"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228c38d55248264df08725a5a92bd78155\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 23 OCTOBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc9ebfa011274068a738400a13e5b492\u0022\u003ETHURSDAY, 23 OCTOBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 3 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292d31ecb66414fc18d021a1a3d23324a\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c569402494d47f3be2be6e01367354c\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022896526251dc84a2e9480d8b91b90b1f9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022896526251dc84a2e9480d8b91b90b1f9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229b3a643f9b8540dc99a5d9da2a3a57f6\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b48add776934b8397c197f0ff8f392a\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022e10dfdc91a5a4d1bb7ee6d7631e6e330\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e10dfdc91a5a4d1bb7ee6d7631e6e330\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Today, the House will adjourn until Tuesday, 4\u00A0November. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f1463ef058d434186db3a27a5f1713c\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Yay!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022545bbdcc9c8e4e9581b12f678d209c20\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Indeed. That week, the House will consider the Education and Training Amendment Bill (No 2), the Medicines Amendment Bill, and the Land Transport Management (Time of Use Charging) Amendment Bill. Wednesday morning will see extended hours for the consideration of Treaty of Waitangi settlement legislation. On Thursday, there\u2019ll be extended hours for Government business, and, in the afternoon, Mike Davidson MP will deliver his maiden statement, and there\u2019ll be a one-hour special debate on the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on its inquiry into banking competition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221682802ffcfa41d3adf92d5669080ff7\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Commitee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284a20c52f9a84af3968fc0a7fb64c514\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Commitee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002280b4267fed244f4ca7a237939f60a3d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280b4267fed244f4ca7a237939f60a3d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No petitions have been presented to the Clerk for presentation. Ministers have delivered five papers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00224d95d6c85b5043d480bdff5d4d54b4c3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224d95d6c85b5043d480bdff5d4d54b4c3\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EThe 2024-25 annual reports of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe Broadcasting Standards Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand On Air, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe Registrar of the Environment Court\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe 2025-26 statements of performance expectations for the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003EBroadcasting Standards Authority, and \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand On Air.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed81fe6c99624cfcbd86f3d0121b6564\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed81fe6c99624cfcbd86f3d0121b6564\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I present the 2025-2030 Strategic Intentions of the Office of the Ombudsman. Those papers are published under the authority of the House. Five select committee reports have been delivered for presentation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u002290c8b5b6e0214099b48ac95588feb39c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290c8b5b6e0214099b48ac95588feb39c\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReports of the Education and Workforce Committee on:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe petition of Dr Lawrence Xu-Nan MP, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe petition of Sophie Liu\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Environment Committee on:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe briefing on BIOFIN, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe inquiry into seabed mining in New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the review briefing on the 2023-24 annual review of New Zealand Green Investment Finance Limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022572a72ffc499465a96cf3572c02bcccd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022572a72ffc499465a96cf3572c02bcccd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The reports on the briefing, the inquiry, and the review briefing are set down for consideration. The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of two bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u00226f557c5a546842a09985d5843cf0a535\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f557c5a546842a09985d5843cf0a535\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EDeepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill, introduction, and\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ESocial Media Age-Restricted Users Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002289fe549f25e24ccab1b86fb8dde81516\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289fe549f25e24ccab1b86fb8dde81516\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225492512a2090442087a4cba02ac9f451\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229027497c2cf6459686317b21bc1de953\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022417d4247c4af4be2b79ac858319a72f4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Internal Affairs\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u002200dfcecf2f154bc9b3cd3596d8dd75bc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200dfcecf2f154bc9b3cd3596d8dd75bc\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Internal Affairs: How is the Government ensuring that New Zealand\u2019s firefighters are properly equipped and resourced to safely respond to fires happening across Aotearoa recently?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022 data-id=\u00226278990a89854b19972477f6436befc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226278990a89854b19972477f6436befc2\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs: I answered a near-identical question at great length yesterday, and I would like to refer the member to those answers. I would also like to give thanks to the work of Fire and Emergency New Zealand (FENZ) at this very difficult time, with several areas under a state of emergency with fires and severe weather. Their work is always invaluable and deeply valued by New Zealanders on a day like today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022412bc8791f47437abb48ab5b5cbeba7e\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Are firefighters correct when they say they have to work with equipment that consistently breaks down, with no fleet replacement strategy, and are right now across the country putting their safety at risk protecting our communities from severe weather?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251ff30106df04a9ba669d0b0f6c3cb51\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs, I don\u2019t believe that that statement is correct. The Government, in the last two years, has seen FENZ introduce an asset management plan, which had not been put in place\u2014for some reason\u2014between 2017 and 2023, after FENZ was formed from the voluntary and professional wings of New Zealand\u2019s firefighting. The replacement schedule for fire appliances I traversed in detail yesterday, but the Government currently has, I believe, 78 appliances on order. They tend to take 18 to 24 months to deliver, because they\u2019re highly specialised equipment; five of those are aerial. In total, FENZ is spending around $20\u00A0million to $25 million each year on upgrading fire appliances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f75e6d99ae46a7b448f01ed9303e4a\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that in the past year, the fire truck compliance servicing provider has done 446 emergency call-outs, more than one a day, due to breakdowns of the ageing fleet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9cfd0eddb154e91b972279681c71ff9\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs, I don\u2019t have verification of that exact figure in front of me, but it may well be true. There are thousands of fire appliances in New Zealand. Of course, if there was to be one call-out for a breakdown each day, then that\u2019s something, perhaps, the member could imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022793d95470b1e4ca796bc6dbc8a879677\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the state of the fire appliances is dire and failing, leaving firefighters stranded on the way to calls, at station, or even at incidents without water while internal firefighting?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3c516835e74cd79b0a768da257ba3f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister of Internal Affairs, no, that characterisation is not correct. I\u2019ve been advised that, for example, there has only been one recent breakdown that led to a two-minute delay in getting to a fire\u2014that\u2019s in the past several months, at least. So I think the characterisation of routine breakdowns and danger is simply not sustainable. I do note that due to current industrial negotiations, there appears to be a concerted campaign by some in the fire service, and particularly the New Zealand Professional Firefighters Union, to try and emphasise any incident and present it as being routine when, in fact, that characterisation is not true. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a97a760105ec4f6e816c9393851b6033\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u002291fda06b8f13478ea07d210f2f42706e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291fda06b8f13478ea07d210f2f42706e\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022 data-id=\u00226bcd59260c994375a8035e2c83998587\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226bcd59260c994375a8035e2c83998587\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the Prime Minister: Yes, and I would particularly like to reference the efforts of our Minister for Children, Karen Chhour, in improving the safety of children in residences. That has come down 14 percent in the last two years. It\u2019s the first time that there has been a reduction of harm to children in State care, as we understand it, in the country\u2019s history. That is really quite an achievement, and a poignant one in the wake of the royal commission, which laid bare the history of brutality that has affected so many people and damaged them for life. This is very good news, and it has come because of a precise and deliberate set of actions by the Minister to improve the quality of staffing, to require staff to wear uniforms, to crack down on contraband\u2014for example, by requiring staff to have clear bags so that they couldn\u2019t smuggle contraband in\u2014and by proactively managing behaviour in the sites. All of this has led to a 14 percent reduction in young people being harmed. That is really fixing what matters and is a good example of what the Labour Party should be thinking about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221eb9e61311434a4597d0c58fea68f751\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement \u201CWe\u2019re ready to meet with the unions at any time.\u201D; if so, why is Fire and Emergency New Zealand refusing to turn up to scheduled bargaining with the Professional Firefighters Union?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8689e5c00c34d7e80f20e6e1f4309e0\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I certainly do stand by that statement, and I understand that within 10\u00A0minutes of me answering a question on behalf of another Minister yesterday, the Professional Firefighters Union got back in touch, wanting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d22331dfe8734a14a0b90fd37cfd16e1\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: You corrected it\u2014you corrected yourself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220dd2438d954d46d0a09d54c86fc5f693\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I did. Actually, I was so effective at answering the question, praising these backbone firefighters, that they decided they did want to come back to the table 10 minutes after I answered the question. That\u2019s very effective question answering, I have to say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1f62ba8720b4e77ad699f75ee6a86b0\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why do Government board members deserve an 80 percent pay rise while teachers get an effective pay cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c096ae0e5c7348daaf3a3f576910e97c\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s intention is that when we have serious large assets\u2014for example, I refer to Pharmac; that is something that spends $2 billion a year, nearly, on medicines for sick New Zealanders. Now, we want to ensure that the governance\u2014the board of that agency\u2014are paid at a rate that is at least almost comparable to what the same directors would get for private sector companies. There\u2019s a real contradiction for the Labour Party here: they want the State to do more, they want more Government agencies to do more stuff\u2014to invest in video games, to start sovereign wealth funds\u2014and yet they don\u2019t want to pay the people directing these proposed entities, or even the current ones, even nearly as much as directors get in the private sector. That had to be rectified. In relation to teachers, in the last three years, there has been a 14.5\u00A0percent increase in pay for teachers. That is a lot more than many of the New Zealanders who are paying the taxes, making arrangements today around the strikes to have someone look after their kids\u2014it\u2019s a lot more than they\u2019ve got lately. For that reason, the Government needs to balance the interests of Kiwis. There needs to be a sense of realism and a connection between those who are paying the taxes and those who are receiving money from the taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce2c3fffc3144371a10085b413cb7c10\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why do tobacco companies deserve $300 million while nurses are being offered an effective pay cut?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225726c8887e304444b63055e68178389f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: It is simply a mischaracterisation for the Labour Party to say that tobacco companies have been given $300 million. That simply has not happened. What the Government has done is say that if there is a nicotine-based product that is safer, has less impact on people\u2019s health, and has less impact on the health system, then it should be taxed in proportion to the amount of harm done. Now, the Opposition know this, because when they were in Government, they said there should be zero tax on vapes, because they too subscribed to the principle\u2014although the problem is that they don\u2019t know it, because they wouldn\u2019t know a principle if they tripped over one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237441c74f0a54396879a9d8f4ddbad37\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he willing to spend $44,000 on a helicopter trip for his Instagram\u2014the equivalent of nine months\u2019 base salary for the firefighters he is offering an effective pay cut to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287dbf2d6140f49a28f93d1e767d4fb42\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, this is the problem. You see, the relationship between New Zealand and Australia is one of the most, if not the most, important relationships between two countries anywhere in the world. That\u2019s why we have a meeting and actually invest in our relationship between the New Zealand Prime Minister and the Australian Prime Minister. But the Labour Party says it was for Instagram. You see, that\u2019s why they think people do politics\u2014for Instagram\u2014and that is the problem with the Labour Party today. That is why they\u2019re over there, and we adults are over here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022061e69b949bb4e53aedcda27b97d3628\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Should New Zealand workers, doctors, nurses, teachers, and firefighters accept a pay rise below inflation\u2014yes or no?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227037d4a631004989a23e003269869406\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: The Speaker will tell you that you cannot demand yes or no answers. The simple fact is that this Government is balancing the needs of New Zealanders as patients, as taxpayers, and as public health workers. We have to balance all of these, and the offers that have been put on the table are designed to do that\u2014to bring people together and connect the needs and the means of New Zealanders with the demands and the pressures from union organisers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022080f0bf7065e48bbb2405d936cced962\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: How can he complain about doctors, firefighters, nurses, and teachers unions not acting in good faith when he is threatening to limit their ability to strike because they won\u2019t settle for pay rises that don\u2019t even match inflation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022487282db84eb4d89873306d7375e100f\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yesterday, the Prime Minister was asked about this precise matter and said he was not aware that that\u2019s what the Government is doing. So, again, this is misinformation from the Opposition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227df924d19bfe4d02ae96881691e570bd\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he not willing to negotiate with teachers, firefighters, and nurses about fair pay but is willing to negotiate a rates rebate on his $10.5 million mansion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222fee4f49a15c4795a3ba0d173a43c15c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15c76ba4523405ab68724b83b1e2e09\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: A couple of things about that: first of all, the Prime Minister is absolutely willing to negotiate with the unions. In fact, the Government has been saying, through the Public Service Commission, that we are prepared to meet and work through the weekend to get a deal to avoid these strikes. The Government is here making the offers, trying to get the Public Service back to work in order for people to be served and we can make a balanced Budget on behalf of New Zealanders for all of our economic future. Now, on the comment about the Prime Minister\u2019s personal capacity and his personal residence, there\u2019s no responsibility for that except to say that there is a tone that if someone\u2019s worked hard all their life and done well, they should be dragged down and they should be embarrassed about their success and having a nice place on Waiheke. Well, actually, on this side of the House, we say that success is a good thing and tall poppy is bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269c2d4b39d914d8089bb38682efdcc74\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just make the point that bringing members\u2019 personal circumstances into the House has not been encouraged in the past, and there are any number of reasons why that would be the case, certainly not the least of which is that we come here to represent constituents and not necessarily attack each other. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cd173770bc1a4567ab4ea7a3ff237b79\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022 data-id=\u00223afe554673684dbf9676e5d1c49184a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223afe554673684dbf9676e5d1c49184a2\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u0022225b7bdc81874dc3b5656b450dbc428c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022225b7bdc81874dc3b5656b450dbc428c\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E On Tuesday, Stats NZ released the latest monthly trade figures, which cover imports and exports of goods. This data release shows how well New Zealand\u2019s exporters are performing. Seasonally adjusted export values were up 0.9 percent in September, following increases of 7 percent in August and 2.2 percent in July. Taking an annual view, in the year to September export values were up 13.5 percent over the previous year. This, of course, reflects the hard work of Kiwis employed across exporting sectors, which support one in four jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022049e92d1e44b4257ae7fcb63e25bd736\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What types of exports have been doing well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022874fb9314ae442da85544d4383b718f8\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealanders going to Aussie.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e24c9d17757d42c2b2a3bc9894f97a29\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Dairy, meat, fruit, and wood together make up over half of New Zealand\u2019s goods exports, and these figures are something to celebrate, even though Willow-Jean Prime seems to disagree. New Zealand has a well-deserved reputation for safe, high-quality food and fibre, and in the year to September, dairy exports were up 23 percent compared to the same period last year. Meat exports were up 18 percent, fruit up 33 percent, and wood up 8 percent. Stats NZ notes that a stand-out performer is kiwifruit, now a $4.5 billion a year industry, up from $2.6 billion just two years ago. That is a powerful example of innovation, productivity, and global demand delivering real value for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022705c45cd880a40568d0996cc38a76fcd\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Which export markets have seen an increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294a2c6984e8c430c8f3caaacc0cbd947\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, export values have risen across almost all of New Zealand\u2019s overseas markets. In the year to September, goods exports to China increased 15 percent, those to Australia increased 10 percent compared to same period a year ago, and, despite higher tariffs, New Zealand\u2019s goods exports to the United States continue to grow. In the year to September, they were up 8 percent compared to the previous year, with an increase in meat exports being the main driver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220306e5bfb6d94cc18a79185d1c068749\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for New Zealand\u2019s trade balance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdcd30b9e79b4158ac17ba5bc71c03be\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: For the past 30 years, New Zealand has typically recorded an annual goods trade deficit\u2014that is, we import more than we export. This deficit reached its highest levels in 2022 and 2023, peaking at a whopping $17 billion. Since then, it has narrowed considerably. This week\u2019s data shows an annual trade deficit of only $2 billion. That improvement is flowing through to the balance of payments. The current account deficit was a record 9 percent in the year to December 2022. It is now down to 3.7 percent in the year to June 2025, and further improvement is expected in the September quarter, driven by continuing strong growth in exports. It\u2019s always a good day to thank the farmers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f5a4fc29a4544f79f109f7e9d5c24ac\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Government doing to support the export industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022614130e0e33c4d0d9bf3a863489a19bf\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is doing a lot to help that sector, including with a very ambitious trade agenda. Since coming into Government, we have concluded a trade agreement with the Gulf Cooperation Council; concluded, signed, and entered into force a trade agreement with the United Arab Emirates; expedited early entry into force of the agreement with the European Union; and launched formal negotiations with India; and we are pursuing new opportunities across South-east Asia. New Zealand makes things the world wants to buy, and the Government will keep backing hard-working Kiwi exporters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022302a27271ad14b19812ab63fc09e681f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u00229686bd84051e44a3bf8da5df13e34779\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229686bd84051e44a3bf8da5df13e34779\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E[Does she stand by all of the Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022 data-id=\u00225a2979684648459cac57a2d2782d78a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a2979684648459cac57a2d2782d78a5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, within the bounds of my ministerial responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f60f94ffb564bf1952629145940f185\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: What? We can\u2019t hear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbf8ba989bf4d14b18dc978be934f25\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Look, there is always a lot of noise going on in the House. I will ask\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb01f2d62a2146d493350b549b47bced\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: If you shut up, you might listen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022554f17cb35dd42808bdcc9e839b58ad6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you talking while I am? I will ask the Minister to speak more clearly into the microphone but not repeat the answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223383bdcaaac142ffa422148a850b0230\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she condemning basic requests for decent pay and working conditions when we lose 50 percent of secondary school teachers in the first five years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226928c9cf35134e989126d2cb700d20a4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry, I missed the second part of that question. Could you say it again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002228519bd1f8924013b0f9906d2d23c2f3\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Why is she condemning basic requests for decent pay and working conditions when we lose 50 percent of high school teachers in the first five years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228081e57f88154a979de34d093f8bd8b4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: The simple answer is we\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cfdb5e18fc74edf8638c2badbac11d2\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement, \u201CWe have so many brilliant teachers, and when we back them we get results\u201D, and, if so, does she think backing teachers means pitting them and unions against wh\u0101nau and students?