"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc223a666702497c9200bf3b5b35a2cc\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223574a8719fbc46d693ad73b10b70b377\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b00a73b088904ce98144375780268ab2\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b6ee9a1fb3844025b3b1fcda93c54dc2\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u002239354f22dbf440edaa06d2a8d3ca798a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239354f22dbf440edaa06d2a8d3ca798a\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231881f094c6e4372ad010da8529a2b43\u0022\u003EVisitors\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022da428a58d2fb45928c291137c96ffde7\u0022\u003EAustralia\u2014Tasmanian Assembly\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022344f617594c64904a4172928b9014ece\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022344f617594c64904a4172928b9014ece\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sure that members will want to join with me in welcoming to our Parliament Helen Burnet, the Deputy Speaker of the Tasmanian Assembly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228172e30699aa42268ea6e3b760e9b4ff\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002259ef9c79a3ce4b9da91ebc33770a2791\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5f82f0af9144a9e93d8fe2bfbd2a49d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5f82f0af9144a9e93d8fe2bfbd2a49d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Four petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002255932932ec254dbfb8f4922562592e43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255932932ec254dbfb8f4922562592e43\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Positive Money New Zealand requesting that the House inquire into the Reserve Bank providing financing towards significant infrastructure projects at zero, or near to zero interest rates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Brian Webb requesting that the House pass legislation that prevents Donald Trump and his associates and family who have been convicted in America from entering or investing in the realm of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Jazmine Watson requesting that the House urge the Government to install CCTV cameras in all playgrounds and parks in New Zealand, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Education Outdoors NZ requesting that the House urge the Government to keep outdoor education as a senior general curriculum subject.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022550670f5a01f4c748337e75bab6010d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022550670f5a01f4c748337e75bab6010d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered 10 papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00222898921b8556466fa2edbb7eb0363965\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222898921b8556466fa2edbb7eb0363965\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual reports of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade, together with the International Development Cooperation Programme and non-departmental appropriation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EGuardians of New Zealand Superannuation, New Zealand Super Fund, and Elevate New Zealand Venture Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EK\u0101inga Ora Homes and Communities, the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development, and Treasury, together with non-departmental appropriations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of non-departmental appropriations to 2024-25 of the regional development portfolio, the resources portfolio, and business, science and innovation and the housing portfolio in Vote Housing and Urban Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESerious Fraud Office long-term insights briefing, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2025-26 statement of performance expectations for Guardians of New Zealand Superannuation, New Zealand Super Fund, and Elevate New Zealand Venture Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00228bc6624044e8419382317c4769c0a5f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bc6624044e8419382317c4769c0a5f3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Two select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002281ff9c01ff9c402799429c68d486798e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281ff9c01ff9c402799429c68d486798e\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Business Committee on the recommended sitting programme for 2026, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Justice Committee on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00220297388a6f434ba2872d88a096367a5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220297388a6f434ba2872d88a096367a5c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for second reading and the report of the Business Committee is set down for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002264b07864d00343c0b49f33203806c48c\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226773d6a1fc7f4c9d9530c1b68f36c0ea\u0022\u003ESport New Zealand\u2014Ministerial Direction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00220f89f18123394c2cbac901e9f1563708\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f89f18123394c2cbac901e9f1563708\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received an urgent letter from Cushla Tangaere-Manuel seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the Minister for Sport and Recreation directing Sport New Zealand to provide support to facilitate the resolution of the dispute between Netball New Zealand and Dame Noeline Taurua. This is a particular case of recent occurrence. The Minister for Sport and Recreation is not responsible for the resolution of the dispute, but is responsible for directing Sport New Zealand. The bar for an urgent debate is a high one. I do not think that issuing such a direction to a Crown entity is a matter that warrants setting aside the business of the House. The application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002272df43719e704080b935e2adf0ab6f7e\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b36dd4b1d2f64dfea18448d9f36aa830\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c9286b73f2ea4a7b8d4c483fa731a74c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2b0be8f06df438d9de57aaaca7d3ff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2b0be8f06df438d9de57aaaca7d3ff5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa8548d2cf7948c6a3e5da6f1dcd041f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa8548d2cf7948c6a3e5da6f1dcd041f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc6a70fecc104f9ba34f2a4174e090f8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Has he or any Government Minister requested or received advice on limiting the right to strike for any Government workforces; if so, what was the nature of that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce1bb5206e9140e1840a5c7af3f858b6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We respect the unions\u2019 right to strike. We also encourage them to think about the impact they\u2019re having on kids, parents, and patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d111a058347403c814e15b2f871d2f1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Prime Minister whether or not he or any of his Ministers had requested or received advice on limiting the right to strike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229c5c36bab8e49d9a72a28f9dfccec3e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Prime Minister might like to make a further comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b12720a96884471684dd64639bd0c3f4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Not that I\u2019m aware of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5778046c354cabb96e5ba1bb92fc04\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So why did Simeon Brown say that limiting the right of doctors to strike was something that the Government would consider?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022871aa57282a443f5965e0861e6927c7c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: He talked about the fact that, actually, we want doctors to consider the rights of parents, patients, and kids. He said that, ultimately, we need to balance the right to strike and actually make sure we protect the interests of other New Zealanders. That is something that he said we may ultimately consider, but I\u2019d just say to that member and to all your friends in the unions to encourage them to get back around the bargaining table. Let\u2019s negotiate tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fce8d15180d4dd7926bfeb988bdd936\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So how is it in the interests\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249cf91765f554aa5830266c39b1ce4a1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for your own team to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022816f5efe3c1f48b581ddc235ac12fc0a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How is it in the interests of parents, patients, and kids for the Government to offer public sector workers like teachers, doctors, nurses, and others pay increases that are less than the rate of inflation\u2014and so amount to a real-terms pay cut\u2014and not address the workload issues that they have been raising?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0c40f616ade4e60b445ca3bc6613bf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s just not true. What we have said is that we expect teachers to be able to come around the bargaining table and negotiate with their employer, the Public Service Commissioner, and actually do the negotiation there. But, again, there are offers that have been extended to the unions that haven\u2019t been taken out to members. Asking teachers to consider whether they could do their professional development and their teacher-only days in one of the 12 weeks of school holidays is not an unreasonable request\u2014and having a discussion about a Palestinian State from a teachers\u2019 union is not a priority about improving attendance or education outcomes for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022329abf5975a94f9c9eb6eb7b3a0b78e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why didn\u2019t the Government increase eligibility for the game development rebate, given the current $40 million budget for the rebate isn\u2019t being fully utilised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267ce01317e4b4d62bcd01c5d97e31b17\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I\u2019m very proud of the progress that\u2019s been made in the gaming sector under this Government. When I looked at the numbers a few months ago, and don\u2019t hold me to account, but the 38 percent increase in the size of the gaming sector\u2014I think it actually hit something like $780 million in the last year, which is fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2f5488402ab48de979e7a48d10f65b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why isn\u2019t he aware that the gaming sector has grown 86 percent in the last 2\u00BD years, since the gaming rebate was introduced by the previous Labour Government, and that his Government, despite repeated requests from the sector, has not been willing to expand eligibility so that the budget that was set aside for it actually gets spent?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d717c6cff004c44bad3d72f8c0782a1\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Isn\u2019t it great? We\u2019re getting a question on the third Labour policy of this week, but we didn\u2019t get one for the one and two, and this is really the big deal that\u2019s going to move the needle for Labour! I\u2019d just say that getting in behind and backing fast track, public-private partnerships, roads of national significance, NCEA changes\u2014those are things that we want to hear from the Leader of the Opposition on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a44a1db53f824fa2914bbe63f97919dc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Can he name one other sector of the New Zealand economy that\u2019s grown by 86 percent in the last 2\u00BD years, and, if he can\u2019t, why isn\u2019t he willing to back the sector that is?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e5b21e568fd4b15aa492c79715d6a07\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are backing the sector. That\u2019s why it\u2019s so great to see the growth that\u2019s taking place in the sector, but it\u2019s also why we\u2019re backing farmers because, actually, dairy is up 14 percent, red meat is up about 9 percent, and horticulture is up 19 percent. Those are fantastic results\u2014record results\u2014in our primary industry sectors, and, again, I just encourage the member to support what the Government is doing to free and liberate our farmers, who are treated as villains and are deeply, deeply valued.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0ee75261fc349f7a8cb34de7d8c0704\u0022\u003EHon Dr Shane Reti\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of the recent gaming sector review where some businesses saw \u201Cincreasing the number of grants available through CODE as the most effective lever for further development\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ccd3a1be2a4ad5a226e59bbe89993b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I am, and I appreciate the work that the member is doing to actually improve our science sector and to actually encourage more start-ups across a range of technology sectors in this economy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224770d38902e84a84b4bba2f2c2babc8c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u002289c2961612c343aaabef1202c55232fd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289c2961612c343aaabef1202c55232fd\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00226d7b20bad83d4edfb44666e1b2dd1f8a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d7b20bad83d4edfb44666e1b2dd1f8a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Acting Minister of Finance)\u003C/span\u003E: This morning, the New Zealand Superannuation Fund published its latest annual report. It shows that the Superannuation Fund\u2019s total size was $85 billion at 30 June 2025, with an average return since its inception of 10.1 percent per annum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c49597966f2d4e029ebd897e840b043a\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Superannuation Fund compare to other Government-owned investment funds?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f97575cbb74039b7b9dc00b9e0bb57\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Different countries\u2019 funds have their own approach to investment. There are a number of common practices. These funds and their investment companies, typically, buy and sell a range of assets; diversify their portfolio, including by investing internationally; seek to generate strong long-term financial returns for their investor base; actively manage risk; and reinvest their profits to ensure fund growth and sustainability over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf93056a302a41fe8a14d83c96fea2bd\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Superannuation Fund sell assets, and do other Government-owned investment funds sell assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266666747955e4f179f3bad2c2973273d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and yes. Funds sell assets and they buy other assets. For example, just to take a random example, when Temasek was established in Singapore in 1974, its initial portfolio of $354 million Singaporean comprised shares in companies, start-ups, and joint ventures previously held by the Singapore Government. This included, I\u2019m advised, a bird park, a hotel, a detergent producer, a start-up airline, and an iron and steel mill. Of the 35 companies in Temasek\u2019s initial portfolio, only 10 still remain, directly or indirectly. That means that less than 30 percent of their original seed assets are retained by them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237dad0885d324977b032b523cd10031b\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What aren\u2019t they talking about their own policies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b9f620f2004f15ab4ae3dceb25d23a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m talking about Temasek policy. The other 70 percent have been divested or liquidated as Temasek invested, divested, and grew their portfolio to $434 billion Singaporean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221af8926ce7fb4cd196e8f7669dea0030\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Do Government-owned investment funds typically invest in other countries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260048429020442fda64ebf483173e82f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because they\u2019re trying to diversify and get as good a return as possible for the citizens they represent. Let me again refer to just a random example: Temasek. Around half of their portfolio consists of companies and assets outside of Singapore. In fact, their sovereign wealth fund, GIC, invests in more than 40 countries worldwide. As literate investors know, diversification across countries and industries is essential to reduce risk and protect portfolios from market volatility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b40f0c4ac8b1440087852779db4fdd0c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022266258244ffd4da8b040ec282e1a6c6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022266258244ffd4da8b040ec282e1a6c6d\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00221cf7214b66a64a8b8b015740b3dbd216\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cf7214b66a64a8b8b015740b3dbd216\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Acting Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, including the comments I\u2019ve just made about Temasek. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ef014ae78f44fa3b2f7ec0db6a14ec3\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How can she stand by her statement that \u201CCosts are under control, and inflation is under control\u201D when there have been four consecutive increases in inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225213fec114874640a88b56b1ea7ec156\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, inflation is within the target band. Three years ago, it was 7.3 percent; it is now 3 percent. I would put our record of inflation up against that member\u2019s any day of the week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022479acc7642684db594740bfe7d6c50ec\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is a pay offer below the 3 percent rate of inflation an effective pay cut; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211d7631fdc1f43dd98708e0e18093348\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s not for me to get into the bargaining between the unions and the Public Service Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db96748e85cb4f818675028ff7149dc0\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How does a pay offer for teachers, firefighters, and nurses that does not keep up with the cost of living help their families, who are struggling with the increasing cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0c20a657dd74584a40fab491ba0dbd1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has made generous offers in relation to all of the pay disputes that are currently under way. The other point that I would make is that\u2014as that member\u2019s party and other members have been making repeatedly and, in fact, allied with the unions\u2014it is not just about pay. One of the issues that has been raised repeatedly over many years in relation to education, for example, is the extra investment required for learning support. The Government has come to the table and put a record investment in Budget 2025 of over $700 million. To quote the union\u2019s own words, this is not just about pay, and we agree. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227362eabdee6744c8b7caf5f30c5fa0c8\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that \u201CWe would love to pay everyone more, but for that to happen, we\u2019ve got to be a much wealthier economy.\u201D; if so, would there have been more money for workers had she not handed out pay increases for board directors, $2.9 billion for landlords, and $300 million for the tobacco industry? [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cad45551145d4fa19c91a7678e54daaf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK\u2014sorry, that\u2019s just ridiculous. If you didn\u2019t like the question being asked from your side of the House, talk to the member away from the general furore of the House. When someone is about to answer a question, hold your tongue until they\u2019ve at least said one or two words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f3d0a931774500b9c97ebb1c506563\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: To take each of the three stupid assertions in that question in reverse order: the tobacco claim by the member is inaccurate and wrong; in relation to the board directors, if the last Government had not appointed boards that ran so many Crown companies\u2014like, to take a random example, K\u0101inga Ora\u2014so badly, we would not have been put in a position where we had to bring in some commercial expertise to get the books back on track; and, in relation to the first part of the question, I always agree with the Prime Minister. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002228a8393c4d7744289b52e4bd4756b5c1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u002222f9d29ac81e4fbe83e06cefc9c45c41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222f9d29ac81e4fbe83e06cefc9c45c41\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What announcements has he made on the Government\u2019s Roads of National Significance programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2c545844d004f7a8bf689b650f67e74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2c545844d004f7a8bf689b650f67e74\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Well, as I outlined to the House yesterday\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bfe514c6ae9c457b9ad211856c361935\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Chris Bishop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdf78d0676b248b3a5d3feda61cd9cba\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: My apologies, Mr Speaker. As I outlined to the House yesterday, the Government is spending $1.2 billion to move the next tranche of the roads of national significance to the next phase of development, following the board\u2019s approval of the investment cases. This is about a long-term transport infrastructure pipeline to help address our infrastructure deficit, and, of course, the infrastructure that will be built over time supports growth and creates jobs and opportunities for Kiwis. It was a fantastic day on Monday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e90bb03a8c7142e09de42e4ed3836d12\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What did the most recent investment cases say about roads of national significance in the central and upper North Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284349ca0ed1e4d68ab670502a217bca8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I invite members to go away and read the investment cases. To take a couple of examples, the Northland Expressway\u2019s investment case proves the project will be transformational for the North in the same way that the Waikato Expressway has been transformational for the Waikato. The first section is currently in procurement, and, ultimately, if the project is built completely between Auckland and Whang\u0101rei, it will reduce travel times by 38 minutes and, of course, reduce deaths and serious injury\u2014which is something that many members are concerned about\u2014by 66 percent. The East West Link is a very important project that I think some members have been familiar with for quite some time, and the Hamilton Southern Links project will unlock over 17,000 new houses and, it\u2019s estimated, over 7,000 new jobs in this extremely fast-growing area of the upper North Island.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2a4dbb0b0e6480a8759bdffc24601e1\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What did the most recent investment cases say about roads of national significance in the lower North Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220991ba50e25345e3986f3a4dbcd55ed5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It was good to see the New Zealand Transport Agency board endorse investment cases for Petone to Grenada and the Cross Valley Link, as well as the State Highway 1 Wellington improvements. Petone to Grenda is a critical resilience project for the Wellington region. It will take 6,500 vehicles off the most congested section of State Highways 1 and 2 and will reduce travel times between Lower Hutt and Porirua by 23 minutes at peak time. After the previous Government did not advance the case for Let\u2019s Get Wellington Moving, we are committed to delivering meaningful improvements to State Highway 1 through Wellington, including a second Mount Victoria tunnel, a second Terrace tunnel, three-laning Vivian Street\u2014so you can no longer park on State Highway 1\u2014Basin Reserve grade separation, and widening Ruahine Street and Wellington Road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e7b21ceb8242008c63cc45fc91bd56\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What did the most recent investment cases say about the roads of national significance in the South Island?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfea93b6f64e4ddc8ce31cce26b554a5\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s good to see that the New Zealand Transport Agency board endorsed the investment case into the Hope Bypass\u2014which we may have to rename. State Highway 6 is a vital connection for people and goods. It will boost economic growth in Nelson-Tasman and reduce peak journey times through Richmond by at least 10 minutes by 2034. Of course, developments continue on the Belfast to Pegasus and Woodend Bypass road of national significance, with a fast-track application being worked through currently, and, of course, I cannot let the moment go without mentioning James Meager\u2019s favourite project: the second Ashburton Bridge.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002203488aa0190a4c7385f118a0559df975\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022 data-id=\u002253f6901ae60d4fea8f07c07fa31fa27e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f6901ae60d4fea8f07c07fa31fa27e\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Will she be present at education sector strike protests on 23 October; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002208c6e1b1ef0f453f8b5d00a39f93e1de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208c6e1b1ef0f453f8b5d00a39f93e1de\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Tomorrow, I will be in Wellington, and I do understand that all rallies, planned events, and sign-waving events have been called off due to severe weather in Wellington.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cd38af2fcbf4a22ba1e17fef7f36a65\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why have over 40,000 educators been forced to take to the streets just to get their Minister to listen to their concerns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf32c56dfbc740e1a0cb1f0cf54f56c4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they\u2019re not forced to do anything, and I would like to just say that we have been listening to them, which is why we have delivered the biggest investment in learning support in a generation\u2014more than those members did in the last six years combined. That is why we have invested in paying for their teacher registration fees, why we\u2019ve invested in an aspiring principal programme, and why we\u2019ve invested in a teacher bonding scheme, among many, many things we\u2019ve done to back the sector. But we cannot get further progress unless the unions are back at the table, and children need to be in classrooms learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226610ebea39ab4e91ae49833cdbdeeae4\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she realise that educators have no choice but to strike when she has refused to listen to them, despite open letters signed by hundreds of principals and petitions signed by thousands of concerned teachers and wh\u0101nau?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251aa4dd05df44016ad9a96f105378070\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they do have a choice, and here is an example of a union that did have a choice. The Primary Principals\u2019 Collective Bargaining Union, with over 500 members, chose not to strike; chose to be at the bargaining table with the Public Service Commission; chose to be open and transparent; and chose to come to a settlement\u2014a good, fair, and reasonable settlement. That is why more and more educators are joining their union, day by day\u2014because they\u2019re sick of the New Zealand Educational Institute.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221be8243d80504c1cb3b2cb352d59b4b0\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she continue to defer to Sir Brian Roche when the sector is crying out for some engagement with their Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245560e3245df49058f78ac682c969674\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, let me talk to you about engagement with the sector. Today, in fact, I\u2019ve come directly here from Lower Hutt, where I have been at the Curriculum Roadshow with hundreds of principals and leaders and teachers, all in a room to learn about the changes. On Monday, we did the same thing in Christchurch. Fully booked, overflowing\u2014the same thing on Monday. In fact, with all of this engagement that\u2019s happening with the sector, we can\u2019t find a venue big enough to hold them all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b66f9f2e2cf945248633ee17e10d2806\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What message\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae97df1cceb7418f9bfc81e9b43e6247\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait. There are far too many conversations going on, particularly while Ministers are answering questions, as well as an unreasonable amount of barracking across the House, and so we\u2019ll just have total silence for a moment while the question is asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289287f30fb3a4739b6646e39cf5e19a7\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: What message does she think she sends educators when she is willing to prioritise her roadshow with her friends over meeting with those who are striking?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f022993bd854ca7b5da6fcf87a87e6d\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it turns out I\u2019ve got hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of friends, because that\u2019s how many people are turning up to the Curriculum Roadshow to learn about the changes and the reform in education that is going to be raising achievement and closing the education gap in this country\u2014which is more than those guys did in six years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f007dd3f98a5485fac385eca9faddd92\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022012eb59e02b146968b6bbc3e452832cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022012eb59e02b146968b6bbc3e452832cb\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u00221ea48e2dd1c0498d9f141c01d5952da0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221ea48e2dd1c0498d9f141c01d5952da0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261abfeaa9c7c43f79ce990f77a929457\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement in response to our questions yesterday that nurses have safe staffing conditions, when Te Whatu Ora\u2019s own data showed that 50 percent of day shifts were understaffed in 16 districts over 10 months last year in our hospitals?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c92ab2326d024add9ce13e1a9e6d35e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m incredibly proud of what this Government\u2019s doing to improve the working environment for nurses. The fact that in less than two years, we\u2019ve added 2,100 extra nurses into Health New Zealand is a really good thing, and the fact that we\u2019ve made consistent efforts and investments in the healthcare system, with $17 billion in our first Budget; up another 7 percent in our second Budget\u2014that\u2019s all good stuff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3b3b3c4dd4b43f38f19eab4aa1a34c0\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that nurses have safe working conditions, when nurses report that emergency departments are currently, under his Government\u2019s hiring freeze, so short-staffed that some patients who soil themselves are left lying for hours in their own excrement because staff do not have time to help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7872445e7304a0c8a1c96c9fc58208e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in answer to the first part of the question, there is no hiring freeze. But what I\u2019m proud about with this Government is that we\u2019ve got crystal clear on what we expect the healthcare system to deliver for patients, and that is less wait times in emergency departments, improved immunisation rates for under-twos, faster access to first specialist appointments and elective surgeries, and, importantly, we\u2019re making sure that we are delivering for patients and putting them at the heart of everything we do. It\u2019s been good to see some encouraging turn-around. I\u2019m sure all members of this House would thank the Minister of Health for the good work that he\u2019s doing in trying to get those wait-lists run down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022492360de486a47618627167187a6c2b1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is he concerned that neonatal wards across Auckland, Whang\u0101rei, Christchurch, Palmerston North, and Tauranga hospitals were understaffed for more than a third of the shifts in the first half of this year, and, if so, what impacts does he think that these unsafe working conditions have on parents and newborns?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022385bd449a0cc483b983beb3571fbb0c6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m just very proud of the progress that we\u2019ve taken since the departure of a Labour-Greens Government, which is that, clearly, we have put more money in in the history of New Zealand, we have put more workforce into the healthcare system, we have good clarity on targets, and we now expect delivery from Health New Zealand to support patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f31a1f6c27d44e3a47da8ce18d668c2\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister commit to empowering Government negotiators to turn up to the bargaining table equipped with the resources necessary to meet the actual real-world need to fix our education and healthcare systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c22d1c4c8de047c18d6d1a54e2a9ea75\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m proud of what we\u2019re doing on improving on our health and education systems, given the mess that we inherited from the last lot. But I\u2019d just say that we are ready 24/7\u2014ready to go\u2014and so why don\u2019t we actually cancel the strike tomorrow and actually go to the bargaining table tomorrow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022357042f857ca4dc8a1670db7085cb476\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister understand that in order for the bargaining to actually work, the Government needs to empower its negotiators to actually turn up capable of offering the resources necessary to meet the need in our education and healthcare systems?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022071729519686433eb076e02d48fa12f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re ready to go 24/7. The bottom line is that the unions are not. Coming in and talking to a Minister about the State of Palestine, not being prepared to have a conversation about having professional development or teacher-only days in the 12 weeks of school holidays that happen, going in as the Post Primary Teachers\u2019 Association organisation and not taking a new deal out to their members\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e477e95c97174153a2366ca09fa16103\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a failure of your leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258851877c27e4c79ae9738d312bf700c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014rejecting binding arbitration from senior doctors\u2014all of that says it\u2019s politically motivated. They\u2019re not serious. They don\u2019t care about the parents, the kids, or the patients. We do. Get to the bargaining table\u2014simple as.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247d38f866a444dc2b2b4800f57c4d92b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will just point out to the person who was questioning by way of interjection the particular actions of someone else, you were referring to me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002218e64331010e47a58f1d67c7a9c0b026\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014not you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d00c244e842c4c7ba896f38c0717d0ca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which is not at all appropriate, and wildly inaccurate, I might also say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f6ded4101574de8b978a8d51e55b3c3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Justice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u00221506ce00aba24e61ba0716b2342bfb2e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221506ce00aba24e61ba0716b2342bfb2e\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Justice: How is the Government progressing with its plan to restore law and order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022 data-id=\u002249a9f2b910ff478bb494bdfb372daf94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249a9f2b910ff478bb494bdfb372daf94\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E The Government is making good progress on its plan to restore law and order. We\u2019ve committed to restoring consequences for crime and to keep those who cause the most harm in our society off the streets for longer in order to put victims back at the centre of the justice system. I could point to the progress made on our ambitious target to see 20,000 fewer victims of serious violent crime by 2029. In the most recent data released for the 12 months to May, it showed that there were 29,000 fewer victims than when we came into Government, which is 9,000 ahead of our target. That is still too many victims and we\u2019ve got a lot more work to do, but the plan that we have is working.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d9482af11c84fa1af0b3ae033516618\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What updates can he provide on the Government\u2019s recovery of court fines?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279debef5f9274e8c8fc723eb8ad24e64\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our trial of clamping and seizing the cars of people who have not paid their court fines and reparations began in July and it is set to expand after it achieved more than $225,000 in fines and the seizure of 115 vehicles. In a three-month period, bailiffs scanned more than 70,000 number plates and identified 982 with overdue court fines and reparations. Of those, 278 paid on the spot, which was good, and 115 didn\u2019t and had their cars seized. Sixteen of those have already been sold in auction, with another 52 on the way. It\u2019s all about ensuring that people do what they\u2019re supposed to do and that there are real consequences for the crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d671c22d5ec6496d8b4c6046d4628b28\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What other actions is the Government taking to progress its plan to restore law and order? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4daa7217696490abb37457d56e88932\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is part of our quarter four plan. Before the end of the year, we\u2019ll introduce legislation to strengthen consequences for crime in the Crimes Act, including new citizen\u2019s arrest powers and a raft of coalition commitments, as well as to pass legislation to make stalking an illegal and jailable offence. There has been a lot of talk about that over many years, but this Government will do it before the end of the year. The Government is also taking policy decisions on options to provide more tools to address the rise in antisocial behaviour, which continues to be an issue in places like Auckland\u2019s CBD. We want Kiwis and visitors to this country from overseas to feel safe and welcome on Queen Street and in our other town centres. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230af283d39b84a0ab0021ee083028320\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What updates can he provide on the Government\u2019s youth offending reduction target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c093f1c061aa40cd98d05a81ffac08da\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, alongside our target to reduce the number of victims of serious crime, we\u2019ve also got a target led by Minister Chhour to reduce the number of children and young people with serious and persistent offending by 15 percent, which\u2014the good news is\u2014we have achieved as a Government already. There is much more to do, but if you are a victim of crime, and especially if you are victim of violent crime, it doesn\u2019t matter how old the offender is\u2014you and your family still suffer the consequences. That\u2019s why it is so important that we deal more effectively with youth crime, which was out of control a couple of years ago, and good progress is being made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228e6e733facae4d56925007d85c389fea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022 data-id=\u00229d727a43b0794a5eb90ae29e3c56d024\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d727a43b0794a5eb90ae29e3c56d024\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CAn efficient, professional, and politically neutral public service is essential\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022 data-id=\u002203fd1647e99c4391b9c39ee6794acc43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203fd1647e99c4391b9c39ee6794acc43\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Acting Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aec93ba8848e41ff8527d5dcae01944e\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Was she or her office consulted before the Public Service Commission approved taxpayer-funded ads about the strike on Thursday, and were they involved in the content, timing, or authorisation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b95f266c889945e3a696333acd10b55c\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not aware of the details, but I am aware that the decision was the commissioner\u2019s to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7c696fe88214657a41523f5c0f80d6b\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Minister for the Public Service see the ads before they were published?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264aba88e9ddd4f76ad0b4534e812706a\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: I can\u2019t answer that question, sorry, but I\u2019m not aware of whether the Minister was.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf292926a4344d5fbebc1118c4d583eb\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is in good faith to spend public money on messaging that attacks the bargaining position of doctors, nurses, and teachers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766f9123aeee4a5f9f0e323f41248638\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not what the ads did. The ads clarified the information about the offers on the table and were a perfectly valid way of drawing attention to the enormous disruption being caused to families, to children, and to patients by the ongoing strikes. It reiterates the message that if we really want to get a resolution, get around the bargaining table and settle these disputes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8d16a4d871b4bee839e85b2969b3b47\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Does she still stand by her claim that the strike is politically motivated, and, if so, how is her own decision to attack the bargaining position of doctors, nurses, and teachers not itself politically motivated?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d97f56a15d0495aaf157b01ab36b448\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a139e3d8fc05417a847269952103320f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed887bd8d9e7483cae422006e5b4c0ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed887bd8d9e7483cae422006e5b4c0ad\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Police: What recent reports has she seen about organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4930588689a40948cd22c35cf81e0a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4930588689a40948cd22c35cf81e0a1\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Last Friday, the Ministerial Advisory Group on Transnational, Serious and Organised Crime published their final report, Lead Boldly, Act Decisively. The advisory group was tasked with assessing the transnational organised crime landscape in New Zealand and was proposing bold solutions, and I would like to thank them for their hard work. Their report highlights a stark reality, which is that transnational, serious, and organised crime is a major threat to New Zealand\u2019s national security. Our current operational response is strong, but across Government there is scope for a more cohesive approach, supported by the private sector and the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022405b3ef200d74207a974a3d5e86900d8\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: What makes responding to transnational organised crime so challenging?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb9e76266a954fa2a9823f16a660fef6\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: There are many reasons, but I\u2019d like to focus on two. Organised crime groups operate at the pace of technology, while Governments are constrained to operate at the pace of law. Things like encrypted devices and artificial intelligence expand criminal capabilities and allow organised crime groups to connect, and we\u2019re seeing cartels and groups operating and growing at scale. Drugs are the most noted commodity, and they form another major challenge because organised crime is commodity-agnostic. Organised crime will operate wherever money can be made. Whether it is drugs, people-trafficking, money-laundering, financial scams, or child exploitation, they are sophisticated and will always target the weakest link in our defences. However, the ministerial advisory group has been clear that the challenges that transnational organised crime presents are not insurmountable, and it has done an excellent job to recommend solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f1401d8c234af79e804c2c739cd0bd\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: What proposals have the ministerial advisory group made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eddc3cfe93f64dffac40a3b5319afee3\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: I won\u2019t touch on all the group\u2019s recommendations because they are numerous and detailed, but instead I\u2019d like to speak to their focus, which has been on four key themes: the first is creating cohesion and accountability across Government; the second is about targeting cash flows; the third is our role in supporting our Pacific neighbours; and, finally, the advisory group has highlighted the need to strengthen our communities and build resilience to organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4799b74cbc6452eaf2a7c773a52fc84\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Given the wide-ranging recommendations of the ministerial advisory group, are we currently failing in the fight against organised crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222096417741034902ad7d6edd9eb9a87e\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO\u003C/span\u003E: No. Like many countries, we are not winning, but we certainly are not failing. As I stated in my response to the primary question, operational agencies like Police and the Customs Service are doing great work, and we\u2019re seeing the results of that excellence regularly. We\u2019re seizing record levels of drugs. In the last financial year, more than nine tonnes of illicit drugs was stopped from entering New Zealand. We\u2019re also stopping illicit tobacco and child-exploitation material, with increasing frequency and at increasing scale. We know we need to keep lifting our game in response to the threat proposed, and we\u2019re not sitting on our hands. We\u2019ve been focused on finding solutions and improving operational performance, and that focus will continue. The ministerial advisory group report provides a bold vision and presents an opportunity to drive further innovation and effectiveness in how we respond to organised crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9384292a6ee49a9a591803d2d4dd3f3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022 data-id=\u002295e88f3a3dcf456e95c62c2636a58c63\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295e88f3a3dcf456e95c62c2636a58c63\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: Is she confident that firefighters have the appliances and equipment they need to keep them safe on the job; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022 data-id=\u0022622aac6373f34421b562801e69b79403\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022622aac6373f34421b562801e69b79403\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs: Yes, and I\u2019m sure that the Minister would want me to say that she\u2019s incredibly proud of the efforts that New Zealand\u2019s firefighters make. They are some of the most trusted New Zealanders, some of the only New Zealanders who have a job of going into dangerous environments deliberately, and\u2014from my experience of visiting fire stations\u2014absolute backbones and great New Zealanders. We\u2019re confident that they have the equipment in spite of a long legacy of decay. Since the merger of the voluntary and professional fire services in 2017, there has been a long period of time where the rate of replacement of fire engines has not kept up in such a way that it\u2019s kept the average age down. In the last two years, an asset management plan has been put in place for the first time\u2014which is quite a shocking revelation that it\u2019s only been done in the last two years. At the same time, $20 million to $25 million per year is being invested in new fire trucks. Currently, 78 are on order, including five aerial appliances. However, they tend to take 18 to 24 months to be delivered. We are grateful for our firefighters. We are confident that they\u2019re safe, but we acknowledge historical problems that we are resolving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831cd2ddb88d4c36a19771b12643c00a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I would assume that since that was such a comprehensive answer, the rest of it can be quite concise because that was an exceptionally long answer. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022596d3cec7f2140a6831e57799bfb32ff\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: But it was very detailed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f4c7eba46e24b60b5a7fa2e15b18f7e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there was the sort of detail that probably is just a little bit more than might have been expected in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220037ea1685024af98888e79aa0b80c61\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Professional Firefighters Union that \u201CFENZ is driving emergency response into the ground [and] with the failing fire appliances, unsafe stations, refusal to increase staffing,\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd230f4a2764bea91085749ab8c4d10\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Internal affairs, I\u2019m sure that a Labour member will realise that red things aren\u2019t always reliable. However, there is a commitment, as I have mentioned, to upgrade the fire appliance fleet, which is under way, in order to address those concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d690b07ab6245049c5086609fa0b60a\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Brooke van Velden that all parties need to get around the bargaining table; if so, why has Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) failed to front up for bargaining? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205527ad97b4d46219246a8dfb3b6824e\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We do agree with that, and FENZ, through the Public Service Commission, is certainly being represented. Bargaining is available; it\u2019s simply a question of the firefighters turning up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e46f8d446f2a4ccbb7188be74de4616d\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Why should firefighters accept a pay offer that is a pay cut in real terms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e674039e5d414c0f9082126fc99d1350\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The precise negotiations are being handled by the Public Service Commission, but I would make the point that like all Public Service jobs, it is New Zealanders who have to pay for them\u2014overwhelmingly in the case of fire\u2014through levies put on people\u2019s home insurance. It is easy to say in Opposition that you think that everybody should be paid more. However, it is also true that in these negotiations there are two sides that must be represented, and one of those are the New Zealanders who pay the cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e4f8e4c00aa34365b6443a1a48463b03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222566651267b641248520eb8ffde5030b\u0022\u003ELemauga Lydia Sosene\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Professional Firefighters Union correct that the \u201Cjob of a firefighter is now more dangerous than it was in the 1990s.\u201D, and, if so, will she instruct FENZ to make a real, sensible offer to ensure our firefighters are safe at work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022700c29bef9f242d88c57a3596114d6f4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, we don\u2019t have\u2014or at least I\u2019m not aware of, on behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs\u2014a comparison that would validate or invalidate that comparison with the 1990s. What I do know is that FENZ is extremely wary of the dangers that firefighters face. As I mentioned in my initial answer, we recognise that they are the only group of New Zealanders, or one of the few, who are required to go into dangerous environments as part of their work. None the less, it\u2019s not true that money makes up for danger. We must take health and safety as a priority, perhaps above all else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a1908a6b8f942bd895ac3fb1f8c968b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022 data-id=\u0022d45ffc8fdd154b3cb970637bd1a27c42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d45ffc8fdd154b3cb970637bd1a27c42\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Does he agree with the Prime Minister that nurses have safe working conditions; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022 data-id=\u00227ddd800b8bc04537a115bf61df9e7692\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ddd800b8bc04537a115bf61df9e7692\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister. Since coming into office, this Government has added around 2,000 more nurses to the public health system compared to 2023, alongside hundreds of additional doctors. That\u2019s backed by a record additional $16.68 billion investment in health over three Budgets, including initiatives focused on improving workplace safety and reducing wait-lists for patients. Health New Zealand is committed to safe care. That\u2019s why we\u2019re growing the health workforce and holding the system accountable through having clear health targets, so that patients get the care they need when they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226229176624724c659ac686c52acf9074\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Do current staffing levels in our hospitals provide for safe working conditions; if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fc3ea840b194f339d48d210c608c0f8\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, we have continued to increase the number of nurses working in our health system, with around 2,000 more nurses compared to 2023, alongside hundreds of additional doctors. We\u2019ll continue to focus on our front-line service delivery and on reducing wait-lists for patients, and I\u2019d say to the member that one of the biggest risks in our health system is the waiting times for patients and those wait-lists are only going to increase with tomorrow\u2019s strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c089abe1a0a442c09ab1e4eaa69010eb\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: What does he say to Ali, a registered nurse who said, \u201CI am very upset and shocked by the Prime Minister stating we have safe working conditions. Our wards are critically understaffed. Patients are not receiving the care they need and deserve.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a829256274b448d5b65699ef40072d41\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019d say to that individual that this Government is continuing to invest in having more nursing staff in our hospitals. We have around 2,000 more nurses in the public health system compared to the Labour-Greens Government, which we inherited the challenges of our health system from. We are focused on front-line service delivery, while they were focused on restructuring bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb692613effa486d8ecfb370ea7b203e\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: nurses across the country who are telling us that they do not have safe working conditions, or the Prime Minister, who has said that nurses have safe working conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214e05ce068147149b36e4b8661a5d37\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the facts speak for themselves, and the facts are that there are more nurses working at Health New Zealand today than under the Labour-Greens coalition, which was more focused on restructuring our health system during a pandemic. We\u2019re focused on health delivery; they were focused on rearranging bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b20870bfe2a24dcb933f24d3c42a95d2\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he not recognising that nurses are telling us across the country that they\u2019re not experiencing safe working conditions as a result of current understaffing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b5f768a6036e47bd9f5aad64b1c38c69\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, there\u2019s a range of things that this Government is doing to invest in our nursing workforce and to invest in delivery for patients, and under this Government, the number of nurses working at Health New Zealand has increased. They are providing quality care and they do an incredible job on behalf of our patients. Quality safety measures are stable or have been improving over the past five years, we\u2019re investing in regular training for staff, we\u2019re investing in security in our emergency departments, we\u2019re continuing to invest in our nursing workforce and in our medical workforces, and we\u2019ve also put health targets in place which show that we are starting to see progress after the last Government allowed wait-lists to balloon whilst they fiddled with the bureaucracy. We\u2019re focused on patients; they\u2019re focused on bureaucracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224743d6c742544b00b8cf3aedd2c49011\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Mental Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022edc8dc867758411cbf2249fa55cd7477\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edc8dc867758411cbf2249fa55cd7477\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Mental Health: What recent announcements has he made on rolling out new mental health services in emergency departments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc68fca26fff4745be415b78b87b9436\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc68fca26fff4745be415b78b87b9436\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Our mental health plan is focused on delivering results: faster access to support, more front-line workers, and a better crisis response. Recently, I announced the introduction of peer support workers in the North Shore emergency department, completing the roll-out of the service across all three major Auckland hospitals alongside Dunedin, Christchurch, Wellington, and Waikato hospitals. For anyone in mental health crisis, arriving at a busy emergency department can be overwhelming. Having a peer support specialist who understands what they\u2019re going through can make a real difference. No matter where you live, this Government is committed to ensuring that timely support is there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231494bc25f7940248ff39ea6bcc1faaa\u0022\u003EDr Carlos Cheung\u003C/span\u003E: Why are peer support workers part of Government plans to improve crisis response in mental health?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022925f78e8e59a4a729a4fa26262a47b2a\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve always been open to saying that one of the biggest barriers to timely mental health support in New Zealand is having too many workforce vacancies. Peer support specialists are available to listen, share their experience, and provide timely support. They can also link people to community mental health services, resulting in better outcomes once they leave hospital. Whether your child, a friend, or a family member is reaching out for support, we\u2019re committed to ensuring support is there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202f3f9f68ea348ab97730e6c724fc8ff\u0022\u003EDr Carlos Cheung\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has the Minister received about the impact of peer support workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4b137e8ba0e4efaadba69c6bb699925\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: One of my top priorities is strengthening prevention and early intervention. The feedback from hospitals with peer support workers has been very positive. A peer support worker in Wellington told me how surreal it was to be helping others in the same emergency department that they came through in crisis a few years earlier. In Dunedin, a former patient told me that on the worst day of her life, this is exactly the type of service she wishes she had when she was struggling. To deliver a better crisis response, we want to ensure there is someone to call, someone to respond, and somewhere to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231f13e0f00524ee388a8de902987859c\u0022\u003EDr Carlos Cheung\u003C/span\u003E: Where else are peer support workers being used to improve mental health services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ab82333445e48a0989a58d0e2263527\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Our mental health plan is working. We are delivering reduced wait times and increasing the workforce. Since coming into Government, the peer support lived-experience workforce has grown by almost 100 percent. We are rolling out peer support workers not only in emergency departments but also in crisis recovery cafes and eating disorder services, and also to help young people with fetal alcohol spectrum disorder. When someone takes the step of reaching out for support, workforce should never be a barrier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249273f4733774102806938c164255e2c\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister investigate the mental health crisis in Thames following a serious mental health incident that was brought to his attention by a local mental health rangatira in Hauraki earlier this Monday?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220cab659e696042bdb53715c9f3bafc05\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I think it\u2019s always important that we respond to people who lay some serious concerns about the mental health system. As the mental health Minister, how I hold myself to account\u2014and this Government does\u2014is setting New Zealand\u2019s first mental health targets. For the first time in New Zealand, we can use the data to go into communities around New Zealand and understand the level of access to that timely support. That will get rid of the postcode lottery for mental health in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d9b529755d2b4a78a373977edaec4209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c128b899d1fe42b49b79165de79b5e5a\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: How will his new announcements on mental health services address the lack of coordination and unwillingness of public services and agencies in Hauraki to intervene in serious incidents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f2147757d4c4e97872778e83fc23cde\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that member raises a significant point. New Zealanders\u2019 experience traditionally of the mental health system is one of fragmentation and, actually, it takes too long to be seen. That\u2019s why the function of this Government is to join up the mental health system and provide faster access to support. That is why we are now able to go back to the 20 health districts, understand the performance of each of those areas, and ensure they deliver a level of service that Kiwis should expect in mental health: one week for primary mental health and addiction support; three weeks for specialist mental health and addiction support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f744f51cf2b9457b9c967b2b02fb2e87\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10 to Minister\u2014Amended Answer\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8c52fcf4de8462c9d8ce513e6d2f1b2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8c52fcf4de8462c9d8ce513e6d2f1b2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer to a question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5bd6f2d6c694c31b81f05a9aea6ea59\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dff85118fea44aa9080d9b4e9860203\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In my answer to question No. 10, I suggested that the Public Service Commission was negotiating on behalf of Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ). That is, in fact, not true. FENZ is negotiating on behalf of FENZ. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022fad573ca510d4322994ec8b113476664\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fad573ca510d4322994ec8b113476664\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that clarification. As members leave the House over the next 30 seconds, please do so quickly, quietly, and without any discussions in the aisles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022baaf4da025a4490e9bf812b4b0d2b66f\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224046061768e2493fbfcc0522bcbbda95\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022 data-id=\u0022d14e13c43a56407d8463958931712dfa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d14e13c43a56407d8463958931712dfa\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003ETwo years into the term of this Government, it is now abundantly clear that all they have to offer New Zealanders is blame, excuses, and anger. Haven\u2019t we seen that this week\u2014how angry they have looked this week? An opportunity comes along every day for the Government to tell New Zealanders how things are getting better, how they are improving the conditions in this country, and all this Government could do this week was look angry and talk about the Opposition. I can tell you from past experience: when the Government spends its whole week talking about the Opposition, it\u2019s a sure sign that things are in trouble on the other side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders are looking to this Government for a sense that things will get better; that New Zealand can be a place where our kids want to stay, where they see a future, and where opportunities abound; where, if you work hard, if you play by the rules, if you take pride in your work, you\u2019ll see the rewards that flow from that hard work; that you\u2019ll have a sense of security; that you\u2019ll be able to make life better for yourself and for your families; that you\u2019ll be able to access healthcare when you need it; that you\u2019ll have a place that you can call home, where you can be secure and you can be part of a community; and, most importantly of all, where you have hope for a better future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders elected this Government on the basis that they thought they had a plan for the future. It is now abundantly clear they don\u2019t have a plan now, and they never had one\u2014because we can see that, under this Government, for two years, things have been going backwards. Our economy has been shrinking. Jobs have been disappearing. Unemployment is increasing. The number of people lining up for a jobseeker benefit continues to climb. The cost of living, far from being fixed, continues to go up. Homelessness is increasing; more people living rough on the streets. Kids living in poverty\u2014that number is going up, as well. The number of businesses going broke continues to climb. New Zealanders are voting with their feet; record numbers of New Zealanders are simply giving up and leaving the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EAs a parent of young New Zealanders, this is something that I spend a lot of time thinking about. When I speak to other parents outside the school gate or at kids\u2019 birthday parties, one of the questions that is front of mind for all of them is: when our kids reach the age when they enter into the workforce, are they going to stay? When they go off and do their OE, are they going to come back? Because we all know far too many examples of people who are leaving\u2014young New Zealanders, in particular; talented, bright, the future of our country, giving up and leaving with no intention of coming back. Instead of giving those young New Zealanders hope, we have a Government that describes New Zealand as \u201Cwet, whiny and miserable\u201D, that calls New Zealanders \u201Cbottom-feeders\u201D, and that says that our emerging businesses\u2014those who are creating the jobs of the future\u2014are \u201CC-listers\u201D and unworthy of Government support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t have to be this way. We can have a future that is made in New Zealand, by New Zealanders, for New Zealanders. We can back ourselves. We can invest in ourselves. While this Government offers asset sales, we on this side of the House say we should be investing in assets. We should be investing in a better future for New Zealanders. While that Government over there wants to sell off what\u2019s left, we want to leave a better legacy for the next generation of New Zealanders. While they wait for foreign billionaires to come and save us, we say we should be backing ourselves. We should be backing Kiwi businesses to create jobs, to keep talented New Zealanders in this country, and to create the future that New Zealanders deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EA future fund that uses our existing asset base to grow opportunities and grow jobs for New Zealand\u2014a Government that backs innovation here in New Zealand is what the Labour Party stands for. The Game Development Sector Rebate that\u2019s created jobs, that\u2019s seen the gaming development sector grow by nearly 80 percent during the 2\u00BD years that that rebate has been in place\u2014they want it expanded. This Government said no. We say yes on this side of the House, because we want to back our innovators. We want to back those people who go to work every day to create jobs and create opportunity. Where that Government says no, no, no, when they offer cut, cut, cut, we say yes, yes, yes, and we will invest, invest, invest in the future of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022 data-id=\u002235bee4b15bd0495d95966b9a9a3a65c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002235bee4b15bd0495d95966b9a9a3a65c0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Two years\u201414 October marked two years. What\u2019s the job of the Opposition? To come up with policies\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022135e503a21764b5a8de067b316ab0e8e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. Take your seat. If you\u2019re leaving the House, leave quietly. The Hon Louise Upston, start again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235c32801196747ce9ef70c62ca3f6bf3\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: One job\u2014they\u2019ve got one job: come up with some policies to actually back up their words. They\u2019ve got lots of words, but nothing to back it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EThere was a bit of anticipation. After the two-year mark, what were New Zealanders waiting for? They were waiting for some policy\u2014waiting for some policy. What did we get? They were so patient, waiting for a policy, waiting for a plan, waiting for something from the Opposition. What did we get?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, what we heard on Monday took us right back to the horror show of October 2023, where New Zealanders voted out a Government who was taxing more, spending more, and who was reckless with their tax money. What did they come up with? Well, actually, nobody seems to know what they were actually talking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EEleven pages; no detail. I think there was one figure. Oh, and there was a photo of Chris Hipkins\u2014that\u2019s meant to fill in the blanks of the detail of this future fund. They don\u2019t even understand how Temasek works: when you buy assets, you then sell assets for ones that have better returns. That\u2019s basic economics, basic trading, basic investment. Unfortunately, New Zealanders would have been really disappointed by\u2014well, actually, probably not surprised, really, in terms of the stupid, illiterate nonsense that we got served up. But don\u2019t take it from my words. It was described as a flop; vague; lacking in any meaningful costings, asset listings, or clarity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EWhat we heard was the Leader of the Opposition saying one thing; the finance spokesperson saying something else. I mean, aren\u2019t they meant to be hand in glove? Aren\u2019t they meant to be in alignment? But we saw none of that\u2014again\u2014which is an absolute disaster for the Labour Party, and it\u2019s high time that they actually recognised that when you\u2019re going to announce a policy, you should have the detail, you should have your two lead people who are spokespersons for it who actually understand and are on the same page.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EWhat did we see? Less than 24 hours later, another major policy announcement that the leader didn\u2019t even know about. How was that look\u2014how was that look\u2014of absolute shock and horror about a policy that had been announced earlier in the day that he didn\u2019t seem to know anything about? When you think about what\u2019s happening over the other side two years in, I think they\u2019re living their own horror show over there. Their financial and economic credibility continues to be in the grave, and, unfortunately, it\u2019s a pattern. We see policy roll-outs that no one\u2019s been briefed on, half-baked economic proposals, and they live in a fantasy land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders deserve better than that\u2014they deserve better than that. That is why our side of the Chamber is absolutely focused on delivering for them. If you just think this week: roads of national significance. We\u2019ve already got a programme of roads that are being rolled out as we speak, and those that were announced by Chris Bishop this week show the next pipeline of significant roads of national significance that are game-changers for our cities, for our regions, and for our communities. Yes, they create jobs, but, yes, they provide really critical infrastructure. Actually, on this side of the House, when we plan infrastructure, we\u2019ve actually got a plan for how we\u2019re paying for that project; unlike the economically illiterate on the other side of the Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EWe heard earlier from the Minister of Justice about the progress we\u2019re making on violent crime reduction, aimed at ensuring that there are 20,000 fewer victims of crime. And on youth offending, we\u2019re also well on track with our targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EJust this week, we\u2019ve introduced two more non-financial sanctions for those on welfare, and it\u2019s very much focused on job seekers who are not playing their part. We want to see a welfare system that is far more active and responsive and where people are preparing and doing their bit. It\u2019s great to see the number of people exiting the jobseeker benefit for employment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003EIf we look at inflation: inflation has stayed within the band of 1 percent to 3 percent. From a high of 7.3 percent\u2014eight official cash rate drops. That is incredibly significant. That comes from fiscal discipline. It comes from understanding economic levers. It comes from understanding that you have to reduce wasteful spending and focus on getting outcomes and results. In terms of economic growth, we are seeing progress in tourism, in dairy, in red meat, and in gaming. Our side of the House is delivering. We\u2019re not a horror show, like the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022660007c760634ba791165ca533175124\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next member, there was quite a bit of ongoing commentary during that last speech. I have noticed voices like that over question time and other days, as well. I didn\u2019t see where it was coming from because there was a glass that was obscuring that head from which it was emitting. But, with fewer people in the House, it\u2019s now clear where it was coming from. I suggest it should just stop.