"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ef7244a11b8516de57456cffada8e36\u0022\u003EThursday, 5 March 2026\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EThe Speaker\u003C/span\u003E took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f9792057974a0fd68504fdbeba09db2b\u0022\u003EStart of Sitting Day\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db7e6325f3da76c119f51e77bb3fce12\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00229a3491e67e6d9d4b62c2f2b9960b5c75\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a3491e67e6d9d4b62c2f2b9960b5c75\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:00)\u003C/span\u003E: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and the peace of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002224cf0aad15f5e089f9553f12ca9660ae\u0022\u003EBusiness of the House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d0c0b7e9fa9e037be91f6ac55fb29ee\u0022\u003EBusiness Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022a109bb1e6297fd78660105f438d6a184\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a109bb1e6297fd78660105f438d6a184\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Deputy Leader of the House) (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: Next week, we will be continuing to progress business that is on the Order Paper. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop enters Chamber\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a83807d2248960c4f8216f3814a83b3\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: I can do that again if you want, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022edce31753e7697b8340a0b73d2ddb9a5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edce31753e7697b8340a0b73d2ddb9a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: I just would note that there is a particularly large media scrum outside and that some of the media, clearly, are not playing ball with regards to making sure that members get to the House. It\u2019s going to be something that I will speak to the gallery about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223125536173d1d954aa50f8b7ee77116e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m happy for you to have another go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298d70d23044c16c7eefc2d2907726e3a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a minute. The Opposition would like to hear more from the Government about its intentions\u2014you\u2019re indicating that?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u00224c7c6b97bb13ca86bac1ab148c84e57a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c7c6b97bb13ca86bac1ab148c84e57a\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: If they\u2019d be so kind, I\u2019d be delighted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed87df85d0c0b509b09fbf073d5515ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed87df85d0c0b509b09fbf073d5515ad\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Deputy Leader of the House) (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: Next week, the House will consider further stages of the Public Finance Amendment Bill, the Legislation Amendment Bill, and the Public Service Amendment Bill. The hours of Tuesday will be extended into Wednesday morning for Government business. On Wednesday, the general debate will be replaced by a debate on the Finance and Expenditure Committee\u2019s report on the Treasury\u2019s Long-term Fiscal Statement and will be followed by members\u2019 business.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022deacf62fbbdfa8a82edb630e75cc5ea8\u0022\u003EPresentation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224891dd7fff0db2970dc3ccc07b5e96a7\u0022\u003EPetitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00222c25c40571257c9e5573d28d966a62ff\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222c25c40571257c9e5573d28d966a62ff\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Two petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e757911158d59d5355f47584ecebdc61\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:02): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Daniel Walker requesting that the House urge the Government to fully staff and resource Nelson Hospital, to rebuild Nelson Hospital, and to publicly release all independent and internal reports into care at Nelson Hospital\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Donna Dabinett requesting that the House ban social media for all convicted rapists released early from prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223db700dfbac64edea50d907673dbf826\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d7731525880f6c1eb965f793d4cca7db\u0022\u003EPapers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002269524676eb441c7616c79cb0f0408dab\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269524676eb441c7616c79cb0f0408dab\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Ministers have delivered two papers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240fc1d91c5bed26a65aa93ccdb185239\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:02): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual reports of the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003EGovernment Communications Security Bureau\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Security Intelligence Service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a63d50e877b9e1a6cb1f8bacfcf525ba\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those papers are published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266cfc6de2de2c4f42191b811d4f7f969\u0022\u003ESelect Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1c3182b83f2b114ad177d1512dfc0e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1c3182b83f2b114ad177d1512dfc0e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Fifteen select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e3c0978ff84d6d17b6a8e0b4cfcf779\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:03): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Education and Workforce Committee on the inquiry into the harm young New Zealanders encounter online, and the roles that Government, business, and society should play in addressing those harms\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of Kiwi Group Capital Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of New Zealand Green Investment Finance Ltd and the Office of the Controller and Auditor-General\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of Government Superannuation Fund Authority\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003E2024-25 annual review of Reserve Bank of New Zealand\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Efinancial statements of the Government of New Zealand for the year ended 30\u00A0June 2025\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Health Committee on the 2024-25 annual review of the Pharmaceutical Management Agency\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereport of the Intelligence and Security Committee on the 2024-25 annual reviews of the Government Communications Security Bureau and NZ Security Intelligence Service\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Social Services and Community Committee on the 2024-25 annual reviews of:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ESport and Recreation New Zealand \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003ET\u0101maki Redevelopment Company Ltd\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe Ministry for Ethnic Communities\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe Ministry for Pacific Peoples\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe Ministry for Women\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe arts, culture, and heritage sector \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ethe broadcasting sector.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022827a61fcc144f07586f490e65564043d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report of the Education and Workforce Committee and the report of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the financial statements of the Government of New Zealand for the year ended 30 June 2025 are set down for consideration.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223878483d17e8594b1222746426b7703b\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a394ef66c25781384d5ce4a0e1638d7b\u0022\u003EAppropriation (2024/25 Confirmation and Validation) Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e92791d4ac249594038048ac48a92bf\u0022\u003EIntroduction\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022954fe3998490fd6012726cba80bffe79\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022954fe3998490fd6012726cba80bffe79\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:04)\u003C/span\u003E: The Clerk has been informed of the introduction of a bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022350f92a075f344807564e42f19af81ce\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:04): \u003C/span\u003EAppropriation (2024/25 Confirmation and Validation) Bill, introduction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af4f8ab93118df68ed990aad9ea67554\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The bill is set down for first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b3204e9530faeebff2990dc1ff106599\u0022\u003EOral Questions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b071b0f75b806271d5c7450b90d08712\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a9d566278d3e24e0f5999bda3f3abe32\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u002280f431ffd610cbc41643ebd3531f6b73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002280f431ffd610cbc41643ebd3531f6b73\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National) (14:04)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen on the economic impact of conflict in the Middle East?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022b8712b99c33cd75c95b4718f8aec56bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b8712b99c33cd75c95b4718f8aec56bb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:04)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve seen reports of overnight activity in the financial markets. Oil was trading at around US$81 a barrel this morning; little changed from yesterday\u2019s close, but still up around 14\u00A0percent from a week ago. US and European equities actually rose in overnight trading, although Asian stock markets were down. The New Zealand dollar is up slightly against the US dollar, and the trade-weighted index rose 0.6\u00A0percent overnight. It appears that risk sentiment in the markets is relatively stable, at least for the time being.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022145c939740849c2e2840280fcbc346fc\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen any reports of economic impacts under different scenarios?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002240c5e37d0f7b9568cd37f289ff0154b4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019ve seen some \u201Cwhat if\u201D analyses from different commentators. Those are interesting but, as I said, markets seem relatively calm at the moment and are not rushing to worst case scenarios. That sentiment may be influenced by comments from the US administration that it is considering measures to support oil flows, including shipping insurance and naval escorts for tankers. It could also be that markets are waiting to see how the conflict unfolds. As I\u2019ve said previously, there is likely to be an impact on the New Zealand economy, but that will depend on the scale and duration of any disruption, and how quickly things will get back to normal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dddb892dcac63125baa520cde158f961\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: When will any impacts of the Middle East conflict be reflected in the forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f3b6df65313012d5a092563a916610b\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Treasury\u2019s next set of economic and fiscal forecasts will be released on 28 May, alongside this year\u2019s Budget. These forecasts will reflect information available before the forecasts are closed off in April. That includes, of course, any impacts of the conflict. The Reserve Bank\u2019s next set of economic forecasts will be in its Monetary Policy Statement on 27 May. However, the Reserve Bank may choose to comment on global events in the April monetary policy review.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022af99dc338491a94982499e0e47c22041\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: What is the starting point for the next set of forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250c46339837a423673ac379fa0750abc\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: A lot of factors are incorporated in the forecasts. One of those is how the Crown accounts have been tracking in the year to date. The accounts for the first seven months were released this morning and they show that key fiscal indicators are tracking stronger than forecast in the half-year update. Members will be interested to hear that the operating balance before gains and losses, excluding ACC revenue and expenses (OBEGALx) deficit was $1.9 billion lower at the end of January than was previously forecast. Net core Crown debt was lower than forecast, and core Crown expenses were lower than forecast. While there\u2019s a lot of water to go under the bridge in this financial year, it\u2019s good to see the accounts looking better than previously expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002213edce399061f3cf20444108be025fa8\u0022\u003EEnergy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d59256dc4388c79bf9988ecca6decf8c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5c5e6fe9dafe5bb3db8ea87f9e32a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5c5e6fe9dafe5bb3db8ea87f9e32a2\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram) (14:07)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Energy\u003C/span\u003E: What specific gas price sensitivity analysis did MBIE and Concept Consulting carry out for the LNG terminal decision, if any?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u0022dadd92e44dd126043592bfd7e0c002a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dadd92e44dd126043592bfd7e0c002a6\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy) (14:07)\u003C/span\u003E: The modelling by Concept Consulting included a number of scenarios, including variations in the liquefied natural gas price (LNG) to assess the impact on electricity prices. The modelling showed that the key benefit of LNG is to provide the market with certainty to access fuel during a dry year. That will reduce the risk premium and provide downward pressure on electricity prices. The most important thing to consider is the long-run price of LNG, and that is why we expect to see a reduction in consumer bills by at least $50 per household.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022073e055513642890a3beb9576037d07c\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What LNG price path in New Zealand dollars per gigajoule underpins his claims that New Zealanders will save money?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269885a16b84a39865cf8efad869ab903\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: As I outlined in my answer to the primary question, Concept Consulting included a number of scenarios including variations in LNG price. For the member\u2019s interest, when one looks at the LNG price in terms of what it is currently trading at, it is somewhat and closely aligned to the 10-year average.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227503a0b11d743cdfa023a1df9af8f885\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealanders have confidence in his claims when the regulatory impact statement and cost recovery analysis record a constrained analysis of options, constrained time frames, no completed business case, and no independent stage gate review?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db8b7e057d9f0e73fb29a7eaacce9ba2\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Kiwis can be confident because LNG makes New Zealand more resilient. Surprisingly enough, having more options than less options gives you greater resilience, and greater resilience means less volatility. For those at home, if you have less volatility, you see less power prices and downward pressure on power prices. On this side of the House, we understand energy and that\u2019s why we are putting more options on the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226553b0fc1a6d847f0ddb72594d7dd5a9\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: If he agrees with the Prime Minister that LNG prices go up and down, why did he lock New Zealanders into this volatility without first demanding a genuinely comprehensive analysis of LNG price and contract risks?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225732a4e58d97b754b948a8010a035747\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: The member has just asked a question in terms of me locking New Zealanders into a scenario. The counterfactual is that in the context of having no gas, it means that we currently do not have enough gas to fuel our existing power plants. The reason why we don\u2019t have enough gas today is the previous Government banned oil and gas, and that\u2019s why our energy prices are high. Thank you, Labour. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da613964f0dc7f80e162b84709d1762a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just\u2014all right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b39cdcda7cf3662c19e99f1c965072b6\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Has he, in light of this week\u2019s price spikes, sought updated advice on whether scaling up domestic solutions like more renewables and demand-side measures could provide the same dry-year security, with less exposure to global volatile prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022805b9c6914aebb1ace42acdc4cdce04f\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: As I have outlined in answers to questions already in this House, when the assessment was undertaken by this Government in order to select the LNG scenario, a number of options were considered; however, none of the other options were able to deliver the solution to the problem which this country faces, which is we do not have enough gas to make electricity in a dry year. None of the other solutions will meet that requirement in terms of cost or time. We face an acute problem, because in 2024, we had prices exceeding $800 because we did not have the fuel. It is incumbent upon the Government to ensure that we do have fuel to make electricity in a dry year, and that is what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4c04d1a666e4ad072b1c9a0bb16394\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I asked the Minister a very direct question about whether he\u2019d sought updated advice this week in light of events. I\u2019m still not sure whether or not he has sought that updated advice from the answer he gave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d0742c33f18dc20ad12c9f7d0520fc5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I took it from the answer that he said that they had considered a range of things, none of them came up to scratch from their perspective, and nothing has changed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f42c782a38a5380fc09b78e353d4e5f7\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Minister make available any price sensitivity analysis undertaken by the Ministry of Business, Innovation and Employment (MBIE) when the refinery was closed down under the honourable Woods\u2019 leadership?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b89b5ae399f43c3c5d243184c99c464e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s too wide of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002280c266b59adefad8f3a5a83ae2fd3ba1\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224783a122a522316bba0cf7fdcb61c703\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Points of order are heard in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022447d65b8850d159a551a7433245a1fde\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Price sensitivity analysis, MBIE\u2014underlying that is fuel security. The closure of the refinery is obviously a blow, arguably, to fuel security. How can that possibly be out of line?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221959fafe90092e2d8fb1d1ef683274a9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, because it wasn\u2019t a Government action would be one reason. But I\u2019ll allow the Minister to make a comment to move us on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a5577d648bf8dc22c1fc2becba86cff4\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: It would be fair to say\u2014and I think what the member is also referring to is\u2014that when a Government makes a policy decision in order to reduce options within a country, it creates volatility and puts upward pressure on price. What we saw from the last Government\u2019s policy decision to shut the oil refinery, to ban oil and gas, is it reduced New Zealand\u2019s energy independence, reduced its energy resilience, and as a result, this Government is having to tidy up their mess.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227a582bd6a6f25010c83014ecb44c05c\u0022\u003EChildren\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002296188e9e43b71a6189cb672cfee709ee\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d1f58e159cb779057c2dba445ba3b2ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d1f58e159cb779057c2dba445ba3b2ad\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (14:13)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Children\u003C/span\u003E: Was she aware of the reported increase in kids in State care with complex needs and disabilities being housed in motels, sometimes with untrained staff, before the Aroturuki Tamariki Experiences of Care in Aotearoa 2024/25 report; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022 data-id=\u0022032fff0ffd0e6d58983fbd305c35070c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022032fff0ffd0e6d58983fbd305c35070c\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR (Minister for Children) (14:14)\u003C/span\u003E: I have asked Oranga Tamariki about the serious allegation in the member\u2019s question of kids being housed in motels with untrained staff, and they\u2019ve been unable to identify what the member is referring to. If the member has evidence of this occurring, I would strongly encourage her to provide this information so it can be addressed and we can make sure that kids are safe, rather than waiting to raise it in the House. To the broader question, yes, I am aware that motels are being used as an emergency option, as a last resort where no other safe option is available. This practice even pre-dates Oranga Tamariki as an organisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002232c13d10439187a02923c15275fd8ff4\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Has she seen the report released yesterday, and has she read it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227546e0c591560a51b4b4a2fd936aa277\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I have read the Independent Children\u2019s Monitor (ICM) report very closely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221149deb712f82477a0eb2e587f8d3bf\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that it is \u201Cunacceptable\u201D that children in care are staying in motels; and, if so, how does she justify the over 25 percent increase that has taken place under her watch in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f49100f696528b44f48fb13b7dacdf\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: No one wants to see kids in motels or young people in motels, but the reality is that sometimes it\u2019s more important to make sure their safety and wellbeing comes first. There are many reasons why a young person may be placed in a motel. The most common length of stay in a motel is one night, and most children and young people stay fewer than three nights. Sometimes, it is a case of not wanting to remove them from their community or from their family supports while we make sure we can find a safe place for them to stay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226816abbbd98d6e10bf9fabe90e5163ba\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that 246 tamariki and rangatahi in care spending over 4,000 nights in motels, with the longest stay being nearly a year, is inconsistent with motels being used as a last resort?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6972ab159d6be3072938b6ffce8befc\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: As I said, the most common length of stay in a motel is one night, and most children and young people stay for three nights or fewer. Sometimes, this is unavoidable. In an emergency situation where there is no placement available and we don\u2019t want to remove that young person from their community or their supports, this is a better option. They still also need to go to school and have a routine. Removing them from their communities is not a better option.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccb106c8105fe86ce0304693f0fbbb3d\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: What does she say to the caregiver who stated, \u201CWe got told about her disability but got limited information around how to work with her needs. It was really rushed, especially not knowing anything or given any information\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022339efe3ce4d2bfe7ab9642ab6848468f\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I think that, because the first question was incorrect, I would have to take away and verify what that member is saying before I can answer it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e54659c4cbe8853099c3cdc2d1413a5\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: How does placing tamariki with complex needs in the care of untrained caregivers and insufficiently trained caregivers, like security guards, fit with the key priorities she has set, including ensuring the safety of children and young people and supporting caregivers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286b4e99b66367b82322b55366e4ec3c7\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I have read the ICM report very closely, and there is no mention in that report of untrained staff being used to look after children in motels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221455c40d3f67bfb3327a931e3c5d178c\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: How would the Minister advise members of the public or Parliament to raise serious concerns about children\u2019s welfare with Oranga Tamariki?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e13c0cfff1694ee6966ced2df467878f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215c5ba8bad4b328343da29aa4e8a82ef\u0022\u003EHon KAREN CHHOUR\u003C/span\u003E: There are many ways that those concerns can be raised. They can be raised with Oranga Tamariki themselves. A letter could be sent to my office so that I can follow up. Even a letter to be sent to speak about the situation would be helpful, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002277c3ae3bb7dd63fbc0361a1401d0aa03\u0022\u003EMedia and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ba9b1de227aea17c7011c54528486dcb\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022 data-id=\u002239d33ae6179410cff4a2d268ae1b4bb9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002239d33ae6179410cff4a2d268ae1b4bb9\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East) (14:18)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Media and Communications\u003C/span\u003E: On what dates has he, or any person acting on his behalf, discussed TVNZ news coverage with any member of the TVNZ Board (including the Chair of TVNZ, Andrew Barclay) or the chief executive of TVNZ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022 data-id=\u002201fcf77170241ff5fe7205fab91fd3d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002201fcf77170241ff5fe7205fab91fd3d2\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH (Minister for Media and Communications) (14:19)\u003C/span\u003E: On Sunday, 1 March, I received a text message from the chair of TVNZ asking for a call. We spoke about a range of matters including TVNZ financials and board appointments, and he observed, as I recall, that TVNZ had been in the news that week over a law and order story and that he was taking an interest in it in the context of the board\u2019s interests in improving trust in TVNZ. I didn\u2019t engage further in the discussion on that matter. Also, on Tuesday evening, I spoke at the 60th anniversary of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ECountry Calendar\u003C/span\u003E, hosted by TVNZ, and spoke with three board members and the chief executive. To the best of my knowledge, TVNZ news coverage did not come up in those conversations. The primary point of discussion was the history of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ECountry Calendar\u003C/span\u003E. Yesterday, I spoke to the chair, informing him that I had been questioned about our phone call on the way out of the House, as a courtesy, and I rang him again at 6.30 yesterday evening, after the coverage over the afternoon, to check on his welfare, as he is a new chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef961104fcd96775dadf93169f62338f\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he sought an assurance from TVNZ chair Andrew Barclay in any of those conversations that he hasn\u2019t discussed or directed the Minister\u2019s or his ministerial colleagues\u2019 concerns around TVNZ coverage of crime numbers on 26\u00A0February 2026 with any staff member of TVNZ, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6187cb7b36c8b89fdaea61f684a5e9d\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, can I ask him to repeat that? It had so many legs, I couldn\u2019t understand it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc7a9c06fd14a28522c5092832dd80fe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thank you\u2014I would like to hear that myself one more time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002297d6edbd497392a93faafb907f359552\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has he sought an assurance from TVNZ chair Andrew Barclay that he hasn\u2019t discussed or directed the Minister\u2019s or his ministerial colleagues\u2019 concerns around TVNZ coverage of crime numbers on 26 February 2026 with any staff member of TVNZ, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022024ca5efc3f5bb0f85935471b67ea8a0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I haven\u2019t sought that assurance directly. What is my expectation of the board? The primary Government interest in TVNZ is, one, that it maintains its financial stability; two, that it\u2019s growing its audiences and producing great quality local content; and the third thing that has been raised in my letter of expectation is building or improving levels of trust. I expect the board to have an interest in all of those topics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223775c31aaea54112d2f5b28808be4a48\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: No more woke!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223c072d8edf864f722f110121b4d2705a\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EStick to kids\u2019 TV.