"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a50d2cc1f1b3ac0549d94a63bd5f17c\u0022\u003ETuesday, 3 March 2026\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EThe Speaker\u003C/span\u003E took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a39b05be0047d71cd0b62fca8fa9614e\u0022\u003EStart of Sitting Day\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e974d09e9a52563c60d72a49b06f522e\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002271d2dd8e808dbba8328feface03ccfa7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002271d2dd8e808dbba8328feface03ccfa7\u0022\u003EBARBARA KURIGER (Deputy Speaker) (14:00)\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and the peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002278bf26488785df23e3392f46c8b15ef2\u0022\u003EMotions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223745b38f46e181eec7a03d692102a1c3\u0022\u003EMiddle East\u2014Conflict\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u0022fca916618955038013b8626d72f35bf4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fca916618955038013b8626d72f35bf4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to move a motion without notice regarding the current conflict in the Middle East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3cae713b4e2d1713258aafefabe9c09\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any objection to that course of action being followed? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ede98a1fabb1785c7ae20b852a76950a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat this House express its concern at the escalating conflict in the Middle East, that it deplores civilian casualties, and calls on all parties to respect international law, and that it calls for a diplomatic process in the deescalation of activities\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJust three nights ago the United States and Israel commenced military operations against Iran; actions that New Zealand has had no part in, but actions that are designed to prevent Iran from continuing to gravely threaten international peace and security. My first instinct is for those immediately affected: the brave people of Iran who have lived for so long under the yoke of repression, and some of whom are now, all too sadly, the innocent civilian victims of war; those living in the Gulf countries who are now living under fear and intimidation from Iran\u2019s indiscriminate retaliatory attacks; New Zealand families worrying about loved ones living in Iran, or other parts of the region; and Kiwis living in or moving through the region, who now face enormous uncertainty. They are all in my thoughts, as I\u2019m sure they are for everyone in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand\u2019s perspective on Iran has been consistent for decades and through successive Governments. The country is ruled by an evil regime. One that has directly menaced peace and security. One that has claimed countless lives in Iran and internationally. One that has, for decades, called for the destruction of the United States and Israel. For most of my life, Iran\u2019s proxy groups, whether Hezbollah, Hamas or Houthis, have sowed discord and terrorism across the Middle East and beyond, killing and maiming civilians\u2014destabilising the region. It\u2019s not just Iran\u2019s proxy groups, but the regime itself has destabilised the region. It has been more than two decades since Iran\u2019s nuclear programme was exposed and New Zealand began demanding that Tehran comply with its nuclear non-proliferation obligations\u2014it still has not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThrough diplomacy, Iran has been presented with multiple opportunities to dismantle its nuclear programme and end its support for those terrorist proxy groups; it has chosen not to heed those calls. The Iranian regime denies its people the ability to live free from fear of their own Government. It was in 2022 that the New Zealand Government again reset our engagement with Iran, after Mahsa Amini died at the hands of the regime\u2019s police. She was fatally beaten for failing to wear her hijab in accordance with Government regulations. Just as they did then, we\u2019ve seen the people of Iran take to the streets, again, this year, to demand change, only to be met by the ruthless violence and murder of this regime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJust last week, the Minister of Foreign Affairs announced further measures against 40 members of the Iranian regime implicated in the recent brutal killing of tens of thousands of protesters. So our position as a country has been enduringly clear: we have long supported actions to prevent Iran from undertaking a ballistic missile and nuclear programme that flouts international law, supporting terrorist organisations in the Middle East and further afield, and perpetrating acts of brutal violence, murder, and repression against its own people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge that there are different views on the legitimacy of the actions taken by the US and Israel. I respect those views and the vigour with which they have been offered. New Zealand, unlike Iran, is a flourishing democracy, but, surely, there can be no doubt about the importance to all of us of preventing Iran from continuing on its pathway of repression, State-sponsored terrorism, and a well-documented pursuit of nuclear weapons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf anyone is in any doubt about the heinous nature of this regime, they need only look at its cynical, indiscriminate, and murderous assault on civilians and civilian infrastructure across the Gulf and beyond in just the last three days. It is these circumstances that will be driving the Government\u2019s response in the days ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFirst, we are focused on our citizens, and with several thousand Kiwis living in the region or traveling through it, our diplomats are doing what they can to support them to stay safe and to move only when it is secure to do so. At home, our police are engaged with affected communities and are more visible in some locations to provide reassurance. Our second line of effort is understanding the impacts to air space and sea lanes in the Middle East, with the consequences it may have for our businesses and our consumers. The final line of effort is diplomacy. New Zealand is far from the Middle East, and I do not overestimate our influence over events there. We are not central to this region or this conflict. None the less, we join with those who call for civilians to be protected and international humanitarian law to be respected amidst the hostilities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe want this crisis to end as quickly as possible. Escalation by Iran and its proxies through retaliatory attacks across the Gulf and beyond is reprehensible and not the pathway out of this crisis. Instead, we urge a return to diplomacy and, as the Government made clear in its statement on Sunday, respect for international law. Rather than attacking its neighbours, the new Iranian leadership should now focus on a negotiated solution. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u00228df4b499c32781af4052ea4913a2c894\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228df4b499c32781af4052ea4913a2c894\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (14:06)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That the following words be added \u201Cand expresses our concern that these actions are contrary to international law and a violation of the United Nations Charter.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to begin by extending our thoughts to all those across the Middle East who have found their lives turned upside down by this recent military action. To all the New Zealanders who are concerned about loved ones spread throughout the Middle East, we send our thoughts to you as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand is a small country, but we can be a country that leads the world on international matters, not because we are the biggest, not because we are the loudest, not because we have the largest military or the biggest economy, but because as a country we know who we are, we know what our values are, and we have the courage to stick up for the things that we think are important around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has stood proudly and independently on the world stage as a voice of peace, as a voice for human rights, and, importantly, as a strong voice and advocate for the principles of international law. That voice is more important now than it ever has been. Small countries like New Zealand rely on international laws for our own security, for own economic prosperity, and for our own freedom. We turn our backs on international law at our own peril.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe US and Israel bombing of Iran is a clear breach of international law. There is no UN mandate for it. There is no evidence that these attacks were a necessary act of self-defence. For the United States to claim that it was a pre-emptive act of self-defence because they were aware that Israel was going to attack Iran and that Iran may launch retaliatory attacks as a result of that shows absolute contempt for international law and for the institutions that are designed to uphold it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Iranian Government is a brutal, oppressive, and barbaric regime. It is possible to condemn their repression, to condemn the repression of their regime, and still to be clear that unilateral military escalation is not the answer. In recent months, tens of thousands of Iranians have shown extraordinary courage. They have been taking to the streets, and they have been demanding change at enormous personal risk. They\u2019re fighting for their rights, for the right to shape their own future, but the struggle of the Iranian people cannot be used to excuse military action that breaches international law and risks destabilising the entire region and further beyond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt didn\u2019t work in Iraq, it didn\u2019t work in Afghanistan, and it won\u2019t work in Iran. When is the world going to learn the clear lessons of history? Dropping bombs, creating chaos, and then walking away will not give the Iranian people the future that they deserve. Our response must reflect our deep empathy for the innocent people who are being caught up in these event, for families losing loved ones, for civilians displaced by fear and destruction, whole populations who are facing huge uncertainty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s all be very clear as a Parliament: there is never a justification for killing school children. It should never be excused or tolerated by anybody in this House. We should be calling for restraint, for diplomacy, for the Iranian people\u2019s right to determine their own future. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d97a422b9a136e4c58e1e7434318e77\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: You never said that about Hamas.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ead5e3881d675e71a135dd77cf97b8b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand has stood up before and we should stand up again now. New Zealand opposed the US invasion of Iraq and history proved that was the correct decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve called for a return to the international rules-based order and we are right to do so. When other countries breach the international rules-based order, New Zealand has called them out. When Russia invaded Ukraine, we called that out as a breach of the international rules-based order, and we were right to do that. When Vladimir Putin invades his next country of choice, what moral authority will we have as a country to call on him to obey the international rules-based order if we are not willing to ask the same standard of countries that we have a closer relationship with?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EInternational law applies to everyone, including our friends and allies. No country should place itself above international law. We have a proud history as New Zealand of standing for peace, for the rule of law, for multilateral solutions. On issues of war and peace, we should not be timid; we should be principled. Those are our values as New Zealanders, and it is also in our interests to stand up for those values. War is not inevitable; peace has to be our goal, but to achieve that we must back international law and the international institutions that exist to uphold it. Those laws are under threat now more than ever before, as are those institutions. New Zealand\u2019s interests, and our values and our principles, are served by fighting for that international rules-based system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022675e82850859aa2355980ba9254b5d58\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022675e82850859aa2355980ba9254b5d58\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:13)\u003C/span\u003E: I didn\u2019t want to interrupt the member at all but there was some degree of commentary during that speech. It\u2019s a very, very serious issue and I\u2019d ask members to restrain as much as possible for interjecting in other persons\u2019 views. The question is that the motion as amended be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u0022698a287ad02ebeb2b4e63f344407eacb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022698a287ad02ebeb2b4e63f344407eacb\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (14:13)\u003C/span\u003E: We support the amendment. Aotearoa must be a force for peace, not a bystander and certainly not a cheerleader for war, for further aggression, for escalation of violence. The Green Party absolutely condemns the United States\u2019 unlawful and aggressive strikes on Iran, and calls on the Government to do the same. To do so would ensure that we uphold our principled and consistent approach over successive Governments, as a leader of the world, to be able to be clear and have moral courage and leadership, that we actually believe in upholding international law because, to allow for countries unilaterally\u2014that is, without speaking to friends and allies\u2014to make a decision willy-nilly to invade another country just because they do not like their leader is to put us and certainly the world in a dangerous and volatile position. This is the entire point of Prime Ministers and Governments upholding international law. So, at a time when it asks of any Prime Minister to upstand and uphold that law, we are not seeing that right now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet us be clear: the Greens have been on the ground, have maintained relationships, have continued to provide platform and voice for the fact that the Iranian Government was no friend of the law and no friend of human rights. The Greens have continuously condemned the brutality, the violence, and the oppression of Iranian freedom activists, who deserve freedom from the oppression of the Iranian Government, as much as they deserve freedom from war and terror inflicted upon them, also, by Israel and the United States. We will continue to be present on the ground and in communities, including with the Iranian diaspora here in Aotearoa, to continue to uphold a Green Party charter value, which is non-violence. That will prevail for us, and we are on record for doing that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are watching the United States make the same mistakes as they made when they invaded Iraq, except with even less of a plan, even less public support, and even less of an attempt by the United States Government to justify it to the international community under international law. I agree with my colleague Mr Hipkins that already, over 550 Iranians have died in the US-Israeli attacks, 165 of which were at a girls\u2019 school in southern Iran, targeted by US-Israeli strikes. We have always been clear that all human lives must be valued, must be humanised. We can never ever dismiss the value of any lives lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has to stand up for the rules-based international order. The Government is right that for a small State like New Zealand, the rules-based international order is all we have to protect our interests against those of military powers, and yet this Government refuses to take action to uphold that very order that they have professed to agree with when it is violated by the United States and Israel. The Government\u2019s selective responses to crimes committed by the United States and Israel, as opposed to those committed by Russia, China, and Iran, undermine New Zealand\u2019s credibility as a fair player in the international sphere. When Russia illegally invades a sovereign nation, in breach of international law, New Zealand joined efforts to condemn Russia, sanction Russia, and arm Ukraine. Yet, when the United States illegally attacks Iran, our Prime Minister stands there in support of the strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIsrael and the United States are escalating the unchecked genocide of Palestinians into an all-out war in the Middle East. Their disregard for international law, human rights, and the sanctity of human life, is the greatest threat to peace on this planet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also hope that if the bombs stop falling, despite the odds, Iranians and all peoples in the region can live in freedom and democracy, free from the violence of the Iranian State and from the American military. We also urge that the Government take every step right now to ensure the wellbeing of New Zealanders in Iran and of all people impacted by this war, and for families\u2014including a blanket extension on visas\u2014to ensure that people do not have to go through the stressful process of an unwieldy application or, worse, be returned to dangerous war zones and violence. We think, and we know, that this is something that the Government could simply agree to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn closing, I emphasise again the duty and the responsibility of the Government and the Prime Minister to maintain our principled and consistent approach to upholding international law and to either come up with the evidence that this was not illegal, or condemn it for being illegal. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u00221cff42c2fe9466759350f32ad6070243\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221cff42c2fe9466759350f32ad6070243\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader\u2014ACT) (14:20)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of the Prime Minister\u2019s statement and in opposition to the amendment proposed by Chris Hipkins. Nobody should want violence and oppression or war or bombing, but the people of Iran and their neighbours have suffered nearly five decades of it from this evil regime. There will be people who will want to debate what international law means in this context. There will be some who say that it is never important, and that might is always right. There will be others who will say that international law gives unconditional protection to the most murderous dictators, even when they kill tens of thousands of their own people. The truth is that that will probably be a question debated for many decades by experts in universities, but right now\u2014I hate to say\u2014the world is not waiting for New Zealand to cast its judgment on that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of the arguments that have been made already in this debate demonstrate the total absurdity of people who like to navel gaze and pontificate on a matter they know so little about. People who don\u2019t know what it is that the Americans or the Israelis knew somehow pretend that they know more than people involved in the conflict\u2014and we\u2019ve heard from that. We\u2019ve heard the true absurdity of the position that there is some sort of moral equivalent between the action of the last few days and Putin invading Ukraine. Let me give you a clue. The people of Ukraine united ferociously, fiercely, and bravely around their democratically elected leader Volodymyr Zelenskyy, and have fought the Russian army of Putin for the last four years as of last Wednesday. The people of Iran were machine-gunned by the tens of thousands for peacefully demonstrating against their Government by their own Government. To somehow gloss over that difference shows a level of ignorance and, frankly, pomposity that I can\u2019t possibly comprehend\u2014even from the Opposition, for whom I normally leave a lot of leeway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Government, as we heard from our Prime Minister, is taking a far more practical approach to this conflict. Number one, we are looking after New Zealanders, and particularly those many Iranis who chose to become New Zealanders and have sought safety in New Zealand. They deserve to continue being safe here, and the Government is taking steps to ensure that they are protected, because as we saw only recently, the tentacles of this regime have already stretched as close to our shores as our ally in Australia. Number two, we are looking after New Zealanders in the region of the Middle East. I\u2019ve personally seen on social media people I know well who have been stranded and are sheltering in place, their flights cancelled, and very fearful of what may happen to them. The New Zealand Government is offering support and information so that those people can be safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also hoping that there might be an opportunity for people like\u2014sadly, not her\u2014but people like Mahsa Amini to be able to wear their hair however they please and to live their life with the rights that women in every country should have but that have been denied to Irani women for far too long, for far too many generations. We hold hope that the evil that has propagated out from Tehran to the region surrounding them\u2014and that is currently being manifested by missiles to just about every Arab State\u2014will finally cease, and that there will be a lasting peace and a prosperity in the beautiful region of Persia that lives up to its heritage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we stand here with hope, but we also stand here with a steely resolve and a close eye on what this means for New Zealand as the possibility of the Strait of Hormuz being closed, disruption in world markets, and a restriction in the supply of energy\u2014because we know what that can mean for New Zealand households. We know our own history, and we know\u2014and I was with Sir Roger Douglas just this morning\u2014that the last time there was a revolution in Iran, it set off, through energy prices, a revolution here in New Zealand. These things can affect us severely, too, and as a Government we do what we always do, which is make careful use of taxpayer money, govern carefully, and make sure that this country is run well so that whatever circumstances we may face in the future as a result of this conflict, New Zealanders will be facing from a position of strength.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWith that, I leave my final thoughts with those many, many victims\u2014those from the last few days, but those from the last five decades\u2014of this awful regime. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243e1b2a5b8c03221cf1635a17fa908e7\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b3fdde387e4c76a2f73fdad7c183a99\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to take a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022080d1dda4c9e8adbf6968254dc207b68\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, no, you\u2019ve got a call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022 data-id=\u0022c165b1e8fd056f034d0e25c42ca4a3cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c165b1e8fd056f034d0e25c42ca4a3cb\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori) (14:26)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, I\u2019d like to acknowledge those who have lost their lives in this unjust war and illegal bombing in Iran, but the many people who have lost lives through the world going mad with war, and we can see war happening all over the world. Aotearoa must stand for peace. Martin Luther King once said, \u201CInjustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere.\u201D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori stands firmly opposed to war and military escalation in Iran and across the Middle East. We reject the idea that bombing, invasion, and unilateral military strikes create peace\u2014history shows us the opposite. Military aggression disestablishes regions, costs civilian lives, and deepens intergenerational trauma. Two truths can exist at once: authoritarian regimes can be oppressive, and foreign military intervention driven by geopolitical interests does not liberate ordinary people. It is everyday families who pay the price. There is never an excuse or justification for bombing innocent girls while they are learning at school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs indigenous peoples, we know what it means when powerful nations justify force in the name of security, order, or freedom. Too often, those words mask economic interest, strategic dominance, and political ego. The legacy is displacement, grief, and long-term instability. Aotearoa must not be silent. I heard one of the speakers say the world is not waiting for what New Zealand thinks. I don\u2019t care. New Zealand is waiting for what New Zealand thinks. What is our moral compass? We cannot allow America or Israel to be the moral judge on humanitarian rights and then align with those regimes that, for a long time, have had some of the poorest humanitarian regimes in history. Aotearoa must not be silent or complicit, Prime Minister. Our foreign policy should be grounded in international law, multilateral diplomacy, and the protection of civilian life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe call on the New Zealand Government to publicly condemn unilateral military aggression; advocate for immediate de-escalation; stop aligning with the USA and being a proxy for Zionism\u2014being the doorway for their military agenda here in the Pacific. Kick the FBI out; the United States and Israeli ambassadors. Let\u2019s put a pou in the ground. Pull out of AUKUS negotiations\u2014because you can see those countries have been targeted now, and we\u2019ve been saying that for a while\u2014support diplomatic pathways through the United Nations, prioritise humanitarian aid and civilian protection. Peace is not naive. Diplomacy is not weakness. International law is not optional. War has never delivered enduring safety for ordinary people. It delivers profit for arms dealers and political theatre for leaders, while families bury their loved ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe quote from Martin Luther King goes on to say, \u201CWe are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment of destiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly.\u201D We also must acknowledge that war affects everyday wh\u0101nau here in Aotearoa in real and practical ways. I acknowledge the Iranian people who live here, who have made Aotearoa their home, who have run away from those regimes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen bombs are dropped overseas, we feel it here at the checkout. Global conflict pushes oil prices up; transport costs rise, making kai more expensive and harder to access during a cost of living crisis. We must translate what this means for everyday New Zealanders. We can get caught up in the geopolitical k\u014Drero, and I don\u2019t want to take anything away from those who have lost their lives in these atrocities, but I do want to say that we have to translate what the impacts are for our people here in Aotearoa, because it will have an impact on us\u2014absolutely. The price of oil is not just what you pay for at the gas pumps, but what you pay in almost every item that needs to be brought to you from somewhere else, which is almost everything. These are the trucks in Ohakune, transporting carrots to Auckland; these are those M\u0101ori organisations; these are all of our farmers that will be affected by these wars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow do we translate the impact on Aotearoa? Yes, we might be buried deep down in the South of the Pacific, but when we start to align to all of these regimes across the world that are inflicting pain and suffering, what is the impact on our people\u2014what is the impact on our people? We are already in a cost of living crisis. This is going to give the pinch to our people even more. Poverty will be entrenched; it will be intergenerational poverty. There is nothing that this Government or any other Government will be able to do, unless we start looking at cleaner, more efficient energies here in Aotearoa and stop relying on those dirty fossil fuels from overseas. \u201CDrill, baby, drill\u201D\u2014that\u2019s not the call for Aotearoa. \u201CMining!\u201D is not the call for Aotearoa. The call for Aotearoa is for us to be more self-sufficient. It is to stop the dependence on those fossil fuels. We should be prepared for any of these things as we head into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo my call today, to this Government, is: what are we going to do to ensure that we alleviate the pressure that will impact our families here in Aotearoa\u2014that will impact the Iranians who have made Aotearoa their home? We need that to sink in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are all taxpayers here, but giving $3 billion to landlords is not a very good use of taxpayer money. We should be investing that into more sustainable energies here in Aotearoa, because we\u2019re going to be impacted by geopolitical decisions made by other countries around the world and we are going to feel the pinch\u2014absolutely, we are going to feel the pinch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e9c1f7de44e5366397e34cfeb1aa0f4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Come back to the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce3ebe54f4f4a14ff2d41fc4c82882db\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: We support the addition to the motion made by Chris Hipkins and we absolutely\u2014absolutely\u2014call for peace on this particular issue. We want to ensure that our people understand the impacts that it will have on our people living here in Aotearoa. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022146d4f1da3928c6771439c638dc778eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022146d4f1da3928c6771439c638dc778eb\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour) (14:34)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. There are principles that carry us through the storms of our global history. They form the architecture of our international rules-based order. They aren\u2019t about perfection. They are about anchoring our world toward peace and security, toward evidence-based action, toward multilateralism, toward minimising the mass displacement of people across borders, toward minimising the loss of lives and suffering globally. They anchor us against chaos and they anchor us against the philosophy of might is right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have two obligations in respect of the rules-based order. The first is to follow the rules. The second is to hold others accountable to them. New Zealand has, throughout our history, upheld both these obligations, but this week we have seen a Government shrugging its shoulders at the second of those obligations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge those directly affected: the people of Iran. Now, there will be many in Iran and in our Iranian community here who, in this moment, will be filled with an impossible mix of emotions: a mix of fear for their family members, relief at the death of many who were responsible for some of the most atrocious violations of human rights, and of hope for what might come next for Iran.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe condemn the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps (IRGC) for its breaches of human rights over decades, and we acknowledge that for so many of these people in Iran and our Iranian New Zealanders this will be a complex time. But two things are true: that the Iranian regime has abused the human rights of its people for decades, with some of the worst repression against women and those who took to the streets in courageous defence of their rights; but at the same time, what we\u2019ve seen in the last few days is a breach of international law by the US and Israel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe need Governments to speak hard truths, especially when international peace and security are at stake, and right now our Government are choosing not to. Let\u2019s be clear, in the absence of evidence that justifies self-defence under the UN Charter, there is a breach of international law. No evidence has been presented, and while our Government has decided it\u2019s not going to ask for any, surely they can\u2019t ignore what is now in the public space. In the last day, we\u2019ve heard the Pentagon telling Congress there was no sign that Iran was going to attack the US first, and no evidence to support the claim that the US attacked Iran in defence. We\u2019ve heard the Senate Intelligence Committee vice chair say he had seen no intelligence that Iran was on the verge of launching any kind of pre-emptive strike against the United States of America.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis action sits outside what is permissible under international law. This Government should call it what it is, which is a breach of international law. I would note for Government members that there is international law that speaks to when action is possible, when there is the breach of a jus cogens, we have an erga omnes obligation to act when there are mass human rights atrocities. That is not what\u2019s been claimed in this instance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut perhaps the comments from the Prime Minister yesterday give us a signal as to why they haven\u2019t called it what it is. It feels like this is a Government that doesn\u2019t believe a breach of international law matters. The Prime Minister said that any action that stops Iran is a good thing: \u201Cany action\u201D, \u201Cany action\u201D, \u201Cany action\u201D. It\u2019s one of the most definitive statements I\u2019ve heard the Prime Minister make. It\u2019s a hard statement to walk back when you say it three times on repeat with conviction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe respect international law because the alternative is worse. The alternative is a world where only force dictates outcomes. There are principles that carry us through the storms of our global history. They\u2019re the bones of our international rules-based order. They aren\u2019t about perfection; they\u2019re about anchoring our world and peace and security. To protect them, we must not only abide by them but require that other nation States do the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b836b44f025a04c4f04cab263288f14\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the amendment in the name of the Rt Hon Chris Hipkins be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the following words be added \u201Cand expresses our concern that these actions are contrary to international law and a violation of the United Nations Charter\u201D\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendment not agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fe6fd1b73b49a01eecf49c66b673398\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion, \u201CThat this House express its concern at the escalating conflict in the Middle East, that it deplores civilian casualties, and calls on all parties to respect international law, and that it calls for a diplomatic process in the deescalation of activities\u201D, be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c5bf1d22649ca4c6c2deeea187682ed\u0022\u003EDebates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002234c4e0b98537134fbd211244871ae9c8\u0022\u003EIran and Middle East\u2014Status of New Zealanders\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eeb6798f68d1364cd3de1929c2aab6bc\u0022\u003EUrgent Debate Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1cbfebf45ce3b33d8b1c4da2df9aab0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1cbfebf45ce3b33d8b1c4da2df9aab0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I have received a letter from the Hon Marama Davidson seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the status of New Zealanders in Iran and the Middle East following the recent attacks. Since the House has just debated the conflict, the application is declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221844169ba18b7bf03f6926011e583383\u0022\u003EPresentation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fc4ba7b9b47a712b3aceb7b33fab6022\u0022\u003EPetitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00224e906b43fab7639996ac9d7323e0a731\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224e906b43fab7639996ac9d7323e0a731\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Three petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f054148ace368859ba86059c4fd7d24c\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:41): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Renata Neilson requesting that the House amend criminal laws to ensure that any person convicted of a crime that resulted in the death of a person under the age of 18 receives a full life sentence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of MedicAlert Foundation requesting that the House provide funding to enable at-risk health consumers to access the MedicAlert Foundation\u2019s emergency identification and digital health information services\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of SAFE requesting that the House establish a Commissioner for Animals, which reviews the animal welfare system, reports on animal welfare science, and provides independent oversight and accountability for animal welfare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c879a46e4f254cdcf6fc2b05f38a1ae9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002232cd8e15fbdeccade4315527fdeb88e3\u0022\u003EPapers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002286ae98aa452a671b1beaa398d9968c99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002286ae98aa452a671b1beaa398d9968c99\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:42)\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers have delivered three papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228ec6d43a85e2cd595b6a94c97cd4e2ca\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:42): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EGovernment Superannuation Fund, annual report for 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EGovernment responses to the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003EJustice Committee report to the petition of Christine McCarthy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003EPetitions Committee report on the petition of Christina Gillmore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022619ab2029823e1d71865f9dc62336288\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f49f6b1b56c9bce04bdb84e5e7af20b1\u0022\u003ESelect Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022bf521926a75f54db9daf0e2335a58f9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bf521926a75f54db9daf0e2335a58f9b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:42)\u003C/span\u003E: Fourteen select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250de76fe53ad529321195780996c2cfd\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:42): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EReports of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of New Zealand Trade and Enterprise\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of the New Zealand Customs Service and Border Executive Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Einternational treaty examination of the Agreement to Establish the Pacific Resilience Facility\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the review briefing on the 2023-24 annual review of the Cancer Control Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Justice Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of the New Zealand Police\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ESummary Offences (Demonstrations Near Residential Premises) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the M\u0101ori Affairs Committee on the 2024-25 annual review of Te Aratuku Whakaata Irirangi M\u0101ori\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Graeme Axford\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Jasmine Nathan\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Juliana Carvalho\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Trixie O\u2019Dea\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Primary Production Committee on the review briefing on the 2023-24 annual review of Crown Irrigation Investments Ltd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ECarter Trust Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4a7a2e24ff7b22dbe1de8d6b167fa53\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bills are set down for second reading. The international treaty and review briefings are set down for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223cd2b2f113a47805cae1672e871a8335\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae71ac64db4ee5434c42b8a03df27b94\u0022\u003ECommerce (Commerce Commission Reform) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae71ac64db4ee5434c42b8a03df27b94\u0022\u003EElectoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae71ac64db4ee5434c42b8a03df27b94\u0022\u003EData and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ae71ac64db4ee5434c42b8a03df27b94\u0022\u003ETrust Horizon (Trust Variation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4e04b989a1c1b564808177d639eaca8\u0022\u003EIntroduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00223bc0ef7e2f071e97a2ac5c391ea2ab7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223bc0ef7e2f071e97a2ac5c391ea2ab7a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:44)\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of four bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f155722897bee086ef34ed75e48a406\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:44): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003ECommerce (Commerce Commission Reform) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EElectoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EData and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill, introduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003ETrust Horizon (Trust Variation) Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c036e0ee251b728e41a9de74eb0c419\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those bills are set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022095d3ff19d91382cc6b307f36c2ab1cd\u0022\u003EOral Questions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226053af463c5725cb20c8c9f757c9890a\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298d63ec0903627ae923b89a34b42c9f7\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u002282c9e6157c2a33c6212b160bf7b1e44a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282c9e6157c2a33c6212b160bf7b1e44a\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (14:44)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: Will conflict in the Middle East have an impact on the New Zealand economy? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u00221f236ff4a25669b4deef245fdfdb53a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f236ff4a25669b4deef245fdfdb53a5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:44)\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is a trading nation, and so significant global events do impact on the economy; the question in this case is how big that impact will be. A lot will depend on how long the conflict continues and whether it escalates. Recent history suggests that global conflict tends to cause short-term volatility in markets but that, over time, they settle back close to previous levels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8096e21353c53a92cf8fa1a5c452698\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How have markets reacted to the conflict?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dea1a3cc1af401b669701588b9c308f5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: To date, financial market reaction has been relatively muted, so far. The price of crude oil has risen this week, but to nothing like the levels seen when Russia invaded Ukraine. When US markets closed at 10 a.m. today, it was up 7 percent on last Friday\u2019s close, at just under US$78 a barrel. That compares with the price of US$128 a barrel on 8 March 2022. Global equity markets have remained stable; the Standard \u0026amp; Poor\u2019s index actually rose fractionally overnight. But the duration and extent of this conflict remains unclear, and Treasury and the Reserve Bank will continue to monitor market developments closely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082a6fc0284c77eca37f0cdcd78a4fb8\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: What could be the impact of the conflict on New Zealand exports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022612fa9873a3412548071370e959e9ac8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Middle East is a relatively small market for New Zealand, but one that is growing in importance. Total exports to the region last year were $3.3 billion, representing 3 percent of New Zealand\u2019s total exports. The conflict, which is disrupting traffic through the Strait of Hormuz, will undoubtedly present some challenges. However, New Zealand\u2019s exporters have shown themselves to be extremely resilient and adaptable in recent years, and they are taking advantage of the work the Government is doing to open doors by negotiating rules, removing non-tariff barriers, and diversifying markets to build resilience. It is notable that despite the imposition of tariffs on exports to the US last year, exports to the United States actually increased, as did our overall exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eb2bf7613e29d99763b275569a3697d7\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: How could the conflict impact on fuel supplies and prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227eaf88b54a4bf7a8b29d63d1ea5c996a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Recently introduced regulations require fuel importers to maintain at least 28 days of petrol and 21 days of diesel reserves, with the Government having acted to increase that requirement. The petrol companies have all reported that healthy stock and additional supplies are already in transit, and so domestic fuel shortages are not anticipated in the short or medium term. The impact on price will depend on how long the conflict continues and whether it escalates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c634915e34353c1fc32f993ced178816\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: With oil prices already 7 percent higher and 20 percent of global supply moving through the Strait of Hormuz, does the Minister accept that New Zealand families will be paying higher fuel, food, and, possibly, mortgage costs because of this conflict, and what concrete steps is she taking to shield them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221fe691af145651d711e509f5d492530a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it is absolutely the case that the price of crude oil by the barrel has an impact on the fuel prices that New Zealanders pay at the pump, and that\u2019s why I will continue to monitor those movements closely. It also of course has an impact on the cost of freight, food, and other factors in the economy; I acknowledge that. The member overestimates my importance and influence\u2014my ability to end the conflict in the Middle East is limited.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225e8db5528480d7cc931964b72e4416f8\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221fd76b5bc7acc560e477807e04c1cec2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab446c8e3d58d36c99dc4f949990a042\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab446c8e3d58d36c99dc4f949990a042\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (14:48)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u0022bbfd114bfdd5fcb0acf4f8d8645b63e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bbfd114bfdd5fcb0acf4f8d8645b63e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:48)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa7d158ef802785cf17387ed7d5d1475\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the New Zealand Government support the US and Israel\u2019s air strikes against Iran?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e7dd015f57a455df6fb8c731f4a4ba0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said yesterday, we have long supported action that stops Iran from obtaining a nuclear weapon that sponsors State terrorism around the world and also brutally represses its people. But these are independent actions by the US and Israel. We are not party to them, we have not had advance warning, and we have not had a subsequent briefing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289517c6fc9997da4dbbf68784fdb89a2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the New Zealand Government believe the US and Israel\u2019s air strikes against Iran are in accordance with the United Nations Charter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8113f61965b796a9b6a67ef2a01f36\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I\u2019ve noted the member\u2019s comments and his remarks today in the House and I\u2019d just say that I\u2019m unsure as to how he would possibly make the assessment that they are illegal or legal, and that is because the member\u2014or any of the members\u2014does not have access to the information. New Zealand cannot jump to conclusions either way, because, actually, at the end of the day, we have not been party to the information or intelligence around these strikes. We can make assumptions about that, but, as Prime Minister, I have to deal with the facts and the evidence that I have before me, and, as a result, that is why it is up to the US and it is up to Israel to assert the legality of these strikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222881b06884c9a2683a2727a8441ecf81\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Secretary-General of the United Nations wrong when he said that the air strikes violated international law and breached core principles of the UN Charter?