"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222a0a8f726ed34a4cbde48dcf2b129045\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db26de7ed33d404283b1a1880dd9473a\u0022\u003EWEDNESDAY, 12 NOVEMBER 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000002\u0022\u003EThe Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c34eb4e012b74b15bcae450defb214b5\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ca4b1d9ad13d421daed388bb28182298\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u002285b1ba55a46d49d0a7f302915f9c78e5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002285b1ba55a46d49d0a7f302915f9c78e5\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker):\u003C/span\u003E E te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E[Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King, and pray for guidance in our deliberations, that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c62269cc72be48ff99e6ef3664c396d1\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00229da5e854dbc847d398427e1e77748735\u0022\u003ENational Day of Reflection for Survivors of Abuse in State and Faith-based Care\u2014Acknowledgment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022 data-id=\u002229084d46e63f4e5bab51990a53083597\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229084d46e63f4e5bab51990a53083597\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Lead Coordination Minister for the Government\u2019s Response to the Royal Commission\u2019s Report into Historical Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That this House acknowledge today, the National Day of Reflection for survivors of abuse in State and faith-based care. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003EOne year ago today, the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition, on behalf of this House of Representatives and Governments past and present, apologised for the abuse and neglect suffered by children, young people, and vulnerable adults in State and faith-based care, and for the torture of children and young people at the Lake Alice child and adolescent unit. It was an apology that this House acknowledges, while meaningful for many survivors, can never undo the harm, the trauma, and the disenfranchisement inflicted on tens of thousands of people who should have been protected and cared for, and, instead, they were utterly let down and were failed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003EToday, a year on from the apology, marks the National Day of Reflection. Around New Zealand, 65 events led by survivor communities and their supporters are commemorating the day in ways that are important to them. It is important that this House acknowledge today the harm that was caused to so many and the devastating impact it has had on their lives, and the critical and ongoing work that I know every member across this Parliament is committed to do to ensure that such terrible events can never happen again, so that the wrongs of the past are not repeated. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022625b767707f6446e8d6a0fe3b7de0c5a\u0022\u003EMembers stood as a mark of respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220f0e40f9fe7e4e31aa4d1680483a9001\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225fa96a3794264021b1384396f0721b3a\u0022\u003EPetitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00227a124d81be264ea3998c42c0a52bf8b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a124d81be264ea3998c42c0a52bf8b8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Two petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022b7d51ef92c9f4c6bbb0b34f089947302\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b7d51ef92c9f4c6bbb0b34f089947302\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Terry Morris requesting that the House require members to pledge that they will resign if, with the exclusion of cosmetic treatment, they use any health service other than those funded by the Government\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Nicola Harris requesting that the House update the Child Support Act to pay penalties for non-compliance to the receiving parent, give IRD powers to take harsher enforcement action against non-paying parents, and improve the IRD administration review process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00222a0b2830fcb445278e19a07047eba7de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a0b2830fcb445278e19a07047eba7de\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions are referred to the Petitions Committee. Ministers have delivered five papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022\u0022 data-id=\u0022a60ffe380ed24299a70c40788ff879e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a60ffe380ed24299a70c40788ff879e4\u0022\u003ECLERK\u003C/span\u003E: \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual reports of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003Ethe Electricity Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EMaritime New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003EReal Estate Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003ETourism New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-25 Statement of Performance Expectations of the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2ee450b9b9c41ed82139f5f6bbee09a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2ee450b9b9c41ed82139f5f6bbee09a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House. No select committee reports have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002293b6895d07c3423994278dd069b2ed75\u0022\u003EMinisterial Statements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e385776be6e44bdb2e069ae8834235a\u0022\u003EIndependent Police Conduct Authority\u2014Report on the Review of Police Handling of Complaints Against Jevon McSkimming\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022 data-id=\u00229a3f9cd1c3a744498676a3ccdacb5b5b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a3f9cd1c3a744498676a3ccdacb5b5b\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I wish to make a ministerial statement on the report by the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) into their review of police handling of complaints against Jevon McSkimming. I want to acknowledge the Independent Police Conduct Authority for their comprehensive work on the report. Complaints were referred to the IPCA on 10 October 2024 that included allegations of sexual interaction without consent, threats to use an intimate visual recording, and misuse of a police credit card and police property to further a sexual relationship. These included both allegations of criminal conduct and potential breaches of the police code of conduct. The allegations arose from a sexual relationship between the complainant and Jevon McSkimming that developed in 2016.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe IPCA\u2019s findings reveal significant flaws in decision making, judgment, and actions, and are made in respect of a very small group of people in the former police executive, including the former Commissioner of Police, two deputy police commissioners, and an assistant police commissioner. The IPCA found that no effective action was taken when a comment was made on social media at the time of McSkimming\u2019s appointment as a deputy police commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EIt found that no action was taken by senior police officers after the Fixated Threat Assessment Centre recommended referral of the allegations contained in hundreds of emails, three 105 reports, and a social media comment to the National Integrity Unit and the IPCA. Complaints made to 105 about police officers are required by statute and agreement to be notified to the IPCA. This was not done. The only action taken was to investigate and prosecute the complainant under the Harmful Digital Communications Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EWhen a preliminary investigation was initiated, the terms of reference were inappropriately worded and did not comply with police\u2019s adult sexual assault policy. The matter, when referred to the IPCA, saw the then police commissioner attempt to influence the nature and extent of the IPCA\u2019s investigation and its time frame. Others in police perceived this as a clear attempt to ensure the investigation did not impact McSkimming\u2019s prospects of being appointed as his successor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe IPCA also found that there were repeated failures and inadequacies by the then police commissioner to disclose information relating to the allegations to the Public Service Commission during processes for McSkimming\u2019s appointment to his first statutory deputy role and then later around his potential appointment as acting police commissioner. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe behaviour outlined in the report is utterly disgraceful. We cannot forget that at the very core of this is a woman who was severely let down by the previous police executive and the system. As a father of daughters and an uncle of nieces, I cannot express how frustrated and disappointed I have been since becoming aware of the situation. In making this statement, I want to acknowledge those staff highlighted in the review as having showed exceptional moral courage. They have done themselves, their colleagues, and their organisation proud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the 15,000 dedicated men and women in police who serve and protect our communities with distinction and bravery every day. I\u2019m incredibly proud of our outstanding front-line staff. They have, as Commissioner Chambers has said, been let down. I can assure her and all New Zealanders that the Government is taking these findings extremely seriously. On becoming police Minister, I have been unequivocal in my expectations of police that conduct and integrity must be held at the highest standard across the police service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EI have acted decisively at every juncture. On 6 November 2024, Andrew Coster informed me that there was an IPCA investigation into Jevon McSkimming surrounding an affair that he had had and that had soured. He informed me that there was a female before the courts for harassing McSkimming. The narrative I was presented was consistent with the narrative highlighted in the IPCA report that McSkimming was a victim. I want to stress that at this stage this is all I or the Government knew.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe IPCA investigation raised questions as to whether McSkimming was fit and proper to carry out the duties of acting police commissioner. Given that Coster was soon to leave the police and having been appointed to another role, the following day, I met with the Public Service Commission and the Solicitor-General. I was concerned about McSkimming\u2019s ongoing fit and proper person status in relation to his current warrant and the ongoing prosecution of the complainant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EI met again with both parties on 13 November raising similar concerns. On 14 November, I wrote to acting commissioner Tania Kura to highlight my concern that investigations are properly and carefully conducted to form the basis for advising the Prime Minister of McSkimming\u2019s fit and proper person status. I received a reply the next day that it had been agreed that McSkimming would be placed on special leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EOn 11 December, further information was elevated to me by the new commissioner about the police investigation into the complaints against McSkimming. I instructed the Public Service Commission to commence a process to suspend McSkimming\u2019s warrant pending the result of that investigation. The warrant was suspended on 23 December 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EIn early May this year, I was informed of another investigation surrounding objectionable material found on McSkimming\u2019s police laptop. On learning of this, I advised the Public Service Commission that I was no longer satisfied that he remained a fit and proper person to hold statutory office. Three days later, this information was presented to McSkimming, and the following Monday, 12 May, he chose to resign. If he had not done that, his warrant would have been revoked. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand police enjoy strong public trust and confidence. It is imperative that this trust is maintained, and that comes with strong action on the part of the Government and the police. The Government and the police have accepted the IPCA\u2019s recommendations. These adverse findings should not be seen as a reflection on our police service as a whole. Like most Kiwis and our police officers, I\u2019m extremely disappointed at what has been revealed by this report. I want the public to be assured that this Government takes this seriously and is working to do everything we need to do to prevent this happening again. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u0022b0577f1128ec459695cfdcc116067e0c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b0577f1128ec459695cfdcc116067e0c\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. It is clear from the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) report that senior police failed the woman at the centre of this report, and they also failed New Zealanders. It is inexcusable and a complete failure of duty. The handling of these complaints did not meet the standards of transparency, fairness, or independence expected of New Zealand Police. The report shows that internal processes were influenced by rank and relationships rather than by impartiality and professionalism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EWhen a woman is brave enough to come forward with serious allegations against a senior officer, she should be treated with respect and have confidence that her complaint will be investigated without fear or favour. That did not happen. This was not just a failure of process; it was a failure of leadership, accountability, and duty to the public of New Zealand. Police now have a significant job ahead of them to restore public confidence. The integrity of our police is built on public trust. Every day, New Zealanders rely on police to uphold the law, protect our communities, and respond to moments of crisis. That relationship only works if people believe that police act impartially, regardless of rank, regardless of reputation. When misconduct by senior officers is mishandled, it damages that trust. It makes it harder for victims to come forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThe IPCA has made it clear that while many parts of the organisation operate with integrity, the systems at the top are not yet strong enough to ensure accountability in every case. Rebuilding confidence will require visible, sustained action, not just words. With that, I believe the culture within the New Zealand Police needs to change to make sure this never happens again. The IPCA\u2019s report acknowledges that the organisation has made major progress since 2007, with the Commission of Inquiry into Police Conduct, led by Dame Margaret Bazley. That inquiry made 60 recommendations to strengthen ethics, independence, and complaint processes. Police did respond. They established a code of conduct, ethics training, and policies to ensure independence in investigations. The AuditorGeneral monitored progress for 10 years, and further reviews in 2017 and 2022 recognise substantial improvements, but it is important, as the IPCA itself notes, that while police have made significant advances towards a more positive culture since the Bazley inquiry, the findings graphically demonstrate that the settings in place to protect and enhance integrity are still not sufficiently robust to enable the public to have confidence that police will do their job without fear or favour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EThere needs to be a sustained plan of action to effect further substantial change. That is the challenge right now: to maintain the positive gains and culture while eliminating the negative patterns that persist at senior levels. It is within all of our interests, across all political parties, to ensure that the New Zealand public have sufficient trust and confidence in the New Zealand Police that they can report a crime, be listened to, and have it investigated thoroughly. That trust is essential. It underpins every part of policing in our country, from community safety to serious crime investigations. Without it, people hesitate to come forward, and they lose faith that justice will be done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003ELabour supports the changes set to be made by the commissioner and the Government to restore public confidence, including the appointment of an Inspector-General of Police. Independent oversight is essential. The new inspector-general will provide a safeguard to ensure that investigations into police misconduct, particularly at senior levels, are fair, consistent, and free from internal influence. Labour supports this reform alongside broader measures to strengthen police integrity, such as enhanced leadership, accountability, continued ethics training, and stronger whistleblowing protections. We will also support the commissioner\u2019s efforts to rebuild trust, provided that these efforts are transparent and measurable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003EEvery day, officers go to work. They do it with integrity, professionalism, and genuine care for their communities. Those officers deserve leaders who uphold the same values they live by every day. This report makes it clear that at the most senior levels, that standard was not met. When leadership fails, it damages the morale within the organisation and erodes public confidence outside it. Strong leadership is not only about management; it is about setting an example of integrity, accountability, and transparency. That is what front-line officers do every single day. That is what the public expects from the top. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022 data-id=\u00220d946627b1d742cd86ac2d9065fcd521\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d946627b1d742cd86ac2d9065fcd521\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E We want to recognise the mana of the most important person in this entire report, and that is the mana of the woman\u2014the brave, courageous woman\u2014who came forward, the woman who is a survivor. On this particular day, we wish to acknowledge every survivor of any form of abuse by any person in a position of power or influence over that person. It\u2019s particularly stinging to have to discuss this on this particular day. The headlines are taken up by this matter instead of being a platform for amplification of the voices of survivors today. Instead, it is being highlighted by the actions and behaviour of people in the highest ranks of the police\u2014the police; people we are told to trust, and people that we are told are here to keep us safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that I\u2019m glad that we got this report, and that it is a real shame that the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) only have the resource to investigate 2 percent of all of the total cases that are reported to them. We have been saying for a long time that the police needs higher levels of oversight over their conduct. Let\u2019s be clear: this is a not a case of one man\u2019s actions; there were multiple senior police officers, including the former police commissioner, who all colluded to cover up genuine complaints of abuse and misconduct.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003EThe way that these allegations were covered up is perhaps the most disturbing part. They took a relationship between a senior police official and a woman 20 years his junior, where a clear power imbalance existed, and where there was alleged abuse, and they charged her\u2014they charged her. They failed her, and she is not the only one. That is the reason why 94 percent of sexual assaults in this country go unreported to the police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003EI want to quote from a meeting I had this morning with survivors about this very case: \u201CSilence protects those who cause harm.\u201D More importantly, in the way in which this case unfolded, and in many cases of survivors of abuse in State care, police can be obstacles to justice, but they shouldn\u2019t be, and all of us should make sure that they are not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003EThe new police inspector-general adds another layer of oversight, but I want to add some of the things that we are pushing for to add further accountability to the police. We want all police to wear body cameras. It\u2019s what corrections officers do; we think that the police should do the same thing. We want better resourcing for the Independent Police Conduct Authority, and we want them to have power to discipline officers at whatever rank they sit in, and we want the IPCA to have the power to actually change police practices, including directing the police commissioner himself. Lastly, we want greater limits and safeguards on police power and discretion, including in regard to arrest, entry, search, and seizure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003ENow, we have some questions for the Minister of Police in relation to this report. We want to know which of the IPCA\u2019s recommendations the Government will be implementing, and by when. Will the Government be looking to introduce any legislation that amends the Policing Act before the end of the year, given the graveness of this situation, and given the many statements that have been made about this never happening again? Although, I will note this has happened before. I also want to ask the Minister whether he\u2019s concerned about the impact this cover-up will have on public trust in the police, and what will he be doing to try and repair that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022 data-id=\u00229faf27900e7b4bc6b7ec35ed861c97a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229faf27900e7b4bc6b7ec35ed861c97a5\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve noted the issues that the member has brought forward, in terms of the changes they wish to see. In relation to the Independent Police Conduct Authority of New Zealand (IPCA) recommendations, both the police and the Government have been clear that we accept all of those recommendations. In relation to the legislation, probably the Attorney-General will handle this, but there will probably have to be new legislation that will deal with the formation of an inspector-general, and the office will provide a much higher degree of oversight; the ability to go uninvited and look at police processes, prosecutions. We think that level of oversight\u2014it\u2019s timely for that, now. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EIn terms of public confidence, absolutely; it would be naive to think that there hasn\u2019t been an impact on public confidence. We are dealing with the prior police executive, the most powerful and influential police officers in the country. We\u2019ve all been horrified, I think, to see the findings of the IPCA and how deep that ran, and the behaviour that was exhibited by those officers, but I do also want to reinforce the fact that it was a small group; it wasn\u2019t our entire police service. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EBy Louise Nicholas\u2019 own comments\u2014and there is no one that has got a stronger or more authoritative voice when speaking to police culture than Louise Nicholas\u2014she acknowledged the police have come a long way in the last 20 years. We have quite simply got outstanding police officers that turn up to work every day, that deal with extremely difficult sexual violence, family violence cases. They show empathy, they are professional, and they guide those cases through court so there can be justice delivered for those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EI would ask the public to focus their anger and disappointment at the previous police executive, and not at our 15,000 outstanding police men and women who turn up to work every day to protect and serve the communities that they live in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022 data-id=\u002296b9b1d2e65545b096033b2e22f0f1f6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002296b9b1d2e65545b096033b2e22f0f1f6\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central):\u003C/span\u003E I have a few additional questions, and I want to thank the Minister for the constructive answers to our questions. I wanted to know whether there was a timeline on that significant piece of work that the Minister talked about and when we can be expecting to see introduction of anything, or when that work might occur. If the Minister has been advised on any timelines, we would like to know that. We also wanted to know whether there would be any space or room for cross-party collaboration on increasing the accountability and oversight of the police, and whether that is something that the Minister would be willing to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022600463834e2b44919d490825199c3adc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022600463834e2b44919d490825199c3adc\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E To the second part of the question, absolutely. There should be cross-party work on this, and I\u2019m very happy to chair that myself to make sure that work is done. In relation to the first part of your question, we\u2019ve accepted the recommendations, and it would be fair to say that now we will be working as quickly as we can to make sure they are implemented \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00228e6f995d468d469aabf2d99d3712d453\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e6f995d468d469aabf2d99d3712d453\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister want to have a right of reply?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022 data-id=\u002232c8b3dae9c1499eabe9d1e94e22759c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232c8b3dae9c1499eabe9d1e94e22759c\u0022\u003EHon MARK MITCHELL (Minister of Police):\u003C/span\u003E I guess all I\u2019d say is that for us a nation and a country, we have all been rocked by the findings of the Independent Police Conduct Authority (IPCA) report, because it goes to the very heart of what we all have to have trust in, and that is the executive leadership of our police.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EThe one thing that I would say is that prior to us receiving the IPCA report, there had already been definitive, firm actions taken from both the Government and the new incoming commissioner\u2014well, he just celebrated his first year of his appointment as commissioner\u2014Richard Chambers, a man of integrity, a genuine leader, someone who is deeply connected with his front line and cares about his front-line officers, and someone who understands inherently the responsibility of delivering to the public and maintaining that public confidence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022431c44e96b404fec94dd8cb073e716f7\u0022\u003EI guess the one thing that I\u2019d leave you with\u2014and anyone watching our Parliament today\u2014is that we are going to work as hard as we can, whether it be in Government, whether it be me, and whether it be our police commissioner, to make sure that we take the actions, that we deserve to retain that public confidence and support, and that we support our front-line police officers to continue to go out and do the outstanding job that they do every day. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022950a5229ef3248ba9adddd99d3c85ec7\u0022\u003EUrgent Debates Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002269cc4a16c4ed4d2a93c6c25d73bee959\u0022\u003ERoyal Commission of Inquiry into Historic Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions\u2014Progress on Implementation of Recommendations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00229b42073a23e44f30b3f3300c2a1b0edd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b42073a23e44f30b3f3300c2a1b0edd\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from the Hon Willow-Jean Prime seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the lack of progress on the recommendations from the royal commission\u2019s Report into Historic Abuse in State Care and in the Care of Faith-based Institutions. Even if I accepted the member\u2019s opinion on the implementation of the recommendations of the royal commission, the absence of action on the part of the Government is not a particular case of recent occurrence that can be raised for urgent debate. I refer members to Speakers\u2019 ruling 222/4. The application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002292fabec5e14d41519b555e8a7b3eef9d\u0022\u003EOral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c0f4898b10847e6b67f6381f6fecb4e\u0022\u003EQuestions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c280a9f20d4242e6ac997f04aa3036b6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022 data-id=\u00228ff33a5244064bb18852c9f6c22e4198\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ff33a5244064bb18852c9f6c22e4198\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: What recent reports has she seen on the economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u00224c0d3915a50746e69dc27d05bb39c289\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c0d3915a50746e69dc27d05bb39c289\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Morningstar DBRS, the fourth-largest credit rating agency, recently released for the first time a sovereign credit rating for New Zealand. Morningstar has rated New Zealand with a triple A rating, the highest possible rating. Its view is that the Kiwi economy is rebalancing, economic growth is set to accelerate, and the Government is pursuing a gradual fiscal consolidation, designed in a way that doesn\u2019t cut across this economic recovery. Morningstar\u2019s triple A rating is in line with others. New Zealand also has a triple A rating from Moody\u2019s and has an AA\u002B rating from both S\u0026amp;P Global and Fitch Ratings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb7717da5c60411b8db351892a943b46\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Why does having a strong sovereign credit rating matter? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200653649db644fee94043ce99fc94cd1\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It simply means that the Government can borrow on international markets at reasonable rates. The Government borrows regularly for new purposes and to roll over existing debt. The regular weekly bond tender is for $450 million, with additional tenders, typically in the billions of dollars, occurring periodically. That debt has a cost. At present, it\u2019s around $9 billion a year in interest. If our credit rating was downgraded, that interest bill would go up, as lenders would demand compensation for higher risk. That would of course flow through to retail interest rates, as New Zealand would be seen overall as a riskier country. Recently, S\u0026amp;P downgraded France\u2019s credit rating, and French bond yields\u2014that is, the interest rates on French Government debt\u2014rose immediately. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ddd5fdaa8ffa4021aad2583c948682d4\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What impact would a ratings downgrade have on the cost of New Zealand\u2019s debt? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022067eb435832c4b5ca3a42d21fe056587\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s hard to isolate the direct impact of a ratings downgrade, because it\u2019s likely that a deteriorating fiscal outlook\u2014which is typically the driver of a downgrade\u2014would already have been largely priced in by financial markets. In other words, interest rates on Government bonds would already have risen, at least in part. As I\u2019ve said, however, French bond yields rose immediately on S\u0026amp;P\u2019s downgrade, and I am advised that a one-notch downgrade to New Zealand\u2019s credit rating could lead to an increase in bond yields of up to around 15 basis points on the day of the downgrade. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc40af66373746efbae48597b5196cfa\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What did Morningstar have to say about New Zealand\u2019s ability to maintain its credit rating? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002277f0ca03ce624ce8aa9adebbda1938dd\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Morningstar said that New Zealand\u2019s credit rating could be downgraded if there was an absence of fiscal consolidation over the medium term, or a severe financial or external shock. Another credit rating agency, Moody\u2019s, has also said recently that downward pressure on New Zealand\u2019s rating would develop if fiscal consolidation was not effective and there was a persistently higher debt burden. It is clear that we cannot take New Zealand\u2019s strong credit rating for granted. Those who seek to ramp up Government spending and debt should think very carefully about what that would do to New Zealand\u2019s hard-won international reputation and to interest costs, which ultimately fall on New Zealand households, businesses, and taxpayers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9c9bbe71a24459d9546eeb7c4707c74\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022 data-id=\u0022a9175a96fb8542a4883e2bc5cb6c92d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E2. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a9175a96fb8542a4883e2bc5cb6c92d7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u002281f811a5d67842a49287d10a8fc965d5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281f811a5d67842a49287d10a8fc965d5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd33b8e172b24682b1fcbe088c62e210\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: When he said that New Zealand needed to have an honest rather than emotional conversation about asset sales, was he referring to Winston Peters, who said that his proposed asset sales are wanton neoliberalism, failed economics, an admission of failure, and a disaster?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022524e31b3a51e412896fb83ec14509bf0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m just excited that the member\u2019s come back overnight. He\u2019s learnt a little bit about what a capital raise is versus an asset sale, he\u2019s learnt the difference between equity and debt, and he wants to have another economic conversation\u2014from the man that spent $66 billion and failed to take account for it and didn\u2019t show up to a COVID inquiry. I\u2019d just say to the member: I answered this question yesterday. It\u2019s entirely appropriate that we actually have a more sensible, less political conversation to say, \u201CAre our assets deployed in the optimal way to get the best return to New Zealand taxpayers and citizens and to deliver them benefits?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8ca2d3e22974b19ada7f36a40d617d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Was Winston Peters wrong when he said the Government\u2019s proposal to sell down its remaining interest in Chorus was \u201Ccreative accounting of the worst sort\u201D, and, if not, in what ways was he wrong?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6ece0125f324d11a75f10f88d91ad5d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: On Chorus, again, I noticed the member was very confused about equity and debt. They\u2019re two pretty basic concepts in economics, but having watched his public comments in recent weeks\u2014but, again, what we have going on here is a legitimately good inquiry to ask for some advice to say, \u201CIs there a different way to actually offload that debt now rather than later so that we can deploy that money into something\u2014an asset\u2014that would have more benefit to New Zealanders than being tied up in Chorus debt?\u201D We\u2019ll get that advice, take it to Cabinet, have a good chat, and we\u2019ll see where we get to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b5e267913d041a0af7be49fa7323b04\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If Winston Peters calls the Prime Minister\u2019s explanations \u201Ccreative accounting of the worst sort\u201D and doesn\u2019t believe what he says on asset sales, why should New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc0c4b59ad1c4916b49b46dc29c8cfd6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, I think it\u2019s a pretty petty line from this member on economics, right? He\u2019s the guy that actually lit the fire. He\u2019s the arsonist that put the economy on fire. Now, he\u2019s complaining about the fire brigade putting it out again. His literacy on anything economics is abysmal. But I just say again: we are looking at things so that we can make sure that our balance sheet, as a Government, is used optimally for the benefit of New Zealanders. The member himself came up with a policy a couple of weeks ago called the Labour future fund. He said he\u2019d based it off Temasek in Singapore. Temasek in Singapore\u2014one of the key hallmarks of that economy is they are able to recycle assets. That\u2019s all that we\u2019re asking for a conversation to take place around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297ccb4d068c544f5b945a55fc49cb82e\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister agree with Labour Party policy council member Craig Rennie that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb26fbf432d7475d9f13d092220abb33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, sorry. Hang on. Stop right there. He\u2019s got no responsibility at all for any view, and he can\u2019t express it today. Is there another supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf9b7612a04d4052a85d71d1f44652a8\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement \u201CIf you want a job, you go where the jobs are.\u201D; if so, does he believe the thousands of people in regions like Hawke\u2019s Bay and Gisborne\u2014where there are 78 percent more unemployed people under his leadership than before it\u2014should simply pack up and leave their communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5bc395006694aa6bbfaefdf1e901d80\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the member has a real problem, on any topic, asking questions of this Government, because he abysmally failed. At a time of 3.2 percent unemployment, he created a 60 percent increase in people on jobseeker support. That is unacceptable. We have ambition for young people in New Zealand. We\u2019re not just going to consign them for the welfare list where they can sit there for 18 years. We want them connected to employment, training, and work, and if they have to move to do that, so be it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022034df582fd3f4adca8e9999c0575314a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he saying to the 78 percent increase in unemployment in Gisborne and Hawke\u2019s Bay that they should just pack up and leave the regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fe9eeb6a3fb4c2d85468479bbf35d09\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: What I\u2019m saying is that this is a Government that cares about young people on a jobseeker benefit, rather than the last Labour Government that just chucked them out there and didn\u2019t give a toss. We care about them, we think they\u2019ve got potential, we think they\u2019ve got a future; we want them connected to work, employment, and education; and we\u2019re going to do something about it, not just talk about it and watch the unemployment rates go up while unemployment was at the lowest it\u2019s ever been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231a700b1725b455e988c8fbb28212ecd\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he stand by\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233e5934673974290812c209bc200c263\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just hang on. Don\u2019t start until your own team calms down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae62d5fcb1d441b09bb3634abc4dde97\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement \u201CIf you can work, you should.\u201D, given the number of unemployed 40- to 44-year-olds has doubled under his watch as Prime Minister, or does he think that people in their 40s are sitting at home playing PlayStation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5fc2c8f19ac464fa59fa84d7d95ebeb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m just not taking lectures from that member on anything to do with employment policy, given how badly he wrecked the economy. He may wish to be the great gaslighter, forgetting the record, but I\u2019m going to prosecute you on your record, because you deserve to be attached to it. But the bottom line is that we care about getting people into work because we actually think that\u2019s good for people, they have potential, and we are doing everything. We\u2019ve got a great Minister making sure people are prepared and ready to work, and that\u2019s great. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f944468abdcc42ca85a087e0d7fabe9b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s clearly an important exchange that goes on, and there will be an animated position taken from both sides of the House, but it\u2019s going to stop for the rest of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d72f8df8584044c78c65de9e99fbfe4f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u2014Prime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022 data-id=\u00223a5d0bbe1e314751b2321dc2e66148c0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E3. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a5d0bbe1e314751b2321dc2e66148c0\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green)\u003C/span\u003E to the Prime Minister: E tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E[Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022 data-id=\u00228fa30e1830f14eb1adeaceeae29185cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228fa30e1830f14eb1adeaceeae29185cc\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister):\u003C/span\u003E Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226066ef473d1a415c9d3e938732ab899b\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to implementing all Government-centred recommendations of the royal commission of inquiry into abuse in care, as called for by survivors?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c455716864ab42c9ab5329045744c109\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, this is a Government that\u2019s working its way through the 207 recommendations. We\u2019ve already accepted or partially accepted 85 of those.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241e74525ef34406bac23adec20db4ab6\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that not implementing recommendations in the way that the abuse in care report sets out undermines the dignity of survivors of abuse and the point of the sixyear-long royal commission of inquiry, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022013c00bfe5fa4560868f53c5cef5c204\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s important this is a Government that actually takes those recommendations very seriously. They need to be weighted and considered. There\u2019s 99 more of them to be considered and actioned. But at this point, we have partially accepted or fully accepted 85 of the 207.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226969c318a4a843eb909272e377a5c1b7\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Did he scrap the design group\u2019s proposal, which would have been a pathway for meaningful redress for survivors, instead funding the broken and retraumatising existing system?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240171f14d49a4b31a8c9db3deaaf3a14\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We considered lots of different approaches to a redress system, but at the end of the day, we decided it would be time-consuming, expensive, and disruptive, and, frankly, these survivors have waited too long. I\u2019m proud of the fact that we\u2019ve put $770\u00A0million into Budget 2025 to move this forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec279c9fdb7648b0a35d490d3471ea18\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he accept that barring survivors of abuse who later committed crimes from receiving full redress minimises the violence they experienced and lets the Crown off the hook from taking proper responsibility for State harm?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e7f925399a74df2854b57d9d6e4fbad\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve taken a similar approach to Australia and Scotland, with respect to serious offenders, and we also have an independent decision maker and a robust process for those cases to be considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c9009c5cf5494842897c71bb42cfee2a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203729ad855fd4407a43b05c7a5cb1190\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: How can adults and children being abused in care today trust that they will be listened to and that things will get better under his Government if even a royal commission of inquiry into 50 years of historic abuse is undermined?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299e7d9747eb84dfda71a66f21afece98\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Because they can see the Government apologised on behalf of previous and current Governments a year ago\u2014genuinely, authentically, seriously; has put $775\u00A0million immediately into a budget to deal with the redress system; and has actually put a redress system that will ensure that survivors don\u2019t have to wait longer than they have been in order to get action and be able to move forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5b4eaaf4da44ff1a76c7f454b0f04a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister suspect that written supplementary questions means that no matter what his primary answer may have been, he is going to still get asked the same supplementary question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bce0b54dfd1e4bfda659e7958b5ac04e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222de0d63eda274ffc9af631e0534b18e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I would just say I\u2019m answering this question as it\u2019s been asked. I think it\u2019s a serious issue. I think it deserves serious and straight answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022063e0ae12fcc4ded86bf38d8f022443d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u2014Transport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3e4a7059054404e958be9ab3bdd4d84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003E4. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3e4a7059054404e958be9ab3bdd4d84\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Transport: What steps has the Government taken to improve productivity in our cities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u00227f4efed66a3a4bfc8e78245dcb11c0ed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f4efed66a3a4bfc8e78245dcb11c0ed\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport):\u003C/span\u003E Yesterday, the Land Transport Management (Time of Use Charging) Amendment Bill passed its third reading in Parliament, marking a major step forward in tackling congestion and improving productivity on our busiest roads. This is an initiative that\u2019s been talked about in New Zealand for years. I think the first report was back in 1994\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ecf3f10c7c2d4ae89b6145ec43de14dc\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Unblocks congestion, guys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac81a337c9f84930852d30c141a876b1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I was just about to say something nice about you, but maybe I\u2019ll\u2014[Interruption].\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226cc4280ba41d45358a23b16021485cbb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. Just\u2014don\u2019t hold back, Mr Bishop. Carry on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c83b1b2e552f4fa8af2c910847448887\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: In the spirit of generosity and bonhomie, I will say it is great to see that the legislation passed Parliament unanimously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2b6628d752549e1bf08e732ac287e2b\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What is the impact of congestion on our cities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ead9e8875c419e9638fa1f4fe25a91\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Travel times in our major cities are up to 30 percent longer than in comparable Australian cities. It\u2019s estimated that congestion in Auckland alone costs up to $2.6 billion by 2026. Sitting in traffic wastes time, it costs money, drags down productivity. Time of use charging is a common-sense tool that encourages people to travel at off-peak times or by other modes. It is fundamentally about keeping our cities moving and improving growth and productivity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fd60306fc0d432f90aff6799b7e6909\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: How do we know that time of use charging works?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c791fe5316d84fc78d2936a7667100bd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s now a raft of international evidence that time of use charging reduces travel times and improves productivity. For example, the Manhattan congestion pricing scheme in New York has delivered measurable results\u2014only started in January earlier this year. Traffic delays within the zone are down by around 25 percent, average speeds have improved, travel times have improved by about 20 to 30 percent on key corridors, and the net revenue for the programme is supporting major investment in New York public transport infrastructure. The real lesson is that we can do the same here in New Zealand. With the passage of this legislation, now we can.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232b84115eb9c4a479023dc610f63027e\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps for time of use charging in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ce8b2f7cc9f4bb9be23676140b2c50f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The legislation passed yesterday allows local authorities to partner with New Zealand Transport Agency on targeted time of use schemes. The Government has signalled that Auckland Council will be the first local authority the Government will be looking to partner with, given the importance of Auckland to the national economy. Work by council and Government officials has been under way for some months now. Finally, I do want to thank everyone who helped shape the bill during the select committee process. I think it\u2019s a good scheme, and now we need to get on with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224264d85ec4684152aa7dceea03c56b05\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: How did including the congestion charging proposal in the ACT-National coalition agreement contribute to policy development around the bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022845a8949feed4f408697f6c6f84782d9\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, including it in the coalition agreement certainly helped make it more likely it would happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022624dde82701949bf90892964270edc94\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u2014Finance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022af08954b2037453495952b479eb59b23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E5. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af08954b2037453495952b479eb59b23\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister of Finance: Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022 data-id=\u002206dc76e643244095b809d235eca338ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206dc76e643244095b809d235eca338ac\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance):\u003C/span\u003E Well, yes, and in particular I stand by my statement this morning that after yesterday\u2019s failed audition, I am glad to see Barbara Edmonds back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270b5766fb9b04ee497f51f34b792eeb1\u0022\u003EHon Members\u003C/span\u003E: Nasty!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022234881c091044aceafcf00030bb53c58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: If it weren\u2019t an Opposition question, and the Opposition\u2019s right to question the Government, that might curtail the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cddaafaaa5e34fc59b3748649313f8cb\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How will the Government\u2019s decision to cancel 33 in-progress pay equity claims help women, given that\u2014in comparison to men\u2014Pasifika women have, effectively, been working for free since 9 October, M\u0101ori women since 18 October, Asian women since 25 October, and P\u0101keh\u0101 women from 25 November?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222739fe0518664bb28a8fb0c01643b12e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government has ensured that there is a fair pay equity regime in law that allows women to raise claims of under-pay on the basis of gender discrimination, and I note that there doesn\u2019t appear to be a position from the member asking the question about whether she would, in fact, restore the old pay equity regime\u2014so, brave question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267529172c9584e6bad77f890549cc578\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Are the 18,000 women now out of work since she became the Minister of Finance seeing \u201Cthe green shoots of recovery\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ffc224a18c54e048099f4cb623a0519\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Treasury analysis makes clear that there are fewer people unemployed now than was being forecast when Labour was in power.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f159d42657be450093372ab217b8737d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: What programmes has the Government delivered to help the 21.3\u00A0percent of women who work part-time and want more work since she became the Minister of Finance? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a305bbe5d2e642989af3e6657cd3c13f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Our Government is committed to fixing the fundamentals of the economy so that more jobs can be created. Most recently, we have put in place a fast-track regime that would allow major private projects to progress at pace. For example, there is now a port development occurring at Auckland port that could\u2019ve been tied up for years, housing developments able to occur across the country\u2014all of which create thousands of jobs. That member opposed that legislation and the jobs it supports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225dec06e8b9d847bdbf5a51cad169ca1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a235c566f6e64be985835cb04174e97c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Who should Kiwi women believe: the Minister of Finance last week, that \u201Ca hard-won economic recovery now under way\u201D, or Winston Peters yesterday, that her Government has \u201Cfailed to run the economy properly\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224478b7cb554b4997b2dcf567b6816349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f8c0c2a293f4744be415dc1bbc05021\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they should obviously believe both of us, because we agree that more work needs to be done to clean up the extraordinary mess our three-party coalition inherited from the Labour-led Government. We have to work hard every day to clean it up, and I know New Zealand women are too smart to let Labour trash this economy again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d6ffb5a022f741d685c45f3f9ce1bfc3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u2014Tourism and Hospitality\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022 data-id=\u00222236e11990d344df85baedebd5f216bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E6. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222236e11990d344df85baedebd5f216bb\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Tourism and Hospitality: What recent announcement has she made on hospitality in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022 data-id=\u00223946685a0625411d894f7bc9cfdd3d94\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223946685a0625411d894f7bc9cfdd3d94\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Tourism and Hospitality):\u003C/span\u003E Last week, we announced that Michelin will be adding New Zealand to the menu for the very first time, showcasing our country\u2019s incredible culinary scene to an international audience. This marks Michelin\u2019s first ever expansion into Oceania after 125 years and is a vote of confidence in our hospitality sector. This announcement not only celebrates our talented people but it marks New Zealand as a go-to destination for international visitors. It means more visitors dining in our restaurants and enjoying all that New Zealand\u2019s hospitality has to offer, supporting small businesses, jobs, and the local economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e72b7f8ddb410db51644fe8ac7d850\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will this announcement have on the tourism and hospitality industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b029de696f842e39082db0b74eb36e0\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: This is an incredible opportunity for our hospitality and tourism industry. It will serve up some of our finest chefs and restaurateurs on the world stage. A Michelin selection will also fuel more than appetites; it will encourage more international visitors\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c435d0b23bff4e799b4d66740a3b0aa7\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Come talk to my businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b7b1dd4d00e42b4a17e457b2c05d223\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to come and experience New Zealand\u2019s unique\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e917572b158a4f8083aac0dd8f938fe3\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: They do not think this is a good idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222522753cd4d54f9b99e676321978ded6\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014food and hospitality offerings. I\u2019m really sad that members opposite, particularly from the Greens, are disparaging our fantastic hospitality sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a44d710ed4f24433b7e74f31e71f9e76\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Far from it. We\u2019re standing for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022997d1facbcc34e039bf28c75b1028fac\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t they realise how many people are employed in it, and the fact that it\u2019s growing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209a82d459b3842c7bd30a3333ff0d1dd\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: They think this is a waste of money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022147e70489aa74451ad01ad7b34ce08d1\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Tourism New Zealand cites\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238a917f6001a49ee91f4d95e0b1926ae\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Come at me, Louise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291ea310cb2594e41a047e4017fafb957\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u201487 percent of prospective visitors to New Zealand cite\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3cf5bf7358841e0ac2f0535413cf806\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Come visit my businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022522fb393b13944deb7435784214ddd7a\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014trying local cuisine as their number one interest in visiting. This means more visitors frequenting our local food and hospitality businesses, which is a real boost for local businesses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff0e194c686943b2ac33a1c201a545ca\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293dc270743b24cabb9c672f55a768c11\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. That exchange across the House is not acceptable, and if it continues through the afternoon, then\u2014on both sides of the House\u2014those participating will be leaving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbbc2a9313d943e5aaebf0602451e44b\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has she seen on this announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1e514c75a4341578114bdc38fc76544\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The feedback from the industry has been fantastic. To quote a few: Steve Logan, from Logan Brown, has said, \u201CHats off to the Government for recognising how important food is to our country.\u201D; Lisa and Simon Levy said, \u201CThe Michelin guide would put New Zealand on the world stage for culinary tourism.\u201D; and Auckland chef Josh Emett said, \u201CThere was incredible value in bringing the guide to New Zealand, and kudos for actually getting it over the line and committing to it and seeing the value in it.\u201D\u2014yes, including Auckland Central.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cce96c00c25e4548a13e0dd864ca1aa4\u0022\u003EDr Vanessa Weenink\u003C/span\u003E: How will more international visitors support economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002215080e7fbe3a4bfc9d4e668dd042447f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a772865bac1a4307844cbf22d07f8891\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: We know that the hospitality sector is a significant part of New Zealand\u2019s economy, with revenue reaching $21.4 billion for the year ended March 2025. Investing in tourism and hospitality is a recipe for growth, and with this announcement, we expect to bring in up to an additional 36,000 international visitors. Michelin\u2019s presence in New Zealand will mean more visitors dining in our restaurants and experiencing what our fantastic food producers and growers have on offer. This is good for jobs, it\u2019s good for growth, and it\u2019s good for the incomes of New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00228035b5181def4e0db7144fe816cbebaf\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u2014Children\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022 data-id=\u002284302164085b42bbb11c269be900b5b7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E7. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284302164085b42bbb11c269be900b5b7\u0022\u003ETAMATHA PAUL (Green\u2014Wellington Central)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Children: Is she reconsidering the Oranga Tamariki (Responding to Serious Youth Offending) Amendment Bill in light of the final evaluation report on the military-style academy pilot; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022 data-id=\u0022f22d0933b4f144d09a6ed6db24a6ad70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f22d0933b4f144d09a6ed6db24a6ad70\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children):\u003C/span\u003E In answer to the first part of the question: no. In answer to the second part of the question: because the recent independent evaluation report on the military-style academy (MSA) pilot showed that two-thirds of the participants reduced the frequency or seriousness of their offending in the six months after the residential phase of the pilot. Comparing the six months before the residential phase to the six months after, the pilot participants reduced their violent offending by 67 percent and had longer periods of non-offending compared to a matched cohort. I want to acknowledge these young people who have taken this opportunity to make better choices. The military-style academy pilot had a real focus on the transition back into the community, and we\u2019ve seen some good results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e38eb1e18e7491bb783e2d0c039c292\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the final evaluation report, which highlights that therapeutic interventions worked the best, and, if so, will she accept that the military element of the pilot was not even needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222417cb5e5d9f4517bb30901d763c168e\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: What I would say is that there is an approach to this that comes from multiple angles. The military part of the programme had a focus on health and physical activities, including drills, which young people responded to well, and they actually asked for more of those physical activities. The independent evaluation itself noted that the young people \u201CExpressed pride and self-respect in cleanliness, tidiness, uniforms, and well-ordered living spaces.\u201D The MSA stakeholders told the evaluation that the structure and routine was a \u201Cgood fit for rangatahi because it was absent from the lives they were living in the community when they offended.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b85e96a38c54e8e86ae3d4ee5dad5f8\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Why does the evaluation compare the boot camps with youth justice residences, when youth justice residences are underfunded and, in some cases, unsafe, instead of comparing it with community-based and evidence-based initiatives, which are proven to be more effective in reducing reoffending than the military approaches?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bef6d303205c46fe9f2d2388efeca1ad\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like to say that this Government is not running boot camps. We have piloted a military-style academy programme that had a focus on therapeutic support, mental health and wellbeing, education, wh\u0101nau contact, and a real focus on transition back into the community. There are prevention programmes such as Fast Track that have a good rate of reduction in offending, but there are still members of young people that will reoffend. We can\u2019t just stick them in the too-hard basket and allow them on the pathway to Corrections. We must intervene, and we must do something about this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227152115ff0a54c12ac4a9186ef2947e0\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept Mana Mokopuna, the independent children\u2019s monitor\u2019s findings in their monitoring report of Korowai Manaaki, a youth justice facility, that \u201CFunding restrictions and reprioritisations have impacted on the availability and quality of programming, access to resources, and specialist supports for mokopuna to rehabilitate and have their needs met\u201D, and will youth justice residences continue to be starved of resources so that she can focus on her own political experiment of boot camps?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de083a7fef5f40da9ab1ca13fb223ad9\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: What I would agree to is that what this Government inherited with the youth justice residences was absolutely disappointing. They had been ignored for far too long. These young people were stuck in the too-hard basket and ignored and allowed to go on to the pathway to Corrections with no intervention. We have put a lot of resources and support into youth justice residences, which means that these young people have a better hope now than they did in the past.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528bff81a75942df8b97f66c623c8a91\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fefd106d3fe4172a2e0caa685d7ae9c\u0022\u003ETamatha Paul\u003C/span\u003E: What will she say in the decades to come when this national apology anniversary arrives and she has to explain to future generations why she chose to continue with military-style academies and the young serious offender label despite warnings from everybody: the Children\u2019s Commissioner, the Youth Court, youth workers, social workers, forensic psychiatrists, rangatahi, and, of course, survivors themselves?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223590b041308241868a09b9ec8fda5803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002214e5e5ceb48f4fe3ae8e22a326c381a3\u0022\u003E Hon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that question alone just proves that member didn\u2019t read the whole evaluation, because there were many members of those cohorts that she just spoke to who said that this programme was good for these young people and did give them hope for the future. I am proud that we have given these young people a better chance in life and an opportunity to turn their lives around. That\u2019s what I will say in 20 years\u2019 time\u2014at least I gave a damn and tried to make a difference in their lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a324f2adc9454c4a91fdbcc016a0f0f9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u2014Infrastructure\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022 data-id=\u00223bccfc10bc074d5bbe0543b9b7d2ce21\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E8. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bccfc10bc074d5bbe0543b9b7d2ce21\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Infrastructure: Does he stand by his answer to oral question No. 8 on 6 November 2025, \u201Cthere\u2019s billions of dollars of construction jobs coming into the market over the next few years\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002240002fd16e8a43e5888e9e236298dfcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240002fd16e8a43e5888e9e236298dfcb\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister for Infrastructure):\u003C/span\u003E Yes. Between July and Christmas this year, $7 billion of central government - funded infrastructure projects have started or will soon start. Construction, for example, of the Rolleston access improvements package started in October; \u014Ctaki to north of Levin started in September; the Melling Interchange project started in September; the Brougham Street package started in August; the Ministry of Primary Industries\u2019 Plant Health and Environment Capability started in September; Defence\u2019s Burnham regional supply facility started in August; and tomorrow I turn the sod on the Hawke\u2019s Bay Expressway. Overall, the Infrastructure Commission\u2019s National Infrastructure Pipeline shows we have over 9,200 initiatives, worth $237\u00A0billion, under way or in planning across central government, local government, and the private sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227fc53c5ec3094b4187c7f3a87f6e11dd\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How many jobs have been created to date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ffe0c1ff7504624b07739ea2fcb6c67\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t have that figure to hand, and it would be difficult to work out because it will depend on each specific project. As I think I\u2019ve said to the member a couple of times now, projects take time to ramp up, so when you first start a project, you literally get on with the initial work and then over time you start building, and that\u2019s why these things take a while. At the peak of a project, there\u2019ll be thousands of people working on a job, depending on the size of the project, and then as the project finishes, things ramp down again. But the key is to get a consistent pipeline to address our infrastructure deficit, and that\u2019s what the Government\u2019s working so hard on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb2d1f779684546b66cfd9e35415ee7\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: If the Infrastructure Commission can ascertain how many jobs are created from infrastructure investment, why can\u2019t he, as the Minister responsible, specify how many of those jobs have been delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe04bdd57760439ba4546d96bf771e68\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The Infrastructure Commission\u2019s numbers that the member references are an estimate, but it\u2019s around 4,500 jobs per billion dollars of infrastructure investment. But at any given moment in any given project, there\u2019ll be a range of people working on jobs. Halfway through an infrastructure project tends to be when the majority of the jobs are created; at the start they\u2019re not there, but they ramp up. I think the member knows that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d5c8d456bf04dbbb94f4639cd7ba39e\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he promise New Zealanders thousands of jobs when he has no ability or inclination to monitor how many have actually been delivered?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022858ed4624a9a451e9d369e0c004aeaf2\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if the member thinks that $7 billion of infrastructure projects that start\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274ef05b3726649a59ab3d28d75928c55\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: You asked us the same questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022376e9f72ea3e42e8aa9ade1a963ba910\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Unlike you guys, we\u2019re actually building stuff. [Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6dc32489f34481af653907e8159c33\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough. Any further supplementaries?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224a498204a64042f68c4586c8592992d2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c2cc9318f934f4fa3aceb8a11baf315\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How can he seriously promise thousands of jobs from projects that were already funded when unemployment is rising and the construction sector has lost over 20,000 jobs across New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d303d4c0d1724e369d7911fa0a861e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022636771a2d68d4d72a9c0bcddc342b3ad\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they might have been funded, but that\u2019s different to actually starting. For example, the recladding of Middlemore Hospital was funded in 2018 but has only started in the last couple of months. Funding something seven years ago creates no jobs other than for the Treasury bureaucrats who have to administer the funding that sits there on the Crown balance sheet while no one is actually employed. To create jobs, you have to fund it, plan it, and actually deliver it, and that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022228ecb0b1bbd41aebd6ecc66ad9918d1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u2014Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022 data-id=\u002277a5de60cf3248759bc5aed6665870bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E9. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002277a5de60cf3248759bc5aed6665870bb\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga)\u003C/span\u003E to the Associate Minister of Agriculture: What recent reports has she seen on the horticulture sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022 data-id=\u00229a902240d1ee4a8fa06acde6e662a92a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a902240d1ee4a8fa06acde6e662a92a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG (Associate Minister of Agriculture):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve seen multiple reports, from the likes of United Fresh, Zespri, and the Ministry for Primary Industries, confirming New Zealand\u2019s horticulture sector is in outstanding shape, with export revenue reaching $8.8 billion in the last financial year, which is leading the primary industry\u2019s growth at 24 percent. The kiwifruit industry is, obviously, a flagship success story, with exports reaching $4 billion for the first time, and New Zealand Apples and Pears have surpassed a billion dollars, at $1.2 billion, for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a0d1d05ac274b68abc2c101c8e9c8c6\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: What has the Government done to support the horticulture industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231029fb91b7a4b58a13204bf1a2886f3\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: The Government is supporting this success by cutting unnecessary red tape, by streamlining resource management processes, and by ensuring environmental rules are workable. The industry has benefitted also from tariff removals achieved through our free-trade deals, strong global demand, and strategic partnerships.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d15187d5f9dc478abc747235557952e7\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: How is the Government supporting the sector to access new markets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d7c7efe3113145b399aa315944f233cb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: Trade is, obviously, critical to horticulture, and we have delivered on some significant wins. The New Zealand - European Union Free Trade Agreement was brought into effect months earlier than expected, removing tariffs on the likes of kiwifruit. We saw a boost in those exports by 69 percent. We\u2019ve also expanded opportunities through agreements with the UK, the United Arab Emirates, and the Gulf Cooperation Council. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205b4943e909f41028f89ff5e72128521\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Labour!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022600e9ac1e0a44427ab7db4a8ac891a10\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: These agreements, obviously, open doors to higher value markets. I would note that there is quite a difference between negotiating a deal and actually signing it and ratifying it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0c8759b37e54c2da444a9059f05f868\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, we signed it. Jesus Christ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be55789c46da460f946f04f7dd04a9ec\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a0217bc64cc4b97bf62cd9a9367bfb2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait a minute. I presume you weren\u2019t referring to me with that last comment. I can understand it if you were, but try not to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ed4ff80367341aa800906af4bd7ef5b\u0022\u003ESam Uffindell\u003C/span\u003E: What does this growth mean for regional economies and jobs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fbd1a4f910ca4f8e9f839f7c092479e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022263807244768408c99c12feef2312788\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA GRIGG\u003C/span\u003E: A strong horticulture sector delivers enormous benefits to regional New Zealand. It provides thousands of jobs, from orchard workers and packhouse staff to transport, logistics, and processing roles. Those follow-on effects are significant. Local businesses such as contractors, equipment suppliers, and service providers all benefit from the sector\u2019s growth. With revenue forecast to climb to $9.8 billion by 2029, regions like Tauranga, Bay of Plenty, Hawke\u2019s Bay, and Northland are seeing increased investment in infrastructure, skills and development, and jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be37efa1fb7741b38c988e010a7de358\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u2014Public Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022 data-id=\u00223c3e8835c6a6434f9dc54c4ac8fb0d71\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E10. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223c3e8835c6a6434f9dc54c4ac8fb0d71\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for the Public Service: Does she stand by all her statements and actions in relation to the industrial action undertaken by public sector workers on 23 October 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea62f44f77144782a4c710a02c42e4bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea62f44f77144782a4c710a02c42e4bf\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for the Public Service):\u003C/span\u003E Yes, my statements and actions were reasonable, practical, and, more importantly, accurate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022026abece74d644fc8222279c32514640\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Was her response to written parliamentary question No. 50726 (2025) accurate when she stated that the Prime Minister was informed in advance of the Public Service Commission\u2019s advertising campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236790667c2fc4303a691897e58a3f0aa\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Let me just find that one\u2014what was the number again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002255d5efb01e9b4913b6deac1238b4e0a9\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: 50726.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c85b3fce4a64259bba37d8fe11fd450\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Right, just a moment. It\u2019s a communications strategy regarding the industrial action. Was that 50726? My answer was: \u201CThe Public Service Commission\u2019s communications strategy regarding the industrial action held on 23 October 2025 was discussed with the Prime Minister and myself and our offices prior to the Commission\u2019s advertisements\u201D. It doesn\u2019t say that the Prime Minister was advised of any paid advertising. I suggest the member go back to the answer before she asks a question like she just did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa7db57766c74768aaa140294e153b93\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister incorrect when, on 3 November 2025, he denied that he had been informed in advance of that campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221980cc94379b426abf0465bb4a695855\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t have the Prime Minister\u2019s statement in front of me, and having just had to correct the member herself on the question that she just gave me, I\u2019d have to absolutely ask to see the evidence\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a08b9f1a9e043c09bee7ab59119b97f\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. My question was very simple. It was asking whether the Prime Minister\u2019s answer\u2014and I provided the exact reference\u2014was correct, and I believe that there is nothing incorrect about the way that was presented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fd846dd392d4e16b20b4a82bf5a64a3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think you\u2019re quite right. The answer to the written question was read into the answer to the question. That certainly brings that question into scope. If you want to ask that question again, so we all know what it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb792509ecc4187945988dc0fad6b46\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it would be good, and if she could give me the exact\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c7a1c91512748a187a1afc6456febc4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you don\u2019t need to comment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fba0ca765184d5eb7e81a61dbc5b05b\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: My first supplementary was: was her response to written parliamentary question No. 50726\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c756267b964b41e48b4da455684d4841\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, we\u2019re not doing that again\u2014just your second supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022833c5f94ebe9499899f558725be539f5\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Was the Prime Minister incorrect when, on 3 November 2025, he denied that he had been informed in advance of the campaign?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eea0f43ed495414ca402931051b4cedd\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Prime Minister is never incorrect as far as I can see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228041bc032dba448883eb6c7d3ff5aa42\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: How can it be correct that in her written question, she said the Prime Minister was informed, when the Prime Minister himself says he wasn\u2019t informed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9fc18dc1774112920814e57b15383e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Right, a communications strategy is not the same as a paid advertising campaign, which I was not aware of\u2014a paid advertising campaign\u2014because, unlike many other people, I don\u2019t need to pay for advertising on Facebook, because I\u2019ve got so many followers! The other thing is that a campaign in terms of a communications strategy to get the truth out when there is misinformation out there in the public is not the same as a paid advertising campaign.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222639e22a09554fb1ab4d18e5d5c78a54\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Which Government department raised a concern as to whether the advertising contravened social media guidance, and what reasons did they provide?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb2240bc68c4f03950f7e9e3ab19f6e\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m not in charge of all the many Government departments there are, but I would suggest that the member, since she has now written to the Office of the AuditorGeneral asking the Office of the Auditor-General to investigate the Public Service Commission, should maybe wait until that investigation, if there is one, is undertaken, because I don\u2019t know how many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8607509ea8b4f9587d2c2c66c20b02b\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203bf266584074ad08ea1b7d2842c5e47\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re not going to have a point of order. We\u2019re going to have the question again, and we\u2019ll see if we can get an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f3d1dd75de874970ad1895a20fc701c4\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: Which Government department raised a concern as to whether the advertising contravened social media guidance, and what reasons did they provide? The Minister might like to know that is in reference to her written answer No. 51004 (2025).\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223920858d059d4c2284f7a15aa2a55207\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: For goodness\u2019 sake. Honestly, Mr Speaker, I\u2019m coming down to the House here trying to think of all the possible questions, and I don\u2019t expect to have to then try and look for that member\u2019s\u2014so which number is it now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002252fb8bf488eb4d8bb810d717a25a64a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dadfffb743c49d4a26e6d46f34f2237\u0022\u003ECamilla Belich\u003C/span\u003E: 51004.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259c2dbe0ac9e4180a1d35e888d741ffc\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: 004?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd34191f73f4624baf9612e91dde8c2\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: This is shocking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d3535a0a5f43c197759444124eab40\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: No. The Public Service Commission, here, \u201Cadvised that one government department raised a concern as to whether the advertising contravenes social media guidance.\u201D I don\u2019t know\u2014I don\u2019t know which one it was. I\u2019ve answered the question honestly. I suggest that that member might want to do a written question or even Official Information Act request the Public Service Commission. That\u2019s the normal way of doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bea6d54c56bf43a9b5903d72d630212a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you could perhaps go and watch that question exchange again and consider the adequacy of those answers. This is a serious matter, where a member has actually prepared and asked written questions of a Minister and is seeking to get verification or elucidate those answers in the House. That is a very legitimate thing for a member to do, without the sort of abuse from the Minister, or the obfuscation from the Minister, that we\u2019ve just seen. I think that was a very good example of a member being well prepared for question time and a Minister not being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f5a2a7ce79e40b79eb83cca104bf086\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239117d15cdac43f4aefea4591bd84e93\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re not. Are you speaking to the point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022448113e8de8741b8a7d5bfbd4d79d626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249074d1281c140fe9fd317ca9edd1cc8\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, do you want me to? I\u2019m happy to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4ef2e9be0e4d1182f35e8ea78db3d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t want you to. The member will know that it\u2019s not for the Speaker to judge the quality of the answers or, for that matter, the content of the answers. We\u2019re restricted to: has the question been addressed? It was. The adequacy of the address of the question will, of course, be a matter of judgment for the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a215ff8c0c6a4f829868f8230b6280e4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u2014Resources\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002296e2b39ada204513974da2706fe77f9d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2c57f7147c9490699a51f288a394ae1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296e2b39ada204513974da2706fe77f9d\u0022\u003E11. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2c57f7147c9490699a51f288a394ae1\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Resources: What reports, if any, has he seen regarding the resources sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0a60cb5ed6d43799d3322910567cc84\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0a60cb5ed6d43799d3322910567cc84\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Resources):\u003C/span\u003E A host of reports affirming that I have won the debate in the minds of New Zealanders about the importance of mining. Common sense has prevailed in the Otago Regional Council, for as long as they remain in place, with the approval of the OceanaGold five-year extension on their mining permit. No critters will snuff out economic development there. I welcome the OceanaGold fast-track application next year for further expansion of the Macraes Mine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296e2b39ada204513974da2706fe77f9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76954d19774453ba89f41aad658acb6\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for the region?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe264ecabb9b465b9ae2a4d4c8a0a9c9\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: J-O-B-S\u2014jobs for Jones. At a time when unemployment is at a nine-year high, mining is an opportunity to ensure that employees in this area\u2014nigh on 700; an additional 200 contractors\u2014will be kept in employment. This extension is overdue. This entity is a leading contributor to the regional economy\u2014something sadly forgotten and deprecated by too many loud, shrill voices on the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296e2b39ada204513974da2706fe77f9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e0ae7798a4c4f5c9af05175a244411f\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has he seen in the resource sector?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291c20a43ca17479a8eef02b4977d5efe\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: The golden age, as I\u2019ve been heard to remark, is well and truly upon us. Siren Gold has begun its fieldwork in Marlborough. Drilling is taking place in Waitekauri, in the Hauraki area. A Westport company wants to prospect gold offshore from the West Coast; they can learn from the errors of the protesters in Taranaki in that regard. KO Gold is continuing to undertake exploration in Otago, with plans to drill in the near future. The South Island and parts of the North Island are overwhelmed with interest in mining, and with the fast track, those permits should be delivered in short order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002296e2b39ada204513974da2706fe77f9d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229b5e6639f2ee494b9eaf1dbb3140e369\u0022\u003EJenny Marcroft\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbf1dd4a13704cc9b6eb33b0f2e840db\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Burn and bust, baby!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b40bb06fc7c24c3e8af7bc69a5026230\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: Lots of money for the Australians.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f962d641f55845478846356b465a2643\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: No, calm down. There is a mineral called arsenopyrite which has been found, which might be of relevance to you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ce1840ca69b4882be8658f96a23760b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, don\u2019t make those comments\u2014particularly don\u2019t direct them at me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bae0ca10d0dc41bbbff4083c4dbee487\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, it is an actual mineral.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457a09373d3a4b468047b79ed118b330\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Think about what you just said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022528134adfa6c4ba1a72e2cdf9c07bd9e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7dfad2f077d4524a607c4b3513c05a6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: We are redeeming the prospects of regional New Zealand through mining. The approaches that have marginalised and undermined mining projects are well and truly over. Whether it\u2019s critical minerals, whether it\u2019s rare earth minerals, there is inordinate interest. The law has been changed to accelerate the allocation of permits. Men and women are being trained, and nowhere are they more sorely needed than in Taranaki. Shortly, we will be \u201Cdrill, baby, drill\u201D on the base of the Taranaki moana.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022937ed038ba404a62b9f87d61824430b5\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u2014Vocational Education\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbdb490855f848be967fb880f95b883a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E12. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbdb490855f848be967fb880f95b883a\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour)\u003C/span\u003E to the Minister for Vocational Education: How many more people aged 15 to 24, if any, are not engaged in education, employment, or training compared to September 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022 data-id=\u002216b4ebd6820045e5b9a07f95d4eca7da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002216b4ebd6820045e5b9a07f95d4eca7da\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS (Minister for Vocational Education):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve been advised by Stats\u00A0NZ that in quarter 3, 2024 there were 76,400 15- to 24-year-olds not engaged in education, employment, or training. In quarter 3, 2025 there were 86,900 15- to 24-year-olds not engaged in education, employment, or training. That is an increase of 10,500 15- to 24-year-olds not engaged in education, employment, or training in quarter 3, 2025, compared to quarter 3, 2024.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e657c8d8ee374ab0a170c3f5c75c195d\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Are there now more or fewer courses available for enrolment at New Zealand polytechnics, compared to when she took office?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e101efe0a70842fa8f7ed2cdfcd6b119\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s a decision for the New Zealand Institute of Skills and Technology or individual business units of that, as they ensure that they meet the needs of their community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4891845aeb94d06bfd936603ada0ac0\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Minister is accountable to the House for these sorts of decisions. We\u2019ve been down this road around operational responsibility, and you\u2019ve ruled in the past that Ministers should address the questions on matters such as this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022 data-id=\u00227994ae7e5368431fb45e2230fc5181cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227994ae7e5368431fb45e2230fc5181cf\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CMatters such as this\u201D is a subjective statement. The point that the Minister has just made is that these are decisions for local polytechs, where some time ago that was not the case. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa7b3e7c36f04f8983f076c3e39be393\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Is there enough provision of foundational learning opportunities so that every young person who wants to access it can?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f5a33db9bb3742c7bd28857a1eb9c2e1\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: Of course, that is quite a major issue, because we are facing a situation where many of our young people came out of compulsory schooling during the time of the previous Government, without the numeracy and literacy skills that we might expect of them, and so there is considerable catch up having to take place\u2014remedial work particularly around that level 1 and level 2 numeracy and literacy training.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf600a40082241809cb60dd63956d6b6\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister understand that fewer courses at polytechnics and young people struggling to access foundational education are a result of her reforms?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f563c9722fef468d936009386d842bb9\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that institutes of technology, polytechnics, and every other tertiary provider must ensure that what they provide is relevant to their community, to the industries in their community, and that they deliver in a way that is financially sustainable. It is a pity that not all Governments have shown that same restraint. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224335c4174e7e4debbb2baa7797fb2039\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister accept that fewer courses at polytechnics and young people struggling to access foundational education has contributed to the number of young people not in education, employment, or training being higher than any other time in eight years? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229011ebaae6074059aae6b78fb321f2a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243677f07633f400ebc1e6da0cf5a8979\u0022\u003EHon PENNY SIMMONDS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m very aware that in times of higher unemployment, young people are disproportionately impacted by that. That is why we have been so careful in terms of standing up the polytechnics again to ensure that we made strategically important provision of funding to enable polytechnics to have provision available in areas where there are high numbers of young people not in employment, education, or training (NEETs), to ensure that training that is important to provide pathways for NEETs into employment is available. That is why we made $20 million per year available for the next two years. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227076eec8fe604787a91bf5f2e3725d6a\u0022\u003EQuestions to Members\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a8d3955890fa495e9d61a1d5a2ffdb49\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u2014Environment Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E1. \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022342d3bcd0dba4eff97d31d7dcf901917\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin)\u003C/span\u003E to the Chairperson of the Environment Committee: Which Ministers or ministerial advisers, if any, did she communicate with about the submission deadline to the Fast-track Approvals Amendment Bill before the advertisement in her name opening submissions was issued?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022 data-id=\u0022b703f9b56011464a845c287c6a054102\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b703f9b56011464a845c287c6a054102\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (Chairperson of the Environment Committee):\u003C/span\u003E None. I had a conversation about the submission deadline with the clerk of the committee, as per usual practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229316079518cc43cbac0b512a589b0c3c\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: How does her statement yesterday, \u201CThe Government has been clear to the public that it expects the Fast-track Approvals Amendment Bill to be passed before the end of [this] year.\u201D, as the reason for implementing a short deadline, comply with Speakers\u2019 ruling 117/1 that the \u201Cchairperson should generally allow a minimum of six weeks. \u2026 [unless] the House [has] significantly limited the time available to a committee\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc76825935a14e849e05b78b30ec3b04\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: Look, the Government has made it clear\u2014as that member has, rightly, pointed out\u2014that it expected the bill to be passed by the end of the year. Under Standing Order 198, I opened submissions to meet the expectation of the time frame, and this was endorsed by the majority of the committee on 10 October.