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022 data-id=\u0022efc5f68d277d4dbf89d6e27bb1a85808\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efc5f68d277d4dbf89d6e27bb1a85808\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E Well, it\u2019s finally happened: Labour have announced a policy. And I have to disagree somewhat with my National colleague, because we do think it has some merit. We do believe in New Zealand ownership of our assets. Our main issue is it\u2019s one of our policies, one that the Rt Hon Winston Peters announced some 14 months ago at our 2024 convention. They\u2019re like a cheap tribute band. I see them more as Cliff Richard and the Shadows, and I see us as a bit more like The Rolling Stones. It\u2019s so lacking in originality in terms of a policy platform, and after two years of policy seances, that\u2019s the best they could come up with: a pale, cheap rip-off of our $100 billion sovereign wealth fund, announced some 14 months ago. But I will give it something; at least Chris Hipkins knew that this policy was being announced. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003ELook, it is a tepid toe in the water; it is lacking the grunt of the New Zealand First original. It is not big, it is not transformational, and it is not nation building like the policies we\u2019ll be taking to the election. New Zealand First has a track record: the fast-track legislation that we proposed and brought in through this coalition agreement. We\u2019d been proponents of the fast track and proponents of the regional infrastructure fund, and its predecessor, the provincial growth fund. We\u2019d been champions, through Hon Shane Jones, of mining, aquaculture, and energy, through the supercritical geothermal\u2014big, nation-building things; jobs, growth in our regions. My favourite is the efforts we\u2019re putting in to reviving the New Zealand wool industry. Wool is coming back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EWe are witnessing the revival of this great fibre. We have a massive heritage in wool, and New Zealand has been literally built off the sheep\u2019s back. The turn-around is on: strong wool\u2014I should have told the Prime Minister this; he could have quoted it earlier\u2014up 32 percent this year; fine wool: up 34 percent; and mid-micron wool up 41 percent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003ENine-year highs, most of that in the last few weeks; a surge in demand for New Zealand wool, and a strong tailwind in a return to natural fibres. It\u2019s biodegradable, it\u2019s flame retardant, it\u2019s moisture absorbent, it\u2019s anti-allergenic, it\u2019s carbon negative. There are no microplastics and it doesn\u2019t need treating with toxic Per- and polyfluoroalkyl substances (PFAS)\u2014for ever chemicals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221108739d951b4d4a936ef4dca5c45ead\u0022\u003EHon Todd McClay\u003C/span\u003E: Tastes good. Oh, wait.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4f8f48381d42b19e9aadbe2db0d2f4\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Todd McClay wants to eat it, it\u2019s that good. It\u2019s a miracle fibre with which synthetics can\u2019t compete. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThis revival hasn\u2019t happened by accident. There has been strong leadership from the Government, and the sector is rallying; it is uniting. This famously disparate industry is coming together. We are consulting with farmers on a wool alliance, with some groups aligned with wool coming together for the promotion, advocacy, skills development, and R\u0026amp;D\u2014an industry-good body which we haven\u2019t seen for over a decade and a half. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThe Government has put its money where its mouth is: New Zealand First and National in a coalition agreement to put wool back into Government buildings. Yes, that drives demand, but it\u2019s an important market signal and one that has been picked up not just domestically but internationally. If we\u2019re not prepared to use wool in our own buildings, how can we ask anyone else? We\u2019ve invested in innovation, developing higher-value end uses. It will not only be more carpets and insulation, it\u2019ll be air filtration; sanitary, medicinal products; breaking into component parts, pigments, particles, powders; bio-agents for dyes; and nutraceuticals. That\u2019s transformation; that\u2019s a $100-a-kilo opportunity. We\u2019re not only changing the game, we\u2019re moving on to a whole new playing field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re shortening supply chains and strengthening links between global suppliers and our growers, right here in rural New Zealand. It gets even better: investment is coming to onshore manufacturing, not just exporting the raw materials, adding value for New Zealand in New Zealand and creating jobs in our regions. I\u2019m determined that wool will be one of the great comeback stories of New Zealand agriculture, adding to its storied heritage, restoring pride for our growers and wool harvesters, and much needed profitability, back for our hard-working hill country farmers. Our sector is determined to play our part and make our contribution to doubling New Zealand\u2019s exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2ab0338e6df458b8dc054d1f3c40a94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2ab0338e6df458b8dc054d1f3c40a94\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker\u2014and that is how you do a general debate speech when you are in Government: you talk about the policies that you are undertaking; you talk about the sectors you are backing; and you also talk about all the other ideas that you actually back, as well, such as the Labour Party\u2019s future fund. To the member\u2019s point: you can say that Labour copied you\u2014however, the problem is, I couldn\u2019t find any detail on your particular policy to be able to copy. Nevertheless, I absolutely applaud your support for the Labour Party future fund and look forward to working with you on improving the future fund for the benefit of all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003EI just want to take a moment to acknowledge the passing of my father-in-law, Bill Harris Edmonds. Bill Harris Edmonds, my father-in-law, passed away in the last September recess. He was my father-in-law for 27 years; he was the grandfather of 25 mokopuna, and so I want to say ia manuia lau malaga, Papa. You\u2019re an amazing man, and we love you for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003EThe important reason I wanted to talk about Bill is because his story is a very Kiwi story. Their family owned a family farm in Kaikohe, in the regions; his parents joined a number of M\u0101ori who left the regions and came to the city\u2014the urban migration\u2014because there were jobs in the city post - World War II. His parents came to Auckland City to take up jobs. Bill and his beautiful wife, Memory, established their family in South Auckland, and it was from those roots that their family was able to keep going back to their papa k\u0101inga in Kaikohe, to be able to support the farm up there, but also to be able to work here. It was a generational decision; it was a decision about what other decisions we need to make today as parents to enable our children to have better opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, that story is no longer possible. We can\u2019t have the regional shifts to the urban areas\u2014we can\u2019t have that any more, because what\u2019s happening now is that there are no more opportunities, both in the cities and rurally. We look at all the different factories across our country that have had to close down quite recently\u2014in Tokoroa, in Ruapehu, in all the different regional areas. Migration to urban areas is no longer possible; with high unemployment in the different city areas, people are going offshore. Two hundred people every day\u2014a plane load every day\u2014are now going offshore because they can no longer find the opportunities for them, for their children, and for their families. That\u2019s why\u2014a plane load a day!\u2014we should never ever take for granted how many people that is per day, with record migration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003EThe problem for me is that this Government has no plan for that, to stem that brain-drain. The fact that we are losing almost the size of Napier City in the last year should be concerning every single one of those Government backbenchers, because Kiwis vote with their feet. If they\u2019re not offshore, they\u2019ll be here, and if they can\u2019t see a future for their children, for their families, for their friends\u2014bye-bye. That\u2019s exactly what these Kiwis across the country are having to do right now, and it\u2019s because this Government\u2019s plan of \u201Cgrowth, growth, growth\u201D, well, it\u2019s not growing for them. The only thing that seems to be growing is growing unemployment, growing joblessness. There\u2019s going to be growing migration, growing business liquidations. Every single time the public hears the phrase, \u201CWe\u2019re going to grow the country.\u201D\u2014\u201CGrow it for who?\u201D, Kiwis are asking. Because right now, time and time again, people are saying, \u201CWe can\u2019t afford bread.\u201D, \u201CWe can\u2019t afford milk.\u201D, \u201CWe can\u2019t afford cheese.\u201D, \u201CWe can\u2019t afford mince.\u201D That\u2019s not the Kiwi society that our children should be growing up in and that future generations should be growing up in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003ELabour has a plan for that\u2014Labour has a plan. In the same way that Minister Bishop kept referencing the Super Fund, it is the same way that those decisions that Sir Michael Cullen thought about\u2014about the future generational costs. That is why Labour is proposing to set up a future fund\u2014a future fund that backs Kiwis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e11ebe844254fe0ba934c1c425bb049\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s going in it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022996daadabbaa4ca49b763bc3146613a3\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that backs the investment. Tim Costley from K\u0101piti asks, \u201CWhat\u2019s going in it?\u201D Read the plan. Just read it for yourselves. Maybe you should copy it. Maybe you should copy it so you actually have a plan other than house prices rising and growing record migration to Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003ELabour wants to back New Zealand to make a New Zealand for ourselves, because we know we have the skills and talent; we know we have the ideas. What they lack is backing, and Labour is going to back Kiwi businesses to help grow our country and make sure our children stay onshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a543379505f64b8cb661822638408726\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a543379505f64b8cb661822638408726\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E The best speech today in this debate, far and away, so far\u2014with the exception, probably, of Louise Upston\u2019s, and let\u2019s see, perhaps mine\u2014was Mark Patterson\u2019s. Because not only did he say that, actually, the idea that the Labour leader remembered to talk about this week was that of New Zealand First; he got them to say that there was no detail in the New Zealand First policy, which isn\u2019t true. This just goes to show that when Chris Hipkins stood up there to use someone else\u2019s homework, he didn\u2019t read to the end of the document. Because if he would have, he would have been able to answer the very, very many questions that were asked of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard other speakers in the debate say that when you give a speech in this and you\u2019re in Government, you should be talking about what you\u2019ve been doing. Well, I\u2019ve done a quick scan of the newspapers and their reaction to Chris Hipkins, after two years, coming up with something that isn\u2019t a policy, it isn\u2019t a plan\u2014it\u2019s a sound bite with no detail at all that says to New Zealanders, \u201CIf we chuck the word \u2018future\u2019 in it, hopefully you\u2019ll think we have an idea for the future.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EActually, here\u2019s a list for you. On the economy: in the last two years, this Government has reduced inflation, got it down from record levels to one now that businesses have confidence to invest. Finally, New Zealanders understand the harm that\u2019s done when a Government borrows money, taxes money, and spends it on things that are not productive. We\u2019ve got interest rates down: that is saving money for every single household in New Zealand that has a mortgage, and businesses that actually have debt run up because that Labour Government kept us in lockdown far too long compared to most countries in the world, and businesses are failing. We\u2019ve stopped the wasteful spending. By comparison, the headline says, \u201CLabour\u2019s future fund promises everything\u2014and nothing\u201D and \u201CLabour\u2019s Future Fund: a shaky policy debut\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EIn education: we\u2019ve improved student achievement already, something that they should have been doing: one hour reading, writing, and maths every single day for students in New Zealand, with record investment in school buildings that will help students learn\u2014not just the sound bite\u2014and what did we see from the media about Chris Hipkins\u2019 announcement of something in the future he called a fund: \u201C \u2018Drivel\u2019 vs \u2018lazy\u2019 \u201D and \u201CFuture Fund or future flop?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EIn trade and export: two trade deals done already\u2014the EU deal is in place much sooner than we were told was going to be the case. And we have seen a trade negotiation start with India, when that Government, Labour, said it was not a priority for them: $12 billion of extra exports. And what do we say here in the media: \u201Chits the buzzwords, but the rationale is hard to follow\u201D. And, actually, this is one of my favourites: \u201CChris Hipkins\u2019 policy, after two years, given 3 out of 10 by the business community\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EOn law and order: we\u2019ve banned gangs wearing patches and they\u2019ve stopped doing it\u2014police have record efforts upon the gangs. We have reduced ram raids from records high all over the country, when New Zealanders were just expecting when they got out of bed there would be another ram raid in their community to, now, a level so low that we hardly hear about them. We\u2019ve got on top of violent crime\u2014and let me see, another one. Here\u2019s the best one: \u201CWhat, exactly, will Labour\u2019s new Future Fund achieve?\u201D\u2014with the biggest question mark I\u2019ve seen in a newspaper. And here\u2019s one from this morning: \u201CAfter two years of waiting for some policy, Chris Hipkins sitting there quietly saying the policies are coming, we\u2019ve been doing our work.\u201D I think Labour knows how bad this policy idea is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EFinal one, because Mark Patterson was talking about our farmers. You know, actually, farmers are the backbone of this country and of the economy. Anybody who doesn\u2019t know that really just has to understand that 80 percent of all our goods exports that go overseas come from the primary sector. When Mark Patterson and I sat down before the Government was formed to talk about how to support farmers and wool, he said that he wanted to take the responsibility on. And we have started to see confidence in wool farmers, the use of wool going up, and the price starting to go up, because we back farmers. That\u2019s what you do in Government. You don\u2019t come up with a slogan and put the word \u201Cfuture\u201D in it. Mark Patterson and I didn\u2019t say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to have a \u2018future fund\u2019 for farmers who grow wool.\u201D We said, \u201CWe\u2019re going to put our heads down and work very, very hard.\u201D He\u2019s done that all over New Zealand, and he is delivering for those farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ce5d6f3f866144588f37081503d1739f\u0022\u003EOne small word of advice to Mr Hipkins, who doesn\u2019t take advice well: read to the end of the policy. If you\u2019re going to steal it from somebody else, swot on all the things and when you get asked a question by the media and the first time you can\u2019t answer it, go and get the answers. Don\u2019t keep saying \u201CI will tell you later.\u201D, because later is far too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022 data-id=\u00223ed956a9e3134dc19a51d979cfc227b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ed956a9e3134dc19a51d979cfc227b1\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kia ora. I wanted to reflect on the birth of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Recently, having seen the Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) (Customary Marine Title) Amendment Bill and what it was, to crossing the floor\u2014crossing the floor was as much about crossing a line that had been drawn against our people for generations\u2014a line that marginalised M\u0101ori, that kept the margins of power and Te Tiriti in the footnotes in the history of this place. And, actually, it was a line that was drawn when Labour forgot about Te Tiriti o Waitangi, hap\u016B, and iwi who never surrendered their foreshore and seabed. This isn\u2019t a dig at Labour; this is actually a differentiation of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the genesis of who we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EOur starting point and centre point have always been about Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and our kaupapa deeply entrenched in the belief of constitutional transformation. Our whole purpose, I guess, has been about making sure that we are here to make people uncomfortable, and we will never accept the status quo and we will bring issues to the front. Sometimes, people prefer silence on some of those issues, whether it be about inequity and inequality, racism, Treaty breaches, and colonisation in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EI mean, we won\u2019t whisper about the political environment that we are in today. That has been shaped by right-wing influence, with billionaires at these think tanks and media owned by those who fear M\u0101ori self-determination, those donors who fund the outrage machines that attack M\u0101ori politicians for daring to believe and promote an Aotearoa hou. In fact, I think without Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori this Parliament would risk slipping back into a comfort where Te Tiriti is a decoration, and justice of Te Tiriti is delayed for generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EI want to talk about an environment where every M\u0101ori voice that challenges the colonial construct today becomes a target of the same hands that profit from the inequality that is shaping the public opinion of M\u0101ori, whether that be through the news and whether it be through any other media. The opinions that we see on M\u0101ori are extremely hypocritical. What we have heard\u2014and I\u2019m going to say this straight up for everyone to hear\u2014is that nothing that is going on in Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is as rotten as some of the things that we have gone and seen in other parties. We have seen ex-presidents with paedophilia convictions. We have seen the rolling of four party leaders in six months. We have seen MPs resigning for sexting, and another stood down for being investigated for past misconduct with fake online profiles. And dare I mention Jami-Lee Ross?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EThe biggest hypocrisy that we see going on in Aotearoa is its inability to confront its own honesty. Then, yesterday, we saw the biggest land grab be heightened by another grab from this Government that has taken us back 20 years. In fact, what we want to do is acknowledge the fact that people in Aotearoa are leaving in droves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EI want talk about our solutions, because one of the things we never hear from any party in this place is the fact and the size of the tax evasion that goes on in Aotearoa. In fact, the sad part of it is that only 1 percent is actually welfare fraud, $80 million. We have a $629.4 billion fraud that goes on in this country, and this country does nothing about it. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori intends to. In fact, what we believe 2026 will be is the tightening of and the changing of the guard\u2014thank goodness\u2014and the reclaiming of a pen to reshape the laws that this country needs to have. We need to redistribute wealth\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022080b0e27457f46a08c51dd3057b51c57\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Uh, oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b69bf48044249a0b26d57b448ba0703\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014once and for all. Well, uh, oh to some of the things that we\u2019ve seen come out of this, because people will be coming home and not leaving in droves like we see. The GDP will not be shrunk like we see this Government doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EWe need to tax the wealthy. We need to tax those who are making all the biggest noises with the mass homeownership. We need to tax ghost houses. We need to tax and pursue tax evasion. We need to then be able to redistribute that money. In our estimation, that will help make sure that we can look after all New Zealanders in this country, because right now, the way that it\u2019s going, it is only a nation and a Government that looks after the super elite. We want to be able to confront and make this a country where every New Zealander gets looked after and gets seen and gets heard and we leave no one behind, which is what we see this Government has been doing shamelessly\u2014shamelessly. When we sit there, we can actually have a country where we bring people into it and they like who we are; they actually like tangata whenua. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EThat is who Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is. That is what we will intend to do when we get that pen and we reshape it and we make sure that we never have the shame of the nation that has turned its back on its own rangatahi, its 18- to 19-year-olds. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022 data-id=\u0022db86e576512f43f8972d59ed716766c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db86e576512f43f8972d59ed716766c5\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Yesterday, the Leader of the Opposition was caught eyes wide and eyebrows raised when asked about what his health spokesperson had unveiled in a New Zealand Doctor article: a new policy on GP fees and funding. It was a moment of genuine surprise caught on camera, destined for memes, and yet the policy landed with a bit of a thud. There was a polite wait and see from most, but not from me\u2014oh no, not from me. My response is neither muted nor polite, because what we saw wasn\u2019t bold or visionary; it was recycled, it was uninspired, it was lazy, and, worst of all, it merely reflected what is actually happening already. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EIf people thought that the future fund was bad, this is even worse. Maybe they\u2019re saving up their best stuff for next year, for the election. But if that was an appetiser, then I\u2019m not hungry for any more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EThis wasn\u2019t the first time that Labour has made promises about GP fees. In 2017, they pledged to reduce fees and review funding, but once in Government, that promise vanished. What followed were working groups, consultations, and, ultimately, abandonment. Instead of fixing GP funding, they chose to upend the entire health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EI remember those years vividly. I was working as a GP in the system. I saw the confusion, the disruption, the chaos, the reports written, and then recommendations made and ignored. The result was a textbook example of how not to do change management. They couldn\u2019t organise a bun fight in a bakery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EIn 2022, Minister Little quietly commissioned a Sapere report on health funding. It revealed what many of us already knew: general practice had been underfunded for decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2f6c01f155b4a839799f54929f06d78\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Decades. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022203de5f824574fad952d550057ee26dc\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Decades. The report called for a significant uplift of up to 231 percent for very low-cost access practices. It also recommended reforming the capitation formula for funding to reflect age, ethnicity, morbidity, and gender. Sound familiar? Yes, well, that\u2019s because the Moodie report commissioned by the previous National Government in 2015 had proposed exactly the same. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003ELabour had the evidence and they had the recommendations, but they failed to act. Now, under National, we are delivering. A new capitation model will be in place by July 2026. We\u2019ve implemented the largest increase to baseline funding since capitation began. We\u2019re not just talking; we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve sat on the PHO Services Agreement Amendment Protocol forum, or PSAAP. I\u2019ve seen how GP fees are set\u2014effectively, by an independent economist. The annual statement of reasonable fee increases, or ASFRI process, is apolitical. It\u2019s often retrospective. It\u2019s not perfect. It misses major cost shifts like nurse pay parity, but getting an annual recommendation from Sapere is basically what Dr Verrall called for in her opinion piece\u2014exactly what is already happening now through the ASFRI at PSAAP. What Labour is proposing isn\u2019t new; it\u2019s how the system already works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281b0232d568d449dbb76a646b2ceaf80\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Why does GenPro like it so much, then?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223186e2b361c4089ad338b88f6306720\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they like it because you\u2019re saying that you might hold yourselves to it, which is never going to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EWhat Labour proposes isn\u2019t new; it\u2019s just not anything interesting, and yet Dr Verrall\u2019s article presents it as a fresh idea. It\u2019s painful to read. It\u2019s like watching someone reinvent the wheel, only they\u2019ve made it square. Obligating the Government to fund externally recommended levels while capping fees is fiscally risky. Mr Hipkins has called the policy \u201Cminor\u201D. That\u2019s only true if they don\u2019t commit to any of it, which they won\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s not just about money; it\u2019s about people. Our Government is also increasing the funding for GP trainees so that they\u2019re on a par with other specialist trainees and have their fees and exam costs funded for the duration of their training. We\u2019ve increased the number of medical school places, and we\u2019re also very excited to be starting building work on a new medical school that will focus on rural and community health. This is badly needed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t just about policy. It\u2019s about trust, it\u2019s about competence, and it\u2019s about valuing our GPs\u2014the backbone of our health system. I say to this House and to every New Zealander listening: reject recycled ideas, reject superficial fixes, and demand better. Let us be bold. Let us be principled. Let us be relentless in our pursuit of a health system that works for everyone, because when we get primary care right, we build the foundation for a healthier, stronger New Zealand. Together, let\u2019s deliver the change our communities deserve. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022 data-id=\u0022f45a84f5ac2e403b98818d904cfbd860\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f45a84f5ac2e403b98818d904cfbd860\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, I want to talk about online harm and the digital landscape facing our young people. There are genuine concerns around online safety and rising issues around cyber-bullying, online exploitation, AI chatbots, AI girlfriends\u2014all of these types of technology that our young people are using\u2014and they leave people feeling quite powerless at times. We know that they are causing harm out there. We know that our young people are having AI chatbot girlfriends and being told, potentially, to kill themselves. There is serious, serious harm. I hear from parents, principals, and teachers all the time about their concerns. They struggle with their children in this fast-paced world that we\u2019re growing. I think this is something that we are facing as a society. It is something that we should have seen coming but we haven\u2019t, and now it is here and it\u2019s faster than we could even imagine. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a growing temptation in politics to do something about this, but often we focus on blanket bans. It feels like we\u2019ve moved away from cancel culture and we\u2019re now heading towards ban culture, and that is a dangerous place to be. We need to do something about these issues, but we need sophisticated solutions. We can\u2019t just go out there and say, \u201CWe\u2019re going to ban the internet.\u201D It\u2019s just not practical and it\u2019s not the world we live in, particularly not for our young people. We\u2019ve seen countries like the UK and their Online Safety Act struggle to deal effectively with the issues that have become, instead, bureaucratic nightmares. There are concerns about data sovereignty and data breaches, and it\u2019s a real scary thing to consider. But also, on the positive side, New Zealand can watch and we can learn and we can see what is happening in these countries in order to make none of the same mistakes and take all of the good things from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EMy colleague Dr Parmjeet Parmar has successfully called for the select committee inquiry to define the actual problems and hear from the experts that work in this field. I was able to submit to this inquiry and talk about my experiences, what people have said to me, and what they\u2019re telling me that they are feeling about being a parent and being concerned, but what I want to say today, as well, is that the Government is doing our part. We are looking into these issues and we\u2019re trying to come up with solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EBut, parents, wake up\u2014you guys need to get online yourselves or check out what your children are viewing online. There are a lot of advocacy groups out there doing a lot of work. They\u2019re calling for regulation, and there may be a case for that, but parents need to take some responsibility. It is not that hard to find out what your kids are doing online. There are apps available right now where you\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7f1ee0d2b4c4839a3f130e0adc34441\u0022\u003EHon Karen Chhour\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah\u2014free apps. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fdad5ce156047aebfff09b0dba7ce05\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re free\u2014\u201Cfree apps\u201D, I heard someone say. There are free apps where you can monitor your child\u2019s online activity and you can do things like screen time, for example. You can block websites. You can control the apps and things that they\u2019re on. Because I can tell you right now that the things that they are seeing online are extremely damaging and harmful. If you haven\u2019t done it already, you need to do it. You need to take some responsibility there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EInstead of trying to fix everything that we can about the internet, we could actually fix things and issues that we know are real right now and we know would be an easy win. One of those would be deepfakes. It\u2019s been four months since I put my member\u2019s bill into the tin, and it could sit there for ever. At the time, I shared the stories of those that had been traumatised by this form of digital harm, but what I didn\u2019t expect was the global exposure this would get and the flurries of further concerns that came through into my inbox. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not talking about a bit of fun, or a bit of a joke; we\u2019re talking about young individuals, nearly always female, that are finding themselves abused by this kind of behaviour. Having your image taken and turned into some kind of pornography is so damaging. One of the survivors of this has found herself unable to get a job, for example, because her potential employer googled her and found pornography that wasn\u2019t even her. Dropping out of high school, dropping out of university\u2014these are serious things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229ea8d231f4e948c19f942d51a4ae19bf\u0022\u003EWhile I\u2019ve got, particularly, Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke in the House, I just want to say thank you so much for supporting this bill. I know that when I came to Parliament, I wanted to make a difference, and it really, really upsets me and it kind of annoys me that senior leadership of the other parties could do something about this. We could actually debate this on the next member\u2019s day. This doesn\u2019t have to be a political issue, but instead we are making it a political issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022541d0675236840d784d280210d00c14d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022541d0675236840d784d280210d00c14d\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. New Zealand has amazing talent and some of the smartest ideas in the world, but the bit we don\u2019t have right now is the backing to take those ideas, to make sure they stay ours, and for them to work for us smarter. We\u2019ve got a problem in New Zealand, and I\u2019ve seen it right since the early 2000s when I first started getting involved in politics and looking at the economy. Back then, it was companies like Navman or 42BELOW vodka. Since then, we\u2019ve seen companies like TradeMe, Tip Top, Pic\u2019s Peanut Butter, PGG Wrightson Seeds\u2014the list goes on and on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThese are all Kiwi ideas, Kiwi ingenuity, and Kiwi businesses that grow to a certain size and get picked off and taken offshore. When that happens, not only do the jobs go, but the opportunities go. They go because it stops us from having stronger communities that benefit from that knowledge and that benefit from those opportunities. I think probably the hardest thing is the fact that our kids don\u2019t see that they have opportunities here in New Zealand when those companies go offshore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWhat does that mean for New Zealanders each day when they\u2019re going to pay for their groceries or trying to make ends meet? What that means is that there aren\u2019t enough jobs in New Zealand right now, that people don\u2019t have the higher wages that we do in Australia in other companies, and that we don\u2019t have the same opportunities to rise up within companies, because our businesses just don\u2019t grow that big here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t have to be that way. We can have a different future if we choose to, and we in Labour choose to build that future by having the first step in that direction, and that is the future fund. We know that if we own our future and we keep it here and we sustain those New Zealand companies to grow bigger and provide greater opportunities, not only does that grow our economy but that also makes our community stronger, it gives our people more money in their pockets, and it makes our country better. We believe in that future, but what do we see from the alternative? What is the alternative model we\u2019ve been offered so far? We\u2019ve seen that we can sell things off. I think National\u2019s next plan is to sell off our State assets. In Labour, we\u2019d like to keep them, put some in a future fund, and make them work smarter for us and for our people, not sell them off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe other option we\u2019ve heard is trickle-down, where those people at the top were going to be so loaded that the wealth is just going to eventually trickle down to those at the bottom. We\u2019ve heard the Prime Minister himself say that this is a two-stage recovery. One stage is for him and his mates, and the rest is for the rest of the country who are still waiting for the trickle-down to hit them. It never does. Foreign investment is a third idea we\u2019ve heard: \u201COpen up the floodgates. Let them in.\u201D We\u2019ve had a massive summit which has resulted in $1 million being spent, and the only offers are that two of those have said that they might open an office in the future. That\u2019s it. There\u2019s nothing in that at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe have so much potential here in New Zealand\u2014so much potential. I\u2019d just like to point to the video game development announcement. That rebate introduced over two years ago kept jobs here, but not only did it keep jobs here, it grew them even more. That industry has increased by 80 percent over the past two years. We know that that\u2019s smart jobs. For every dollar of taxpayers\u2019 money invested in that sector, the return was nearly $5. That\u2019s smart. It\u2019s not only more money in our economy; it\u2019s opportunities for our young people. They can look ahead and see a future here for themselves, a well-paying job in New Zealand, and that\u2019s the future that we want to look for. We know, in New Zealand, that we are smart. We know that we should back ourselves more, but we can\u2019t sit back and wait for that to happen, which is National\u2019s plan. We want to have the ability to back ourselves and to grow our future, because we know that we can build a future that serves us all, an economy that works for all of us\u2014not just one stage for them and a second stage for the rest of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what Labour offers that is different: making sure we build an economy from the ground up that works for everybody. We are small, but we are strong and mighty, and we can be so much better if we stick together and back ourselves. We want a future here in New Zealand where our children can look ahead and see a future for themselves here. Right now, we don\u2019t have that. We have 200 people a day on a plane heading overseas. We know that if we build our future fund and if we continue to grow a New Zealand that works for everybody, then that gives the opportunity for our kids to be here. I believe that\u2019s a future worth fighting for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022 data-id=\u00223d0ea9e132534780803f303cdc188cb3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d0ea9e132534780803f303cdc188cb3\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Spring has sprung, the grass is growing, the calves and lambs are being raised on farms, and the flowers are blooming. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c259acae33c4e7299dc7ffaee220b24\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Especially in the Waikato.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75e60ba53c044889e00852b24bdc332\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: In the mighty Waikato, of course\u2014the heartland of rural New Zealand\u2014we see that aplenty. It\u2019s always comforting to have that after the dreariness of winter, and the last Government was an apt metaphor for winter\u2014the dreariness; the dull, long, rainy days. People just want it over with, and, thankfully, this Government is like spring. Just as that new season growth, with calves thriving on farms, signals the arrival of spring, so does infrastructure, ambition, and delivery signal the arrival of a National Government. It\u2019s fantastic to see this Government delivering yet again, with a great announcement just this week on the roads of national significance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EAmbition abounds. Opportunity presents itself. This Government is absolutely driving that for the prosperity and the opportunity of New Zealanders around the country. Nowhere has that been seen more than in the mighty Waikato, where we are expecting to see two-thirds of all population growth over the next 30 years in our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003ESo it is absolutely fitting that we have seen $100 million committed towards the Southern Links project just this week, to explore, design, do site investigations and consenting to ensure that project can link up\u2014because, unfortunately, we are already seeing massive congestion in the Tamahere region. That is directly off the back of the Hamilton section of the Waikato Expressway opening, which is a great thing, of course, but we saw a 50 percent increase in traffic on State Highway 21 and 1 at that Tamahere interchange, off the back of that great piece of road opening, because everyone wants to use it. So, of course, now the next step is Southern Links to help join State Highway 3 to State Highway 1 and to cut across the bottom of Hamilton City. So it\u2019s a fantastic opportunity to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022230169e5a52f461dae4475d80bc86050\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Just fix the potholes\u2014that would be a start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c77e04b3a7d4bb6b7f92970fd9ccbfb\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN\u003C/span\u003E: The member across the House talks about potholes. Well, thank goodness that this Government has come up with a plan and we are delivering those. Potholes on State highways across the country\u201495 percent of them have been repaired within 48 hours. What a magnificent achievement\u2014far and away from what we saw under the last Government, where you were driving in trenches all over the show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003ESo thank goodness this announcement has come this week. It\u2019s a welcome delivery for the people of the Waikato and it comes off the back of the previous announcement to extend the Waikato Expressway down to the intersection of State Highway 1 and 29 at Piarere, a natural terminal point for that next stage of the expressway\u201423,000 vehicle movements a day along that piece of road. It just makes sense. We\u2019re going to see dirt being turned there within the next 12 months, and I am very excited about that. Ultimately, we want to see four lanes all the way through to the mighty Bay of Plenty, through to Tauranga; ideally, through a tunnel through the Kaimai Range\u2014that will be a game-changer for the region. It would unlock economic potential, it would improve safety, reduce emissions, improve our social connection\u2014massive benefits. These are the sorts of things that we are looking at, we want to drive, to ensure that New Zealanders can get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EBut wait, there\u2019s more: a third medical school. Ms Weenink talked about that before. That has been put forward by this Government, and we\u2019ll be turning dirt before Christmas. It\u2019s well overdue. We are extremely excited in the Waikato region to have that one shaping up for us, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EAs I said, the golden triangle is where the growth is happening. We are very ambitious. This Government is ensuring that we get the infrastructure in place to enable us to ride the wave of that growth opportunity and not be left treading water in its wake.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EAll of these fantastic things that I\u2019ve talked about\u2014none of them would have happened under the last Government. The last Government cancelled the extension of the expressway down to Piarere. They cancelled Southern Links. They opposed the third medical school. They lacked ambition. They did not support growth in our regions, particularly the Waikato. So thank goodness we have a Government that sees the opportunity in our regions; it sees the opportunity, frankly, for all of New Zealand. In the mighty Waikato, we are very excited about the potential that will be delivered under this Government for those infrastructure projects. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EThe last Government couldn\u2019t do it, and we\u2019ve seen, even now, that they still can\u2019t deliver. All we\u2019ve heard are empty promises, and some vague pieces of paper this week on potential policy. Infrastructure couldn\u2019t get up and running under the last Government. Where was light rail? Nowhere to be seen. Fake bridges. New Zealand needs a National Government to ensure that the renewal of spring turns into a glorious, long summer. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a33ecdd4779742b495b61eae25d03a31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a33ecdd4779742b495b61eae25d03a31\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m standing proudly in solidarity with our workers, including 100,000-plus workers who will be striking tomorrow across the country to send a clear message that they are not being valued by this Government and directly impacted by the decisions of this Government. These are workers who are in our communities, in our hospitals\u2014particularly in our healthcare services\u2014caring for us, for our tamariki, for our communities. Healthcare is a human right and should be a core public good and public service, and these workers are essential workers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003EThe situation right now is that this Government is not valuing them. Pay and conditions\u2014safe working conditions\u2014that\u2019s not really a lot to ask, one would think, especially for these services and these workers who are putting themselves out there for the love of people and community and want to care for people in their communities. Instead, they are working in chronic understaffing and unsafe working conditions. This is having an impact on them as workers and an impact on patients and the people that they want to provide proper care for. This puts the system under incredible burden and stress. We end up seeing chronic and more complicated illnesses and diagnoses, including in our emergency wards, where they are incredibly under stress. Stress is not the care that they want to deliver; they want to care properly. That, unfortunately, is often leading to tragic and irreversible loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003EI want to remind us that\u2014I think it was in 2023\u2014a coroner ruled that the preventable death, in 2023, of a woman at Waikato Hospital\u2019s emergency department occurred while the ED was five nurses short. Just today, in question time, we put to the Prime Minister, and to the Minister of Health, whether they agreed and are taking on board the feedback from the very nurses and health workers themselves who are saying that they are not in safe working conditions. The Prime Minister had the gall to completely dismiss what they are saying when the evidence is clear\u2014sadly, very clear. The Minister of Health had the gall to stand there and say, \u201CYes, you are, nurses. I\u2019m sorry, but we do not believe you; we will not listen to you telling us about trying to care for patients\u2014including, for example, those who have soiled themselves.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f24aa5cbe1844f8bc51aa736a20bed0\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251908aecf54340f5a2958a5f9a706307\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: These were the stories that we put\u2014am I hearing mocking of the stories that we are hearing on this side of the House, the stories directly from the nurses at the front line? They want to deliver better care, but 90 percent of the shifts are understaffed. Those are political choices. While this Government has chosen to fund wealthy landlords, has chosen to fund tobacco companies, has chosen to find all these billions for all of them, plus fossil fuel barons\u2014these are the choices\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8352f99b0c4ec391cba8793615a4de\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf3e76dbe3f94e2992f207e8dd2a5272\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that this Government has made. The strikes are a direct consequence of the choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284bffc16c143450aa367179062bce737\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Look, I understand that the member is quite energised about this, but it\u2019s not correct to say that we are funding wealthy tobacco companies and wealthy landlords. That is not a correct assertion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af1bb72e52e04386936cddab960fe608\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Finding the tax breaks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f21718d54084b6b829fbbb8f9f6aedd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288690ed5cd2842a6b406dac8c4703787\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Finding the tax breaks\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a99f6ded242c4b9b81e25ce14128d137\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Excuse me. Sit down. I need to address the point of order that has been made. This is a general debate, and people will say things in a general debate that others will not agree with. It is a matter of perception. There has always been a degree of latitude around the absurdity of saying that a tax cut is an expense against revenue. These are the sorts of things that do get debated in the House, so while I would suggest that the speaker does speak as factually as possible, it\u2019s not going to be ruled out of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acae163c2e39429d8df3cce7085e5350\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The other side of the House are far more outraged about my choice of words than they are about the actual situation that is happening in our healthcare system right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve put on the floor the real human stories and impacts from workers and from patients about the underinvestment in the public health system. That is a choice of this Government when, yes, they manage to find tax breaks and other ways of supporting wealthy landlords, tobacco companies, and fossil fuel barons\u2014I hope that was OK, thank you very much. Those are political choices. The Greens, instead, would choose to properly invest in public health systems, ensuring that our GP visits are free; that our nursing visits are free; that our dental care is free; that we provide vans in our rural areas and communities; diagnostic abilities; and, also, properly fund community and healthcare providers. Those are the choices that the Green Party would make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003EI am pleased to see that the public are supporting the people and the workers striking, because they are seeing through the gaslighting and the minimising of workers on the front line, when this Government, Prime Minister, and Minister of Health are saying, \u201CWe don\u2019t believe that you are telling us the truth. When you tell us that patients are not getting care, we don\u2019t believe you.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u002247379b826fbc4e14a2b8e5e591ec5ace\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247379b826fbc4e14a2b8e5e591ec5ace\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I was going to start with my quote of the week. I had quite a good one lined up ready to go, but we\u2019ve had a couple just in the last hour during this general debate, and maybe I can touch on them as I go. I just have to make a special mention of Chris Hipkins at the start saying that \u201CWe don\u2019t want to have any more blame and excuses.\u201D I just wonder if someone could wind the clock back for him 24 hours to when he was being asked, \u201CWell, why is there no detail in your policy and why did it not mention the right number?\u201D\u2014\u201COh, no, no, no, that was someone else\u2019s fault.\u201D \u201CWell, why didn\u2019t you know about the health policy you\u2019re announcing?\u201D\u2014\u201COh, that was someone else\u2019s fault.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI have to hand out the silver medal to Barbara Edmonds, who actually had the temerity to stand here, to look at Mark Patterson and say, \u201COh, well, we couldn\u2019t really copy the New Zealand First policy about the future fund, because there wasn\u2019t enough detail in it.\u201D One, of course they were copying it\u2014they just changed the cover page\u2014but, two, they were criticising the detail in it when what detail is in theirs? I think that what happened was that they got their one, ripped off the cover page, stuck a Labour one on, fed it into AI and said, \u201CTake out the detail and put in some jargon.\u201D, and that\u2019s pretty much what came out the other side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve gone through bronze and silver. I think I\u2019m going to keep my gold medal quote of the week to where I was going to start, and that also goes to Mr Chris Hipkins, who yesterday said that he couldn\u2019t \u201Chand-on-heart promise\u201D that Labour would build any roads. No kidding that he can\u2019t hand-on-heart promise that, because what happened last time they were in Government? They all got cancelled.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EPeople in Levin still remember 2018, when the expressway that National were going to build from \u014Ctaki to the north of Levin got cancelled\u2014outright cancelled. They remember 2020, when Julie Anne Genter said, \u201CWell, we\u2019ll let you bring it back if it\u2019s just two lanes, but we want two lanes that are just for public transport between Levin and \u014Ctaki.\u201D, which sounds\u2014well, it doesn\u2019t actually sound that good, but there is no public transport between Levin and \u014Ctaki, so I think, hand on heart\u2014hand on heart\u2014he can\u2019t promise to deliver anything. Yep, I thought that was pretty good. After six years in Government and then two years in Opposition, I thought they might be able to promise something, but all we got was the same old blame and excuses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EAs I looked along the rest of the front bench and I saw Willow-Jean Prime\u2014she needs to check a few more of her emails. She was asking the Minister of Education, the same one that she refused to collaborate with and then complain about not enough collaboration, why she would not go to the protest that\u2019s been cancelled. Why was she going to the roadshow instead? Why wouldn\u2019t she meet with educators? That was her question this afternoon. Well, guess who\u2019s at the roadshow? It\u2019s our teachers, it\u2019s our principals, and it\u2019s educators. This is the person that Labour have got in charge of the education policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ENext in line, we\u2019ve just heard from Ginny Andersen. She won\u2019t back the gang patch ban, even though she\u2019s acknowledged that it actually works pretty well; she won\u2019t back the law to stop protesting outside private residences, even though it kind of works, and they don\u2019t think it\u2019s right; and I\u2019m yet to hear her call out the Greens, who want to defund the police. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cec2889c6b4e5687ca8282b394923f\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s next, Tim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6a0f3032df6432e913306f9310ed758\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we may as well bring up the renowned Dunedin MP Damien O\u2019Connor, who\u2019s just openly opposing this great defence workforce bill that would back our service people in uniform. I\u2019d like to see that position turn around. Stop siding with your union mates and actually come and support some people in uniform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Hipkins talked a lot about people leaving the country. He doesn\u2019t have to look too far. He could look to his left and see Megan Woods; he could look just behind him and look at Duncan Webb\u2014all jumping ship, because they can see what the future holds. The only thing that\u2019s clear to me is that they\u2019re going to need some friends in a couple of years, and I can see the Green Party licking the kombucha off their lips. They are excited: $88.8 billion of new taxes, and tens of billions dollars more in debt. Their only plan to save money is to defund the police. But, don\u2019t worry, everyone\u2019s going to get $395. We just heard it from Marama Davidson: \u201CDon\u2019t worry, everything\u2019s free.\u201D, and the cry went out: \u201CWho is going to pay for it?\u201D\u2014\u201CYeah, we don\u2019t need to pay for it. It\u2019ll be free. It\u2019ll be provided by that magical person.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re also going to need \u201CNg\u0101 P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u201D\u2014I think that\u2019s what they are now\u2014who have had the great reset. Then they came in and we had the first speech, and it went a little bit too long, but that\u2019s OK. It\u2019s like Monty Python with the Spanish Inquisition: \u201CWe\u2019ll come in again. We\u2019ve reset sectarian\u00A0muhasasa\u00A0power-sharing system.\u201D They\u2019ve come back in, they throw each other under the bus. I don\u2019t know who\u2019s driving it\u2014probably John Tamihere. \u201COh, no, no, no\u2014we\u2019ll come in again.\u201D, and then they\u2019re burning stuff outside Parliament. I think they\u2019ve reset again. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EAll we have is spend, spend, spend and tax, tax, tax. \u201CNg\u0101 P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u201D can\u2019t agree on one word to say three times. What we\u2019re all about is affordability, decent healthcare and education, and safe communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022858be3b6400046e79a2dc5b09a79cb92\u0022\u003EVoting\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be41957ebde948f9842ee4769ce62c14\u0022\u003ECorrection\u2014Redress System for Abuse in Care Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022f04a345fc9b744239627c1252ed7dda2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f04a345fc9b744239627c1252ed7dda2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, on 21 October, when the House was considering the Redress System for Abuse in Care Bill, the result of the vote on the first reading was incorrectly recorded as Ayes 68, Noes 53. The correct result is Ayes 68, Noes 55. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222e63361558fe4d49a6b9bec0126330cb\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bbc49a363c54442c957e3e74e767cbbf\u0022\u003ESittings of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac16f67bcd094e94931d81927f9359a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac16f67bcd094e94931d81927f9359a5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the sitting of the House today be extended into tomorrow for: the third reading of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill; the second reading of the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill; the third reading of the Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill; and the second reading of the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022cb75988ec4da401fad10f598dd07a8eb\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 6.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022feff95aa8bdc4f3b92c9f0d290c8a66b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022feff95aa8bdc4f3b92c9f0d290c8a66b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002200afafeb9bf343b5948e1cbdb7f2a1ed\u0022\u003EAuckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e365d2e0e9f446b6a80a5c08ba0f9188\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022284ccb3b8ef245caafcf8452ffca4a41\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0ea05fc98d146d980e6357e21c4ab59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0ea05fc98d146d980e6357e21c4ab59\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill. We begin with the debate on Part 1. This is the debate on clauses 3 to 6, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D. The question is that Part 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002284bf406d973b48debadeb39b7adca1cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284bf406d973b48debadeb39b7adca1cc\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E As we enter the committee of the whole House stage to consider the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill, I want to briefly acknowledge the significance of this legislation and the important work that lies ahead in this stage. This bill lays the foundation for one of the most significant financial instruments that Auckland Council has ever established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThe Auckland Future Fund is designed to protect and grow the value of key public assets for the long-term benefit for both current and future generations of Aucklanders. I\u2019m looking forward to engaging constructively on the clauses and any proposed amendments, to ensure that this fund delivers the security, transparency, and sustainability that Aucklanders rightly expect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u00229a78504b9e2340c09397ca3bf54a07a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a78504b9e2340c09397ca3bf54a07a1\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair, and, firstly, congratulations to the member Dr Carlos Cheung, who is sitting in the committee chair for the first time. What an opportunity, and well done to him for bringing this bill to the House. It\u2019s some very good forward-thinking. It\u2019s great to see a future fund with details, which is very, very positive, and I commend the member in charge of the legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve got a number of questions for this part. My first one starts at clause 3, which is in and around the purpose. I\u2019m keen to understand from the member if he can explain why the purpose in clause 3 refers to ensuring the Auckland Future Fund \u201Ccontinues\u201D as a long-term financial investment, given that the fund has only just been established in statute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI strongly support the establishment of the Auckland Future Fund and the protections that this bill provides, but the word \u201Ccontinues\u201D suggests that the fund potentially already exists, which it does in the Auckland Council\u2019s long-term plan. But I want to ensure the committee understands that this bill is providing statutory protection for an existing council initiative, rather than creating something entirely new. So I\u2019d welcome the member\u2019s answer to that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002211a597b83e65450497d61daf20d4fe76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002211a597b83e65450497d61daf20d4fe76\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, members, and to Tom Rutherford for his question. The fund is to provide a strong return to the council to fund the services and infrastructure for the future. When the Auckland Council set up the fund, they actually asked to get a local bill to add an additional layer of protection to the fund. This is what this bill does, by requiring a 75 percent majority of councillors to agree to reduce the failure of the fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EOne of the questions is, you say, why are we doing this, why does this continue? I think, if you look back to the history of Auckland Council, when it was first set up, there used to be a fund that was set up during the old term by Christine Fletcher. This was called a \u201Crainy day fund\u201D, but it\u2019s actually called a diversified financial assets portfolio. That actually comes from the old legacy council. However, because there was no protection\u2014there was no additional layer of protection for this fund\u2014the fund was disestablished, and the money was actually being used for paying short-term debt and council spending. This is why we are feeling it is important here today to set up an extra layer of protection to make sure this fund continue to benefit people in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u0022f7ad0f096d5e4aebae00bd6f391d32a3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f7ad0f096d5e4aebae00bd6f391d32a3\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Labour supports the bill and its provision of statutory protection for the Auckland Future Fund. This will help futureproof the fund and provide Aucklanders with confidence that the fund\u2019s investments will be protected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003ELabour acknowledges and commends the hard work and creativity of the mayor, Wayne Brown, and Auckland Council in drafting this bill. The council has demonstrated professionalism and a strong commitment to ensuring that Auckland will have the capital funds to support the city\u2019s future growth. There\u2019s also another political party that proposed a very important future fund in recent days. Thank you very much, Labour Party!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003EAnyway, we did try to propose to the other side of the House that this debate should be taken as one, because there is very little in the first part and there is no disagreement across the House. Sadly, there seems to be an attempt here to filibuster on this bill, unnecessarily because actually the general public like it when we do support pieces of legislation. Mr Cheung has had the wonderful advantage and benefit of being gifted a bill from Auckland Council that is supported by everyone in this House. I won\u2019t speak any more to Part 1, because it is absolutely supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00226399868ee27044cc92375f403cbe55ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226399868ee27044cc92375f403cbe55ab\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Well, in part, I agree with the member on the left-hand side\u2014we actually acknowledge Wayne Brown for all his hard work\u2014but I think she forgets that it\u2019s about teamwork. It\u2019s not about people. We also need to acknowledge Councillor Christine Fletcher. We also want to acknowledge Christopher Swasbrook, the chair of the Auckland Future Fund, for all the hard work as well, and also all the officers who were involved in drafting this bill as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI think that member mentioned the future fund. Well, I think that makes a huge difference. Why are some of them against so many people? The Auckland Future Fund is not about storytelling; it\u2019s not about writing an essay like what the other side do\u2014they write essays and pretend they present a policy. This is a real policy. You can see that with the policy. You can read a lot of detail to show people what\u2019s going on with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAlso, I think this member probably doesn\u2019t work on those details, so she doesn\u2019t understand that that\u2019s a lot of hard work. Even though this is a local bill, a member of Parliament still needs to work very closely with the council staff to make sure all the feedback that is received by the public can feed back to the council and to try to amend the bill and make sure the bill will benefit Auckland in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u002207fedd9d449d4a99802c7620621467e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002207fedd9d449d4a99802c7620621467e4\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E Oh, what a great day for Mount Roskill. What a great day for Auckland. I commend the member in the chair, Carlos Cheung, and I congratulate him. I have certainly appreciated his continual advocacy the whole way through this process for the last few months. A staunch advocate he is for Mount Roskill in Auckland at that, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI would like to ask him a question in regard to clause 3, which is the purpose clause of the Act. He touched on one aspect in his previous answer where he talked about wanting to, sort of, futureproof. He might have been referring to the supermajority of 75 percent in clause 11, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll get to that in the future parts of the Act. I think that is an important provision. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EThe question I have is the fundamental one. As I read the bill, it seems this is the most appropriate place to address this, because it is the purpose of the bill. The question that I would actually like to hear from the member himself is around the purpose and the need for legislation, because there are many ways funds can be set up. You can get AI to write jargon for 12 pages and call it a future fund, apparently\u2014that\u2019s OK. But do we need to go through the whole process of having legislation? I know that we\u2019ve been through the first reading, and then we\u2019ve gone through a full and robust select committee process, and then, of course, we\u2019ve had the second reading, and you say, \u201CWell, we\u2019re not far from the end now. Why wouldn\u2019t we finish?\u201D That\u2019s not my question. My question is really about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb24f2e4d3941b5b3eac211cb6cc1ef\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: What is your question? It sounds like filibustering to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b80c96bb1312449293bb1a8257eb5419\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s great to hear from the other side, because we didn\u2019t hear from them during the select committee process\u2014it would have been really nice\u2014but we did hear from Carlos Cheung, and what a great advocate he is for Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EMy question is: does this require being kept in legislation? Because I can see the case coming where a change, for whatever reason, is needed, whether that\u2019s changing that supermajority from 75 percent to 67 percent\u2014a two-thirds majority. Is it going to go to 80 percent? We\u2019re going to have to come back and we\u2019re going to have to do what we did with the McLean Institute (Trust Variation) Act, and we\u2019re going to have to take months to work through this. We all remember the stories of Allan McLean and his journey from Wales to Australia to New Zealand and the process that that took us through. We\u2019ll be back here doing the same thing in no time for this. In fact, we just did that for Auckland Council when we worked through the \u201CTakapuna Boating Club Ice Cream Bill\u201D. So is it really necessary that we come through the whole process at Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb29047f6d4d43d1ab611d7f17d67b05\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Is it really necessary to listen to this speech that is just trying to eat up time? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246b04a2c780a4a9abf4d418dafd8c0ef\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to address this now once I\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229916dc756ca546a3b22afe810118e4f9\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: At least if you\u2019re going to filibuster, do a good job.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022493d62465fa84e5e9fbcfd5a4b696831\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s like white noise, but I\u2019ll start again. Is it really necessary to go through this now and to have this in legislation? Because once it\u2019s there, it will be nigh impossible to get rid of, and I can just see us coming back time and time again to change that. I\u2019d like to hear from the member: firstly, does he think that\u2019s necessary? Secondly, does he have, sort of, assurances that we\u2019ve got all the settings right\u2014this is the last chance to look at them\u2014so that we won\u2019t be coming back to make change after change after change and so that we have some certainty that we can move this through the House? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EThe last point that I was wanting to make is, you know, are we setting a precedent here? We\u2019ve been hearing about the Golden Triangle from Tim van de Molen, from Ryan Hamilton. I would argue that the K\u0101piti-Whitby area is a great area of growth, and we\u2019re going to see a lot more over the coming years. Are we going to see those councils wanting to set up their own future fund\u2014one that will have some detail in it\u2014and then we\u2019re going to have to put all of those through legislation? Is there a more broad framework that we could have considered to do this once and for all that might open the gate for others?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ESo I\u2019d like to hear, firstly, about the need for it. Have we got the settings right to ensure we\u2019re not going to do it again? Finally, is this precedent setting? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022e09dd7caa00140a5933f210b43214177\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e09dd7caa00140a5933f210b43214177\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, as I say, this Auckland Future Fund is a long-term development to try to benefit the people in Auckland. I think the main point is that the wording is important\u2014the \u201Clong-term\u201D. By long term, we\u2019re maybe talking about 10 years as a period of time, but we know there are a lot of factors that can affect the direction of local government. For example, every three years there are local elections and there will be a change of councillors. I think that every time there\u2019s a change of councillors, there is a chance that the direction of their priorities will change, and, for this, we want to make sure that this fund is set up in the long term and won\u2019t be affected by other factors such as elections or a change of direction as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAt the same time, in order to set up a supermajority of 75 percent, you do need to bring it to the House for legislation, and this is the main reason we bring this bill to the House as well. At the same time, you say, \u201CWhat will happen in the future if we want to make a little amendment as well?\u201D I think this is also up to the councillors as well. As I say, if they have over 75 percent, if a 75 percent majority of councillors agree, they will be able to change the legislation again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u00226c1fbcb82a2c4dff84b0ff889caddfcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c1fbcb82a2c4dff84b0ff889caddfcb\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. I want to come to clause 4, which is in Part 1, around \u201CInterpretation\u201D. I\u2019ve got a couple of questions in here. Clause 4(1) defines the \u201CAuckland Future Fund\u201D (AFF) as including \u201Cany funds or assets (or both) that the Council adds to the AFF\u201D\u2014which is the Auckland Future Fund in the future. I\u2019m keen to get an understanding from the member in charge, Dr Carlos Cheung, around whether he can indicate whether the Auckland\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265141f7511314da89ca09442fb90bfcc\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Which clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c25f49dafabc4b18a59748709d80e221\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, \u201CWhich clause?\u201D, Shanan Halbert asked. It\u2019s clause 4(1), in and around \u201CInterpretation\u201D. I\u2019ll just read it to you, actually. It says, \u201CIn this Act, unless the context otherwise requires,\u2014Auckland Future Fund or AFF\u2014(a) means the fund established by the Council as part of its Long-term Plan 2024\u20132034; and (b) includes\u2014(i) any funds or assets (or both) that the Council adds to the AFF;\u201D\u2014which was the part I was talking about\u2014\u201Cand (ii) capital and income retained in the AFF\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268d75afa53f74a86bb9a805b1aa524cd\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Where are all the Aucklanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289972c936a1742a4b519df3545ce54eb\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWhere are all the Aucklanders?