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c21a5a702c9c86f875e28c0ab53b5cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the member has read\u2014as I have, as well\u2014the US has invoked the right to self-defence under article 51 of the UN Charter. It is up for them to provide the legal evidence and the justification for these strikes, but sitting here in New Zealand with people jumping to assumptions based on what they\u2019ve read in media reports, without the knowledge or the information, is not actually what we need to do. We need to be factual and evidence-based, and, as a result, we\u2019re not in a position to determine whether they are legal or illegal. That is up to the Americans and the Israelis to assert.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f45b9f3f7a44973195543595cb6abee2\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he say that \u201Cany actions that stop Iran from getting [nuclear weapons] is a good thing.\u201D, suggesting he\u2019d support any actions, even if they\u2019re contrary to international law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ee1db909955222ae2440ffda4edf0b31\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I clarified those remarks this morning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221702a2d00dfbe26e6567e03fb56e0e2b\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did he repeatedly refuse to condemn the bombing of schoolchildren?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273d5536a9a0510b1db45223302124d32\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: The bombing of schoolchildren, and, actually, any civilian casualties in a war is a total tragedy, and it is terrible what has happened there. But, as you\u2019ve seen, and as I said yesterday, the Americans and the Israelis are commenting on that. This is why we want to see a very quick resolution to this. It\u2019s why we want to see Iran and their leadership resume negotiations very, very quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fdff3a6b08ebc9af895f40cee6ac7784\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his own statement that \u201CWe need to stand up for the international rules based system that has actually served New Zealand incredibly well \u2026 When it is under threat, you\u2019ve actually got to call it out, and you\u2019ve got to stand up and make your contribution.\u201D; if so, why won\u2019t he take a position on whether the US\u2019 and Israel\u2019s air strikes are consistent with that international rules-based system, particularly given that the Secretary-General of the United Nations has said they are not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227940c6480ba49994d6fc99c037b7bcb0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part, absolutely, but, as I have just explained to the member, we don\u2019t have the information or intelligence by which these independent actions by the US and Israel were launched, and the member doesn\u2019t, either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d0c42cac3296d9212e99050b85bc8b7\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is it a greater priority for his Government to rush to judgment on a rapidly developing matter on the other side of the world or to carefully manage the New Zealand economy for the benefit of New Zealanders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272437b9168266315b5097c27072d82e7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I think I have a responsibility to say very clearly that it\u2019s very easy to jump to assumptions and make assertions from here, but we do not have the information. We are not party to the information or intelligence. These were\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c803a0af2a4423612b937dd03b5a9dd\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Show some leadership.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fed3da92e252bc2a8c9df5828818f1cb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member may interject from the other side, but that is the reality of it. Does that member have the information, as well\u2014does the member have the information?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222841d9c878a2f471a9051d61f4232ead\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I have been hesitant to interrupt the flow because it\u2019s a serious issue that deserves serious scrutiny, but I would just draw your and the House\u2019s attention to Speaker\u2019s ruling 186/6, which is about opinions being \u201Csought that in effect are asking for a legal interpretation,\u201D. There has been quite a bit of backwards and forwards between the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition in regard to the legality and the seeking of legal opinions. The Speaker\u2019s ruling from Speaker Wilson in 2008 was quite clear that \u201CIf legal opinions are called for, they will not be permitted.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a638caa60d4ed537a67b5ef1ffae89f2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That is quite true, but at the time that the Rt Hon Margaret Wilson was dealing with that, I\u2019m sure she wasn\u2019t dealing with an international crisis of this type, and I think the question that\u2019s been asked has been adequately answered by the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002270e9a0a64b1a27df9752126897e6a434\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: What is the Prime Minister doing right now to protect the economy of New Zealand as conflict in the Middle East escalates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022704886bb9550e3503c51f0499370f4a4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the finance Minister has alluded, the effects on the market at this point have been somewhat muted. We are monitoring it very closely, and I can tell you that the finance Minister is doing so and Treasury is doing so. But this is a Government that is very focused on growing the economy, and that work continues because in a world that is increasingly volatile and uncertain, there are two things we can do: one is to build a stronger economy here at home, and the second thing we can do is diversify and deepen our relationships internationally.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022681ba57e1f49cd1f71495931da09eb3e\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Will his Government commit to automatically extending visas for people who are in this country right now whose home countries have been affected by this war, as happened in the context of the invasion of Ukraine in 2022?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022312bca2159ad0c43fce6f3d90305a11e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I understand that we are doing that, and the Minister of Immigration will continue to take advice on that too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c783b19ffaf51e3ff1071cfa446911\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister believe the bombing of civilians in Iran makes the world safer for ordinary families in Aotearoa, and, if so, how?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1b82f6d95c399e11f3a6bedf7068387\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I think the bombing of civilians in Iran or any conflict around the world is an absolute tragedy\u2014an absolute tragedy\u2014and that is why we want to see negotiations resume quickly and that\u2019s why we expect and join with the international community in wanting to see a very quick resolution to this conflict.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d543963672213ec5eb2f92e9467ec8\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: How will building a closer relationship with Donald Trump, who has bombed at least seven countries this term, make Aotearoa safer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e97f4a19c5670863fd35c54d05a27ce5\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As Prime Minister of New Zealand, my responsibility is to act in New Zealand\u2019s national interests and to make sure that we are secure and prosperous. That is the work of this Government and what we have been doing over the last two years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022342f8ae06fb7b744191228f63fa81856\u0022\u003EJustice\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222fb81ad85a08aa9db34350a790df1616\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b49c7a9513620bb5c7e08aa972769a0d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b49c7a9513620bb5c7e08aa972769a0d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (14:55)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Justice\u003C/span\u003E: What progress has the Government made towards its violent crime reduction target?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u002244181caa0fbdd952c2e127724eaf7d52\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244181caa0fbdd952c2e127724eaf7d52\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister of Justice) (14:56)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent progress. We\u2019ve seen a significant drop in the number of victims of violent crime since this Government was elected, with the latest New Zealand Crime and Victims Survey showing there were 49,000 fewer victims of violent crime in the year to October 2025 than in the two years previous. This follows a focus on restoring real consequences for crime and placing victims at the centre of the justice system. There is still much work to do, but Kiwis can be proud of the progress that we\u2019ve made together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a363eb00eb13cdc272a3cc51e0acafa8\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What was the original target that the Government had set to reduce the number of victims of violent crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac77e891dd864a8e97bd9772c09fb56f\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: When we came into Government in October 2023, there were 185,000 victims of violent crime, and the Government set a target of reducing that figure to 165,000\u2014a reduction of 20,000 victims\u2014by 2029.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c185a3c63492503dcee289f6bd8be441\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: We didn\u2019t hear that on \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003E1News\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224eba70dfe488281ac6de516aa703f96d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well\u2014and this is particularly for the benefit of viewers of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003E1News \u003C/span\u003Eand others who may be interested\u2014the latest figure is that there are 136,000 victims of crime, a reduction of 49,000. That\u2019s 49,000 families that don\u2019t have to go through the pain and suffering of dealing with being the victims of violent crime and being the families of those victims, and that is great progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214249e8833e4864257095f738a08391\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it important that the number of victims of violent crime reduces?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216fbc83a01693c9543586c6830521813\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: This Government is committed to restoring the basics in law and order, and building a future where New Zealanders feel safe in the community, and it\u2019s not just the victims of violent crime who are affected, of course; it is their families and their communities, as well. The previous Government, in its wisdom, had a focus on reducing the number of people in prison, and we\u2019ve shifted that focus to focusing solely on reducing the number of victims of violent crime. That has been our focus and it will always be our focus.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a22c87dc3a9950e646c553ebd2e6f506\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What is next on the Government\u2019s agenda to further reduce the number of victims of violent crime?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4f310de4fc0fa0a5929d0b52a21e351\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve made tremendous progress, but there\u2019s still more work to do. Very shortly, we\u2019ll be introducing legislation to strengthen trespass laws in New Zealand, followed by legislation to provide the police with the power to deal with antisocial, disorderly behaviour in our CBDs, and our Crime Amendment Bill is making its way through the House. I\u2019m proud of the work that the law and order team across Government are doing, which is making a real difference to the lives of New Zealanders, and we know right here that there is much more work to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002240dc1bc846459c1c3b85ffa59fe6211d\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002289c5874b0b9352c7c503585eeaf65ebe\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6ef6f1cb6c8e30b90243b0f9f4ab4b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6ef6f1cb6c8e30b90243b0f9f4ab4b5\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana) (14:59)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: Why did she say Kiwis are being impatient for cost of living relief, when she promised it in July 2024?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022803f272c97d891bd49c9a09d54a88577\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022803f272c97d891bd49c9a09d54a88577\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:59)\u003C/span\u003E: Because they, like me, are impatient. We all want a stronger economy sooner, and I share their frustration. These are New Zealanders who as recently as 2022 endured annual price increases of 6.9 percent, 7.3 percent, 7.2 percent, and 7.2 percent in successive quarters, and I\u2019d note that in July 2024, the Government did provide promised cost of living relief through tax changes that benefited around 1.9 million New Zealand households by an average of $60 extra a fortnight in their hand\u2014$60 a fortnight, I take it, that the member would want to take back. This, of course, has been joined by other measures, including FamilyBoost, scrapping the Auckland fuel and ute tax, extending Working for Families, rates rebates for SuperGold card holders\u2014I could go on. Most importantly, however, since 2023, inflation has come down markedly. I too am impatient for the economy to grow, with higher wages and higher employment, and inflation settled within the target band. That takes time, however, and international events, as we have seen, mean the recovery is not necessarily a smooth road.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022650f12dd2e0a8772ba5872d4d3efd85d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How many of the 21,000 families that she promised would receive a $250 tax cut have actually received it, or are they just being impatient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d30a75526ce625cf6868ab8d8cb0d061\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: If the member wants specific data, she should put it in the question on notice. However, it is the case that in terms of the FamilyBoost tax credit, we made changes to that last year\u2014which I note the member\u2019s party supported, having earlier opposed\u2014which mean that many families have now got more than $150 a fortnight in relief from that policy, which, combined with the impact of tax relief, means there are undoubtedly families who will have received tax relief through bracket changes, Working for Families changes, and FamilyBoost that amount to that $250. Most importantly, we were always clear that they would receive up to that amount; we never promised that was an average.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213b16fc15154eb6d42dea90849eb0010\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Are families impatient because she promised to \u201Creduce food prices for Kiwis.\u201D and has done nothing to help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225a60e4da49efc732b98fdf44c9234b5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I have gone and reviewed documents which the member\u2019s leader referred to in the House, and he will note that I have written to him about this because the article the member is referring to now is a paraphrase from a journalist. The video which Mr Hipkins has referred to previously in which he said that I made the statement that \u201CNational would make groceries cheaper\u201D\u2014that statement is not included in that video at any stage. I have provided the full transcript to Mr Hipkins; he has chosen not to correct his statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276939e06ddb86901ff5b9bd002ae7fcd\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d just like to correct the Minister\u2019s response to my question in relation to the transcript that she was quoting. She was quoting a Chris Hipkins quote from last week. I was actually quoting from a transcript of Nicola Willis\u2019 press conference on 27 August 2025, where she said, \u201CThe purpose of this briefing is to update you on the Government\u2019s next steps to increase grocery competition and reduce food prices for Kiwis.\u201D, and so the Minister responded to a quote that was not what I was referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d629ed6905467a67af40a616cc37041d\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, Mr Speaker. You can see the dilemma when her leader makes statements that are not referenced in fact, and I then have cause to question statements that member makes as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c0caea9767c7d30501d9b0e7b9412dc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yep, I can see the dilemma. Ask your next supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217f6923ada985ad14325ef8950af42e7\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Can I ask that one again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea7fc98f90ce253d85280fb368c97f1c\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if you want to ask it again, that\u2019s fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd02949d8a2979432c29ab9ad631ea6a\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Are people impatient because she promised, on 27 August 2025, action on \u201C[reducing] food prices for Kiwis.\u201D and she\u2019s done nothing to help?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae552ca8484461d55287bdde49cf1144\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m with every New Zealander who would like to see groceries cheaper. The question for us is whether or not we can make groceries cheaper than would otherwise be the case. It is the case that when inflation is higher, grocery prices increase more rapidly, and with inflation under control, they have not risen as fast as could have been the case with a more profligate and high-spending Government. It is also the case that our Government has taken action to do what we can to support more competition in the grocery sector. Those actions include changes to the fast-track legislation and changes to building consent rules to enable new entrants to compete. The Commerce Commission have reported extensively on the margins which supermarket operators charge for their goods and those increasing margins, and I join with those New Zealanders who wish to see grocery prices cheaper. I am realistic about the role of Government in that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274bf5d12c7941613d563582333b890fd\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Are people impatient because she promised action on energy prices, but she\u2019s introducing a gas tax instead?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eaae76dac34f4ceb50051ef5f1e3aca5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: There can be no affordability and security of electricity supply in New Zealand unless we, as policy makers, address the very real challenge of what happens to electricity supply on days when there isn\u2019t enough water in the hydro lakes, the sun isn\u2019t shining, and the wind isn\u2019t blowing. If we do not address that challenge, electricity prices will only go up, and I note that future pricing for energy on the wholesale market has reflected risk reduction since the Government\u2019s statements on LNG and Genesis Energy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f2ba897833e781eb0dcca3e0de47cba\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: What has been the target for inflation over successive Governments?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd668c6af968b2484b61681241075172\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Since 2002, successive Governments have had a target for the Reserve Bank of annual Consumers Price Index (CPI) inflation of between 1 and 3 percent, on average, over the medium term. The target, of course, has never been about prices falling across the board, but is aimed at low and stable inflation. Of course, the only significant change was between 2019 and 2023, when the Reserve Bank was given an additional objective to support maximum sustainable employment. During that period, I note that annual inflation reached the heights of 7.3 percent and it stayed out of target for 33 consecutive months. I understand some people are actively considering bringing back a dual mandate. It shows they are not serious about getting inflation under control.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6c277096110b4ea10661522ae18d5f5\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is the only thing that Kiwis are actually impatient for is for that Minister to stop feeding them false promises, to stop being distracted, and to just focus on her actual job?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228190fb118615c6b581a16d38637da195\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The loudest false promise I have heard in recent times has been from those who out of one side of their mouth say that they care deeply about the cost of living and out the other side of their mouth say that they would change the inflation-targeting regime, would introduce new taxes on tenants, and at the same time would remove the Investment Boost tax policy, which is the very thing that Treasury says will drive future wage growth. I care deeply about the cost of living, but it is not enough to care; that member needs to come up with serious policies on the cost of living if she wants to be taken seriously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fce778143716634def79fc6f23a1c674\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister impatient to know how Barbara Edmonds thinks she\u2019d ever pay for anything\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022949ad769de3499fc8e8384b070599918\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002253e8d26e05e6e1c9edf8164da3a75f3e\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and did the Thomas Coughlan interview help her at all?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002239e91282346bc280a0a5c8ff03204c2d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. Greg Fleming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af0196dae2bf11e905047e4e4240b7b8\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Close\u2014Ryan Hamilton, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa284b3bd1f7b1df35201fa758fba19\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, sorry\u2014my apologies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e84b8734ae9ca88aa437a535465c6a6\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022733955ce06236cc77bb99db7e9b122d4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a long way back there, yeah.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022baa950a39b59f242b7d448036a336af1\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: He is available, though.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef76d352fc27c8bbe3e934d12cb6aa17\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Ryan Hamilton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cc777bf7781f759dfea6dffb77f4e99d\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Is annual CPI inflation in New Zealand ever negative?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb1cc0397b3e9e851fdf45113dfc567b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Annual CPI inflation is almost never negative, which is to say that, overall, prices don\u2019t reduce across the economy, on average, and Governments don\u2019t target a drop in the overall price level, because that would lead to people reducing spending and investing, and jobs would be lost and the economy would suffer. Inflation did turn mildly negative in 1999, when the Asian financial crisis reduced the price of imports. Before that, you have to go back to 1946 to find another example of negative inflation. As I said before, Governments aim for positive, low, stable inflation, and it is tragic when they fail to achieve that because big price increases do get baked in, as they did under the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EQuestion time interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227217c174faa95dc127224c796a1d745f\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e4fa0eb3e0562d8624962bfd435bbe0c\u0022\u003EGrocery Prices\u2014Social Media Comments\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u002217ef02529db07b1af4206c4758cec3d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002217ef02529db07b1af4206c4758cec3d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (15:09)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to correct a statement that I made in the House regarding a social media post issued by Nicola Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a81fa9e9ad7bbb835179a4defeaad42\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240955245560dd10adafec9e0a33c047a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking in the House recently, I alluded to a Facebook post of Nicola Willis where she was unpacking some groceries, and I said that in Facebook post, she had committed to lowering grocery prices. I was mistaken. I should have referred to her press statements of 14 June 2023, 13 July 2023, 12 October 2023, her press conference on 27 August 2025, and her Facebook video in September 2025, all of which committed her to lowering grocery prices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022e858bab88b5a87fedff42088438ea842\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e858bab88b5a87fedff42088438ea842\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (15:09)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I think that is a misuse of the correction, because\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] Could I have my point of order heard in silence, because\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c46b5c8db4379c1cbadcf38bfd15ec3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You can start your point of order again, and it will be heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd018e808131c3e3017b83c8a98b8b76\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The statement which I asked to be corrected was that I had posted a video, and, clearly, the video that he has referred to did not make the statement that he claimed. The context for the things that he is quoting is quite different. It is about the goal of grocery reforms, and the goal of those reforms is quite clearly to make groceries cheaper. That is very different from issuing a campaign video promising that under National, food prices will drop. That was not a promise I made, and I resent being misrepresented in this House and then having him be cute about the fact that he did that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022ecea72e86a9130d231bd25654d478d15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ecea72e86a9130d231bd25654d478d15\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (15:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to the point of order, I\u2019m happy to quote directly from the press statement that I\u2019ve just mentioned\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e11fb868edbbdf054b518b48e5e4c15b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b92ffd40b745a21b1d045a3890c4dd90\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014where Nicola Willis said she was\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f79b5bbaa25672acdd9cc0af3114ccd9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No hang on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3626ecf92302b926b5d22630159fb13\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014committing to Kiwis paying less\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293f3b5d98d165f681c7719896720e752\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, thank you\u2014that\u2019s enough. Don\u2019t do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002235b7fa3e530fcc810ac4631498bd5a8b\u0022\u003EOral Questions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e3fe96888aa769f0236090fc7940ca3b\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b0aef1694b2d172b8e0c4244a7b0a0c4\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000235\u0022\u003EQuestion time resumed. \u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022b5a6a6a371138b2d5bf6316cfa76a0a8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b5a6a6a371138b2d5bf6316cfa76a0a8\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast) (15:11)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen from the Ministry of Social Development on the traffic light system? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00224861d00f4933d3059351e52de8b749bf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224861d00f4933d3059351e52de8b749bf\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (15:11)\u003C/span\u003E: Today, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) released an excellent report which reinforces the success of the Government\u2019s traffic light system. It shows that 90 percent of clients found the traffic light system has been helpful for understanding their obligations. These obligations include attending interviews and seminars, reporting to MSD, and being available for work. Our Government is committed to fixing the basics and building the future by supporting more New Zealanders off welfare and into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fe5382a1bae01211cd8430a5042db62\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What were the key findings of the report?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022808e838abc6f75cbe63299486f8c47c8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: MSD also found that nearly 99 percent of clients are fulfilling their obligations and the number of sanctions has dropped by 10.6 percent between the September 2024 and September 2025 quarters. The changes we have made have increased client activity and engagement with MSD. This includes a focus on ensuring jobseeker support clients are meeting their obligations. Our Government will continue to support unemployed New Zealanders into work, and having a more proactive welfare system is a really important part of this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022245932bf48a287868c33e8b191b23cd8\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: How has the traffic light system helped people understand their obligations?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206723d0d2883c8643234d304432df580\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The traffic light system was designed to reset the expectations for those on welfare so that they\u2019re clear about both their rights and their responsibilities. It is helping job seekers to understand and navigate their obligations, helping them to be prepared and proactive and to seize work opportunities when they come along. The colour-coded communication tool is useful because it helps clients re-comply quickly. This has been especially helpful for clients with literacy challenges or language barriers. We know that economic times continue to be challenging, but we want people to be ready as the jobs come. The traffic light system reinforces that expectation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eac04e5898b0bce8d6493db317894db8\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: What other initiatives is the Government implementing to help people into work?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022823716aec6065d8777e2ed3b0e9f2059\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The traffic light system is just one part of our wider Welfare that Works programme. Our Government continues to support job seekers into work, with investment into MSD\u2019s front line. We\u2019ve also introduced phone-based case management, supporting 10,000 more people in case management at any time. We\u2019ve also improved the way MSD works with businesses to provide opportunities for job seekers to gain employment. The changes that we have made ensure our welfare system proactively supports those who can work to get off welfare, and we know that work is one of the best ways to lift people out of hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e148112b3302285e0553688aee6b2bb3\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218d1ea2f66da06d3af096463185bded8\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022 data-id=\u00225b0c78071996361a6956a605ab209ac0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b0c78071996361a6956a605ab209ac0\u0022\u003ECHL\u00D6E SWARBRICK (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (15:14)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDoes he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u0022daf051c57fe7e9f51ab6e866ddfcbeb2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022daf051c57fe7e9f51ab6e866ddfcbeb2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (15:14)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e8a7e97b4f86deb4dc295b451bf165\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Prime Minister aware of how many people, including children, have been kept or made homeless as a result of his Government\u2019s decisions to tighten access to emergency housing, implement benefit sanctions, and more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2b8a92222cbe46e502f97043741a511\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said to the member before, I\u2019m very proud that we\u2019ve made house purchasing more affordable. Rents have come down, I think 6,000 or 7,000 people have come off the social housing wait-list, and, when I last looked, 2,100 children had been moved out of emergency housing into proper, dry homes, and there\u2019s big investment going in and support happening in homeless situations, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f38201b50547c79eb1741c48319c8d24\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister did not address the question, which was whether he is tracking any data on how many people have been made homeless or kept in homelessness as a result of the Government\u2019s decisions to tighten access to emergency housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224da20c4381502de6a273df024e69101\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think it would be pretty unreasonable to listen to the data that he\u2019s just given and not conclude that there\u2019s some analysis been done on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231d6c9a35bb7879e10d0cf349a6a8791\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, and respectfully, Mr Speaker, that data is unrelated. You can count data with regard\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224930820cfc8fd0345ee47d5adbec0df3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, with all due respect\u2014sorry. Through the questions, I\u2019m not getting into a discussion with you about the merits of an answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f3dc1fe96ef979f1ae8efb9289fc1d1\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Prime Minister then accept the data that shows that homelessness has increased across the country, and doubling in Auckland alone, since his Government made decisions to tighten access to emergency housing?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ecbc9623298da4ba341e20ceb30749f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve said to the member before, our record on housing is much better than that member\u2019s, when homelessness went up 37 percent and $1 billion was spent. What we see is housing affordability for people who can afford to buy a house, we see rents coming down, we\u2019ve seen 6,000 people come off the social housing wait-list and 2,124 kids come out of squalid motels and into proper homes, we\u2019ve seen rents that are actually stable to falling, and, importantly, at last count, Auckland Council, as I understand, is doing daily counts of rough sleepers. There are about 30 in the Auckland CBD, and the good news is that of the 300 Housing First places that we\u2019ve made available, 203 have been tenanted and 13 have signed leases. So our action plan to make sure that we can support and deal with homelessness in the Auckland CBD, in particular, is making good progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230327252109ae4cff6bea1495ce4a612\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Where does he expect those experiencing homelessness who have been denied support because of his Government\u2019s decisions to tighten the criteria on emergency housing\u2014as in their having contributed to their own homelessness\u2014to go if they end up being issued with his intended move-on orders, other than to the next shop front, the next park, or the next cemetery?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0275ace8bf1a8d302dd06f4bab199c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, in answer to the first part of the question, this is a Government that spends $515 million a year with different agencies and organisations supporting homeless folk; it\u2019s a Government that spends $5 billion a year on total housing support. But, again, with respect to the move-on orders\u2014and as the member would have found in the difficulty of leading homelessness and having a 37 percent increase when they were in Government\u2014I\u2019d just say that every situation is different and they\u2019re complex situations. Our police now have tools around the move-on orders. They also are well aware of the social service agencies and are well-connected and will plug people into them as need be. But we trust our police, they\u2019ve developed outstanding operational guidelines on gang patches, and we expect similar here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0eeed9e07469c71d1f8fef5105b2419\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave of the House to table internal guidance circulated amongst MSD staff on the criteria to decline emergency housing applications from members of the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229438267456fb6e5dccf6d9a078e3041b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Is that a publicly available document?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228aa33babbb3219895be65007d00e673b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269a7de1955e08516e46bdb42b3729b03\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d9fb2fbfea46de6fdfd0b9e62e9265b\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: If he ignored advice and concerns from social service providers and experts that reducing access to emergency housing would result in more homelessness and then went ahead with it anyway and we saw more homelessness, will he then take the advice of social service providers and experts that his move-on orders will only exacerbate the problems associated with homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d041f9522d988495bac44fd21305e4e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said to the member, I would put this Government\u2019s record up against the Labour-Greens Government\u2019s record, when there was a 37 percent increase in homelessness and $1 billion being spent on emergency housing. I\u2019m proud of the progress that we\u2019ve made, and I\u2019m proud of the fact that our homeless action plan is starting to pay a benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225085ca220c7902229b159713b2405516\u0022\u003EEnergy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb63f03eb6fe515a3809a0b90b6ce8a9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c733fd21d4334f2af51a92523790e1a0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c733fd21d4334f2af51a92523790e1a0\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram) (15:18)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Energy\u003C/span\u003E: Has he received advice on the impact of high levels of rooftop solar and household batteries on wholesale markets and distribution network costs; if so, what were the recommendations in that advice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u00223779008e7e5218dd7b84651b4c0580ec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223779008e7e5218dd7b84651b4c0580ec\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy) (15:19)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have received advice on the impacts of high levels of rooftop solar and household batteries on wholesale markets and distribution costs. It identified potential benefits to household bills, while also requiring significant investment in the grid. That is why the Government is making a number of regulatory changes to make it easier to install rooftop solar and batteries. This includes removing building consent requirements for installing rooftop solar and batteries, and mandating retailers to pay fair price for electricity sold back into the grid from 1 July, along with a number of other regulatory changes to make it easier and cheaper to install rooftop solar and batteries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022443597cc78f6e7d485d2e9a995c35ebc\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment official advice in the regulatory impact statement on incentivising residential solar generation and sustainable buildings, which said of the changes that he has just outlined that \u201Cthe incentive effect is not clear and [is] expected to be minor.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226bd440654b8ca9af144c3c7bbe1c9fa2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: It would be fair to acknowledge that we considered a long list of options, including renewables, demand response, and new thermal plant. The challenge that we have as a country is that in a dry year, we do not have sufficient fuel to make power, and we need a solution to deal with that problem. The solution which we have landed on took into account cost, time to deliver, flexibility, and the spillover effects to the other parts of the economy, and that is why we landed on the decision that we have made and not other options.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4bbe8a24721e134b24020275442961\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he sought advice this week on the relative impacts on wholesale electricity prices of importing LNG compared with increasing the uptake on distributed solar generation; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228343047769de34ea6c413a0bcaa34c79\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the reality is\u2014and I\u2019m happy to provide a little bit more context for the member\u2014that this Government isn\u2019t intending to import LNG to replace natural gas, or for it to be imported regularly enough to see it set the gas price overall. LNG is simply a backup option to be imported during dry years. The alternative is that we have no fuel to make electricity, and that was the policy which we inherited, which drove power prices in 2024 to over $800 per megawatt hour and put New Zealand businesses and New Zealanders out of business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220828123635714547ca17e882971dbb3c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think it\u2019s responsible to expose New Zealanders to a volatile gas market where in the last few hours, European LNG prices have jumped more than 50 percent, with projections of 130 percent spikes to come?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257d5b249593c5fc06e81ce4b8affaa86\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I think is irresponsible is to pursue energy policy which incurs blackouts for New Zealanders because we do not have fuel to make electricity in a dry year, and that is the situation which we inherited as a Government. We have taken decisive action to import fuel for those dry years as an insurance policy, and as a result we\u2019ve seen that future energy prices in this country, subsequent to our announcements, have a downward trajectory, which is positive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223aa522f4f337fe678daf7495ebe72a9f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he or anyone in his office shared advice or costings prepared by his officials on solar options with the National Party and/or anyone involved in writing National Party policy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b810eaf2c6e4b90c0595e290e286c2eb\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: We have a range of advice regarding solar and batteries that is under active consideration, and when it is no longer under active consideration, then that will be released.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022303b4d0a840f5ca347e5838f9f322a68\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked a very direct question, asking whether the Minister or anyone in his office had shared any of that advice or costings with the National Party or with anyone who is involved in writing National Party policy. It\u2019s a pretty simple question, and it deserves a straight answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a069fed11b8faf94031ed3f138a2cd07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you got a straight answer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200c76d8247d3ed5c1ca4c37e55704000\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: No, I didn\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c0dad8671f3ab8ab5404be60d6d29188\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, you did. He said that once stuff was outside of active consideration it would be released, but, clearly, not released before that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022760329c28482518d76c70119ff255b6f\u0022\u003EChildren\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002239cae0bcf276a4a155b7c00127fa69a6\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e78c34dfef9a267bd692d6e94ae3525f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e78c34dfef9a267bd692d6e94ae3525f\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT) (15:23)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Children\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen regarding youth justice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022 data-id=\u002255ca4be79f53eb66e0f685fa7a235cc9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255ca4be79f53eb66e0f685fa7a235cc9\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children) (15:23)\u003C/span\u003E: I have seen the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYouth Justice Indicators Summary Report\u003C/span\u003E from February 2026, which shows a reduction in youth involved in the justice system. We are seeing fewer young people enter the justice system for the first time. I have also seen a briefing from Oranga Tamariki with more recent data that shows that Government Target 3 for reducing child and youth offending has decreased by 22 percent. This is against a target of 15 percent by 2030. I want to thank Oranga Tamariki staff for the lead they have taken in achieving this result, alongside their colleagues at Police and other agencies, to ensure there are timely, coordinated, and proper responses to youth offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022420c682ff041d7af06b36d17413f6b55\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What is the overall trend for child and youth offending under her leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9f3592c499cdb6cf21beaffaee3317b\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: This is the third consecutive drop from the previous quarters, and it shows a consistent downward trend in serious and persistent youth offending by children and young people. The downward trend remains positive and continues to exceed expectations. It is also consistent across the majority of the country, with drops of 20 percent or more in eight of the 12 police districts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f26c3a9ed594be14fd9a556f61968da\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Minister satisfied now that the target has been met ahead of schedule?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a99cd1aa2cfa59bc154aa041ea4dc092\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely not. Just because we have achieved the target well ahead of expectations, it doesn\u2019t mean we stop now. Every young person deserves the opportunity to be the best version of themselves. The great thing about collecting this data and reporting on it regularly means that we can see where we need to focus our resources and efforts to continue achieving success. For example, when the data indicates some parts of the country aren\u2019t doing as well as others, Oranga Tamariki is able to respond quickly and work alongside police at a regional level to respond.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ed070a6e5fc4a9d9d4c0fc24c6565b6\u0022\u003ETodd Stephenson\u003C/span\u003E: What does the Minister put this success down to?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8a764bd6f9f33926dda76b2b97306a9\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: Labour\u2019s fast-track policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229591e023ace6766c04c6029609f48dd0\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There are a number of initiatives that have contributed to this success\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022599890a2bb648c96436058ed97c58a45\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you love fast track now?