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dcff0d56283b49189c0f69b00c57c0ee\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, sir. There\u2019s actually two issues here, and the Standing Order that the member refers to doesn\u2019t actually relate to the first part of her response. That Standing Order relates to the chair\u2019s ability to call for submissions. Her response linking to the desire of the Government, in the absence of a clear instruction from the House, was the report back. The Standing Order does not refer to a chair\u2019s ability to determine that. This issue, where this chair made a decision in a corresponding press release on an earlier report-back, to which they were required by the House, is not covered by that Standing Order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238809f241cd1413cb8e516c1ac586330\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite correct. It would be appropriate for the select committee chair to answer that. There may be another supp.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fd5d4c7f4a74318bffc270da17939c6\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the select committee chair ignore the normal process, which is for the House to direct a select committee to report back earlier than four months, by a debatable motion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226724b177c169437f88d70d4d53e09e9c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s not a reasonable question. That\u2019s not a question for the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf95d671dced4808a4a5dcd171866793\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6deb1afd6b64227b2f676ec294d3dd9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t have further supps; it\u2019s only between the two under this particular provision. But you can seek leave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022962a7773c60c43dd8af1876fb841641f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave for a supplementary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222dabc006d87e4e1795dd8dbc2d2352ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the purpose of asking a further supplementary question. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b9d7951744240569e55387728ca5953\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022525b84768a944c9db74635ffd84129f9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you very much. Could I ask the chairperson of the committee: did she get her authority by a majority vote on the committee for the time frame she agreed to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dffc7ab601f34c2297a654259c0a9047\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD\u003C/span\u003E: On 10 October, we had a meeting whereby that Standing Order was put to the committee\u2014Standing Order 198\u2014and we passed it. So that was by majority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2b908daab514e099f5c3b4313ccd36a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, that was actually a very, very\u2014[Interruption]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a025e345589485580225027bc996017\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute\u2014points of order are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224db947ee5d204e1985efd4002fef82e6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: It was actually a very helpful supplementary question from the Rt Hon Winston Peters, asking the chair of the select committee whether she had sought the approval of the committee for the time frame that she put in the advertisement. It is clear that she didn\u2019t do that. Her own statement says that only happened after the advertisements had already been lodged. She hasn\u2019t answered the question that Winston Peters asked.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4cdcf3d16e545528f16ebb7503dbde3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I think she has. The member will be aware that it\u2019s not unusual for select committee chairs to take this course of action and for an ad to be placed to give submitters as much time within the constraints of the time period set to make a response. I don\u2019t think there\u2019s further to discuss on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221716452d388345ddab199fa82c242f63\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave to ask a question of the member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f949f4a8a8694cac9fc82cc4515cb1d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for the Hon Kieran McAnulty to ask a question of the member. Is there any objection? There appears to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcdafb1684fe4f028040e7220a16239d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Mr Speaker, this is a serious matter. The House, through the Standing Orders Committee, has agreed that where the Government seeks to report back a bill in less than four months, it requires a debate in the House. The Government can\u2019t get around that simply by a select committee chair unilaterally deciding, with no approval by the House and no approval by the committee at the time they make the decision, that they are going to truncate that process. Had the Government come to the House and said they wanted the bill reported back before Christmas, it would have had to be debated in the House. A select committee chair does not have the ability to circumvent that requirement unilaterally. This is a serious matter, because it means that a committee chair, without any authority from the House or any authority from the committee itself, has circumvented the rules of the House and infringed the rights of New Zealanders to participate in this process, and infringed the rights of the minority in the House at the same time. It is a matter, Mr Speaker, that I would suggest that you should consider and take seriously, because your job is to uphold the Standing Orders of the House, and that includes the rights of the minority, which, in this case, have been woefully inadequately overridden by the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5048a65ea6f4b4fbd258132f0b5eebe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019ll just choose to ignore the admonishing tones of what you\u2019ve just offered the House and make it clear that yesterday I spoke at the Business Committee, and, whether we like it or not, this is best described as a gap or a loophole in our Standing Orders. There is a problem with that, it is the Standing Orders Committee that will need to consider it, and I have said I will put it on the agenda for that committee to review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c3421c47b95e43b0a0c8a30392b77297\u0022\u003E\u003Cbr\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022531e5e672ed848aab73cb9b89fe3a079\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d772bd06291947148f8204c47b97249c\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022 data-id=\u002284a9682c225847d38b43c0b53015668e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284a9682c225847d38b43c0b53015668e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the House take note of miscellaneous business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003EFor too long, politics in this country has been driven by grievance and guilt. Too many politicians have tried to build New Zealand up by tearing New Zealanders down, telling us we\u2019re either villains or victims and that the only way forward is to pit one group against another. With ACT in Government, that has changed. The corrosive idea that you\u2019re not responsible for the crimes you committed last week yet are somehow to blame for what happened generations before you were born is being stripped away. We\u2019re saying what you do and where you\u2019re going is important. Look forward; learn your past, but don\u2019t live in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003ETake the new history curriculum. It will create citizens who know where they\u2019re from but also understand the world across the seas. No longer will it indoctrinate young people for political purposes. History education will be for the benefit of children, not ideology. We\u2019ve also ended the education culture wars. The scrapping of section 127 means schools will no longer be legally required to give effect to the Treaty in every subject. Boards will still be able to teach te reo, tikanga, and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori as they wish, but it should be the parents\u2019 choice, not Wellington\u2019s command. Education will once again be about achievement, not activism. Thanks to ACT\u2019s\u2014to Dr Parmjeet Parmar\u2019s\u2014advocacy, students at the University of Auckland have finally won back their right to choose. Students will no longer be forced to take compulsory Treaty papers that add nothing to their degree. It\u2019s a victory for freedom, for fairness, and for common sense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003EWe have proven that Government can solve problems without dividing people by race and resentment. David Seymour\u2019s rule of two for medicines means fewer Kiwis will have to leave the country to get treatment easily available elsewhere or suffer because they can\u2019t afford to. Brooke van Velden\u2019s fix to the Holidays Act succeeded where years of Government failed, creating a system better for both workers and businesses\u2014even welcomed by the unions. We\u2019re cracking down on organised crime, taking the money gangs make from meth and using it to fight meth addiction, stopping people from starting, and starting people to stop\u2014a welcome change from the dark days when Labour literally gave it all back to those who created the problem in the first place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003EACT has also been vindicated on some of the big calls. When ACT alone opposed the Building (Earthquake-prone Buildings) Amendment Act 2016, we said it was emotion over evidence, a triumph of populism over reason. Nine years and billions of wasted dollars later, we were proven right. The law has now been fixed, saving billions, restoring confidence, and breathing life back into our town centres. When ACT stood alone against the zero carbon Act and its unscientific methane targets, we did so because science matters more than symbolism. Now those targets have been halved, and farmers can finally breathe again. ACT stood alone for licensed firearm owners, even when every other party in this House turned their back on them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003ETime and again, this House has responded to tragedy with virtue signals. ACT responds with reason, because what New Zealand needs most in times of crisis isn\u2019t emotion; it\u2019s calm logic and courage. Inch by inch, we\u2019re seeing parties shift closer and closer to the positions ACT has always held. Just yesterday, I announced the complete rewrite of the Arms Act 1983, the most significant win for licensed firearm owners in over 40 years, while also improving public safety. The reform delivers 90 percent of what I and firearm owners fought for: easier compliance, fewer dumb rules, faster licensing, trust, and respect. I didn\u2019t get everything that I wanted. I fought hard on the registry and for a narrow sports exemption. But in MMP, if your partners won\u2019t agree, you just don\u2019t get everything across the line. What we have achieved is a law that restores fairness and common sense, and lays a strong foundation for more progress in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022698578e9b2fe41fa82a57ad5df8f7d40\u0022\u003EThrough the Regulatory Standards Bill, ACT is making sure every future law is tested for logic, for fairness, and for consequences, so never again will Kiwis pay the price for rushed, emotional lawmaking. We\u2019re making it easy to easier to employ people, to build, to invest, and to live your own life on your own terms. As other parties reluctantly shift towards ACT\u2019s long-held positions on regulation, education, farming, and\u2014I even dare say it\u2014firearms, my message to them is simple: this is just the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022 data-id=\u00227555a6d2188747c39b0657d28d960433\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227555a6d2188747c39b0657d28d960433\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. I first want to acknowledge the Day of Reflection and add my voice to the ministerial statement and the steps being taken to address and redress this very important matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003ELast night I had the privilege, with the Governor-General\u2019s company, as we acknowledged this year\u2019s Royal Society of New Zealand recipients. But before I revisit that, I want to place this in the context of what are the biggest reforms of the science sector in 30 years. What we\u2019re trying to do here is we\u2019re trying to solve how we can improve the impact of our science spend so that more New Zealanders feel tangible benefit from science and technology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EScience and technology is one of the five pillars in Going for Growth, and, carrying on the work from my colleague Minister Collins, I want to briefly describe what we\u2019ve achieved in science this year. There are five big items. First of all: consolidate the seven Crown research institutes into three public research organisations\u2014done. There is Bioeconomy Science, Earth Science, and Public Health and Forensic Science\u2014the results of that piece of work\u2014and I want to thank all of those who have been able to bring those large Crown entities into the public research organisations. It is a hard job to bring large Government entities together, and I want to put it as a proposal that this is actually a template for what that might look like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve all lived through DHBs merging into Health New Zealand\u2014that wasn\u2019t fun. We\u2019ve lived through polytechs merging into Te P\u016Bkenga. People haven\u2019t enjoyed that, either. But I\u2019d have to say the main actors in the amalgamations of these Crown research institutes have done a very good job, and I\u2019m excited by their collaboration and by their opportunities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EThe second thing was to establish a new public research institute, the National Institute of Advanced Technology\u2014done. We have done that, and we\u2019ve also made two major announcements. Robinson Research Institute has been given $70 million, with a focus on materials, metals, and superconducting magnets as the first spoke, and, of course, the artificial intelligence platform as the second.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EThe third was to establish Prime Minister\u2019s Science, Innovation, and Technology Advisory Council\u2014done, also. The advisory group are very accomplished individuals who are guiding the science sector strategy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EThe fourth was a national artificial intelligence (AI) strategy\u2014again, done. We were one of the few countries in the world not to have a national AI strategy, and now we can start developing operational imperatives around that national strategy, and, of course, Minister Collins leads the allofGovernment approach to artificial intelligence, and the two together will work hand in hand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EThe fifth and one of the last objectives is the business research and development tax incentive. The review of that was done and was well received by the sector. I believe, for every dollar from the Crown, I think there\u2019s about $1.40 of benefit, and that\u2019s being retained, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EAll of these actions will underpin economic growth, but it\u2019s also supported by science funding, including the following: $42 million for a new biodiscovery platform. This will create real opportunities, I\u2019d have to say particularly for M\u0101ori researchers who have a head start with indigenous knowledge. In those 80,000 indigenous species, of which we only scientifically describe 35,000\u2014I believe that the next new cancer drug is in that mix. I believe that the next new nutraceutical is in that mix. So I\u2019m very excited about that opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EThere is $70 million for artificial intelligence, and the sector and industry are currently responding to the request for proposal, and I\u2019m looking forward to seeing what solutions industry may have in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve mentioned $70 million for future materials and magnet superconduction through Robinson Research; $46 million for the Endeavour Fund\u2019s \u201CSmart Ideas\u201D; $183 million for Endeavour major research programmes, including $10 million for the Deep Heat project, a project that\u2019s dear to the heart of my colleague to my right, around supercritical geothermal in the Taup\u014D volcanic zone. The sum of $80 million was recently announced for Marsden funding, and last week I announced $75\u00A0million for the infectious diseases platform at Public Health and Forensic Science. Not only have we set the structure; we\u2019ve also started to put some money beside it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EAt the Royal Society awards with the Governor-General last night, some of our brightest and best were acknowledged, and I want to highlight a few of them. The Rutherford Medal went to distinguished Professor Wickliffe Abraham from the University of Otago, and he was awarded the Rutherford Medal for breakthrough advances in understanding neural mechanisms of memory. \u201CPlasticity\u201D is a word that he created. The Hutton Medal was awarded to Dr Dennis Gordon, an emeritus researcher at Earth Sciences New Zealand, for two significant bodies of work. The first was about an organism called Bryozoa, and he has described 758 new species in the genre and 34 new families. He also instigated, designed, and edited the New Zealand Inventory of Biodiversity, describing everything from bacteria to blue whales\u2014another substantial body of work, and this gentleman is retired. He is in his latter years, and he still gets excitement from science.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dfa1de23f4774eb1b02f841d89f309d4\u0022\u003EI\u2019m excited for science. I\u2019m excited for what we can do, and I agree with media\u2014science is back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022 data-id=\u00223a73f2faf69942129f5223edfc6c2515\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223a73f2faf69942129f5223edfc6c2515\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. This Government was elected on a platform of fixing the economy. It\u2019s clear, after two years of slogans, of bluster, and of blame, they have utterly failed to do so. If that speech is anything to go by, they\u2019ve now decided that their pathway back into Government is to try and bore people into submission. Instead of fixing the economy, this Government has made things worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EWe have seen unemployment going up. There are now more New Zealanders unemployed than at any time since 1994, and that has happened under this Government\u2019s watch. Far from getting people off the jobseeker benefit, we have seen significant increases in it, and New Zealanders are voting with their feet. Kiwis who can\u2019t find work here are giving up and leaving the country in record numbers. Two hundred Kiwis, every day, are giving up and permanently leaving the country under this Government\u2019s leadership. Today, what did we hear from the Government in response to that? Young New Zealanders should simply abandon the regions and move to where the jobs are. When this Government sees 78 percent more people unemployed in places like Gisborne and Hawke\u2019s Bay, Christopher Luxon says they should move to where the jobs are. Regional families, hearing that now, have just heard the Prime Minister say to their kids: give up and leave. Unfortunately for those families, those kids are giving up and leaving. They\u2019re leaving the country, and they\u2019re not intending to come back.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EWe also heard him say to 44-year-olds, where unemployment has doubled in that age cohort, that it\u2019s because they don\u2019t want to work. Those New Zealanders want jobs. They can\u2019t find them under Christopher Luxon\u2019s economy. The parents of 18- and 19-year-olds, by contrast, are being told they should work less, because this boneheaded Government have come up with a welfare policy that says to parents of 18- and 19-year-olds who are on low incomes that if they work less, their family will get more support. That requires a degree of incompetence that\u2019s hard to fathom\u2014the Government developing a welfare policy that says if you\u2019re a parent of an 18- and 19-year-old and you\u2019re already on a low income, work less and the Government will give you more money. How do they come up with that? That\u2019s just purely incompetent in a cost of living crisis, which the Government promised they were going to fix.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen food prices go up, electricity prices go up, going to the doctor go up, and businesses closing in record numbers. The liquidators are salivating in the paper, saying, \u201CIt\u2019s going get worse before it gets better.\u201D Despite what Nicola Willis and Christopher Luxon are saying about \u201Cgreen shoots\u201D and how \u201Cthe economy\u2019s turned the corner, and we\u2019re in recovery\u201D, the liquidators are saying, \u201CWe\u2019ve never been busier and, in fact, we\u2019re expecting to get even busier as businesses go to the wall under this Government\u2019s economic mismanagement.\u201D All Kiwis are feeling it. They\u2019ve seen their KiwiSaver being cut, they\u2019ve seen women\u2019s pay being cut, they\u2019ve seen jobs being cut, they\u2019ve seen health services being cut, and they\u2019ve seen education services being cut. Kiwis know that this Government, far from fixing things, are making everything worse. Who is winning, though? Landlords are winning, tobacco companies are winning, and the tech giants like Facebook and Google are winning under this Government. Everyday, working Kiwis are not winning under this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002250f5bb7d5a8746cf826d89cfc3794c78\u0022\u003EThere is an alternative. We can invest in ourselves as a country\u2014a future made in New Zealand by New Zealanders for New Zealanders. But to have that, New Zealanders need a Government that\u2019s going to back that, not a Government that\u2019s going to sell everything off, return to that failed idea that if we just hock everything off, things will somehow, miraculously, correct themselves. Instead, we need a Government that\u2019s going to invest in New Zealand\u2019s future, a Government that\u2019s going to get New Zealanders back to work, not a Government that\u2019s going to talk about productivity and talk about fixing our infrastructure and then, actually, do the opposite of those things. We need a Government that\u2019s going to build things. I remember sitting on the other side when they were saying we weren\u2019t building enough and we weren\u2019t building it fast enough. We were building a hell of a lot more than this Government\u2019s building, because they have ground everything to a halt. But don\u2019t take my word for it. Just go and ask any one of the 20,000 New Zealanders working in construction that have lost their jobs under this Government. They\u2019re not fixing anything; they are making everything worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ebcd8cb3ce0f43eeb3d56a27cc259638\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ebcd8cb3ce0f43eeb3d56a27cc259638\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, we\u2019ve had some fantastic news coming out recently, and it\u2019s about our wonderful kiwifruit sector: they are thriving. It\u2019s a good thing, because it means that our economy is getting back. We are growing and there is good news\u2014those green shoots, those blue shoots coming back into New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EWhat you get from economic growth is that you have the opportunity to support families; you have the opportunity to build new health facilities, to build new schools, to invest more in health and education, to invest more in our police and customs, and to do all of the things that New Zealanders expect us to be able to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc45d16b801a4e118684accaaaa8d9e1\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: All the things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5c377fbf22048c7af5bde02a2af1840\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL\u003C/span\u003E: More housing. More roading infrastructure. There\u2019s plenty there, Shanan, if you want to go back through my transcript. We are focused on economic growth, because it\u2019s through economic growth that we get to be able to afford the things that New Zealanders need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EWe have good news: for the second year in a row, Zespri has reported the biggest kiwifruit season in history. This is good news. This is great news. It\u2019s great news for the people of Tauranga, it\u2019s great news for the Bay of Plenty, and it\u2019s great news for New Zealand. Our primary sector is dragging New Zealand up again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EKiwifruit is our largest support sector in export, returning over $3 billion in direct payments to growers\u2014over $3 billion in direct payments. Do you know where that goes? It goes into our economy. Those people go out there\u2014those growers and those Zespri shareholders go out there and they spend it. That is fantastic. That drives economic growth. That drives jobs. It drives people down there at your cafes and at your hospitality and retail settings. It reverberates through the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EZespri is 100 percent owned by New Zealand kiwifruit growers. That is a fantastic thing. What a success story, and we should all celebrate that. The workforce employs 10,000 permanent employees. There\u2019s another 24,500 jobs over that harvesting time, that three to four months. I\u2019d like to make a special mention to those Recognised Seasonal Employer (RSE) scheme workers, who contribute enormously, with a workforce that\u2019s made up 37 percent of RSEs, and the positive impact that has on our community and back in the Pacifics, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EI want to congratulate Zespri for the great job that they\u2019ve done opening up new markets. Hopefully, India comes on board soon. I was in Vietnam a couple of months ago and I saw Zespri products on the shelves there, and it was a fantastic thing to be able to see that. We know that economy is booming. It\u2019s grown 30 percent in the past four years. It is really going well. All of that booming middle class are going to want New Zealand kiwifruit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a high-quality brand. It\u2019s being led by the markets. It\u2019s a sustainable brand. It\u2019s responding to consumer trends. They\u2019re doing a great job on managing their costs. They are the number one fruit brand across 15 core markets, reaching more than 100 million households. What a fantastic achievement. They are a highly trusted leader in health and nutrition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EThere is more work to do, and we could make it even better. I think one of the key things we need to do is upgrade the Port of Tauranga. I\u2019ve said that here many times. But many people in the industry are calling it out\u2014that the inability to provide for those berth expansions is going to restrict larger, low-emission vehicles, and low-emissions fuel production plants in the Port of Tauranga, our largest export port.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EZespri and the industry support more resourcing for the labour inspectorate, and we certainly don\u2019t want bad actors in our horticulture sector ruining it for others. I have a clear message for people out there: if you are acting improperly, we don\u2019t want you in the sector; you are a blight on the rest of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EI want to say thank you, as well, to all of the hard-working growers. I appreciate it. My wife\u2019s family is a kiwifruit family and have been since the early 1980s. How hard these people work\u2014they\u2019re working seven days a week, dawn till dusk. They go out there, and you see them, and they work incredibly hard to get ahead. They do eventually get ahead and they succeed. They are a real success story. It\u2019s been phenomenal to watch the growth of kiwifruit. Zespri is a true success story. But, ultimately, it\u2019s off the back of all of our hard-working growers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220cca8d925277422396d3d4e7837175a3\u0022\u003EThe good news for us, as I said at the start, is that all that money\u2014that $3 billion in direct payment to growers\u2014most of that will go straight through into regional economies. It will reverberate around New Zealand. We\u2019re seeing the green shoots coming up. Kiwifruit is leading the way. Other key primary sectors are leading the way. We are very, incredibly lucky to have them. Thank you to our growers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022 data-id=\u00227b8a1b3b468c4481b348cdd3053d422d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227b8a1b3b468c4481b348cdd3053d422d\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. If someone has to lie to make their point, do they really have a point? That is a question that many New Zealanders have been reflecting on as they see the desperation seep from the National Party over the last two weeks. They are trying to tell New Zealanders that three free GP visits is a bad idea and they\u2019re trying to tell New Zealanders that free cervical screening is a bad idea. How are they going about it? They know New Zealanders want free access to their GPs; they know New Zealanders need it desperately. They also know that New Zealanders need free access to cervical screening. So what do they do? They scaremonger and they make things up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen it all over the show. They have been telling people that a capital gains tax, as proposed by the Labour Party, is a tax on business. Is it? No. They\u2019ve been telling people that it is a tax on KiwiSaver. Is it? No. Why do they have to make things up to make their point? Why can\u2019t they just put forward their arguments and let it sit on their merits? Because they have no argument and it has no merits. If they come out to Kiwis and look them in the eye and say that they don\u2019t think Kiwis should get access to primary healthcare, they know they\u2019re going to lose the argument. If they told New Zealanders that the National Party doesn\u2019t think that they should have free access to cervical screening, they would lose the argument. But they\u2019re also losing the argument because Kiwis can see through a fib and they can see through this like glass, and the National Party have no leg to stand on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019ve got the finance Minister feeling the need to comment on Labour Party and Labour Party MPs\u2019 Facebook pages, things must be bad. You\u2019re the finance spokesperson, you\u2019ve made a mess of the economy, you\u2019re promising New Zealanders that you will create jobs, and that she will fix the cost of living, but she\u2019s got time to go on to Facebook and try and argue with some commenters. Things are not well over there. That is a sign of desperation, and it is a sign that they know things are not going well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s clear this up. Let\u2019s cut straight to the chase. The family home is exempt under the capital gains tax that we\u2019ve proposed. KiwiSaver, farms, shares, businesses\u2014they are also exempt. Nothing applies until after 1 July 2027. All the things that people have been saying\u2014that people\u2019s investment for their retirement is going to be taxed\u2014it is not true, they know it\u2019s not true, and they\u2019re only doing it because they know that their back\u2019s against the wall and they can see that their polling is dropping through the floor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003ESee this? [Member holds up a card] This is a promise to New Zealanders that when Labour get into Government next year, they will get three free GP visits and free cervical screening. The Labour Party\u2019s promise to New Zealand is this. The National Party\u2019s promise to New Zealand is this: a finger. When New Zealanders expect this Government to give them a say in the laws that they are passing, when New Zealanders expect the Government to be open and upfront and clear about what they\u2019re doing and follow parliamentary process and give people a chance to have a say in select committee, they give them the middle finger. When New Zealanders expect the Government to provide an answer on why unemployment\u2019s gone up and why costs have gone up and why businesses are failing and why record numbers of people are leaving the country, they get a finger pointed in every single direction except towards themselves. All they have is blame. All they have is excuses. If they really want to point a finger, go and stand in front of a mirror, because that is the only direction that their finger should be pointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022311eba0f075e448993bb59225ea956bb\u0022\u003EThey made promises that they have not kept. They have made it harder for New Zealanders, and here\u2019s the thing: New Zealanders know it. Why else would they be polling considerably lower than what they were on election night? Because there\u2019s one thing New Zealanders don\u2019t like, and that\u2019s someone misleading them and someone saying that it\u2019s someone else\u2019s fault when it\u2019s actually theirs. They don\u2019t like being misled. They don\u2019t like insincere people, and when they look across these benches, they see 63 of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u0022f74cac2505f24c6d9a256838f4e8a9d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f74cac2505f24c6d9a256838f4e8a9d4\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is regrettable and disappointing that we\u2019re seeing Te Tiriti o Waitangi under attack in our education system. It is disappointing and regrettable that we\u2019re seeing a Government that pits Te Tiriti against student outcomes, framing it as a way that you can only have one or the other. It\u2019s also important for us to think about the holistic nature of what Te Tiriti o Waitangi means within the education system. I thought I\u2019d use this opportunity to give a few examples and breakdown some tangible aspects of Te Tiriti in education.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EIf we were looking at Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014particularly if we were looking at article 2\u2014article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi serves everyone in Aotearoa but particularly addresses the cultural needs and the taonga of tangata whenua and of mana whenua. What it means for students is that it allows for students to have agency in the way that they work, for students to have flexibility in the way they work, for students to be able to know the kind of mana that they have when they are in a school environment. We are all often saying that we want to see people work smarter but not harder. But when we see students working smarter and not harder by knowing what they have to do to get to where they want to be, we pull the rug from underneath them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve seen some of the programmes, such as Creatives in Schools, that we heard from this morning at the Education and Workforce Committee\u2014that it allows a holistic view of education that not only helps with truancy, brings students in, makes students interested in what they\u2019re learning, and makes students understand what they\u2019re learning, but it also helps with things like literacy and numeracy, but that has been removed as part of the Government programme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EWhen I went to visit \u014Cp\u014Dtiki College a few weeks ago, we heard about local solutions on what it means for them in education and how they uphold and interpret Te Tiriti o Waitangi as a school. We\u2019ve seen schools with a really, really low attendance being able to tap into what the students want by looking at trade, by looking at construction\u2014where the Eastern Bay Trades Academy, for example, now has an excellent over 90\u00A0percent attendance rate, because they know what the students want. This is a school solution, not a top-down approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EArticle 3 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi talks about equality and talks about everyone being treated equally. It\u2019s hard for me to understand how they would say that removing to Te Tiriti o Waitangi is about everyone being given equal opportunity. Those people who have had the strongest outcry against the inclusion of Te Tiriti o Waitangi in our school board objectives are the same people who have stayed silent while our M\u0101ori students, our Pasifika students, and our migrant students have the highest rate of school bullying in the country. That\u2019s not equality, and it\u2019s not them addressing equality.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003ETe Tiriti should provide a baseline, united understanding of how each school should work. By removing it, we\u2019re going back to what we\u2019ve saw for the 150 years after the signing of the Te Tiriti o Waitangi, where Te Tiriti wasn\u2019t taught, when schools weren\u2019t equitable, and when schools didn\u2019t have that baseline understanding of what it means for our students. Of course, our teachers are also at the centre of this, and all they\u2019re asking for is to be heard, is to be respected, is to have a transparent process and co-create a world-leading curriculum, but we\u2019re not seeing that, particularly if Te Tiriti o Waitangi is removed under attack. The Green Party is committed to the vision and direction of Te\u00A0M\u0101taiaho as implemented in 2023, specifically placing Te Tiriti at the centre of Te M\u0101taiaho and at the centre of education in Aotearoa New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022 data-id=\u00225202ea45d8fe497bad0a9a0948683d4f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225202ea45d8fe497bad0a9a0948683d4f\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (National\u2014Tukituki):\u003C/span\u003E Supporting economic growth is so important to driving growth, jobs, and opportunity across our whole country. When you have a Government supporting infrastructure, primary industries, and tourism in the regions, we see New Zealand and Hawke\u2019s Bay, the fruit bowl of New Zealand, growing and doing well. Wow, has it been a week for Hawke\u2019s Bay this week, with substantial progress in health and infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EYesterday, I had the privilege of opening the newly upgraded radiology department at Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital alongside our amazing Minister of Health. This is a major development\u2014actually, the biggest development that we\u2019ve seen at the Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital in years. The radiology department had lost its accreditation under the Labour Government, but under our Government, we have worked hard to deliver a state-of-the-art facility delivered on budget and on time, which is the beating heart of our hospital. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EFor our community, this upgrade is not just about bricks and mortar; it\u2019s about faster diagnosis, faster treatment, and better patient care for thousands of families across Hawke\u2019s Bay. It will double scanning capacity and deliver more than 10,000 additional scans each year, ensuring that people get the care they need, when they need it. It will take some pressure off the emergency department. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003ELook, I can speak firsthand, because a few weeks ago as a mum, I got the call that no mum wants to receive from school that my little 10-year-old had fallen off the monkey bars and broken her arm. We have spent the last few weeks in and out of X-rays and surgery, which I appreciate and understand can be a very stressful time for families and patients. Speeding up the radiology process and investing in modern facilities is vital to better healthcare and patient outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003ECutting the ribbon on that radiology department at Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital is such a milestone for our community. It was so wonderful to be there yesterday with the radiology team at the Hawke\u2019s Bay Hospital, who do such a wonderful job, and see the smiles and positivity around the hospital there. They were so upbeat and they were so excited about working in this modern facility, because they know how important this is. For too long, patients have been waiting in the corridors, and now they have a modern space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EThis new infrastructure shows our Government commitment to providing better healthcare in the regions. This is on top of the already announced 28-bed inpatient unit that will be built next year and also the linear accelerator cancer treatment machine, which is going to mean so much for our Hawke\u2019s Bay families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EOur focus is on delivery in healthcare in Hawke\u2019s Bay, and this week we also are going to be delivering on infrastructure, roading that four-lane expressway that has been talked about for such a long time. This is going to stop the congestion and the delays that we\u2019re seeing across Hawke\u2019s Bay, and it shows real action by this Government. We\u2019ve got shovels on the ground, hard hats, hi-vis vests, and diggers. This is a Government of action. We are delivering, and this, of course, is going to be creating a lot of jobs across Hawke\u2019s Bay in that construction and contracting space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EOf course, this expressway is more than just a road; it\u2019s a lifeline for our exporters, our commuters, getting our product to the port\u2014you know, our amazing fruit from Hawke\u2019s Bay and our red meat, of course, which are experiencing record prices, and we\u2019re seeing global demand across the world for our products from Hawke\u2019s Bay. This road is going to be significant for Hawke\u2019s Bay in terms of getting that produce off to the market a lot faster and a lot more efficiently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003EOf course, things are looking optimistic in the regions and in Hawke\u2019s Bay in our fruit sector, because we\u2019re seeing record exports in the fruit sector\u2014driven, obviously, by kiwifruit, which we\u2019ve already heard about today, but also apples. Apples have reached over $1 billion in exports, which is an incredible achievement. We\u2019re seeing more planting, we\u2019re seeing more innovation, and we are seeing more opportunity and jobs in the region driven by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5fb1f3e142f415393b4b1a31af40cb5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5fb1f3e142f415393b4b1a31af40cb5\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Health):\u003C/span\u003E It pains me to be, yet again, here speaking in defence of this Government\u2019s commitment to getting to New Zealand\u2019s smoke-free target, but it seems, given that the Leader of the Opposition still believes that budgeting for a reduction in excise collection when people quit smoking is deemed to be a tax break, that we have to revisit this narrative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EWe have to respond to today\u2019s nonsensical headline about New Zealand\u2019s global ranking and interference by the tobacco industry. This highlights the ideological capture of a certain Radio New Zealand journalist and public health lobbyists, who don\u2019t seem to care about New Zealand\u2019s success in supporting people to stop smoking. Instead of looking at the facts\u2014our smoking rate is at 6.9\u00A0percent, one of the lowest in the world\u2014we have the Cancer Society\u2019s reckonings around hysteria and misinformation. Rather than looking critically at other countries that took the reduced access, limited supply approach, which this Government repealed, they have chosen to add more of a dark shadow over the success that New Zealand has achieved\u2014and why do this, when they know that reduced access has resulted in organised crime and illicit tobacco trade having a significantly negative impact, which is where we would have been had we not repealed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EThe report released by the Cancer Society is focused on the tobacco industry interference and clutches at straws to build an implication of corruption across Government and our staff. To be clear, the controls in place in 2023\u2014when we were ranked second in the world\u2014are exactly the same as they are now. There has been no change. Innuendo and suggestion is not fact. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003ELudicrously, the report even makes comment about the tobacco industry meeting with the Customs Service, who collect excise from the tobacco industry, and yet that is deemed to be a questionable activity. The report goes even further with an inference that individuals and companies should not even be allowed to make submissions to select committees, and so democracy in itself is now deemed to be some level of influence by the industry. The report criticises engagement with BusinessNZ and Retail NZ, and, ludicrously, anyone that works for the Taxpayers\u2019 Union or even the New Zealand Initiative is tainted. The fact is that the tobacco industry has no involvement whatsoever in our smokefree policies, and when you just focus on the report, it is expanded to impugn the reputations of other elective representatives and staff. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EI could go on about how objectively ridiculous this assessment is, but I think that the real evidence is in the countries ranked ahead of us in this report\u2014the likes of Ethiopia, Iran, Mongolia, Chad, and Myanmar. Taking one look at those countries\u2019 rankings in the Global Corruption Index tells us how irrational and unhinged this ranking is. Brunei was ranked No. 1 in 2023, and again in 2025. Apparently, one of the key aspects as to why they are ranked so high is because they don\u2019t have a domestic tobacco industry, and yet they have a 17 percent smoking rate. Those countries that apparently have less interference from the tobacco industry than us\u2014well, let\u2019s just compare them to our 6.9 percent smoking rate: Mongolia has a 28 percent smoking rate, Myanmar has a 44 percent smoking rate, and Vietnam has a 23 percent smoking rate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EAs has been the case since this Government was formed, we remain committed to actually stopping people smoking. We have an ambitious target to get to Smokefree 2025, and that requires listening to experts who understand how to reach smokers. But this report doesn\u2019t draw any comment about how many times I\u2019ve met with quit-smoking providers or how closely I\u2019ve engaged with the frontline workers\u2014no, it is just full of innuendo. Apparently, the New Zealand First manifesto aligned with comments from the tobacco industry, ignoring that it also aligns with comments and commitments from ASH. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dd8e3373a1e7446bb28d6db4e8cab8ef\u0022\u003EIf the Cancer Society and the public health lobby actually cared about stopping people smoking, which I would have thought would have been their primary concern\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022cffb4a5af7c24c9e813d255212e8e574\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cffb4a5af7c24c9e813d255212e8e574\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u002212f81e10630a42b1a3160bf950b7dfea\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212f81e10630a42b1a3160bf950b7dfea\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Te Rohe a Tokerau\u2014look north. Yes, it is time to look north. It is time to travel up State Highway 1, over the Brynderwyns, to the beauty of Northland. To help make that trip safer and faster, it is time\u2014and this Government is doing it\u2014to develop a four-lane expressway as part of our roads of national significance programme. This Government understands the importance of the roads of national significance to the regions, and it recently committed to the Northland Expressway $187 million to progress design, consenting, and route protection, with priority given to the Brynderwyn section.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EIt is time to come and enjoy all the amazing attractions in the North. From T\u0101ne Mahuta in the west, to Cape Reinga in the north, and the history and significance of Waitangi, tourism is back. It is back in Northland. Bookings are increasing. Sales have increased over the last couple of months. To quote a leading restaurateur, \u201CThe laughter is back. The vibe is back. Something that has been missing for the last five years.\u201D Great news.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EIn 2024, tourism contributed an estimated $570 million to Northland\u2019s GDP. Tourism accounted for 6,751 jobs\u2014or 8.2 percent of our regional employment. Accommodation and food services contributed 4,800-plus jobs. Under this Government, this will continue to grow. This Government has said yes to tourism. We have said yes to the international visitor levy to help grow our visitor experiences. We have said yes to a $70 million events fund to help turbocharge this sector, and the sector is responding.