levels shift and, therefore, the ocean acidification is worsened, that there are some impacts on marine life, but, again, we don\u2019t know the extent to that or the specificity around it. I would like to know what steps this Government is taking\u2014and the Minister, particularly\u2014to plug those knowledge gaps, because without knowing what the details are, I would assume that it would be difficult for the Government to address them effectively.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EThe second point that I want to make is around wetland restoration, and I refer specifically to the Ministry for the Environment\u2019s climate adaptation report that they have commissioned and published. It\u2019s an independent climate adaptation report that points to New Zealand\u2019s vulnerability in this space. It makes points around the fact that biodiversity is threatened as species\u2019 habitats change or disappear, and it speaks to the need for greater integration of adaptation and mitigation if it\u2019s across Government to protect the environment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EIt makes a mention of wetland restoration, specifically. We know that there\u2019s been a historical decline\u2014for example, by 2008, only 10 percent of New Zealand\u2019s original wetlands remained; 6 percent of the original swampland is all that we have left. Currently, only 0.9 percent of New Zealand\u2019s land area is wetlands. Now, there are a number of NGOs that are undertaking work to restore our wetlands. There\u2019s a distinct link between climate change and our wetlands, as well\u2014for example, carbon emissions from wetlands that are drained is an issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EPeatlands are especially vulnerable when they are drained. They release significant amounts of stored carbon into the atmosphere. In New Zealand, dried peatlands contribute to 6 percent of our carbon emissions. We also know that rewetting peatlands in peat areas could prevent the release of, I think it\u2019s about 2 million tonnes of carbon that could be prevented from releasing. We also know, at the same time, that increasing flooding from sea-level rise also means that wetlands are at danger of being completely submerged and lost. There\u2019s a huge risk there when it comes to the impact of climate change on wetlands. There\u2019s a risk of drained wetlands, too, increasing our carbon emissions, and there\u2019s a huge gain to be realised from restoration of wetlands and the rewetting of peatlands. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022154727523a59431ab210aea1cf707272\u0022\u003EParticularly, given all of that and the fact that wetlands are a hotbed for biodiversity, and a number of different species\u2014for example, whitebait, rare birds; all of those are at risk of decline and loss if we don\u2019t act now. What is the Minister doing to ensure that we mitigate or we reduce the impact of climate change on wetlands, but, equally, what are the steps this Minister is taking to restore wetlands to contribute to our climate targets? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00225fcddcaf04c34650b0281bdd6a4893a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225fcddcaf04c34650b0281bdd6a4893a0\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Firstly, thank you for the allocation of time. This Government is focused on nature-based solutions that address climate change. As the member has noted, restoring biodiversity is a key component of that, and we also need to investigate ways of harnessing nature to remove emissions from the atmosphere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EAs I noted in my opening comments, we are progressing work around a carbon removals framework, and this includes components of wetlands and other aspects, including the blue carbon components within forestry. Our intent is to have a framework that is scientifically robust and that removal activities, agnostic to what they are, have the mechanism, and if they are able to be measured and independently verified and validated from a scientific basis, then you should be able to look to get credit for that as part of the broader model. So there is work under way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EOne specific example of Government policy in this area is the work that we\u2019re doing around afforestation on Crown land, which, obviously, includes native afforestation on Crown land. It is our view that that is one mechanism that we can unlock that will have an enduring biodiversity benefit to New Zealand as a result of more native afforestation on the low-conservation, low-production farmland that we have available in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1c5c4ae11364be0977f6fff073f8fe5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1c5c4ae11364be0977f6fff073f8fe5\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Now that the Minister of Climate Change has some more time available to him, I\u2019d like to redirect his attention to the issue of international risks. I\u2019m going to quote some words from the hearing earlier this year\u2014the Minister\u2019s own words. He said: \u201CThe implications on international trade, you know, New Zealand has a reputation, and we have one of the best reputations in the world, as a primary sector exporter of red meat, dairy product, and other products. Why would we put that at risk?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EI would like to invite the Minister to address the political and economic risks to us of not setting a realistic methane target\u2014a target that we can agree on across the House\u2014and I invite the Minister to express what he thinks of the concept of no additional warming and whether that is going to affect the methane target that is being set by the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00223bfc6258c64246be8b6e3f9907002e71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bfc6258c64246be8b6e3f9907002e71\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E Within the coalition agreements that the National Party have with ACT, we have committed to undertaking a scientific review in regard to methane\u2014which we have undertaken\u2014and we will be considering that alongside the Climate Change Commission\u2019s advice in regard to the methane targets that will be considered later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EIn regard to our broader commitments and the statements that I made, I stand by those statements that I made in prior hearings, in the context of the implications of how important New Zealand\u2019s primary sector export economy is to our economy and ensuring that the products that we do export meet the requirements of customers overseas, which has a growing desire to ensure that they are sustainable in that context. In that mix, we are of the view that this is critically important in terms of our broader trade agreements and arrangements, and hence why we remain committed to these targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022baabb7ed992b4b8b8b2284165ae85063\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022baabb7ed992b4b8b8b2284165ae85063\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I want to move to adaptation again, quoting the Minister of Climate Change from the hearing earlier this year. He said, \u201CWe\u2019re now working as quickly as possible to introduce legislation to support an enduring national adaptation framework. This will help people make more informed decisions about how we adapt, provide greater certainty, support our economy, and ensure that we grow investment.\u201D In his speech earlier today, he talked of some of the range of activities that are being undertaken around adaptation, getting better information about risks, better information about cross-sharing, some cross-party work on climate adaptation, some guidance for local government. However, we have still not seen the legislation around adaptation. Could the Minister please give an indication of when we might see the legislative framework for adaptation? [Member resumes seat and then stands to seek another call]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EWell, Madam Chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4d8330a87384c9c8479bf177b9f6685\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Dr Deborah Russell.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0c6c721b909472993ab67e693a248bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: Hi, I\u2019m enjoying this so much! I do think this is very important around adaptation. The Minister referenced the select committee report on adaptation and said it was a way forward. To be honest, that select committee report pretty much just came up with exactly the same answers as the expert working group on adaptation. If we look at that select committee report, those are the solutions offered by the select committee. They are the very solutions offered by the expert working group on adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThe Minister then commissioned a separate independent review on adaptation. What I want to understand from the Minister is how he intends to reconcile the findings from that independent review on adaptation\u2014which is quite a short report, eventually, about 14 pages\u2014with the findings of the select committee and, more importantly, with the findings of the expert working group on adaptation. It seems a shame to set up an independent group when there is already a perfectly good solution at hand with respect to work around adaptation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00226fc0f58233444324a9d3ea88dc2c391a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226fc0f58233444324a9d3ea88dc2c391a\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is progressing at pace in the context of designing the building blocks for a national adaptation framework. We remain committed to be able to say more about that later this year, and it remains our intent to continue to work with all political parties. I acknowledge the importance of certainty in regard to that topic area and\u2014as and when we\u2019re in a position to do so\u2014we will continue to engage in that dialogue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022df6a5def379645caa909de7e3a1c371d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df6a5def379645caa909de7e3a1c371d\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister has made quite a large play around the use of carbon-capture technology. It underpins a large amount of the second emissions budget, and it is a key plank of the Government\u2019s strategy around reducing carbon. However, earlier this year, Fletcher\u2019s said that the proposal for a carbon capture technology unit at Kapuni was no longer going to work, and it couldn\u2019t work because it was too expensive. Has the Government decided whether or not to put extra funding into that carbon capture technology that was supposed to take place at Kapuni?