"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a7a3b4b86a06c4272dd1e1ca8a3070bb\u0022\u003EWednesday, 1 April 2026\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EThe Speaker\u003C/span\u003E took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fecb11d7848619527e23e01849655670\u0022\u003EStart of Sitting Day\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227c8c152f2bd076fee60892ab34e2f23f\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022e30b86d7b3d09ce3fe325402a973dad2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e30b86d7b3d09ce3fe325402a973dad2\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker) (14:00)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EAlmighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229cd2c15b41bc11f608c8a5cdf0dfd21b\u0022\u003EDebates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022be8b451656ca76f62fc003ec03b74b17\u0022\u003EMember Fees\u2014Fire and Emergency New Zealand Board\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220e2cbc3f9e388549676f11bf7b345f49\u0022\u003EUrgent Debate Declined\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u002206f10d049135887ff213d77553e21b6f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206f10d049135887ff213d77553e21b6f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, I\u2019ve received a letter from Lemauga Lydia Sosene seeking to debate under Standing Order 399 the decision to increase the board member fees for the Fire and Emergency New Zealand Board. This is a case of recent occurrence for which there is ministerial responsibility. The business of the House should not be set aside just because a ministerial announcement has been made, even though it may be important. There must be an element of urgency that the matter must take precedence over other business: Speakers\u2019 rulings 224/4. The subject of the application is the result of a fees framework set by the Cabinet last year. It doesn\u2019t warrant setting aside the business of the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ca48bd35c282981b56ffd487e38c340\u0022\u003EPresentation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002237de78f9baacaee2c46253530b096f61\u0022\u003EPetitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec44351436085682a06b27d359fc43cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec44351436085682a06b27d359fc43cb\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:01)\u003C/span\u003E: Two petitions have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222f5ff7006d9f0e5152f46f5a2aa6b786\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:01): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of Gary Chiles requesting that the House repeal and replace the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975 with health-focused harm minimisation legislation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Russel Norman requesting that the House urge the Government to condemn the military attack by the United States and Israeli Governments on Iran. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f26de6eb1611c5e91d10da525a168c5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002274835b01b2c9f1eccad6e94a587af4a5\u0022\u003EPapers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8c3831bd54057791ccbe6cf7183e7da\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8c3831bd54057791ccbe6cf7183e7da\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: I present the report of the Controller and Auditor-General entitled \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDepartment of Corrections: Planning for stable housing outcomes\u003C/span\u003E. That paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00224f7f488b0101e935853d9f967435e284\u0022\u003ESelect Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022 data-id=\u00227ca48f046d75501031fa04a64e58bc3f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227ca48f046d75501031fa04a64e58bc3f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Five select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a99535a8a93d24a1a31a9658aaf3ffd\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:02): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EReport of the Finance and Expenditure Committee on the Standard Estimates Questionnaire 2026/27\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Einterim report of the Health Committee on the briefing from the New Zealand Drug Federation on methamphetamine consumption\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Ereports of the Petitions Committee on the:\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Bevan O\u2019Connor\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Carl Smith\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Epetition of Newton Santos. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274681e3da1206d1b8d1a29eacc6f19e4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The report on the Standard Estimates Questionnaire 2026/27 and the interim report on the briefing from the New Zealand Drug Federation are set down for consideration. No bills have been introduced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022df9f3d3736fb4b6805b987ad2f96da6e\u0022\u003EOral Questions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227025db27dd4205a20e954a21faa1e30f\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e5f72a49c57898327aed933b525cd58\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a23286e71786b70c2f5802d396baab5d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a23286e71786b70c2f5802d396baab5d\u0022\u003EDEBBIE NGAREWA-PACKER (Co-Leader\u2014Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori) (14:03)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u002220e4eb690fe5a1dcb9aff7a3ea23a726\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002220e4eb690fe5a1dcb9aff7a3ea23a726\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:03)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e984efc28ae18dbf255b1a8734985b7\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Which regions will experience fuel shortages first, and has the Government modelled the impact on rural and M\u0101ori communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c6755bdb1840da481e4a1834318d3423\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as the member will well know, we are in what we call phase 1, which is watchful, and that just means the market is operating effectively and fuel is available nationwide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208b47a805bd1883651870ad91bcb025e\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Prime Minister release all internal modelling on fuel supply risk so New Zealanders can see the full picture?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225b57342f724b32790453c7750f4bde46\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, what we did last Friday was we outlined the four phases of our national fuel response plan. We are very much in a place where we have sufficient stocks and sufficient supplies, and so there is no significant supply disruptions. All we are doing is preparing for the eventuality that that may possibly happen in future months. That\u2019s why we\u2019ve laid out the four phases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234911b109c0f0cbc28f3ba8fc29ac56e\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Has the National Fuel Plan been operationally tested, and what role do iwi have in its execution?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d443086c96b2c7f6ae44dcb394df60ef\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We are meeting with officials every morning, and many times through the course of the day. But, at this point, our major focus, as you know, is to secure fuel supply; without it, that is the thing that can do the most damage to incomes and jobs. That is why we are doing everything we can to secure fuel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224eeb694c55ab4633a7c9a1c69024072a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002200e1bc9356567a9659bfad7d9d55cf2d\u0022\u003EDebbie Ngarewa-Packer\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government commit to using the extra $11.8\u00A0million in GST revenue per week that they are making off the back of this fuel crisis, to increase mileage subsidies for essential workers; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b415c76bf639fffae6b0daac583a12ac\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I heard the Leader of the Opposition say something similar last week and I just want to say to the members here that there is no windfall gain or benefit from higher fuel prices for the Government. Petrol excise tax, as everyone will understand, is fixed. While there may be a slight increase in GST theoretically increasing, there is an offset as people spend less money on other categories other than fuel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002208ae2fe79f0abb2a792b43de5ca6a4ea\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f2d4e7b9e98e2f9bdeabb1ad568fe8ae\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Um\u2014Rawiri Waititi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022985ddd5af4424bb5dfe91105ade0f8e7\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: How could you forget me that quickly, Mr Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d889ef37237b11640a50b9a8a510b9b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, quite; you\u2019re not exactly forgettable!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e0e2403c87194ab09a0bd954cda7ab12\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221dd619d9af691b20b1d1a782c69316fb\u0022\u003ERawiri Waititi\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government be harmonising our fuel excise tax with Australia by cutting it by 50 percent, just like they have harmonised our fuel requirements with Australia?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a80128e19762cf45b30927a03f7c7dfa\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As we\u2019ve said before: actually, for us, in our response to supporting New Zealanders at this time, it is important that we have timely, targeted, and temporary support. Obviously, making reductions to excise tax is not particularly targeted. It often benefits higher-income people and, importantly, can also drive more consumption. For us, it\u2019s not meeting the criteria of what we need, which is timely, targeted, and temporary.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022904db0eac2fdbf73dee516f1f8fc9a36\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: Will the Government consider freezing road-user charges during the fuel crisis to support wh\u0101nau in Hauraki-Waikato, who are frequently impacted by the closure of the Karangahake Gorge, have limited access to public transport, and are paying more than $230 to fill a diesel tank?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a1d7e2e4e265e87ff24e328faf5b3576\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We well understand how important diesel is, particularly for the New Zealand economy. Again, that\u2019s why our focus is very much on securing extra supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cb0cc5ce4a8e00d020b7063792d2a321\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: What support, beyond the limited package announced last week, will the Government be giving to wh\u0101nau in Papakura, who commute daily to mahi with no option to work from home, who are paying over $170 to fill up with 91, and who are trying to keep up with the rising high prices?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229668db298ae9bfd8cbf7f03f363d7080\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the criteria for this Government, as we\u2019ve outlined from day one, is to make sure that we are offering temporary, targeted, and timely support to our most vulnerable New Zealanders. We\u2019re freely admitting that we will not be able to alleviate the pressure for everybody, but we have also learnt the mistakes from COVID, which is to make sure that we are also being economically responsible and not creating more of an impact on rising inflation and also growth. That is very much our frame. We\u2019re very pleased to say that we\u2019ve been able to extend support to 143,000 working families, as we announced last week\u2014an extra $50 per week. That comes to about $375 million of total cost for the Government. We will continue to look at what more we can do, but we\u2019re doing it through that lens. It\u2019s important that we don\u2019t repeat the mistakes from COVID.