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a710a78dd2274489a44e46b5f811e09b\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, no. What I have been very clear on is the fact that we have been backing our amazing teachers for the last 18 months with the incredible amount of resource that we have been delivering straight to the front line: the three-quarters of a billion dollars of learning support that they so desperately have been asking for; the pathways to principalship, which we have recently announced; the fact that we are paying their teacher registration fees; the professional learning and development opportunities that we have been giving them over the last 18 months\u2014tens of millions of dollars\u2019 worth. We have been at the table; we have delivered good pay offers. But it\u2019s a shame that one of the unions hasn\u2019t even bothered to take it to their members. If they were at the bargaining table, like the Primary Principals\u2019 Collective Bargaining Union, there would be a good outcome, but they\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f236f5be5f14569a94e9ed499f3314a\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Is it backing teachers to have 55 percent\u2014well over the OECD average of 33 percent\u2014reporting that their stress is due to keeping up with curriculum or programme changes, especially when schools are already unable to properly staff existing subjects?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022289fdeb685ad45e18ee89033f8d5679f\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s exactly why this week and next week we\u2019ve been holding the Curriculum Roadshow, with hundreds of principals and leaders in venues across the country. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a45abdd9de848dda778d9b4ddd63de7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. You can\u2019t, on the one hand, complain that you can\u2019t hear what\u2019s being said, and then speak over the Minister answering. We\u2019ll hear the rest of the question in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222532d53469bc4d418d7ab25bc04c2c82\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we have been holding curriculum roadshows up and down the country this week, with the intent of unpacking the new curriculum, talking about all of the supports\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b88913c31634a2c9f810d1715a3e54b\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How\u2019s that going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a4d243613dc411198c3c5b031c9f30d\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and implementation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b280cf028e5346ecb6fcea128301dd15\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Really well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a7323a0759343a4925f5cd6754335be\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014that have been offered to schools and teachers across the country. It has been going really well. We have been completely packed out. In fact, in Auckland we are oversubscribed, because teachers and principals and leaders of curriculum can see the value in turning up to these roadshows. But what I would say to the unions is the fact that they told principals and teachers to boycott the very thing that was going to provide them the supports that they needed to implement the curriculum is a real shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225163adea53be44a4baa6d342c8f7b884\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022756d7988775e432696626c688d720c74\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, are people just perhaps looking for the opportunity to leave early, because they don\u2019t have to. The whip is off\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230dc4391299441ac9e44b807bf17f7c0\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222120c73dfc09400cbba13dc12ad5b52d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014right up until\u2014I\u2019m speaking\u20146 o\u2019clock, so there\u2019s no need for any theatrics that might see people asked to leave early.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b121597bccb458b94befef599b0e2ac\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. We were trying to abide by your request not to speak during the answer of that Minister, but the other side started making noise, so you can expect a little to and fro going on when that occurs, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cb056c6d05b4432a56d1ddc40bd9094\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Perhaps I\u2019m a victim of being able to hear better from this ear than I am from that one, or perhaps the volume from this side is louder than it is from over here. Either way, we\u2019ll just conduct ourselves in a much more seemly fashion from this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b240e2db4464224ac1b51cf7d73c528\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Does she think it is fair to teachers, who work on average 6.5 hours a week more than the OECD teachers\u2019 average and just want to do their best for students, to say they\u2019re pulling a stunt by going on strike?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9988d32c4de416d8b33950bf0846891\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already said, we are backing our teachers by making sure that they have the resources and the supports that they need to implement the new curriculum and to have more supports in the classroom when it comes to learning support. Teachers have been asking us and previous Governments for a really long time to help reduce the workload on them. That\u2019s exactly what we\u2019ve been doing with curriculum reforms, with maths books and textbooks being delivered into classrooms, with three-quarters of a billion dollars\u2019 worth of learning support delivered into classrooms. Not everything is delivered through collective bargaining; sometimes you get a Government who listens to teachers and principals on the front line and who delivers for them in other ways, which is exactly what we have done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221dfeba68851d43f2a58d405da42db348\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6d29df0de734bb5a924688545ad3789\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6d29df0de734bb5a924688545ad3789\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What announcements has he made about the Bikes in Schools programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002266bbd4b79c1242ee81535a23e9f06614\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266bbd4b79c1242ee81535a23e9f06614\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E I was thrilled to announce last week, at Wilford School in Petone, that the Government has made a new $3.5 million funding commitment to ensure the Bikes in Schools programme can go from strength to strength. Bikes in Schools was first funded in 2010. It\u2019s a great programme. It provides opportunities for primary and intermediate school kids to learn the basics of riding a bike safely, and it\u2019s fantastic to see this programme rolling out around the country once again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243d06944d0714d04bb6624d7ab8a4236\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What will this new money go towards?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022106dee20e29b4f1a8223221cdafdb93b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Funding of $3.5 million has been confirmed from the New Zealand Transport Agency, from the national road safety promotion programme. It supports the Bike On New Zealand Charitable Trust and, basically, it builds bike tracks in schools, provides bikes and helmets for students, and it enables kids to learn how to ride a bike safely during the school day, and, of course, outside of school hours. I\u2019m informed that, often, these bike tracks become real community hubs on the weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002210f9c4ee34684669818ffc6d38c110d3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022076049784e4c4191aa1fc7b51276e463\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Will you be teaching them to ride scooters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251077688e4414eabb85900fc0bf9ba7a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s that? Teach them how to ride scooters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00229d4949ba3b434d149e3ca9aba05aa612\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229d4949ba3b434d149e3ca9aba05aa612\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, no, no. Carry on with your answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260aba5711b17472eb7dbe2c6aec46138\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: This will be a good one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002248665ce76a374208a6bc8f745d296e35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248665ce76a374208a6bc8f745d296e35\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s it. That\u2019s the end of that. Is there another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb927c9dd25e477e95db460efecbe322\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022b286915c51d64030a21b12c127bb2986\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b286915c51d64030a21b12c127bb2986\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait until the House is a bit quiet. Can I just say to the Government side, as much as you might think the Minister needs assistance to answer a question, he doesn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7cdb28f679e4abfb5cd6e85492e7769\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What success has the Bikes in Schools programme had?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022019f496adc5845f1b19dbfba7b4c1dd0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: This is pretty awesome. Since 2010, more than 400 schools have got on board with Bikes in Schools. Thousands of kids have learnt how to practise safe biking in schools. I do want to thank Paul McArdle and the team at the Bike On New Zealand Charitable Trust. It\u2019s a very successful programme, well loved by communities across the country, and I\u2019m advised that $3.5\u00A0million over the next couple of years will enable between 40 and 60 more schools to roll out bike tracks and bikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022df81a9a008e04cf3bf7aa0c0bb8df42d\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Who will benefit from the Bikes in Schools programme?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226672ae5ce6714b65b391c3818ed7efaf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s tempting to make comments around policy wobbles this week, but what I will say is the most important people who will benefit from the Bikes in Schools programme are our young kids who will learn how to ride a bike safely. There\u2019s also a flow-on benefit to tradies in local communities who go out and do this very important work. Some of it\u2019s small work, but it\u2019s important work, none the less.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022068b64591e6a45b581afb6897c4887a2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022 data-id=\u00221b9a9777b44d4c56a3ccc0413ece3613\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b9a9777b44d4c56a3ccc0413ece3613\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Social Development and Employment: Does she stand by her 50,000 jobseeker reduction target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022 data-id=\u00226edd7cc9dfcb4e1ba2732ddc5a925551\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226edd7cc9dfcb4e1ba2732ddc5a925551\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I absolutely stand by that target. We know it\u2019s challenging, but our goal is to grow the economy and help more Kiwis into work, as we had seen welfare dependency balloon when we came into office. Our Government won\u2019t lower our targets just because they\u2019re challenging. Despite global headwinds, more New Zealanders are moving off benefits and into jobs\u2014over 20,000 last quarter alone. Through stronger case management, training, and practical support, we\u2019re backing Kiwis to become workready, independent, and part of our country\u2019s recovery and growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc84aec4aad4994867d19b56ad90327\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How many more job seekers are there now compared to when she came into office in November 2023?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b3c4e9b916449cf94db81afdee324c6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: We have seen an increase in the number of people on the jobseeker benefit, which is what we would expect. The good news is, actually, the unemployment rate has not gone up as high as the Treasury forecast when those guys left office. We\u2019ve seen it at 5.2 percent. It\u2019s higher than we would like, but it is the 30-year average. For every person who loses a job, this side of the House knows it\u2019s challenging. That\u2019s why we\u2019re not sitting on our laurels and we\u2019re doing everything we can to help them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd682c70e13a471492a905b99bc8519b\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the case that she is now closer to adding 50,000 job seekers than she is to removing 50,000 job seekers, and, if so, will she resign if the target is not met?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fe8d276c48d4677ab887a1390ff66e3\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in this House before, 50,000 is an ambitious target and not one that we will shy away from, because we know the enormous difference that work makes. When we came in, the figures were going the wrong way. It was forecast to peak in December. As I said, the unemployment rate actually isn\u2019t as high as was forecast when we came in, despite the challenges we\u2019ve faced. Every single one of those 50,000 makes an enormous difference\u2014to them, their wh\u0101nau, the community, and our country. That\u2019s why we\u2019re not shying away from the target.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aae0870b831e41a59b95abad857f9854\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 249 people who have lost their jobs recently in Tokoroa are now on jobseeker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226fefe9b330ff4bf9b0b23809ba15707d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m really proud of the work that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is doing on the ground in Tokoroa, and to be part of Project Phoenix. We are looking at supporting those workers immediately. Some have relocated; others have moved into other opportunities in town. I really feel for the families that haven\u2019t lost their jobs just yet but it is coming in the current weeks. I would welcome that member joining Project Phoenix to help the efforts that we\u2019re doing on the ground on behalf of our community to support those who are in that very challenging position of either having lost or, perhaps, losing their jobs in the coming weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a433e868e6b47a5af7f05fe38813305\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the South Waikato Mayor Gary Petley, who said the Government \u201Cdoesn\u2019t give a toss\u201D about regional New Zealand and, \u201CAll that Government [crap] they spin\u2014it\u2019s all a smokescreen.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3d2e5288d8249bfaad66a88d0bca7b2\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I would just say that I\u2019ve been working incredibly productively, not just with the mayor and the council but also the local union, who values the work that I\u2019m doing on the ground in the community. As I say, if he\u2019s really worried about those workers, I\u2019d invite him to join me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b41d32920c44660ac53fb360f305443\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to Gilbert Sydney, who was made redundant from Kinleith, found a job next door at the plywood plant, only to be made redundant from that job as well, and who said, and I quote, \u201CThere\u2019s literally no jobs around, not locally \u2026 we literally have to travel like an hour and a half even to find a job.\u201D\u2014what does the Minister say to Gilbert Sydney?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a043c4fce31423b8e17d6cf57dfb1f7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I have met with many of those affected in Tokoroa and I know how challenging it is. What we are doing is making sure that the welfare system is far more proactive than it\u2019s ever been before. We\u2019ve seen a 60 percent increase in the proactive engagements that MSD is having on the ground. Eighty-three thousand people left benefits into jobs in the last year, despite it being challenging, so we are not shying away from the challenge. Eighty-three thousand left a benefit for jobs\u201483,000. That\u2019s a good number.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220907dfbd099d4df7925c8facba22596b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u0022893c64d5cfbd410ba6c58a4eb7bfd39a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022893c64d5cfbd410ba6c58a4eb7bfd39a\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: What recent data has she seen on findings of harm in State care residences?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022 data-id=\u00225ca6bf6223b345b9ae88f0e2328f2eec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ca6bf6223b345b9ae88f0e2328f2eec\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen the Oranga Tamariki Safety of Children in Care report, which, for the first time ever in New Zealand, showed a decrease in harm within secure residential placements. There has been a 14 percent reduction in findings of harm since 2024. Any harm is unacceptable, but it must be acknowledged that the significant programme of work across the secure residences is seeing positive results. The introduction of standard operating practices, improved recruitment, training and programming, and a refreshed induction process\u2014among many other things\u2014is resulting in improved safety and wellbeing for those in secure residential care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082f2ac0d535412383f0c96983a9d2f3\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What other work has been undertaken to improve the safety and wellbeing in residences?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc5660ea7bcf44a99ef385e982c9ae78\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to the recruitment, training, and induction for staff, additional investment in Budget 2025 for professionalisation of the workforce will build on this work and promote enhanced safety. This will ensure we have a confident and capable workforce with the skills necessary to work effectively with young people in secure residences. We have also committed to significant infrastructure upgrades at residences to make sure that they are safe and secure for young people, with this work getting under way before the end of the year. We\u2019ve also invested in leadership training for our team leaders and resident managers, as it is essential that those at the top have the skills and capabilities to lead and to ensure the culture in residences is one of safety, security, and accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d1619099fbc4b91af5687d92e0e2cb4\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What does the data show about children and young people in return-home placements?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a130883ba5847dabdfaaf333ce99d12\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We must acknowledge what is working and where there is still room for improvement. The data shows a disproportionately higher number of children and young people living in return- or remain-home placements experienced harm. These are placements where a child is in the legal custody of the chief executive but has either returned to, or remained in, the care of their immediate family\u2014usually parents. Thirteen percent of children in return- or remain-home placements had a finding of harm. This is one of the reasons why I have always said that the ultimate consideration in decision making about the child must be safety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0742766ddc641908880bf1e51daac51\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why did you cut funding?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229522472f41a437c97d6dcc7e03ce106\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: While, ideally, every child would be in a safe and loving home with their parents, unfortunately, we know this is not always possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c63b70f52df54ac4b093db90d1b49e8d\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s the support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221cb1885e38d4448f82358989e4af5685\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: In these situations, the needs and the best interests of children must always come first, and I\u2019ll continue to advocate for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022662ba8f0b9614f05b99ca94de9a8a76a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The Hon Willow-Jean Prime. Have you got a question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a63666d087c40df98e41fc8375a90d4\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Me?