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u002271d87a4f00f54f0aab403f6017953478\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d87a4f00f54f0aab403f6017953478\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E The Government remains committed to put in place a regulatory regime in regard to carbon capture, utilisation, and storage (CCUS). It is an important aspect of New Zealand\u2019s climate objective and energy security. Any CCUS-related risks\u2014noting the comments that that member has noted that have been raised in the media\u2014will be considered by Cabinet as part of the annual process that we undertake around adaptive management approaches, which is set out in the emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022c037bb4a3596402a87a595a96bdc6ffe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c037bb4a3596402a87a595a96bdc6ffe\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Minister of Climate Change has said that New Zealand is on track to meet its first and its second emissions reduction plans, emissions reductions budgets, however, that\u2019s not quite the case, actually. In fact, the Climate Change Commission has a monitoring report on emissions reductions. This monitoring report came out in July this year\u2014after our hearings, of course, but nevertheless\u2014and is something that has been referred to extensively by the Minister over the course of this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EWhat I want to understand, though, is how the Minister reconciles his claims that we are going to meet our emissions reductions plans, our emissions reductions budgets, given that the Climate Change Commission, in its monitoring report, has said that the first emissions budget is likely to be met due a combination of emissions reductions and changes to accounting methods. The second emissions budget can be met, but there are some areas of significant risk. Those areas of significant risk are around relying on reductions from carbon capture and storage, which may not be realised, and that the third emissions budget covering 2031 to 2035 requires further action urgently to be met. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThe Minister has said that we want to achieve our climate targets, that we are committed to the Paris Agreement, but it does seem that our progress towards actually meeting those targets is at significant risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022358d813329eb45f697616794aeda1d24\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022358d813329eb45f697616794aeda1d24\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Climate Change):\u003C/span\u003E In the context of any target, there is the amount of emissions that the economy produces. Projections and an update of those projections in regard to how much emissions the New Zealand economy is producing will be released later this year. That is an important consideration in the context of what the interrelationship is with the pathways for emissions reduction, and that will provide us with an updated position in terms of what the gap is across those targets. But we do remain on track in regard to both emissions budget one and emissions budget two at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022080177f03aad433abd6249a3cf0383cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022080177f03aad433abd6249a3cf0383cc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the Labour Party\u2019s time has expired. The Minister\u2019s time has 50 seconds left. It looks like we have exhausted the debate. The time for this debate has now expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022c39e9ab185cc4cf0b8c186957e86137e\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Votes contained in the Estimates of Appropriation for 2025/26 stand part of the Schedules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u00223fb9e6674dff4507b295bd34c6bb50ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223fb9e6674dff4507b295bd34c6bb50ae\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question now is, That clauses 1 to 10 and Schedules 1 to 5 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 10 and Schedules 1 to 5 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u00222833a14b0f4d46ce8e904ca5dff2ac2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222833a14b0f4d46ce8e904ca5dff2ac2a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The committee has considered the Appropriation (2025/26 Estimates) Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a10b438e28cc4185a49c86736d3d00a0\u0022\u003ETaxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002243a76e9ae6ef4f9a9f7c4b8c661013c3\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc1df05a0b95442b98103c2302da96e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc1df05a0b95442b98103c2302da96e3\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Revenue):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave to present a legislative statement\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6b5beefd5e14523aa8fc03a46d0b9e9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member doesn\u2019t need to seek\u2014well, the wording I\u2019ve got here just says \u201CI present a legislative statement.\u201D Are you seeking leave? Is it already on the Table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226edd78a8406a405d915573e0b401ce3b\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I present a legislative statement on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8b0866dd647476ea28096abca483a1b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a7aa163271e41b89f18923f0e347096\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Finance and Expenditure Committee to consider this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThis bill is aimed at making New Zealand a better place. This Government\u2019s top priority is growing the economy so that we can deliver more jobs, higher wages, and lower costs for New Zealanders. This bill aims to promote growth by welcoming talent, investment in our shores, and supporting companies trying to attract and retain talent. The bill also aims to minimise and eliminate compliance costs as far as possible and helps to make the Public Service more efficient by making better use of existing resources and freeing up time and resources for more demanding work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EI want to touch on some of the key measures in this bill, and I first want to mention the one which was brought to our attention by the private sector. Currently, new migrants are taxed on estimated overseas income, even if they don\u2019t actually receive that income. The new law will change that so that they are only taxed on money that they actually earn. This will make it fairer and more attractive particularly for skilled migrants to move here and help keep talented New Zealanders in New Zealand and not leaving. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003ETo get more technical on this issue, there was a report by the New Zealand Institute of Economic Research examining why New Zealand struggled to retain entrepreneurial migrants. It found that illiquid equity investments held by migrants in foreign companies that are not controlled foreign companies are taxed under New Zealand\u2019s foreign investment fund regime. Our FIF rules\u2014which is the acronym for the foreign investment fund regime as more commonly referred to\u2014usually assume that overseas assets are earning income at a rate of 5 percent per year. It, therefore, taxes deemed rather than actual income from equity investments. The bill, therefore, introduces a new calculation method to determine a person\u2019s FIF income. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe new method would tax eligible FIF investments on a realisation basis; that is, on dividends derived and 70 percent of gains or losses on disposal, rather than on a deemed annual basis. In addition, a migrant who remains taxable in another country faces potentially double taxation when they sell that investment. That\u2019s because investments held particularly in the US, for instance, are only taxed on dividends and when shares are realised, and a credit for our FIF tax may not be available against the US tax when that investment is sold. To address this, this bill has a proposal that allows a person subject to the two tax systems to apply the revenue account method even to shares acquired after they become a New Zealand tax resident.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes it easier for overseas visitors working remotely, sometimes known as digital nomads, to stay longer in New Zealand before being taxed, encouraging them to spend more in our economy while they are here. We are also proposing that non-resident visitors earning income through remote work may be present in New Zealand for up to nine months in a given 18-month period before incurring New Zealand tax obligations, including becoming a New Zealand tax resident. This is provided that they are tax resident in another country and that they are in New Zealand lawfully for immigration purposes and do not undertake work for a New Zealand employer or client.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EI now turn to a group of proposals in the bill which aim to reduce or eliminate compliance costs on New Zealand taxpayers. Joint ventures are one way for business people to collaborate and invest in projects together for mutual benefit. Joint ventures sometimes individually account for supplies made or received in the course of that venture in their own GST returns. However, it has emerged that this approach is not correct under the current rules. To avoid imposing compliance costs, we\u2019re proposing to validate that existing operational practice to allow for joint ventures to account for supplies made or received in the course of the venture in their own GST returns. This is about easing compliance costs for those businesses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EA growing number of New Zealanders also have solar panels on their homes, generating electricity back for them to use, but sometimes having the ability to export excess electricity back into the grid. It\u2019s new energy and it is a new income source which was not foreseen when the Income Tax Act in 2007 was passed. In many cases, the proceeds from the sale of excess electricity are likely to be taxable under the current legislation. We want to take a pragmatic approach to that. The compliance costs associated with these obligations are likely to be disproportionately higher compared to any tax revenue that is gained, also when you take into consideration the ability to claim deductions.We\u2019re proposing an income tax exemption for income earned from the sale of excess electricity from a residential property into the electricity grid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes changes benefiting FamilyBoost recipients by increases to the rebate percentages and income thresholds that could be made by Order in Council. Changes that would decrease the payment amount or the eligible population would still need to be made through primary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EOne of the Government\u2019s priorities is getting tough on crime. IRD can currently disclose information about a person to the Police on request, but that information can quickly become outdated. This bill would allow IRD to disclose updated information to Police to maintain the accuracy of information held by the Police for the purposes of the proceeds of crime regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe information held by IRD can be useful to other agencies, too, in trying to deliver better, more efficient services. Information can be shared at present through an approved information-sharing agreement. This is best practice, but it\u2019s also a long process and can hold up service delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThe bill also proposes to repeal two information requirements that are no longer required. These are section 17GB of the Tax Administration Act, which allows the commissioner to collect information for the purpose relating to the development of policy, and the additional disclosure requirements for trustees. These provisions are not necessary. The commissioner already has broad powers to collect information, including from trustees, under the Tax Administration Act 1994.