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223beb0fc5feb31dda6fba16950c3872b\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014such as the intensive case management teams and the Fast Track youth offending programme, which I acknowledge the previous Government started\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257535ea0fc1f7a9af092a2903b0511d3\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment\u2014sorry, Minister. There\u2019s only one person answering a question and there are no other discussions going on in the House. Two people are in that discussion, and they\u2019ll both be going outside to continue it, if they wish to. Please start again\u2014the Hon Karen Chhour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d0c5a6cae8ea09ae384fb1cf871077f\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. There are a number of initiatives that have contributed to this success, such as intensive case management teams and the Fast Track youth offending programme, which I acknowledge was started by the previous Government. This Government took what was working with the Fast Track programme and increased its funding by $30.6 million in Budget 2024 to continue and expand the programme to 14- to 17-year-olds in Hamilton, Auckland, Rotorua, and Christchurch. This is all the result of a Government that is fixing what matters and is investing in these young people and their families, and is also focused on the victims of crime and on keeping our community safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220235aceb8721aaf44f5692920d07a817\u0022\u003EEconomic Growth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8f527626aefc60fd4c59887c37b685a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u002259bf1fd69d7b8177347bf85416527475\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002259bf1fd69d7b8177347bf85416527475\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour) (15:27)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Economic Growth\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement, \u201Cfor every New Zealander who is unemployed and wishes to have a job: our Government is on your side\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022fb1c4bf5a065cb61bd739d7909766a9e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fb1c4bf5a065cb61bd739d7909766a9e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister for Economic Growth) (15:27)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. This Government is on the side of New Zealanders who want to work and get ahead. That is why we have been focused on restoring the economic conditions needed for job creation. That is also why we have supported the fast-tracking of job-rich projects, why we have supported the Investment Boost tax relief, and why we have taken action to reduce red tape and restore confidence across a range of industries from farming through to the film sector and through to tourism.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222823961b69c34a85b0faf343d99e7e8e\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is she on the side of the nearly 10,000 Wellingtonians who face 10,000 fewer jobs under her economic plan?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022767c22ebbb4dec15e9f1806308d965e0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I think the number that the member is referring to relies on an analysis by Craig Renney, the shadow finance spokesperson for the Labour Party\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224452e7fe59d87a0c3dcc51305ffae480\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014sorry. Start again without the added little bit of a barb. You can\u2019t refer to someone who is outside the House in that tone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd6b89683bdbaa8e17fcd46138c7f207\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the member is relying on statistics from a source I\u2019d consider unreliable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002224337d37b89926450e664d0fde7291c1\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is she on the side of the 39,570 construction workers now on jobseeker support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c6e6da6198edb96e6fa697540fac8e4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I am absolutely on the side of those in the construction sector who wish to see more employment. That is why, unlike that member, I supported the fast track bill to ensure that job-rich construction projects can happen sooner so that people can have shovels in the ground rather than be swapping papers in court, that is why we have been on the side of replacing the Resource Management Act so that more construction can happen in future, that is why we have invested in job-rich public infrastructure projects, and it is why I stand by the Reserve Bank\u2019s mandate, which has ensured that not only has inflation come down but interest rates have dropped considerably, meaning that construction projects that might have stayed on the shelf have been dusted off and are turning into action. That\u2019s where construction jobs come from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260e34a92523eb2f648b875c1c714d6f1\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Is she on the side of the 165,000 New Zealanders who want a job and can\u2019t get one; if so, why did she call them impatient?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ed60f432403b6be3a6cd938d054c27\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I absolutely stand on the side of anyone who wants to work hard and get ahead, and, as I\u2019ve said in my answer to the primary question, that\u2019s why we, as a Government, have worked so hard on restoring the economic conditions needed for job creation. I hope the member joins me in welcoming the fact that the latest statistics show that in the December quarter, 15,000 more New Zealanders were employed. I hope the member also joins me in celebrating today\u2019s news from the tourism sector that thousands more jobs have been created in that sector over the past year alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203eeed0756af23da4754ce13c4daac10\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: How can she be on the side of unemployed New Zealanders when she is destroying jobs, pushing people on to jobseeker support, dismissing them as being impatient, and driving them offshore to other countries for a better wage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e603c05d29d1faa51f125ca6c724ea0d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: There are many aspects of that question that would make it out of order, but the Minister may respond, if she wishes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e715809d70a4753d0407a45ec9fb798\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Multiple statements in that question were wrong.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fe34aa4a6aa3d9a2710be041e7aa269e\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022490d99aa3a19ab87f7bc2b7914735f89\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022 data-id=\u0022db62221a83263d379242a264e1c4d43d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022db62221a83263d379242a264e1c4d43d\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei) (15:31)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EAssociate Minister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has he made about RNZAF Base Ohakea? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8d266b3a7a17e6df210ec6b403950e2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8d266b3a7a17e6df210ec6b403950e2\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Associate Minister of Transport) (15:31)\u003C/span\u003E I have recently confirmed the Government\u2019s move to make RNZAF Base Ohakea available 24/7 as an alternative runway for wide-body aircraft, resolving a longstanding constraint for airlines, and one which has been a handbrake on New Zealand\u2019s economic growth. Currently, Ohakea can\u2019t be used as an alternative airport overnight when flights need to divert, due to lack of air traffic control after hours. This means wide-body aircraft coming in from overseas must designate an alternative airport, which requires them to carry more fuel and fewer passengers. This has directly resulted in some airlines downgrading their capacity and limiting growth. To fix this, we have approved funding for Airways New Zealand to provide round-the-clock air traffic control services. Opening up Ohakea 24/7 was one of the key actions within the Aviation Action Plan, and I\u2019m proud to see it delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a4212bb41f9b9226ef3149fd50128e06\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What feedback has he seen about how this will support tourism growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222aaf1fc91704576d5b716fe8838a80b2\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: The Board of Airline Representatives head Cath O\u2019Brien said the 24/7 capability is a common-sense move from our Government. She said airlines are delighted by the decision, saying, \u201CIt gives confidence that our country is open for business and will make a meaningful difference for airlines operating here today and for those considering New Zealand as a destination.\u201D; Chief of Air Force Air Vice-Marshal Darryn Webb welcomed the enhancement to the support that the air force and Base Ohakea already provide to airlines when flights are unable to land at Auckland or Christchurch; and I\u2019m aware that the local MP thinks the announcement is \u201Cawesome\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d629f9957463c7ffbe7dda45da6b0ee0\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What other infrastructure investments has the Government made in aviation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221259aaf35f2cf0b3df86843d17d23cf\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: In addition to our Ohakea investment, we are also investing $1.1 million from the regional connectivity package to the first concessionary loan to Golden Bay Air. This loan will ensure that the regional airline can refinance existing aircraft debt and fund essential ongoing major maintenance checks. The targeted relief will support it to maintain flights from T\u0101kaka to Nelson, Karamea, and Wellington, and I\u2019d like to thank Ministers Jones, Willis, and all the other regional development group Ministers for their support for these important regional routes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227e7bb8a44e7d8585340b6d0a5cd97553\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: What other announcements has he made about aviation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260b9ce6c3093ab6549a86430a8424d5d\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: More good news in this space: the Ohakea decision marked the 10th achievement in our Aviation Action Plan, which was launched just under six months ago. Other achievements include assisting flight schools to update and speed up pilot training programmes to better align with the needs of airlines, delivering new advanced aviation rules to provide a sand box for innovation testing and growth, and developing industry-led recommendations to deal with ongoing workforce issues to be progressed by the Aviation Council. Finally, additionally, last year we announced $3.35 million in investment for Whanganui Airport to complete construction of the new sealed parallel taxiway. This will address longstanding safety issues by reducing the need for aircraft to backtrack on the active runway before take-off and after landing. It\u2019s great to be part of a Government that is committed to fixing the basics and building the future of our aviation sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a2d0c99acb5f63d0cfc7579520a1efd\u0022\u003EScience, Innovation and Technology\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db456ddba51e37c209de80c3f91a2d89\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022 data-id=\u0022ef5cc7c42cd7bc9da8e0aee98414ee7f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ef5cc7c42cd7bc9da8e0aee98414ee7f\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East) (15:34)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Science, Innovation and Technology\u003C/span\u003E: How does the Bioeconomy Science Institute cutting 134 jobs, including 86 science roles, less than a year after it was formed fuel economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u0022f62b82e821c1311a33e6276837de65f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f62b82e821c1311a33e6276837de65f7\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Science, Innovation and Technology) (15:34)\u003C/span\u003E: The Bioeconomy Science Institute performs an important role in supporting the growth and development of New Zealand\u2019s biological sector, but it will only be effective if it\u2019s operating on a financially sustainable footing. I\u2019m advised that the Bioeconomy Science Institute carefully assessed every application to ensure the institute retains the capability, expertise, and continuity needed to deliver impactful science and contribute to economic growth. The Bioeconomy Science Institute brought together four Crown research institutes with subsequently identified areas of overlap and duplication. I note this has been a voluntary redundancy round, and operational decisions about staffing sit with the Bioeconomy Science Institute board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f9436eac710acf8a07846fe7ae780079\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Are these job cuts consistent with addressing the long-term underinvestment identified by his Science System Advisory Group?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236045dace78060ecbf122df48879bcb6\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: These steps are consistent with requiring our science system to be productive, to be efficient, to be sustainable, and to generate real value for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c835547043d6390f9e95d58bf78ce83\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he then take responsibility for these job cuts occurring because he has left the science sector underfunded?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfe3a531d4b07285c933bec21c9990e6\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m encouraged by the last Stats NZ report, which actually showed that there are more scientists than we\u2019ve had previously, and also new opportunities for science through the new emerging technologies with the Institute for Advanced Technology through artificial intelligence, through quantum, and through magnetic materials; through the Robinson Research Institute; and the $42 million Biodiscovery Platform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247da917bfcc439afdb7d5a69c92fdded\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: When he cut Callaghan Innovation, ransacked the Marsden Fund, and is now cutting 134 jobs from the new science institute, where can New Zealanders expect the next round of job losses to come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298e94382492a9980de6e6444c3ff5b63\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: I reject that member\u2019s assertions, but, again, I return to the fact that the science system will need to be productive, efficient, financially sustainable, and generate real value for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c5a762a3ab6cf8f3360335addc9170f2\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Parliamentary Commissioner for the Environment been proven right when he warned that it is seldom worth such upheavals due to the \u201Closs in productivity and morale\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002293387cbdbd9d760579a08b7612192218\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI\u003C/span\u003E: Considering we\u2019re still progressing through the science reforms, that\u2019s a decision and an analysis to be had at the end of the reforms, but I have high expectations and I\u2019m encouraged by the reforms to date.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022904d51606ebaf20351d021e988456d56\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022325fb3d4ad63c4e14c4651b4420cb580\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u002201b0ba464781e97590c24d05c060ad97\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201b0ba464781e97590c24d05c060ad97\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (15:37)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDoes he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u00227d387ece8a73783e3cca99c02f7fd51d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d387ece8a73783e3cca99c02f7fd51d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (15:37)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f2a95224c7d22288b42f297e9dbbaab\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he think New Zealanders are comfortable with the 12 to 14 percent of our children\u2014roughly, the population of Tauranga\u2014living in poverty?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268b5b4bb3d013c0a4cf15aea3e79cd8a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No New Zealander wants to see children living in poverty; again, that is why this Government is doing everything it can to grow the economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022197dca9a9d633e532daa7e137f70e83e\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain to the House what kinds of choices wh\u0101nau in hardship face, such as whether to go visit the doctor or buy fresh veggies, or whether to turn the heating on or buy school supplies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d35fc0fba7fa83a95f33a077a8b0b11b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: It has no doubt been a very difficult and tough time for many New Zealanders, and that is why, if you care about low and middle income working New Zealanders, you run the economy, and you don\u2019t create high inflation and put an economy into recession.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa65d6ff34112dd616086e74a9fe90d4\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Can he explain to the House what kinds of choices his Government faces in trying to meet National\u2019s election promise to halve hardship rates by 2028, such as increasing the minimum wage in line with inflation or restricting access to benefits, or supporting better access to public and emergency housing or criminalising homelessness?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002248279504f58236a0fcbabec818bedb5e\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the characterisation of that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe85d414db0a9db0e259f1e2af7a37b0\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the Children\u2019s Commissioner that \u201CChildren cannot wait for our economy to improve. Children get one chance at childhood, and we\u2019ve got to act and get this right now.\u201D, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022989feb9452208e5706ffd93c767888bd\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s why this Government is working incredibly hard to control spending so that we lower inflation, lower interest rates, get the economy growing, and get people into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9472342e97af52cb543a69f61a1651f\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Have any of his Government\u2019s policies or actions contributed to an increase in child material hardship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287b2b0a709527b264b4cd8555b2961db\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, this Government\u2019s actions to control spending and lower inflation are incredibly helpful for Kiwis that have been doing it tough: 3.1 percent inflation is better than 7.3 percent; nine interest rate falls are better than 12 interest rate rises; economic growth in the last quarter of 1.1 percent is better than a shrinking economy; and, certainly, we know we\u2019ve got work to do as we want to see more people come out of unemployment and into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292febae55a5199a04b9fad33571c19ef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes question time. We\u2019ll take 30 seconds to allow members to go off to the other business that they have to transact this afternoon.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fea550cddc2639f89834ec74c53dd09a\u0022\u003EVote Correction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f5673c9fea4436e76596d67ab66539c7\u0022\u003EEnvironment (Disestablishment of Ministry for the Environment) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002293044093dfe9206a7b599dbed4ac5aa4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002293044093dfe9206a7b599dbed4ac5aa4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (15:40)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, on 19 February, on the vote on the closure motion relating to the instruction to the Environment Committee on the consideration of the Environment (Disestablishment of Ministry for the Environment) Amendment Bill, the Green Party vote was incorrectly announced by the Green Party whip as 15 votes against; it should have been recorded as 13. The correct result is Ayes 68, Noes 53.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e99b31da20abb1c4f3a25982735e8882\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237c8c5cdc2b5df3bf7c90c7df1b2e412\u0022\u003EEnglish Language Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002205ec6bd53db3e1bfa3c4f80c4dff9dc2\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000356\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 19 February.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab58e8be9fe1a4c4478f32fc8571298b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab58e8be9fe1a4c4478f32fc8571298b\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (15:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. If ever we wanted a bill or an example that could demonstrate the weakness of the Prime Minister, this is it. The English Language Bill: a waste of time, a waste of resources, and a clear example\u2014when the lead Minister himself said that the National Party would not have done this and the only reason they\u2019re doing it is because New Zealand First asked for it\u2014that the whole time that Christopher Luxon went around the country during the election campaign and told everyone that he was a master negotiator, all he has proved himself to be is a massive blowhard. He talks about himself all the time, about how good he is, about what he\u2019s going to do, and fails at every step. The fact of the matter was that New Zealand First and ACT had nowhere else to go. They were always going to work with National. Instead of proving the thing that he promised New Zealanders he would do and being a good negotiator, his negotiation tactic was \u201CWhat do you want? You got it.\u201D This is the result.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt turns out that the justification for this bill, according to Winston Peters, is that the English language is under threat. Now, that is a dog whistle if ever I\u2019ve heard one. That is scaremongering. It is cynical politics, and, frankly, we can do without it in this country. The English language is not under threat. All they want to do is secure their rump of the vote that gets triggered by comments like that, that actually believes that nonsense, despite no evidence being provided\u2014no evidence. If the English language was under threat, do you not think that someone that had been in this Parliament for 40 years, speaking English the entire time, would not want to present some evidence to Parliament to justify these claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are two official languages in this country, te reo M\u0101ori and Sign Language, and I don\u2019t know either of them, yet every word that I have uttered for the sole existence of my time on this planet, people have understood me. Right throughout school, right throughout university, all my jobs, my entire time here at Parliament, every single word\u2014every single individual word\u2014that I have uttered, everyone has understood. But, apparently, that is under threat. Apparently, the status of the English language\u2014derived from England, where it isn\u2019t even an official language\u2014is under threat.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is nonsense, it isn\u2019t true, and all we are doing is having to put up in a parliamentary sense because Christopher Luxon gave in to this demand from New Zealand First. He could have said no. Christopher Luxon could have said, when they asked for the English Language Bill, \u201CNo, we\u2019re not going to do that.\u201D What would their response have been? \u201CAll right. Fair enough. We\u2019ll move on.\u201D They were going to go with them anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvery week since becoming Prime Minister, Christopher Luxon has proven that he\u2019s out of touch and not up to the job. Here we are, at a time where the cost of living is the biggest issue facing this country, where people are out of work, where we have communities ravaged by severe weather, where we have international issues facing this country that are as significant as any that we have seen in living memory, and this is what the Government wants to put through Parliament. I think it\u2019s disgraceful. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is unnecessary. This is not needed. All this does is to give New Zealand First a platform to try and get re-elected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022348481190fccc66e7df02746e801127b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022348481190fccc66e7df02746e801127b\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula) (15:45)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKia ora, Madam Speaker. Ka whakatakoto au i te pire ki te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThank you, Madam Speaker. I commend the bill to the House\u003C/span\u003E.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand subsequently indicated that had a party vote on the first reading been held, it would have cast 15 votes opposed\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224c880b62c48cd1a1e32b368081124543\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u00224ed5169e8742497e3ef726f78348e3b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224ed5169e8742497e3ef726f78348e3b4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh) (15:45)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the English Language Bill be considered by the Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216c3822d02701e9c4b0095e240d1d836\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf7f7ae6780cc2524e9bb0f0923b882f\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022113d19b88c90d5ce8c793646cb89d98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022113d19b88c90d5ce8c793646cb89d98d\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (15:46)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Social Security Act 2018 to address a decision by the Social Security Appeal Authority on how the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) treats certain ACC payments in relation to a past period, and a decision from the High Court on the effective backdated ACC payments on someone\u2019s beneficiary status. I\u2019d like to acknowledge everyone who submitted on this bill and the Social Services and Community Committee, who have reported back on what they\u2019ve heard. I am pleased to advise that as a result of this consultation, we have made change to this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand has a targeted welfare system. It provides support to people who have no alternatives, provided they have relied on all other resources available, including financial support from other publicly funded sources. Charging income against the period it best represents has been a longstanding policy in the welfare system to ensure a person\u2019s income is charged accurately against their entitlement. This is important as people can receive income that relates to different periods for many reasons. MSD currently does this by charging income over the period that it best represents, which is generally the period the person earned or became entitled to the income, or, where this is unidentifiable, the period it was received. In doing so, MSD may find that overpayments have occurred and recoverable debt should be established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, in 2024, the Social Security Appeal Authority found that MSD did not consider all the relevant factors when exercising its discretion to determine the correct period to charge income. This decision impacts the way all income is treated in the welfare system and does not align with the principles of how income is charged in the welfare system. This bill addresses this decision by amending the Social Security Act\u00A02018 so that when calculating a person\u2019s weekly income, including ACC income, MSD must determine the period the income relates to, based on only the extent to which the person earned or became entitled to it in that period. If this is not possible, MSD must determine the appropriate period to charge that income, having regard to the period for which it was received, acquired, paid, provided, or supplied. This is an important change to ensure income continues to be charged accurately for the many people who receive income that relates to different periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s always been the welfare system\u2019s longstanding principle that welfare support is targeted to those in need where those needs have not been met\u2014that is, by other sources such as ACC compensation. MSD does this currently when a person\u2019s income reduces their main benefit to zero by considering the person a non-beneficiary, which would remove their eligibility for some supplementary assistance. If this happens for a past period, MSD may determine that an overpayment has occurred and that a debt be established. For a person who is in this scenario due to a backdated ACC payment, MSD may seek a refund from ACC for any financial assistance that was overpaid for the past period that their ACC payment related to. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned, last year, the High Court found that MSD was operating outside of existing legislative authority when reassessing a person\u2019s entitlement to supplementary assistance after they receive a backdated ACC payment for a past period. This decision creates inequities between ACC recipients, based on when they receive their ACC payment relative to their assessment for welfare support. It means that MSD cannot retrospectively consider a person to be a non-beneficiary even if that person received income from ACC that made them not entitled to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBeing a beneficiary generally means a person is eligible for more or entitled to greater amounts of supplementary assistance when compared to a non-beneficiary. This only relates to people receiving a backdated ACC payment. People who receive weekly ACC compensation would continue to be treated as a non-beneficiary if their weekly compensation exceeded the main benefit limit. This bill addresses the High Court decision by amending the Social Security Act 2018 so that when a person receives a backdated ACC payment, MSD must review specified supplementary assistance granted for that past period and treat the person as a non-beneficiary for their specified benefit reduced to zero. MSD may make changes to the person\u2019s entitlement as part of this review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is an important amendment to ensure that ACC recipients can continue to be treated equitably. There shouldn\u2019t be a difference between those who receive weekly payments and backdated payments, and support must remain targeted to those whose needs have not been met by other sources, including ACC compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill acknowledges the important public interest for this longstanding policy to be accurately reflected in the law and to mitigate any flow-on financial and operational impacts. This bill will do so by introducing legislation that has a retrospective effect. I want to reassure members of this House and the public that this bill preserves the law as interpreted by the Social Security Appeal Authority and the High Court for previous or ongoing litigation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a4c1da1cfa79836e1df0491997352fc\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Only in the Social Security Appeal Authority\u2014six cases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c653892c8783e906f4bc83ef8e4b8155\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014which maintains the convention that Parliament should generally not interfere with the judicial process for particular cases before the courts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe member interjecting might want to listen to the next part. As a result of the select committee process, I have proposed a change to this bill. Currently, the savings provision in this bill only captures individuals who have lodged an appeal with the Social Security Appeal Authority or courts prior to the date of introduction. I am now proposing to also capture individuals who have made an application to MSD for a review of decision to the benefits review committee that has not been decided before the date of introduction. This ensures that all individuals who are actively seeking a review of their decision prior to the introduction of the bill will be treated in accordance with the decisions of the appeal authority and High Court. I respect and thank the members of the select committee, who worked diligently to ensure that we were able to improve the bill. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220c740cc7b630fc177435589cbdb217e5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u002289d79c95a01dcae787f3f6df55810bff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002289d79c95a01dcae787f3f6df55810bff\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) (15:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Again, I acknowledge the Minister for Social Development and Employment and apologise that we haven\u2019t caught up in the last 24 hours as we traverse this bill, and appreciate some of the changes that she is talking about. We were also very appreciative of the select committee process last week, though it was still far too short, but at least it gave us an opportunity to hear a lot of the people out there. We got, I think, over 850 or 900 submissions that came in. It was an opportunity to hear the different communities and the angst out there. We do appreciate you\u2019ve been working constructively with us and supported the select committee last week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour agrees with the important principle at stake here: to ensure those needing support\u2014the talk, though, about double-dipping is a controversial k\u014Drero and, I think, maybe flipped the bed a bit last week, because we certainly had some exceptional explanations. We do as a party agree to close the loophole. We think we need to close the loophole, and we\u2019re prepared to work with the Government in good faith. We\u2019re happy to work in terms of bipartisanship and shared agreements. However, the submissions last week raised serious concerns that we simply cannot ignore.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe reality is many clients of the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) who are waiting for an ACC payment are worse off when they\u2019ve been forced to receive a benefit to supplement their income and then it\u2019s clawed back, leaving the client with what is left; often with nothing; and, in many cases, in debt. It simply isn\u2019t fair that people, who have acted in good faith and have, for whatever reason, got an injury due to no fault of their own, are left in a worse situation when trying to seek support from MSD and ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMany sick and injured Kiwis took welfare payments while their ACC claims were being heard. They\u2019re also some of the poorest and hardest-working members of society. Many took those welfare payments because they had no other option while waiting for their ACC claim. They didn\u2019t know at all that they would face a claw-back and took the money in good conscience. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we must remember\u2014and sometimes people forget about these people; they\u2019re maybe people who people want to forget about\u2014these people are not criminals, yet the feeling that we picked up from some of the submitters is that they\u2019re made to feel like criminals when they\u2019re burdened with debt, and they really should be supported. If we retrospectively pass this law, we will suddenly criminalise many of them who need help, not debt. So for those who can\u2019t pay the claw-back, we believe we should allow MSD clear discretion not to recover payments when that would cause more hardship and further inequity. For those who must get rehab-related supplementary assistance because of the injury they\u2019ve sustained, they should not have to go into debt to recover. For those who have been the victims of abuse in State care, they should be exempt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat certainly would, I think, placate a lot of our people who made submissions. This is the House that has been unanimous from all sides of the House in terms of people who have endured abuse in State care. So we don\u2019t believe that that should be so hard for us as a House to consider. There\u2019ll be Kiwis who took the welfare while they waited for their ACC claim who can pay that debt, and they should pay it back, but it should not be at the expense of the people who need that support the most and are put in a worse situation when faced with a huge debt.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we acknowledge the loophole needs to be closed, but there has to be discretion. This is a view that we put forward from our side. I know other Opposition parties have that view too, but myself and my colleague Helen Clark\u2014Helen White\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ef50fdd7cae78838668073b62de1c9e\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Former MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d8c7623d3801fbac750de5b9df81fcd\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Former. Helen Clark would have supported it too\u2014but Helen White over here. We were quite adamant in terms of discretion being necessary, because these people took that money, believing they wouldn\u2019t pay it back, and many could be in an economic position that makes that debt claw-back very cruel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo Labour\u2019s prepared to work with National on this, but it has to be with the wellbeing of people at the centre. For example, how\u2019s a solo mum with three kids who has been paid welfare while waiting on an ACC claim going to pay back this new debt? I think that\u2019s an obvious question for everyone. We don\u2019t want MSD sending\u2014and this is how bad it could get\u2014in debt collectors to hound that woman and to hound that wh\u0101nau who are just in struggle street\u2014just in struggle street. So we need to be supportive of that, wh\u0101nau. We need to show some humanity here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, as I\u2019ve said about State care, what about people who\u2019ve been hurt or abused in State care and are filing under sensitive claims? Why make their trauma worse with a new debt? I\u2019m sure there\u2019ll be Kiwis who are wealthy enough to pay the debt back, and they should pay it back, but those too poor to pay require the amendment that I\u2019m talking about. We can\u2019t pass policy that actively hurts people, all because ACC are too slow to process claims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour stands ready to help the Government pass the bill because we acknowledge how important the issue is, but, just in summary, in the last two or three minutes I have, I just want to be clear, after the select committee process, with 850 submissions over 2\u00BD\u00A0days, serious problems became clear. ACC and the MSD have a deal: ACC deducts the full main benefit paid by MSD from the back-pay, sends that money to MSD, and the injured person gets what\u2019s left. MSD then treats the lump sum as income and moves to recover all payments it has made, not just the main benefits. This means injured people end up paying for themselves for rehab and other support that ACC should have funded from day one. That is just not acceptable. ACC has not been compensating MSD for those extra recovery costs, so the cost is pushed on to the injured person and MSD, not ACC. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClear evidence to our committee showed that those who are hit hardest are survivors of abuse in care, whose complex claims are often delayed for years, and blue collar and manual workers with gradual process injuries. In terms of the amendment that we are proposing and that we are putting in front of the Minister and that I certainly put forward during our committee process and that, I will say, was, well, maybe not accepted but people understood where we were coming from. Our proposed solution going forward is that we can only continue to support this bill if it is changed so that MSD has clear discretion not to recover supplementary payments where that would be unfair and inequitable. In particular, in hardship and fairness tests, MSD must not seek repayment where the person received payments in good faith and recovery would be unfair or cause hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll support the bill as long as we protect key supports and exclude disability allowance and other rehab-related supplementary assistance from being clawed back. Of course, we want to protect abuse survivors, so we want abuse in care survivors to be excluded from repayment. ACC lawyers have advised that safeguards like these are workable, so we can make this happen if there is goodwill. I will say there\u2019s been some goodwill from the Minister and also goodwill in terms of the committee that worked, I think, well on this over the last week, even though we all have different philosophical positions. We, as Labour, look forward to working constructively with the Minister on amendments on this bill through to the committee stage. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022475d1ad10c3638ab1933dbfc9a171afb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022475d1ad10c3638ab1933dbfc9a171afb\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (16:03)\u003C/span\u003E: This is such a perfect example of the Government not wanting the public to know that they have been trampling over tens of thousands of people who are living, often, in deep poverty, waiting for their ACC claims to come through, and who have been unlawfully put in debt for decades. It\u2019s really telling that both sides, actually, keep referring to \u201Cthese people\u201D without often naming what we\u2019re talking about. These are not just \u201Cthese people\u201D or \u201Cdouble-dippers\u201D, as the Minister for Social Development and Employment often referred to them in her initial remarks in the first reading; these are members of our communities who have endured often incredibly traumatic experiences, survivors of abuse in State care, sexual violence survivors, and survivors of traumatic head injuries who have often had to fight the ACC system that was up against them to get the rehabilitation and the support that they needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill only came through because Community Law Centres Aotearoa, alongside others, challenged this unlawful practice in the High Court. The High Court agreed with people who fought the system. The High Court actually ruled in favour of them and said, and I quote, \u201CThe recipient of the supplementary assistance needed, and was eligible for, that assistance at the time. The ministry\u2019s interpretation could result in the State retrospectively imposing potentially significant debts on persons of limited means\u201D\u2014limited means\u2014\u201Cthrough no fault of their own.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat we\u2019re talking about here is people who experience poverty while waiting for support for the rehabilitation\u2014which, by the way, the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) does not provide\u2014 and who need assistance, while living in poverty, to literally just make ends meet while they\u2019re waiting for their ACC claims. We\u2019re talking about the accommodation supplement and the disability assistance. Any members who have been at the front lines or lived in poverty or have worked with people in poverty know that people do not access this assistance simply because they want to; they access it because they need it to survive. Ask anyone living on a benefit if they just wanted to get their disability assistance or whether they needed it simply to make ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EInstead of honouring the lived realities of the almost 40,000 people impacted by this bill, we have seen rhetorical flourishes by the Minister that do not reflect the harm that this bill is entrenching. Simply saying that this is legalising existing practice that was found to be unlawful isn\u2019t good enough if we\u2019re not going to recognise that 40,000 people, many who were experiencing material hardship, are completely being sidelined by this process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen I said at the beginning of my contribution that this was a bill that the Government did not want the public finding out about, it is because it was introduced during urgency and, as a concession, was given a one-week select committee process\u2014two days for members of the public to make submissions, two days to ask survivors of sexual violence to put their thoughts on paper and to contribute to this bill, two days to allow organisations who work at the front lines with people who have been traumatised by the system and our State-care system to contribute meaningfully to this bill. Despite these hurdles, we had hundreds of written submissions, and less than 0.1\u00A0percent\u2014only two submissions\u2014were in favour of the bill. What that tells me is that this Government is not wanting to engage in good faith with the public and to have a debate on the merits of this bill. They just want to rush it through and hope that no one notices that they\u2019re actually negatively and retrospectively affecting people living in poverty and survivors, in some cases, of sexual violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe select committee process left us, in many ways, none the wiser. Why? At every stage of the way, we were unable to determine who these 37,000-plus people were and the types of claims that they had. If you look at the select committee report, \u201CWe don\u2019t know that; we don\u2019t know how many sensitive claimants that are affected as part of this bill.\u201D The select committee process did not give us the tools and the means to ascertain the demographic breakdown of those who we are talking about. We were left with only the information given to us by submitters and legal experts to be able to ascertain that this did, indeed, include sensitive claims and that this did, indeed, include survivors of abuse in State care. You don\u2019t see the Minister referencing either of these groups at any point\u2014groups that this Government and this Parliament has apologised to for the abuse that they have endured and who, now, have significant debts to Government agencies due to unlawful practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to also note and comment on the amendments being proposed by the Minister that came off as a result of the select committee process. I know that she was commending the work of the select committee process for identifying this, but the Government knew from the get-go, when they decided this bill, that it only allowed for people who had claims in the Social Security Appeal Authority. For the layperson watching this debate, most beneficiaries are never able to clear the hurdles of filing a review of decision and knowing the laws and policies that they\u2019re challenging, potentially waiting for weeks\u2014in the case of the people we\u2019re talking about, often over 100 weeks\u2014to get a hearing. To go through a benefit review committee hearing is often stacked against the person on the benefit, because it\u2019s MSD reviewing its own decisions. Then, to be able to climb the next hurdle of the Social Security Appeal Authority, most people need literal advocates and lawyers to even get to that stage. There were dozens of people who had put a review of a decision that were initially excluded by the bill as written. For the Minister to claim that this is some great concession is a joke, when she knows\u2014and legal experts and survivors have told her\u2014that this bill leaves tens of thousands of people with debts that diminish their ability to make ends meet at a time when they are finally able to access critical rehabilitation to help them deal with the loss of pay that they may have incurred due to sexual violence, due to abuse in State care, due to traumatic head injuries or other types of injuries in the workplace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt really is beyond belief that the Government, instead of recognising that Labour- and National-led Governments had failed ACC claimants who were living in poverty and needed supplementary assistance, and directed that very same energy to fix the welfare system to one that allowed people to live well, not in poverty,and, instead, we have this bill that simply legalises a practice that we know, and have been told, makes people\u2019s lives harder.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen I hear politicians talk about double-dipping and how this is about retaining a targeted welfare State, I hear a disconnect between politicians inside these four walls and our communities living in poverty. What I hear is the complete disregard for the wellbeing of people who have gone through horrendous situations, and what I hear is a Government that would rather save a handful of millions than honour the dignity and the struggles of tens of thousands of people who have fought hard to get their ACC claims to come through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re still not supportive of this bill. The select committee process that we went through was absolutely rushed and did a disservice, in my view, to the many survivors who took their time to write to us. This process should have allowed us to ascertain the types of claims that people were making, this process should have allowed us to hear directly from sexual abuse survivors as to how they felt about this bill, and we were not able to do either of these things.