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3acb8dbb8f03500a72838f48751cbec\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e8063cf325073e30ebfaf5a3fe95ee02\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: This is a serious issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228d1b5478c756e072ea8c480fb677435f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. When someone stands up to start asking a question, it\u2019s a good idea for everyone else to be quiet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221bcdc289ccd45573169d25ae933a5149\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he then guaranteeing to the New Zealand public that the TVNZ chair, Andrew Barclay, has not sought to influence editorial discussions at TVNZ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d5ab8ab14736be761a35115b22f447b4\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I wouldn\u2019t expect the board to be interfering in editorial decisions at TVNZ. I would expect the board to have an interest in the broader issue of improving trust, as I do with the Radio New Zealand board, and that\u2019s absolutely appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276e3f1e9d7d498a17543306ed97c79ae\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he have regular scheduled phone calls with the chair of the TVNZ board, Andrew Barclay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f7036b5a454d37310a494c7f60ca7652\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t. I meet the board formally every quarter, but I\u2019m in the habit, quite often, of speaking with chairs of entities that I\u2019m responsible for, at all hours. That member may not be aware, but being a Minister is a busy role, and we talk to people at all hours on all sorts of topics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff2242aff585cfd37a4630e4e3e4f5dc\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What notes or record of the phone call on Sunday, 1 March did the Minister make?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241cfcc97823bf96f22669202f48ee59b\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: None.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be480c04bdf956b6243cb98047d20d4b\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What did the Minister say when the subject of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News\u003C/span\u003E coverage of crime numbers was raised by TVNZ chair Andrew Barclay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed325954a403b8cb2eaeb6ff68488d9c\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: As I said in answer to the first one, I didn\u2019t engage further in the discussion on that matter. I may possibly have grunted, but I\u2019m not sure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c15acc3d18de987cd1f0cffb71f45cd7\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is it appropriate for a Minister to complain about TVNZ news coverage in a public forum?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221d810d6045c29f3da7a12ba1e0eaa441\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m afraid that does happen from time to time, and it seems to me it\u2019s quite possible that the previous Labour Government Ministers may have done that from time to time as well. But I\u2019ve often made the observation that a politician complaining about the media is like a farmer complaining about the weather: you may be right, but it makes no difference, and so you\u2019ve got to figure out how to succeed in any respect. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e811168642575a95c3f4efa8f59c04b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll have everyone listening to the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a3b13d1da677b9049bbfc17bcf2c534\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What, if anything, has the Minister done about other Ministers in Government complaining about news coverage at TVNZ?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e2ac3102f80e3c1d76a570babe334dd0\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, my concern is that I might find that I have no time left to do anything else if I was bothering myself. It is unfortunately something that happens from time to time. Now, whether that\u2019s fair or not is inappropriate. But what I am clear about is the legislative requirement that no Minister, including myself, should seek to direct TVNZ in relation to their coverage of news items, and we certainly haven\u2019t done that. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934deda5d07c413bbaf7deabd14c2d59\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Once again, we\u2019re listening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002247f38eda99edf03e1dfa9b71b27a45d4\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Did Minister Mark Mitchell, or anyone on his behalf, raise \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News\u003C/span\u003E coverage of 26 February 2026 on rising gang numbers with him or any member of his office, and if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf884dcbab12d40672feeda64a8ac5cd\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, I think he did raise it with me. We were together and we weren\u2019t happy with the coverage, but that happens on a regular basis. We\u2019re quite often not happy with particular coverage, but that\u2019s neither here nor there. Sometimes we\u2019re right; sometimes we\u2019re wrong. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002229de7e1d476f8dc40b1209c1c01690b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just\u2014once again\u2014that\u2019s the fourth warning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251d0e91cc9a55f2311da09f0429ebafd\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Did the Prime Minister or his office raise \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News\u003C/span\u003E coverage of 26 February 2026 concerning rising gang numbers with him or any member of his office, and if so, when?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d11846a6709db5958e6c77f9d0d55a\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I\u2019m in constant conversation with the Prime Minister and he did grumble about that story. What we grumbled about was the fact that on the day that we had announced that there were 49,000 fewer victims of crime in this country, there was a story that ignored that entirely and talked about something else. We weren\u2019t happy about it\u2014that\u2019s life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224df04ec74dcda4521d6fd64a7e0ede31\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: When did he inform the Prime Minister or the Prime Minister\u2019s office of his discussion with Andrew Barclay on Sunday, 1 March?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a8556da6dbf09491329f28bbc574fd40\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t recall informing him at all. That probably came up after it came up in the public setting. I didn\u2019t think it was a matter that I needed to bother the Prime Minister with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d8ec142fc59582bbec891ebaeb59f8b\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has the Minister, or those acting on his behalf, at all times complied with the non-interference and editorial content of TVNZ as required by law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220fbf81f762178d3a72fce4b4170a1506\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022222f8ab31f2c8a7f3e7d68f5b93418a0\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Would it be appropriate for the chair of TVNZ to raise the issue of \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News \u003C/span\u003Emedia coverage with the Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222212ce20937cc88db13d2e13529ad114\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t think it would be appropriate for the chair to interfere with decisions that TVNZ made about their coverage. In terms of mentioning it to me in the context of a board focusing on improving levels of trust and the issue that\u2019s been raised, I don\u2019t have a particularly strong view. He probably shouldn\u2019t have, but it\u2019s certainly not a major issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230ef52dea3aa7d9967dede9c5a44efee\u0022\u003EReuben Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he still have confidence in the man he appointed as chair of TVNZ, Andrew Barclay, after he discussed \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News\u003C/span\u003E editorial coverage with the Minister, contrary to the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002291c0e777ce3d4711ace36a15c7e22ffe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f10fa034d8dd9d9277893dd3d6f78cf8\u0022\u003EHon PAUL GOLDSMITH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I do have confidence in the chair. I think he\u2019s doing a great job. As I said, the Government\u2019s primary interest in TVNZ members of the board is that the board is focused on the financial sustainability of TVNZ; secondly, that it\u2019s growing its audiences; thirdly, that it\u2019s producing great local content; and, fourthly, that it continues to work on improving overall levels of trust. Now, as everybody\u2019s conscious of all around the world, particularly since COVID, there have been drops in trust in media generally, and that\u2019s an issue. We would expect the board to be focused on the overall effort to improve those levels of trust.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c39ea5355950c2c217025340d7e57ebc\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b96320391675509ce7cba0e02410d6ec\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, the Hon\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a67b9c5e751da0a577ceb05726c030b6\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acf56537d632c2d26e47ce63f25d88e6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait till I finish. Point of order, the Hon Shane Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209cb57e354ad4d11cfb45f3177e741f1\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Of that last question, Standing Order 390 makes it perfectly clear inferences or allegations of wrongdoing based on a faulty interpretation of law\u2014that\u2019s not a question fit for this House, certainly when he\u2019s seeking to demean a steadfast, proud New Zealander who happens to be the chair of that board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022935cc5dbf056274e4bfc123cc976b54f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd6736ccdad242513a7e393fdc24b4ea\u0022\u003ETourism and Hospitality\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df3b87efd6e0c41715a3162940f8e9e3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u002272dccb1979a50d2742c862dcdc98fea8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002272dccb1979a50d2742c862dcdc98fea8\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (14:30)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Tourism and Hospitality\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen on tourism\u2019s contribution to the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u00224bdd472ef7dd951759998da8f1cb7ab5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bdd472ef7dd951759998da8f1cb7ab5\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Tourism and Hospitality) (14:30)\u003C/span\u003E: Data released this week shows New Zealand\u2019s tourism sector continues to grow, driving billions of dollars into our economy. The tourism satellite account shows total tourism expenditure in New Zealand is at $46.6\u00A0billion for the year ending March 2025. This is an increase of $1.5\u00A0billion, or 3.3 percent, compared to March 2024. This data also shows that one in nine people is now employed in the tourism and hospitality industry, with total tourism employment increasing to over 325,000 people. These results highlight exactly why tourism is a key part of our Government\u2019s plan to fix the basics and build the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c9209ae0ebcdfb8bd7addcf0d60506a\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What other reports has she seen on international tourism into New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222d7a1fc215379bbc4de81e64d8a8ca79\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: The latest international visitor survey, which was released this week, shows international visitors returning to New Zealand in droves, with visitor spend on the up. This data shows international tourism contributed $12.5\u00A0billion to New Zealand\u2019s economy for the year ending December 2025, up 3 percent on the previous year. These results highlight why the work we are doing to boost our tourism and hospitality sector is so important. More international visitors means more customers for our businesses, which means more jobs are being created across our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7d290cdfd663c074a672d4cc452ed09\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: How does more international visitors support economic growth?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d120cd63f34141f9a23658547088b717\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: As the country\u2019s second-highest export earner, tourism and hospitality has a key role in New Zealand\u2019s economic growth. Our overall median spend per visitor is up 3 percent, at $2,248, and the median daily spend is up 8 percent, at $309. This means visitors are spending more on our accommodation, our cafes, our local businesses, of course providing a significant boost to the economy. More spending means more jobs in our communities. Increased visitor spending also flows directly into our regions, supporting local jobs and creating opportunities for communities and businesses up and down the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f78c8c4c95c7b38eefdf898c1636d5f9\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What commentary has she seen on these reports?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f8c99650a71dd7c8c506860ead62816\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Tourism Industry Aotearoa chief executive Rebecca Ingram has said, \u201CSignificant effort has been injected into stimulating demand and getting New Zealand tourism back on the map\u201D and \u201CTourism businesses love what they do. This information shows that this passion translates to more jobs, valuable export earnings, and continued growth.\u201D She also said, \u201CThis summer we have seen changes to our visa settings for China, which has made a real difference, and we\u2019ve seen quite considerable activity to stimulate demand.\u201D Mike Hosking said, this morning, \u201CI think the tourism stuff this week is the best story of the week so far. Tourism is back.\u201D The strength of our tourism industry is clear to see. As a Government, we are committed to ensuring a thriving tourism industry in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c57c96a37fe818493bd561bb63a37f38\u0022\u003EEnergy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002218fb8efe05a76d564de33371300e7552\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022 data-id=\u00227d62a03e3cbef255035847aaad57e11c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227d62a03e3cbef255035847aaad57e11c\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green) (14:33)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Energy\u003C/span\u003E: Did he model how the exposure to global liquefied natural gas markets would affect electricity prices for households in his proposal to build a liquefied natural gas terminal; and, if so, what did the modelling show?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022 data-id=\u002251635b0debdb9e0e37acca511aaf5d28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002251635b0debdb9e0e37acca511aaf5d28\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS (Minister for Energy) (14:34)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Independent modelling shows that a liquefied natural gas (LNG) importation facility will reduce forward prices by at least $10 per megawatt hour, reducing the average Kiwi\u2019s power bill by $50.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022976256d55fc6b5023b5b0b23762c9a28\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister have confidence that an LNG terminal is the lowest-cost option for Kiwi households when renewable options were excluded so early on?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bedd45691ed4b5bb1ce1c3fd7f25e323\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I answered in responses to question No. 2 today on similar questions, I outlined and noted that we did consider a range of options when making the decision to build an LNG terminal, but none of those other options could be delivered within the time, nor would they create the amount of electricity and power required to cover the gap that we have in the electricity market, and that\u2019s why we\u2019ve landed on the decision for LNG. But it is not a case of doing just LNG; we are also a Government that is supporting a significant build out of renewable generation across this country. Actually, in the last 18 months, under this Government, we have had the most amount of renewable generation in the entirety of the last decade, and so we are doing everything we can. It\u2019s an \u201Cand, and\u201D conversation, and LNG and renewables are part of the solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231be62e47190eec5c18f4d1f7a70c32b\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is it fair that Kiwi households will pay an extra levy on their power bills to subsidise industrial LNG users and infrastructure which would not be commercially viable otherwise?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d40c3f55bd4e26005f1eb5c036c24488\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: I reject the premise in that question because that is factually not correct. Kiwi power bills for both households and businesses will reduce as a result of the LNG importation terminal because the simple reality is that when you don\u2019t have fuel to make electricity, our prices spike, and that\u2019s what we inherited as a result of the banning of oil and gas. That\u2019s why prices spiked in 2024. We did not have and we do not have sufficient fuel to make electricity, hence the decision to create the capacity to import that. Having more options versus less options gives you more resilience. More resilience reduces the volatility in the prices that Kiwi households and businesses pay and, as a result, that sees downward pressure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cefcae707a7476d5e77939aaff4b9c9b\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he expect that the electricity generators and retailers who buy LNG fuel will pass on the cost of LNG to consumers, and, if so, how much would costs for households rise if there was a 50 percent spike in LNG prices, as has happened this week?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9675cb28bf1cb58971db656cc578225\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, first and foremost, the counterfactual is we do not have gas and we do not have, today, the capability to import fuel. The reality is that when you don\u2019t have gas, our prices spike, and that is the reality and the problem statement that we are looking to resolve. By importing gas, we resolve that problem. The way in which gas is priced is done over the long-run price. These contracts are contracted and are done over a long period of time, generally. They are not always purchased in the context of the spot price, and the reality is that irrespective of what the spot price does, when you look at the long-run price of LNG prices at the moment, even today they are still consistent with the long-run average. The spot price today is actually down from where it was on Monday, but it\u2019s still significantly below the peaks of the Ukraine crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228247e0476f15a2a37c7bbf7e51117321\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by this statement of the Prime Minister that \u201CI do think that energy independence is a good thing, and that\u2019s what this Government is delivering.\u201D; if so, how is tying New Zealanders\u2019 power bills to imported fuels\u2014which are vulnerable to supply disruption and price shocks, as demonstrated by the Iran conflict this week\u2014delivering energy independence?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238d20766c76c18f5c5d4954ff9a7ec7d\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I do agree with the Prime Minister, but I think, as the member will appreciate\u2014and I acknowledge his party are not the biggest fans of coal\u2014the reality of having another option in addition to coal, which is also subject to international price fluctuation, means that we have more options, and having more options other than just coal to make electricity in a dry year is a good thing. Having more options is better than having no options, and the scenario which we inherited on coming into Government was no options. That is not energy security, nor is it independence, but we want to resolve that problem, and we are.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ca2e6042b4aee146449a65d434db910\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220e85c2bd74e8f34eb9a0ba021d324184\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just wait for a moment\u2014just wait for a moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022499fb04008b930a28415704f9ab2e43e\u0022\u003EScott Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Why is it that the Government is willing to be interventionist on the part of the fossil fuel industry, such as through having billion-dollar subsidies for LNG and $200 million for gas exploration, but it will not invest in a lowest-cost option that would reduce household power bills\u2014like solar, which this Government has rejected?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b939ea3e1c6e073a4992fa2132449edc\u0022\u003EHon SIMON WATTS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve answered in responses to prior questions, we have seen more renewable generation built in this country in the last 18 months than the entirety of the last decade. This is a Government that is making it easier and faster and cheaper to build all electricity generation in this country. Why? Because we need electricity to power our economy. One of the challenges that we inherited is that options were shut down. Banning oil and gas takes options off the table. No oil and gas means no power that can be produced in a dry year. Less options mean more expensive power bills for Kiwis. That\u2019s a legacy that we inherited from your Government of the Greens and Labour. That\u2019s a legacy we\u2019re turning around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f0d9945a38c769d3f3b5c00e88baaa49\u0022\u003EHealth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022049950531033098075a692f2bf3890ab\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022 data-id=\u00228bebd2c46cbd9d02464b8a3c63ba12bb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228bebd2c46cbd9d02464b8a3c63ba12bb\u0022\u003EHon Dr AYESHA VERRALL (Labour) (14:40)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Health\u003C/span\u003E: How many people have had a GP consult through the Government\u2019s 24/7 online GP service since it was launched in July 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022 data-id=\u00222e3e81c91bed9ac993cd4f9fdcb7da73\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e3e81c91bed9ac993cd4f9fdcb7da73\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY (Associate Minister of Health) (14:40)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Health\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m advised that as of 22 February 2026, there\u2019s been 70,754 funded consultations, for 56,498 individual users, provided by the online GP service. That means that tens of thousands of Kiwis have received care they otherwise could not have accessed, making a real difference in those people\u2019s lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200fd830d4d81f7ab046233fdad6c5598\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: How does that compare to the Government\u2019s original claim that it would provide care to 1\u00A0million New Zealanders each year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226995b2c6e123bc9d84606f170b9a790a\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Feral, feral!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d65263cdbb3f4e20c8aaca385a1534f\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: It was never meant to be a silver bullet. It was to complement our primary care services. We announced it six months ago, and we\u2019re looking to scale it up. We want to welcome those eight providers that are delivering care 24/7. That\u2019s 60,000 Kiwis who have had extra access to primary care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cf393b36928915cbc65f87ba71a9e9a\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: What level can New Zealanders expect the service to be scaled to in the coming year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224885fa7951482248c05fadbf96647286\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: We are working with providers, and we will accept more providers in time. But I\u2019d just like\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022115c232486b1cb4e16ea5bdd2507ed06\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Feral Verrall!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cff3041af53550131ac2a6cb167c4f4d\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to point out that when we came into Government, only 75\u00A0percent of Kiwis could access their GP. That\u2019s now gone up to 79.5\u00A0percent. Things are trending in the right direction.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022db2ea575110f43e6b325fc2758d0d15b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022435b79c2b3ebdeacef88ef96e16d192f\u0022\u003EHon Dr Ayesha Verrall\u003C/span\u003E: Is it correct that even if the service hits 100,000 users this year, it will only be operating at a 10th of the volumes that were originally promised?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002225007935e7531cfc1f901a7ef6e55f01\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: I refute that question. It was never\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022321ee9314c3b541f12449fd2753d7149\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Feral, feral!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002224cf2b07c863455d8ff343c5bc53b590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226c3902904fae8e4c399cd2631aee2ab2\u0022\u003EHon MATT DOOCEY\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014promised. This was a service that was always about complementing GP practices. On this side of the House, we believe people should have choice, and we have given them choice to access online 24/7 care. It won\u2019t be for everyone, but for those who choose to do it, they can access it in real time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022724641d90c8be4ebc933c974ed74e121\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. There\u2019s been a bit of discussion in question time the last couple of weeks around the standard of contributions from members. Throughout that question, there was heckling from the Government benches that was making personally derogatory comments to my colleague who was asking questions. I won\u2019t go into it in detail now, but, perhaps, if you could review the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E and the recordings and come back to the House and say whether you believe that to be appropriate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9796b6278f267131b2f0c0e778123f0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I will do that. I also noticed that, in my left ear, I was hearing a lot of commentary while the answer was being given as well. Question No. 8, Rawiri Waititi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223863a1ada486d6ba2c401d4d3d8fc8fe\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Toughen up!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226ff891105af9f0e592fe2d8c97797962\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those comments aren\u2019t helpful at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fb7db1e3c6695c43e2b87d0ec5d91696\u0022\u003EDefence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d23d09d3fe7deee87ad580c2602117ee\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022 data-id=\u0022fdfc8c44a0e98d63731bd2d14f70ac99\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fdfc8c44a0e98d63731bd2d14f70ac99\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori) (14:44)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Defence\u003C/span\u003E: Will she rule out sending any military support to the USA and Israel for their military strikes on Iran, which have led to the reported deaths of 1,097 civilians, including 181 children under the age of 10; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u00226d9e1884afbaca92bb5b031ea3e915f7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d9e1884afbaca92bb5b031ea3e915f7\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence) (14:44)\u003C/span\u003E: We have not received any requests to contribute to the US and Israel\u2019s military action. New Zealand is not central to the issues in the Middle East. Any decision would be one for joint Ministers or Cabinet, not for the Minister of Defence alone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227441e7907bd41a513320148159fd276e\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Why is the Minister refusing to categorically rule out supporting the illegal invasion of Iran when these strikes were not authorised by the UN Security Council and there was no evidence of an imminent threat to the USA?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e760f525abba88a7c12dbc4137c819a2\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not going to repeat the answer I\u2019ve just given; obviously, the member hasn\u2019t taken that into account. We have not received any request to contribute to the US and Israel\u2019s military action. New Zealand is not central to the issues in the Middle East. Any decision would be one for joint Ministers or Cabinet. I may be the Minister of Defence, but I\u2019m neither joint Ministers nor Cabinet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e743a9f0fc42dfe274307be28ada72f2\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How can Aotearoa trust that this Government will stick to their word and keep Aotearoa out of this invasion when it was the National Party who advocated for New Zealand to support the invasion of Iraq in 2003?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9a53a64953beade38553d1a629c1806\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: Because we\u2019re a really sensible Government and not stupid.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225f93b55fa6c0a3baa495dc93c12e6157\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Could have fooled me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022290c6da8ed106d358706e10c303a5e56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, don\u2019t leave any speculation about how hard that might be. Just ask your question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022971b844ce88ec9377fa2f939217c3f7b\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Prime Minister that we have a responsibility to do everything we can to bolster the existing rules-based international order; if so, how will sending military support to aid this illegal invasion bolster the existing rules-based international order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b64945439db15f2090b23846bd5988f6\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m not sure that the member has any understanding that I\u2019ve just answered the question multiple times. We are not sending military support to deal with bolstering anything. What we are doing is sending military support with Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade consular people to be able to get those New Zealanders and those from Pacific nations out of the Middle East, and our other Commonwealth friends as well, who want to come back to New Zealand. I would have thought that was pretty clear. It\u2019s not quite the same. I can tell the member we don\u2019t have the sort of equipment that\u2019s being used in the Middle East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227b99d708586dbd74a0b47f5bb1fe0122\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002255acc6861e6a1b69dc8d4c69dcaeab2d\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u00226aff6bf70248120e87aac189e40a1e9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226aff6bf70248120e87aac189e40a1e9c\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (14:47)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all of the Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u0022570857c0b28055b3188b66e1b37616b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022570857c0b28055b3188b66e1b37616b4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister) (14:47)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Yes\u2014in particular, today, our Government\u2019s various efforts to get money into the country by making overseas investment easier and, indeed, welcoming it. We\u2019ve seen the time taken to consent an overseas investment application drop by 60\u00A0percent, from 71 days down to 28. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022177f1ae98e732f48656445856cf272a1\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Mining, mining!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ac2cc1dafb545206aa7b62dab4b9ebca\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ve seen, under the Active Investor Plus settings, 589 applications with a total value of $3.47 billion, already far exceeding expectations, and yet we don\u2019t see that as enough. Tomorrow, legislation will come into force that will allow most overseas investments to be consented in just 15 days by introducing a new two-track system that puts the emphasis on risky investment and allows people who want to send money to our country harmlessly to be able to do so much more easily. Altogether, it is a symbol that this Government understands that while we may be an Island nation, we can\u2019t be an Island nation that puts up walls to the seas of capital and ideas that surround us. We\u2019re open for business and we\u2019re going to get wealthier for the whole country by doing so.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f19833cf368c9f3aebda0ad7de3127d9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just suggest that the member three seats in from the cross benches on my right is not particularly helping the efforts of Ministers to answer the questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f045cf8980aae1c57fdf546735bc793\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by removing the dual mandate of the Reserve Bank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4f37a138ba91ff6d26185258e027275\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, yes, absolutely. Our Government has told the Reserve Bank to focus exclusively on controlling inflation, and the reason we have done that is that we saw the pain that was caused when the Reserve Bank let go of its focus on inflation. Inflation hit 7.3 percent and it hit the poorest people, who depend on living week to week, the hardest. It was OK for people with lots of assets\u2014their assets appreciate when the Government takes its eye off inflation, but we care about the opportunities of everyone in New Zealand to get ahead, and to do that you need a stable currency, so a dollar in your pocket today will be worth as close as possible to a dollar this time next year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f1c3f0bc51253678c052179a8789c435\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by reforming interest deductibility for landlords?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220234c7f198a9775736f3f4d59fea2147\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I absolutely stand by our policy of treating people in the property business exactly the same as every other business in the country. If you have an interest expense in any business, that is a legitimate expense to deduct from your income tax liability. None of this is complicated, but all of it is important. It\u2019s not just that we want to be consistent in principles in our tax policy; it\u2019s also that it has had real effects for those people who are trying to buy a home. A former Prime Minister said that we were removing interest deductibility from residential property to tilt the market towards first-home buyers. You know what happened? Rents went through the roof and first-home buyers had less to save a deposit. We actually have helped first-home buyers, who are now buying homes at record levels\u2014I think at 28 percent of new purchases\u2014because we\u2019ve got rents going down in many regions and flat in others after we reduced unfair taxes on renting out residential property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f7f3db02d30a8cc9b19f05d30ba8257\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by changes to pay equity?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022628cd1bac2c300571124dde7e1fb76ed\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Prime Minister, absolutely. The Equal Pay Act 1972 remains in place. It is still possible to take an appeal if you suffer from sex-based discrimination, and that is something that our Government remains committed to. All three parties believe that all people should be treated with equal rights and free from discrimination. But what we don\u2019t support is a bureaucratic, Byzantine set of rules that are overly complicated, overly expensive, and amount to setting wages by judges using crazy formulae in order to distribute money to places that it wouldn\u2019t have otherwise gone. And I say to the people on the other side: if they don\u2019t like it and they\u2019re going to bring pay equity back, show us the money.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022304537dc18e0e35cc25d6e4c98b479fe\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: Has he seen reports of anyone wanting to return the Reserve Bank to a dual mandate, remove interest deductibility from landlords, and/or turn the clock back on pay equity claims?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204c1d5bfdc1d340fdbe3bcac2621d112\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: It can\u2019t be a question that\u2019s designed to attack the Opposition, so the answer, of course, shall be cautious.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226241e23b4b229fd9c0dd5044fcfe29da\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I have no such intention. I have not seen any such reports. If I did, I would assume that it was simply a bad dream\u2014a nightmare never to be repeated\u2014and that it couldn\u2019t possibly happen in a country as pure and innocent as New Zealand. But just in case there was a small or remote possibility, we will be campaigning hard to make sure that the book on people\u2019s shelves is the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EEdmonds Cookery Book\u003C/span\u003E, not \u201CBarbara Edmonds\u2019 Book Cookery\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003E\u201D\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225477bfc2cf6e7e4702eaed3725637bf8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Now, you don\u2019t need to\u2014sorry, you\u2019re going to have to withdraw and apologise for that remark.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229310cb8dab807c0061003610af52cda8\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw, with great regret.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ac8dde3afc304a48da0a84c3f34c93f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You need to apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022934677e15a734650449837bd16180145\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022663926794229e79c5f8e9868b7d4d451\u0022\u003EDefence\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002220577691faa89b5fc4188a9736f9ae6a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ddd296b2eaa5c6240250822c5f093310\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ddd296b2eaa5c6240250822c5f093310\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (14:53)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Defence\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has she made about the New Zealand Defence Force providing assistance to New Zealanders in the Middle East?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022 data-id=\u0022e852bcdf61f81e5b33f45d3809a9f31c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e852bcdf61f81e5b33f45d3809a9f31c\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister of Defence) (14:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Overnight, the Minister of Foreign Affairs and I agreed to pre-deploy New Zealand consular staff and two C130Js to the region to be ready, when conditions allow, for any civilian evacuations. We cannot be sure when and how civilian evacuations might be possible, but we want to be ready if and when the conditions on the ground make them possible. Our New Zealand Defence Force (NZDF) and Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade (MFAT) staff are playing a vital role in the situation, stepping up to assist New Zealanders in distress overseas. There are limits on how much we can say publicly for reasons of operational security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228605722d6bdc09dde5250f34814b77e2\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: How does this assistance demonstrate the need for the New Zealand Defence Force to maintain a high level of readiness to help in situations like this?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225633a630792c51bf863997e34ba16390\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: This situation illustrates that crises can emerge suddenly and in places where thousands of New Zealanders may require assistance. With over 3,000 New Zealanders already registered in the region and potentially thousands more unregistered, the ability to move many people quickly to safety relies on having aircraft like the C130J and skilled personnel ready to deploy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d961a885d50039f623e82bcd4b249f38\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: How does this demonstrate the need for New Zealand to invest in its defence capabilities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022491437fcd6e1bc800f460db1530c3bb4\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The Defence Capability Plan 2025 is the Government\u2019s multibillion-dollar plan for a modern, combat-capable New Zealand Defence Force that pulls its weight internationally and domestically. Situations such as the one we are seeing unfold in the Middle East demonstrate firsthand the requirement for our Defence Force to be both equipped with the kit they need and trained to be able to use it. The Government\u2019s approach to defence, outlined in the plan, deliberately focuses on what we can and must do to rebuild the NZDF. We must invest very wisely in critical capability to ensure our personnel are combat-capable, interoperable, and ready to be of use to New Zealand wherever they are needed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ae4c66cf56aa285baea3934478136e51\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: How does the New Zealand Defence Force\u2019s contribution complement the work being led by other agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225d867066726345c4928a50b531fad0af\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e134ea376cfb34cfbcc374f2a35d52ae\u0022\u003EHon JUDITH COLLINS\u003C/span\u003E: The deployment is part of the whole-of-Government effort. The NZDF\u2019s airlift capabilities complement the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2019s consular leadership, with pre-deployed diplomatic staff and military air crew to prepare options for all contingencies. Our advice to New Zealanders is to leave only if it is safe and possible for them to do so. Where it is not safe to leave, shelter in place and call MFAT\u2019s 24/7 consular call centre for support and advice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022232318c8ecf26c28906fb0f0c4251f68\u0022\u003EHousing\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229f1aebcd273ca58efd8c196fb6839981\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022dcb7f5e11120c619e08c11d5b964cd22\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dcb7f5e11120c619e08c11d5b964cd22\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (14:56)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Housing\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement that \u201Cthere are 7,000 more social houses in the country\u201D; if so, how many of these additional houses were funded in Budgets 2024 and 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u00228e8856bee1e7f1ce7f914caf4bf2d101\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228e8856bee1e7f1ce7f914caf4bf2d101\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Housing) (14:56)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. Since this Government came into office, over 7,000 net new social houses have been delivered. Of those, 308 were funded in Budgets 2024 and 2025, and, of course, we\u2019ve funded lots more social and affordable homes that are under way. Finally, because Nicola Willis forgot to do it, can I say hello to Mr and Mrs Willis in the gallery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f24dd398268f4ff403482b8acfccd09\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: How are the front-line agencies supposed to find homes for what they claim are unprecedented levels of homeless people when his Government has only delivered 308 social houses in two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b6d56a87dddd231a9e2d33383012c5f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member is conflating two different issues. If the member is referring to Housing First places, then we have made an explicit direction that they can look at renting homes from the private market, which essentially become social houses because they attract the extra subsidy required for that. It is not the case that the Housing First places we have funded most recently\u2014and, indeed, that successive Governments have funded in the past\u2014are required to be new social housing builds. We made that decision because, as I hope the member will appreciate, we wanted to get people who were sleeping rough into homes as soon as we could.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254dccd7f90ef46ae3dc6a8b6664aa5db\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir. While I appreciate the response, I did not ask about Housing First places. If I wanted to find out about that, I would have specifically asked about it. The question directly flowed from the primary. In the primary, the Minister answered that there had been 308 delivered out of those Budgets, and I asked how the front-line providers are supposed to find houses for homeless people when that\u2019s all that they have delivered. I didn\u2019t ask about Housing First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0239f15d5fe911cb4db13eba5bf8b55\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022daf8444e739b471bc0010b0decf63cc0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: He did answer that, and talking about that was part of \u201Chow do you find houses\u201D, I would have thought.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be808e3df9273743c7f9b4a8ec5cdd30\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: How can he expect to house the growing number of homeless when the pipeline of houses contracted or under construction has dropped from 8,863 in 2023 to just 1,513 today, a drop of 83 percent in just two years?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8a969c3eb1ffb5f70328eaeebae5020\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a couple of points to be made in relation to that. Firstly, there are future Budgets to come, and the Government\u2019s\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220cf6fb8a26bed5d4b54e4521c601210\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EHow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a2052f3d9a05fcf11b1d65b15f90039\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, you fund these things over time, as the last Government did, as you would remember. There are Budgets to come. The second point I would make is that what I didn\u2019t talk about in the primary answer is a lot of M\u0101ori affordable homes are being delivered through iwi partnerships. I also didn\u2019t talk about transitional housing places that are also available, and there are a range of other programmes designed to help people in need\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002201f738f244724e5b8da066dba7a6a526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e14f9d3c402a54b3386b2f640c2f0e92\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not enough, otherwise homelessness wouldn\u2019t be getting worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7e4d54ab9e216fa295b3d87c4887a2d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, homelessness went up between 2018 and 2023, at a time when you spent tens of billions of dollars on K\u0101inga Ora, so maybe check the facts\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c32a5464239befd80f969326512c9b26\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EI know the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213099fa4882cf6b82f4f489b97c2b368\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Oh OK, well here are the facts: between 2018 and 2023, people living in severe housing deprivation increased, at a time that tens of billions of dollars were spent by the Government on housing support. If it was a money problem, the previous people in charge of the Government books would have fixed it. The social housing wait-list between 2017 and 2023 quintupled, at a time when billions of dollars were spent on K\u0101inga Ora. I\u2019ll put this Government\u2019s record on social housing up against the lunatics opposite any day of the week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221658f12277a9a1090f5ce29260eacfe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Withdraw the one comment there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c19346cf4209dc63fe630275b426b5e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I assume you\u2019re talking about \u201Clunatics\u201D. I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228db70d53b3917c3b96497da8b02c5d23\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, OK, that\u2019s not the way to do it. You simply stand, withdraw, and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c1599adb300f1a172e8a9054e470b41e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f955a20ae4e40ac17e92d3fb2a3569\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister stand by his statement that the social housing register is not an accurate measure of need and should not be referred to as a measure of success or otherwise, and, if so, why did he just do so in response to one of my colleagues?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fd179349dfc1802e7686fd0312b024d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Of course. I\u2019ve made that point many times. But it is the measure we have, and it\u2019s also a measure the previous Government used to work out as a proxy of need for people in need of social housing. It is not perfect, but it is the measure we have. It has been consistent across multiple Governments around the eligibility to get on to the measure; therefore, it enables comparison between different periods of time. Is it perfect? No. Is it what we have? Yes. Could it be improved? Absolutely. The Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet did a report under the previous Government recommending a series of improvements to it, some of which have been actioned, some of which are part of a longer-term programme. It\u2019s not perfect, but it\u2019s what we\u2019ve got.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d55ce2d56b81ebba6d1e69021b3d08bd\u0022\u003EHon Tama Potaka\u003C/span\u003E: Can the Minister of Housing please confirm that the number on the social housing register in October 2023 was 2,543 and since then, to November 2025, has reduced to 19,505, and the emergency housing household numbers in October 2023 were 3,342, and that has now reduced to under 500?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227177ad90211415faa4b12a5957d32f0d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I think the member meant 25,000 rather than 2,000 in his reference to the October 2023, but\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c45d31679bc8f11b34d4a09ed0fab9d2\u0022\u003EHon Members: \u003C/span\u003EYou kicked them off the list.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d669f1660c7e5e6eb13ffb30925f058e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, that is not the case. Allegations like that are serious allegations. That is not correct. Eligibility for the social housing register is unchanged.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202d5dc6c7499ad325660ca2e94eb5a5f\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: You changed the criteria.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228161c7b9e951d9f766aad2a374fd8297\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: No, again, that is an allegation that is not\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022089d3a91447348256300f684e6ae4946\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Contribute to homelessness.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225674f755cd0c6a76fa35dc1832d18f2d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: That is an allegation\u2014the member should be careful about throwing allegations like that. That is misleading the House. That is not correct. Eligibility for the social housing register is unchanged from the previous Government to today, which allows for comparisons. Is the measure perfect? No, it is not. Do we need to do more to fix housing in New Zealand? Yes, we do. Is the register going down? Yes, it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cc3a4032dcbd2a73e8502ea320bf447\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022968c95a3d16395f286babf5d9ecef5da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, you\u2019re done. You got an extra one, actually.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227711a39368e86e796bdee0c4e8ef5066\u0022\u003EACC\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1b56ba4ee453588de101bdf8376c82f\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u002237b34e2303d74c7c0a2ee2ea9a75045c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237b34e2303d74c7c0a2ee2ea9a75045c\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (15:04)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for ACC\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has he made regarding the Accident Compensation Corporation?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022 data-id=\u0022e104160b22cbda01598e129a8be37fba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e104160b22cbda01598e129a8be37fba\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON (Minister for ACC) (15:04)\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, I announced that the Accident Compensation Corporation (ACC) is delivering its strongest rehabilitation performance in more than a decade. Supporting injured New Zealanders to recover and return to work and independence is a core purpose of ACC. For too long, too many New Zealanders have been left waiting for the support they needed to recover and get back to doing what they love. That is simply not acceptable. That\u2019s why, alongside the Minister of Finance, I directed ACC to lift its performance and put rehabilitation back at the centre of everything it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c5c573625d61c988dcb411204f91698\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What does this mean for New Zealanders who need ACC support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022331af62cdc11e7180bc23e83f9244dce\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, by making rehabilitation the foremost priority, ACC will be better supporting people to get the right help at the right time. It\u2019s not complicated: when the focus is on recovery, people get better outcomes, and we are already starting to see that flow through. I want to be clear: there is a lot more yet to do but, after years of decline, it\u2019s encouraging to see some real progress being made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e022201c7a986add78888eadf6f121d0\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What direction has he given ACC to enable these results?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225bb32c8e66a1fda64c2a982ff138d3cc\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: My direction to ACC has been clear and very deliberate. In the recent letter of expectation sent to ACC, I set out three priorities: (1) putting clients first by providing care that supports lasting recovery; (2) helping New Zealanders return to work and independence, which is a fundamental purpose of the scheme; and (3) resetting ACC by getting the organisation back to basics, with a clear focus on delivery and outcomes. When ACC is aligned to those priorities, it delivers better results for all New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002213ab159c8caab312c5ffbd30fd9bea62\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: What recent trends has he seen in performance?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f537d6f7e9d0407792892b239af9ec7f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223bbea3c0bddc40fcb1f1606f6d747ffb\u0022\u003EHon SCOTT SIMPSON\u003C/span\u003E: The long-term claims pool represents around 25,000 New Zealanders who have been on ACC for more than 12 months. Since 2017, this pool has grown dramatically; in fact, it has doubled, with growth exceeding 14 percent. Now, that growth reflected a system that was failing far too many people. Under this Government, that trend has been turned around, and, as of this week, growth has been reduced to below 1 percent. That\u2019s very significant. It\u2019s a significant shift, and it matters because behind every number is a real person. On this side of the House, we\u2019re focused on fixing the basics and building the future; ensuring that ACC does its job properly is a key part of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a4ca891ae4695d5d8ef00837b6f8b444\u0022\u003EDebates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b66f1e1f430a9c7e8da110a044288296\u0022\u003EPhone Call\u2014TVNZ Board Chair to Minister for Media and Communications\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022518036818550a7061a3f303e09ef36d0\u0022\u003EUrgent Debate Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002248be155832ed254549027d0d1b4c86d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248be155832ed254549027d0d1b4c86d8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (15:07)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from Reuben Davidson seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 matters arising from a phone call received by the Minister for Media and Communications from the chair of the board of TVNZ, and the Minister\u2019s subsequent actions. This is a particular case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The member speculates about several matters in his application that do not appear to be supported by authentication as provided, nor from questions and answers in the House today. The application is therefore declined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002231dea721d131f592e4de1d1cf232af15\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220a753225cf06df3c2aea2bfe01908a72\u0022\u003EData and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d3d39fa1bd45da6614da736ff7118b43\u0022\u003ELegislative Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u002232a3c8578882e95a3f226c17c2b5a502\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002232a3c8578882e95a3f226c17c2b5a502\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Statistics) (15:08)\u003C/span\u003E: I present a legislative statement on the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f4218c95163ca7639018d9619b1c172\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website. Can I ask members to leave the House quietly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f933a210742886e170c0f5bd9c81a55e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u0022732f3174c7f7a48bebee02a2293a3072\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022732f3174c7f7a48bebee02a2293a3072\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Statistics) (15:08)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 17 July 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Government is progressing a substantial work programme to address an issue of increasing importance to the quality of public and private decision-making: how New Zealand gathers, produces, and communicates its most fundamental population and dwelling data and statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe census is important to understanding who we are as a nation, and supporting New Zealand\u2019s economic and social wellbeing. Government agencies, businesses, and communities use census data to support important decision-making, planning, and research across all sectors of society, but the census needs to evolve to better meet these needs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOver the last two censuses, there have been significant challenges with the traditional approach to census collection that relied heavily on all New Zealanders completing a census form. Declining response rates, coupled with rising costs and significant interruptions due to natural disasters, mean the traditional way of doing the census is simply no longer sustainable. Multiple Governments have been advised accordingly, and progressed along a pathway to a more modern census.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is an opportunity to do things better. More than a decade of research and consultation across several Governments means we now know much more about how the data collected by Government agencies can be used for official statistics. That is what the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill is about. It does three key things. First, the census bill enables the move to an annual census. In today\u2019s world, people need information that is more meaningful, relevant, and timely. To that end, the census bill requires the Government Statistician to publish core census statistics about the previous financial year annually, beginning in 2030. This is a significant improvement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMore up-to-date data means smarter decisions, helping build a stronger, more productive economy, and more effective public services for all who need and use them. Stats NZ is ready to make this shift to a new census model. How we run the census is evolving. There is no longer a need to door-knock the whole country to carry out a census, but the census will continue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESecond, the census bill clarifies when Stats NZ will need to consult the public and engage with M\u0101ori on census content and when census operations must be reviewed. As the new census approach means ongoing data collection and more frequent opportunities to update or change what information the census collects, the census bill will require the Government Statistician to consult regularly, at least once every three years. This is a practical way to ensure census decisions are informed by the needs of users and communities. Similarly, rather than reviewing census operations after each census, the census bill requires operations to be reviewed after the first modern census, three years after that, and then at least every fifth year after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThird, the census bill makes technical changes to support the new census approach. The most noteworthy is that the census bill will ensure local electoral boundary reviews continue to work as they do now. This makes the census bill an omnibus bill, but these changes are necessary to ensure the law continues to operate pragmatically.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThough it is short, the census bill has potential constitutional implications. Currently, the completion of a census triggers a national electoral boundary review. These boundary reviews can only happen after each census. An annual census requires an adjusted approach to electoral boundary reviews to avoid annual boundary reviews, which would be impractical and unworkable. That is why the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill will propose adjustments to the electoral boundary review process so that future boundary reviews take place during every second electoral cycle, starting from 2030.