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003EThis bill says that New Zealand is open for business. We\u2019re making it easier to do business, we\u2019re making it easier to attract investment, and we\u2019re also, importantly, creating the conditions for a stronger economy\u2014one that delivers more opportunities, higher wages, and a lower cost of living. It gives me great pleasure to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u0022cedf32963b5d45b4b5b0e6162befbdb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cedf32963b5d45b4b5b0e6162befbdb1\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The Labour Party supports many of the measures in this bill. The measures around employee share schemes deferring taxation events is a good measure, and a sensible one, to support our start-ups. The measures around digital nomads are sensible, and they do look to enhance what is going on in New Zealand, in terms of attracting people to come and live and work here. The measures around electricity refunds are sensible. I suspect that most people who sell electricity back to the grid are not aware that they, technically, might need to pay tax on that, but technically, also, if they\u2019re paying tax on it, they can claim expenses. It is better just to clear that one out right away. That\u2019s a sensible move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThe measures around the foreign investment fund rules seem sensible, too. However, given that the Minister led with it, I\u2019m bit a surprised to find there is no regulatory impact statement around that, and we\u2019ll certainly be asking the officials for their understanding of how this measure will work and what returns it will have and whether there are any particular impacts of it. All of these things seem pretty sensible, and, in some cases, it does just do what it says on the tin: it will reduce compliance costs. In fact, sometimes it is just ensuring that the law reflects what people are probably doing already and what is kind of consistent with the general intent of the tax law, anyway. That\u2019s probably particularly the case with GST on joint ventures. But there are some disturbing measures in this bill, and some quite worrying ones and, for this reason, we will not be supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EI want to turn first to the repeal of section 17GB. Section 17GB enabled the Commissioner of Inland Revenue to collect information for the purpose of making better tax policy, in order to make our tax system better. There is, of course, a lot of information that the Commissioner of Inland Revenue can collect already, but she or he needs to do it for the purposes of assessing tax. There is another big role that the Inland Revenue Department has and that our officials have, and that is of forming good tax policy. In order to write good and effective tax policy, we need good information. Section 17GB enabled the commissioner to collect that information, and it\u2019s going. Officials even said it is going against officials\u2019 recommendations. Officials recommended keeping section 17GB but perhaps enhancing the protections around it, to make sure that information was used only for tax policy purposes. Now, of course, that was the case already, but there were ways of putting belts and braces into the law to ensure that that was the case. But, no, section 17GB is gone, even though officials wanted to keep it so they could make better tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EInformation collected about trusts is going. Now, again, the commissioner can, obviously, collect information to assess the tax on trusts, but the information that will no longer be collected is about who is settling assets on trusts\u2014who is getting benefits from trusts. In other words, we are reducing the amount of information that is available to us about sometimes quite opaque entities, and we now no longer will be able to know how income and how assets are flowing through trusts. Here\u2019s the thing: both those measures enabled us to track wealth in this country, and we know that both of those measures were opposed by taxpayers whose affairs might otherwise be subject to more scrutiny. These two measures lead to more opacity in the ownership and distribution of assets and income in this country. People are hiding what they own and what they earn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003EThen, on top of that, we now have this new information-sharing rule. The new information-sharing rule will enable the Minister of Revenue to share information much more quickly in cases where people may have committed a crime. In other words, we\u2019ve always had a system where we try to keep the tax system away from issues of criminality, because we just want people to pay their taxes; that is being removed. What is really disturbing is the entities with whom Inland Revenue can now share information. This includes New Zealand Police, the Accident Compensation Corporation, K\u0101inga Ora - Homes and Communities, Health New Zealand, the New Zealand Transport Agency, the National Emergency Management Agency, the Office of the Privacy Commissioner, the Ministry for Ethnic Communities\u2014what on earth is that doing in here? That is absolutely ridiculous. It is one rule for the rich and another rule for the poor. We oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022c9bfbbe3be424e848eb6e12425c64e04\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c9bfbbe3be424e848eb6e12425c64e04\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This bill is a prime example of how the Government is setting greater scrutiny and punishments for people doing it tough, on some of the lowest incomes in this country\u2014lining up at Work and Income to get things like food grants\u2014who are often scrutinised in undignified ways on every purchase that they make, with the Ministry of Social Development giving itself huge ability to collect information on people on the benefit, while, at the same time, bringing forward a bill that reduces the ability for our Government agencies to make informed decisions on taxation to address really serious issues in this country on wealth inequality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EWe are the richest we have been in quite some time, as a country, and yet we have growing homelessness. We have a greater disparity between the haves and the have-nots, and this Government, instead of addressing those very same issues, is pushing forward a bill that will make it harder for Governments to have the information that they need to address how, for example, the rich hide their wealth in things like trusts. This will make it harder for the Government to make informed decisions on how we can tackle the reality that the wealthy few are accumulating an absurd amount of wealth at the expense of the rest of our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f4752d684ce408ab522b07316e39bcc\u0022\u003EDr David Wilson\u003C/span\u003E: Just not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2d0e463e6e64509a547e6be33c7fdcc\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I just heard somebody say it\u2019s not true. I recommend that this member reads the legislation to be able to assert what it does. I would caution the member of actually saying that\u2014well, the member is saying it\u2019s not true; he may be new, but he may want to read Standing Orders a bit, anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EGoing back to the bill. This bill is deeply problematic because, despite the technical bits around it, the core of this is a bill that cements this Government\u2019s position of growing wealth inequality; perhaps that is a strategy of growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EWe also have concerns about other provisions of this bill which exempt digital nomads from potential tax obligations. This Government should be quite careful with how they choose to treat people they deem digital nomads. The reality is that, overseas, we have seen that policies that benefit the so-called digital nomads\u2014people who enter here, often on visitor visas, with no purpose of trying to settle in our country and form part of our communities like many other migrant workers do. Those very same people\u2014often on high incomes\u2014end up contributing to gentrification in communities. We have seen unrest overseas because of Government decisions that have completely loosened rules in relationship to digital nomads, and this Government should be quite careful. They may be claiming that the money digital nomads spend is here, but often their incomes will go on paying for things like Airbnbs\u2014that actually don\u2019t create the wealth that we need for everyday people. The money that they will often be spending will also just be on things like allowing multiple-home owners to continue leasing these Airbnbs to those digital nomads. So we think this deserves a lot of scrutiny about the broader economic implications of the policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EI think the Government should be quite cautious in relying on things like digital nomads to enable their socalled strategy of growth, because I can\u2019t see how this bill\u2014despite what the Minister of Revenue said in his initial remarks\u2014actually addresses serious issues around our dwindling economy that is more and more reliant on things like speculators trading homes, instead of supporting our manufacturing industries, for example, that are struggling. I can\u2019t see how this bill drives the cost of living down; all it does is make it easier for the wealthy few to hide their wealth and to face less scrutiny over the current tax settings. It really undermines the previous work that