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EIn Northland, we aren\u2019t resting on our laurels; we are creating our own events. A great example of this was recently completed in the North, called Savour Northland. I recommend, next year, you all come along and enjoy it. It was developed and led by Northland Inc., our development agency. It was a great success. The event explored a curated programme of locally inspired dishes, special one-off events, culinary collaborations, and immersive workshops all over the North\u2014all served with our warm Northland manaakitanga and some of the best views in the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EOn Monday, we had the awards evening for this spectacular event. The evening was a celebration, starting at Charlotte\u2019s Kitchen in Paihia, then heading to Hone\u2019s Garden in Russell, before enjoying the breathtaking location that is Eagles Nest. I recommend, if you ever get the chance, go and enjoy it. It\u2019s unbelievable. We then concluded the evening at the legendary Duke of Marlborough\u2014some say that is my second home, but, no, I wouldn\u2019t care to comment. There were numerous awards. Two of my favourites involved using local produce to produce the best dish. The first was using Kaipara k\u016Bmara. The winning dish involved cooking the k\u016Bmara in a h\u0101ng\u012B; the k\u016Bmara was then turned into ice cream by mixing it with Bella Vacca jersey milk from Kawakawa, which was then put into a Yorkshire pudding base, and then we took macadamia nuts from Ruak\u0101k\u0101, and these were turned into a brittle, and this was topped with foraged watercress, which was turned into toffee gravy. It was delicious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002270ed52c2243745f285c14a2d3413a86a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c30e52518f7b411cb55f666acfcfd9ec\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Michelin star.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c647592c0ce040cd8a074cd7d2f6437b\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. The winning chef was Tama. Then there was the Haku Kingfish dish, using kingfish from the Ruak\u0101k\u0101 Kingfish Farm. This was turned into a crudo with kaffir lime sorbet, and matched with local wines. The winning chef was Tito from Charlotte\u2019s Kitchen, who is the son of Tama. So quite a competition. The signature award was for the perfect pairing, and this went to Kai Mata Restaurant in Kerikeri. Congratulations to all that participated and to the winners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003ETo reinforce all this, this Government recently announced $6.3 million to encourage the Michelin star opportunities across New Zealand. I am going to lobby hard to get one to turn up in Northland at some stage\u2014that would be great.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EEvents like this symbolise the returning growth in our economy. This Government has focused on getting inflation under control, which led to reduction in interest rates. This means, for the average Kiwi, a saving of $10,000 per year in mortgage repayments. This creates more opportunities for families to travel and enjoy what the North and the rest of New Zealand has to offer. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022603\u0022 data-id=\u00220bcd2ae8f9904352aa968d6fc6fb01a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220bcd2ae8f9904352aa968d6fc6fb01a1\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Otir\u0101, e te Whare, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou katoa. On Monday, the Minister of Housing made the announcement around Christchurch city being granted exemption from city-wide housing intensification. In some of his comments, he spoke about a fastgrowing city and that Christchurch needed more homes in the right places to keep up with the growth. It\u2019s not just Christchurch that\u2019s actually growing; it\u2019s also the sub-region. Currently, Greater Christchurch has a population of roughly 420,000 people, yet the population is expected to be around 700,000 by 2050, and, within 60 years, 1 million people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003EActual growth is faster than what is predicted. In Selwyn and Waimakariri, the growth rates are at the highest. You only have to look at aerial maps over the last decade or so to have a look at what\u2019s happening out there. Rolleston is becoming bigger and bigger, getting closer to Lincoln as that becomes bigger and bigger, getting closer to Prebbleton as that becomes bigger and bigger, getting closer to Halswell. We\u2019re becoming one massive big city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s not just the population that is growing. The number of cars on \u014Ctautahi\u2019s roads has grown by 65 percent since 2001, and we now have the distinction of having New Zealand\u2019s slowest commute. In just 10 years, there will be 32,000 more people in \u014Ctautahi alone, and with the amount of cars that will bring, it will bring the city to a halt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003ETransport and urban development need to be done together. We have seen how difficult it has been to retrofit decent public transport infrastructure into a busy Auckland city. We have the opportunity in \u014Ctautahi to get in front of that by prioritising public transport and mass rapid transit now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003ECanterbury has 13 percent of New Zealand\u2019s population and contributes 14 percent of the money into the National Land Transport Fund, yet we only get 5 percent reinvested into our region. The current Government appears to be focused mainly on really expensive motorways, and even with that obsession, the funding is unfairly skewed to the North Island. The recent announcement of $1.2\u00A0billion on road funding saw only 6 percent go to the South Island, and we\u2019ve seen benefit-to-cost ratio standards change to justify the roads of national significance. I can only imagine what that will do for cycleway infrastructure, when you look at the cycleways in Christchurch that are already at 13 to one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003EWe know that if we want to have good urban development, we need good transport investment\u2014investment that doesn\u2019t encourage people to sprawl like it does now; investment that encourages reductions in emissions, unlike building more motorways. What we have been seeing from this Government is a lack of investment in transport modes like walking, cycling, and public transport. These are the modes that will actually encourage sustainable living, less congestion, more productivity, less emissions, and better health outcomes\u2014modes that truly work in tandem with good urban development.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022603\u0022\u003EWhile Canterbury and the South Island continue to be short-changed with transport investment, New Zealand cities, towns, and communities are missing out on transport investment that encourages this type of transport choice. Roughly 50 percent of car journeys are less than 5 kilometres, yet the Government is wanting to invest over $50 billion on 17 roads that most people will not use. If the Minister of Housing wants good urban development outcomes, then the Minister of Transport himself needs to ensure that the transport investment is structured to enable modal shift instead of making sure it goes into car dependency. The Ministry of Transport\u2019s emission reduction plan called for fewer vehicle kilometres travelled, not more, but what have we seen? Just roads\u2014just roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8e303d84bc94ab3979945373a3959e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8e303d84bc94ab3979945373a3959e1\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I hope this Government has started packing, because Aotearoa has had it up to here. Aotearoa has had enough of a tone-deaf Government rushing through legislation with less than 1 percent support from submitters. Aotearoa has had enough of the anti-M\u0101ori, anti-worker rhetoric, and they\u2019ve had enough of the struggle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EThe cost of living is up, and so is unemployment. Today, in response to a question about unemployment, we heard the Prime Minister say, \u201CThis Government have ambition for young people, and we want to get them connected to training and employment.\u201D Yet here we are\u2014unemployment in Aotearoa is at a nine-year high at 5.3 percent. It\u2019s worse for M\u0101ori and Pasifika, but the worst statistic of all is that of Gisborne and Hawke\u2019s Bay, who have an astronomical increase in unemployment of 78 percent. It\u2019s a beautiful part of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, renowned for its contribution to primary industries. These are not just statistics. These represent wh\u0101nau already decimated by Cyclone Gabrielle being further decimated by the inaction of this Government. It\u2019s not young people at home on PlayStations, as this out-of-touch Government would have you believe. These are people once gainfully employed, supporting their wh\u0101nau and their local economy, now being forced to look for opportunities abroad, leaving their wh\u0101nau and their whenua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EWhen wh\u0101nau move overseas, leaving their whenua, it not only has a financial impact. It can cause an interruption to the connection future generations have with their reo, their customs, their marae, and their extended wh\u0101nau. But this Government have demonstrated that they don\u2019t care about that. Instead of fulfilling their promises and dealing with what wh\u0101nau repeatedly tell us matters to them\u2014getting ahead through their own hard mahi, having access to quality healthcare, having a roof over their heads\u2014this Government prioritises rushing through backward bills like the Education and Training Amendment Bill to remove Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EOn this side of the House, we listen, and Labour has a plan\u2014a plan for Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti, a plan for Aotearoa. Labour will back innovation, create jobs, and allow people to stay right here in Aotearoa and build a future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e0d199e944640bab9fa83320e556881\u0022\u003EGrant McCallum\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a tax plan. Tax, tax, tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6e337dcd26b43e9a45f3634583eb617\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL\u003C/span\u003E: Even in Northland, of course, Grant. We care about Northland too. Our targeted capital gains tax will boost health, with every dollar ring-fenced for your hauora, paying for three free doctors visits for everyone in Aotearoa, because health is wealth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EDon\u2019t believe the r\u016Bpahu you hear from that side, wh\u0101nau. Your wh\u0101nau home, your whenua M\u0101ori, your farm, your KiwiSaver, and your business assets will not be affected by this. Your health will. Let\u2019s get back to building an Aotearoa by us, for us; an Aotearoa where people can live where they\u2019re from, where they want to be. Let\u2019s build an Aotearoa that embraces our unique M\u0101ori identity and the greater role it will have in boosting our morale, our kotahitanga, and our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EI look forward to heading to the centre of Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti tomorrow to celebrate our reo and identity at Toit\u016B\u00A0Te Reo. Heretaunga will be alive with pride at an event that celebrates M\u0101oridom and has a massive impact on the local economy. Who would have known!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022febb739e578849e3a210140796bb246c\u0022\u003EAotearoa, if you\u2019re sick and tired of a tone-deaf Government, if you\u2019re sick and tired of anti-M\u0101ori, anti-worker rhetoric, and you\u2019re sick of the struggle, take the power into your hands. You must enrol and you must vote to make sure we have a future-looking Government, a Government that embraces all of us, our unique identity as Aotearoa\u2014everyone, manuhiri and tangata whenua alike. Enrol, vote, look forward to the future, and keep your eye on the prize, and that is ensuring that this tone-deaf, backward-looking Government is a one-term one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u00225a3b340794694791a8151704bf47ba4a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a3b340794694791a8151704bf47ba4a\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019m so pleased that I get this opportunity, which is quite rare in the greater scheme of things, to share some thoughts on the time that has just passed in the last couple of months since I last had this opportunity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to start off by saying happy Diwali to all my neighbours in Takanini, in South Auckland, in East Auckland, and all around Aotearoa New Zealand. Our Indian community and our South-east Asian communities that celebrate Diwali give so much to our beautiful country, and I\u2019m so grateful for the work that they do in enriching our land. I\u2019m so grateful that I was invited to, and enjoyed attending, the third P\u014Dkeno Diwali celebration\u2014thank you to Prince and his team\u2014the New Zealand Diwali 2025 in Barry Curtis Park, in my beautiful electorate, in Flatbush. There was also the South East Auckland Senior Citizens\u2019 Association Diwali celebration; the Kiwi Tamil Samoogam Diwali celebrations; the Auckland Tamil Association; the inaugural Annakut and Diwali celebrations right here in Wellington, with the newly opened BAPS, where the Prime Minister and other Ministers also attended; the Bihar Jharkhand Association of New Zealand, that colourful celebration only a couple of weeks ago; and not to mention New Zealand Telugu Association, as well, amongst many others. Happy Diwali, and may the festivity of this season continue to enrich your lives until the next season and beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really great that during celebrations and all types of events, I get to speak to people that are in my community. We talk about all things\u2014happy things and quite depressing things, as well. It\u2019s no secret that people are doing it tough. They\u2019re doing it really tough, and these conversations come to my ears on the doorsteps of Takanini and at events like this, as well. They\u2019re doing it tough, and my heart goes out for them. They\u2019re doing it tough, and they know that things will not turn around in the less than two years that we\u2019ve been in Government. They\u2019re doing it tough, but they\u2019re not angry at me; they\u2019re angry at the six years before we came into Government. What happened then? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EShall we have a bit of a friendly reminder about what happened in the last six years before we were given the privilege and the responsibility to take taxpayers\u2019 money into our hands and work with it carefully? Tell us about that Auckland light rail, Mr Dan Bidois. What happened there? Almost $230\u00A0million was spent, and not a metre of track was laid. Money went everywhere, except on the ground. What about three waters? Oh my goodness! A staggering, eye-watering over $1\u00A0billion was spent on something that would have taken assets away from local communities. We scrapped it because it was rubbish. What about that Auckland Harbour cycle walking bridge? Shall we get a memory about how much was spent there? Over $51\u00A0million on a bridge that actually never left the drawing room. What about that public media merger of TVNZ and RNZ? Nearly $20\u00A0million was spent on a merger that no one got to watch. What about those health reforms in the middle of a pandemic? In their infinite wisdom on the other side, they decided to thrust us into a health reform. What does that say about how they treat taxpayer money? What about the $2.75\u00A0million that was given to the Mongrel Mob so the Mongrel Mob can teach others how to avoid meth? That is the biggest oxymoron of the century.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EI am proud\u2014I am proud\u2014of the fact that there is so much going on in New Zealand and we are going to feel the tides turn very soon, because we are setting the foundations for this economic growth that we\u2019ve been working on since before we actually got into Government. I\u2019m proud of the fact that one of those is Mill Road in my beautiful electorate of Takanini. I\u2019m proud of the fact that with Family Boost, we\u2019ve expanded it so many more families in Takanini can utilise that. So much more is coming, not to mention the fast tracking of getting Costco built in the Hon Judith Collins\u2019 electorate. That\u2019s going to cause competition and bring prices down. I can\u2019t wait for this growth to continue. Here, on this side, we\u2019ve got competence, not people that waste taxpayers\u2019 money. Thank you very much.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224ef8becc65c8487ab141ade52027ebd5\u0022\u003EAuckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002226467553062d4417a826b7bdbefdc4b4\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9ce94eb0a9c4fe3a436c81ec1ee3074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9ce94eb0a9c4fe3a436c81ec1ee3074\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill be now read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege to rise today for the third reading of the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill. I have had the honour of carrying this local bill through Parliament on behalf of Auckland Council from its introduction to this final stage. Reaching the third reading and seeing this bill likely to pass is an incredible moment. This is the first legislation I have carried through Parliament, and it has been a remarkable journey working with Auckland Council and colleagues across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EKnowing this bill will soon make a real difference for Aucklanders is truly exciting, a moment I will always remember. Throughout the development of this bill, I have had the privilege of engaging with colleagues from across the House. Many members generously shared their time, offered insights, and provided constructive feedback. Your engagement has strengthened this legislation, and I sincerely thank you for your willingness to listen, discuss, and contribute to a bill that will benefit Aucklanders for generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is straightforward: to ensure that the Auckland Future Fund is governed and managed as a long-term financial investment for the benefit of current and future generations of Aucklanders, with the aim of maintaining or even increasing the real value of its capital over time. In other words, this bill is about securing a sustainable financial foundation for Auckland now and for generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EAs Auckland is the heart of New Zealand, the benefit of this fund will extend far beyond the city itself. Improvements in Auckland will generate positive impacts for other regions across the country such as Northland, Tauranga, and Hamilton as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThe Auckland Future Fund was formally launched in September 2024 and initially capitalised with the council\u2019s remaining shares in Auckland International Airport Limited. Auckland Council\u2019s longterm plan identified this fund as a key mechanism to diversify investments, protect the real value of major assets, fund services, and reduce reliance on rates. This bill formalised and strengthened this arrangement by embedding key principles of governance, investment, and distribution in statute. It ensured the fund remained a long-term financial investment and established a 75 percent supermajority first hold of the governing body for any decision to depart from the fund\u2019s core principles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThe Auckland Future Fund spreads risk across sectors, regions, and types of investment, reducing exposure to uncertainty. It represents a shift in how we think about public finance. Whether they rely solely on rates, debt, or central government funding, this fund provides a pathway to a long-term financial resilience. It gives Auckland Council a tool to invest in the city\u2019s future while shading it from short-term uncertainties and political pressures, strengthening Auckland\u2019s ability to face future challenges with confidence. The fund is expected to generate an additional $40 million per year for the council from the 2025 to 2026 financial year. This means less pressure on rates, greater financial flexibility, and a stronger buffer for the city in times of uncertainty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EIn the 2024 to 2025 financial year, the fund produced $38.4 million in distribution income, compared to just $10.2 million in dividends they would have received from retaining the airport shares. Combined, both the capital value and income mean the council is currently $100 million better off than it would have been without the fund. These are real measurable gains that demonstrate that the fund is already delivering strong financial outcome for Aucklanders. This legislation embeds credence and accountability in laws, and ensures the fund is managed carefully and wisely so it will continue to benefit Aucklanders for generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003ELooking to the future, this bill represents long-term planning and responsible financial management. It provides Auckland with a stable foundation to continue growing, investing in essential services, and meeting future challenges. It ensures the city wealth is managed wisely for the benefit of both current residents and future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge the Auckland Council, particularly Mayor Wayne Brown and Councillor Christine Fletcher, who is actually present in the House today\u2014welcome\u2014for their leadership in establishing the Auckland Future Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EThank you also to the Minister for Auckland, Simeon Brown, for his support. I am especially grateful to both Mayor Brown and Minister Simeon Brown for putting their faith in me to carry this legislation. I also wish to recognise Auckland Council Head of Governance Stu Mullin and all council and parliamentary staff who have contributed to bringing this bill to the House. I also want to acknowledge the chair and all the members of the Governance and Administration Committee, as well as all the Aucklanders who took the time to share their feedback on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EMayor Wayne Brown has asked me to pass on his sincere thanks and to read a message on his behalf: \u201CThe Auckland Future Fund is a long-term investment for Aucklanders, and this bill is the strongest protection possible to ensure the money is only ever used for what the fund was intended for: improving Auckland\u2019s financial resilience.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u201CThis is a sensible idea and an example of Wellington actually doing what Aucklanders want. The fund is already contributing far more than the airport shares it came from, and that will benefit Aucklanders in the future. I don\u2019t go to Wellington, so Dr Carlos Cheung, reading this on my behalf, is the closest I will get to being in Parliament. Thank you to all the MPs from across the House for coming together to support this bill and to Dr Carlos Cheung for sponsoring it. This is a good example of Wellington working with Auckland on a sensible idea. I look forward on this continuing.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EI also got a message from Councillor Christine Fletcher, and she asked me to pass it on to the House as well: \u201CIn suggesting the establishment of the Auckland Future Fund to the Mayor, I recognised the huge financial challenges facing Auckland and the need to do things differently if we were to succeed in increasing our own rates revenue for council, in order to meet its operation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u201CI wish to acknowledge James Colvin for his collaboration in working with me to build a business case to present to the Mayor as part of the long-term funding plan. The greatest risk I faced in developing this was to lose the trust of the public in the misuse of the funds. Therefore, I warmly welcome this strong legislative protection for the fund that will give the public confidence that this legacy will be respected now and into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u201CI wish to record my gratitude to the directors of the CCO, chair Chris Swasbrook and the members David Callanan and Greg Strobo for their careful, yes, visionary approach to the fund and testimony, and acknowledge Megan Holley and the Auckland Council staff who have worked closely with the board. I sincerely thank Carlos Cheung and all the members of the Parliament who have guided this legislation with careful stewardship through the House for Aucklanders.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, with the support of all the colleagues across the House, this important legislation will pass, providing a strong financial foundation for Aucklanders today and for generation to come. The Auckland Future Fund ensures Auckland is ready to meet the challenges ahead with confidence and care. I\u2019m looking forward to families in Mount Roskill and the wider Auckland community benefiting from this fund now and in the future. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00226c8210fbf19540ce891ee097d2ddd7c1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c8210fbf19540ce891ee097d2ddd7c1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022 data-id=\u00222387fd7cc31d4a28b7653b0cd26f05db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222387fd7cc31d4a28b7653b0cd26f05db\u0022\u003EHon CARMEL SEPULONI (Deputy Leader\u2014Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I was going to start by thanking Dr\u00A0Carlos Cheung for bringing this bill to the House, but he thanked himself\u2014twice\u2014so I\u2019m not sure that that\u2019s necessary. I do, however, think it\u2019s necessary to acknowledge and commend the hard work and creativity of Mayor Wayne Brown and Auckland Council in drafting this bill. The council has demonstrated professionalism and a strong commitment to ensuring that Auckland will have the capital funds to support the city\u2019s future, and we, of course, support that, and we also support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important to note that there was nervousness and there was criticism from some of our Auckland representatives who wanted to keep some ownership of their locality\u2019s biggest asset. As has been mentioned by Dr Carlos Cheung, this fund is primarily supported by airport share sales that will provide at least $1.31 billion to the Auckland Future Fund. It\u2019s important to note that the former Manukau City Council was very vigilant on holding on to their assets, and so you can understand why the South Auckland - based councillors feel a sense of ownership and loss with this particular asset. In saying that, at least in this instance, it has been invested in what we think is an appropriate manner. That doesn\u2019t mean that asset sales proposed by the other side of the House would necessarily be done in the same way. In fact, I doubt that they would. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002284f8db4346204b51af872b70e7282e38\u0022\u003EWhile the bill is a step forward for the city of Auckland, it does not change the fact that the Government continues to take Auckland backwards and we face several challenges in Auckland at the moment. As a result of National\u2019s economic mismanagement in Auckland, Aucklanders continue to face an unemployment rate up to 6.1 percent in the June 2020 quarter\u2014the worst of all regions. We face increasing food crisis prices, up another 5 percent on last year; new vehicle registration fees; increased public transport fees; and increasing food insecurity in the city. It is important to note that, because despite this very good idea by the Auckland Council, and the Auckland Council being able to think ahead and futureproof Auckland\u2019s future, the Government, yes, have adopted this bill and taken it forward for them alongside Dr Carlos Cheung\u2014I thank him for doing that\u2014but we have to recognise that Auckland faces so many challenges and that this Government has done very little to alleviate the pressure for Auckland City. However, it is about the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill, and I stand here today to say\u2014it feels like it\u2019s been a very long process, but I\u2019m glad that we\u2019re at the third reading and we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022 data-id=\u0022f20bfbff3bf34b4c9b74a60d55cc14de\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f20bfbff3bf34b4c9b74a60d55cc14de\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai, t\u0113n\u0101 koe. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. I just want to join with the Hon Carmel Sepuloni in congratulating Carlos Cheung for bringing this bill to the House. I had had a number of conversations with our mayor, Wayne Brown, about this intended bill when it was first being drafted up and understand why it landed with a member of the Government, given the convenience of working with the Government of the day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EI just want, firstly, to articulate for those who may be following along at home what this bill actually does, because I think it\u2019s important to note that this bill does not action the selling of assets. That has already been done. What this bill does do is set up a framework for the fund that is to be established with the revenue that is generated from the sale of those assets, with requisite guardrails around it\u2014namely, to ensure that there is a protection of the real value of Auckland Council\u2019s intergenerational assets so that they can continue to benefit future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EI think it is really important to note what this bill does and what this bill does not do\u2014that it does not sell these assets but, instead, sets up this fund and the guardrails around it\u2014because I need to be crystal clear that the Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand unequivocally opposes the sale of our public assets. I am concerned about how, potentially, at some point in the not too distant future, commentary on this piece of legislation may potentially be taken out of context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re stoked to see that the Government, and particularly the member Dr Carlos Cheung, is listening to Auckland, to T\u0101maki-makau-rau, and to local government with this plea, but what we plea to the Government is to be consistent and principled in the listening that it is citing it is doing in creating and passing this legislation today, because Aucklanders, and even actually our mayor, are crystal clear that what T\u0101maki-makau-rau Auckland needs is surface light rail. We need public transport systems that bust our congestion and that are adequately funded. We also need meaningful and real action on homelessness, which looks like providing housing for everybody who needs it. Also, we know that the majority of Aucklanders agree with the need for far faster and more serious climate action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EHowever, unfortunately, what we\u2019re hearing from this Government in response to all of these pleas, both from Aucklanders and from local governments across the country, is that what their intention is to do is to respond with a rates cap, to minimise the ability of local government to have that direct accountability to their constituencies when it comes to raising the revenue to invest in infrastructure, to invest in the likes of public transport and the likes of that climate action. Unfortunately, this bill does not touch the sides on the far broader and more significant issues that face local governments around this country, which successive Governments, actually, have commissioned reports on time and time again, to tell them exactly the same thing, but then do nothing to act upon that advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWe had, almost 15 years ago, the Shand inquiry into local government, which told us that local government does not have the revenue necessary to invest in meeting its mandate. More than that, we had the Productivity Commission review of the Shand inquiry about six or so years ago, which said exactly the same thing. Then, about a year or two ago, we had the Future for Local Government Review, which again told us that we need to resource local government if we want it to work effectively, let alone meet its democratic mandate. However, unfortunately, what we\u2019re met with right now is a ticking time bomb of the situation with local government in this country, and I here want to point to three particular things which are all deeply interrelated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EWe have seen that there has been an historical rates increase for local governments all across the country as a result of rates being made artificially low for far too long and cost pressures accumulating. That has simultaneously been met with so many of our local governments being faced with the need to make their books balance under the auspices of a Government that is not willing to do its part in the partnership of meeting the needs of our communities. So many of our local governments are also being forced to sell off assets, which means that there is less of those assets available to leverage against should our local governments like to borrow into the future. The third point is that also so many of our local governments have had their credit ratings downgraded as a result of the Government chopping and changing the plan when it comes to three waters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EAll of those three things point to a pretty bleak picture at the moment for the state of local government in this country, and I guess in my contribution what I am asking for from this Government and from all members in this House is a recognition of the fact that we are elected by precisely the same people who our locally elected representatives are. We hold the same responsibility, but we hold so much more of the budget. If I recall, off the top of my head, correctly, we are amongst the lowest in the OECD for the proportion of spending that occurs discretionarily within the local government sphere compared to the central government sphere. In the OECD, I believe, it\u2019s an average of about 30 percent, but here in Aotearoa New Zealand, it\u2019s less than half of that, at 11\u00A0percent. If people in this place want to bang their chest about localism and want to bang their chest about working in partnership with local government, we need to see that consistency and that principle carried on into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EIn a nutshell, we support this legislation today, again, because it does not sell those assets but puts in place the guardrails around how those resources are to be managed into the future. I would just like to, in speaking to the broader context in summation, point out that if we are to go down the track, as the Prime Minister has foreshadowed in his public commentary this week, of the sell-off of our public assets and the need for a supposed mature conversation, I would broaden the remit of that mature conversation to one of how we are running our economy and who we are running it for. Our country is also well overdue a mature conversation on who is carrying the tax burden and, ultimately, the kinds of investment that we can make in increasing our productive capacity and in meeting all of the rhetoric that this Government talks about when it comes to growth. In fact, if you are to measure the actions of this Government against its own rhetoric, what you see from their shredding of public investment in our public services and in our public infrastructure is actually the diminishing and the whittling away of that productive capacity and of that very growth they say they care about. This is how you go about killing the golden goose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022002041ee93e94d75a55bbf80fb803f27\u0022\u003EIn my final remarks, I just want to acknowledge and celebrate the incredible creativity and talent and innovation of Aucklanders and call upon this Government to do what it knows it actually can, which is to properly resource the infrastructure and our communities to help them to realise their potential. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u00228810f24d0f524f06a3dc7599a766ca83\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228810f24d0f524f06a3dc7599a766ca83\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. This is what Auckland Council is doing with the future fund; it deserves real credit. I want to acknowledge the former Mayor of Auckland, Christine Fletcher, who was a hero of mine as a young engineer for promoting and sponsoring fantastic infrastructure projects like the Britomart Railway station, and what has flowed from that? Incredible developments like Britomart Square and so many others. It\u2019s wonderful to see you here, Christine Fletcher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThis bill, this future fund, is courageous, it\u2019s practical, and it\u2019s a grown-up move, because the adult conversation New Zealand needs to have right now is about how we manage publicly owned assets and whether we\u2019re going to keep all of these old things in the shed or we\u2019re going to bring them out and we\u2019re going to dust them off and we\u2019re going to see if we can turn some of these old assets into better, more productive assets that actually allow our city to grow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI just want to refer to the member who\u2019s just spoken, the member for Auckland Central, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who described cost pressures facing local government. She\u2019s absolutely right. She described council\u2019s struggle to balance the books; she\u2019s absolutely right. But what she failed to mention was that after many, many years of councils raising rates or taking on debt, they failed to make the tough choices. When they\u2019ve got billions and billions of dollars\u2019 worth of assets, like Auckland Council does\u2014it\u2019s got stadiums, it\u2019s got land, it\u2019s got all kinds of things. If you can\u2019t make tough choices about which assets do we really need to keep for the benefit of our city and our people, and which assets do we really, really need to build and buy, and can we make a trade-off\u2014if you can\u2019t make those tough choices, your city just grinds to a halt. The growth happens, but ever more slowly and in an ever more costly way, pricing people out of homes and futures. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EIt means employers who want to hire people\u2014the new employees, the people applying for jobs, say, \u201CI\u2019d love to take the job, but there\u2019s nowhere I can afford to live.\u201D It means businesses who want to set up say, \u201CWell, it would only work if I could do three loads a day, but, based on traffic congestion, I can only do two.\u201D If we can\u2019t solve those problems\u2014and one of the ways we solve them is by recycling assets into new assets that we need\u2014then we\u2019re not having that tough conversation. We\u2019re enabling bad behaviour and we\u2019re limiting how, and how fast, our wonderful cities like Auckland can grow. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI applaud the council and I applaud Christine Fletcher and, of course, Dr Carlos Cheung, the sponsor of the bill, somebody who\u2019s demonstrated that he listens to the needs of Aucklanders, as I know he did when he listened to Aucklanders about the speed humps and all the ridiculous things that Auckland Transport were doing to make our lives worse but weren\u2019t saving any lives or the planet. Carlos Cheung listened to Auckland. This is a great example of that. Congratulations, Carlos. Bringing this to completion today is a great example of a local MP listening to local people and delivering a solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI just want to come back to this issue of lazy assets, because, for decades, central government and local government had both sat on lazy assets: ports, airports, buildings, all kinds of bits of land, growing gorse or barbed wire or rusting machinery. I know\u2014I\u2019ve seen it, because I worked at Auckland Council for three years in an asset management role. I saw it with my own eyes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI saw people in one part of the city saying, \u201CWe want a new dog park.\u201D, council saying, \u201CWe can build it for you, maybe a million dollars.\u201D, then other people like me saying, \u201CHey you know, if people turn up in their really flash cars with dogs worth ten thousands of dollars\u2014you know, a big pack of dogs\u2014maybe you could charge them a small fee to use this dog park?\u201D People looked at me like I was mad. But you know what, if people can afford to pay for a service, maybe we should ask them to chip in a little bit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7dad2c005ad4a1c9371776907a8b2c9\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Anti - dog park. How\u2019s that going to go in Mt Roskill, Carlos?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eabee81ad9094c2b8bf623db05f3a9c4\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: So many lazy assets. Unfortunately for some of the Labour members barracking across the Chamber, they honestly believe in fiscal unicorns\u2014that there are these money unicorns that fly around showering money on local government, any project that Rachel Brooking or Arena Williams thinks up. Maybe ratepayers or some wealthy banker\u2014I don\u2019t know\u2014maybe some oil baron is going to turn up and buy it for you. They\u2019re not. Aucklanders and Kiwis need to make tough choices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f8e39e76ef74e8e9308b5a0ec679ac8\u0022\u003ECelia Wade-Brown\u003C/span\u003E: [Standing near Table of the House] Not the oil barons, thank you very much. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db08f47a5eef40139b571e51c0732261\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not sustainable, what they\u2019re proposing\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b113878a30204b56b99ec55701535d0d\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Please don\u2019t speak while you\u2019re on your feet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d218a982ddbc4d628ee4f37fbf2ac84e\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014raising taxes, raising rates, borrowing money, and not making tough choices. The Auckland Future Fund changes that. It takes money locked up in the past and invests it in the future. Asset recycling is about adult behaviour\u2014unlocking capital from things councils don\u2019t need to own\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb6b58ed09444c7bae0a6979af35f9a3\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Paint the honesty box green, Rachel Brooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0434c384e6044e4bff95c119196bc25\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and reinvesting it where it delivers value. That\u2019s right, Cameron Luxton. Cameron Luxton, an MP from Tauranga\u2014he knows what it\u2019s like to live in a city where tough choices need to be made if you want your city to grow. That\u2019s what responsible businesses do every day. That\u2019s what families do every day. They sell one investment. They sell one investment to make a better one. Government and councils like Auckland should be no different.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThe fund is projected a $40 million dividend next year. That\u2019s not just a number; it\u2019s real relief for ratepayers and it\u2019s new money for infrastructure and services. But there\u2019s a challenge, because if Auckland really wants to deliver on its growth ambitions, if it wants to be a world-class city, it\u2019s going to have to be even more courageous and it\u2019s going to have to go further. This council is going to need, like many others around New Zealand, to take an aggressive and innovative approach to leverage this fund and the other lazy assets they have on their balance sheet, because you can\u2019t run a busy city if your balance sheet looks like a museum collection. The value of an airport or a port isn\u2019t just in owning it; it\u2019s using it to build what comes next.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EI want to talk about the Port of Auckland\u2014potentially a future opportunity for the type of asset recycling into the Auckland Future Fund that the airport was. It\u2019s great to see Auckland setting up the port to become a truly commercial and profitable business. That\u2019s setting the right direction, and if the port performs as it should\u2014efficiently, safely, profitably\u2014it could one day be a very attractive investment for private capital looking to partner with Auckland. That could be a KiwiSaver fund; it could be a local infrastructure or an international infrastructure investor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EThese things are all available to New Zealanders right now, but what we need is courageous leaders like the former Mayor of Auckland and Auckland councillor Christine Fletcher and others who see the benefit of this. You think about the amount of capital tied up in an asset like the port. Councils don\u2019t have to sell the underlying land, but what they can do is market the opportunity to run a business for a certain period of time and then use the funds that an investor is prepared to put into that to recycle into the next asset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENo one is talking about giving up the land and the future opportunities that presents. That\u2019s how we build housing, we build transport and water infrastructure without incurring endless new debt. The bigger picture\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022788eb173526c49b58f198fe403803b9b\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: Privatise everything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f754fce880347b484ad429c2004db8a\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014this is now New Zealand\u2019s conversation. I\u2019m hearing it wherever I go, even in places like Dunedin, Rachel Brooking. I know they\u2019re a long way from Wellington and civilisation, but even in Dunedin, they\u2019re asking questions: how do we pay for the things we need, like a new town landfill? How do we pay to upgrade all of these buildings that need some kind of seismic repair? What assets do we own that we could recycle into something that we really, truly, desperately need?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EWe can\u2019t keep taxing and borrowing for ever. We need to start reinvesting, and we can do that by recycling lazy assets. We can make our public balance sheets work just as hard as the people who fund them. Auckland\u2019s leading the way; the rest of the country should follow. This isn\u2019t about ideology. I want to reassure members, including the member for Auckland Central, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, who was concerned that this might lead to further discussions about asset recycling. I promise you it\u2019s not about ideology; it\u2019s about doing what\u2019s practical. It\u2019s about making the kind of choices that households and businesses make every day, that councils and Government have been insulated and isolated from for decades because they\u2019ve been able to lean on taxpayers, lean on ratepayers, take on more debt. We saw what the previous Labour Government did\u2014took on $60 billion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225947b3cbc8714141ac44056d7a73ee63\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: $66 billion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd12bba49b044b4d9b5342515d240c7c\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Sixty-six\u2014Dan Bidois corrects me\u2014during COVID. We\u2019ve got absolutely nothing for it\u2014not a hospital, not a school, not a road, not a port. Absolutely nothing. That shows you what lazy behaviour gets you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4e10efef9294d13ba773f457022dd3a\u0022\u003EHelen White\u003C/span\u003E: But we did do it; we built a whole lot of shit. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022adba68d3534648ebad45387469fcaafd\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: It gets you nothing, Helen White. That is why we need to use what we have to build what we need. That\u2019s what ACT calls \u201Cfixing what matters\u201D. I commend this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u002261d08c94591d48e2936edc892c4c57bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002261d08c94591d48e2936edc892c4c57bb\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order. I was waiting for the member to finish his contribution. Madam Speaker, we had a member come to the Table and make contributions to the debate whilst standing at the Table. I would ask for your reflections on what took place there, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00229195bc5b929140c8a12544d8823d193f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229195bc5b929140c8a12544d8823d193f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I saw what happened and I saw you intervene with a ruling and I thought the matter was dealt with at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbed59c4ae4a4cf3bee68d3a40398f95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbed59c4ae4a4cf3bee68d3a40398f95\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. I find myself somewhat unexpectedly talking on the Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill and I was feeling a little bit sheepish on that. But then Simon Court decided to wade into Dunedin issues, so now I\u2019m not going to hold back\u2014I\u2019m going to give in. I\u2019ll tell you what I think.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThe first thing I\u2019d like to say is that I join in the congratulations to Dr Carlos Cheung for bringing this bill forward. Local bills aren\u2019t that common in this Parliament, but I too have had this honour with the Gore District Council (Otama Rural Water Supply) Bill back in the 52nd Parliament. That was a bill that that was far smaller in scale than this. It was a about local water scheme where there was a stock reticulation scheme where there was a dispute about the ownership or they were trying to sort that out, and they did that through a local bill in the Parliament. I do know what a great honour it is. There are a lot of MPs in Auckland, and that you had been asked to bring this forward is a real feather in your cap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First will be supporting this bill, and in saying we are supporting the bill, what I\u2019m really saying is that we respect the decision that has been made by the democratically elected council by a 75 percent supermajority. I note that one of councillors and a former mayor, Mayor Fletcher, is here in the building\u2014of course, a former member of this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EWhat I would ask\u2014and this is an ideological divide; it absolutely is, and let\u2019s not put the blinkers on this. New Zealand First would not be selling this if we had any part in this. Auckland Airport is an absolutely gold standard, blue chip investment. It\u2019s far from rusting barbed wire and gorse. It\u2019s under a major expansion, which is probably why the dividend is pretty modest at the moment\u2014because it\u2019s in a major expansion phase. It is a really important asset not just for Auckland but for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003ESimon Court did raise the issue in Dunedin. We had exactly this issue come up recently, and Rachel Brooking would know this well. With the local lines company, Aurora, the council were looking to do exactly this, and the parsimonious southerners, the Scottish Presbyterians down there, said, \u201CNo, we\u2019re not doing this.