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227122b4ca551169eb3ca066d1bf582255\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: What assurance can the Prime Minister give to the people of T\u0101maki-makau-rau that fuel security planning is keeping pace with escalating global risks, and why has there been no clear public communication about what a level 3 and 4 escalation would mean for households, essential workers, and M\u0101ori communities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c4402910f00c3bae03889ea4f1f1d58\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Because, as we\u2019ve been reiterating many times in regular media engagements, New Zealand does not have a fuel supply problem at this time. The market is operating effectively. There is plenty of supply and stock in country. That\u2019s why we\u2019re working so hard to make sure we work on phases 1 and 2, so that we never have to get to phases 3 and 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002269b5a9701027f169208a46d8aa683a63\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: What impact will the fuel and cost of living crises have on homelessness in T\u0101maki-makau-rau and Aotearoa, and what real solutions does his Government have for homeless wh\u0101nau beyond his cruel move-on orders?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ac9f3169ebe0909cccb1469503f85fa\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to the member\u2014and we\u2019ve discussed homelessness in this House before quite significantly\u2014it\u2019s a very complex issue. This Government is supporting, with $550 million a year, agencies and organisations on housing\u2014$5 billion a year. We\u2019ve opened up 300 extra Housing First places. We\u2019ve put $10 million into rough sleeping. Auckland Council now are doing a daily count of homelessness in the Auckland CBD, and typically the numbers are running at 24 to 30 people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002227a684fba062fd05132bab405c4930a2\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00229d86721d798ab0fadc145ef1572365a2\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u0022f3c0a5e1b76ab2f6db92d8bb3e89a333\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f3c0a5e1b76ab2f6db92d8bb3e89a333\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National) (14:08)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: How is conflict in the Middle East affecting the New Zealand economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ff10ce408e533fbb3c1a2c932659a448\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ff10ce408e533fbb3c1a2c932659a448\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:09)\u003C/span\u003E: The most immediate and noticeable impact of the Middle East conflict has been on the price of oil and, therefore, on the price of refined fuels in New Zealand. Prices have risen markedly since the start of the conflict. Petrol has gone up 34 percent and diesel has gone up 86 percent. Petrol and other fuels make up just under 4 percent of the basket of goods and services in the Consumers Price Index, so these price rises will have a direct impact on overall inflation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222fbec7224a20f9e9da02231b2185c03c\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How do fuel prices affect inflation more widely?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a8d50ea5ecc9fcd0e6b8061e7359b30\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: As members know, fuel is a key input for a whole range of industries. An increase in fuel prices will tend to flow through to higher prices for other goods and services in the economy, to the extent that producers pass those costs on. That won\u2019t just happen domestically; we will also import inflation from overseas. Food prices, in particular, will be affected by the present conflict as food production depends on both fuel and fertiliser, both of which are impacted by oil and gas prices. We can anticipate that inflation forecasts will be higher than previously expected, at least in the short term. The Reserve Bank will release its next set of forecasts on 27 May, and the Treasury will follow suit the day after, in the Budget update.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229568dd58da1a0233294d89dd5033f8be\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: Given the importance of fuel, is there enough supply in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bbb2f767d23666c18b517777d8ea0a8\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Current advice is that fuel supply remains sufficient. New Zealand has 58.7 days of petrol, 52.2 days of diesel, and 46.2 days of jet fuel in country, within our exclusive economic zone, and on the water heading here. That data is updated twice-weekly using maritime tracking and cross-checked against shipping information, giving us a high level of confidence in its accuracy. Overall stock levels remain within normal operating ranges, and there are still no indications of supply disruption. We will continue to monitor fuel stocks, shipments, and international developments closely, and act, if needed, in a measured, targeted, and evidence-based way, ensuring New Zealand remains well supplied and the economy keeps moving.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002226975564406e08a3b749604cdda5416b\u0022\u003ENancy Lu\u003C/span\u003E: How will the conflict affect growth in the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223689adca779d4540badc7b812ef5f1eb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The conflict will have a negative impact on the economy, through prices, but also, potentially, through other channels like shipping disruptions, freight costs, reduced demand for New Zealand exports, financial markets disruption, and greater uncertainty. The Government can take the sharpest edges off for vulnerable New Zealanders, and you\u2019ve seen that with the $50 a week increase in the in-work tax credit, but there is a real cost from this conflict: New Zealand is poorer because of these global events. How big that impact is depends on how the conflict evolves and how it gets resolved. Again, the Reserve Bank and Treasury will release their updated forecasts in May.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002255cb1255931dd530ec4beb3abb2a3f84\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022fd15242aca22be3387d3f56143ef20c9\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u0022c050bbaa52e9814d4f11d12096301dd4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c050bbaa52e9814d4f11d12096301dd4\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (14:12)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u002281c03844616d2589b34de79844873db2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c03844616d2589b34de79844873db2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:12)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215906700867e6950e47cb9b4ebee8ebb\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why has the Government prioritised an almost 80\u00A0percent pay rise for the directors of Fire and Emergency New Zealand, while front-line firefighters are getting no pay rise and have to continue to work in unsafe conditions with equipment that keeps breaking down?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bed4ea5958143a50f12a407a71c1dec0\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as we\u2019ve previously discussed in this House, obviously, our new Government framework on director fees is designed so that we can attract good talent to make very important decisions on governance. There is about $60 billion worth of Government spending, and as that member knows, having lost half of the $66 billion of COVID spending, it\u2019s important that it\u2019s well-governed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002223e52fb6bdb62df4c7dc41e4a7785ad6\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did the Government decide that many families with children who work part-time won\u2019t be eligible for the extra $50 a week fuel payment his Government\u2019s offering?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022449ab53a1d4210128c2ff5fd0c62117d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Because, again, we\u2019re working through the lens of being timely, targeted, and temporary. We\u2019ve got 143,000 families and households that have $50 a week extra to support them. We continue to monitor the situation as to how much more we can do, but we\u2019ll continue to look at it through that lens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022615e4878c68318d44dd105054327b519\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: So if the support is timely and targeted, why is it not targeted towards the families on the lowest incomes with children, who are facing the same fuel price increases as every other family?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ffd5548f4185c77558785259b573ee0f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, it is. That is why we\u2019ve gone through the in-work tax credit where 143,000 families are earning $50 a week. We have been up front: we are not going to repeat the mistakes of COVID that that member created when he was the Prime Minister.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022338258319a922334a97086665c438b75\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The questions weren\u2019t about COVID-19 or the previous Government; they\u2019re about the decisions that this Government has made. They\u2019ve said that they\u2019re targeting support to families; all I\u2019m asking is why they have chosen to target the support in the way they have. It\u2019s nothing to do with the previous Government. New Zealanders aren\u2019t getting this support, low-income New Zealanders with kids, in work, aren\u2019t getting this support, and I\u2019ve asked the Prime Minister why that is. It\u2019s not unreasonable to expect an answer that doesn\u2019t attack the previous Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022caa38c58a94c2af517dc882a396fb148\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and I was about to say that the Prime Minister would do well not to reference the previous Government in a way that\u2019s not related to the immediate question. You can sort of say, \u201CWell it is related because of this or that.\u201D, but the particular point that a member was responsible for the actions of a whole Government is also quite unreasonable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022da98403d5e6eb47e9c9cb2d1a539dec1\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Why did his Government decide that low-income workers who don\u2019t have children won\u2019t be eligible to receive any additional financial support, given that in many cases they will still be facing the same increase in fuel costs as New Zealanders with children?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7d075072e5563ec3e75ffa881dbf9e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I have previously explained, this is a Government that recognises there is huge pressure on households and businesses up and down this country because of this fuel crisis. We are doing everything we can to support Kiwis, but we are also not going to repeat the mistakes of COVID that led to a 32-year high in inflation and $180 billion worth of debt, and so the frame is very simple. We need to be economically responsible so we don\u2019t drive, and have a further impact on, inflation and debt, which ends up causing huge pain and suffering to New Zealanders, which is what they\u2019ve experienced. On the other hand, they need timely, targeted, temporary support, which is what we have done through the delivery of relief to 143,000 families.