IRD and previous Governments have done to ascertain where the wealthy few have their wealth and how tax systems work, and it undermines the work to make informed, non-partisan recommendations and information on these very same settings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003EMake no mistake: the Green Party cannot support this bill as it stands. We could be supporting some of the more technical components of this bill if they had come in a separate piece of legislation. But what this bill does is incredibly problematic, and it absolutely sends a message that the poor deserve a huge amount of scrutiny, whereas the rich can get a free pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u00229f956991e1584bf6b54874903c508d64\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f956991e1584bf6b54874903c508d64\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I think we\u2019re pretty clear where things are heading in this country. We\u2019ve just heard from the Green speaker Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u2014and, to be fair, the Greens are at least honest: they want a wealth tax; they want a capital gains tax. What I think I heard, though, from Dr Deborah Russell was that she\u2019s setting the groundwork for Labour to announce their wealth tax and capital gains tax policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003ELet me be clear: on this side of the House, we will be supporting this bill because we\u2019re actually about growth and boosting the New Zealand economy. We\u2019re actually about letting New Zealanders keep more of their own money, getting on with their lives, and building productive businesses, and, just being able to get on and contribute to society. Obviously, we\u2019ll be supporting this bill\u2014it\u2019s a good bill. I also will have the pleasure of being on the Finance and Expenditure Committee, where we will go through this in great detail. Look, it was good to hear the Labour member say that there were a number of measures that I think we will get a lot of support for in the select committee to work through, so that\u2019s good. I did want to call out a couple of things that I thought were good. Obviously, we have a totally different position from the Greens on digital nomads. We actually want to encourage people to come to New Zealand and to spend and invest their money, so it will be good to look at those changes, and the residential solar\u2014I was really pleased when the Minister announced that. Obviously, Rewiring Aotearoa has been putting forward a number of policies to increase solar uptake, and they were very pleased to see this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003EAgain, I look forward to the discussions on all of the measures in this bill, which will affect some 11 Acts of Parliament. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u00227105313e3bba4adb863b917cf9b59134\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227105313e3bba4adb863b917cf9b59134\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Look, I\u2019ll take a short call on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3a277d7876248a39b226c90c5338093\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022096c98bbba5540e2a5557ed78b022f03\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I apologise. I\u2019ll hand over\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b96f8845b2b447e9b2cd873e0c527151\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014no, carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226b513baf5904404a76f61a03b8e20ad\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take a short call, Mr Speaker, just to support this bill, which is a very sensible one, to rebalance some of the settings in the taxation system. Some of the comments that were made earlier about digital nomads\u2014I mean, this is a sensible contribution. People who add a lot to overseas economies already\u2014the digital nomads\u2014if they want to come and spend some time in New Zealand and contribute to our economy, it\u2019s something we should support. We want these young, connected people who are engaged in the digital economy, which is growing rapidly around the world; this is a very sensible addition. We don\u2019t believe that just adding more taxation is going to be the solution; we need to grow our economy. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6d1a38b49714569a23a9f4663635723\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6d1a38b49714569a23a9f4663635723\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support this scintillating Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill. It is a comprehensive bill that reflects the evolving needs of our tax system and the people it serves. Essentially, this bill is about streamlining the machinery of Government, removing outdated rules, simplifying compliance, and being fair to taxpayers. It\u2019s about making the system work better for everyday New Zealanders, small business, migrants, and families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has always stood for pragmatic, common-sense reform in the national interest, and we do also commend the bill addressing solar on rooftops. The bill proposes to introduce an income tax exemption, which is seldom heard from the other side of the House because we do know that they do quite like tax in any way that they can possibly inform it and in any way they can support it, so they have more room to spend on the policies that they like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003EI do know also that Matua Shane Jones and New Zealand First look forward to the energy sector encouraging uptake through fair prices. I note with some sense of anticipation to the debate around section 17GB and the member that brought up opacity in the tax situation. We would also say that privacy is an important issue for many of our supporters, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003EWe look forward to the debate, and for the benefit of the member who said that I told him that he was wrong, I did not refer to him in particular; I said that the statement was incorrect. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u0022c981a46b721247d99b6c663e35422534\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c981a46b721247d99b6c663e35422534\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te rangi nei e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire, me te mea an\u014D e kore m\u0101tou e whakaae ki t\u0113nei pire. Heoi an\u014D ko t\u0101 m\u0101tou mahi he tuwhera i ng\u0101 take ki te w\u0101hi e kore ai m\u0101tou e whakaae ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker, indeed greetings to all in the House. I stand to give voice to the statements on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party today regarding this particular bill, and to say that we will never agree with this bill. However, what we would like to do is open up the issues in the area of this particular bill that we do not agree with.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003EThis bill sets the annual rates of income tax for 2025-26, along with a list of other tax changes, which raises a number of questions from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. We believe in Aotearoa hou, where all people can thrive and where our home is more than just a playground. We want to transform the tax system in Aotearoa for the 99 percent instead of the 1 percent. We want to remove income tax from earners making less than $30,000 per year. We want to start taxing wealth instead of incomes. We want to ease the cost of living crisis by removing GST from kai.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003EThis bill reaffirms the status quo, where the hard-working people of Aotearoa subsidise the lavish lifestyles of the rich. This bill also repeals section 17GB of the Tax Administration Act 1994, which allows the commissioner to collect information \u201Cfor a purpose relating to the development of policy for the improvement or reform of the tax system.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003EEngari, there are some elements within the bill that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori sees as a positive step. This bill introduces \u201Can income tax exemption for income derived by an individual from the sale of excess electricity from a residential property to the network. Under the exemption, individuals would not need to pay tax on,\u201D. It gives Parliament power to increase FamilyBoost payments by Order in Council. While there are some sensible amendments contained within the bill, we need tax justice in Aotearoa, not fringe changes on balance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori opposes this bill because the tax system we see in Aotearoa today is a continuation of taxing workers and of refusing to tax wealth in the landholdings of the people. N\u0101 reira e kore matou e whakaae ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire. T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E[Therefore, we will never agree to this particular bill. Thanks to us all.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u002214a2c1a2d1524d6b98892f8a18f5997c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214a2c1a2d1524d6b98892f8a18f5997c\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to take a call on the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill, but Labour will be opposing this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThe three main reasons that we oppose this bill are: firstly, it is easier for Government agencies to share information only if Ministers agree that it is needed to determine entitlement to Government assistance or it would help the detection and prosecution of crimes punished for more than two years, or to remove the financial benefit of crime; secondly, the ability of the commissioner to collect information for the purposes of informing tax policy will be repealed; and, thirdly, the disclosure of information about trusts will be repealed. In essence, if you\u2019re on a benefit, you\u2019re stuffed, but if you\u2019ve got everything in a family trust, you\u2019re sweet\u2014and that pretty much sums up the National world view. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EIt will be much easier under this bill for Government agencies to share information if Ministers agree that it\u2019s needed to determine the entitlement to Government assistance, and so your rights and your privacy are able to be eroded if you\u2019re entitled to be receiving that sort of benefit from the Government. This can already be done through what\u2019s called an approved information-sharing agreement\u2014or AISA\u2014and I\u2019ve done quite a bit of work in the past on these. There\u2019s the basic privacy principle that when you give your personal information, it can only be used for the purpose that you provided it for. What happens in situations such as these is that if someone has provided health information, it typically can\u2019t be used by New Zealand Police, or if someone\u2019s given information about their housing, it can\u2019t be used by another agency without the explicit stipulation that it can be used for that reason.