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs members will know, the overall aim of electoral boundary reviews is to ensure everyone is fairly and equally represented in Parliament. The electoral bill does not change the underlying process for boundary reviews, nor the principles that sit behind that process. The purpose of the electoral bill is to ensure that in the future, the most recently available census continues to be the basis of boundary reviews but no longer the trigger for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll briefly outline a few points, what it means to run a census using data already held by Government, and what is happening to make the census approach work for all New Zealand. The shift to an annual census is possible because the modernised census will be based on administrative data first; information already held by Government agencies. Every time someone uses a public service, they provide information that can be used to produce census data and statistics. Stats NZ already uses data from other Government agencies: what people pay in tax, which provides information about their income; when people pay tax; when someone has a child, gets married or has a civil union, which provides information about the make-up of families; and when people enroll with their doctor or school, or update their details, this gives information about our population and where people live.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPrivacy and the protection of people\u2019s data is paramount, and there is no change to the Government\u2019s commitment to keep data safe and secure. The Data and Statistics Act will continue to protect the privacy, security, and confidentiality of the data Stats NZ is entrusted with. Data collected for the census can never be used for regulatory or enforcement purposes. Admin data is the foundation of the new census model. In many cases, Government data can provide better information than we could collect on census night. Where that is not the case, work is already well under way to improve the quality of admin data and ensure that Stats NZ can get the data it needs when it needs it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor most essential census population statistics, admin data can already provide high coverage, and we know there is a high level of consistency between census responses and the integrated admin data already available. We will still need to collect some data directly from New Zealanders. Admin data cannot give us everything we need. We will collect this additional data through a new annual census survey. This will run year-round and be completed by around 60,000 households per year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EStats NZ will also work closely with smaller or harder to reach population groups such as iwi M\u0101ori, Pacific, disabled, ethnic, rainbow, and homeless and transient communities to ensure they have the data they need. Tailored solutions, like targeted surveys, new data standards, and community collections will also be developed to reflect the experience of these communities and to help meet their data needs and support better outcomes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that some groups are concerned that the new census approach will not give them what they need. The Government takes these concerns seriously, but they are not new and were not necessarily addressed by previous censuses, nor can they be addressed by avoiding much-needed change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe census must work for all New Zealand. A range of partners and groups will contribute to the planning of the next census\u2014for example, through the establishment of new community design groups. The initial focus will be on planning for the next census, but other key statistics programmes will also benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDelivering the first modern census is a considerable undertaking. Stats NZ needs time to prepare, and agencies need time to improve the quality of their data. To ensure the model is introduced as smoothly as possible, there will be a series of admin data releases over the next few years. This will demonstrate progress and will also help people become familiar with the changes and ensure they have the data they need between now and 2030.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETransitional population data will actually become available annually from later this year. Transitional dwellings data will become available from late 2027. From 2028, these data releases will become official statistics, suitable for use in critical planning and decision making, although there will not be formal census releases. This will lead to the first modern census release being published in 2030.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA modern New Zealand needs a modern census. Multiple Governments have progressed this pathway, and now the baton has passed to us. The census bill enables the shift to a more flexible, efficient, and resilient census that will deliver the more frequent, high-quality insights our country needs now and into the future. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227aedf1a76283a8c0acea7fc3e70f155f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022 data-id=\u002250d3c01c3c6fcf7e55b38b3ae4f6f696\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250d3c01c3c6fcf7e55b38b3ae4f6f696\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere) (15:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to make a contribution on this side of the House. Labour will be supporting this at the first reading; however, I do want to raise that we are concerned at a number of the features that have been proposed\u2014firstly, the reliability of the data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Minister has outlined the overall progress of the bill through the House. We are concerned specifically in terms of a number of the features that have been outlined, and I do want to go through that in this omnibus bill. We have heard it brings three Acts together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe accuracy and the current way the census is done every five years is helpful for officials to go through different segments of the current census data. The Minister has outlined that there is going to be an annual census collection, and we would question the reliability of the data in terms of specifically talking to our vulnerable communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Minister also outlined that the census will be modernised in the different methods that they are going to use and provide a number of opportunities in what the data presents. Labour would like to see, through the methodology, that it is scrutinised, hence our support to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the regulatory impact statement, it outlined on page 3 the scale and pace of change. There are questions around the scale and pace of change. Will New Zealanders understand the purpose of the changes? How will communities such as iwi M\u0101ori, Pasifika, rural communities, our communities that need physical help in terms of impairments or vision\u2014those types of features, in terms of the technicalities and financial ability of the data that has to be collected and how crucial that will be in terms of that methodology.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s what we question, but especially also the data quality. It is important that when Stats NZ, under this new bill, collects the methodology\u2014how will they manoeuvre their collection methods into responding to those communities? The reason why I ask is there is a strong assumption that everyone understands English. If you are moving to a new system, has that been understood by New Zealanders? If you\u2019re not going to collect the important data on a specific night, the new tools, will they be amended to the needs of our communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the short term, what are the potential impacts of that policy? How crucial is the reliability, again, of that data? Those are the things that we want to ask through the process at select committee. Will the public be able to provide submissions that go through the features of the new bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOur reservations continue, in terms of the modernisation of this omnibus bill, that when surveys are being designed, is it going to receive the proper information that requires the accuracy to inform departments of the coming trends of policies that are going to be discussed by different agencies?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe timing of the next census is going to miss 2028 and going to be introduced in 2030. Will it be designed effectively? It does have constitutional changes in the next bill: the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill will also be covered in terms of what is being introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI continue to raise this through the House, because I come from a community who wants to understand the different laws and why things move so fast. It is important that when the data has been collected from communities up and down Aotearoa\u2014our public from different vulnerable and minority communities\u2014do they understand the change? What is the purpose, and why is it happening so fast? Whilst Labour supports it to the first reading, we are going to continue to ask questions to the Government. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022 data-id=\u00221d82976eaca2460e5614d74e2a78d668\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221d82976eaca2460e5614d74e2a78d668\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) (15:21)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare.\u003C/span\u003E I rise to speak on this first reading. The Greens do acknowledge there\u2019s a big challenge about long-term decline in census response rates making it increasingly difficult to gather information. I\u2019d like to congratulate the staff who once found me at the T\u014Dtaranui campsite and got me to fill in the form in situ; that was excellent. The ones that failed to find where we lived in the Wairarapa because we didn\u2019t have a bridge at the time\u2014less successful, but we got the forms and filled them in anyway.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not opposed to the concept of an admin-first census approach in principle, and we do think there are some opportunities for statistical improvement in the yearly census attribute surveys. I mean, we do need real evidence, whether it\u2019s for looking at health outcomes and health planning, not only the infrastructure of hospitals but actual primary healthcare as well. We do need the data. In particular, the Greens support resourcing the collection of insightful, high-quality information about our population and, of course, the environment\u2014though that\u2019s not the census\u2019s role\u2014and the dwelling data is of vital importance to the Green Party. The Government and Stats NZ are not wrong when you say that the country is less willing to participate. There\u2019s been increased spending, but responses from M\u0101ori and Pasifika didn\u2019t increase markedly in the last census. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHowever, there are some limitations in the current form of the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill. We won\u2019t support it, but that doesn\u2019t mean we won\u2019t be constructive at select committee. I mean, it\u2019s almost a line call. Do you support it and try and improve it at select committee or do you oppose it? We have got enough reasons to oppose it at this first reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn particular, we want to see the following points addressed: improved coverage of harder to reach communities; some kind of minimum coverage of those harder to reach populations, specifically iwi M\u0101ori, Pacific, disabled, ethnic, rainbow, transient, and homeless people. Of course, it\u2019s somewhat ironic that those are just the people that the Electoral Amendment Act somewhat disenfranchised. Here we are hoping that we\u2019re going to get more information but not seeing the funding. I mean, it could be because you\u2019re not reporting back until July from the Justice Committee. It could be we\u2019re pleasantly surprised by some Budget allocations in May that will adequately fund agencies to collect the data that we need, instead of expecting more and more in existing baselines when inflation is eroding those numbers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other area that we have considerable concerns with is M\u0101ori data sovereignty. Te K\u0101hui Raraunga, an independent body established in 2019, has concerns about the Government\u2019s approach. They agree that M\u0101ori have worked with Stats NZ to improve the national census, which has lifted the quality of iwi affiliation information from very poor in 2018 to moderate in 2023. Will we see any continuing improvement in the admin-first census approach? The M\u0101ori descent population is a key input into the setting of electoral boundaries, and it\u2019s interesting to see that this bill is now somewhat separate, although temporarily followed by the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe do have those concerns. We look forward to a robust select committee process through the Justice Committee, and we want to see some safeguards against the misuse of admin-first data. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u002220a750aa46f220240d37c965850afb1e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220a750aa46f220240d37c965850afb1e\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (15:26)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Two millennia ago, a young family had to travel across the desert to complete a census. That was a burden on a family that day. Many years later, we have continued to modernise the census and this Minister of Statistics is carrying on that proud tradition. I support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u0022fddb1b5a497861279cdff6da53cf8dbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fddb1b5a497861279cdff6da53cf8dbf\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (15:27)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of New Zealand First as the spokesperson for data and statistics and this Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill. We live in a digital age. Accumulation is significantly easier to do than in the days of yore when statisticians had images of the man with a quill in the room right at the top next to us, next to his candle, making all the calculations. I think we\u2019ve moved on a little bit from there. As the Minister of Statistics has said, the census needs to evolve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe need tailored solutions to meet, for example, the needs of M\u0101ori and harder to reach communities. That is why it\u2019s important that we modernise the practice regarding the collection of census data, as at the moment it takes far too long, and we need more important and evolved data collection.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe data collection through an admin data - first system will save us more time and money in the long term, while still providing us with the relevant data we need to make decisions around important things like infrastructure and resource allocation. The bill will make the Government more efficient, leaner, and smarter in the statistics area that we gather. We look forward to strengthened data collection and statistical analysis as we take advantage of new technologies, Minister. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6f2fb4044e9cb578392cc4ee87e8a82\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6f2fb4044e9cb578392cc4ee87e8a82\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato) (15:28)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te rangi nei, e whakah\u0113 ana i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire m\u014D ng\u0101 tatauranga me te kohikohi i ng\u0101 tatauranga ki te census.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE whakah\u0113 ana m\u0101tou, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, i t\u0113nei pire n\u0101 runga an\u014D i te mea k\u0101re an\u014D kia kohia, kia haere ki te rapu, te kimi i ng\u0101 tatauranga e p\u0113hia nei ng\u0101 hapori M\u0101ori i roto i ng\u0101 rohe M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker; indeed, greetings to us all in the House. I stand to give voice to comments on behalf of the M\u0101ori Party today, in opposition to this particular bill regarding statistics and the collection of statistics via the census.  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWe, the M\u0101ori Party, oppose this bill due to the fact that statistics have yet to be collected, sought, and found regarding statistics of the oppression of M\u0101ori communities in M\u0101ori areas\u003C/span\u003E.] \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe P\u0101ti M\u0101ori opposes this bill. This bill amends the Data and Statistics Act 2022. Some of the points are: require the publication of census data and statistics each year, move the next census from 2028 to 2030, and clarify the census obligations of the Government statistics under a modern admin data - first census approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of the points: any changes to data collection\u2014and the reasoning why we oppose this bill\u2014and representation will intersect with Te Tiriti o Waitangi, and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori urges that all proposed changes must be developed in partnership with tangata whenua. Data sovereignty must be upheld, and iwi, hapu, and M\u0101ori organisations must be included and properly resourced to contribute to any new arrangements. Although M\u0101ori organisations such as Te K\u0101hui Raraunga have been consulted with, this does not amount to true partnership. It is well-established fact that administrative data has and will continue to undercount M\u0101ori, and many of our people don\u2019t engage with the systems and Government that collects this data, due to the lack of trust within these institutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother reason why there are major concerns around moving the data census to 2030 is this will have huge impact on the electoral law boundaries with the seats and representations that we\u2019ll have in Parliament, and we want to make sure that that doesn\u2019t affect M\u0101ori representation within the M\u0101ori seats, in the electorate seats that M\u0101ori have\u2014so not just on a census and statistics view but also in view of democracy and making sure that M\u0101ori have voice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of the \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Ek\u014Drero o ng\u0101 a Kirikowhai me te ohu o Te K\u0101hui Raraunga i roto i ng\u0101na k\u014Drero a Te K\u0101hui Raraunga\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Emessages of Kirik\u014Dwhai and Te K\u0101hui Raraunga, that is, in her words and the words of Te K\u0101hui Raraunga\u003C/span\u003E]\u2014Data Iwi Leaders Group lead technician Kirikowhai Mikaere says her organisation was involved in some of the consultation behind the changes, but she still has many concerns about how it will go ahead: \u201CAdministrative data, we know, doesn\u2019t necessarily have the robust coverage for some key variables for iwi M\u0101ori - in particular for iwi affiliation variable, the M\u0101ori descent variable, and te reo M\u0101ori.\u201D Another kaupapa k\u014Drero is \u201COne of the concerns of moving to a system that relies on the combination of administrative data and smaller annual surveys, is that it might roll back the progress we\u2019ve made and negatively impact the quality of M\u0101ori data.\u201D I just want to acknowledge the many mahi that Kirikowhai and Te K\u0101hui Raraunga have done within collecting M\u0101ori data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThese are some of our major concerns that we have as Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori in making sure that there\u2019s true partnership in the decision making within this bill and within collecting data and within collecting statistics, but most of all, and another huge important point, is that it reflects here in our democracy that we have a representation of M\u0101ori voices in Parliament. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u002265518cd8f358046d95fda4bd8f433ad3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002265518cd8f358046d95fda4bd8f433ad3\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui) (15:33)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As I\u2019ve shared previously in this House, I\u2019m a bit of a traditionalist, and so this idea is an interesting one for me, but when you look at the facts, the 2018 census: a budget of around $126\u00A0million; the 2023 census: budget of $230\u00A0million\u2014unsurprisingly, it cost $324\u00A0million under that Government. It\u2019s time to review the way we collect this data and bring it into the modern age, and, therefore, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u00226c317aad34ba981017e7739c1ab7f3e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226c317aad34ba981017e7739c1ab7f3e7\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (15:33)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is an important matter. I mean, I think many people have focused on the historical importance of the census in their contributions today, and I do think that it is important to consider how long we have been collecting data in the census for and how significant that has been. Many in this House may have looked back at censuses past in order to ascertain a small amount of information about their ancestors in this country and also other countries. I recall in a previous census there was an option that your data would be released at a certain point in the future, or you could tick a box to allow that, and I imagined my descendants having nothing else better to do but to go and look up my census data and, you know, look at the life I was leading in the early \u201Cnoughties\u201D\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] or perhaps the early 2000s. I mean, perhaps that was slightly naive, but I do think it points to a slight sadness that is probably reflected around the House\u2014and probably on the Government benches too\u2014that we are looking at something which will make a significant change to the way that we collect historical data.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is something that the Labour Party has committed to supporting to select committee. I think that there\u2019ll be important questions at select committee for the officials, and I think we\u2019ll be very interested to hear submissions from members of the public who may agree or may not agree with this move. It is clear that there have been some issues with the census in terms of moving from a paper-based model into one that\u2019s online and more attuned with the times. There have been a few issues with that, and, yes, it is expensive, but it is\u2014I\u2019m not a statistician, but I do see the move to administrative data as a little bit like moving to polling as opposed to having a general election: sometimes it might be right, sometimes it might be wrong; do we really know for sure? That is the concern, I suppose, with this: what are we missing by just looking at administrative data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe did have the Minister of Statistics in front of the Governance and Administration Committee, and we did talk about these issues around the census\u2014and officials as well. There are concerns around, especially, data surrounding homelessness and vulnerable communities, but also, I have to say, there are a number of people who you wouldn\u2019t put into that category who may not be connected with other Government collection of data statistics. People who may not be going to the Ministry of Social Development, who may not be going to the doctor\u2014how are we going to ensure that our full population is recognised through administrative data?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThese are genuine questions, and I don\u2019t think this is generally something that is overly politicised. I\u2019m sure the Government would like to have a consensus within political parties around this collection of data, because, as we know, so many decisions of the Government depend on where we see the statistics and what information we collect about our population. So this does have a huge amount of impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am concerned that there might be people who are now recorded in the existing census model who may not be recorded in this new model. I would really appreciate the select committee process to, hopefully, allay some of those concerns, although I am a little bit surprised to see the Justice Committee is dealing with this bill. I\u2019m sure members of the Governance and Administration Committee will be slightly disappointed not to be able to delve into this issue when we\u2019re involved in so much of the\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2fe54cb5e4852c17a2c33ea4295244e\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: They need more work!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265d2242cd6c706505680b47763d4945c\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, that may be the case, but when we\u2019re involved in so much scrutiny on the issue\u2014but no doubt the Minister will be able to update us on what\u2019s been happening with this bill at annual review and after Estimates as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EWe will support this bill, but with some, probably, sadness and trepidation and also wanting some assurances that the statistical data in New Zealand will not be left in a worse place and we won\u2019t be turning our back on something that we\u2019ve all participated in, that many of our ancestors who have been in New Zealand and around the world have participated in and that has provided, until now, the best way that we can see the needs and see what our entire population looks at and get really important information from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022ac72a18212137a61518f9949724a1ddb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ac72a18212137a61518f9949724a1ddb\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (15:38)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m really excited about the future ahead with the changes that we\u2019re going to be making under this bill, the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill. I thank the Minister of Statistics, Dr Shane Reti, for driving this forward. When quality data is collected more regularly, essentially what it means is that we can provide better outcomes with more knowledge. So, looking forward to discussing this on the Justice Committee, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u0022648cf0710ff1cfbf1d9a3f8af8877080\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022648cf0710ff1cfbf1d9a3f8af8877080\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central) (15:39)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia orana, Mr Speaker. First of all, I\u2019d like to thank the Minister for his engagement on this bill and the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill. I do think that we\u2019ll get a much better bill and, ultimately, legislation out of that; so thank you, Dr Reti, for your engagement on this. We\u2019re not going to agree on everything all the time, but I do think, on something as important as statistics and how we approach the census question, it\u2019s really good that we try to get as much agreement as we can. Also, I think we have a framework where we can robustly challenge what\u2019s going on, and I do think the select committee process will be really, really important, particularly the advice we get. Data, statistics, and census might seem very dry indeed, but I hope there will be a number of people out there who are expert in this area and will give their advice to us. There is always a danger when we get into a niche area that a department kind of takes an approach and, once it arrives on a particular approach, it doesn\u2019t test it objectively enough. That\u2019s what the select committee process is for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt has been identified that we are concerned\u2014there are two things that I would say are main concerns. One is: will this new method capture everyone? There is always, with any data-collection method, natural bias. Obviously, an admin data - first approach has a bias towards people who are administered\u2014that is to say, if you have a connection with the health system, Inland Revenue, the Ministry of Social Development, or any other Government agency, you\u2019re going to be touching the system and you\u2019ll be recorded. Whereas there is a cohort of people\u2014and the Minister, in his first reading speech, identified them\u2014who aren\u2019t touched by the State in the same way. They live on the edges, and they might not have much to do with the State at all. Whilst there will be some work, and it has been undertaken already, to try and capture the homeless or rural communities or M\u0101ori communities that might live and not see State agencies a great deal at all, we\u2019ve got to make sure that that really, really works.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other concern is that the next counting day or whatever we want to call it\u2014the reference date\u2014will actually be in 2030 or later, and that\u2019s a long time away. We\u2019re pushing out our\u2014the nation\u2014being in possession of reliable information about who we are to beyond seven years past the last census date. That\u2019s a long time, and every year that passes, data becomes less reliable. When we come to say where shall we build a school or a hospital, or where do we think we need to have a new piece of infrastructure or transport infrastructure going, we\u2019re going to be grasping in the dark more and more. That is actually a concern. Whilst, once this is in place, the aim is to have this rolling data so that we don\u2019t have this huge hope for accuracy once every five years\u2014but we have a high degree of accuracy in June every year\u2014this lag is actually a matter of considerable concern.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is the wider concern that\u2019s been expressed amongst some communities, particularly smaller communities for whom there is a risk, even in a large survey like the 60,000 people survey that\u2019s contemplated, that they won\u2019t be accurately captured. The Rotuman language, for example, as a first language\u2014it\u2019s a few hundred people in New Zealand\u2014will that be captured in the census as an important Pasifika language? It\u2019s conceivable that, in 60,000 people, you won\u2019t find one of them, so it\u2019s not a language that exists in New Zealand on that census, when we know that it is. There are those kinds of questions that come up, but as our spokesperson has said, we want to take this to select community, have a good examination of it, and the Justice Committee is excited by the concept of data and statistics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u002215cdbc74949a9f77a34feb046a0ec906\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002215cdbc74949a9f77a34feb046a0ec906\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (15:44)\u003C/span\u003E: Excellent. It\u2019s with great pleasure I stand to rise in support of the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill. Of course, the census and kind of collecting data on a population level is very, very, very important. It dictates where the Government puts a lot of their resources\u2014whether that be transport, whether that be health, whether that be education. We use our census data. We need to know where people are; we need to know what we have. This is a very, very important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, we have relied on the traditional method of census\u2014a traditional, paper-based method\u2014so it\u2019s great that we\u2019re going to be moving to this new method, because despite escalating costs, we have been getting data that is getting poorer and poorer. I once had a scientific colleague who had the saying, \u201CWe don\u2019t waste pure thoughts on impure data\u201D. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222650cea8aaa397088dfd3eaa3eff7236\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f8b04a7df61c36025c0eab04d3f26e89\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f8b04a7df61c36025c0eab04d3f26e89\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono) (15:46)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002201e57ef565604140d8ba61245a31d24c\u0022\u003EInstruction to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022 data-id=\u00226f6d1a3a8e9e1596b2e7411db84d5314\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022673069789fe74d02ac517109c173ccbd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226f6d1a3a8e9e1596b2e7411db84d5314\u0022\u003EHon Dr SHANE RETI (Minister of Statistics) (15:47)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 17 July 2026\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f840bce10433597d57fd6b8bb1898d2d\u0022\u003EElectoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022653eef318d5a4ded7a3720808d93f036\u0022\u003ELegislative Statement\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u0022e331c6b9a19d5756b139580df3fd271b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e331c6b9a19d5756b139580df3fd271b\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing) (15:47)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Justice\u003C/span\u003E: I present a legislative statement on the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a90ad57e29e0eedeb41e8e1aff2db7c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: That legislative statement is published under the authority of the House and can be found on the Parliament website.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022484da100dc84b019c33ae7389ef96d10\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u00220e796d2aec668427052a8a44e2ef9ade\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e796d2aec668427052a8a44e2ef9ade\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing) (15:47)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Justice\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Justice Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 6 July 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Government is progressing a substantial work programme to modernise the census, as we have just heard. This includes shifting towards annual publication of census statistics, rather than every five years, and making greater use of administrative data when producing the census. As part of this, the next census will be moved from 2028 until 2030. This shift is about making sure that people get the information they need to make more timely and more informed decisions. These changes are being progressed as part of a separate Data and Statistics (Census) Amendment Bill that members may well be very familiar with. The census provides essential information to Government agencies, businesses, and communities about who we are, and it is central to planning, decision making, and developing insights about New Zealanders\u2019 economic and social wellbeing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt also plays a part in the core democratic process of setting the country\u2019s electoral boundaries. As members will know, each five-yearly census automatically triggers a boundary review, where the independent Representation Commission draws up electoral boundaries. The overall aim of this process is to ensure that everyone is fairly and equally represented. This is arguably an understated but very significant feature of New Zealand\u2019s democratic system. The shift towards annual publication of census data means that it is necessary to amend the Electoral Act 1993. If the Act is not changed, boundary reviews will be legally triggered on an annual basis, resulting in an impractical and unworkable boundary review system, not to mention quite a lot of consternation for members in the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAlthough many features of the boundary review system are highly technical, the policy behind the bill is relatively straightforward. It provides that the Representation Commission must complete a boundary review during every second electoral cycle, starting from 2030. This change will ensure that New Zealand\u2019s electoral boundaries continue to be adjusted regularly and in a manner logically connected to New Zealand\u2019s electoral cycle. To ensure that this process runs smoothly, the bill will do three things: it requires the Representation Commission to finalise boundary reviews 12 months before Parliament\u2019s expiry, it requires the commission to appoint a chairperson two years before Parliament\u2019s expiry, and it requires that electoral boundaries must be based on the most recently available census results.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill does not make changes to that underlying process for boundary reviews or the principles that sit behind that process. For example, the commission will still be required to follow the same statutory formula for calculating the electoral populations and there will still be strict rules about how many people can be in each electoral district. These are important policy settings that ensure our electoral boundaries are representative; routinely adjusted; and, most importantly of all, fair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe bill would amend provisions in the Electoral Act that are reserved or entrenched. This means that some provisions in this bill can only be passed if they receive a 75 percent majority at committee of the whole House. The Minister of Statistics and myself, on behalf of the Minister of Justice, have consulted with the political party leaders of all parties represented in this House, seeking cross-party support on these proposals. I want to thank all of those party leaders and their representatives for their constructive engagement on this bill to date. I look forward to hearing what members of the public, stakeholders, and the select committee have to say as the bill progresses through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, the boundary review process is central to the operation of New Zealand\u2019s democracy. The changes to the census require sensible, targeted changes to ensure New Zealanders continue to be equally represented and can trust that matters related to their representation in this House are routinely calculated. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002291329050b91cdba1e1db2bc8bac40ce4\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u00229dea6351ad3584acc7c9ccfdb01dc349\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dea6351ad3584acc7c9ccfdb01dc349\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central) (15:52)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I do want to note that these two bills, which are related\u2014although not strictly associated at the present time\u2014are both very important bills. There\u2019s a danger that we look at them as if they\u2019re administrative. In one sense, they are. This Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill, in particular, looks administrative. But as the Minister for Hunting and Fishing just pointed out, it\u2019s actually touching on a constitutional foundation stone that is so important that it\u2019s one of the reserved provisions\u2014or, to use slightly looser language, one of the entrenched provisions\u2014in our Electoral Act. That requires 75\u00A0percent support to proceed through all stages of this House. Obviously, something like this, we\u2019re not going to be playing politics around it. If it\u2019s the right thing to do, we\u2019ll absolutely be doing it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is, in some ways, a strange thing that we have elections on a three-yearly cycle and representation reviews on a five-yearly cycle. It can lead to some kind of strange circumstances where, when the two cycles are running together, on one part you could have a long lead-in time for boundary changes, and on another one, you can have a very short lead-in time for boundary changes, which are equally important on both occasions. So that, to us, does seem a sensible reason to do it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHaving said that, we want to also have a good look at the provisions dealing with the Representation Commission. We want to make sure that the timelines imposed by this legislation\u2014essentially, proposing that the Representation Commission call its first meeting two years out, and then resolves within 12 months\u2014are an appropriate length of time. We also want to make sure that all of those other provisions around representation are properly reflected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn terms of the process itself, that is pretty well established by now. There are some tweaks around the membership of the Representation Commission. I think it\u2019s important that we have a good look at that. The other thing is, of course, how it impacts on M\u0101ori electorates and the M\u0101ori roll. That\u2019s something, again, which deserves very close examination. I would implore members of the public\u2014both those who have specialist knowledge in this area and those who have a more general view of what\u2019s going on\u2014that they do submit on this bill, because it\u2019s an important part of our constitutional infrastructure. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs has been noted, it\u2019s tied with the census legislation. Whilst members of the Governance and Administration Committee may think that we\u2019re an expansionist committee in the Justice Committee, I think it is appropriate that they be heard together, because that\u2019s the other thing to note: that in terms of the electoral boundary reviews, we need a high degree of confidence that the information we\u2019re getting from data and Statistics New Zealand is accurate. That\u2019s why these two bills are aligned together. But at the same time, we need to hear from statisticians and people who are experts in the area of data research that that\u2019s an effective way to go about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn short, we\u2019re happy to see this go to select committee, make sure that it\u2019s actually going to work, and essentially make sure that what we do see coming out of the representation process are electorates which properly reflect their populations, with a process which is fair to all parties, and essentially done in a way which is both timely and effective. That\u2019s the job that the Justice Committee has before it, and I look forward to embarking upon that journey together.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022 data-id=\u0022044c11ac629162bdcfd10e9b5e4452e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022044c11ac629162bdcfd10e9b5e4452e8\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) (15:56)\u003C/span\u003E: T\u0113n\u0101 koe. I rise to speak to this first reading of the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill. I rise with a number of concerns, some of which have been expressed. Thank you for engaging first with the leaders and then with our spokesperson regarding statistics, Mr Hernandez. I want to raise some of the issues.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, if we\u2019re going to have an administrative census, rather than the five-yearly one, then obviously we do have to decouple the boundary reviews from that process. We are not convinced that there are good reasons to have chosen every second election, rather than a couple of other possibilities. One is every election. You tie it in so peoples\u2019 expectations are\u2014as well as checking their enrolment details, they know that there\u2019s going to be an opportunity to look at the boundaries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe counter to that is, of course, there are some communities that are popping in and out of electorates. For example, the Ashhurst community that may look to Palmerston North in many ways, but is actually currently in Rangit\u012Bkei and will become part of the glorious Wairarapa electorate, where they are very welcome. But we do need to make sure, above all, that our electorates have similar weights. I am concerned that over what would be, basically, a six-yearly adjustment, places like Tauranga and Hamilton are growing really, really fast, and so are the changes in the number of people living in the M\u0101ori electorates. So I am concerned.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s also interesting to reflect on what is casually called the \u201Centrenchment provision\u201D, where, to get these bills through, there has to be 75 percent agreement. The M\u0101ori seats that were first created in the 1860s, their existence is not entrenched at this level. That\u2019s the sort of reason that my colleague H\u016Bhana Lyndon is introducing a bill to say, \u201CLook, that is part of how this country runs. It should not be tampered with unless you\u2019ve got a 75 percent majority.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other issue that has potentially made a really big difference to the coming election are the changes to electoral enrolment, and the fact that that now has to be done 13 days earlier. That is a really big change but that didn\u2019t need 75 percent majority; in my view it should have done. The electoral review panel\u2014I\u2019m not quite sure I agree with them but it was the other option\u2014instead of doing it three-yearly with every election, recommended sticking to the five-yearly frequency, although I have to say aligning it with the electoral cycle does make more sense, just not skipping it out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also have considerable concerns about not being able to have updates before the 2029 election. We think it\u2019s surprising that the statistics were not able to be gathered in time for that. I would also like to quote from the previous very interesting article and comment in Newsroom where Len Cook, the previous Government Statistician\u2014first of all, he does somewhat rail against ditching the regular censuses but also he talks about how changing statistical mesh blocks will now be a much bigger statistical area, and he goes into things that are beyond my mathematical knowledge, like multidimensional cross-tabulations of people, which sounds like a way of actually getting data that will be a good basis for decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think it would be well worth the Justice Committee actually asking the previous statistician to come in and speak to the committee; hopefully, he will anyway. Thank you; my time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022edab9a5fbd8f6b1a6878b04fd7ece590\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022edab9a5fbd8f6b1a6878b04fd7ece590\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (16:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Well, it\u2019s good to be standing and having another contribution on behalf of this side of the House and the ACT Party on reforms and improvements being made to a census and electoral system. You know, these boundary reviews should be lining up with a parliamentary term; it makes complete sense. When we\u2019re doing a census\u2014unlike that family that I spoke about earlier in this contribution who travelled across Judea to get to Bethlehem to be counted in the census\u2014Tauranga and Mount Maunganui are having a boundary change. I can inform the good people of Judea in Tauranga, and Bethlehem in Tauranga, that their boundaries are not changing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u0022ab4926e44f8a5849afd81e0ffbc249b4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ab4926e44f8a5849afd81e0ffbc249b4\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (16:02)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak in support of what is a common-sense bill. It\u2019s a common-sense bill because of the bill that we\u2019ve been considering just before this\u2014the other one which is going to change the way in which we collect our census\u2014and, currently, of course, the boundary reviews are very much tied to the census, which happens every five years, which of course doesn\u2019t align with the time frame that we have for a three-year electoral cycle. That might become four years, but it still doesn\u2019t align with that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat means what we have now is a census which will be collected in a different way. That census will be able to be collected every year, and so it makes it possible\u2014much, much more possible, but does make it possible\u2014to be able to align the new electoral boundaries with census data, because that census data will be collected annually rather than every five years. To me, that is just a common-sense approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut I just wanted to reflect just very, very quickly on why we\u2019ve got ourselves in this situation because there\u2019s been a number of people\u2014and I\u2019ve got a history background in terms of one of my degrees. The census is an important piece of historical data; yes, it is. It\u2019s something which we\u2019ve collected for a very, very long period of time. But it\u2019s become more and more expensive and more and more difficult to collect because more and more people are less inclined to cooperate, which means that the quality of the data then becomes poorer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just wanted to alert you to, as part of the Governance and Administration Committee\u2014which is obviously going to be slightly sidestepped with this piece of legislation\u2014we did have a really good discussion yesterday as part of the long-term insights briefing from the Public Service Commission, and that was all about integrity; all about integrity of the Public Service and the level of trust in the public sector. I think that is one of the reasons that\u2019s being put down when we\u2019ve also had Stats NZ in front of us. They put that down; a lowering level of trust\u2014and this is across the Western world\u2014in Governments is one of the reasons that less people participate in the census and it becomes harder to get that census data and it becomes more expensive to get that census data. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIntegrity, censuses, and elections, in this case, all go together. I think that this is a common-sense approach and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022 data-id=\u0022ee376e4b1860776859d8cb87aa4e62ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ee376e4b1860776859d8cb87aa4e62ad\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori) (16:05)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to take a call on this particular bill and can absolutely, categorically say that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori do not support this bill. It is another form of voter suppression in terms of M\u0101ori representation in this House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t allow for the boundary changes in the M\u0101ori seats. What it does is it restricts the ability to have our M\u0101ori seats counted. Now, let me just paint the picture for you: the M\u0101ori electorates are the biggest electorates in the country. They usually have between five and 10 general electorates inside of them. The Te Tai Tonga one is absolutely\u2014as we know, it is the biggest electorate in the Southern Hemisphere. So what you\u2019ve got is that in order to make up general electorates, you need 69,000 people. In order to make up the M\u0101ori electorates you need 75,000 people, right? You need 75,000 people, absolutely. Well, there are general electorates here that are made up of 69,000 people but M\u0101ori are expected to have 75,000, right? Across seven seats, that\u2019s another 35,000 people we have to find in order to participate, right?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESince 2023, there\u2019s been 14,000 more M\u0101ori enrolled on the M\u0101ori roll. That\u2019s 303,000 M\u0101ori on the M\u0101ori roll. M\u0101ori on the M\u0101ori roll now out-populate M\u0101ori on the general roll. There is an eighth seat waiting there right now, and if this House had adopted my member\u2019s bill in the first term, we wouldn\u2019t have this problem because of my member\u2019s bill; it said that those boundaries should be changed every election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a judicial process at the moment in regard to that particular decision because they took that decision based on 2024 data. After the h\u012Bkoi, absolutely, there is a huge influx of M\u0101ori on the M\u0101ori roll and there is an eighth seat right there. On current trajectory, by 2029, M\u0101ori will have nine to 10 seats, if we take the trajectory of the increased membership on the M\u0101ori roll.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just have to look at the fact that 70 percent of te iwi M\u0101ori are 40 years and younger; 50 percent of that number are 25 years and younger. You\u2019ll have 38,000 rangatahi enrolling on to the M\u0101ori roll, come this next election. These are some of the numbers that are not considered in this particular bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe absolutely, categorically, can hand-on-heart say we do not support this bill. Why? Because of voter suppression for M\u0101ori. It did the same in the Electoral Amendment Act that you move. Seventy-five percent of this House have to agree to this. Now, I turn to these other parties\u2014to the other parties here in this House\u2014and the M\u0101ori MPs in those parties: who, in this House and the parties, would support this to ensure that the 75 percent threshold is met? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you support this bill that suppresses M\u0101ori vote\u2014and I\u2019m talking to every party in this House\u2014then you have a cheek to stand in the M\u0101ori seats; the absolute cheek. You have an absolute cheek to stand in the M\u0101ori seats if you support this bill, because this bill continues to suppress M\u0101ori voters. We are the fastest-growing, maturing voter in this country\u2019s democracy\u2014in this country\u2019s democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat will happen here is this is the biggest threat to those backbenchers in National who will see this as their last term in Government because M\u0101ori will be deciding who the next Prime Minister is. M\u0101ori will be deciding who the next Prime Minister is. It will be the M\u0101ori electorates; all the numbers are telling you this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a364c7873954dcc1231a1479b1560fe\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can the member come back to this bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a147f89c69b7f764c172385697c0c66\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: It is absolutely to do with this particular issue, Madam Speaker: these boundary changes\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df3e6766443b46819410ad4fedf34077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ec89aeee1f891e21ca912abed649d85\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: Can you speak up a bit?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e87e90ca507c39caa6077842f5c6ed9\u0022\u003ERAWIRI WAITITI\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014do affect the numbers. Get a hearing aid! This is the position of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, and you\u2019ve got to take all the numbers in order to participate in this conversation. You cannot just take it from this [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Epicks up a paper]\u003C/span\u003E\u2014it\u2019s tied to the statistics stuff and the data stuff that you just talked about in the last bill. It\u2019s tied to this one; it\u2019s all part of the same agenda. That is to make sure you suppress M\u0101ori voters, and that is to make sure that M\u0101ori are not deciding who the next Prime Minister is come 7\u00A0November, but I can assure you that all M\u0101ori will start to migrate on to that M\u0101ori roll and they will be making the decisions come 7 November. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u0022c3b4c1c9c245269e801f99635895f191\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c3b4c1c9c245269e801f99635895f191\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui) (16:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. On a lighter note, I\u2019d like to take the opportunity to welcome the 5,200-odd voters that will be joining the wonderful Whanganui electorate at this year\u2019s election. When we think about new people moving boundaries, moving electorates, needing to understand what electorate they are part of, and connecting with it, having two terms in an electorate before there\u2019s another boundary change and anything there happens makes sense. I think, therefore I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffdb76963fb6274acf02032461f238f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffdb76963fb6274acf02032461f238f3\u0022\u003EHon GINNY ANDERSEN (Labour) (16:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call on this bill. This bill is important, as we\u2019ve mentioned, and it is a good change to make sure there\u2019s an alignment from the five-yearly review that previously existed and was tied to the census date. The main reason why this is a good idea is it means that representation reviews, when they occur, and various dates associated with them will be set at regular and predictable interval periods\u2014and that\u2019s really important\u2014rather than depending on where a five-year census is and where the three-year electoral cycle is. Aligning those two different cycles is a good move.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have had an element of caution in looking at this bill. The new proposed approach to the census, as a concept of a reference date rather than a census day, is that this will be used as part of the electoral approach, but those two bills are quite different and distinct. It\u2019s important to note that we do have some concerns about the way that the census will be changed, the efficacy of the new census approach, and its ability to capture all New Zealanders. We know that this is especially the case for some of those hard-to-reach populations by the fact that, sometimes, it\u2019s difficult to capture that data. For a small country like New Zealand, it\u2019s really important that we do have accurate data in order to have the most inclusive democracy we possibly can. It\u2019s also important to have that detailed information because that is the one source where we get information such as homelessness. When we\u2019re having ongoing debates about that issue, it is actually the source of the census that enables us to have very accurate information. We\u2019re quite reluctant to not fully fund the census and not have it operating in a way where we get good quality data about what is actually going on in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs has already been mentioned, this bill changes entrenched provisions in the Electoral Act, and that is the reason why we need more than half of the House to be supporting it. Those specific changes include amending the definition of \u201Cgeneral election population\u201D and section 35. Both of those are reserved for provisions that require a 75 percent majority of all members in this House to pass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe heard from the previous speaker, Rawiri Waititi, that there are some boundary changes happening this election, and we know it\u2019s really important that New Zealanders are clear about what\u2019s happening there. In my own area, we have a large part of Newlands coming into the Hutt South area, and I know that there are a number of public servants who have lost their jobs over the previous years, so we\u2019ll be connecting with those people and talking to them about the kind of future they could see under a Labour Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill also makes two-term reviews work, and there are a number of other provisions. The Representation Commission is required to complete each review no later, I think, than 12 months before the expiry of a parliamentary term in which a review is due. This bill also replaces the definition of \u201Ccounting day\u201D with \u201Creference date\u201D, which defaults to 30 June of each year. It also extends the deadline for the commission to report and publish the names and boundaries of electoral districts by four months for the first periodic division after commencement\u2014from the 12 months to eight months before the parliamentary term expires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe think this is a good, practical change, and it\u2019s important that there is alignment, instead of having two different cycles. That is the key reason why we support this bill, and I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u002238c914b9889ce93bc41f9017870d17c6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002238c914b9889ce93bc41f9017870d17c6\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (16:15)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a great pleasure to rise to speak on the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill in this first reading. The purpose of this bill is to align the policy setting in the Electoral Act with the Government\u2019s work to modernise the census\u2014the census, of course, being every five years. We\u2019re changing that every year. The electoral boundary changes are tied to the census. We don\u2019t want to end up doing it every year, so this tidies up that part. It makes the logical link between the boundary reviews and the electoral cycle. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022 data-id=\u002273ad6a6c7539a3b3b654b09e9db9f0e8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226f607d4079164946af0eb589f5753d1b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002273ad6a6c7539a3b3b654b09e9db9f0e8\u0022\u003EVANUSHI WALTERS (Labour) (16:15)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Like colleagues on this side of the House\u2014some of this side of the House\u2014I rise to commend this bill through to its next stage. A number of people have referenced the connection between the two bills, and I do think that\u2019s an important thing to speak to, but I did just want to start by reflecting on where I live. I\u2019m one of the West Auckland - based MPs, and there\u2019s been significant change in terms of boundaries for that side of Auckland as we head towards the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think what was interesting for me as I\u2019ve been engaging with parts of the community in Waitakere is just how long it takes for a community to understand that the boundaries have changed. There certainly isn\u2019t at all, really, a sense of the significance of that for part of the electorate, so I think having more of a methodology to when it happens and letting it embed makes a lot of sense. I do think we just need to be cautious of the fact that should we ever move to a four-year term, we may want to revisit whether the two-term cycle is the best way for us to invoke boundary changes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll just comment on the sister bill as well, because I agree with the Hon Dr Duncan Webb that it makes sense for both bills to come to the Justice Committee. It\u2019s really through the resolution of the issues with the first bill that will open the door for this one to be able to pass. In October 2025, there was a paper produced that, essentially, looked at how well the administrative data does against the census data. It was a bit of an experimental test to see how well it compares, and the results were not too bad. However, they did point to second-layer data as being a potential issue. When people respond to the higher-level categories, that was fairly accurate, but those second-level categories are quite difficult to get right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have the privilege of being the patron to the Deafblind Association, and one of the things they commented on frequently at their meetings is how difficult it is to source data on the issues of the deafblind community, because often it isn\u2019t even collected well in the census as it is. The move from some parts of our community is to going more granular, and I do think that this may cause concern for some of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn another personal reflection for me in terms of self-identification versus administrative identity, I recall registering my children at the local GP and writing down both \u201CNew Zealand European\u201D and, actually, \u201COther Asian\u201D, which for those who tick that category frequently will know what I mean. The very helpful administrative assistant there said to me, \u201CNo, you need to choose one, and you need to choose what your children look like.