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f18213656f14822b9940e914d23e2d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you\u2019ve been calling your question out most of the afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fb5d72382d7f465eb177340da045f05a\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: What else does the data show about findings of harm of children and young people in State care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbcba9da0c9a4748a754ad9f6cbdb105\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I acknowledge that the latest Safety of Children in Care report shows that in the 12 months to 31 March 2025, there was an increase of 23 children and young people who had a finding of harm compared to the previous year. It is important to note that the majority\u2014over 60\u00A0percent\u2014of this harm to children in care was not caused by the person that was responsible for their care. The harm was caused by someone else, be it by another child or a wider family member not responsible for their care, or by an adult not related or known to them. Any harm to a child, whether in care or not in care, is not OK, and, of course, this is something that I\u2019m really concerned about, and that\u2019s the safety of children, and it will remain my top priority as Minister. At the same time, it is important to acknowledge where progress has been made, such as in residences, and to recognise the hard work done by the front-line staff who are dealing with these issues every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c6ceefa88c44020bf989d301ed80ada\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Housing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u0022944114e23eb047458cd95f7c948b328e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022944114e23eb047458cd95f7c948b328e\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Housing: What recent announcements has he made on housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022 data-id=\u0022726fc51e10a04005bea5cb855de43800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022726fc51e10a04005bea5cb855de43800\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Associate Minister of Housing):\u003C/span\u003E Earlier this week, I announced Government support of $34 million for the Bisset Road development in Kaikohe, within contractual arrangements, led by Ng\u0101puhi. This development will help deliver a hundred affordable rental homes in Kaikohe. The investment shows iwi and Crown in mahi tahi\u2014or working together\u2014in Kaikohe, making it the largest community-led affordable housing project in the Far North, home of hardworking MP Grant McCallum. It\u2019s a great example of iwi-Crown partnership in action\u2014Ng\u0101puhi leading the project, investing in their own resources, and the Government backing them to deliver at scale.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d833e36616a94eeb9b2a8098a1fc8bce\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: How does this benefit the people of Kaikohe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228bd71151e15841dc8df37dc7915eb731\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Northland\u2014or Te Tai Tokerau\u2014has some of the highest levels of housing need in the country, due to a range of pressures. This investment directly addresses those challenges with a hundred new affordable rentals. All homes will be retained as affordable rentals for at least 25 years, with rents capped at 80 percent of market levels. Ng\u0101puhi will also provide wraparound Wh\u0101nau Ora and hauora support for tenants. In addition, over a hundred fulltime-equivalent roles are expected during construction, supporting local jobs and apprentices\u2014like Tai, who I met on Monday, up there on Guy Road in Kaikohe. We\u2019re creating real homes, local jobs, and opportunities that last alongside, with, and for M\u0101ori and all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d09b79b15a5499d9f22300b145cc879\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: When will the homes be ready?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022459459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2ec363e230e45dfaeb82b301e566b43\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Civil works are expected to start in November 2025, with the full development of a hundred homes expected to be completed by mid-2027.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f01a66cc496c47d299c0376b818ccf89\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: How does this fit in with the Government\u2019s commitment to partnering with iwi to deliver M\u0101ori housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223304c638e89a4dbab70ff4fc5e01c6e3\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Since December 2023, $426 million has been approved in three tranches for M\u0101ori-led delivery of around a thousand homes. The new homes are a range of papa k\u0101inga housing, owner-occupied housing, and affordable rentals. Projects are focused, for the most part, where housing pressure is the highest, such as Te Tai Tokerau\u2014or Northland; Rotorua; and Te Tair\u0101whiti, the East Coast, with suitable typologies and addressing shortages for kaum\u0101tua, single parents, and young couples. Through partnerships with iwi and M\u0101ori housing providers, like Waikato-Tainui, Ng\u0101ti R\u0113hia, and Ng\u0101ti Rangi\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227621aa65fb9249cd978df57a6441c990\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d144f3a5f3424c8cf748e79a6cbf11\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Peeni funded them. You funded no houses. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bab007e25fff4471a1460f7b5378fc2f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251d11aa3f9047e0b3c0bb0fb1b84ca4\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014hundreds of homes are under way, including some of one of the members over there who\u2019s calling out his father-in-law\u2019s brother. Partnering with iwi and M\u0101ori organisations will help deliver housing to support stronger wh\u0101nau and stronger communities, and to ensure that M\u0101ori solutions remain central to how we address housing need across Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002251ffc77b24d14240a87de81bc36c3f8a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9c3f15c21794fa68e21c0de1c8b1187\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9c3f15c21794fa68e21c0de1c8b1187\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Education: Does she stand by her statement, \u201Cit\u2019s so disappointing that they are playing politics, that they are choosing to go on strike\u201D, and will she meet with the predicted over 40,000 striking educators to address their concerns? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022 data-id=\u0022dc1bd7e07d42491c94d7438101916706\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dc1bd7e07d42491c94d7438101916706\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, I am very disappointed with the unions, following their choice to strike. They haven\u2019t prioritised bargaining in good faith, and teachers, parents, and students are paying the price. The member has asked a question in a very odd way\u2014of course I can\u2019t meet with 40,000 people. However, I am meeting with members to address their concerns during the Curriculum Roadshow, where we are unpacking the curriculum, explaining the supports, resources, and professional learning and development available, and explaining how they can implement the reforms in their classrooms. These have been the concerns that the unions have raised, and it\u2019s confounding that the unions have advised their members to boycott the very events that their members were calling for. But due to the professionalism of the sector, we\u2019ve had full events with engaged leaders who see the value of the support that we\u2019re providing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a6c91f337c4e1c8b69c7b0105435cc\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that she has \u201Chundreds and hundreds and hundreds of friends,\u201D and is that more than the 40,000 educators who are striking? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266d358e62f304473b859db2b3e37a0fc\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do stand by that statement, because the member is referring to a question that she asked yesterday about my Curriculum Roadshow. There are hundreds and hundreds of educators up and down the country who are coming to the Curriculum Roadshow and there are hundreds more watching online, and I would advise that member that she would have more friends if she answered her text messages. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226761e6d73cbf4bbfa85eb2b710a98336\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that Sir Brian Roche \u201Cis trying desperately to negotiate in good faith\u201D when he\u2019s in charge of a Public Service Commission that ran anti-strike attack ads? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220eebda4ecfdf48e59773279dc30b50e5\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, in relation to Sir Brian Roche, you can see from the emails that were released under the Official Information Act request in the last 48 hours that there is significant frustration on his part when he is trying to negotiate in good faith and get unions to the table. You can see where, of course, in one regard, he has had extraordinary success with the Primary Principals\u2019 Collective Bargaining union, which is a union that was prepared not to go on strike but to turn up to negotiations, to be open and transparent, to put forward what it wanted to bargain on, and to come to a settlement, and the ads that I have seen are not attack ads. They are simply information ads that the public should have the access to information on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246242c718e8f40869e97cf961bad8059\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why does she choose to undermine unions rather than actually listen to their concerns? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210454dc361244e2b8bd87efd9b566381\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not undermining the unions; I\u2019m just pointing out that they\u2019re not acting in good faith. But, in fact, there is one union that is acting in good faith and has settled, and that\u2019s the Primary Principals\u2019 Collective Bargaining union. I would make the point, again, that their membership grows by the day because principals can see that their own unions are not acting in good faith, and they want to settle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3015216c468488ba9bb1bd3446b76bb\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she claim that unions are bullying when it\u2019s educators who have voted to strike? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c334d2ee3d141f9ac538af4869d49fa\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Those comments that I made this morning about unions who were bullying were in relation to conversations that I have had with teachers and principals who have spoken out in the media with a different view, and who have then had enormous pressure put on them by the union. In fact, that was backed up by a text message from a principal that I received after I made\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231af187d5cd5493787fed3a3e41e40b1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, stop. Start the answer again, and people will listen quietly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226150015a220a4d9c874a784a9f58dd15\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I made those comments in relation to a question that I was asked this morning, when the presenter, Ryan Bridge, made the comment that perhaps principals and teachers weren\u2019t speaking out because they felt like they were bullied, and I agreed with him. That was from a conversation that I\u2019ve had with teachers and principals who have come out in the media with a different perspective on things and who have had enormous pressure put on them by the union. I would also say that that was backed up by a text message from a principal that I received after I made that comment, saying that my comments were so true\u2014and the word \u201Cso\u201D had about five \u201Co\u201Ds in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224653ab470afe42beb97a6de14d326409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d0d3ffe652d42d4b04bd6cffa349c50\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Will she apologise to the education sector for promising pay rises when she was in Opposition and failing to deliver them now that she\u2019s the Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be609cdfdd984ab1ada342317a88c1b4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the unions were prepared to be at the table\u2014like the Primary Principals\u2019 Collective Bargaining union\u2014and come to a settlement, then they would find that there are pay rises on the table. Unfortunately, one of the unions hasn\u2019t even bothered to put the offer to its members before striking. If the unions were at the table in good faith, they would find that we are there, ready to negotiate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222d00001196864307a271741573e68c94\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea6b09820d024b9e886a2f0045a89262\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea6b09820d024b9e886a2f0045a89262\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Health: Do nurses have safe staffing levels; if so, what evidence does he have to demonstrate that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7390094045041e6b2ba6d434ce21d77\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7390094045041e6b2ba6d434ce21d77\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E As I said yesterday, yes. Since coming into office, this Government has added around 2,000 more nurses to the public health system compared to 2023, alongside hundreds of additional doctors. That\u2019s backed by a record additional $16.68 billion of investment in health over three Budgets. I\u2019m advised that patient safety measures, such as in-hospital deaths, surgical site infections, and in-hospital falls, have been stable or improved over the last five years. Another indicator is hospital capacity. While bed numbers have increased by 175 over the past three years, the number of nurses employed has grown by more than 3,000 during that same time period, strengthening the level of care available to patients. Health New Zealand is committed to safe care. That\u2019s why we\u2019re growing the health workforce and holding the system accountable through clear health targets, so patients get the care they need when they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282db90f0ab764c319a43d55791f3842f\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that the Care Capacity Demand Management (CCDM) system data, the tool to measure actual patient need presenting in our hospitals, shows that nurses are facing unsafe working conditions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022587d682cd08e4ccf8cd49e60e1acde89\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the Chief Clinical Officer at Health New Zealand, Richard Sullivan, says, the CCDM system contains moment-in-time operational data and is not a direct proxy for unsafe or safe staffing. As Health New Zealand has said publicly, using this tool in isolation to claim that wards are understaffed and unsafe is misleading, and, actually, there is a range of factors that need to be taken into account, including those factors that I referred to in my primary answer, such as in-hospital deaths, surgical site infections, and in-hospital falls, which have been stable or improved over the last five years, and also, as I said, hospital capacity. While bed numbers have increased by 175 over the past three years, the number of nurses employed has grown by more than 3,000 during that same time period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8e41bb176e1408689e85582f5fee175\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Who is correct: the Minister of Health, who said that nurses have safe working conditions, or Jade Power, a registered nurse, who said, \u201CMany nurses work past their shifts unpaid because there is no one to hand over to. Breaks are missed, exhaustion is growing, and compassion fatigue is setting in. It\u2019s unsustainable.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7ed9a7cbe8643e8a7da0243b463d463\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I acknowledge the hard work of our nursing staff and our doctors and all of the healthcare professionals, who work incredibly hard in our healthcare system, but I would also point to the facts, and I think we have to take into account the facts as put to me by the Chief Clinical Officer of Health New Zealand, who looks at a range of factors when it comes to safety in our hospitals, including measures such as in-hospital deaths, surgical site infections, and in-hospital falls, which have been stable or improving in the last five years, and hospital capacity, which shows that 175 additional beds have been built. The number of nurses employed has grown by over 3,000 during that same time period. There is a range of factors we take into account to look at patient safety in our health system, and it\u2019s good to see the increased resourcing going to the front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc5020e89b3b4a67a203d56db8146823\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying that the countless nurses who have raised concerns around unsafe working conditions are wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295901b480a294084bb5c0693b9e1bdb5\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: What I am saying is that there is a range of factors that are taken into account, and the Chief Clinical Officer of Health New Zealand has been explaining it. I\u2019d also point to the comments by the CEO of Health New Zealand, Dale Bramley\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022322f9c2fa7434d9e8327ed5481608ba5\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is he a nurse?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002208f355c54a924840b843fc8311bab212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d512d5b31dd4cac8c58185c88c699f5\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014Dr Dale Bramley, who says, \u201COne of the biggest clinical safety risks in our hospitals right now, for patients, is waiting times.\u201D We inherited long waiting times, and unions which strike continue to extend those waiting times for patients.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226bee4d1af52a41a2a25252424259ace2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Mental Health\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u0022fd548ed5fdd84881985ca8e2fa6d4d88\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fd548ed5fdd84881985ca8e2fa6d4d88\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Mental Health: What recent announcements has he made about crisis recovery caf\u00E9s?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022 data-id=\u00220f4f54e52b8d4c47991eaa7ea776c00d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f4f54e52b8d4c47991eaa7ea776c00d\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Minister for Mental Health):\u003C/span\u003E Our mental health plan is focused on delivering results, faster access to support, more front-line workers, and a better crisis response. Recently, I opened Whanganui\u2019s new crisis recovery cafe, the first of six cafes being rolled out by the Government across the country. The new crisis recovery cafe is being delivered by Balance Aotearoa, with Government backing to bring the idea to life. Whether it\u2019s your child, a friend, or a family member reaching out for support, we\u2019re committed to ensuring support is there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d5dee4cd30b4b10a2b5bfc0c1183f43\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What is a crisis recovery cafe?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226eca01d7d344547a609639ebde74212\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: One of my top priorities is to improve access to mental health support so we can ensure all Kiwis have the help they need when and where it\u2019s needed. Crisis cafes are a peerdelivered service and provide a safe, relaxed, non-clinical setting for people who are in distress and need to talk someone face to face. Sitting in the emergency department or in clinical settings at a time of mental distress can be a very challenging place for people. Crisis recovery cafes provide an alternative, welcoming place to go when people need support. To deliver a better crisis response, we want to ensure there is someone to call, someone to respond, and somewhere to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd4a285f270746288e1fb01fc9a2fd9c\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What other areas are receiving Government support for crisis recovery cafes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280cab5b2140f417d9175b70addc9da60\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: Our mental health plan is working, with over 80 percent of people seen within three weeks for specialist services and the front-line mental health workforce growing around 10 percent since coming into office. Earlier this year, I announced funding for the Wellington City Mission\u2019s crisis cafe as part of the Government\u2019s mental health community innovation fund. The funding boost allowed the mission to scale up to 24 hours. Tomorrow, I\u2019ll visit Whakatane\u2019s resilience cafe, who with their funding boost will extend their opening hours, employ more peer support workers, and double their capacity. No matter where you live, this Government is committed to ensuring that timely support is there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff995c6fef42459091b8bcc5af2fee07\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he seen on the Government\u2019s roll-out of crisis recovery cafes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220dadb94c23504a7b8e4dca31a4ff46fd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44e0abb561242988d7036f04392cb57\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is not just focused on ensuring the right support is in place to treat mental health issues, but we focus strongly on preventing Kiwis from getting to that point. Tony said, \u201CAwesome for Whanganui! Top work by the Government. We have to be open to new ideas to support those with mental illness, and this seems like it has huge potential.\u201D Bobby said, \u201CIt\u2019s an amazing experience there for everyone who uses it. Absolutely no bad stigma or to be made to feel bad. I really think the entire concept is somewhat magical.\u201D Behind every one of these new services are hundreds of Kiwis now getting the support they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d47ac30de09f44f98758125bca786d4a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Economic Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc4e53024a184cc5a7d94f87866afd6a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc4e53024a184cc5a7d94f87866afd6a\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Economic Growth: Does she agree with Nicola Willis that a National-led Government \u201Cwill rebuild the economy to reduce the cost of living and help Kiwis get ahead\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u0022544035fa191f41fe9601791bae6ca94e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022544035fa191f41fe9601791bae6ca94e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for Economic Growth):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Members of the House will be interested to know that I made that statement in 2023, in a press release titled \u201CLabour in economic \u2018la la land\u2019, planning more taxes\u201D. The more things change, the more they stay the same. Of course, at that time, inflation was running at 5.6 percent. It\u2019s now been back in band for more than five quarters. Food price inflation was running at 8.8 percent; it is now down to 4.6 percent. The official cash rate had been rapidly rising, reaching a peak of 5.5 percent; it is now down to 2.5 percent. Of course, also since then, the Government has delivered tax relief to more than 1.9 million households\u2014tax relief opposed by Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a41ebd74ddf4738a64314dc726937d9\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How does a pay offer for teachers, firefighters, and nurses that does not keep up with the cost of living help Kiwis to get ahead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ee6500e21e84018905da2fcb9710ba1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the assertion in that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210382b0b8fbf4b29af1acf579bad6ab2\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How can the estimated 100,000 Kiwis who have walked off the job today get ahead when they are overworked and undervalued by her Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f569b66b6cb4ed1be31e1b03ee52fcc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, our Government values greatly the work by nurses, teachers, firefighters, and others on the public payroll, and what we would say to them is that they would be able to get a pay rise much more rapidly if their union went back to the bargaining table instead of playing politics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b92d0726af8475e8357b2cad39ffed7\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why is her Government handing Crown board directors pay rises of up to 80\u00A0percent while teachers and nurses are struggling to cope with the cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f608a18e1644349a26953b598ceadd8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I find this an interesting question, because I understand that the member\u2019s party is quite enamoured by Temasek, which, of course, is an interesting model for running Crown assets. Temasek is distinguished by a couple of things, members: one of them is that it often sells assets and purchases others, and another factor is that it pays its directors well because it wants the companies to be run well. Our Government came in to a number of basket cases in terms of Crown entity management, including K\u0101inga Ora and ACC, and we are determined to run those services and assets better on behalf of taxpayers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ceba9664019494bb16b9824a8d58f00\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Are teachers, doctors, prison staff, and firefighters wrong to ask for safe working conditions and pay that keeps up with the cost of living?