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003ESo we get into this information sharing that the new rules enable Ministers to bypass the AISA process directly into these agencies. There\u2019s a list of agencies that go through all of those key ones that hold personal information, which are Police, ACC, K\u0101inga Ora, Health, the New Zealand Transport Agency, the National Emergency Management Agency, the Ministry for Ethnic Communities, and the Office of the Privacy Commissioner. In other words, tax information can be used for policing purposes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EFirst of all, there are some deep concerns about whether that\u2019s going to enable people to be forthcoming with providing that information, if it\u2019s going to be used for police purposes. A lot of the work that has been done in the past shows that people are reluctant to give health information honestly to their health practitioner if it\u2019s going to be used to potentially prosecute them down the line, and that impedes or stops people from using public services that they rightly need and are entitled to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement\u2014it\u2019s good that there is one for this bill, because there is often not one\u2014shows that the only consultation undertaken with respect to this measure was with the Privacy Commissioner. No communities, no social service providers, no health professionals, and no other people\u2014not even tax experts\u2014were taken in to look at whether this should be done or not; only the Privacy Commissioner. The only options examined were the status quo and the Minister\u2019s option, and the new rules were created at the Minister\u2019s direction, so common under this Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to note that the ability for the commissioner to collect information for the purposes of informing tax policy will be repealed. This was the rule that enabled information to be collected for the high-wealth individuals project\u2014funny that\u2014and many of the people involved were really unhappy about that process. Officials suggested that instead of repealing the rule, it could be retained with strengthened protections around information collected. They have also said that repealing the rule will reduce Inland Revenue\u2019s ability to collect information solely for the purpose of policy development, which could affect the quality of future policy advice, but these guys don\u2019t mind about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, rich people will get to hide all of their information and poor people will be subject to information being disclosed at the whim of Ministers, and this is a real concern. That is the primary reason. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003ETypically, Labour would support these types of taxation bills, but the fundamental flaw is that this is one step, again, in creating a divided New Zealand, creating one set of rules for those people opposite. When they say the economy has turned a corner, it has turned a corner for them, but not for the rest of us, and this law is another example of how there are two standards in New Zealand: one for those over there, and one for the rest of the Kiwis doing it tough under a cost of living crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u00227f8cfe4d0d4b40f1840d450bc39d22dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f8cfe4d0d4b40f1840d450bc39d22dc\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. One of the little things in this bill that people may not be aware of is that we encourage people to take out solar systems\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac45536d020b498aa74aab9e0875d7d3\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Solar systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffa65d2844d94a7fba3552abedca3abe\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the thing when you put it on your roof to track the sun?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a621f5538eab4e5e95e113e12280f2ff\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Solar panels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7a263b4dc6a4163af943f5bdba0bce0\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: Solar? Solar system. It sounded funny out loud. They can earn a credit or a refund from the electricity company, and, technically, that creates a tax liability. With this bill, we think that\u2019s too hard, there\u2019s too much administration, and it\u2019s nonsensical, so we\u2019re removing it. It\u2019s just a little thing, amongst many, to get New Zealand back on track.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u002202c4dc2f7e2d43b181f5295fef070245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002202c4dc2f7e2d43b181f5295fef070245\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s interesting to hear the previous speaker talk about space. Obviously, he\u2019s going to great measures to avoid tax if you have to go to space to do that!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EAs has been traversed and talked about in this first debate on this legislation\u2014generally, we would support tax legislation if it is measured, if it is thoughtful, and if it is doing what is right to. I guess the words I would use is \u201Cto ensure that the tax system is pure and is doing what it does\u201D, which is to gather revenue, which, then, Government can distribute to support society. As my colleague the Hon Dr Deborah Russell said in her speech, the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill is something we can\u2019t support. It\u2019s something we can\u2019t support, because it feels like it is an overreach. When tax legislation comes through this House, we have good people in the Labour Party who know about tax. We have tax lawyers, we have tax lecturers, and we have people who understand this. To listen and to unpack it with them to understand what it means, what the potential is that this bill has to do, is something that we need to then stop and pause and consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EThe tax system\u2014and the IRD needs to be a separate organisation that does its one job: to gather tax, to gather revenue. When we suddenly start to have this overreach of Ministers being able to step in, when we look at things like K\u0101inga Ora, we look at things like ACC, we look at things like the New Zealand Police or the New Zealand Transport Agency having the potential of Ministers to allow access, I think it is cause for concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWe want people to do what is right. We want people to pay tax, absolutely, but we also want to make sure that people, no matter where they are, what their circumstances are, what life throws at them or what life choices they make, can always be in a position where they can pay tax. The approved information-sharing agreements already exist. This bill allows Ministers to overstep that and I think that is dangerous and something that we need to be concerned about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWe need to make sure that if you are living in a K\u0101inga Ora house, that if you do have, potentially, fines through the transport agency\u2014if you are in arrears, for example, that\u2019s fair enough, but that should be something that\u2019s dealt with, with K\u0101inga Ora; that should be something that if you have outstanding fines that are standing there with the transport agency, it is dealt with in that space. The tax system should do what it was designed to do, and that is to gather revenue. And that\u2019s it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EDeborah Russell also spoke\u2014and I was thoughtful as she was speaking\u2014around trusts and who benefits from trusts and the importance of transparency and how this piece of legislation can undermine that. We need to be very careful; we need to be very thoughtful. As this piece of legislation leaves this House, heads to select committee for debate and discussion, we hope that the Government MPs and we hope that members of the public can engage and can really prosecute and unpack what actually is being done in this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EOne thing I do want to comment on which is good is around those who have solar panels, for example, or wind or other forms of energy that they create and feed back into the national grid. Now, of course we agree with that. Of course we agree that we want to incentivise people to be able to have renewable energy within their own homes and to be able to then put that back into the system to get a little bit of money for it. The fact that that is something that will not have to be paid through income tax\u2014that is sensible, a sensible move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWe just came from the debate on climate change Estimates and the importance and the challenges we\u2019re facing. We need to remove every single barrier we can to make sure that people have options and have the ability to ensure that they can heat their home, they can run their home with solar, for example, and then any excess can be then sent back into the national grid without the need to file a tax return or do information on that. That\u2019s fair enough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003EWe can\u2019t support this bill. There are some good bits in it, but there are some really bad bits in it, and we look forward to select committee taking it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u00226e6b2fd854924ce381321f30479e8282\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e6b2fd854924ce381321f30479e8282\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I just wanted to focus on one aspect of this omnibus taxation bill, and that is the fact that it\u2019s going to encourage digital nomads. It\u2019s going to make New Zealand a more attractive place for what they call a \u201Cworkcation\u201D. That\u2019s important, given the global workforce is more digitalised and more mobile. This bill will enable a non-resident individual to visit and work in New Zealand for up to 275 days in any 18-month period without becoming subject to New Zealand income tax. It will help this Government drive the value of tourism. So I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022db71d6c4715d46cf9e7c4b308244c048\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 54\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000455\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u00226dfa036bbc3a4199b66e83b15d2d4de0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226dfa036bbc3a4199b66e83b15d2d4de0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, That the Taxation (Annual Rates for 2025-26, Compliance Simplification, and Remedial Measures) Bill be referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Finance and