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe deserve a Government that treats legislative scrutiny and the tens of thousands of people who are often living in hardship affected by this bill seriously; not a Government that completely ignores\u2014does not name, but they\u2019re naming the communities affected by this bill\u2014and pretends that this bill is simply about retaining a targeted welfare system, when the Minister well knows that we are living under a Government that is seeing material hardship for children increase, homelessness increase, and rough sleeping increase. Instead, we should be having a Government that fights for everyone to live a life with dignity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to engaging constructively, hopefully, with the Minister in the committee of the whole House. History tells me that this is not a Minister that has previously engaged constructively in these debates. But I really hope that she takes the amendments we will be proposing to minimise the harm that this bill posts in our communities seriously. I urge my Labour colleagues to stop supporting this bill, and to stand on the right side of history and vote it down at this second reading. Do not wait for the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022 data-id=\u00220d67445b93fa1a25ef78a6e366a14859\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220d67445b93fa1a25ef78a6e366a14859\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT) (16:13)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of ACT to support the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to start by conveying my gratitude to the Social Services and Community Committee because, I must say, they have worked really hard with the time constraint that they had. I also want to acknowledge the clerk of the committee, because I know they do a lot of work in the background. I was reading the select committee\u2019s report\u2014I must admit that I\u2019m not a member of the Social Services and Community Committee, but I did read their report\u2014and I see that there were more than 800 submissions. So we can\u2019t say that, because of the select committee, it didn\u2019t receive submissions\u2014for submissions, that number looks quite reasonable to me, and I would say that that is reflective of what people would have otherwise said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge that, yes, there are more than 37,000 people who will be affected by this change, but it\u2019s important that we make this change right now, before more people come into this group. We don\u2019t want more and more people being impacted because the policy is not delivering what it intends to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe integrity of all our policies is so important, and that is why we want to make sure that our policies are delivering on their intent. If the intent can be challenged, it is the job of Parliament to fix that, and that is what we are doing. We also want to be fair to taxpayers. We also want to be fair to recipients of these benefits and supplementary assistance. We want to see that ACC and the Ministry of Social Development work alongside, not in isolation. People should be receiving no more or no less; they should be receiving what they\u2019re entitled to receive, and that is what this bill will do. That is why we support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6012a542ef4f688dc4bdcb6297596cf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6012a542ef4f688dc4bdcb6297596cf\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First) (16:15)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to support the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill. I had the privilege last week to sit in these hearings and listen to the hearings of eight oral submissions; we received over 855\u00A0submissions in total. What this relates to is that those 37,000-odd cases that this High Court judgment has made between 1998 and 2025 is captured. In those hearings, we did hear a number of concerns. I think what I would say in this reading is that there is the opportunity through the committee of the whole House stage to actually look at some of the finer points and to make some changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe New Zealand First ACC spokesperson, who sits beside me at the moment, David\u00A0Wilson, talked about unintended consequences. I think what I did hear through those submissions is that, through the savings provisions, there is an opportunity that this legislation, at the moment, doesn\u2019t affect cases decided or lodged with the appeal authority or the courts, but we could look in the committee of the whole House stage of actually widening that out so those who were already engaged in the review process\u2014that would actually gain those people into that. A number of submissions brought up around the benefits review committee, and had already gone to that stage. I think, through the committee of the whole House, that is an option we can actually look at and maybe widen that savings provision. What I would say is that the piece of legislation here is to confirm longstanding policy, and that longstanding policy in what we\u2019re trying to do is to prevent inequities in the system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgain, through the submissions around the material hardship and people that will now have to pay something back\u2014I think that was brought forward very strongly in the submissions, but the one thing I did take from the Ministry of Social Development was that they did say they do take individual cases on their merits, and there will be people that will face paybacks. I think the majority of the paybacks were something like under $2,000\u2014what is a sum of money for anyone to pay back\u2014but the rate of that payback will definitely depend on the individual person\u2019s circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to the committee of the whole House stage and, as I\u2019ve outlined, those opportunities to look at those subtle changes. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236581683e623601ecdc11deff102496c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea4e747fef5790ec1cad0cf878180fba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea4e747fef5790ec1cad0cf878180fba\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (16:18)\u003C/span\u003E: The Minister has made clear that the purpose of this bill is to maintain the integrity of a targeted welfare system and to ensure that people do not receive duplicate income replacement. Now, if we translate that into everyday language\u2014and for those I serve, this bill prevents double-dipping. The cheek of it to accuse more than 37,500 people of double-dipping when it could be well proven that this Government is employing double standards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBe that as it may, there are several issues with this bill. Firstly, it goes beyond that intent and it risks producing serious inequity and unintended harm. But rather than use my five minutes to talk to how terrible this is for M\u0101ori, I give rise to the voices of those who took the liberty, the time; who made huge efforts to submit applications on this bill in a very short time frame, and that was 24 hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EE te Whare, more than 850 submissions were received by the Social Services and Community Committee. To each and every one of you, \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Et\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koutou katoa\u003C/span\u003E. The thing is, only two of those submissions actually supported this bill. Some were neutral, some agreed with some of the changes, others did not, but the consistent and most striking feature of all the submissions was the level of concern expressed regarding the retrospective aspect of this bill, which validates what the High Court found was unlawful: the mandatory creation of debts in relation to ACC compensation delays; and the recovery of supplementary support, like the disability allowance, from those who genuinely need, needed, and still need assistance while experiencing ACC delays.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESubmitters also said that the bill unfairly punishes clients for an administrative issue. They also expressed disdain that the bill was being rushed under urgency, limiting adequate time for consultation or genuine input from the public. They said reassessing supplementary assistance was unfair. They said the savings provision is too narrow. They also said that the bill will cause greater stress to vulnerable people and put them into financial hardship.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis was the very first entire select committee process that I was fortunate to be a part of. I heard and read many of the 800 submissions, and it was really hard not only to soak in the information, the real lived experiences of each and every one of those people, but to see, before my very own eyes, the stress put on the staff to actually bring to life a bill, a piece of legislation, that has significant impact on everyday ordinary New Zealanders. Putting that through under urgency limits any real robust discussion. As responsible members of Parliament, of this House, that is our duty, and we were cut short of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet it be noted, e te Whare, on the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the MP for T\u0101maki Makaurau actually did a lot of fighting. We are still fighting very hard for our people. What we did is we lodged several amendments\u201413, in fact\u2014and not one of them\u2014and I\u2019m not just talking about Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori. Every amendment that was submitted was recognised but not passed. Not one amendment was agreed to nor consented nor passed at that select committee stage. To enter this House again this week and to hear the Minister responsible actually agree to one amendment is hopeful, but she needs to continue on that trajectory and actually listen to the people who did put in their submissions and to the legal experts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, what I want to get to is this: the voices of the people are more important than the voices in this room. We of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori stand tall and proud for all the voices who go unheard, who are silenced, and that is what this bill is doing. It is not silencing the voices, but it\u2019s not listening to them\u2014850 oppose this bill for serious reasons, and we have to do more. We have to do much more and fight much harder. I agree with the Green Party in imploring every single member in this House right now to stop this bill at the second reading. Do not allow it to advance to the committee of the whole House, because what it does is it actually does further harm, strengthening hardship for every single wh\u0101nau across Aotearoa. We do not commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2befa6e607a091e7ffd6081fe102384\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2befa6e607a091e7ffd6081fe102384\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green) (16:23)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora e te P\u012Bka. I rise today in opposition to this bill, which, at its core, seeks to punish injured Kiwis acting in good faith. This piece of legislation will punish injured ACC claimants that apply for interim supplementary welfare assistance, retrospectively and in the future. For this Government and this Minister to retrospectively turn supplementary assistance for the injured and poor in our community into debt is abhorrent\u2014supplementary assistance for the things like heating in winter, food on your dinner table, and covering your accommodation. It\u2019s just for the bare necessities. It is designed to meet the genuine financial pressures that people face in real time. To grant that assistance, knowing that it will result in debt later down the line, entrenches disparities and future disadvantages for the already disadvantaged in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESocial security is a fundamental and recognised human right that exists to help lift people up when they need it most, not shackle them into debt. Under the current existing law, should a person receive backdated ACC weekly compensation, only the main benefit is reimbursable to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), not the supplementary assistance. Tethering people already living on low incomes to retrospective debt that they sought in good faith and in genuine need is contrary to the entire process of ACC and MSD.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that will impact some of our most vulnerable people\u2014people that, through this process, will be retraumatised. Instead of acting in accordance with existing legislation, this Government, through urgency, introduced a bill to amend legislation to align with the way that MSD have been previously operating. Just because MSD were following a policy, that does not mean that that policy was right or just. What we have here, once again, is a Government that rushes through legislation, and it was only for a late change that it actually managed to get to a select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow much time did the public get to make submissions? Two days\u2014just two days. They did over 800 submissions, and we\u2019ve heard only two\u2014only two\u2014of those submissions were in support. Even though this was a rushed process, the community has spoken, and they have spoken loudly: \u201CWe oppose this bill.\u201D What I\u2019ve heard, time and time again, is that this is about equity and equality\u2014\u201CWe\u2019re going to stop the double-dipping.\u201D This bill is actually not about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat this bill is about is the Government looking after their books and trying to make them look good. They\u2019re trying to write off the debts and stop repaying clients to a tune of around $63\u00A0million. Obviously, there\u2019s another few million dollars that go with the operational cost of doing that. Although, with this process being so rushed, actually, how accurate are those estimates? I can tell you one thing: when you look at those costs\u2014those costs that are actually for very, very vulnerable people\u2014it is small compared to the tax breaks that this Government gave to the tobacco industry, which was at a cost of $200\u00A0to $300\u00A0million. When it comes to the most vulnerable in society, you just don\u2019t\u2014sorry, Madam Speaker, the Government just does not seem to give a damn, but when it comes to their rich mates, that\u2019s when they really care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s be clear: people receiving weekly compensation often have extremely debilitating and significant injuries that affect their ability to work and support themselves and their families. They are often sensitive claimants who are survivors of sexual abuse and abuse in State care. They are not scam artists seeking to bleed the coffers dry while awaiting the decisions from ACC, sometimes for months or years. These people have to rely on the provision of supplementary assistance to survive. We are just retraumatising people that have been through so much hardship. The Green Party opposes this bill, and we urge others to stop this bill. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u0022af6141af75e81635e549cdce744d673d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af6141af75e81635e549cdce744d673d\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (16:28)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak, this afternoon, on the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee, and I want to thank everyone who engaged in the process, where we heard submissions on this bill\u2014855 interested groups and individuals, and eight oral submissions. Everyone worked hard, and I think we worked well as a committee in assessing this bill, hearing from submitters, looking into some reasonably complex\u2014but, when it boils down to it, a relatively simple issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is intended to clarify the longstanding policy and practice that the Ministry of Social Development has. This bill is ensuring that the status quo is maintained, and we note that the bill aligns with the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s current practices and that nothing in the bill differs from how the Ministry of Social Development currently operates and has for a long time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe background to this is that the High Court delivered a decision in October last year, which said that that longstanding policy and practice was inconsistent with the law itself, so this bill intends to ensure that there\u2019s equality between people who are getting benefits and people who are going through an ACC review process and then getting backdated money if they are successful in reviewing that process. The money that they got when they were on a benefit is then taken into account against the money they get from ACC and subtracted from that, and so it\u2019s to ensure that people are equal across time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, there are some things that the committee was concerned about, and I commend the Minister for taking into account those things that the committee raised and for expanding the savings provision\u2014i.e., those people who can take the benefit of the High Court\u2019s decision, effectively\u2014to include those who have made an application to the benefits review committee prior to the introduction of the bill. It\u2019s ensuring that people who began the process of an application can continue with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt its heart, this is a relatively straightforward bill, and it is ensuring that the longstanding policy and practice that has been under multiple Governments is maintained. The Government has a duty to fix the situation that the High Court identified last year and to clarify the law so that it aligns with longstanding, intended policy. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4910af04f3f326ffae1c63cfca00e76\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4910af04f3f326ffae1c63cfca00e76\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (16:31)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise again to take a call on the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill. It was not long ago since I got the opportunity to speak at the first reading of this bill, but it appears that a lot has happened in that short space of time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Social Services and Community Committee for their work on this. As others have alluded to, this was a bill that initially was not envisaged to have a select committee process, and although the select committee process was extremely short\u2014and I acknowledge comments made from others around whether that was sufficient or not\u2014we were very grateful to be able to have the opportunity to hear from those affected, and also from experts working in this field. I do want to thank colleagues who were on that committee for their work over a short space of time and for engaging with the people who decided to submit on this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think most people would be surprised at the number of people who were able to realise that this change was coming through and actually make a submission on this bill over that short period of time. There were, I think, well over 850 submissions. That is a significant number of submissions for any select committee to receive on a bill, and certainly for one where there was a short amount of notice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the reasons why, from the Labour Party\u2019s side, we were so keen to have a select committee process was that we could see\u2014and I don\u2019t think there\u2019s much disagreement about having a fair ACC scheme and having a fair welfare scheme and making sure that the interaction between those is fair and just. Certainly, that is one of the reasons that we were told by officials that this was progressing. We were also told that this was to implement a legislative change consistent with practice, and we spoke about that a little bit in the first reading. But I don\u2019t think it\u2019s quite as straightforward as that, because we have to remember that what the High Court did find was that there was injustice in the way that this policy was being implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we were very interested to marry up the information we\u2019d been given by officials as to the need for this change\u2014and we acknowledge that that was the policy in place\u2014but also to have the opportunity to actually hear from people who were in receipt of Ministry of Social Development (MSD) payments and who were then asked to pay back MSD payments as a result of subsequently receiving ACC payments. I was not on the select committee, but I know my colleagues Willie Jackson and Helen White from our party were, and, obviously, colleagues around the House were, too. They can, obviously, have the opportunity to speak\u2014Willie has spoken, and Helen will be able to reflect on this, too\u2014but the impression that I got was that the submissions were very compelling and raised some concerns around the way that this is being implemented. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I understand it\u2014and it was the thing that wasn\u2019t 100 percent clear to me when this bill first came to the House\u2014the fact is that it is possible for someone to receive MSD payments and use those for rehabilitation, to use those for taxi trips, or to use those for therapy. Subsequently, if they receive coverage from ACC in terms of income, they\u2019re likely to have maybe a lump sum, and there\u2019s no dispute around there being no double payment or double-dipping for that main benefit payment, which may overlap with compensation. However, the thing that has been made clear through the select committee process is the fact that for those people who have received those payments, if their ACC claim had been accepted at the time, they may have been entitled to an ACC payment that would have covered the money that they may have used their MSD payment for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, it won\u2019t be every single claimant, as I understand it, but there will be a certain number who may be in a worse position, and I note that the Minister for Social Development and Employment said in her speech on this reading that this bill shouldn\u2019t differentiate, but, unfortunately, what we did hear from the people at the select committee is that this bill does differentiate. It puts people who received ACC earlier in a better position, in some instances, than those who received ACC later, and in both those cases, we\u2019re talking about people who have had valid claims received. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also had a significant amount of input from people who are really expert in this field, and I know that a group of ACC lawyers and advocates have written to the Minister and they\u2019ve made that letter public. That letter has asked the Minister to consider making amendments to this so that, in those circumstances that I\u2019m describing where there is an inequity or unfairness, there is a way for MSD to have some discretion so as to not order that that repayment be made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are other details that my colleague Willie Jackson has already gone through in terms of the exact amendment that we\u2019re seeking, but that seems a relatively minor amendment. As we understand it, MSD has the possibility to implement a discretionary amendment like that, and the reason that we have suggested this\u2014and I take the points from colleagues from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the Greens around saying that we shouldn\u2019t have this bill at all\u2014is because the people who know this area best have, from what I can ascertain, advocated that this would be an equitable way of allowing this bill to progress. So we think that that is a reasonable, good-faith, and practical suggestion that acknowledges that situation that I have just outlined, where there could be inequity with someone who received ACC coverage earlier or later. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAdditionally, there are people, as I understand it, who are in very vulnerable situations, and I know that the committee was able to hear from some of those people, although perhaps not all of those people were able to share their stories. I have read the select committee\u2019s report and I note that the select committee stated that all of the written submissions are available online, and it encourages those who are interested to read those submissions. Some of those submissions are the stories of people who would have faced hardship, and we can\u2019t say that there is no case that would fit that scenario, because we know that that is what the High Court found, and that was when it was interpreting the law as it currently stands. Whatever the policy intention was, it was not the law that this Parliament passed, and so when we\u2019re looking again to fix that law, I think we need to be mindful of the situations where there could be an inequity. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFrom our perspective, even though the select committee process was extremely short, it was extremely beneficial in terms of our being able to receive information from people who advocate for those who have issues with the payments they\u2019ve received from MSD and ACC, to hear from those who had been clients of ACC who had received ACC coverage and who had previously received MSD payments, and to be, unfortunately, provided with evidence that some of our concerns regarding this bill may come to pass if it\u2019s not amended. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe will be putting forward that amendment at the committee of the whole House stage. As my colleague has said, we\u2019re happy to be constructive around that and to work with the Minister, and I think that the Minister, in this instance, has been very constructive, very much compared with other pieces of legislation that have gone through this House. But the fact of having the select committee where none was planned\u2014even though it was short\u2014was valuable. I also support the change that she\u2019s said will come through. I imagine that will be a committee stage change as well, where people who have already brought complaints will be exempted from this. I think that\u2019s something that I would support and we will continue to see if we can find a way forward. But we have to say that, you know, we would not be able to support the bill if we are not able to be assured that in situations of inequity, in situations where there would be unfairness as a result of making sure that this payment was paid, that there is absolutely no discretion for the Ministry of Social Development to not order that payment. It may sound a small thing, but for those people who, objectively, will face that inequity unfairness, it will possibly be a life-changing thing for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ll continue to work constructively on this bill. I thank, again, the Minister, the select committee, and colleagues around the House for their work on it to date, and I\u2019m very hopeful that the bill that this House ends up passing is a better bill than it would have otherwise been if not for the efforts of colleagues around the House and listening to those very articulate and brave and courageous members of the public and their advocates who were able to contribute to the select committee and, hopefully, add value to the final version of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022 data-id=\u002249471ea40475aefa6bdd5e55288c0010\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002249471ea40475aefa6bdd5e55288c0010\u0022\u003EDANA KIRKPATRICK (National\u2014East Coast) (16:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I just rise to take a short call on the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill. This was my first full bill on the Social Services and Community Committee, and quite a start, I should say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe bill amends the Social Security Act to confirm the longstanding policy intent underpinning the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s practice that it has used for some time. I want to thank the select committee for turning this around in a very short time. The one-week report back date meant for some long hours and some significant juggling of people\u2019s schedules in order to do this. But, notwithstanding that, the submitters and their stories and their time that they spent delivering to us in this select committee is very much valued and I want to thank them for their time. I think that it is a bill that will hopefully clarify the situation in the future. Therefore, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ef028d38e877cb7227d99891f6ca40\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc4aed376fa19f048e1d7c713b0be36f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc4aed376fa19f048e1d7c713b0be36f\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour) (16:42)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I thought I\u2019d begin my contribution just by recognising the work of Community Law, who brought the case that has sparked some of this discussion and legislative change. It\u2019s not the first time Community Law has embarked on some strategic litigation work, and their funding isn\u2019t necessarily designed to cover it, but it\u2019s certainly an important part of how we grow our understanding of inadequacies in the law and times at which we\u2019ll need to address that. The case that I\u2019m referring to is obviously the one where we had the decision from Justice Grice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, since the bill has had its first reading in the House, I think\u2014I didn\u2019t sit on the select committee, but certainly through media reports\u2014we\u2019ve heard from a number of people who have talked about the hardship that they will face should the bill proceed as is. I recall reading a quote from Victoria Bruce where she talked about it being an absolute shock and that it would be an absolute shock to many who were already suffering emotionally, particularly those who\u2019d been through the abuse in care process of getting redress, to now have to deal with the financial burden on top of that as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Camilla Belich has explained, because, in part, of that massive wave of submissions who spoke about that hardship, there will be a proposed amendment from Labour in the committee stage of this, which will look at, really, three key areas. One is the hardship and fairness test where the Ministry of Social Development must not seek repayment if the person received it in good faith and it would cause undue hardship, but also looking to protect key supports, including the disability allowance and protecting abuse survivors in particular, as well. So I do hope that Government members will engage in that process robustly, particularly given the number of people who submitted about the need for that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was another change that I reviewed on the papers that came from the New Zealand Law Society who spoke first about the rule of comity: the rule that requires the House to be respectful of court processes and vice versa. They commended the inclusion of new sections 107 and 108, inserted by clause 8, which essentially protects proceedings that are before the appeal authority at present. Now, what the Law Society suggested is that the House may want to extend that to protect cases that are currently before the benefits review committee as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019ve represented clients at the benefits review committee and it struck me at the time that the time line, in terms of getting through that process, is quite considerable. To no fault of their own, you may have people who have understood that there\u2019s potentially an issue in the space, have raised that issue, but are essentially waiting either to be heard or for a final decision of the benefits review committee before they then proceed to an appeal or go on to the courts after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAlong with the areas that colleagues will speak to in the House\u2014and amendments will certainly be proposed\u2014this is certainly an area that I would like discussed as part of the committee of the whole House stage, and whether, as a matter of the principle of comity, we ought to be extending that somewhat further. This isn\u2019t a new or a novel proposal; it\u2019s something that\u2019s been a very longstanding principle under the rule of law. So, I do believe that, in this case, it potentially warrants an extension into the review process as well. Unfortunately, we don\u2019t quite know how long people are stuck in that review process. It could be a considerable number of weeks. Again, in fairness to them, I would hope that it\u2019s something that we could discuss at committee stage, but for the time being, we do understand that there is a need to discuss these issues in depth at that stage, so we will be commending the bill through to committee stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022 data-id=\u002291a69eae375f6bf4cea0ce4ee8194c40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291a69eae375f6bf4cea0ce4ee8194c40\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie) (16:47)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EN\u014Dku te m\u0101ringanui, n\u014Dku te whiwhi hoki kia whai w\u0101hi ki te k\u014Drero e p\u0101 ana ki t\u0113nei pire. Mihi ana ki ng\u0101 mema k\u0113, ng\u0101 mema atu kua wehewehe i ng\u0101 taipitopito o te pire nei. He k\u014Drero poto t\u0113nei n\u0101 reira ka tuku au i te pire nei ki te Whare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EIt is my good fortune and my pleasure to contribute to this bill. I thank the members who deliberated the details of this bill. This is but a short address; therefore, I commend this bill to the House\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u002244044ba8258f343f60207d9a7e8f0f36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002244044ba8258f343f60207d9a7e8f0f36\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert) (16:47)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. This was a really interesting piece of legislation that came very urgently to our Social Services and Community Committee. I started with a different view from the one I ended up with, and that was thanks to the amazing submitters. I think there were 850 submissions that came in\u2014we couldn\u2019t hear all those submissions\u2014but it was also a real warning about the nature of urgent inquiry because it was great that we had our select committee process at all, which was only a few days, but it was limited in what it could do. As we explored the issues that were coming up with this bill, it was quite difficult for people like the advisers to do their job and look for the best possible solution because we simply didn\u2019t have time and they simply didn\u2019t have time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been in this House a long time and I\u2019ve been concerned about urgency, but I\u2019ve never really seen that process when it comes to that squeaky end where the select committee members are genuinely trying to explore solutions and it\u2019s being impeded by the speed of which things are happening. I would also just remind the House that in most situations, that kind of law that\u2019s being pushed through very, very quickly doesn\u2019t get any examination at all. We end up with the wrong result quite often. We\u2019ll end up with unintended consequences if that happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, I want to turn to the substantive nature of this bill. This was a bill that crossed over into an area I had worked in so I had some knowledge of the kinds of people who might be impacted, because I would have the occasional ACC matter before me as a lawyer. So I was told by the advisers that what we were doing here at the beginning was merely confirming a longstanding practice, but what they didn\u2019t talk about was whether that longstanding practice was unjust or unreasonable. My understanding, as we went through this, I looked at it through the eyes of some of the kinds of people that I have had in my office and have walked through these claims with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI had one case which were wire-cutters. They had an injury to their arms because they were cutting steel wire, and so they would get this common injury but it wouldn\u2019t be accepted as an injury because it was a gradual issue and there would be a question mark over whether that was an injury caused by the cutting of the wire or if it was just caused by the fact that they were older workers doing that\u2014and so there was a question mark over it. It would take a long time; it would have to go through a process to actually eventuate in them getting the benefit of the accident compensation system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat was described by some of the very learned submitters who do this work much more regularly was that we had to look at one person who would get ACC right at the beginning, because their claim was, perhaps, easier to establish. So he had an accident, it was easy to see; versus my wire cutter, who might, through no fault of their own, be subject to a long process of examination when that claim might be going through a process, and eventually it was upheld as a claim. That claim might take five years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was another category that took a long time, and that was our sexual assault victims. Because they\u2019re complex claims, they took a long time to go through the system. As a result, those people were in a situation where they were often actually needing a benefit through the Ministry of Social Development (MSD). So they would be on the benefit for some time in that period and they wouldn\u2019t be able to be entitled to a lot of the things that they should have got if they\u2019d been on ACC.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was a submission from Hazel Armstrong, who does this work, and has done it as long as I have been a lawyer\u2014she\u2019s very good at it\u2014but she\u2019s also on the Ports of Auckland board. She talks about how now when you get somebody at the Ports of Auckland and they have an injury, there\u2019s a gold-plated rehabilitation of them, and because their claim\u2019s accepted, they actually end up recovering much faster and they end up back at work. So they get a lot of on-top additions. What I had understood at the beginning was that there was an issue with double-dipping because somebody who had got a main benefit for the period that they hadn\u2019t been able to get the amount had to pay that back to ACC and that somehow there was a double-dipping if they were given their lump sum at the end of that ACC, because they had also received MSD entitlements on top of their main benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo what happens, for those listening at home, is the main benefit that is received in that five-year period is offset against the lump sum of 80 percent that, otherwise, ACC would pay out, and ACC transfers that money to MSD, but they weren\u2019t transferring anything else. All the additional benefits that Hazel Armstrong was talking about, all the top-up that came from ACC\u2014the taxis, the cleaning service, all these things that you can have when you\u2019re on ACC because it helps your recovery, those things\u2014they were not getting those things. So ACC, or an accredited employer, was enriched during that period by all that money and they were not ever giving that to MSD to offset the costs that they had to meet at MSD for that client; there wasn\u2019t an exchange going on. But when I asked, \u201CCan I find out from ACC what\u2019s going on here?\u201D, it wasn\u2019t possible to do that in the period of time we had.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe good news is that the committee has resolved to see ACC tomorrow morning, and it will do so and it will be able to ask some of those questions. That\u2019s a really important inquiry we need to make, because we need to come up with a just solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a risk\u2014this is one risk I want to point out to everyone in this House\u2014that in cases of delay that if ACC or an accredited employer is actually better off because they haven\u2019t had to pay out for that five-year period in a delay, it actually incentivises the delay. We have a lot of good-faith people in this country, but there is a risk that we are creating moral hazard where people are actually going to not want to pay out because they don\u2019t have to, because what MSD actually allows people to get is so minimal in comparison to what ACC get.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen I just want to move to the last problem. So you have a person who has not received their ACC entitlements\u2014none of those entitlements on top have been received; they\u2019ve only received the amount of a main benefit and something much more inferior, not the same from MSD\u2014going right through that process to that end point, and, suddenly, they get their 80 percent of what they should have received. If they\u2019re an airline pilot, that\u2019s going to be a lot of money; if they\u2019re a minimum wage worker, that\u2019s not going to be a lot of money. They bring it back, they\u2019ve got that, MSD takes out the main benefit, and then what\u2019s been happening is that MSD have been going after them for the money that they have to pay back, for anything else they\u2019re paid, for any other supplement. As a result of that, they can actually be far, far worse off; they can end up having all their money taken away.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo what was suggested here was that there was a solution to this: we should look at some form of waiver. Now, that is something that ACC does; it has a discretion to make sure that what it\u2019s doing isn\u2019t cruel, isn\u2019t unfair on our people who need that level of scrutiny. That is what we were looking at as a solution. A lot of these experts had written to the Minister, and said, \u201CThis is what we can do to fix this situation so it\u2019s just not as unfair.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is what is the basis of the amendment that Labour will put up on this bill, that what we\u2019ve listened to is those experts say there\u2019s a system over here that works, where we give more discretion, where we allow people to look at those factors and make sure that the person getting the money is not out of pocket\u2014because, remember, this person is actually now paying for all their own rehabilitation out of the money received. It\u2019s perverse. It doesn\u2019t work. So they\u2019re going to have to look at that, and that\u2019s the amendment we\u2019re putting up. It\u2019s a strong amendment. It\u2019s not everything. It doesn\u2019t help the airline pilots, but it does help our most vulnerable workers, it helps our sexual assault complainants, it helps our gradual process injury people, it helps working people in this country. So I ask, very genuinely, for that to be considered by the current Government as a good remedy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to a good engagement on this so we can get it right and fair for New Zealanders who work and get hurt at work. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u0022920f8352516d1cb354f98c0c3f9946fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022920f8352516d1cb354f98c0c3f9946fc\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (16:58)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise in support of the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill, in the second reading. I think this bill is very, very clear with what it does. It clarifies the law on the impact of ACC payments on welfare entitlements and ensures the process is fair for everyone. This actually does follow on from a member\u2019s\u2014well, this lump-sum payment from ACC, we need to make sure that it\u2019s fair in the way it\u2019s dealt with, and I actually had a member\u2019s bill that was then taken up by the Government over taxation of lump-sum payments for ACC. We need to make sure that it\u2019s fair and equitable to everybody. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022afe9b8ee9ebd570537c1975022a586ca\u0022\u003EOnline Casino Gambling Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022620ecaeeec42efd6fbdb222a5f6081c0\u0022\u003ELegislative Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222204e041e14c40fcbec76cc14f0da486\u0022 data-id=\u00224f31d79c4a9068347b6b48bf6ad036d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222204e041e14c40fcbec76cc14f0da486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224f31d79c4a9068347b6b48bf6ad036d2\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs) (17:00)\u003C/span\u003E: I present a legislative statement on the Online Casino Gambling Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022801be1d74edec0d2236eacc841fa260a\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c189efad530d92837251f8485e07f60b\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222204e041e14c40fcbec76cc14f0da486\u0022 data-id=\u00227c08b041d8ef08019ed0dda21237b69a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222204e041e14c40fcbec76cc14f0da486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227c08b041d8ef08019ed0dda21237b69a\u0022\u003EHon BROOKE VAN VELDEN (Minister of Internal Affairs) (17:00)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Online Casino Gambling Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen the Online Casino Gambling Bill was first introduced to the House, its intent was clear: to regulate online gambling in a way that prioritises harm prevention and minimisation. We want New Zealanders who wish to participate in online casino gambling to be able to do so in a safer, regulated market. That intent has guided this bill from the outset.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the Governance and Administration Committee for its consideration of the bill and its recommendations, which strengthen that intent. Firstly, I want to thank the committee for the job they\u2019ve done. Their work ensures that the legislation reflects the concerns and priorities of New Zealanders. I also want to thank everyone who took the time to make a submission on the bill. The committee received over 5,000 submissions from individuals and organisations and heard oral evidence on the bill. Many submitters raised concerns about community returns from gambling revenue. It was clear from the submissions that New Zealanders want to see a return to communities from gambling activity. Kiwis want to see profits going back into local sports clubs, community groups, and grassroots organisations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECabinet has already agreed to provide for community returns, and the committee supported Cabinet\u2019s agreed recommended amendments to increase the offshore gambling duty to fund community return. Cabinet has also agreed that the Lottery Grants Board will be responsible for distributing the funds from online casino gambling. I\u2019m pleased that the committee\u2019s recommendations align strongly with Government decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOther key themes raised in submissions included that regulating online casinos could normalise gambling and lead to greater harm, as well as concerns about the potential harm from gambling activity and advertising. Currently, New Zealanders gamble on thousands of unregulated, offshore websites, exposing them to harm from unaccountable entities based overseas. This bill is not about normalising gambling; it\u2019s about putting safeguards in place for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI understand that some submitters also expressed concern that specific harm minimisation tools were not written into the legislation itself. This is because those tools will be included in regulations, which can be updated more easily when technology and risks evolve. To address these concerns, the committee has recommended changes that make harm minimisation obligations clear in the legislation. The committee has suggested a range of recommendations that will improve the functioning of the bill overall. These include minor changes to provisions, such as amending definitions, processes for review, and enforcement proceedings. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill will allow up to 15 vetted and licensed operators to offer online casino gambling in New Zealand. These operators will be required to meet strict standards for harm minimisation, consumer protection, and advertising. Companies that do not receive a licence will be prohibited from operating or advertising in New Zealand, and they will face penalties for doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReducing the impact of unlicensed operators and enforcing compliance is key to keeping consumers safe and upholding the integrity of the system. To support this, the bill provides a range of enforcement tools to ensure the regime is effective. The Department of Internal Affairs will be able to issue takedown notices, formal warnings, enforceable undertakings, and apply pecuniary penalties, including fines of up to $5 million and licence cancellations where operators fail to comply. The department is already the regulator for gambling in New Zealand, and I\u2019m confident it is well-positioned to enforce this new system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is not just about regulation; it is about protecting people. It targets harm and it safeguards consumers. Licensed operators will have to follow strict requirements to ensure they are minimising harm and protecting consumers. Regulations for the bill are currently being developed to ensure that compliance requirements for licensed operators are clearly stated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn November 2025, Cabinet agreed to the policy for regulations on harm minimisation, consumer protections, advertising, and fees. The regulations ensure a balance, by preventing and minimising harm, while also enabling an attractive, regulated market. The harm prevention and minimisation regulations will be created to limit high-risk behaviours that may occur, including requiring online casinos to prohibit the use of credit cards to pay for online gambling. They will allow players to set limits and breaks in play, and will restrict bonuses and inducements.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELicensed operators will be permitted to advertise, within certain parameters, to channel consumers to regulated platforms. The advertising regulations will require that operators must not target advertisements at those under the age of 25, unless the operator can demonstrate that the advertisement can be precisely targeted at consumers over the age of 18. Operators have to make sure that anyone who has chosen to self-exclude, or those identified by an operator as a problem gambler, are excluded from receiving direct and loyalty programme advertising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ERegulation of the online casino gambling market will be a significant change to the regulatory settings around gambling. The Government considers that it is important to understand the impact of these changes, and Cabinet has noted that there will be a review of the online casino gambling regulatory system within three years of operation to ensure it is minimising harm, providing consumer protections, as well as supporting tax collection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Online Casino Gambling Bill is about protecting New Zealanders who choose to gamble online. We need to establish a clear and robust licensing framework, which will ensure that Kiwis can gamble online in a way that is safe, transparent, and accountable. The Online Casino Gambling Bill creates a system that reduces harm and ensures a fair environment. That was the intent from day one, and that\u2019s what this legislation delivers. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0a2aa0683e4a5fd0df538b16fafb08b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022 data-id=\u00223f3faa0eda7645ef623ec02e09fe57b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223f3faa0eda7645ef623ec02e09fe57b1\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere) (17:07)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Talofa lava. I rise to take a call as the spokesperson leading this kaupapa in the second reading of this bill. Labour agrees with the intent of the bill. I want to acknowledge the Minister\u2019s legislative statement to regulate online casino gambling for New Zealanders, which means this is coming into New Zealand homes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut Labour does not agree with the Government\u2019s roadmap and processes, and we are very concerned at the lack of protections for New Zealand consumers across a number of areas. We would argue that the bill does not go far enough to protect New Zealanders and minimise online casino harm, which is coming to every household in terms of availability. This is what we heard through the select committee submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Minister states that online casino gambling is already well-established in New Zealand. We would argue this is an entirely new system through this bill. The policy intent is to establish a new licensing regime for online casino gambling, and the bill prohibits the conduct and advertisement of unlicensed online casino gambling. However, what that means is that through this system, large multinational companies already in the industry that own and control their own production of goods and services in another country will not necessarily be domiciled in New Zealand. That creates a number of issues, and we heard those issues through the public submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it creates an online licensing system for operators within New Zealand that have previously been prohibited under the Gambling Act 2003 but were widely available. Under the current law, remote, interactive gambling, hosted by operators, is illegal. However, the Gambling Act does not prohibit New Zealanders from accessing offshore gambling websites.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe new bill seeks to amend this gap in legislation by establishing this licensing regime for domestic online casino operators, and we\u2019ve heard that up to 15 licences will be issued within the three-year period. We\u2019ve also heard that the new system will be a three-stage competitive licensing process to determine who may apply for a licence and the amount payable for a licence. That will take place in the regulatory period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe heard at the select committee, the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the 5,000 submitters. We also heard that 3,966 were against the first draft, which proposed no community return at that time. I also want to acknowledge the officials that assisted the select committee through the different process stages and up to this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYears ago, the Gambling Act 2003 was created, and it was formed to integrate previous legislation\u2014the Casino Control Act 1990 and the Gaming and Lotteries Act 1977\u2014into a single framework with primary goals: number one, control growth, regulate the expansion of gambling in communities; number two, harm minimisation, prevent and reduce social harm caused by problem gambling; number three, community benefit, to ensure that proceeds from gambling, especially pokies, will benefit the community through grants and funding; and number four\u2014which is really critical\u2014maintain the fairness of games to prevent crime or dishonesty.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe would argue that this Government continues to look for ways through drafted legislation to continue to collect taxes and levies through the economic lens. However, it needs to go further to protect New Zealanders under this new system. We would also argue that the Government has looked beyond its moral compass to protect New Zealanders and the social licence it requires with regards to this bill. We are concerned that it will cause more stress and harm to New Zealand families when the cost of living is affecting Kiwis every day, and it is these individuals who will constantly be exposed to online casino gambling through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s worse\u2014and I just want to highlight this\u2014is that you will not have to leave the comforts of your home to visit, i.e., a land-based casino. You will be able to obtain your device, you will be able to log in, and, in particular, through the different provisions that are provided, you will be able to access from the comforts of your own home. You don\u2019t even have to leave your home to be able to utilise and get in to do online casino gambling, and that\u2019s a worry. You will have access 24/7, seven days per week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe saturation of advertising is something that we all need to be concerned about, particularly when it\u2019s targeting young New Zealanders. I\u2019ve heard the Minister of Internal Affairs explain the system through regulation that is intended to be provided by the Department of Internal Affairs, but we would continue to argue that there need to be stronger consumer protections to harm, specifically to young New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Governance and Administration Committee examined the Online Casino Gambling Bill, recommending that this bill be passed through the House. Through the public consultation process, we heard a number of submissions who were extremely concerned that the bill does not go far enough. We are concerned that through the original draft, through public pressure to Minister van Velden, she was then forced to go back to Cabinet to advise that there needs to be community return, because I have outlined that, in the original Gambling Act, that was a key provision. We heard over 3,000 submissions advise that there needed to be community return. You cannot just have new legislation under online gambling within New Zealand introduced to New Zealand that does not benefit many of the communities, as was previously in the Act. Suffice to say that it has been welcomed that the Minister had come back to the select committee, that there would be a community provision return, and that has been reflected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour\u2019s differing view has stated that we continue that although the community return is 4 percent, we would argue that the return needs to be double; that there needs to be a higher figure that is considered by officials. The reason why we say that is because, through public submissions, there is no alternative mechanism that has been introduced by the Government in terms of public community groups. Many community groups have to rely on that community funding for their activities. We heard a number of submissions stating what their activities were, and without a community return through this legislation, it will be very difficult for those community groups to carry on. That was consistently heard through the public submissions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge, in particular, one of the submitters, Martin Snedden, who stipulated that it is very important that a review is taken in a few years to review the system in terms of how well it\u2019s gone, what will be the problems in future, and, specifically, consumer protection and the reduction and the tools of harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are still very concerned that this bill, although the Minister has explained that through the regulations New Zealanders will be protected\u2014again, we continue to argue that it does not go far enough and the review will be important. So we will be proposing some amendments through the committee stage, which is important. We will continue to raise the issues that New Zealanders have raised through the select committee process and still continue to request meetings with select committee members to hear their thoughts and to reinforce those thoughts. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022dbc10a71809ba77afd74000074baa61d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dbc10a71809ba77afd74000074baa61d\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green) (17:17)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKia ora e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on behalf of the Green Party. The Green Party supports good, sensible regulation in this space\u2014one that\u2019s focused on harm reduction and risk minimisation\u2014and that is one of the reasons why the Green Party supported it to the Governance and Administration Committee, in the hope that, actually, through that process they\u2019d be able to get better outcomes to this bill. Unfortunately, the minor changes that were managed to be obtained did not actually change the major concerns that we have, and, therefore, we cannot support this bill at this time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMy time on this bill has been a bit briefer, as I came in late and, therefore, was not part of large parts of this process, so I\u2019ve actually taken my time to go over a lot of the information that\u2019s informed our decision. So it\u2019s a good opportunity for me now, with a lot of time in front of me, to actually discuss what I found and what I read. I guess one of the things about the purpose of this bill is to prevent and minimise harm from online casino gambling. When I read the feedback on the regime from other agencies, there\u2019s a few things that leapt out at me. One was from the Ministry of Health. Their response was\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201CHowever, it seems from paper that very little mention of harm prevention or minimisation is proposed for the bill beyond the purpose, while almost all this detail is delegated to regulations. While we understand the benefit of regulations in a fast-evolving environment, we think that some parameters around harm prevention and minimisation need to be in the bill to anchor to the purpose.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Whatu Ora: \u201CWe welcome the intention to regulate online gambling, but are concerned that the proposed regulations will increase gambling and lead to an increase in gambling harm. First, we\u2019re concerned that the Cabinet paper does not reflect the potential for harm that online gambling presents. The RIS provides evidence and discussion on this, but it is not well reflected in the paper. We encourage you to make this potential for harm more visible, so that legislative proposals can be considered in this context. Specifically, we note that online gambling is particularly harmful as it\u2019s continuous, easily accessible, and easy to hide. The regulatory impact statement (RIS) notes that the number of presentations to gambling harm services with onshore online gambling listed as a main mode of harm has increased by 71 percent since 2019, a 1,500 percent rise in the number of adults gambling with offshore providers between 2010 and 2020, and growth from around 7,000 adults to 105,000 adults.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that online gambling poses a higher risk of addiction by being available 24/7. It allows problem gamblers to hide their gambling by moving it on to a personal device and into their homes. It can lack effective safeguards for age verification of gamblers. A lot of times when we\u2019re on our streets now, we see people on e-scooters, the hireable e-scooters. I know in \u014Ctautahi Christchurch, where we have e-scooters, they\u2019re limited to 18 years and over to ride them, but the amount of people that are definitely well under 18 years riding them\u2014and that\u2019s meant to have some age verification. So I just think we can see the pitfalls and that, really, some of these age verifications just don\u2019t have the safeguards to be effective. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt poses problems with regulations to the online environment, with the remote nature of the gambling environment. Problem gambling rates among those who gamble on the internet are 10 times higher than that of the general population. I just want to read some notes from the regulatory impact statement around the costs: \u201CGambling harm treatment providers may experience an increase in direct cost due to the increased resourcing requirements. We assume this cost will be offset by collection of the problem gambling levy by licensed operators.\u201D So this is an implicit acknowledgment that there will be increased resources required, which means increased amounts of problem gambling. Also, the cost of problem gambling cannot just be offset by a levy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt then goes on to say, \u201CThe wider public will experience some indirect costs, namely the cost of gambling harm, which we will assume will be partially offset by a problem gambling levy and would be lower than the counterfactual. There may also be a social cost associated with frustration or irritation with gambling advertisements if advertising increases.\u201D This is another weird statement. The wider public bearing the cost of gambling harm is bad, but also assuming that gambling harm is offset by a levy on operators is nonsensical. If that was the case, there would be no gambling harm in Aotearoa because we already have a problem-gambling levy. You cannot offset the societal costs, the impact on wh\u0101nau financial standing, wellbeing, and mental health through a levy from offshore operators. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFrom what I\u2019ve read from this process, we know there actually has been not the best amount of engagement, especially with iwi. We know when we look at the demographics of who is affected by problem gambling that there\u2019s a lot of communities that are actually affected. In this document that I read, M\u0101ori were three times more likely to be at moderate risk of problem gambling than non-M\u0101ori and non-Pacific people. Pasifika people were more than two times likely to be at moderate risk or problem gamblers than non-M\u0101ori and non-Pacific peoples. About 45.7 percent of young people had gambled in the past year. Men were twice as likely; disabled people\u2014people with long life disabilities\u2014are more likely to be at disproportionately higher risk of developing harmful gambling behaviours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen, when you start to read through all the submissions and you\u2019re actually listening to the people that actually are problem gamblers, you could see that the Government wasn\u2019t actually taking into account the issues that they were confronted with. I\u2019ll read through a couple of these that I\u2019ve found from the iwi leaders. Pou Tangata chair Rahui Papa: \u201CLet\u2019s be clear that this reform will expose more young people to risk. It is gambling harm by stealth.\u201D They said, \u201CIt\u2019s astounding, disappointing, and concerning there has been no initial consultation with communities most likely to be affected by the plans to auction off 15 online casino licences.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA submission from Mana Mokopuna, the Children\u2019s Commissioner: \u201CGiven the statutory mandate of Mana Mokopuna, this submission is focussed on the potential impact of the Bill on the rights, interests, participation, and well-being of mokopuna in Aotearoa New Zealand. In particular, Mana Mokopuna is concerned that the Bill: fails to recognise the heightened risks and harms associated with online casino gambling by seeking only to regulate rather than comprehensively ban online casino gambling in Aotearoa New Zealand; prioritises revenue making from online casino gambling over protecting mokopuna and their wh\u0101nau and communities from the heightened risks and harms of online casino gambling; reverses the ban on online casino gambling advertising despite the evidence that gambling advertising contributes to the normalisation and social acceptance of gambling, particularly among mokopuna\u201D. These go on and on and on talking about the harm that gambling can cause and the fact that this bill does not actually prevent that harm. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI was reading just recently a media article on a university student who had become addicted to online gambling. In that article, the Deputy Prime Minister says, \u201CWe\u2019re talking here about university students who are receiving a huge amount of taxpayer money, on the basis that they are smart and have a future that we should invest in as taxpayers.\u201D It clearly shows that the Deputy Prime Minister does not understand how debilitating an addiction is and that addiction is a mental health issue. I implore the Deputy Prime Minister to show some empathy and try and understand how impactful addiction can be. I think one of the things that we have noticed from this bill is this is not actually about harm prevention; this is about revenue gathering. This is a money-grab that will cause misery. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce941c3a8f69f261697e67f32f510750\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce941c3a8f69f261697e67f32f510750\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki) (17:27)\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it kind of started OK, and I believe Mr Davidson is well-intentioned but just maybe stuck in ideology. I would encourage him to read something like new clause 75(2A), the new clause we added in the select committee that adds an industry-funded national self-exclusion register. That is a meaningful step that actually makes a difference. I would also encourage him to go back and read the submissions, which were overwhelmingly supportive of regulating an area that was unregulated, that was already causing harm, and giving nothing back to this country\u2014to the people of this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow do we regulate that? Go and read what Wellington Riding for the Disabled said. Go and read what sports clubs said. Go and read\u2014particularly the one from Dominic Barrington from Wellington Free Ambulance: really helpful and constructive. The biggest thing I heard about was about returns to the community that started at zero percent; now at 4 percent. It\u2019s a bit of the Goldilocks thing. Zero was the porridge that was too cold. Someone had 7 percent to 8 percent, but that porridge was a bit too hot. Where did we land? At 4 percent. Add to that the gaming levy and the levy for problem gambling, and add to that the GST, and it\u2019s actually 29 percent that\u2019s coming to New Zealand. We\u2019re currently at a zero; it is 29 percent. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI held a public meeting with all my local sports clubs and groups and organisations. We had a great turn out at the Waikanae Bowling Club for people that wanted to see this bill go through, that wanted to support but wanted to see money for community. That\u2019s why I have worked hard to improve this at select committee. That\u2019s why I commend this bill to the House now\u2014for those people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u0022d3b3ad4cc6d20546503363d0426723ca\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d3b3ad4cc6d20546503363d0426723ca\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (17:29)\u003C/span\u003E: Hello, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First and also as another member of the Governance and Administration Committee which considered this bill. Look, the reality is that human beings have always gambled, right? You go right back in history, even the Palaeolithic times, and human beings have gambled. We can read about dice games in Mesopotamia 3,000 years before Christ. Of course, the Roman soldiers gambled for Christ\u2019s clothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut gambling has always been something which has caused problems. There\u2019s always been an element of the addiction there and that\u2019s why in New Zealand, we\u2019ve had longstanding controls and protections, and support for problem gambling foundations and so on in our New Zealand law. The problem here that we\u2019re dealing with is something that\u2019s actually outside of New Zealand. As Mike Davidson just said, you can get it at a click of a button in your home, and it could be anywhere around the world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat we have at the moment is a completely unregulated environment, and what this bill is about is at least placing some regulations. You might say you want to go further, or you might say you want to go less, but I think the message that we got loud and clear is that we need to have a regulated environment, because all of those examples which you\u2019ve heard from the Green Party are things that are happening right now with no regulations whatsoever. We need some form of regulation in what is currently a wild west system. That is what this bill, in the first instance, is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second thing, as we\u2019ve also heard, is that New Zealand has had this longstanding social compact, if you like, saying, \u201CLook, gambling is harmful in some cases,\u201D\u2014quite often it\u2019s harmful\u2014\u201Cbut, on the other side, we expect that the community will benefit in some way.\u201D That\u2019s the various grant schemes that there are around for community and sporting activities. As introduced, this bill had nothing about that there at all, and that was really a problem, I think, right across the select committee. We had a problem with that, and our submitters certainly did because many of them saw it as a breach of that social contract. We had, as you\u2019ve heard, 4,837 submissions. We heard 148 oral submissions, and the sporting and community organisations were very organised, very constructive, and very articulate about putting their case. Of those 4,837 submissions, 3,966 had their primary focus on that issue of community benefit\u20143,966. They weren\u2019t, by and large, individuals; they were organisations, up and down the country\u2014big organisations\u2014who make a massive positive difference to our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETheir real concern was, if we go online\u2014it\u2019s the same argument as you have with bricks and mortar retail against online retail, but I think it\u2019s even more profound here because there\u2019s nothing that you need to go and touch and feel and try on if you\u2019re going to look at clothing\u2014the erosion of class 4 gaming proceeds, which, at the moment, are worth something like $345 million to the community and sporting sector. I know from having been in the situation of giving out grants and carefully thinking about how you can maximise the benefit from those and I also know as a recipient of grants, and sporting organisations and conservation organisations and so on how important that money is. It\u2019s absolutely vital to those organisations, to their health, and to their ability to deliver for our community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe message that we heard was a message that we heard loud and clear, so I think it was really great that the Cabinet also heard that and have made the changes they have to put that 4 percent in there. There\u2019s a community benefit out of that, which we heard would raise something like $10 or $20 million. That seems quite conservative, but I think if the Cabinet hadn\u2019t done that, I suspect that the committee would have done exactly that and said, \u201CYou need to put something in there for community benefit.\u201D, because that is a message that has been loud and clear.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESecondly, I wanted to discuss some changes made through select committee\u2014specifically New Zealand First changes\u2014which I was pleased to be able to encourage the committee to put in there. The first one of them is that the purpose of the bill, as it started, did not include community benefit. Now, because the Cabinet has said there should be some community benefit and they provided for that, the purpose has changed. We\u2019ve added clause 3(e) in, which is to \u201Censure that money from online casino gambling benefits the community.\u201D That\u2019s a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second one was about the nature of the licensees. We had representations from the likes of the New Zealand Community Trust and some of the other community charitable foundations, who said that, actually, they wanted to join in partnership with some of the overseas entities so that we didn\u2019t just have overseas entities being the ones who got the licences but that they could partner together. The big benefit of that would be that those organisations know the New Zealand community;, they\u2019re also going to be, if they get involved in the partnership, much more likely to give a much larger proportion of the proceeds\u2014not just the 4 percent but potentially all that surplus\u2014back to New Zealand organisations. That is a really, really positive thing. So these are the two changes that I encouraged the committee to put up. They\u2019re very much New Zealand First - type amendments because they put New Zealand first and that\u2019s what we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EClause 14 now requires licence applicants to disclose their intended contributions to New Zealand, and clause 19 now requires the Secretary of Internal Affairs to consider the scope of the licence applicant\u2019s presence in New Zealand\u2014do they have staff in New Zealand or don\u2019t they?\u2014and also their planned contributions to the community. Both of those are significant changes, which will benefit applicant organisations in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo finish off, because we\u2019ve heard a fair bit about harm here, in the advertising space, I think there is a potential issue. That potential issue is that you have, potentially, up to 15 organisations who will be advertising their product in New Zealand. Of course, this House has, not that long ago, also decided that we will have more extensive advertising allowed on days which are very special to people\u2014Sundays, Easter, Good Friday, Anzac Day, and Christmas\u2014and it could be quite confronting to have a large number of gambling messages on those days. I hope that\u2019s something which is thought about over time as we monitor the effects of this legislation. But, on the plus side, that advertising also will allow messages which are about the way of safer gambling, rather than the wild west arrangements we\u2019ve got at the moment where, if you\u2019re engaging in online gambling, there are, essentially, no safeguards whatsoever.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also added some practical means of reducing gambling harm. I\u2019ll pick two; one of those has already been mentioned. That\u2019s the self-exclusion register. Instead of having to say \u201CI want to be self-excluded from that one and then that one and then that one.\u201D individually, you can\u2014say if there are 15 of them\u2014do all 15 all at once, and that is a way of reducing harm. We also put in clause 76(d), which is to allow that regulations\u2014and we\u2019ve already heard from the Minister about that\u2014may prohibit accepting payments via credit cards. It\u2019s bad enough to be gambling with money that you can\u2019t really afford; it\u2019s certainly even worse to be gambling with money you don\u2019t even have and that you\u2019re borrowing from someone else, so we got rid of that. We did have some discussion about whether 15 was the right number\u2014more or less etc.\u2014but we didn\u2019t really have compelling evidence in any particular direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne other thing which we did say is that it\u2019s important to review this legislation to see how it goes, to see whether the lotteries are doing the job well in terms of distributing the money, to see what the impact is on class 4, to see what the impact is in terms of problem gambling, and to see what impact it has in terms of the community organisations which benefit from gambling. To the Green Party, I don\u2019t think the changes that we\u2019ve made as a select committee are minor. I think they\u2019re quite significant. I think they do make what was probably a somewhat deficient bill considerably better, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1233a079337c54ca52aa3f84a4ce211\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1233a079337c54ca52aa3f84a4ce211\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (17:36)\u003C/span\u003E: There is no dispute; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori agrees regulation is important, and we welcome regulation, but regulation is the only positive thing about this bill. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori welcomes regulation because gambling online and offline is harmful, and for many wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, it\u2019s been harming us for far too long.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe problem\u2014and the Minister responsible knows this\u2014is that the proposed rules do not go far enough to protect the people who already carry the hardest burden, and that is wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori, that is Pasifika, that is rangatahi, kaum\u0101tua, whaikaha, whaiora, low income communities, and families already struggling to put kai on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ET\u0101maki Makaurau is arguably ground zero for gambling. Ha! Te Pourewa Teitei - Sky Tower. South Auckland, West Auckland, Central Auckland have some of the highest concentrations of pokie machines and gambling-related harm in this entire country. Thousands of wh\u0101nau access gambling-harm services every year, and many more never come forward. M\u0101ori are up to three times more likely to experience problem gambling than non-M\u0101ori. Pasifika peoples are almost four times more likely. Recently, the Salvation Army released its state of the nation report, which highlights that gambling losses increased to $2.79 billion in the last year alone, yet this Government wants to place a 24/7 casino right in every pocket, every phone, every laptop, and every bedroom. What\u2019s worse is that it will be available to 18-year-olds. That makes no sense to me or anybody really, when everyone knows that you have to be at least 20 years of age to enter a casino in person anywhere in Aotearoa. This isn\u2019t progress; it is exploitation and another method of invading our homes and our communities, and of ruining our lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother area of concern is that the self-exclusion register, a basic protection, will not be in place until 2027. I note that the Labour member mentioned that this bill is, effectively, introducing a new system. The concern is that the system will function without its most important safeguard, which is akin to opening a motorway with no speed limits and promising to install brakes later. That is not responsible governance; that is negligence. Who is it really looking after? Who is the system really being built for? Fifteen operators\u2014multinational gambling companies\u2014whose business model relies on addiction. The Minister herself has already admitted that revenue gathering is a key driver, so be honest! This bill is not about protection; it is about taxation of harm. It is about the Crown taking a cut while wh\u0101nau pay the price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELike I said before, our communities are already losing almost $3 billion a year to gambling, and what do communities get? Just $20 million in return. That is less than 1 percent of all their losses, and that is insulting\u2014that is insulting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPerhaps most offensive of all is that this bill has no mechanism to give effect to Te Tiriti o Waitangi\u2014no guaranteed M\u0101ori involvement, no co-governance, no recognition of rangatiratanga, no obligation to consult hap\u016B and iwi. The Green Party rightly pointed out that, once again, we have a Government glaringly undermining Te Tiriti and M\u0101ori rights as tangata whenua. That is colonial policy making in 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn 2026, the Iwi Chairs Forum\u2014yes, Rahui Papa did say \u201Cgambling harm by stealth\u201D. That is what this bill represents. But the Iwi Chairs Forum and M\u0101ori health providers have also repeatedly warned this Government against gambling harm, calling for a public health approach, strong regulation, M\u0101ori leadership, prevention first\u2014not market expansion, not corporate capture, and not deregulation disguised as reform.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s position is that money over mana is the opposite of mana motuhake. That\u2019s what we stand for. We are not anti-technology; we are anti-exploitation. We are anti-poverty. We could choose stronger age limits, lower licence numbers, advertising bans, mandatory M\u0101ori governance\u2014I could go on, but we\u2019ve only got 30 seconds on the clock, so I\u2019m going to make it count. Right now, this Government is choosing speed and revenue. What that looks like is m\u0101m\u0101 choosing kai over rent, p\u0101p\u0101 hiding debt, rangatahi chasing losses, kaum\u0101tua losing savings. This bill tells them, \u201CYou are collateral damage.\u201D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori says, \u201CNo, you are not. Your lives matter, your futures matter, and your mokopuna matter.\u201D We do not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a17be4e1937fe7f0ae52b5db62a60d2f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a17be4e1937fe7f0ae52b5db62a60d2f\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (17:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just want to begin by acknowledging that, in this country, countless lives are being ruined by gambling. Online gambling is a particularly aggressive form of harm perpetuated by companies that seek to make profit out of creating misery, hardship, debt, and splitting families apart. The Green Party is very, very conscious that we absolutely need a framework and law that actually puts harm minimisation on top of the agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat I am particularly concerned about when I see this bill is that harm minimisation does not seem to come at the top of the agenda; it seems to be revenue gathering. It\u2019s particularly tragic that we have a Government that is entrenching a system where the revenue gathered from harm caused by these corporations is one of the few lifelines that exists for sporting clubs and community clubs, and community organisations more broadly, as well. This is a broken system that has entrenched the harm that is caused by gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill, in my view, does not go far enough in reassuring us that harm minimisation, consumer protection, and advertising restrictions are genuinely on the agenda when they have been left to regulations. Particularly in the context of this Government and the Minister who is in charge of this bill, she has yet to show us that, in her legislative agenda, she has put the wellbeing of ordinary people over profit. You\u2019ve just got to look at some of the other bills that she has ushered through to look at the track record, which leaves me with very little confidence that the secondary legislation that will be, obviously, brought forward by this Government will genuinely put harm minimisation, consumer protection, and advertising restrictions at the forefront and centre.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParticularly concerning are the lack of prohibitions on advertising. This is an area that I do think should absolutely be prohibited, because we know that the advertisement of online gambling ultimately seeks to prey on people who are most likely to engage in gambling; people who have the most to lose from developing a gambling addiction, as well. When we know, particularly, how inequitable the harm of gambling is, what this means is that we leave the door open for predatory practices from these corporations to target some of our most vulnerable groups. The Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori speaker prior to me noted that some of these safeguards come into place quite a lot later down the line, and that is concerning. I also think that the safeguards and some of the changes brought by, well, New Zealand First taking credit for it, are still, nonetheless, not sufficient\u2014they\u2019re not sufficient.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc7f249a2f09005bdb91b34a48299311\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, because I actually know what happened. I know exactly what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221778f6097b6c23b935a912257e39d1b9\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take his word for it. But I nonetheless think that the protections that are being brought forward still do not put harm minimisation at the top. Online gambling has been a conversation that has led many of our rangatahi spaces online. There\u2019s particularly been concerns about how people with huge platforms have been co-opted by these online gambling entities to reach to young people in communities that are quite at risk of developing a gambling addiction. This is why we need a stronger framework when it comes to advertising that just outright bans it, because the online gambling entities are literally using people right now who have a huge amount of influence and reach, particularly within communities that are more likely to face material hardship; to actually be actors, and people who are not necessarily wearing the brand of these companies but are nonetheless enticing people to come and engage with online gambling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThis is why we think that primary legislation should have been one of the tools to create a framework to genuinely centre harm minimisation outright. No one is saying that prohibiting gambling is a genuine solution. We have not seen that being the case with other activities that can be addictive; it can cause harm. But any legislation that is genuine about reducing harm, we put that at the forefront\u2014as opposed to revenue gathering, which is what we\u2019ve seen here. This is why the Green Party is not convinced with the select committee changes and will not be voting in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022535c11f8c20cdf8c9cd7116480455077\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022535c11f8c20cdf8c9cd7116480455077\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (17:46)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. Second readings are an opportunity for us to reflect on the process that we undertook at the select committee, and I wanted to put on record my thanks to the many, many people who submitted on the legislation telling us about how improvements could be made to it\u2014particularly those sporting clubs and organisations from across New Zealand, but particularly from my home patch in the Bay of Plenty, who submitted to the legislation and got in touch to say, \u201CWe think you\u2019re doing the right thing, but we think there\u2019s room for improvement.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI hope those people know that we listened, we took that feedback on board, and we improved the legislation. My local cricket club that I play for, the Greerton Cricket Club, for example\u2014we heavily rely on the grant fundings that come through from lotteries and from other organisations to pay for our uniforms, to pay for our cricket balls, our stumps and everything else. That\u2019s why they got in touch to say, \u201CPlease ensure there is a return to the community.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to make one final acknowledgement, and that is to the Tauranga City Tridents American Football Club, because they got in touch with me and said, \u201CTom, you\u2019re our local MP. We would love to meet with you to talk about this legislation.\u201D So I got in touch with them; I met with them; I even put on the pads and tried them out with them at their own training and took it all on board. That was the most valuable thing of this experience: hearing from local sporting organisations to know how this legislation would impact them, to make improvements at the select committee stage like we did, and to get this legislation to a place where it works exactly right. That\u2019s why I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2cf13cd639fa0df12caa51b08d78bc1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2cf13cd639fa0df12caa51b08d78bc1\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (17:48)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. To start on a positive note, I\u2019d like to echo the previous speaker\u2019s acknowledgement of all of the people who submitted to the Governance and Administration Committee on this bill. We had a huge number of sports groups, specifically, but also community groups, submit, and it was actually really interesting. I know a lot of these sports were actually being played in New Zealand, and the people who submitted were, without exception, community people who just wanted to do something positive in their community. I really commend them for their advocacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll say one other thing. I think the committee did work really well on this bill. It\u2019s a slightly unusual situation with this bill, where we didn\u2019t have a representative of the ACT Party, and the Minister who\u2019s putting this forward is from the ACT Party. I think everyone on that committee, on the initial draft\u2014and, obviously, they can speak for themselves, but my impression was that everyone saw that the select committee could add value to this bill, and I think that you\u2019ll see that that is what has happened, in this case, but I have to say this entire process and proposal in this bill is a total mess. This is a really serious matter, because, as a colleague just said, gambling is a serious matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGambling leads to harm. Problem gambling can lead to the ending of lives, if not the effective ending of people\u2019s will to live because of how addictive it can be. This bill doesn\u2019t improve, in my view and in the view of the Labour Party, the status quo in relation to the provision of gambling in New Zealand. That is because it does regulate gambling, which sounds like a good idea. We\u2019ve said that we support that concept, but it allows 15 operators\u2014and these can be overseas operators, so a lot of that revenue that New Zealanders are paying will be taken offshore\u2014to legally advertise online gambling services to New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am so worried about this. It just means\u2014I can\u2019t find where my phone is, but you pick up your phone and it\u2019s there. Gambling is there. It\u2019s in people\u2019s homes. It\u2019s in front of people\u2019s children. We know that there is currently some overseas gambling at the moment and that it\u2019s not regulated. That is a problem, but this bill is not the answer. There are too many providers and there are not enough safeguards to ensure that this isn\u2019t going to perpetuate further harm within our community. I predict that this House will regret the decision to open up and legalise online gambling because of the harm it will create in our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is the harm part. There are allegedly going to be\u2014well, there are going to be regulations around minimisation of harm. We don\u2019t have oversight of that. We can\u2019t see what those are going to be. We don\u2019t know if it\u2019s going to be enough. My fear is with that number of providers, with the fact that we\u2019re not going to have a huge amount of resource\u2014well, not that we know of\u2014put into gambling harm, that this will not be sufficient to stem the tide of addiction that this bill will lead to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second thing that is really concerning about this bill\u2014which has been addressed somewhat during the process\u2014is one of the benefits of gambling, I suppose, is the fact that all of the gambling that\u2019s currently legalised in New Zealand returns a significant amount of their profits to the community. Most of our submissions were about how valuable that money is. I don\u2019t think many or any of the community groups actually liked gambling or were supportive of gambling, but they were very grateful that they were able to do their good work in the community with the funds from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe original draft of this bill had no community return at all. So when we hear speakers opposite say, \u201CYes, we heard all of the people saying they supported the bill.\u201D, actually, what they wanted was the community return element. It is good that that has now been brought in, but it\u2019s been brought in in such a messy way that didn\u2019t allow the Governance and Administration Committee or submitters to fully scrutinise whether that was going to be effective. I think it\u2019s a shame that it wasn\u2019t put in the first version of this bill. I think it\u2019s a shame that Cabinet in 2024 decided that there wouldn\u2019t be a community return element. I think that was out of touch. I think community groups around New Zealand should be praised for them getting that change into this bill, not the Government. The Government put this forward without community returns and they have put that back into this bill. So I want to commend Martin Snedden and all of the community groups from around New Zealand for actually standing up and saying, \u201CThis isn\u2019t good enough.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think they actually need more. I was convinced of the fact that the community groups that are doing so much in the community, even with this, are still underfunded. They\u2019re getting less funding year on year and it\u2019s not keeping up with the cost of living. That\u2019s maybe a problem for another day, but I don\u2019t think that will be solved by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo this is a change. As we\u2019ve set out in our differing view, and my colleague Lemauga Lydia Sosene has outlined, it\u2019s not the exact change that we want. It means that people are still relying on the Lottery Grants Board. They do good work, but sometimes there are delays. There is a better system, a more effective system that was advocated by Martin Snedden and the group of community groups that actually know how difficult it is to get lotteries funding out. We supported that and it\u2019s a shame that that hasn\u2019t happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is good to have the self-exclusion register in there. We do need to have bigger harm minimisation in place, so that is a positive element of it. But like many things, it really feels like this bill came to the House half-baked and without the proper thought through it, and this is such a serious thing. The thing that worries me most about this bill is, once we pass this bill, are we ever going to be able to turn back the floodgates on this online gambling? This is my plea to anyone listening on the other side of the House: get some advice about what potentially the impact of this bill will be. Is this really what you want for New Zealand? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s all very well us saying that we\u2019re going to vote against this, but it\u2019s the Government introducing this law, and it is a law that is going to be very, very difficult once corporate contracts are entered into, once these online casino gambling operations have started operating in New Zealand, to actually tell them, \u201CYou\u2019re no longer allowed to operate anymore.\u201D The resulting taxation impact that that will have is going to be a very, very difficult thing to turn back. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut there is time for the Government to just take a breath and just look at this bill and just say, \u201CIs this really what we want for our country?\u201D Personally, I think that we could do a lot better and that something so serious such as this should really be something where ideally there\u2019s bipartisan support. There\u2019s security in the fact that we know that harm minimisation is going to be prioritised. I mean, even Business New Zealand\u2014I pulled out a couple of the submissions\u2014said given how the bill currently stands on 15 licences without any requirement for the licensees to have a physical presence in the country, it is difficult to have confidence that its aims and its goals will be fully met.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBusiness New Zealand is saying that. There are so many submitters that had concerns about this bill, from the community groups in relation to community return, from the organisations that dealt with problem gambling, and I want to acknowledge those organisations as well. They receive very little funding and they do hard work in our community. We listened to a lot of the submitters. I know we had a day in Auckland. Melissa Lee and colleagues and I attended hearings in Auckland where we heard face to face from so many community groups who are doing such difficult work in the community. Really, they were just so concerned about the impact of this bill and the fact that there wasn\u2019t enough funding going into dealing with the harm that it caused. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is not too late to take a pause on this bill and to make sure that not only the community return stuff is going to work properly and is sufficient\u2014we\u2019ve put in our differing view that we don\u2019t think the percentage is high enough, so that\u2019s something that can be looked at. There haven\u2019t been public submissions on that either, so I think that that\u2019s something that I would really encourage everyone to look at as well. But the biggest thing is, obviously, the effect that it will have on New Zealanders. I\u2019m concerned about how we will stop young people picking up their parents\u2019 phones, their devices, seeing these ads, and getting addicted to online gambling at an even earlier age, knowing that they\u2019re doing something that\u2019s legal and that is sanctioned by this Parliament and that we know will cause them harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo I cannot commend this bill to the House. Genuinely, in good faith, I would ask the Government to look at this again and just re-examine whether this is the right step in the right way for New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c949a06d29bf56f5637f06db75d883d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. Welcome to the Rotary Club of Tawa. The House will resume at 7.30.