\u201D I think we do need to acknowledge that there are layers within administration that can filter how data plays out and how we see it as well, so I hope we do view this, in some ways, as an experiment because, of course, it is important that we get our data right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs the Hon Dr Duncan Webb has said, these are bills of real constitutional significance and, of course, one of our reserved provisions. I did just want to note to Government members that we are absolutely going into this, examining the questions, being open to supporting the bill, and we\u2019d gently encourage Government members to be open to, at some stage, exploring other reserved provisions, including the vote of ageing\u2014the voting age; ha, ha! \u201CThe vote of ageing\u201D; the age for voting; there we go; we got there; the age for voting\u2014which is another one of the few restricted provisions. I think, sometimes, having the entrenched provisions there means that we can disregard those questions, so please do, at some stage, turn your minds there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also constitutionally significant, because, while local boundaries are important to local identity and choosing your MP, they\u2019re also important to macro democracy. As we\u2019ve seen in several parliaments, depending on who wins those electoral seats, it can result in an overhung Parliament, as it did in 2005, 2008, 2011, 2014, and, of course, this one as well. So huge constitutional significance.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to robust discussions as we invite the views of submitters to the wonderful and diligent Justice Committee. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u0022fcf66cf3bcf63067dab3750d4dfcfe9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fcf66cf3bcf63067dab3750d4dfcfe9c\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (16:20)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a pleasure to support this bill and to take the opportunity, as my colleague Carl Bates did, to welcome the 4,100 constituents that are moving from the Upper Harbour electorate to the great electorate of Northcote: welcome. I have doorknocked every street in that new part, and I can confirm it\u2019s very diverse and very supportive of the current coalition Government. So thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill provides practical, sensible, well-needed, and timely changes to the Electoral Act. I support this bill in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 102\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 20\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGreen Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 14; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220be816ba4ef73c1fde8aa2e667d26391\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u00220e0eb1d801f1512e399b32f4cdf47c85\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e0eb1d801f1512e399b32f4cdf47c85\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh) (16:23)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill be considered by the Justice Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Justice Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022551a8624f6da20d48cfa53ddbc2659b4\u0022\u003EInstruction to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u00221243de313106dd83ac0743f74e403f49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221243de313106dd83ac0743f74e403f49\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing) (16:24)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Justice\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Electoral (District Boundaries) Amendment Bill be reported to the House by 6 July 2026\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the motion be agreed to\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 13; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225378aa2d653d58f9d43346c701a5c15a\u0022\u003ESocial Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00224dac13bcf9e72ed7258617be8271dce9\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u00223db5cd57d73f5ba13933a8476ea87ccb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223db5cd57d73f5ba13933a8476ea87ccb\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Minister for Hunting and Fishing) (16:25)\u003C/span\u003E: on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill be now read a third time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs mentioned previously in these debates, in October 2025, the High Court found that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) was operating outside of existing legislative authority when reassessing a person\u2019s entitlement to supplementary assistance after they receive a backdated ACC payment for a past period. This decision would have meant that individuals who received backdated ACC payments were better off than those who were receiving those same payments at the time their entitlement from MSD was being assessed. These decisions highlight inconsistencies between legislation and longstanding policy, but they do not reflect the principles of a targeted welfare system that provides assistance based on need. They also create inequities across ACC recipients in the welfare system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill responds to these decisions by enacting several key changes to charge income against the period it best represents and to treat people as non-beneficiary when their backdated ACC payment reduces their benefit entitlement to zero. These changes align legislation with longstanding policy intent, removing the potential for interpretations of the law that go further than that policy intent and create inequities. They will ensure that income continues to be charged accurately against a person\u2019s entitlement and that ACC recipients continue to receive targeted and equitable support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would like to acknowledge everyone who took the time to submit on this bill, and the Social Services and Community Committee\u2019s membership, who reported back on what they heard. I\u2019m pleased to advise that as a result of this consultation, the House has agreed to make some changes to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to assure the House that this bill confers no new impact on clients or on MSD\u2019s practice. What it does is it clarifies in legislation the longstanding policy practice of MSD, both its intent and practice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt has always been the welfare system\u2019s longstanding principle that welfare support is targeted to those who need, where those needs have not been met by other sources, such as ACC compensation. MSD does this currently when a person\u2019s income reduces their main benefit to zero by considering the person a non-beneficiary, removing or reducing their eligibility for some supplementary assistance. If this happens for a past period, MSD may determine an overpayment has occurred and that a debt should be established. For a person who is in this scenario due to a backdated ACC payment, MSD may, with that person\u2019s agreement, seek a refund from ACC for any financial assistance that was overpaid for the past period that their ACC payment relates to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs mentioned last year, the High Court found that MSD is operating outside of its, at the time, existing legislative authority when reassessing a person\u2019s entitlement to supplementary assistance after they receive a backdated ACC payment for a past period. That decision creates inequities between ACC recipients based on when they received their ACC payment relative to their assessment for welfare support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses that High Court decision by amending the Social Security Act 2018 so that when a person receives a backdated ACC payment, MSD must review specified supplementary assistance granted for that past period and treat the person as a non-beneficiary if their specified benefit reduced to zero. MSD may make changes to the person\u2019s entitlement as part of this review. This is an important amendment to ensure that ACC recipients continue to be treated equitably and that support remains targeted to those whose needs have not been met by other sources, such as ACC compensation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECharging income against this period it best represents has been a longstanding policy in the welfare system across subsequent and consequential Governments. It ensures that a person\u2019s income is charged accurately against their entitlement, and this is important as people can receive income that relates to different periods for many, many reasons. MSD currently does this by charging income over the period that it best represents, which is generally the period that the person earned or became entitled to the income, or, when this is unidentifiable, the period it was received, and in doing so, MSD may find that overpayments have occurred and a recoverable debt should be established. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, in 2024 the Social Security Appeal Authority found that MSD did not consider all the relevant factors when exercising its discretion to determine the correct period to charge income. This decision impacts the way all income is treated in the welfare system, and it does not align with the principles of how income is charged in the welfare system in practice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Social Security Act so that when calculating a person\u2019s weekly income which includes ACC income, MSD must determine the period the income relates to based only on the extent to which that person earned or became entitled to it in that period, and if this is not possible, MSD must determine the appropriate period to charge that income, having regard to the period for which it was received, acquired, paid, provided, or supplied. This is an important change to ensure that income continues to be charged accurately for the many people who receive income that relates to different periods. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill enacts changes with prospective and retrospective effect. This is not standard, and we acknowledge that. However, it addresses the important public interest for this longstanding policy intent to be accurately reflected in the law and to mitigate any flow-on financial and operational impacts. I want to reassure members of this House and the public that this retrospective legislation does not interfere with previous or ongoing litigation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs a result of the select committee process, we have proposed a change to the bill. Currently, the savings provision in the bill only captures individuals who have lodged an appeal with the Social Security Appeal Authority or courts prior to the date of its introduction. We have proposed to now capture individuals who have made an application to MSD for a review of a decision by a benefits review committee that has not yet been decided before the date of introduction. This ensures that all individuals who are actively seeking a review of their decision prior to the introduction of this bill will be treated in accordance with the decision of the appeal authority and the High Court. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn conclusion\u2014and at my own peril\u2014I would like to thank Labour and Willie Jackson for his collegiality on this bill. With that, I\u2019d like to commend it to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225d18a7840c14189426efa7da76fbed69\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022e67464ad6484992ab794ebf503de2f9d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e67464ad6484992ab794ebf503de2f9d\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) (16:32)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can I first of all thank the Minister for Social Development and Employment, too, for making a real attempt, we thought, to find a way through this bill where we could perhaps have supported the Government, but by the end of the select committee process, it was made very clear to us that that could not be the case. So it was with disappointment that we were unable to find a way through, because having a bipartisan approach on something on this is, I think, incredibly important, but it just wasn\u2019t to be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe had a couple of meetings with the Minister where we put up some options in terms of where we should go, particularly with regard to some of the people who were being hurt by this bill, and I have to say that she was particularly sympathetic to some of the examples that we were giving. But it seems that her officials found it all just too impossible, and I\u2019m not sure why they find it so impossible sometimes to actually work things through, given these are officials who work with both National and Labour Governments through the years. But it was with some disappointment that we were not able to reach a resolution, because we have people who are suffering because of this legislation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI will say that through the select committee process, as short as it was, there was a lot of unanimity in terms of the select committee. Even the ACT people were showing some humanity, and so I was quite taken by that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd40bfee619c78cc1ec418394f8d0661\u0022\u003ECameron Luxton\u003C/span\u003E: I don\u2019t know why you\u2019d be shocked\u2014you must have your eyes closed most of the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022266e4a448badd9d596fdd4bca19339c8\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Now and then, they shock us, but we were united in our view in terms of the unfairness of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238e2fb860df20bf79a73cc418c1bc528\u0022\u003EGlen Bennett\u003C/span\u003E: Right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002233c3037b351519a85f59850f525e22b0\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, absolutely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour agrees, though, that the closing of a double-dipping loophole in welfare is important, because we, like everyone, know that Kiwis must feel confident in our welfare system and, obviously, don\u2019t end up resenting institutions, and so we support ensuring that all Kiwis have faith in the process. We get it. We hear them out there in terms of there being that response about people rorting the system, and so we support the values at play because those values matter very much to us in Labour. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut it\u2019s important to say today that we will not only be voting against this bill but we denounce this bill\u2014we denounce what\u2019s happening, at the end of the day. It\u2019s unacceptable to drop debt on to our sickest and our most disabled Kiwis all because ACC can\u2019t process claims fast enough, and my colleague Camilla Belich will give some numbers with regard to that because there were a lot of questions about that. These people\u2014they\u2019re not criminals; they\u2019re Kiwis who are forced on to welfare because ACC are taking so long in terms of processing their claims. To now turn around and dump those sick and injured Kiwis with huge debt without building into that policy isn\u2019t welfare; it\u2019s actually cruelty. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not just our sick and disabled being hit here; it\u2019s also the victims of terrible crimes who are about to get debt dumped on them. These are Kiwis who, through no fault of their own, have been victims of terrible crimes and who have had to go on welfare while their sensitive claims are being heard. Turning around and now dumping debt on those people is unfair and is something, certainly, that our party\u2014Labour\u2014will not tolerate, and, certainly, we received a lot of advice from community law groups and people out there who made it very clear that we shouldn\u2019t tolerate it. We were never going to tolerate it, but we needed to go through the process. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe pushed for an amendment that would give the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) the discretion to wipe the debt if the enforcement would cause hardship, alongside writing it off for sensitive claims, and, as I said at the start of my k\u014Drero today, MSD found it impossible to write in a discretion clause. I\u2019m not sure why they found it impossible, because there are lots of smart lawyers\u2014there\u2019s a number of them here\u2014and I\u2019m sure you could have written in something with regard to not causing precedent, or put some rules in around it, but, apparently, it was impossible to write in a discretion clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMany people would have agreed to taking welfare while their claim was being heard without realising that they were going to have to pay it back. Now, for those Kiwis who are wealthy enough to pay it back, they should pay it back. There will also be those who simply are in no position to pay this debt back, and enforcing it, obviously, could cause serious hardship. So in those cases, surely, there should be a discretion to write the debt off. I felt that our Social Services and Community Committee understood that, but it was let down by officials who were unable to come up with a discretion clause. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Government have refused to accept the amendment. Instead of a policy that had some sort of flexibility when dealing with the disabled and those hurt by serious crime, it seems they want a punishment model in order to claw back funds from the poorest amongst us, and that\u2019s not justice. That actually amounts to punishment, and I have to say that that is the difference between, I suppose, the two groups in Parliament today. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a difference between Labour and National on this issue. We stand for a flexible social policy that helps, whereas, sadly, National and this coalition Government simply want to stick and to bash those who can\u2019t fight back. That\u2019s the feeling and that\u2019s the response we\u2019re getting from people and the communities out there. It\u2019s not the claimant\u2019s fault that ACC takes so long to process those claims. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor those fortunate enough to have the money to pay it back, they should, but those who are desperate to begin with won\u2019t be helped by loading up debts on them now. I take into account some of the amendments from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and Oriini Kaipara, who was talking, quite rightly, about principles\u2014Treaty principles\u2014talking about partnership, talking about consultation with M\u0101ori, who are, without doubt, going to be the most affected here. Those amendments, of course, were thrown out, but it is only right and only just to put those types of arguments up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe wanted to be helpful with this bill. We accept the need and we hear the constant k\u014Drero of double-dipping, which is offensive to a lot of the people out there when they hear that, and the importance of the welfare system to be seen as fair for all those paying into it\u2014we get all the arguments. I think after we traversed it and went through it, it is the wrong type of branding. National\u2019s solution to claw back funds from our sickest and poorest alongside those hurt by violent crime is just, without doubt, a bridge too far. The policy will end up hurting people who can\u2019t afford any more pain, to simply enforce a principle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe reality is, and we\u2019ve had this said in the House many times, court decisions have to be respected\u2014have to be respected. The courts are not wrong to realise that people are getting hurt. That was the principle of the court\u2019s findings. It was very clear that they saw that groups of people were not going to be in a position to be able to pay back debts. We had to, rather than look at changing totally what was happening with the court, find a way through. We felt that we were able to attach a level of flexibility that the coalition Government were not interested in embracing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou can\u2019t criminalise people. You can\u2019t chase solo mothers who are just busy looking after their tamariki and wh\u0101nau. You actually have to stand by them and provide a welfare system that helps, heals, and grows self-resilience. You\u2019ve got to help individuals stand on their own two feet; you can\u2019t constantly go after them. Sadly, that\u2019s what we\u2019re doing with the passing of this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor us\u2014and we\u2019ve said it many times\u2014National stands for a welfare system that punches down and makes people too fearful to ask for help in the first place; our Labour Party does not. We will continue to support the people in the communities, and we absolutely oppose this bill. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u002223a312c33bd52fb6c94d30d2b951613a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223a312c33bd52fb6c94d30d2b951613a\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (16:42)\u003C/span\u003E: Almost 40,000 people have been unlawfully burdened with debts as a result of a practice that has carried on by both National and Labour Governments through decades. You would be mistaken, if you heard the Minister\u2019s contributions at the third reading, for thinking this was some boring bill that is just simply entrenching existing practice, because what has the Minister refused to acknowledge? That out of those almost 40,000 people, those that have had the largest debts to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) while waiting for support from ACC include survivors of sexual violence. They include survivors of abuse in care. They include people who have had to deal with traumatic head injuries. Yet we\u2019ve got a Government that has refused to acknowledge this\u2014that has refused to acknowledge and honour the dignity of people who have been failed by a system that does not believe sexual violence survivors; that does not recognise that unlike someone who may have had an injury from a rugby game, sexual violence survivors often have to go through a lengthy, often retraumatising process to get their ACC claims. The longer that process is, the larger the debt, the larger the penalty, the larger the punishment that was found to be unlawful by the High Court.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EInstead of taking a moment to look at themselves in the mirror and recognise that this unlawful practice was wrong, what did the Government do? Introduce a bill in urgency, rush it through the select committee with a one-week period, refuse to hear members of the public, and only invite a handful of organisations\u2014not even engage during the select committee process with ACC. We had to seek a briefing outside of the select committee process of this bill to even find out and have a glimpse of who this bill is affecting. The Minister in charge of this bill has even refused to openly acknowledge that out of the glimpse of information that we received from the select committee, the sample that was given to us on those ACC claims, the large majority often were sexual violence survivors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow can this be a bill about fairness and equity when it entrenches a practice that puts some of our most injured and traumatised people in large debt? This Government may be making it legal, but it does not make it right. This is why we need a Government that actually looks after people who are injured, sexual violence survivors, and abuse in care survivors, as opposed to pretending that burdening them with large debts after going through a traumatising process is about fairness and equity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe ACC system is not built with fairness or equity to begin with. We\u2019ve been told for decades about the inequities that exist on gender and ethnic lines, or how somebody who gets injured at a sports game gets support really readily, while people who have birth injuries, people who have survived sexual violence, often have to endure a lengthy and traumatising process to get the support that they need, only to find that they will have huge debts that come from the recouping and the clawback of support that they needed at the time, like the disability allowance, temporary additional support, and the accommodation supplement. These supports are not there because people just want them; they are there because people need them to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you heard the speech from the Minister, you would be none the wiser about any of this, because she has refused to acknowledge the lived realities of the very same people this bill is affecting and the unlawful practice that this bill is legalising.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am shocked that in the first reading, we had members from the Opposition, in fact, calling people out as if they were engaging in double-dipping as opposed to acknowledging that they were people that were simply trying to make ends meet. We deserve so much better than this process. The people who fought at the High Court to get this outcome deserve so much better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to give a shout-out to Community Law Centres Aotearoa and welfare advocates across the country who managed to fight at the High Court level and win and prove that this practice was unlawful. But their point wasn\u2019t just about recognising that the Government was out of step with the law. The point was to prove that this practice was harming people. People don\u2019t go through a lengthy High Court process with sexual violence survivors simply to make a point. They go through this process to seek a level of justice. When I hear members of the Government talk about this bill as if it brings any level of equity, all I see is people who are completely out of touch, who are completely out of their depth, and who are refusing to engage with the substance of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know that there were members of the Government side in the select committee who I could tell understood\u2014understood the harm that this bill was causing. I know that there were members of the Government who understood the unfairness of this bill. I could see members of the Government nodding when we were getting told openly about the harm that this policy causes in sexual violence survivors. I know that they\u2019re not ignorant to the harm that this bill is causing, and it is not too late for members and parties in the Government who know that the current bill, as it is, is unfair and it harms people who need our support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the countless sexual violence survivors who took their time to write to the select committee, despite having only two days to do so. I acknowledge that putting yourself out in the public record in this way can be retraumatising, but I acknowledge that no one would do it if they didn\u2019t feel strongly about this bill and they didn\u2019t feel strongly about sexual violence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPeople who put themselves forward recognised that the current practice, legal or otherwise, was wrong. To make people go through sometimes years-long battles to get the rehabilitation and the counselling that they need to recover from sexual violence or abuse in care, only to be slapped with sometimes tens of thousands of dollars\u2019 worth of debt that either comes out of your ACC back payments or gets put as a weekly repayment that comes out of your weekly income is wrong and it undermines people\u2019s ability to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo pretend that this is about equity ignores that the support that someone receives from MSD cannot be compared to the support you receive from ACC when it comes to rehabilitation. I know many members of the Government side know this quite clearly because of the constituency work they do or because they have seen the submissions from experts on this bill. They surely must know that this is wrong, but then I ask: \u201CWhy support this, none the less, if you know that some of the people most impacted are people who have undergone some of the most serious and deepest trauma anyone could ever go through in their whole lifetime?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the committee of the whole House stage, we indeed also tried to put forward amendments to minimise the harm that this bill was causing, to exclude sexual violence survivors and abuse in care survivors, people who were victims of crimes, people who would be put into hardship as a result of this. I don\u2019t put the blame on officials for ruling these out of scope; I simply don\u2019t buy it: if the Minister genuinely believed that sexual violence survivors and abuse in care survivors or victims of crime should be excluded from this bill, she could have sought out-of-scope amendments through the Business Committee. There are tools available to Ministers to try and put out-of-scope amendments when they realise and they have evidence in front of them of the inequities and the harm that this bill is causing. It did not have to be this way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a horrendous and gruesome practice that has gone on for far too long. To pretend that this is just a simple tidy-up ignores the harm that has been caused for decades\u2014the harm that has been entrenched that prevents survivors of sexual violence from coming forward and seeking support. I can see why people would feel that coming forward to ask for support would only result in you being financially undermined. This is why the Greens are going to continue to fight for a welfare system that leaves everyone better off, that allows people to live in dignity, and an ACC system that becomes an agency of comprehensive care\u2014that believes sexual violence survivors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is not too late for Government parties to vote this down. I know they know that this is wrong. I know they know that sexual violence survivors are most inequitably harmed by this bill. I urge them to not pretend that this is just tidying up existing practice that was found unlawful. They know this practice causes harm to people who need our support. The Green Party will be fighting every step of the way to abolish this practice and restore dignity to survivors.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022 data-id=\u0022652105f87a0d46ec9461ab0649a79904\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022652105f87a0d46ec9461ab0649a79904\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT) (16:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m taking this call on behalf of ACT to support the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill in its third reading.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn that speech that we just heard, one point the member Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March was making was about how it\u2019s being rushed. Yes, it\u2019s a very important issue. We have to, otherwise we will not be doing justice to those who are going to be affected, because, as days go by, there will be more and more people who will be affected. So we want to make sure of the impact of this\u2014that the policy is there, but also the way it is intended to deliver; if it is not delivering, we want to minimise the impact of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second point the member makes is that somehow some people should be excluded from the intention of the policy. The member thinks that it\u2019s OK if the policy doesn\u2019t deliver on its intent. No, on this side, we are not that irresponsible. We are responsible members of Parliament here. And if we see, we identify; we have seen that the policy has been interpreted differently, so it is our responsibility to fix it, and we are fixing it through this legislation. So that\u2019s why this is an important bill. Already, the Minister has spoken about the background to this bill and already described what this bill does, so I won\u2019t take too much of the House\u2019s time. We support this bill and commend this bill to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1171c89865d988925be4af70fb6252a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1171c89865d988925be4af70fb6252a\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (16:54)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise as spokesperson for ACC for New Zealand First. I ironically thought, having taught politics at university, that this is the type of bill that could be included in a stage 3 politics course, because it is not easy. I think we\u2019d be fair to say that our party has wrestled with some of the issues here quite a lot.