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022713304b0991215a78d5ccd1b2d897755\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government have a finite amount of money to spend, or does he subscribe to the economic philosophy of Fred Dagg that we can always borrow a few billion more?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223257dbad337c26f6ffce85516add3dc2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I think the learning from COVID, as talked about in the royal commission of inquiry, was that it\u2019s all very easy to fire a cash bazooka around. That creates lots of short-term gain, but it creates endless long-term pain. We only have to look at the last two years to see the pain and suffering that low and middle income working New Zealanders have endured because of reckless economic management through the COVID period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022109406c1dab66917a0530d937d1d07e9\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Government believe that low-income New Zealanders with children and who are working part-time are less deserving of additional support than low-income New Zealanders with children and who are getting the support?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f4720db60fbd15d5965b188370faf8c8\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I said to the member, this is a Government that will continue to look at what more we can do to support vulnerable New Zealanders in this difficult time. The first initiative that we have supported is that of 143,000 working families with children having $50 per week. That\u2019s a temporary increase, it\u2019s targeted, and it\u2019s very timely.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022db01b49e8b98c1a04e1d6abc82d350b4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the Government now considering extra financial support for care and support workers; if so, does he regret unilaterally cancelling their pay equity claim that could have seen them getting that support two years ago?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4c7583d5624cab4d8bede2c0d024d69\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019d just say to the member, it has been well canvassed. The Minister has been taking advice on that particular topic about healthcare workers\u2014we\u2019ll have more to say about that very shortly. But with respect to pay equity, there is still a pay equity regime in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b890af47330d2133dd74b4aa54ce04b9\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You cancelled it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0a8007f9d7aa48ccd6bce10034cd083\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: No. What has happened is that it was unworkable and it was unaffordable, and I look forward to the member saying whether or not he will reinstate another $10 billion to be able to go back to what he previously put in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022277a94813112a559fb6b4115f6c15cb5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: If a pay equity regime is still available to care and support workers, why did his own Government pass a law that specifically prohibited care and support workers raising a new pay equity claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a1690ed66e1f07bd9ea29ec84e0c1d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: We have a pay equity regime in this country that is now workable and affordable. We encourage members to actually launch claims. We have put money aside to support those claims. But I just say that the member needs to be very up front with New Zealand about where he is going to find the $10 billion to $11\u00A0billion to support his policy and the reversal of that change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226922f94d958524711b57b2754597f45a\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is he not aware that his Government specifically passed a law that prevents care and support workers raising a new pay equity claim?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c700e59f9b4509580f0e29abe9d35cac\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m well aware that our Government passed a law to make sure an unworkable system and an unaffordable system is now workable and affordable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ea20ff06052848f5105529d7e0f1ebb6\u0022\u003ESocial Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a6b9c1ae27fa375433bb08ab74e09f91\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2a37014b2f58e9576ca1c6aeb120a56\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2a37014b2f58e9576ca1c6aeb120a56\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki) (14:18)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Social Development and Employment\u003C/span\u003E: What changes to welfare supports will come into effect today to help respond to cost of living pressures?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022d173cc0ba006e2f4f49a3764565402d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d173cc0ba006e2f4f49a3764565402d8\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (14:19)\u003C/span\u003E: As global fuel price challenges continue to impact Kiwis, from today more than 1.5 million New Zealanders will receive extra support in their pockets. The increased support will come from the Ministry of Social Development\u2019s annual adjustments. The people who will benefit include students, working-age beneficiaries, and superannuitants, as well as non-beneficiaries getting supplementary assistance. Our Government is determined to keep progressing sensible, measured changes that provide some relief to those impacted by the cost of living challenges.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8cf083cbc67231b9eac5b8531d39a2c\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: How will students be better off as a result of these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002281c4f5832795e7136ca4fe0b6df46699\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: From today, students will receive a boost in support for living costs. Around 52,000 students receiving student allowance and loans will get an increase in financial support\u2014for example, a single person over the age of 24 receiving the student allowance will gain an additional $22 a fortnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d11d3fa956a38a454ef865fc1d4182cd\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: How will seniors, like those in K\u0101piti, be better off from today\u2019s changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd9a040868972bba760e5e149218865f\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Nine hundred and sixty thousand Kiwis receiving superannuation and veterans pension will get more money in their pockets. Superannuation for a married couple who both qualify will lift more than $50, to $1,708 a fortnight. This is an increase of over $180 since the 2023 general election, which, of course, has helped to ease the cost of living pressures.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229fc11e24bc02c7af223928fadd868a67\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Who else will benefit from these changes?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022deda610a21dcee2535475fdfa7b7bfa7\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: Four hundred and thirty-five thousand working-age beneficiaries will get increased support for the cost of living, and approximately 67,000 non-beneficiaries will get an increase in their supplementary assistance. A couple with children, receiving jobseeker support, will receive an increase of more than $40 a fortnight. A sole parent receiving sole parent support will receive an increase of more than $30 a fortnight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fd7cf06f22b888a9dff7d5ea90d65143\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: How can she claim that this is a new cost of living measure when this happens automatically every single year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f118b6c76bce975d70c4e79c6c933a50\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ac151c655bdaa77070865ca7f633956e\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002238decf387fbc611cbf9f873bfa663330\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u00224bb512493c35dd13fa9deb6a78d32a3c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224bb512493c35dd13fa9deb6a78d32a3c\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (14:21)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDoes he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions\u003C/span\u003E?]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u00224c5930454e12b9a3e62e38c9fef4c387\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224c5930454e12b9a3e62e38c9fef4c387\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:21)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b91146e0190c1d1f669711926ab3a6de\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement from question time yesterday that \u201CWe care about working New Zealanders and we\u2019re making sure that we can support the most vulnerable as best we possibly can.\u201D, and, if so, what will he do today to address the impacts of rapidly rising fossil fuel prices on care and support workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002243337b47b338af9bedd49b5612e2c25d\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ad4783ef55e667b9436d92a86f18bd6b\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: What does he think the impact is on people who are sick or need health support when care workers are reporting, \u201CI had to call in sick on Monday because my car was too low on fuel and I had to wait on my partner\u2019s student allowance so I could put fuel in my car and go to work the next day.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c36089feb14f52a12459ce8e8e100cd2\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why the Minister\u2019s taking advice on it. We\u2019ll have more to say about it shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a5e76f63a466f6016c46e218c293229\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: I seek leave to table a document that is not publicly available, with feedback from providers under the Home and Community Health Association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff8d4a91d11997db7d47ac4c8b9deaef\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: What\u2019s the source of it?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220a3a663532ad1d32e89b83d240f52863\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: It is feedback from the Home and Community Health\u2014correspondence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002249286a9a805da836a0916581aeb44579\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Where did you get it from? Where does it come from?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bcb7bff3998f9fd6ea0d5e1343b48d7f\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Correspondence, Mr Speaker, that is not publicly available.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b2b073e9a868c8298ebb17b9cc4777b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EDocument, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227921c66f1dadb39d04cc678e1ed4ed89\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Is he comfortable with care workers having to use Afterpay to recover their fuel costs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c8b7481a1cd3dd87897fde67c1d4fb84\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to my first question, the Minister has been taking advice with respect to care workers, and we\u2019ll have more to say about that shortly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274efdf1dd625c8289d7ff5234241f35a\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Is he comfortable with reports of support workers reducing or refusing visits to remote clients because they can\u2019t afford to fill up their cars?