Expenditure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022988189c3b2004b9fa724274fde9d5ff9\u0022\u003EDefence (Workforce) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226445329fc0954edb8b30e55337cd3313\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022 data-id=\u002262fbd44b42894d9b85cbc6f1d361ff98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262fbd44b42894d9b85cbc6f1d361ff98\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister for ACC)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Defence: I move, That the Defence (Workforce) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to consider the bill and I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by four months and one day after the bill receives its first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Defence Act of 1990 and it improves when and how the Chief of Defence Force can backfill civilian roles if industrial action within the New Zealand Defence Forces puts at risk national security or the delivery of core defence outputs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EIn an increasingly volatile world, we need a defence force that is deployable, combat capable, and interoperable with our international partners, ready and equipped to do whatever is asked of it. We also need common-sense legislation which will enable the women and men who make up the New Zealand Defence Force to do their job and to do it well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand Defence Force comprises hard-working and highly skilled military personnel and civilian staff. Each plays an important role in maintaining New Zealand\u2019s defence and national security. This is why when civilian staff take industrial action, there can be very rapid and serious impacts on the readiness and outputs of the New Zealand Defence Force. Current legislative settings restrict when and how the Chief of Defence Force can backfill civilian roles, and this can put national security and the delivery of those core defence outputs at risk\u2014for example, when civilian staff take industrial action, this could mean there\u2019s no one available to guard munitions and weapons stores on military camps and bases. Other risks could include military personnel missing out on critical training, or aircraft going without the maintenance that is required before deployment. That\u2019s why this bill is so important. It seeks to remove these risks if or when industrial action occurs within the Defence Force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EWhen civilian staff took industrial action last year, the Chief of Defence Force had to seek ministerial authorisation to redeploy military personnel to perform the duties of civilian staff taking industrial action. Fourteen days later, the Minister of Defence had to return to Parliament to seek a resolution to continue to redeploy military personnel to perform civilian tasks as industrial action was still ongoing. This event showed us just how vulnerable the management of the Defence Force could be when industrial action takes place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe process also highlighted three issues. The first is that the ability of military personnel to perform core civilian duties is constrained if a direct threat to safety and health is absent\u2014for example, some civilian staff are responsible for arranging logistics to support important New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) training activities. If these staff went on strike, it may not be possible to authorise military personnel to conduct this work, because health and safety thresholds would not be met, but a delay or cancellation to training could in fact result in personnel being less prepared for military operations, and put deployment timing and commitments at risk, and this suggests that the criteria to enable an authorisation is too limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe second issue relates to military personnel only being authorised to conduct the work of civilian staff taking industrial action for a maximum of 14 days. Should the Minister wish to extend this authorisation, they must seek a resolution from this House. This process is onerous when we consider that other employers can simply ask their own staff to cover the work of those taking industrial action, without an authorisation or a resolution from Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe third matter relates to the process. To seek a resolution from the House can result in sensitive information being shared in Parliament. This could prejudice national security and put members of the New Zealand Defence Force at risk. These challenges show that the Chief of Defence Force needs greater flexibility to manage the workforce when industrial action occurs within NZDF. To mitigate the risks presented by the existing process, I, on behalf of the Minister of Defence, propose to introduce a new process to authorise the armed forces to conduct the work of New Zealand Defence Force civilian staff who are taking industrial action. This would only apply when there are reasonable grounds to believe that an authorisation is needed to avoid prejudicing national security or the ability and/or readiness of the armed forces to perform specific operational duties that are integral to the core defence outputs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe second part of these criteria may sound broad, but it is worded intentionally so that multiple tests must be met before the criteria can apply\u2014for example, the \u201Creadiness\u201D to be \u201Cprejudiced\u201D: it must be shown that industrial action has an impact on personnel being ready and equipped for deployment or other operational activities. To fit the meaning of specific operational activities, the activity must be consistent with the Defence Act of 1990 or authorised by Government or by mechanisms such as the defence output plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe bill also makes procedural changes to ensure that authorisations can be efficient and effective. Rather than an authorisation lasting for 14 days, the Minister of Defence will be able to say how long an authorisation will last, and this would remove the requirement to have a parliamentary debate about whether the New Zealand Defence Force can deploy people within their own organisation for longer than 14 days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that the intent of these changes is not to prevent industrial action in the defence force; these changes are intended to ensure that the industrial action has limited impact on the Defence Force, and the defence and security of New Zealand. Changes will, of course, continue to preserve the right of civilian staff to take industrial action. The authorisation of military personnel to cover civilian tasks when industrial action occurs is not taken lightly but, when required, it should be practical in its application. This is why the bill also increases the number of days the Minister of Defence may authorise the armed forces to conduct the work of Public Service employees outside of the New Zealand Defence Force, from 14 to 30 days. The bill enables the Chief of Defence Force to better manage their workforce. It ensures that the security of New Zealand and the safety of New Zealanders endures while civilian staff exercise their rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EWe face the most challenging strategic circumstances in New Zealand\u2019s modern history and certainly the worst that anyone today working in politics or foreign affairs can remember. That\u2019s why the practical changes contained in this amendment must be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003EThe selfless and committed women and men of the New Zealand Defence Force deserve to have legislation that enables their readiness to deploy to and on behalf of New Zealand, and it\u2019s critical we ensure that we can always protect New Zealand, New Zealanders, and our way of life. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022b56260d726b346e1b1da16078aa12a8f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b56260d726b346e1b1da16078aa12a8f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022 data-id=\u00220df46264d9d94bbbb4905112904492e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220df46264d9d94bbbb4905112904492e6\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Can I start my contribution on this bill by acknowledging all of the New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) personnel\u2014men and women\u2014who serve our country in different ways, overseas and here, domestically. They do a fantastic job representing New Zealand, and I want to acknowledge them from the outset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI want to put it on the record for the Government, at this point in time, that Labour won\u2019t be supporting this bill. I want to point out why, and I want to also look towards how we might be able to make sure that this bill can have broader consensus across the House, because we do think there are some smart things in here around process and the way that we might be able to look towards supporting the decision making when these decisions are made to deploy NZDF uniformed personnel into civilian roles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EI want to start by saying this: when the Minister was making cuts to the civilian roles in the Defence Force, we asked this House and the Minister, on numerous occasions, whether those cuts would have a meaningful impact on the role of our NZDF personnel to either deploy or to do their job. The Minister told this House, \u201CNo, it wouldn\u2019t.\u201D\u2014\u201CNo, it wouldn\u2019t.\u201D\u2014yet here we are, saying that there are challenges here because there is industrial action being taken, and, now, all of a sudden, the Government is trying to backfill those spaces to make sure that they can continue the very basics of their functions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re the Labour Party. We stood up for those who work in the civilian roles\u2014important civilian roles acknowledged by the Chief of Defence Force\u2014important civilian roles that allow the NZDF personnel to do their jobs to their very best. The Government decided, at the time, to make significant cuts. Now, when we look across industrial action, we can\u2019t simply look at the NZDF in isolation. There is industrial action being taken against this Government in so many sectors it\u2019s not funny. That side of the House might laugh, but let\u2019s have a good hard look at it: teachers, nurses, doctors, civilian roles in the NZDF, and the list goes on and on. We want to be very clear that when we make sure we decide to deploy the NZDF into these spaces, there are strong checks and balances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EThe Minister pointed out that the Minister of Defence can come in here and make the statement without this Parliament debating the point. I don\u2019t agree with that. I believe that that is an erosion of the democracy that this House stands for. Every party in this House should be able to debate those decisions and put on record, very clearly, what their position is. Now, there are some exceptions, and I\u2019ll give it that. When we had the coronavirus and the one-in-100-year pandemic in this country, we were in Government then. We made the decision to utilise our NZDF personnel to support our quarantine activities and other activities to keep this country safe. All we got from the current Government is, \u201CWell, the Labour Government killed the NZDF.