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterItalicsCentred\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.58 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8f4eef089cf20e9ff8d7f911e8cfb23\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is resumed. We\u2019re on the second reading of the Online Casino Gambling Bill, and we\u2019re on call No. 9, which, I believe, is a National Party call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022 data-id=\u0022614bd3c2ad61ad5119be8b380f52d1df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002209a9e0ddcd6341e8a20426318dc0e6c3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022614bd3c2ad61ad5119be8b380f52d1df\u0022\u003EHon MELISSA LEE (National) (19:30)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, thank you so much. I won\u2019t take too much of your time, sir, but I just want to say that this bill responds to a reality that many New Zealanders already live with, and that is that online casino gambling is already well-established in New Zealand and it\u2019s very widespread. It is unregulated, and increasingly accessible, mostly from offshore operators beyond the current legal framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to make it very, very clear, so that people who are watching on Parliament TV\u2014you know, when you listen to the Opposition members, it actually makes it sound as though we are introducing this online gambling that never existed, and we\u2019re actually introducing it into New Zealand. It already exists. They don\u2019t pay any taxes. They don\u2019t provide any harm minimisation. They don\u2019t actually do any contribution to the community. So this bill is not encouraging gambling; it establishes a licensing regime for online casino gambling, to bring clarity, consistency, and protection to Kiwis in an area where status quo leaves them exposed to harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, by introducing a regulatory system for online gambling in New Zealand, we prioritise harm minimisation, consumer protection, and revenue collection\u2014yes, revenue collection. Through the taxes that we collect, 4 percent of that revenue will go to the community for sporting activities; the arts community, who actually do get funds from class 4 gambling, which is pokies. Pokies actually do contribute to the communities. This bill makes sure that we also collect revenue and contribute to the community. That is the great work of the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is about responsibility. It recognises personal choice, while acknowledging the role of Government in setting boundaries that reduce harm and protect the public interest. It\u2019s a pragmatic and proportional response to a fast-evolving digital environment. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ce71d7e1024dc05534758cf45eac0740\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022c1806d6310c56058d2246314f8c6220c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c1806d6310c56058d2246314f8c6220c\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour) (19:32)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s interesting to talk about the previous speaker, the Hon Melissa Lee, and how it\u2019s about revenue, and revenue gathering. Yes, of course, redistributing it back into the community\u2014yeah, that\u2019s a decent thing, but it\u2019s actually about harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe world has changed massively, and, yes, we need to figure it out with this online world and how it operates\u2014and, I guess, what I want to reflect on is a young person that lived with me for a number of years, and the unknown issues that came for him when it came to online gaming and then online gambling and what that looked like. I did not know the gravity of the situation but, for this young man, it became something that he struggled to control. Things got in the way and, for him, it was actually something that really ruined his relationship, ruined his family situation, and put things, in terms of his work and his opportunities, at risk. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we need regulation. On this side of the House, we\u2019re saying \u201COf course we need to regulate this. Of course we\u2019ve got to figure out how we\u2019re going to make this work.\u201D, because, as I said, the world has changed and we live in an online world now. So we have to find ways and mechanisms to ensure that we protect our people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEveryone\u2014no matter how young, how old; if you\u2019re rural, if you\u2019re city; wherever you are\u2014needs to be protected, needs to ensure that they get the help and support they need. Our concern\u2014and I know, as our spokesperson earlier, in her contribution, spoke about\u2014was that during the select committee process it was around exploring what was possible, but, also, how we actually get this right so that we don\u2019t create more harm into the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wish that we wouldn\u2019t have to be talking about online casinos or gaming and the harm and the horror that it can create in families and communities, but we have to. We have to be realistic around what this is about. For me, as I think of that young person and what he went through, yes, we have to make sure that we regulate the online casino gambling space, but we also need to lean in and not just think about the revenue it might bring in, the bit of money it might redistribute into our communities, because, as we know, often the money that\u2019s redistributed into our communities is money that is actually spent around harm, around hurt, around communities that are falling apart, and, so often, it\u2019s things like alcohol, like drugs, like gambling. So we need to make sure that we work on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have made it clear, our concerns of what is going on and what we think about this bill and how it opens the door up to offshore online casinos. Without a strong plan, we know that is going to create more harm, whether it be mental health, whether it be financial, whether it be the harm and hurt that is caused when people\u2014because, often, it\u2019s seen as a bit of a silent and an unknown condition in terms of when it comes to addiction. We look at things like drugs and alcohol, and, often, that is quite visible for people to see and it can obviously manifest itself in terms of family harm and in terms of people falling apart in terms of their own lives, personally and professionally. But it\u2019s the online space, it\u2019s the gambling which, often, goes under the radar. You can\u2019t smell, you can\u2019t look in people\u2019s eyes and see what is going on in terms of what is being done to them, or what they\u2019re allowing to be done to themselves. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut addiction is real. We know, when it comes to online casino gaming and gambling, that it is actually psychology. It is run by people who know the right bells, who know the right whistles, who know the right stimulation that will keep people there for hours and hours and days and years, and, often, they suffer in silence and take their families, their friends, their work colleagues with them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we want to be constructive\u2014want to find a way through. We know that regulation is required. We don\u2019t think this is the way. Of course, when we move into the committee of the whole House, I know we\u2019ll be putting up amendments and trying to find a way through that we can make this a little bit better than it currently is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbaf5517f27ec378bca0bb5ae1e53bcb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbaf5517f27ec378bca0bb5ae1e53bcb\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (19:37)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I agree completely with my colleague over here\u2014Melissa Lee\u2014earlier. The online gambling horse has literally bolted out of the stables, and it\u2019s not coming back. That is the world we live in. That is our reality now. It was a market that was completely unregulated. The National Party campaigned on better regulations so that all gambling operators actually play by the same rules.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill introduces a regulatory system that prioritises harm minimisation, consumer protection, and, yes, revenue collection. The proposed amendments by the Governance and Administration Committee will ensure that returns will go back to our community, our sports clubs, and the like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would just like to take this moment to acknowledge all of our local sports clubs in the Wairarapa, Tararua, and Central Hawke\u2019s Bay, and community groups that actually approached me on this. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002239b0f8a817fa3288a587e4f04ecb2df8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239b0f8a817fa3288a587e4f04ecb2df8\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri) (19:38)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been listening to the debate very carefully, and there\u2019s clearly a disagreement over what the purpose of this bill is. Is it to reduce harm with online gambling, or is it to increase tax revenue? Viewers listening to different speakers could form different views, but I think it\u2019s important, wearing my mental health spokesperson hat, that we look back at the documents and see \u201CWhat do the documents say about what the real purpose of this bill is?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe documents are very revealing, in three respects. First, in relation to the timing of the way the two oversight organisations operated\u2014that is, the Ministry of Health, via the Minister of Health; and the Minister of Internal Affairs and the internal affairs agency. Secondly, around what the Budget documents say about the purposes of this. Thirdly, some of the process around how this came to be in terms of where things lie in primary or secondary legislation\u2014so where the emphasis is on harm minimisation versus revenue grabbing\u2014where there are procedural gaps, such as an impact analysis, or why there might be an exemption, but, also, what various people have been saying from the Government side in the media, which do not add up to what the bill actually does. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo this is really prefacing questions that we will be asking in the committee of the whole House stage, but I think anybody listening, if you listen to the detail in these documents, you will see why it is very clear from Labour that this is about a revenue grab and this has nothing to do with minimising online gambling harm. Yes, there is an online gambling harm problem, and this is absolutely not the way to deal with it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have already heard that the harm will increase the exposure to advertising of online gambling on peoples\u2019 phones, in peoples\u2019 pockets, and to our young people, who already experience gamification; that is a kind of soft entry into gambling harm through the gaming sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut let\u2019s look at what the timing tells us, because\u2014and this is a classic example of where the Government of the day can use what I refer to as the \u201Ctyranny of silos\u201D around Government agencies to have the left and the right hand play different parts in a regime that is purported to have one purpose, but actually has another. What we can see very clearly from this is that the harm minimisation strategy that came out of the Ministry of Health came after the decision to allow online gambling and the 15 licences. So any advice that was offered to the Ministers happened in the context of that decision having already been made. If we have a look at the Budget-sensitive document\u2014this was from the Minister for Mental Health and it\u2019s dated 24 September 2024\u2014I quote: \u201CThe strategy also acknowledges the growth in online gambling and the Government\u2019s recent decision to regulate online offshore casino gambling through a licensing system expected to take effect in early 2026.\u201D I other words, the development of the draft strategy that was all about harm minimisation could only be about the harm minimisation that had already been allowed by a previous decision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, that meant that the ministry was very limited in the scope of what it could do. It couldn\u2019t say, for example, \u201CLet\u2019s not allow these 15 licences.\u201D or \u201CLet\u2019s find a way of preferring local providers because there could be more oversight.\u201D None of that was available to it very clearly in this Official Information Act document. This official document, which is budget sensitive and which was not released at the time of the decision, shows that that was a fait accompli.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are also documents that show conflicts in how the levy, which is charged through the ministry, was calculated. Let\u2019s be clear again: this is the tyranny of silos, where the levy that is applied to the so-called \u201Charm minimisation\u201D comes from one agency\u2014i.e., health, but under the Gambling Act 2003\u2014and then the regulation of that sector is made under a different one. In this one, there is official advice where there is a change to what is called the NCGM, which is a non-casino gaming machine. They tried to change the levy rates. Clearly, it says here at point 21: \u201CWe do not support the assertion that this change would take better account of harm from online gambling and consider the scale of changes too small to have such an impact.\u201D In other words, there is not enough money to actually address the online gambling harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen we look at what the Minister David Seymour has said when he was speaking about the Online Casino Gambling Bill. He said on Radio New Zealand on 15 February: \u201CIt will block overseas gambling websites from being accessible in New Zealand.\u201D In fact, the bill contains no mechanism to block those websites. So the Minister is incorrect when he says that the bill will provide for actual blocking of the websites. The Minister then tries to assert that it will somehow reduce gambling harm, but actually, offshore online casinos will be incentivised to market more widely to New Zealanders. He doesn\u2019t answer questions in that interview about the evidence that shows that increased exposure to online casino gambling harm is associated with higher rates of gambling harm. All he does is try to say, \u201CCaveat emptor\u2014buyer beware.\u201D Some of the arguments we\u2019ve heard tonight: \u201CGambling\u2019s been around forever. Young people should be smart and not make bad choices.\u201D\u2014when we know, in fact, that this is an addiction problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt does, in my mind\u2014and this is a little bit of an aside\u2014raise the question of why we are treating online gambling harm or any form of gambling as a non-conscience matter, when we treat other things like alcohol and drugs through the conscience vote. So the same kind of philosophies and mental processes apply, and the same kind of harms apply, but we don\u2019t treat it the same way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen we look at the impact analysis\u2014and it\u2019s really interesting that the same David Seymour, who\u2019s the Minister for Regulation; this bill has been led by his party\u2014on page 48, there is an impact analysis exemption. Yet we have put into secondary legislation one of the most critical parts of this bill, which is the advertising protocols. The advertising is one of the most significant levers that will be used to cause harm, because the advertising will be exposing our young people, regardless of what the rules say, because if they\u2019ve got a phone in their pocket, unless there are technical blocks\u2014which we have ascertained are not in the bill\u2014then they are going to be exposed. Yet the matter of advertising is pushed down to secondary legislation, rather than in the bill proper.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo it\u2019s really difficult not to see that this is a tax grab from the Government, and it\u2019s pretty cynical, when the Minister introduced the bill with no regard for the impact it would have on community organisations. So that change has been led by the community sector, after a great deal of work and a great deal of advocacy from Martin Snedden and others, but there was just blatant disregard for the impact it would have on the community sector and also on the fact that it is much easier to manage responsibility and accountability that is closer to home. How this Government thinks it is going to manage the offshore licences that will inevitably result from this bill because of the scale of the operators is beyond me and the devil will be in the detail; again, pushed into secondary legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to finish with some interesting statistics that have come from the Problem Gambling Foundation group about gambling in Upper Hutt. If we look at where community funding actually comes from, it\u2019s interesting because these figures are probably emblematic of what happens around the country. But in Upper Hutt, basically, most of the revenue comes from problem gamblers\u2014it said that very clearly here. Users lost $25,000 a day into 166 pokie machines in 12 venues. Upper Hutt City lost $10.5 million. Eight of the venues are in the highest deprivation areas of Upper Hutt City. So the majority of pokie losses are coming from the poorest families. That is a story that is happening all over New Zealand. At least if the Government wants to use this to balance its book, it should be honest about its ambition and its intentions, but it\u2019s very clear to us that this is not about harm minimisation; it\u2019s about collecting tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022 data-id=\u00221695209702985ac294b7709d5a9ec5ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221695209702985ac294b7709d5a9ec5ba\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula) (19:48)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare. Ka whakatakoto au i te pire ki te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EI commend the bill to the House\u003C/span\u003E.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263626d75acd1073f5aa387f07b6ecd21\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the amendments recommended by the Governance and Administration Committee by majority be agreed to\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAmendments agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Online Casino Gambling Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 55\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226394a0116a2d20f3a5e5bc02e27a5dfd\u0022\u003EAntisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022727cedf31ac7267069ed65faf1be69c5\u0022\u003ELegislative Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022218ad36db52c4bb3e3c5fdd1c8adfd40\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022218ad36db52c4bb3e3c5fdd1c8adfd40\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation) (19:50)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: I present the legislative statement on the Antisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c091e10a51b9d2e1e3dda63b49acb2e7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022469862171475cd4f548c24c5ed135c88\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022c7469ff478cadc25821c02adf605fef2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c7469ff478cadc25821c02adf605fef2\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister of Conservation) (19:50)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Antisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThis bill seeks to address poor behaviour from road users like fleeing police, illegal street racing, burnouts, disorderly dirt bike gatherings, intimidating vehicle convoys and siren battles, and, of course, doughnuts in places like Hamilton West and East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f17a5d222ae99a0eed3ef165d9267f35\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EWho\u2019s been doing doughnuts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d6c30e17ea85566f054057af1b85f187\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: These behaviours\u2014people from New Plymouth\u2014are disruptive to communities and can be dangerous for participants, road users, bystanders, and police. When the bill was first read in August last year\u2014and a great year it was\u2014I pointed out that this behaviour is becoming increasingly common. We\u2019d seen the event in Levin where seven people, including two police officers, were injured. These events have continued across the country, particularly in T\u0101maki-makau-rau, Taranaki\u2014of course\u2014Banks Peninsula, Bay of Plenty, Wanganui, Lower Hutt, and even down Rotokauri in Hamilton West, and Wairarapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022046a6d5049c7080f0bd2fe44d7401b50\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: All places we have cars.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228966454c32e512b8d001b1ae1e4ba7cf\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: There is a clear need\u2014all places where we have cars\u2014for police to have the correct tools and for courts to have the right penalties to deter this outrageous behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo achieve this, the Government has introduced this bill. It will produce and introduce a presumptive sentence in favour of forfeiture or forfeiture and destruction of vehicles involved in street racing, fleeing police, burnouts, and failing to provide details to help identify offenders. The sentence will also apply to those who are convicted of a new offence for intimidating convoys to penalise those who are driving dangerously and trying to intimidate the public\u2014even those at Wherewhere Road in Moawhango. The bill will give police greater powers to identify drivers who participate in street racing, burnouts, and intimidating convoys. It will also give police greater powers to close off areas where antisocial road events are happening, or might happen, to be proactive against these events that are growing in sophistication. And it will increase the fine for excessive noise from vehicles through speakers and sirens from an infringement fee of $50\u2014\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Erima tekau t\u0101ra\u003C/span\u003E\u2014to $300. The maximum court fine will increase from $1,000 to $3,000\u2014more than the price of a Crusaders and Chiefs game.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill was closely scrutinised and recommended to be passed by the Justice Committee, and I acknowledge and thank the members of the Justice Committee for the time they spent considering the bill and hearing submissions\u2014all powers to them. I also thank the committee chair and the rest of the Justice Committee for their swiftness, their pace, as they reported back two months earlier than scheduled. This means that we can pass the bill as soon as possible to address antisocial road use in our local communities and even near the proposed Woodend Bypass. This endorsement reaffirms that the bill is addressing one of the priorities for this Government: stopping antisocial behaviour happening on our roads.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPublic submissions on this bill were thorough and highlighted the disruptiveness of antisocial road use. Local councils, community groups, businesses, individuals spoke to the Justice Committee and described the different types of harm these activities are causing. Submitters spoke to the Justice Committee about how street racing and burnouts had created disruption and distress for them, keeping them awake at night and scaring their children, interfering with their sleep, their ability to come and go from their homes and streets, and making them feel generally unsafe. Submitters also gave examples of the kinds of behaviours occurring at these events, such as the destruction of property, excessive alcohol consumption, and intimidating behaviour. These submissions have reaffirmed why the bill is necessary to address the harm communities and wh\u0101nau are facing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESubmitters supported stronger deterrence and emphasised the importance of ensuring that penalties are balanced and proportionate and the intention of this bill is clear: it will strengthen consequences for antisocial road users but will also preserve and introduce safeguards to ensure consequences remain proportionate. Appeal rights are available. New exemptions are included if taking away a vehicle used for offending would be manifestly unjust or create extreme hardship to the offender or cause undue hardship to other persons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome submissions raised concerns about protecting civil liberties and suggested that increased police powers could unintentionally affect lawful groups and events like the Super Blues down in Wanganui. To be clear and address these concerns, I emphasise that new police powers to close and restrict areas are narrow. They only apply to illegal, antisocial events. I want to be clear that this bill does not target legitimate car enthusiasts and legal car meets, like that big\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c84c92cbb8bceb64575cb4b4162559a6\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: Street Drags in Wanganui on Saturday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022068ac470a88330defc7d57bfdd0b9fe9\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right. Our focus is on antisocial behaviour that is illegal. Importantly, we can be assured that many of the concerns raised during the submissions process were already addressed in the original drafting of this bill. A small number of minor amendments have been made to the bill by the Justice Committee in order to ensure clarity and workability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EOther changes to align this bill with the current law allow an appropriate judicial discretion to ensure sentencing outcomes are appropriate. The intention of this bill is to deter antisocial road use, no matter whether or not you\u2019re in T\u012Bnui or R\u0101kaihaut\u016B.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221309e07d4d09e5ec3cf0d42a71e9e58b\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Or Takanini.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fa42f49ac5e73d0d049ef1cee04d61d7\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Or Takanini. By making sure police have the powers necessary to address this kind of disruptive behaviour, and by introducing stronger sentences for offenders, we will make our communities safer for everyone and, of course, have better work stories. Given the Justice Committee\u2019s endorsement, the minimal changes required, and the safeguards set out in this bill, we can be confident that this bill will attend to and deliver on its intended purpose. Thank you. I commend this bill to this House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002263e45a0444837aa69fc7eb3ba8e78fb0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed80d257ac5579e50f388e49de980bd1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed80d257ac5579e50f388e49de980bd1\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North) (19:56)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure, on behalf of the Labour Party, to take a call on this bill. This is, I guess, described as an omnibus bill because it seeks to amend a number of pieces of legislation\u2014three\u2014and one set of regulations: the Land Transport Act, the Sentencing Act, the Policing Act, and the regulations that relate to offences and penalties under the Land Transport Act. It does so because it touches on a range of different things. This is not just about addressing what is antisocial road user behaviour in one sense\u2014perhaps in a vehicle\u2014but it relates also to the powers and opportunities that the police may have alongside those that might be in areas as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting factors that has sort of occupied the mind of the Justice Committee, that did look at this particular bill, was the fact that when you\u2019re looking at the type of behaviours that emanate from this antisocial sort of road use, fundamentally, it\u2019s talking about the issues\u2014and the Minister has touched on some of them\u2014when it concerns those that might flee the police or attempt to flee from the police; the illegal street racing, which is a terrible situation for any community to have to deal with, and members on this side of the House certainly sympathise with the disturbance that many community members have to face when they do have to experience, even if not in their own street but in the immediate or distant surrounds, illegal street racing. It also extends to include dirt bike gatherings\u2014this is from the select committee\u2019s report directly itself\u2014and then introducing this new offence of frightening or intimidating convoys, which I\u2019ll talk about in a moment, and the issue around noise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo this is a bill that touches on a range of different aspects when it comes to daily life. Many actually might think that some of these behaviours only happen in the twilight hours\u2014well, they don\u2019t. If we think about the opportunities that exist 24/7, many of these circumstances, whether they\u2019re intimidating or frightening convoys or something similar, do happen 24 hours around the clock.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Labour Party does support, very clearly, safer communities and safer streets, and we also support giving the police the tools to be able to provide and support safe communities for Aotearoa New Zealand. Now, the dangerous behaviours that go with antisocial driving behaviours\u2014they do cause real harm. They have the potential to cause perceived and actual harm to those who are part of these gatherings, en masse and individually, but also the harm that\u2019s caused through the disturbance and neighbourhood destruction that exists as well. The Labour Party will be supporting this bill this evening because it is the right thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou know, the select committee process that this bill went through was a little bit different, because it went to the Justice Committee but it was introduced by the transport Minister. I\u2019m not a member of that committee, the Justice Committee, but I do want to acknowledge all of those who worked on it, and in particular my colleagues the Hon Ginny Andersen, the Hon Dr Duncan Webb, and Vanushi Walters, who from our team were able to tease out some of these issues. I think the bill has come back to this House in a better and improved space than when the select committee did get it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the officials\u2014as we often do at this point\u2014who were able to provide the advice. I note that one of the police officers that was involved in the select committee process was retired Inspector Ross Grantham, who, up until recently, served as the Manawat\u016B and Palmerston North area commander, and so I want to acknowledge the work that he did as part of this, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhile we are supporting this bill, there are still some concerns that I do want to express on behalf of Labour around the workability of what is in front of us. While the Minister has himself touched on some of the changes that this bill does present and provide, there are still some workability challenges that we can see, based on our track record of other areas in this particular space. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill itself does create, as I\u2019ve said, this new offence of \u201Cfrightening or intimidating convoy\u201D. Now, I think that many of us can reflect on the fact that maybe members have been approached by constituents and others who have expressed real concerns about being intimidated or frightened by convoys of two or more vehicles. This bill will deliver the fact that that will, effectively, be an offence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt also delivers increased penalty provisions for excessive noise that might be generated from a vehicle. Now, that causes huge disturbance at all times of the day, particularly in the evening hours. I hear from my colleague the Hon Phil Twyford that in West Auckland, the nature of the sort of music that is beaming out from these vehicles often\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5252bdfba1333266e5eb18fb8244f25\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: C\u00E9line Dion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2e2bbe8d37143dc6b95cdab2263c96c\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is C\u00E9line Dion. Now, that perhaps should be an aggravating feature of that form of offending in some people\u2019s minds. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] Oh, my colleague Ingrid Leary might disagree about that. But the thing is this: it doesn\u2019t matter if it\u2019s a particular type of music or if it\u2019s a siren; the fact that it causes disturbance to the community is something that needs to be tackled, and this bill will deliver on that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill does also compel a registered owner of a motor vehicle to be required to provide information that would identify who is responsible for driving that motor vehicle when it relates to a specified offence, and those specified offences are contained in the bill. They are illegal street racing, sustained loss of traction\u2014you know, where the wheels constantly turn around\u2014and, of course, that new frightening and intimidating convoy offence, and if someone fails to provide that information without good reason, then the outcome could be that that vehicle is impounded for a 28-day period. The reason why we are supporting this bill is because there needs to be an opportunity to send a very firm message that the nature of this community disturbance and this destruction in neighbourhoods, physical and otherwise, is something that simply cannot be tolerated, and that is the view that we do have on this side of the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the changes that this bill does provide is it gives the police more powers to, effectively, clear or close an accessible area. Now, I know that in my own community, and we\u2019ve heard of this through the Horowhenua as well, there are circumstances where the police would love the opportunity to be able to move people on for community safety reasons, but they don\u2019t have the power or the tools to be able to do that in a circumstance such as where there is a mass group of people who are very, very sophisticated in terms of the organisation or arrangement of these meets that might come together\u2014not the ones that are tickety-boo, but the other ones\u2014and this would give the police the opportunity to, basically, shut an area that\u2019s accessible and require people to vacate or move on. If someone failed to do that, the provision in the bill is that they would receive an infringement notice if they were not able to do that. I note that the select committee has identified a few changes to make it a little bit more user-friendly, which I think is very, very helpful indeed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the issues that I think should be brought to the House\u2019s attention is the workability of this, because there is a provision in this bill that would require a motor vehicle that would be utilised in a serious offence, such as an aggravating failure to stop, street racing, the sustained loss of traction, or, indeed, those convoy offences, to have the court order, the forfeiture, and/or the destruction of a vehicle. Now, we all know that this is not something that\u2019s unfamiliar to the Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere have been photographs in recent memory of \u201CCrusher\u201D Collins, with the eyebrow, standing on top of a vehicle that has been crushed. Perhaps it\u2019s not the vehicle or the eyebrow as to why that\u2019s ingrained in people\u2019s memory, but Judith Collins indicated that when that law was brought in, there would be more than 10 vehicles a year that would actually be crushed. Now, when we look at the reality around how many were actually crushed, you only need one hand, excluding the thumb, and you\u2019d have one spare finger, to come up with the number of vehicles that actually went through this process. On the one hand, the police might have the tools, but if this is something that is not workable, then the real risk is that the community will think that there is going to be this mass level of crushing going on and the forfeiture of vehicles, but it\u2019s going to be very easy for people to plead hardship and get out of it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe would like to see the police have these tools to be able to deliver on this real community concern that exists, not just, as the Minister has said, in the Waikato or elsewhere, but all around the country. All around the country, members will have experiences of the disruption and disturbance that these types of antisocial road-user traits and behaviours do cause for their communities. So whilst we support this bill at its second reading tonight, we still express some concerns that the \u201CCrusher\u201D Collins effect, as an example, may actually not deliver the outcomes that this House may desire. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022 data-id=\u00221acc8ea749a39260541857a87cd4d98d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221acc8ea749a39260541857a87cd4d98d\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER (Green\u2014Rongotai) (20:06)\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe, kia orana, Mr Speaker. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou e te Whare. In my electorate of Rongotai, I often work with the local community police, and I\u2019m aware that there\u2019s a really awesome part of Rongotai called M\u0101tai Moana, which is up at the old Mount Crawford prison site. It was recently announced, finally, that the land adjacent to that is to become a regional park, and a lot of my constituents in Miramar were very, very concerned about boy racer behaviour and gatherings of people being extremely loud and disruptive in an area that is predominantly residential and quiet, with a beautiful expanse of nature there. I spoke with the police there about how they worked together with Land Information New Zealand, who, basically, had responsibility for the Mount Crawford prison site. They were able to put some cameras up there and through a reasonable amount of surveillance, they were able to use the existing law to impound a number of vehicles that were illegal, and it, effectively, stopped the behaviour that was happening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, this was able to happen under the law as it exists now, and so our feeling in the Green Party\u2014and I wasn\u2019t on the Justice Committee that heard this, but I did look through the departmental report and one of my colleagues, of course, was on the committee to hear the submissions. Ultimately, this is another example from this Government of legislation that is trying to send a message or a signal about cracking down on the bad guys, punching down on the annoying people\u2014you know, like the homeless people, who have been forced into homelessness on the streets of Auckland and Wellington. Just punch down on those people and give the police more powers to move them on to where\u2014we don\u2019t know\u2014which is going to sweep them under the rug. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is another example where we\u2019re taking up the time of the House to deal with something when there\u2019s no evidence that there is an existing problem that couldn\u2019t be solved under the current legislation, but perhaps with additional resourcing. It\u2019s true that this coalition Government is somewhat defunding the police and community police and the police definitely don\u2019t have the resources they need to enforce the existing law, and so we end up in this situation, where we\u2019re creating more law and giving more powers, but without the resources necessary to actually enforce them. I mean, I\u2019m sure the members weren\u2019t listening to the beginning of my speech, which was all about how the police have effectively used their powers in order to stop antisocial behaviour that was bothering the community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFirstly, the question is: is the legislation necessary to address problems, or do we already have the legislation? Secondly, the issue is that there\u2019s no evidence to believe that these powers will be effective for the bill\u2019s stated purposes\u2014and that was in the regulatory impact statement. So if you read the regulatory impact statement, it says that there\u2019s no reason to believe that these powers will be effective for the bill\u2019s stated purposes, it does not meet quality standards, and all evidence is of low certainty. So there we go. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere we have it: a Government that\u2019s constantly putting forward legislation to signal power and punishing the bad guys but, actually, isn\u2019t resourcing the Public Service to actually do the things it needs to do to address the problem. Secondly, it\u2019s bringing in a whole bunch of other legislation and policy that actively makes social cohesion worse by increasing poverty and homelessness and by increasing inequality. All of those things make social cohesion worse. I know it\u2019s a little bit hard for the members opposite to follow complex chains of events and\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae2e8ce8edf3bd6c4d09507d8bcf57a7\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Because they\u2019re all slogans\u2014no action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbeebe66dfffc65f77a084805e4d6e1c\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: They\u2019re a little bit slow. Yeah, it\u2019s just sad. It\u2019s just sad to me to watch the country face the challenges that it\u2019s facing and have so few effective policies brought forward by the Government of the day to actually address the issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill will also impose costs of up to $32.357\u00A0million on the Crown, with no indication of how these costs will be met. It\u2019s a relatively poor use of funding, considering the low certainty of any benefits arising from the policy. Of course, like so many other things that are happening under this current Government, it\u2019s quite likely that it\u2019s going to disproportionately affect people on low incomes, people of M\u0101ori background. The structural imbalance and institutional racism that we know exists will continue to be exacerbated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just have all these members shaking their heads and looking frustrated, but the members opposite are not engaging with reality\u2014not engaging with reality in the least.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4e3b0b1a4887f6fb8eccc79f25c59f2\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Have you lived in Levin?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220edd9ee08aeb08ede9a1df832161978a\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve been to Levin. The point is that I hear boy racers around my house. The issue isn\u2019t that. The issue is we don\u2019t need to change the law to address this behaviour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f8af118721592f2bf635217cbe664c4b\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, we do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c493040ad2af909826d36bb26567d572\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: No, we don\u2019t. I\u2019ve got evidence of it in my own electorate. Changing the law doesn\u2019t help unless you\u2019re providing the resources to the police to enforce the existing laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s another point: trying to focus on punitive measures is not going to stop dumb behaviour, because the people engaging in the behaviour in the first place aren\u2019t thinking about the consequences of what they\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224cf156d5f63f1933ed0fd4211fd1e178\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Well, maybe they should.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022908e377c8359746f7a245b5acaa59cbc\u0022\u003EHon JULIE ANNE GENTER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that is an interesting point. Should people think about the consequences of what they\u2019re doing? Yes, they should. But if we have lots of evidence that they\u2019re not doing that, why would you focus on increasing infringements or other punitive responses like sentencing if we know that the people engaging in the behaviour are not thinking about that? You actually have to deal with reality and work with effective policies that are going to address the problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think the real issue here is that the Government is full of simplistic people who want to take a populist approach that is focusing on the concept of good and bad people, rather than understanding the complex reasons that underlie the behaviour and addressing that behaviour in a constructive way. We have a lot of evidence, if you go overseas, of countries that are addressing antisocial behaviour in much more effective ways. They have lower recidivism rates, they spend less money on prisons, and their courts aren\u2019t as clogged up. We could choose to do all of that. It is a political choice, and that is what the Green Party would prefer to take. In my electorate, I can say that I\u2019ve worked constructively with police who have addressed precisely this type of antisocial behaviour and haven\u2019t needed expanded powers. We\u2019re extremely concerned about other steps that the Government is taking to punch down on people in difficult circumstances rather than addressing the issues that are leading to the fact that the people are in those difficult circumstances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt would be great if it could be less politicised in here. It would be great if people were more open to actually listening to the evidence. If we look at the submissions, there was not wholehearted support for this legislation as proposed. They were, actually, slightly more in opposition than in full agreement with the legislation as proposed. We\u2019ve seen time and time again since this coalition has come into power that they don\u2019t listen to the expert evidence, and they don\u2019t listen to the people who come and take the time to submit to select committee. It\u2019s all about appeasing vested interests and taking a populist approach in which they scapegoat certain groups of people as being responsible for the problems in our society, rather than understanding that those people are not necessarily the cause of the problems in the society; they are the victims of an unfair, unjust system. It\u2019s not any individual\u2019s fault, but it\u2019s the result of historic injustice in this country, and there is the ability for us to address this in a much more effective way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also think it\u2019s interesting how there\u2019s all this vice signalling about crushing boy racer cars while, at the same time, vice signalling about how motor vehicles are the answer to all of our problems, and that people should be using the Investment Boost to buy bigger, more dangerous cars that are actually probably more likely to kill people accidentally than any people who would be injured or killed from this type of gathering of young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgain, I think that this legislation is not needed to address the legitimate concerns that the community might have and when we already have police powers to address these issues. There is a lack of resourcing to enforce the law that we currently have, and if we focused on a fairer society, we would have less of these problems.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022 data-id=\u002292fb3b480a4538eff4d2c8757c893114\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002292fb3b480a4538eff4d2c8757c893114\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT (ACT) (20:16)\u003C/span\u003E: The ACT Party will be supporting this bill at the second reading. I just want to reflect on some of the reasons for this Antisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill. We have seen, time and time again, groups of people terrifying residents, not just in small towns but in cities like Auckland with dirt-bike gangs, groups of young people taking over intersections and intimidating people otherwise going about their business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the concerns raised by the previous member, Julie Anne Genter, about some of the practical issues of enforcement that have led us to this place to actually having to introduce new legislation to beef up police powers and to give them additional powers to get people to move on who won\u2019t leave a place where groups of people are congregating with vehicles in an antisocial way. It strengthens penalties against excessive noise. Now, I live in Te Atat\u016B Peninsula, along with the Hon Phil Twyford, where we are regularly exposed to people playing, at 120 decibels, C\u00E9line Dion in the middle of the night, doing loops of our blocks\u2014isn\u2019t that right, Mr Twyford?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d44799afda0f41e5d71504d56712059f\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d573ced2d3c1f118d3b2efa8578232d1\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014with fire sirens stolen from schools and council buildings and cable tied to their front bumpers, blasting us with a song that once used to put the wind beneath my wings but now causes me to go into an antisocial meltdown at 3 a.m. in the morning, so I agree that new laws to deal with making excessive noise are important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of the other things this bill does include requiring vehicle owners to provide information about an antisocial driver. In many cases, the vehicle owner can say, \u201CI don\u2019t know who was driving my vehicle.