\u201D The council tried to, and there was a local revolt, because we know what a long-term strategic asset looks like. We didn\u2019t go down that path, and we now have a $1.5 billion asset that has almost a guaranteed return as a lines company. We didn\u2019t go down that path. However, the Auckland Council has, and New Zealand First will support this bill under those criteria. This is a local democracy issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EI think one of the reasons why Dunedin didn\u2019t go down this path was because there was an underlying lack of trust\u2014that a big lump sum of money like this going back to a council would just be squandered over time. If you look at Auckland, what was the ASB, the Auckland Savings Bank? That was a local asset that now returns billions of dollars to the Australian economy, not our economy. That\u2019s what happens when you sell your assets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EBut this is a decision that has been made by Auckland Council, and bringing it here to this House is a very smart move to codify in law what the criteria are, what the guardrails are, to make sure that it isn\u2019t squandered and is used for its intended purpose so that there is some hope that wherever it\u2019s invested will be within the intent of the original decision makers and why the decision to sell the airport shares was taken. I think it\u2019s really important that we have these guardrails, so, again, I congratulate the council for being forward-looking and recognising the fact that we need to protect what is a major investment, a major lump sum of money, so that it is used appropriately and not squandered in any sorts of vanity projects that we are somewhat prone to seeing around the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022212cf7474b304d86a379dbfeb693d855\u0022\u003EThis is a smart move, and it puts at arm\u2019s length the mechanics of how this money will be invested and protected against overly zealous future councils blowing the lot. That\u2019s the New Zealand First position. I think we\u2019ve made pretty clear. It is an interesting ideological debate, but it\u2019s a bit of a phoney war at this stage. We\u2019re debating someone else\u2019s assets, but come the election, I\u2019m sure that this will be a live issue. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022 data-id=\u002297023b1df69d4cb0abd33b9be87d23ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002297023b1df69d4cb0abd33b9be87d23ca\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Now that I am safely behind this side of the wall, I can continue. I do rise to support this Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill at its third reading, but I want to draw a few challenges and contrasts. This bill was good legislative practice, both in its substance and in the way it got here. Although it\u2019s actually fairly small, fairly straightforward, it still went through the whole select committee process, and we all agreed. We on the select committee asked the Auckland Council quite a number of questions. We had submissions from other organisations\u2014not a huge number. We were able to hear every submission as a committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EThis bill is putting the proceeds from asset sales into a long-term fund. It is trusting the council to manage its own assets, and, in a way, that\u2019s almost quite patronising. But given the attacks on local government from the Government benches, I think it is still worth noting your support for this bill. At the moment, the Governance and Administration Committee is debating the extent, with the Local Government (System Improvements) Amendment Bill, to which we will let local government do anything. I think it\u2019s most unfortunate when the blame for local government rates rises is\u2014what\u2019s the word\u2014very shallow, because you take a few projects that you don\u2019t like and pretend that that\u2019s the bulk of the capital or operational spending. That is absolutely not the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EI would really urge any member of this Parliament who is interested in local government to go back to the 2019 report from the late, lamented Productivity Commission\u2014it\u2019s still there; it\u2019s on the Treasury website\u2014and have a little look at that international comparison of the responsibilities and the funding, and you will see how New Zealand depends so much on property taxes. There is very little partnership in other funding with central government. As a percentage of GDP, New Zealand\u2019s local government spending is less than 4 percent. Whereas there are many places\u2014France, Korea, Japan, and, of course, the Scandinavian countries, Poland, Spain, Germany. You wonder why their transport infrastructure, whether it\u2019s cycle ways or roads or rail, is better than ours. Sometimes it\u2019s because they spend more money on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EIn New Zealand, central government is spending over 40 percent of GDP, which is around about 10 times as much as local government, and yet, local government has got 25 percent of the public infrastructure. It is just not fair to slam local government for not being able to look after that infrastructure effectively. Forty percent of GDP might worry you, but I would say Finland, the UK, Iceland\u2014they\u2019re all well above 40 percent, and they\u2019re very good countries to have your education, health, and infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002225f41afbd3704a77be3e16ea18a99f20\u0022\u003EGiven that the previous speeches went wide about local government, thank you, Mr Speaker, for indulging that broader conversation about central government letting local government do the right thing, agreed by the local people. This bill is a glimmer of hope that parties can work together for the benefit of local government. Thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u002200e1333cb7c2462bace20967993ea26d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002200e1333cb7c2462bace20967993ea26d\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E This is turning into a really interesting Wednesday afternoon, as we delve into the depths of ideology. We\u2019ve just heard from the Greens, who said, \u201CWill the Government let local government do anything at all?\u201D Yet Celia Wade-Brown\u2019s leader, Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick, was the one standing up and saying they shouldn\u2019t have been selling the airport\u2014\u201CWe shouldn\u2019t have been selling that.\u201D\u2014trying to change what Auckland Council democratically chose to do, saying it was the golden goose. I think that party is full of dead ducks, personally, but a golden goose is what they called it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EShe celebrated the fact that we heard from all the submitters. We heard from two out of 12. One of those was the Auckland Council, you\u2019ll be shocked to hear! We heard from Dr Carlos Cheung. What a great advocate he has been for Auckland. I have no doubt\u2014no doubt\u2014that he will be here for many years as the MP for Mt Roskill, because he\u2019s such a strong advocate for his community and so well respected. I\u2019ve had the privilege of seeing that as I\u2019ve travelled around and met people from the Mount Roskill area\u2014just how well respected he is and how hard he works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EIn fact, I was on the plane with\u2014I\u2019d better not name him\u2014a former All Black the other day, and we were having a great chat about how the team were going. He said, \u201CDo you know what, something strange happened.\u201D\u2014and this relates to the bill. He said, \u201CSomething strange happened the other day. For the first time ever, someone knocked on my door, an MP.\u201D\u2014because I talked about how we go knocking on doors. I said, \u201CWhere do you live?\u201D He said, \u201CMount Roskill.\u201D I said, \u201CWas it a tall Chinese gentleman?\u201D He said, \u201CYes, it was.\u201D That just shows how hard Carlos Cheung is working for the people of Auckland, and this bill is yet one more example of the great work he\u2019s doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EOf course, we\u2019ve had New Zealand First saying they wouldn\u2019t sell anything. There\u2019s been a lot of talk about future funds recently.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228682d6827e0e49d986d3bf8a86021933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6183d63e32441b4ba415f3e8dbbd4ce\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Good talk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c64f72eb24449edbb69adcc9e23c371\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CGood talk,\u201D says someone from somewhere in the country. New Zealand First just said that we shouldn\u2019t sell anything. There\u2019ll be a future fund that we\u2019ll put assets into, but you wouldn\u2019t sell anything to get the capital to put into that fund. I\u2019m intrigued to see how that works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EEven less detail comes from the other side of the House, as they stand up and say we should take this bill and have this on a national level, a future fund for all of New Zealand, based on the Singapore model\u2014but you wouldn\u2019t sell anything; you\u2019d transfer assets into it. You wouldn\u2019t sell them, but you\u2019d grow the fund. I don\u2019t know how that works, because in the places like Singapore, where it works, you put assets in, which is what Auckland Council have done here. There\u2019s a lot of debate, and we\u2019ve heard it over the last hour. Should the airport be sold? Should the shares not be sold? It\u2019s too late; they have been sold. This decision was made. It\u2019s part of the long-term plan from last year. Auckland Council made the decision. This is about what we do with the funds now, going into an account where they can be used, they will be grown, they can be invested somewhere else. We can sell something else. That\u2019s how we\u2019re going to trade up and get more money for Auckland City.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what this is all about, and on the other side of the House, they\u2019d say, \u201CWell, you wouldn\u2019t sell anything\u201D\u2014but magically it will be growing! The Green Party was saying, \u201CWe\u2019ll just tax everyone more, borrow some more. That\u2019ll be the answer.\u201D It is absolute insanity, but I think it\u2019s important to just remind ourselves that what\u2019s not up for debate in this bill is whether you should be selling shares in Auckland Airport. Auckland Council have taken that decision. There was a democratic decision made by Auckland, by the people they have voted to represent them, and now it\u2019s about what we do with that money and how that fund is handled. Again, this is what Auckland Council have asked for. We are doing our due diligence over the legal aspects of the bill, looking at the legislation, making sure it\u2019s going to serve the correct purpose, but that decision has been made. It\u2019s really interesting to hear the ideology of the other side, who want to borrow more, want to tax more, want to somehow not sell the assets to get more value out of them. The mathematics is confusing. What we\u2019re talking about here is what we are going to do with this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EReally, it looks pretty simple when you read it. It\u2019ll be a four-page Act when it comes into force. I know this has been highlighted, but the Allan McLean fans in this House will know that there\u2019s a lot of talk about when a local bill or a private bill should come to pass. When should it just be done through a trust? Well, the \u201CTakapuna Ice Cream Bill\u201D was a really interesting one that we\u2019ve just passed through this House as well. Why can\u2019t this just be a fund? As we\u2019ve just said, the decision was made by Aucklanders about what to do with their shares. The decision has been made that they\u2019ll put it in a fund that will continually grow and be used to pay for the things that they\u2019ve consulted on in their long-term plan, the kinds of things that Aucklanders might want in the future\u2014I assume, to leave Auckland!\u2014but other things as well. Why would it need this Act of Parliament?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EOne last time\u2014this is the last time we\u2019ll have time to cover this in the House\u2014the reason is it is slightly different to something like the Allan McLean trust variation bill that we went over last year, where it was already an existing Act of Parliament and the law needed to be changed. We all remember the story of Allan McLean: leaving Scotland, coming out to Australia; gold mining; his brother\u2019s life being threatened; Fan So, the Chinese man that helped him to escape; they moved to New Zealand; he sets up a refuge for women and young girls in New Zealand\u2014the great work he did. There are a lot of fans on this side of the House for what Allan McLean has done, but the difference in this case is that there is no Act of Parliament that exists. The reason we\u2019re creating one is almost entirely for what we read in clause 11. It\u2019s about the distribution of funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EWhat they have said is, \u201CHey, you should always ensure that the total of the fund is growing each year\u2014that the balance either stays even or goes up.\u201D, but they have said there are specific requirements that you can meet if you want to spend it down. I think back to the 2011 Rugby World Cup. I was a fan of a big waterfront stadium in Auckland. That was the opportunity. Richie McCaw was always going to lead the men to victory, as he did. That was the chance, winning at home. Could we have a big waterfront stadium so we wouldn\u2019t have Helen Clark and the wokes complaining about concerts late at night? But the decision wasn\u2019t made; it was a big spend of money. But there may come a time that, with some kind of asset like that, Auckland says, \u201CThis is worth it. We\u2019re going to spend down the capital in the future fund, but it will create opportunities. It will create growth. It might create employment. It might create more tourism, more hospitality.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f50223fe779645e68d9e2da10489d7e4\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Explain what those are. Labour don\u2019t understand what they are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223613c58546a64d67ae880e3c0fa59842\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s a good point, Mr Carl Bates, MP for Whanganui\u2014great man. The reason we\u2019re going to do that is there are specific criteria, and what they have said is that there must be at least 75 percent of members on council who are entitled to vote that vote for the resolution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ENow, that 75 percent is really important, because otherwise, under normal law, it could only go up to 66 percent. To get to 75 percent, what they call the \u201Csupermajority\u201D, to make sure we\u2019re really protecting these cases, so that you can\u2019t easily tilt the numbers on council and come in and spend down the fund and just fritter it away on the kinds of pet projects that that everyone hates\u2014to protect that at 75 percent\u2014it has to be set by an Act of Parliament. We tested this in the select committee. We looked at this carefully. We looked at this closely. There isn\u2019t another way around it. That, for me, is the bit that meets the threshold to say, yes, it is worth us setting aside time in the House, the time of Parliament, of the House staff that work here, of all those that work in this House: the Clerks, the Hansard team, security guards, everyone that is part of this\u2014and we\u2019re so grateful for their help in this place. It\u2019s worth us all putting the time into this to protect it with that 75 percent supermajority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI should point out, in fairness to council\u2014because I do think they\u2019ve done their due diligence in this\u2014it is not just a 75 percent majority that we are enshrining in legislation, but also that they have to meet these grounds: that the proposed distribution, the spending of that money, will achieve a benefit for Auckland that is better for the current and future communities of Auckland than just maintaining or growing the cash. Hey, we could just grow the cash and that gets us a 5 percent return maybe next year. No, it is better for us now and into the future\u2014there\u2019s a future focus\u2014that we invest the money, that we spend the money, and that reducing the real value of the capital is the best means of achieving that benefit. In other words, have we considered another way to build the stadium? Can we do both things at the same time on two sorts of parallel railway tracks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EAlso, there has to be consultation take place explicitly in the long-term plan. You can\u2019t just come up with this idea at a council meeting and suddenly convince everyone \u201CDo you know what? Let\u2019s do that waterfront stadium. We\u2019ve got the Auckland Future Fund. We just need three-quarters of us to agree.\u201D\u2014\u201CYeah, let\u2019s do it.\u201D No, you have to actually go out, consult the public through that longterm plan process, and there will be a chance for the Auckland Council to do that in the next 18\u00A0months. There are really clear, I think, criteria that explain to us and give Aucklanders some certainty that this bill is the right option and that their future needs are being protected in terms of assets that are being sold. They can rest easy knowing they\u2019ve got MPs like Melissa Lee and Cameron Brewer and Dan Bidois and Carlos Cheung, who are in the House right now fighting for them, fighting for their future, enshrining this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EWe don\u2019t need the crazy ideas on false economics from the other side of the House, the dead ducks from the Greens, or the ideological debates. What we need to do is support Dr Carlos Cheung, MP for Mt Roskill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022 data-id=\u00221b793c453b30407b9ed79ea18bb3a219\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221b793c453b30407b9ed79ea18bb3a219\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. T\u0101maki-makau-rau, T\u0101maki Herehere, T\u0101maki Herenga Waka. The Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill, today, Labour will be supporting. It\u2019s been a long time coming, and can I acknowledge Mayor Wayne Brown; Councillor Fletcher, who is with us here today; Stuart and the team in the mayor\u2019s office who have been doing the hard yards, answering questions in the background and supporting us to get through this third reading today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EIt is a good thing, this future fund. Labour supports this bill and its provision of statutory protection for the Auckland Future Fund. It will help provide Aucklanders with the confidence they can know that it will help current and future councils to invest productively, helping to support our city to grow and to become more prosperous. The fund operates as a council-controlled organisation and regional fund under high-level direction from council but through an independent structure where the trustees board makes key decisions. This is estimated to return 7.24 percent per annum over the long term, with 5.24 percent return to council as an annual cash distribution, and the rest protecting the real value of the fund. It is approximately $60 million to $70 million per year returned to the council from 202526. That is money invested in Aucklanders; that is real money, real returns, and real investment in our greatest city in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002244281fd7fc7b4e9dbceb6025f4551f2b\u0022\u003EI do acknowledge the further investment that is required back in Auckland, back in transport, back in infrastructure that has been cut under this Government. But for today, we will celebrate that this bill is going through, that it\u2019s an achievement of Mayor Wayne Brown and of all of our councillors here that have done work on this today. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1e779414c34545804e2db148d3d7db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1e779414c34545804e2db148d3d7db\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote):\u003C/span\u003E It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and contribute to this debate about three very important topics that are near and dear to my heart: Auckland, the future, and funds. It\u2019s great to be here. It\u2019s a great day for Mount Roskill. I would like to start out by acknowledging the hard-working member from Mt Roskill, Dr Carlos Cheung, an outstanding member. It\u2019s a great day for Mount Roskill, as it is for Auckland. Christine Fletcher, it\u2019s great to see you here; congratulations on your re-election and thank you for your leadership in this matter. Thank you to the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014hard-working. You\u2019ve had some big topics this Parliament, and I appreciate your contribution. Thank you to the council team\u2014Stu Mullin, a guy that would always say there are no votes in the electorate office. I treated that to mean \u201Calways be out and about in your own community\u201D. Thank you to Stuart for his constant advice and wisdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EAuckland is a great city. It is the greatest city, in my view, in this country, and I\u2019ve lived all around the world. I\u2019ve lived in Paris, Kuala Lumpur, I\u2019ve lived in San Francisco, I\u2019ve lived\u2014I need to check my notes, because I don\u2019t know where else I\u2019ve lived. I\u2019ve lived in Kuala Lumpur, and I must say, Auckland is the best city, by far, that I\u2019ve lived in, and I\u2019m not putting other cities down, but it is the only city that I\u2019d want to live in in New Zealand. From the wonderful run along the Tamaki Bay Drive to the mountain ranges in the Waitakere hills, to the wonderful old splendour of the Chelsea Sugar Factory, it is a great city.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s got some really big challenges in the future, as we know. Those challenges are around water infrastructure; transport, and that includes roads and other public transport; and ports. We\u2019ve got some massive infrastructure challenges in this city so that it maintains its standing as a wonderful place to live, grow, and raise a family. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s often said the regions are the backbone in New Zealand, and I would agree with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022538e610cc41748c48a2499afea5c48fc\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: They are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022200f36a186d442efbfe25bd8eb5a2602\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: But increasingly\u2014they are, as Carl Bates, member for Whanganui, said\u2014with the demographics change in New Zealand, Auckland is going to be the backbone of the country in the future. It is essential that we have the finance and funding capabilities to make sure that this city thrives into the future. This is what this bill is about. It is a part of the funding solution for Auckland\u2019s future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003ELet me turn to the purpose, which is about making sure that this fund lives in perpetuity for future Aucklanders, for years to come\u2014Aucklanders, hopefully, like my son, your kids, kids across the House, and their grandkids as well. This fund is all about maximising the return that can then fund the infrastructure needs for the future. This is an independent fund. We have a 75\u00A0percent threshold for distribution, and that is, I think, and as Carlos Cheung thinks as well, a high enough threshold to ensure that that fund continues to grow and that it is only needed when there is near unanimous views across our Auckland Council Chamber.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EJust in terms of the bill, I have read it. It isn\u2019t a big lengthy bill, and I know members here have read it, because it isn\u2019t that lengthy, but sometimes good things come in small packages. It really talks to the governance and management arrangements for this bill, the investment structure, and the distribution structure as well. Again, part of the solution is this bill, but I want to now turn to other parts that will help fund Auckland\u2019s future. Our Minister, Simon Watts, is working hard around this Government\u2019s rate cap policy; we look forward to announcing that very, very soon. We have also been very clear to councils up and down this country: get back to the basics, focus on the basics. And what is that? It\u2019s core infrastructure, core services that every New Zealander, every Aucklander, every ratepayer deserves and expects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EWe just passed in this House, a bill yesterday, the time of use charging bill, that allows a further funding option for councils to be able to fund public transport and other infrastructure needs. It passed with unanimous support, and I certainly look forward to helping to roll this out in years to come. It will be a bumpy road, but it is part of the funding solution for the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve also got regional deals, which are part of this Government\u2019s strategy around making sure that we partner with councils. I, certainly, want to acknowledge Wayne Brown, the mayor, firstly for his re-election\u2014very strong re-election result\u2014but secondly for his willingness to engage with this Government on a regional deal to make sure that we partner with them where they need it. We\u2019ve heard the mayor\u2019s calls loud and clear. We want to stick to our knitting and let council actually get on with it as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EBut we can\u2019t have this debate without actually turning to the area and topic of asset recycling. Our Prime Minister has made it clear that on this side of the House\u2014well, most of this side of the House\u2014we should have a grown-up, honest conversation about the assets that we have and what is the best use of those assets. I come from an economics profession, which is a bit dry and boring, but, essentially, the key theme in economics that comes up is: who is the best organisation to get the best outcomes for those assets? If you can convince me that, actually, it\u2019s the Government ownership or local council ownership, then fair enough. But I think for New Zealanders up and down this country, they would say, \u201CWell, actually, it doesn\u2019t make sense for Governments or councils to own certain assets.\u201D The council made this decision as they started to sell down their assets and shares in Auckland Airport.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003EI think that it\u2019s high time that we as a Parliament have that same conversation, because the fact is, we\u2019re talking about the future. The future we need to talk about is the level of debt that this country has endured and has accumulated, largely due to the $66 billion that that Opposition spent in the last six years. They are funds that, sadly, our kids, our grandkids are going to be saddled with unless we have a serious conversation about how to get that debt down. Most of the people on the other side probably haven\u2019t learnt that we are paying $8.8 billion, this year alone, on our interest bill. That\u2019s 5\u00A0percent. Look, we need, I think, a serious conversation. This side is certainly up for that, and this bill is good.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003ECan I just wrap up and say this is a wonderful bill. It does, I think, go some way to addressing the infrastructure and funding needs\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df23ed9a7102406f9899558fb3841582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022616a01f624ae4c079282bc3107291200\u0022\u003EDr Carlos Cheung\u003C/span\u003E: Funding model.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272ca326de3804f5e98dccb9003ac9cbb\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014the funding model, as Carlos Cheung just reminded me\u2014for the future. I want to commend those who have been part of this process. It takes a lot to bring a bill like this to Parliament. Thank you to the member for sponsoring. Thank you to, again, those from council and those who have been part of this process. I welcome this bill\u2019s passing and I look forward to the day when we can start to see the benefits of compound interest and the benefits of the rate of return that will actually give a fantastic option for councils up and down this country. I know this model was actually started in Taranaki; they were the first mover with this fund. We are the second mover, as Auckland, and I look forward to, potentially, other councils right up and down this country doing similar things so that we all can have a better, brighter future in this country. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f92c075ae4cb4c2baa7a05eeb98a49d7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f92c075ae4cb4c2baa7a05eeb98a49d7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022 data-id=\u00221037fb9802bb49ddb65b6fe9e96cdab2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221037fb9802bb49ddb65b6fe9e96cdab2\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, I want to acknowledge Councillor Fletcher. It\u2019s lovely to see her here in the House today, because she, obviously, started her political career here. I get to work with Christine Fletcher in my electorate, and it\u2019s a very collaborative and successful relationship. Congratulations to Christine Fletcher for being part of actually building this solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EThis solution came out of a very angsty discussion about the airport shares and whether they would be sold. What has been built is a solution which has received support from the council and the representatives and, I believe, from the public. It\u2019s a solution that addresses those fears\u2014that by selling something that was an asset that was treasured by a community and built up by a community, it\u2019s going to remain within that community and benefit it in the long term. It is a long-term fund, and there have been mechanisms built in, guardrails built in, which mean that it should be a safe place, and it should be something that actually endures into the future. I think that\u2019s a fantastic part of what we\u2019re doing here today. I think those are very real fears that people have about asset sales, for very good reasons. We had a history of asset sales in the past that have been problematic, to say the least, and we\u2019ll be talking about those, no doubt, as we go into the next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about how this is not a get out of jail free card for the Government, because Auckland is intensifying. Auckland, in my area in particular, is getting a lot more housing, and it\u2019s getting it because it will make the Auckland economy more productive. It will bring a whole lot of productivity into the whole of New Zealand, if we do that well. If we do it badly, it will be very difficult for the people of Auckland. It is really important that this Government support the infrastructure needs of a growing Auckland, because the taxpayers\u2019 dollars come from Auckland, and it needs to be adequately supported. Alongside those intensifications that are going on, we\u2019re going to need to make sure we have decent stormwater.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EI reject the suggestion of the other member, Dan Bidois, that there\u2019s a need to make sure we\u2019re just doing the basics, because what are the basics? The basics also include building very good community. It\u2019s really important that those communities are happy places, where my grandkids and my kids can thrive. Those are really important things. I don\u2019t believe that we should restrict what our local councils do. I actually think it\u2019s really important that we respect those local councils to do the job that they\u2019ve got to do closer to the ground. It is very important that they are adequately resourced to do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223c5c789f523a4f6e999737053b828e66\u0022\u003EThis fund is a good start, because it\u2019s hard out there, and it\u2019s hard for people to pay their rates. This will take the edge off. But it\u2019s also important that the Government, as it brings in policies that mean there\u2019s going to be more houses in an area like mine, actually steps up and make sure that the rail works, that the public transport is done, that we do have good stormwater, because otherwise the place will flood. All of those things are important. It\u2019s important that it respects the job of the council to make sure that we have a decent community in place, not just one that is haphazard. It needs designing and building, and the best people to do that are the Auckland Council. Thank you. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4380f5bb62d49c9a975960cc2718bcf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4380f5bb62d49c9a975960cc2718bcf\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour):\u003C/span\u003E Mr Speaker, thank you so much. It gives me great pleasure to speak in the third and final reading of this Auckland Council (Auckland Future Fund) Bill. I want to commend its sponsor, Dr Carlos Cheung, and all the work that you have done in getting this through\u2014it\u2019s been incredible\u2014and all the work that you do as the MP for Mt Roskill. If there\u2019s any particular group that wants you re-elected more than the National Party, it\u2019s the Labour Party. The Labour Party wants you re-elected more than the National Party\u2014it\u2019s unbelievable\u2014because the other option\u2019s not so good. I digress, but Auckland is under huge pressure, and this is timely. Auckland is currently growing at about 50,000 people per year, and Statistics New Zealand say it could reach 2 million people by the end of the decade.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI want to reinforce that this is the Government for Auckland\u2014this is the Government for Auckland. How do we know that? Well, we know that when you look at the SkyCity convention centre\u2014the keys have been handed over, and the opening will be next year. We know when you look at the City Rail Link, and the fact that John Key pulled the lever on that, and it will be Christopher Luxon who cuts the ribbon on that. We know when you look at the Land Transport Management (Time of Use Charging) Amendment Bill that also got unanimous support in the House\u2014something that the Auckland Chamber of Commerce and the Employers and Manufacturers Association have been calling for, for a number of years: congestion charging. Also, when you look at the Hauraki Gulf Marine Protection Act that we passed last month, there are 19 new protection areas\u2014the most protection for the Hauraki Gulf ever. I also want to acknowledge, like others have, Christine Fletcher. She has been a big leader in the Hauraki Gulf, and, of course, she being a former MP and one of the architects here of the Auckland Future Fund\u2014so I want to acknowledge Christine in being a brainchild of this Auckland Future Fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EIsn\u2019t it interesting, as far as asset recycling goes, we get unanimous support? If you call it asset recycling\u2014I think it\u2019s the word \u201Crecycling\u201D\u2014the Greens are on board. You can see what we\u2019re saying there. I would like to think that, as others have said, we can have a grown-up conversation about asset recycling. What a brilliant idea to put it in a perpetual fund\u2014that $1.3 billion of the last shareholding of Auckland Airport, with a special dividend from the Port of Auckland\u2014put it in a special, perpetual fund.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EI\u2019d also like to see more public-private partnerships (PPPs) pertaining to Auckland. As well as congestion charging and the likes and perpetual asset funds, I\u2019d like to see more PPPs. Let me give you the best example of a PPP in Auckland, to say that they can be beyond the roading infrastructure, and that is Spark Arena\u2014the 12,000-person indoor arena which is Spark Arena. In 2004, when that deal was done, when an events company went into lease with Ng\u0101ti Wh\u0101tua, the Auckland Council paid $68 million. That events company has it for 40 years, and, guess what, we\u2019re into the second half\u2014we\u2019re into about 19 years. At the end, in about 2044\u2014in 19 years\u2019 time\u2014Spark Arena will get handed back to the Auckland ratepayer for zero.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221b25fe0aaf4a441c89618f1fa196cd1e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d637eb1b554407695d1dbcf80076d72\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Wow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cbbe5ba718e2490aa8aa9c25143c49f7\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER\u003C/span\u003E: They are the kinds of public-private partnerships that I want to see more of, Dan Bidois\u2014and, guess what, the teenagers that go there to listen to Tay Tay or whoever, they\u2019re not interested in who owns the arena. Public-private partnerships have to be part of the future for Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224b2f5c45d42a433893ae6677b9a7307d\u0022\u003EThis is a great day\u2014it is a great day for Mount Roskill. Again, I commend the sponsor of this, Carlos Cheung, on the fabulous job that you\u2019ve done. I commend the Auckland Council. I congratulate Mayor Wayne Brown on his 100,000-plus majority. I congratulate those councillors and local board members that got re-elected. We look forward to working with them. We are continuing to support Auckland, and this is only just the beginning. The best is yet to come. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u0022133ebd79dac94077bf86533455b4c5b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022133ebd79dac94077bf86533455b4c5b5\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a real joy to be able to speak on this important bill for Auckland. I asked for a call on this because this is an important one for the many people who have worked on it, not in the least Dr Carlos Cheung. Can I congratulate you on having this bill in your name, working it through the parliamentary process with a number of Auckland leaders. It has been a real pleasure to be able to see this come together, not only with Government support but support from across the House. You have done a great job there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge\u2014like many have\u2014Mayor Wayne Brown. It takes tenacity to get something like this over the line with Aucklanders, who care about their assets and about the way that the council manages this; he has done that. To his deputy mayor, Desley Simpson: she is an incredibly hard-working deputy mayor. As a team, they are the engineer and the Energizer Bunny. Aucklanders are so well served by this dynamic vision that they have managed to bring to this term and council. I want to really make sure that people understand just how much work this has taken to be able to land this in a way that Aucklanders understand and broadly support. It is just another reminder of how important locally elected people are to something long term. This has been an idea that has floated around for a long time. But it takes leadership to be able to land something like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003ECan I also acknowledge the former Mayor of Auckland Christine Fletcher, who is in the House with us today. You know, it is important that people like this are around to see these ideas come to fruition. She has been an advocate and champion for Auckland\u2019s assets not only in her time as the Mayor of Auckland but also within the Cabinet of a National Government. It is so important that these ideas that have come to fruition today are supported not only by current Aucklanders and current Auckland representatives but also by those people who occupy this place, in our collective, public discussion in Auckland about what is important to the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the founding trustees of the Auckland Future Fund, particularly Chris Swasbrook and his experienced colleagues, for guiding the fund through this first phase. It would have been difficult, again, to build public support for this, and then to show value around that fund, and they have done that well. I want to, also, add my congratulations to the Auckland Council staff, particularly Phil Wilson. He\u2019s a celebrated Manurewa boy. We are proud of our Manurewa locals who do well, and he has won a celebrated career in council governance and leadership over decades, and this is one of many achievements that he can be proud of, to have contributed so much to Auckland. Obviously, to my very clever husband, Max Hardy, who has also had a good role in this, and we are proud of him as a family. Also, to the mayor\u2019s office team, there have been a number of accolades. To our favourite, Stuey Mullin, the all-star in that office, but can I also make my acknowledgments to Jazz, to Luke, and now to Tamsyn, taking up the reins. Good on you guys; let\u2019s keep going with this vision for Auckland which needs to be driven not only by the political staff but by the Auckland Council, who are tasked with doing this important work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to acknowledge those councillors who have carefully worked through the issues at play here alongside the constituents. This wasn\u2019t an easy one for all councillors. Councillors Henderson, Fairey, and Hills\u2014who I very, very much admire\u2014laboured over these decisions, and I know met with many of their constituents about how they would make this sort of decision. Then, for them, they all gave very considered comments. I particularly want to acknowledge Councillor Henderson for what I found to be a very moving speech on this, about the importance of the future of Auckland to him and his children. They have obviously worked through these issues very carefully, and I want to acknowledge them as supporters of this for a longer-term vision of growing assets in Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EBut I also want to acknowledge, very much, my local councillors, Councillors Filipaina and Fuli, for whom this was a difficult decision, because they had had personal experience of the way the Manukau City Council, and its amalgamation into the super-city, had contributed significant assets, particularly the Auckland Airport. From their perspective, it was so important to make sure that these assets\u2014that were contributed by South Aucklanders and grown up over time by South Aucklanders contributing not only to their rates but to local community work that had enabled the council to hang on to that strategic asset, then into the super-city. The argument was that fairness matters here, and I agree with them. It is important to me that this future fund now delivers on the promise to South Aucklanders, who, over many generations, have contributed to the Auckland Airport asset, which is no longer in public hands, and that they see some benefit of this. It is so important that the Auckland Future Fund returns that benefit to South Aucklanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EJust in the Manurewa area, to catch up in its investment in playgrounds to an area like the North Shore, you would have to invest around $70 million just to catch up, just to get on par. It\u2019s really important to me that this Auckland Future Fund recognises that and recognises the deficit and investment that South Auckland has dealt with over time and that this council is working towards over a longer period to rectify. I thank those councillors for the tireless advocacy, as well as Councillor Newman and Councillor Angela Dalton for their work in highlighting these issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EJust some quick points. As Councillor Henderson says, this fund is a $1.3 billion regional wealth fund, and that\u2019s a great thing to be able to have. It\u2019s designed to invest in the long-term benefit for current and future Aucklanders, turning what was available to council into an intergenerational investment. I hope that this focus on growing the value of this fund is also matched by investment to improve the things that make Auckland great: our local environment, our local facilities. It is a visionless and sad view of the future of Auckland when we have a member stand in this House from the ACT Party and say that there isn\u2019t value in things like dog parks and like those things that we would really like to see Aucklanders all have universal and public access to. I\u2019m very, very proud of cross-partisan support for many of those things, and I don\u2019t think it is a view shared by most people in this House, because it is an important role for the council to be able to continue to provide those public facilities to Aucklanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EOne question I want to raise here that we have to ask ourselves in Auckland is, as Aucklanders, now that there is this vehicle for strategic ownership of assets\u2014there are some strategic utilities in Auckland which were privatised in the 1990s\u2014is that working for us? Is it working for Aucklanders that the energy trust, which was privatised in 1993, is still held completely at arm\u2019s length from any sort of local representation or any sort of input from the council, who were duly elected by Aucklanders and are accountable to them? Now that we have this kind of fund, is it appropriate for us to now investigate, as not only Auckland MPs but alongside our council colleagues, a better mechanism for public accountability and control of those assets?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThe third point I want to make is to underscore those points made so eloquently by the Auckland councillors who are based in South Auckland: this has to be fair, and it has to be fair for South Auckland. To maintain public trust and confidence of Auckland as a whole, in something like this, we need to show that everyone is getting a fair go, and if South Aucklanders consistently feel that they have contributed more, over generations, to an asset, then it is fair that those people can expect a kind of investment that will bring them at least up to par with the rest of the city and that they will get a fair go from their council. I hope that is the case. I encourage the mayor to take on board those concerns, in what has been an excellent job of landing this with Aucklanders. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f6cd19edacb241b8a80e98f14f3742d5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2794479f2aa4241b072562373d77b34\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f6cd19edacb241b8a80e98f14f3742d5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2794479f2aa4241b072562373d77b34\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE (National):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you so much. As the last speaker on this bill, I\u2019d just like to start by congratulating my colleague and baby younger brother Carlos Cheung, who is so much taller than me and bigger than me\u2014he stands so tall that sometimes I feel like I get a pain in the neck when I actually look up to him. A bit of a joke there, but I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Hon Christine Fletcher, former member of Parliament for Eden and Epsom, who actually became the Mayor of Auckland as well as councillor for a long time. I know how hard she works to serve her community, and she was one of the people who was responsible for the establishment of the Auckland Future Fund, so I acknowledge her.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f6cd19edacb241b8a80e98f14f3742d5\u0022\u003EBeing the last speaker in the Chamber, it just feels like I\u2019m repeating everything that everyone else is saying. I just want to quote you something from the website of the Auckland Future Fund\u2014their vision. It says, \u201CThe Auckland Future Fund is an investment for all Aucklanders and future generations, and is designed to enhance the financial and physical resilience of T\u0101maki Makaurau. By diversifying Auckland Council\u2019s major investments, the Auckland Future Fund is part of a financial strategy to better protect and strengthen Auckland in times of need.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f6cd19edacb241b8a80e98f14f3742d5\u0022\u003EThis fund is all about getting one asset and becoming many assets that Auckland Council and the people of Auckland can actually benefit from. How this fund was funded is it was initially capitalised from the $1.31\u00A0billion divestment of their Auckland Airport shares, and it is invested in many things. I\u2019m just looking at the clock, Mr Speaker, and we\u2019re getting very close to the dinner break, and I just hope that this bill gets passed before that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f6cd19edacb241b8a80e98f14f3742d5\u0022\u003EI just want to say when a city works, you get great cities around the world. I know that Dan Bidois, my colleague, was talking about how his favourite city was Kuala Lumpur (KL)\u2014I grew up in KL, but I have seen many other cities that actually do what they do really well. I hope that with this fund, Auckland City can grow and perform better for the city of Auckland and their citizens. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u00222d2d56bffe334ca4ae57910994450d6c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222d2d56bffe334ca4ae57910994450d6c\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. We have one final call which our friends in Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori usually would take, but I\u2019m just standing as the final speaker to say that this is a really good piece of legislation and it\u2019s really forward-thinking, and, actually, we need to put some credit on Carlos Cheung, the great MP for Mt Roskill\u2014hard-working local MP. A lot of work has gone on behind the scenes, through the council, but Mr Cheung has eloquently led this process through the parliamentary process, as a local MP, as a local member, and as a local bill, and I think he\u2019s done an incredible job of it\u2014stewardship through the process. I just wanted to put credit on his name for what he has done, along with everybody else who has been acknowledged. The Auckland Future Fund has taken some great leadership from him as a local MP in Auckland, and I think he deserves all of the acclaim that comes with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI think, ultimately, this is pragmatic, it\u2019s forward-thinking, and it\u2019s fiscally responsible legislation, and that\u2019s what we like to see as a National-led Government. That\u2019s what we like to see in 2025 and that\u2019s why I think this is a fantastic piece of legislation, and therefore I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022 data-id=\u0022639666e299d04f98813a80a022893506\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022639666e299d04f98813a80a022893506\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a5921c9f295441b0ba570475a71a860e\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.55 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022431298c06ea44caaab8163cd05ba9390\u0022\u003ECompanies (Address Information) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fbf9dcd940bd4f2a93d9785ef655ecc9\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022 data-id=\u0022486db0912f894842b30689696dfdc3be\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022486db0912f894842b30689696dfdc3be\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E I move, That the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill be now read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI wish to begin my speech this evening, on the third reading of this bill, by thanking two of my colleagues\u2014one former; one current\u2014for their work on this issue too. The bill was initially Sarah Pallett\u2019s bill, who was the MP for Ilam in the last term of Parliament. Sarah had put the bill in the ballot, and after the 2023 election, I took the bill on under my name, in the ballot. When it was drawn, it was as much Sarah\u2019s bill as mine. The other person, who is a current MP, who I would like to thank is Laura McClure from the ACT Party. She was working on a similar issue and, I think, even had a somewhat similar, though not completely the same, bill in the ballot. My one got drawn first, and, of course, she has been very supportive of it throughout. I\u2019d very much like to acknowledge her input into this issue, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWhat does this bill do? It\u2019s actually quite a simple and straightforward thing that it does, in some ways. What it does is it enables people, where they feel that they are under some form of threat or could suffer some form of harm\u2014it enables people who are directors of companies to have their name removed from the register of companies in the Companies Office. The purpose that serves is quite straightforward. Look, at present, company directors are required to have their home address on their records in the Companies Office. What that means is that if you know someone\u2019s name and you know they are a director of a company, then it is a matter of a simple Google search\u2014a matter of seconds\u2014to bring up their home address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EBack in the olden days, before the internet, before the Companies Office records were all put online, if a person wanted to find out a company director\u2019s home address, they had to physically travel to the Companies Office and actually physically look up the records. There was a bit of a barrier there, so you\u2019d have to be pretty serious about doing it. Then, of course, your face would be in front of the Companies Office; people might remember who you are. Today, an anonymous Google search does the trick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EWhat that has done is it has led to some very real problems for people who have been stalked and harassed because someone wishing them ill has been able to find their home address through the Companies Office. We need to change that. What this bill does is it changes it. What it means is that a director can go to the Companies Office, sign a statutory declaration, and ask for their name to be removed. That applies to directors, and, of course, to shareholders who are also directors; they can have that name removed from the shareholders records.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EYou might think this was a small issue, but in fact it was one that Sarah Pallett did pick up and talk about, and she told me the stories about it. There was one woman who wrote to her, or who contacted her, when she was an electorate MP. This woman was a clinical psychologist. She was, obviously, working with some people who had some particular issues going on. She was at risk of being stalked and was in some difficult situations because of the nature of her work. She ran her own small company. Because she was a director of that company, her home address was discoverable on the Companies Office records. It\u2019s notable that the New Zealand College of Clinical Psychologists was one of the groups of people who put in a submission on this bill, in support of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI\u2019m holding here a copy of the letter that Sarah sent to the then Minister, asking for this problem to be sorted out. That was in February 2022. In December 2022, Sarah wrote again to the Minister at the time, bringing to attention a case where\u2014well, she says, \u201COne of the women who initially contacted me in January, relating to threats to her physical safety from a man who has historically victimised her through domestic assault, stalking, embezzlement, identity theft, and fraud, has continued to be at risk because of the state of the legislation.\u201D That man was able to stalk this woman. That is quite frightening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI want to thank here another person who made a submission on this bill, a person who I sat down and talked with. We met in Auckland and had a long talk about the issues behind this bill. That\u2019s Susan Templeton, who, as a founding director and sole shareholder of her company, had her address on the Companies Office register. She had gotten a text on her cellphone from someone who didn\u2019t identify himself. But then it became very apparent that person knew where she lived, and it was a whole lot of stalking going on. Her story goes on: this person had found her residential address; \u201CI soon noticed that on my morning walks, a car would pull up behind me very slowly on the street, and when I turned to look, they would speed off so fast. I never caught the licence number.\u201D It just goes on and on; the story goes on. She managed to find out the licence plate number, because this happened repeatedly, made a report, and it was the person who had been stalking her. He had found her because her address was available. This is a very real problem that needed to be addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThis bill does offer a solution of sorts, and I will speak about that in a moment, but what I want to point out in the meantime is that it isn\u2019t just these stories of individual women\u2014important stories. In terms of the submissions we received, we had a whole lot of submissions from pretty important entities in support of this bill\u2014not only in support of it; actually urging us to go further. We had submissions from the New Zealand Superannuation Fund, from the Restaurant Association, from Retail New Zealand, from Russell McVeagh, from Business New Zealand, from IAG, and from the Institute of Directors, who all thought the bill was a good step and who all urged us to go further. The particular step further, of course, would be to have shareholders be able to do this as well, not just shareholders who are also directors. I think there was a great deal of support for this bill. I thank those people for their submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThe other person I wish to thank at this time is Roger Wallis of Chapman Tripp, one of the partners there in corporate law, who wrote to me a number of times about the bill, actually, in his inimitable way, urging me to go further, saying, \u201CYou\u2019re doing a good thing, but goodness! It\u2019s got to be better.\u201D OK, I didn\u2019t quite get it there, Roger, but we did the best we could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThis bill has had a very long gestation to get to this stage. It was actually drawn from the ballot on 15 February 2024. As I said\u2014I think, in the committee stage reading\u2014that was back when I had red hair. A few things have changed since then. The first reading was on 20 March 2024. Then we had the whole select committee process. I would like to thank the chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, Parmjeet Parmar, and the members of that committee for their assiduous work on this bill. I see Vanessa Weenink smiling, there. She was the deputy chair\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d789c42815d140079015bee121388cf8\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Hard-working member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d483e80de51a481895213f42f74c2ca9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and did a lot of hard work on this bill, as well. Thank you for your contributions, Vanessa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThe bill came out of select committee\u2014a reasonable process\u2014and then I delayed the second reading for a little bit of time. Look, the reason for the delay was that as soon as this bill was drawn from the ballot, the Minister at the time contacted me and said, \u201COh, we don\u2019t need this bill. I\u2019ve got a companies amendment bill coming, which will offer a better solution.\u201D Indeed, the Minister does have a better solution coming. But that better solution\u2014it was promised it would be into the House before the end of last year. It wasn\u2019t, so we had the second reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EThen a few more months went by. At that stage, we had the committee stage. I\u2019d like to thank particularly the members of the Opposition for their assiduous work on the committee stage of this bill. Then I said to the Minister that, yes, I would delay this third reading. If he got his bill into the House before the end of the year, then I would withdraw my bill. His bill is not in the House. This is likely the last members\u2019 day of the year, so that is why I have brought this bill back now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003EI would like to thank everyone who has worked on this bill. I would like to thank people across the House for their support on this bill. I would like to thank Sarah Pallett and Susan Templeton and Laura McClure. Thank you to everyone who has helped to get this bill to this stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022eae7931ac2fc4ddc8f6bf184667acd6d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eae7931ac2fc4ddc8f6bf184667acd6d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022 data-id=\u002212a42041d2a14ce8a6291b890738b64d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212a42041d2a14ce8a6291b890738b64d\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a great pleasure to speak in support of the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill in its third reading. As Dr Deborah Russell has pointed out, it has been a long time getting through the House. In many ways, I can see now the wisdom of Dr Deborah Russell in saying that, yes, we\u2019ll wait and see if this new companies bill actually gets brought to the House, because we were promised many times that it was coming. It is a huge piece of work, and I just acknowledge that the officials are not just twiddling their thumbs. There\u2019s a lot of incredible detail to be worked through in that. However, in working through this bill we are putting a stop-gap measure in place for something that is a real-world problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EAs has been pointed out, there have been cases of stalking where people\u2019s information is being discovered through this method, and many are already not using their home address anyway because of that fear. However, when we went through the select committee process, one of the things that we considered was whether or not it could be something where we could change the scope of the bill to make it wider for including shareholders or to make it so that nobody has to have their home address included, or whether there could be another process that didn\u2019t need to be so prescriptive. For many of the submitters, as has been pointed out, this is just a small step, and it doesn\u2019t go far enough in terms of protecting people\u2019s privacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EThrough the select committee process, we did have some excellent submissions, and for me one that really stood out was from the Institute of Directors. They really encouraged us to look further, both with the shareholder aspect and also the aspect of identification, because of the fact that they had had such strong feedback from their directors that one of the key issues of safety and concern for directors in this country is the fact that their personal information is so easily discoverable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EThere was also the concern that, potentially, this factor could be one that holds women back from wanting to participate and wanting to become directors. There\u2019s enough of a potential risk in terms of the financial and fiduciary kind of responsibilities that come with being a director, but the actual personal risk to oneself that could be part of this is another factor that was raised. We want to increase and promote women\u2019s participation in governance roles and not have anything that distracts from it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EAs Dr Deborah Russell pointed out, the changes to the Companies Act that are, hopefully, coming will potentially allow for\u2014and the reason we have an address is so that we can definitely define and identify a director. We need to know that of the pages and pages of John Smiths, which particular John Smith this is, and an address is one way of confirming that identity. To have a director\u2019s personal identification number, a system of being able to have a director be identifiable across all of the entities that they are part of, would be an important step to having an assurance about identity. It would also have the extra benefit of preventing a phenomenon we see\u2014phoenixing of companies, where a director will close off one business and\u2014the next day, almost\u2014start up a new business in a similar industry and therefore dodge some requirements of legal jeopardy that they may have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EThis is a very small step, and because it\u2019s a member\u2019s bill, it\u2019s very narrow, and we did interrogate this very, very closely during the committee stage, and I must say it was a very generous question and answer response from the member in the chair. It\u2019s also probably one of the most fun nights that we\u2019ve had in the House on this side. It was a bit of a record for a member\u2019s bill; I think it was nearly four hours in the committee stage. It was well interrogated. It was incredibly detailed and it was well gone through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EWe did have a lot of excellent discussion through the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, and I really enjoyed the discussion we had, because we did have such a great array of submissions that were able to get into the detail of the legislation, and then we were able to make some very sensible minor tweaks. We did improve it through that process, and it was a very cross-party and agreeable way of working. Because it was one of the earlier bills that came to our committee, it really helped to build that camaraderie among those committee members. I really appreciated having Dr Deborah Russell with us for that time, and I thank her for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225cd0d07fe5f04776ba97ee6688be1593\u0022\u003EI also just want to quickly thank the officials who were there to support us all the way through, and also those submitters that came. It has been one of those things that has been delayed along the way, and I appreciate the member taking that time and being quite generous about that and being very collegial about it. But in the end, she was right, and much as the Minister might like the idea of things getting in, he\u2019s not the only one that has legislation that needs to get through, and these things sometimes don\u2019t work out quite the way that people predict. In the end, I think the member is absolutely right\u2014this needs to be done\u2014and also I would note that we had a year to get this done and sorted before any changes have to come into place from this legislation. Let\u2019s use that to encourage the Parliament to get the Companies Act work finished so that we don\u2019t have to double-do them. In closing, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022 data-id=\u002272c10d05d1a4465396bc66f987cd4033\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272c10d05d1a4465396bc66f987cd4033\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. We\u2019re supporting this bill. I want to acknowledge the Hon Deborah Russell for being so constructive throughout these debates, despite what I just heard\u2014a very \u201Cmost fun four hours of committee of the whole House\u201D debate. I actually do question about the kind of description of these processes as just kind of things that we should laugh at or boast about the length, when this is a bill that clearly is gathering crossparty support and the time that we use on it should genuinely be, if people are not opposing it, to actually examine it thoroughly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the member who the member holding the bill acknowledged: Sarah Pallett. I had the privilege of working with her in the last term, and so it\u2019s really good to see that a former member\u2019s work has been carried through to the third reading. That\u2019s really good to see.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a lot of ways that we need to be holding companies\u2019 directors that act unethically to account, but having mechanisms in place that risk people\u2019s privacy being undermined is not a useful method to hold company directors to account. The member in charge of the bill used a really good example in that regard, in that we got clinical psychologists whose privacy could be compromised as a result of the current provisions. I think in a health system where so much of our health\u2014primary health services, particularly\u2014are still held within the private sector, we\u2019ve got to acknowledge that we\u2019ve got people who would be deemed companies\u2019 directors who are providing really critical services to our communities, whose privacy is currently being put at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve been supporting this bill since the first reading, and we acknowledge the work of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee to explore the scope of the bill and include shareholders within the bill. I think the challenge now from the Government will be\u2014and I noted the comments that the National member made in relationship to phoenixing\u2014to turn its eyes to addressing those very same issues. It\u2019s a really serious issue. As the immigration spokesperson for the Greens, I know that phoenixing is a very unfortunate and common practice, and there are businesses that are often exploitative, and so I encourage the Government\u2014and their acknowledgement of these issues\u2014to turn their focus to tackling these exploitative practices. We look forward to members\u2019 bills continuing to be a constructive place for cross-party work and for those processes to be treated seriously, and so we commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022 data-id=\u0022e655fff7f2b84cf68a7848529481517a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e655fff7f2b84cf68a7848529481517a\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, it gives me great pleasure to rise on behalf of ACT and speak on the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill. I just want to acknowledge the member in charge, Dr Deborah Russell, and I wanted to thank her for her very kind comments about my colleague Laura McClure. I know Laura would have loved to have been here and spoken on the bill, but she had to go down to the Canterbury show, which is obviously a very important fixture. I think, as Dr Deborah Russell acknowledged, this was popped back on the Order Paper this morning, which was great, and I want to talk about that in a moment, because I think it\u2019s tactically very smart; otherwise, Laura McClure would have been here speaking. But you\u2019re going to get me instead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EI know the other thing Laura would like to just acknowledge, too, is that it\u2019s been a very constructive process, working with Dr Deborah Russell. I think she found it very easy to engage and give her feedback. Again, this is an idea that ACT has long had, and, again, I\u2019m sure Dr Russell wouldn\u2019t mind me saying that also Brooke van Velden in the last Parliament championed these ideas, because we do think that privacy in this area is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EOne of my favourite sayings is \u201CA good plan violently executed today is better than a perfect plan executed tomorrow.\u201D, and I think bringing this bill back on and getting it read tonight and getting it in place leads up to and really exemplifies that kind of saying. I think it\u2019s really good that you have decided to get it on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EThis is, as Dr Russell said, will be likely the last members\u2019 day of the year, so let\u2019s get this bill passed, because it is an important piece of legislation. It has had a long process through the House\u2014yes, some people have commented on the committee of the whole House stage, but sometimes Government members need to get their own back on the Opposition, who put us through that time and time again and again. I think Dr Russell took it in good humour and answered all the questions, and I don\u2019t think that members of this House, or the New Zealand public, could say that it wasn\u2019t well interrogated in the committee of the whole House. It was very well interrogated at the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003ELook, ACT has long acknowledged that the idea behind this bill is really, really important. It\u2019s about protecting people\u2019s privacy and safety when they are a company director, and privacy does matter. We live in, really, an age where lots of information is available at people\u2019s fingertips. Dr\u00A0Russell has already talked about Google searches, but there\u2019s just a wealth of information about everyday New Zealanders out there on the internet, in the cloud\u2014whatever the cloud is\u2014and I think this is very important, that we start to think about these issues in a modern context.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EWe, again, admit that being a company director, a shareholder, and actually having a company structure is a privilege, because it is a special type of legal entity which gives a business a special\u2014well, it gives it its own personality and legal protections. That is something that is both very important but also needs to be respected. We do know that people do have the right to understand who is running a company, who its shareholders are, who its directors are, but we don\u2019t think having personal, home address details necessarily prohibits that information being available. This bill really does ensure that people can still operate as directors. We\u2019ve obviously talked tonight about ensuring that particularly women and other people who might feel vulnerable having their home address information published can have that protected, but it does it in a way that ensures that there is contact information available for that company still having to be provided. We think it really does strike that balance about ensuring transparency.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EAgain, some comments have been made tonight about ideas around directors\u2019 IDs, which they do have in Australia, for example. Again, that might be some of the work that the Minister is bringing forward in his yet-to-be-revealed bill. Again, Dr Russell, you shouldn\u2019t feel special\u2014I haven\u2019t seen the Minister\u2019s work yet either, so it might be a pleasant surprise for all of us. Hopefully, that will marry in with this bill, and, again, I think it does. I think it\u2019s always good to keep pressure up on Ministers to make sure they do deliver on their work programmes, so I think this is a great way of doing this. I wouldn\u2019t call it a criticism, but probably the one area where we might have differed with Dr Russell is the idea around actually having to do the statutory declaration, which, look, it is possible to be done, but it is still a bar to actually putting this in place. Again, we probably would not have had that, as long as some of the other mechanisms were met. But I do think this bill is a really, really sensible change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really great when a member can actually get something over the line with the support of MPs across the House and do something which is actually going to be practical and make a difference. I think that is really great. I think it\u2019s also quite timely, again, when we get back to Government business either tomorrow or the next sitting, we\u2019re going to be talking about stalking and harassment. Again, I know there\u2019s a lot of support across this Parliament to actually get some proper laws in place in this area. I think it\u2019s very important that we acknowledge that we do have an issue around stalking and harassment, and doing something, even as small as this might seem, to stop that opportunity occurring, I think, is really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, I want to commend the Minister. This bill does strike the right balance between protecting the privacy of directors but also ensuring that the public and people who interact with companies can still get the necessary information. I do commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022d08f0904c0df421d93bbe27354c77d2c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d08f0904c0df421d93bbe27354c77d2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Now, I understand New Zealand First are going to split this call?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229597be2617ea4b81bbbb746021fe0d05\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: We are indeed. We were both prepared to speak, so we\u2019re going to split it between us. We know that there is a desire, an unusual desire, to make sure that we use our allocated time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8b5dce7da8543b08f7bee37f0977e98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8b5dce7da8543b08f7bee37f0977e98\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I will call Andy Foster, then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022 data-id=\u00226457124268b545f2b050bc5c21aa8194\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226457124268b545f2b050bc5c21aa8194\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, first of all, I want to start by congratulating the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for getting the bill and shepherding the bill through to this point in time. It was interesting to listen to the introduction and to hear the lengthy gestation that has been for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003ENow, New Zealand First is the only party in this House that actually opposed the bill at the first and second reading. I\u2019ll come back to the reasons that we did that shortly, but I do want to say that as Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March said, we do consider it\u2019s very important that the public, the shareholders, whoever it is that has an interest in the performance of the behaviour of companies are able to hold directors to account. The question is how that is done and whether that is done in a way which is safe, reasonable, and lawful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EAt the first reading, I look back at the notes and what I said in the Hansard, and I talked about the Fair Go principle. Of course, Fair Go, in the days that it was around, used to, occasionally, turn up on the doorsteps of various companies and say, \u201CWell, look, Mr Director, Madam Director, your company\u2019s actually not behaving in a way which is fair, reasonable, equitable.\u201D\u2014whatever it might be\u2014\u201CWe are trying to hold you to account.\u201D Actually, there was some good value in doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EHowever, we are also very conscious, as we\u2019ve heard in this debate already, that personal safety of those directors is a really, really important\u2014trumping all other things\u2014issue. Sadly, that is increasingly so. That\u2019s a reflection, I hope, not on our society as a whole but on some members of our society who are willing to cross the line into a behaviour which is less than helpful. \u201CI know where you live\u201D should not be something which sounds and is threatening, and that is the issue which sits behind this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EOf course, as MPs, we\u2019re very aware of this. We have the ability to have our names not on the electoral roll. We have the support of parliamentary security. We know that there is a potential issue for us, and if it\u2019s a potential issue for us\u2014of course, we saw our own party leader whose property was attacked not that long ago and had protests outside his property. Of course, there\u2019s legislation around exactly that issue as well, again, protecting individuals, in this case parliamentarians. But it\u2019s more than parliamentarians: there\u2019s also other people who might have protests outside their houses. It is an important thing, which we are, as a Parliament, well aware of. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EOur key issue was not about objection to directors having the right to safety. Our key issue, and it\u2019s come through in the speeches which we made in the first and second readings, was around the expectation\u2014I\u2019ll talk about that now\u2014that we would actually have another piece of legislation which will come up and actually deal with this issue in a comprehensive way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EI want to also pay tribute to Deborah Russell here for the way in which she\u2019s handled this, because she has shown the willingness to say\u2014and actually agreed with the Minister to say\u2014\u201CLook, if you bring your bill up, I\u2019ll pull mine.\u201D I think it\u2019s a really, really responsible way of doing it. But the reality is\u2014and we\u2019ve also engaged: we actually specifically said, \u201CWell, look, this is the position we\u2019re in. We\u2019ve not supported this bill because\u201D\u2014I talked to Minister Simpson\u2014\u201Cwe expect your bill to turn up. When\u2019s it going to turn up? When\u2019s it going to turn up? Is it going to turn up before Christmas?\u201D Look, what we hear now, clearly, is it\u2019s a much, much bigger bill. It\u2019s a review of the Companies Act. That\u2019s a really substantive piece of work. Clearly, it is not going to turn up in the time frame that we anticipated, that we hoped for, so as a consequence, we have changed our position and said that we will support the bill in its third reading, because we think that that is the right thing to do. The reason for our opposition, which was the expectation that there would be a much larger review of the Companies Act, is, clearly, not happening in a timely way, so we think it\u2019s appropriate that we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fdda043d491c47629c336b7aadb222fc\u0022\u003EThe final thing I want to say is it is really important that we do have mechanisms to hold directors to account, that there is still a way, in this bill, of getting in touch with those directors, and people being able to say, \u201CLook, there are concerns which people have got with the directors or with the company\u2019s behaviour.\u201D We expect that the Ministers, eventually, will have something\u2014which we\u2019ve heard will be done in a more comprehensive and a better way of doing that\u2014but for now, we think it\u2019s appropriate that we pass this piece of legislation, and we will support it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022 data-id=\u0022282925c663ce42e3a5a0fc72b95dbc42\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022282925c663ce42e3a5a0fc72b95dbc42\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. I\u2019m very happy to speak to the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill, which went through the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee that I was on. I\u2019m also reminded of a time where I stood on a certain bridge in Italy after having avoided being pickpocketed and looking at all the wonderful businesses that were on that bridge to recognise that that bridge, and that place in Italy, was the birth of the limited liability company, which has been with us for a couple of centuries and a half. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EI think we may have produced or gone a little further in some of the formations around what a director is involved in. I, myself, have been a director with responsibilities in an academic setting, many businesses, corporate, and social enterprises. I heard my colleague from the Green Party talk about some of the bad behaviours that are involved in being a director. I just want to give you a different view of that from being in that perspective. That is that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1dfc18a22eb4d60b5470fe648d950b0\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Phoenixing is objectively bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f103dcbf698449980902848b4be2e33\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, I missed that. That is that directors are responsible for an awful lot of responsibilities: health and safety, employees, and sometimes those employees\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228b7b671ebc6d45ae91350f8e13a7fb42\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022919cca7fc68f41688868694e4815f764\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Even the National Party said that phoenixing is bad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257989ae714d041f5a026561ee669e744\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are a little bit aggrieved, such as my companion is right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EClimate change, we heard in the Finance and Expenditure Committee this morning, is another large and onerous and possibly treacherous thing that can happen to directors, in terms of the fact that their responsibility for the decisions made by others may actually affect them and they can be facing large fines. There are a lot of responsibilities in being a director. To add harassment to that is actually not really fair, is it? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s wonderful that we\u2019ve actually had a chance to review some of these things, especially in the context that we are waiting the never-ending wait, I see, for the Companies Act amendment bill to come forward to us. We\u2019ll all look forward to that, because we have moved on from some of those early formations of businesses and companies. The modern-day ability to research a certain person\u2019s address is alive and well and will go far past this particular aspect of trying to discover. We all know this; this is true. But it landed with me when I reflected on my own business coming to the House. The important Parliamentary Service\u2019s people said to me, \u201CIs your address discoverable?\u201D\u2014and perhaps brought home a little stronger just recently with our leader, the Hon Winston Peters, having a personal attack on his own house. Those kind of things are quite pertinent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac6c3aa5817441f89ae786e919f239b\u0022\u003EYes, this bill is important for us. I think I would like to commend Dr Deborah Russell for her long suffering and forbearance in holding there, and holding to the will of what we needed to achieve in this bill and giving us the path towards the amendment, which is forthcoming, I am sure. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022 data-id=\u0022efa4ec0881ce4102a25f12627c8cfb9a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022efa4ec0881ce4102a25f12627c8cfb9a\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you. The Green Party\u2014like the previous speaker, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March, suggested\u2014do support this bill, and I think, again, this is something that is important. There are concerns that my colleague has articulated, but I think from a privacy and safety perspective, we do believe the bill to be an important step towards protection of individuals who may be subjected to this. I think the bill itself does provide sufficient safeguard in there, in the purpose of that there needs to be genuine reason and declaration for the registrar to determine that there is a serious concern regarding the impact of the availability of the information on their personal safety. I think from that perspective, that has been well covered. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EI do want to address one of the things that other members have mentioned quite a bit. This is a bill that has gone through select committee stage, and the member opposite has mentioned that it went through a four-hour committee stage. I just want to note the fact that this is a four-page bill that is done clause by clause; there are no parts to it. I do find it interesting that when we are looking at Government bills\u2014and particularly bills where Ministers may potentially drop late-stage amendments on the committee during the committee of the whole House stage\u2014to feel that it is OK for the Government members to shut down a committee stage debate or to seek a closure motion within a much shorter period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EI am heartened by the fact that the Government members are able to scrutinise a bill, and I will be holding the Government members to account at an hour-per-page standard for all future bills that come through this Parliament, whether it is a member\u2019s bill or Government bill. I think anything else would be a complete mockery of our democratic processes. I think that is something that I am incredibly looking forward to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003EWith that, we support this bill to the House, and I look forward to the Government members\u2019 contributions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022251588d8958f46e0867e02f50da14ef3\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you\u2019ve got seven minutes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e2154eca8dae42a480d28fe23da6e395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290822c7e5e554ec0a8ac1e43074ea62e\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014in future. It\u2019s not a 30-second speech though. I will look forward to the Government contributions for future committee stages. Like I said, I have a very process-based mind and I like rules and standards, so we\u2019re going to be looking at one-hour-per-page of committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022 data-id=\u0022e570e7f9290a41188c2be26f54f33175\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e570e7f9290a41188c2be26f54f33175\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam):\u003C/span\u003E Excellent, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill in the name of the Hon Dr Deborah Russell. I think this represents quite a necessary step towards balancing corporate accountability with the fundamental right of personal safety for those who serve as directors of companies here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003ECurrently, the Companies Act 1993 requires the residential addresses of company directors to be publicly available and easily accessible on the Companies Register. Of course, some of this legislation has been put forward before things like the internet were available, so it has meant that this is now very, very easily accessible. While corporate transparency is vital, this practice has created quite a bit of vulnerability for some people who are directors. Forcing the public disclosure of home addresses exposes directors and those living with them to significant harms, including stalking, harassment, and other acts of violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EOf course, it\u2019s not just for the directors; it\u2019s also for the families. I think, living a bit in the public eye, as an MP with a young family, you do have to be mindful of the safety of your children and young family as well. Even with protests that may happen, they might not understand what\u2019s really going on, but they can understand the uneasiness and threat that this can pose. It doesn\u2019t actually take many people to cause harassment or stalking\u2014it can be just one or two\u2014but it can have a drastic effect, not only on the director of the company but also on their wider family that lives with them. During the select committee process, I do believe there was a lot of views sought on this, and it was widely accepted, and there were a lot of people saying that directors do really consider their privacy as important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EThis bill really does address a specific, urgent gap in our current regime. Presently, only directors who have been issued a protection order under the Family Violence Act 2018 may apply to have their residential addresses suppressed, leaving many directors really facing threats unprotected. This will be a useful initiative, which I do believe is very widely supported. It will be quite a simple amendment to the Companies Act 1993, to safeguard directors and their families from the very real risks associated with public discourse. Of course, we\u2019ve seen in other jurisdictions quite tragic outcomes when people have taken exception to company executives. We haven\u2019t really witnessed that in New Zealand to the same degree\u2014we have had, as we\u2019ve heard, many cases of stalking, and probably many acts of violence\u2014but it\u2019s something that we need to bear in mind.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EThere was always a bit of to-ing and fro-ing about this bill and the process to go through to have a different address put down. You need to have a statutory declaration, but, unfortunately, sometimes these things can happen out of the blue, and you\u2019re not necessarily realising you\u2019re at risk until it\u2019s too late. Potentially, that could be something that could be tidied up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the work of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee. This bill actually went through that committee before I became a member. I became a member of that committee at the start of this year. I think they did a great job on going through this legislation and trying to make it as good and as well-formed as possible. There were a number of unanimous recommendations that the committee made, which have then been put into this bill. One of them was improving the clarity by replacing the original term \u201Caddress for service\u201D with the clearer term \u201Calternative address\u201D. During the committee of the whole House, we did kind of tease out different technicalities around that address, and, of course, there are some exceptions that you can\u2019t use: things like postal centres, document exchanges, or the company\u2019s registered office. We do need to guard against misuse, we need to have transparency, but, of course, we need to make sure we can have that safety. One of the other things is that there can only be one alternative address used at any one time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EThe select committee also ensured that the protection was comprehensive so there wasn\u2019t going to be leakage in other places where the address or documents that might be publicly available would have that information that people would then be able to discover. Of course, we have some amazing tools on the internet that can find information\u2014even deeply buried in documents\u2014and I think that is an extra safeguard that we needed to put in. We also made sure that we could extend it to make sure that it covers shareholders who live with the directors because, of course, we often know that some of these family businesses can have directors and shareholders in the same household. We made sure that we could kind of close that loophole and make that important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EThere were a number of other key operational improvements that the committee made. The application now no longer needs to be made by the director personally, allowing professionals such as lawyers or accountants to apply on their behalf. I think that just really makes common sense. The bill also now covers prospective directors and shareholders, allowing their addresses to be kept private right from the onset. Once again, I think that\u2019s just a very common-sense amendment that was put in the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002212fd037a8544418390244b7c3a65216e\u0022\u003EPut all together, I think there have been some serious concerns around people\u2019s addresses being able to be made public. I appreciate that there is work going on\u2014a more comprehensive review of the Companies Act\u2014but this, of course, is a bit of a stop-gap measure that will actually fill a real gap that we have at the moment. I think it has struck a very good balance of being able to locate rogue directors\u2014if I could use that term\u2014to address misconduct but also making sure we have the right balance for, actually, directors\u2019 right to safety. Of course, as I mentioned, the requirement for a statutory declaration might be a little limiting, and I think that\u2019s probably something we\u2019ll see going forward. Basically, I think this provides a necessary shield against maybe some untoward behaviour that, unfortunately, some directors may face. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022 data-id=\u00221a08b59ad36c4af9b733a6d7abc70794\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a08b59ad36c4af9b733a6d7abc70794\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It is a pleasure to speak on a members\u2019 day on any of these bills that attain the special place of having cross-partisan support around the House. It\u2019s a real celebration of when select committees and parliamentarians are able to identify issues, work on them together, and arrive on common ground where\u2014especially in a case like this\u2014it\u2019s not going to be top of the pops for the Government to resolve but it is something that makes a real difference to real people and is a meaningful change. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EFirst, let me acknowledge my colleague Sarah Pallett, the former MP for Ilam. She was passionate about these issues, and her work in introducing this bill has made a change and it will have a meaningful and lasting impact in our legislation. May I also congratulate the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for doing what many members in this House will never have the opportunity to do, which is to not only have a member\u2019s bill pulled but also take it right the way through the process, to work with Ministers and other members from around the House, and to arrive at something that everyone can agree with. It is a real career achievement, and I congratulate you, Dr Russell. I also want to acknowledge Laura McClure, a hard-working member of the ACT Party who has also raised these issues and been able to continue on this work. This is a really special opportunity to be able to debate this and to have seen it evolve along the way as something that others have been able to bring their perspectives to and ultimately decide was worthy of their support at this stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t take up too much time, but I wanted to record for the House at this juncture just how important this is for small businesses. When you think about law and where big businesses have access to something that small businesses don\u2019t, it should be incumbent on all of us, as parliamentarians, to scrutinise those laws very carefully. As Todd Stephenson said\u2014I thought it was a really interesting and pretty philosophical point around what the corporate veil is for, who gets to enjoy the privilege of the corporate veil, and how ordinary working New Zealanders might continue to buy in to a system like that, which is a pretty special aspect of our legal system and is very fundamental to the way that our economy works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EWhen you have rules where big businesses can, essentially, circumvent the requirement to put their directors\u2019 home addresses on the Companies Register, where, say, if you are a director of ANZ, you will be able to put Queen Street as your address, or if you are the director of a company that doesn\u2019t have premises at 80 Queen Street\u2014that\u2019s the BNZ, sorry\u2014you will also be able to engage a lawyer or an accountant in some situations to receive a document for you legally. It\u2019s perfectly fine to have the address of a professional services firm like that to receive legal communications on your behalf, but if you\u2019re a small business, that\u2019s not available to you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThis is one of those issues which, for some businesses, they get around it and it is standard practice to get around it. But for others, such as those sole traders, those mum and dad shop owners, and also the doctors, the lawyers, the architects, and the people who trade on their own professional account and use a company structure to arrange their professional affairs\u2014any of these people who are going about their ordinary business might not even realise that their personal details are available online for everyone to see, and not only are they affected by that but everyone in their household is, and that\u2019s a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a problem because small businesses are treated in a way where transparency is extremely high for them\u2014probably higher than most New Zealanders would appreciate\u2014and then for large businesses, it\u2019s standard practice to be able to circumvent that. It\u2019s not even something that most directors who are paid directors on these sorts of boards would probably even think was something that was appropriate for them to do, because they\u2019ve always got around it, and the expectation is that they will use a business address or the address of a professional services firm. It\u2019s right that we even this up, and the point I want to make about evening this up is that this is an easy step in this member\u2019s bill, to give small businesses the privilege that their large competitors have, and we should look for all opportunities that we can to make sure that we are advancing that sort of change. It\u2019s fixing up a discrepancy which is unfair at the moment, and it\u2019s unfair on some of the hardest-working business owners, whom we need to be encouraging. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s more work to be done by the Government. I thank members from around the House for acknowledging that this was going to be part of the wider Companies Act review. That is incredibly important work, and I don\u2019t want to labour that point, but I would just say that there are a huge number of people who practise in this field who are relying on further Government work to progress the Companies Act review. There are some really big issues there\u2014particularly around directors\u2019 liability\u2014which other parts of legislation hinge upon. The work on the phoenixing of companies is incredibly important for sectors like the construction sector, which has been affected by the economic downturn at the moment. There are business owners, there are creditors, and there are insurers who are relying on us in Parliament being able to progress that and to get it right for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also important, as we improve our insolvency pathways for businesses and modernise the Act so that it reflects current online business practices, that those two go at the same time so that the system can work as a whole and that we tighten the holes in the net that we all acknowledge are there, because the Companies Act is old and difficult to practise with. That piece of work shouldn\u2019t hold us up in doing this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003EIt is a good thing that we are making this change, which is not the whole way there, and I would caution anyone who thinks that the fully gold-plated version is also what we need when what we have here is a sensible solution, which might not be the full business ID, but it does fix the problem for small businesses. This is a fair solution for those mum and dad shop owners and for hospitality owners who are running a four-man band. This is the solution which actually works for them perfectly, because they don\u2019t own a group of companies. They\u2019re not a director on seven different companies. They don\u2019t intend to have a portfolio of directorships from their 50s to their 70s, and to have a complicated web of corporate affairs. This is the perfect solution for the little guy. This is probably the best solution that we needed here. Let\u2019s not overdo it when it comes to that wider Companies Act review, but let\u2019s make sure that it works for small businesses and the people who need it most. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022 data-id=\u0022e473d0ce501e4d2299b8f70c5e9afdc8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e473d0ce501e4d2299b8f70c5e9afdc8\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to speak on this member\u2019s bill, the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill. I want to congratulate the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for drafting this bill and also having it pulled. It\u2019s rare as hens\u2019 teeth, it feels, for many members of Parliament in this House to have a bill pulled from the ballot, and it\u2019s even rarer to get it all the way through the third reading. I want to congratulate that member.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003EThis is a great member\u2019s bill. It addresses a longstanding issue\u2014and certainly one I\u2019ve actually had a longstanding interest in personally, because it seems to be one of these anomalies that we\u2019ve allowed the personal information of individuals who are involved in a company to have to have that online and available for the whole world, with no protections available, and it\u2019s their home address. The home is a person\u2019s castle. It\u2019s a safe place for people. To have that available for people\u2014many of whom are operating small businesses across New Zealand\u2014has been one of those odd things about our system that I think is an anachronism from a past era and one that hasn\u2019t been appropriate for some time. I think it\u2019s great that this is being addressed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003EI just think that the unique landscape in New Zealand, where 97 percent of businesses in New Zealand are small businesses\u2014that\u2019s employing 20 people or less. The majority of our landscape is small businesses, and those people who take the risk to set up a small business, to make it work, and to provide employment for people\u2014and they are the majority of the businesses in this country\u2014I think it\u2019s great to have that extra protection for them where their home address doesn\u2019t need to be available online for all without some protection around that. It\u2019s great that this is doing something about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003EThis does replace a director\u2019s address with a service address in public record, provided conditions are met, and it allows directors to substitute the residential address with a service address through a process requiring a personal application, risk declaration, alternative address, and a fee, which is applicable across multiple companies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f111048ae5a4b77b2be86987bd8aafb\u0022\u003EOther speakers before me have spoken about this. The Government is working on a comprehensive Companies Act amendment bill, which will go beyond what is proposed in this bill and deliver more comprehensive protections for directors, but that doesn\u2019t take away from this being a great step forward in providing a solution to a longstanding issue. That\u2019s, ultimately, what this Parliament\u2019s all about. It\u2019s great to have some bipartisanship, I think across the House, on an issue that I think we all recognise is an important one that needs to be addressed. Sometimes, I think, people across New Zealand only see the headlines and see the things that we disagree on and don\u2019t actually see things like this, where we get agreement across the House. With that, I congratulate the member again and commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022157391dc1d004f11a47abde46bc77fec\u0022 data-id=\u0022654e8b4884be4395be9af179f3ec0217\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022157391dc1d004f11a47abde46bc77fec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022654e8b4884be4395be9af179f3ec0217\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to rise and speak in support of this bill. Like colleagues across the House, I would join in congratulating the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for her work shepherding this bill through the House, but also Sarah Pallet, who I was in Parliament with last term, in terms of the genesis of the bill. It takes a lot of courage and wisdom to see the issue, research the issue, draft the bill, and pitch the bill, as well, so congratulations to both of them, as well as to Laura McClure. I think this House is doing some really diligent work in terms of looking at harassment issues across the House, and there\u2019s a real cross-party flavour to that work that\u2019s been done. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022157391dc1d004f11a47abde46bc77fec\u0022\u003EI think, sometimes, members\u2019 bills can seem like they fix very small things but actually have quite a big impact, and this is potentially one that does that. It does that because it responds to real issues. I remember reading an article in 2023 about a woman who had to get a protection order in trying to demonstrate that there was good reason for her details to not be published. But also, we have had prominent figures like Kirsten Patterson from the Institute of Directors New Zealand\u2014so the industry representatives themselves\u2014calling for this, as well. I also think it\u2019s quite remarkable when we see bills travelling through the House that offer two solutions to a similar problem but from different angles. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022157391dc1d004f11a47abde46bc77fec\u0022\u003EWe also have the stalking and harassment legislation\u2014that also has a cross-party flavour. Its genesis was with the Hon Ginny Andersen, who first had a member\u2019s bill in this area, and then the issue was taken up cross-party, and there were a lot of discussions at select committee on that. I think\u2014I hope\u2014that the public knows and is reassured that on these important issues, we continue to work together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022157391dc1d004f11a47abde46bc77fec\u0022\u003EMy very last point was just in response to Todd Stephenson\u2019s lament at the fact that statutory declarations are still needed. I thought I\u2019d just raise a fun fact that up until 1998, post shop managers could take statutory declarations. Now, in 1998, that was done away with, and part of the argument was that there were plenty of other people out there who could take those statutory declarations. I hope that reassures the member somewhat. But once again, congratulations to the member, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002245a91c82858d44fda0df4854f18cb4a9\u0022 data-id=\u002263aa97c646784c7db1212f90f564b98c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002245a91c82858d44fda0df4854f18cb4a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263aa97c646784c7db1212f90f564b98c\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie):\u003C/span\u003E E te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, n\u014Dku te maringa nui an\u014D\u2014whakaae kotahi t\u0101tou an\u014D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002245a91c82858d44fda0df4854f18cb4a9\u0022\u003E[Madam Speaker, it is my good fortune again\u2014we are all in agreement again.]  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002245a91c82858d44fda0df4854f18cb4a9\u0022\u003EFor the second night in a row, I have the great pleasure of rising to speak in this House on a bill that we all agree on. That is why I love members\u2019 days\u2014love, love, love members\u2019 days. We have heard a full rendering of the bill in hand, and we\u2019ve heard many congratulations to Deborah Russell. Can I add mine as well, not only in terms of your perseverance in steering the bill through but also in the way that you have set an example in terms of working so constructively with the Minister and the committee on that. It reminds us, again, of what is possible on members\u2019 day. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002245a91c82858d44fda0df4854f18cb4a9\u0022\u003EWhen I look ahead, I\u2019m aware that every second that I am speaking here tonight is a second that my good friend and colleague Carl Bates has to wait for his first chance in the chair. He\u2019s very excited about that. I\u2019m very much looking forward to getting through to the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. Then, of course, following that, we have a conscience vote on Kieran McAnulty\u2019s bill as well. I love these days. Sometimes I wish that we had more members\u2019 days, but tonight, in this moment, it\u2019s all about the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill. It is my pleasure to add my support to this bill. There has been a full rendering of why this bill makes so much sense, of why it serves our communities, our companies, our individuals, and our businesses so well. With that, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022 data-id=\u0022d42cf5e332a8403dacd8ba55d4887c14\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d42cf5e332a8403dacd8ba55d4887c14\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker, for this opportunity to speak on the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill. When I came to this Parliament, I was a director of, I think, three different companies, and so I have some experience with the Institute of Directors, who submitted in support of this bill, and with some of these issues, and, of course, as an MP, I am very aware of our profiles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI wanted to note that one of the things the bill does is, as we\u2019ve heard, that if you make a statutory declaration, it has a threshold in it that it is likely to result in physical or mental harm. That is a higher threshold than I expected upon looking at the bill, but there it is. You have to do that to get this alternative address. I think most people in Parliament are aware that if people really want to, they can probably find your address, but it\u2019s good to put a step in between that so it makes it a little bit difficult and reduces the risk. We heard earlier some commentary about how in the past if you wanted to see who a company director was, you would have had to go to the Companies Office, and that would have taken some effort, whereas now you can Google it and it comes up. This is just adding that step in there for people who want it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f7e23d3e36441cbb5adcaca9866cbeb\u0022\u003EI want to commend Sarah Pallett, who thinks very carefully about these issues and worked very hard on a range of issues associated with women\u2019s safety in particular whilst she was in Parliament. Also, of course, I commend the Hon Dr Deborah Russell, who has brought this bill through the House to the third reading stage\u2014and we\u2019re almost there\u2014and everybody else. I have not been involved with this legislation, but I\u2019ve been sitting here this evening and hearing the names of many other members of this House from all different parties, and also from people around the country. Thank you to all those people who made it happen. Thank you to the people who\u2019ve taken the time to make submissions. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u002238e78b85626a459286eafbbc60784881\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238e78b85626a459286eafbbc60784881\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E How good is a members\u2019 day? You know, I heard Xu-Nan just before making comments about extended periods of time over committee of the whole House stages and things. It\u2019s not necessarily about the quantity of the committee stage; it\u2019s about the quality of the contributions from the members being involved. That\u2019s right, Vanessa Weenink\u2014it\u2019s what you do with the committee stage that\u2019s really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I commend the member Dr Deborah Russell, because she diligently sat in her chair during the committee stage. We sat here on our side and did\u2014number one, the most important job of us as elected MPs is to scrutinise legislation to make sure the intentions are right, to get those things on Hansard, because if we ever have to come back to refer to it, if anyone out in the general public needs to come back and refer to it, they can see it on the Hansard; they can see the rationale from the member in charge. That\u2019s why that scrutiny stage was so important through the committee of the whole House. I commend the member. She played in good faith in that process, and I commend her for engagement with us in the Government benches.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI\u2019m rising as the final speaker to speak in support of this legislation. \u201CBest till last\u201D, Dan Bidois says. He\u2019s not wrong. I want to acknowledge all members across the House. It\u2019s not common to have, sort of, full Kumbaya moments in this debating chamber, particularly not at about 8.35 p.m. on a Wednesday evening, may I say on a member\u2019s day, but I just want to say what a great process it has been to watch this legislation progress\u2014actually, a number of pieces of legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EBut to see one where the members got the bill to a place where you can get political parties from across the board\u2014now, I do need to be slightly careful here, because we\u2019re still going to vote on the legislation, and we\u2019ve had a bit of a change since the second reading and the committee of the whole House. Our new independent members, well, they may well have changed their vote, and I\u2019m looking forward to seeing them turn up to cast it to see how they feel about the legislation. But I do commend the member for getting cross-party support on the legislation and getting it right. I think that takes a lot of work, and I commended her for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this bill, it\u2019s not a complex bill and it\u2019s not ideological and it\u2019s not abstract, but it\u2019s fundamentally about people and their safety and modernising the system that was designed for an era that, really, no longer exists in 2025. The Companies Register does serve an essential purpose. Transparency in business matters; it\u2019s really important. Public confidence in things like our markets, accountability for corporate actors\u2014and no one in the House is arguing that. But the Companies Register was built in a time when transparency, as Rachel Brooking just quite rightly said in her contribution, was walking into an office, requesting a paper file, and then physically inspecting it. That\u2019s what used to transpire\u2014probably before I was born, but that\u2019s probably what transpired. I can\u2019t tell you first hand\u2014can\u2019t say I\u2019ve done it specifically myself, but I\u2019m told. Rachel Brooking told me that that\u2019s what happened. You would walk into the office and, say, request the physical paper, and then you would inspect it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EBut in 2025, our world isn\u2019t built quite like that anymore. It\u2019s where transparency now means you put a name into a Google search bar and you instantly receive someone\u2019s home address, the postcode, and you can even get directions. You can get directions on how to get to their house. You couldn\u2019t get that when Rachel Brooking went into the Companies Register and said, \u201CCan I have a look at the information on the director?\u201D and they said, \u201CYeah, here it is\u2014here it is.\u201D But they didn\u2019t say, \u201COK, now you need to take the first street on the right and then the next one on the left and then take another left and that\u2019s how you get there.\u201D But you can today. That\u2019s why this legislation change is really important, that Deborah Russell has put up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EAs we\u2019ve sort of talked about\u2014and I can\u2019t believe I\u2019m going to agree with him, but Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March talks about doxxing\u2014doxxing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022852fdca389144e7bb6f1e6815736700c\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Are you feeling OK?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229500b12fee804389ad157e8a8fce96b2\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I am feeling OK\u2014I am feeling OK. Kumbaya hasn\u2019t completely gone to my head yet. Transparency is essential, but doxxing by default is not. Right now, the law doesn\u2019t distinguish between a director\u2019s professional identity and their personal point on the map. It does not distinguish between, say, a commercial address and a family home. It does not distinguish between accountability and risk. But this bill finally does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EIt says clearly that a director must be reachable. They must be identifiable. They must be accountable under the law. But it also says they do not have to trade their personal safety and, actually, wider than that, the safety of their family and the security of their family to do so. This isn\u2019t about anonymity, and this isn\u2019t about, say, things like secrecy. This is not about hiding corporate misconduct. It\u2019s about proportionality. It\u2019s about what logic tells us is the inherent public good in publishing the home address of a dairy owner in Welcome Bay in my home electorate in the Bay of Plenty, or the tourism operator in the beautiful Mount Maunganui, or an independent trustee in Maungatapu, or that small engineering firm in Papamoa, who happens to run their business from the same place that their kids catch the school bus. How could that possibly be right or fair in 2025? They\u2019re not hiding and they\u2019re not evading sight from other people or accountability. They\u2019re simply being asked not to be treated as public infrastructure in 2025.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI do want to speak\u2014and I wrote a little bit about this, because I want to speak for a moment about the world as it is, not the world as we sometimes wish it was. Harassment today has changed. Threats have changed. Stalking has changed. Intimidation has changed. They\u2019ve moved online, they\u2019ve scaled, and they\u2019ve accelerated. You no longer need influence, resources, or proximity. You just need the access to Google. We\u2019ve seen people like our local councillors on city and regional councils across the country being threatened at their home, health professionals harassed for doing their jobs, public servants being caught out on the street, for example, and journalists warned that their houses will be found. Those are all in recent history. Every one of those cases begins with the same sentence of \u201CWe know where you live.\u201D, because it\u2019s publicly available. This legislation goes to that point to change it and to update it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003ENow, there were some questions\u2014and I had a look through the select committee report\u2014around: what about service of legal documents? That was a question I actually asked in quite large detail to the member in charge at the committee stage. She doesn\u2019t remember. I do remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221728c83aef144fd2932788b376b5ffe8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14e7f7cc15346a288e10d354fb25620\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: I do. I remember.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022790c151b18ef4c33a76e28e2fc82b7d6\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you do\u2014oh, she does. I stand corrected. She does remember\u2014she does remember. I\u2019d welcome her taking another call to talk about it if she\u2019d like. The answer is really simple and sensible. This bill does not remove the requirement to provide an address for service. It strengthens it by ensuring that there are reliable and appropriate channels for contact that protect both due process and personal safety. The two are not mutually exclusive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThen there was a question around transparency. Transparency is about knowing who is responsible for a business. It\u2019s not about publishing a residential address when a service address will do the better job and be safer and with less collateral risk. I do really want to make it clear that this bill does not reduce accountability. It refines it. I think that\u2019s a really important point: it doesn\u2019t reduce accountability; it refines it. I think that is really clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMPs have received emails. Councillors, they\u2019ve received phone calls and voicemails. Employers, in some cases, have called the police, and families\u2014some directors have had to install cameras at their own home because of harassment they have received at their own family home, where they may have young children. They may have grandchildren, for example, at their own home, and they have had to take those drastic steps. The threat landscapes that they are facing have fundamentally changed in 2025. I think good law adjusts to reality; it does not ignore it out of nostalgia. I think that is really, really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EIn my home electorate of the Bay of Plenty, we celebrate people who build things. We have incredible orchards. We have amazing businesses, fishing fleets, tourism ventures, tech start-ups, trades, and family companies that quietly keep communities like Mount Maunganui, Welcome Bay, Te Puna, Oropi, Papamoa, and Tauranga moving. Most directors on the company register are not high-profile power brokers; they\u2019re employees with dusty boots, inventors with late-night prototypes, growers tracking export seasons, accountants helping neighbours, and people who said, \u201CLet\u2019s give it a go.\u201D and did the paperwork themselves. For the founders, the small business owners, and the growers, retailers, and employers, the mums and dads across the Bay Plenty and New Zealand, the bill says, \u201CWe see you, we value what you build, and we do not think safety should be optional for those who step forward to lead.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EGood law is not always dramatic. Sometimes it\u2019s practical, sometimes it\u2019s protective, sometimes it simply closes the door that should have never been opened. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022 data-id=\u0022a13c532a55ca4fa1aa164f61fb6191d3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a13c532a55ca4fa1aa164f61fb6191d3\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Speaker. Look, it\u2019s a pleasure to take this final call in this debate. I\u2019ll keep it brief, because I know that the member who has the next bill up is keen and eager to get, perhaps, into the chair. I do want to acknowledge my colleague the Hon Dr Deborah Russell for shepherding this bill all the way through to the third reading. In doing so, I also want to acknowledge a former colleague of the former 53rd Parliament, Sarah Pallett, who basically pulled this particular bill together. Dr Russell has continued it through to today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s a wonderful testament to the fact that Dr Russell has indicated that she has been more than happy to have parked this bill and, actually, was prepared to pull it if the Government had had something in place. But we\u2019ve got to the point now where it hasn\u2019t been the case, and it\u2019s a pleasure to be able to support this bill this evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s interesting that the Companies Act 1993 indicates a time when things were very different, when there weren\u2019t as many small businesses in this country, where the examples that have been shared in the Parliament this evening were not the examples that those who are in public service or in office were able to experience at the time. I think this is a bill that is going to make a huge difference to personal safety, to households, to the way in which people can have a sense of security about going about their daily business and not having to worry about the fact that they will have to disclose their home address as part of that. This is something that puts that right. It\u2019s surprising that the submissions indicated, as I understand it, that people who are directors already don\u2019t actually disclose their home address because of the fear of what this means. I think that is a huge indication that this is a bill that will make a huge difference. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ea399a30464f434e93ae242bc766e499\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00227d16d4daa0ee42eda15dda44dfc31b70\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d16d4daa0ee42eda15dda44dfc31b70\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just take a moment to remind members about referencing people that are not in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003EI declare the House in committee for consideration of the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002258277daa84a54e94b8ef732d3b4e12da\u0022\u003EJuries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022719b95819273457581036694bb3454a6\u0022\u003EIn Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b5fe320742e74a65b2a054b128e3f6cc\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 6, and the Schedule\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00228a5aaef35a294a7f82cc9c128fc0e4e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228a5aaef35a294a7f82cc9c128fc0e4e3\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. We start with clause 1, the debate on clause 1, \u201CTitle\u201D. The question is that clause 1 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022 data-id=\u00226526b895eb19474f8dbe0a071cfd6679\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002266d6872f24ce4f77ba5ac75f0fc62c76\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226526b895eb19474f8dbe0a071cfd6679\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (Junior Whip\u2014National):\u003C/span\u003E I seek leave for all provisions to be taken in as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022bb9fab274e5d46d8b29fd941fb01c5e1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bb9fab274e5d46d8b29fd941fb01c5e1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. The question is that clauses 1 to 6 and the Schedule stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u002272d83d61358e4e449871819e1c591523\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272d83d61358e4e449871819e1c591523\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair\u2014fantastic. It\u2019s a great way to start this evening. I just want to commend Carl Bates. This is going to be his first time in the chair. I\u2019m not going to play nice, but I still want to wish him well from the start.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EI want to start, firstly, at the first part, because, actually, I\u2019m going to work my way through the legislation\u2014even though we\u2019re taking it as one part, I\u2019m going to make sort of a systematic approach through the legislation. From a rugby referee and a hockey umpire, you\u2019d expect nothing different but to follow the rules and follow them to the letter of the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThe first one is on the title. At the moment, the legislation is called the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill. I wondered if the member had considered alternatives to the title, particularly related to the word \u201Cexcusal\u201D. Now, I think the word \u201Cexcusal\u201D has got a few points going with it at the moment. It can be a little bit on the nose, a little bit, if we think about the word \u201Cexcusal\u201D. I thought, had the member considered whether, actually, looking to include the age specifically in the legislation? If we think about it\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022576de26dd70546dbba4455c68c70ccab\u0022\u003EHon Member\u003C/span\u003E: McCallum. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0648f725ecf4df2a0a79a2391fc29b1\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I don\u2019t want to talk ill of members not here. But had the member considered, because at the moment it\u2019s 65, and, as we\u2019re going to dive into further down the legislation\u2014[Grant McCallum enters the Chamber] Oh, he is here. It\u2019s 65, but it is moving to 72 under the legislation. I wondered whether the member had, firstly, considered actually removing the word \u201Cexcusal\u201D and looking to see whether including the words \u201C72\u201D or \u201Cthe age of 72\u201D\u2014something like that. I think including the word \u201Cjuries\u201D in the title is really paramount, because that\u2019s, ultimately, what we\u2019re talking about here and what\u2019s involved\u2014but whether he\u2019d considered actually including the word \u201C72\u201D, which, I think, is vitally important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c422447af22e4c89a5e5b07cb11295e0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de218889232d4412b9ca305c9b4d59c3\u0022\u003ESteve Abel\u003C/span\u003E: Give us the full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c06ab8624156470bbbf2417cae1b9ee5\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Give us the full name\u2014well, that\u2019s the issue, Steve Abel, because I\u2019ve actually been thinking about it quite long and hard, actually, particularly while I was just giving my previous contribution on the Companies (Address Information) Amendment Bill. I was actually thinking about \u201CJuries (Age of Excusal/Maximum 72) Amendment Bill\u201D, or whether you\u2019d want to get rid of\u2014would you think you\u2019d get rid of \u201Cexcusal\u201D altogether and just have \u201CJuries (Not Above 72 Years Old) Amendment Bill\u201D or something along those lines? I would welcome Steve Abel to take his own call to make some contributions on the title, but I wanted to put that question first to the member in charge and would welcome his initial thoughts on it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022 data-id=\u002258f0dcdecab64fdeba3fa542d4eb0354\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258f0dcdecab64fdeba3fa542d4eb0354\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki):\u003C/span\u003E I have a few clauses I\u2019d like to ask the member in charge about, but I\u2019d also like to start with the title. I do want to focus on the word \u201CExcusal\u201D, but I come from maybe a slightly different angle. I worry that this just reinforces\u2014and I\u2019d be interested in the member\u2019s view\u2014a culture that we see permeating throughout our country of a lack of service. It\u2019s a frame of reference that this is \u201CWhat is the age of excusal? How can I get out of this? How can I avoid it?\u201D. Actually, this country is great because we were built up by people that contributed to their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI think about, for example, in Paraparaumu, the Rotary Club and the Lions Club\u2014people over the age of 65, and, indeed, over the age of 72\u2014and they\u2019ve just joined together to build a new mini-golf course. It\u2019s called Golf for Good, and it is going to be giving back to the community. It\u2019s not just providing something great for our community, but all the money raised goes back to the community, and on and on it goes. It\u2019s fantastic\u2014I can\u2019t wait to join them for the launch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bdb728d7bc454d4cae042f46ad324856\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: When you\u2019re 72.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243f4c07ceb26432bbf748802ad5fab80\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: This is a group of people who are giving to their community\u2014I didn\u2019t hear that, Madam Chair, and I\u2019m sure it was nothing to do with\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e1f77ea18ca4b38af513eaee61da7f1\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I said, \u201CWhen you\u2019re 72.\u201D You said, \u201CI can\u2019t wait to join them.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236d4e3ec4a2f427ab6a54498be312f61\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you may not be 72 yet, but you may be captured by this Act, Madam Chair. I just wonder\u2014here is a group of people that are giving to their community, yet where we see community breaking down in New Zealand is people who are not looking for a way to give but a way to avoid, a way to be excused, a way to not contribute. What message does it send if we\u2019re passing legislation\u2014albeit this is a change to actually bring more people in to the point at which they can serve, but the frame of reference when people look at this is all about excusal. It\u2019s about \u201CHow I can get out of it?\u201D. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003ENow, I accept that there may be, indeed, some legal references that the member is considering. There are the current provisions within the Act\u2014in sections 15 and 15A\u2014that use some of that language. Would we not be better to set the tone that we believe\u2014and certainly, on this side of the House, we believe\u2014in strong communities, in strong families and caring communities? Those are some of the values that the National Party is grounded in. Why would we not be setting something out that says this is about how we can include more people? How can we participate? How do we give back to our community? How do we value what it is that people over the age of 65 have to contribute?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI see, throughout my electorate, which is the electorate with the highest number of over-65s in the country, the value that it adds\u2014organisations like Volunteer K\u0101piti, that are saying, \u201CThis isn\u2019t a burden on our community; this is an amazing asset, as they help others, as we leverage the skills and the experience they have to contribute to our community.\u201D Is there not a way that we could highlight that, that we could celebrate that, that we could look at how we include more people? How do we value what it is that those that\u2014yep, they may have a SuperGold card, but that hasn\u2019t ruled them out from the sort of gold-medal service that we have seen from them in our community. It\u2019s something that I worry about, and this is important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EI look around the community, and I look at service organisations\u2014like Lions, like Rotary, like Altrusa, like even Probus and Rebus\u2014and the numbers that are slowly being whittled away, the people that used to regularly contribute to the community, to sports clubs, to churches, to organisations, and even to political parties. The breakdown of community we see because people of younger generations don\u2019t routinely want to give, and I worry that we breed a culture of people who are looking for \u201CHow do we get out of this? How do we avoid this?\u201D rather than \u201CWhat do we have to offer? How do we contribute?\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EIt may seem like a small point. It may seem, to some, like a pretty minor point or a naff point, but, actually, I think it speaks to the heart of the kind of community we want to have. We talk in New Zealand about superannuation and how we are going to afford it. I notice the discussion in countries like the United States is not \u201CHow do we afford it?\u201D but \u201CHow do we find opportunities for people over that age to work?\u201D, where they feel discriminated against. Again, it comes to that point that, actually, people over 65 have great value to contribute to our community, and I want to make sure that they are honoured, they are celebrated, they are valued, and they are able to contribute. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003EIt might be small, but it might be that changing just one or two words from \u201CAge of Excusal\u201D to \u201CIncluding More Seniors\u201D or to \u201CAppreciating Experience\u201D\u2014maybe that\u2019s a way that we could just set the tone that we\u2019re looking for. My question to the member is: has he considered the sort of negative or double negative perception that could be taken into that title, and would he consider one if we were to flip it on its head?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00220f8f73002ae14f62b4e5b8e1a7b3506f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220f8f73002ae14f62b4e5b8e1a7b3506f\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for giving me the opportunity this evening to bring this to the committee of the whole House. It has been a journey taking this bill through the process and having the opportunity\u2014as my colleague and friend, the member for the Bay of Plenty, Tom Rutherford, mentioned, this is the first time I\u2019m in the chair this evening to present this bill and answer questions, legitimate questions, that have been raised already about the title. We\u2019re at the beginning of the process, and I intend on responding to each of those as we go through and exploring some of these ideas, because I am open to constructive contributions from members about the bill as we go through the process this evening\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c243a2ee231040f7b79bc86c81e30f74\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: On both sides.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb64d37090b64deba4f340a153ebd1c3\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014from both sides. I\u2019m sure that my colleagues across the Chamber are taking the opportunity to consider, deeply, how they can contribute to the discussion this evening and ask some insightful and engaging questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe first part of the question this evening was around the name and whether the name \u201Cexcusal\u201D is an appropriate context, given, potentially, some of the challenges we\u2019re experiencing in New Zealand at the moment, even\u2014and I\u2019m not sure if the member was directly referencing the context of excusal, like excusal from a political party or excusal from the House, and the implications and the intentions of that\u2014maybe some of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225dc2ae87849d46d3a97ea58fe78f8697\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: If he was, he would have been wide of the bill. I assume he wasn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e65cb48f053b434bacf28b49e149a5d1\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that assumption is probably fair, Madam Chair. I won\u2019t assume that that was his sort of negative implication on the term \u201Cexcusal\u201D at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EBut I understand the intention or the question of adding a specific age into the bill. I think the challenge with adding a specific age\u201472 or 70, if there was to be amendment to the actual age during the committee of the whole House\u2014to the title could be that in times in the future, we\u2019re here in this Chamber again, having to go through this process again and not only update the age, because life expectancy is intended on continuing to grow, but we\u2019d have to change the title, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe first time that age was introduced into the excusal process of juries was in 1945. If you take the same time length to get to the point now where we\u2019re moving to 72\u2014the member from the Bay of Plenty will be sitting there in his 70s, and we will be updating the age of excusal to 75 or 80 or something like that in a few years\u2019 time. I\u2019m not sure if adding the specific age 72 into the title of the amendment bill would be appropriate. It could potentially include options, but, again, I think that would complicate and confuse the specific intention of the title.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI take, though, the member from \u014Ctaki, Tim Costley\u2019s point regarding excusal and the idea of service and the lack of service and the lack of intention and engagement that\u2019s permeating many organisations in New Zealand. If I think in my home electorate of Whanganui, which includes South Taranaki and Stratford, the Volunteer Whanganui Centre are very focused on the idea of service. I\u2019ve had the opportunity to go out and serve with them as part of National Volunteer Week last year and again this year, and the opportunity to acknowledge all the great volunteers that provide service. I appreciate the concern the member has about the negative connotation of the idea of exclusion and how we could potentially turn that around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that\u2019s intended by this amendment, as I said in both my first reading and second reading speech, is the need for a reminder to our community that this is a civic duty, and that civic duty doesn\u2019t end at 65. We\u2019ll get to this, no doubt, when questions are asked on the age a little bit later this evening. But for now, when we\u2019re talking about the context of the title, I think keeping the idea of excusal in there reflects the intent of the underlying legislation, which is that you have to go and be excused. If there is a member that wants to understand what some of the other reasons for excusal are, I\u2019m happy to share that in a few minutes\u2019 time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022 data-id=\u00221672c9ca2a994920a7fe814a8446dfaf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221672c9ca2a994920a7fe814a8446dfaf\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Look, I\u2019m looking forward to having a discussion with the member in charge, and I want to, again, thank him for getting the bill this far. One of the things I want to test with him\u2014this really goes across all of the sections of the bill. I mean, we could talk about the title, but it really does get to the substance. See, in ACT, we don\u2019t actually believe in discriminating people based on characteristics\u2014whether that\u2019s sex or gender, ethnicity, and, I dare say, age. One of the things I did explore in the select committee but I\u2019m very keen to explore it tonight is: is it appropriate to even discriminate on age at all? In ACT, we actually believe an individual, regardless of their characteristics and personal attributes, can make a contribution to society. In this case, what we\u2019re asking them to do, regardless of their age, this would be my view, is serve on a jury. I mean, we could, obviously, talk about the title, but, actually, this gets to the substance, where we\u2019re just literally replacing 65 years with 72 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EIn fact, my suggestion would actually deal with some of the other questions that other members have already asked tonight. Let\u2019s just get rid of the age altogether and actually have people judged on their ability to participate in the jury process. There are obviously\u2014if we go to the Juries Act 1981 and look at sections 15 and 15A\u2014other reasons people can be excused from jury duty, but would the member just actually consider getting rid of age? It does seem quite a discriminatory attribute. We have members in this House that are well over\u2014or not well, but they are over\u2014the age of 80, serving today. Some of them are Ministers and very competent. Again, I don\u2019t think we should be using age as an arbitrary\u2014look, I can understand it, potentially, in a bygone era when healthcare wasn\u2019t as good. Obviously, we now have interventions where people can live healthier lives and can retain all their cognitive functions. I think really what we\u2019re wanting is someone competent to serve on a jury. It does seem to me that having this age of 72 is a bit arbitrary. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EIn relation to both the substance of the bill and also the title, would the Minister\u2014member, sorry; not a Minister yet\u2014consider just getting rid of the age altogether and then just fall back to the other provisions in sections 15 and 15A of the Juries Act where the registrar can decide to excuse someone? I know one of the provisions in there is that they may be ill and frail, so that would seem to cover if you\u2019re of an advanced age and you can\u2019t actually carry out your duties, rather than just having this blanket age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ff775135e61c4e95af2c92c58bf12a52\u0022\u003EThe other thing I would note is that they must\u2014again, with you, obviously, changing the age, but if we go back to the primary Act\u2014excuse them. If someone, basically, says, \u201CI\u2019m of this age.\u201D, the registrar doesn\u2019t have any discretion. They actually do have discretions in some of the other reasons they might excuse someone. Again, they\u2019re the things I\u2019d like to have your response to, because we\u2019re about getting rid of discrimination in ACT. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022c2e21408f26342a8a26171dead6e5035\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c2e21408f26342a8a26171dead6e5035\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I ask the member to speak\u2014on a bill that\u2019s been taken as one part, I\u2019d like to congratulate that member on spotting the substance of the bill and getting to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00226236e4f1b93e49128ec284af9a9165e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226236e4f1b93e49128ec284af9a9165e2\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the focus on the substance of the bill. I\u2019m sure that there will be questions on why, ultimately, the age of 72 was chosen, given that I did reference, in both the first and second reading speeches, the range of options that were considered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EBut to focus on your specific question, at this stage, as to why there should be any age at all, it\u2019s interesting that this was something\u2014and you\u2019ll recall it was raised as part of the select committee process as one of the questions by, for example, the Christian Council of Social Services. They made the point specifically\u2014they said, \u201CWe suggest assessing if there is a need for this age of excusal at all, or whether the normal process of application for excusal on existing grounds is sufficient. If an older person wishes to be excused on one of the other grounds, specifically the health and disability option or the \u2018Other personal circumstances\u2019 option, then this would be more than sufficient to support the needs of older people who do [not] need to be excused for these reasons, not automatically assuming that all older people should want to be excused from service.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI think the member raises a very valid question. Certainly, when I engage with my grandparents\u2014I\u2019m very lucky to have three of my four grandparents still alive, and I\u2019m sure they will be watching this evening at home; hi Nana and Granddad and Grandma\u2014they are very competent at contributing to an engaged discussion. Of course they are; they have all their faculties about them. They voted for me, so that\u2019s a good start; that\u2019s a good indication that they\u2019ve got their faculties about them. There is a question to be asked as to whether or not age should be included at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EHowever, this evening I think it comes down to practical politics. I\u2019ve had indication from across the committee that there will be support for this bill going through the committee. I wouldn\u2019t want to change the dynamics. We\u2019ve already had, through the select committee process, Te P\u0101ti Tamihere\u2014sorry, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014indicate that they were going to support\u2014sorry, I\u2019m losing myself; Freudian slip\u2014the bill because it was a unanimous decision of the Justice Committee that this bill would be supported, and it was reported back to the House unanimously. I\u2019ve already lost the six votes\u2014or the three plus three or four plus two; whatever it is now\u2014I no longer have that support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022856be5a10905407399ea726528a481b9\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t know that, Mr Bates. We haven\u2019t taken a vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fec3d675501243099124b407e665e9da\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: They have indicated that to me, Chair, so I\u2019m of a reasonable understanding and confident that that is the case.