\u201D Why does it matter about legislation and whether I\u2019m from Auckland or not? Why should that be a piece around whether\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed0261cf8bc148efb1f9ef2830359146\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Because it\u2019s an Auckland fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220aa06a13bcb64b54bc1333bc1b5e0250\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but this is a place for parliamentary people to come and actually do legislation. Why should it matter about the place that I come from? Why should it matter which part of New Zealand is my place of origin, around whether I can or cannot speak on legislation? If I want to ask the member in charge to improve the legislation and to scrutinise it, it shouldn\u2019t matter whether I come from Auckland or not. Actually, I take offence at a member saying \u201CWhere are the Aucklanders?\u201D, and asking why I have a right as a non-Aucklander to ask questions and scrutinise this legislation. Maybe that member might want to get to his feet and take a call on this exact bill and do the exact same thing. For shame\u2014for shame, from that member. No wonder he is on the list and didn\u2019t win his electorate seat back. Now, if I could actually get back to the point I was trying to ask of the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d65c89e1d6d1486aa5ae303e2208a6f5\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a really good idea, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8f4c7906f5e44d7a36564a12f0272d2\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, if he keeps heckling and interrupting me\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200de774443d94f63b4cb684ebbc277df\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s just a really good idea, without any explanation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022022b112ef66c45489d463d644fa01d3e\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you very much. My question is around how clause 4(1) defines the \u201CAuckland Future Fund\u201D as including \u201Cany funds or assets (or both) that the Council adds to the AFF\u201D in the future. Can the member indicate whether the Auckland Council has identified any other specific assets, beyond the Auckland Airport shareholding, that might be potentially transferred to the fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI note that the explanatory note mentions that the fund will initially be capitalised with Auckland Airport shares and may be further capitalised with other assets. Understanding whether other assets are being considered would help us assess the potential scale and importance of the fund over time. I commend this member and the council for their forward-thinking approach, which is commendable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMy second question is: can the member also clarify the breadth of what structures for governing and managing the AFF could include under clause 4(1)? Could this encompass, potentially, a trust, a council-controlled organisation\u2014a CCO\u2014a committee structure, or other arrangement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThe bill does provide some sensible flexibility for Auckland Council to choose the most appropriate governance model; however, I think it would be helpful if the member could clarify for us the range of options that are available under this definition, particularly as the council may change structures over time as they see fit. I\u2019d welcome the member answering both of those questions for me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022aeb94aa7d0c24c31a58b2db2b68762bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aeb94aa7d0c24c31a58b2db2b68762bd\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Once again, thank you to the member for the question. So, to talk about funding, yes, initially, the fund was capitalised by selling the airport shares, but at one stage I think there was a debate in Auckland Council about whether they wanted to put the Port of Auckland shares into the fund as well. I think that\u2019s the reason why they left it open on the wording like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAlso, I think there\u2019s some good news to tell other members as well, not only the airport shares\u2014now, obviously we know that the airport shares, when they sell, they make extra profit from what they expected\u2014but also recently Auckland Council have been willing to put another $45 million from the special dividends from Port of Auckland into the Auckland Future Fund as well. That\u2019s why you see that the Auckland Council is leaving it open\u2014so, in the future, they are happy to put more extra assets or more funding into the Auckland Future Fund in order to benefit the people in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ENow, if we just talk a little bit about the structure of the Auckland Future Fund, the Auckland Future Fund is basically like a council-controlled organisation. The overall direction will be given by the Auckland Council, but at the same time they run independently from Auckland Council. Three board members\u2014very experienced board members\u2014are being appointed to manage the fund and make all the investment decisions as well. All three board members will, based on the direction or the guidelines given from the Auckland Council to make their investment, make sure they benefit people in Auckland as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ERecently, there\u2019s also been some good news to tell the member as well. The Auckland Future Fund Board actually recently appointed Vontobel Asset Management as its global investment manager, with the responsibility to manage that $1.3 billion in funds on behalf of Auckland Council. Vontobel Asset Management company is a global company. They\u2019ve actually got offices all around the world\u2014I think in 23 different countries\u2014and they have a very good track record in the investment sector as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI also say that this is from a tender process, which is a very competitive tender process, in which we actually got 21 participants try to put in\u2014they wanted to work with Auckland Council. Then, from that, we actually managed to choose the best one, which is called Vontobel Asset Management company, to help Auckland Council to manage this global investment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u002281cd2664e3194439bc46049727aed897\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281cd2664e3194439bc46049727aed897\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think it\u2019s really clear that there is support for this bill, and there is very little in Part 1, nothing controversial, and certainly nothing that the Opposition seeks to debate on this particular bill, which is really a big part of what the committee stage is all about. It\u2019s our opportunity to debate detail. Now, where we all agree\u2014isn\u2019t it wonderful? That doesn\u2019t happen very often. I do worry that the other side is just eating up time in this debate for the sake of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae483c2d93cf456684c4158df70596f8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Sepuloni, you have the opportunity to move that the debate close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022444e46774e8f4a92bcad7757e5273623\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI\u003C/span\u003E: I know.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u0022d03711d901824272a28ff3c7194262e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d03711d901824272a28ff3c7194262e4\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. My previous questions have been on clause 3, which was the purpose, clause 4, the interpretation, which the member in charge just answered my two questions on, and I thank him for that. I now want to come to clause 5, which is Decisions of Council.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EIn the legislation, it says, \u201CIn this Act, decisions of the Council are made by the governing body (as defined in section 4(1) of the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009).\u201D Clause 5 specifies that decisions are made by the governing body, which would be Auckland Council. Can the member confirm that this means that these decisions require proper governing body meetings with things like notice, agendas, and public access as per normal council procedures? Many of us would know that you would go on to your local council website to find what is being discussed at your upcoming council meeting many days in advance of it\u2014so ensuring that things like agendas and public notices are available to the general public and that people can attend in person if they so wish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003ETransparency requirements are important, in my view, for maintaining public confidence in the fund. I would like to know from the member that he is going to reassure us that major decisions about the fund won\u2019t be made behind closed doors but will follow the normal democratic processes that apply not only to Auckland Council\u2019s governing body but, actually, to the expectations that we have through the Local Government Act of all our councils across New Zealand, to ensure transparency and openness to their ratepayer base and to the public, so that they know when meetings are happening, what are points of discussion, and then resolutions from the meeting once that meeting has concluded as well. I\u2019d be keen to hear from the member around what is expected on the transparency front from the council on this, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022186c52112c2d47c08ea40f5e21494d99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022186c52112c2d47c08ea40f5e21494d99\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I thank the members for their questions. Like I say, public confidence and transparency is one of the most important things when we are using our taxpayers\u2019 or ratepayers\u2019 money, so I think it is very important to let the public know what\u2019s going on. This is why an Auckland Future Fund and trust will actually have an annual report coming out to give detail on what is going on, what is the investment, how is the return going\u2014not only the annual report but also a six-months report, as well. Also, every three months, the board of trustees will also report to the council, as well, on the progress of what\u2019s going on with all this investment. That will give the general public more confidence, to see what\u2019s going on with their fund, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022602\u0022 data-id=\u0022f40cb2b963d74dfd81a0fcfe0ba8b6aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f40cb2b963d74dfd81a0fcfe0ba8b6aa\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E It gives me great pleasure to give rise to the voices of those in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, a city of wonder, life, culture, and its own strong identity. I am proud to rise as the member of Parliament for T\u0101maki-makau-rau to lend my voice for the first time in this matter and in particular on this bill, the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003ENow, contrary to what you\u2019ve heard in this House, especially for those in the Opposition, let me be very clear: Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the member of Parliament for T\u0101maki-makau-rau oppose this bill, and I will explain why. But before I do, we acknowledge\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and I acknowledge\u2014that economic prosperity is important and critical to the future of T\u0101maki-makau-rau and to all those who live, play, and visit our region. I acknowledge that the Auckland Council is doing good and important mahi to futureproof our region for future generations. However, I implore this Government and all those who hold power to determine how the lives of every single Aucklander is impacted now and into the future to honour your obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi; uphold your responsibilities as a partner. I will even go a step further to urge you to be like M\u0101ori. M\u0101ori have never breached Te Tiriti o Waitangi. So please rise and be the Treaty partner Aotearoa and Auckland deserves and needs today. It\u2019s not a hard ask. All it takes is to put the people and the planet before profit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003EIn this instance, I and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori are not saying, \u201CPut M\u0101ori before everything and everyone else\u201D, where this bill is concerned. No, we are not. We are urging you to include M\u0101ori in your decision making, especially when it impacts a significant portion of the M\u0101ori population. How does the Government pride itself on being unapologetic, on prioritising the economy for the benefit of all New Zealanders, when it does not factor in, nor make room for, nor even bother to include all New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s go back to the establishment of this Auckland Future Fund (AFF). Auckland Council sold its Auckland Airport shares, a sale that went ahead without consultation with M\u0101ori\u2014and not just any M\u0101ori: Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua and Waikato-Tainui. They were not afforded the respect that they deserve by being a prominent voice in consultation and decision making, but rather included as an afterthought. This bill lacks governance structure. In fact, it lacks any statutory requirements for M\u0101ori representation. When referring to the protection of intergenerational wealth, M\u0101ori must be a part of the decision making on what gets sold, how funds are invested, and who benefits from the returns. I mean, a global investment manager\u2014has that been appointed here? Where and what is the long-term investment strategy? How will tangata whenua, tangata Tiriti, and tangata moana who reside in T\u0101maki-makau-rau actually benefit from the funds? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003EI do have specific questions for the member to ask, and it goes back to clause 3, Part 1. The quoted text from the legislation is this: \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to ensure the AFF continues as a long-term financial investment for the benefit of the current and future communities of the Auckland region.\u201D My question: why does clause 3 not explicitly reference M\u0101ori communities or the Treaty of Waitangi, given the bill\u2019s stated purpose to benefit current and future communities? Would the Minister or the member support an amendment to include M\u0101ori as Treaty partners in the purpose clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003EI have another question. It is in regards to clause 4, Part 1. The quoted text from the legislation is this: \u201Cstructures for governing and managing the AFF means organisational structures for governing and managing the holding, direction, and operation of the AFF.\u201D The question is: would the member, the Minister, support adding definitions for \u201Cmana whenua Treaty partnership\u201D or \u201CM\u0101ori advisory group\u201D to clause 4 in Part 1 to clarify the role of M\u0101ori and the governance and management of the AFF? And may I remind this House that in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, we boast one-quarter of the entire M\u0101ori population\u2014250,000 M\u0101ori call T\u0101maki-makau-rau home. How is this justified as representative of every Aucklander and New Zealander when their voices aren\u2019t here? Please explain.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002272a9f0108b404737a4ddfada543e6735\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272a9f0108b404737a4ddfada543e6735\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, member, for raising that question. Obviously, this is an Auckland Future Fund. It\u2019s going to benefit everyone in Auckland, including different ethnicities as well, including M\u0101ori, Pasifika, Asian, European\u2014basically everyone living in Auckland. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI think one thing we need to understand about this bill: this bill is about adding an extra layer of protection to the fund, to make sure the fund isn\u2019t being misused or mismanaged. Overall, to invest the returns of this fund or how to make a decision is still guided by the Auckland Council. They\u2019ve got quite a few different documents to guide them, including the statement of intent, Auckland Future Fund policy, responsible investment policy, and also Auckland Future Fund distribution policy, and the deed of trust, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ESo, as I say, since we are guided by the statement of intent, we can also refer back to one of the Auckland Council\u2019s outcomes. We can know this, on the long-term future plan, we have six outcomes which Auckland Council tried to focus on, and M\u0101ori identity and wellbeing is one of them. But we can say that, due to the activities, I think the Auckland Future Fund may not directly contribute to this outcome. However, I think managing the risk and providing a strong return to council enables the achievement for this outcome across the group, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI want to remind the member, as well, the council actually has representatives from Houkura Independent M\u0101ori Statutory Board on the selection process for future fund directors. So they do have a say on who they want to employ, how those directors have the vision to benefit the M\u0101ori community as a whole, as well. So they actually have the obligation to ensure there\u2019s an opportunity for M\u0101ori to contribute to decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAt the same time, I just want some more good news to inform the member as well. The fund is actually achieving a M\u0101ori outcome plan, and the council has an independent board to monitor how council is considering the M\u0101ori perspective. I also want to give you more good news, as well: recently, Auckland Council have increased their Achieving M\u0101ori Outcome Budget by 10 percent next year, to support projects like marae infrastructure, energy, and climate resilience. So I think all this funding has a vision to benefit everyone in Auckland, including the M\u0101ori community as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u002217b765d478c94a0d8580e017c459d7fb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217b765d478c94a0d8580e017c459d7fb\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I must congratulate the member for taking the bill to the committee stage. I want to, firstly, just set the scene about the purpose of the Act, and I\u2019ve got some questions for the member. I\u2019m interested in the purpose clause being a long-term financial investment for the benefit of current and future Aucklanders. Now, as a member of the West Auckland community, I know that we have a large number of community assets that are aged out. Our one swimming pool, for example, built for the 1990 Commonwealth Games in Henderson, the West Wave pool, was for a population of around about 120,000 people. The population is now well over 200,000 heading towards 300,000 in West Auckland. So, what I would hope, Dr Cheung, as a benefit of this fund, is that investment in community assets like new swimming pools, for example, and new community facilities would be possible. I\u2019m interested in your perspective as to whether facilities like that would be one of those things that would benefit current and future communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI\u2019m also interested in the fund acting as a long-term financial investment vehicle. It\u2019s all very well to say we\u2019re going to put a billion dollars or so from the proceeds of Auckland Airport shares into the fund, Dr Cheung, but Auckland Council is sitting on billions and billions of dollars of lazy assets. It\u2019s got maybe $2 billion to $3\u00A0billion worth of port assets, and if they were put into the fund\u2014and you did mention it\u2014they could potentially generate fantastic dividends for Aucklanders every year. Then we have around $2.6\u00A0billion of vacant land and buildings that Auckland Council owns. So, Dr Cheung, do you think that the Auckland Future Fund will be able to realise its potential if it\u2019s only got one asset in it or, essentially, $1\u00A0billion from the sale of Auckland Airport shares, or do you see this as a very smooth vehicle to start bringing in these other assets, actually recycling assets, into things Aucklanders need, like community facilities? Dr Cheung, I\u2019d just like you to focus on those questions first, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002270ffe7e02b524f7da843a7eafb4311a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270ffe7e02b524f7da843a7eafb4311a2\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, member from West Auckland Simon Court, for raising the question. I actually have a similar request to the mayor as well. As we all know, Mt Roskill has recently been suffering from flooding, as well. We really want to have an upgrade of our stormwater infrastructure and also on the transportation infrastructure as well. However, this bill is about adding an extra layer of protection to how the fund is being invested. How to use the return of the fund is up to the Auckland Council. They are making the decision on which area they want to invest in. This is why I say it\u2019s so important that everyone needs to go to vote during the local election. Make sure you vote for someone who can represent your values, someone who can actually fight for your constituency, for some more investment in your area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EBut do you know what? In saying that, every three years, as well, I think the council will have a meeting to look at the direction, look at the return of the funding as well, to make sure that they\u2019re still kept in the right direction. I think there\u2019s multiple safeguards there to make sure that the funding works properly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAlso, to address your second question, which is \u201CIs it just only one funding or multiple fundings?\u201D, as I mentioned in my answer to the previous question from our colleague Tom Rutherford before, I think the Auckland Future Fund, at the moment, is capitalising by the sales of the airport shares, but I think this is only the start of this journey. In the future, the council has the opportunity or has the choice to put more excess into the fund as well, to make sure that they keep growing the fund, and to make sure that they have the high returns so that they can benefit Auckland as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u0022921dfec097264e17b0b216270c3003c2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022921dfec097264e17b0b216270c3003c2\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u0022cab8d3402cc14a999a3f45f0d08e316c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cab8d3402cc14a999a3f45f0d08e316c\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Dr Cheung, that\u2019s very helpful. I just want to explore what you consider to be the long-term financial investments for benefit a little bit further, and I just want to provide the context. The Government is planning, through the National Land Transport Fund and other initiatives\u2014potentially a city and regional deal\u2014to invest heavily in Auckland\u2019s infrastructure. Just this week, an announcement was made to invest in the East-West Link, an incredible piece of highway infrastructure that\u2019s going to get tens of thousands of heavy trucks off local roads around Onehunga, \u014Ct\u0101huhu, and other suburbs in south-east Auckland\u2014a project that is maybe five or six years overdue, which is about the term of the previous Labour Government that stopped it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, Dr Cheung, this project could cost somewhere in the region of $3 billion to $4 billion, and I\u2019m interested in your views on whether the Auckland Future Fund could be used to co-invest in projects where Auckland Council and its communities receive a benefit in order to make the overall dollar go further. We\u2019ve got the Mill Road project, and of course the north-west busway, which will lead from Auckland City out to Massey and Westgate, and out to as far as Kume\u016B and Huapai, eventually. So, Dr Cheung, do you think that the Auckland Future Fund could essentially become another public in the public-private partnership model so that Auckland Council invests its money and we can actually get more infrastructure up sooner? Do you think that\u2019s a possible use of this fund?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002203e592087cfb453e8096dd48f2ab654a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203e592087cfb453e8096dd48f2ab654a\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you to the member for raising another question. As I mentioned before, how they use the return on the investment is the council\u2019s decision. In saying that, the fund can be used for reducing the rates increase. It can also be put on infrastructure as well. There are a few things, so I think I\u2019ll just try to use this opportunity to mention how the model of this fund works, to give a little bit of extra confidence to the member here, Simon Court, to know that the fund will be going in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EOn behalf of the council, basically, we are trying to adopt 80 percent growth and 20 percent income of the portfolio to meet the council risk advertised. We want to make sure that the fund will grow, but at the same time minimise the risk as well. The member will be interested: what happens if the fund underperforms? Will that affect the future planning of infrastructure or increase the rates? I\u2019ve been informed by the council that if the fund underperforms it won\u2019t be affecting the rates. So they won\u2019t increase the rates in order to cover the loss of investment. I think that is a very good initiative for this Auckland Future Fund, making sure the fund keeps going and matching the development of Auckland and making sure we have enough funding to grow the city as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAlso, like I mentioned in the second reading as well, that also creates\u2014I think this is a new model as well, because currently, I think, for most of the local councils, all their funding is based on rates, based on debt, and also based on central government as well. So if this model actually works, I think it will open up to the rest of the country how councils can actually raise funds to make sure all the future development, all the funding, is sustainable for their development as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce7f3bd0966f471fa0fecd728fac74ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce7f3bd0966f471fa0fecd728fac74ee\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair, for the opportunity to take a call on this important bill before the committee this afternoon. It\u2019s my first opportunity to do so. I want to speak about clause 6, \u201CRelationship between this Act and other legislation applicable to Council financial management\u201D. I was interested in reading this particular clause, wondering about the depth in terms of the detail that\u2019s included here, given some of the lack of detail in other documents I\u2019ve read this week regarding funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI just wanted to ask you whether, when we talk about other legislation applicable to council\u2019s financial management, accountability, and use of funds, why a range of other Acts that relate to exactly that point, the role that councils play in terms of financial management, accountability, and use of funds, weren\u2019t also specifically detailed as subclauses\u2014including, for example, the Public Records Act 2005, which relates directly to financial document retention, and, obviously, that is something very relevant in relation to council financial management when you are buying and selling assets. As we\u2019ve learnt in the House earlier today, actually, the importance of funds being successful\u2014they both buy and sell their assets; so just understanding the retention of records in relation to that being an important component, potentially, of the council\u2019s financial management, and, therefore, a piece of legislation that may need to be specifically acknowledged and reflected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EAnother one in terms of that context, the Local Authorities (Members\u2019 Interests) Act 1968, the role that plays. You know, these funds can invest in things that may be local and there may become challenges where we have elected members who have interests in those, and that might be worth considering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EAlso, the Local Government (Auckland Council) Act 2009. It\u2019s specifically relevant to the Auckland Council, and, therefore, a piece of legislation when it comes to the financial management, accountability, and use of funds of Auckland Council, of the Auckland Future Fund itself, may be another relevant Act that needs to be taken into account.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EOf course, the Public Finance Act itself is all part of the wider scope of public finances, and that is something that captures council\u2019s interests. In relation to that Act, of course, as well, we have the overarching Companies Act 1993 for CCOs\u2014council-controlled organisations. The fund may invest in companies that could get caught in terms of that definition of a \u201Ccouncil-controlled company\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just wondering if any of those Acts should be specified just to ensure completeness under that clause 6(1)(b). Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022ced58e346f9c46fbb9fef1bd3bb7c7ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ced58e346f9c46fbb9fef1bd3bb7c7ca\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, member, for the question. Yes, it\u2019s true that Auckland Council does have a history of fund mismanagement, and they have been raising a lot of funding from our ratepayers as well. For example, I mentioned there used to be a fund called Diversified Financial Assets Portfolio, which was supposed to be a long-term fund, but due to mismanagement, the fund was disestablished and they\u2019ve been used for short-term repayment, the short-term debt, and all that council spending as well. This is exactly the reason why we want to bring this bill to the House here right now, because we want to make sure the purpose of the fund will remain the same for the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EWe want to make sure that the fund will benefit Aucklanders in the long term, not only the current generation but also the future generation as well. This is why we are bringing the bill here, to make sure that if they want to change the direction of the fund or want to change the initiative of the fund or how they invest the fund, they need to make sure they have 75 percent\u2014which is called a supermajority of councillors\u2014to agree. Otherwise, they can\u2019t just use the fund for other purposes. I think that\u2019s answered the question for the member: why this funding now? We are here setting the bill for Auckland Council. I think the purpose is to make sure the fund is not being mismanaged or being wasted in different areas that are not going to benefit Aucklanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b613381d19e34b35a849b6b0be4df14d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b613381d19e34b35a849b6b0be4df14d\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Chair. I\u2019ll just take a call and put focus on Part 1 clause 4 and the whole long-term view of the Auckland Future Fund and its benefits to the wider region, a region, which stretches all the way up to the edges of Mangawhai. There are investments that can be made up there for the benefit of the wider region, whether it be into some of the great regional parks they\u2019ve got up there but also into the area of huge investment around the golf courses. They need more infrastructure investment, potentially, up there that would benefit the wider population and provide opportunity for events and help to develop that part of the region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m intrigued to see how the benefits could flow to the wider population of Auckland. That\u2019s the focus around the events opportunity with investment into a potential area like Eden Park, which is obviously a large stadium in the middle of Auckland with a lot of history and a lot of contention, but it really needs the opportunity for investment to grow the use of that investment. I\u2019d be interested to hear what the member\u2019s thoughts are in terms of utilising that asset for wider use around the region to get a better return and better opportunities and more and more events to be held there and how that would benefit the population of Auckland going forward so that it will, once again, work on that livable city and provide lots of opportunities for the people, whether it be to invest in more opportunities to provide concerts and those sorts of things. If you can make the ground bigger so you can provide more cricket games for test cricket and so forth, which it struggles to do at the moment, that would be of benefit. But the investment of the fund could be used for something like that, I would have thought, to potentially help the sport of test cricket in the Auckland region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EAnd then that would then allow them, maybe, to have day-night games so that we can benefit the Indian population in particular, which we then can project to, because that works better for the time zones in terms of utilising the lights, the only lights that are probably good enough in Auckland to have a facility and provide entertainment at that time of night, and then the income that would come back from advertising into the region, and it would make for great entertainment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EThen other sports could benefit. You could change the shape of the ground if you could invest in it and, maybe, then put a roof on it so that you don\u2019t have to worry about whether it rains or not or whether the wind blows too hard. You can still have all your various sports, and you wouldn\u2019t have\u2014like we saw recently\u2014a T20 game being cancelled down in Canterbury because of the fact it rained for the second part of the match.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EThe advantages of having a future fund that can invest in that type of infrastructure, I think, would really benefit the wider population of not only Auckland but, actually, the country. It would bring people from around the country into Auckland to help drive that event sector. Then you would be hosting big rugby games with the benefit of not having to worry about what the weather\u2019s going to do and all that sort of thing. You can provide big, huge concerts and attract the really big acts. Wouldn\u2019t it be great to have Taylor Swift over here? After she\u2019s been out here and got married, she can go and perform a concert. Wouldn\u2019t that be a great thing? Wouldn\u2019t that be a great thing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223480570e0b704f789c79afacfdbe4533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f56e0f085a714b6e966ca797a27ffbbc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Why don\u2019t you get the Prime Minister to ask her again in a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a77c823e684333aa4a831d38b3d46e\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Exactly, wouldn\u2019t that be a great thing? I completely agree. Isn\u2019t that a great idea? Isn\u2019t that a great idea? Wouldn\u2019t that promote\u2014yes, Megan thinks it\u2019s a great idea. Well, it would certainly be a bigger venue than what we provide and what you\u2019re going to have in Canterbury, which is a great new stadium. The potential of covered stadia is that when you try to attract events, they don\u2019t have to worry about weather and the impact of that sort of thing. Investing in a roof would, I\u2019m sure, be of great interest to the people of Auckland. That\u2019s another one of the big things you could use it for. There are plenty of other events that that would be able to drive and help the people of Auckland. I\u2019ll be fascinated in your thoughts there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u0022d906937b077d4033899d1463fc08a566\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d906937b077d4033899d1463fc08a566\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00227ef9044c955f4bf0b7f86374c9618c20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ef9044c955f4bf0b7f86374c9618c20\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, thank you, thank you, Chair. Thank you, member, for raising the question. Although I keep saying that the Auckland Future Fund is going to benefit Aucklanders\u2014the current and future generations as well\u2014I always say that Auckland is the heartbeat of the country. We\u2019ve got 1.3 million people living in Auckland, and I believe that the impact for this fund, for this legislation, goes way beyond Auckland. I think it\u2019s going to be for the benefit of New Zealand as a whole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EFor example, I think the member just now raises a very good example. What\u2019s happening if they\u2019re going to put more infrastructure in Eden Park? We\u2019re going to benefit people. People will travel to Auckland to watch the concert. Or, for example, I think if Auckland Council put more funding on the transport level, I think that\u2019s going to benefit the whole country. We know that for the member, the MP for Warkworth, there\u2019s a lot of transport logistics going on between Northland and the Port of Auckland as well. Imagine if all this funding, the return on this investment, can go back to improve our transport network in Auckland. That also benefits the people in Northland as well. I agree with you. I believe that this bill\u2019s impact goes beyond Auckland and actually benefits everyone in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022 data-id=\u00226348057f28b04075a399264d1d1164e9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226348057f28b04075a399264d1d1164e9\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m interested to delve into an area that hasn\u2019t been traversed yet over the course of this debate, and I have been listening diligently throughout the early stages of this debate so far. It does delve a bit deeper into clause 4. I appreciate the higher-level perspective from the member Grant McCallum, who talked of his aspiration for roofs, but I thought, in particular, I wanted to touch here on clause 4(1)(b)(i)\u2014that\u2019s on line 18\u2014talking about the Auckland Future Fund (AFF) being the establishment of the fund in the Long-Term Plan. It includes \u201Cany funds or assets (or both) that the Council adds to the AFF;\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m interested in the first part of that, in particular \u201Cany funds or assets\u201D. I\u2019m interested to understand from the member in the chair whether he can give us some greater insight around when a fund is not an asset\u2014because, obviously, we\u2019re well aware of normal processes to draft legislation that is simple, concise, and as clear as possible, so I am interested in why they have chosen to specify \u201Cfunds or assets (or both)\u201D as opposed to simply saying \u201Cassets\u201D. The suggestion there, to me, anyway\u2014and I\u2019m happy to be corrected by the member in the chair\u2014is that it\u2019s possible for Auckland Council to perceive a scenario where a fund is not an asset but they may still wish to include it in the Auckland Future Fund. That, I suggest, would be an unusual situation, but, again, it\u2019s unusual that we\u2019ve broken out fund and asset in this situation, where most people would consider, I think, funds to be assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EIf there is indeed a scenario where the member could shed some light on any potential funds that the Auckland Council currently has that are, from their perspective, not considered to be assets, or maybe perhaps be in negative equity? There could technically be a scenario where that could happen if they had a standalone fund and that fund had borrowed money against the assets of the fund, which have then devalued over time for some particular reason such that it was in a negative equity position\u2014that is a potential scenario that could occur. I suggest it would be unlikely, but, again, I come back to the point of why you would specify those two separate pieces being a fund or an asset if, indeed, that was not the expectation that there could be at some point a fund that was not an asset such that it needs to be clarified through that mechanism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EThen, I guess the question that flows from that is: if, indeed, a fund could potentially not be an asset in that scenario, is it the intent of Auckland Council that they may look to leverage some of these funds such that they may be in a position of vulnerability and may fall into a negative equity situation? I think that would definitely give a different lens on the conversation we\u2019ve had so far around looking to, primarily\u2014well, the conversation certainly has primarily focused on assets, but that could be a scenario where we have a leveraged fund in negative equity. Of course, that still could, potentially, be cashflow positive, but I would suggest, again, that that would be an unusual scenario.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really just interested in understanding why we\u2019ve seen that classification of \u201Cany funds or assets (or both)\u201D\u2014why the distinction of fund versus asset, unless there is that scenario. As I said, I would be surprised if there was a scenario where we were talking of funds potentially being in negative equity, but it could technically be possible. As I say, that suggests\u2014well, asks the question, actually\u2014is that where they\u2019re wanting to go, putting something as a potential liability or a negative equity into the Auckland Future Fund? What are the potential implications of that, if that was a scenario that came to be in some sort of speculative investment environment that then could potentially have a detrimental effect on the Auckland Future Fund itself, which, of course, then would go against, presumably, the premise of the fund looking to grow wealth over time and return investment to the city to fund a wide myriad of things like roofs, as Mr McCallum has suggested?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220163f493865845b2aeb9c30858584495\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really interested if we can get some clarity around that aspect in particular from the member in the chair, and I do want to acknowledge his work on this, working on behalf of his constituency and the wider Auckland region to bring this bill forward. It is a useful suggestion, but I just really do think it would be helpful for the committee if we could gain some clarity on that aspect in particular to ensure that we have the right lens around this as we proceed. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00228795d77e78994bb49193d929bdfe8484\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228795d77e78994bb49193d929bdfe8484\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Well, the Auckland Future Fund for me is not only a fund to grow the fund for future Auckland development as well, but I also think it represents a new journey of local government with a different funding model. I mean, at this stage, yes, maybe we have only got the fund which was raised from the sale of the Auckland Airport shares, but I think this is only the first stage. I think in the future we\u2019re going to put different assets into the fund as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EWe remember one of the reasons or one of the initiatives of this fund is to try to diversify all the investments. At the moment, I think most of the Auckland investments are either on properties or on shares, and I think they have a high risk to the funding model. I think we would love diverse investment. Also, I think we\u2019ve got to put more funding or more assets into the fund. This is why clause 4 is purposely drafted like this, to leave the door open for the future, to allow Auckland to put more assets into the fund in order to match the development of Auckland in the long term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022 data-id=\u002229396253ca3c4a52b181e7e1fbc627cd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229396253ca3c4a52b181e7e1fbc627cd\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Chair, through you, if I could ask the member in charge: is there a chance, through this bill, for the Auckland Council to see the error of its ways and perhaps buy back into Auckland Airport, a gold-standard piece of monopoly infrastructure that\u2019s expanding, pays a good dividend, and would be able to be leveraged to pay for Grant McCallum\u2019s Taylor Swift concert? If so, so be it. Are they going to be able to see the error of their ways, Mr Cheung?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00222f4f580ad8094ebb926d07b283895a23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f4f580ad8094ebb926d07b283895a23\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Minister, for your questions. As I say, I mean, there\u2019s nothing wrong with investing in specific shares or specific assets, but, at the moment, we need to also know that we want to reduce the risk; we want to manage the risk. For example, during COVID, when we didn\u2019t actually have tourists coming from overseas, and we got a lot of flights being cancelled because of the pandemic and, obviously, airport shares not doing well, that actually reduced the return of the fund. That affects the future planning for Auckland Council as well, so I think it\u2019s very important to diversify all investment to make sure we\u2019ve got return from different areas, as well. That will provide an extra layer of protection to our funding model, to enable Auckland Council and the councillors to plan in the long term, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f14cd67b5a784ebe8bf82ad703234a7d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f14cd67b5a784ebe8bf82ad703234a7d\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EPart 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221597fb1c13f54bb3ad958d37016b40d2\u0022\u003EPart 2  Auckland Future Fund\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00229cb9a0ebd1194561840a008baa1aba84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229cb9a0ebd1194561840a008baa1aba84\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2. This is the debate on clauses 7 to 12, \u201CAuckland Future Fund\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u002239f87348d33e43c4a6d561f61c3577b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239f87348d33e43c4a6d561f61c3577b3\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Chair. It\u2019s great to come into Part 2. I\u2019ve got questions relating to clause 7, which is around the governance and management of the Auckland Future Fund (AFF). My first question relates to clause 7(1), which requires the council to \u201Cput in place structures for governing and managing the AFF.\u201D I\u2019d be interested if the member Dr Carlos Cheung could just clarify what specific structures Auckland Council currently has potentially in mind. Could this potentially be a trust, a council-controlled organisation, or another entity? I think it would be helpful for the committee to understand the practical implementation. While the bill, rightly, provides flexibility, understanding the council\u2019s current thinking would help us assess how these provisions will work in practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMy second question is on clause 7(2)(b), which allows structures to be implemented either internally, within council, or externally, through trusts or other entities. Could the member please explain how this works if the council initially establishes the fund internally but later decides to potentially move it, say, to an external trust? What would the process be to require that change to potentially happen? The flexibility in this part definitely seems sensible, as best practice evolves over time; however, I\u2019m keen to ensure and understand the implications of shifting between internal and external management, particularly regarding staff contracts and continuity of investment strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMy next question comes to clause (7)(2)(b)(ii)\u2014so I\u2019ve done 7(1), I\u2019ve done 7(2)(b), and now we\u2019re on 7(2)(b)(ii). If the fund is managed externally through a trust or other entity under that clause, how will accountability to Auckland ratepayers be maintained? External management might bring in expertise and independence, which I definitely support; however, Aucklanders will rightly expect to maintain visibility and accountability over their fund. Can the member explain how this balance would be achieved in practice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003ESo my questions were relating to clause 7(1), 7(2)(b), and 7(2)(b)(ii). I welcome the answers from the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00225d6eb1c4d3f84b398d7de3b69f892b39\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225d6eb1c4d3f84b398d7de3b69f892b39\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E So Auckland Future Fund is a separate council-controlled organisation (CCO), in which they actually receive direction from the council, but they actually work independently. So the council basically will select the board member, the three board members. They\u2019re selected based on their experience, based on their track record as well, but also they will try to prevent any conflict of interest and also any political influence as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EFor example, board members can\u2019t be the family members or the members of a councillor or the mayor, to keep it more independent as well. But at the same time, the fund itself is also subject to an external audit by the Auditor-General of its financial and service performance as well. So it makes sure the fund and its performance is accountable to the council and must comply\u2014 \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e3fe402d4474e91b978057a051e4879\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: I love how he\u2019s got all his answers written out for these questions from his colleagues!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287b8765b428a4943a30314c937d672c1\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with the CCO accountable policy, including quarterly, according to the statement of intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI think this is not called an answer, but to answer the member on the other side, I think this is called preparation. We want to make sure, and I think this is something that on that side of the House they\u2019re not very good at! You know, because for me, one thing I want to know as the chair is I want to provide as much detail as possible to the member to make sure I give them confidence that this legislation is benefiting people, not like the other side. They just like to write essays or give us 11 pages of document or pictures, and I think this is not the way to actually do things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI think that also refers to the member\u2019s previous statements as well: \u201COh, I don\u2019t think the member actually does anything\u201D or \u201CI think it\u2019s just the council that gives him the bill to carry.\u201D This is a perfect example of a member of Parliament, how to work hard together with the council to make sure we clear all the concerns raised by the other side of the House as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u002215bd75bf832542c9a0f84180ed575d3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215bd75bf832542c9a0f84180ed575d3c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair, and thank you to the member for answering my questions relating to clause 7. I want to move on to clause 8, which is around the principles for governing and managing the Auckland Future Fund. Clause 8(b) states, \u201Cwith the intent of maintaining or increasing the real value of its capital over time.\u201D I\u2019m keen to understand from the member how \u201Creal value\u201D will be defined and measured. If I put myself in the shoes of the ratepayers, I would be keen to know how I could see that the fund was being managed \u201Cwith the intent of maintaining or increasing the real value of its capital over time.\u201D How will \u201Creal value\u201D be defined and measured?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMy next question is around clause 8(b) as well, which is the phrase \u201Cover time\u201D. It\u2019s important for giving the fund appropriate flexibility, which I appreciate, but could the member just clarify what time frame is envisaged? Is this measured annually, potentially over a rolling five-year period, or potentially even a longer term? I ask because investment markets, as we know, can be volatile in the short term, and I want to ensure that the fund has appropriate flexibility to weather market downturns without being in a technical breach of the Act. A long-term investment approach requires the ability to ride out short-term volatility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EClause 8 also sets out principles but doesn\u2019t specify consequences if the principles aren\u2019t followed. These principles are at the heart of the bill\u2019s protection for future generations. While I\u2019m confident that both the member and the Auckland Council will follow them, it would be helpful to understand what happens if a future council or fund manager doesn\u2019t comply. Is this a matter for the courts, for the Auditor-General, or another body? What mechanisms exist to enforce compliance with these principles?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00224b04c70dd88a40a29b13f458bbe6a05d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224b04c70dd88a40a29b13f458bbe6a05d\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, member, for the questions. So in order to retain the fund, I think it\u2019s relatively related to the inflation numbers as well. So as the proposal has been proposed, the expected return of the Auckland Future Fund is 7.42 percent, and within that, 2 percent will be used to retain the fund value to make sure the fund can keep growing as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAlso, as I mentioned before, as a council-controlled organisation (CCO), they are actually subject to external auditing by the Auditor-General for its financial and service performance as well. So most of the data and most of the investment value will be reported quarterly, and also every year they have actually got an annual report as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI think the member actually raised a very good point as well, because this is core investment. There\u2019s no guarantee that everything will go accordingly, especially during some financial downturn or some economic crisis as well. There\u2019s no guarantee that the fund will always perform as it has been described. But in saying that, the 7.42 percent is based on the calculation for the long term, and we have already put a lot of different factors into the consideration, and we want to make sure all this investment will be managed\u2014the risk will be managed. Also, I think this is all another layer of safeguard as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EEvery three years, councillors will look into the appointment of the board members as well. If they are not performing well, they will look into it and see whether they want to reappoint other board members to make sure the fund continues to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022 data-id=\u0022274f14851c094ef287a3491757a13bbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022274f14851c094ef287a3491757a13bbf\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E In relation to the governance of the Auckland Future Fund, very good discussion\u2014thank you very much for your questions, Tom. My question is around the words \u201Ccouncil-controlled organisation\u201D (CCO), which you\u2019ve used\u2014and although this is not decided completely as yet, we do note that the Auckland Council has had a predilection just recently of pulling all CCOs into council. This, to me, presents an issue, because what we\u2019re trying to do here is create a fund on behalf of Auckland\u2019s shareholders\u2014citizens of Auckland\u2014and if this is close to and controlled by council, I fear for the future of the fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EHowever, if there are enough governance rules in place in terms of separating this organisation to be able to return the 7.2 percent per annum or greater, to give them the freedom to do so without interference of the councillors that come in from time to time and/or the mayor\u2014can you give us some assurance around those governance arrangements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022214b7905ba3d46a480abf4dfc34ec0c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022214b7905ba3d46a480abf4dfc34ec0c1\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, members, for the questions. Yes, I think this is the reason why we set up the legislation here, to make sure the fund will not be affected by political environment changes. We made sure the fund will have the initial initiative to keep benefits to Auckland as a whole, because we know that, like you say, every single time there\u2019s a local election going on, we may have a different councillor into the Auckland Council. They may think differently, they may have different priorities, but for this we want to make sure the fund is going to be used long term. I think, as referred to before, without this legislation\u2014like the one we talked about, the financial assessment portfolio, which was set up by a previous council before\u2014because without the legislation, that fund wasn\u2019t performing well or they were being mismanaged or being misused, and they need to be disestablished. So I think it is important we\u2019re here. We set up a very high bar for the council, to make sure they can change the initiative or change the use of the fund only when they have a super majority, which means only 75 percent of the councillors have agreed to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u00224e6459ddd945425cb4067e8fe7d564d0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e6459ddd945425cb4067e8fe7d564d0\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you very much. I want to ask a question on clause 9(1)(c) in Part 2, which says, \u201Cacting independently of members of the Council and those members\u2019 personal or political interests\u201D. It\u2019s around the investment decision-making. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EMy concern doesn\u2019t lie so much about the independence of that investment decision-making being sufficiently far enough away from, say, elected members. My concern lies with the amount of the dividend expectation that may be put on them, overtly or subconsciously, and whether the entity, the Auckland Future Fund (AFF) board, or its designated investment wealth manager is protected enough to make the right decisions around dividends and around the timing of dividends that are in the best interests of the fund and not in the best interests of the local body politicians\u2014if I want to be straight with you. It is so that this fund is not under pressure and so that the chair, Christopher Swasbrook, who has got a lot of respect and experience and integrity up in Auckland and who is chairing the AFF board\u2014that they are not under a lot of the pressure that we might have seen from the Port of Auckland in previous years to deliver a dividend, and there is this \u201CThis is how much we want.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EAs we know, we\u2019ve got some reasonably lively and unpredictable local body politicians in and around the Auckland Council chamber, and I just want that assurance that there\u2019s not going to be the pressure to deliver so much dividend every so often. I say that because it started on a high: a $38\u00A0million dividend was paid out from the June to December period in this year alone, making that period 13 percent higher than forecast. I suspect that the incoming council, which will be revenue short and capital short and up against its debt ceilings, will be like: \u201CWell, when\u2019s the next $38 million coming? Why can\u2019t we make it $338 million?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ESo I say yes to clause 9 in Part 2 around the independence of investment decisions, but I\u2019m more interested in whether we\u2019re covered in this statute, I say to the sponsoring MP. Are we covered so that this entity chaired by Chris Swasbrook is not going to be under any political pressure as far as paying out dividends, how often they get paid out, and how big they should be? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u002285b16e792c6e44119e587f0be6932e65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b16e792c6e44119e587f0be6932e65\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E That\u2019s a very, very good question. I think that this bill basically is about focusing on the growth of the fund. There are a few further terms: is this setting the right percentage of return? Will it be too aggressive or too conservative? Obviously, during the economic good times when you go for aggressive, you\u2019ve got a high return, but you\u2019ve also got a high risk as well. On the other hand, during economic uncertainty, you obviously want to go for a more conservative approach. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ESo most of the investment guidelines are based on Responsible Investment Policy released by the Auckland Council as well. [Holds up document]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2fe1529e56b43a7855fb741c7ee3f2c\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve already had you hold that up. Thank you for holding it up again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022279e7d3cea564317b390c8340f6cdd72\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG\u003C/span\u003E: So, basically, I just want to tell people\u2014well, just to let you know, not everyone in front of the TV has been watching this debate since, like, 3 o\u2019clock. I think it\u2019s very important to tell people in front of the TV or who have just recently turned on the TV to look at the parliamentary debate, to make sure they know what\u2019s going on and all the detail as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ESo I just want to read out what council has actually called responsible investment policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243047f6aafd44b839351681deac5aa6a\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t read out from the document, please. It\u2019s not the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d8eef4c8d9341ec97785b3a59c0ced9\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG\u003C/span\u003E: I know that the member on the left-hand side doesn\u2019t really care because they don\u2019t really care about the future of Auckland, but I think most of the people involved with the TV would love to know what\u2019s going on, what\u2019s happened to my rates and my fund as well. So I just want to read it out: \u201CThe council recognised that there are challenges in the implementation of a responsible investment policy when investing globally. For efficiency, operational, and cost reasons, the council fund may be invested in pooling funds known as collective investment vehicles. Where this is the case, there will be limits on the ability to exclude securities from the investment portfolio. In such an instance, fund governance will ensure the manager of the collective investment vehicle is aware of the council\u2019s responsible investment policy and should be satisfied that there is a broad alignment with the policy applied in the management of the collective investment vehicle.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI hope that that actually gives us a little bit of information or gives a little bit more public confidence to people in front of the TV, rather than you just turn it on and the other side just says, \u201CShut up and sit down.\u201D and they just don\u2019t really care. I think this is our job as MPs, as parliamentarians: to make sure our general public know what we\u2019re going through, what is the detail of the legislation, and give them the confidence as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u0022da88612a6e1340aca49fb572d8f60190\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da88612a6e1340aca49fb572d8f60190\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Labour\u2014Kelston):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002297cefa35c64945509b2501f40506ae78\u0022\u003EClauses 1 and 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f42fd05adad9407bb28d3b32a7fba55b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f42fd05adad9407bb28d3b32a7fba55b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to our final debate, clauses 1 and 2. This is the debate on the title and commencement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EClause 1 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EClause 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd81b74123014aef9674ea4e61716f9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd81b74123014aef9674ea4e61716f9c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223525b2b83bf04f3193015081e18d5c91\u0022\u003EConsumer Guarantees (Right to Repair) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224bd97c7e7efc494faa3d39a311df05e9\u0022\u003EDischarge\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u0022e88a3a474c0b4d42b06c9c0f38c1855f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e88a3a474c0b4d42b06c9c0f38c1855f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I was expecting the member in charge of the legislation from the Green Party to stand and take the first call on this bill, given it\u2019s her piece of legislation, but she hasn\u2019t turned up to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00220e231ac9018b4a2da3dd024c3e3b1957\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e231ac9018b4a2da3dd024c3e3b1957\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Because it wasn\u2019t moved, I\u2019ll have to move to the next\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a708e97fad0427aac0ac90044c2cc9a\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002212f8ca5435b3432fb55341d9ce29b1b3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019ve got a bit of a timing issue now. The member wasn\u2019t present to move the motion and I had just started ruling on that, that it had to be\u2014it then dropped off and then we moved to the next item on the members\u2019 order of the day. So I call on members\u2019 order of the day No. 2.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c7fec1ed7c44ebeb354116f5a5d958a\u0022\u003EJuries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d33f16086c024f78a3a9659e58e88ca5\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u0022edc5794a4b76437999601ef9155005a4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edc5794a4b76437999601ef9155005a4\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI rise to speak on the second reading of the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill, a bill that seeks to modernise our jury service framework by raising the age at which individuals may automatically be excused from jury duty from 65 to 72. This is a modest but meaningful change. It reflects the evolving demographics of New Zealand, the practical realities of our justice system, and the enduring civic value of older New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve previously indicated to the House, the idea for this bill was first raised during a visit to the Auckland High Court with the Minister of Justice, the Hon Paul Goldsmith. Court staff highlighted the challenge of filling jury benches due to the high number of age-based excusals. The supporting data came later, confirming that 47 percent of excusals are granted solely on the basis of age. That is nearly half of all excusals, and it is not because people are unable to serve but because the law allows them to automatically opt out. This creates a significant administrative burden. More summonses must be sent out, more follow-ups are required, and more time is spent managing excusal requests. By raising the excusal age, we reduce that burden, making the system more efficient and more representative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003ELet me clarify what this bill does and what it does not do. This bill does not introduce age into the jury system. That already exists. Under current law, anyone aged 65 or over may request automatic excusal from jury duty, either permanently or for that particular occasion, and that request is granted without question. This bill simply raises the threshold for that automatic excusal to 72. If someone has a genuine reason\u2014health, caregiving, employment, or personal circumstances\u2014they may still seek to be excused at any age. That does not change, but, if not, the expectation should be that one fulfils their civic duty like everyone else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EOne of the key issues this bill addresses is the perception that civic duty ends at 65. As I said in my opening remarks to the Justice Committee, you can serve on a jury past the age of 65\u2014in fact, many do\u2014but the automatic opt-out creates confusion and, worse, creates an expectation that once you hit 65, you\u2019ve done your bit and you do not need to serve. That is not a view I support. Civic duty, like voting, volunteering, and public service, does not expire at retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EJury service is a cornerstone of our democracy. It is one of the few remaining civic obligations that applies broadly across society. To automatically excuse large numbers of healthy, capable people from participating undermines that duty and weakens the representative nature of our juries. This bill sends a clear message that we trust our seniors to participate in civic life, and we expect them to continue contributing, just as they do in churches, in sports clubs, in community organisations, and in workplaces across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Justice Committee for their careful consideration of this bill. The committee received a range of submissions and, ultimately, recommended that the bill be passed, along with several amendments. One key amendment was the insertion of transitional provisions ensuring summonses issued before Royal assent remain subject to the current law. This avoids retrospective application and provides clarity for registrars and court staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the committee\u2019s role in examining the options in terms of age thresholds. I specifically asked the committee to consider whether 72 was the right reference point in terms of an age. In considering the new threshold, the committee examined several benchmarks. It considered the age of retirement of judges at 75 and the Ombudsman\u2019s retirement age at 72, whereas international norms vary, with the excusal age of 70 in Australia, 76 in England and Wales, and even 80 in parts of the United States. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe age of 72 strikes the right balance. It reflects capability, it respects contribution, and it aligns with other civic roles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThis is not, though, a radical leap. The threshold was originally 60, and it was then raised to 65 back in 1945. Eighty years later, we must ask whether this still reflects our society. Life expectancy has jumped dramatically since then, and since 1982, when it was also reviewed, the life expectancy for men has increased from 70 to 76, and for women, from 80 to 83, respectively, today\u2014I\u2019ve mucked that up. It increased from 70 for men and 76 for women in 1981, to 80 and 83 for women today. Today, New Zealanders are healthier and more active, and are engaged longer in the community than ever before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe submissions received by the committee offered a range of perspectives. Some supported the increase, others suggested alternative thresholds, and some raised broader questions about the role of having an age in jury service at all. Age Concern New Zealand supported the increase but recommended 70 as the more suitable threshold, aligning with the judicial retirement age. They noted the huge value and life experience the 65-plus cohort can continue to bring to jury service. The New Zealand Law Society supported the intent of the bill but emphasised the importance of maintaining trust by the public and confidence in our jury system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe Wellington Community Justice Project, a group of law students here in Wellington, offered a particularly thoughtful submission. They wrote that raising the jury excusal age would reflect, rather than lead, existing social trends that support older adults\u2019 continued participation in public life. They also highlighted the need for the ability for excusal processes to be accessible, noting that while most senior New Zealanders use the internet, digital exclusion remains a concern, and they had some suggestions in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EOther submitters shared personal reflections. Sarah Brodrick wrote, \u201COur baby boomer generation has so much wealth of knowledge and life experience to offer in the courts \u2026 Lifting the age to 72 \u2026 will enable \u2026 seniors \u2026 to feel a sense pride and to feel needed by our society\u201D. To feel a sense of pride and to feel needed by our society. Margaret Thompson, aged 80, simply said, \u201CI would like to be able to sit on a jury\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EIn going through the process in the Justice Committee, it was very clear that there was a broad range of support across the membership of the select committee. It was recognised that we should consider the various options for ages for the excusal age, with 72 being what they ultimately landed on as the most appropriate age to recommend back to the House, as originally intended in the first draft of the bill that I spoke on in this House in the first reading, and they came back with that simple amendment to ensure that there wasn\u2019t a problem around retrospectivity of the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, these voices that I\u2019ve shared with you from the submitters remind us that senior New Zealanders are not just capable; they are willing, they are engaged, and they are eager to serve. This bill is not about compulsion; it\u2019s about expectation. It is about recognising that civic duty continues beyond retirement and that our seniors have much to offer. As one constituent, Andrew, wrote to me: \u201CThank you so much, Carl, for getting on to this. It makes a lot of sense.