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea076a9d047543ddaa900aae90285523\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226f8920e9f664e1ea17a253ad0efcf5f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is she surprised that 200 New Zealanders leave our shores each day\u2014each day\u2014when her Government refuses to pay hard-working front-line workers what they\u2019re worth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a45d22e9c6744c21a8a352873bc43665\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would just like to share with that member a statistic that I certainly find interesting, and it is this: in the 21 months of data since this Government came into office, annual net departures of New Zealand citizens increased by 5,800. This contrasts with the 21\u00A0months prior to that, under the previous Government\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022333cbe863aa64ae7816c10ddcdfe265e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222bfd41b64c4a44b182be5a0789cc8a84\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: Call the fire service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230b62b8b6f5b40d7a71c3252b123cb54\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014through which annual\u2014listen up, Peeni Henare, because annual net departures of New Zealand citizens increased by 38,000\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022204d34d2cd00404d976f2b0dd3849add\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry\u2014sorry\u2014we\u2019re going to start again. We\u2019re not having that barracking across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263c1437bc179490bb8e45426cce41fdc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Let me summarise my answer, which is this: under the last 21 months of the Government of which that member was in Cabinet, annual net departures of New Zealand citizens increased by 38,000. In the 21 months since this Government has been in office, that number was 5,800, so our record stacks up better than yours on that and many, many other things, including the fact we include numbers in our policies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u002229724c6a8eb54a66b689c153c1d04a73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229724c6a8eb54a66b689c153c1d04a73\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes oral questions. Members should be leaving the House quietly while we have the committee change over.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f1c64e44504f40c4aa052b79483967eb\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f2444c025b7a40d8ad7ca8123f2a8cdc\u0022\u003EHouse in Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022341faab6c863427da86005685419ecdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022341faab6c863427da86005685419ecdc\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Parliament Bill and the Land Transport Management (Time of Use Charging) Amendment Bill. We will start with the Parliament Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258b1484fec8c4e89bd8ad1154541729e\u0022\u003EParliament Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cecafd6f4c07494c9add1b2a45eff8ec\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220425c4c91ba04f00b785c29520bd22ca\u0022\u003EPart 1  Preliminary provisions and Schedule 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002250a797efd6b14a2eb7ebc17e8559128b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250a797efd6b14a2eb7ebc17e8559128b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We come first to Part 1. Part 1 is the debate on clauses 3 to 8, \u201CPreliminary provisions\u201D, and Schedule 1. The question is that Part 1 stand part. The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291d31f81f8a84632b7574dd7529061a6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker? Madam Chair, rather.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022abe361afdce5435d87cd57b78cb9c697\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, well, I\u2019m going to make an exception this time because there were a few people wandering around and I did not see the member who ably chaired the Parliament Bill Committee, so I\u2019ll take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u002206a838cfbe8d41ebb7e7fe28c782fb86\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206a838cfbe8d41ebb7e7fe28c782fb86\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair; I\u2019m out of practice. I just wanted to make a brief call on Part 1 of the bill, basically to say that it\u2019s important and correct and right that these four pieces of legislation be brought together into one new piece of legislation. The only other point that I would make\u2014and it will become relevant later on in the debate\u2014is that it does not include the Official Information Act. Why I say that is because several submitters made submissions on the Official Information Act to bring Parliament\u2019s information under that as well. Those were deemed, by the committee, to be out of scope of this bill. That\u2019s my brief introduction, Madam Chair. Thank you for the opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u00221b9f5a9a5fe8448583300b6db23fa861\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b9f5a9a5fe8448583300b6db23fa861\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. As we begin the committee stage of this bill, I do look at Part 1 and the purpose, clause 3. As it says currently, \u201CThe purpose of this Act is to consolidate and modernise the law about operating and administering Parliament.\u201D The reason I\u2019d be interested in the Minister making a contribution is just for the public to understand what this is about, because I very much think this bill is about this place and about the people in this place and how it\u2019s funded, and the goings-on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t want to labour the committee stage, but we do want to be seen to actually prosecute and to ask some questions to give confidence to the public so that they understand what this bill is about\u2014and it\u2019s not just for us as MPs finding a way, I guess, to feather our nest or to make it easy for us, but it\u2019s to help make the system better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002288576b4d33d74af795fffa596d3d4039\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288576b4d33d74af795fffa596d3d4039\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This is an important bill. I thank members of the Opposition, and others, for their constructive engagement on this. We had a special select committee on this, which, I think, as duly appropriate, it was well chaired by former Speaker the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u2014and thank you for his contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThis is an important piece of legislation and probably one that\u2019s a little bit overdue and one that past Governments and past parliaments have looked at. It brings together the Clerk of the House of Representatives Act 1988, the Parliamentary Service Act 2000, the Members of Parliament (Remuneration and Services) Act 2013, and the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of things going on there. One is that if you want to understand how Parliament operates and how it\u2019s funded and what its powers are and all of the legislation to do with Parliament, there isn\u2019t one place to find it; you\u2019ve got to go and look at those four Acts. This, if it becomes law and the House approves it, will become the Parliament Act 2025 and it will be the one place. Now, people might say, \u201CWell, bringing together legislation, that doesn\u2019t really seem like much of a deal.\u201D, but, actually, it\u2019s important to the rule of law and cogency of the statute book that we don\u2019t have random pieces of legislation that do different things but all actually relate to the same topic\u2014or, in this case, relate to the same institutions: the very important home of our democracy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThe second thing is that some of these statutes are quite out of date. The last time we went through a serious round of kind of parliamentary reform was actually in Sir Geoffrey Palmer\u2019s day, that great reform period of 1987 through to 1990\u2014a bit controversial, in some respects, for some, but, from a parliamentary point of view, quite a lot was done by Sir Geoffrey back then, as Attorney-General and Minister of Justice and Leader of the House, to create, essentially, the modern-day foundations of the Parliament: the select committee system, for example. The Clerk of the House of Representatives got its own Act back in 1988 during that period. The Parliamentary Services Act 2000 is now 25 years old, as well, so it is about modernising this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EIn relation to the Parliamentary Privilege Act, Parliament went through an exercise soon after I became an MP\u2014or it might have been contemporaneously when I became the MP\u2014about responding to the judgment of Attorney-General v Leigh, from memory. There was another case as well in which it became, without boring the committee, really clear that Parliament had to reassert the traditional privileges that exist for all members of this House around freedom of speech and put into statute some common law rights that perhaps, at least arguably, contestably at law, didn\u2019t exist or we needed to make clear that they did exist. The Parliamentary Privilege Act was a response to court judgments, and now it\u2019s going to be a part of the Parliament Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThere are some important changes that the Parliament Bill, this bill, makes in relation to parliamentary security, which, no doubt, we\u2019ll get to. It also, importantly, changes the funding model, and, in particular, it gives Parliament more independence from the executive in relation to the funding of Parliament. In our Westminster system, with our fused executive and legislature, by definition, the Government governs and controls the Budget, but, actually, Parliament is its own separate institution. There\u2019s always been a natural tension there\u2014which, actually, to be honest, you can\u2019t get rid of entirely\u2014between the operation of the funding of Parliament, the legislature, its own institution, and the executive, which, by definition, is only the executive because it has control of the Parliament; if that wasn\u2019t the case, they wouldn\u2019t be the executive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is put in place a more independent process in which the House is in charge of its own budgets. There is some involvement of the executive, but it\u2019s a step forward from the status quo, where I think most people would say it\u2019s more biased towards the Government. That hasn\u2019t really been a problem, to be honest\u2014I hope both sides of the House would agree on that. It hasn\u2019t really been a problem in practice, but there\u2019s always the potential. Law is sometimes not about necessarily solving the problems of today; it\u2019s about futureproofing to make sure we don\u2019t endure problems in the future. That\u2019s the purpose of the Parliament Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002200c6fa8a6ee447b29b685e2700d70905\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200c6fa8a6ee447b29b685e2700d70905\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 1 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 1 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a83602d261c94f4eb2dc312ad9bdb68a\u0022\u003EPart 2  Parliamentary privilege \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1bc8aa3cfce4bdcb5278df0fe864727\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1bc8aa3cfce4bdcb5278df0fe864727\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 2, which is the debate on clauses 9 to 39, \u201CParliamentary privilege\u201D. The question is that Part 2 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef77b104ea514e0ba0a5fdc4d1df056d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef77b104ea514e0ba0a5fdc4d1df056d\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. As the Minister has pointed out, the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014\u2014some submitters thought that it should stand alone. The committee decided that it could be included in there and that it stood on its own mana, basically, in my words. I just wanted to make that comment at the committee of the whole House. I think that it is important that all four of those pieces of legislation are brought together into one document, including parliamentary privilege. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f97dc66cbd364656b6d59a7a1d007b34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f97dc66cbd364656b6d59a7a1d007b34\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f38e454e9a4bc99dcb5ddcd681b125\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00220e2ad77f73824ad8a8e41f137be39776\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e2ad77f73824ad8a8e41f137be39776\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I had started voting. Members are going to have to be quick. There are lots of parts to this bill, and I\u2019m sorry, I had started voting. The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002276ab8885ffbc4ea2984d989dd693911c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002276ab8885ffbc4ea2984d989dd693911c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins\u2019 amendment to Part 2 set out on Amendment Paper 344 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 2 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db83459f43a4444aa65a261d0dae9160\u0022\u003EPart 3  Speaker, Deputy Speaker, and parliamentary precincts\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9788b469e124ae6b54f707fe3920832\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9788b469e124ae6b54f707fe3920832\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 3\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022afdc8c930e504de8ba24bcf0233023ec\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237e3684301a84413b12d4a9140b0b644\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just going to outline that this is the debate\u2014I know that the Minister knows, but this is the debate on clauses 40 to 56, \u201CSpeaker, Deputy Speaker, and parliamentary precincts\u201D, and Schedule 2. The question is that Part 3 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002251d1ec48133f4554b8cb59d5bca3af1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251d1ec48133f4554b8cb59d5bca3af1f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E If the committee will indulge me, or the Chair will indulge me, I do just want to make a brief comment in relation to Part 2, which we\u2019ve just covered, which I know we\u2019ve voted on, but there seems to be a spirit of bonhomie in the Chamber, so I hope the committee won\u2019t mind. The committee has just voted on an amendment from the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins that I do just want to briefly touch on. I mistakenly looked at the amendment and thought it was in relation to Part 7, so I thought we might have a bit of time, but it\u2019s actually in relation to Part\u00A02. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThe committee has just voted to clarify that the House of Representatives cannot imprison for contempt, and that is an important change. Well, it could be seen as important. It is not clear, from a reading of Parliamentary Practice in New Zealand by David McGee and case law and recent Privileges Committee reports, that Parliament could not, or the House could not, imprison someone for contempt of Parliament. It\u2019s worth noting that this power has never been exercised in New Zealand by the House of Representatives, so the committee has just voted to make it clear that imprisonment is not a punishment for contempt. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003ENow, what is a contempt? Well, a contempt is a serious breach of the Standing Orders, as judged by the Privileges Committee. It\u2019s laid out in the Standing Orders, and, regrettably, this Parliament, and indeed the Parliament before, has had some incidents where members have behaved badly\u2014I think it\u2019s fair to say that\u2014and people have been referred to the Privileges Committee and people have been found guilty of contempt. There are a variety of punishments that can be laid down for that. What has been discussed is whether or not the extremity of the punishment could extend to imprisonment, and we\u2019ve now decided that that is not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m advised that in section 8 of the Parliamentary Privilege Act 2014, which will now become part of the Parliament Bill, the House has the powers exercisable by the UK House of Commons as at 1 January 1865. Of course, back then\u2014someone will have no doubt gone away and researched this\u2014in 1865 in the UK House of Commons, they did have the power to imprison people by committing them into the custody of the Serjeant-at-Arms. It is at least arguable that the New Zealand House of Representatives had that power up until, well, 2 minutes ago, or 2\u00BD minutes ago. I suppose it doesn\u2019t take effect yet, until we\u2019ve received the Royal assent\u2014so, I don\u2019t know, next week or something.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003ENow that\u2019s been clarified, and I do want to thank the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins for moving that amendment, which the Government has been pleased to support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002227e7bd754bd94e7ab20bc1f2d311fee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002227e7bd754bd94e7ab20bc1f2d311fee3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, that\u2019s a very important clarification. Is this in response or is this Part 3?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022905b066a9b774f16beded18d127e07f6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u003C/span\u003E: No, sorry, I\u2019m on Part 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227473cbdbdb4c4696b8e422779b4008cd\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all right. OK. That was very important, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u002205dc2e42bfe04259b2df44ec90a0112b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002205dc2e42bfe04259b2df44ec90a0112b\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E For the record, I thought it was Part 7 as well. I just want to recognise that in Part 3, the Speaker of the House will have the ability to delegate certain functions to the Deputy Speaker, which I think is wholly appropriate, in the same way that a Minister who also has responsibilities under the Public Finance Act, say, might delegate something to an Associate Minister or an under-secretary. I just wanted to just briefly recognise that in Part 3, that is one of the things that has changed in there. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u002247c009f3f99c4a188b6c8e8aec20a70a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247c009f3f99c4a188b6c8e8aec20a70a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019d just like to draw the committee\u2019s attention to what I think is a really good change, but I ask for a couple of clarifications: that is, in clause 61, where we\u2019ve got the \u201Cmeaning of adult dependant\u201D, and we\u2019re talking about an adult dependant in relation to \u201Ca person \u2026 means a person who has a disability that means they require ongoing daily care\u201D, and this is going to entitle them to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db4243a73b824e638fd728016b06fbed\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I think clause 61 is in a different part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b860b32bdbff43839f8eff43c93e0c1d\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry. My apologies, Madam Chair; I\u2019ve jumped ahead. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdb482194863423bb07fc205a8ab48a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdb482194863423bb07fc205a8ab48a9\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. Clause 52 is around the \u201CHouse of Representatives may add \u2026 to parliamentary precincts\u201D. Obviously, we have the current precinct where it\u2019s at\u2014well, the three buildings, and buildings that are currently being built. I just want to seek clarification that this, obviously, is around\u2014I mean, the initial purchase of the land back in 1867, or whenever it was, can be dubious, in many ways. I\u2019m just wanting to seek clarification from the Minister that whenever we talk about adding land to the parliamentary precinct, this, obviously, will be in a way that fits in with current laws and isn\u2019t about acquiring land but is around doing right by modern laws. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EAlso, the ability for members or the Business Committee to look at what the parliamentary precinct is\u2014does that fit into the space in terms of whether Parliament is able to not just purchase more land but actually add to the precinct? For example, Defence House, behind us, is becoming part of the precinct. I just want to clarify that that, obviously, all sits quite clearly and we\u2019re making sure that however land is acquired in the future, it is done in a way that honours current laws and honours our commitment to the Treaty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022720c329d24e840bbb6d5727f9083a5b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022720c329d24e840bbb6d5727f9083a5b8\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Just in relation to a couple of comments made, they\u2019re both really important points. Mr Rurawhe talks about the Deputy Speaker; that is a really important point in Part 3 of this bill. The Parliamentary Service Act 2000 makes it clear that the Deputy Speaker can have the functions and powers of the Speaker, but it\u2019s unclear in the Clerk of the House of Representatives Act 1988. This goes back to the starting point, which is that the Act was written in 1988 and needs updating. This makes it crystal clear that the Deputy Speaker can exercise the functions of the Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EIn relation to Glen Bennett\u2019s point around clause 52, this is a bit of a carry-over provision, but it makes it clear that the \u201Cparliamentary precincts\u201D in clause 53 are Parliament buildings, including the very important executive wing, of course, and Part 1 of Schedule 2 and Part 2 of Schedule 2 have the indicative map of the land. The key point is that there\u2019s flexibility for Parliament in the future if it chooses to grow and expand. In fact, there\u2019s a process under way around that at the moment, but it just gives some flexibility so that, by resolution, the House can expand the grounds without having to go through a legislative change, because being on the parliamentary grounds has a particular meaning for Parliament, not the least of which is leave. Before any honourable member asks, yes, there would be the ability to extend that to places of ill repute near Parliament, but there is no current proposal on the table to do that and, I hasten to add, for everyone listening, the Government is not intending to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u002232c966147a144f0fb1997fc53607ac07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232c966147a144f0fb1997fc53607ac07\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I believe I\u2019m on the right part now, Madam Chair. I just want to draw the Minister\u2019s attention to clause 55. It talks about the Speaker controlling and administering the parliamentary precincts. It talks specifically about the powers that are vested in the Speaker, and then it kind of self-refers, in subclause (2), to subclause (1), but it\u2019s pretty unclear about what the precincts mean.