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022670145b533ef15fa2a504c584dd4e57a\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said, we are a Government that is freely admitting we will not be able to alleviate the pressure on everybody across the country. We know it\u2019s an incredibly difficult time for households and businesses, but our frame is very clear. We need to be economically responsible so we don\u2019t hurt working New Zealanders with higher levels of inflation and more debt, but, equally, we need to make sure we\u2019re doing everything we can to give them timely, targeted, and temporary support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227689a957db9d2ca1fdf23e7907320f5a\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Will he commit to providing temporary, targeted, and timely relief to care workers by implementing immediate, short-term, in-between travel funding increases to cover the gap between current fuel prices and existing reimbursement rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f6c2ed606923355a917c3c64b3ffacbe\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve already answered that with my previous answers. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3df7670b35b80003b50e74fb4f65bc6\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226a00b532f14e20b1489adcf7efea02b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before you go\u2014when a question is being asked, all the way through, the House listens to it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f45b229c80c50513e30b515ca56f11b3\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to table two letters addressed to the Minister of Finance, both from the Home and Community Health Association, requesting the Minister consider urgent fuel cost relief for care and support workers, and neither of these letters are available publicly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b0c139fee545e0f00f113e37accd2777\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, but they\u2019re not\u2014whose letters are they?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b4b9f2b3effba829686902ff36af63a2\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Correspondence from the Home and Community Health Association.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d096b545b885929e86d0ff6d2e3c53c6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Copied to you? Leave is sought. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EDocuments, by leave, laid on the Table of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bf9af1b024f915d8426afee85502901\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f4dede202e8f5c018182bcd93b6654b1\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223b43f68600e1182c7f29cbde7147836c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022183558b055f0bc263e8a1419ab7e0276\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022183558b055f0bc263e8a1419ab7e0276\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana) (14:25)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: Has Treasury revised its inflation \u201Cworst case scenario\u201D on 16 March of 3.7\u00A0percent; if so, what are its latest inflation forecasts?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u002214fb406fda3cf6de9ed92397960c1d41\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214fb406fda3cf6de9ed92397960c1d41\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:25)\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the second part of the question, Treasury\u2019s latest inflation forecasts are in December\u2019s half-year update, but they are clearly out of date. Treasury is developing its next set of forecasts for the Budget update in May, and I anticipate that alongside their central forecast, they will present another of upside and downside risks to those forecasts. That, of course, reflects the uncertainty around how the conflict in the Middle East will evolve. In terms of the first part of the question and the 16 March scenario referred to, I can confirm the Treasury has subsequently developed further stylised scenarios to highlight possible macroeconomic impacts associated with the ongoing conflict in the Middle East. These involve a number of judgments and assumptions about how severe the disruption will be, how long it will last, and how oil prices will respond. These do not describe a worst-case scenario but, rather, the worst among a group of illustrative scenarios. They are not forecasts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6d87762a4b90d616650d3cb9995562d\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Why can\u2019t she share the latest stylised, high-level, and general scenarios and assumptions given that she has just confirmed that she has received some?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba4dce9e3e70cc0cb4d73006f60b9bf2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I will absolutely present the forecasts in May, and I expect that they will be significantly worse than the forecasts previously presented. I\u2019m not going to give a running commentary on all the discussions Treasury has with me as they develop their understanding of how the conflict will impact the economy. The member will be well aware that a number of economists in New Zealand and across the world have developed varying views on how the conflict will unfold and its impact for macroeconomic conditions. It is fair to say, as I said in my answer to the earlier question today, that events in the Middle East have made New Zealand poorer, they will be negative for our inflation rate and for the cost of living, and they will be destructive of growth.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a95ebe63cc1d8a06f278b253bf53cf6\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with ASB\u2019s forecast of inflation reaching 4.2\u00A0percent by the middle of the year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc23f4aeaa33a3047b34b8f87d0151a0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not my responsibility to agree or disagree with a particular forecast. As I just noted in my earlier answer, there are a range of forecasts from bank economists and others that predict a higher rate of inflation this year than would have been the case without the Middle East conflict. It is my view that I concur that inflation will go higher this year as a result of the Middle East conflict. How much higher it goes depends on the decisions and judgments of leaders in countries on the other side of the world. I join the Prime Minister and our Government in wishing for a cessation to the conflict, a negotiated outcome, and the resumption of the normal passage of oil and refined fuels in the world, because that is what is required to bring down the price of fuel in New Zealand and to strengthen our economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220d93618c48e10a0aca9821346309c5ba\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Nicola Willis, Opposition finance spokesperson in May 2022, who said, \u201Cit can\u2019t simply blame these issues on overseas factors\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d710ebd1817cee9bd2e7324637dc0e44\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely, I do. It\u2019s not enough to just say, \u201Coverseas factors meant I had to throw out the rule book and take bad decisions\u201D. The grave responsibility we now have as a Government is to take these world events and control our response to blunt the impacts, and that is exactly what we are doing. We are making sure that we have a plan for responding to disrupted fuel supply. We\u2019re making sure that our own spending decisions don\u2019t make that inflation spiral more vicious than it might otherwise be. We have choices, and we will take our choices responsibly. I remain of the view, which the royal commission shares with me, that the last Government did not take those choices responsibly, made our inflation spiral deeper, and our debt hole deeper than it need have been.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f0cf3289b0551d0207b9efa48910870f\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Would the right policy response to this crisis be to borrow billions to spend it on things \u201Cthat we were going to do anyway\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf6f9d98f720498272ef62ad5bd691ea\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that that is the position of some members of this House and the way they responded to previous global events. What is the case, and I\u2019m sure that members opposite would quite agree with me on this, is that our world is more fragile today than it has been in some time. In the midst of that fragility, our Government has a responsibility to ensure that New Zealand is as strong as possible, to see its way through not just the next few weeks and months, members, but potentially the next few years. Putting us in a position where we are highly indebted and fragile, subject to global interest rate fluctuations, and unable to finance public services is not a position I am prepared to take. It is also the case that we need to be careful that our choices don\u2019t inadvertently add to the inflation fire.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292b6eb13b1411fb5efa8490b1864c736\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f53fb9d7b59c4eac417eee6adf0b9d0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just a moment. Only one person speaking when a question\u2019s called.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e199ef5334e3d5f08c64e321bf60d06f\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How will she \u201Cblunt the impact\u201D on care and support workers who are reportedly having to refuse jobs because they cannot afford the fuel to get there?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ece26935ce8b13aa205bb758850ccca2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: The Government will make an announcement on that tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcdd0a70b0dd7809bc174ca89815d379\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How will she \u201Cblunt the impact\u201D on a net 93 percent of businesses who are expecting costs to increase?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cda5c302356f1c070dc5b7d441a549ce\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: It is not within my power to end the conflict in the Middle East. However, I know that to blunt the impact on New Zealand firms, it is essential that we do everything we can to ensure they continue to have the fuel supplies needed to support jobs, incomes, and economic activity. It is also the case that the Government must take a measured and careful fiscal response, which should include temporary, timely, and targeted measures to offer support where it is required, and which should include engaging extremely closely with business and industry to make sure their views are at the fore as we continue to execute our fuel response plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222f01419caa524c69b3e21006ad2dd3cc\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002269a13e96f12f277f53fccd4ee2877f8c\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d39c9a69ac8b75b03a234ad8c7b7d6c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d39c9a69ac8b75b03a234ad8c7b7d6c9\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier) (14:32)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: What announcements has he made regarding Cyclone Gabrielle recovery work in the Napier to Wairoa corridor?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u002255a6faaba255c3193d41c2b0e31eefbf\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002255a6faaba255c3193d41c2b0e31eefbf\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport) (14:32)\u003C/span\u003E: As we know, transport infrastructure across the North Island was hit hard in recent years by intense rainfall and events like Cyclone Gabrielle, which caused widespread damage, triggered slips, and forced the temporary closure of key State highway connections, which I know the member will be well aware of as the local MP. Our priority has been restoring these connections as quickly as possible. Yesterday, we announced that recovery work on the Napier to Wairoa corridor following Cyclone Gabrielle has been completed. The final asphalting is now done, meaning the 4-kilometre road rebuild at State Highway 2\u2014known as \u201CDevil\u2019s Elbow\u201D\u2014is once again open to traffic. It\u2019s a major milestone in recovery works in Hawke\u2019s Bay and will mean a more efficient connection between Wairoa and Napier.