\u201D I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00228ac5a03e673a4f4fbfff8897a6d843db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ac5a03e673a4f4fbfff8897a6d843db\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022de03544319574326a0ce3cea642b947d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022de03544319574326a0ce3cea642b947d\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 rawa atu koe ki a koe, Madam Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. May I begin by thanking the hard-working Justice Committee and the member who has brought this through the process, Carl Bates. It is a difficult thing to work through a law like this where there is, essentially, a judgment to be made about a line for the appropriateness\u2014in this case, for people to be the right age to make judgments in this way and perform a civic duty of sitting on juries. A number of opinions were heard from submitters, and this level which has been suggested here has ultimately met with the approval of the parties represented at the Justice Committee, and so I stand in support of it today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI want to make the point that when we think about civic duty, jury service is incredibly important to that\u2014that more and more cases are being heard by juries in a system for which it is difficult for people to seek timely justice. Our courts, at the moment, are very, very busy places and it is difficult for people to be able to access not only the system but also the precursors to that\u2014the right kind of advice. It\u2019s important that we all take the measures that we can in this House to enable people to seek that justice and to have their day and to be heard in the way that their rights enable them to be heard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThis is a bill where, when there is difficulty in fulfilling the numbers required for a jury duty trial, reducing the reasons that a person may be excused makes it easier for the Ministry of Justice to be able to fulfil those numbers in a jury and to be able to allow people to be heard in the way that they hope to be heard. This is a good measure to be able to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important for people to be assured that the member says it\u2019s not about compulsion but it\u2019s about expectation. I see this as an enabling provision. It\u2019s a provision that enables people between the ages of 65 and 72 to be able to sit and to have an automatic provision to be able to opt out. There is an expectation that they will be able to fulfil that function but, if they cannot fulfil that function, there are obviously ways for them to be able to remove themselves from that duty. This is also about making sure that we set a clear line in the sand around active participation in civic life for people up to the age of 76. I think most New Zealanders would be pretty surprised that it was set at 65. I think most New Zealanders have a reasonable expectation that older New Zealanders have all of the rights and access and expectations to be able to participate in civic life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI think of my dad. He\u2019s in his nineties. He is an incredible member of his community. He is an active member of his local democracy. If any of the Auckland councils are listening along, he likes to ring up and complain about his local issues\u2014they will know. That is the reality for ageing New Zealanders: they\u2019re very much a part of civic life and their communities around them. Being able to participate in jury duty in an unfettered way, where they are also expected to be able to sit at the table and that there is no presumption that they would not be able to do that, is important for them, and there is still a real contribution to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also relevant to note\u2014for anyone thinking about what the reasons for this bill are\u2014that there is a very low payment for most people who sit on juries. It doesn\u2019t necessarily reflect their lost wages. It doesn\u2019t even reflect the minimum wage. It is a small payment in a gesture of thanks for them to be able to participate in that way. It is a burden that often falls to people who can either afford to be there or who are retired and can do that and there\u2019s a lower opportunity cost to them. That is a feature of our justice system, which many, outside of the scope of the bill, would argue is a limitation on the rights of equal and fair justice. This is within the system at the moment, and to be able to address, in some small way, that limitation, having older New Zealanders who widen the pool of people who can possibly be called upon and can find themselves at the table and able to financially support themselves to be there, is a sensible move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWhen I think of the Manukau court in my electorate, it\u2019s one of the busiest courts in the country, and there is certainly a need there for more people who want to fulfil this duty, also a real need for more justices of the peace who can sit as magistrates in that court to be able to participate in that. Those older people who fulfil those roles are incredibly important to not only our justice system but the functioning of that community around Manukau and people\u2019s access to rights and faith in the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EFor those reasons, I\u2019m happy to support this bill and to be able to thank the Justice Committee once again for their work on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u0022f5bb776215bd4f649969aa127a7968ea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f5bb776215bd4f649969aa127a7968ea\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, thank you. I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to also support the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. Now, just to kind of cast our minds back to when this bill was introduced and the first reading: in the first reading, we did oppose the bill, but then we were interested to hear, in the select committee process, exactly some of the potential fishhooks that this does create. It particularly gives us an opportunity to consider with various stakeholders within the seniors area whether this is actually a reasonable bill to expect for our senior population. Just in terms of the select committee process, we did have a few submissions\u2014not all that many, but we did actually get some submissions from key stakeholders, who did provide some very, very helpful feedback.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EI think, in terms of the bill itself\u2014again, just a reminder that when we are looking at this bill, it provides that people over the age of 65, if summoned\u2014well, actually, now 72\u2014are no longer able to be automatically excused from jury service. However, it does mean that they\u2019re still able to be excused from jury service if need be, for various grounds. Part of that, in terms of the age\u2014we did have quite a big discussion during the select committee stage around whether the age of 72 is the most appropriate age. I think that was something that probably generated the most discussion within the Justice Committee. We did hear, helpfully, from the department in terms of some of the stats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EI think, overall, when it comes to this bill, the concerns that we have in terms of what it means in terms of the demographics, the make-up of our jury service, are still something that we are interested in and concerned about. One of the things that we wanted to check during the select committee was whether that would affect decisions within the judiciary system. Would that mean that, because every one of us carries a certain level of bias when we\u2019re looking at jury service\u2014what does that mean in terms of the natural justice process, when you\u2019re looking at this? And also, again, what does it mean for people over the age of 65, who rightfully should have been entitled to an automatic excuse, to be actually now called back or no longer having that as an option and having that bumped up to 72?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EOverall, the Green Party is happy with where this bill landed. We\u2019re really happy with the advice that we received during the select committee process. We think there are other ways and, again, other things that could be introduced and could be considered, in terms of the remuneration aspect when it comes to jury service, that, again, allow more people to be able to partake in jury service, particularly people who are younger. We understand the need for juries in general, but I think there are other measures that also should be considered alongside this. But, overall, this bill is something where we are happy with how it\u2019s landed and we\u2019re happy to support it in the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7c9844108694ceaac82da3745c40082\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7c9844108694ceaac82da3745c40082\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s somewhat of a surprise to be standing and speaking on this bill. I wasn\u2019t a member of the committee that examined it. Todd Stephenson had a great speech lined up for this, but the timing worked out that I got to stand up and deliver the speech, so it\u2019s going to be quite an interesting moment for the House to hear me talk about the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill, considering I wasn\u2019t on the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ELook, I think what we\u2019ve heard so far talking about the civic duty that being part of a jury is a core part of\u2014I think there has been a long and somewhat ivory tower discussion about whether juries are the best thing for our judicial system. Personally, I\u2019m a big fan of juries. I think there\u2019s a long history that\u2019s proven that it is a core part of the demos having a say in the way justice and law is created and dished out in our society, our country, and through our history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EAs Carl Bates has brought this bill to the House, being able to take advantage of the wisdom that age and experience has gifted to the members of our community who have made it past the age of 65\u2014I think taking advantage of that for the good of our country, our demos, our institutions, our democracy is only a good thing. As has been described in the media over the last certain amount of time, there are elements in the Electoral Act about making sure, if you\u2019re eligible to be on the electoral roll, it\u2019s important to do. It\u2019s not just because we need to know who and where people are for the important core function of voting in an election in this country but also so that we know who is on the electoral roll for the purposes of jury duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ENow, I would have liked to have heard, and I\u2019m sure I will hear in future stages of this bill as to how that interacts with the Electoral Act requirements once you\u2019re over 65, if you choose to be permanently off the jury list or on\u2014this is not a committee stage, but I look forward to hearing those from the member when he is in the hot seat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThere was another element, reading through this bill hastily as I have in the last little while, about raising the age from 65 to 72, and it\u2019s great to see the whole House behind this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022affaf809da334bfd8fcc26013c1f80fc\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll be in your prime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b06dbad20c264892a774190e48d83ff5\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you are in your prime there, Grant McCallum, so it\u2019s apropos to be speaking about that. The question that comes to mind is if the House\u2014I think it was Disraeli who talked how about how a conservative in the British system does things which are based on precedent from the past. It doesn\u2019t mean that you\u2019re not open to changing things, but you do want to make sure there is something to base that on; it\u2019s not just plucked out of thin air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThe committee reaching out, trying to find an age, or the member finding an age of 72, relating that to the retirement age for the Ombudsman\u2014Disraeli would say, \u201CWell, great. Fantastic. You\u2019ve found something in our history to attach something to, something to anchor it to, something to get a zip tie and link it together.\u201D But I wonder why we needed an age in the first place. It does seem like perhaps we could have got away with using the wise heads of over-72-year-olds, some of whom are in this House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d8b15314e12446ab8488b91e1b05264\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: You can still use them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022720bf55fdfce48e18f8564be9dba786b\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and you could still use them, but having an ability to choose exemption and not doing that part of the civic duty\u2014there are questions about that that I have. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad2ce0f65e1d4e9092a51f154988d804\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Presidents and Prime Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224009c73d3ba14bc3bb65eaf7786f6936\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: And Privy Councillors, right? Of course. It raises another question about the age. We have a system in New Zealand that goes back, and it is a generational inheritance\u2014that is our superannuation scheme. If the House has been so open to raising this age, I wonder about how the House might look at raising the superannuation age gradually, carefully, over time. It would be an important thing to make sure that our country is financially stable into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a08600e08624977ac4bd453ccd6c983\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Not sure all the coalition partners would like that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb1e3872845427f9bde3639279683b0\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m glad to hear I\u2019m getting support from the Greens over there on that proposal. It\u2019s a good thing to make sure we\u2019ve got some generational justice, as they would say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EI do wonder if this limit was really needed. There are wise heads that have sat around the Justice Committee, which I\u2019m somewhat envious that I do not get to partake in, considering the lofty intellectual discussions that they have. I don\u2019t get to be in the tower of the Justice Committee; I\u2019m in the square, perhaps, with the plebians out there building houses in New Zealand. I\u2019m very proud to be in that situation. The Transport and Infrastructure Committee is a great committee for that sort of discussion. I haven\u2019t had a chance to partake in the discussions around this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c80bf2319ba40048d819f3f46734b05\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: You can be an honorary member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022250a7ae2039a4883b7e1385ae21379db\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: An honorary member, Rima Nakhle says. Look, I appreciate that, Rima Nakhle, but there\u2019s a lot to be done in this House and select committee time is important time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ELook, I think that what we\u2019re going to see\u2014and New Zealanders over 65 are proud to be able to serve their community, proud to be able to stand and say, \u201CLook, I have built a life. I have built experience. I have something to offer. I am going to be providing for people who\u201D\u2014you know, I think about mothers I know who have said, \u201CLook, I don\u2019t have time for this jury duty.\u201D Perhaps there\u2019s a legitimate reason with a sick child or some such\u2014fathers who say, \u201CLook, I\u2019ve got my kids this week. I can\u2019t get in to jury duty. I\u2019ve got to provide that parenting this week.\u201D And older New Zealanders like grandparents who take kids on in the weekend sometimes or during the week so parents can go to work\u2014they might see this as another part of providing for their part as the elder leaders in our community to provide for the next generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThinking about the way that we can use that knowledge, that we can make sure that New Zealanders are contributing right through is an incredibly important part of what this bill is trying to do. I would like to once again congratulate the member Carl Bates for bringing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022500e41687e944f9da734ff00aa155721\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member from Whanganui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022223ca5ac1acb48969d10c39973b6bca8\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to get into that debate. The member has obviously shepherded it well through the Justice Committee, who have come to an agreement that this is the right thing to do, and I\u2019m happy to support it. Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf3489d636704b8faf124924529e8244\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf3489d636704b8faf124924529e8244\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to stand up on behalf of New Zealand First and take this call on this Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. Madam Chair, can I say that it\u2019s good to re-acquaint\u2014we had a good day out in the King Country on Monday, didn\u2019t we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eee15b365cff45cc933e9c009143ed67\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222bc36ecf1064982908c27e0ddf5ed1a\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014going around some of the\u2014not so good for the province, heavily impacted by the flooding event last week. Our thoughts also are going out to those in Canterbury, parts of the South Island, and the lower North Island here that are going through similar inclement weather events at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EIn terms of this bill, I\u2019d commend the member Carl Bates, and I know he has a legal background. I think it\u2019s a solid bill to be bringing forward, one that, actually, I think, if you look at it\u2014and I\u2019m sure I\u2019m not the only member in the House that thought, well, how is this still the case? It seems to make no sense at all why we would start excusing people over the age of 65. I\u2019m taking far more interest these days in superannuation bills and the like, as you get a little bit older. I would take a little bit of issue with Cameron Luxton\u2019s take on lifting the super age; I don\u2019t think that\u2019s going anywhere fast, but we\u2019re here. There\u2019s a good reason for that; people work pretty hard, especially those in manual labour. The challenge for us is to continue to grow our economy strongly so we can afford to have those that get to 65 retire with some dignity and some security in their earnings, particularly those that have gone through a life of manual labour, for which 65 is quite a threshold to get to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EAge cuts across a number of these bills when you get up to that 65. It is something that we do debate in this House across a range of pieces of legislation. This makes absolute sense, from New Zealand\u2019s perspective, to lift the threshold to 72 in terms of where our expectations lie. We know that our seniors make an incredible contribution to this country. The volunteer sector in New Zealand would collapse without the contribution of our seniors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5fcc84c8fd84c9abeaac78910e0557d\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: So would New Zealand First!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022085bf369f83f49b9a789aca58837f15a\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! I\u2019ve heard members of the National Party, in particular, talk about the wisdom and the experience of people over 65, so if they are members of New Zealand First, then you know that that\u2019s certainly playing out. But it\u2019s not just our members; we\u2019re thinking of everyone across the political spectrum. We think there is a contribution to make\u2014you know, those are the people at the prime of their lives in terms of their experience, their wisdom. If I was in that situation\u2014in the unfortunate situation of having to face a jury\u2014I think I would want a jury of experienced senior peers to bring their vast experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThe other thing: it could also, on the periphery, be a boost for the wool industry. The seniors are very big knitters, and I think a bit of time in the jury box could grow some demand for wool, as well. And of course, because they\u2019ll have a SuperGold card\u2014as long as we can get the timings of the hearings so that they can get there on their SuperGold card, their off-peak SuperGold card, I think that would be something that we should look into, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EIn terms of the select committee, the Justice Committee, it has been a busy committee over this course of Parliament. I think, without wanting to undermine the good work, this would have to be one of the simpler bills they would have seen\u2014one of the most common-sense bills they would have seen. It was interesting, though, when we get to the committee of the whole House, because Carl Bates, in his first speech in this second reading, did raise a number of issues that came through in the select committee, and particularly around those that want to serve into an older age and whether they\u2019re fit and competent, and maybe that\u2019s something that we can prosecute through that committee of the whole House stage as we go through this bill. So sometimes these simpler\u2014you can get a bit complacent about them, and then actually someone does come along and ask some really good questions. It\u2019s something that, if there is something there that you would like to bring to the House, Carl, I know New Zealand First would certainly look at that, because we\u2019re a party that absolutely has respect for our seniors for their contribution. And obviously, I mean, our leader the Rt Hon Winston Peters is certainly well past this threshold and still running rings around most, if not all, politicians in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003ESo, without further ado, we do support this bill. We\u2019ll continue to support it through to the committee of the whole House. We wish it well in that process. We will participate, and we commend it further to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022934251c5e4984cd0a34b81a81204a245\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022934251c5e4984cd0a34b81a81204a245\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Oriini Kaipari\u2014is someone going to take a call? Francisco Hernandez.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022 data-id=\u0022efcdad6fb31b4fa884eaa4b25b326d17\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efcdad6fb31b4fa884eaa4b25b326d17\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. This is a bill that, as my colleague Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan has said, we are now supporting. I won\u2019t elaborate that strongly on my speech.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EBefore I turn to the reasons why we do support this bill, I just wanted to wish the members a happy Filipino Restaurant Week. We went pretty wide in the previous speaker\u2019s contribution, going to the issue, and there will be some Filipinos that will be affected by this Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill, particularly to the ones who eat at the Wellington-based eateries of Little Manila, Lazy Juan, and Faithful Flavours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EOld people bring a lot of really valuable experience, so I think it\u2019s good that this will enable a wider range of participation. In our own local branch, we have a lot of members who are, you know, 72 and still very capable. I won\u2019t name them, because I might have misjudged their age; they might be younger than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f3b4d84811744de96b1442567b7741d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Very wise!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dbc30c796f24e31a461562f18d09516\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: Look, congratulations to the member Carl Bates on getting your bill drawn, and it looks like it will have unanimous support from the House. Well done. I won\u2019t labour this speech any further. Congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8a3b566d5ef43b1ac0e80dc4e950a47\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022685d49d9540146f0bb10c6c1b931352a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022685d49d9540146f0bb10c6c1b931352a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oriini Kaipara has decided to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022602\u0022 data-id=\u0022591e549baf0e40879821dda5426e2a50\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022591e549baf0e40879821dda5426e2a50\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Madam Chair. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori stands by its decision to oppose this bill. In listening to the k\u014Drero to my left and to my right, from experience having parents who are in the category\u2014the demographic group that is being spoken of, mid-60s\u2014in M\u0101ori communities, it\u2019s very, very rare nowadays to see many 70-year-olds turning up to the marae, coming to hui, actually out and about in the community. Many of them are very frail. The health system has failed a lot of our people, and especially the demographic group that has been referred to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003EThere are many reasons as to why Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori opposes this bill. Consultation with those that are being questioned, the 72-year-olds, where are they in the mix of consultation? I find it quite interesting to hear this bill being proposed by someone not in that demographic group but speaking for them. We\u2019re talking to excusals for 65-year-olds\u2014not everybody actually has equal health to be able to actually responsibly do the role justice. So on behalf of the M\u0101ori population who do suffer disparities in every shape and form actually being\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225df74244d62d4f45bcab9c06614f4a78\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t speak for all M\u0101ori!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c322da2748433db8224b5a6ead6f70\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t speak for all, I speak for T\u0101maki Makaurau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003EAs the MP for T\u0101maki Makaurau, I do know my people within the electorates, and there are many, many who would oppose this based on discrimination against everybody. This is a generalisation of everybody within the 65- to 72-year-old age group. It is putting a blanket response on everyone within the demographic without giving weight to the individual circumstances of these people. I speak for the people of T\u0101maki Makaurau and those, particularly, amongst M\u0101ori communities. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori is here to represent and speak for the voices of those who are marginalised, and this further marginalises many M\u0101ori people. That is the start, and that\u2019s where I\u2019ll end it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u00227c32b1e33f0c4412a0fcb853e1792e6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c32b1e33f0c4412a0fcb853e1792e6b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E I can\u2019t quite believe what I\u2019ve just listened to for the last 2\u00BD minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274d79364908b451d8ccb9ab1adcec40c\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: Because you\u2019re not in the M\u0101ori community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8e80d91d36a4969810b410bd5ad7e1f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, OK. The member has just yelled out, \u201CBecause I\u2019m not in the M\u0101ori community\u201D, I\u2019m incapable of potentially understanding any part of the argument that she just presented in her short contribution. I would say she talked about the potential impacts on M\u0101ori people who are aged between 65 to 72.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EIf she\u2019d actually read the legislation, she would know that, for example, if they had healthcare issues or issues of a similar nature, they still have the ability to apply to withdraw from being part of the jury process. It\u2019s in the legislation. It is literally in the legislation. You cannot say that because you\u2019re 66 years old and you\u2019re M\u0101ori, you shouldn\u2019t necessarily have to turn up and do your civic duty on a jury, which is a jury of your peers\u2014your peers of 11 other people on a jury of 12 from across New Zealand, M\u0101ori, non-M\u0101ori, P\u0101keh\u0101, European, Asian, Indian, Chinese, whatever it might be who make up that mix of people who serve on a jury. Yet that member has just stood up and said, \u201CNo, no, it doesn\u2019t work for 66-year-old M\u0101ori to serve on a jury.\u201D Had she actually read the legislation my colleague has put up here, she would know that if they were 66 or 67 years old, they would have the ability, if they have health issues or other issues that are in a similar vein, to say, \u201CI am unable to be a member on the jury.\u201D But had she read the legislation? Not a chance, not a chance at all, and it showed in that shameful two-minute contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI didn\u2019t plan to talk for 10 minutes on that member\u2019s contribution. I plan to actually talk about the good components that make up this legislation. This is really\u2014and I cannot believe a political party is opposed to it\u2014a really straightforward, sensible reform that reflects modern New Zealand. We are living longer in this country. People are living longer\u2014M\u0101ori are living longer\u2014and as such it is only right to adjust the age of responsibility for people to serve their civic duty on juries amongst their peers. By changing it from 65 to 72, it reduces bureaucracy and it improves jury diversity. Would you believe it? It improves jury diversity. And do you know what? I trust seniors to participate in their civic duty. If Grant McCallum can be an MP, I trust seniors to participate in their civic duty! Whether they\u2019re M\u0101ori or non-M\u0101ori, 66, 67, 68, 69, 70, 71, or 72, I trust that they can participate in their civic duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThe Justice Committee considered the legislation. We received 31 submissions on the bill and unanimously\u2014unanimously; Oriini Kaipara\u2019s own colleague from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014recommended that this bill pass. Your own colleague recommended that this bill pass. You should have a chat with your parliamentary colleague. Would you believe it? Now, Grant McCullum says, \u201CWho is this colleague?\u201D Who is this colleague? Oh, well, T\u0101kuta Ferris, admittedly. Now, admittedly, it\u2019s T\u0101kuta Ferris. But the Justice Committee examined the bill and unanimously recommends passing it, with practical transition provisions\u2014unanimously recommends that it pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThe current law is simple. Anyone aged over 65 or over who receives a jury summons can choose to serve or apply to be excused. If they apply to be excused solely on the basis of age, the registrar must grant\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213617031b7b04b589c2409827866a018\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s watching you, liking this? Does this do us any favours?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d30802f1514ec9a2917dfe8f94adad\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: See, this is the thing. This is the thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258a757a5e9bd42cbb916cfc92adb4514\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: One never knows who might be watching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852c5ff4e2a14b0bbe9f1bb5d1984d3b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: This is the thing, we get elected to Parliament to be legislators, right? To bring in legislation, to scrutinise it, to improve it. And then a member of the Labour Party, Arena Williams, says, \u201CWhat are you doing? What\u2019s the point? Why are you speaking? Why are you debating legislation?\u201D Oh, shock horror! Rule number one says that that is my job. That is my job. That is, literally, why we were elected to this place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5883d7e4bc54839b478a4fbbdb4ff0e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Order! Someone will be watching.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226406c0ae7b294efea3b79b6a318f2aac\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bd1351fea7342239c8c5f1539396894\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: All of you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022921aba03d4704bbd92c7a9b3a489efc7\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EAt the moment, if you are aged over 65 or over, you will be granted excusable by the registrar based on the fact that you are over 65, no questions asked, no assessment of circumstances. Age alone is sufficient grounds. This can either be for a particular occasion, under section 15(2)(aa) of the Juries Act 1981, or permanently, under section 15A(2). Many people over 65 receive a summons, tick the box saying, \u201CI\u2019m over 65, please excuse me,\u201D and that\u2019s the end of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThis bill, in the name of Carl Bates\u2014and he\u2019s done fantastic work leading it\u2014proposes two simple amendments. It changes 65 years to 72 years, in both of those provisions. That\u2019s it. That is it. Clean, simple, and straightforward\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7cd2713558a47328a5a421359503c8f\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: And unanimously supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227123002986849a5a8e930e64e3da575\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: And unanimously supported by all members of every political party represented in this House on the Justice Committee, so I cannot believe that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori would stand up and oppose a really simple, clean, and straightforward piece of legislation. I therefore commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00229840c40b59be454d93238286d6cbc8c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229840c40b59be454d93238286d6cbc8c6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted. The House is suspended until 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002234dd03aca53042f58bb9e85640940762\u0022\u003ESpeaker\u2019s Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226fe532f494674183a5d59df816519c5c\u0022\u003ECanterbury Local State of Emergency\u2014Removal of Proxy Vote Limit\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002270f4192678ba4c96a322313dd8dadac8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002270f4192678ba4c96a322313dd8dadac8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the weather situation around the country is getting worse and a local state of emergency has been declared for Canterbury. In order to assist members to be able to return to their electorates safely, parties have discussed removing the limit on proxy votes for the rest of this week. Therefore, I seek leave that the limit on proxy votes does not apply until the House adjourns on Thursday, 23 October and that Standing Order 146 be read accordingly. Is there any objection to that course of action? There is none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u00222698cd5bb65f47ce94cb93731caf6e4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222698cd5bb65f47ce94cb93731caf6e4b\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Chief Whip\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Mr Speaker. I just want to clarify the date. You did say the 23rd, and I\u2019m sure we\u2019re all happy with that, but I just wanted to make sure you\u2019re right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002209812fa23c474eeaa9335d56a46aaacb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002209812fa23c474eeaa9335d56a46aaacb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s 23 October, so\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be29937fa16c4262955d403cc0ba8074\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b45b3dbc0cee49d5b4dbeb94fc5f9305\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: At the end of tomorrow? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a104b54f2c184d2fa5f2b1fa898919cd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, and so the effect of what I\u2019ve just said is that there is no limit on proxy votes up until the close of play tomorrow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002202337936277d46c8adecdbb1c9e74659\u0022\u003EJuries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d07c81c7c5e34a0e8cca71566ea6d67d\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000588\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022 data-id=\u00225897bf035d27485da849edd1ad0dca68\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225897bf035d27485da849edd1ad0dca68\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. I want to make several points, and they\u2019re actually about the bill, which will be a bit of a shock to anybody listening to this debate. This is a bill\u2014thank you to Carl Bates\u2014that we have before us to extend the age that people can serve on juries. I want to start with the value of juries themselves. This was raised by one of the ACT Party contributors here who talked about the value of the jury. I\u2019ve been a lawyer most of my life, which meant that I couldn\u2019t serve on a jury, and now I\u2019m in this position, I probably can\u2019t either. If we go to 72, maybe I\u2019ve got a chance of serving on one. I\u2019d be very, very keen to be part of a jury because I think they\u2019re a really interesting institution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EI think it goes back to a time when I was part of a law-school class run by a guy called Bernard Brown, who was must have been one of the nicest professors that you could ever have. He was a legal historian. I remember him telling us about the early juries and how they came about. One of his favourite stories was to talk about how when you created penalties that were too severe, juries simply wouldn\u2019t find the person guilty. There were a lot of penalties at that point that included tarring and feathering, and in fact, juries would not find their fellow citizens guilty of these crimes because tarring and feathering seemed too severe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EIt was a really good lesson in staying in step with the norms and values of your society or never being very far apart. The jury told its own story about where it would settle in terms of justice. Some of us call that, I guess, common sense, but it\u2019s a process whereby people sit and they listen and they actually adhere, as part of their civic duty, to a set of rules that are about impartiality, about listening, fairness, listening, justice, listening, listening, and listening. They don\u2019t do it from a point of view of being on high, like a judge. They\u2019re not separated. They are accepting that they do this in equality with the person who is being tried, but they also do it in equality with the person who is the victim, and I think that\u2019s a really interesting part of the jury system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003ENow, I actually don\u2019t think that it\u2019s something that is for every situation. I think there are a lot of situations which are very harrowing. They require an expertise that we need to draw upon, but I think it\u2019s a really valuable part of our system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EI want to talk about something that is very connected with this bill and its ethos, which is about the value of our older people in our community, and this is a lesson I\u2019ve really had to learn as my parents have aged. My dad, like Arena Williams\u2019 father, and I think you\u2019ve heard from her\u2014by the way, Arena Williams\u2019 father is someone you just need to meet. He\u2019s absolutely amazing. He\u2019s electric, he\u2019s energetic, he\u2019s intelligent, and he is assertive. He\u2019s a lot of things that you\u2019d want on a jury, and he\u2019s in his 90s. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EMy dad is 94 this year, and he drives me nuts\u2014he absolutely drives me nuts. He drives me nuts because he is absolutely\u2014he has tenacity. He thinks he\u2019s in middle age, and he has no idea that this is called old age. He will not accept that. He does not live in Selwyn Village, where I would really love him to live. My mother has dementia and it\u2019s hard, and it would be better in some ways, from my point of view, that they lived in Selwyn Village down the road, which is an amazing rest home with bright, intelligent people. But he does live there, because he will not give up his independence, and I think about the way that he and my mother have taught me the value of respecting people\u2019s autonomy and their intelligence as they get older.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EWhen I was a lawyer, I had a case that I really remember. It was one of those things that just grated on me. It was a man who had been a CEO of a company, and he had got to 65 and somebody said, \u201CRight, you\u2019re out. You\u2019re retiring because we\u2019ve got a policy that says you\u2019ve got to go.\u201D I took the case because that was a breach of the law\u2014you can\u2019t discriminate on the basis of age. You used to be able to, so it was in his contract from years ago. There was a mediator involved in the situation. She said to him, \u201CHaven\u2019t you got better things to be doing with your time than working as the CEO of this company? Wouldn\u2019t it be good to do some other things and take a step back?\u201D, etc., and he said to her, \u201CLady, I can\u2019t even deliver pamphlets. Nobody will employ me to deliver pamphlets.\u201D That was the attitude of our society towards somebody with enormous experience and wisdom who wanted to work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003ESo we\u2019ve come a long way, I hope, from that. It would have been maybe 15 years ago that I did that case. You know, I hope that the mediator doesn\u2019t think the same thing that she did. I hope that most people don\u2019t, but I do think we have suffered from an ageism that really is not appropriate and it probably never was appropriate. But I know how valuable work is, and this law, again, reflects that. Isn\u2019t it strange that we did have a different rule for our judiciary? Isn\u2019t it strange that we allowed some people to progress? I mean, let\u2019s think about Ruth Bader Ginsburg. She was a justice of the Supreme Court in America and how old was she? We have these beautiful people who are bright and stimulate us and bring with them the wisdom of having been every age, and we still have this prejudice that says that they cannot participate in the society and can\u2019t contribute to something like a jury. So I think that it\u2019s incredibly important that we challenge these real prejudices of the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EThen, I want to spend the last part of my speech just actually talking about some of the people that I\u2019ve met while I\u2019ve been a member of Parliament\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b41bf8091f34b159b0e9404fb3d288d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272b728f87aa8437a99451897dc6afa84\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as it relates to this bill\u2014and the kinds of contributions that they would make to a jury. In this speech, I talked about how I had a group of people that I would love my father to join at Selwyn Village. The people that I have met at Selwyn Village are a community that is so thoughtful. I go along and I do these public meetings there where I meet with them and they ask me questions. I don\u2019t think I get better questions asked of me in any context than I get in Selwyn Village. I get the best questions because people are focused and they\u2019ve read well\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254b2f4b1632a48309d93c86bb3ea2ff9\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re engaged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e359a08d74c40138728a37b47edf4c0\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and they are super-engaged, and they have thought deeply about things. I remember\u2014and I think it was a point another speaker made about the pressures on people when they\u2019ve got little kids. Actually, I think it was Cameron Luxton, again, talking about this. I remember that time in my life when I had little kids and there were catastrophes and there were crises, and I was trying to work. There were all sorts of things. I remember the gym instructor saying, \u201CIf you could just get here three times a week and focus on this.\u201D, and I was thinking, \u201CYou\u2019d be lucky. I don\u2019t have that kind of time in my life.\u201D But when you\u2019re older, you get this privilege of, hopefully, a bit of time, and so this is a rich source of people for a jury. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EWe have people that I\u2019ve met in that context in that village who would ace a jury. They\u2019d be absolutely wonderful on it because they\u2019d be thinking about the situation with all that rich experience, and coming to it with a proportionality. I think that this bill has got a really strong, firm affirmation of a group of people who often feel that they are not being valued and whom we should value, and so I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u00229762770d3214418dba91bf5a859e1758\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229762770d3214418dba91bf5a859e1758\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It really is a pleasure to rise as we are delving into the midst of the second reading of the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill, a member\u2019s bill in the name of my good friend, as I mentioned in my first reading speech, Carl Bates, member of Parliament for Whanganui. I say \u201Cgood friend\u201D because he\u2019s one of these people\u2014like many of my colleagues in the class of 2023, as we say, and across the party that I\u2019m very blessed to be part of\u2014that are strong in their convictions but reasonable in their understanding and in the lengths they\u2019d go to understand different sides of situations. I want to commend you, Carl, in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EThis bill is a very interesting one. It\u2019s one of those bills\u2014which often happens with members\u2019 bills\u2014where we realise it\u2019s actually a very small change. I remember back to the member\u2019s bill that I was very privileged to have pulled out of the ballot and that was passed unanimously in the House with respect to victims of crime. It\u2019s a small change, but the ripple effect, I can confidently say, is quite colossal. When I think about this bill\u2014and we\u2019ve just heard from the speaker the honourable Helen White, who just sat down\u2014we\u2019re delving into the subject of our seniors and the value they add to different segments in our community. That\u2019s something that, for me, resonates quite profoundly and quite deeply because, from a young age, I would watch my mother take extra care with our seniors and go that extra mile. It\u2019s not because they\u2019re not capable, but it\u2019s because they\u2019ve lived through this world, they\u2019ve gone through different stages of our progress as a world, and they absolutely hold inherent mana in my opinion. That is why I really struggle when I hear people almost disregard the value\u2014not all people but some people can\u2014that our older, wiser, mature senior citizens can add to our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EThis bill, in the name of my friend Carl Bates, reinforces how valuable our seniors are and, actually, how much value they add when it comes to making decisions on the situations where people have transgressed the law. I reflected on how\u2014as I was thinking about what I\u2019d like to convey in my k\u014Drero today\u2014a lot of us at our ages\u2014yes, I look 27, but I\u2019m actually in my mid-40s. A lot of us, in our age, talk about how our parents have mellowed out\u2014a lot of us; many of us. I, as a Lebanese wahine, talk about that with my cousins. My dad is so mellow these days\u2014my dad was not mellow once upon a time\u2014and in this mellowness, what I find is that when we give our seniors an opportunity to contribute effectively in the administration of the law\u2014in a way, depending on how you philosophically look at it\u2014via jury duty, they\u2019ve had the wisdom of their years, the changes in the waves of them being mellow, not mellow, snapping, but in their mellowness, they never lose what\u2019s important. That\u2019s absolutely what I\u2019ve seen with my parents, my beautiful parents, my aunties, and my uncles. That\u2019s why I thank you, Carl Bates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EOther people might see this as a little change\u2014\u201COh, we don\u2019t need to invest much time into a change like this.\u201D No, we do. We need to invest time to reinforce how important it is to have the contribution of our older and wiser folk in the exercise of law. As we\u2019ve mentioned, my colleagues across the House have said in no uncertain terms that the bill essentially makes two changes to the Juries Act 1981. If we\u2019re going to put it into a nutshell, essentially the registrar\u2019s discretion and duty to excuse someone from jury service on particular occasions\u2014instead of it being automatic from the age of 65, we\u2019re changing it to the age of 72.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EI just think of my mother. My mother is 72.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022324f5660e79640d0b3c1ae684a565e91\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Seventy-two is the new 50.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231151b5d8cde48c598312d81ecaeacc1\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CSeventy-two is the new 50.\u201D, my friend Suze Redmayne says. My mother is 72, and as I mentioned in my first reading speech, she says to me she\u2019ll only retire when she dies. Once I was talking to her about a bill progressing in the House, and she said, \u201CWell, why don\u2019t you do this? Why don\u2019t you do that?\u201D I said, \u201CMum, that\u2019s actually what we\u2019re doing. You\u2019re so amazing.\u201D She left school\u2014well, she didn\u2019t choose to, but circumstances meant that she left school\u2014when she was 17. She would have loved to further her studies. Even without her studies\u2014we talk about lived experience\u2014the amount of knowledge and wisdom that my mother imparts to me and to many others. She loves jury duty. She tells me about the times that she sat on jury duty, and she\u2019s a very wise, intelligent, and beautiful lady. Thank you, my friend Carl. Thank you. I do commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EBefore I end, with your indulgence, Mr Carl Bates, and with your indulgence, Madam Speaker, and the indulgence of the House today, there was a funeral in Auckland, a funeral of someone that\u2019s only known to me minimally but is very important to my brother-in-law. I often talk about my Tongan, Kiwi, Aussie brother-in-law, Cyril Edwards. His paternal auntie passed away. The sadness is that she just turned 99 a few weeks ago. But Cyril and his siblings often talk about the wisdom of Auntie Janie. Her name is Janie, Seini Foliaki, and she was married to the late Leopino Foliaki. If you allow me, Madam Speaker, in terms of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f20b05e931e74435a95b4cdce9fa9159\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271d272e369934f5ea2ee5fd5d8bdf156\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014in terms of the beauty of the wisdom of age and what she\u2019s imparted. I\u2019d just like to share my condolences, if you\u2019d allow me, Madam Speaker, to the Foliaki family in what they\u2019re going through today and recognising that it\u2019s going to be put on the Hansard. Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to the memory of Auntie Seini and the wisdom that she\u2019s imparted. She showed everyone that, yep, you might be 99, but you still can add a lot of value to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EComing back to this bill\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ebf0202db4044838fd4b5a057024dd2\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Very nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0d51cac912440b98330f99de89b37ed\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. And thank you for your indulgence, Madam Speaker, and to my friend Carl Bates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EComing back to this bill, as we said, it just increases that automatic age from 65 to 72. Some of the positives of this are that we know that it will help in making sure that we can have more people to contribute to jury duty so that we can get through our cases in a quicker and faster way as well, because we\u2019d have that that extra seven years of people that fall into that pool for jury duty being able to contribute as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EI really appreciate the fact that, Carl, when you gave your first reading speech and indeed throughout the conversations in the Justice Committee, you gave a lot of thought into why the age of  72. The member came to the conclusion that it was a balanced midpoint where judges retire at the age of 70 but can serve until the age of 75, and the Ombudsman\u2019s retirement age, at this stage, is 72. That\u2019s how my colleague Carl Bates came to that midpoint of 72. I\u2019m excited about this going forward and what it means for the opportunities it continues to open for our senior citizens, who we admire so much and we thank so much. Again, Aunty Seini Foliaki, may your soul rest in peace. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022 data-id=\u00224ae5b0801b4b4351aca35079255505ab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ae5b0801b4b4351aca35079255505ab\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. As has been well canvassed in this House here this evening, Labour supports this bill. I\u2019d like to take the opportunity to congratulate Carl Bates for seeing an issue and bringing it forward, a perfect example of what members\u2019 day can do and bills that identify where there are issues and do something to fill them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EOne of the things I would like to note is that many times you don\u2019t really know until you get to that select committee process. As this is a second reading speech, I just wanted to comment that I have read through the submissions that were presented at select committee, and you can see from that that most of the select committee submissions did agree that there was an issue here, that the courts are being pressured at the moment, and that this would go some way to alleviate them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EI also noticed Age Concern New Zealand\u2019s feedback. It does relate to what has been said here and what I have heard here this evening that the way that society sees ageing now has changed, in that we\u2019ve moved to a positive approach to ageing that maybe a decade or more ago we didn\u2019t see quite like we see now. It is important, as Age Concern New Zealand say in their submission, that this bill recognises and promotes that positive ageing and also promotes the value of older people in making decision making in such a way as being representative on the juries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EThe other point that I thought was really interesting in that particular submission was that they said that this goes a long way to increasing the diversity. I think that is really important because 65 isn\u2019t that old and doesn\u2019t bring that level of diversity, if that\u2019s the cut-off point. So I am really supportive of anything that will increase diversity and will increase the chance that the Ministry of Justice will be able to fill those juries a lot easier because there will be a lot less people who will be able to give those excuses over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003ESo, as I\u2019ve said, Labour supports this bill and we look forward to seeing its progression through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022 data-id=\u00228d2a29d3884a4661b40e7f44b51eb477\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228d2a29d3884a4661b40e7f44b51eb477\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA (National\u2014New Lynn):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m happy to be able to stand and contribute to the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. As a fan of jury movies, it is a very interesting topic for me. My top three would be 12 Angry Men, Runaway Jury, and Juror #2. Each of the movies show how the stress and anxiety brought about by jury duty impacts on the jurors themselves. So it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225aaa8393173a4d2db173815d45017cef\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: 12 Angry Men\u2014that\u2019s another good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3562e6a0e24a879e2b7e389892f1f2\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dec4928da02f48d89de32666de9d6681\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: And the TV series The Twelve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a5c51ec30c41ebbf48be0ae574feab\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and so there is much to be said about allowing jurors who are more senior in age to be able to contribute still. I must say that there are practical reasons to this change from age 65 to 72. The practical reasons include reducing the need for having to issue more summons, as people aged 65\u2014who are, at this stage, still given jury summons\u2014will ask for excusal at age 65. They have much more to give, and allowing the age to be increased to 72 will allow that. Also, as the member across has mentioned, allowing more people of age to perform in the jury duty gives diversity to the pool and increases the number that\u2019s available for the pool. The ageing population of New Zealand also demands that. It\u2019s a sign of the times. We\u2019re also getting to live far longer and far older.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003EAlso, I wanted to take this opportunity to mention that, as my colleague Suze Redmayne had mentioned earlier, actually, which was that the official thing is that 50 is the new 40, and so on\u2014she referenced and so on and so on. I must say, especially to my younger colleagues, that everything feels the same after 40\u2014it feels absolutely the same. Probably there would be some differences, like whiter hair and some other little bits and pieces, but it\u2019s largely the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s much to be said about being 65 and older. Taking it from my point of view and my own observations, there\u2019s much more serenity and far less anxiety, and there\u2019s much more calm, and far less rash judgment. These are really good qualities for a juror, and this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d77d9b96b0c847608e38a9e7ca0e75b2\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Life experience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284e2a5315f624e0aac9b5b003980f904\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, life experience\u2014it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280e97ecb4d6f49d0a1e1eb32c8beba84\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, lived experience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eae59f3e82d4436096e2ee11043f94d6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd0393b23e154000ad258853cf964eab\u0022\u003EPAULO GARCIA\u003C/span\u003E: Lived experience\u2014it is. As I\u2019m sure my peers in this House and my more senior colleagues would agree, lived experience allows for a far greater and more balanced judgment of the facts of any case that may be before a juror. I think that it is an opportunity that should not be ignored, and a space of humanity that should be given the opportunity to carry on and contribute. For these very reasons, I absolutely commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022 data-id=\u00223d1be688873b49d8952c922b4d8f717b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223d1be688873b49d8952c922b4d8f717b\u0022\u003ERACHEL BOYACK (Labour\u2014Nelson):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Speaker, it\u2019s a pleasure to take a short call on the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill, but can I just say I\u2019m really hoping and very excited that tonight we finally get to the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill, Mr Brewer. That would be very exciting. We\u2019ve been waiting for that for a while, so I\u2019ll keep this call short in the interest of trying to get to your bill, good sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill. As has been spoken about tonight, it\u2019s a sensible bill that will make it more straightforward for older members of our society to participate in a jury. It\u2019s no secret to New Zealanders that in my community of Nelson, we do have a higher proportion of older people, many of whom, upon their retirement, continue to contribute in a number of voluntary ways\u2014volunteering for organisations, sitting on committees, and actually being able to undertake jury service is the type of contribution that I know a lot of older people in Nelson really appreciate being able to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EJust to be really clear, the current law doesn\u2019t preclude anyone over the age of 65 from participating in a jury already, but what it does do is it allows somebody over the age of 65 to be able to excuse themselves, whereas that age is now going to be lifted to the age of 72. So what this will mean is that there is a bigger pool of people who will be required to participate in a jury. That is a good thing, because we know that there\u2019s a real pressure on our court system, and often part of that pressure is actually having the availability of jurors to sit on a jury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI also just note that the Justice Committee did make a couple of small amendments to the bill with some savings provisions, particularly, to ensure that when the bill has its commencement and receives its Royal assent that it doesn\u2019t become retroactive to people who have already been issued their first notice for being on a jury, their first summons, so that was a sensible position from the select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242b5ebdb6f674431af475c66a771f231\u0022\u003EI congratulate the member on getting the bill this far. Labour is very pleased to support it, and I\u2019m really looking forward to Mr Brewer\u2019s bill later. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad4aeb22631e4d1397c227adf39a967b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad4aeb22631e4d1397c227adf39a967b\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8237e86f4114241a19a79ea570c20a3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, you weren\u2019t on my list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253311fb66c8f48668284838b2b139c79\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: I know, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EI\u2019m just taking a call because I really did want to actually take a call on this bill, Madam Speaker. And it\u2019s probably something you\u2019re not going to need to worry about for a long, long time, about the age of excusal for juries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bb9288961d048228622442f56894db3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Because I\u2019m already 72, you mean?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223759659c6394492eb770247ef6dac3b7\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no, because you\u2019re so young. You\u2019ve got obviously decades ahead of yourself. But I just also wanted to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238997e91a18646f5913f4c364b523039\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: As it relates to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5ff5cbf23641adbbf3f98354f1f897\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014as it relates to this bill, yes\u2014say to Mr Bates, congratulations on progressing this bill to the second reading. I know it\u2019s quite exciting having your bill drawn out of the tin and then taking it through the process. And again, like some of the other members who have spoken here tonight I was lucky enough to be on the Justice Committee as we\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b81499319d24e0590841fe2af8861b5\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Hard-working!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef0bc05e8da84d4eb4c5ef694e372118\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hard-working Justice Committee, you have no idea\u2014took this bill through the process and, you know, again, it is actually really up for the member in charge of a member\u2019s bill to actually do the hard work. The select committee is obviously there to examine the legislation, can take submissions, but you actually, as a member in charge of a member\u2019s bill, actually have to do the hard work yourself\u2014to talk to other political parties, talk to other members on the select committee, and try to reach some consensus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EAgain, I think it\u2019s just an art that we\u2014or something we just need to remember, that just because your bill\u2019s been drawn, it doesn\u2019t actually mean the select committee\u2019s going to do all the work, because it doesn\u2019t have the same vested interest as the member in charge does. So I want to congratulate Mr Bates on actually shepherding this bill through and having those constructive conversations. And look, we did look at a lot of different issues. I know Mr Bates might have been slightly infuriated when I said, \u201CWell, let\u2019s just get rid of the age entirely. Like, I just don\u2019t know why we have an age restriction at all.\u201D But, you know, I am in ACT, and we\u2019re a little bit into freedom and trying to remove regulations and rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EBut look, we worked through what would be appropriate. We looked at different compromises as a committee. We obviously took submissions\u2014and again, we did actually have some submissions on this bill, not thousands, but we did have some submissions and some thoughtful reflection on what this would mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EAgain, I think the other thing, which other members have mentioned tonight, is I think it\u2019s also an acknowledgement that older New Zealanders actually can contribute to our justice system and play a really important role. The wonderful thing about the age we live in\u2014I\u2019m very positive about where the world is going and the actual hope for future generations. I like to say to my friends, you know, I do have some friends and acquaintances who are around 50, but I like to remind them they\u2019re only halfway there. The life expectancy for people will get longer and longer and they will need to continue to think about the ways that they can contribute to society. Obviously, jury duty is a very important way to contribute to our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003ELook, we\u2019ve done some wonderful things in Government in trying to actually address court timeliness, but when jury trials are required, we actually need people to serve on those juries. Having a slightly larger pool of New Zealanders that can actually participate is super important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EI think the other thing I found really interesting was with the justice officials in the Justice Committee. They actually gave us a lot of information about the actual practicalities about how the balloting system works, how they actually get the pool of jurors, and, again, some of the changes they\u2019re looking to make so that people aren\u2019t inconvenienced by having to turn up and present themselves from jury duty and hang around and wait there. They\u2019re actually looking at some more modern techniques which actually will support what Mr Bates has done here, in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003ESo, you know, I think a lot of that was really informative to the committee as we worked through the issues, because changing the age is just one thing; we wanted to make sure it actually works for people, and the mechanics of it and how juries are selected. People are obviously picked at random, and then they\u2019re rung up and said they have to\u2014or sent a letter actually, I think\u2014come in. But there are ways they can also call to see if they do need to show up. And yeah, it was just really interesting to understand that process, and also how they\u2019re looking at modernising it, which again will go in parallel to this change that\u2019s being made around the age of excusal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EI think it was a very constructive process. I think we\u2019ve reached a really good compromise\u2014or a consensus, actually, is the word I would use\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229346b240f26b458d866d34254d9f425b\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Unanimous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f722b5645e547609ad4cd33b16cea6a\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Unanimous consensus as a committee around the age. And yeah, I just think it was a really great example of the member in charge diligently working away, making sure it was an issue where we actually could make a change\u2014it wasn\u2019t too big in scope\u2014building a consensus, examining the issues. And we really did feel that we were able to return this bill to the House with our\u2014obviously\u2014comments. We only made one, I think, minor\u2014a couple of minor amendments just to make sure that the transitional provisions, etc., and other Acts were covered off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EI really, yeah, want to commend the member and also all those others on the Justice Committee, people who made submissions. I will be commending this to the House on behalf of them. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a2b2e100283c46f3b139c04652b9e916\u0022\u003EPoints of Order\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022af15496f394a4bc9a8f6c42567305954\u0022\u003EMembers\u2019 Order of the Day No. 1\u2014Reinstatement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022 data-id=\u0022cf20eac4cd6a4aa1873ed2ffc4b27195\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cf20eac4cd6a4aa1873ed2ffc4b27195\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave for member\u2019s order of the day No. 1 to be reinstated and set down for second reading immediately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00229f9c8069caf749c5b8d568e421fc0344\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f9c8069caf749c5b8d568e421fc0344\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that course of action. Is there any objection? Leave is not granted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229088491d387545128e5cfdf2907f611e\u0022\u003ELife Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea6f7c27ccf9412f81ee9fda11758563\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e192164f53b1496a874ec2154980e7d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e192164f53b1496a874ec2154980e7d4\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege to speak as sponsor of this bill. The sea, lakes, and rivers are part of who we are\u2014our lifestyle, our community, our economy, and our culture\u2014but that proximity also carries risk, and, all too often, that risk falls upon our children and young people. New Zealand\u2019s drowning rate is tragically high\u2014sadly, the data tells us as much. Drowning has been cited as the third-highest cause of unintentional death in New Zealand for children up to the age of 14. Our overall fatal drowning rate is among the worst in the developed world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThe Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill aims to reduce that risk in a straightforward, practical way. It makes the wearing of life jackets compulsory for anyone under 15 years of age while on board recreational vessels 6 metres or less in length. This is not a sweeping change or radical reform, but it is one that\u2019s overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThe current rules are inconsistent across every region in New Zealand thanks to different unitary and regional by-laws. They are inconsistent, can be confusing, and hence ineffective. Not only is it that the by-laws are inconsistent across the country, we\u2019ve now got the situation where many territorial local authorities require the mandatory wearing of life jackets at all times for everyone but our country\u2019s pertinent maritime rule made under the authority of the Maritime Transport Act is now more permissive than most regional by-laws, and, I would argue, below Kiwis\u2019 expectations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EMaritime Rules Part 91 requires that all recreational vessels carry life jackets for every person on board, but it doesn\u2019t mandate that children wear them at all times. Yes, wear them at heightened risk and on a vessel less than 6 metres, but skippers still ultimately hold the discretion and judgment under Maritime Rule 91. The law, as it is, ultimately leaves it to skipper discretion. Sad news stories over many years show us that discretion doesn\u2019t always lead to safety. Even the most well-meaning boatie can sometimes get things wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the bill\u2019s former sponsors, former National MP Alfred Ngaro, as well as current MP for the North Shore and now Minister, the Hon Simon Watts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThis bill has strong sector support from the likes of Maritime New Zealand, Water Safety New Zealand, Coastguard New Zealand, and Drowning Prevention Auckland, who have all called for stronger requirements around wearing of life jackets. I want to thank each of these organisations for taking the time to meet with me and outline the critical issue of water safety. I acknowledge the incredible work that they do in keeping Kiwis safe on the water every single day. Water Safety New Zealand tells me that improving life jacket use is one single action that can significantly reduce our drowning burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EPut plainly, life jacket use being left to chance or left to personal discretion is putting people\u2019s lives at risk. This bill simply puts in place a clear and consistent nationwide rule: if children are under 15 and are on a small boat, they wear a life jacket. Wearing a life jacket shouldn\u2019t be optional for a child on a small recreational vessel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ECapsizings, collisions, and weather changes can be unpredictable or sudden. There\u2019s no time to reach for a life jacket once you\u2019re already in the water. Last year alone, Maritime New Zealand was notified of 17 deaths, of all ages, involving recreational craft. The 2024 numbers not wearing a life jacket have yet to be confirmed, given ongoing investigations, but what we do know is that life jackets would have saved several last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI also spoke with Coastguard New Zealand. Sadly, it is volunteers from organisations like Coastguard who have to confront the trauma and reality when something goes wrong in the water. Let\u2019s not lose sight of the fact that behind every fatality is a family and a community left with devastating loss.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThe scope of this bill is limited to those under 15, which is tied to the minimum age which someone can legally skipper a boat. I acknowledge this bill naturally raises wider questions of universal use, which have already been put to me by those involved in the sector. This is certainly worthy of further select committee investigation. That is, should all Kiwis in small boats be required to wear life jackets? But that is not what we are voting on tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EDifferent definitions of the bill will also need to be addressed, noting that it\u2019s critically important that life jackets are not only worn but are fit for purpose, maintained, and properly fitted. I note the existing exceptions in the maritime rules for surfboards, sailboards, wind surfers\u2014provided a wetsuit is worn, supervised sporting events, and commercial rafting are all preserved. This bill reflects those exceptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThe Transport and Infrastructure Committee will also need to examine and scrutinise what a fitted life jacket is, realistic access to life jackets, determine whether the named exemptions are sufficient and appropriate, and consider the role of education and enforcement. This is about protecting children, plain and simple; just a straightforward rule to protect children on the water and grow a positive culture of life jacket wearing going forward this century. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EWe teach our kids to wear seatbelts in a car. We make them wear helmets on bikes. Wearing a life jacket on a small boat should just be as obvious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ESurveys have shown that the overwhelming number of Kiwis want our children and life jackets on small boats. In fact, most Kiwis already think they are already mandatory nationwide, reflected by the fact that most Kiwi kids are already in life jackets when out in the open water with family and friends. This bill simply codifies what many regional councils already have in place; it codifies what most families already put in practice; and it codifies what almost every Kiwi, rightly, expects is already happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI want to just reflect on Water Safety New Zealand again. They gave me this quote: \u201CThis legislation sends a clear message about the culture we need to help New Zealanders make the right decisions on water. Drowning data tells us that up to 20 lives can be saved every year if the rules were clear and if everyone wore a life jacket.