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thinking of a specific example here. For example, is it the Minister\u2019s view that the Speaker has authority and powers under this legislation to direct and control members of various workforces, such as security guards, the parliamentary colleagues or staff working with MPs, and the press gallery? I\u2019m thinking about examples where there could be events happening on the forecourt, and members of Parliament might want their EAs and others present. Can the Speaker, under the legislation as it\u2019s currently worded, make an order to remove the press gallery, for example, or to require staff to go back inside?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise this is that in some of those situations, members of Parliament could feel quite insecure, given the volatility at the moment around public protest and polarised views, and parliamentary members may not want to venture on to the forecourt if they don\u2019t feel they have adequate support from staff. Equally, there is a duty for the fourth estate, the media, in this place to make sure that everything here happens transparently, and it is of great public interest when there are large crowds on the forecourt. I\u2019m not challenging anything that has happened over recent times; it may well be that that is the Minister\u2019s understanding, but I question whether the legislation as it\u2019s currently worded actually does make that explicit, and whether, if that is his view and if it was the will of the committee, it should be added. If it was not the will of the committee or if there were not public submissions on these very important points, my view would be that the legislation should be read at face value, and that the clarification should be made via an amendment or we should have it on the record what actually the committee came to conclude here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EThese are not entirely hypothetical situations, which is why I am raising them very respectfully, but I do think that the public interest, the media interest, and also the personal views of MPs when it comes to staff and resourcing and support need to be considered when we\u2019re looking at the boundaries that relate to clause 55, which really does confer an awful lot of power on the Speaker, or vest in the Speaker, as is right to have that power, but I think the boundaries need to be extremely clear so that in those situations, everybody is comfortable and clear about what the rules are, and when they could decline or not follow a direction and when they are required to under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u00222f4fda409d94434d9abbda06f9ad2cf7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222f4fda409d94434d9abbda06f9ad2cf7\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Hopefully I can be helpful on that particular question. It\u2019s actually a question I asked at select committee. What we need to remember is that under the new set of rules and under this new legislation, which we\u2019ll talk about in Part 7, there\u2019s a clear monitoring role and reporting role, and the direct reporting is with the CEO of Parliamentary Service. The Speaker of the House has overall authority but doesn\u2019t actually carry it out himself or herself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important that we recognise that parliamentary security will be operating in a very professional way under clear rules, and, in fact, the regime for reporting such incidents, and carrying that out, is at arm\u2019s length from the Speaker of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3964bbfe9e24f0eaedb583cdf211e85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3964bbfe9e24f0eaedb583cdf211e85\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m grateful to my friend Adrian Rurawhe for outlining that. Of course, with his experience as a former Speaker, I think he would have been able to go through these issues at select committee, which I\u2019m sure they did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThe member does raise a good point. The Speaker has broad discretion in administration and control of the precincts. That\u2019s what clause 55 means. The easiest way to think about it is that the Speaker is, essentially, the Minister of Parliament. They\u2019re in charge of Parliament. They\u2019re like Parliament\u2019s Minister. It\u2019s not a perfect analogy. It\u2019s an inapt analogy, but it\u2019s close enough to the truth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EBut, of course, there are a couple of checks on the Speaker just having unlimited power. One is that he\u2019s subject to the control of the House. I\u2019ve been around long enough to see no-confidence motions, and sometimes they get moved and most times they don\u2019t, but they sit on the Order Paper. Members who have been around for a while will remember some of the back and forwards about those. Ultimately, the House is in control of who the Speaker is, so that is actually a really important check.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThen the other thing I would say is that the Speaker has to act reasonably. Why do I say that? Well, there\u2019s quite a long line of case law around this, most notably the Beggs case which has to do with protest and assembly on the forecourt. And, of course, the Speaker, as indeed the whole of Parliament, is subject to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act 1990 by dint of section 3. Is it section 3? Yes, it is. My friend James Meager is nodding at me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003ESection 3 of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act makes the legislature, the executive, and the judicial branches of Government subject to the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, which means that powers in relation to Parliament have to be exercised in accordance with the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act, and so that is an important check as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EI understand where the member\u2019s coming from, but, of course, clause 7 is the substantive change that we\u2019re making around the parliamentary security officers, which is where I think the rubber hits the road on this stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u00228a30f5289b0a41c9ae55467699f6459e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a30f5289b0a41c9ae55467699f6459e\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Just in view of the incredibly helpful comments from my colleague the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe, and also what the Minister has indicated\u2014and I understand and appreciate the validity and importance of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act. What I heard from my colleague was something around due process and the line of communication and direction being really crystal clear and not muddied. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EI appreciate these things happen very quickly when they do. I wonder if the Minister can indicate whether he is open-minded about looking at the devil in the detail about how that should happen, so that the reasonableness test\u2014which, we know, is incredibly broad\u2014is not the litmus test, but there is something a little bit more substantial, so that those delegations happen appropriately and everybody is clear about what the rules are and what they do and don\u2019t need to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002245054e62890b484aa9596d05de6022fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002245054e62890b484aa9596d05de6022fa\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E Well, I\u2019m happy to have a look at it. The ship has sailed, somewhat, to be honest, because the committee has reported the bill back unanimously, and, as I understand it, there\u2019s no Amendment Paper from the member in relation to that\u2014but I\u2019m happy to look at it in the future. Until we\u2019ve got evidence that there\u2019s actually a problem, having gone through quite a long process\u2014the gestation of this bill has been many years. It actually spans back to the previous Government. Happy to have a look at it in the future, but I\u2019m not convinced at the moment that there\u2019s actually a problem worth solving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fac5ae7164d34aa19861ff549afa966c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fac5ae7164d34aa19861ff549afa966c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendment to Part 3 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendment agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 3 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222c472b2a3b164884afd68c595407d26b\u0022\u003EPart 4  Salaries, allowances, expenses, and services for members and others\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca76946172f44c0298c646ae080acc32\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca76946172f44c0298c646ae080acc32\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 4. Part 4 is the debate on clauses 57 to 100, \u201CSalaries, allowances, expenses, and services for members and others\u201D, and Schedule 3. The question is that Part 4 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u0022835d8448029543f89dfc256436fcba2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022835d8448029543f89dfc256436fcba2f\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m just excited to get back to the point that I was asking about previously\u2014it\u2019s not a major one. It is a really good change to the legislation, where it shows some leadership from this place around adult dependency, and a recognition that some members of Parliament have adult dependants and that there should be different provisions made that can ensure that families spend time together. I think this is a good signal, actually, to the wider community about having some flexibility, because, previously, only the dependent children\u2014I think 18 years or under; it might even be under 18 years, I can\u2019t remember\u2014could qualify for travel. That is not to be a perk of the job; it\u2019s really about making sure that children and their parents that work in this place actually remember who each other are, given the long hours. But that did not apply and did not take into account any element of dependency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got this changed provision in clause 61, and there is a test in it, and it talks about a disability that means they require ongoing daily care, and then there are a number of things that need to be fulfilled under paragraph (a)\u2014with the member presumably being the one who provides the care\u2014and paragraph (b) about financial dependence and the fact they\u2019re not living with another person in a de facto relationship. That all seems really good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EWhen I turn over to clause 63 and I see the meaning of a \u201Cdependent child\u201D, it\u2019s pretty similar. But we have in there, in paragraph (c), \u201Cto whom A provides ongoing care;\u201D, and then a number of the other similar tests. I guess it could be argued, because we\u2019ve got \u201Cenrolled at a registered school within the meaning of section 10(1) of the Education and Training Act\u201D, really it\u2019s about the meaning of ongoing care. It could be that there are some people who are in that education who may be living with others but are still relying financially on a parent, they\u2019re not in a de facto relationship, they\u2019re pretty dependent, they can\u2019t get a part-time job, but they may not necessarily be living in the same home\u2014which is not in there; it\u2019s just got provisions about family, ongoing care, and not being in a de facto relationship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EEarlier on, it doesn\u2019t really define what ongoing care is; it defines the meaning of a \u201Cdependent child\u201D. But I wonder if the Leader of the House could clarify for the record how he sees the boundaries of this so that we\u2014I don\u2019t think it\u2019s intended to capture people who are very dependent but not living in the same household as the MP. I think it would be good to know that, because otherwise there could be\u2014with some of the clever legal, and other, minds in this place\u2014some pushing up against the boundaries of the rules, and we would need to be really clear about who can qualify.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1f6fe7d77d44a46aac3c2b941b935eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1f6fe7d77d44a46aac3c2b941b935eb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I appreciate the point that the member is making. Ultimately, the judge of this is the Speaker, and so I appreciate the member\u2019s invitation, but I am not going to seek to define that here, because I would get it wrong and I would not want to mislead people. There will be a range of factual circumstances around this. As, I think, every member knows, people\u2019s living circumstances can be simple and sometimes they are complex, and I\u2019m not judging anyone\u2014I would never seek to do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThe intent of this, as the member rightly outlines, is to be slightly more progressive around the support that can be provided and, again, to just update it and make sure that we\u2019re keeping pace with the variety of circumstances that some people find themselves in. There is no test, and I suspect that that\u2019s probably deliberate. Ultimately, the judge of this will be the Speaker, and there is a whole range of things in the Speaker\u2019s determinations and the rules around funding allowances and things like that, where, ultimately, the Speaker has the final say. The same checks apply\u2014as I said probably about 10 minutes or so ago\u2014in relation to judgments around that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0ad6720d8ab46aa99d4cda7a31763cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0ad6720d8ab46aa99d4cda7a31763cb\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 4 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 4 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae19a9dd9ab549b190dfe9c78bb8d2ac\u0022\u003EPart 5  Clerk and Office of the Clerk\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002287fde5ca9b0a42579eb747c60717b0e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002287fde5ca9b0a42579eb747c60717b0e8\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come to Part 5, the debate on clauses 101 to 120, \u201CClerk and Office of the Clerk\u201D, and Schedules 4 and 5. The question is that Part 5 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 5 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 5 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223885996bd74748f8bbf1b068a4ca52ce\u0022\u003EPart 6  Parliamentary Service and other parliamentary bodies\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd4baaa5f5ff4b2cbcb30304fed305b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd4baaa5f5ff4b2cbcb30304fed305b7\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we now come to Part 6. Part 6 is the debate on clauses 121 to 161, \u201CParliamentary Service and other parliamentary bodies\u201D, and Schedule 6. The question is that Part 6 stand part. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EThe question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 6 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 6 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f8e920fa05345e181894c434babeeac\u0022\u003EPart 7  Parliamentary security\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00222eb349d8c90b411da57221982d6d5b43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222eb349d8c90b411da57221982d6d5b43\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, we come now to Part 7. This is the debate on clauses 162 to 190B, \u201CParliamentary security\u201D. The question is that Part 7 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u0022caea3a1299244460990a505a12127954\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022caea3a1299244460990a505a12127954\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Madam Chair. The Minister did allude to this a bit earlier, and, again, we don\u2019t want to labour this, but we want to spend a moment just reflecting. This is around parliamentary security. Again, without expecting the Minister to do everything I say, but you know, I\u2019d like him to explain a little bit what this is about, because I think what we currently have and what this part will do is quite a major change in terms of parliamentary security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EMy first question, just to open up, is around Subpart 1, so clause 162 to Subpart 1, just around the actual definition of a security guard. I just want to seek clarification that they are specifically employed by Parliamentary Service, because I know in the past, for example, an electorate office out in the provinces or out around the country, there have been moments when there has been red flag issues and obviously there\u2019s been security things put in place, but actually having a security guard, for example, Armourguard or others, for a set number of days or for a week because of something that\u2019s been heightened in that community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EMy question to the Minister is just to clarify that when we\u2019re actually talking specifically\u2014again, Subpart 1\u2014about the actual definition of a security officer, that they are specifically employed by Parliamentary Service, or does that go beyond it to contracted Armourguard-type of services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022be912f1e55e643ff938b7748d30941da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022be912f1e55e643ff938b7748d30941da\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m advised it does not include contractors; it applies to people employed by Parliament. The member Glen Bennett makes a good point that this is a change, and it is largely to clarify the law and make sure we have a modern approach to parliamentary security. It\u2019s modelled on the Courts Security Act, so the parliamentary security officers\u2014who do a very good job, may I say\u2014will be similar to those of court security officers, who, if you think about it, are the other branch of Government, the judicial branch\u2014they play a similar role in relation to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EThe bill gives parliamentary security officers statutory powers of consent, search, denial of entry, temporary seizure of specified items, and temporary detention. The powers apply in the parliamentary precincts, parliamentary meetings outside the precincts\u2014so, for example, sometimes select committees travel and do submissions in hotels or community halls; actually, I think probably we should do a little bit more of that, to be honest\u2014and electorate and community offices. Of course, if MPs do travel for those, it tends to be\u2014by definition, it\u2019s not Parliament, it\u2019s not the parliamentary precincts, and so because it\u2019s the sort of everyday, run-of-the-mill place, it makes sure that if there is security applied there, then those powers apply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EIt also gives security officers immunity for the appropriate exercise of their functions and powers. It\u2019s quite interesting: security officers here currently lack those statutory powers and immunities. They rely on the common law and the rights of an occupier under the Trespass Act 1980. I think we would all agree that parliamentary security here does an excellent job, and it is really important that they have the appropriate powers in order to make sure that people who work in this building\u2014it\u2019s not about MPs, to be honest; far more people who are not MPs work here than are actual MPs, so it\u2019s more about the staff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EWe also need to make sure that Parliament is as accessible as possible. I for one think it is a fantastic thing that it is so easy to visit our Parliament and it\u2019s free, and you should never be charged to come to Parliament. As long as you\u2019re not carrying things that you shouldn\u2019t be carrying, you can walk in, sit up and watch question time or you can watch the debates, and you can wander around and you can visit your MP. I mean, I\u2019ve been lucky enough to travel to other parliaments around the world\u2014sometimes even when I\u2019m being a tourist in my own time, I\u2019ve travelled to other parliaments; it\u2019s a slightly sad thing to admit. Other parliaments are not like that. They\u2019re not. The House of Commons in the UK, it\u2019s like getting into Fort Knox, which is sad but it\u2019s the reality. There are other legislatures and congresses and Houses of representatives which are all but impossible to visit as a tourist or even probably an everyday citizen. That is a sad reality, and I hope we never get to that point in New Zealand. But part of making sure we never get to that point is making sure there\u2019s appropriate security, so that\u2019s what this section is about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u002206ecac5be84a49fa98df444012ef6c0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ecac5be84a49fa98df444012ef6c0e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just have another question for the Leader of the House regarding this section. I\u2019m looking at the bold part of clause 172A to about 175, and I think that\u2019s to do with a definition of a \u201Cdetected item\u201D. Correct me if I\u2019m wrong; it could be something that I missed here. Would the Leader of the House be able to just clarify what a detected item is, or is a detected item based on the four possible processes and how the detected item needs to be surrendered is very much on the item itself? That\u2019s kind of the first clarification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EThe second clarification around a detected item is: does a detected item, in order for it to be handed over to the officer on reasonable grounds, mean that the item itself, for example, may need to be about to commit or have committed or have the potential to commit an offence or is considered dangerous? There isn\u2019t a specific definition I can see on what a detected item is and the different range it could be treated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u002271b82da96b2947cfbe07a349ca38690f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271b82da96b2947cfbe07a349ca38690f\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019m going to ask another\u2014[Microphone feedback] Oh, goodness me. I\u2019d like to ask a question in relation to security, again, in Part 7 of this bill. My question is really thinking about the amazing job that our parliamentary security officers do. They have a tough job in what is a really changed environment, particularly in the last three or four years, in terms of some of the risks that are presenting not just to MPs but to other people in the general public who want to come into Parliament. They have an amazing ability to detect and act, and we know that the existing provisions under common law, potentially, compromise their ability to deal with serious incidents, risks that would disrupt Parliament, that disrupt the running of Government. Though parliamentary agencies and members continue to advocate for Parliament\u2019s accessibility\u2014and there is clear feedback, we know, from public engagement that that should continue\u2014we know that that physical accessibility needs to be balanced with security and safety concerns.