\u201D We know it was a challenging time, but, now, this Government\u2019s prepared to change the law to say that uniformed personnel can fill the roles of the civilian workforce in the NZDF.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003ENow, I ask this House: is that right and is that fair? It isn\u2019t. When there are checks and balances in place, they must continue to be upheld so that the public have faith in our democracy. What\u2019s going to happen\u2014I can see it\u2014is the decision-making pyramid will get smaller and smaller and, before you know it, we\u2019ll have too much power in the hands of too few. That\u2019s the challenge when you erode democratic rights.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ll say it again to the House: we\u2019re prepared to work with the Government on some of the proposals in this bill because we do believe that some of them are common sense, but, ultimately, the Government must answer this question: why is the civilian workforce taking industrial action against this Government? Silence from the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003EWe know that the decisions made by this Government to make cuts across the public sector, which include the civilian workforce in the New Zealand Defence Force, would have an impact. That Government stood up every day in this House and said, \u201CNo, it won\u2019t. Health services won\u2019t be impacted.\u201D\u2014what\u2019s happened? Longer wait times; \u201CNo, it won\u2019t. The roles on the NZDF will be fine, and they\u2019ll be able to undertake their roles safely.\u201D Now we\u2019re being told, \u201CHold on. We might have to change the law so we can deploy to backfill those roles.\u201D Let\u2019s work together to see if we can get broader consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u002235fbb2f54a8b4cb7830d1234613dd6d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235fbb2f54a8b4cb7830d1234613dd6d6\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Let me also echo the comments by the Hon Peeni Henare to acknowledge our defence personnel. I\u2019m probably not the only M\u0101ori in this Whare that has always had relations in all the various different armed forces, both before and also currently. When you think of them as wh\u0101nau, think of them as workers, you always want the best for them. Also noting that many of them often move over to these civilian roles as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EWhen I look at this legislation, I see a pattern of behaviour from this Government. I see a pattern of behaviour which is trampling on the rights of workers. I see this, and it was articulated by the Public Service Association (PSA), actually, where they say this is like strike-breaking legislation. There\u2019s a strike happening, the Government doesn\u2019t like it, so they bring somebody in. Imagine how awkward it is going to be in the smoko room on those days, because I can guarantee you that many of these workers, whether they\u2019re uniformed or not, will have those relationships as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EI do support what the PSA is saying: it is a pattern of behaviour; we are seeing that right across the country. We are seeing teachers on strike, we are seeing nurses on strike, hospitality workers on strike, because this Government is trampling on the rights of workers. I see this as just another step in that direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EI say that because if you go through the regulatory impact statement, there was a suggestion that, actually, they should sit down with the workers\u2014sit down with the workers, sit down with the unions, those that undertook the strike before\u2014and actually have a conversation about how to best deal with the situation. When I talk to workers, they are always well aware of the health and safety implications of strike action. They will always try to do their best to make sure that our core services continue in the case of hospitals or in the case of our firefighters, as well. I would suspect that would be the same case with these workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EIt requires a Government to engage and it requires a Government to have good-faith practices. It requires a Government to actually understand that they need to work with workers, understand that what workers want is dignity, first of all, but also decent jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe regulatory impact statement does make interesting reading. Previously, the legislation was: well, unless it\u2019s a work and health and safety kind of issue\u2014that\u2019s when all this stuff kicks in. However, there was a difference of opinion that I could see in the regulatory impact statement, which shows that the Ministry of Defence did not recommend including the delivery of core outputs. When I heard the Minister talking earlier saying, \u201CWell, actually there are national security implications\u201D, I think the members opposite should spell out exactly what they mean by that; give us clear examples. He also talked about a readiness test\u2014I was listening carefully. They should spell out exactly what that means as well and give us real-life examples that people can understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EThe other issue I see around the core delivery of outputs is: what is that? It could be anything that the Minister just dreams up. Maybe the photocopier is broken and it\u2019s going to inhibit the delivery of a core output. Is that what we\u2019re including? Is that one of the elements? That is not clear in this case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EI do not think that this bill is sufficient. I do not think it has really engaged widely in the way that it has. I am disappointed that we are going to be moving to a shortened select committee process. I see that within the pattern of behaviour of this Government; it\u2019s that pattern of behaviour which concerns me. It\u2019s a pattern of behaviour that should concern all of this House, because when people feel that they are disrespected in their jobs, they look elsewhere. When they feel that people don\u2019t appreciate what they\u2019re doing, they look elsewhere. What we need is for people to stay in this country to make it the best place that it can be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EI also make the other point as well about whether this Government is actually looking after defence personnel in the best way that they can. Why are all of these roles being done by civilian personnel? Is it because there\u2019s not enough support in there for our defence personnel as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003EI do not commend this bill to the House. It is not thought out, it is a strike-breaking bill, and the Greens will not support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u00224c2f970c57fa4655bfcd17ae76cf49ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c2f970c57fa4655bfcd17ae76cf49ab\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the ACT Party, and I too would like to firstly give a shout-out to the men and women who serve New Zealand. We know that times are really tough out there with the geopolitical situation, so, more than ever, we really appreciate you and the hard work that you do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003ELook, I think it would be wrong of me not to just set the record straight. This bill is not intended to backfill any roles that the civilians may or may not play within the Defence Force. That is completely not true. What this bill does is something that, actually, the Minister can do at any point of time, anyway, when it comes to industrial action. It just makes that process slightly easier. That is all it is. For those that are sitting at home, I\u2019m going to make this really simple. I\u2019m going to tell you exactly what this bill does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EThis bill, essentially, extends a time period from when a Minister can use those in uniform to do activities such as security. If we had security guards going on strike\u2014we want them to still be able to go on strike; that is part of their rights, and they\u2019re able to do that. We want to still encourage that, but we need to make sure that our bases are safe. Could we have security walk off and just leave our bases open? It blows my mind. This is actually enabling those employees to be able to actually strike and for our Defence Force to maintain safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EGoing from 14 days to 30 days is not a massive shift. For a Minister to have to come back into the House and reaffirm this isn\u2019t a huge deal. We\u2019re only extending this out by a fortnight, and there could be circumstances in which industrial action could go on for some time\u2014we\u2019re not sure; we\u2019re just foreseeing this in the future. It\u2019s a waste of this House\u2019s time for a Minister to be coming back and forward over something that is, quite frankly, able to happen out there in the private sector already.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003EI think, as a new MP, I was actually quite amazed that this is something that the Minister needed to do, because I would have thought that we would want to enable any of our civilians doing jobs within the Defence Force to be able to strike a lot easier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003ENow, to those across the House that said that we should be listening to those employees, I 100 percent agree. That\u2019s why this is going to the select committee. It\u2019s coming to a good select committee, and I really do hope that we get good engagement. I\u2019m going to commend this bill to the House, and I look forward to hearing more about it when it comes to our great select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022 data-id=\u00222f1237341aaf4f55a2c68cbd19ff989c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f1237341aaf4f55a2c68cbd19ff989c\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E It is a great honour to speak on this bill, on behalf of New Zealand First, and I would like to join colleagues across the House in acknowledging the work of our armed services and the role they play in keeping us safe and in being prepared, actually, to walk into what, for many of us, would be unimaginable danger.