\u201D That\u2019s Water Safety New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThis bill will give a clear, consistent, nationwide rule, keeping our kids safe on the water. I commend the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill to the House, and ask that all parties in this House support it to select committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00223eed6a3957984bc6aba4f531b6575994\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223eed6a3957984bc6aba4f531b6575994\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022 data-id=\u00227e1fa35f23e84506bd0f118621b24a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e1fa35f23e84506bd0f118621b24a3c\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou i t\u0113nei p\u014D. T\u0113nei te mihi ki te mema n\u0101na t\u0113nei pire, a Cameron Brewer, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. Kei te t\u016B awau m\u014D te P\u0101ti Reipa ki te tautoko i t\u0113nei pire i t\u0113nei p\u014D. The spirit of support and mahi tahi!\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Madam Speaker, indeed greetings to all of us tonight. I would like to acknowledge the member whose bill this is, Cameron Brewer; greetings. I stand for the Labour Party to support this bill tonight. The spirit of support and cooperation!]\u00A0\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ETo me, it\u2019s a no-brainer that we support this bill. I had one of those idyllic childhoods you dream of these days, where we spent all day in the river when we weren\u2019t at the sea. You\u2019d spend all day at the river until your mother yelled out to get home, well after dark. There were some exploits: whatever could float, we\u2019d drag it down to the river, and that was our fun. Often, swimming under branches of the willow trees in the Poroporo River\u2014which was a shallow river, so it didn\u2019t feel that dangerous; jumping on logs; if you were flash, you had an inflatable tube of some sort. While it was great fun, in hindsight, I do look back with gratitude that none of us lost our lives taking such risks while enjoying fun. I\u2019ve got to say, sometimes I think kids today need to get out and have a little bit more fun rather than doing it virtually, but maybe one day they can sit there wearing their life jackets while they\u2019re playing virtual reality or whatever you do these days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThe loss of lives is nothing to be scoffed at, and it\u2019s something no one in this House wants to see. Under-15s wearing life jackets is a wonderful notion, especially being brought up on part of the beautiful Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, which traverses the whole eastern seaboard of the North Island, where often people feel so familiar with their shoreline\u2014they feel so familiar with their beach that they are a bit relaxed and take unnecessary risks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EMy only query about this is the affordability for life jackets. A good quality life jacket is not cheap, and so we need to think about how we make those things accessible to wh\u0101nau, because everybody\u2019s life is valuable and no price should be put on that. We don\u2019t want any barriers to safety. We don\u2019t want people picking up, you know, \u201COh, your turn with a life jacket\u201D, \u201CYou\u2019re in the most risk at the moment\u201D\u2014and the member whose name this bill is in is nodding approvingly, which I absolutely appreciate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ENow, just in the spirit of jest, while we do support this bill, I just want to say, oh, wh\u0101nau, I hope you don\u2019t need to get your life jacket repaired, because that bill didn\u2019t get passed because the Nats didn\u2019t let it get heard tonight. So if you get a good quality life jacket and you need it repaired, too bad, you\u2019ll probably have to send it to the manufacturer. But hey, hey, hey, let\u2019s stay friends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D r\u0101, because we are a nation that has beautiful beaches and access to beautiful rivers, we want that culture to continue and we do want our wh\u0101nau to be safe, especially our tamariki, who, hopefully, will be good role models for their parents to wear life jackets and their grandparents to wear life jackets. So I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022253a646b11e54d1aad7b546fdd58a875\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022253a646b11e54d1aad7b546fdd58a875\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I rise to support this bill to the select committee. I agree with life jackets on small boats. It\u2019s like seatbelts, and it\u2019s regulation that will save lives. When I\u2019m in a car, whether I\u2019m a passenger or I\u2019m driving, I wear a seatbelt. On my kayak, on rivers or seas, I wear a life jacket. I\u2019m a member of a couple of kayaking groups. The Wellington Sea Kayak Network practises assisted rescues and also self-rescues and we all wear our life jackets. However, I have some reservations, some of them alluded to by the member introducing the bill, Cameron Brewer, about age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EI want to use an example, and I want to acknowledge the loss and the pain of the wh\u0101nau involved. I do want to refer to this particular Auckland example. In 2022, there was the Clarks Beach boating tragedy, 6 November 2022. Some people will be remembering that next month. None of the five people on the 4.8-metre boat was wearing a life jacket when it was struck by two waves in short succession and capsized in Auckland\u2019s Manukau Harbour a short time later. Ten-year-old Ryder Ferregel was wearing a life jacket when he went out, but it was ill-fitting, it was riding up, so he was allowed to take it off. By the end of the day, after hours\u2014just imagine those hours of clinging to the overturned hull\u2014Ryder and his mother, Gemma, had drowned. As the member said, there are still many drownings in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EIt wasn\u2019t just a 10-year-old that drowned; it was his mother that drowned as well. I really am concerned that if this bill goes through with the title Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill, we will be advised that changing the age will not be within the scope of the bill. I really hope that the member has got good advice on that. There are already some regions where it is compulsory for any age to wear a life jacket. I think the logic would be that we\u2014whether it\u2019s 6 metres, 5 metres, 7 metres, we\u2019ll hear about what the length should be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EI think the other thing that\u2019s interesting in this bill, as it\u2019s proposed, is that a 15-year-old can decide a matter of life and death for themselves. Yet the parties on the other side of the House, at the moment at least, think a 15-year-old can decide life or death, a 16-year-old can get married and can pay tax, but they can\u2019t vote. I\u2019ve just been at a most interesting democracy conference, partly led by vote 16. But, before I\u2019m reminded, I\u2019ll get back to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6a7be48e972482596b576fe0dbffc0d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Fantastic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022052e53b74cd445d9aeb1ff5437396280\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. There are some issues of funding, as was alluded to by my Labour colleague, but it\u2019s not just about funding the life jacket itself; there are some issues about funding Coastguard, funding kayak safe courses, funding school pools, funding education and enforcement. There are a lot of different things that we could do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EOf course, local government does a lot of work in water safety and pools and swimming, but please don\u2019t make this another unfunded mandate that regional councils are required to enforce without any support from central government. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022639d7fe7d22a4869a89e50bf0d16a1dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639d7fe7d22a4869a89e50bf0d16a1dc\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. No one in this House wants to confront the worst kind of tragedy, the death of a child. When a young person drowns, the pain ripples through families, schools, and entire communities. New Zealand\u2019s drowning statistics remain deeply saddening, yet amongst the pain there is progress. Even as our population grows, the overall trend in child drownings is falling. One policy in particular has played a clear role: the fencing of swimming pools. It addressed a well-defined risk and reduced death, especially amongst toddlers. It was a focused response to a real problem and it worked. I suspect the success of that policy vote motivates those who support this bill. After all, who amongst us does not care deeply about the safety of our children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThe bill before us today mandates that every child under the age of 15 must wear a life jacket at all times when on a recreational craft less than six metres long. It is well-intentioned, but good intentions are not enough. Let us turn to the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EI ask the House: last year, how many children drowned who would have been covered by this bill? None. In 2023, none. Over the past decade, from 2014 to 2024, there has been only one such case. It occurred in 2022 and it was a tragedy. In that instance, the child had initially been wearing a life jacket but removed it with the skipper\u2019s permission. That decision was a fatal error. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ECrucially for this debate, it was already illegal under the existing law. The skipper was charged and pleaded guilty to manslaughter. There were numerous other safety failures that day, which I don\u2019t have time to detail, but there is no guarantee that this bill would have prevented that death. At most it may have made a difference in one incident in 10 years, and even of that I\u2019m very doubtful. At the end of my speech, I intend to table documents affirming the stats I have just provided for the benefit of all members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThis bill is a solution in search of a problem. Worse, it creates new problems of its own. When the Government overrides the judgment of parents, it is not a trivial step. In cases of neglect or abuse, intervention is necessary, but in a free society, that must be the exception, not the rule. Parents know their children\u2019s abilities. They understand the risks of their environment. They are often best placed to judge when it is safe to loosen the reins or when to insist on a life jacket and when to allow a child the joy of freedom under supervision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThis bill doesn\u2019t target bad parenting. It doesn\u2019t respond to a pattern of preventable deaths. It imposes a one-size-size-fits-all rule on every boating family in New Zealand. It says, in effect, that the Government always knows better, regardless of conditions, child maturity, aquatic activity, or parental supervision. ACT believes that approach is wrong. We believe children should wear life jackets in risky conditions, but on a still day, anchored on a shallow bay, with parents nearby, should you really be criminalised for lying on the deck without a life jacket or for jumping off the boat to cool off? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003ESome will argue that such exemptions can be sorted out in select committee, but those exemptions already exist under the current law. The law today allows for judgment, supervision, and adaptation to local context. This bill takes away that flexibility. It substitutes rigid rules for human discretion. It reflects a fundamental mistrust of parents and a disconnect from the lived experience of boating families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EUndeniably, life jackets save lives, but so does common sense; so does education; so does a society that values both freedom and responsibility. We should promote safety by informing and equipping families, not criminalising everyday choices. We should encourage good parenting, not presume its absence. Let us not confuse action with genuine outcomes. The tragedy of child drownings cannot be solved by symbolic gestures that ignore the evidence and impose blanket mandates. This House should stand for evidence-based policy, not reflective overreach. I commend the member for his concern and congratulate him on having his bill drawn; however, ACT cannot in good conscience support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EPoint of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to table two documents, one from Maritime New Zealand and one from Water Safety New Zealand, showing a breakdown of drowning statistics from 2014 to 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8b1ea5cd8974ddb9ed9865ade72510e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Is that information publicly available?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022510c0f4d397e424ba4ec4ce4b358852c\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON\u003C/span\u003E: No, they\u2019re not publicly available. One is an official information response from Maritime New Zealand and the other is data provided by Water Safety New Zealand, produced after an inquiry from me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc82cd9a3a494de9aac2b2e997988dc0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022 data-id=\u00223df8527e1e0543bb9dac66a763c2bb32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223df8527e1e0543bb9dac66a763c2bb32\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in favour of life jackets for children and young persons. To mandate life jackets for children under 15 years on recreational craft of 6 metres or less and to require sufficient, appropriately sized life jackets on larger vessels all seems to fit within maritime law and what we\u2019re used to doing, especially on larger vessels when you\u2019re the skipper. But I note that also, with my boat, which is about 5 metres long so it fits within the under-6-metres, that I actually become the skipper on that day and it\u2019s my responsibility for the safety of my crew.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EI thoroughly enjoyed the examples that have been put before us tonight by members on both sides of this debate, and I respectfully admire Cam Luxton for putting his libertarian view towards this bill. However, New Zealand First likes pragmatic legislation, and this bill is just that. I\u2019m pleased to take this opportunity to speak to the first reading of the bill, and I acknowledge the member for taking the time to draft this and address a clear safety concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EWe support this bill\u2019s intent to mandate life jackets for under 15s on small craft. However, I think of my own experience and it gave me a chance to reflect on my holiday experiences and boating, and my mates that go fishing and the like, and boating and playing around in the harbour. I have keen respect for water and movement of water and what it means for you, having been a lifelong surfer and fisherman. And so I get the feeling, and I had to reflect on some of the behaviours that I see amongst all of my mates whilst we\u2019re on holiday. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EI know the pressure that\u2019s involved to race to that boil-up where the kingies and the birds are working and there\u2019s so much excitement going on. The kingies are running and hitting that bait ball and you know damn well, if you get there on time, drop your line, get in the way, you\u2019re going to be feeding the wh\u0101nau for the next couple of days. You know it\u2019s now or never. You\u2019re going to miss it. You\u2019ve got to go\u2014but no. Take two or three minutes. Get those life jackets on, because I\u2019ve seen what happens when your boat runs against the tide and the wind is going the other direction or it\u2019s moving really, really fast and you get crossed up, or you\u2019re sitting in your boat and all of a sudden you\u2019ve got three lines going off all at once. It\u2019s chaos, and we\u2019ve got to hit them because we\u2019ve got to catch every one of those fish, right? We can\u2019t let any one of them go. And there\u2019s the problem: we forgot to put the life jacket on and we\u2019re bumping kids out of the way or we\u2019re getting in front of each other or the chain gets wrapped around the nose or the tail, or your line gets wrapped around, or there\u2019s a bronze whaler chasing up one of your fish and you absolutely have to get it on board before that\u2019s taken.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EI really understand this. Seeing how quickly we can move from being in control to being out of control and at the mercy of the ocean made me think seriously about how we should be doing everything we possibly can to change our behaviour as skippers, to look after the people that are on our boats. I will admit I was one of those that was in the boat and I was out there and I was chasing. I reflect on this and I thank Cam Brewer for pushing this bill through, and we commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u002217b8c3e710754441bf66929e7da2c84f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217b8c3e710754441bf66929e7da2c84f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just point out to the member, when he\u2019s referring to another member, to use their full name? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022306d10427747428bada7d203e4f30945\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022306d10427747428bada7d203e4f30945\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise\u2014slightly earlier than I anticipated\u2014and support my dear colleague Cameron Brewer\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge you, Cameron\u2014good things come to those who wait, and Cameron has waited some months in this House to have this bill read a first time. It\u2019s a pleasure to support this bill. Well done, mate. Good on you for having this drawn from the member\u2019s ballot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EI wish to also acknowledge the previous MPs who took this bill up in previous parliaments, Alfred Ngaro and Simon Watts. I wish to thank them for initially bringing this to the attention of the House. I also wish to acknowledge the dissent that we\u2019ve had here today from the ACT Party. I\u2019ve listened intently to your speech, Cameron Luxton, and while I disagree, I really respect that within a coalition we can have these types of debate on principle and on policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EWe are here today for a serious kaupapa, and this is something that is a concern for all Kiwis, because water is part of all Kiwis\u2019 way of life. In my view, child safety needs to be paramount for Kiwis when we\u2019re out there on the boats, whether it\u2019s in open seas or in lakes and rivers, and so forth. We do have a high drowning rate in this country, and so one takes time to reflect: how do we move the dial and improve that? It really is about a culture shift. We\u2019ve talked a little bit about that today: how do we develop that culture shift of\u2014it\u2019s just what we do as Kiwis, just like what we do with putting on a seat belt when we get into a car. If you\u2019re like me, it\u2019s just a habit. Even if you\u2019re going up the road 50 metres, I end up putting the seat belt on because it\u2019s just what we were raised to do as Kiwis. We need that same type of culture on the boats and in our seas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EPart of developing that culture is making sure our laws reflect the culture that we aspire to have in this country. Right now, we have very fragmented rules across New Zealand, based on the territorial authorities. You look at a map and you see that part of the territorial maps require the skipper to have life jackets on, and then you cross a little boundary and then the rules change. That doesn\u2019t make sense. How are skippers supposed to understand all these different rules around the country? That is what this bill is trying to do, to standardise and make it clear what is expected from skippers, whether you\u2019re up north or down south in Dunedin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EMany families already adhere to looking after their children with life jackets, but not all. That is what this bill does. It seeks to mandate that every kid under 15 years of age wears a life jacket for vessels 6 metres or less. The counter example that my colleague in the ACT Party raises is that we shouldn\u2019t need to wear them in safe conditions. Well, I\u2019d put a counter example to that, which is: how do you know it\u2019s not a safe condition? I mean, in the calmest of waters, bad things can happen. My late father used to say, \u201CLook, there were many recorded examples of accidents happening of people just driving down the road to get their KFC or their fish and chips, and that\u2019s why we need seatbelts even for short distances.\u201D For what should be a very safe thing, it is actually not safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EThat is why I just don\u2019t buy that example, and it\u2019s not consistent, really, with the type of culture that we wish to create in this country. I support this. I look forward to hearing submissions, as deputy chair of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. We will look at what can be done, from widening the scope of this field to include all other adults in New Zealand, but that is not within the scope of this bill as we are voting today. That is a discussion for another day. I look forward to hearing from members of the public and to welcoming this bill at select committee. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022 data-id=\u00220a98796e27dc4810a280f722b7533be6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a98796e27dc4810a280f722b7533be6\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m really delighted to speak in support of this bill. This is really important to me personally, but it is a really important bill across the country. To get consistency in this area is just something that I cannot believe that people would not support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EMy family is heavily involved in sailing. My son has represented New Zealand in sailing since he was 13 years old and is now 29, and he\u2019s currently in Bermuda sailing at the world match racing cup event over there. He is also one of the head coaches in the Royal New Zealand Yacht Squadron for youth. I\u2019ve learnt to dingy sail and sail. We are really at one with the water, and it\u2019s something that we enjoy recreationally a lot as well as a family.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve had some experiences over the years. We are good on boats, we are strong swimmers, we know the water, we know the hazards, we know the weather, but that hasn\u2019t stopped us having some issues over the years as well. I just wanted to say, first off, in junior and youth sailing in this country, it is mandatory to wear life jackets. In fact, when you go to those events, your life jacket has to be checked to make sure that it is of a good standard. That\u2019s not to say that anybody that goes out sailing will wear a life jacket, because the rules aren\u2019t consistent across that. That\u2019s racing sailing; that\u2019s not consistent across recreational sailing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EI remember once that my son was at an event. It was the Peter Blake event up in Auckland, and he was thrown out of his boat and was knocked at the same time. He said to me, \u201CIf I had not been wearing that life jacket, I would have drowned.\u201D Now, that\u2019s pretty sobering when you think that he is a strong sailor, he has represented New Zealand, he has been a world champion twice over, and he is a strong swimmer, but had he not worn that life jacket, he would have drowned. Why would we not support a bill that would make that rule consistent for all young people in this country? It just seems ludicrous when you think that even the best people can get caught out if they are not wearing those life jackets. It makes so much sense, and I congratulate the member for having this bill and shepherding it through. Labour fully supports this through to the next stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00227fbdfdd777a7457a8ed29a0232ec7776\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227fbdfdd777a7457a8ed29a0232ec7776\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E First of all, I just want to congratulate my colleague Cameron Brewer, the hard-working MP for Upper Harbour, for having his member\u2019s bill drawn. His hard work and dedication to improve life jacket safety for young people is truly commendable. I rise here today in strong support of the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThis is a simple, clear, and necessary step that will save young lives on our water. At its heart, this bill is about one thing: ensuring that no parents ever have to lose a child to a preventable drowning. Every summer, thousands of New Zealand families head to our rivers, lakes, and coasts to enjoy the outdoors, but for all the beauty and the freedom that our waters offer, they also present dangers\u2014especially for children and young people. Sadly, too many families have experienced those dangers turning to tragedies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThe drowning rate in New Zealand remains high. I\u2019ll give you a little bit of the data. In 2020, the rate is about 1.62 per 100,000 people. It\u2019s higher than a comparable country like Australia, which is 1.1, and Canada, which is 1.3. In 2024 alone, 18 New Zealanders lost their lives in boat-related incidents. Of those, 17 were not wearing a life jacket. Wearing a life jacket increases the chance of survival in a boating accident by up to 10 times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThis bill focuses on one of the most vulnerable groups, children under 15 years old. Children under 15 years old are less experienced around water and less likely to respond calmly in an emergency situation. They depend entirely on the adults around them to keep them safe. This bill ensures that responsibility is backed by legal safeguards. Just as we require car seats, helmets, and seatbelts for young people, this bill recognises the special protections children deserve on our waterways.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EYet, under our current law, whether a child wears a life jacket on a small boat is often left to the skipper\u2019s discretion or to the presence of a regional council by-law. However, the rules vary around the country. In Auckland, wearing life jackets on boats 6 metres or smaller is optional unless the skipper deems it\u2019s unsafe. In Canterbury, children must wear life jackets, at all times, on boats 6 metres or smaller. A child in Auckland should have the same level of protection as a child in Canterbury. This bill introduces national consistency and a clear legal requirement that anyone under 15 years old on a boat 6 metres or smaller must wear a properly fitted life jacket\u2014no excuse and no grey areas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ESupport for this bill is well and strong. Maritime New Zealand, Water Safety New Zealand, Coastguard New Zealand, and a long list of front-line responders and water-safety educators are all behind it. They have seen the reality. These are the people who have seen the consequence first hand\u2014the lives lost, the heartbreak endured. They know a law like this could save many lives, and it\u2019s very sad and very disappointing to hear that the ACT Party are not supporting this bill. They believe that personal responsibility or the burden is on the skippers, or they\u2019re scared the Government is going to overreach, but I want to remind them that the cost of a life jacket is far less than the cost of a funeral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThis bill doesn\u2019t impose anything radical. It simply aligns the law with what responsible boat users are already doing. This bill turned common sense into common practice. I say this bill reflects who we are and who we want to be: a country that protects its young people, that learns from tragedy, and that learns about water safety. We pride ourselves on being a nation of lakes, rivers, and coasts, and it is time that our law reflects that reality. Let us act now because no child should drown simply because we fail to act. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022 data-id=\u00227e367af6d61f4bf9a0967ba6702d751c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e367af6d61f4bf9a0967ba6702d751c\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u2019CONNOR (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019d just like to congratulate Cameron Brewer for this piece of legislation. It seems small and significant yet incredibly important. I come from the West Coast, and I just want to acknowledge the previous speaker, who also would understand that the West Coast is a place where going to water, either to sea or river, is an exception rather than the norm. The reality is it\u2019s pretty harsh. Our ancestors came to that place and many, many of them drowned because it\u2019s not a friendly water environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EWhen I started an adventure tourism business, whitewater rafting and jet boating, there were many, many people who were quite horrified. It\u2019s not seen as the normal thing to do to play in the water. One of the things I learnt very early on, in fact, from day one, was there were no regulations then, none at all\u2014no regulations\u2014but the basic safety implement of a life jacket was an absolute must for everything that we did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EIt was disappointing to hear from the ACT Party that they can\u2019t see the logic to this, that the ideology of libertarianism that you can make up your mind is going to protect everyone when you go in the water. When you go in the water\u2014and I\u2019ve been in many, many times under a boat\u2014unless you\u2019ve got absolute presence of mind, you panic. You panic. The idea that parents could look after their kids is complete idiocy when they\u2019re in the water\u2014and most of the time stepping on to a boat with the expectation that they will be safe, and for the most part, they are\u2014but we have many, many pieces of legislation and regulation around this country for the small minority of people who might find themselves, unfortunately, in this situation, or harm themselves or harm us or whatever; it\u2019s for the minority. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EWe still go through some quite strict security regimes at the airport. The chances, thankfully, in our country of someone wanting to harm us on a plane is very, very small, but we\u2019re prepared to do that for the greater good. This piece of legislation is one of those: for the greater good. It is an absolute tragedy when someone drowns, especially when it\u2019s not necessary. A life jacket is not that cumbersome or costly or an imposition on our civil rights. It\u2019s a simple, sensible step to prevent what could happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not familiar with boating at sea, but the reality is\u2014and we\u2019ve seen it the last couple of days\u2014weather conditions change very, very quickly. For a small boat to tip or for someone to be tipped out of the boat without any floatation device, I can tell you that on a river, it\u2019s a very, very urgent and unusual and difficult situation to deal with unless someone\u2019s got a flotation device.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003EI think the value of life jackets is probably underestimated. I think we should, along with this piece of legislation, look forward to another National Party MP bringing forward a piece of legislation that says it is compulsory for all schools to teach kids to swim because, in fact, that has been squeezed out of the curriculum, out of school responsibilities. That\u2019s part of the reason that we\u2019re seeing too many people drown in this country. For a country that\u2019s a small island nation surrounded by water\u2014full of water, you name it\u2014we should all be able to swim. And the Australians can teach us a thing or two.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022109ed10b71214b66b45c12e438aca8d8\u0022\u003ECan I just say that evidence-based policy is what this is based on. Too many people in this country unnecessarily lose their lives when they could have been saved by a life jacket. Can I say that firstly, congratulations to the member, Cameron Brewer. He saw the need for a change in legislation that many people might think is small and insignificant; for the people who will be saved\u2014these are people under 15 years of age\u2014and their families, they will be forever grateful. We look forward to the passage of this legislation. It\u2019s the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00224550a75323ce462688ff01cbfe16ee4b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224550a75323ce462688ff01cbfe16ee4b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Cameron Brewer\u2014in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u00228bed7cd5a3fd4b998f72bb89698878f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bed7cd5a3fd4b998f72bb89698878f9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I relish the opportunity to reply and thank the members for their contributions and the overwhelming majority of parliamentarians that will be supporting this to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI think that nothing points more pointedly as to the issues we\u2019re dealing with than when you look at this map. These are the current by-laws in the different territorial local authorities across New Zealand. What does it show you? It shows you that there\u2019s a lot of different rules around who should wear life jackets and how people should wear life jackets. So this is about a consistent, nationwide rule that everyone understands, that kids under the age of 15 on vessels 6 metres or less will wear a life jacket\u2014will wear a life jacket.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI want to also respond to some of the other comments that were made, comments around the criminalisation of parents. That\u2019s not going to happen. The best tool of getting people into life jackets will be through education\u2014will be through education. So no one\u2019s going to go heavy-handed on trying to find offenders and trying to criminalise them at every opportunity\u2014at every opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI want to also point to the fact and to the comment from the Green Party that the water safety sectors need more financial support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7ed18e2a2b4407a43baebd70b1515c\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, is that right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487c54bfc2c24a298d2e757657239713\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they might have missed an announcement, Simon Watts. I think you were probably there with Mark Mitchell and the Prime Minister when Surf Life Saving New Zealand and Coastguard received a funding boost of $63.6 million over four years last year\u2014over four years. What did the Coastguard CEO say, with accusations of underfunding when they had six years? \u201CWe\u2019ve received everything that we asked for, so this is good.\u201D What did the Surf Life Saving New Zealand CEO say with the $63.6 million funding boost from this Government? \u201CWe are thrilled and delighted at this Government announcement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EBut, anyway, I digress, Madam Speaker, and I can see you looking at me to get back on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c11c77282ac348a6b2967f8c14be79b0\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s still got something to do with water and boats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dbb0fbe970d4d8183bd90bb2f2d8fd9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, as long as it\u2019s got something to do with water and boats\u2014do you want the America\u2019s Cup speech? No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EAccess to life jackets\u2014that was raised across from the Labour Party, and it\u2019s a very fair point: the equity of access to life jackets. I went to a life jacket hub at Sport Wait\u0101kere, in West Auckland, where they, at nominal or no charge, give out life jackets to those groups and families that need them for occasions. But we do\u2014and I encourage the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to look at that genuine access, look at the affordability, look at communities, Grant McCallum, in the Far North, and their realistic access to life jackets, and on the East Coast, Dana Kirkpatrick. So that is another issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EFinally, we can\u2019t go past\u2014and we heard another story this week, didn\u2019t we, about another tragedy on the water. You go through\u2014and I\u2019m not going to read them all out, because they\u2019re all discoverable, but there are so many stories that have happened on so many occasions in recent years where life jackets would have saved lives. \u201CFamily\u2019s Harrowing Boating Ordeal Shows Why Life Jackets are Vital.\u201D It\u2019s simple: life jackets save lives. \u201CMan Who Drowned on Christmas Day was Canoeing with Daughter Who Wore a Life Jacket and Called Out for Help\u201D. The little girl wore a life jacket but her father didn\u2019t; she lost her dad. And as the Green Party alluded to, in the Clarks Beach tragedy in 2022, many souls were lost, including a young child, due to life jackets not being worn or being ill-fitted when they were put on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ESo there\u2019s a lot to think about for the Transport and Infrastructure Committee to get their head around, but this is a bill that has the support of over 90 percent of New Zealanders\u201490 percent of New Zealanders want children in small boats to wear life jackets, and this will achieve that. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002233005d15e22a4efdb2b41520ac36e26d\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 106\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 11.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022e5e4765935884e7091f9015be5f1c172\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000756\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002296635aadfe2f43d0b48da64f76f21e34\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E That the Life Jackets for Children and Young Persons Bill be considered by the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the Crown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill be now read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15;\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u00A06.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2757dcfaf004932b3d6942a5c7499be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2757dcfaf004932b3d6942a5c7499be\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is,\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002208c019187a01448fa83069d34b986f9d\u0022\u003ECrown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ed6bdc53b17d435296e23628af87f6ac\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u0022aed34cc84f93450fad10f1eca72746e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aed34cc84f93450fad10f1eca72746e7\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Crown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill be now read a first time. I nominate the Environment Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EFirstly, I have to acknowledge my very dear friend and colleague the Hon Eugenie Sage, who was in this House as an MP for 12 years, as a Minister\u2014Minister of Conservation, Associate Minister for the Environment\u2014someone who has always championed our conservation estate and done amazing work to ensure that those places are protected, not to mention creating huge numbers of jobs and community resilience through Jobs for Nature. She was here tonight, in Parliament, and I was at an event, which I\u2019ll get to in a minute. But I just want to acknowledge that this bill was originally drafted by the Hon Eugenie Sage. I hope that all members in this House, particularly those who were at the event tonight put on by Forest \u0026amp; Bird and hosted by my friend and colleague Steve Abel and Lan Pham\u2014I hope you will consider voting for this bill, because it\u2019s a bill that is absolutely essential if we want to have a livable future for our planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve known this for some years: the simple maths on climate change means that we cannot have new or expanded exploration or mining of fossil fuels, particularly coal. What this bill does is it draws that line in the sand: no new coalmines, no expansion of existing coalmines. The brutal maths of human-caused climate change is that we cannot meet the targets that we must meet to get to the Paris Agreement, which all the countries in the world signed up to at the time, based on the scientific evidence. You crunch the numbers, you do the maths; we cannot have a livable climate if we continue to explore and produce fossil fuels, particularly coal. We\u2019ve known that for 10, 20, 30 years, and it saddens me that members in this House\u2014who no doubt have children or grandchildren or other family members, and surely they care about the future world that those children and their children will inherit\u2014are continuing to live in denial of the basic reality of what we need to do to have a livable future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThis evening in Parliament, some of the members here would have seen an excellent documentary that I recommend everybody watch, and that\u2019s about the Denniston Plateau. I don\u2019t know how many members here have visited the Denniston Plateau. I have not had the privilege of visiting it myself, but I was extremely moved by the documentary that was put on tonight, that has been produced by Forest \u0026amp; Bird. My colleague Steve Abel spoke very movingly about taking his son, who\u2019s 14, to visit this place. It\u2019s undeniable, the richness of the ecology there. It\u2019s actually a unique place with an irreplaceable part of our natural heritage here in Aotearoa. I know all New Zealanders have some connection to the beautiful nature of this place. So many New Zealanders are out there spending their time manning trap lines, doing pest eradication, replanting natives because they care about this land, and they want to see nature thrive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s one of the things about this country. I wasn\u2019t born in Aotearoa New Zealand, but my children were, and two of their grandparents were, and four of their great-grandparents were, and everyone in their family has some connection to this land. And that can\u2019t even compare to the connection of tangata whenua. It\u2019s part of what makes Aotearoa unique, and it\u2019s an absolute taonga that we need to protect. I want to take the opportunity, in the first reading of this bill, to talk about the threat to this incredibly unique place that is the Denniston Plateau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EWhat is being proposed\u2014and I believe there\u2019s a fast-track application in\u2014is an open-cast coalmine. It is total ecosystem destruction. It would strip mine an area the size of 1,700 rugby fields. As we\u2019ve heard, restoration is impossible\u2014it\u2019s like \u201Ctrying to unscramble an egg\u201D, to quote the Forest \u0026amp; Bird speech earlier today. How could we even begin to contemplate the destruction of such a precious place in 2025? It fails, as people spoke about tonight, the most basic tests\u2014first, the environment test. Denniston is an ecological island in the sky; it is a living museum. The Department of Conservation ranks this plateau as one of the most valuable ecological sites on mainland New Zealand. It\u2019s a world of ancient dwarf forests, giant insects, and a Kiwi habitat. It is the only home on Earth for the avatar moth and New Zealand\u2019s very own endangered giant carnivorous snail. I know that a certain Minister in this Government would laugh and brag about causing these species to become extinct\u2014that\u2019s how out of touch some of the Government members are. They brag and laugh about the destruction of entire species.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1398fb4f6054b598e754ab5de26f475\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: But they\u2019re gonna vote for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214abeee2416c4db084e58c64e0dc03a2\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: And the Government members are probably\u2014yeah, I wish they were going to vote for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ESo let\u2019s talk about the economic test, because that\u2019s what\u2019s always put up. We say, \u201COh, we have this precious place where life is thriving.\u201D\u2014a unique place that I would love to take my children to. And rather than letting it thrive, \u201CWe can\u2019t afford\u2014we need jobs; we need money.\u201D As if, somehow, money were something other than a symbol. It\u2019s just a symbol. We have resources; we have the ability to produce electricity without coal. So New Zealanders carry all of the environmental risks, but the truth is this is all a lie\u2014I\u2019m sorry, it is a lie\u2014this trade-off, that somehow we\u2019ll be wealthier if we destroy this place. It doesn\u2019t pass the economic test. Indeed, the cost of the runoff from the acidified water, as a result of the open-cast coalmine, costs more for the Government to repair than the royalties they earn on the mining. You know, there\u2019s a handful of jobs, but we can create jobs in other ways. In fact, we need to create a whole bunch of jobs in order to have the transition to renewable electricity; in order to have affordable, warm, dry housing; in order to have sustainable transportation; to have high-quality processed wood products that can be used in structural timber buildings. There\u2019s so many opportunities for jobs that are created by the transition to a renewable economy, and that\u2019s what we should be doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EThe Stockton mine, which is nearby\u2014I don\u2019t know if anyone\u2019s visited the Stockton mine\u2014has already cost taxpayers millions to clean up the mess. There\u2019s a cruel irony in asking a community like Westport, which is one of the most vulnerable to worsening flooding exacerbated by climate change, to look for hope in a sunset industry which is driving the crisis. It\u2019s not against the jobs that we have had or professions; it\u2019s just recognising that we need to work together for a future that protects our unique places and creatures. It\u2019s a future that doesn\u2019t champion a volatile boom-and-bust climate-damaging industry that has let the coast down before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ETo quote the Forest \u0026amp; Bird speaker tonight, \u201CThey\u2019re putting a choice to all of Aotearoa.\u201D Do we sacrifice a priceless national treasure for short-term jobs and dubious profits that flow to offshore companies, and which come at the expense of irreplaceable damage to a living museum and exacerbate the climate crisis? Or do we draw a line in the sand and say some places are too precious to mine? I think that\u2019s a very easy answer, and I encourage all the Government members to watch the documentary, to go and visit the Denniston Plateau, and ask themselves: is this who they want to be in 2025? Is this what you want to be remembered for\u2014members opposite, not you, Madam Speaker, obviously. Is this what all of us want to be remembered for? Because people will look back at this point in time, in 2025, and say, \u201CThey could have made different choices. They could have prioritised renewable electricity instead of prioritising profits for a coalmining company, and then allowing them to destroy this irreplaceable indigenous biodiversity.\u201D We don\u2019t have to do it\u2014we don\u2019t have to do it. The science and the maths says we cannot do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ESo I ask Government members here tonight to consider voting for this bill so that they can look themselves in the mirror and say they truly did stand up for positive progress, for protecting their children\u2014all of our children\u2014and their children\u2019s future, and all of the other life that we share this planet with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00223ff4efc945cf4454a7a77217e14acb01\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223ff4efc945cf4454a7a77217e14acb01\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u00220fa5345d367c4369a07da77fb551f408\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220fa5345d367c4369a07da77fb551f408\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take the first call to oppose this bill, on behalf of the Government, the Crown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill, and the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ca8bb9e72f94b7586139e8d06db256a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the National Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022265f3bc20a3b4c649e4a9cda827e9003\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014on behalf of the National Party. I do apologise\u2014I couldn\u2019t possibly speak for you. I couldn\u2019t possibly speak for the members over to my left here. I do apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ELook, so it\u2019s interesting, you know, I recently attended the AGM of a little group in Kerikeri called Our Kerikeri, right? And we got to the point of general discussion and so forth and the questions started to flow. So what do you think the main question and concern was from the people in that room? There\u2019s probably about 50 people there. And being in Northland, you\u2019d have thought, \u201CSo is it all about the roads?\u201D Because, boy, we\u2019ve got some rubbish roads up there and, and is it going to be about the dusty roads and all that stuff? Would that be their number one concern? Would it be? No, it wasn\u2019t. Would it be about the education systems and the challenges we\u2019ve had in the education system? Would it be about that? No, it wasn\u2019t. Would it be about the challenges of law and order, their personal safety? No, it wasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you what it was about. Their biggest concern was about power prices. It was about the size of their power bill. And so they then proceeded to have debates about it. And I sat there and listened, listened carefully to what they had to say about any concerns about the price of power. Then they all said, \u201CWell, you\u2019re our member of Parliament. What can you do about it? What do you think about our challenges in this space?\u201D So I stood up and I said, \u201CWell, I think you just need to remember a couple of things. The reason that we had such high power prices is because the previous Government cancelled oil and gas\u201D\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca0a632122c48ea83bf494b958d0b7f\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s because of coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022129c2ddd69934bc1981936ad862abaa3\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f25fd9dfb64be2a2b068e87739c430\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which they cancelled. They put an oil and gas ban on the table and destroyed the confidence in that sector. Overnight, the price of wholesale power went up\u2014doubled. The wholesale power price doubled overnight. That\u2019s what happened. The truth is clearly hurting some on the other side of the House\u2014clearly hurting people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ESo where did we end up? So one of the reasons we didn\u2019t end up with\u2014and they had this big plan. They had this big plan, they said, to stop oil and gas and coal and all that stuff. They wanted to get rid of it all and come to a place where we have all renewable energy. Well, actually, that\u2019s what we\u2019d all love, is renewable energy. That\u2019s great, but you need to transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EThis is the problem. They came out with a big announcement and had no plan. There was no plan. So consequently, suddenly, we became the only country in the world that instead of transitioning to renewables, we\u2019re going away from gas to coal\u2014to coal. And what impact does that have on climate change? [Interruption] Right, look at them. It\u2019s obviously a trigger word. Coal is clearly a trigger word. Gee, they\u2019re really excited on the other side of the House, aren\u2019t they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re in this situation because it was a typical sort of spur of the moment, irresponsible announcement, which led to a situation where suddenly the confidence went, and power prices went up. And why\u2019d they go up? Because suddenly we had to start bringing in coal to cope with the fact that we had a shortage of energy\u2014a shortage of energy at crucial times in the winter. Because guess what? It didn\u2019t rain. Unfortunately, it didn\u2019t rain. The wind didn\u2019t blow, and the sunshine hours were shorter in the middle of winter. And that is what happens. The power price went up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ESo what were the consequences of those power prices going up? Well, why don\u2019t you go and ask some of the people in the central North Island of New Zealand that saw the mills closed, the timber mills and all that that closed, and the jobs disappear? Rural, small town, regional communities\u2014destroyed. Why? Because people on that side of the House, they think they have this idealistic view of the world that you could fix the world by ignoring the fact you actually need energy at an affordable price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234478058dd0f4108929243fbbc36babe\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s free market ideology\u2014it is deindustrialising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d8dab2352a54135bd1819da3b898ad3\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: And there we go. There they go\u2014they\u2019re going again. Gee, they\u2019re quite excited tonight, aren\u2019t they? Quite excited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EGo and ask the people of Nelson who\u2019ve recently been through similar experiences: two or three big businesses have laid off staff and reduced. Why? Price of energy, once again. Once again, this is what you get from people who go through this idealistic approach without a plan. Well, guess what? We have a plan. And unfortunately, because of what the last lot did, it does involve using some coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ENow wouldn\u2019t it be better\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ecace0a26b4a6eb516eeb689d53593\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: And gas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219c1498117e64942985a3082c035545f\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: And gas. Yes, thank you, Minister. And wouldn\u2019t it be better if we were to use coal that we had in our own country rather than importing it? Because that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing. Indonesian coal: here it comes by the ship load into this country, and we happen to burn that while we try and transition, while we build more solar, while we put up more wind farms like we\u2019re doing in Northland\u2014we\u2019re doing a lot of that in Northland, which is absolutely fantastic, right? So that\u2019s why we do that. We\u2019ve got to burn coal. So why don\u2019t we just burn our own?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EThis bill will stop us. According to this bill, it will stop us doing that. And that would actually be worse for the climate. Here we go. They\u2019re all worried about climate change, and yes, so are we, but we\u2019re more sensible about it. We actually have a plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246dc711821664c96a73c40b08f315f21\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Pragmatic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa95585dd1d2408b8d185a7f18221f08\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: We have a plan, and we\u2019re pragmatic. That\u2019s exactly right, Minister. And that\u2019s what we have to focus on. We had to focus on delivering in this space, because if you don\u2019t have a plan, then you plan to fail. And the last lot, well, they certainly planned to fail. We all saw that\u2014we all saw that. We have a huge pile of coal there that we\u2019re importing from Indonesia. What a complete waste of our own resources. So we\u2019re saying to the rest of the world, \u201CLook, oh, here we go. We won\u2019t dig up our own land to use our own coal in the meantime. No, no, no, no, no. We\u2019ll bring it from overseas and let someone else dig it up.\u201D We have actually got better opportunities in this country that do that properly than some of the countries we might import from. And I think it\u2019s really, really important to remember that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ESo what are the other implications of this policy? There is also the job aspect. Why don\u2019t we make sure we give our own people in this country jobs\u2014working at the moment while we have to transition, while we transition to renewables, which is where we all want to be? Why don\u2019t we actually use our own people and expand the mines we\u2019ve got in New Zealand to actually use that coal and employ our own people so that our own communities benefit from it, in the meantime\u2014right?\u2014while we do the big transition? Because it\u2019s just the idealistic nonsense you get from people on the other side who don\u2019t understand the implications of making these sorts of decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EIn summary, this bill really is a typical idealistic, simplistic approach to a complex problem. All it does is help drive up power prices and make the climate worse. It won\u2019t reduce our impact on emissions in this country; it\u2019ll make it worse because the coal\u2019s got to be imported. And so, therefore, why don\u2019t we at least do it in New Zealand where that means it\u2019s closer to us, therefore we have less emissions getting it here to use?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a37d9c7556b49fb84ec53256bc0c5da\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re going to use LNG.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e455d3b546a45a78761365ede1b5adb\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: No, in the end, do we want to use coal? Of course we don\u2019t. So what we will do is we will eventually use gas because that will a make a big difference. If we use gas we\u2019ve got off the coast of Taranaki, won\u2019t it be great? Won\u2019t it be great, David McLeod from New Plymouth, if we went for the local people employed in your region who actually want to work and find the gas so we can then get rid of the coal\u2014wouldn\u2019t that be a good thing? You\u2019d think the people on the other side would be thinking, \u201CLet\u2019s go and find the gas\u201D because guess what? It\u2019s a much better option than actually burning coal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ESo, boy, we\u2019ve got to be excited. It\u2019s like a trigger word on that side of the House. It\u2019s like a real, real trigger word. But, look, in all seriousness, if we\u2019re going to transition, let\u2019s do it properly. Let\u2019s plan, let\u2019s build renewables because that\u2019s what we can do in this country, and we\u2019ll do a damn good job of it. I do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u0022654173a5d68449d284663d5ddcfd4122\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654173a5d68449d284663d5ddcfd4122\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I think, after that stand-up comedy routine, I\u2019d like to bring some serious analysis to this debate\u2014some very serious analysis to this debate. Grant McCallum is a nice guy, but I\u2019m going to overlook that rather facile analysis of the energy supply in this country. We do need an energy plan in this country. We do need an energy strategy in this country. We do need one that is based on renewables. The reason that power prices have been so high is because there are so many unbuilt but consented renewables available to us\u2014wind farms that could have been built. There is a huge opportunity to go to solar power. In fact, interestingly, we don\u2019t actually need coal for thermal power in this country. We could easily do it with renewables if we went and built them. We can do solar; we can do wind. There is a need still, in some cases, for coal for process power, and that\u2019s a recognised need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThe interesting thing is that the International Energy Agency has said two things about coalmines. The first is that, if we are to meet net zero emissions by 2050, we simply must have no new coalmines or extensions of existing ones. That\u2019s from the International Energy Agency. That\u2019s kind of interesting because they\u2019ve always had this focus on ensuring a secure supply of fossil fuels, but not only have they said that, the International Energy Agency has said that the decline in fossil fuel demand is so significant that no new investments in coal projects are required beyond those which were already committed as of 2021. We do not need new coal investments anywhere in the world. We simply do not need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b65be2b4e304b26a8020be25653f63f\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: Coking coal, steel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2a3c0465d10471ca372bb9f058800b4\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: And, Mr MacLeod, that does include coking coal. This is actually a conversation we do need to have in the New Zealand context. Why would we carry on mining coal in New Zealand when there is no need for coal for process energy in New Zealand\u2014when we do not need to mine it? There\u2019s no need for coal for thermal energy in New Zealand\u2014energy that can be created through renewable means. That\u2019s the first serious conversation that we could have in the context of this bill: what we do about our energy supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere is a second serious conversation that needs to be had in the context of this bill, and that is what we do as we move away from extractive industries like coalmining, with respect to jobs. Now, people talk in terms of the \u201Cjust transition\u201D, but let\u2019s cash out what that actually means: it means protections for workers; it means training for workers; it means ensuring that there are good, well-paying jobs that people who currently work in coalmines can transition to, very much preferably in the places where they already live. That\u2019s a conversation that I think we need to have in the context of this bill. If we\u2019re going to say, \u201CNo new coalmines, no extensions to coalmines\u201D, what, then, of the people who work in those coalmines? We do need to have that conversation about the just transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIn fact, this is very much a bottom line for Labour. How do we manage those workers? How do we ensure that their jobs are protected, not the jobs they are doing currently but that we find, as I said, good, well-paying jobs that speak to their skills, that speak to their homes, that speak to their sense of identity, that give them a place of standing? That\u2019s what we need with a just transition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party is going to vote for this bill. We are going to vote for this bill because we want to have that conversation about energy in New Zealand, because we want to ensure that we do make a move towards renewables, because we want to have that conversation about jobs for people who are engaged in those industries. On those grounds, we are supporting this bill and will be proud to cast our votes in favour of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u0022886cd17b287d4d2d88fba5621dcbeddf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022886cd17b287d4d2d88fba5621dcbeddf\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Julie Anne Genter\u2019s bill would make energy scarcer, prices higher, and New Zealand weaker. She says it\u2019s a climate plan; I say it\u2019s a plan to manufacture energy scarcity, and that it\u2019s frankly immoral. From 1 January this year, apparently, her bill would slam the door on any new coalmines and expansions on existing mines. Not one more tonne of good, clean black coal from a clean, safe, local site. Not one more efficiency upgrade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228543103131994603954d36cf310ad639\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, stop talking big.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a3ce683751d468190e08edf5c401c8e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Not one more dollar of regional investment, Willie Jackson. A hard ban; a full stop. That\u2019s a policy of deliberate scarcity, dressed up as virtue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow let\u2019s talk about what she refuses to: real people. The shift worker on the night line at the steel mill at Glenbrook, the dairy processor in Southland who\u2019s responsible for cleaning out the vats, and the family in Flatbush\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522ae6c47f184f61877a8d008bb455ea\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t even know where Flatbush is!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e9f759bb3314ecd8a04894a508a843d\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014who just wants the lights on and a heater running on a frosty winter\u2019s night, Willie Jackson. Tell them to tighten their belts, Jackson\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afee427ac20f4a16947645edd533c009\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: You tell me where Flatbush is! Where\u2019s Flatbush?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022014c7efa1413435a871e713097a4e60d\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014while we strangle our energy supplies. That is not leadership, Willie Jackson. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225493bc3e7c4b4783a66c61eee551885c\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s Flatbush? Tell me where Flatbush is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d9be03b788d44a4b84ebe052ae72dde\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Willie Jackson: it\u2019s an elite fantasy where other people pay your power bill. Energy poverty isn\u2019t an academic talking point. It\u2019s a child doing homework in a cold house because Parliament decided to grandstand, and that\u2019s what we had from Labour and the Greens for six years. Not all coal is the same. Our West Coast coking coal is amongst the best in the world. It\u2019s simply too valuable to burn. That\u2019s why we export millions of tonnes of it to India, South Korea, and Japan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228a35055cc0f4cf3b86411c26be5783b\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: And destroy irreplaceable ecology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215856de75dd84c41a62de85a2822e5d8\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a critical ingredient in steel making and chemical manufacturing. It\u2019s what life runs on: hospitals, tubing, transmission towers, wind turbine masts, EV bodies, bridges, even the things in our homes are all made from coking coal, Steve Abel. Until there\u2019s a truly scalable, affordable alternative for primary steelmaking, coking coal is all we\u2019ve got that keeps us living in a modern society. And when it comes to keeping the lights on, physics beats politics every day, because hydro needs rain, wind needs wind, solar needs sun, and when they don\u2019t show up, New Zealand still needs reliable and affordable energy, and that is in the form of thermal coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why ACT, in Government, is fixing what matters. We\u2019ve given coal- and gas-fired power stations the same one-year priority as renewables under the amended Resource Management Act. A consenting pathway is important for firming energy, so when all those other renewables aren\u2019t available, we can keep the lights on and the factories running. We back building a million tonnes of coal stockpile at Huntly to keep Auckland and the Waikato safe from blackouts and brownouts, and we back locally mined coal in Southland and the Waikato. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EImporting more coal from overseas while banning efficient domestic supply is economic and environmental nonsense. Ship miles and lower standards don\u2019t cut emissions; they raise them. And here\u2019s the kicker: the member says her ban protects the environment. I say it does the opposite. Prohibiting modern, monitored higher-standard mining, here, shifts demand to jurisdictions with lower environmental standards, longer shipping routes, and higher emissions. Bans don\u2019t lift standards; they outsource responsibility. And now they\u2019ve all gone quiet on the Opposition benches, haven\u2019t they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThe responsible path is to demand excellence in our mining operations here at home, to rely on engineers, scientists, and ecologists to design smarter mine plans, to avoid sensitive areas where practical\u2014maybe the Denniston Plateau is one of those\u2014minimise footprints, and restore land when the job is done, and hold operators to account with tough compliance, transparent monitoring, and real enforcement. But that is not an outright ban\u2014that is not an outright ban.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThis bill also kneecaps regional economies that have powered New Zealand for generations. The message to the Coast, to Southland, to the Waikato: \u201CThanks for your service, now shut up shop. Here\u2019s a pink slip, with a pat on the head.\u201D That\u2019s what they call a transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EACT stands for energy security, for responsible mining, for world-class environmental practice, and for a transition to a future that is affordable, that is reliable, and on New Zealand terms. ACT will not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022 data-id=\u00226add3b9f64dd4145b2eef6dc1f6f9349\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226add3b9f64dd4145b2eef6dc1f6f9349\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in opposition to the Crown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill. Apologies, we actually had a speaker in the Hon Shane Jones that was really looking forward to this bill. Unfortunately, he is away on parliamentary business and cannot speak to this tonight. Why would you want to put this in the ballot? It is unfortunate for Julie Anne Genter that this has been pulled out, in this form, to be debated. This bill is talking about a blanket ban. It\u2019s talking about no more new coalmines; it\u2019s talking about no expansion of existing coalmines. We should be talking about energy security in this country. We should be talking about how this would stifle economic growth. We\u2019ve already seen, from the Opposition\u2019s gas and oil ban, how economic growth in this country was stifled under that announcement. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EOn this side, in the Government parties, we\u2019re talking about an agenda of growth, and we need energy sources. We are not just talking about the use of coal, obviously, for energy production, but we\u2019re talking about things like steel production, and we\u2019re talking about things like cement production. They\u2019re all things that go into buildings and into construction of buildings\u2014that\u2019s another issue that we have in this country\u2014and other industrial processes that coal is used for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EAfter I travelled to the West Coast about five or six weeks ago, I gave a speech in the general debate on my trip to the West Coast. When I\u2019m on the West Coast, the West Coasters are telling me, \u201CWe want these types of industries, we want jobs, and we want regional development.\u201D From the mayors on the West Coast\u2014what I\u2019m hearing from the Opposition isn\u2019t what I\u2019m hearing on my trips away when I\u2019m speaking with those people in those communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First believes we should be open for business. By promoting the mining industry, we are actually saying, \u201CWe are open for business here in New Zealand. We are wanting investment. We\u2019re wanting to attract investment.\u201D What I can\u2019t understand is that we\u2019re still bringing Indonesian coal into this country from\u2014I just googled\u2014over 750,000 kilometres away, nearly 800,000 kilometres away. In places in the Waikato, near Huntley, 10 kilometres away, we\u2019ve got coal sources. Why are we doing that? Why are we not using our own natural resources that are here and that we can use, instead of importing inferior coal from other sources in the world that is a dirtier, more unreliable resource, when we\u2019ve actually got that here in our own country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EWe also don\u2019t talk enough about the fact that 0.17\u00A0percent is our emissions\u20140.17\u00A0percent is the emissions that we are producing here in New Zealand. Why aren\u2019t we talking about countries like China? Why aren\u2019t we talking about the US? Why aren\u2019t we talking about India, where all these other emissions are happening?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0d81d48d6c14fa69e41038cdfb6435a\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Because you live here\u2014that\u2019s why. You\u2019re New Zealand First, aren\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d8eb738e0a64162ae220a862ea1d150\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: The Opposition is shouting out, but you want to shut us down, you want to close our businesses down, and you want to skyrocket residential power prices just on an ideology that, for some reason, we are going to save the planet by not having some coalmines here in New Zealand. It\u2019s absolutely farcical. People are laughing at that type of ideology that is coming from the Opposition parties.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EWe also heard about the International Energy Agency and how they\u2019re going to be frowning on New Zealand. Are they going to be coming to save our residents? Are they going to be coming to save New Zealand businesses when the lights go off? Where is the Paris Agreement when the lights go off here in New Zealand? We need to be resilient and looking after our resources and using them while we can. I don\u2019t commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022 data-id=\u0022720aefa1d72949eb80eb543ae8923a46\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022720aefa1d72949eb80eb543ae8923a46\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka. First of all, it\u2019s an honour to be here on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to support this bill and to support the vision and the courage and the bravery that this member has to finally look at what it is that we need to do as a nation\u2014instead of hearing this lazy, \u201CLet\u2019s just carry on doing what we\u2019re doing because it\u2019s the only thing we know what to do and we\u2019ll keep doing it until there\u2019s nothing left.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EThe sad part about this, as I just heard the previous Government member talk about people laughing\u2014and they are laughing: they are laughing at the lack of vision that this Government has and the absolute embarrassment that it has for the future generations who want to hear what is the solution. Where is the transition this Government keeps talking about, because it\u2019s not evident in any of the discussions? We\u2019ve seen a lot of discussion about \u201COh, well, let\u2019s just allow the less dirty coal in than the dirtier-dirtier. Let\u2019s just carry on doing what we\u2019re doing because even though it\u2019s poisonous, it\u2019s less poisonous than the last one that we were doing.\u201D It\u2019s like: are we really listening to the degree and the poor level of debate going on? The argument is that the status quo is the only way to go: \u201CWe must continue to look after the shareholders. We must continue to keep being dirty and filthy as New Zealanders and not care a hoot about the future generations that are impacted.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EWhat we have here, and it\u2019s not disputable, is that coalmining directly fuels the climate crisis and the issues that we have as a nation. It degrades whenua, it degrades waterways, and it degrades and it impacts negatively on our ecosystem. But instead of saying, \u201CLet\u2019s just ban all coal activity.\u201D, what this member is doing is saying, \u201CLet\u2019s ban new activity.\u201D The alarmists are saying, \u201CIt\u2019s going to affect jobs. It\u2019s going to make the world fall in. Oh, my goodness me, capitalism is going to fall on its knees!