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe know, as the Minister has pointed out, that the New Zealand Parliament provides more physical access to the public than many, many overseas parliaments, and we do not want to lose that. But its security arrangements are, really, way out of step with our international counterparts. We know, from the review of parliamentary security, that staff regularly have to manage irate, threatening, and problematic individuals\u2014or even groups\u2014and they currently lack the legislative power to respond effectively, safely, and efficiently. They largely depend upon the police to be able to be here, and we see that police do come in here at those times. The review recommended that our parliamentary security officers be provided with legislative powers of detention as soon as practicable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EMy question, really, to the Minister is in relation to what training and support will be provided to our parliamentary security officers? If we are providing these additional powers, which I understand is the ability to detain people, they would have the ability to lay their hands on someone, to handcuff them, and to hold them until police arrived. That puts a number of health and safety risks upon the parliamentary security officer. We know, from police experience, that just simply the act of arresting somebody can result in physical injuries for both the arresting officer and the person being arrested. Those things are never as straightforward as you might think they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThere are a number of injuries, whether it be a dislocated shoulder, an injured finger, other scratching; there are a number of things that could go on if we are expecting our parliamentary security officers to step in and physically put their hands on someone. I think that New Zealanders would like to know that if we are providing this additional power\u2014which we\u2019re not arguing with; we think that there needs to be an increase of security here\u2014those front-line workers who are putting themselves on the line, what training will they be provided to deal with situations that could be volatile and dangerous?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ESecondly, what support\u2014additional to that training\u2014will be provided? We know that if someone has been assaulted or abused, that weighs upon a worker in the days and weeks after the incident has occurred. We know very well most of our parliamentary security staff here as our colleagues and friends, and we would like to be reassured that there is a plan in place to make sure that they are safe at work and that sufficient consideration has gone into how this will play out for their work safety on a day-to-day basis. I\u2019ll be interested to know the Minister\u2019s response to those questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6ee3b7c4f5a4e59a7d7ab503512939f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6ee3b7c4f5a4e59a7d7ab503512939f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E I need to clarify my answer from a few minutes ago in relation to the contractor point. The answer is that clause 136(1)(b) makes it clear that there can be contractors appointed if the chief executive considers it necessary and desirable, but they have to be qualified and trained to the equivalent standards. Sorry about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EMembers raised a couple of other really good points. I thank them for that. In relation to Mr\u00A0XuNan\u2019s point around detected items, any item found by a parliamentary security officer during a search, the security officer can ask to examine it and determine such matters such as whether it may have been used for an offence, for example, or is dangerous. It\u2019s slightly convoluted to get there, but, in a way that he\u2019s become known for, he\u2019s managed to find a tricky section of the tricky clause, and the references, for the member\u2019s notification, are clauses 172A(2) and 173(1)(b) and 173(1)(c). That, I think, deals with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EMs Andersen makes, I think, a really good point around quite broad powers given to security officers. The section is modelled on the Courts Security Act. Broadly, with some modifications for the parliamentary environment, the powers of security officers will be the same as those of court security officers. I can\u2019t exactly remember when the Courts Security Act was passed, but no doubt the courts went through a similar exercise to what Parliament\u2019s gone through, which is realising that there needed to be a bit more statutory tram lines and, you know, rules around security at courts. This brings Parliament into line with that, which I think is wholly appropriate. I\u2019m advised that there is already training and there will continue to be training for security officers who are here at Parliament, who, as the member says, do a great job. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EI would also draw, just more broadly, while we\u2019re talking about this part, on some of the quite careful drafting that\u2019s been gone through in relation to these powers. It\u2019s power to use reasonable force, but then there are a variety of checks and balances in the section as well. For example, clause 190B, the \u201CChief executive must report annually on the exercise of specified powers\u201D\u2014parliamentary security officers must report the exercise of certain powers; powers are not generally applicable if the police is involved. Yes, there are powers around detention and reasonable searches and things like that\u2014they\u2019re all there for good reasons\u2014but there are also checks and balances in place as well. I think that\u2019s wholly appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022 data-id=\u00229a425a98d7844478a66ce1754a9783e0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a425a98d7844478a66ce1754a9783e0\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. This question is really for listeners at home who might be wondering how this new legislation is going to impact their ability to protest and what the lines are there. I refer to the Minister\u2019s previous comments about the areas adjacent to Parliament\u2014in fact, he mentioned a couple of watering holes. I\u2019m wondering: what is a test for adjacency? That is going to have practical implications when it comes to electorate offices. There are some things around pavements and footpaths and so on. But is it feasible that if there was a protest or something where the centre of action that contained threat was at Parliament and it spilled over and went to some of those watering holes, would a parliamentary security officer potentially have, on reasonable grounds, the ability to intervene if it was the same kaupapa, if you like?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EThe other one is the question about reasonable grounds, which is a well-recognised legal test. But I would ask the Minister to consider how that interplays with the powers that are invested in the Speaker that we discussed previously, because I had asked if there could be some kind of clarification around process, and I think the Minister thought I meant through the legislative drafting, but, actually, it was more of a procedural thing. My question is: without a clear process of the Speaker using his or her powers through the chief executive or others\u2014the decisions that a security guard believes that they are making on reasonable grounds, which has a legal objectivity element to it\u2014what is the interplay if the Speaker has given a direction that has not gone through a process that involves the chief executive or if there isn\u2019t, kind of, a clear process? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thinking here about both the ability of the members of the public to protest in a strong way, but also security officers having clarity about what is reasonable grounds, because the Minister has mentioned the safeguards in a retrospective element, which is annual reporting, and so on. These are decisions that have to be made in very quick times\u2014split seconds\u2014by individuals weighing all these things up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EAgain, they\u2019re not conceptual or imaginary, because the very vexed questions that led to this legislation, in my view, were probably what we saw on the steps of Parliament and the lines that were crossed. There isn\u2019t a single view in Aotearoa New Zealand about how those lines were crossed. Many people had many different views about what was and wasn\u2019t appropriate. I think most people would agree that burning down the children\u2019s playground was not appropriate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003EIt is so important to have clarity, and I\u2019d just like to get an understanding from the Minister about that reasonableness test. Should it be considered alone, or how does it interplay with the Speaker\u2019s powers? Would, for example, a security officer be able to rely on action taken by the Speaker? Presumably, if it was pursuant to a recognised process, that would be fine, but where the Speaker has just said something and then that influences a security guard who may or may not have reasonable grounds, will that Speaker\u2019s direction form part of the reasonableness objective test legally? It is quite a technical question, but it has real-life implications for when people protest and for the very difficult job that our security officers have to have in making judgments in the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022a84cc8f5e82041248a64d9718eefa92b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a84cc8f5e82041248a64d9718eefa92b\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Leader of the House):\u003C/span\u003E The member makes good points, but if I could summarise what is reasonable, the answer is: it depends. That\u2019s the beauty of the word \u201Creasonable\u201D, and it\u2019s why it appears multiple times in the statute book and throughout the common law, because what is reasonable in the circumstances is fact-specific, and it\u2019s impossible, by definition almost, to give a definition, if that makes\u2014for me, it works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EHistorically, the common law has talked about the man on the Clapham omnibus. It\u2019s probably inapplicable to New Zealand\u2014the Karori trolleybus, or electric bus these days. What that person thinks is reasonable, that\u2019s the test, and it depends. The short answer is it depends. It\u2019s impossible to judge in advance. Yes, it is true that people have to make decisions. That\u2019s life. What\u2019s important is that there are guard rails and tram lines in place to guide that decision-making process and then, also, that there are checks and balances afterwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003EIn relation to the other point the member makes, Parliamentary Service officers can exercise powers only in the parliamentary precinct, a place where select committees are meeting, and electorate offices, where the chief executive has authorised it. Beyond that place, police have jurisdiction and the necessary power. To put this into real terms, when you walk into the gates down the bottom and you walk into Parliament, you\u2019re subject to Parliament\u2019s jurisdiction. When you walk outside and go down Lambton Quay, which is a public footpath or public road, the ordinary laws of the land apply\u2014well, they apply here as well, but you\u2019re not part of the parliamentary precinct at that point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221baa6ce9ebfe4de4bf02b027eaea81ae\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da5e9454dc0a4c06b800a3e6f3b32247\u0022\u003EIngrid Leary\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c7e30a0cc544268a5cf13c657da391f\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I was just wondering if the Rt Hon Adrian Rurawhe\u2014you were both standing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022 data-id=\u0022485de195d981404fa3a8f9d4ae7b1a4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022485de195d981404fa3a8f9d4ae7b1a4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon ADRIAN RURAWHE (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just wanted to add, on this section, that the committee considered a number of things. There was, as the bill was originally drafted, a procedure in there that required that when an object was removed from someone, they had to be detained. The committee decided that we wanted to give the security officers as many options as possible. For example, if that object was brought to Parliament unknowingly and not without intention of using it as a weapon, the danger was then considered to be over and detaining the person wasn\u2019t necessary, particularly if they decided they were leaving. Rather than bring police into it, the committee felt that that could be the end of that situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b6c340598b2b4f3a8fca502e31805586\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s relevant to the question that my colleague Lawrence Xu-Nan asked, as well. We considered a lot of things and decided that the common law that the security officers currently operate under just wasn\u2019t enough for 2025, and that it was important that we had a set of processes, that we had a set of rules that they could follow\u2014and, as the Minister pointed out, in a reasonable way, whatever that looks like. I think it\u2019s important that this House recognise the gravity of some of the situations that our security people become involved with. I think we owe it to the safe operation of our security and of this Parliament that we give them all the tools that they actually need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e038dafb0e2b44b6bf873999053cad8b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e038dafb0e2b44b6bf873999053cad8b\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u0022f7034a2df44e4d77b976f97d4905513c\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002295af7d7b074d41e28fc75b56e69135be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002295af7d7b074d41e28fc75b56e69135be\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the Minister\u2019s amendments to Part 7 set out on Amendment Paper 362 be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EPart 7 as amended agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7edf77098884d7c8f424e4cf16368b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7edf77098884d7c8f424e4cf16368b3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to report progress. Just for the House\u2019s record, I\u2019m going to do something a little unusual here. I\u2019m going to ask one of the members to report back to progress to me because our other Speaker is still in select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228336058439264fea9ddc66557ba9014b\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225b1750d204454c3b818b947da7c2c7db\u0022\u003EReport of Committee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u00224aeba955692244c19723a9f08c89bbbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224aeba955692244c19723a9f08c89bbbf\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Simon Court)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Parliament Bill and reports that it has made progress on the bill. The committee also considered the Land Transport Management (Time of Use Charging) Amendment Bill and reports it has made progress\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e61c9c5ed04c4439a85617f8f84b475d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I think that one\u2019s supposed to say \u201Cno progress\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214290e77400542a0a2683272e7e60d5c\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Simon Court)\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014has made no progress on the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224099482158834b2ab9b102ae72011be7\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CI move\u201D\u2014that\u2019s the last bit at the bottom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f59362e700e8493ab7f9f4598aca4935\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Simon Court)\u003C/span\u003E: I was going to say that it has made progress, like all of this progress we\u2019ve just witnessed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022000615a1f4814951b27488b3f44090bf\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it has made progress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022855b54fcaeee40c5ab7ede19ae89006e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we\u2019ve made progress on the Parliament Bill. We haven\u2019t made progress on the transport bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c13a294b3efd4dd5a92675df8ef3ce43\u0022\u003ETEMPORARY CHAIRPERSON (Simon Court)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, on that basis: I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002207eb23b8b7d241cc8bf05a9ca9879d19\u0022\u003ESpecial Debates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223a09e70187eb421cbfc43dbbbafb7348\u0022\u003EEnergy\u2014Issues\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002208928f1481a14c26b4f1567959a1821e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002208928f1481a14c26b4f1567959a1821e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, as per the agreement of the Business Committee, we now come to a debate on energy, and this has been arranged under Standing Order 80. Would some honourable member care to move that the House take note of issues relating to energy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022 data-id=\u00223f5e1a51e90d4f9984cc00cff5bf6652\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f5e1a51e90d4f9984cc00cff5bf6652\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy):\u003C/span\u003E I so move. Well, energy powers every part of our economy, from households to high value industries, and will increasingly determine our ability to compete in the global economy, but there is no secret that our energy system has been under pressure for some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is on the cusp of a renewable electricity boom thanks to this Government. Because of our work to knock down the barriers to growth and investment, more electricity generation has been commissioned in the past 18 months than in the entirety of the last 15 years. In the future, 95\u00A0percent of electricity will come from cheap, clean renewables, but there is one major barrier that we must overcome. Our energy system needs reliable back-up options to generate electricity during our driest years, when we cannot rely on hydro lakes or wind to generate sufficient electricity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAt the same time, our electricity market is not functioning as efficiently as it should be. New Zealanders need to have greater confidence that the electricity market has strong regulators and that there is competition sufficient to deliver the affordable prices we all need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThis Government will not kick the can down the road on these issues. This Government is taking action to ensure that power prices come down. We have a clear plan and strong, concrete actions already under way to address energy supply risks and to unleash renewables in order to bring down prices, to give households and businesses more control over their power bills, and importantly, to keep our economy growing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003ETo manage New Zealand\u2019s dry-year problem and bring down power prices, we need reliable sources that can be accessed quickly and on demand. That is why this Government has commenced procurement for an importation terminal for liquefied natural gas (LNG). LNG would booster\u2014I\u2019m sorry. LNG would bolster our domestic\u2014well, it would booster and bolster. It will do both.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5f40263277c486389516e7fe27b519f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a critical definition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239917a1a1eb5468698f6df976fa2eadd\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Anyway, let\u2019s keep going. It will bolster our domestic natural gas market by supplying, of course, that fuel for dry years and supporting our electricity system during times of seasonal peak demand\u2014helping to, of course, unleash more renewables as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAlongside this, officials are working very hard at options for other dry-year investments. A decision on the best way forward will be made by the end of this year. The Government has also written to Genesis, Mercury, and Meridian to ensure that they know that the Crown is prepared to support capital funding requests for strategic and commercially rational investments that support energy security. This will ensure a perceived lack of access to Crown capital does not stand in the way of New Zealand\u2019s energy security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also leveraging the Government\u2019s energy use, like hospitals, to help unlock new investment in different types of energy generation. Instead of using our demand to pay for generation that we already have, we\u2019re going to use it to stimulate new generation solutions to be built and increase New Zealand\u2019s total energy supply as a result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAll this work is underpinned by the progress we have made to supercharge renewable energy through our policy, Electrify New Zealand. The Electrify New Zealand programme includes a wide range of actions to support faster and cheaper consenting of energy infrastructure. It will mean more new wind, more solar, more battery, more energy storage systems, and other generation powering our homes and businesses every year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EThe Huntly agreement is also an important step in securing short-term security of supply, but more needs to be done to invest in energy security and build better markets for the long term. To stop these problems from re-emerging, we need to work with industry to develop a regulatory framework to ensure power companies deliver the back-up supply that Kiwis need and deserve. We know that the electricity market must be backed by a powerful regulator. The Electricity Authority should be stronger, more effective, and have harder enforcement tools to ensure New Zealand\u2019s electricity system is reliable and delivers better outcomes for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EWe are also carrying out a targeted package of reforms to ensure the Electricity Authority can improve market rules, stand up to pressure, and deliver change that will support security of supply, investment, and, importantly, lower prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAt the same time, the Electricity Authority is taking action too. New rules will ensure hedge contracts are traded fairly. They will require gentailers to treat independent generators and small retailers the same as their own retail businesses. This will help enable new developers and generators to enter the market, help industrials access firm supply contracts, and ensure independent retailers can compete more fairly on an even playing field.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAs distribution charges make up a quarter of Kiwis\u2019 power bills, it\u2019s important that electricity distribution businesses work as efficiently as possible to avoid passing on unnecessary costs to consumers. We\u2019ll be working with the industry to deliver greater efficiencies on how electricity distribution businesses (EDBs) operate. We\u2019re also making it easier for EDBs to invest in new generation projects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EIn addition to the energy package, we\u2019re also ensuring the security of our gas and fuel supplies and diversifying New Zealand\u2019s fuel mix. Businesses are struggling to get gas contracts and are facing significant price increases compared to the historically low prices we\u2019ve enjoyed in New Zealand. As a Government, we have prioritised removing barriers to viable alternatives such as biogas and biomass for firms that can and will switch away from gas, and businesses can also access the 2025 Investment Boost policy, a great tax policy by this Government to support fuel switching. Diversifying New Zealand\u2019s energy mix with new fuels and energy sources is an important aspect for our long-term energy security. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EYesterday, I released New Zealand\u2019s first Wood Energy Strategy and Action Plan, setting out a clear vision and objectives for the future of the wood energy sector in New Zealand and outlining current and planned work to support the strategy, including co-funding opportunities. In addition, yesterday we also released a Government statement on biogas, reaffirming the Government\u2019s commitment to the biogas market and setting out key actions that will enable its growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EIn line with that, there is a significant package of work under way across the regulatory system to make installing solar easier and cheaper and our energy use smarter. This includes updating electricity safety standards to make it easier and cheaper to install rooftop solar systems, increasing the voltage range on electricity networks to accommodate higher levels of solar electricity, and electric vehicle\u00A0(EV) charging across the country. We are also introducing legislative changes to enable standards for smart energy devices, including smart EV chargers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003EAs you can hear, there is a significant amount of work already under way and in place and that has been delivered by this Government. We know how important energy is. We know the important role that it plays in driving economic growth and it is a fundamental input into our economy. As a country, we should and must desire to have abundant and affordable energy, and that is the opportunity in front of us and that is what we must harness and get on and build the generation that will deliver that outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b67c00627fe149dab1593e9912aa2255\u0022\u003ETo conclude, I want to reassure Kiwis that this Government is undertaking comprehensive action to ensure that our energy system continues to meet New Zealand\u2019s needs into the future. We acknowledge the challenges and the difficulty around high energy prices. We have identified the problems causing that and we are now implementing the suite of actions that will resolve those problems. This is a Government of action and we are delivering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u0022869abcdde14842ffb5478f9ca25e0ee2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022869abcdde14842ffb5478f9ca25e0ee2\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E The House has chosen to set aside an hour of its time to debate energy issues; something that says it\u2019s a serious issue for this country, something we really need to work on\u2014hopefully, in many ways, in a bipartisan way, because there is much that we can agree on in the energy space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWhat I want to do, however, is to take this debate first back to defining what some of the issues are in the energy space. When I started to think about it, I thought, well, here are the three broad areas of concern around energy in New Zealand. The first is around supply\u2014sufficiency and certainty of supply\u2014the second is around pricing, and the third is around climate. Let me just talk through each of those issues and why they are a particular concern for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll start with supply and certainty of supply. Of course, what has been affecting the country today does point to that, in some regards. We know that, right at the moment, around about 90,000 households are without power. I don\u2019t know how many businesses are without power, but given that many households are out, so many businesses will be too. I heard there\u2019s some quite big outages in Southland. There must be some farmers there who are a bit worried about milking and how that\u2019s going to happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EOf course, the outages today have been caused by the massive storm through the country. I\u2019m sure that the thoughts of everyone in this House are with the people who are affected directly by the storm and with the workers who are out there trying to get the power back on\u2014I know they\u2019ll be working hard out there. But that certainty of supply can be affected not just by storms but literally by whether there is sufficient supply; whether we can rely on the fact that walking into our lounge, our kitchen, our business and turning the switch on means that the lights go on. It\u2019s one thing for the lights to be taken out by a storm, but another if our supply isn\u2019t certain. That\u2019s something we need to do in this country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWe need to make sure our electricity supply, our energy supply, is certain. In particular, we need to think about what\u2019s called firming\u2014making sure that our system is robust. That\u2019s a really important thing. But businesses need to know that their supply is secure. Households need to know that their supply is secure. Hospitals need to know that their supply is secure. Supply is very important to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EGoing alongside the supply of power\u2014just being sure that it actually will arrive when we turn on the switch\u2014is, actually, the price of power. Power needs to be affordable. Energy needs to be affordable. Now, we\u2019ve seen just in this last week new inflation figures have come out, and when we do the calculations, we\u2019re told that inflation in the year to 30 September has been 3 percent. If you go to the actual data issued by Stats New Zealand and look at the actual index and do the calculation, the actual inflation wasn\u2019t 3 percent; it was actually 3.046875 percent, but, of course, the rounding God smiled upon that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIf the index had been one point higher\u2014if the index had been 1320 instead of 1319, a very small difference\u2014the inflation rate would have been 3.125 percent, outside the Reserve Bank\u2019s band. One of the things we know that is driving that inflation rate has been the price of power. In particular, in the Stats New Zealand release, the prices and deflation spokesperson said that, in actual fact, the 11.3\u00A0percent annual increase in electricity prices over the last year is the largest since the March 1989 quarter. It\u2019s a little bit hard to comprehend what\u2019s going on. This is the graph which came out in the Stats New Zealand release. This is just this very last year, and in just this last steep incline\u2014oh, I can deliver it to you shortly, if you like, Minister. That very, very steep incline and increase in power prices in that last year shows the increase. It was steep; it was hard. We have seen businesses closing because of that increase in power prices. We have seen jobs lost because of the increase in power prices. We have seen real hardship in households because of the increase in power prices. Not only do we need abundant power and readily available power; we need it available at a price that our businesses and our households can afford. That is the second aspect that we need to think about when we\u2019re talking about energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThe third is climate\u2014the third is climate. We simply must move to renewable power\u2014end of story. There is no choice about it. We must move to increased use of renewables such as wind and solar. We must move to increased use of geothermal power. We must ensure that we have the appropriate batteries, the reserve supply of power\u2014and, frankly, the South Island hydro lakes that we use right at the moment for our everyday power, they are nothing but enormous batteries. Perhaps we need to start thinking of them as that and then having that reliable source of power from the South Island hydro lakes as a battery, and thinking of other renewables as the regular, everyday source of power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another reason for going to renewables. It means that New Zealand can be independent in its power. If we are importing coal and gas from overseas, we are not independent. This is where I really disagree with part of what the Government is proposing to do in its energy strategy. If we look at the Government\u2019s energy strategy, one of the things that they have said they would do\u2014if I can find the \u201Cat a glance\u201D\u2014is to set up a permanent fuel depot. Got it, got it, got it\u2014they\u2019re going to launch a formal procurement process for a liquefied natural gas import facility, importing gas, permanently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWe actually need to transition away from gas. I mean, there\u2019s a whole rhetoric that says that it\u2019s cleaner than other forms of power, but, to be clear, it is something we need to move away from in the next decade or so. Why set up a permanent fuel facility for something that we actually need to be moving away from? That is one area where we simply need to make a difference there, and I urge the Government to do that. Again, no matter what, using fossil fuels contributes to our greenhouse gas emissions; we need to make a difference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EIn terms of what we actually do, well, we do need an affordable, secure, clean energy source for the 21st century. We do need to get away from those fossil fuels. I see the members over there shaking their heads. There is only one area where we may need to continue with some fossil fuels for a bit longer, and that is in supplying process energy\u2014the sufficient level of energy for manufacturing in some of our industries. That could be a reason to maintain some of the fuels that we have for a short time until new methods of providing process of energy eventuate. There\u2019s some really interesting progress being made in that space, reported just in the last few weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EAside from that, if South Australia can have days when all their electricity is generated 100\u00A0percent renewable\u2014if Victoria can do it, if Queensland did do it\u2014so can we. We can do it with wind; we can do it with tides; we can do it with solar\u2014solar, which operates in all sorts of weather. Then we need to think about how we build our reserve batteries. If we have sufficient batteries, we have sufficient reserve supply of power, then we can guarantee that secure supply. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EAbove all, we need to start thinking about power as a utility. We need to stop thinking about it as a commodity that must be sold at the highest possible price. We need to think of it as a utility that enables the rest of our economy. If we change our way of thinking, we can do better on energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022 data-id=\u0022690f8e3a1ec7432da5d72dbf73c4756c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022690f8e3a1ec7432da5d72dbf73c4756c\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Everyone deserves to be able to heat and power their homes without breaking the bank. These days, that\u2019s far from a given. Regional industries, sawmills, factories\u2014they\u2019re all closing down because of high power bills. Cheaper and cleaner power\u2014that\u2019s what Kiwis deserve, and it\u2019s all within our reach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EPrior to entering Parliament, I ran a peer-to-peer electricity network. It was a social business, and it was killed off by the power of the large electricity companies, the gentailers who control the market. There was no level playing field. Gentailers want us to be passive observers and consumers who just accept unaffordable power bills, not active participants in the energy system. It doesn\u2019t have to be that way. Kiwis want choice and Kiwis want to participate. We\u2019re fed up with those high electricity prices and the excuses that keep on coming. We seem to get nothing but excuses like the nonsense that the oil and gas ban has resulted in an energy crisis, or that burning fossil fuels is better than clean energy from wind and solar.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThe future isn\u2019t with the fossils. Those who keep on proposing that are doing our country a disservice. You can smell the fumes on their breath as they gaslight us. The evidence is really clear that gas production peaked in 2001 and has been declining since 2014, four years before the oil and gas ban. Oil and gas companies have spent billions and come up with nothing\u2014talk about chasing rainbows. The rapid decline in gas in our energy supply is significant. It demonstrates a lack of strategy or planning for our future and no one gains from the oil and gas ban fantasy that this Government repeats ad nauseam.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s time to step up and take responsibility for an active role in planning our future. That would mean first addressing energy hardship. Over 100,000 people cannot afford to pay their bills. It\u2019s a choice between heating and eating. Now is the time to resource the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA), and I will support any move by the Minister to ensure Budget 2026 restores EECA\u2019s budget so that Kiwi homes can be made warmer and more energy efficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s much more that can be done. Reform of the electricity market to provide confidence with stable prices and investment in renewable energy and storage are key. The Government can make a big, positive difference in the lives of Kiwi households if it could just summon the courage to take on the electricity giants and place people over profit. We need to ensure those level playing field measures are implemented, because what we\u2019re seeing is something that looks like they\u2019ve been watered down. My bill, the Electricity Industry (Separation of Generation and Retail Businesses) Amendment Bill, would ensure this, and the Government is welcome to make use of it, because we can\u2019t be afraid to do what\u2019s right for Kiwis, even if it means uncomfortable conversations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EHouseholds all around the motu would benefit from being able to generate their own energy, their own renewable electricity, from solar and batteries; a ratepayer assistance scheme\u2014easy to implement; our Clean Power Payment $6,000 grant, $30,000 interest-free loan\u2014very, very helpful for people who want to implement solar or insulation. Integrating mobility into our energy system will also bring big benefits. We need to develop vehicle-to-grid capability where EV batteries can be used to inject stored energy back into businesses and households so that next winter vehicle-to-grid vehicles will be online when we need them, when high prices are there, when we\u2019ve got stress on our energy system. Australia\u2019s got a model we can adopt. It works in the UK. Why can\u2019t we do it here? The Frontier report showed how to bring the total cost of electricity to consumers down by over $2 billion per year simply by taking control of Huntly and using it strategically by pricing it separately as a system backstop. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003EThis is one thing that we can agree with. The market hasn\u2019t and isn\u2019t delivering. Our energy system is too fundamental to everything we do to sit on our hands and do nothing. A Green Government will act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fb0f7d83d7c4bb494c0b114efef7b6c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc5ca0dd9dd14e079184cea9248b4fbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc5ca0dd9dd14e079184cea9248b4fbb\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, as we debate energy policy, we need to ask what matters most to Kiwis. New Zealanders don\u2019t want to hear more buzzwords and see more bumper stickers about a just transition. It\u2019s not ideology; what they want is reliability, they want affordability, and they want certainty. They want their lights to turn on when they flick the switch, they want their homes to be warm in winter, and they want their power bills to be affordable, and that\u2019s what ACT in Government is helping to deliver. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve made massive progress by repealing Labour\u2019s ban on offshore oil and gas exploration. That cost this country billions in dollars of economic vandalism, and it pushed us to burn more imported coal. The ban told the world that New Zealand is not serious about energy investment. It was a political stunt dressed up as policy, and New Zealanders paid the price and they know who\u2019s to blame. Now, with ACT in Government, we\u2019re restoring energy security and investor confidence. Sovereign risk is being replaced with sovereign responsibility. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EJust today, I stood in support of Minister Watts\u2019 Offshore Renewable Energy Bill. That bill, improved by the select committee process, is about turning potential into projects. It lays the foundations for private capital to build offshore wind and marine energy developments with clear rules, firm time lines, and proper protections, because if we do want affordable, low-emissions electricity, we need to unleash the full mix of wind, hydro, solar, and, of course, geothermal; gas; and\u2014yes, that trusty black nugget\u2014coal. If we\u2019re honest with the public, they will know that we need thermal firming in the form of gas and coal so that we can continue the renewables build-out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, the Greens and Labour might not agree, but I\u2019ll tell you who knows that. All of the renewable energy companies who have come to my office and, no doubt, to other members here, have said, \u201CIf we can\u2019t get a firm thermal contract to underpin our investment in renewables, we won\u2019t build the renewables.\u201D That\u2019s called physics; that\u2019s called finance. Let me be clear: having gas and coal supporting our renewable build-out is not a failure; it\u2019s responsible planning. It\u2019s engineering reality and not living in a political fantasy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EEnergy policy isn\u2019t just about generation; it\u2019s about what gets built, how it gets built, how quickly, and where. That\u2019s why ACT in Government is leading the charge to replace the Resource Management Act (RMA) with a system based on property rights that respects environmental limits. For too long, the RMA has choked off investment in energy infrastructure with red tape and runway ideology\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba9e3ae049484e589410c7cc59c3443c\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: So where\u2019s the national policy statement? In June last year\u2014in June last year. Another broken promise, with nothing there. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022900905400bbc4604a02ebc51a8b9464e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: If that member, \u201CSwitched-on Scott\u201D from the Green Party, wants to contribute further to the debate, he should take another call. But this morning, I heard him say that the solution to wind turbines in New Zealand\u2014which need mined minerals and which need petroleum products to make the resins for the turbine blades\u2014is wooden windmills. That\u2019s what the Green member offered this morning. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EUnder ACT\u2019s reforms, power stations will get built, transmission upgrades will get delivered on time, and projects that generate value for New Zealanders will get out of the courts and into construction. That\u2019s how we lower bills, that\u2019s how we restore energy security, and that\u2019s how we build a system that is fit for the future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also working to make New Zealand competitive internationally. Investors can choose to build in Australia or New Zealand, or somewhere else entirely. That means that our rules must be bankable, our time frames predictable, and our institutions that govern the energy sector credible, and I commend Minister Watts for the work he\u2019s doing to reform and strengthen the regulation of the system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019re delivering all of that, not by waving a magic wand but by doing the hard work, line by line, regulation by regulation, and project by project, that the Government is providing investment capital for. ACT is ensuring, in our role in Government, that energy remains secure, affordable, and reliable. What that means is that the lights are on, homes are warm, and we have jobs to go to. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022 data-id=\u00221bd1fea6b865435d947c5ea3b10b256d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bd1fea6b865435d947c5ea3b10b256d\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Energy is our greatest infrastructural vulnerability, and we\u2019ve had widespread calls\u2014and, actually, we\u2019ve heard in this debate, as well\u2014for a long-term energy strategy, and I completely agree with that. Also, we\u2019re working, obviously, on a bipartisan approach to infrastructure strategy. But these things need to last beyond one Government and into another Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003ENew Zealand once had a competitive advantage in cheap, abundant renewable energy, but not anymore. There are three things that we need out of energy: we need cost\u2014for it to be affordable\u2014we need reliability, and we need sustainability; and sometimes, those things are in conflict, especially at the margin. I do not believe what I have heard from the Opposition. What Labour did\u2014of those three objectives\u2014is they went for the virtue-signalling sustainability at huge cost to affordability and security. Every time you pay your electricity bill or your gas bill and it\u2019s higher than it used to be, you can say, \u201CThank you, Labour!\u201D, because they contributed to that. Every time a factory closes and people lose their jobs, you can say, \u201CThank you, Labour!\u201D, because they contributed to that. That is what the oil and gas ban did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EPeople from within the industry tell me that was the greatest act of economic vandalism\u2014economic vandalism\u2014that this country has ever seen. This is from a party that used to be a bluecollar party\u2014it used to be a blue-collar party\u2014that sabotaged Northland, closed down Marsden Point, sabotaged Taranaki with the oil and gas ban, and it\u2019s still going. Central North Island\u2014we heard Willie Jackson earlier today talking about Gilbert Sydney and his difficulty in finding a job. Well, what happened? Kinleith. Why did Kinleith close down? Why did Winstone close down? The oil and gas ban, high energy prices\u2014all part of the same thing. That is the effect of that captain\u2019s call that that party made in 2018, what has been described as \u201Cthe most catastrophic act of economic vandalism ever seen\u201D\u2014this is a quote from an industry insider\u2014\u201Cin New Zealand\u201D. That is a quote. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EWe lost 1,000 megawatts\u20141,000 megawatts\u2014of gas-fired power stations; that is the effect of that. Pre oil and gas ban, the price of electricity was around $75 per megawatt, and in 2024, $250 per megawatt. The industry insiders are saying if we had not had the oil and gas ban, it would have stayed at between $75 and $150 per megawatt\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8467c8323824c1483efaaddc08182f7\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Have you talked to anyone in the energy sector? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ae50504abd475ea8bc0d478343dc61\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: That extra $100-plus is the effect of that oil and gas ban, and these people on the Opposition benches do not realise it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225af47bf01e62425596b083115eb60bc1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022241df9ca58ea4454ae49b5eb921b30af\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: I mean, you know that\u2019s a load of rubbish. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224384abb945224abbb42ee6ecc5f036ef\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Willis, comments, not commentary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8ced9ade6c54986b5adaeeb6727ef29\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: In winter 2024, what kept the lights on for Kiwi homes was industry closing down. We took 20 percent of all energy use off. That was the Winstones, Kinleiths, Methanexes\u2014all of those kinds of business. That was the effect of that, and that has directly gone to Kiwi jobs, like Gilbert Sydney, who Willie Jackson was talking about earlier today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EOh, and, eventually, of course, unless we find some more gas, what\u2019s going to happen to roughly a million Kiwi homes that use gas at the moment? They are going to have to convert at the cost of something like $10,000 to $13,000\u2014the current estimate per household. Those are the kinds of numbers which are coming out of the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority (EECA). Think of the cost of that conversion. That, again, will be \u201CThank you, Labour, for that!