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c2f318605ebb8eb6b4e5e94a9fb91dc\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What was involved in the rebuild of State Highway 2, Devil\u2019s Elbow?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92e25acf7c12b4f78cf94f82255312e\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: There were crews from local contractors working alongside Transport Rebuild East Coast (TREC) since 2023 to repair that extensive damage. It\u2019s a particularly narrow and winding section of the road\u2014very challenging conditions\u2014and I want to thank all the contractors who have worked hard on that. Since Cyclone Gabrielle, there have been 11 recovery projects along this corridor. Major underslip repairs include a 12-metre-high retaining wall where a 40-metre long and 10-metre high underslip took out the southbound lane. They\u2019ve also completed a full culvert replacement and repair programme to improve stormwater management, helping ensure the impacts of any future adverse weather events are minimised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002203a31697c3cc8a3f33b0f4d4ee8961cf\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CWaste of money.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223e21fef5d43d4f18315162ef34cade5c\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What progress is being made on other Cyclone Gabrielle works required for Hawke\u2019s Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fc26651b010d34434a683db0824b983c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Quite to the contrary of mutterings from the other side that these projects are a \u201Cwaste of money\u201D\u2014the local residents of Napier and Wairoa and the Napier electorate will be interested to discover that members opposite consider these projects a waste of money\u2014we are, in fact, making good progress. The final repairs are under way on Rail Bridge 217, the rail line between Hastings and Napier, expected to be completed by the middle of the year. Crews are also still working hard on underslips at State Highway 38 between Lake Waikaremoana and T\u016Bai. Repairs will help restore the road to its original width, improve resilience, and keep communities connected. Work on these projects will continue into the middle of this year and will be the final TREC projects delivered in Hawke\u2019s Bay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b78c4779edfdbbd5f0e1f6695e4c52f\u0022\u003EEducation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f77b4d554b2fa7e24a2ad855b5d4bc1a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022 data-id=\u0022fbad7fdf1a3bf43285a3fd1684d6f0b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fbad7fdf1a3bf43285a3fd1684d6f0b8\u0022\u003EDr LAWRENCE XU-NAN (Green) (14:35)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Education\u003C/span\u003E: Will she commit to maintaining at least the current level of delivery for school transport and access to learning during the fossil-fuel price spike? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e71ef5d94c1de273b14627b4fcadbfa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e71ef5d94c1de273b14627b4fcadbfa0\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Education) (14:35)\u003C/span\u003E: In the face of increasing fuel prices, the Government is committed to students being able to access and attend school. It is this Government\u2019s priority to ensure that students are learning in school as learning was significantly disrupted by COVID, and our Government will be prioritising making sure children are learning in classrooms. The situation in the Middle East is dynamic, and, as you would expect, the Ministry of Education is planning for a range of different scenarios.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b14a761a90babe60297965e525116f5\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Has she sought advice on options to support school transport providers\u2014which includes specialised school transport assistance providers\u2014with the extra costs they are facing to continue delivering current services, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fb02aec1a3093434fa6a6bbc1e7d895\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I have told the media this week, at the moment the Ministry of Education, at my direction, has been out contacting individual schools and working with school transport providers to understand the range of different challenges in different situations. We\u2019re gathering all that data and information, and, as you would expect, we\u2019re planning for a range of different scenarios, depending on what happens in this very dynamically shifting environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e450f7dd6eae38b4fa7dca7007b0e15\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Will she commit to increasing the specialised school transport assistance conveyance allowance above 27c per kilometre, given Auckland Transport has said that with current fuel costs, a typical 15-kilometre trip costs around 80c per kilometre in fuel, and, if not, does she accept that the status quo will drive some families further into hardship?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002274cd66c848564869312e815f91ac8977\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve already stated, the Ministry of Education is gathering that information at the moment. All options are on the table, as of course you would expect in that dynamically shifting environment. We are planning for a range of different scenarios. There is a range of different challenges, and we will plan accordingly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bab5b7cfe8c331352ccb171eefa9ac91\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that if she does not put in extra funding for greater access to school transport, school attendance will decline when around half of all students drive or are driven to school in private passenger vehicles, and transport costs have risen by at least a third in the last month and are projected to climb much higher?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e81e802ff9e0788c0f6ac3a2a40c0bbf\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Firstly, can I say that I need to congratulate and thank parents for prioritising getting their children to school, because what we have seen is that school attendance has held at broadly the same rate as it was at this time last year. There are, as I\u2019ve already said, shifting things happening\u2014there is a dynamic situation happening. We understand that as these things change, we will need to change our settings. The Ministry of Education is already out gathering all that information and putting together future plans, depending on what happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022bac3dcb6103a48d3bcead8563342a856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022048fb7a545fe0d2a8df2ac0d9e5823df\u0022\u003EDr Lawrence Xu-Nan\u003C/span\u003E: Will she make a temporary and targeted and timely relaxation of school transport eligibility requirements to allow currently ineligible students to catch school buses to get to school during the fossil fuel crisis, and, if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022831f5ca7e0c3c8564ca1853318eb0cb6\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: As I\u2019ve said in every answer to every single question today, everything is on the table, depending on what happens in a dynamically shifting environment. We\u2019re gathering together a range of options. We\u2019re responding to this, and at the right time, we will be able to announce those. But my job is to make sure\u2014as this Government has already said\u2014that schools remain open, that children are able to get to school, and that school transport is available to them. That is my priority.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221b39f54144c62835f67a9e4c337b3050\u0022\u003EEnergy\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022eef90497d4d016a576cb97032cd4e268\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022 data-id=\u00226e622b2c4fded5d7dec95579eec8ba4c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e622b2c4fded5d7dec95579eec8ba4c\u0022\u003EHon Dr MEGAN WOODS (Labour\u2014Wigram) (14:39)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EAssociate Minister for Energy\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all his statements and actions? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002250e1e76bac295533ec97dd3f3fd75149\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002250e1e76bac295533ec97dd3f3fd75149\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Associate Minister for Energy) (14:39)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, especially when the Minister gave her consent for the decommissioning of the refinery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224b08c84928a46139227cb62e58111e15\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014sorry, Mr Jones. We\u2019ve been through this yesterday and the day before\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022082eb45319d1a1df5da81a484e05fb50\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Speaking to a point of order\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229a18cf420681ec16e3419ef0c62465a5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no, I\u2019m speaking, so I\u2019ll give you a point of order in a minute. It\u2019s not appropriate for a Government Minister, answering for the Government, to make an interpretation of a Cabinet paper which is of a type not unusual for Cabinets to consider.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223eb817ab7ca8f8bdda16a87fbdf242b1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. It falls to me to educate the House\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002276eb90105aeea73413f801a1a21bee07\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: You don\u2019t do that by way of point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7087818ae4e6fa9bdfb01dbd9fcd641\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Figuratively, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e3fe8f93aac8891c1fc7cf3d7e0a368\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, a point of order has to be about order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002210e7d826b271ac8d51595b535ee93ed1\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: OK. The point of order that I\u2019m raising is my reference to a statutory consent issued by that member pertaining to her role where she agreed with Ampol purchasing the refinery and agreeing with the continuation of the decommissioning of the refinery, which would not have happened had she not issued her consent as an overseas investment officer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d21d33fb98c80f473ac0e526a2dba440\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I\u2019m in a position now where I don\u2019t know what that procedure was, and that puts me in a difficult position. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] No, no; it\u2019s all right, I don\u2019t need your help. I would just suggest that if you\u2019re answering something in the nature that you were, make it very clear what its relationship is to the Government\u2019s response to the topic of the questioner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002227ce5d395a680d5a7185321e918cdf94\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Did he see advice that it was possible to fund a 70 million litre strategic reserve of diesel with the surplus built up in the Petroleum or Engine Fuels Monitoring levy fund account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dab203b5dfd18a422ca1c994deae1b12\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: It is time for us to strip the fiction away. At no point had Megan Woods either sought a budgetary allocation, nor did she have the necessary permits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bd9015db6e812e7e786be8efb6fbe0f1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on. You can\u2019t talk about what a previous Government did.