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to be in a position where I lose further votes by introducing a new framing of having no age. I\u2019d invite the member to put in an amendment if his party is of that opinion and we could maybe debate that amendment. But I think, for the context of ensuring I retain the support of the committee this evening, I\u2019m not sure that we\u2019ll do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022 data-id=\u00222a0e51f9b81742f3aa4deb33f1035b08\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222a0e51f9b81742f3aa4deb33f1035b08\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I\u2019m so grateful for getting this opportunity to ask a question to my colleague\u2014my excellent colleague\u2014the phenomenal Carl Bates, the MP for Whanganui. Mr Bates, thank you very much. Thank you for the work that you\u2019ve done ever since your member\u2019s bill was pulled out of that biscuit tin. I\u2019ve seen the way that you vehemently fought for this. I\u2019ve said this in a few of my speeches\u2014that, yes, it may seem like a small change, but to a lot of people, in particular our elderly out there who are so filled with those pearls of wisdom, this means a lot to them that they can continue to contribute to the workings of the justice system with those pearls of wisdom that they are so enriched with. Thank you, Mr Bates. You really are a master in some situations like this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EWhat I\u2019d like to bring the attention of the committee to, Madam Chair and Mr Carl Bates, is that one thing I want to ask you about is\u2014because when I went through this process with my own member\u2019s bill, which I was very blessed was pulled out of the ballot early last year, the Corrections (Victim Protection) Amendment Bill, which is now an Act, we spoke, at the eleventh hour, about the commencement date. The commencement date was originally the day after Royal assent. If my colleagues across the Chamber do recall\u2014as I said, at the eleventh hour at the committee of the whole House stage, I put an amendment forward to change that from the day after Royal assent to six months. That was because, upon reflection and conversing more with the advisers from the Department of Corrections, we came to the realisation that Corrections would need more time to implement the small change with a great ripple effect. In turn, I reflect on the commencement date of the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill and how it says it\u2019s \u201Cthe day after Royal assent\u201D, and I was just wondering if there\u2019s any whakaaro around whether that could be or you would want to change that to a longer period of time, given what may be involved for the court system to implement this change?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003ENow, we know\u2014and I\u2019m so grateful to have you on the Justice Committee with me, alongside a number of my colleagues\u2014that there\u2019s the project that\u2019s going on right now, the Te Au Reka project, where the focus is on implementing a new digital case flow for filing and case management in our court systems. It\u2019s on its way. It\u2019s not quite there yet; there\u2019s still quite a way to go. I know\u2014as you would, because you\u2019ve got a very astute mind\u2014that when everything becomes more digitised and has more of a flow and connects to different organisations, as well, changes will be a lot easier to make. But in the meantime, the status quo is that it\u2019s not fully implemented, so I was wondering if the member did give any thoughts to the commencement date. Is saying that it\u2019s \u201Cthe day after Royal assent\u201D, in this situation, sufficient? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc18fca1517544d48a85a448eabd4308\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s quite a lot to unpack there, Mr Bates. If we think about the court registrars, no doubt, they would know that this is in the parliamentary process; I\u2019m sure that they\u2019ve got their ears on the ground in regard to that. But I do wonder, does there also need to be some movement and some time given so that it could, as we say, have that go across all the different organisations that this change needs to go\u2014I\u2019m thinking about things like our Grey Power, our senior citizens clubs. I\u2019d love the member to let me know if there\u2019s been any thought about that\u2014and the secondary thought: will he be putting an amendment down on the Table about changing the commencement date?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00223f7fe7db573c4223a887b8ed95d4fb55\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f7fe7db573c4223a887b8ed95d4fb55\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Thank you, Rima Nakhle, for your question and your focus on an important point, which is about implementation. I\u2019m surprised\u2014well, I\u2019m not really surprised that it is the National Party member that has raised implementation and ensuring effective implementation, because we haven\u2019t heard it from anywhere else in the committee. We\u2019ve heard it from the Government bench, and I appreciate a question focused on effective implementation, because at the end of the day, if we create laws and they aren\u2019t effective and they\u2019re not able to be implemented, then that does create a problem. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI appreciate the question, and you\u2019ve reminded me of the importance of acknowledging the staff at Auckland High Court, where I visited, along with Minister Goldsmith, where this idea first came up, because it is a good opportunity to remind the committee that this bill came out of a discussion with the front line. So often we are challenged as members of Parliament for having ideas that haven\u2019t come from the front line, and this was literally from the front line. I happened to be on crutches at the time, so I was hopping along the front line and got this idea from them and really have taken it on board and shepherded it through. I appreciate the member\u2019s recognition of the fight it takes to guide a bill through the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI specifically made a point of engaging with Rawiri Waititi regarding the support of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori about this bill. I was given their support for it, and I\u2019m really disappointed that while they unanimously supported this at the select committee, at second reading they voted against it. I was hoping, with some of their changes in membership, I might have been able to get some support from their ex-members, but, apparently, that\u2019s not going to be the case. However, I will continue the fight, despite some of those challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to the commencement date and your implementation question, I had the assurance of the Ministry of Justice that they have confirmed their readiness and that they are able to update their summons material and systems in order to implement this change quickly, effectively. Therefore, the commencement date of the bill is not going to be an issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave my response at this point, because I\u2019m sure the member will ask about the transition arrangements, which are slightly different to the date at which commencement occurs of the bill, which, as you\u2019ve rightly pointed out, is the day after Royal assent. Quite looking forward to, actually, that day that it gets Royal assent, and looking forward to that notification.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022 data-id=\u002206c9855e0b8c426ca226c76f44faf0a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206c9855e0b8c426ca226c76f44faf0a8\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. Firstly, I want to commend the member Carl Bates for the hard work he\u2019s done to bring the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill through the parliamentary process. Mr Bates, the bill appears to be well researched. It\u2019s based on something that people have been asking: why can\u2019t older people serve on juries? It represents a good example of members of the Government side of the committee identifying a problem and a policy solution, taking responsibility for delivering that policy solution, developing legislation, and here we are this evening. To all of those listening and watching at home, or in the cab of your truck, if you\u2019re out there on the State highways, I just want to let you know that Carl Bates, today, is expressing the spirit of all Government parties, in that fixing what matters is what we are here to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ENow, Mr Bates, I want to ask you a couple of questions, and some of them are based on my personal experience, having served on a jury. That was on a very complex, very difficult trial that involved a case where, it would be fair to say, some horrendous things happened to people in our society. The victims of certain crimes often feel it\u2019s very challenging to come to court and to present their evidence. One of the things I\u2019m concerned about\u2014and I have a question for you\u2014is about when people come to court and they have to give evidence, sometimes, the way they describe experiences, whether they\u2019re a victim, whether they\u2019re a witness, or whether they\u2019re a defendant, they often use lingo, street jive, or slang\u2014the kind of thing that comes up if you watch some kind of TV programmes, you know, NCIS or some of these other crime dramas\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223b6a2393767c435fa636f2ac5f1b13a1\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s N-C-I-S.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f7ddf5f3ab44ba0b8ac9c9b5462bb72\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: NCIS. I\u2019m an engineer; it\u2019s got to be an acronym. To the honourable member Mr Bates, how do we expect older jurors to understand lingo, street jive, and slang without some kind of\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd5411381b14417aa8c60cbeaac395e0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I was wondering where the point of this question was getting to\u2014you got there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baef72b773944fd383800173093aa79c\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect courts to support older jurors with some kind of dictionary or some kind of explainer or FAQ sheet about what all these terms mean when they come up? I mean, I won\u2019t give away my age\u2014some of you might assume I\u2019m in my forties, and I\u2019d accept that today\u2014but even I struggle to understand some of the language used in my own home by my children in their teens and twenties. I can\u2019t imagine what a struggle it would be by the time I get into my sixties, seventies\u2014up to the age of 72\u2014to deal with this. One question: how does he expect the courts to support older jurors with understanding the lingo? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003ESecondly, what about the tiring\u2014emotionally and physically tiring\u2014effort that jurors put in? What I remember is turning up to be selected at about 8.30 in the morning, eventually being selected and being briefed, and sometime later that afternoon, closer to 5 p.m., finally being released, with not a lot of an idea about whether I needed to bring a packed lunch or a water bottle or some other type of thing to keep me going throughout the day. That went on for weeks after the initial briefing and impoundment onto a jury\u2014so I\u2019m interested.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003EOlder people are living older, longer, but better lives. But still, older bodies need more maintenance; they need asset renewal, pit stops, breaks done, filter changes. Will courts be ready to support older jurors, such as with more regular breaks, and actually provide more flexibility so that older jurors can participate in what are very long, very emotionally and physically stressful days, hearing what is often very disturbing testimony from victims and witnesses and family members? While my questions might appear to be a touch of brevity, these are serious matters, and I look forward to the member addressing them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u002274c5725b16e8407382c7b3ddd15df945\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274c5725b16e8407382c7b3ddd15df945\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you for the questions. I appreciate even that one of the questions might have been asked in a way that actually enables me to highlight one of the key misunderstandings about the age of excusal when it comes to jury duties. Often, there is a perception across the country that when you hit 65, you are no longer required to serve, and that no one over the age of 65 serves on juries. That would lead to a number of the members\u2019 questions being even more important, if we actually had no one over the age of 65 currently serving on juries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to just quote from my opening remarks to the Justice Committee. I want to acknowledge the members of the Justice Committee who are here this evening, who went through this process and were really engaged in making sure we created a good piece of legislation that solved the problem. I want to acknowledge the honourable Simon Court for his contribution to helping create this clarity for all of those listening at home this evening. And it says\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eac64d070f64ab4b93bc75acf08fcd9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022785799b52c7043869b4cbb1505cd4e8a\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: Or in their truck.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227606f0b84f2a44ca9717257cdeec0d3f\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014\u201CThis is not about\u201D\u2014or in the truck. Or in the truck\u2014or on \u201CThe Facebook\u201D, as my nana calls it. You know, she is up with the slang. She calls it \u201CThe Facebook\u201D, but it\u2019s all the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u201CThis is not about introducing age into the jury system. That already exists. Currently, anyone above the age of 65 can request automatic excusal from jury duty, either permanently or just for that particular case, and that request is granted without question. The bill simply raises the age of automatic excusal to 72. It doesn\u2019t mean that you can\u2019t serve if you\u2019re older than 65 currently, and 72 once this bill has completed its shepherding through the House. What it does mean is that if you choose to ask for automatic excusal, either for that occasion or permanently, that will be granted without question. So what that means\u201D\u2014and it\u2019s important to clarify this point\u2014\u201Cis that you can serve on the jury, currently, past the age of 65. In fact, many do. But the automatic opt out creates confusion, and worse, a cultural expectation that once you hit 65, you\u2019ve done your bit and you don\u2019t need to serve. That is not a view that I support.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EWhen we have that understanding that we already have jurors who are over the age of 65, our courts are already managing some of those challenges that the member raises about potential fatigue, about ensuring appropriate breaks, and about the make-up of people in the jury itself\u2014which I suppose is part of the answer to the question about slang.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EOne of the great things about jury duty is that a jury is a combination or a collection of our peers. It\u2019s a cross-section of society. In the jury room, you may have a 72-year-old who\u2019s worked in trucks all his or her life and got life experience on the road. You might have a lawyer from K\u0101piti\u2014from the mighty Tim Costley\u2019s electorate\u2014who\u2019s only ever worked in an office or an office from home and doesn\u2019t necessarily understand the concept of manual labour. Then, you might have someone from down South who is off farm and has got a different perspective on life and has a different vocabulary that comes with being a Southerner. I just want to acknowledge our Minister for the South Island, here, who I\u2019m sure will appreciate the fact that there are differences in our islands and, therefore, vocabulary that people bring to the table. That collection of individuals in the jury room will help with that understanding and be able to teach each other.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EYou know, one of my favourite programmes on TV at the moment is a series: 12\u2014or The Twelve, it might be called, but 12 all the same. It sort of follows those on the jury through the life that goes on around jury duty and jury service. I think that that is one of the ways that we can appreciate that as a jury, they will help each other understand the language in the particular case that is going through the court at that particular time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EMadam Chair, I have one final point I want to make, if you\u2019ll give me a little longer to make it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ddcdcc1daec4b7493ea6bc1e0a3dcfa\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll give you seven seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c787713014b9463581618bd776e5408c\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. It\u2019s related to understanding different vocabulary and being connected to your community. I just wanted to\u2014Madam Chair, very quickly. I just wanted to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222799ee9e71e4412dacd1ce966dc47475\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Chair?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226406058d16e472891a720967d828149\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014the member\u2019s still on his feet. His seven seconds are up, so be quick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3e251b3efc40a1b41c6b8183c55b8d\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: For those of us on the Government side, many of us are electorate members of Parliament, which means we\u2019re very engaged in our community and we meet people across our community\u2014another way that helps us keep up to date with the different language. I\u2019m sure many people on juries are engaged across the community in the same way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u002238bc5928c6ef4f318340d839106f5e5a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238bc5928c6ef4f318340d839106f5e5a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Grant McCallum\u2014I can see you\u2019ve got a brand new question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022 data-id=\u00227ea1e4757c0f4c61b3a0f54a532f4cc4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ea1e4757c0f4c61b3a0f54a532f4cc4\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM (National\u2014Northland):\u003C/span\u003E I\u2019ve got a very brand new question, Madam Chair\u2014thank you very much. It\u2019s about time we brought some wisdom to this debate, because that has been distinctly lacking up till now. Some of my junior colleagues\u2014in fact, I think that is everybody\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022519d6dc608c64c79aba1420bb8d4dfa8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aa570b0ef644b3fa7188f0d2f315506\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: All of us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221410d17cb5c042caa83823b8bf30c18a\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014are coming at it from the wrong angle, I feel. The question I simply have is: when you were looking at the age you were picking here, you settled on 72, and I begin to wonder, why that? Why did you settle there? Why not go a lot higher? For example, I\u2019ve been well and truly led to believe that there was a senator in America who was 100 years old. Why couldn\u2019t you take it to that level of age? These people have wisdom\u2014real wisdom.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s one area that you haven\u2019t really addressed\u2014you haven\u2019t really, really addressed; that\u2019s a challenge\u2014which is, actually, did you consider at any stage a minimum age? Did you consider what the minimum age should be? I just do wonder whether it needs to be set a little bit higher. I just want to remind myself again how old the member for Bay of Plenty is\u2014I would make it about five years older than that. That would be about right! That would make it about 40. If we made the minimum age 40, I just think we would get more wisdom on the jury, and we would actually get better decisions. I just wondered if you\u2019d actually considered that, Mr Bates. I just think that\u2019s really important to look at. I just think you should have a minimum age of around 40, maybe a bit higher, because then you\u2019d get people with real life experiences. I just feel that has been lacking in this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EWe really need to look at it, because I do worry about some of the rather interesting angles that have been taken by junior colleagues here, and I just think they\u2019ve shown up their level of immaturity in this space. Particularly some of the members from\u2014the member from Bay of Plenty, I suspect, might want to give consideration in that space. We have some very good members here who would actually do a good job, but I just wonder, then, if maybe we need to move that up a bit. At the upper end, I do worry. I just kind of feel\u2014speaking as someone who\u2019s sort of entering their 60s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d9e00707c6c45d3a820892a190748c7\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Entering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022162757e5a2084afcb9691f974e602490\u0022\u003EGRANT McCALLUM\u003C/span\u003E: That is correct\u2014entering their 60s. I just feel I\u2019m reaching my peak of life and my peak of knowledge and contribution, and I could really actually demonstrate real, considerable contribution to a jury. You\u2019ve got to have that jury of your peers, as they say it, and have the ability to sit there and concentrate. Some of us did not grow up with screens, so we can actually sit and concentrate without having a screen. We don\u2019t need bans\u2014we don\u2019t need bans for under-16s and that sort of stuff to worry about\u2014we can actually just go in there and concentrate and go through the evidence and bring that level of wisdom and experience that I feel some younger people would struggle with. We could really add value in the jury space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229a9c205f95fc4f5c8943b440b9f5cb1d\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really interested to hear why you didn\u2019t consider a much higher upper age and actually bringing in a lower age. I just think that would add real value to this whole debate, and I do reserve the right of reply if more flak comes in this direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u0022b2d2e02f9fad450793e2b039939867e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b2d2e02f9fad450793e2b039939867e8\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, for the opportunity to respond, quickly, and then, I understand, there\u2019s going to be some more questions. I\u2019m already seeing some interest there. I just want to acknowledge and respect\u2014I was always taught to respect my elders, so thank you, the MP for Northland, Grant McCallum, for your question. I\u2019m not sure that we considered 100. We did consider 75, which would be the age of 70, the retirement of judges, plus five, because they can have their term extended for five years. That would have been one option. Seventy-two is the age of retirement of the Ombudsman, which is why we, ultimately, I think, went with the age of 72. In England and Wales, they have an upper limit of 76 in jury duty; Scotland has the age of 71. My son Angus would appreciate it if we went with the Scottish 71, given his ancestral links back to Scotland. I regularly meet with constituents over the age of 65 who are in the workforce, and so that was why 65 was, clearly, not appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EOn the question whether there was a minimum age, I would imagine there would be questions from the other side of the Chamber if we were to touch on ages at a minimum age. I think the contributions made by the youngsters like the likes of the member from the Bay of Plenty, Tom Rutherford, was really valuable in terms of supporting and asking some questions around the title and the context of excusal. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThere were some questions from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori in the second reading, actually, when it comes to who should and shouldn\u2019t be involved in jury duty about whether or not that this was anti particular demographics in New Zealand. I haven\u2019t had a question from them this evening to explore those ideas. It would have been a good opportunity for them to ask those questions, had they genuinely believed that this wasn\u2019t fair and reasonable across the board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225544c2bced7b453fb54164e3b97b657a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: The member should not be using his time in the chair to be having comments about other parties in the Parliament. Just answer the questions. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db259b7ecdf445868a8ceda1d37d2e22\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: Fair enough, Chair. I was just keen to explore that question, because I thought it was an important one to debunk, if you like, had I had the opportunity. But, that said, I will leave that contribution there. An age of 100 would not be appropriate, and I think a minimum age was outside the scope of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbc4d4a4856840699d813c39ac947ed0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbc4d4a4856840699d813c39ac947ed0\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to take a call from Cameron Luxton. So far the questions have largely been different. There\u2019s not much left to ask. Also, the committee stage is designed to ask questions, not take five-minute speeches. This is not directed at this member, just at the general context of the conversation, because I think there\u2019ll be a lot of 65-year-olds out there wondering if this little bill will be passed by the time they\u2019re 72.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022 data-id=\u00227f5c53a1496d4ae580599b3bc35eb2dc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227f5c53a1496d4ae580599b3bc35eb2dc\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT):\u003C/span\u003E Madam Chair, thank you. I appreciate the opportunity to have a contribution, because I have got a substantive and new question I hope to explore with the member in charge. Mr Bates has done a great job, as has been pointed out and elucidated, of finding an issue and bringing it to this House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t want to retread old ground that other members have made contributions on, and it has to be said that the member in the chair does deserve to be complimented on his ability to engage with every contribution. It\u2019s been quite an impressive thing to watch and an example to others in this Chamber to emulate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EI have a few questions that have popped up, but the one that I wanted to ask that I don\u2019t think has been touched on prior to this is did the member explore or did the committee explore having incremental age increases for the age of excusal? I mean, if you would have increased the age by, say, three months a year, how would that work? I mean, just quickly on the back of the envelope, I think if we started now with, say, three months a year, the age of excusal would increase\u2014by 2054, it would be a full 72-year-old. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EIf he\u2019s explored that route, did he try other incremental expansions such as maybe four months? That would lead to 2047. If 2054 was too early to get to that limit, did he look at maybe not setting an upper limit by default by making it 72 and perhaps having an incremental two months, three months, four months a year increase beyond 72 so that Parliament doesn\u2019t have to come back and deeply explore these issues again? I\u2019m glad that they\u2019re being traversed in the committee tonight, but, say, in a few years\u2019 time, when New Zealanders\u2019 age demographics balloon at the upper end of life and we enjoy the company and the contribution of more over-65s and, indeed, over - 72-year-olds\u2014when that day comes, will we be able to properly get use of that knowledge, that skill, that contribution to society and life experience and common sense and experience, as the member for Northland put into the Chamber in his contribution? Would it be prudent, do you think, Mr Bates, to put in an incremental increase past the age of 72?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThen, while I have this call, because I understand you do want us to be moving along\u2014that\u2019s one question. The second question that I had was in your explorations, Mr Bates, and mastery of this issue from issues around the world, you\u2019ve mentioned Scotland and a few other countries\u2014you said there was an upper limit on age. I want to just understand, because is that an upper limit on jury duty service and did that influence your thinking, or was that an upper limit on the age of excusal? It is a vastly different thing that people need to understand\u2014that you can have the automatic excusal over 65 and use that up to 72 if your bill was to pass tonight, which all indications say it will. But if we were going to follow the best practice around the world and what\u2019s been tried overseas, are those hard limits on jury service or are they hard limits on the age of excusal? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EIt was interesting to hear about the cultural expectations of our older citizens. Mr Bates, have you had a chance to explore the impacts of having that sort of experience, that age on juries? I know we\u2019re speculating on what will happen, but has there ever been any reports that you might have seen come out of our university institutions, our law societies, legal fraternity talking about what sort of contributions different age demographics actually give to society?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EThere are a few things. There\u2019s the incremental increase in age, talking about overseas experience, upper limits versus limits on excusal, and the cultural input that different demographics have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002281a465eb20294645bc63efa635c80cbf\u0022\u003EFinally, since I think this might be my last call, I would just like to say hello\u2014sorry for taking the committee\u2019s time\u2014to my grandfather, who I don\u2019t think has got many days left, Stanley Gib Luxton. Love you, man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u00224a93c53f4fba4f3ebdc2905d060783fa\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224a93c53f4fba4f3ebdc2905d060783fa\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. I just want to acknowledge what you\u2019ve shared with the committee there, Cameron. My thoughts are with you guys through that process. I know what it\u2019s like in those final days and just heart and prayers with you guys.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EWhen it comes to your three questions, thank you for the intellectually stimulating questions you\u2019ve brought to the Chamber this evening around the bill. I think this idea that you\u2019ve raised for the first time through this process that I\u2019ve shepherded this bill through the Justice Committee and through this House\u2014this idea of incremental age expansion or increase over time. There are other things in the House that this House sets policy for that I would be very keen to see regularly adjusted\u2014inflation adjusted, even.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EBut when it comes to the point you make, over the next 25 years, essentially, it would take it three months to get to 2050, to get to 72. The challenge would be, over that period of time, if you take the last 25 years\u2014so if you take the period 2000 to 2025, being the last 25-year block. Then you\u2019re referring to the next 25-year block. To the last 25-year block\u20142000 to 2025\u2014there has been an increase in the average age of 3.5 years. If we were to simulate your example forward to 2050, we would need to, essentially\u2014if you assume that average age increases correlate with an increase in cognitive ability, age for age likeness, etc.\u2014get the age of excusal in 2050 to 75.5 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EIf we were to take your suggestion and have an automatic increase now, as is proposed by the bill, to 72, that would provide an opportunity maybe for you to come in with a member\u2019s bill that introduced the idea of beginning that incremental increase now so that when we hit 2050, we are at that 75.5 point. I think it creates a mechanism that might be more complicated to manage and for organisations to understand where it\u2019s at, but it might be that it\u2019s pretty simple for the Ministry of Justice to administer. Essentially, if you get the summons, you get the summons, and if you don\u2019t, you don\u2019t. It could work pretty easily, but I think that there\u2019s an opportunity for us to today reset the age, given it hasn\u2019t been changed since 1983\u2014was the last time we looked at this\u2014to 72 and then introduce that incremental opportunity, as you\u2019ve raised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe second question that you\u2019ve brought to the table is around the expectation. Now, Lawrence Xu-Nan explored this on behalf of the Green Party, who had a concern around this question and how a potential change in the average age of juries could change the role of juries in trial and how they might come to decisions based on having a different demographic or more prevalent demographic being present in those jury trials. Through that select committee process\u2014and he just reminded me, I\u2019m sure he won\u2019t mind me sharing it with the committee, before the committee of the whole House began this evening, that those concerns were completely alleviated through the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EIndeed, what the submissions and the questions and the feedback from the departmental report did was remind us that it\u2019s not our place to judge juries\u2019 determination of how they come to their answer. It\u2019s not our job to say if there are more women on a jury, is that going to sway the way the jury votes? If there are more men on the jury, is that going to change the way they determine if someone is guilty or not guilty? That is not the question before us and in front of the House this evening. The question simply is: is it appropriate for someone at the age of 65 to say, \u201CBecause I\u2019m 65, I don\u2019t need to do or deliver my civic duty of serving on a jury\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI think we traversed that question through the select committee process. We got to a point where unanimously\u2014and I remind the committee again this evening that, unanimously, the Justice Committee returned this to the House, and then, obviously, there has been a series of changes in the membership of the House since then that have changed that outcome. But we did address this question and, I think, came to a good conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022 data-id=\u002265f45a61822e444390aef68ad39afe00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265f45a61822e444390aef68ad39afe00\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229c7fcd25a07d4796ac07222520b6abda\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: I was looking for someone who hadn\u2019t taken a call yet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9ed0b690d4448b6bb79898aa5ff429c\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019d like to thank the member for getting this bill so far\u2014congratulations. I\u2019ve just got one basic question: what happens to a juror who at the start of the jury proceedings is 71 but turns 72 during the trial? Has the committee considered what that means and what that means in this bill? Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022976678fdcafb404396fa7c85845db074\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022976678fdcafb404396fa7c85845db074\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: What I was going to commend that member on is just simply getting up and asking a question and not making a five-minute speech!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u002280ccd7bd5a7949e79f4dc54713a8eb1f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280ccd7bd5a7949e79f4dc54713a8eb1f\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair, and I won\u2019t give a fiveminute answer to this question, because I know that there are other questions that want to be asked. It\u2019s actually a really important question, and it was considered as part of the select committee process around the transitional arrangements. I want to acknowledge the select committee for actually improving the bill through the select committee process by addressing this point. The age you are at the point the summons is issued is the age that is relevant here. If, during jury duty, you turn 72\u2014and I\u2019m sure you\u2019re not asking about this in your case, but if your constituent or the person you were thinking of was 71 turning 72\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d4137ef6b6b841e2ac62e8c46367ec05\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280998cfd051b4778bcdf14d2e8b07ed4\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: Asking for a friend. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2077b2c2d1240e592863ab691c47d7e\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014asking for a friend\u2014during jury duty, that would not mean that they could say, \u201CHey, I\u2019m 72 now. Can I be excused?\u201D and get automatic excusal. No, it\u2019s at the point that the summons is issued that the age is important. I think that that\u2019s a clear answer, and we addressed it as part of the select committee process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6a41d4a73f740a781a0802ba8cde5f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6a41d4a73f740a781a0802ba8cde5f7\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eac32f149d894fa0ac22ecceb7393316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9f76662a8ef48648f82208f249b3598\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: He always goes first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e436dd972f8d4485b16bbdb11f4597de\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: You went first last time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226167ab66023543ee86a8a656571c7d63\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Age before beauty, Madam Chair! But it\u2019s both in this case. My question relates to clauses 4 and 5, and it\u2019s around the grounds for excusal. I don\u2019t feel like we have traversed this part around the grounds that people actually use for excusal at all. We\u2019ve talked about the age component of it, but we actually haven\u2019t talked about the rationale that people use when they write back to their summons to say they are looking for excusal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EWhat are the grounds for excusal from jury service, and how frequently do we know that they are used, compared to, say, the age-based excusal? In Mr Bates\u2019 member\u2019s bill, we\u2019ve got the age-based excusal moving from 65 to 72, but what actually are other grounds for excusal from jury service, and how frequently are they used compared to age-based excusal? Does the member think there is public awareness around those options as well? How many people know about the age of excusal component to begin with but also the other excusal options they have for not accepting the summons and not turning up to do their jury duty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EMy other question is: how does the bill ensure that older people who wish to be excused, whether it\u2019s for health or for personal reasons, can still do so with this change? Are there things like permanent excusal provisions? For example, if I get a summons after this law change comes in and I\u2019m 68 years old and I apply and I get an excusal or whatever, or if I\u2019m 74 or 75 and I put the excusal in, whatever the situation may be, is that permanent or is that just based on that one summons, and is it likely that I may, in a year\u2019s time or in a couple of years\u2019 time, get another summons?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EIs the excusal that the member of the public uses permanent? Does it last? If it does last, how long does it last for? If it doesn\u2019t, then is it expected that those people might receive another summons at another near point in time? Is that for the registrar to consider when sending out the summons? I\u2019d just like some clarity around that and also around the grounds for excusal and how frequently they are used compared to age-based excusal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EThe member made a comment on whether the changes in the bill might result in more applications for excusal on other grounds and how that might affect court administration. We talked slightly in the commencement process around the administrative changes and whether the courts and the Ministry of Justice were prepared for this legislation and what the implementation would look like. But we haven\u2019t talked about what may be the effects on court administration more generally. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ef044682c0bd4c8885c626cbc9acb678\u0022\u003EWill the removal of, say, automatic excusal at 65 shift burden to other categories? Did the member get the opportunity to talk with the ministry about modelling to get an understanding from them around what implications this change may well have on them and whether they would be in favour of it, and whether they might think that this would likely result in more applications for excusal on other grounds? I\u2019m keen to understand. There are quite a few questions there relating to sections 15 and 15A, in clauses 4 and 5 respectively. I\u2019d welcome the member\u2019s thoughts, please.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce13d1bf0dca4bb2a5d12091d1dd6925\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce13d1bf0dca4bb2a5d12091d1dd6925\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you very much to the member for the questions, and I just actually want to go back first to Cameron Luxton\u2019s question. There was part of it that I didn\u2019t answer about the upper limit. The upper limits I was referring to in Scotland and Wales were for permanent excusal, in that people are not allowed to serve on a jury above those ages in those jurisdictions. It\u2019s not excusal in the context here in New Zealand where you can choose not to and get excused; it\u2019s that you\u2019re not allowed to serve on jury duty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EI did hear from Arena Williams before a question of whether or not she could be excused. I think she was referring to her duty in the House. I\u2019m not sure the answer to that question. That\u2019s a question for the whips in the Labour Party. But I am going to help answer what you can be excused for in terms of a jury duty because of the question from Tom Rutherford. Happy to come and do a workshop in anyone\u2019s electorate so that constituents, like your constituents, understand the answer to this question. But there are a variety of reasons\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e515ef81cc94d56a67146e9f6dc016a\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: We need to pass the bill first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1f73da886a9460ca01549640e23d307\u0022\u003ECARL BATES\u003C/span\u003E: There are a variety of reasons for why someone can be excused from a jury duty. They include family commitments\u2014something that the member from the Bay of Plenty, Tom Rutherford, is going to learn in the journey that he\u2019s going on; health; occupation or business; personal circumstances; physical disability\u2014if you\u2019ve got a physical disability that prohibits your ability to effectively engage in your duty as a juror, then you can be excused; previous excusal. Religious belief is a reason that jurors can get excused from jury duty and service in the last two years. Now, agebased excusals made up 39 to 42 percent, depending on the month, of all excusals. A large portion, 39 to 42 percent of excusals were age-based excusals. I think that that\u2019s important to recognise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022213cb30b7980463cb4430596b6ffa295\u0022\u003EThe supplementary question that the member asked was around whether or not those other reasons for excusal\u2014health, personal circumstances, disability\u2014can lead to permanent excusal. Now, the answer to that question is yes. If you have a particular health condition, a disability\u2014say, for example, maybe someone like my dad, who is, following a major stroke, unable to engage in asking questions and would find that difficult, then he could get permanent excusal from jury duty under the current scenario.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022 data-id=\u0022466bc48be0b5489ab4f0d7f02d45b1c5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022466bc48be0b5489ab4f0d7f02d45b1c5\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing):\u003C/span\u003E Thank you, Madam Chair. It\u2019s great to be able to take a two- or three-minute contribution to bring us home tonight. I just wanted to make a brief contribution around this last point around excusals and the types of individuals who can both apply for excusals and deferrals. I think it raises an important point about the purpose of juries. Fundamentally, from a philosophical perspective, it\u2019s supposed to be a jury of your peers\u2014that\u2019s pee-r-s, Catherine Wedd, not the fruit bowl kind. It\u2019s raising the point that if it is truly supposed to be a jury of your peers. We have a range of excusals that are able to be given. That is age. You can be excused for illness, hardship, and disability. You can be excused for your religious belief, public duty, or if you can\u2019t even access the courtroom because the courtroom\u2019s not set up for wheelchair access, you can be excused from jury duty. You can be temporarily relieved from serving and put off for another time if you are in the middle of harvest or if you undertake caregiving duties or if you are facing exams. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003ENow, all of those things limit the jury-of-your-peers concept, because, all of a sudden, you have a range of people with a range of characteristics that are more commonly excused or not part of juries to the point where you have to question whether or not juries truly remain a group of your peers. It raises a point that I wanted to just very quickly raise: if it no longer is a jury of your peers, at what point do we look at a system where we change it slightly to, perhaps, a sort of semi-professional jury selection pool? I know there are huge amounts of time and resource costs that go into selecting juries that go into serving on a jury, and I think that could be a solution that\u2019s in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223fa71773cda24d3da2773c797fbba84e\u0022\u003EJust before I take my seat, I\u2019d just like to pass on all my best to Ivan from the Chamber staff, who today is celebrating five years of service here. Congratulations, Ivan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef8a1ea365234a44a728dafe3db3112c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef8a1ea365234a44a728dafe3db3112c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Well done, Ivan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca id=\u002260e4ae900f01475cbca09647d1003256\u0022 name=\u0022division\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, That clauses 1 to 6 and the Schedule be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAyes 117\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENoes 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClauses 1 to 6 and the Schedule agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000785\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000786\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022 data-id=\u00222100e49227d24185982d0b3289063229\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222100e49227d24185982d0b3289063229\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, the committee has considered the Juries (Age of Excusal) Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. Madam Speaker, I move, That the report be adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b05298d233114114a3080f0d123f4b7c\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220ab3e386fbfb44c49bbec5f12dcce26f\u0022\u003EAmended Answers to Oral Questions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225090a505e51e4c378c05afd3a50cadb2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1 to Member\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022 data-id=\u002219eb155705b34d5898c93e43ec074dc2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220ae7a20755f94708a37076c1002b38e1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002219eb155705b34d5898c93e43ec074dc2\u0022\u003ECATHERINE WEDD (Chairperson of the Environment Committee):\u003C/span\u003E Point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer from question time today. I said 10 October; I meant to say 10 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022 data-id=\u00221349f681f67244c38e50bc90f2507031\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221349f681f67244c38e50bc90f2507031\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, everyone. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20251112659783648fce4e58824ce5b94cc6cba4000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b546dbe94a7c480c8a38a626c514de60\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"