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has always been a major supporter of our military. We\u2019re very proud of the investment that the coalition is putting into our armed forces and our military at the moment in this greatly upheaved geopolitical environment, and, of course, we\u2019ve got a fine track record of supporting our military. We were very honoured to have, in our last term in Parliament, the Hon Ron Mark as defence Minister and veterans Minister, and anyone who knows Ron or was around him in that time will know that no one was prouder to serve in that role than Ron; so a shout-out to Ron. The fact that we\u2019ve got the P-8 Poseidons and the Hercules coming through now is a direct result of his advocacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003EThis bill, as Laura McClure has just pointed out, is actually quite a minor tweak to a provision that is already in legislation, in terms of just making a 30-day provision rather than a 14-day provision. It\u2019s a very common-sense amendment to what there is already the ability to do. This is not undermining workers\u2019 rights\u2014we do support their right to take industrial action\u2014but we cannot, under any circumstances, be enfeebling our military or encroaching on their ability to serve or to execute critical tasks that they do. I might add that it\u2019s not only military or offensive operations; often it is in state of emergency and severe weather events like Cyclone Gabrielle. As the Hon Peeni Henare referenced, during COVID they were called into action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003EHaving any encroachment on the ability of our armed forces or our military to execute their responsibilities\u2014this bill takes away some of the uncertainty or the narrowness of the current provisions when there is lawful industrial action being undertaken by the civil staff who play such an important role in supporting our military. New Zealand First will be supporting this bill. We\u2019re fully in support, so we commend the Minister for bringing it forward and commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022 data-id=\u0022c6428dd833534b9c8d4c53d21edea2a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c6428dd833534b9c8d4c53d21edea2a9\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Te Tai Tokerau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. I think it\u2019s one thing to open with a speech\u2014not mine; what I was listening to\u2014as if people don\u2019t quite get it. You know, it\u2019s like \u201CSo I\u2019m going to clarify something.\u201D There\u2019s something, I think, arrogant about that and assuming that people don\u2019t actually get what\u2019s going on. People do get that, because they don\u2019t trust what\u2019s going on. So when people think about \u201CGee, should I really listen?\u201D, the reason they don\u2019t, unfortunately, is because too many of our people, M\u0101ori included, just do not trust anything that\u2019s coming out from those to my left in the House. So don\u2019t be surprised, shocked, and cry-baby about the fact that people do not trust, they do not listen, and they can\u2019t take you seriously. That\u2019s the point that I want to make as I open up our position, as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and say we will not be supporting this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EWhat we do recognise, and I tautoko the k\u014Drero a Hon Peeni Henare; e mihi ana ki w\u0101 t\u0101tou whanaunga i roto i te New Zealand Defence Force [I support the statement of Peeni H\u0113nare; I acknowledge our relatives in the New Zealand Defence Force].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori women, M\u0101ori men, all women and men in that special and important Defence Force.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EIn fact, what it seems to me is\u2014and, again, noting some other comments from my immediate right, here\u2014what is this going to be like in the smoko room? You know, how is this going to go? You\u2019ve got our Defence Force team, and then you\u2019ve got them working and taking the space of our civilian work\u2014that\u2019s not a good, smart, or safe way, I think, to treat people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EJust picking up again that this is already something that can happen in an extension of time. The reason, again, that I want to affirm is that the people don\u2019t get those points, and nor do they even probably care about them, because they don\u2019t trust, overall, the approach that this Government is taking, and they fear what this Government is doing. You would have and you would have seen that, obviously, when 100,000 people came and walked on this Parliament and just said, \u201CYou\u2019re screwing up, change what you\u2019re doing.\u201D\u2014which, of course, you haven\u2019t taken a bit of notice of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ESo back to this particular issue. Last year, the members of the Public Service Association (PSA)\u2014that\u2019s right, that\u2019s right. The ACT Party was the only one that agreed to that one, and the rest of you woke up and did a good thing and voted against it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ELast year, members of the PSA working within the Defence Force were offered a 0 percent pay increase. The only way they were able to improve that situation was through strike action. That right to strike is what allowed progress to be made\u2014OK? That\u2019s how it happened, so that they could actually make that happen. But this bill threatens to remove that power. It\u2019s that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ab17f97bd92464b8370b3d8fbade51f\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: No, it doesn\u2019t\u2014no it doesn\u2019t. That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5ba5a8b8f494ac0a6761080276f951a\u0022\u003EMARIAMENO KAPA-KINGI\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely true, and you can\u2019t be trusted with telling the truth, so I\u2019m just going to carry on. This bill threatens to remove that power. If the armed forces are legally enabled to take over the roles of striking staff, then the impact of striking is, effectively, neutralised. The strike becomes symbolic, without consequence or leverage. This undermines the very purpose of industrial action. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003ENo workplace can improve if workers are stripped of meaningful avenues to advocate for their rights, and this bill isn\u2019t just an attack on the New Zealand Defence Force civilian staff; it\u2019s a gateway for wider attacks on our nurses, our teachers, our firefighters. [Interruption] I know that there\u2019s a little bit of cry-baby over here to the left of me, but, again, what you\u2019re not recognising is that even if your points that you are attempting to make by squealing right now\u2014they might even be relevant. But here\u2019s the thing that you\u2019re not getting: people do not trust much of anything that you are doing right now\u2014all right? They don\u2019t trust you, and so why on earth would they even bother listening? They cannot take you seriously and, obviously, we do not take you seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003EThe party has no interest in this, and we will not be supporting it. T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u002225e06b4b5adc4a4cbc22890a9009bf2a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225e06b4b5adc4a4cbc22890a9009bf2a\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E You want to talk about trust? Let me tell you who I trust. I trust the 12,000 Kiwis this morning that got out of bed, put on their uniform, and went to serve in our Defence Force, willing to do whatever it is that their country asks of them. Don\u2019t tell me on the other side\u2014and we hear it from Labour and we hear it from Green and we hear it from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori about employment conditions and workplace relations. These people are not employees; they are service people. They serve. They do what their country asks. The illiteracy of what our Defence Force is and does and who they are, on the other side of the House, is shocking. People that think that suddenly we\u2019re going to have issues in the smoko room wouldn\u2019t know what one looks like on the inside of the base. The gallant members on this side of the House know exactly what that\u2019s like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EYou want to ask about readiness? Let me explain to them, Mr Tuiono, what readiness is. It is the people that sit at home through Christmas, through weekends on rosters to respond to national contingencies, to search and rescue, and to a whole range of things. It\u2019s medics, it\u2019s technicians, it\u2019s soldiers, it\u2019s sailors, and it\u2019s air crew\u2014people waiting to serve this country\u2014and we should be supporting them. That means that if a civilian workforce wants to do what they\u2019re legally entitled to do and take industrial action, which does not change\u2014anyone that says that would be lying. If they want to take that action, we should be supporting them by allowing them to go and do jobs that they already do. There are already military personnel\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4ca4cc5411f4905b1e974d906283186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e1f33bf14bc4e3f890c68e0a7ccc776\u0022\u003EMariameno Kapa-Kingi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I was just wanting to clarify whether, with the hand action, the member was referring to a liar or anyone lying, and I hope it wasn\u2019t me. I wanted to make that point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240a25d6f0d224072bc6f70927a4c4003\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It was a general enough clause to not be specifically accusing anyone in particular of lying, but the member will be careful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cab4c6e951614470b9b2cb2c4dd6fb12\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: There are military personnel guarding military bases today. It seems outrageous that we had to come to Parliament to ask them to do that. There are military personnel servicing aircraft, and yet we had to come to Parliament to ask if more could service aircrafts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003EThis is a common-sense bill. It is something that I would have thought was in the national interest and that every party could unite on. I cannot believe the fundamental attempt at politics on the other side. There is no understanding of what a defence force does. There is no respect for them; there is no support for them, but that\u2019s what this party is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022d15eb38140374e459ee7c65c000cc00e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d15eb38140374e459ee7c65c000cc00e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025091059b4cc0c86824e1493e5e46dd0c271d0000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 1 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"