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbd858eb9695ef62927f6c0e3ce408c2\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, sir.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288a5fbcdd355a24a0c2f92dc77e41eaa\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, no. it\u2019s not a point of order because I\u2019m still talking. And so the question was\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] No one else is talking while I am. The question was had he received information. Anyone\u2019s welcome to come to the Standing Orders and change the way we do things. But at the moment, it has to relate to the Government\u2019s activity. That\u2019s what question time is for.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a9510c178a2b833e8eb6d2147d8443c6\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. In actual fact, in seeking the information and seeking advice, I was advised about the proposal pertaining to additional storage, pertaining to advice that the Crown spent money on adding to storage capacity in New Zealand, and I was advised that the former Minister had no budget, no necessary statutory consents. So I can\u2019t answer the question unless I share with New Zealanders what is the truth. After all, I said yesterday that I just represent righteousness and truth on this issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e012f115d12cbde82a4f1e70e2fe158e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you for the point of order. It has been interesting for the House. Now, to the question; what\u2019s the answer?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f27c4f3f487a84e6c687a352842923b\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Could she ask it again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e090d2ce034b5901199620e3ca067b60\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Did he see advice that it was possible to fund the 70 million litre strategic reserve of diesel with the surplus built up in the Petroleum or Engine Fuels Monitoring levy fund account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228fa51dafa17827be5b97d363df95c63d\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Ah, yes. I have sought advice on this issue and I have been advised that the 960 million litres worth of fuel we may have access to by dint of international options was paid for by money in a levy account. That money has been well spent, and, of course, it could not have been spent on an imaginary, non-existent dream.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202e8d34a522690636eaa1dd2bd8fd9f1\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Did he see the advice that the accumulated surplus in the levy account fund would grow to $74.4 million by 30 June 2023 and $110 million by 30 June 2025?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296814cad13003cbd566e7355bbac6419\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. I\u2019m very happy to report that the funding, having gone into the levy account referred to, has enabled us to secure 960 million litres of fuel. Had that money been squandered to meet the threshold of some scribbling left behind by the member as she fled from her office, we wouldn\u2019t have access to the 960 million litres.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227b98488b481d22e75a14f518a441279b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The latter part of that is not at all helpful. The authoritative part at the front most certainly is of use to the public, but the last part not at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221a7f1cfbfde4ef8b9df10953e5b637c2\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: What is the current balance of the levy account?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e3c4eeab84a67bbb3a65e491c36a2ab3\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: If the member would write me a letter, I will respond appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7f530c19d63f16c6559a3ae5da85248\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. The Minister can\u2019t possibly stand by the previous answers that he\u2019s given if he doesn\u2019t know what the balance is. Megan Woods\u2019 question was specifically about the surplus. Shane Jones has said that the surplus wasn\u2019t available to fund the storage that the previous Government had committed to, yet he can\u2019t say whether the surplus even still exists. How can he have given the previous answers if he doesn\u2019t know that answer to that question?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022239e8ec1c937975bd96d50f0b7126ac8\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No; in sequence, he said that the money had been used to buy some 900\u00A0million litres of fuel and is therefore spent. The question asked, \u201CWhat is the balance of the account?\u201D, and that would obviously change on a day-by-day basis. So I don\u2019t think it\u2019s unreasonable to say a written question might get an answer that tracks it over time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002254aa7c61326f4a0395e6e4031c554ba3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002289b1704e6f0e6f6fd547a175176aa757\u0022\u003EHon Dr Megan Woods\u003C/span\u003E: Is he still making claims about Labour and Marsden Point because he scrapped Labour\u2019s fully funded plan and is now trying to cover up his own failure to prepare our country in a fuel crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022040f701945b56ae5247fd2e3dd4f0ae9\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Far be it for me to add to such tawdry discussions. This is a serious issue where Kiwis are deeply concerned about the cost of living, the security of fuel, and options going forward. It really doesn\u2019t uphold the status of the House\u2014that tawdry contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227643ea711fefacfce9524cf35c7b0220\u0022\u003EHealth\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022802f51d766e30630b1539d9d69845a19\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022e252f9b790a95c80bc244f34f78f60ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e252f9b790a95c80bc244f34f78f60ae\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (14:47)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Health\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has he made on health infrastructure in South Auckland?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022 data-id=\u002213615b5cc63ae072af38488a1b964c95\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002213615b5cc63ae072af38488a1b964c95\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN (Minister of Health) (14:47)\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, Health New Zealand began the next step towards delivering a future hospital for South Auckland, with a targeted process now under way to identify and acquire land in the Drury area. This is about getting ahead of growth, ensuring we secure the right site early, and laying the foundations for a major new health precinct that will serve its surrounding communities for decades to come. We\u2019re getting on with the job so Aucklanders can have confidence that their health services will be there when they need them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204e7cf8624427a6d4f5c99c5b4a9f095\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Why is South Auckland a priority for future development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022766d7f0b02d5e0dde5bd8bf8bd2684c0\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: South Auckland and North Waikato are some of the fastest-growing regions in the country, whilst also having some of the highest health needs in New Zealand. These communities experience higher rates of infectious disease and long-term conditions, while existing hospitals like Middlemore and Auckland City are already faced with increased demand. The next step recognises both the scale of growth and the need to ensure access to timely healthcare in this part of Auckland.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002273075edb9a4dc3714146ab30dba8b7fd\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What will new health facilities in South Auckland mean for patients?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224fadcbc674aba618e3c0f0633f1eee54\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: A new hospital in South Auckland will mean better access to care closer to home. Drury was identified as a strong location due to its proximity to key transport corridors, including our roads of regional significance and planned public transport connections, making it easier for patients, staff, and visitors to access care. Over time, this will reduce pressure on existing hospitals, improve wait times, and ensure that Aucklanders can have confidence that high-quality healthcare will be there when they need it. This is all part of our wider plan to improve health infrastructure across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228327d10f64dd2e39d4b30640f9ab281c\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: What are the next steps in this process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002276109ca9c1c74181a1e2734802d7f46f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022478fe1686a2bc10a7c1ef162f59f5a80\u0022\u003EHon SIMEON BROWN\u003C/span\u003E: Health New Zealand has issued a request for a proposal to landowners identified following an earlier request for information, released to market in October 2025. The site of the land being sought would enable a wide range of future health developments, including a major general hospital. This is a critical early step that allows us to plan with certainty, ensuring the future investment is well located, properly scoped, and able to meet the needs of a growing population.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226442291a79cad39f235df19915a5378b\u0022\u003EEmergency Management and Recovery\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022edec65b0f9ed6b92f4ae38c23a72db7b\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022 data-id=\u0022002d04a44b88c5db0a61ea71226b100d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022002d04a44b88c5db0a61ea71226b100d\u0022\u003ECUSHLA TANGAERE-MANUEL (Labour\u2014Ikaroa-R\u0101whiti) (14:49)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Emergency Management and Recovery\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his answer to oral question No. 10 on Tuesday, 31 March regarding civil defence and emergency services, \u201Cthey\u2019re already well prepared but there is a lot of contingency work going across all Government agencies because we have to take a responsible approach to this as a country\u201D; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022 data-id=\u0022f9ab3b3632d47143a70cfbe167a5e92c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f9ab3b3632d47143a70cfbe167a5e92c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK (Associate Minister for Emergency Management and Recovery) (14:50)\u003C/span\u003E on behalf of the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Emergency Management and Recovery\u003C/span\u003E: To the first part of the question, yes. To the second part of the question, because the National Emergency Management Agency (NEMA) is leading work to coordinate with Government agencies as well as non-Government entities to consider coordination in the future hypothetical event of fuel shortages. Of course, at the moment, it\u2019s business as usual for them to be planning for emergencies of various types, including the possibility of concurrent emergencies of a natural disaster type, but also in the event that an emergency of one category coincides with any future fuel shortages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cd679bd2f382309d6ccf5a6b2fae7c80\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: How will he ensure civil defence and emergency services can access critical fuel in the event of a shortage?