\u201D, when it\u2019s quite likely that they do know. What this legislation does is it aligns with the requirement to provide this information around antisocial vehicle use in the same way that if a vehicle is photographed by a speed camera or identified by an officer as having committed an offence but that vehicle is not apprehended or stopped at the time, then the vehicle owner is required to identify who the driver was. This legislation aligns very closely with existing legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s also a new intimidating convoy offence, because New Zealanders are absolutely sick of being forced off the road by convoys of people acting in an antisocial way who are exhibiting absolutely no respect for the road rules and who are occupying lanes, forcing people off the road, and just creating a sense of lawlessness in our communities that New Zealanders voted this coalition Government, with ACT in it, to fix. That is why ACT supports this bill. It is truly fixing what matters for communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of other things I want to bring up\u2014a couple of other things. I\u2019m going to admit now to a sustained loss of traction. I am one of those people who, in the past, might have enjoyed dropping the clutch a little bit too early, with a little too much accelerator. Fortunately, I grew up learning to drive manual, and that was one of the skills that we were expected to know: how to use a clutch. Sometimes, if you dropped it too fast, you gave it too much ollie, you spun your tyres. Now, that\u2019s actually part of the New Zealand culture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI don\u2019t know if anyone\u2019s ever been to V8 Supercars. I don\u2019t know if anyone ever saw Shane van Gisbergen win V8 Supercars. I was there at Pukekohe the last time they raced at Pukekohe. You see something phenomenal when a driver knows how to control a vehicle like that on the track. But after every race win, what do the drivers do? They line up those tyres and they demonstrate to all the punters exactly what happens when you drop the clutch too fast and you give it too much ollie\u2014sometimes in third gear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c32633da8b59a4f1487b42cb69cd2b1\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Julie Anne did it in Rongotai when she won it on her bike.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f096b1c27dc74fded004825d47b5a0f6\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Apparently you can do it on an e-bike, but I\u2019m not entirely sure, Mr Rutherford, whether that e-bike would even be legal in New Zealand, but maybe that\u2019s a matter for the Minister for Regulation: maybe we need to free the e-bikes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow Shane van Gisbergen\u2019s gone to NASCAR, and he is winning race after race on the street circuits. Now the American public\u2014those great people; that great nation\u2014get to see how a Kiwi drops the clutch and burns rubber. They thought they were good at it, but it\u2019s something that Kiwis excel at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, here\u2019s my point: it\u2019s all very well to ban people behaving in an antisocial way with vehicles on the streets, but my boys grew up in West Auckland, I live there now, and I could tell you there\u2019s a whole cohort of young people who are begging for somewhere where they can go and enjoy all of these, what you might call, \u201Cantisocial behaviours\u201D in a safe and controlled environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002282a812d6ebff7e33dc657da80aacbc05\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Who\u2019s going to provide that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265881a62b6595ac5b3486be289c9a7bb\u0022\u003ESIMON COURT\u003C/span\u003E: Some of the things they\u2019ve asked me: \u201CWhy isn\u2019t there a track where we can go?\u201D \u201CWhy isn\u2019t there a skid pad in West Auckland?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe member Andy Foster asked a question, \u201CWho\u2019s going to provide that?\u201D Well, my question is exactly that. I agree, because once you start thinking about who\u2019s going to provide the land, who\u2019s going to fence it off, who\u2019s going to charge them for tickets, who\u2019s going to do traffic control, how many people are going to need to wear orange safety vests and say, \u201CStand back everyone\u201D\u2014you kill it. But somewhere in the middle, there should be an opportunity for young people who want to do what they see Shane van Gisbergen doing after a NASCAR race, and he used to race in V8s in New Zealand, that\u2019s not on the streets, to have that outlet and opportunity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhile the ACT Party supports this legislation, I think, as a Parliament, we need to be open-minded to the idea that, actually, young people in New Zealand\u2014and maybe a few older ones\u2014need to have the opportunity to experience what sustained loss of traction is like in a controlled environment where you can manage the risks of noise, you can manage the risk to spectators, and everyone can have a really good time, a safe time, a clean time, maybe a bit of tyre dust, maybe a bit of soot, but go home safe.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT supports this bill. I want to make it clear to the House that there\u2019s a whole cohort of Kiwis out there who like to have fun with cars, and we should remember that as part of New Zealand culture, and we should make sure that in our pursuit of the bad guys\u2014the people who are behaving in an unacceptable way, causing harm, running people over, fleeing the cops\u2014we don\u2019t lose sight that, actually, there\u2019s a whole lot of good people out there who actually enjoy this stuff as well and they just want somewhere safe to do it. ACT supports this bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u0022cd02c671d884dc9e12d551abba27f85f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cd02c671d884dc9e12d551abba27f85f\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (20:24)\u003C/span\u003E: I really enjoyed listening to at least the last two speeches there. I thought that Simon Court was certainly losing traction over this piece of legislation. I wasn\u2019t quite sure whether he was supporting it or not, other than he actually said that he was. I thought that was the first time I\u2019ve heard ACT advocating for somebody to spend money. I said, \u201CWell, who\u2019s going to pay for that sort of thing?\u201D, and I imagine it would probably be likely to be a council in this situation, and God knows what that does to aspirations to core services or rates caps! Anyway, back to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has always resolutely supported looking after our law abiding citizens against behaviour which is anything but law abiding. We don\u2019t stand for the convenience of those people who want to behave in a way which is intimidating, which is frightening, and which disrupts the peace and welfare of their fellow citizens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill, very simply, is a common-sense bill. It gives the Police powers\u2014we\u2019ve heard some discussion about that already\u2014to intervene meaningfully, and it makes it easier for them to do that without some of the hiccups that there are in current legislation against\u2014intervene against dangerous and intimidating street racers, convoys, etc. That also includes the ability to proactively close off an area if the police think there is going to be a major gathering in that situation to try and nip it in the bud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor too long, many communities have been terrorised\u2014I use the word \u201Cterrorised\u201D\u2014by intimidating convoys, street racers, and burnouts. This legislation is an embodiment. It\u2019s one of many embodiments of New Zealand First\u2019s founding pillars. It\u2019s one of our founding pillars\u2014pillar three: protecting the community and the country. Our 2023 manifesto explicitly called for the confiscation of property of those who flout our, in this case, transport laws. Of course, we had this as a coalition agreement, committing Government to restoring law and order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook, we don\u2019t want anybody committing crime. We\u2019ve heard from some of the Opposition parties that we need to think about dealing with the causes of crime, and we\u2019d agree with that as well. But there\u2019s no compulsion. I mean, Julie Anne Genter\u2014she said some remarkable things there. She said that this was about another piece of punching down. She said this was about people being judged for their race or for their social standing. No, in neither case is that the case. What this is is about judging the behaviour. If you don\u2019t do the behaviour, you don\u2019t get punished. It\u2019s not about what your colour is. It\u2019s not about what your social standing is. It\u2019s about the behaviour. Simple as that. So I thought Julie Anne Genter\u2019s comments there were quite remarkable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EShe also made some comments around how it\u2019s not going to stop dumb behaviour. Well, the reality is\u2014and, in fact, we heard this today in question time\u2014that we are how many less victims of violent crime because this Government has got tough on crime? There are 49,000 less incidents of violent crime. So actually doing something seriously about criminal behaviour\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228196706856a6332400f4fc3a644c9954\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Cooking the books is not the same thing as reducing crime.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220207ec36ef31b7e699f7d1c4f69e685d\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014is making New Zealanders safer, and New Zealanders, by and large, welcome that; it\u2019s one of the areas they do see the Government performing well at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI hear the calls from the Green Party there, complaining about what I\u2019m saying. But this is the party which has had its police spokesperson say, \u201CDefund da Police.\u201D I mean, how is that going to help achieve law and order and keep law abiding citizens safe? That is what this legislation is all about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAlso, just on Julie Anne Genter\u2019s speech, I thought it was quite remarkable. It was the first time I\u2019ve ever heard a Green MP, essentially, campaigning on saving the car\u2014on saving the car. She doesn\u2019t want cars to be crushed, because they\u2019re really, really important. I think that was a great place for the Green Party to go, and I think maybe she was losing traction as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo this is a common-sense bill. It\u2019s about keeping our promises. It\u2019s about looking after the safety and security and wellbeing of our law abiding communities. It is not about looking after those who want to terrorise. It\u2019s not about looking after those who want to break the peace. I think that this is a common-sense bill. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00226486355e6ab41e90f37d8115849b8ff5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226486355e6ab41e90f37d8115849b8ff5\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green) (20:29)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m assuming this is a split call. So as we\u2019ve heard from our previous member\u2014the Hon Julie Anne Genter\u2014the Green Party will not be supporting this bill. But I think it\u2019s important to lay out what was said in the Justice Committee and by the submitters and also by the officials, in terms of what this bill actually does and where this bill really comes from.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs a number of members have already said, this bill is, essentially, an omnibus bill that addresses multiple areas, particularly amending the Land Transport Act to create a new frightening or intimidating convoy offence; replacing the six-month impound provisions with 28-day periods; broadening the existing power to compel a registered person to immediately provide information\u2014I will come back to that in terms of the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act implications\u2014and also, in terms of changes to the Sentencing Act, a new presumption requiring a court to order the vehicle be either forfeited or forfeited and destroyed on a first-offence basis\u2014I\u2019ll come back to that as well\u2014as well as applying to offenders who fail to immediately provide information to identify the driver believed to have committed a certain offence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think, as a starting point, we do need to address the policy problem. What is the problem that this bill is aiming to address? We hear a lot of things about boy racers, about people who are loud and, potentially, obnoxious in areas, and I would like to say that, yes, we have talked about, in this House, the importance of the quiet enjoyment of one\u2019s own home and about being safe in our communities, but a lot of those kinds of things also need to be based on solid empirical evidence. However, what we are seeing in terms of the regulatory impact statement is that there were limited policy options for consideration around this bill and there was limited evidential data on the frequency and trends of intimidating convoys, or use of common assumptions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPutting it in plain terms, the people who have said that this is a bill that is addressing behaviours, etc., are, essentially, saying it on the basis of anecdotal evidence, and there is actually nothing that substantiates what they are saying. There is no evidence to suggest, other than what we\u2019re seeing from the Government in terms of a populist approach and hot takes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002233d6c990c64e41428c25aa2fcb7c3bf3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022836965433f4c315f5ab41800379a9028\u0022\u003EFrancisco Hernandez\u003C/span\u003E: Vibes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4a28d5e3522b2bd8dfd1f571415d5f2\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN\u003C/span\u003E: Not even good vibes. Also, most importantly, there\u2019s a lack of consultation with stakeholders and the public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would like to pull up something in the Mana Mokopuna\u2014Children\u2019s Commissioner submission, which opposes this bill. I quote paragraph 18 here: \u201CThese proposals potentially infringe the rights of mokopuna, who are not directly engaging in antisocial road use, to freedom of association and to freedom of peaceful assembly under Article 15 of the Children\u2019s Convention. As [also] noted in the New Zealand Bill of Rights \u2026 if an individual is assembling peacefully the right protects them even if others are not assembling peacefully and for the Police to limit this right it must be justified.\u201D, which we\u2019re also not seeing in this bill. This bill is so riddled with gaps and legal issues that what we\u2019re going to be seeing, for a Government that wants to ensure that we have a smoother process in the courts, is it clogging up our court system even further with ambiguity created by this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are other things I mentioned previously in terms of this. Submitters have also said that the idea of vehicles being forfeited and destroyed on a first-offence basis is outrageously severe and disproportionate to the offence that we\u2019re seeing here. It\u2019s important to know that, out of all of these, what we\u2019re seeing from this Government is that if you are poor or if you are marginalised, all you\u2019re going to get from this Government are sticks. You are only going to get sticks, but if you are landlords, if you\u2019re corporations, and if you\u2019re tobacco companies, you\u2019re going to get carrots. This is what we\u2019re seeing in this bill and also, in general, in the Government\u2019s policy schemes. What we\u2019re seeing is a Government that is full of slogans, that is full of hot takes, and that is full of one-word phrases that they are trying to bamboozle the public with. The Greens will not stand for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022b67b490776e2153d479be8910ae83fa1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b67b490776e2153d479be8910ae83fa1\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (20:34)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve listened to two contributions now from the Green Party, and it\u2019s been really clear to us sitting on this side of the House that when you look at communities like Lyttelton Harbour, where my colleague Vanessa Weenink is the MP for Banks Peninsula, and you listen to the residents who presented to the select committee, the Green Party backs those that are participating in the burnouts and creating the noise and damage to the communities, and they prefer them over the impacted communities and residents. That is the really clear point that both Lawrence Xu-Nan and Julie Anne Genter made in their contributions. They have preferences for those that are creating the harm in the communities rather than the residents and the communities that are impacted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThink about the communities in Levin, who, on a weekly basis, were experiencing these meets taking place. The Green Party have just said, \u201CThat\u2019s OK. We support that. We think that\u2019s good. Actually, more of it is better for the community.\u201D\u2014shameful, shameful from a political party in 2026 to support that kind of legislation and that position. It is shameful that they can\u2019t actually see the impact that this has had on New Zealanders across the country, who are fed up with it, who want something to actually take place and to change. We are doing something about it, and we are holding those people who create and cause that havoc to account. Therefore, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u002225f1241c92dc96ad94de58a139098648\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002225f1241c92dc96ad94de58a139098648\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central) (20:35)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana, Mr Speaker. That was a bit shouty, wasn\u2019t it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002275c91eb6ccf24d019842f5b5d510d37d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e986fd53e073bbbfccc6041d990b08\u0022\u003EHon Peeni Henare\u003C/span\u003E: He dropped the clutch!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ebac132d9a4e0ed7031e377b687a0ee9\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s right, Peeni Henare! That was a bit of a burnout. But don\u2019t worry; life will go on, as Simon Court would say. I loved his C\u00E9line Dion references: \u201Cthe power of love\u201D, not from the ACT Party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen you hear from the Labour Party, you\u2019re going to get a sensible voice. We\u2019re cautiously in support of this bill, but I think, rather than shouting and just talking about burnouts in Levin, with a screech that\u2019s just about as loud, let\u2019s talk about\u2014we accept and we understand. I\u2019m the MP for Christchurch Central, and whilst it\u2019s not actually a problem to a huge degree right now, there have been times when so-called boy racers\u2014which is pretty gendered actually; the young women who love their souped up cars would be offended by that. People who like their modified vehicles would drive around Bealey Avenue and various other parts of the inner city, and it would be disruptive. We know that those vehicles are already in breach of many Land Transport Act rules, but it appears that this document, this bill and the policy underlying it, has said there\u2019s not quite the equipment there to stop that going on. That\u2019s why we\u2019re going to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe want to express a little bit of caution about it. We\u2019re not huge advocates of crushing cars. This has been said before: the National Party loves crushing cars\u2014and crushing women\u2019s dreams and pay equity. They\u2019re just good at crushing stuff. I think we do need to recognise\u2014and the Justice Committee generally works pretty well together, well chaired by Andrew Bayly, I must say, who it appears is not going to stand in Hunua at the next election, but I understand he may be standing for West Coast - Tasman\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dda5730ecbdb3ef92b14bab0acb3e585\u0022\u003EHon Matt Doocey\u003C/span\u003E: Christchurch Central!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295159d7ee6bb0d24187d2ae1e14435ce\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! He wouldn\u2019t stand for the Christchurch Central seat, Matt Doocey, because it\u2019s a safe Labour seat. It\u2019s part of the \u201CPeople\u2019s Republic of Christchurch\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn terms of crushing cars\u2014and members from rural electorates like Matt Doocey would know\u2014just taking someone\u2019s car off them because they\u2019ve done a burnout could be wildly disproportionate. This is the problem in a lot of the criminal justice area, where a punishment which sounds like a good idea at the time can impose a huge burden on someone, disproportionate to the wrongdoing given their personal circumstances. Maybe you\u2019ve got a milker on a farm who might live in Rangiora and work in Oxford\u2014a 30 or 40 kilometre drive. If you crush that car, you\u2019ve crushed his job, you\u2019ve crushed that person\u2019s income, and so on and so forth. It\u2019s entirely appropriate, rather than having a mandatory crushing scheme, that when the question arises, you can raise with a judge and say, \u201CWell, look, that would be a terrible thing.\u201D It\u2019s worth saying that not only would it be a disproportionate punishment and have outsized consequences for, say, me, who can still walk to work and grab an Uber whenever I want to, but it would also put that person in jeopardy. If they lose their job, what will happen to them in the future? Will they become disenchanted with the life they lead, not re-enter the workforce, and so on? So that\u2019s the kind of thing we\u2019re thinking about\u2014and that\u2019s good. The select committee looked at that and agreed with that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen we also looked at just some of the workability of the bill. Of course, the police are given a power to close off public places, roads and what have you, but it is a relatively significant power to close a stretch of Bealey Avenue or Queen Street or K\u2019 Road or any other street in the country because they hear about the likelihood of some kind of meet-up of the modified car fraternity\u2014I\u2019m not going to call them boy racers. There was a test in there that said, \u201Cbecause they believe there\u2019ll be substantial damage or destruction\u201D. One of the problems in the law is when you get these relatively vague words such as \u201Csubstantial\u201D introduced. So if you get someone who\u2019s going to do only one or two burnouts, you can\u2019t close the road, but if you get somebody who\u2019s going to do 10 burnouts, maybe you can. So that kind of discretion or that kind of vagueness is not really what we want in something like this. Interestingly, whilst the Green Party opposed this bill, the amendments were all agreed unanimously, and that was agreed as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut I\u2019ll get on to one of my bugbears, which is electronic service of infringement notices. This cropped up in the Gangs Act and various other places where, if there is a notice to be given to someone, historically or traditionally, you\u2019d have to serve it on a piece of paper. That person would hold that piece of paper, maybe stuff it in their pocket or in their jacket or whatever, but when they sort of came to and came to their senses, they\u2019d at least have something to look at. Now, under a lot of the more recent legislation, this is done by sending a notice by email, but not just by email, by email to the last-known email address. And that email address may or may not be valid, but even if it\u2019s valid, there\u2019s very little guarantee that it\u2019s actually going to be an email address which is still used, because I\u2019m sure members around the House will think, \u201COh, yeah, I\u2019ve got an email address that\u2019s from, you know, 1990. I haven\u2019t checked that for years.\u201D It may well still be a valid email address. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c55313ea74ed4b4b39c2261cb55fad04\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: 1990?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022574ecbc1b798bfff948c4e10076e1212\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I was an early adopter, Tom Rutherford.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b29d02a2d08a2b30c9cbdef277b714a\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EVery modern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281dbc49a83c9f6beb0d55be25c63c21e\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. You might not have been born then; I was on the internet at Massey University in 1992. But this is a problem, right? This is a problem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the concerns I have about this bill, and about the kind of shift towards electronic service of not just legal documents but documents which actually have a criminal law aspect to them, is that electronic service is not verifiable. If you hand someone a piece of paper and say, \u201CThis is a ticket. You\u2019re going to be charged. If you don\u2019t like it, you\u2019ve got to turn up to court and argue your case.\u201D; then you can say, \u201CI know they got it. They might not have read it, but I pressed it into their hand.\u201D Whereas if you send an email, you press enter and off it goes into the ether and there is no verification whatsoever that it\u2019s been read. I am concerned about that, and one of the reasons I\u2019m concerned about that is because we know that some people\u2014you know, they might engage in some stupid behaviour and do a few burnouts, but they\u2019re not a bad person, and if they\u2019re given their ticket, they would pay their fine. The challenge is if the infringement notice goes to the wrong email address, then the fine turns into a fine plus court costs. They might not even know that they\u2019ve got to pay it, and then they have an unpaid fine, and then there\u2019s a warrant for their arrest, and then they get put in the cells overnight, and look at where it\u2019s leading: exactly the place we don\u2019t want it to lead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, really, electronic infringement notices have huge pitfalls. I\u2019m not saying don\u2019t use them, but as the select committee report notes, there are pitfalls which have not been worked through. If we\u2019re going to go down that road\u2014and I get that we\u2019re in a modern society\u2014we need to work through the pitfalls of using electronic communications for not just legal notices but legal notices which have a criminal aspect to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, look, I get it. We totally sympathise with New Zealanders who don\u2019t want their lives disrupted by antisocial road users, but let\u2019s make sure we get this right because we want it to stick and we want it to have the social licence which is appropriate to it. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u0022718cb81c78f604e85cece8819d0da7ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022718cb81c78f604e85cece8819d0da7ac\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui) (20:45)\u003C/span\u003E: If you listened to the Opposition over the course of the last few minutes and you get told that you can\u2019t use this term \u201Cboy racer\u201D, you\u2019d think from some of their speeches that they want us to talk about these drivers as safe drivers or reasonable drivers or considerate drivers\u2014or, you know, probably even legal drivers, with some of the language that\u2019s been coming out of the Greens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EWe said to New Zealanders that we were going to deal with antisocial road users\u2014with boy racers that go out at 2 o\u2019clock in the morning, get loud, do burnouts, drive down the roads that they shouldn\u2019t\u2014and ensure that police have the power to deal with them. This is what this bill does. It ensures there\u2019s clear sentencing to enable police to go and say, \u201CThis is illegal and you\u2019re going to get your car crushed as a result. You\u2019re going to get it taken off you.\u201D And frankly, so you should. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u00226abd94e865e1fcbd173c278a8f6414dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226abd94e865e1fcbd173c278a8f6414dd\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour) (20:47)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. And yeah, I join with my colleague the Hon Dr Duncan Webb in cautious support of the bill at this stage, but looking forward to a truly robust discussion at committee stage, because, as Dr Webb has pointed out, there are several things that we need to look at in detail in this bill to ensure that it\u2019s fair, and making law is about fairness, as well. I think it was quite revealing\u2014the last speaker\u2019s comments about \u201Cdealing with\u201D as opposed to ensuring that we have law that is fit for purpose, that is fair, and that is just; that is our obligation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut I am supporting this bill because, having sat through the Justice Committee hearings, there were a number of times when I was quite surprised myself at some of the comments and some of the experiences that submitters spoke to, including some community leaders who talked about people congregating in cars with a decibel machine, themselves measuring their own sound to always make sure they were under what was an infringement, but still playing things rather loudly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are clearly some issues that do need to be addressed. We acknowledge that. I\u2019ve also sat in a community patrol car in Massey at one stage and did the evening patrols with them, and it was very clear to me that there are some issues that do need to be addressed. But we are a House of lawmaking and it isn\u2019t about dealing with or dealing to; it is about getting things right and the ensuring that we\u2019re fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo I did just want to speak to one issue that I\u2019ve raised at select committee, which I\u2019m looking forward to discussing in the House. It\u2019s an interesting issue about rights, but also the question of privilege and being able to not have to say something to a police officer that may incriminate you, essentially. Now, the interesting thing about this is the existing Land Transport Act already has provisions that require people to provide information to police officers in relation to who was driving a car. This bill splits that into two new provisions: one under replacement section 118, inserted by clause 20, which requires that if certain offences are committed, the person in the car, when they\u2019re asked by the enforcement officer, must tell them who the driver is; under replacement section 118A, a similar power, but the individual asked must tell the police within 14 days who the driver was. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo the question here is: does this breach a right, does this breach the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act? Now, the section 7 report was extremely helpful here. It, essentially, said that the right to self-incrimination under the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act was not breached, because to engage the right, you need to be arrested or detained or charged with an offence, then you can refuse to say something. Now, the catch here\u2014and this was acknowledged when we went through the select committee process\u2014is: if you have an individual who\u2019s been charged with a separate offence, who is being questioned about the separate offence, and you then invoke this provision, they could potentially be caught and they could potentially be being asked to reveal that they are the driver, and, if they don\u2019t reveal that information, they could be fined for it, or, potentially, even serve a term of imprisonment. So that is a gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe do also have the terms of the Evidence Act, which assert a right to non - self-incrimination. But, interestingly, we have case law that the Land Transport Act overrides the Evidence Act provisions. So the question that we need to think about at committee stage is: do we want to write in something that allows people the right not to have to name the driver, if they are, in fact, the driver? Now, speaking to colleagues about this, some said, \u201CWell, that would make it quite obvious to the police who the driver was.\u201D, which is fair enough; however, the police would still need to prove it, and also the individual concerned wouldn\u2019t be liable for the potential $10,000 to $20,000 that they would have to pay for breaching and refusing to say anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgain, colleagues, across the House, it\u2019s our responsibility to take our job seriously and to ensure that the legislation is fair. So I do hope that this is an issue that we can discuss robustly when we get to the committee of the whole House stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u00221bb611c5590cd38ded373f51b20c0630\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221bb611c5590cd38ded373f51b20c0630\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (20:52)\u003C/span\u003E: This bill is simple. It creates tough legal measures to deter such vehicle-related behaviours like illegal street racing, intimidating vehicle convoys, siren battles, and fleeing police. In my days in Auckland, there were a few areas in Auckland that were particularly susceptible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221d24574dcbc42fed8a7278329e99541\u0022\u003EHon Simeon Brown\u003C/span\u003E: Not Pakuranga.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dfb3c6aa06188e6ceb332050dedc639e\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, East T\u0101maki there, Mr Brown, was one place; Wiri, and out in Wairau Valley, as well. With this bill, there will be new powers to call the police to deter such activity. This is all part of our Government\u2019s plan to restore consequences for breaking the law, and to keep our communities safe. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022144e94f770bbcb99df012792020f3331\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022144e94f770bbcb99df012792020f3331\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour) (20:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s always a privilege to stand and speak in this House. Yeah, it has been really interesting, as someone who didn\u2019t sit on the Justice Committee, to sit and listen to the debates from all sides of the House. I can understand, I can hear different opinions, different views and values. But what I want to reflect on in my contribution, in reflecting on this piece of legislation, is that the Government was elected, they talk a big game about being tough on crime, but we really need to think about being tough on the causes of crime. I guess this is a bit of legislation that is a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec160d2f4b439a51eb6741f1af8d03a\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Tell that to the victims.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224091f715e9b69391a978c650bd10196a\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Why are you heckling, when I was encouraging you? I was being supportive for a moment, and I\u2019m being heckled, but that\u2019s OK, because they weren\u2019t probably listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut what I was going to say is that we need to be tough on the causes of crime and understanding. So, yeah, we can put laws in place\u2014and, as has been said by previous speakers on this side, you know, \u201CCrusher\u201D Collins, and other kinds of symbolism of legislation\u2014but it\u2019s got to be practical, it\u2019s got to be enforceable. There\u2019s got to be ways to deter people from getting into these spaces\u2014and also just the unintended consequences of it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, I\u2019m going to put myself out there and make a statement in this House, which, hopefully, no one else will talk about, other than those of us in the room. But I\u2019m not sure if anyone has actually had their car impounded before. I have. It\u2019s not a good thing. It\u2019s not a pleasant experience. Now, there is a backstory. I wasn\u2019t driving the car; it was one of my foster boys. So it was impounded for 28 days\u201428 days. There was also a cost to have that car taken out of the impound once the 28 days were completed, which he had to raise and pay me off over a number of months. I know that I have choices and options, so I can\u2019t fully relate, but the inconvenience of not having a vehicle for 28 days is massive. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look around the community that I have been part of for many, many years, and, so often, you see people who, rightly, lose their licence; who, rightly, are arrested for crimes that they willingly did; but the implications and the unintended consequences that come with that\u2014and examples of young people that I\u2019ve worked with over the years who have lost their jobs because they made a foolish decision on a Saturday night, they did a stupid wheel spin in front of a cop because they didn\u2019t realise it was a mufti cop, got their car impounded, or whatever\u2019s happened, and it\u2019s escalated from there, and then, of course, haven\u2019t been able to get themselves to work, or had a mate drive them to work for the first week, and then they got a bit sick of getting up early, so then it snowballed into them losing their job, being back in a situation where they are sitting on social welfare. Yes, as I said, these are choices that people make, but these are actually consequences that can often unravel people who are in a position when they are struggling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look in New Plymouth and around Taranaki, and we\u2019ve got a couple of key places\u2014Lake Mangamahoe. When I was the local MP there, it was often a point of contact with constituents. It\u2019s just out of town and it\u2019s a nice big area where they can do wheel spins, lose traction, that type of thing. It was a menace to the locals. I would meet with them regularly, and we would try to work with the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022374b3cfbb06d35c8589c47da921bde2c\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Taranaki hardcore!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c5cfb4e442ebbdd41dbbf9555abe656\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I\u2019m not hardcore at all, thank you. It was awful for the residents, as others have talked about, because at midnight or 1 o\u2019clock or 2 o\u2019clock on a Sunday morning, the last thing you want is a bunch of young people drinking and the noises that go with that. But there are tools that the police do have. And again, it was around how do they actually educate and work with some of those young people\u2014because they were mainly young people\u2014around showing them other ways and alternatives. Actually, from that, what was created was a small burnout space and a festival that would take place once in a while with the consent and support of the police, out of the way of the public, but where they\u2019re able to let out that kind of that steam and that youthful enthusiasm or whatever it is. And it actually worked to help take away some of the angst from the community. So that\u2019s what I mean: we need to be looking at ways and means to actually support our communities and people finding solutions for themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI lived in Wellington in the 1990s and a lot of you people would probably go to and fro from the airport\u2014Kent and Cambridge Terrace\u2014and again, the council did something really simple. Because there was Kent Terrace and Cambridge Terrace, they kind of run parallel to each other, and the boy racers\u2014I remember in the 1990s\u2014would just go up and do loops and spin around. There were these kind of turning bays where they\u2019d be able to do that. But then of course, what did they do? Just something really simple like closing off the turning bays; the fact that now they\u2019re not able to use those spaces. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo I think there\u2019s a few simple things we need to be thinking about, but I think we need to reflect. My colleague the Hon Duncan Webb also made it clear just about some of those unintended consequences of the means of communicating a fine with a person who\u2019s had it, and we need to consider that. But I think that being punitive and just punishing people doesn\u2019t achieve\u2014it\u2019s a sugar hit for now, but it\u2019s actually something we need to be reflecting on: how do we actually fix it for the long term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, as I look through the piece of legislation and was trying to understand a bit about what it is, again, I feel like we are supporting it and we\u2019re going to\u2014I was glad to see that the select committee had worked on it and had brought it back to the House in better shape than it left this House after the first reading. And I hope that in the committee of the whole House stage, there\u2019s going to be some good opportunities to put amendments up and to ensure that this piece of legislation is a bit better than it is now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing I want to mention is, as I said, around myself and my experiences understanding the police being able to impound a vehicle for 28 days. There\u2019s also the police allowing the courts to prohibit offenders from acquiring a vehicle for up to 12 months. Again, in the cities, potentially that\u2019s OK, but when it comes to rural areas, like Taranaki, when it comes to rural areas like the West Coast of the South Island, when it comes to rural areas like Coromandel, there are no options. Again, of course you can say to a person, \u201CWell, don\u2019t do the crime, and you\u2019ll be fine\u201D, but actually sometimes there are those lapses of judgment or those moments when people don\u2019t think, and it actually goes against them, and it\u2019s hard to see. I know that, for a number of our farm workers, often those are the ones who suffer from this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, we\u2019ve tried to be constructive. As I listened to Tangi Utikere, our transport spokesperson, I was glad to hear him reflect on what we could be doing to ensure that legislation isn\u2019t just about presenting to the electorate and showing them, \u201CLook, we\u2019ve got this document\u201D, and it looks like we\u2019re really tough on crime, but actually saying, \u201CWe\u2019re going to do something to ensure that, as people grow up, as they get their licence, they\u2019ll actually be taught things like defensive driving and what it actually means when you impact on other people.\u201D No one wants to have a boy racer up and down their street\u2014I get it. No one wants to be woken up at 3 o\u2019clock in the morning by a convoy of\u2014I was going to say mobility scooters, but I don\u2019t know if they\u2019d be out that late at night!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat was the other thing I was looking at; it was the convoys. I was thinking, \u201CWhat actually is a convoy?\u201D What are the vehicles? It could be some mobility scooters. It could be motorbikes. Again, it is an issue that does face many communities, and I just hope that this isn\u2019t just a blunt tool that is virtue signalling to voters that we\u2019re tough on crime. I hope, when it comes out at the end of the process, that maybe there are some actual tools and some tangible things for people to be able to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMy final thought is my concern for the police. Of course, we know we don\u2019t have enough\u2014we know we don\u2019t have enough. We know that what was promised at the election hasn\u2019t been delivered, and so the expectation on our police force to have yet more laws that they have to enforce with less staff\u2014because that was made very clear, around the 500 front-line police officers which haven\u2019t been delivered. The concern around throwing another chunk of legislation at police that they have to enforce: that\u2019s more paperwork, that\u2019s more they have to do with less resources, and we need to really consider our front-line police when they\u2019re doing this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d7b901f79ccc291447dc8fb80009cb5\u0022\u003EPersonal Explanations\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9998fe6c53b518874ce96d3bb2f6536\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2 to Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a29596ff7063b47423d9b1527ca44a0a\u0022\u003EAmended Answer to Oral Question\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u0022ead35b4f8d54160dd90fa3ccef34a203\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ead35b4f8d54160dd90fa3ccef34a203\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (21:03)\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to make a personal explanation to correct an answer I gave during oral question No. 2 earlier today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b9ecc06af90e47e6458bb23f71f473c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002257c844cdfb1d619285db9bd8233f799c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answers to oral question No. 2 earlier today, I was asked by Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick whether the Government would automatically commit to extending visas for people who are in this country right now whose home countries have been affected by this war, as happened in the context of the invasion of Ukraine in 2022.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003ETo be perfectly clear, Immigration New Zealand has a well-established process for international conflicts and will facilitate and take a pragmatic approach to visa renewal when people are unable to return home. This was not an automatic process in the context of the invasion of Ukraine, and decisions will continue to be taken on individual visas. Iranian nationals who are concerned about their visa status should contact Immigration New Zealand. This also applies to those people whose travel is disrupted and whose visas are close to expiring. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b585a9d5099f0010a7a540d336d731f0\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a36b0fc2bc2c802688831f5d4a682f9b\u0022\u003EAntisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022012772e7c2e40cb49885d939e5671482\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000771\u0022\u003EDebate resumed.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022da68b8bbf95354b71884a36f7f13a25a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da68b8bbf95354b71884a36f7f13a25a\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (21:04)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It really is a pleasure to rise in support of the Antisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill, but I\u2019ll tell you what, it wasn\u2019t a pleasure for that submitter who was crying while she was recounting the almost daily situation she has to endure with these reckless drivers that don\u2019t give a hoot about what she and her family are going through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003ETo hear one of the Green Party members say that all this is based on an anecdotal evidence\u2014God forbid we actually listen to our constituents, who talk to us and cry about what they\u2019re dealing with! No, we\u2019ve got to listen to the elitist academics, if it\u2019s up to the Greens. I\u2019m looking forward to how much relief this will give our neighbours in our electorates. It\u2019s not just virtue signalling; it\u2019s actually listening to them. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u0022a551d29b59ded39b9deabb0e1407ba73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a551d29b59ded39b9deabb0e1407ba73\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East) (21:05)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a really sensible approach. I don\u2019t know if anyone else has had a house where they\u2019ve had 200 cars go past or create convoys or build up or block traffic and are involved with alcohol and drugs. It can be quite intimidating for the public. This is a very pragmatic, practical bill, and we\u2019re very pleased to commend it to the next stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Antisocial Road Use Legislation Amendment Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 21\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a second time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022981c7a3d46140cac3b88231df8c2a24b\u0022\u003EHealthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a010b9eb1c8b8341815a3757bc2cfedd\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u00220a70dddbc428ecdaaad93dc4a0368acc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220a70dddbc428ecdaaad93dc4a0368acc\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health) (21:07)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill be now read a second time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is about ensuring we have a healthcare system that puts patients at its centre. New Zealanders deserve a health system they can trust, one that delivers timely healthcare and puts patients first. Our Government is committed to one healthcare system for all New Zealanders and one that delivers healthcare in a timely and quality manner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is a key part of our Government\u2019s health delivery plan. It backs my key priorities for Health New Zealand, focusing on the basics, achieving clear targets, and investing in infrastructure, so we\u2019re fixing the basics and building the future. Currently, the Pae Ora Act is focused on bureaucracy rather than patients, with principles and plans causing confusion rather than clarity. This is why we\u2019re adding a new purpose to the Act to ensure that patients get timely access to the healthcare services they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Government is focused on delivery, but we need to also be clear that you cannot manage what you don\u2019t measure. That\u2019s why this bill is putting health targets into law, health targets that the previous Government removed. For our Government, reinstating health targets is about delivering good healthcare and restoring trust, ensuring patients can see progress and know that there is delivery against them. This Government is doing just that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge and thank the Health Committee, chaired by Sam Uffindell, for its careful consideration of the bill, and I\u2019d also like to thank the many patients, organisations, and individuals who took the time to submit. This bill will legislate health targets in six areas to support our focus on delivery for patients. All health entities, including Health New Zealand, will be required to give effect to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was strong support across many submissions, including from public healthcare professionals, for the reintroduction of targets\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4ad39936dc8e4b28fc22a70f8683837\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: That is rubbish.