\u201D It\u2019s just alarmist, and I think the real sad part is about the denial of what the Crown Minerals Act does on its own\u2014I don\u2019t even want to go down that path\u2014but it continues to breach Te Tiriti o Waitangi, where we ignore the fact that mana whenua, iwi, and hap\u016B have never wanted these types of activities and never wanted the lack of connection and the lack of ownership and accountability that they deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EI keep hearing about Taranaki\u2014and, actually, as somebody from Taranaki, we see, full-on, what this industry doesn\u2019t do and doesn\u2019t give to the local economy. So I think, you know, again, the only people that really benefit from this are the shareholders. And quite often, they\u2019re not shareholders that come and bring their energy and their multiplied economic effects into the regions. So, again, the hardest part about this is: how are we going to achieve 100\u00A0percent renewable energy? Are we never going to have that discussion as a nation? Are we going to continue to hear from the likes of people like \u201CMiney\u201D, the likes of the people from New Zealand First, who keep saying, \u201CThis is the only way we\u2019re going to keep the lights on.\u201D Rubbish! What is the alternative? Where is your innovation? Where is your connection? Where were you when the whole of Taranaki had an energy conference? Where were you all, because I never saw one of you turn up? You know why? Because you\u2019re comfortable sitting in the mud and the filth of what the sector does and brings to our whole nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EBanning coal and making sure that we protect our mokopuna has to be something, surely, every party here agrees to, don\u2019t we\u2014don\u2019t we? Don\u2019t we all agree that our mokopuna are the most important people in the world? [Interruption] I mean, I\u2019m hearing one over there that doesn\u2019t agree that the mokopuna are the most important. For us, for Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, there\u2019s nothing more important than our mokopuna, and the sad thing about this is that we\u2019re not here debating what the solution is, what transition is going to look like\u2014no, no. What we\u2019re doing is we\u2019re standing here debating how we please the lobbyists and how we make sure the sector stays exactly as it is, and we take the less dirty option than the other dirty options. You have no idea at all of what it is that you\u2019re proposing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EWhen are we going to stop calling extraction growth\u2014when? When are we going to get out of that denial and stop calling colonisation regulation? When are we going to stop sacrificing our mokopuna for short-term profits? And when are we going to stop sitting there and being in denial that coal is the dirtiest fuel on the earth\u2014the dirtiest? It doesn\u2019t matter what degree of dirty you have: dirty is dirty is dirty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003EI think the whole sad thing is that we, as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, will always stand on the side of those who give a hoot about our mokopuna, because this place really lacks vision and future care for our mokopuna. I think the sad thing about it is not only should we be supporting this bill, I mean, we would love to see the Crown Minerals Act repealed\u2014we would really love to have that debate in this House, but we\u2019ll leave that for another day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002240e5649619404f2c80ddb4dd8ea03662\u0022\u003ESo, again, I give, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori gives, homage and congratulates this member and ex-Minister on her vision to do what is right by every New Zealander, and that is to look after us and come up with a just transition. Kia ora r\u0101.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022 data-id=\u002262d0f5d573f941d4a6f4bbf9f92dcb65\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002262d0f5d573f941d4a6f4bbf9f92dcb65\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. [Interruption] I am pleased that the Government members are full of hope when I get up and speak on this particular topic this evening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to be able to speak on the Crown Minerals (Prohibition on Coal Mining) Amendment Bill. I acknowledge the whakapapa of this member\u2019s bill, Eugenie Sage and Julie Anne Genter, who have done the work that\u2019s needed to bring this bill before the House. This bill prohibits new coalmines and any expansion of existing coalmines after 1 January in 2025. This will protect the climate from the greenhouse gas emissions generated by burning coal and better protect Aotearoa New Zealand\u2019s landscapes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EThis is an important conversation and what we\u2019ve heard from Government members across the House is largely political. It\u2019s a scare tactic, really, where they constantly use the line that we need more mines in order to keep the lights on when it comes to energy, and anyone who knows anything about the subject matter knows that that would only get us part of the way. We need to be innovative, clever, and resourceful in the way that we use energy in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EThe other point comes back to the need for a plan, and it is our view that, fundamentally, decisions like this need to be made within the context of a comprehensive energy strategy for New Zealand. But under our colleagues, of course, this has gathered dust. There hasn\u2019t been much action, like many things under this Government in the past two years. I really like the MP for North Shore, he\u2019s a great man, but this is hard yakka, when it comes to important stuff before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill through its first reading, and I always look fondly to the work that Julie Anne Genter puts before this House. It\u2019s always well-thought-through and progressive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EWe want it to go through to select committee and have the scrutiny of Parliament with experts to put their lens across it and advise the committee with good quality evidence to reduce the politics and the heat that comes with the subject matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EWe need to be integrating this with the transition away from coal\u2014that is important\u2014and, of course, we need to understand what this piece of legislation would mean for workers in this particular place, for relevant communities across Aotearoa New Zealand, and for those in the Taranaki who may or may not have gone to the energy conference as outlined by our colleague before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EBut the point I do want to acknowledge here is that while it does create a strict ban on expansion and means no new permits for existing mines, it means that the continuation is allowed, and existing coalmines can continue to operate after 1 January 2025 with their current permitted activities. The bill does not immediately shut down active mines, despite what Government members will say. Instead, it allows them to operate within the boundaries of their present approvals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003ESo I think that\u2019s an important point, where we say what we\u2019ve got now, potentially, is where we\u2019re at. Any new mines are being ruled out under this piece of legislation, but it needs to fit as a broader strategy for energy in Aotearoa New Zealand. Tonight, in this first reading, we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022 data-id=\u0022f96123d443f448e99f6bf50760dbac0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f96123d443f448e99f6bf50760dbac0c\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It gives me\u2014well, I have to do this really, speak on this bill. I am on the Environment Committee and passionate about all things environment. I do acknowledge the member, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, for, I guess, the luck of the draw in bringing this member\u2019s bill to fruition. Unfortunately, it\u2019s going to have a short life. At least she turned up for her bill, which is very important, so we can vote on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003EI would like to agree with Deborah Russell, who actually said that Grant McCallum is a nice guy. I do can concur, and actually the Green Party could learn a lot from Grant McCallum. He\u2019s one of our co-leaders in the Bluegreens, which is actually doing some incredible work in the environmental space. Actually, it\u2019s probably one thing National could actually do better\u2014promote our Bluegreens better\u2014because, actually, in terms of environmental policy, it\u2019s really, really, really good. To give you an example, just this week\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bd70677d59c4585b86776329ae44784\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: The most environmentally destructive Government in a generation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aab2f1e482e74c08a798525a2d712481\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: Steve\u2019s a bit excited there! Just this week, through our own environmental policy, for example\u2014if I was to talk about a pragmatic policy\u2014let\u2019s look at our methane targets, which were released just last week, I think, where it\u2019s a pragmatic solution. You\u2019ve got ideology up here and it says, \u201CYep, we acknowledge that the methane levels need to come down\u201D, but let\u2019s do it in a pragmatic, transitional way. Let\u2019s look at things like split gas and things like that. That\u2019s the sort of thing, that\u2019s the sort of policy, that the Green Party could do really well on. In fact, I remember our Prime Minister acknowledging the departing of James Shaw and saying that, with James Shaw, there was the last true environmentalist. We really do miss him in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003EWhen I think about coal, there\u2019s a few things that come to mind. When I think of coal, I think of Matua Shane, and I acknowledge his efforts in the minerals space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b43ca1a5fc94e31aedf44eac175855e\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, he\u2019s the future, isn\u2019t he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7eb00c168c641ad8f036dd7b4731b40\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s certainly got a more pragmatic future than you, Mr Abel, I think, because his feet are grounded, let\u2019s put it that way. The other thing I think of, when I think of coal, is my grandparents in Papatoetoe, where they used to put coal on the fire because it was slow burning and would keep the house warm during those winter months. Picture this, Madam Speaker, if you will: now we\u2019ve got the great Waikato Expressway, but before that, there was the old State Highway 1 and you\u2019d have all the stops from P\u014Dkeno and Mercer and Hampton Downs, and you\u2019d see the twin towers of Huntly Power Station on the skyline. I still go past them and look at them with awe and think about the incredible contribution that Huntly Power Station has made to this economy. When all the ideology\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226a9c11d8ad34e5ba000b359405b0ccb\u0022\u003EDavid MacLeod\u003C/span\u003E: And the local coalfields.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f94b81d7220462ba24455bff327f83a\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: The Huntly coalfields\u2014I\u2019m going to get to that. When all the ideology of the last administration talked about shutting coal down and shutting fossil fuels down, and then all of a sudden we were left with these rising power prices, who do we turn to in the time of need? We go back to Huntly and we say, \u201CThank you. Huntly, we apologise. We apologise, Huntly, for that\u201D\u2014the great R\u0101hui P\u014Dkeka, the great power station that exists there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003EI do have some sympathy with the mover of the bill. We do acknowledge that there is a definite place for the reduction of fossil fuel, but, of course, it\u2019s got to be pragmatic. In fact, if I turn to the bill, it said the commencement of this Act will be 1 January 2025, which only gives us two months\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e149af064db49bdaa0be97b16dc1cf5\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: \u201826.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d175f8c1029c4008b60695355f1503d3\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON\u003C/span\u003E: 2026? No, it says \u201C2025\u201D. I think we would need to make an amendment in the committee of the whole House. I think what we could do is we could, potentially, support this if we changed \u201C2025\u201D to \u201C2045\u201D, or to \u201C2055\u201D, just to give us more of a runway to get there. I think that\u2019s really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003EJust by note, there\u2019s something like 12 coalmining companies in New Zealand operating right now, and they\u2019re employing people\u2014they\u2019re producing economic growth. This bill would just think to clip their wings and prevent them from expanding. We\u2019re a Government that\u2019s keen on restoring the economy, growing the economy, and building the economy. Why would we support something that shrinks something based on ideology and not on fact? We too care about our mokopuna, but we want to do it in a pragmatic way, not one that\u2019s cooked up in ideology, where we burn papers in a bin on the steps of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022 data-id=\u0022f65666d3f49a4478942a90a2bcd16302\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f65666d3f49a4478942a90a2bcd16302\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E What a load of nonsense from Ryan Hamilton. Have you got any mokopunas? It was just a very sad speech, but it sums up the other side very well. The member there from the North\u2014Grant. I always forget. What\u2019s your last name, Grant?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d04f7174e5914150bda2d661da4a40b1\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: McCallum.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f957f53ba2d1495db2bedefd677b4f42\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. You\u2019ve made such an impact on me that I forgot your last name! It was a very, very weak speech because, as he well knows, his dear friend Matua Shane Jones was a huge supporter of the Labour Government and the ban on new oil and gas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baeea217ceff4398a6b68cab3d6ba34b\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: He saw the light.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0907426d3114460a7fc709aff11aabc\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: He didn\u2019t see the light. [Interruption] They can laugh all they like, but he\u2019s there, in front of the cameras, smiling away, saying, \u201CYes, Jacinda, I support you. I love you. I love Labour.\u201D He\u2019s there\u2014it\u2019s a fact. He can deny it all he likes, and all his nonsense in the House, but we all know, and old New Zealand First\u2014oh, there he is, the mayor over there, another Wellington\u2014we\u2019ve got a good Wellington mayor now, haven\u2019t we? Fabulous! This lot over here\u2014up and down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the other thing: Winston Peters, the man who should still be Deputy Prime Minister, he supported the ban on oil and gas exploration in 2018. Yes, he did! He was 100 percent behind it, so I ask the question: how can we take this other side seriously tonight when their coalition partners backed us, the Greens, Labour, the M\u0101ori Party\u2014were the M\u0101ori Party there? I don\u2019t know if they were quite there. Not in 2018. Were they there? No? Well, they should have been there. The reality is that Winston Peters and Shane Jones backed us 100 percent, and the other side knows this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003EThe reality is that National back us, too, because the ACT Party, as we all know, are climate change deniers. That is well recorded. David Seymour was caught out on Q \u002B A. He tried to deny it, but Jack Tame came up\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297e87a92c1ab4127a42e04d42243d7b1\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: He tried to deny denying?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dd7af6db3ad40c4a93e03bcd1238921\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: No, no\u2014you are deniers. You\u2019ve been deniers for years and years and years. The reality is you opposed the Paris Agreement, repealed the zero carbon Act, and abolished our Climate Change Commission. The ACT Party doesn\u2019t care about this kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003EI want to say\u2014where\u2019s our member gone? Is she still there? I want to congratulate her. She was a wonderful Minister in this area for her courage. It takes courage. I want to mihi to you, Julie Anne Genter, for your courage and your bravery in putting up an alternative. She\u2019s trying to be nice to this useless lot on the other side. She\u2019s trying to be nice and reasonable. She hasn\u2019t always been nice and reasonable to them, and I can understand that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fa244af10314a30809019906a20f200\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: Ask Matt Doocey.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a81d1cf546424ce98cd17499a421385b\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, he deserves a clip across the ears. All I\u2019m saying to you tonight is that this former Minister cares about the environment. She\u2019s got a history, she\u2019s got background, and she\u2019s got some courage that no one on the other side\u2014I\u2019m not really meant to say that, am I, Madam Speaker? But they are lacking\u2014they are lacking. You have to have some courage to do this sort of thing. You have to imagine a new world, and there is no imagination on this other side. They\u2019re full of dingbats on the other side\u2014I knew you\u2019d find that funny, Madam Speaker. You have dingbats in the Government\u2014you do\u2014and you\u2019ve got climate deniers over there who\u2019ve got a history of rejecting what\u2019s happening; climate change deniers over there. They reject what the majority of New Zealanders want\u2014they reject what the majority of New Zealanders want. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003ETonight, I want to mihi to Julie Anne Genter and to my good friend Jacinda Ardern, because she was brave and she was courageous, unlike this useless lot on the other side, who keep embarrassing themselves and going down in the polls. We know there\u2019s a move going on in terms of the leadership. Louise Upston is a candidate, and I congratulate Louise Upston. We also know that Erica Stanford is a candidate. I think James Meager should go up, because we want a M\u0101ori, and he\u2019s one of those M\u0101oris, you know? I\u2019d put him up, a M\u0101ori Minister, and we\u2019re training him too\u2014but they have to get one thing, and that is courage, and they have no courage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dcd7411ae764e18809804bc3a03cba9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbc00dd271cd4372a7d0bdfb4bac4b36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbc00dd271cd4372a7d0bdfb4bac4b36\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E For the last two years, members on that side of the House have been trying to deny the six years that preceded them, wanting to distance themselves from almost everything that the last Government did. They certainly didn\u2019t want to talk about the oil and gas ban when we had energy spot prices over $800, did they? But now, suddenly, Willie Jackson\u2019s really proud of them: \u201COh, that was great.\u201D Here\u2019s the same Labour Party that was the party\u2014once upon a time, a hundred years ago\u2014of miners. Isn\u2019t that where it started, at Blackball? A party for miners. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225496deb385d345bfb83c09b21ec55d60\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Times have moved on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286a8611981ed4721bad79f07f08ce9be\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Times have moved on, says Willie Jackson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d962988e5d24cf68d3962b851f26e41\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, we\u2019ve moved on. How they love to selectively pick their history.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge Julie Anne Genter. I don\u2019t think much of her bill, but congratulations on having it drawn, none the less. Willie Jackson\u2019s a big fan of you. That\u2019s good to hear. In Horowhenua we were less a fan of your transport policy, in all fairness; we quite like our new expressways and we\u2019re looking forward to having one built. But that\u2019s OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ELet me just break this down and slow it down. The problem with this is it sort of packages itself up as banning coal, but it doesn\u2019t actually ban coal. It bans coalmining, which means we can\u2019t get any coal from the West Coast, where Maureen Pugh is a local MP\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f749807f017423cb8d8ab8c12aa326b\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Wonderful MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d6a11a0846e477ab35b950984c86095\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: A great MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227750554b136e43ecb88dde1566561eb1\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: The only one in the area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b49c041a9b23498e973c449f0d2ae991\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: The only one. Everyone\u2019s deserting that side of the House. It\u2019s miraculous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EWhat it means is we\u2019re going to keep importing that Indonesian coal, the same coal that members on that side of the House say that they hate and it\u2019s a terrible thing and we shouldn\u2019t have this. It doesn\u2019t stop us using coal. It doesn\u2019t lower our emissions. In fact, our net emissions are worse as a result. It doesn\u2019t fix the problem. It talks about it; it gives them the banner. I want to commend Julie Anne Genter in that she\u2019s actually got a bill that is vaguely about the environment, because we don\u2019t hear that from the Green Party these days. They\u2019ve stuck with the green name because it sort of tries to work for their branding, but we never really hear from them. We don\u2019t hear from them in question time asking about the environment. We don\u2019t hear from most of their members\u2019 bills, but here we go. This is at least one that touches on the environment. The problem is it doesn\u2019t fix the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EWhat is the problem? If they really want to see us move away from needing coal as a back-up energy generation, then they would be backing fast track so that we could go and build a new solar farm, a new wind farm\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209fa4261885c4215a5779a7130ac4764\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Hydro?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241aad68b7ad34332a8305185d20d19db\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Maybe some hydro\u2014renewable energy. If we\u2019re going to have to burn coal, let\u2019s at least burn New Zealand coal. Let\u2019s at least create jobs. Because on that side of the House, they keep talking about jobs. They say, \u201COh, you can earn more money in Australia. That\u2019s bad. We should have better paying jobs here.\u201D Well, we could have, because my friends that have gone to Australia work in the mines. They dig the wealth out of the ground, and they provide a better product than what they could import from overseas. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EBut those members don\u2019t want that. They want to have this argument of \u201COh, we want jobs and we want an economy; we just don\u2019t want any of the things that create that.\u201D So let\u2019s just import some more Indonesian coal. Let\u2019s just go [Sings falsetto] \u201CLa-la, la-la-la, we\u2019re just going to look at this as if it\u2019s someone else\u2019s problem. If we don\u2019t see it, it didn\u2019t happen.\u201D, and yet the coal gets burnt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8a14bc0ff1b434f8ec1bb4d26290716\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: How does Hansard represent that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225f7989f19544b85b0517c6527340145\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: OK, fair play, Grant McCallum. That was one of the wittier things you\u2019ve said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the problem, for seniors like Mr McCallum: when they want to turn the heater on in the winter and energy prices are going through the roof, they want to know that we\u2019ve got cheaper ones. They want to know that we\u2019ve got affordable electricity. Their kids want to know that they can get good paying jobs. No one wants to burn down the planet, but people on that side of the House seem to want to burn down our economy in the pursuit of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not into that. The reason that poor countries have higher emissions is because they can\u2019t afford it. They can\u2019t afford the things that move them away. Banning coal would be like just banning petrol in New Zealand. Why don\u2019t we do that? Why don\u2019t we just ban petrol? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0052766ee8641878f8358fb84f66e0c\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t give them any ideas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e76dc14aee24b37a5fba6f232c33265\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re going to need a new one tomorrow, because this one\u2019s not going to make it through. But why wouldn\u2019t we do that? Why don\u2019t we just put the blinkers on\u2014I\u2019m not going to give you another impression\u2014because it\u2019s like most things that come from that side of the House. It kind of sounds nice, it doesn\u2019t do what it says, and it creates more problems, and that\u2019s why we\u2019re not supporting the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002232fae4047f6947babdcb96ceb495137c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232fae4047f6947babdcb96ceb495137c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Before I ask the member, the Hon Julie Anne Genter, to give a right of reply, I just want to say that I wish you could all disagree in that vein more often, because that was fun, and if the Minister of Energy captured half the energy that was in this House tonight, the lights should stay on for quite some time. The Hon Julie Anne Genter, you have a right of reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1a24aaea3e74698a3187d0e0c8a6488\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1a24aaea3e74698a3187d0e0c8a6488\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai):\u003C/span\u003E The International Energy Agency concluded in 2021\u2014so that was four years ago\u2014that no new coalmines, mine extensions, or unabated coal plants should be developed in order for us to achieve net zero by 2050. So I\u2019m sure many of the members opposite have never heard of the International Energy Agency, but it\u2019s a very mainstream body. It\u2019s, like, extremely mainstream. They said very clearly\u2014because they sat down and looked at the math, and everyone in the world, every country in the world, signed up to the Paris targets, based on science. Imagine getting every country in the world to agree on something that means that there\u2019s actually significant science behind it, unlike the National Party talking points\u2014the Government Party talking points they\u2019ve been quoting tonight\u2014which are all nonsensical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s very easy to stand up and say your little slogans that banning new coal exploration and mining is causing high energy prices. But, actually, if you know anything at all about how the energy market works in New Zealand, it\u2019s the coal price that is the most expensive. The coal is the most expensive kilowatt hours to generate electricity, and the overall price is all priced at the marginal price. So everybody\u2019s paying more for cheap hydroelectricity, for cheap wind power because of the coal peaking plants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s totally nonsensical to say that stopping the expansion of coalmines here in New Zealand\u2014and everywhere in the world where we need to stop producing new coalmines\u2014has anything to do with high power prices. The Greens also have a member\u2019s bill\u2014and any members opposite could sign up to it right now in the name of my colleague and friend Scott Willis\u2014that would help fix the electricity market, and that would help address some of the issues. But it\u2019s all just a big sham to say that we have to support fast track to get renewable electricity; it\u2019s just not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EFast track is going to be used to destroy a living museum, a national treasure, the Denniston Plateau, because of this Government, in order for Bathurst to expand coalmining operations that will not be used, will not have anything to do with electricity generation, which will cost the country more than they will pay in royalties, more than we will earn in having those jobs. It\u2019s destroying something that would cause people all over the world to come visit New Zealand. The value in ecological services in tourism of the Denniston Plateau is far greater than the value of it dug up and shipped off overseas. I mean, that\u2019s the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003ESo the Government members, when they say things are ideological, they\u2019re talking about themselves. All of those Government parties are blind ideology, refusing to accept the evidence around public good, that electricity is public good. I\u2019m looking at the ACT Party members. It\u2019s blind ideology that\u2019s causing high power prices; the blind ideology of neoliberalism. It is the blind ideology of ripping up the most precious ecosystems in order to have some short-term profits for some overseas companies that is driving the fast-track legislation. It\u2019s all about ramming through unpopular decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EPeople like renewable electricity and the Green Party has been talking about practical solutions to increase renewable electricity, to have more energy efficiency, since we\u2019ve been in Parliament, which is, now, 26 years. The members in the National Party and the New Zealand First Party and the ACT Party have always said that the Greens were away with the fairies, because they\u2019re ignorant bullies. That\u2019s who those people are and they\u2019re making irresponsible decisions that are literally causing the country to be in an enormous amount of suffering right now. We\u2019ve got a whole lot of public servants in publicly funded roles\u2014doctors, nurses, teachers, firefighters\u2014going on strike because they\u2019re not being paid sufficiently. And the Government\u2019s like, \u201CI know, I\u2019ve got a plan: let\u2019s announce $50\u00A0billion for 17 roads. That\u2019s going to save our economy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bdb4120af127433fb9e705b5f479e453\u0022\u003EYou\u2019re a bunch of dreamers. I\u2019m sorry, the Government is a bunch of dreamers, but they\u2019re looking to the past. They\u2019re stuck in the past, and as of next year, this country has well and truly seen what a bunch of dinosaurs you are. I\u2019m sorry, you\u2019re going to get voted out. Shame on you! Sorry, Madam Speaker, you\u2019re not a dinosaur. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed975a7dee2040ad885d8b3397f3088c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed975a7dee2040ad885d8b3397f3088c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The House is suspended until 9 a.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 10.05 p.m. to 9 a.m. (Thursday)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224d3e23cf11004ed883aa20497bd82ab2000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022965c97d901aa46fc88b84bc2c7061db4\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 22 OCTOBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e9b31505adb4cf7836e21f8ad529e95\u0022\u003E(continued on Thursday, 23 October 2025)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002225666b72c92940718a0f87262ca81470\u0022\u003EBuilding and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b13d69f5c8a54092863da27e363d5633\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022af96a9d3ed1e4960b15eadaeb6d1440d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af96a9d3ed1e4960b15eadaeb6d1440d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Good morning, everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022 data-id=\u0022c771c3b56e0644778ef85d09ff49d297\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c771c3b56e0644778ef85d09ff49d297\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister of Local Government) \u003C/span\u003Eon behalf of the Minister for Building and Construction: I present a legislative statement on the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223be185cbe8d0425cbb8c20f4f231f742\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc19e670bd794a3c876fe6a3acfb590f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EIt takes too long and it is too expensive to build in New Zealand. That is why the coalition Government, through the National - New Zealand First coalition agreement, committed to making it faster and more affordable to build granny flats. Removing barriers to building small, simple houses is a common-sense change that will be an important step in helping address New Zealand\u2019s housing crisis. This bill will help to increase the supply of affordable housing options for both young and old New Zealanders, as well as for people with disabilities and those in the rural sector, particularly rural workers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EBefore getting into the detail of the bill itself, it\u2019s worth noting that this bill is widely supported by the public and across the House. This speaks to the design of the bill and what it seeks to achieve\u2014firstly, accelerating housing growth by right-sizing the regulatory approach for simple, lower-risk building work. If you take a look at the bill, it will permit non-consented, small, stand-alone dwellings, commonly referred to as granny flats, to be built without a building consent, subject to certain conditions\u2014that is, the building must be simple in its design and meet the building code. Building work must be carried out, or supervised, by authorised personnel, and councils must be notified prior to and on the completion of building work. The bill also maintains appropriate safeguards to provide assurance to homeowners, councils, insurers, and lenders that eligible homes will still meet the minimum code requirements and still will be healthy, safe, and durable. These safeguards include existing consumer protection mechanisms in the Building Act 2004, including pre-contract disclosures and a 12-month defect-free period. To ensure consent-exempt granny flats are simple, lower-risk buildings, the bill provides that they must be new, stand-alone, single-storey dwellings of 70 square metres or less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThe bill also provides that granny flats must be built in accordance with a set design specification set out in Schedule 1A. For example, the dwelling must be constructed with lightweight materials for the roof. The bill also introduces the power to add, remove, or amend some of these simple design requirements by Order in Council. The ability to change the simple design requirements will ensure that the building design conditions in Schedule 1A may be reviewed and updated in ways that will continue to meet the building code.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important that those doing the work have the competency to do so and can be held to account if things go wrong. As such, building work must be carried out by authorised professionals. These professionals are required to produce a record of the work that they are responsible for so that they have a lasting record of the work that was completed, who completed it, and when. This information will be valuable for future owners, insurers, and lenders who may want to know if the building does, in fact, meet minimum building code requirements. To ensure owners and councils can be fully informed of the proposed building work, the bill also provides that owners must notify the relevant council of their intent to build a granny flat by applying for a project information memorandum, also known as a PIM. The bill requires that councils issue additional information alongside the PIM to further inform owners in support of their decision making. This will include information on any natural hazards that may be present on the land and whether the council has a view to make changes to the proposed design or a building consent is required to manage the risk presented by the building work in connection with the natural hazard. It is important to note that this is for information purposes only. Homeowners will have the freedom to determine how they respond, and it will be up to the owners to determine how they may wish to utilise this information to build a compliant granny flat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThe bill also offers a much simpler process in regard to building a code compliant granny flat compared to the normal building consent process. Firstly, a homeowner will engage qualified tradespeople to carry out the building work along with lining up their insurance and lending requirements if applicable. A homeowner will then apply for a PIM and receive that within 10 working days. A homeowner will then use that information to complete their design plans and ensure that all the exemption conditions are met, along with applying for any relevant authorisations to connect to a council network if not received at the point of the PIM. At that point, building work will commence. As the work is completed, records of this work will be produced and provided to the homeowner or to a homeowner and a council for restricted building work. Then, when an owner has received all relevant records from tradespeople, they have 20 working days to provide these to the council and to pay any development contributions owing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThis is a common-sense, straightforward approach to building a granny flat. Building owners will then be able to choose if they wish to follow this process or if they wish to go down the normal building consent process, which can see homes taking several months to receive a code of compliance certificate. This bill will make it easier to build, it will make it more simple, and it will make more lower-risk homes that many New Zealanders will be able to live in and benefit from. It will also help unlock productivity in the construction sector, which will help to increase the supply of affordable housing options for Kiwis. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022c00a7e5fd03843fa93a4ac9cff8c0caa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c00a7e5fd03843fa93a4ac9cff8c0caa\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a final call on this bill, which has been an example of cross-partisan working support through the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, ably chaired by Andy Foster, a Minister who enthusiastically engages not only with the sector who builds these things\u2014the people on the ground who know and want to be able to build granny flats and to stimulate the work that they need and to improve productivity in their industry\u2014but also engages with many of the submissions that have come through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThis is a sensible change that is designed to stimulate more building work at a time when the construction sector desperately needs it, and to improve people\u2019s access to simple buildings that will be built in connection with people\u2019s single homes on parcels of land that can accommodate them. It creates a new system for councils to be able to notify people of any risks associated with that, and that remains something that the Labour Party will continue to watch and determine whether that works because, as I have noted along the way in this process, there are systems in this which have been designed quickly; we do not know the full impact of them. It is on all of us who have been supportive of this legislation to make sure that it works for the people who\u2019ll be affected within their communities. Those systems have to be robust, and so we\u2019ll make sure that this is a building system addition that contributes to New Zealand\u2019s building system overall: being affordable, delivering houses that are in the right place, and being safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI wanted to highlight for the House, at this point\u2014the third reading\u2014just how important this is for New Zealand because, at a time when we are seeing more Government policy that makes it harder for people to afford their rents and harder for them to afford their housing costs, there should be some element of Government action on this. This isn\u2019t where Labour would have started. This is a change of the supply side which will make a small movement of the dial to make housing more affordable, at a time when rents continue to rise and when people in New Zealand are still facing a housing stock which has significant challenges of dampness, of thermal inefficiency, and\u2014particularly for those more vulnerable communities\u2014real issues in terms of affordability. Things like poor sanitation, which the ministry in charge of the building system and acting as a steward for the housing system, as a whole, have pointed out to successive Governments. It is not something we expect in New Zealand; it is not a standard that we should set ourselves for our homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EAny small thing that will enable the building of new structures that are of a higher standard and that can get people into better-quality housing at an affordable rate, and make some kind of measure on the supply side to address the real needs in our communities\u2014that is a good thing, but this is not the silver bullet. I was reflecting, when I was sitting in the committee room alongside my colleagues who have all brought a huge amount of enthusiasm to making a change here that will be lasting and that will be robust, and listening to the views of others in the community about how to make this something that New Zealanders can buy into\u2014I was listening to the submissions of M\u0101ori architects, and there was one who came along with his two young daughters. They introduced themselves to the committee. I believe the one who was speaking was about 11 years old, and she spoke of her home in Te Urewera and about the building standards that she hoped for her community, that we could be using more local knowledge and that we could be providing for a community there who, for generations, have lived with underperforming housing stock but reclaiming some of the knowledge that her father was reviving through his work as an architect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt highlighted for me the missed opportunities that we have there, and it connected with me because my father was born in Te Urewera in the early 1930s, at a time when that area of the country was vastly cut off from the rest of us\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b58f0ec5664a4a77ba9df601f468622c\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: It still is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f64c26fab8448bf8c0f52cf553fb3be\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: It still is, says the Hon Peeni Henare. My father was moved as a baby over to the shores of the \u014Chiwa Harbour where he grew up in a raup\u014D whare. That raup\u014D whare had a dirt floor, it had a thatched roof made of reeds that were replaced each season to keep the rain out. But he recalls that being a warm whare where he, you know, really enjoyed his life with his grandparents who were part of the Ringat\u016B Church and were there safeguarding an area that was important to the life and the death of Te Kooti Arikirangi Te T\u016Bruki.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EReflecting on those building practices that this little girl, 11 years old, had come along to speak to the committee about, and that we could not include in this bill\u2014we could not include it in any legislation that is moving through the House on building systems\u2014made me think about the lost opportunity that we have here when we restrict ourselves to a narrow view of what is possible in Aotearoa for a future that this little girl was advocating for. There is something to be learned from these young people who are hoping for more from a building system and a housing system that houses the people who need it most, when we cannot make any shift of the dial for her and her aspirations, and looking back to those practices that worked so well for my father in her own rohe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWhen you think about the policies of successive Governments from then, when he was born, until now, it tells a picture of housing inequality in New Zealand which we are missing too. Successive Governments from the 1940s, those were Labour Governments, absolutely changed the picture for housing ownership. Rates rose over those two decades that were post-war years to increase housing ownership from about half to about two thirds. That was because people were able to build their own homes cheaply and it was because they were able to be supported by a State programme backed to build State houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EState ownership increased and housing quality increased over those years because those two things went hand in hand. The big difference in housing policy arose in the 1990s when a National Government implemented a housing policy that involved slashing all controls around people\u2019s access, and increasing rents. Some people saw their rents of State houses go up 300 percent in six months. The difference there is that successive Labour and National Governments have believed that it is the role of the State not only to increase supply of housing, like this bill does, but to ensure that demand for housing is also supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThat is, I think, the point here: that we are missing a trick if we think that these measures will make the difference that we need to radically increase not only home ownership but the quality of housing in New Zealand. So for this, this is something that we can all support and this is something that we all need to keep working on, to make sure that sort of \u201Ccrust\u201D, as I like to call it, Cameron Luxton\u2014the crust of regulations that has grown up over those decades that I\u2019m talking about\u2014is not holding back anyone to build cheaply and affordably, which is something we believe in, too, but to also make sure that we have the policies, the crust that has grown up, that we need to be brushing away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThere is also a role for us in making sure that those interventions that we can make, to make sure that home ownership continues increasing because, you know, it has been successive Governments of both stripes. Keith Holyoke\u2019s Government stands out to me, in the 1960s; a Government that prioritised home ownership. He was the Prime Minister of home ownership. We need to see that commitment being bipartisan and being widely agreed as important to New Zealand because it increases our productivity overall. It increases our economic resilience; it increases resilience at the household and family level. It gives people something to be proud of and to hope for and a connection into their communities, which is unparalleled. It is a meaningful Government policy that we should not walk away from when times are like this, when the economy is tough for people, and we need to make an intervention on both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking forward to watching how this bill impacts New Zealand. It\u2019s predicted that 13,000 of these small dwellings might be built because of this intervention. That\u2019s a good thing. Where they are in the country makes a big difference, and how they are received by their communities makes a big difference because people need to buy into this and it will change the way some neighbourhoods look and feel. We need to make sure that people can support a process, and councils that also work within the process are supported to be able to do that, have the funding and financing adequate to be able to administer this system. These also became larger during the process of our consideration of the bill; up to 70 square metres. That is also something that we will watch closely because the intention here is\u2014I think, in most Kiwis\u2019 minds\u2014that they will be small, but these will be larger buildings, so we need to make sure that the system is working for everyone. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EAt this final stage, we\u2019re proud to support this bill and we look forward to it making some small difference. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002265ee63a0b06f459d91f39db233b6d86c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265ee63a0b06f459d91f39db233b6d86c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022 data-id=\u0022020673dc997449ea9a387e33396b912a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022020673dc997449ea9a387e33396b912a\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party at this third reading of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. As we reach this final stage of the bill\u2019s journey, it\u2019s time to reflect on some of the things we\u2019ve achieved, what we\u2019re still not sure about, and what we need to address in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EWe support, particularly, enabling tangata whenua to build on their own land. We support making it easier for multi-generational wh\u0101nau to house their kaum\u0101tua, their rangatahi, or other relatives. We support giving people who do have land to add housing capacity more simply\u2014I have to say that 70 metres is a lot larger than where I live, but it\u2019s an interesting change to the size. We do believe that housing is a human right, and we urgently need more affordable, healthy, secure homes in Aotearoa. But this bill is a very small tool in what needs to be a much larger toolbox. As it becomes law, we must be honest about both its potential and its limitations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EI want to say a little bit about the council role. It\u2019s a very major shift introducing how councils operate in relation to building oversight. Instead of a consent process, councils will now provide the project information memorandum, the PIMs, and it reduces their liability in some ways, and it quite dramatically changes their role. Councils will still need to manage the infrastructure impacts\u2014the stormwater, the wastewater, the roading\u2014but with less information and less oversight. What happens if there is a surge of these dwellings in just one area? What happens if landlords use them in different ways than we had been expecting? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EAt the second reading, some members spoke about preventing councils from wriggling out\u2014or possibly wiggling out\u2014of the bill\u2019s intent. But, you know, we can\u2019t hold councils responsible on one hand and remove their oversight on the other. So it would be interesting to hear from the Minister in his closing speech what resources might be provided to councils for this new system? What training are council staff going to receive? How will the public know what they can and can\u2019t do? What support will licensed builders get for any changed responsibilities? The risk is confusion, uneven application, and potentially unsafe buildings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson earlier rightly highlighted the importance of digital records. Master plumbers in their submissions suggested that there are some tools that need to track these buildings nationally, because it\u2019s a big change from a sleepout to something that\u2019s got plumbing, both for the incoming water and for the sewage. Is the Government going to fund any digital systems for councils to monitor these buildings, or is it creating yet another unfunded mandate for local government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EThe legislation was developed quickly. The regulatory impact statement says it was rushed due to the coalition agreement. As Arena Williams said, not just now but earlier, there will be things we come back to because they do not work as intended, and there are some important questions that will only be answered in practice. Will insurance costs rise for buildings that are made under this particular area? How will banks treat lending for these dwellings? What happens if development does overload infrastructure? I would have suggested that we need some kind of more formal review in five years to check on a range of these buildings\u2014whether they\u2019ve been safe, whether their sewage and electricity infrastructure is functioning as intended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EThe estimates suggest somewhere around nearly 13,000 additional dwellings over 10 years. That\u2019s not exactly tomorrow. It\u2019s helpful, but it\u2019s modest. Julie Anne Genter said this is a tiny number, given the scale of our housing need. The other thing is these dwellings are going to be scattered without strategic coordination for good urban design, transit access, or infrastructure efficiency. These dwellings are going to reduce neither car dependency nor emissions. They\u2019re not going to support compact, walkable neighbourhoods. Scattered backyard builds are fine to address some narrow needs, but they do not deliver climate-smart cities. This Government\u2019s preference for urban sprawl in places is not going to help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EIt also does little for productivity in the construction centre. One-off granny flats are not likely to be standardised. Productivity would come from more coordinated large-scale builds. Also, some of these dwellings are going to be used as airbnb\u2019s. Tamatha Paul brought that point forward. That\u2019s fine for tourism, but short-term rentals are not going to solve our housing crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EThese new dwellings will add some capacity to our housing system. Not all are going to be homes for people in need. Most critically, this bill does absolutely nothing for social housing or addressing homelessness. It doesn\u2019t help people, whether they\u2019re grannies or solo parents on the public housing wait-list or sleeping rough. These dwellings require existing land and existing money, so to some extent they will help people who are already better off.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul said it plainly: we are in a housing crisis; homelessness is increasing. This Government was warned that their policy changes would increase homelessness, and it happened. The Green Party has a petition calling on the Government to reverse emergency housing eligibility changes, fund wraparound services to house people, and reinstate the public housing build programme. The previous Government built over 13,000 public homes, the most since the 1970s. This Government has cancelled 3,479 homes, cut $1.5 billion from Kainga Ora, and is selling off existing stock. Now, they want applause for enabling a few thousand granny flats over a decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EWe will be watching the implementation of this bill closely. We will be continuing to push for much bigger systemic changes, not just to more housing but to better housing\u2014to housing that uses sustainable materials, to training for building apprentices that\u2019s improved and better funded. It\u2019s quite hard for people to move to new areas for apprenticeships without rather stronger support. You can look at the changes to the polytechnics; you can take a look at the changes to jobseeker 18- and 19-year-olds\u2014all of these things impact on our ability to provide safe, sustainable, affordable homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EWe have got oversight reduced, the risks remain, and we haven\u2019t really addressed our overly prescriptive building code, which holds back innovations like passive housing and energy efficient design. Rather than just deregulating this aspect, we should raise the bar and make it easier to build high-quality, long-lasting, resilient homes in the right place. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc4b169c0d844aadb653efddc91964f2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc4b169c0d844aadb653efddc91964f2\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s fantastic to stand up in this third reading of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s been through a great process in the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, where there was a kumbaya, there were a lot of problems sorted out. It would have been good if the previous speaker, Celia Wade-Brown, had actually been on the committee, because a whole lot of the questions and issues that she raised were actually answered. I mean, scattered backyard builds, urban sprawl\u2014this is infill by definition. And standardised\u2014these buildings are almost the definition of standardised. There\u2019s literally, in the end of this bill, a description of what you\u2019re allowed to use: light cladding materials. There is an envelope restriction. Now, I have some issues with the restrictions around the envelope\u2014what building can actually be built and where it can be located on the site. But, hey, we\u2019ve come to a kumbaya agreement at select committee and across this House, that we are seeing a way forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EArena Williams talked about interventions on both sides\u2014this is the type of supply-side intervention we need. We do not need any more demand-side intervention like KiwiBuild and other flops that did nothing but drive up the cost of housing in New Zealand and make the other side of the House ungovernable. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022 data-id=\u002276604594f92b497681606f7679492931\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276604594f92b497681606f7679492931\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E I stand in support of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill third reading, and I know my colleague Andy Foster, who is at the funeral for the late Rt Hon Jim Bolger, would much rather have been speaking to this third reading. However, we\u2019re delighted to speak on this third reading. The bill makes it faster and more affordable to build simple, small stand-alone dwellings\u2014one part of responding to our housing supply challenges, as was mentioned by the member from the ACT Party Cameron Luxton, with whom, I see, we\u2019re actually agreeing today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First campaigned on removing consenting costs for small stand-alone dwellings, aka \u201Cgranny flats\u201D, and this was included in our coalition agreement with National. Today, we deliver on that promise, as we have delivered on so many other campaign promises. It\u2019s just another example of the pragmatic solutions-focused, not problems-focused, approach that New Zealand First takes to issues confronting everyday Kiwis\u2014not really just for grannies but for anyone wanting to build, own, or live in a small stand-alone dwelling. Just consider the current very high, very tight housing market for our kids and their ability to get into the housing market, or any other wh\u0101nau arrangements, such as those mentioned by the member from the Labour Party, such as papa k\u0101inga\u2014and those about the Labour Party\u2019s influence\u2014or what they actually want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ef0e297e48d41de9634189195b6e631\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s one of life\u2019s great mysteries!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248764e5ad47047db8811f0e5569c8c90\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. It still needs to meet all the insulation standards, as was mentioned by such member. It saves on time, saves the disruption to construction when waiting for a building inspector, and saves the direct cost of fees, as was mentioned by the Green Party member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EThere was a lot of support for the bill, unanimity in the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, which was chaired by none other than Andy Foster. It started with 60 square metres. Following consultation prior to the bill being lodged, it was raised to 70 square metres\u2014another pragmatic change. Many complying buildings will be factory-constructed dwellings able to be transported to site. Now, 70 square metres is small, but it still allows good space for a kitchen, bathroom, laundry, living area, possibly a dining area, two bedrooms\u2014you can deliver a lot, and of good quality, for a modest price. We have seen many examples, during this process, for less than $250,000, which is well under the average building cost for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, councils are not consent authorities and are not on the liability hook, as they are when they have to process normal building consents. What they are required to do is provide upfront the project information memorandum, as the Minister mentioned; identify any hazards; keep records of the finished dwelling; and levy any development contributions towards infrastructure, which addresses the Green Party member\u2019s concerns earlier. They may also have to oversee any connections to water infrastructure. We will also need to deal with any relevant resource consent issues, if any.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EGetting more houses built faster creates jobs, creates housing where it\u2019s of need, mostly, so we commend this bill to the Parliament. Thank you, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022397f6c43ad4c401abeefeab2f1f54fd6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022397f6c43ad4c401abeefeab2f1f54fd6\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Scott Willis\u2014five-minute split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b59c27cd860a426bbc218cfc75cc28bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b59c27cd860a426bbc218cfc75cc28bc\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. The Green Party sees housing as a human right and the Government\u2019s role is to ensure that there is effective action to increase the supply of warm and cosy homes, secure homes, affordable housing. We all need shelter and we all need shelter that will keep us healthy. The Green Party is not opposing this bill, but we do have concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e7de234bbe4843a5db4ca0fa321e6d\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: Say something nice, Scott. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290b4c712252648179a391b098416dde0\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, say something nice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b8d1574daa43639e8cd2053913a395\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a good bill. It\u2019s a good idea. Don\u2019t be so grudging. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022804ba3e47d76461da3823bbd29b8ce7b\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, unfortunately, just about everything this Government has done has made things worse for Kiwis. We\u2019re seeing people sleeping on the streets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis bill\u2019s regulatory impact statement tells us that there\u2019s going to be something like 7,800 new buildings in the next decade. K\u0101inga Ora was building 5,000 homes a year. The Green Party has put forward a proposal to build 7,000 homes a year. So if we think about solutions, this bill is really a patch-up. It\u2019s a PR job to try and deal with the bigger problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EIf we think about the State homes that have been cancelled, I think particularly about 2-12 Albertson Avenue in Port Chalmers. K\u0101inga Ora put that land up for sale when it was required to. The deadline sale failed. We do not have housing in Port Chalmers in \u014Ctepoti Dunedin because of the failure to build the homes that were ready to be built. This is Government action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWhen you take away one of the biggest levers that the Government\u2019s got to address housing quality and supply, you make a big mistake. We need more direct intervention. The market is not going to solve the housing crisis. People building small granny flats is not going to help get people into homes. It\u2019ll help with some airbnbs, it\u2019ll help with some short-term rentals, it\u2019ll help some people get into homes, but it will not deal with the housing crisis. There is always going to be a section of the market that will not be met because the market solutions do not deliver what we need. They do not deliver shelter for all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EI am certainly in favour of seeing the building, construction, of housing better. What we\u2019d like to see is an improvement in the code so that we have improvements here\u2014and Cameron\u2019s going to say this is all in the bill. Actually, what we haven\u2019t got is an understanding of how we can make things better through other methods such as component building, building from patterns, and using structural insulated panels. If we really wanted to make a difference, we would be amending the building code to make sure that we can build quickly to code from patterns and from component building.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis is something that I have experience of, and I also live in a community where there are homes that have been built, small homes that have been built, sometimes with a consent, sometimes not. There\u2019s not a great difference between the poor quality of those homes, and this is where we see a real risk, because if we don\u2019t have an understanding of what sometimes happens with builders, or plumbers, or electricians when they decided they\u2019ve had enough\u2014they\u2019ve got too many risks\u2014where does that liability fall? This is the real risk that we face with this bill. It looks like an election slogan without a lot of work done, because we saw in the regulatory impact statement that it was done in a rushed manner because it\u2019s part of the coalition agreement. It\u2019s just an election slogan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u00227708a139dc68453c93ef3e2da08523ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227708a139dc68453c93ef3e2da08523ec\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call Dan Bidois, the last two speakers have not sought the call. I remind members that they are required to seek the call if for no other reason than for the people who are actually up in the broadcasting area. So if you\u2019re on your feet and not seeking the call, you are required to do so. If you don\u2019t do so, the risk is that I will go straight to a vote. I call Dan Bidois.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u002237a5819ab8384b3a8142b0faac1e63c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237a5819ab8384b3a8142b0faac1e63c5\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E I wish to apologise for the previous speaker, Scott Willis, because I think he\u2019s a bit upset that we didn\u2019t get to debate the Consumer Guarantees (Right to Repair) Amendment Bill yesterday\u2014his party\u2019s bill. I have one message for the member, which is: you\u2019ve got to show up to this House on time. I\u2019m here to show up to talk about this good bill that we\u2019ve got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EThis is good policy. It\u2019s a great example of bipartisanship in this House. It\u2019s a practical solution to our housing challenges, and I wish to thank the Minister, the Hon Chris Penk\u2014a great, hard-working Minister\u2014for shepherding this bill through the House. I wish to thank the officials, who have done a lot of work to really make sure that we can ramp this bill up quickly, in record time. I wish to thank my colleagues on the Transport and Infrastructure Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EI look forward to its implementation as a practical way for us to build. I wish to say that I look forward to its implementation. Go forward\u2014build, baby, build! I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022 data-id=\u002250d4b6ac81174198b437c345c11762b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250d4b6ac81174198b437c345c11762b9\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my privilege today to speak on the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. It\u2019s always interesting to see my colleague Dan Bidois comment on other actions and showing up to the House on time, when, in fact, I think his own party has issues in getting votes right and practices in this House. But I\u2019ll leave that for him to discuss with his own colleagues\u2014foot-in-mouth syndrome, I think. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EHey, the last speaker also spoke to this being a practical solution to our housing challenges, and I don\u2019t think that that is fair at all. Labour certainly supports this particular piece of legislation. It \u201Cseeks to reduce the time and cost of building a granny flat by permitting small stand-alone dwellings up to 70 square metres to be built without obtaining a building consent, given certain conditions are met.\u201D Those conditions are, obviously, important, and I acknowledge the select committee, who have gone through a robust and thorough process, collectively, to understand both the implications and the opportunities that sit in front of people and home owners and communities for this legislation to take place. Those conditions are that the granny flat must be simple in its design; it must meet the building code, that building work must be carried out by authorised professionals\u2014that\u2019s an important one, of course, because there are some people that DIY at home and quality is important there\u2014and thirdly, that councils must be notified prior to and on completion of building work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EGoing back to: is this a practical solution to our housing challenges? That member will, of course, know that Glenfield Salvation Army is reporting a homelessness list\u2014as he moves around the House uncomfortably\u2014of 150 people, who are sitting on that register in our own community. That\u2019s the highest that Salvation Army Glenfield have ever reported. He\u2019ll be aware that De Paul House in Northcote are seeing the highest number of single kaum\u0101tua, kuia\u2014seniors\u2014accessing their support, so by no way is this a practical solution to our housing needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003ESaying that, it does provide a suite of opportunities for Aucklanders in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, that they are able to use their property better, and that it\u2019s more cost effective for them to do so. We have seen incredible fees applied to people doing works on their homes in the consent process with Auckland Council. But those costs do have to go back somewhere, and so one of the points that was raised in an earlier speech was: what support is being provided to Auckland Council to assist their part of the role? Because what is at stake, albeit highlighted in this legislation, is the quality of those facilities. The Labour Government, despite doing the largest public housing build since the 1970s, particularly, has been criticised for transitional housing options and using motels as an alternative. But here is a Government that is putting up granny flats as that alternative, with less regulation in order to enable people to live in a warm, dry home. So there is a balance to be struck here, but we must move forward with caution, with two eyes open on actually addressing the housing crisis in front of us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EWe know that under this Government, over the last two years, the construction sector has gone backwards. We\u2019ve had thousands and thousands\u2014tens of thousands\u2014of people leave our shores, who likely came through New Zealand and the Labour Government\u2019s apprenticeship scheme. As Labour\u2019s tertiary spokesperson, I\u2019m very clear that in the last two years, we\u2019ve graduated 9,000 fewer apprentices in this country. That\u2019s on top of the 20,000-odd that have headed offshore. As they scale up the infrastructure investment in this country\u2014finally\u2014we really find ourselves short of a skilled workforce that they actually can\u2019t deny because they know that it\u2019s there, so let\u2019s not play politics on that one. We do need a skilled workforce in order to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EThe granny flats obviously need to have a very simple design element to them. They must meet the building code in there, and this bill provides that \u201Ca consent-exempt granny flat must be built in accordance with a set of simple design specifications.\u201D, and I understand that the select committee have gone through a process of elimination there, that they do understand that building code very well and the expectations there. Also in the legislation before us: \u201Cbuilding work must be carried out by authorised professionals;\u201D, as I mentioned, and that \u201Ccouncils must be notified prior to and upon completion of work.\u201D. In dense areas, where we do see intensified housing across Auckland, neighbours are very important, of course, so a bit of the communication of where you\u2019re putting your granny flat is very, very important\u2014that we acknowledge those that live next door, that we\u2019re working with them to find the best fit for that neighbourhood and that community and the people that live between each other. The last thing we want to see, of course, is neighbours at war, which can easily happen when building and construction happens on people\u2019s property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EI\u2019m personally very supportive of this bill. I think it\u2019s an easy thing to do for households that can afford to do this. It shouldn\u2019t be an expensive exercise. I remember as a teenager that back in my day, it wasn\u2019t\u2014well, it kind of was a granny flat, but my eldest brother had a converted area in our shed. This is back in the 1980s, so similarly, I guess, that\u2019s a granny flat; but it gave people a bit of space, families a bit of space. It also offers the opportunity for kaum\u0101tua and kuia to come and live with their loved ones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not a solution to the housing crisis; let\u2019s be very clear about that. The Government has taken us backwards in both building houses and also growing a skilled workforce for the construction sector\u2014we have low number of apprentices graduating\u2014but for the average Joe, in communities like mine, I think it\u2019s a good thing. It enables them to get on and create a granny flat in their backyard, and I really, really support that. It\u2019s one action that the Government can take to support people at this time. The cost of living challenges are pretty heavy, and we aren\u2019t seeing any solutions there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EWithout further ado, can I acknowledge the select committee, the mahi that they\u2019ve done on the bill; some of the expertise that sit around that table, I think are pretty good, and they\u2019ve come from all angles, so I do certainly support this bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u00220342e1e654e84a9d8ab1a5a268aed101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220342e1e654e84a9d8ab1a5a268aed101\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E It is great to hear that this bill received unanimous support from the House. Several speakers have addressed affordable housing regulation and workforce issues, but I would like to highlight something different. I want to speak for my ethnic communities. For many ethnic communities in New Zealand, including the Pacific and Asian families, multiple-generation living is not just practical; it is culture. These families value being close while also respecting each other\u2019s needs for privacy and independence. This bill allows the development of small stand-alone dwellings that support this way of living. It reflects our diverse communities and ensures our housing solution meets real families\u2019 needs. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022 data-id=\u0022804e1d24b7ba41b7ae9b225cf8df7625\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022804e1d24b7ba41b7ae9b225cf8df7625\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a delight and a privilege to be able to speak in the third reading here of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. This is the first time that I\u2019ve had the ability to have a contribution on this bill. It\u2019s something that I\u2019m quite passionate about, believe it or not. This is an area that I think is a really positive one for this country, and, as has been traversed here for Labour today, we are very supportive of this bill and have been very engaged in the select committee process around it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002222105c4b180b459dbc8906783649d707\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: You just need Scott Willis to get on board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a052f6f1c53b45f581ac3aaeb8d7323f\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: It seems like a sensible change. Mr Patterson, I\u2019m pleased that you\u2019re really engaged in my speech here this morning\u2014that you can call out and support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227135369bb00f47fd8de9aca981cc13e7\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m here with you, Jan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a75797982d6445d59f383c15e255d646\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s really good\u2014lovely to hear that, Mr Patterson. We see this as a sensible change, and what we are pleased about is that the new builds will still have to comply with the building code. That was a concern that we took through into the select committee stage and were able to traverse that and have that conversation, and we\u2019re pleased that the select committee made some sensible changes in that report as well, and that has been said here this morning in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EI heard my colleague Shanan Halbert talk about a granny flat that he grew up with in his house. I was a member of a very large family; there were six siblings in my family, and we had a very tiny two-bedroom house that I grew up in. While it wouldn\u2019t have been compliant with this bill, my father did build a granny flat to add to our dwelling to make it a bit more comfortable as a family, and it meant that our family were able to stay together for a lot longer. It wouldn\u2019t have been compliant, because my father built it and he was not a certified personnel member, in this particular case, but that\u2019s what happened back in those days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221bf1fa8223b40c1bf6eb0379784781a\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t throw your dad under the bus!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cd6054bcaf54ee2bf92b52e6dc8a4ee\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! It was a very safe dwelling, though, and it still stands today. I have to say that this is one of the things that I really think is important. With the changing nature of our families in this country, and in places where it\u2019s really important to keep families together, anything that we can do as a Government to help and support that is going to be helpful for those particular families. I say that from working in a particular place where larger families were more the norm, and it was hard to keep those families together. In many cases, when they came together\u2014it might have been cousins coming together\u2014back in the 2010s, they would often have to be in garages and in lounges and places like that, and it was very hard for them. This bill does make that easier. As my colleague Shanan Halbert said, it doesn\u2019t solve the housing crisis, and it doesn\u2019t go near to solving the housing crisis, but it does help particular families and particular places to be able to keep their compositions and make certain that they can stay a family unit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EOne of the questions that I would have\u2014and I would hope that, when this bill is looked at and reviewed down the track, we can see some changes\u2014is will this make a difference to social housing? I say that because I\u2019ve had knowledge, just this year, of a couple of families in my area around me who were in social housing; they had family\u2014not even extended family, but direct family\u2014a 16-year-old young woman who had a child and was wanting to put a granny flat on that particular social housing property, and that had been declined. Unfortunately, there was no emergency housing for that young person and her baby, and she had to live in a tent on the grounds of that house. I think those are questions that all of us can be taking forward and looking at to see whether that could make a difference for social housing providers to be able to put such dwellings on those pieces of land.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022099aa85f1a1b44c2ac1ca0640bb021ca\u0022\u003EAgain, those are questions for review down the track, but, overall, I think this is a really good change; it\u2019s a pragmatic change; it won\u2019t solve some of the big issues that we have as a country, but it will help certain demographics within the country. I have no hesitation in commending the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeb914352cf740709364f1c7278a0cef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeb914352cf740709364f1c7278a0cef\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a great honour to rise in support of the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. We want to increase the supply of housing because, currently, it\u2019s far too hard to build a home in New Zealand. Even the simplest dwellings are tied up in red tape. This is about building the houses and the homes that New Zealanders need. We want to increase the supply. This is just one measure we\u2019re taking. We are also increasing access to overseas products that comply with overseas standards. This is going to really make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EThe other thing I\u2019ll mention is we\u2019ve already seen up to 29 percent of real estate sales going to first-home buyers in New Zealand. That\u2019s the highest on record. This Government is serious about getting houses to New Zealanders. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022 data-id=\u00220687a7766a3a4f2594e2e5bce18d07a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220687a7766a3a4f2594e2e5bce18d07a9\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe, Mr Speaker. Kua rongo koutou mai i aku hoamahi kei te whakaae Te P\u0101ti Reipa i t\u0113nei kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E[Thank you, Mr Speaker. You have heard from my colleagues that the Labour Party agrees with this initiative.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI stand in support of this bill, the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill, as my colleagues have indicated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EJan Tinetti took me on a trip down memory lane. I am\u2014I\u2019ve said in this House before\u2014one of nine children and have a very large extended family, and looking after our elders is something that\u2019s been entrenched in our wh\u0101nau. When I was younger, my grandmother came back to Rangitukia to stay with us, leaving her granny flat here in T\u012Btahi Bay to come and spend a couple of years with us so that\u2014well, actually, so that my cousin could get disciplined by my mother, and also to have a bit of a taste of country life. So in that sense, in the sense of keeping wh\u0101nau together, of course, we naturally support this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EEasier doesn\u2019t necessarily mean accessible. One of the barriers\u2014which I accept that this bill removes a lot of barriers and that\u2019s why we support it\u2014when building on whenua M\u0101ori, especially, there are enough barriers you have to go through. First of all, to get your wh\u0101nau together to look at the land block and then to go to get the consent from the shareholders; and then to get your ducks in a row to finally get to Te Kooti Whenua M\u0101ori; and then go through that process to get your occupation order or your license to occupy. That can take years. Once that\u2019s done, you then have to go through the process of finding finance to go through the process of naturally building what often is a dream home on your whenua, to which you feel absolutely connected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003ESometimes, that dream actually becomes a nightmare for so many wh\u0101nau because of the laborious process it can be, and that\u2019s a bigger-picture item for us, I hope, as a whole House to work on: removing that barrier and making that easier for wh\u0101nau. While that doesn\u2019t remove those barriers, this does go some way to helping wh\u0101nau access housing. While this may not be the express intention of this bill, to provide permanent long-term housing, let me tell you, that\u2019s what\u2019s going to happen. If you drive across not just Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti but around the bay\u2014probably some of a lot of the areas some of the constituent MPs live in\u2014you will see wh\u0101nau establishing makeshift papa k\u0101inga. Whether or not that is the intention of this bill, that is what\u2019s going to happen. Wh\u0101nau who don\u2019t have access to resources to build their dream home are going to see this as an opportunity to whack up what they will see as housing options, as permanent full-time housing. The risks that come with that, with the lack of infrastructure required, are health and safety risks, and just\u2014well, quite frankly, we risk Soweto-type situations popping up around communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EWhile the price tag of less than $250,000 might seem attractive, that is still far out of reach for a lot of wh\u0101nau. I\u2019ll go back to the issue of accessing finance. Some of the criteria is such that I know of one person who couldn\u2019t get access to a $50,000 mortgage to renovate a family home on M\u0101ori land, but he could get a loan to buy a $77,000 vehicle. These are the realities that wh\u0101nau are facing, and the risks that come with this legislation\u2014while we support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThat said, I want to reflect on the aftermath of Cyclone Gabrielle, where we saw whare \u0101whina pop up to support and house wh\u0101nau from Wairoa all around the East Coast; and visiting a wh\u0101nau member in Te Wairoa, who was so happy to be in her whare \u0101whina, which I think was about 30 metres squared. Why she was happy was because she still got to be on her whenua. So that\u2019s a beautiful opportunity that comes with the support that that provided and with this bill; it is going to allow people to put something that they want on their whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThe other positive thing that I want to raise is the opportunity for M\u0101ori providers who are already fulfilling builds of this nature. I think of Toit\u016B Tair\u0101whiti, who\u2014referencing Willie Te Aho, who\u2019s one of their senior advisors\u2014has already stated that they have the ability to build these, so they come pre-built to your whenua, within around two to three months. We know that\u2019s a proven record, because as I\u2019ve said, they have delivered already in situations such as post-Gabrielle. And actually, there are papa k\u0101inga that are popping up around Tair\u0101whiti and Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EAgain, just want to support and reflect on the comments of my colleague Shanan Halbert about the workforce that\u2019s going to be required to fulfil these whare\u2014because speaking of post-Gabrielle, it was just so amazing to see apprentices in Hawke\u2019s Bay, in Ng\u0101ti Kahungunu, supporting the builds of houses which now sit at Om\u0101hu Marae, who, as we all know, was a beacon of light for all communities post-Gabrielle. These are the considerations that need to be made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI am very pleased for the wh\u0101nau whom this will serve\u2014wh\u0101nau for whom this is accessible, who now can build a whare for their kuia, for their koroua, for their mokopuna in their backyard, and also build a dwelling on their whenua so they can be grounded and connected and be where they want to be. N\u0101 reira, e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, kei te tautoko au i t\u0113nei pire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E[Therefore, Mr Speaker, I support this bill.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022 data-id=\u0022aa2b2a9c0e384d1b81a9a8ca8a4b08c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022aa2b2a9c0e384d1b81a9a8ca8a4b08c5\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m thrilled to be the last speaker on this bill, the Building and Construction (Small Stand-alone Dwellings) Amendment Bill. This bill will go a long way to solving some of the issues some of my constituents have building on their land. In particular, I\u2019m thinking of one who I\u2019ve been dealing with recently, so, Gordon, I hope this helps solve your problem. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b05db027ed149ed922020797a5e1218\u0022\u003ECrimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a916750d33f141f3bf5e1965c6472175\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000105\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 18 September.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022 data-id=\u002223b9d33be23f430b969587bea0abaa5c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223b9d33be23f430b969587bea0abaa5c\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to speak against the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill. While we do believe that it\u2019s important to ensure New Zealand is protected from genuine threats of foreign interference, we believe this legislation does not ensure sufficient protection for civil liberties and democratic freedoms. This was a sentiment that was echoed in the submissions stage of the select committee process. The committee received 705 submissions, 49 of which were accompanied by oral submissions to the committee. Out of those 705 submissions, 620 submitters opposed the bill, 34 supported it, and the remaining 51 were either unclear or did not take a position on this bill. We share the concerns of the submitters that this legislation could be used against environmental advocates, trade unions, human rights groups, and indigenous peoples. The recommendations in the departmental report and from the select committee have not alleviated this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EWe do believe that the legislation is written in such a vague way that it could encapsulate\u2014for example, I\u2019ve already wished members a happy Filipino Restaurant Week yesterday, and I did that just because I saw that it was Filipino Restaurant Week. But if the Filipino Embassy had contacted me and asked me to share posts related to Filipino Restaurant Week, under the really vaguely defined provisions of the legislation, my posting that and encouraging people to celebrate Filipino Restaurant Week could potentially constitute a crime if you interpret that under this legislation. That\u2019s how loosely defined this legislation could be, and that\u2019s why we have serious concerns. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EThe Crown\u2019s record in this regard is not good. We only have to look at the Urewera raids and the history of espionage in a domestic way to see that. We consider that the new offences created represent State overreach and a significant threat to civil liberties, particularly the right to peacefully protest and organise, the right to privacy, and the right to voice one\u2019s own personal political opinions, or opinions about restaurants for that matter. References to a foreign power and what it means to act for or on behalf of a foreign power are too broad and have not addressed the concerns of many submitters. Intelligence agencies often highlight concerns about foreign influence from countries such as China and Russia, for example, but there\u2019s no clarity on how this bill will address, if at all, the influence of Five Eyes countries and the additional complexities of navigating those relationships. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you an example of that complexity. There\u2019s widespread public concern about the presence of a law enforcement FBI office being opened here in Wellington, particularly around the level of coordination and cooperation in law enforcement and policing matters, and the relationship between our security services. It took everyone by surprise, especially the trade Minister Todd McClay, because the very next day we got pinged with 50 percent tariffs. We actually felt a bit sorry for him. They let this lot set up shop, including an FBI headquarters right in our capital, and they said thank you with tariffs. We\u2019ve had Ministers say that this wasn\u2019t about China, but then the person who came over to open the office, Kash Patel, reiterated that it actually is about countering China. This is not a simple administrative move, and it\u2019s not just an intelligence liaison. This is an expansion of a foreign surveillance power on to our soil under the banner of cooperation and security. Is that foreign interference? This legislation doesn\u2019t count it so, but apparently we can just invite them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EThis appears to step over successive Governments\u2019 claims on independent foreign policy and continues with the trend that we\u2019ve seen, under this Government, of being aligned to the United States rather than with other partners and our neighbours in the Pacific. We should not accept that our membership of Five Eyes means we should be open to agencies from within that group. We are not another state in Donald Trump\u2019s United States. There\u2019s also insufficient clarity on how this would address foreign interference from powerful multinational corporations who might owe no allegiance to any foreign power. References to benefiting a foreign power are also too subjective and broad. The implications of this are numerous. I\u2019ve already mentioned the right to peacefully protest could be threatened by accusations of being a protest movement in service of a foreign power. We are also concerned that consultation with M\u0101ori was inadequate, particularly given the submitters\u2019 concerns around the State\u2019s poor track record, and the rest of this legislation could unfairly target M\u0101ori, particularly for aspirations of tino rangatiratanga and mana motuhake. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u002225eef33df8b54f8e9c01af2182bb49ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225eef33df8b54f8e9c01af2182bb49ff\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Thanks for the opportunity to speak on this bill. There are three things I want to touch on in terms of amendments that came through the Justice Committee: replacing \u201Cenemy alien\u201D with \u201Ccitizen of a State at war with New Zealand\u201D, just to make that really clear what that reference related to; secondly, making it a question of law whether a person owes allegiance to New Zealand, so a judge will make that decision instead of a jury\u2014that was a suggestion of the New Zealand Law Society\u2014and, finally, a safeguard for protesters to ensure that engaging in protest, advocacy, or industrial action would not, by itself, be criminalised. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e148ae1d32c14d88aa0551079779f282\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e148ae1d32c14d88aa0551079779f282\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very glad to be able to have a chance to contribute to this second reading debate on the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EI wanted to say a couple of things about why I think this bill is important and why it\u2019s worthy of serious debate in the House. The motivation here is to protect our democracy. And when we look around the world right now, democracy is under threat in so many places. It\u2019s under threat from right-wing populism. It\u2019s under threat from Governments who deliberately set out to undermine democratic institutions, to ignore the basic human rights standards that have been really the foundation of democratic systems for more than a century\u2014I would note that both of these things are going on right now in the United States, a country that much of the world has looked to as a pinnacle of democracy for a long time\u2014and the rise of unregulated, unchecked social media. For so many reasons, our democracies are under threat, and foreign interference, the deliberate covert interference, including in elections, is also a feature of the international landscape right now. The Russians have been identified often as one of the worst culprits in this respect. But they\u2019re not the only ones, and we have no reason to think that little old New Zealand at the bottom of the South Pacific is likely to be immune from these kinds of pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the concerns that were raised by our Green Party colleagues. This is something that warrants careful and thoughtful balance here. Historically, it\u2019s not very long since the anti-communist witch hunts of the 1950s. Think about the McCarthyite hounding of people both in politics and the entertainment industry; in fact, all walks of life in the United States where anti-communism and geopolitics was used as a pretext to suppress absolutely legitimate political dissent in a liberal democracy. It\u2019s not very long since that happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EThink of the Government of Sid Holland, the National Party Prime Minister from 1949 in New Zealand. We had plenty of our own echoes of exactly the same phenomenon when geopolitics and anti-communism were used to crack down on critics of the Government of the day. And I think about the Bill Sutch case and others. So we\u2019re not immune to all that. But by the same token, it\u2019s very clear, and our intelligence agencies have provided plenty of evidence, that there is foreign interference that is covert and deceptive activity taking place that, at least arguably, could undermine New Zealand score national interests. So I think we have to take that seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the elephant in the room in this debate, and that is the quite well publicised activities of operatives from the Chinese Government who have been engaging in, I think, foreign interference, in the way that it is defined in this bill\u2014their activities would qualify as foreign interference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m not an advocate for a kind of new Cold War mentality about the rise of China. In fact, I regard myself as a principled critic of this Government\u2019s headlong rush into the arms of the united military alliance, effectively with the United States, to counter China\u2019s growing strength in the Asia-Pacific region. In my view, and I think it\u2019s the view of my colleagues too, the relationship with China is one of our most important foreign policy relationships. We have an enormous amount at stake not just in economic terms and trade, but China is already a great power in our region, and we need to conduct our relationship with China in a way that\u2019s calm and thoughtful, and mature. There is far too much at stake to cast China as some kind of military villain in our region and a military threat to New Zealand. It\u2019s not. The biggest threat, actually, is what would be a catastrophic war between China and the US and Asia. And in our foreign policy, we need to be doing everything we can to avoid that. We need to be a voice for peace and negotiation and detente. So I\u2019m not a new Cold War guy in terms of our relationship with China, but I do think that we need to be candid with our friends in China and in the Chinese Government and say publicly and openly that foreign interference activity in New Zealand is not acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EAs a local MP in West Auckland, I represent a substantial community of Chinese New Zealanders. They are New Zealanders, they live here, they have the right to stay here, they contribute to this country, they are making a new life, and their human rights are just as important as the human rights of any other person in this country. So when I see reported incidences of people in the community being intimidated, when there are threats that are alleged or implied against the family members back in China of people who might be considered to be dissenters or dissidents here, that is completely unacceptable. There is a word for it and it\u2019s \u201Ctransnational repression\u201D. There are a number of countries around the world who engage in transnational repression, where they basically send their operatives to put pressure on people in the diaspora to try and keep them in line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also, in my view, unacceptable that that the Chinese Government, through its United Front Work Department, deploys resources of the State to influence the behaviour and the publicly expressed opinions of the diaspora communities in New Zealand by controlling and influencing Chinese language media outlets who serve the diaspora communities in New Zealand. That is not OK, and when I read reports of the deliberate influencing and the distribution of funds through community-based associations and organisations who serve our Chinese diaspora communities in New Zealand in order to exercise influence in a covert way, I don\u2019t believe that that is acceptable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227d50be4a7fd042fca27c41c4c644561f\u0022\u003ESo, as a member of this House, I want to say to the Chinese Government that New Zealand values the relationship with China. We are inextricably bound together. We share the Asia-Pacific region; our destinies are intertwined. We have a very important and growing Chinese diaspora community in New Zealand. It\u2019s been around for a long time, back to the 1800s, and today it is growing fast. These are New Zealanders who contributed enormously to our society, and we expect that their human rights and civil rights will be respected and that they will not be used in a way that\u2019s instrumental in what we regard, and certainly in the terms of the bill that we are debating in the House today, as foreign interference. I think that for those reasons this bill is very important. It\u2019s about a protection to our democracy. I\u2019ve spoken about China as an example, but there are many other countries around the world, like Afghanistan, like Iran, and others who engage in transnational repression. It is not good enough and I think this bill actually is a good and useful move to address those issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u0022708a21c764fe4a0185e2ee918d78cf4d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022708a21c764fe4a0185e2ee918d78cf4d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s great to speak on the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill, which we considered on the Justice Committee, and it was great to engage with that. Let\u2019s just be really clear about what the legislation is intending to do here. It\u2019s about strengthening the criminal law and providing a means to better hold people accountable for undertaking foreign interference. That\u2019s ultimately what the legislation is all about. There are some foreign States that try to influence what people in other countries do, and this is simply providing a means to better hold people accountable for undertaking foreign interference. As such, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022 data-id=\u002228b0b6f71bdb4c5cbbf59f12fc671d5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002228b0b6f71bdb4c5cbbf59f12fc671d5a\u0022\u003EHon PEENI HENARE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak to this bill. I\u2019m not on the Justice Committee. However, I am a proud member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u2014probably the hardest-working committee, certainly from my perspective. That these matters go hand in hand is the point here. When we consider our relations in the foreign sphere\u2014when we consider the way that we interact with other nations abroad, but also here domestically\u2014these things must be considered hand in hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EMy colleague the Hon Phil Twyford gave, I thought, a very good speech about the fine balance being struck here\u2014about trying to make sure that we can continue to protect our citizens here in New Zealand; to protect also the right, in a free democracy, for advocacy, to have the right for protest, but also to make sure that we continue to protect the sovereignty of New Zealand, the democracy we all enjoy, and also the rights of citizens here in New Zealand. I thought Mr Twyford made a very good contribution on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EI think of the speeches in this House in light of the most recent threat assessment that has been completed by our agencies, as a background to some of my thinking with respect to this bill\u2014how we must continue to act in our best interests, how we must continue to make sure that we look towards the geopolitical challenges that the world finds itself in today, and how ever-evolving that is, and how we must make sure that the legislation is fit for purpose today but also lends itself to an opportunity for the evolution of that legislation given the ever-evolving situation of foreign affairs matters around the world. It is a tricky time\u2014it is a tricky time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s naive for many of our people out in New Zealand, who often sit in ignorance of many of the challenges that they face and of many of the challenges that this country faces\u2014and I think of some recent examples, whether it\u2019s what seems like a benign kind of cyber-attack or phishing, if we will, or whether it\u2019s something far more sinister. We\u2019ve seen occasions of that, where we know, on a regular basis, that our public institutions are constantly under attack in those spaces, all for access to data\u2014to public and to private information.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EWhen we look towards a piece of legislation or an apparatus that is designed to deter but also to define\u2014and also, where appropriate, look towards an appropriate punishment for those that do enter into that particular space of what we\u2019re covering here, around terrorism and countering foreign interference\u2014we\u2019ve got to make sure that it is able to answer the questions that many have on instances that we are aware of and that we are clear on. Mr Twyford spoke to some of the well-documented and publicly known instances where there have been cases where it has been proven that there has been foreign interference, but also cases where it has been proven that it doesn\u2019t quite meet that threshold, or in fact that we might have had a rogue or a person acting on their own. There have been those instances, certainly in my time here in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re looking to support this bill and continue to remind the House, though, that, on a day when communities across the country are striking, we must continue to respect and also protect the ability for our people here in this country to peacefully protest, for advocacy, and for industrial action. It\u2019s rather fitting that we continue to speak and discuss this bill on a day when New Zealanders look towards taking to the streets to prove their point in the industrial action space, rallying against the moves by this Government with respect to their pay. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, we support this bill. Like I said, from my perspective on the committee that I myself and you sit on, we must think of it in its entirety, within its context in international affairs, and, of course, the security of our democracy here at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022 data-id=\u00228c87a3e3335b4899877d7880f5f94b8d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c87a3e3335b4899877d7880f5f94b8d\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to take a call on the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill. As my colleague\u2014or my friend\u2014the Hon Peeni Henare said, as a member of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, I have an interest in this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EForeign interference from any country is simply unacceptable and it often disrupts the rights of New Zealanders, including their right to freedom of expression. So this legislation will help to ensure that our criminal law is fit for purpose to address what we see as a harmful activity and will better equip the relevant agencies to hold people to account. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u002233b78ea95a7a4f67b89f86a076f0cfb1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002233b78ea95a7a4f67b89f86a076f0cfb1\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Thank you for the opportunity to speak on this bill. It was an interesting process at the Justice Committee to hear submissions and to understand the nature of some of the threats that this bill is designed to counter. In particular, the instances that were provided at select committee revolved around members of the New Zealand community who have Chinese connections and who have been in situations of protest against issues that are occurring in China. There were instances where there had been pressure put upon them not to be able to protest in New Zealand, to the point where sometimes there was a physical threat to prevent that protest from happening. We have a very strong view in Labour that irrespective of your country of origin, if you are a New Zealander you have every right and privilege of a New Zealander, and that includes the right to be able to protest about whatever you want to as a free citizen. We believe that\u2019s a fundamental part of our democracy, and we believe that no other nation State has the right to interfere in our democratic processes here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe bill, essentially, seeks to deter, detect, and respond to covert actions by powers that threaten our sovereignty, our democracy, and the safety of those who call this country home. Let me be clear from the outset: Labour supports robust measures to protect New Zealand\u2019s democratic institutions from foreign interference. And in this day and age, that is more important than ever before. It\u2019s important that people can rely upon information and make up their own minds and be able to participate freely in a democracy. We live in a world where State-sponsored disinformation, cyber-attacks, and coercive diplomacy have become tools of influence on the international stage. It is only right that our legal framework evolves to meet these modern challenges, and that is what this bill attempts to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s important to note that this is qualified. We recognise the importance of acting decisively, but also the importance of acting wisely and being fully informed. When Governments expand the powers of the State, particularly in the realm of national security, they must also do so with precision, accountability, and transparency. Labour\u2019s position is that while the bill is a necessary step, it must be accompanied by strong safeguards, resourcing, and oversight to ensure that it protects our democracy not only from foreign interference but also from overreach at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe main points I would like to make today are the importance of defending New Zealand sovereignty and democratic values, and also the importance of having a broader, more coherent national security strategy\u2014one that earns, not assumes, public trust, and that is so important. At its core, this bill is about protecting our independence of decision making, the ability of our people and institutions here in New Zealand to shape our future without external manipulation. That is so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EForeign interference can take place in many shapes, and sometimes we\u2019re not even aware of that. It can involve covert funding of political activities, attempts to intimidate members of ethnic communities, and cyber-attacks designed to steal sensitive data or disrupt Government operations. We\u2019ve seen examples of this behaviour internationally, and we would be naive to assume Aotearoa is not immune to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe National Security Strategy, released in 2023, was right to identify foreign interference as a key and growing threat. However, that recognition must now be backed by substance and capability. The gaps that this bill seeks to close are real, but also too are the risks with acting without balance. We cannot defend democracy by weakening the very principles that underpin it. Laws designed to target foreign interference must be precisely defined and proportionately applied, ensuring they do not have a chilling effect on the legitimate political activity, advocacy, or even dissent, especially amongst diaspora communities who already face pressure from authoritarian regimes abroad. Labour will therefore continue to seek assurances that these laws will not be misused to target individuals exercising their democratic rights, to silence critics under the guise of security, and make sure New Zealand is protecting its democracy and protecting its freedom of expression as much as it means countering covert influence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThis bill has some big changes, and I\u2019d just like to outline what some of those changes are. Targeting foreign interference offences: this bill has the introduction of a foreign interference offence. It squarely criminalises covert, deceptive, corruptive, or coercive activity undertaken on behalf of a foreign power to harm New Zealand\u2019s core interests, including national security, elections, and human rights. This provides a clearer pathway for authorities to prosecute those who intentionally or recklessly act against our democratic integrity, and it is a necessary change. However, we also urge the Government to ensure that clear prosecution thresholds and judicial oversight accompany these powers. Vague or overly broad definitions risk unintended consequences, and the line between influence and interference is not always clear, and the law must be careful not to blur that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThis bill also clarifies allegiance and espionage liability. It\u2019s a clarification of when a person owes allegiance to the Sovereign in right of New Zealand. It may seem technical, but it is an important fix. This provides greater certainty for charging individuals for serious crimes such as espionage offences, which go to the very heart of the loyalty of the State. Labour remains concerned about how this principle is applied to dual citizens or long-term residents, and whether the Government needs to make sure it fully considers its diplomatic implications in this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EIn terms of protecting Government information, we support the expansion of those offences that are related to unauthorised disclosure of Government information, including explicit coverage of military tactics and sensitive data held by a wider range of public bodies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EGood national security law is precise, not broad; is balanced, not blunt. This legislation alone will not keep New Zealand safe. Foreign interference is not only a criminal problem; it is a societal challenge that demands our awareness, our resilience, and coordination across all levels of Government and community. This bill must sit within a broader strategy\u2014one that equips New Zealand\u2019s public sector, local government, academic institutions, businesses, and communities with the knowledge and tools that they require to identify and resist foreign interference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EUnder the previous Labour Government, we took steps to modernise our national security approach and strengthen agency cooperation, but that work must continue. We want to continue to see this Government have a clear plan to resource and implement these capabilities effectively. Passing a law is one thing, but ensuring it works in practice is another. We must also make sure our communities are aware that we are resourcing these aspects, as that is also incredibly important. We must be transparent with the public about the nature of the threat that we face. If the Government wants communities to be resilient, then communities must be trusted as partners in this conversation, not passive recipients of State protection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EFinally, we must ensure that in countering external coercion, we do not become coercive ourselves. National security should never be an excuse for secrecy that excludes scrutiny. Oversight mechanisms are essential to maintaining that level of public trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s democracy is one of our greatest assets, built on transparency, fairness, and freedom. Those values are what foreign interference seeks to erode, and those values must also guide how we respond. Labour supports the intent of this bill because we believe our country must be equipped to defend itself from covert manipulation. But we will continue to push for stronger safeguards, resourcing, and oversight to ensure the defence of democracy never comes at the cost of democracy itself. Protecting New Zealand\u2019s sovereignty is not the task of one party or one Government; it is a shared responsibility. In that spirit, we support the bill moving forward, while holding the Government to account for how it is implemented. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u0022198aaac412ed42b9b37c532579b9d745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022198aaac412ed42b9b37c532579b9d745\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker, I\u2019m grateful to be able to rise in the second reading of this bill, the Crimes (Countering Foreign Interference) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m appreciative of the of the 49 oral submitters and 705 submitters, in general, that expressed their concerns. Some of those concerns were listened to\u2014well, they were all listened to\u2014but there were some amendments that were made as a result. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EI\u2019m grateful for them expressing their concerns and I\u2019m grateful that we\u2019re going forward with this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u00226f416a0cfef8484e9322490186287805\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f416a0cfef8484e9322490186287805\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendments recommended by the Justice Committee by a majority be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022d91a8b01524242fda928632887239633\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That the amendments be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 15\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000147\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000148\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002297c12f94b3154f7e8eb1dff489cbedcf\u0022\u003EDisputes Tribunal Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221495ea49ba0d439482b67cd26d1cd1a6\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022 data-id=\u00225f361ddd40cb4ba985535e24ad9c9d31\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225f361ddd40cb4ba985535e24ad9c9d31\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to present this bill to the House. The Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill amends the Disputes Tribunal Act 1988 to increase the financial jurisdiction of the tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000. The aim is to improve access to quick, low-cost dispute resolution so that people can resolve their disputes about claims of higher value: those over $30,000 going up to $60,000. In doing so, the bill enhances access to justice by providing an affordable forum for resolving more lower-value claims. It\u2019s estimated that up to 2,000 claims a year could benefit from this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EThe bill enhances access to justice for people who either cannot afford to take a claim to the District Court or choose not to because the associated fees would exceed the value of the claim they\u2019re pursuing. In essence, we\u2019ve got quite a good, efficient system that works for smaller claims of up to $30,000, and for a long time that figure hasn\u2019t been adjusted. There has been a lot of inflation, and we think it makes sense to extend that boundary further to $60,000\u2014a practical, pragmatic thing that will make a difference to the many hard-working New Zealanders who just want to get on with their lives and get their disputes resolved in a timely fashion. This increase in the jurisdiction addresses this justice gap, provides benefits for new claimants\u2014new people that would have abandoned it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EThe disputes tribunal has one of the fastest disposal rates of all the courts and tribunals in New Zealand and is one of the busiest forums in the civil justice system. I just want to take the opportunity to thank all the people in the court system working across this tribunal for the work they do on behalf of all New Zealanders. I don\u2019t think we take the opportunity to thank the people who work in our courts often, because though sometimes they work in stressful environments, under a lot of pressure, they do their best for the community, and we should acknowledge them today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EThe tribunal is resourced through a combination of user-pays and Crown funding. This recognises the tribunal\u2019s public and private benefits. The bill also amends the Disputes Tribunal Rules 1989 to introduce a new filing fee tier of $468 for claims of $30,001 or more to aid with cost recovery and reflect the higher private benefits of using the tribunal for higher-value claims. This is the only fee users pay. Whilst the new fee tier might seem to be a barrier to justice, it\u2019s a very small portion of the potential value of the claim. Disputes tribunal proceedings remain significantly cheaper than bringing proceedings to the District Courts where court and legal costs are incurred throughout the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EThe Government is also separately progressing a proposal through the Regulatory Systems (Tribunals) Amendment Bill which will give the disputes referees the discretion to order the respondent to repay the cost of filing fees to a wholly or partially successful applicant. This will help ensure the costs of pursuing justice do not fall solely on those who have been wronged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225b7e8615c3024ab68d7bc0784f53dfa1\u0022\u003EThe bill will ensure the disputes tribunal will continue to operate as an affordable and accessible way to resolve disputes and will improve access to justice for more people. In the justice space, we\u2019re focused on restoring law and order, but we\u2019re also focused on speeding up the wheels of justice so people can get on with their lives, get their disputes resolved, and continue prospering and doing well, like everybody aspires to do in this country. On that basis, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u00223a839db77dd346d481b7787754d05d96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a839db77dd346d481b7787754d05d96\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022decb0d1c3dc741c0b206e5dde35c2242\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022decb0d1c3dc741c0b206e5dde35c2242\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Labour supports the aim of increased access to justice and supports this bill, and that includes an increase to the financial jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EIn essence, what this bill does is it amends the Disputes Tribunal Act by increasing the jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000. This will mean that people who cannot afford to take a claim to the District Court or who choose not to because the associated fee exceeds the value of the claim would indeed be able to access the disputes tribunal for those claims. The bill also introduces a filing fee of $468 for those claims over $30,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re incredibly lucky in New Zealand to have our disputes tribunal system. It really enables greater access to justice. That\u2019s why we support this bill. It\u2019s a simple but important reform that will make a real difference to the thousands of New Zealanders who are seeking justice in a fair, affordable, and timely way. It keeps our courts from being clogged up and it enables issues which have become problematic to be resolved more quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe disputes tribunal plays a really crucial role and is often unsung in what they do in our justice system. It is often referred to as the \u201Cpeople\u2019s court\u201D: a place where ordinary New Zealanders can resolve civil disputes without any great cost and the complexity of lawyers or the long delays of the formal court system. Around 11,000 people each year use the tribunal to sort out their issues. While small by the standard of the higher courts, they can be absolutely life changing for those people involved. The tribunal was designed to make justice accessible, and it will continue to do that with this change today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EOver time, the realities of inflation and the rising cost of living have eroded the value of the $30,000 limit. What might once have been considered a substantial claim is now often a modest one, especially when you\u2019re a small business, a contractor, or even tenants trying to recover what they are owed. As a result, more and more people are being forced to give up a claim that they\u2019re wanting to pursue in order to have their case heard, and that is not fair and that is not justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe heard of some of these instances where a Master\u2019s student was paid $9,000 for a full year\u2019s work; she was owed $41,000 in total. But to bring her case to the tribunal, she had to forego more than a quarter of what she was owed. She quite literally had to choose between cutting her losses or facing the cost and delays of the formal court process. That instance is precisely what this bill seeks to fix today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EBy raising the cap to $60,000, around 2,000 more claimants each year will be able to pursue the full value of their claims before the tribunal. For them, this is not just an abstract number; it is wages owed, work completed, deposits unfairly withheld, or contracts broken. These are disputes that affect people\u2019s livelihoods, their business, their sense of fairness, and their mental health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EAccess to justice is the cornerstone of a fair society, and Labour has always believed that justice should not depend on the size of your wallet or your ability to hire a lawyer. The disputes tribunal, with its low filing fees and its straightforward process, embodies that principle. It allows people to come forward and tell their story, to be heard, and to get a decision without being drowned in legal costs. Updating its jurisdiction is about keeping that promise alive in modern and challenging economic circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThis bill also allows referees to order that a losing party reimburse the successful applicant\u2019s filing fee. That might sound like a small change, but it\u2019s symbolically important. When someone wins their case, they should not be left out of pocket for simply accessing justice. It reinforces the idea that fairness should be practical as well as philosophical.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ESome have questioned whether increasing the tribunal\u2019s cap will overburden it, but the evidence that we received is otherwise. The Ministry of Justice modelling shows that the system can absorb this change and that only a modest increase in the caseload is expected. The tribunal\u2019s referees are highly skilled and already deal with a wide range of complex and different issues that they resolve. This bill simply allows them to hear more of the cases that are already coming through the door, but which currently fall just outside of their reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ELabour also notes the recommendation of the Rules Committee last year, which suggested an even higher cap to $70,000 or even $100,000 by consent, along with clearer appeal rights. We support the Government taking steps in that direction and we will continue to encourage a broader look at just how our civil justice system serves ordinary New Zealanders. There is still more work to streamline the enforcement and to ensure that the tribunal decisions can be upheld without the added cost and delay of going back through the District Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EToday, this bill represents a meaningful and positive step forward. It modernises an important institution and it recognises the economic realities that many New Zealanders are facing today. We should not have a situation where people are deciding whether to pursue a claim or whether to be able to pay their rent or pay their bills, because access to justice is fundamental. This change makes justice more accessible for those who need it the most. At a time where the cost of living is biting hard, ensuring people can recover what they are owed, without spending thousands more to do so, is not just good law; it\u2019s common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThis bill is practical, it\u2019s fair, and it\u2019s overdue. It upholds the principle that justice should be available to every single New Zealander, not just those who are able to afford it. It gives more New Zealanders the confidence to stand up for themselves, to know their rights, and it helps keep our justice system working for the many, not just the few. For those reasons, we are proud to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ELabour has opposed an amendment at Justice Committee to introduce a fees waiver for the filing fee on the basis of hardship, reflecting the existing practice of the District Court. Accordingly, the New Zealand Rules Committee has already referred to increasing that. It\u2019s important to note that we will be bringing some more changes at the committee stage. We think there are further improvements that can me made to strengthen this bill, and it\u2019s important that we discuss those in few. We feel that there has been a missed opportunity, that there have been a number of other improvements that could have been made to the Act. Those include clarifying the subject matter jurisdiction of the tribunal, which is currently limited and could be expanded to include other disputes\u2014for example, those related to land or intellectual property. We know that that could be further strengthened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe also do have some concerns around the $468 filing fee. We consider that this may well be a barrier to some people bringing legitimate claims before the tribunal. There are legitimate reasons for a filing fee to cover the costs associated with a dispute resolution process; however, $468 is high to many New Zealanders right now\u2014significantly higher than the $260 filing fees for the District Court, and there is no associated fees waiver on the basis of hardship; there is such a waiver for the District Court. We believe it is not right that there should be a fees waiver for the District Court fee but no fees waiver for a disputes tribunal, which would be a lower form.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ESixty-thousand dollars is not an insignificant amount of money. A finding either way in $60,000 could have a really significant financial return for either party. Sixty thousand exceeds the limit in which a no-asset insolvency is available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ESo, while we support the bill in principle and we look forward to it going forward, we think it can be strengthened. We will be working to provide those suggestions and those changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022907d824fb2a24a83afa252b85428d791\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: This is the third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217be7e8e630d4c37821f2bcd322f313c\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014during the committee stage. Sorry, apologies for that. We think it further could be strengthened, but we agree that in a time that is incredibly difficult for New Zealanders, it is important that we note that the cost of living continues to be a real problem, and we believe that that filing fee is not sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207cc18abd5b744f6b266bb072ebe05ab\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Does Hipkins know you\u2019re making an announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1f9dd9db8044ae6bbe450bf59c30e36\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: Apologies on that. I\u2019ve been rushed this morning. But we did put those suggestions through; they have not been made to the bill. We still believe that that filing fee is too high and it will be prohibitive to those who want to pursue justice through the courts. It\u2019s a good change, but it could have been strengthened further. We think, in future, we would like to revise some of those changes to make access to justice even more available to those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022488a5d8560a545289f4a026629cbf922\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Policy announcement; check with Hipkins.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227a0b12879c8f4ce3899ab77d38261d31\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN\u003C/span\u003E: No matter how many properties someone might own, everyone should be able to go forward and pursue their claims in the tribunal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u0022259e4e75561d4669ae7d273bda2c144c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022259e4e75561d4669ae7d273bda2c144c\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand to also support the Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill. Now, we\u2019ve supported this bill since the first reading because we do think that what the bill is intending to do, in terms of raising the financial jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal from $30,000 to $60,000, is a good one, and we will see that more claims will be made and it will, hopefully, alleviate some of the burden that we\u2019ve seen on other parts of the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EIn saying that, again, something like this, in terms of increasing the financial jurisdiction, is not new. We have seen numerous increases over the last few decades. However, the threshold that we\u2019re currently seeing in terms of going from $30,000 to $60,000 is probably the most significant increase that we\u2019ve seen in a while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EI just want to touch on a few things that we did discuss during the committee stage. Again, while the bill is not the most substantial in terms of length, there are a lot of implications in terms of the operationalisation of a bill like this and what it means for the people of Aotearoa New Zealand. One of the things that we discussed at length is around, I guess, the policy intent in the first place of the rationale of increasing the threshold from $30,000 to $60,000. One of the things is whether other considerations have been made in terms of other ways to alleviate some of the pressures that we\u2019re seeing in our court system; again, being a key component of the rationale for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003ENow, one of the other things that we\u2019ve also mentioned\u2014in terms of the discussions that we had at the committee stage with the Minister in the chair, we are happy in terms of the increase of the threshold from $30,000 to $60,000. But the other thing that we\u2019ve kind of discussed at length during the committee stage is around the increase of the filing fee here from $234 to $468. Now, while on paper it looks like we\u2019ve doubled the existing threshold from $30,000 to $60,000, ergo, it makes sense to double the filing fee, as well, a key challenge is in terms of the significant increase of that threshold. Again, this is the most significant increase in the financial jurisdiction threshold for the disputes tribunal that we have seen in a while. The key aspect here is, if you are making a claim that is $30,001, your filing fee will also be doubled in response to that\u2014and whether we think that that is actually the right setting and whether other things could have been considered that phase in or proportionalise the filing fee. Because, again, for a lot of people now during the cost of living crisis, $234 for a filing fee for the disputes tribunal is not insignificant, but now you are doubling that. That $468 is a lot of money for a lot of people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EWhile we were at the committee stage, there is an assumption that was made, because there was no genuine evidence of this other than from the Minister, but, also, from the officials\u2014the assumption being that, if you were to make a claim that could be $30,000 and above, theoretically, you would be able to fork out the $468 filing fee; or if you are going to be successful in getting your claim or, either way, you are able to have that filing fee reimbursed. But that still relies on the fact that people need to have that filing fee and that cash up front, and pay for that application in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EWhile people can now make a claim up to $60,000, there is no sort of, I guess, empirical evidence other than the assumption that we have seen throughout the committee stage that suggests there\u2019s any rationale behind the idea that people making claims above $30,000 naturally have nearly $500 that they\u2019re able to pay for this in the first place, which is one of the reasons why the Greens supported the Labour Party\u2019s amendment from the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, in terms of having an opportunity to look at the hardship situations where the filing fee could be waived. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003ENow, we see that ability to waive filing fees or to waive certain court fees in other jurisdictions, particularly in the higher courts, but we don\u2019t get to see that in disputes tribunal because, again, the assumption is that the smaller courts like the tribunal will remain significantly cheaper for the applicants than bringing proceedings in the District Court. But the District Court has that ability for hardship and for considerations and for waivers of that fund. So we are disappointed that the Government hasn\u2019t decided to consider that particular option of a waiver, because it would be in line with the idea of natural justice and, also, in terms of being a democratic society and having the ability for everyone to access justice as a rule of law here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003ENow, there are a couple of other considerations that were made during that committee stage. One of them is also a lengthy discussion, both in terms of the select committee stage but also in terms of the committee stage, around the fact that, you know, the disputes tribunal being a smaller tribunal and being, I guess, something where lawyers may not always be needed or may not always be represented, and the ability for people\u2014now with the increased financial jurisdiction\u2014to be able to seek additional support if they\u2019re in a situation of hardship, such as legal aid, or other forms of advice, such as using community law centres. So, again, it was something that fundamentally comes down to: with the increase in financial jurisdiction, will we be seeing a more prominent role that\u2019s being played by the disputes tribunal, and how are people able to rightfully access some of those services, now with a higher filing tier threshold? Also, the ability for people to now increase that to claim or make an application of up to $60,000\u2014whether there should be more awareness or more allowances given to access some of the, I guess, universal or free services that we are seeing that are currently being used in other services and other courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EOverall, like I said in the beginning, the Green Party understands the policy intent of this bill, and we do see this being a good start. Again, there are precedents of increase in terms of the financial jurisdiction, which is one of the reasons why the Greens support this bill. However, we also need to address the broader challenges that we\u2019re seeing in our court system around the ability for people to access justice. We have seen certain improvements that are being made in terms of access to justice across various jurisdictions. But as the Minister himself said right at the beginning, we are seeing an approach\u2014and we\u2019re seeing a bottleneck because of the approach the Government has decided to take\u2014that may not be in line or may not be providing stress relief, I guess, in some ways, to the court system, which is why we\u2019re seeing a bill such as this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EThere is a general concern in terms of whether the ability for us to relieve some of the higher courts such as the District Court and above, in terms of having some of that being allowed to be put through the disputes tribunal, actually, in some ways, fails to address the bigger issue we\u2019re having in our court system, which is that we\u2019re not being able to process bills fast enough. Yes, there are other bills that are being introduced in the House, such as the Judicature (Timeliness) Legislation Amendment Bill, but we\u2019re not seeing that being responsive enough to what our communities really need in this current environment, particularly in terms of the number of judges. Yes, increase the District Court judge by one, increase the High Court judge by two\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9563282de53471e90798dfbe4efdcb6\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: Back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022298ac00139c343979752b00b9d86b0b9\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to listen to someone who is a tobacco lobbyist, frankly. So I\u2019m going to keep on going with what I\u2019m saying, which is broadly in line with the bill and the intention of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d295bf6fade4f47823f6d199815fee1\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That was clearly a slight to my comment to the member, and suggesting that I\u2019m a tobacco lobbyist is something that he should withdraw and apologise for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e40254c5678e41a0a4bb76f6ba91e6ef\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Did you take personal offence to that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad3d833a2a7a4c068da3dcc3a93cbee9\u0022\u003EHon Casey Costello\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a234ffa497ca43bd88a4a33ac7f712c0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The member might want to offer that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a5a946bc7494ad79ad1bb995c5845b2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EThis does bring a broader question, because this is relevant to the bill because this is the intention of the bill, which is to address the bottleneck and the pressure on our court system. So we would seek that the Government actually do more to genuinely fix the court system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022 data-id=\u0022242d17384a8a45f0ba0727a134bf19f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022242d17384a8a45f0ba0727a134bf19f3\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, it gives me great pleasure to rise and speak in this third reading of the Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill. ACT in Government is about actually fixing what matters, and this is an important bill that adds to everything that the Government and ACT is doing to support our court system and ensure people actually have access to justice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EThis is a small but important amendment. We\u2019re increasing the jurisdiction of the disputes tribunal\u2014up to $60,000; so that\u2019s the amount that they can look at\u2014and that\u2019s going to improve the ability for people with disputes to be able to get in front of them. So that\u2019s a really important, practical thing. It is actually fixing what matters. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EThe Minister of Justice, supported by the excellent Nicole McKee, the Minister for Courts, is addressing our issues around our access to justice. We\u2019ve already seen an improvement in court timeliness, and I know Minister McKee is going to continue to work on that throughout this term, because it is very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EAgain, I am very happy to commend this bill. We\u2019re fixing what matters, and let\u2019s just get on with getting this passed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022 data-id=\u00227f8f1ef904354d858f4c067a51761280\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f8f1ef904354d858f4c067a51761280\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs):\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Disputes Tribunal Amendment Bill at its third reading. I think it\u2019s worth noting that this is the third reading, as we kind of went down a wrong track with a previous speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThis is, as has been stated, a very pragmatic and practical step and, again, it\u2019s an indication of how this Government is moving us forward and getting the important tasks done. It is about improving access to justice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First firmly believes in upholding fairness and accessibility to the justice system. The bill aligns to our core values of equity and fairness and ensuring that more people can access an appropriate justice mechanism by increasing the threshold to $60,000. There are mechanisms under which the fees can be addressed through existing processes within the justice system. Therefore, the bill is very effective and will deliver exactly what it\u2019s aiming to do, which is access to justice. I commend the bill for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e8e2ccd8099a4d25b43191fcd66a0e26\u0022\u003EOffshore Renewable Energy Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227dc72cc6e0e346c5be9837ee5fa53a2e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb93a6513c104fe8ba86c55f691f0ea4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb93a6513c104fe8ba86c55f691f0ea4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I call on Government order of the day No. 4. I call the Hon Matt Doocey. Is there a legislative statement? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab17a302e824832a90760dea3445e8e\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: I raise a point of order, Madam Speaker. It appears to me that there is no item on the Order Paper that is ready to be presented. The Government is not ready to present the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill, and they do not have a legislative statement to present, so my suggestion to you is that it would be appropriate to ring the bell and if in 10 minutes the Government is not ready to present that, then this bill should be discharged. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254ac10c9dff2478d884670055f76640c\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Madam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022db26016145a74f808826c89352e72459\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db26016145a74f808826c89352e72459\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute, I\u2019m going to take some advice because I actually have taken a call. The member stood. But the clock is ticking. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b55757684c1b4b4089fd654e8a9dfca2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b55757684c1b4b4089fd654e8a9dfca2\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister for Energy: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I present a legislative statement on the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222af188764ac44ccda951e6613dac8250\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cd00464644247d98d254f08ea712129\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill be now read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EThank you for the opportunity today to talk about the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. I do rise on behalf of my good friend and colleague the Hon Simon Watts, Minister for Energy. I think most people would agree with this bill coming in for its second reading\u2014that its time has come. This is a bill that is supported by many Kiwis. We do know the support it had for the first reading, and it has then gone through the select committee process. What we do know is that the select committee process is an important time for people to have their say. It actually is quite often the time that parties do get together. We\u2019re criticised quite a bit that we\u2019re not as collaborative or cross-party, working on bills like this, so I do want to acknowledge the select committee that has worked quite diligently on this bill as it comes back through for the second reading as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003ERenewable energy generated offshore, including from offshore wind farms, could support New Zealand to meet its long-term energy needs, ensuring the transition to net-zero carbon emissions by 2050. Let\u2019s be very clear, because what we are going to hear from Opposition parties is the challenging of the Government\u2019s position in this space. Let\u2019s be very clear: we are committed, we know this is important for Kiwis, and we know it\u2019s important for \u201CNew Zealand Inc.\u201D Actually, when you think about it\u2014about rebuilding this economy\u2014it is important that we get our energy sector right and our offshore energy sector right, which can support this Government\u2019s focus on reducing the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EThe Offshore Renewable Energy Bill establishes a legislative regime to govern the construction, the operation, and the decommissioning of offshore renewable energy developments. When you look around the main provisions of this bill\u2014and, as I said in my introductory comments, I do want to acknowledge the hard work of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, who have worked hard on this bill as well\u2014it starts off with a two-stage permitting regime designed to give potential developers greater certainty and to enable the selection of developments that best meet New Zealanders\u2019 interests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EI suppose you would start with the position of \u201CWhy is this bill needed?\u201D It delivers on a commitment to put a regulatory regime in place for offshore renewable energy, and that is important. It\u2019s part of the Government\u2019s Electrify NZ plan. This is something that we have spoken of not only in Government but, actually, in Opposition, when we stood on that policy of electrifying New Zealand, and that is the mandate we got in the last election\u2014to bring bills like this through the House. International developers are exploring offshore wind projects in New Zealand, and this bill will give them certainty to invest. What we do know is that when people want to risk their private capital to invest, it is the role of Government to give them certainty and clarity, and that\u2019s what this bill will give them today. The bill will also enable risks to the Crown and to the public from offshore renewable energy, such as decommissioning of infrastructure, to be appropriately managed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EI suppose, the next point to raise is \u201CWhat does this bill do?\u201D Well, firstly, a feasibility permit gives the holder certainty that no other offshore renewable energy developers will be approved to develop the same site while they undertake feasibility studies. It does this by giving the holder the exclusive ability to apply for an offshore renewable energy commercial permit, as well as the right to apply for relevant environmental consents, resource or marine, in the permit area. It\u2019s also about how a commercial permit must be obtained before construction begins, and it provides assurance that the project is ready to progress to construction. It will complement the environmental consents and other approvals required to build and operate offshore renewable energy infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EIt also, you might be interested to know, limits the ability for developers to land-bank certain areas or impede other developments. Permits will be \u201Cuse it or lose it\u201D, which I think is important with the provisions, meaning that if a project fails to start or progress, the area can be made available to other developers. The Minister for Energy will consider commercial permit applications and must have regard to readiness to carry out the proposed development, compliance with requirements in the legislation, conditions of the applicant\u2019s feasibility permit, and the applicant\u2019s ability to put in place an acceptable financial security arrangement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EVery important for this Government is the focus on consultation and engagement with relevant M\u0101ori groups. Applications for feasibility and commercial permits will be required to consult with relevant M\u0101ori groups ahead of submitting their applications. The Minister for Energy must consult with relevant M\u0101ori groups before granting any permit, and the provisions in this bill relating to upholding Treaty settlements and associated rights and interests align with those in the fast-track approvals legislation. I must say, it was encouraging to hear, through the submissions process, the support for fast track and thinking about how we deal with offshore renewable energy. What we do know is that, under the last Government, the issue was around consents; there was interest, but obviously people were waiting\u2014it was reported publicly\u2014eight years for consents. That can\u2019t be continued, so that\u2019s why this Government, quite rightly, is making a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EUnder decommissioning and financial security, the bill requires all permit holders and owners of related transmission infrastructure to decommission their offshore renewable energy infrastructure at the end of its life. The bill also requires financial security arrangements to be put in place and maintained to cover the cost to the Crown in the event that the permit holder or infrastructure owner fails to meet their obligation to decommission. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EWhen we look at regulation powers, the bill includes regulation-making powers to set out procedural and implementation matters, such as additional matters that the Minister must have regard to when determining whether to grant a permit, and the provision of information. The powers include the ability to set fees and levies to recover the costs of the regulator. Shortly after the bill is passed, I intend to introduce feasibility-permit and cost-recovery regulations so that the regime is operational as soon as possible. That is, really, the focus from this Government: ensuring that we, quite literally, are getting things done, and it\u2019s great to see the focus here of moving at pace and ensuring that we will operationalise this regime as fast as possible as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003EJust to conclude, the amendments will enable the Government to use a new secondary legislation instrument to designate specific marine space where permits could be invited for offshore renewable projects where there is a pause on granting new permits for seabed mining under the Crown Minerals Act. It\u2019s a real privilege to take this opportunity to speak on this bill this afternoon. It\u2019s a bill that I\u2019ve been watching through the legislative programme, one that I\u2019m very supportive of, and I support my colleague the Minister for Energy, Simon Watts. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u002268c743ab000c40d4ac27af9d4cf3b4ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002268c743ab000c40d4ac27af9d4cf3b4ad\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E As it did at the first reading and as it did during the select committee process, the Labour Party supports this bill at the second reading. This is a timely bill and, actually, it\u2019s a very collaborative one. It builds on work that was under way under the previous Government that was picked up and carried on with by the current Government, and it is much-needed legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWhen we talk about the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill, the obvious application is in wind farms. Of course, we are experiencing, frankly, an over-abundance of wind today, and so I just want to recall in the House today that people in Canterbury, people in Kaik\u014Dura, people in Tasman-Nelson, and now people in Wellington are experiencing some pretty severe wind conditions today. Much as we love the energy that can be generated by wind, there is some pretty terrible stuff going on, and so I hope that everyone is staying safe, staying inside, and looking after their neighbours as much as possible, and that we\u2019re generally doing all that we can to get ourselves through this incredibly windy period today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a Taranaki girl, born and bred in Taranaki\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022280891e131724115b3984c1d396ea4b1\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Whangamomona. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6aef570be734d05a68bdc58b5a76731\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from Whangamomona, which, to be fair, is right inland. But I mostly grew up in New Plymouth and spent some time in H\u0101wera, as well, and things like that\u2014there you are, Mr Brewer. It\u2019s a windy place. We think of Wellington as being windy, but something about Taranaki is that the wind offshore is pretty constant. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c118dcace67448a3a074dfccaeb028fc\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: World class\u2014it\u2019s world class. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255f3a26bcb5b4bc78b24891e951c9676\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a world-class wind, which does make it highly suitable for offshore wind farming, and, of course, we also have an abundance of wind onshore in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting things about offshore wind farming is that there is a fairly constant flow of wind and of air so that the turbine is turning maybe about 40 percent of the time, which is actually pretty good for land-based wind turbines. It\u2019s about 40 percent of the time in, say, the Ruahine wind farms and things like that, and the offshore wind farms can turn pretty much all of the time. So it\u2019s a very reliable source of power with offshore wind farms, and it\u2019s a source of power that we need to tap in to if we are going to meet out climate commitments. If we are going to do our bit to meet the existential threat of climate change, we need to move to renewable energy, and this is an excellent way to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere is very good reason for the support across the House for this particular bill. There are some wrinkles in it that I do think we need to have a bit of a look at, and I know that they will be examined quite closely during the committee of the whole House stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI want to draw the House\u2019s attention to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee\u2019s report, and to the particular section on managing competing uses. Now, this is quite an important issue that needed to be worked through, and it has been worked through at the select committee. The interesting thing is that sitting in the legislative statement from the Minister for Energy is a really interesting bit, talking about progressing changes to the bill through an Amendment Paper. I\u2019m going to direct the House to paragraph 6 in the legislative statement presented by the Minister, where it says that the Government has actually announced that it has plans \u201Cto progress changes to the Bill through an amendment paper. This is intended to address issues raised by submitters and Select Committee in relation to competition for space between seabed mining and offshore renewable energy.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThis is not merely a theoretical concern. We\u2019ve had in the past year or so a huge push for offshore seabed mining off the south coast of Taranaki\u2014the same south coast of Taranaki that would also be an ideal place for an offshore wind farm. Those two uses are going to be particularly difficult to put together, but here we have reports from October 2024\u2014so about this time a year ago\u2014of wind power firm BlueFloat Energy cancelling its plan for wind farms in New Zealand, and the major reason was that a seabed mining firm wanted to mine offshore from the south coast of Taranaki. Those two uses are incompatible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a bit of a frustrating one, because an offshore wind farm is something that is clearly compatible with our climate goals, but seabed mining for iron ores is not necessarily compatible with our climate goals. We actually need to have a think about which of those projects should go ahead in that really incredibly valuable space off the south coast of Taranaki. So I\u2019m pleased to see that the Minister is intending to bring in that Amendment Paper. We\u2019ll want to have a really close look at it during the committee stage to work out whether it\u2019s going to meet the issues that were raised by submitters during the select committee process and the issues that have been raised in this House right from the start. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also an issue there that I\u2019m sure that tangata whenua will want to be sure is examined closely because, again, it\u2019s an issue to do with M\u0101ori-Crown relations there, and how resources that belong to the whole country are used. We\u2019ll look forward to that debate at the committee of the whole House stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere is one other set of issues that I wanted to raise around offshore wind farms. It is pretty important that we go ahead with them, particularly around places like Taranaki. Taranaki has called itself the energy province for a long time. I remember, as a girl growing up there, seeing the lights of the oil-drilling rigs offshore, and, of course, there\u2019s still a fair amount of work around fossil fuels that still goes on around Taranaki and there are wells drilling for it, bringing it up, and using it. Now, we are very clear that the use of fossil fuels needs to stop if we are to meet our 2050 climate goals, and that will have to take a transition, but one of the difficulties for us as a labour party is the jobs that are associated with that\u2014the jobs that are associated with mining, with oil wells, and with that drilling for fossil fuels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere are people who have worked in those industries who have developed really high levels of skill in managing critical equipment and in managing and actually creating the machinery, adapting it to the particular conditions, and maintaining it, and they are valuable jobs. Of course, as we move out of using fossil fuels, that means that jobs go as well, and we do need to find viable industries for people to have jobs in that is good, fulfilling, worthwhile work. It just seems to me that the offshore wind industry is one of those areas where people can work and where there are jobs to be had. They are trade jobs. They are jobs where our sparkies can be employed, where our engineers can be employed, and where workers of all sorts can have work to do that actually really contributes to the country, that is well-paid, and that gives that sense of standing\u2014the sense that when they get up and go to work in the morning, they are doing a job that is worth doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003ESo as we move away from using fossil fuels and as we move and transition through to a green and renewable economy, this is one of the tasks we must engage in: ensuring that people continue to have good and meaningful work. Offshore wind farms seem like an ideal place for that kind of work. It keeps people employed and it actually generates good for New Zealand. It is part of the work that we must do to become an energy-independent nation, and that\u2019s a great goal for us to have. Why? Because we do not want to be dependent on overseas fuel suppliers. We actually want to have our own energy independence here, in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EFor a whole variety of reasons, we support this bill. We support this bill because it has been a collaborative effort, beginning in the last Government and continuing through into this Government. We support this work because it supports our climate goals. We support this work because it will create jobs for people. This is a good bill. There\u2019s stuff we still need to iron out\u2014stuff we want to see at the committee of the whole House stage\u2014but Labour is proud to stand in support of this bill today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00227d1db3dc0b2e4bb9814a264ec01c3465\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d1db3dc0b2e4bb9814a264ec01c3465\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec20e6ce0ae24ef58285b5fadf0bc60e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec20e6ce0ae24ef58285b5fadf0bc60e\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E It is my pleasure to talk to the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill, and, as you might expect, the Green Party does support renewables. However, we do have some things to say about this bill given that the Government is promoting fast track as a solution to everything, and we\u2019ve seen what happened with fast track with Trans-Tasman Resources being written into the legislation and BlueFloat floating away. It is time that we focused on the renewables transition we want rather than simply seeking to extract more minerals and destroy our reputation internationally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265f8a5709b8247fba7641e509b4fc6c9\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: You can\u2019t build wind turbines without minerals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237958ae400434f9f9ee25a9822c3922f\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, that\u2019s an interesting comment\u2014you can\u2019t build wind turbines without minerals. Actually, there is so much potential. We see in Scandinavia wooden wind turbine towers. We see so much circularity in wind now, but I am surprised that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfa657003e75468bb9035b4c9c7dfbeb\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I just need to check. Is the date 2025 or 1825?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227f7362de835d4ab9a7e4afc7e57a2e1b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Are you trifling with the House, Mr Court?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebb71a6f9ecb45da8b329f1cc9f967e2\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: That is not a point of order. Sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c21ee51b34c54daab79b5aa7db9ec601\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I did not accept the point of order. He was trifling with the House. Mr Willis, please continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022172e4dc61b4c4cdca3409890d9cbe73b\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. We are used to the trivial nature of the Government. However, this is a serious matter. It\u2019s a serious matter that does merit consideration, and I appreciated being able to sit through the submissions at the select committee. We heard concerns from iwi and hap\u016B about the need to be engaged, the need to be consulted, the need to be participating in the offshore renewable transition that we\u2019re seeing. We heard the concerns about Trans-Tasman Resources very strongly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWhat I would have loved to have done was spend some time in the Cabinet when this bill was being discussed, because I wonder how the Hon Shane Jones was able to manage the restrictions we require on extraction to enable the offshore renewables transition. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis bill is something we will support because we want to see renewables powering our nation. We want to see our nation fully powered by renewables\u2014not simply our electricity system; our whole energy system. We want to see our mobility powered by renewables. We want to see the end to the de-industrialisation that is under way. We want to see our industry and our manufacturing supported by renewable electricity. In that sense, we certainly will support this bill. What we saw and what we heard through the submissions was the need for hap\u016B and iwi to be involved, and we\u2019re pleased to see some strengthening. It\u2019s not all the way we would\u2019ve liked but it is some strengthening for participation in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also heard that there are real risks even though we\u2019ve got some controls. There are still risks if there are multiple uses in that area, and these risks don\u2019t magically disappear when we limit some things, because if we\u2019ve got large boats that are seeking to operate in the area, we have risks to big bits of kit\u2014to our wind turbines. We\u2019re not wholeheartedly pleased with where this has got to, but there are definitely benefits there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThe most important issue, I think, was that we do need to make sure that iwi and hap\u016B are more involved in what happens in the marine environment. This was the most prominent issue that came up through submissions, and I\u2019m not convinced that we have got there yet with this bill. I think we will need to improve it when we take Government in 2026, but at least this gives us something to work on. As my colleague from Labour talked about, this is something that we have worked on collectively across the House through the previous Government to this Government, and we will keep working on it in the next Government as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWe have a focus to make sure not only that we build the renewables we need but that we involve the communities that are affected in those buildings. And this is where we take issue with fast track, because what fast track is doing is cutting out the community voices, cutting out iwi and hap\u016B voices, and that is problematic. That is why we have taken a position on fast track that will ensure that we revoke those consents that we don\u2019t deem consistent with community interest, with our climate interest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EI also want to address the natural and built environment legislation, the fast track legislation, the enabling legislation, not just the offshore renewables legislation but the lack of legislation for renewables onshore as well, because we had a promise from this Government that by June 2023, 2024, we would have a national policy statement for renewable electricity generation. That still has not been delivered. We had a promise that we would have national environmental standards. That still has not been delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003ESo while it is good to get this bit of legislation through, we\u2019re seeing a real problem with the rest of the renewables transition, the faster, quicker, easier renewables transition, which is onshore, and we don\u2019t have the legislation that was promised back last year. We are still waiting, and I particularly take issue with this because in my pre-parliamentary days I have worked on renewables. There was the Board of Inquiry Report into the Proposed National Policy Statement for Renewable Electricity Generation in 2010. It was gazetted and implemented in 2011. Since then, numerous reviews of the National Policy Statement for Renewable Electricity Generation have made it really clear that it made no impact whatsoever in enabling renewable electricity generation through the Resource Management Act. It\u2019s made no difference whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThere have been attempts to replace it because it was, I believe, the first national policy statement. There have been attempts to replace it, but they have not been completed, and this is what we\u2019re seeing here\u2014we\u2019ve got one little bit of legislation that has taken quite some time beyond December 2024, when it was going to be delivered, and now we still do not have the National Policy Statement for Renewable Electricity Generation. We\u2019re still waiting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis is really problematic because we\u2019ve been told that this Government wants to double or triple renewable electricity generation, yet it can\u2019t deliver on time the legislation we need to meet that target. That\u2019s the problem. We\u2019ve got to get it right. If only this Government did not rush legislation and get it wrong so often. If the Government took the time to do the work instead of trying to fast-track things and causing social disruption, they could choose to do things right and deliver what they promised. Unfortunately, they failed to deliver far too often.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill. We\u2019re pleased that it has got here finally\u2014finally. But we also want to see the National Policy Statement for Renewable Electricity Generation delivered, with national environmental standards, so that we can fast-track onshore wind and solar, so that we can build the renewable nation that we could be if we had a Government that knew what it was doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis is really, really important because at the moment, the $10 billion per annum of fossil fuels we import costs us, costs everybody, costs every household heavily, in a cost of living crisis. And that that $10 billion we can wipe off the slate by generating our own electricity here, by powering our households, our industry, our businesses, our mobility with the electrons we generate onshore and offshore here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003ESo we will support this bill but we do not feel as though all our concerns have been addressed. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u00229c427e4e171042398a02ed966fb333a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229c427e4e171042398a02ed966fb333a5\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. On a day when Wellington reminds us how much power the wind has, it\u2019s fitting that we advance this bill to turn energy into jobs, investment, and reliable electricity for New Zealanders. ACT supports this bill wholeheartedly at its second reading. The select committee\u2019s work has produced a clearer, faster investor-grade regime, putting flexibility first, commercial second\u2014with transparent decisions, obligations to decommission, of course, and engagement with iwi and hap\u016B being important too, and the ability to manage the safety and coexistence at sea of different types of activities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThis bill fixes what matters. It provides certainty over ambiguity, pace over drift, and, above all, accountability over open-ended process. This bill\u2019s not about slogans; it\u2019s about unlocking billions in private capital and safeguarding the marine environment and other users. Over the mid to long term, offshore renewables, especially offshore wind, will complement hydro, geothermal, solar, and the growing contribution from utility scale or rooftop solar. Together, these resources can lift supply, they can sharpen competition, and they help keep power affordable for Kiwi households and businesses. But we should also be honest. Variable renewables actually need a reliable, firm supply so that they can do their part of the heavy lifting. For the foreseeable future, not just as a temporary measure, New Zealand will need flexible thermal generation powered by gas and, yes, of course, that reliable trusty black nugget, coal. We need to keep the lights on when the wind is low and the sun doesn\u2019t shine, or maybe the rain doesn\u2019t show up either, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ll always need thermal. In fact, proponents of renewable projects have told me\u2014and I know they will have told other members of this House and the Government\u2014that without reliable thermal firming, the type of renewable energy projects like offshore wind simply won\u2019t get off the ground, because those developers cannot sell offshore wind or any other type of renewable to their customers unless they have an insurance policy in thermal firming to back it up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, the committee engaged seriously with the challenge of competing uses in the marine environment. Investors simply won\u2019t commit to a project if they feel that their need to use a space can be undermined by somebody else coming along and getting a consent after they\u2019ve already started planning. It\u2019s important that we make space for different types of activities, and that\u2019s why this bill does provide space for offshore wind projects but also recognises that we do need to get those critical minerals from places like the seabed in offshore Taranaki that the former speaker from the Green Party was so concerned about. While he proposes you can build wind turbines with sticks and bits of wood, I tell you what: the wind turbines coming out of North America, Europe, and China right now are made out of critical minerals; they\u2019re made out of epoxy resins made from oil and gas and coal. You cannot deliver renewable energy without the minerals that go into manufacturing these components. Look, just to reflect back on something we often hear from the Greens, educate yourself greenies, because you can\u2019t have one without the other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, we should also learn from Australia, particularly our cousins in Victoria, where declared areas for offshore renewables and transparent milestones give developers clarity and give communities confidence about what\u2019s coming next. New Zealand must be at least as bankable as our neighbours in Australia because developers will judge whether to invest in Australia, if it\u2019s easier, or New Zealand, if it\u2019s easier. They certainly won\u2019t come and invest in New Zealand if we make the playing field too hard to play on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EPassing the bill is necessary but not sufficient, and the previous speaker from the Green Party alluded to the fact that this Government is getting on with fixing what matters in terms of a National Policy Statement for Renewable Energy Generation and for electricity networks. We\u2019ve consulted on those in the past few months\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294ba5b14ea814ff9b934a94e333bedca\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: You promised it in June last year. Where the hell is it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227c039bd7f63b4d1a9b809777c09929e8\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and I would have expected that member to know that and, if he was really involved, to actually have made a submission on what should be in those national policy statements. I understand that the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, Chris Bishop, will have more to say about the results of that consultation in the near future, and I\u2019m sure it will address many of the concerns that the Green Party member had, no matter how misinformed. As I said, passing the bill is necessary, but it\u2019s not sufficient. The next action, consistent with my delegation from the Minister Responsible for RMA Reform, is to deliver an environmental management framework for offshore wind that provides a clear and reasonable consenting pathway across the coastal and marine area. Applicants need to know upfront what standards apply, how environmental effects will be managed\u2014for example, on marine mammals, on the sea floor\u2014and how long decisions will take. If we get that right, we move from torque to turbines, from potential to actual projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EWe also need smart coordination on the shore side. I do agree with that member from the Green Party that transmission planning and making sure we\u2019ve got the resource management system coordinated is really important so that we keep pace with new generation as it comes on stream; ports capable of handling the large components, the wind turbines, the towers and the bases; and training pathways so that New Zealanders can take the jobs this industry creates. The wishful thinking of the Labour Party, since announcing a just transition and cancelling an entire industry like offshore oil and gas exploration, is like giving people a pink slip and a pat on the head and a \u201Cwish you well\u201D. This Government does not agree with that approach. We believe in making sure that people have the skills and are supported to take a role in this industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EWhen consenting, when infrastructure, and when skills and jobs align, costs fall, timelines shorten, and confidence grows. That is what this Government is all about. That is what fixing what matters looks like\u2014targeted reforms that reduce uncertainty, that reward progress, protect the environment, and make private investment do the heavy lifting. That\u2019s why ACT is trusted with important work streams in this Government. We focus on outcomes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ceb64c25aed4002b42311dcddeb543b\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f0c8776f67149e09221872df91e07e9\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014rules that are clear\u2014from the giggling Gertie over there\u2014decisions that are timely, and responsibilities that are enforced. That\u2019s what this Government is doing. That\u2019s what ACT\u2019s role in this Government is to do, again, through the resource management reforms that complement offshore wind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ESo, on this very windy Wellington day, let\u2019s harness what we\u2019ve already got. Let\u2019s pass the bill. Let\u2019s deliver the environmental framework next and show that New Zealand can welcome offshore renewables on the same terms and conditions as Victoria, Australia, Europe, and the United States. ACT supports this bill. Let\u2019s fix what matters and secure reliable energy. Let\u2019s get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022 data-id=\u00220447fd76b93245f3ab0e72b4a3511eb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220447fd76b93245f3ab0e72b4a3511eb2\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill in its second reading. As the previous speaker has alluded to, we\u2019re not having a lack of wind across the country today, but probably the wind that we are all experiencing across the country is something that we don\u2019t want to see at the levels they are at the moment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EThe previous speaker also spoke about how this bill can create jobs and investment, and another important part is around energy security. I do want to highlight the select committee, the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, that\u2019s chaired by Andy Foster, and the work that they\u2019ve done on the bill. I had the opportunity in the first reading to take our first reading speech on this, as well, and there has been a number of changes to the bill by way of amendments. I\u2019m sure that there will be further amendments through the committee of the whole House stage, but it\u2019s good to see the work that\u2019s been done from the chair and the committee members.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EJust as I alluded to in that first reading speech, a number of us\u2014I guess it\u2019s almost all of us in this House, at some point in time\u2014get to see the opportunities across the country. I\u2019ve had the opportunity to go to Taranaki and talk to some of these companies that are looking at setting up these wind turbines. I also had the opportunity this year to travel to Taiwan, where they\u2019ve actually got some of these already up and running. Obviously, seeing these structures and how big they are, you actually get a presence of the size of these turbines that we\u2019re talking about and the planning that needs to go into them. It\u2019s not just the rules and the regulatory regime that needs to be set up but the logistics of setting one of these up in different ports. I know they were talking to me about the construction sites\u2014how they would actually even piece them all together was quite a puzzle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EThe fast-track bill: I do want to speak about that, as we hear often in the House about the fast-track bill and, at the moment, I think there\u2019s 22 renewable projects in the fast-track bill. Some of them are the hydro opportunities, some of them are solar, but some of them are the wind opportunities. It is disappointing, as we\u2019ve gone through fast track, that the Opposition parties have not realised the potential to actually get some runs on the board, especially in the renewable space. We often hear\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022427e703cfa0f4b3498f00f3614b3d728\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: There are already dozens of consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228eedc6c01b874481ae7bb91c2daee8a4\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE\u003C/span\u003E: Now we\u2019re hearing from the other side that some of these things are consented, but we\u2019re actually trying to create certainty, and when we come to renewable energy, you would think that, across the House, we could come to a bipartisan situation where we go, \u201CYes, we can see the potential here\u201D, and fast-track and actually take away the red tape and the rules around this stuff, and actually get some runs on the board. So it\u2019s great to see that these projects are included, and, actually, let\u2019s see some of these getting developed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EThrough this bill, we see that it\u2019s just a two-stage permitting regime. It\u2019s the feasibility first\u2014we hear, also on my site visit and just discussing with these potential companies that they need to have the feasibility opportunity, and then going into some commercial permits after that. So that, to me, is very, very sensible. I do just really want to say how important it is to see these projects now and developed. I think, across the House, we should just be celebrating the fact that we\u2019re actually getting some of this work done. The bill does see that this will enhance the clarity around the legislation. It does give some flexibility\u2014and again, because it\u2019s a pretty new concept here in New Zealand, we\u2019re going to have to have some flexibility, some understanding, as we get these under way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EBut, importantly, we need investor confidence, and I think the previous speaker again touched on that with the oil and gas ban. We don\u2019t want to see people rising in this House saying, \u201CHey, maybe through fast track this will be consented, but we\u2019re actually going to have another look and maybe we\u2019re going to decline it further down the track.\u201D That isn\u2019t going to give confidence to renewable energy, just as in other sectors when people say things like : \u201COh, maybe further down the track, we\u2019ll really look at this and decline things.\u201D That won\u2019t give confidence to investors to come here and invest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EI do highlight, and I think we have heard across the House, the competing interests, and there are obviously things like seabed mining and wanting to use the same kind of areas as the offshore wind. I think that\u2019s an important issue to discuss. I think you could look at it something like spatial planning; in the Resource Management Act, we look at spatial planning on the land, and maybe here we need spatial planning in the sea, so it\u2019s that same kind of concept. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226327e49d349443e693f980fcd245b385\u0022\u003EAnother really important part, as well, is the decommissioning of this infrastructure. As great as it will be to get the infrastructure in, there will be a time and a place to actually have these decommissioned, and to have a plan in place for that. So this is about futureproofing energy security and infrastructure\u2014and on that, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2ec6ae3c46a4b648a2d3c6e47bb905b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2ec6ae3c46a4b648a2d3c6e47bb905b\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this legislation and in the spirit of the cross-party comity which has gripped the House in supporting the passage of this bill. I\u2019ll highlight one thing from each previous speaker that I do agree with, starting with the member Deborah Russell, when she pointed out that it was good to see the Government continue the framework that was set up by the previous Labour Government. I say \u201CLabour Government\u201D deliberately, because sometimes speakers across the House call it a Labour-Green Government, but, actually, there has never been a Labour-Green Government. The first term of the Labour Government was a New Zealand First coalition Government, with confidence and supply from the Green Party. The second term of the Labour Government was a Labour majority Government with a cooperation agreement with the Green Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d48a762596cc4ca3aaa75e8e47ffd6d5\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Are you trying to distance yourself?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002211909bb819ac4a319572175709846d4a\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not to distance ourselves; it\u2019s just to factually outline the things that have happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EThen there was the contribution from the member Scott Willis. Of course, like the Government members, I have to say I agree with everything that Willis says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002242aa266eeedf4612931d1594d8c94cf0\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Oh!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e5c20376280498b860ef18fec7d20d8\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: I agree with everything that the Willis on our side says.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EThe member Simon Court said that we should look to Australia for our energy policy and our wider policy settings. I do agree with aspects of what he said. Australia has set a very aggressive and impressive emissions reduction target of 62 percent to 70 percent. If you contrast that with New Zealand\u2019s, of 51 percent to 55 percent by 2035, I do think there are things we can learn from them in that regard. The member Simon Court also said that ACT exercised disproportionate influence in this Government and was trusted with important jobs, and we certainly agree with them in that regard; they\u2019ve definitely exercised disproportionate influence. If you look at the things like the Regulatory Standards Bill, if you look at the Treaty principles bill, if you look at charter schools\u2014if you look at all sorts of legislation\u2014we definitely agree with him that ACT has definitely been a powerful and driving influence on this Government. We agree with him in that regard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225afcf4470ead4ccd9ea0b0fd6e19b781\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: ACT and New Zealand First\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229350e49ef0754a958d096dc0fa61fe5d\u0022\u003EFRANCISCO HERNANDEZ\u003C/span\u003E: ACT and New Zealand First\u2014yes, definitely. I\u2019ll turn to the contribution by the member Jamie Arbuckle, because he said that it was important to have a security of energy policy and to ensure a stable transition between different energy policies across different types of Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003ELook, that\u2019s why we\u2019ve called on them to not reverse the oil and gas ban, because one of the things we need to do is give confidence to people who want to invest in New Zealand. I do believe we are giving them confidence in the House today, because the House is sending a very strong signal that you should invest in offshore renewables and that you should invest in renewable energy policy, because that is something that every single political party in this House does agree on. The message is: invest in renewables. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EWhat we don\u2019t want the Government parties to do is give false hope to people who might want to invest in the sunset oil and gas industries, because that is something that we, in the Opposition, have taken a united stance on in saying, \u201DNo more investments in that regard.\u201D In that regard, we do want to give policy certainty, and the policy certainty we do want to give is partly being granted through this bill, is for investors to come to New Zealand, invest in offshore renewable energy, and invest in renewable energy in general, and not to invest in the declining sunset fossil gas industry, because that\u2019s not something that\u2019s going to be continued and supported across the next Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229e993a4a461347e9bc28e6c1bb3bae63\u0022\u003EWhile we do support this legislation, we do feel that this is one step forward and 10 steps back in the context of the wider energy policy taken by this Government. There have certainly been some positive initiatives, like this one, like the wood and biogas energy strategy that was announced, either yesterday or a couple of days ago, but that has to be contrasted with the wider cuts and what has been taken away in terms of clean energy policy. One of the things that they took away when they first came into office was the decarbonising industry fund, which was a really important component. They took away clean energy subsidies, which was also another part of the transition to a clean energy policy. While we do welcome this as one step forward, we do decry the 10 steps backwards that this Government has taken on energy policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022 data-id=\u0022be3bf3931cb5402897d64138827b36c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be3bf3931cb5402897d64138827b36c1\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E Well, thank you very much, Madam Speaker. This bill delivers on our Government\u2019s commitments to put a regulatory regime in place for offshore renewable energy, as part of this Government\u2019s Electrifying New Zealand plan. If you let me just provide a little bit of an update: obviously, this morning, the country has seen a significant impact on our electricity network, in particular at the top of the South Island, with the top of the South Island and the West Coast losing power. I\u2019m glad to report\u2014Madam Speaker, you may be interested in this\u2014that Reefton is now back on, and all substations are also back on across the top of the South and the West Coast. I want to recognise those staff who are out there in these conditions, providing repairs to our network, and acknowledge their work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThis bill today is not merely administrative; it is a measure to unlock a significant new source of clean power for our economy. Offshore renewable energy has the potential to help grow our economy, powered by clean energy, and reach New Zealand\u2019s target of net zero carbon emissions by 2050. International developers are exploring offshore wind projects in New Zealand, and this bill will give them greater certainty to invest, as well as allow them and the Government to select the developments that best meet our national interests. The bill also enables risks to the Crown and the public from offshore renewable energy, such as decommissioning of infrastructure, to be appropriately managed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EI want to use the time that I\u2019ve got to run through a few of the key features of the bill and feedback that we have received during the select committee process. The bill introduces a requirement for all forms of commercial offshore renewable energy infrastructure to obtain two permits: a feasibility permit and a commercial permit. The feasibility permit grants the holder exclusive rights for a specified site for a defined period. This exclusivity is vital. It provides a secure window for developers to undertake the complexity and costly feasibility studies and apply for the necessary environmental consents. It does this by giving the holder the exclusive ability to apply for an offshore renewable energy commercial permit, as well as the right to apply for relevant environmental resource or marine permits in that area. Feasibility permit applications will be assessed on a comparative basis and awarded to the projects that are most likely to deliver benefits to New Zealand. Secondly, a commercial permit must be obtained before construction begins. This permit provides assurance that the project is ready to progress to construction, and that process incorporates the necessary function that limits the ability for developers to land bank certain areas or to impede other developments. Permits will have a use-it-or-lose-it provision, meaning that if a project fails to start or progress, the area can be made available to other developers. I think that\u2019s pretty sensible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThe bill requires all permit holders and owners of related transmission infrastructure to decommission their offshore renewable energy infrastructure at the end of their life. The bill also requires financial security arrangements to be put in place and maintained to cover the cost to the Crown in the event that the permit holders or infrastructure owners fail to meet their obligations to decommission. This is, of course, as we will all know, consistent with the standard practice internationally. New Zealand implemented similar mechanisms for oil and gas in 2021 through amendments to the Crown Minerals Act 1991. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EOther protections in the bill, of course, include the ability to have safety zones to protect the infrastructure and people from intentional or accidental harm. The bill enables safety zones of up to 500 metres to be established around offshore renewable generation infrastructure and substations, and this will prohibit unauthorised people or vessels from entering or undertaking certain activity in that area. The bill enables the administration, monitoring, and enforcement of this regime, and it is intended that the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment undertake that role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThe bill empowers enforcement officers and safety zone officers to undertake a wide range of compliance and enforcement activities. The bill also includes a range of offenses and penalties for breaches of the regime, from $3,000 to $10 million in fines, through permit revocation or imprisonment for a term not exceeding two years. Significant fines and penalties were considered necessary in certain instances to provide an effective deterrent, given the financial capability likely to permit holders. The bill includes regulation-making powers to set out procedure on implementation matters, such as additional matters that the Minister must have regard to when determining whether to grant a permit and the provision of information. The powers include the ability to set fees, levies, and to recover the costs to the regulator.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EShortly after the bill is passed, we intend to introduce feasibility-permit and cost-recovery regulations so that the regime is operational as soon as practical. This bill was transferred to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee in December last year. The committee received 71 written submissions and 21 oral submissions. I want to thank those who submitted for their interest and their constructive contributions. I also want to thank my parliamentary colleagues, many of which are here today, for their help and consideration in these matters. The committee recommended changes: greater flexibility for determining financial securities regarding decommissioning, removing the cap on the total duration of commercial permit, and, of course, defining the type of projects that are not covered by the legislation, such as research and demonstration projects. These changes will improve the workability of the bill and increase certainty for developers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EA key recommendation from the select committee concerned the issue of competition for space between offshore renewable energy and seabed mining. To provide necessary investment certainty for both sectors, Cabinet has agreed to an amendment that will allow the Government to use a new secondary legislation instrument to designate specific marine space where permits for offshore renewable projects can be invited. This action would occur while a pause remains granted for new seabed mining permits, under the Crown Minerals Act, in the designated area. This measure will create clear pathways for development, ensuring that our offshore wind potential can be realised without undue regulatory friction. The Amendment Paper, which is currently being drafted, will be debated during the committee of the whole House phase. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EWe have covered the main features of this bill, and I want to conclude by refocusing the House on the true opportunities that this bill unlocks. This bill does more than set up a regime for offshore renewable energy; it creates an economy that is going to be powered by clean energy. It is a catalyst for high-value job creation across the country, particularly in our regions. The billions of dollars in private investment that this framework attracts will translate directly to demand for engineers, specialised marine technicians, and other high-value jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EBy providing a clear, robust, and certain regulatory foundation, this bill guarantees that New Zealand is ready to capture this massive economic opportunity. With that, I therefore commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u002215c5a1023a78422b89ae152cd24b9d2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215c5a1023a78422b89ae152cd24b9d2f\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr Speaker. As I rise to take a call on this piece of legislation, I reflect on how this House is often slow and often is playing catch up. I\u2019m not targeting anyone in this, because I think successive Governments have dropped the ball or haven\u2019t actually been ahead of the ball. And so we\u2019re here and we support this legislation, but it\u2019s probably something we should have been considering 20 years ago. It\u2019s probably something we should have been considering at the start of the new millennium in terms of what we need to be doing to ensure that we burn no more fossil fuels, that we stop extracting those from the earth, that we find ways to ensure that we meet our Paris climate targets to make sure that we\u2019re doing what\u2019s right for future generations so we can look them in the eyes and say, \u201CWe did what was right for you.\u201D But we didn\u2019t, and that\u2019s on all of us in previous Governments to consider. But we\u2019re here and we\u2019re making some movements, and it is the right thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EAs I look and read parts of the legislation, and obviously the impact it has specifically for us who are in Taranaki\u2014it impacts our people, it impacts our environment, and it also impacts our climate. As we went through the process in previous years around looking at decarbonisation, as we worked on the process around looking at Taranaki 2050 and what it could be\u2014a future beyond oil and gas\u2014this definitely has been front and centre in terms of offshore renewable wind or renewable energy and what it could be and what it should be, and how we get the regulations right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EI just have a few comments to make, because we\u2019re happy to support it and move on. But I just reflect on the fact that there are, as was said by my colleague the Hon Deborah Russell earlier, several organisations and businesses that have been working on business cases and on studies on what this could be in terms of renewable wind offshore. Of course, we\u2019ve had BlueFloat who were there, who were in the mix and have pulled out, have moved on, because of the challenges of getting the regime and getting the settings right. Because, obviously, as a business case, you need certainty to make sure that your business case stacks up. But we also have others that are hanging around. We also have Wind Quarry Zealandia\u2014I think they\u2019re called\u2014who I remember meeting with a number of years ago, who had been looking at the possibility of work off the coast of Taranaki. Also, the Taranaki Offshore Partnership, which brings in the New Zealand Superannuation Fund and Copenhagen Infrastructure Partners, who are still looking at what could be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003ESo this piece of legislation, as it makes its way through this House, is part of setting out and laying out certainty, not only for the ocean floor but also for the marine life, for\u2014like I say\u2014the people, the workers, and the economy of Taranaki and of New Zealand, and, as has been said by many people this morning, the fact is that we are in a position where we need to invest heavily in what should be offshore\u2014and any form of\u2014renewable energy to make our country not only more affordable but the greenest country in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EMy other point I want to make is around decommissioning. I made sure I flicked through and tried to understand what this legislation was doing around decommissioning, because that has been a huge bone of contention for us in Taranaki, in terms of the T\u016B\u012B Area oil fields back several years ago. But it also has been an issue for this Parliament, or for the Government of the time. It was just under $450\u00A0million of taxpayers\u2019 money that was spent in terms of the decommissioning. Tamarind had abandoned the field and had gone back to their home overseas, and it left the uncertainty and the potential environmental disaster of what could have been if the Government of the day didn\u2019t step in, didn\u2019t front up with the money, with taxpayers\u2019 money, for the decommissioning process to ensure it was sealed correctly, to ensure there were no potential environmental issues. We don\u2019t want that to happen again, because we know that the purse strings in the Treasury are tight. We know that we need to be investing money in clean energy, into things like health, into homes, into making sure that we have good jobs. So when the Government had to spend $450 million because a private firm had just abandoned and gone off back home across the ocean, then we need to make sure that doesn\u2019t happen again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003ESo looking at what this legislation does: there are obligations regarding decommissioning and financial security to ensure the permit holders and owners of those reflected places do the decommissioning and are liable for it, which we need to make sure. And during the committee stage, I\u2019m sure we\u2019ll be asking a lot of questions to make sure we get that right because we don\u2019t want another T\u016B\u012B oil field debacle. We don\u2019t want another rookie business riding into New Zealand, doing their thing, abandoning, and then the Government and us taxpayers having to foot the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EThe other one, just finally, is around the purchasing of permits and what that looks like. We need to reflect on that, because we don\u2019t want this legislation to enable someone to be able to buy a patch of ocean floor, hold on to it\u2014you know, invest not in infrastructure, not in building any wind turbines, but sitting on it\u2014to be able to sell in the future and to make a profit, and nothing to actually be done. So we need to make sure, in terms of how that looks when it comes to offshore renewable energy, that we get that right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EFinally, I just want to mention the benefits of offshore renewable energy. Looking around the world, I think there\u2019s a real challenge because of fast track and because of seabed mining and the uncertainty that creates. It\u2019s dangerous and it\u2019s potentially a huge issue for us in Taranaki, but more than that, for our environment, for our ocean floor, but also for our marine life and what is there. I\u2019ve looked around the world at several offshore wind farms and, in fact, where they actually enhance the ecosystem of an ocean bed, where there\u2019s actually artificial reefs. And there\u2019s been even\u2014I forget what they call it, but it\u2019s padding, that when they\u2019re drilling the holes to put the wind turbines in, they have cushions around to protect the different sea life from the vibrations, and what it actually does in terms of the regeneration and the bringing back to life of what is there and what should have been there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EI think we need to take this into the committee stage and ask some serious questions to make sure that it is fit for purpose, to make sure the decommissioning regime is set up to protect us as taxpayers, but also to protect the environment and to protect our workers. We support this legislation, and we look forward to it heading into the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd5acf556ca44081a5da390b946888fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd5acf556ca44081a5da390b946888fc\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E Well, this is a good bill, but you wouldn\u2019t get that, necessarily, from listening to the speech of the previous member, Glen Bennett. He brought up so many \u201Cif\u201D, \u201Cbut\u201D, and \u201Cwhat\u201D questions, which made you question whether this is a good bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EBut it is a good bill and it\u2019s a good bill for Taranaki, I say to the MP from Taranaki, and it\u2019s a good bill for New Zealand. This is a bill that\u2019s about saying yes\u2014yes to jobs, yes to economic growth, yes to foreign investment, yes to energy security, and yes to meeting our climate commitments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been a pleasure to be part of this bill as a member of the Transport and Infrastructure Committee. We had a lot of submissions on this. What was really fantastic was seeing the number of foreign investors that were coming to the table and saying, \u201CHere\u2019s what we need to unleash this sector in New Zealand.\u201D I\u2019m really impressed and proud of the fact that there is a lot of foreign investment that wishes to come to New Zealand, invest in regions like the great Taranaki region, and power this sector up for the future. But there are a number of things that we made in select committee based on the feedback that we had from these foreign investors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard it today\u2014that these foreign investors need certainty and they need to make sure that the economics can work because this is a tough sector to actually make viable for commercial businesses in terms of setting up the infrastructure, setting up the pipeline that\u2019s required to connect to the grid, and then making sure that the commercials actually work. So we did make a number of changes to the bill around the feasibility permits: changing the permitting regime; making sure that the decommissioning obligations were clarified, including being clear about what infrastructure is excluded as part of the feasibility and commission regime; and also dealing with the competing offshore renewable energy applications and how that was to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EThere is, I think, substantial opportunity for New Zealand in this area. I\u2019m looking forward to getting this bill passed as quickly as possible. We know that there are going to be some amendments in the committee stage that deal with the new secondary legislation instrument, and the Minister Simon Watts has outlined that today. So this is a great day for energy security, jobs, the economy, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cb5e4e305d5e4380987bc18791715e6a\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002223d6075530894394906b13b68bb0fbb4\u0022\u003EConsideration of the Second Reading of the Mental Health Bill\u2014Leave Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022 data-id=\u002242bf8c56594b4a9e91e1866adc5b379f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242bf8c56594b4a9e91e1866adc5b379f\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave for the House to consider the second reading of the Mental Health Bill, if the House concludes consideration of the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill before 1pm today. I note the Opposition spokesperson on mental health will be here to consider that seeking leave. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d7aa8fa408e24ecf885dfb6f7ea803bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d7aa8fa408e24ecf885dfb6f7ea803bd\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re seeking leave. Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is objection. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002205ac02f4ba1c4d51989249156c8920ad\u0022\u003EOffshore Renewable Energy Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002208d490c8849f425980bc7a790a3f5f8c\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000331\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5654348b54341e29ffaa9c5985e0b20\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5654348b54341e29ffaa9c5985e0b20\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. On a day that T\u0101whirim\u0101tea\u2019s reminding us of his strength and power, I find myself speaking to the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. I had the privilege of attending a hui in Taranaki about three or four years ago, along with the then Minister the Hon Megan Woods, who met with iwi about this very issue. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003EI wanted to let some of the members opposite, whose characterisation of our position on this side of the House is not entirely accurate, know that we were early starters on this issue and it\u2019s taken a long while for this current Government to get to this date. It was already in train when we were in Government. I can tell the member Mr Court, perhaps as he casts his eyes towards Australia, he can wave the Taranaki workforce goodbye, because, in that time, that\u2019s what\u2019s happened. So we definitely need to do this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003ETaranaki iwi want to be active participants in this issue. My advice to any overseas investor that wants to come here is that you beat a path to all stakeholders in Taranaki and make sure that those relationships are strong and that they are active in allowing that investment to move forward. Failure to do so would be a mistake, and, actually, it should not be a tick-box exercise through this legislation. So we will be looking closely at it at the committee of the whole House stage to make sure that we have the best piece of legislation that we can have. There are many communities who will be relying on us getting this right. So that\u2019s my brief contribution to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u002253e2032dfd8549e6a0064d41e348a9f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253e2032dfd8549e6a0064d41e348a9f9\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you very much. It\u2019s great to rise in support of the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. It\u2019s certainly good news for my home province of Taranaki\u2014South Taranaki, to be more specific. It\u2019s also good news for the guardians of the New Zealand super fund, which, of course, have in their guardianship over $85 billion. Of course, the super fund is looking at an investment in offshore wind farms, which is well exercised and well under way, as the previous speaker said, with the Copenhagen infrastructure partners. That will pursue the development of significant large-scale offshore wind farms in the South Taranaki Bight. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThe guardians of the New Zealand super fund are very excited about this, and they will be pleased that this is progressing through select committee. Incidentally, the guardians of the super fund have also announced that they are looking at other investment opportunities, of course, particularly in infrastructure and particularly pertaining to roads. But I digress. As others have said, this gives greater certainty for developers to invest in offshore renewable energy developments. It\u2019s unlocking that offshore investment, which is fantastic. It also manages the risks to the Crown and the public from offshore renewable energy developments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003ESo, look, the National Party are committed to this as part of our Electrify New Zealand, which, of course, is all about the goal of doubling renewable energy generation by 2050\u2014we are now delivering. New Zealand has not currently got a regulatory regime for offshore renewable energy, and so we are progressing this legislation to fix that and to enable this new form of energy generation. Again, establishing this regime is an important step to giving those investors the confidence needed\u2014the huge billions of dollars\u2019 worth of confidence\u2014to construct such assets to help New Zealand\u2019s increasingly electrified economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EOf course, despite what the Opposition may tell you on the black and white tiles, we are committed\u2014National\u2019s committed, this Government is committed\u2014to meeting New Zealand\u2019s long-term energy needs, hence why you\u2019re hearing a lot about the energy sector coming from this Government. That includes transitioning to net zero carbon emissions by 2050. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u002240a89c889f3343b8b3f8033213b751ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240a89c889f3343b8b3f8033213b751ac\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m really pleased that the House had the opportunity to hear from my colleague the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe to correct the record, really, that this is a piece of work that Labour started because of our commitment to unlocking the potential for renewables, and it has been picked up by this Government, which we are really happy about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t repeat all the comments made by previous members\u2014I think we\u2019ve got the message loud and clear that this is a pretty good bill\u2014apart from to put into context the importance of the Taranaki wind farm developments, because what it will do with that offshore wind project is generate up to 1 gigawatt of electricity, and that\u2019s equal to 1 billion watts. So what that means is that it\u2019s equal to some of our largest hydro stations and more than eight Harapaki Wind Farms combined. The developers have said that it is really good in terms of bringing confidence back into the sector. So what matters for Taranaki matters for the rest of the country. It means keeping the lights on in Auckland. It will be jobs and growth in regional New Zealand. As has been said, it will help meet our net zero climate goals\u2014although we do have some cynicism about that, given everything else that\u2019s going on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EI think it is important to note, also, the parts of the legislation, and the regime in particular, that Labour will be watching really closely to ensure that this can do what it says on the tin. That is around clarifying how maritime space conflicts will be managed in terms of mining and aquaculture; it\u2019s about strengthening environmental compliance obligations under exclusive economic zone and Resource Management Act frameworks; and as my colleague the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe has said, enhancing Treaty of Waitangi recognition and M\u0101ori engagement. That is going to be critical. We will be keeping a close eye on that, given that sometimes we see one side of the ledger enhanced and enabled under Christopher Luxon\u2019s Government without the surrounding protections and safeguards to ensure that the transitions can happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also going to ensure that there should be ministerial oversight or guidance for setting decommissioning and financial security requirements, and we want to see improved information requirements and transparency for permit applications and ownership changes. So a lot of that stuff is the devil in the detail of the regime. They are caveats.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EHowever, as we have heard today in the House, it\u2019s a good piece of work, started by Labour, picked up by this Government, and we do support what is happening in the House today. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022992f42098006487f988e4f9e08cdc339\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022992f42098006487f988e4f9e08cdc339\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m very pleased to stand in support of this bill, as everybody else around the House has, as well. I just thought I\u2019d mention it\u2019s rather ironic, with all the wind we have outside at the moment, that a lot of the turbines would not actually be able to operate because they turn off at 90 kilometres an hour or thereabouts, and I think there\u2019s been some wind speeds in excess of 200 kilometres now in the South Island today. So it shows you how excessive the wind actually is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThis, as has already been spoken to, is very important for Taranaki, and I\u2019ve got to support what Adrian Rurawhe has actually said over the engagement with M\u0101ori. It\u2019s critically important that, at the earliest possible moment, proposals such as these start with conversations with iwi. It\u2019s a strong start and it\u2019s one that I strongly encourage, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThe actual size of this, as the member has just spoken\u2014it\u2019s talked up to maybe even up to 2 gigawatts of generation capability here. Now, if we think about the current stored generating capacity of all the wind turbines in New Zealand at the moment just being north of 1 gigawatt, this one farm can be actually immense\u2014huge, in fact. One of the challenges of it is, actually, when you bring that amount of electricity into the supply stream, what effect that actually has. We spoke about the fact that one of the potential perverse outcomes of Lake Onslow was actually nullifying the potential interests of having other electricity generation occur. Well, this wind farm opportunity potentially has an effect similar to that, in some ways, in itself. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThe size of these farms is immense. We spoke about the fact that one of these generators\u2014I think it was Jamie Arbuckle who mentioned that he viewed it overseas in Taiwan. Well, in some of the proposals that have been put forward, the size of the tower of one generator is similar to the size of the Sky Tower. They are immense structures. One of these wind turbine generators is potentially up to three times bigger than the land wind generators. That\u2019s how big these structures are. The distance between these wind generators can be up to 2 kilometres apart. That\u2019s how big the actual span of each of the blade\u2019s diameters are, and for them not to be disturbing each other with the wind flow, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThe South Taranaki Bight is a very attractive area, not just because of the world-class wind that they have there but also the immense amount of area with low draft or low depth of water. They need to install the pile-driven turbines in drafts less than 60 metres deep, and the South Taranaki Bight happens to have an immense amount of area. It\u2019s recently been established that you can easily have gigawatts of wind generation and the potential of the Trans-Tasman Resources proposal existing together. They can\u2019t exist on top of each other, no, but there\u2019s so much area out there that you can actually coexist with it as well, and that is actually being looked at as we speak.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003ESo with that\u2014I know that I\u2019m standing between everybody\u2019s lunch in this session here\u2014I\u2019m very pleased with the work that\u2019s been done in this year. It has been a long time coming. We\u2019ve mentioned when this work began, and all of the entities that are looking at these offshore wind proposals have been waiting for this for some time. We\u2019ve got a number of parts still to go within the House here with the committee of the whole House and the third reading, and I commend the bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u002277344883fce445289633336e7a3cde96\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277344883fce445289633336e7a3cde96\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan. This is a five-minute Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u0022c695eac506ae432a9f39a763c128ccf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c695eac506ae432a9f39a763c128ccf7\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to support the Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. My colleagues Scott Willis and Francisco Hernandez have spoken on why the Greens are supporting this bill. I also want to bring additional perspectives to this as well, which is why I sought this particular call. The Greens understand the importance of offshore renewable energy, and I think, as our energy spokesperson, Scott Willis, has said, when we\u2019re looking at the future of energy generation, this is something that is also in line with our obligations under the Paris Agreement and what is supposed to be our emissions reduction plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EIn terms of offshore renewable energy, I want to mention two additional aspects of that. While, again, in the bill, there are lots of really good operational aspects, particularly around specific requirements for consultation with M\u0101ori groups, there are additional things I want to mention in the broader context of offshore renewable energy. One of them is around the way that offshore renewable energy in Aotearoa is being investigated and also invested in. If you\u2019re looking at South Taranaki in terms of the offshore renewable energy and, particularly, if you\u2019re looking at wind energy, one of the biggest supporters and backers of that is actually the New Zealand Superannuation Fund. When we are looking at the potential, not simply in terms of energy generation but also in terms of our ability to use our own sovereign funds to support domestic entrepreneurship and production of renewable energy, we will be able to see compounding effects that benefit Aotearoa on the whole. I think that is something that really deserves mentioning when we\u2019re looking at the opportunities when it comes to offshore renewable energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EAgain, while this bill in isolation is something that is good and is moving towards a direction of renewable energy, it cannot go without saying that the combined effect of what the Government is doing regarding other bills, including the repeal of the oil and gas ban and also the additional, I guess, subsidisation of offshore oil and gas, is preventing or affecting our overall effort of having a renewable and sustainable energy source here in Aotearoa. I think that needs to be said as well because when we are looking at\u2014to give an analogy\u2014making a muffin, even when most of the ingredients are fine but even if it\u2019s just one component in there that is potentially poisonous, it means that the whole muffin is inedible. That, in some ways, also speaks to the fact that while there are good initiatives that we\u2019re seeing being put through in offshore renewable energy in terms of some of the projects around wind energy by the fast-track legislation, the overall intent of things like fast track and the overall intent of the Government to repeal the oil and gas ban are not moving us in the direction that fulfils our obligations under the Paris Agreement. Again, when we are looking at something like this, we cannot simply look at something in isolation. We also need to look at the broader Government agenda when it comes to energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EThe last thing that I want to touch on more broadly\u2014again, all of the things I\u2019m saying would be things that we are really interested to tease out with the Minister during the committee of the whole House stage\u2014is that energy production and renewable energy is a really important aspect. This has been well articulated by a number of people in the House around this bill. One of the things, about this particular bill that should be part of a bigger patch that is also being looked at is the need for us, under the recommendation of the OECD, to start breaking up some of the gentailers and see how we can actually make the energy that we\u2019re producing affordable for the overall population of Aotearoa. At the same time, what initiatives are we also using, on one hand, to produce renewable energy sources but, on the other hand, to support people to make the right decision to make energy consumption more efficient? The Greens do support this bill, and we have a number of questions that we would like to discuss in the committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc86c3723ada43ac8b36ea769ad9564e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc86c3723ada43ac8b36ea769ad9564e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The House stands adjourned until 3\u00A0p.m. today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id202510224174d036fe304e40a029dd849c0221fd000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 12.34 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"