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, first of all, I\u2019d just like to say I admire the thought and consideration of all parties on this bill. It\u2019s a shame that we were not able to reach consensus. I heard from our colleagues that it\u2019s a targeted welfare system, with no impacts on claimants, and clients will not get less under this amendment, and we take them at their word. We also saw that Amendment Paper 528, that came through today from the Minister for Social Development and Employment, has a number of things in it that we supported.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe want to ensure that any complainants to ACC are not unfairly disadvantaged\u2014that\u2019s where we stand. I also heard from the honourable Camilla Belich that sensitive claims made up 65 percent of the proportion of people that will be under this amendment; and of those, also 70 percent were women. I also heard that the Ministry of Social Development had discretion to look at these cases, and we support that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to end with these things: New Zealand First\u2019s primary principles in trying to judge this are justice and fairness. We would like to say that New Zealand First do not want any undue hardship or material hardship as a result of these changes; however, we support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u0022563e46ef6cfbbfb94623bfef6bd91008\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022563e46ef6cfbbfb94623bfef6bd91008\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (16:56)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of T\u0101maki Makaurau and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to once again oppose this bill. From the outset, our position has been very clear: this bill will deepen hardship for survivors of abuse, for survivors of sexual violence and abuse, and for those who suffer most in all of Aotearoa. We also oppose this bill because it represents a profound breach of justice, fairness, and the Crown\u2019s obligations to protect the wellbeing of wh\u0101nau under Te Tiriti o Waitangi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut the way in which the Government has chosen to respond raises serious questions about fairness, proportionality, and trust in the system. The accident compensation scheme was built on a simple promise, and that is: if you are injured, the State will stand beside you, not on top of you. It was never meant to be a system where people often, years later, find themselves caught in administrative recalculations that could reopen settled matters or create new uncertainty about their financial position. That is the risk many submitters warned us about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know now that the practical effect of this bill could fall hardest on those most vulnerable around our country, and almost 37,500 will be affected. Who are they? Well, we asked repeatedly, and the answers always fell short of satisfactory. It was only yesterday that we learnt through ACC\u2014who managed to collate 50 current claims to try to give us a clear picture of who will be affected most by this bill\u201465 percent of that sample size are sensitive claims of a serious nature, including sexual abuse and violence. This bill will also impact those recovering from injury, largely M\u0101ori, people navigating multiple systems at once, and those who simply trusted that when a matter was resolved, it was resolved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor M\u0101ori, those risks are not abstract. M\u0101ori are overrepresented in injury statistics, overrepresented among those experiencing economic hardship, and overrepresented among those navigating both ACC and income support systems at the same time. When policy settings shift in ways that create complexity or potential debt, it is our communities who tend to feel that pressure first and most sharply. That is why many of us argued that if legislative change was required, it should have been clearly prospective in effect, not retrospective, providing certainty for the future, rather than revisiting the past. It is about making mokopuna decisions and being a good tipuna today. Protect our future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut the reality before us today is that this bill proceeds largely unchanged. That is really disappointing, because good lawmaking should not only fix illegal interpretation; it should also protect the integrity of the social contract between the State and the people it serves, and, in particular, M\u0101ori, as partners to Te Tiriti o Waitangi. If people believe that decisions affecting their entitlements can be revisited years later, confidence in the system\u2014confidence in the system\u2014begins to erode. It\u2019s eroded. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EN\u0101wai i h\u0113 k\u0101tahi ka tino h\u0113 k\u0113 atu\u003C/span\u003E\u2014from bad to worse. That is a saying that is being said right across the motu amongst M\u0101ori who fear this bill is going to impact them the most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor the people I represent in T\u0101maki Makaurau, the question is always simple: will this change make life more stable for wh\u0101nau navigating injury, hardship, trauma, PTSD; or will it add another layer of uncertainty? Too many submitters told us that it risks the latter. Despite those concerns, the Government has chosen to move forward with minimal change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor our part, we will continue to advocate for M\u0101ori, for the vulnerable communities, and for a system that treats people with dignity, treats people with mana, protects them from unnecessary hardship, and honours the founding principle of ACC that when someone is injured in Aotearoa, the community stands behind them. Those principles matter. For the people of T\u0101maki Makaurau and for M\u0101ori communities across the motu and for every New Zealander who believes that fairness should remain at the heart of our social support systems, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori strongly opposes this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022 data-id=\u00221a4ce0725c3bbdea3322a75bb1fd6144\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a4ce0725c3bbdea3322a75bb1fd6144\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green) (17:01)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKia ora e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E I rise on behalf of the Green Party in total opposition to this bill, a bill that will just cause more harm coming from a Government that clearly does not care about the most vulnerable in our society. This bill is absolutely a disgrace.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat we have seen from the High Court was a decision that showed that a policy that the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) was implementing was incorrect. Just because they had been implementing it doesn\u2019t mean it was right; it doesn\u2019t mean it was just. When they looked at the cost it would force on them, of around $63 million, their decision was \u201CWe\u2019re just going to change legislation so that we can get that money.\u201D That is terrible, especially when you look at who this actually affects.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe people impacted by the decisions that are going to be made in this House today are some of the most vulnerable people in society. From a representative view of the submissions from ACC that they had a look at, it was clear that of the close to 40,000 people affected, 65 percent of them were sensitive claims\u2014survivors of sexual violence, survivors of abuse in State care\u2014and 70 percent of them were women. Like, do we not care about who we are hurting when we make these decisions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAll we hear is \u201COh, we\u2019ve got to stop the double-dipping. We\u2019ve got to fix the inequities.\u201D All you are doing is entrenching inequities by hurting the most vulnerable\u2014people who were waiting sometimes years and years and years for the ACC claim to be accepted and, while they were waiting, they were having to live on a benefit and they were having to get supplementary allowances just to survive. And then MSD wants to claw that back, which we know is against the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut this Government does not care, and so they tried to rush it through in urgency, but at least we managed to get a concession, so they took it to the Social Services and Community Committee where they had a week, and then the public only had two days to submit. What did we see? Close to 900 people making submissions; of those submissions, only two people\u2014two submitters\u2014supported this bill. But yet this Government ignores that and they ignore all the people that put their heart on paper to explain the trauma that they had been through, how they\u2019ve been retraumatised by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that there\u2019s parties within the Government coalition that are sympathetic, but yet they still vote in favour of this bill\u2014this bill that will retraumatise people, that will put people into debt for probably a lot of their life. These people have been through so much and yet, right now, we have a Government that is clearly showing that they just don\u2019t care.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t fortunate enough to be on the Social Services and Community Committee, so I had a look at a few of the submissions. I just want to quickly read one, and it was just a snapshot. It was from a victim. \u201CWhilst waiting for an ACC ruling as a single woman, I was made to try and survive on an amount from WINZ that paid my rent and left me with $30 for food and healthcare. I became severely depressed, having never relied on WINZ before, and I had no support. Eventually, money came through, but in no way did it cover my costs and trauma that I had been through. I have been a hard, professional worker my whole life, and this changed my life and caused severe trauma to me. And once I got my payment, it was pittance, and I was just trying to pay back loans.\u201D This bill is disgraceful and I oppose it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f2d1f629153b518a4d67fa140c91ec15\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f2d1f629153b518a4d67fa140c91ec15\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki) (17:06)\u003C/span\u003E: The problem I have with the Green Party is that when you\u2019re outraged about everything, you\u2019re really outraged about nothing. Every single person should get, and will get, everything they are entitled to; they just won\u2019t get it twice. But every single person will get what they\u2019re entitled to, as they should. We have an amazing welfare system. I support this bill and commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u00229ee9a1a87060d8ea35d6d580c2c04d27\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229ee9a1a87060d8ea35d6d580c2c04d27\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert) (17:07)\u003C/span\u003E: I want to take issue with the statement made by the last speaker, Tim Costley. It really concerns me that despite all of the time in this House, talking about this, the comprehension is so low about the nature of what we\u2019re doing today. So I am going to start at the beginning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you have somebody who breaks their arm\u2014if Tim Costley breaks his arm, then the accident compensation scheme kicks in without fault, and Tim Costley will receive 80\u00A0percent of his earnings; he will also receive household help because that will be helpful for him in his recovery; he will receive physio; he will receive taxis to and fro, as he needs them; there will be rehabilitation that he gets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf a woman is sexually assaulted and she goes through a process, that takes longer because it is hard to ascertain whether that is the cause of her breakdown, then she will not receive ACC compensation for the, say, five years that it takes for that claim to be sorted out, but the accident will still, then, be accepted as happening. What ACC will do is they will talk to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), and they will take any benefit she\u2019s got during that time off her. That will come out of the 80 percent of her earnings. Then they will return the rest of the money to her because the main benefit recognises any double-dipping risk. It says, \u201CNo main benefit and earnings.\u201D, that\u2019s the double-dip. But the law deals with that already. So what ACC will return to her is the remainder after any risk of double-dipping.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat then happens is that MSD treat what she has got left as a windfall income, and they take everything that they have given that woman during that time away from her, including any rehab costs, including any of the energy costs that she has spent. All those things are taken away from her. They are not taken away from Mr Costley. He\u2019s given those things if he\u2019s broken his arm. But they\u2019re taken away from the woman who suffers the sexual assault. She pays for her own rehabilitation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe only people who benefit out of this are the State. The State doesn\u2019t have to pay in its ACC scheme all the additional payments that that woman should have received up until the time her claim is accepted. There is an injustice there. It is not equal treatment of people; it is lesser treatment of many. It is an injustice, and that was the rule that we were following when the High Court looked at the situation and said, \u201CThat wasn\u2019t the intention of the legislature. That\u2019s not what the words say. The words say you can take the main benefit. They don\u2019t say you can claw back all this other money.\u201D As a result, the Government decided to legislate to say all the money taken\u2014let\u2019s say stolen\u2014from those people, because it was unlawful; any of that money that has been taken: \u201CNo, it\u2019s OK. We\u2019re going to make it retroactively lawful.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo that is what we are doing today, retrospectively. We\u2019re also changing the law today. We\u2019re not just reiterating it; we\u2019re changing it because we\u2019re not keeping the law as it was. We\u2019re moving to a state of saying that if you don\u2019t have your claim accepted for a number of years, you will actually have to pay all of these other benefits. Tim Costley won\u2019t. If he breaks his arm tomorrow, he\u2019ll still be in a better position than the woman who puts in a claim for sexual assault. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, we don\u2019t know how many people are affected. What we know from what we meagrely got out of the select committee and afterwards, because we had to report before we got this information, is information with a sample of 50 of these people\u201450 of the people they looked at at ACC last year. That\u2019s where the figure of 65 percent of these people being sexual assault victims comes from. That was in that figure. Seventy percent of those people from last year who miss out, they were women. There are also lots of people out there who are affected beyond that, but we don\u2019t know who they are because we didn\u2019t bother to find out. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also never found out whether ACC had any justification for not paying the money that they would have paid, if they had not been in default, across to MSD in compensation to them to recognise the fact that there was this group of people who missed out big time. Why is ACC not funding this? Why doesn\u2019t ACC simply take the money that it\u2019s saved, look at the amount that the beneficiary who is having that claim made is liable for, make an assessment about whether in fact they would have paid more out on ACC, and knock the knocker with MSD. Those sorts of arrangements, they\u2019re not beyond us. Before I hear one more person stand up and say, \u201CWe\u2019re just confirming the way we\u2019ve always done things.\u201D, I ask this House what they\u2019re here for. If we\u2019re just here to confirm whatever we are told without question\u2014and without the fundamental question, which is, \u201CIs this just?\u201D; \u201CIs it just?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI take the point that you can\u2019t get upset about everything. But, remember, the Labour Party started in a position of supporting this bill because of what it was told. It was just awake on the job. It found out what was going on. It found out that there was an injustice afoot and it wasn\u2019t prepared to tolerate it. It is not our job to simply create the status quo, regardless. Why otherwise are we here? We have this precious job where we get to actually change the world a little bit. It is not that hard to stand up for something that is just or moral. It is our job. In fact, today, what we have is a Government that is asleep on its watch, not doing a thing for the money they earn today. It doesn\u2019t seem to worry it that the people impacted are not double-dippers, that the premise they started on is not true. That is why Mr Costley can get up and say, \u201CIt\u2019s as simple as two lines. We don\u2019t want double-dipping, and the Greens are just barking all the time.\u201D Neither of those things are true. This is something where we join our colleagues in the Greens and the M\u0101ori Party and say this is not a reasonable law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour put up a very good amendment. It wasn\u2019t our work; it was based on the work of submitters. It was the submitters who\u2019ve lived and breathed these cases for years. They told us that ACC have a discretion so that fairness is at the heart of the decisions that they make. We took that on board and we created an amendment and we made sure sexual assault victims were in there, first and foremost, because we knew this was important. This Government declined to take it seriously. Well, the problem with that is damage will be done to a whole lot of workers out there. So next time someone from the Government gets up and tells us that they care about workers, I urge the public to think, \u201CHow much do they care about workers in this country? How much do they care about people?\u2014full stop.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf this is the way that they are treating them, if they would rather just go along with a custom of practice regardless of whether it makes any sense or, importantly, is just\u2014that is the centre of our jobs. That is why we are here, that is why we come to this Parliament, and it\u2019s important that we lead morally and justly. And this law\u2014it\u2019s another good reason to change the Government this November. It\u2019s extremely important we do. Thank you, \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u00227783d11d9ee5d79462d488189f2d09cc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227783d11d9ee5d79462d488189f2d09cc\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (17:17)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this bill is about fairness. This bill clarifies the law for those on ACC payments and their welfare entitlements, to make sure the process is fair for everyone. There are cohorts of people out there that are on ACC and get welfare and vice versa. They\u2019re on welfare and then they end up going on ACC. The current situation, as interpreted by the courts, is those who receive lump-sum payments are treated more generously than the former, which are those on ACC and welfare. So the Government has a duty to fix this. This is what this bill does. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022 data-id=\u00229f8dea624d31ce938fa36fda293185b9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229f8dea624d31ce938fa36fda293185b9\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti) (17:18)\u003C/span\u003E:\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003E T\u0113n\u0101 rawa atu koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, heoi an\u014D t\u0101tou katoa. E t\u016B ana awau ki te whakah\u0113 i t\u0113nei pire m\u014D Te P\u0101ti Reipa\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EGreetings to you, Mr Speaker, and to all. I stand to object to this bill on behalf of the Labour Party\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe member opposite just talked about fairness, and we all know fairness is too subjective of a term. This is not about fairness; this is about justice. If this was simply about targeting people who \u201Care ripping off the system\u201D, kei te pai, but this is absolutely going to impact on people who have engaged with these services in good faith. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe all know somebody who has sat in ACC purgatory: who\u2019s had their injury, gone through the process, and is waiting on their claim. So while they\u2019re waiting, let\u2019s talk about what happens and what this bill is actually going to do\u2014even though my colleague Helen explained it so brilliantly. So they\u2019ll go to the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) and they\u2019ll get on a benefit while they wait. During that time, they will often miss out on the support ACC should or would have been providing them: the rehab, the physio, the therapy, the travel\u2014all real costs associated with their injury that is having a major impact on their life. Sometimes months or even years later, ACC accepts the claim. Happy days! Then they pay back. They make a back payment of about 80 percent of lost earnings. ACC then reimburses MSD for the main benefit paid during their period. That makes sense. Nobody disputes the principle that somebody should not be paid twice for the same income period. But what happens next is the problem. MSD treats the remainder of that back payment as income and seeks to recover it as debt, even though that is often needed for the rehab and living costs that person, themselves, has had to carry, which, as I know personally, often means the treatment is not accessed, not only because of affordability but, in fact, because of accessibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of the wh\u0101nau I\u2019m talking about\u2014with all credit to services like ACC who do try to be accessible; providing mobile services, that doesn\u2019t always cut it if you live in the likes of P\u014Dtaka and Wharek\u0101hika\u2014who we know have been cut off, literally, from the outside world for a couple of months\u2014so accessibility to these services in the first place, to then understand if you\u2019re following the correct procedure, is an issue in itself. Therefore, people who have overcome those barriers, and have finally received the support, in good faith, understanding that they followed the correct procedure, that they have been acting lawfully, now, are going to get a bill saying, \u201CGuess what! Surprise, surprise. You\u2019ve just exhaled, you\u2019ve just experienced relief knowing that you can meet your expenses\u2014sorry about it\u2014you\u2019ve got to pay it all back.\u201D At a time when we know the number one issue in Aotearoa is the cost of living, this Government is choosing to retrospectively burden people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard in the House, it\u2019s not just about broken arms and sprained ankles; 65 percent of the cases heard in select committee were sensitive cases, survivors of, for example, abuse in State care. Have they not been through enough? Can we not actually let them get on with healing their physical, mental, and spiritual wounds that now we\u2019re going to retrospectively punish them for behaving in a manner they didn\u2019t even understand was unlawful; behaving in a manner where they believed they were following correct process? That\u2019s why Labour did propose, did enter into this in good faith, and had a k\u014Drero about it to see if, in fact, this was merely about people intentionally taking advantage of this service. We found that that was not the case, and we found that, in fact, it is going to be wh\u0101nau who acted in good faith that are going to be seriously burdened by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I said, these wh\u0101nau have enough to deal with. Let\u2019s let them get on with recovering spiritually, physically, and mentally and moving forward. This Government needs to take the advice of ACC and have a \u201Chmm\u201D and really think about what they\u2019re doing. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE te M\u0101ngai o te Whare, m\u014D Te P\u0101ti Reipa me ng\u0101 wh\u0101nau katoa e m\u0101takitaki mai ana, k\u0101ore rawa atu ahau e whakaae ki t\u0113nei pire\u003C/span\u003E. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EMr Speaker, on behalf of the Labour Party and all the families watching, I absolutely do not assent to this bill\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022305b7f528a8a29c167d96f370b599289\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022305b7f528a8a29c167d96f370b599289\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (17:23)\u003C/span\u003E: Sometimes, some decisions that we have to make are very hard decisions to make, but that doesn\u2019t mean they shouldn\u2019t be made. Yet listening to people on the other side, I can acknowledge this is one of those difficult decisions. But there\u2019s a situation where in two groups of people, one group is being treated more generously than the other. Is that fair? When they want to talk about fairness, when they want to say that we don\u2019t care about workers, what about those that are not being treated as generously as the other group? That\u2019s not fair. And for a Green Party member to get up and say we shouldn\u2019t be tidying up just because it was found unlawful, well, typical of the Green Party to not care what\u2019s lawful or not. This is a hard decision, but it\u2019s the right decision, and it\u2019s a decision that needs to be made. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u0022158d8a0828536c6c0bba6d420e3a5657\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022158d8a0828536c6c0bba6d420e3a5657\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (17:24)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. This is a really complicated matter, but I think I have time to probably go through the background of how we arrived in this place. In October 2025, there was a successful court case that was taken by the Community Law Centres Aotearoa, representing claimants who had been made to pay their supplementary payments back when they had received ACC. Now, they were successful, meaning that the law, as it was currently being applied by the Ministry of Social Development (MSD), was not correct. The policy of MSD was not being implemented correctly, and so this is why we are here today in the House. The Government decided, I think, around about 17 February\u2014probably decided before that, but the House and the Opposition parties were informed on that date\u2014that they wanted to change the law, and that change would mean that the people who had received MSD supplementary payments and then, subsequently, often a long time later, ACC payments, would, again, have to go into debt or find a way of paying back those particular promises. This is something that we thought about really hard in Labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the things, when we were first presented with this bill, that we were very concerned about was the fact the initial proposal by the Government was to bring this bill to Parliament and to place it under urgency and to have the bill go through all stages of urgency in one day, and we hadn\u2019t had enough time to look at what the implications would be; we hadn\u2019t had enough time to speak with people who are affected, with people who represent those who are affected. So we were able to negotiate with the Government\u2014and I thank the Government for their good-faith interactions with us in this respect\u2014to have a short select committee process of around a week. That was extremely important, as we\u2019ve come to see, because we received 860 submissions, even though there were only 2\u00BD days for people to actually put submissions in. That really indicated to us, and was a first, kind of, warning sign that this might be a little bit more complicated than it had originally been portrayed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think one of the things that we learnt through the select committee process\u2014and I thank the members of that committee who, from all accounts, from across the House, participated diligently in that committee, although it was for a short time\u2014is that this isn\u2019t simply a matter of people being paid twice. That is not correct. This isn\u2019t about the main benefit. This isn\u2019t about\u2014and we\u2019ve heard it quoted before in the House\u2014a situation, I\u2019m now convinced, of double-dipping. It is a situation where you actually have people who have received payments for things like the disability allowance, who have received payments like the winter energy payment, who\u2019ve actually had to use those payments to live. If they had received ACC during that time, and all of these people that we\u2019re talking about should have been receiving ACC, because they\u2019ve received backdated pay, then other forms of compensation rehabilitation would have been available to them. So we\u2019re actually talking about people who are being asked to pay back money, which, in many cases, is a lower amount than what they would have received if they\u2019d been on ACC at the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo this is an injustice of this bill. Regardless of the asking of the repayment and the damage it might cause to vulnerable people, this is an issue which still hasn\u2019t been resolved. It means that many of the claims from those on the other side of the House are not 100 percent correct because you are looking at a situation where people did not, and have not\u2014and we have not heard from ACC or the Government that they will be reimbursing MSD, so that the claim, the cost of those supplementary payments, are going directly on to claimants. That is an unfairness and, unfortunately, is not being able to be resolved through this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne thing that was really positive from the select committee process was the fact that the Government agreed to extend the number of people who were excluded from having to repay, under this bill. Initially, it was people who had filed formal claims, but now it\u2019s been extended to people who have raised complaints with MSD. Without that select committee process that we argued for\u2014and we voted for this bill to select committee because we wanted to hear from people who would be facing that injustice\u2014that may not have happened. I think that shows the select committee process was worthwhile, even though it was short, and that small change is something that we voted for as an amendment when the Minister put that to the committee of the whole House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, as others have said, we were unable to reach a point where we were assured that when situations of severe injustice, severe hardship, would occur as a result of this legislation, we would be confident that MSD would have the discretion to make sure that they didn\u2019t enforce a payment. Now, these people are not people, as many have said, who have done anything wrong. These are people who have acted in good faith, they\u2019ve legally received MSD assistance; they\u2019ve then, legally, again, and with showing good faith, received assistance because they\u2019ve been injured from ACC. They have done nothing wrong here, but, at the same time, they are being given a debt that many may never be able to repay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother thing that was very, very important that we were able to ascertain at the select committee is who we are actually talking about here. We are talking about mainly women\u201470 percent women out of the group that ACC looked at as a sample group, and 65 percent of them have sensitive claims. Those are claims where people have been subject to sexual abuse, assault, rape\u2014horrific crimes. These are our most vulnerable people who have had such terrible experiences, and our deeply felt, genuine concern is that it is not right for those people to have that struggle to finally get ACC coverage for that sensitive claim and for us to then say to them, when they\u2019ve done nothing wrong, even when there is an assessment that it would cause undue hardship, that yes, we\u2019re going to put you in debt\u2014despite the hardship that you have faced in your life, we\u2019re going to put you in debt again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a serious matter, and we know that people are watching. I received an email about the committee stage this morning from a sensitive claimant. She watched four hours of this debate, and I want to acknowledge her and those other people, like her, who have actually taken time to watch this debate and acknowledge the fact that this is such an important thing. I want to apologise for the fact that we are unable to fully address the fact that their concerns and their personal situations cannot be amended by this Act. We did try hard to get that discretion in place. We did put forward, in good faith, these amendments, and, unfortunately, we are unable to get that agreement from the other side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is something that will be ongoing. I\u2019ve been informed that there is already a petition that has been started, and that petition will be coming to the House, so there is an opportunity for people to support that petition and to provide advocacy in this situation if they so want to. This is a situation where we know that there will be hardship caused by this. This is a situation, really, where there are no winners, and it\u2019s a really sad day, I think, for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother issue that I just wanted to quickly raise was the fact that I don\u2019t think there has been enough opportunity, because of this truncated process, to actually think about the possible indirect discriminatory aspects of this bill. I\u2019ve read the New Zealand Bill of Rights Act vet from the Attorney-General. I mentioned this in the committee stage as well. She did not have, I don\u2019t think, the information that we now have about the demographics of people that are affected under this bill\u2014and still we have imperfect data on this. We don\u2019t have data on ethnicity. I wouldn\u2019t be surprised if there was an aspect of ethnicity that has shown up in the people who\u2019ll be affected here as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe reason I raise that is because that\u2019s a protected characteristic, and that is a protected characteristic under our human rights legislation. I do think that this could be considered to be a case of indirect discrimination, where you do have a policy that appears to apply to everyone, but, actually, the statistics that we do have show that the people it\u2019s applying to are women with sensitive claims who have been subject to sexual abuse. As my colleague says, many of these are women; a significant number of them are older women, as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s not much more to say on this bill. Labour doesn\u2019t support it. It\u2019s a very sad day when we are faced with evidence that something that we have control over in this House will produce more hardship and we\u2019re unable to find a way through that. I\u2019m not going to blame any particular person or party for this, but it is a really serious matter and it\u2019s a sad day that we haven\u2019t been able to properly acknowledge this terrible, hard situation that will eventuate for many of these people. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u00228ce4865edfb48a4147b7e9ed936cb81a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ce4865edfb48a4147b7e9ed936cb81a\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour) (17:34)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It falls to me as the last speaker on this debate to thank the Social Services and Community Committee, who did recommend by majority that the bill proceed without amendment. I want to also acknowledge Minister Louise Upston and her leadership in the Ministry of Social Development space. I also want to acknowledge our ACC Minister and his leadership in the ACC portfolio. As he articulated at question time today, ACC is delivering its strongest rehabilitation performance in over a decade and getting New Zealanders back to work and independent faster. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Social Security (Accident Compensation and Calculation of Weekly Income) Amendment Bill be now read a third time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 68\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 53\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 13; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 4; Ferris; Kapa-Kingi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a95a01fc603bea522cd7e783b5c1e0b9\u0022\u003EHealthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aab60dfeff8c7f218b2a1df0738eef2e\u0022\u003ESecond Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000565\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 3 March.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002201f738f244724e5b8da066dba7a6a526\u0022 data-id=\u002275024cfc48b890bcbaff8ba78a47fcda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002201f738f244724e5b8da066dba7a6a526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275024cfc48b890bcbaff8ba78a47fcda\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN (Labour) (17:36)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for the opportunity to resume this debate and make a contribution on the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill. I had to check myself saying that, because it\u2019s kind of back to front, isn\u2019t it?\u2014quite noticeable that the name has been changed. A little bit small-minded and somewhat petty, as they say, but nevertheless, for those of us who are used to saying it the other way round, here we find ourselves today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, I want to just reiterate, because this is an interrupted debate, that obviously Labour won\u2019t be supporting this bill, for various reasons\u2014for various good reasons. I\u2019m going to focus on three particular things in relation to this Government\u2019s approach to health, which I think this bill sums up quite nicely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe first one is, quite obviously, the bill mistakes measurement for improvement, and that\u2019s not an easy mistake to make, but yet here we are. This Government is yet again making the mistake of saying that if you simply measure something, then somehow you\u2019re going to improve the system. No one disagrees with the fact that performance should be visible\u2014I think we can all agree to that\u2014but simply writing targets into law isn\u2019t going to do anything to create capacity.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that emergency departments, they\u2019re not under pressure because these targets up until this point haven\u2019t been legal. That\u2019s an absurdity. They\u2019re under pressure because there\u2019s not enough staff: there\u2019s not enough doctors, there\u2019s not enough nurses, there\u2019s not enough allied professionals\u2014there\u2019s not enough staff in general, and there\u2019s certainly not enough primary care upstream. Those things matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that when people can\u2019t afford to see their GP, they delay their care, they get sicker and sicker, they end up in hospitals, and those emergency departments start to overflow. Instead of taking the opportunity that this Government has to do something about that\u2014to address those underlying causes, to address the things that are actually going wrong and need attention and fixing those shortages\u2014the Government\u2019s answer is just to lock those targets into legislation. That is such a lazy shortcut. It\u2019s backwards\u2014it\u2019s literally backwards\u2014and it\u2019s taking the health system backwards.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, on this side of the House, Labour certainly is very vocal about the fact that everybody, we believe, should be able to get the healthcare that they need, when they need it, close to home. It should be without the cost, without the wait times. That is incredibly important. If you don\u2019t address that foundation to the health system, it\u2019s barking mad to think you can simply attach a number to it, write it into an Act, and suddenly it will be fixed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat\u2019s especially egregious with this bill is that most of the submitters\u2014I didn\u2019t have the pleasure of being on the select committee, so I didn\u2019t witness the process firsthand, but certainly in talking with colleagues and seeing the reports, the submitters warned that legislating targets poses risks. It risks that the numbers get gamed\u2014gaming the numbers. It risks that what actually happens is that care just gets narrowed\u2014narrowed down to what is actually measured. We saw that last time National tried this. You know, we saw that happening in hospitals. We saw loads of people going into particular hospitals when it was coming time to report at the end of a reporting section, and people would suddenly get their cataracts fixed. Heaps of people were able to do simple things like get cataracts fixed, but the knees and hips and all sorts of other things weren\u2019t being attended to because that particular DHB just needed to get those measures up and meet those targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe also know it means it risks that the system just starts ignoring things like equity and prevention\u2014and that still matters. This Government can\u2019t just say that things that are fundamentally important to decent outcomes simply don\u2019t matter, because if you just legislate some targets, somehow it\u2019ll all be fixed. Ultimately, it just distorts service delivery, and that is a real shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second point I want to make is that the bill tightens control of the workforce\u2014and it does\u2014while weakening the workforce voice. Why does this legislation feel the need to emphasise\u2014to even bother emphasising\u2014Public Service neutrality? You know, what does that even mean? What are they trying to get at there? Doctors, nurses, and allied professionals speaking out, when they do speak out\u2014and they do and they should do\u2014about unsafe staffing, about cuts, about what is the lived reality inside the hospitals that they are working in, that\u2019s not political mischief. It\u2019s not a bad thing; it\u2019s professional responsibility. For many of those professionals, they actually have a professional responsibility towards advocating for patient safety, and this Government thinks that they can just do something to make that go away. That\u2019s absurd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf legislation starts constraining those professionals who we trust to run our health system, and if they start constraining their ability to advocate for patient safety, then we have got a massive problem. At the very moment when we know that morale is incredibly fragile\u2014because it is; we see it all the time\u2014there\u2019s media and those of us who are out and about in our constituencies and we\u2019re talking to people; we hear it all the time. You only have to go doorknocking in any suburb, in any electorate, and one of the first things people talk about is how stressed and worried they are about the health system and how they have a family member or they are themselves someone who works in the health system and that they\u2019re really, really worried.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt a time when that morale is so low, this bill also repeals the Health Charter, which removes the principles that the sector put together that were designed to actually support the collaboration and the shared values that make the system work properly. You cannot, absolutely cannot, rebuild that strained system\u2014and it is a strained system\u2014simply by silencing the very people that are holding that system together. That\u2019s bonkers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWages, as we know, make up about 70 percent of the operating costs. So, by definition, workforce stability is the system. Anything you\u2019re doing to undermine that is a risk to the care that people receive. Instead of rebuilding that trust, this bill centralises bargaining leverage, which is a mistake and it won\u2019t work. It then tells staff, who they\u2019re not listening to, who they\u2019re putting under more strain by taking control and silencing their voice, \u201CHey, while you\u2019re at it, simply hit those targets.\u201D That\u2019s not leadership; it is control without support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000578\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe third thing that we really don\u2019t like about this bill on this side of the House is it not only centralises power but it centralises power and quietly opens up the door to privatisation. When you\u2019re doorknocking and you\u2019re talking to real people, that is the second most common thing: they mention the fact that they\u2019re worried about the health system, they\u2019re worried about accessing the health system, they\u2019re worried about the staff that work in the health system, and they\u2019re worried that this Government is setting it all up because that is what they want to achieve, ultimately\u2014and that is absolutely fundamentally not what they should be doing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt explicitly adds an objective to work with private providers. It allows the Minister to hand-pick board members. It allows the director-general to actually sit in on board meetings, not to protect independents, mind you, but just simply to reflect Government priorities. It scraps the audit requirements for the health plan, and it downgrades M\u0101ori leadership to advisory roles only. Even just saying that last part out loud should signal to everybody that that is absolutely, fundamentally the wrong direction. Piece by piece, this bill shifts power upwards and it shifts it outwards. Anything that this Government is doing on purpose to fundamentally undermine that partnership is a step in the wrong direction. It\u2019s a step that I think lots of people could be quite rightly concerned about towards privatisation and away from public provision.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that under Christopher Luxon and this National Government, it\u2019s already getting harder and harder and more expensive to see a GP. It\u2019s getting harder and harder and more expensive to see a nurse and to access care, and we know that when people delay that care, hospitals become overstretched. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b50ddc60663faf78b81b6ef163d98a21\u0022\u003EDr Hamish Campbell\u003C/span\u003E: That is not true\u2014that is not true.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229fb4ce970d4f47d9853d2ea64ddc5b74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c2d5d4180820b8e72fa8b2dba758145\u0022\u003EHon Simon Watts\u003C/span\u003E: Misinformation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002201f738f244724e5b8da066dba7a6a526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bd031e76d037b58a84cee72fe636915\u0022\u003EDr TRACEY McLELLAN\u003C/span\u003E: If this Government\u2014and I note that they\u2019ve got more to say at the moment than what they\u2019ve contributed thus far in this debate\u2014were actually serious about doing anything about that and improving health outcomes, why aren\u2019t they focusing on making it cheaper to do that? No, they\u2019re leaving it to the Labour Party. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve prioritised three free GP visits for everybody every year through the Medicard, because if you don\u2019t address the underlying causes of what\u2019s holding the health system up, then you\u2019re not doing your job and you\u2019re wasting your time here. Why aren\u2019t they investing in the infrastructure that the health system needs? Why aren\u2019t they worried about prevention and actually doing something to prevent the ambulance at the bottom of the cliff? No, instead, we\u2019re here today and we\u2019re talking about legislating targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re not opposed to health targets. Obviously, they have a place. Some health targets work, but not these ones. These ones are useless health targets. They\u2019re not only doing the wrong thing; they\u2019re choosing the wrong health targets to do the wrong thing. If they were interested in health reform and better care, they\u2019d be doing that. But no, they\u2019re just simply interested in better optics.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u002204a215de6819f50f6022f5a4909c6dee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002204a215de6819f50f6022f5a4909c6dee\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (17:47)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to rise in support of the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill in the second reading. We are putting more money into health, contrary to what we\u2019ve just heard and the scaremongering that\u2019s going on. This bill is putting patients first, contrary to what the previous Government did. This Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill is about shifting the focus from bureaucracy to delivery, ensuring every New Zealander has timely access to quality healthcare. We\u2019re mandating health targets that ensure focus remains on what matters: reducing emergency wait times, improving cancer management, increasing childhood immunisations\u2014that all went backwards under their Government. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221e2b740c56409f6b24d2d4b4464011b7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This call is a split call\u2014Glen Bennett.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4771d6a7fc94cd43019bba5a520afb8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d52c571cdb246f6abf50a39de1a66f7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4771d6a7fc94cd43019bba5a520afb8\u0022\u003EGLEN BENNETT (Labour) (17:48)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise to oppose the Healthy Futures (Pae Ora) Amendment Bill. I find it so interesting that every time a National Party backbencher gets up, they say that this Government has put more money into health than any other Government. Well, that kind of happens with every Government because as the population rises, we always put more money in. But if it\u2019s per population, we\u2019ve got to consider, \u201CIs that correct?\u201D We need to pay attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, I don\u2019t know if people remember the 1990s when the National Government was in power. I do. I remember that. I remember marching on Parliament here with the H\u012Bkoi of Hope, and it was tens of thousands of people from around the country marching from all ends and corners. I\u2019m challenging that National coalition Government about their treatment of beneficiaries, their treatment of those in their health system, their treatment of those in public housing\u2014in fact, the sell-off of public housing. But I do remember because I had to access the health service back in the 1990s. I don\u2019t know if people remember when National was in power, but they had the hospital user charges. So, you know, the welfare State had been created back in the 1930s, it was free healthcare for all; then along comes a National Government and they put in these healthcare user charges. So when I had to go to the hospital, I had to pay a fee to go into there. Looking at this legislation and looking at what they\u2019re trying to do, yet again, I feel like it is a National-led Government who is meddling and messing with our health system without consideration for the people actually at the coalface who are doing the work, whether it comes to our emergency department doctors and nurses, whether it comes to our cancer care specialists, whether it comes to those public health nurses doing their thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs my colleague Dr Tracey McLellan said, yes, we\u2019ve got to be ambitious. We\u2019ve got to have targets. We\u2019ve got to get somewhere. But, at the same time, if you\u2019re not taking the workforce with you, if you\u2019re not finding a way through, with the morale and the buy-in and then having the resources and having the collaboration, then I think that something is wrong. That\u2019s why I\u2019m speaking against this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs we look at what is going on here and we try to understand\u2014you know, if you want to fix the system, if you want to fix the numbers, you don\u2019t just put blanket numbers in place there through legislation, because that is the heavy hammer of this place. What does it mean if you do that and then you don\u2019t actually engage with those health services and find a way through? It damages morale. It damages those who are doing the hard yards and doing the long hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe can\u2019t support this legislation, as many of my colleagues have spoken about, because, fundamentally, I believe that legislation isn\u2019t the silver bullet that will fix us and get our wait-lists down, that will get our rates of immunisation up. There\u2019s got to be a way through where we\u2019re working in collaboration. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWith a straight face, I stand here and also want to talk about Te Tiriti and the requirements of that. As I look through the bill, and as I was trying to find my little bit of notes that I had, this does weaken our partnerships and iwi partnerships, which are something that has been worked on so hard for so long. In fact, it undoes some of the work that has been done around M\u0101ori and iwi representatives at the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhy is this important? Because so often it is our most vulnerable. As Government members kind of cackle and laugh\u2014our most high-needs users are actually our M\u0101ori populations, who are suspicious and who don\u2019t necessarily trust our health professionals, so we need representatives at the table.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EStatistics do not lie, and so we need to be aware and know that as we undo and take away some of those expectations, some of those powers of our M\u0101ori advisory groups, that actually takes away trust and actually yet again adds to the statistics which we should be embarrassed about and we should be ashamed about. We need to make sure that we have a strong public health service, and that iwi and that M\u0101ori are at the table, making sure that they are represented.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9d8acab76284a1019371f2538df4ef6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9d8acab76284a1019371f2538df4ef6\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki) (17:53)\u003C/span\u003E: National are fixing the basics and building the future. Health is really important to the K\u0101piti Coast. We have one of the highest numbers of over-65s, which puts on some extra health demands. That\u2019s why things like the new breast cancer clinic in Waikanae was so important, and getting that extra funding for our health shuttle. That\u2019s why these targets make a meaningful difference, because it means that residents that I meet have got their specialist appointment faster, their elective surgery, their cancer appointment, they\u2019ve got through the emergency department quicker. That\u2019s what building the future looks like. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022 data-id=\u00220c46533bb1f2a3fcaa0ba9f289ac4b00\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c46533bb1f2a3fcaa0ba9f289ac4b00\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti) (17:53)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKi te whakaaro ahau m\u014D ng\u0101 h\u014Dhipera ka hoki ng\u0101 mahara ki te w\u0101 i tipu ai au, i te w\u0101 i t\u016B t\u0113tahi o ng\u0101 pakeke ki te tuku karakia. I tuku inoi atu r\u0101tou m\u014D ng\u0101 mea e noho taumaha ana i roto i ng\u0101 h\u014Dhipera. I t\u0113nei r\u0101 ko taku k\u014Dk\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 e noho taumaha ana ki roto i te h\u014Dhipera o T\u016Branganui-a-Kiwa. N\u0101 reira ki a koe e te k\u014Dk\u0101 Aunty Polly, t\u0113nei au e tuku aroha atu ki a koe. M\u0101 te Atua tonu koe e manaaki e tiaki\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWhen I think about hospitals, I\u2019m reminded of the time I grew up, when an elder would stand and recite a prayer. They would pray for those who are ailing in hospitals. Today, my aunt is the one who is ailing in the Gisborne Hospital. To you, Aunty Polly, I send my love and ask for God to care for you\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI stand to oppose this bill on behalf of the Labour Party. Before we get bogged down into analysing the 30-second contributions given by members opposite\u2014and that\u2019s being generous\u2014I want to take some time to reflect on why these changes matter, and that is because from an ao M\u0101ori perspective, we took a long time to get here. In pre-colonial times, M\u0101ori had economic and health systems already running. Over successive years, these have been disestablished to the point where we find ourselves addressing some of the needs they have actually addressed across the House, but we are still not hitting the target. That\u2019s why the inclusion and the powers given to people like the iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards matter, and making sure they remain whole and are not diluted matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn 1840, M\u0101ori were told by the Crown, \u201C\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKei te pai koutou\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYou are fine\u003C/span\u003E]. We\u2019re going to afford you the same rights and we will look after you.\u201D Well, that hasn\u2019t happened\u2014that hasn\u2019t happened. Not only that, but we weren\u2019t allowed to do it ourselves. In 1907, the Tohunga Suppression Act\u2014that took away not only a massive impact on the way we address health in wh\u0101nau M\u0101ori and hap\u016B M\u0101ori and M\u0101ori communities but that actually had a very damaging impact on the health of practitioners.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the 1990s and early 2000s, I had the privilege of studying with a woman from Rangitukia. As we were studying the impact of the Tohunga Suppression Act, she said, \u201CNow I know what\u2019s wrong with me.\u201D There had been no mention of her talents and her gifts and the value which they have to heal wh\u0101nau. That not only had a massive impact on our societal ways of addressing health; it had an impact on her health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen you look at things like Te Aka Whai Ora\u2014and we had practitioners who were finally able to utilise their tikanga M\u0101ori abilities in a mainstream system, not just for M\u0101ori but for everyone\u2014that impact was massive. That\u2019s why any little things that people think are little tweaks and amendments\u2014that\u2019s why they matter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt hasn\u2019t just been a three-year Government term that\u2019s got us here; it\u2019s been hundreds of years and generations of people whose health has been sacrificed by the decisions made and given 15 seconds of consideration in this House. That\u2019s why Labour will not stand for it. That\u2019s why, wh\u0101nau, keep your eyes on the prize. Register. Vote. Make this a one-term Government, because all your concerns about your hauora are falling on deaf ears. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe heard a doctor\u2014no less\u2014from across the House talk about how \u201COh, we\u2019ve put more money into this than anyone.\u201D What good is money if it\u2019s landing in the wrong places? That\u2019s why the dilution of the role and of the mana being given to iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards is so dangerous. What iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards represent is direct connection to community, and they need to be able to give direct influence to the health services that we deliver to communities across Aotearoa. With all due respect to the census, they don\u2019t always get into the far reach. In fact, I was asked to work on a project to address that very fact that they don\u2019t always get into the most isolated communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other issue is if we take the broad stroke into what general needs are, that\u2019s where wh\u0101nau miss out. For example, right now in Tair\u0101whiti, we don\u2019t do chemotherapy. We don\u2019t really do a lot of cancer care. A lot of wh\u0101nau will either travel to Hastings or they\u2019ll go to Hamilton. I know for a fact that wh\u0101nau\u2019s lives are shortened because of it, because my own father-in-law said to my husband, \u201CWhat will that mean? Oh, it\u2019ll mean so many trips to Hamilton. That\u2019s not how I want to spend my last days.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you\u2019re talking about money going to the right places, you can thank Labour, actually, because it was Labour who had the courage to establish Te Aka Whai Ora. It was Labour who had the courage to honour Te Tiriti o Waitangi partnerships. That\u2019s why people will be thanking Labour when this Government is gone on 7 November this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBack to the point\u2014by the way, members opposite had ample time to make points. This is actually the opposite of what the National Party preaches, and that was that they would give mana and authority to iwi M\u0101ori partnership boards. What this bill does is dilute that. It\u2019s another method that this Government is using to slowly but surely chip away at all the positive mahi that has been done in iwi-Crown partnerships and relations. This is another damaging effect that this Government is having on it and another thing that we\u2019re going to have to clean up when Labour comes back into Government. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHeoi an\u014D r\u0101 ki a koutou katoa ng\u0101 kaimahi e mahi ana i roto i ng\u0101 Hauora katoa puta noa i Aotearoa, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou e manaaki, e tiaki ana i ng\u0101 t\u016Broro katoa o te motu.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ETo all the people working in the health sector throughout the country, thank you all for caring and nursing all the patients of the country\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do not commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4fd627890999d9b86d722258e3154c7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 10 March 2026. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKia pai te mutunga wiki\u003C/span\u003E\u2014have a good weekend.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260305f8d2d03943f0ffc380000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 6.01 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"