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ddb8f40e8163109faa7b3c2f0d6f9d3\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what was rubbish was when they removed health targets. Let\u2019s talk about what happened when the Opposition removed health targets. Childhood immunisation rates plummeted. Back in 2017, under National, 92.4 percent of children were immunised by 24 months. By 2023, those numbers had dropped significantly, to just 77.1 percent\u2014a terrible outcome left behind by the previous Government, an outcome which they still refuse to accept and acknowledge that they delivered. That went backwards even further for M\u0101ori children.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOur latest quarterly results show 82.6 percent of children are now fully immunised by age two, up from 75.7 percent the previous year. That target had the biggest annual gain across all health targets and proves that by ensuring that you have targets in place, that you measure against them, it actually ensures the system delivers for patients. That is one of the key targets and key focus areas of this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re also seeing progress in our emergency departments, where wait times ballooned under the previous Government to levels that were simply unacceptable. The number of patients admitted, treated, or discharged within six hours when the previous Government came to office was 89.2 percent. It was 67.5 percent when they left office. Again, they are the facts, and that is what they\u2019re trying to say\u2014that is what they\u2019re trying to defend. The latest quarterly results, again, show patients are spending less time in emergency departments after years of decline.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are turning around the mess left behind by the previous Government in our healthcare system. In elective surgeries, wait-lists ballooned over the years that they were in charge, with 97.3 percent of patients being treated within four months in 2017, falling to 62.1 percent in 2023 when we came back to office\u2014again, showing that outcomes went backwards under the previous Government. Again, we\u2019re starting to see progress, with the latest quarterly data showing that since January last year, the total wait-list reduced by around 8,000 patients. That is a significant reduction, but we know there is still significantly more work required to ensure all New Zealanders are getting timely access to elective surgeries that they need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you don\u2019t measure it, how can you manage it? The previous Government were prepared to stop measuring it, and guess what? They stopped managing it, and New Zealanders paid the price. Wait-lists ballooned, children weren\u2019t being immunised, our emergency departments became overflowing\u2014we are now fixing the mess left behind and we are taking up the challenge which we need, which is ensuring all New Zealanders get the care that they need. I do acknowledge there are long wait-lists. We are making progress, and it\u2019s good to see the work that is being delivered by our front line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill also addresses hospital infrastructure, and there are several examples across New Zealand where infrastructure projects identified and funded by the previous Government suffered from poor management and significant delays. I\u2019ll give you an example of the new Dunedin hospital, where they spent six years talking about it. We signed a contract for it in the middle of last year. It\u2019s now under construction\u2014six years of talk under the previous Government. Let\u2019s talk about the Middlemore Hospital recladding: announced funding in 2018; we started construction of it last year, because they failed to manage it under their watch.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill embeds infrastructure as a core objective and function of Health New Zealand and establishes a dedicated infrastructure committee\u2014again, something that they forgot about when they were in Government. There was widespread support across many submissions for this approach. I want to acknowledge the improvements made by the Health Committee in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother key change is removing ambiguous and unclear parts of the legislation that have created layers of uncertainty. The health sector principles are a laundry list of ambiguous and overlapping requirements. They\u2019re being repealed in favour of a system based on clear and focused targets for patients. The previous Government\u2019s health charter is also being repealed. The charter created unclear priorities and had a complete lack of focus on patients. In fact, it mentioned patients zero times but mentioned the unions 11 times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOur focus is on patients. Our focus is on reducing wait times and wait-lists for patients. Our focus is on delivery. The Opposition\u2019s focus is on unions. Well, on this side of the House, we\u2019re on the side of patients, and that is what the system is designed to deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill is also strengthening the role of both the Hauora M\u0101ori Advisory Committee and the iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards. The bill clarifies that iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards will provide advice on local needs and priorities to the Hauora M\u0101ori Advisory Committee, whose role is being enhanced. It provides advice to both the Minister and the board of Health New Zealand, ensuring M\u0101ori health voices are at both a local and national level, with clear pathways, and for their input into decision making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill also clarifies that existing obligations to uphold the Public Service principles of political neutrality and follow the Public Service code of conduct apply to those working in Health New Zealand. These obligations have applied to Health New Zealand since it was created; however, this clarifies those and makes them clear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to thank the Health Committee again, and particularly the chair, Sam Uffindell, for its diligent work in considering the submissions and the changes made to this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to finish by saying very clearly that on this side of the House, we\u2019re on the side of patients, we\u2019re on the side of delivery, and we\u2019re on the side of making sure that the legislation is clear as to what Health New Zealand is to deliver. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245125f2e64cad261b2819345495193fd\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: OK, so just a reminder for all members in the House\u2014and it happens on both sides at various times\u2014when you all shout at once, nobody can hear a single word anybody\u2019s saying, so it\u2019s not very effective. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u0022994411d70135944f7f77d1cc70fc91f5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022994411d70135944f7f77d1cc70fc91f5\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour) (21:16)\u003C/span\u003E: An alternative view is that we save the poor people at home from hearing what may not be, well, useful contributions\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283d9fface9cfc8624ddb63b56c674d51\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The unfortunate thing is the people at home can only hear the person with the microphone, mostly, so it\u2019s of no benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022757e0ac46faaf445b2188945643357b9\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL\u003C/span\u003E: I also want to start by thanking my colleagues on the Health Committee. It was a good opportunity to hear from people concerned about healthcare, whether they are from the community or hospital sector, contribute to this important piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis legislation is one of the architectural pieces for our health system. Unlike the Minister of Health, I do not think it is a problem that it focuses on structures, because our health system does have to have some legislation that governs its structures. But what is a problem is some of the changes in this bill that I think are largely tokenistic and are designed for a political purpose and do not actually take our health system forward. That is why Labour opposes the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat very fact was reflected in the Minister\u2019s own comments tonight, but before going on to that, let\u2019s just start with even the title of the bill. Even the title of the bill is an exercise in symbolism. It\u2019s an exercise of telling M\u0101ori to get to the back of the line because this Government wants to prioritise English and put it first. I didn\u2019t have time, when I was Minister of Health, to waste my breath with such foolish, empty gestures. Yet this Government has decided that these sorts of political tactics are going to be what they put into the bill to determine our health system\u2019s architecture.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also think that the contribution made here about targets is also a political performance more than it is an actual policy change. The first reason I disagree with the putting of targets into this legislation is the Minister in his earlier remarks pointed out that they reflect his Government\u2019s priorities. Well, as a Parliament, we should pass bills that, yes, determine the structure of our health system, but it is not appropriate that a single Government attempts to legislate its priorities. We have this type of legislation, say, in transport, a very similar system, where a Crown entity is responsible for the delivery of a public good or public service, but there we accept that Governments will change and that they will have different priorities. Legislating targets means that other Governments can\u2019t have different decisions without changing legislation about that, and I think that\u2019s inappropriate and it takes long-term certainty away from the health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhy does that matter? I think targets are appropriate. As was pointed out in this House, to the detriment of my colleague Andrew Little, our last Government did have health targets. We had a COVID vaccine immunisation target, for instance, and we used that. We had contact tracing targets that I developed. We are not opposed to targets, but we are opposed to the way they are used in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think there could be much more meaningful targets in this bill. The targets here are outputs, not health outcomes; they\u2019re how fast you move through a process as a patient. That matters, but there are other more important things. I have to recognise that the Government has invested a lot in cancer medicine. They\u2019ve invested a lot, but not chosen to measure cancer medicine survival. Why not? Why wouldn\u2019t you do that? Wouldn\u2019t you want to know that the $600 million budgeted for this is going towards improving people\u2019s cancer survival? It seems to me that these targets are unbalanced, so why should they be legislated for? Codifying them in this way is not appropriate. We issue a Government policy statement on health; that would be the appropriate vehicle for them. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s nothing in this bill to actually help achieve the targets other than performatively saying, \u201CWe\u2019ve put them in a bill\u201D, as, I believe, the Minister actually kind of said. There\u2019s nothing in here to help the nurses look after the patients in the emergency department. Just this day it was reported that the emergency department scheduled to be built in 2027 in Wellington is now not even starting until 2029. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s nothing in this bill that would help you see patients for their first specialist appointments earlier. In fact, we\u2019re still not recruiting enough doctors to the health service, and sending graduate nurses overseas. That is why I think this is an exercise in political performance. It\u2019s the ability to say, \u201CHey, look, we\u2019ve put something into law\u201D, while not actually delivering any extra resources for the health system. And what does this do? Well, it is basically a \u201Cget out of jail free\u201D card for ministerial accountability. \u201COh, well, I\u2019ve done my job; I\u2019ve put it in a law\u201D, the Minister can say. \u201CI have high expectations\u201D\u2014he loves that. He loves the \u201CI have expectations\u201D performance, but not actually giving health entities the resources they actually need to deliver. That would be a very helpful bill for the Minister of Health to bring to this House; a bill that appropriated enough money to hire the nurses, enough money to build the hospitals, and actually started building the hospitals that we need. But that\u2019s not what\u2019s in this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA number of concerns about the introduction of targets were heard from submitters; I didn\u2019t hear much support at all from patient groups for the targets. We heard concerns, instead, about the ability to game the numbers, narrowing care to what\u2019s being measured, ignoring equity and prevention, and locking future Governments in. All of those were very, very valid. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA number of other changes to the architecture of the health system that this bill does\u2014and is, I think, to the detriment of New Zealand\u2019s health system\u2014is it repeals the health sector principles. It removes the obligations of all of the decision makers to understand the Treaty of Waitangi and m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori. It strips power away from iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards. As the Minister said in his remarks, iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards do not have the ability to monitor and they cannot hold their local health services to account any more; they are just relegated to an advisory role. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI ask members on the other side: what are they so scared of? If a local health service\u2014a funded health service\u2014has to turn up to an iwi board and explain what they are doing and why they\u2019re not achieving particular outcomes for M\u0101ori, that\u2019s what accountability to the community is. Why are you scared of that? It is a shift away from partnership in the provision of health services and it sidelines M\u0101ori leadership. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to talk about some of the other changes that are in there. It has taken away some of the provisions for patient voice. It has meant that Public Service principles of independence and neutrality are relegated, and it has also made changes to scrap the audit requirements for the New Zealand Health Plan and changes to how the strategies are treated. Those strategies had extensive involvement from up and down the country with tens of thousands of community submissions on them. You cannot engage the community every day on the health system they want, but, in 2022 and 2023, we did an extensive consultation on them. The Government has decided it doesn\u2019t want to listen to that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll tell you some of the things that stood out in that consultation: the ones that are very memorable to me are women\u2019s health issues. There was a lot of feedback on that. I can tell you that women up and down the country have the experience of not being heard in our health system. They feel like when they complain of pain, they get brushed off, they\u2019re not listened to. There are frequent stories of coming back three or four times before you\u2019re taken seriously. For conditions that end up being endometriosis or ovarian cancer or in some cases surgical mesh problems, these are routine experiences. We captured that through the strategy and directed Health New Zealand to act on it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow the Minister has put all of that work\u2014and it wasn\u2019t just women\u2019s health; it was rural, M\u0101ori, Pacific, people with disabilities as well\u2014to the side and said, \u201CThere are five outputs that I want faster\u201D, and that\u2019s what the whole system boils down to. We are losing a lot when we pass this bill and that is why I cannot commend it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022 data-id=\u002240db4af391d9b77e81abdff168728ad6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002240db4af391d9b77e81abdff168728ad6\u0022\u003EH\u016AHANA LYNDON (Green) (21:26)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te Pika. E t\u016B ana ahau hei m\u0101ngai m\u014D Te R\u014Dp\u016B K\u0101k\u0101riki m\u014D t\u0113nei pire m\u014D te pae ora healthy futures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EGreetings, Mr Speaker. I stand as the spokesperson of the Greens pertaining to this bill, the pae ora (healthy futures) bill\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to really reflect on how \u201CPae Ora\u201D is not just a name, it has a whakapapa, it has a legacy, and it captures the vision of T\u0101 Meihana Durie, who offered the kaupapa of pae ora\u2014healthy futures\u2014to our health system. I wish to acknowledge our Ministers of the time, those who p\u012Bkau-ed the vision of T\u0101 Meihana, my tung\u0101ne Peeni and others within the Labour team that ushered the kaupapa through. Because the name of Te Aka Whai Ora, the name of Te Whatu Ora, and the name of Pae Ora come with a legacy which is based in a holistic worldview of te ao M\u0101ori\u2014and the way with which we had the opportunity, as Aotearoa New Zealand, to adopt a kaupapa that took a holistic approach to the health system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt was only just at the beginning. It was only just at the beginning before this Government came through. And look at it: we\u2019re repealing and we\u2019re repealing and we are repealing. That\u2019s the bitter disappointment that we hear in the community and we heard in submissions in the select committee, because by turning our back on Te Tiriti o Waitangi and on the gift of pae ora\u2014healthy futures\u2014that T\u0101 Meihana offered to us, we are now relegating that vision, that koha, the intention both as claimants, as the kaimahi that contributed to the many strategies\u2014now it is merely something of a footnote in terms of the journey of where we\u2019re going now, because we\u2019re focused on targets, the targets that have been set that are meant to measure the progress of the health system. But these targets are so narrow that we heard very clearly from kaimahi within the system their worry about the gaming of the system and the fact that it\u2019s narrowing the focus away from health equity and about closing those gaps to now focusing on the numbers, focusing on the stats, and focusing on reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo that\u2019s a part of the disappointment that we heard within submissions from community, from kaimahi, from providers, and those who have been brave enough to come forth and bring their voice. Now, there\u2019s a legacy that we\u2019re seeing across this coalition Government: their footprint is huge across Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and it\u2019s like stamping\u2014stamping\u2014all over Te Tiriti. It\u2019s a big takah\u0113. Pae ora\u2014healthy futures\u2014has got a big takah\u0113, a big cross, across Te Tiriti o Waitangi and is providing the space whereby we could have a system underpinned and embedding a Te Tiriti approach in the way in which we would provide healthy futures for all Aotearoa. Because what is good for M\u0101ori is good for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe intention of the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Act was underpinned by a Waitangi Tribunal inquiry. Wai 2575 clearly, explicitly, spoke to the systemic racism that our people have suffered. And the way that we had a Government listen to the findings of that Waitangi Tribunal report\u2014the Waitangi Tribunal report set out a pathway to remedy these issues, and there was an intention to do so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt was an intention to do so, and structurally we saw change come forward. But unfortunately, as we see now, we are focused on targets and we\u2019ve got widgets and we\u2019ve got charts and we\u2019re plotting our way across these targets now, which narrows the focus of the workforce to worry about that instead of the broader lens in terms of the patient, the wh\u0101nau, the community, and the wellbeing of the katoa, the whole person.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s part of the issue that we\u2019re seeing: the erosion of the intention of the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Act, that provided a structure of iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards, localities, local voice coming into localities, then feeding it back up through their plans to iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards, who will then look across the system and then provide advice for that strategic commissioning. \u0100e, it wasn\u2019t the full commissioning\u2014got it\u2014but the strategic commissioning whereby we could see services being delivered in community, not just hospital services but out across community and opening up the pathway for us to work together as a whole system. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s been eroded because now we have iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards who are in the back seat. They were in the driver\u2019s seat alongside Te Aka Whai Ora and Te Whatu Ora, and they were helping to steer the waka, and the HMAC, or that Hauora M\u0101ori Advisory Committee, was there for the Minister, but iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards were there for us all to work alongside local government, our health providers, the whole sector to bring that voice forward and look at the entire system and what does it look like in each rohe. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo it was quite exciting, and as someone coming from the iwi space, I was looking forward to what we could do together. But now we\u2019re really narrow; now we\u2019re very much more narrow. That\u2019s been part of what we heard by submitters who came forth from iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards and said, \u201CYou know, what a missed opportunity. A missed opportunity to \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emahi tahi\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Ework together\u003C/span\u003E] with iwi M\u0101ori, at the t\u0113pu together, driving for better health outcomes for all New Zealanders.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s part of the issue that we see here: the narrowing of the focus of this legislation and the removal of voice, the removal of the voice of M\u0101ori, but also the voice of our kaimahi when we think about the repeal of Te Mauri o Rongo, that New Zealand Health Charter that was developed alongside kaimahi, that was developed alongside organisations and entities, and that put forward the opportunity for us, again\u2014once again, as the health sector\u2014to look at healthy workforce, how safe the workforce is in the sector, in the community, and in the hospitals\u2014all mahi tahi [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Eworking together\u003C/span\u003E]. It was a reflection of a time where there was some cohesion and some \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emahi tahi\u003C/span\u003E. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EMahi tahi\u003C/span\u003E is something that we\u2019re missing right now, and that \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emahi tahi\u003C/span\u003E\u2014we are now in a space where we are protecting our patch. Many of our providers and our kaimahi have said, because of the environment that\u2019s been created in a time of repeal after repeal, that they now just focus on what\u2019s in front of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s the missed opportunity, once again, where we have narrowed the focus of the health system away from that opportunity of collaboration, away from their innovation, and the way with which iwi, community, local government, all of the Crown sector coming together to look at the system as a whole. That is now gone because we have a system which is focused again on targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo Te Mauri o Rongo: gone. You know, what\u2019s that about? Why are we turning our back on the workforce? Why are we not listening to kaimahi who clearly articulated what their needs were and what a health and safety system could look like, so everybody can work to their full and best effect in the health system, supporting patients, wh\u0101nau, and community?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, not forgetting also about the political neutrality of what this legislation will do, and there were submissions that were worried and concerned around the chilling effect\u2014the makariri, that hukapapa\u2014that will come upon the health system and our kaimahi who will have to zip their lips, that will not be able to k\u014Drero, not be able to bring forth the genuine, authentic voice of what\u2019s happening in the sector because they now have to neutralise themselves and they can no longer be the advocates that they need to be if they\u2019re in Te Whatu Ora, if they\u2019re in local community organisations, or even in our hospitals, because they have to be neutral. That\u2019s disappointing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to acknowledge also Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, who attempted a broad range of amendments in the process, and their intention was to try and give effect to Te Tiriti and bring back some of the things that we were losing. Every amendment was grounded in a view of hauora M\u0101ori and trying to uplift Te Tiriti o Waitangi and looking for practical steps in their amendments to provide health equity. But, again, this approach of trying to \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emahi tahi\u003C/span\u003E was rejected by members of the coalition Government. Here on the Opposition, we all worked together and we supported these amendments, but of course it was rejected by those who sit across from us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE te iwi hauora, ng\u0101 kaimahi, ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau, ng\u0101 \u0101piha, ki roto i t\u0113nei p\u016Bnaha hauora nei, rahi rawa atu, p\u016Btea nui, ng\u0101 kaimahi tokomaha, tokomano, kei a koutou tonu te mana, \u0101, koia t\u0113tahi mea nui kua kite nei au kua t\u016Bkino i t\u014D koutou reo. Kua takahi, kua raweke i t\u014D koutou reo i \u0113nei mahi o in\u0101ianei. Koia nei te wero m\u014D m\u0101tou ki te \u0101pitihana ki te kawe haere i ng\u0101 wawata a T\u0101 Meihana Durie, a ng\u0101 kaimahi, a t\u014D t\u0101tou iwi M\u0101ori \u0101 muri ake nei. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ETo the health sector, the staff, the families, the officers who work within the health system, to the myriads, the vast funds, the many workers, the thousands, who still hold the power, and that is an important thing that I have seen, that your voices have been destroyed. They have trampled and violated your voices by their actions. This is our challenge as the Opposition, to convey the aspirations of Sir Mason Durie, of the staff, and the M\u0101ori people, into the future. Thank you\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u00225b768a8e27eed7945a4b3f0e2bcdf049\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225b768a8e27eed7945a4b3f0e2bcdf049\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (21:36)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this bill because this bill is about whether New Zealanders can see a doctor when they need one. It really is incredible because while the Government is working to fix a health system that was left in a mess by the previous lot, Kiwis are waiting too long for GPs and we\u2019re under no illusion about the scale of the job that needs fixing. We cannot be waiting so long for specialists. They cannot be sitting in emergency departments for hours, and that is the reality that\u2019s being faced now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have a quite a bit of respect for the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u2019s contributions in the Health Committee and what she gave in her contribution tonight. But, really, I cannot believe what the Greens are saying. They are more interested in cultural box ticking than clinical outcomes. This is not a repeal bill; it is an amendment bill. It\u2019s in the title. They are focused on how many M\u0101ori words are in legislation and how many times legislation mentions Te Tiriti, but they are not focused on what really matters, which this Government is, and that\u2019s patient outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPatients don\u2019t lie awake at night in their hospital beds worrying about the arrangement of words and what comes first\u2014\u201CPae Ora\u201D or \u201CHealthy Futures\u201D. They worry about whether their mum can get a hip replacement, whether their dad\u2019s heart condition is going to be picked up in time, and whether the care that their children need when seeing a specialist can be done before things get worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is what this bill is about: putting patient outcomes first. New Zealanders deserve better than what the previous Government gave them. They certainly deserve better than the irrelevant filler that the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and the Labour Party jointly signed in their alternate view in their commentary on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill makes sure Health New Zealand has a clear job to deliver effective, timely, and value-for-money healthcare, not ideology, and duplicative and more bureaucracy. It reinforces accountability with measurable targets and ensures infrastructure planning is a core responsibility. It strips out the clutter that has slowed down decision making and buried front-line staff in paperwork instead of caring for people. That is the part that the Opposition can\u2019t stand, because it marks the end of six years where ideology was baked into the health system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe scrapped the M\u0101ori Health Authority because dividing people by race delivered no measurable improvements on outcomes. Now we are continuing the job of restoring the health system that serves everybody. One of the most important changes this bill makes is a renewed focus on healthcare infrastructure, because for too long infrastructure planning has been treated as secondary or even tertiary. This bill makes sure that Health New Zealand has a clear objective to provide and plan for quality, financially sustainable infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Health Committee made changes that define infrastructure clearly in this legislation, including buildings, facilities, and land used for delivering health services. It removes any doubt about what Health New Zealand is responsible for, because if we don\u2019t get infrastructure right in healthcare, nothing else works. We end up in situations, as the Minister spoke about, like Dunedin Hospital, where infrastructure blowouts mean that things cannot get built. This is about making sure the system is prepared for the future and has the physical capacity to deliver care. It\u2019s necessary and it\u2019s long overdue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother important change is clarifying that Health New Zealand is bound by the same political neutrality obligations as the wider Public Service, and the committee made changes to ensure that the new sections align with the Public Service Act. This bill makes it explicit that Health New Zealand as a Crown agent must uphold the Public Service principles under the Public Service Act 2020. Again, there has been a big fuss made about it, but, really, what we are making sure of is that healthcare is focused on patients and not pushing political worldviews.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHealthcare is one of the top concerns for New Zealand and Kiwi families. People are still doing it tough, and turning around a system like this takes time. Kiwis are being left on waiting lists, worried about the future. They don\u2019t want more reports and they don\u2019t want organisational diagrams that go up from the bottom and back down and spread around. What they want is to see a doctor. They want to have their surgery booked. They want treatment. They want a system that works, and that is what ACT is focused on: delivering and fixing what matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs a Government, we have pushed for practical outcomes, we have ensured more access to medicine, we have opened the door to more private sector capacity, and we are backing the healthcare system, because at the end of the day, it is that simple: we need a health system that delivers healthcare. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022 data-id=\u00221f89969bcd7bbef215ef220d268fbc11\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221f89969bcd7bbef215ef220d268fbc11\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First) (21:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First in the second reading of the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill. This is a really vital piece of legislation that puts common sense and clinical need back at the heart of our health system. I\u2019d like to acknowledge the Minister the Hon Simeon Brown. He mentioned that this legislation is to ensure that we have a health system that New Zealanders can trust. I\u2019d like to suggest that the previous Government were obsessed with aimless restructuring, ideological co-governance models that basically prioritised the bureaucracy over the health of New Zealanders. This bill will change that, because it is a fundamental shift towards accountability and delivery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of areas where I think it is really important to note that this bill introduces mandatory health targets for critical areas. Some mention cancer care, emergency department wait times. We believe, in New Zealand First, that what gets measured should actually get done, and it\u2019s important that things get done. Section 36, inserted by clause 22, has been amended to require that the Government policy statement includes mandatory health targets for the publicly funded sector, and that new section 36A, inserted by clause 23, lists the specific areas where targets must be set, including cancer management, immunisation, and also primary care access, which is really important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn her contribution this evening, the Hon Dr Ayesha Verrall said that targets are a political performance. I totally disagree with that. In fact, you tell that to any patient who is waiting endlessly for a hip replacement, for cancer care treatment, for a knee replacement. They do not believe it is political performance; they believe that they should have the timely access to the healthcare that they need. So targets, in fact, are a better approach than the health sector principles and charter. Targets will provide clear direction to Health New Zealand and to the rest of the health sector to make it directly accountable for delivering results in those specific areas of performance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EInfrastructure also is really important in terms of making sure that the permanent infrastructure that is overseen by Health New Zealand actually gets built, actually gets looked after, actually gets upgraded. This bill will also mandate that a permanent infrastructure committee will manage our hospitals, the physical asset, sustainably, and ensure that we get value for money for our taxpayer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is quite important, actually, that the chair of Health New Zealand and the chair of the infrastructure committee can sit on each other\u2019s committees. So that\u2019s a really good line of sight to make sure that Health New Zealand knows what\u2019s happening inside the Infrastructure Committee, and the Infrastructure Committee can actually be there inside Health New Zealand as well. They won\u2019t have voting powers, but they will be able to be accountable, to make sure the infrastructure keeps moving forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo section 4, inserted by clause 6, is amended to insert a specific definition of \u201Cinfrastructure\u201D that includes all of the physical assets, buildings, and the land owned or controlled by Health New Zealand. Section 13, inserted by clause 13, is updated to include an objective for Health New Zealand to provide and plan for cost-effective and financially sustainable infrastructure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Health Committee, well chaired by Sam Uffindell\u2014we received 1,787 submissions. We heard oral evidence from 97 submitters. Some key recommendations also came from those submissions that we received. One of the things that I particularly like about the way the committee works is that we do have members from across the House who can make some valuable input into the committee whenever we\u2019re considering various bills or petitions or whatever, so I\u2019d like to acknowledge all members for their contribution. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOur party has always campaigned on the basis that policy making should be based on need and not race, and I therefore commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e1b7e35ea649ccc743c2bc883e7d3de6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The next call is a split call. Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u002291c71fbc4496dde2a28117c9fffff545\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002291c71fbc4496dde2a28117c9fffff545\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato) (21:46)\u003C/span\u003E:\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te Pika, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u014D Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te p\u014D nei.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EGreetings, Mr Speaker, greetings to all in the House. I stand to voice the position of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori this evening\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI stand on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to oppose the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill. This bill is not a reform; it is detrimental to the overall healthcare system, and specifically to M\u0101ori health. This bill is the last promise of Te Tiriti within our healthcare system. Within this amendment bill, there are clauses that strip away Te Tiriti. Clause 8 deletes the requirement that the Minister, the ministry, and health entities be guided by principles aimed at improving hauora M\u0101ori. Clause 12 removes the requirement that the Health New Zealand board collectively understands Te Tiriti and tikanga M\u0101ori. Clause 6 removes the duty to maintain systems capable of understanding m\u0101tauranga M\u0101ori, kaupapa M\u0101ori services, and cultural safety. Clause 33 strips equity and Te Tiriti expertise from public health advisory structures. That is not tidying up legislation; that is dismantling accountability.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would like to address this bill in a broader context, through the perspective of our experience within the healthcare system and challenging the healthcare system from the M\u0101ori worldview\u2014through history, models, structures, problems, and solutions. In 2019, at T\u016Brangawaewae Marae, my grandfather and grandmother had put decades of work into Wai claims Wai 1315 and Wai 2575. In 2019, while I was still at high school, I, alongside my kura, Te Wharekura o R\u0101kaumanga, was able to present these Wai claims to the Waitangi Tribunal. It\u2019s not until you come to places where you work that you realise the sacrifice and the hard work that your elders do for you. So we\u2019ve had a lot of experience through our wh\u0101nau in the healthcare system. We\u2019re changing it to a lifestyle. My nan\u2014my grandmother\u2014and Nana Tutata were the first ever M\u0101ori community health workers, in 1983, at Waahi Paa Marae.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Puea\u2014that came from the vision of Te Puea H\u0113rangi, the M\u0101ori princess, with her work during the influenza pandemic at the time and her vision of establishing a M\u0101ori hospital. Now, these are all structures and models that stem from the vision of Te Aka Whai Ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe late king, Kiingi Tuheitia, and his stance in the COVID response\u2014these were all responses to the invasion of Governor Grey in Waikato. These are all linked to this bill, because it is the overall perspective of how M\u0101ori health works in a communal way rather than a privatisation way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, Governor Grey said, at the time, that he had never seen such fertile, healthy land or such healthy children other than here in the Waikato. Now, how do we get from healthiest in the world to leading world statistics for poor health and poor land?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, when we look at the overall health structures within the legislation of M\u0101ori health, we look at the overall structure of the M\u0101ori Health Authority, being the whare. Now, that was stripped away from this coalition Government in the first 100 days. Now, when we look at the partnership and connection through iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards\u2014that was stripped away. When we look at the solutions, which was the Pae Ora legislation at the time, now changed to \u201CHealthy Futures\u201D, that was the long work of models and structures pioneered by M\u0101ui P\u014Dmare, Sir Mason Durie, and Tureiti Moxon. And when we look at the foundations of Te Tiriti through law and the all-round workforce of the understaffed healthcare workforce and understaffed resource, we then see the daily realities of M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori going to the local GP, the local emergency services, who are at least waiting three weeks to be seen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, these are all around the structure of the M\u0101ori Health Authority partnerships of connections through the iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards, solutions and models of Te Pae Ora legislation, also addressing inequities through the world-leading smokefree legislation and mental health legislation and foundations of stripping Te Tiriti. The bigger picture here is this is taking away our way of communal and collective responses to health and replacing it with the individualistic privatisation of our healthcare. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENearly a\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289508ebdad9b01d49d0dcbae1ce1b557\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec83aa5f6f3b88d0ee9e8a15cc53f4a1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec83aa5f6f3b88d0ee9e8a15cc53f4a1\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green) (21:52)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKia ora e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E I rise this evening to tautoko the wise words of my parliamentary colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon, who has been leading the Green\u2019s charge in opposition to this bill, and, of course, to voice my own thoughts in opposition to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill will do nothing but result in poorer outcomes for M\u0101ori health specifically and for the health sector in general. Not satisfied enough with the outright removal of the M\u0101ori Health Authority, now this Government seeks to actively dismantle mechanisms designed and put in place to improve M\u0101ori health outcomes. This bill will water down the role of iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards by removing Health New Zealand\u2019s requirement to work directly with them. It seeks to strip out the legal requirement it has for a dedicated hauora M\u0101ori strategy and to remove the safeguard that requires health boards to have expertise in Te Tiriti o Waitangi. These changes will, effectively, weaken M\u0101ori equity commitments, making them harder to measure and, therefore, enforce. If passed, this bill will undermine M\u0101ori leadership and will move the focus away from prevention and long-term wellbeing and closer to towards short-term targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Act, as it stands, embeds the principle of Te Tiriti o Waitangi and was developed following the findings of the Waitangi Tribunal\u2019s Health Services and Outcomes Inquiry Wai 2575. It was enshrined in legislation to recognise the systematic inequities and to ensure the prioritisation of resources where it was needed most. There is no logic and no rationale to rush through these changes to existing legislation, that will do nothing but make things worse. The amendments to the Pae Ora (Healthy Futures) Act will weaken the role of M\u0101ori and decisions on hauora health services to service their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe amendments to clarify that Te Whatu Ora are to engage in contract services to a private health sector is not the direction health should be going in in Aotearoa. Aotearoa needs a dual publicly owned health system where k\u0101wanatanga responsible for upholding a public, free, and universal health system, including free dental care, and tino rangatiratanga, sphere with M\u0101ori having full determination and ownership for hauora services to meet the needs of their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Waitangi Tribunal Inquiry Wai 2575 Health Services and Outcomes Inquiry found consistent failures of the Crown to uphold Te Tiriti o Waitangi and to address M\u0101ori health inequities. This issue is urgent and requires specific interventions. The health services led by M\u0101ori initiatives have been and continue to be successful. The changes to the Pae Ora Act go against implementing the recommendations from the inquiry and undo progress towards meeting them. Without the health sector principles and dedicated focus on equity, Te Whatu Ora will not fulfil obligations to M\u0101ori outlined in Te Tiriti.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe amendments to the Pae Ora Act will undermine the requirement for Te Whatu Ora to procure these services as they remove the statutory requirements to address health inequities between M\u0101ori and non-M\u0101ori. The amendments also remove the requirement for all employees at Te Whatu Ora to be aware of their responsibilities under Te Tiriti and to be aware of the importance of culturally safe care. The removal of the focus and target on equity through the health sector principles will also impact Pasifika, takat\u0101pui, and whaikaha communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis legislation will lead to breaches of Te Tiriti o Waitangi as it removes the shift towards tino rangatiratanga over health services by weakening the role of iwi-M\u0101ori partnership boards by an active decision-making on service provisions for their communities. Removing requirements for knowledge of tikanga M\u0101ori and Te Tiriti on the Te Whatu Ora board undermines the shift towards a partnership approach to health between Crown and M\u0101ori. This contravenes article 2. If the removal of the requirement for m\u0101tauranga and knowledge of Te Tiriti or health equity and the culturally safe care are\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297f5a81cc93d22c596f3dfb02c18aa0b\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022b9826f98f77b0a693e1162ab827e35e4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b9826f98f77b0a693e1162ab827e35e4\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga) (21:57)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much. Look, this bill is a vast improvement. It significantly strengthens the health system and puts the focus where it should be: on the patients. It gives Health New Zealand a much clearer purpose: to make sure patients get effective and timely healthcare. Health targets are being brought back and written into law. No more vague aspirations; clear, identifiable and measurable targets for our health system. Governance is getting a serious update.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill clears out some of the ideology within the current law. There are 21 so-called principles that the health system is supposed to be guided by. We are making sure they are focused on the targets, focused on the patient. The patient doesn\u2019t feature once in the health charter. We are making sure that our health system is focused directly at the patient so that all New Zealanders, no matter who you are or where you\u2019re from, can get timely and efficient healthcare. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226b69d0008165fdb99b2d5ddce1957699\u0022\u003EEnglish Language Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a05b9da223d7b5f5aef0473179a34e26\u0022\u003ERecording of Party Position\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u00226597c9234d66bbfe00d7ac04ec77ddbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226597c9234d66bbfe00d7ac04ec77ddbb\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green) (21:58)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. Thank you, Madam Speaker. I would like it recorded in the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E that the Green Party would have voted 15 against the first reading of the English Language Bill if a party vote had been held.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229da9c0332c5eb9346338002d1c2f8646\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It will be recorded in the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E. Thank you. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260303970e52eca7a6ba8650000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.58 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"