\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EI visited the Glenbrook Steel Mill recently. It\u2019s a very cool, heavy industrial plant. Gosh, we haven\u2019t got too many of those left! It\u2019s great to see some products actually being made in New Zealand, and there\u2019s some good news there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f848b2ff184f4385abaa8b4c71875aac\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, Labour, for the GIDI Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c3cf8580a54a23a302531e0bd2518c\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, there is some good news, Labour! I can say well done on the electric arc furnace, because that\u2019s really good stuff. But part of it is the rolling mill, and without that rolling mill, which cost $2 billion back in the day, and it cost that much mostly because of union action\u2014great\u2014it\u2019s now at risk. Why is it at risk? Because it relies on gas\u2014and, again, about 1,400 direct jobs and about 5,000 indirect jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EThis is what we need: we need an electricity system that actually works for New Zealand. Yes, renewables, but also we need the firming part of that, whether it\u2019s geothermal\u2014just remember that solar energy works, effectively, at about 16 percent of capacity all the time; wind, about 46 to 47\u00A0percent; geothermal is about 98 percent, for example. Hydro could be about the same kind of level. That firming capacity is absolutely essential.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EOh, and on geothermal, the other thing that I\u2019d say, buried in Labour\u2019s brilliant\u2014was it the three waters or 10 waters scheme? However many waters it was in the end. It was short consents for geothermal plants. What that meant is they would have had to reapply every 10 years\u2014every 10\u00A0years\u2014for a new consent. Basically, as soon as they got the first one, they\u2019d have to start applying for the second one, which imposes on all the vagaries of the consenting process and, often, being held to ransom for those consents.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EWhat that means is that you would not build a lot of those geothermal plants now, because you could not get, under those rules, a consent for long enough. Yes, we need a strategic approach. Yes, we need a mixed approach. One other thing I want to say that is super critical\u2014deep geothermal that Shane Jones is pushing, I think, is a really important thing. The one thing I do agree with the Opposition on is that we do need some firming to sit behind and underpin the whole system, and the State has a role in doing that. Thank you, Mr Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad960518842a4f37bc670f3964d009d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad960518842a4f37bc670f3964d009d1\u0022\u003EDAVID MacLEOD (National\u2014New Plymouth):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on a matter of national significance: the role of natural gas in New Zealand\u2019s energy future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EAs the member for New Plymouth, I represent a region that has long been the cornerstone of our domestic energy system. Taranaki has powered this country for generations through innovation, resilience, and a deep commitment to energy security. Today, as we navigate the complex transition to a low-emissions economy, I say this: natural gas remains essential well into our future. Energy security is not just a luxury; it is a necessity. Natural gas currently provides about 20\u00A0percent of our electricity generation, particularly during peak demand and dry years. It is the firming fuel that steps in when the wind doesn\u2019t blow, the sun doesn\u2019t shine, and the lakes are low. Without it, we risk blackouts, price volatility, reduced productivity, and increased reliance on imported coal. That is not the future I think any of us want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear: renewables are the future, but they are not yet fully capable of meeting our baseload and peak demands on their own. Until we have more renewable generation and large-scale storage, natural gas is our insurance policy\u2014a stabilising force in an increasingly complex energy system. Natural gas is not just about electrons and pipelines. It\u2019s about people. It\u2019s about jobs. It\u2019s about regional development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EIn Taranaki alone, the gas sector supports thousands of skilled workers, from engineers and geologists to technicians and tradespeople. Nationally, it underpins industries that are vital to our economy, including food processing, steel, aluminium, glass, and many other manufacturing businesses. In fact, over 19,000 businesses rely on gas every single day. These are the businesses that employ New Zealanders, pay taxes, and contribute to our export earnings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EThe Government\u2019s recent commitment to co-invest in domestic gas development is a vote of confidence in our energy sector. It sends a clear message: we are backing New Zealand - made energy. We are facing the challenge of restoring investor confidence, reducing sovereign risk, and ensuring that our energy future is built on a stable foundation. The Government is committed to our climate goals, but we must be pragmatic, not ideological, in how we get there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003ENatural gas is the transitional fuel, a bridge that allows us to scale up renewables, develop green hydrogen, torrefy black pellets, and invest in carbon capture and storage. It gives us time to innovate without compromising reliability and/or affordability. Already, we are seeing progress. New Zealand\u2019s first biomethane-to-pipeline facility is in operation in Reporoa, and hydrogen blending trials are under way. These are the building blocks of a cleaner future, but they must be supported by a stable present. Let us not forget: a just transition is one that leaves no region, no worker, and no industry behind. Energy policy must be grounded in certainty. It must be grounded in clarity and also collaboration. This Government has taken decisive steps. We have lifted the exploration ban. We are reforming the Crown Minerals Act, and we are working with the gas industry through the Gas Transition Plan. We are building a smarter, cleaner, and more secure energy system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229990aad25a6e4a8f9c306a25d79370b0\u0022\u003EIn an increasingly uncertain world, energy sovereignty matters. We cannot afford to become overly reliant on imported fuels. Domestic gas production gives us control over our energy destiny. It strengthens our resilience in the face of global shocks. Natural gas is not the enemy of progress; it is an enabler of it. It is the bridge to a future powered by renewables and innovation. Let\u2019s be clear-eyed and future-focused. Let\u2019s invest in what works, while building what\u2019s next\u2014and let\u2019s ensure that New Zealand\u2019s energy future is secure, sustainable, and sovereign. Mr Speaker, thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022df50c0e85b8e4d45907cf4d88f10d38b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022df50c0e85b8e4d45907cf4d88f10d38b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next speaker, Mr MacLeod, you read that speech. Clearly, you have some good knowledge of it. I think you\u2019ve been in the House long enough now to be able to, largely, leave the paper down. For the future, I\u2019ll be in the Chair watching you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9d7332bd4f440d0a8aafd7d5a3d5661\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9d7332bd4f440d0a8aafd7d5a3d5661\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. The Government promised fundamental change\u2014\u201Cfundamental reform\u201D, I think Simon Watts\u2019 words were\u2014for the energy sector. You have so many New Zealanders who are struggling every week to be able to afford their energy bill and you have businesses shutting down. Each month, we see another business shut down because of the cost of energy. That fundamental reform that was promised by the Minister, quite simply, did not materialise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EAs well as no fundamental reform, and the disappointment that ensued, there was no actual real plan in place. I think it was Frontier Economics who was commissioned in\u2014Frontier Economics: not known for their supportiveness of renewable energy. They were asked to come in and take a look at market design and market performance. They reported back with a whole range of recommendations. They\u2019ve picked someone who they think is going to give them the answers they want; they don\u2019t give the answers that they want, and so they don\u2019t do any of it. The only thing that happened was to build a container where we can buy some more natural gas at a much higher price than what we\u2019re already paying. That\u2019s not a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe other solution that they\u2019ve come up with is that we\u2019re just going to keep looking for some more natural gas, even though we haven\u2019t found any for\u2014what?\u201420 years. Is it 20 years since we\u2019ve actually discovered any? Even if we do find gas\u2014this is a debate; I\u2019m interested to hear the answer\u2014in the next while, 10 years to get it online\u2014what\u2019s going to happen between now and when you get that online? What\u2019s going to happen in that time? How many Kiwi families are going to be able to afford their power bill? How many businesses are going to close because they can\u2019t afford? There are no answers provided to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe next bit we saw from those reforms was we saw the Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis, write a letter\u2014another letter; she\u2019s already written to banks and supermarkets, and maybe Fonterra too, or was that just a meeting?\u2014to the gentailers, saying that, \u201CIf you want to go and build some stuff, we think that\u2019s a great idea.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EAfter that announcement, which was nothing apart from a letter, a big tank, and a promise to keep looking, what happened was that the profits and the shared value of all of those gentailers went up several million dollars. Try and explain that to hard-working New Zealanders who can\u2019t afford to pay for their energy bills, have been told this Government is going to deliver on the cost of living crisis, and instead what they do is they serve the big end of town by making decisions that bake in those profits and drive them up even higher. While we can\u2019t afford our bills, those companies\u2019 share prices have gone up. I don\u2019t understand how that works at all. There was a real opportunity to relieve New Zealand businesses and households with a burden of a broken energy system, and they completely dropped the ball.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EFossil fuel companies are happy. They\u2019re happy because they have their beneficiaries from these so-called reforms, but it is not doing anything in New Zealand to save jobs or create jobs. We have a Government that has once again bowed down to those vested interests and failed to deliver for New Zealanders who are counting on them. They promised big. They raised our expectations. If he had half a brain, he would have just played it down, but he said, \u201Cfundamental reform\u201D. We all got our hopes up. They promised big and let us down. It reminds us on a daily basis how out of touch this Government is. Kiwis were promised a bold energy plan with immediate action, but thanks to this coalition of absolute chaos, they\u2019ve brought no plans at all but just higher bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EI would like to hear, in this debate, some solutions, because what we heard from the last speaker, David MacLeod, who did largely read his speech, is that natural gas is our insurance policy. That was the key line we took out of that. That\u2019s their plan\u2014hoping to find natural gas. The question I want to ask is: if the profits that are baked into those gentailers are reliant upon fossil fuels, how does the Government plan to incentivise investment in renewables? That is the question I would love to have answered, and that is the question that New Zealanders would like to have answered as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWe have an abundance of renewable energy in New Zealand, and as much as you cry \u201Cfast track\u201D from the mountaintops, it doesn\u2019t change the fact that you failed to deliver on the cost of living and you simply rewarded the big end of town, whose profits increased by your lacklustre announcement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022081b0799fc7942a6a7282d642743a053\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022081b0799fc7942a6a7282d642743a053\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Ms Andersen, you were talking about me\u2014you were marginal about your accusation, but, certainly, when you\u2019re accusing the Chair of it, it makes it even more dire, for future reference.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6e7833f7a054a3287ef503c1c11bc1b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6e7833f7a054a3287ef503c1c11bc1b\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Today, I want to talk about the small but very industrious town of Kawerau and its enormous contribution to keeping the lights on in New Zealand. Kawerau is a great place, an extraordinary little town, wonderful natural resources and a fine community, and I\u2019m looking forward to getting back there next week\u2014home to 7,670 people in the land of T\u016Bwharetoa ki Kawerau.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EToday, we\u2019re discussing energy, and I want to link the two together, because we\u2019re talking particularly about the work being done to double our renewable energy generation by 2050. I wanted to bring to the House\u2019s attention the massive contribution Kawerau is making to this objective\u2014clever partnerships and a growth mindset, welcoming industrial development as part of their town. It\u2019s wonderful to see. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EAbove ground, Kawerau is the industrial engineering epicentre of New Zealand, home to a few mills and various other industrial operations, and a long-term, loyal workforce firing on all cylinders. But below ground is where it all becomes about the energy. The Kawerau geothermal field spans 35\u00A0square kilometres. It has fluid temperatures ranging from 250 degrees Celsius to, I think, 310\u00A0degrees Celsius. It has an estimated resource available of up to 570 megawatts. That\u2019s a phenomenal amount of energy. It currently produces enough energy for one-third of the Eastern Bay of Plenty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EThis is the kind of energy we need in New Zealand: sovereign energy, the kind no one can take away from us; firming energy, sustainable and secure, that secures our supply; and clean energy, because geothermal plants produce 7 percent of the emissions of a typical coal plant. How do we get more of it? Well, Kawerau will do it. In fact, they already are\u2014the little town that could. Eastland Generation, a wonderful community trust - owned company from Gisborne, the wonderful Tair\u0101whiti, has partnered with a number of iwi-based partners, I guess, in Kawerau, including\u00A0Kawerau A8D Ahu Whenua Trust and the Ng\u0101ti T\u016Bwharetoa\u00A0Geothermal Assets Organisation. They are doing an enormous amount of work. They are already producing 26 megawatts, 9 megawatts, 24 megawatts, and currently, in work right now, 49 megawatts of geothermal power in the station that\u2019s about to be commissioned in November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EIn addition, you will have seen the announcement this week of the Government\u2019s Wood Energy Strategy, a fine piece of work. We are very pleased to say that this week, \u201CMinister MegaWatts\u201D himself announced that wood energy could replace around 40 percent of fossil fuels process heat by 2015 and displace 300,000 tonnes of coal at Huntly. This would reduce reliance of our energy system on imported fuels and domestic gas, and cut down on emissions. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EKawerau already has the solution\u2014one step ahead, again: a torrefied wood pellet project with international company Foresta, which will see the establishment of a patented pine chemical and torrefied wood pellet facility with the capacity to produce 57,000 metric tonnes of chemicals from pine trees and 216,000 tonnes per annum of black wood pellets. Foresta has advance orders for 80\u00A0percent of its products from the first manufacturing facility, and its plan is to produce up to 2.1\u00A0million tonnes of torrefied pellets every year, which will replace the coal intake needed. This project, along with others, typifies how we create security of energy supply, regional economic growth, emissions reduction, and reasonably priced power for homes and industry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EWhen the previous Government landed on this notion that we shouldn\u2019t have coal and gas in this country and that we should wage a war on energy infrastructure like Marsden Point, they did it with no solution in hand. The international investment community lost faith in us and they took their money elsewhere, and we were left this winter wondering where the gas would come from and what would power the heaters. It was lazy thinking and tantamount to energy thuggery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002242664a30b2084eecaa14aec43ec7cf61\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an inspiring time for the Eastern Bay of Plenty, for the little town of Kawerau, and the future that they hold in their hand with geothermal energy, torrefied wood pellets, and the many other things that we can do in New Zealand that come when the rain doesn\u2019t rain, when the wind doesn\u2019t blow, and the sun doesn\u2019t shine. We\u2019ve got to have some other options, and this is where it\u2019s happening. This is the beginning of it all. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022 data-id=\u002290584b0dff9f4812beb8ff0ec3a72a02\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002290584b0dff9f4812beb8ff0ec3a72a02\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Kia ora, Mr. Speaker. I stand as a proud member of the Labour Party and a list MP based in Taranaki who\u2019s lived\u2014for 25 years, actually\u2014in the energy province. I\u2019ve always been very proud that it is the energy province. It has the potential\u2014and we were working on that potential\u2014for it to continue to be the energy province, to be the clean energy province not only of Aotearoa but of the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EI also stand here as Labour\u2019s tourism and hospitality spokesperson. As I get around the country and as I listen to people\u2014as I meet with small businesses, large businesses, and regional tourism organisations\u2014we often reflect on the picture that New Zealand paints to the world. Now, we look at Tourism New Zealand, and it\u2019s almost 25 years, as well\u2014that\u2019s the \u201C100% Pure\u201D New Zealand brand, which has been in the eyeballs, in the ears, in the stratosphere of the world around what to expect when they arrive in our beautiful and amazing country. I am committed as a member of the Labour Party, and I\u2019m committed as a member of this community and society, to ensure that New Zealand remains \u201C100% Pure\u201D. We need to put a line in the sand. We need to step up and not kick the can down the road but take responsibility for how we can look to our future, how we can be good ancestors and look to our grandchildren, our great-grandchildren, and those who will come after us, and say, \u201CIt was hard.\u201D, and say, \u201CIt wasn\u2019t easy, and we weren\u2019t popular, but we did what was right so that you have the benefits of \u2018100% Pure\u2019 New Zealand in 100 years\u2019 time.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EI stand by the work that Labour in Government did. In fact, I stand by the work that the Labour and New Zealand First Government did when they stood up on the podium and announced the fact that there would be no more offshore permits issued. Onshore was fine, and I think we got the balance about right, because I wasn\u2019t in Parliament then, but I remember all of my conservative oil and gas friends were angry at me. They were angry, because what have we done? We\u2019ve destroyed everything! Then, I remember all of my Green and all of my amazing friends on the left, and environmentalists, who were angry with me because we hadn\u2019t gone far enough. I think sometimes, when you have people on both sides of the argument angry with you, maybe you\u2019re getting it just about right. You\u2019re just trying to find that middle ground to move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a lot more for us to do, but we need to be committed to the fact that we can\u2019t just keep kicking the can down the road on energy. We can\u2019t just keep kicking the can down the road to figure it out maybe in the next Parliament, or the next generation will figure it out. We need to stand up and make a stand. I am grateful for the work that was done by the Hon Megan Woods in the energy portfolio. I\u2019m grateful to her in terms of the investment in Ara Ake, looking at new ways of creating clean energy for the future not just here in New Zealand but around the world. I\u2019m grateful for the work that she did on green hydrogen and what it could look like, what it could do around innovation when it comes to moving heavy freight around the country and around the world. I am grateful that we are looking down at things like people\u2019s households. We\u2019re looking at people\u2019s businesses, we\u2019re looking at factories, we\u2019re looking at hospitals, we\u2019re looking at schools, we\u2019re looking at the corner dairy, at the local bakery, and even at this building\u2014as the lights flickered as we started this debate, earlier in the afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EWe need to consider: how we do get our energy strategy right? What do we do to ensure that all New Zealanders have access to decent, affordable, and clean energy so that we continue to be New Zealand, \u201C100% Pure\u201D? We can all do it if we have the will. We can do anything we want in this Parliament, if the Government has the will\u2014they\u2019ll find the money to do what is right to supercharge clean and cheap, affordable energy. If there was the will, they would find a way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003EIn closing, I think that next year\u2019s election will definitely be fought as the \u201Celectric\u201D election. I think we need to consider the fact that the price of electricity, how we set up our grid and what we do, can and will be done. They often talk about bipartisanship or tripartisanship, but you have to lean in, you have to have conversations with each other. We are committed to ensuring that all New Zealanders have clean, cheap, affordable energy into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022abe26680e29e4cb8b62a4ba5633d25aa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abe26680e29e4cb8b62a4ba5633d25aa\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u2019Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time for this debate has expired. I congratulate those hardy souls who have remained to the bitter end after three long weeks of sitting. Congratulations, and make the most of your week off. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 4 November 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2025102359c30c53234644c98f54bcd0ba752b8a000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002299e5598886df43299456ba8aed7d56b3\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 5.53 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"