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223a684bd2ed7dedf64d25232a75140b12\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, I\u2019m very comfortable and confident that NEMA is leading work among emergency response - type agencies, including Police, ambulance services, Fire and Emergency New Zealand, as well as various responding and recovering entities in the communities, including iwi and hap\u016B but not limited to them, of course. I\u2019m comfortable that work\u2019s taking place. Of course, NEMA is in the business of understanding what prioritisation decisions would need to be made in the event of an emergency, and I\u2019m encouraging them to continue that work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b9593db851a169f6aa841e4ab2131f2d\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: Will there be an all of emergency services response or a response for each of the emergency services in each of the National Fuel Plan\u2019s phases?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022297912856a246030f3abdebb86ddb701\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: The Government\u2019s consulting on what some of the detail of further phases might look like, in particular phases 3 and 4, and so it\u2019s the Government\u2019s advice to submit to its process of understanding critical activities across the economy and society, including but not limited to emergency response. Of course, if, in the circumstance where fuel shortages were to occur, then there would be rationalisation or coordination or prioritisation decisions that would need to be made then in response to those unique and particular circumstances. In the meantime, effort to understand what those decisions might need to be based upon is exactly what\u2019s occurring now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a1301a8b862e88ce54a1ca68dfe9774\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The question was very specifically in relation to whether there would be an all of emergency services response or a response for each of the emergency services. He explained process that might go around making that decision, but it was very specifically about whether it\u2019s all of emergency services or a response for each of the emergency services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244ceffc11f22321b0161065f22f8b81f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, but the member knows that you can\u2019t expect answers in the nature of a yes or no, and when the Minister said that this is under discussion at the moment, then, clearly, there can\u2019t be an answer as strong as that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b05ac1affed6958ee7dd4764a334f78b\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: Who has the authority to trigger priority access for emergency services in the event that diesel stocks decline faster than forecast?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dbaaaf4ccbfdf6e5b6e5a8ccb6de94f0\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, as with the previous question, the fact of a consultation taking place as to what might take place in a phases 3 and 4, should we need to reach those levels, decisions will be made, no doubt, about the prioritisation of fuel but also the command and control aspects of who would make what decisions and at what junctures in terms of any fuel shortage. So it\u2019s impossible to answer with clarity at that point, but, suffice to say, the considerations that the member\u2019s raising, I think, are good ones but are being contemplated as part of the Government\u2019s planning and submission process for those phases 3 and 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220fe7508c7b8a47378c4c88fe1ce69fcb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cd22d91c6eb26299039291cb2cc652d\u0022\u003ECushla Tangaere-Manuel\u003C/span\u003E: What is the trigger point at which the Government would formally activate priority fuel access for civil defence and emergency services?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022624b5e5ecd274e178a4554c1ae59f723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c480eff5a831d077eac51bbeed3ce947\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS PENK\u003C/span\u003E: On behalf of the Minister, it\u2019s not clear to me that it would necessarily be within my ministerial remit to make such decisions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b32feb8ed17f020df8596c2eaaa493d2\u0022\u003EFood Safety\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002232e63cfd5f9a3fc4e5e25b1ab5352ed1\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u0022644ce105e2bb398e85e1cbcfb3bec48c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022644ce105e2bb398e85e1cbcfb3bec48c\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT) (14:54)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Food Safety\u003C/span\u003E: What advice, if any, has he received on the potential impact of the current global fuel supply disruptions on food safety in New Zealand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022 data-id=\u0022a3a6f28e5d2b2835f35409748be153ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a3a6f28e5d2b2835f35409748be153ae\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD (Minister for Food Safety) (14:54)\u003C/span\u003E: The availability of hygienic, food-grade packaging underpins New Zealand\u2019s world-class food safety system and relies on the supply of both oil and fuel. Businesses report that sufficient packaging is available. We are working closely with domestic and export-focused food businesses to ensure their on-hand stocks of packaging are sufficient. We are monitoring medium- to long-term availability as part of the work of the Government\u2019s ministerial oversight group.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231305756de473de6a88f3b717b3cbbfc\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: How can New Zealand\u2019s food safety regulatory system respond if needed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261a1225b6896d7c954fb8135f7f6ecc0\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: Our regulatory system is well placed to support companies to meet any availability challenges because it is not prescriptive about packaging. The legislation is focused on outcomes and is flexible enough for food producers to pivot to alternative supplies without a whole lot of red tape. Food producers will just need to continue to ensure that packaging protects food from contamination, that it is not a source of contamination itself, and that it preserves food quality and advertised shelf life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022605c5396a38c2d6342adbb4d9f8c382d\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: What has he heard from food suppliers about the availability of inputs?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fa370c0016e740998a2816116c8e4365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ca529f3d4c7dd1fb3f4e90017f897ce\u0022\u003EHon ANDREW HOGGARD\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve had a number of farmers contact me with concerns about the availability of both fuel and fertiliser. While I understand there have been some local challenges with getting diesel delivered, overall fuel supply remains sufficient, with good levels of fuel in the country and more on the way. I understand from the fertiliser industry that there is enough product both in New Zealand and ordered to meet demand until spring, and our co-ops have options for securing future supply that they are working through now. Having said that, of course, we are seeing the price of both fuel and fertiliser go up. I just want to say to farmers that at this stage, we just have to keep calm, plan ahead, work closely with suppliers, and make sensible business decisions about the use of inputs, just as we have always done in the past as costs go up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e97166bfcb814d3feebcdf4527c86e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes oral questions. We\u2019ll take 30 seconds before we move to the general debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a62c9a5c1de6833e6eefe26caff9ed5\u0022\u003EDebates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b4aabf9fca0cda28a322625ba5ab64dc\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u0022b6b68a3b48303d6c5f9f2784ba040154\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b6b68a3b48303d6c5f9f2784ba040154\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Oceans and Fisheries) (14:57)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the House take note of miscellaneous business\u003C/span\u003E. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EToday is 1 April. Apparently, April Fools\u2019 Day stopped at 12 o\u2019clock, but the fools are still sitting over there, fooling themselves that they\u2019re not responsible for the degradation of fuel storage in New Zealand, and fooling themselves that they\u2019re not responsible for the loss of Marsden Point, the erosion of economic resilience, and the weakening of national security. They can dance on the head of a pin, but it was Megan Woods\u2014when she let the foreign investors come into the company owning the refinery\u2014who signed off, as an overseas investment Minister, the decommissioning of the refinery. That fact cannot be eradicated. It will be understood. It will be repeated until midnight before the election as to where true blame lies for this terrible situation that we have inherited. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, there\u2019s something worse: there is the confusion, there is the ambiguity, and there is the running and hiding from accountability and responsibility related to all of the perfidy of COVID. Now, Ayesha Verrall\u2014where did this woman come from? How come, from utter obscurity, Jacinda Ardern plucked that individual and appointed her as the cleverest person in the history of New Zealand on public health? Then, when she is challenged by my leader in recent times, she\u2019s skulking, hiding, and refusing to stand up and explain to the public why she and the current Leader of the Opposition refused to stand up for the parents and the children who were unnecessarily vaccinated against scientific advice warning the Government of the time \u201Cdo not endanger the lives of our children.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENo. We have something as authoritative as the royal commission, who has clearly identified where that blame\u2014where that culpability\u2014lies. But, no, this hitherto unknown personality of obscure origins plonked in here by Jacinda Ardern now won\u2019t say a word. I doubt whether her public health qualifications actually enable her to hold that position. Fortunately, she\u2019ll never be the Minister of Health. I see a Simeon Brown long arc of leadership and responsibility in health. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t go much further without sharing good news such as the tremendous response that my leader and I have had about minerals policy. I look forward to advancing the prospects with suitable partners\u2014indeed the United States of America\u2014so we can open up, we can exploit, and we can create value out of our critical minerals, and I don\u2019t want to hear all these Green fairytale Luddites who don\u2019t understand economics, people who hate fossil fuels but every day demand to know how the Government\u2019s going to find more money to pay for fossil fuels. None of them has arrived on a 10-speed, because, at best, they\u2019ve got one-speed minds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENo; mining, digging, drilling\u2014if there\u2019s one thing that the Iran war shows us, we must use our own resources. Sadly, I\u2019m going to be proven right. It\u2019s actually quite a common experience in my wh\u0101nau. We see an ongoing need for the utilisation not only of gas but also of coal. Who on earth are these CEOs of gentailers of New Zealand\u2014who are for the knacker\u2019s yard, as I\u2019ve said on earlier occasions\u2014to try and undermine our Minister for Energy and make fun, parody, try and get a cheap laugh out of the audience about his policy of proceeding to bring to us a commercial proposition pertaining to the building of infrastructure to receive gas? What do they do? They try to parody; they try to belittle. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGentailers, a message from the Matua: your days of gouging, your days of bullying\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226710095aa1204b3793448571c208ccd4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed9b3e9f83794e437d8244336cc39f5\u0022\u003EHon Julie Anne Genter\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re doing nothing about it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fddd51d704b424b8ff66755989d5e6f7\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014your days of corporate thuggery are coming to the end. Wait until the end of the year\u2014no, please don\u2019t listen to all these fairytales of those who have had every opportunity. We are not going to be driven by Green Luddites or ill-informed people about energy security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022 data-id=\u0022a0470f2d7331f16f691ff6af9d468486\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a0470f2d7331f16f691ff6af9d468486\u0022\u003EHon LOUISE UPSTON (Minister for Social Development and Employment) (15:03)\u003C/span\u003E: No New Zealander would want to be facing the challenges that we are facing now as a country; conditions that have nothing to do with any decisions any New Zealander has made. It\u2019s very clear that we can\u2019t control oil prices, we can\u2019t control the conflict in the Middle East, but what we can control and what we can do as a Government is respond in a very considered and deliberate way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m really proud of the work that the Prime Minister Christopher Luxon, the Minister of Finance Nicola Willis, and other senior Ministers are doing to ensure that New Zealand gets through this challenge in a way that doesn\u2019t scar our nation for years and years and years. You imagine if we were coming into this challenge around fuel prices with inflation at 7.3 percent. Think about that for a moment; think about what fuel prices would be doing right now. What is really important is that a Government rises to the challenge of whatever it confronts, but having made sensible decisions to get inflation under control, we are in a much stronger position to confront this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAlso, this is a Government who has absorbed and listened and read through the royal commission report into COVID to ensure that we do not make the same mistakes that the other side made. Because who has been affected the most deeply by high inflation? Those on low income; those on low incomes with fixed incomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why every decision our Government is making is taking into consideration the need to respond and the need to provide targeted, temporary, and timely support, but not getting the firehose out and splashing the cash around so the very households that we\u2019re trying to support right now are damaged for years and years to come. That\u2019s why our Government has provided relief to 143,000 families to ease the pressure of fuel prices\u2014as of today, 143,000 families. Yes, we have targeted those working families with children, because we know the additional costs that they face.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat we do know also is that from 1 April, 1.5 million New Zealanders\u2014whether they are superannuitants, whether they receive the veteran\u2019s pension, whether they are students, whether they are main beneficiaries, or actually whether they are non-beneficiaries who get additional support\u2014also will see a lift today, on 1 April, to support the cost of living challenges. Our Government is responding in a very sensible way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the other stark differences between our Government\u2019s response in this challenge and the previous Government\u2019s to COVID is we\u2019re actually listening to industry. We are listening to the experts. We are working with them, we are getting their intel, we are using that on a daily basis to ensure that we are very lined up in terms of our response, because it is not something the Government can solve on our own. Working with industry is going to be absolutely critical in terms of how we come through the challenges that we face in the weeks and months ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe fuel plan: considered, sensible, designed with industry. That is where I\u2019m incredibly confident about the response that our Government has to what will unfold\u2014and it is unpredictable. But I want New Zealanders to be very reassured that our Government has a plan. We have laid it out and announced that for the public on Friday, but we are very connected to the very people that we need to be\u2014whether it\u2019s overseas, whether it\u2019s diplomatic connections, whether it\u2019s industry here, we are planning for what might come. Also, we have responded: 143,000 households will get support for their fuel bills, and 1.5 million New Zealanders get additional support today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to assure the New Zealand public that the coalition Government is working incredibly hard, staying very close to what is shifting and changing with these unpredictable times, but we will guide New Zealand through these challenging days. I want to finish my contribution with a tribute to my member and friend, the Hon Judith Collins, who has provided a great service to our nation and our country, and to wish her well in her future career.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u0022d34050a13ccf5bfa3581b890cb16d0ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d34050a13ccf5bfa3581b890cb16d0ce\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (15:08)\u003C/span\u003E: For at least the past three decades, the Greens have consistently set out a pathway to better protect our people and our living systems against the inevitable topple of fossil fuel dependency\u2014to a stable planet that we can all be proud of passing on to our mokopuna. In 2001, Rod Donald set out the Green Party\u2019s vision for Aotearoa: \u201CA crucial part of our vision involves New Zealand becoming a world-leader in \u2018fossil-fuel proofing\u2019 our economy. We are already seeing the high cost of car dependence as fuel prices accelerate.\u201D That was 25 years ago. In 2024, the Greens put out He Ara Anamata, our plan to reduce climate emissions five times faster than this pamphlet plan of this current Government, to transform our energy system away from fossil fuel dependency, and improve people\u2019s quality of life at the same time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe best time for Governments to have listened to the Green Party would have been over 30 years ago; the second-best time is right now. I have my colleague H\u016Bhana next to me, who has just returned from the North, where the Hokianga in the North and other parts of the country have been facing, at the front line, the climate change weather impacts that are seriously impacting on people\u2019s life, livelihoods, and their daily stress. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge H\u016Bhana being on the ground with our people in the North, including in my valley in Hokianga, Te Hikut\u016B hap\u016B in Whirinaki, where we have lost houses, we have lost \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Em\u0101ra kai\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Efood gardens\u003C/span\u003E], we have had to face the silt clean-up, the pollution that is to come, where people have lost their livelihoods, where our marae have had to open up to be able to house people and care for them, and where people are living on the edge and with the stress of not knowing what the future\u2014the immediate future and the long-term future\u2014for their life is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe ask the Prime Minister and all of his Ministers to make sure that they are properly funding and resourcing local government to get on the ground urgently. There is no civil defence payment opened up for Hokianga and the North right now. Why? Why is their stress not enough? We urge the Prime Minister to urgently ensure that Crown and Government departments are on the ground, supporting these people so that local governments and regional governments can do the work that they want to do, and to better support these people who have been plunged into these crises and climate disasters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt the same time this Prime Minister is locking us in to further dependency on fossil fuels. How absolutely maddening is that? The very people who are bearing that the most right now, who are paying for the results of a war that they did not decide to have\u2014a war that this Prime Minister refuses to condemn even while it still continues to have a very real impact on our people right now. The Clean Car Discount wound back, the billion-dollar liquefied natural gas terminal, the $200 million for fossil fuel companies, a range of energy funds and efficiency funds that have been pulled back, and $20 billion a year on fossil fuels\u2014$29 million a day. Imagine what we could do\u2014to instead invest that in our people and an Aotearoa that is truly resilient; for a planet where everyone has their needs looked after, where we can live with dignity, where our living systems continue to provide the life that we all depend on: our clean water, our clean oceans, our clean soil, our healthy air. The actual basic human needs that we depend on instead of the climate-destroying and environment-destroying policies that this Government has put through. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI stand today to link all of the things that are happening today that the Greens have always understood were connected: our people living well, our energy systems, looking after our climate, making sure that we are sharing wealth in a way that is just, and in a way that our people deserve. Where is the action and the actual plan for moving us away, for generational thinking, and for ensuring that our mokopuna are not still clinging on to the fossil fuel - dependent systems that this Government is putting into place with even more concrete.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMeanwhile, the Greens continue to put up the solutions and the pathways to ensure that we are resilient and that what is in our control prioritises the wellbeing of our people and our planet. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e74071b7aff337f467d27c7220187691\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e74071b7aff337f467d27c7220187691\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana) (15:13)\u003C/span\u003E: For me, parliamentarians who are parents, and also for those that were brought up in the late 1980s\u2014I think they\u2019re called millennials, which I think I am actually; just\u2014there is a very famous series of children\u2019s books called \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s Wally?\u003C/span\u003E Now, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsTerm\u0022 style=\u0022font-style: italic\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s Wally?\u003C/span\u003E is a book. it\u2019s a brilliant illustration, and there\u2019s a lot of things happening in the picture. The whole point of it is just being able to spot where Wally is. At school, I remember it was one of our favourite pastimes to sit down with a \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWhere\u2019s Wally?\u003C/span\u003E and try and find Wally, and it wasn\u2019t actually that hard because you just had to find his glasses. That was the key. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut it reminded me very much of where\u2019s the Prime Minister? Where is the Prime Minister? When he was asked just a couple of days ago in the media where is his leadership in relation to this Middle East conflict and the fuel plan that supposedly is needed for New Zealand, his response was, \u201CWell, I\u2019m the CEO.\u201D No, no, no\u2014the book\u2019s not \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EI\u2019m the CEO\u003C/span\u003E; the book is \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWhere is the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E He is the leader of our country and has been remarkably missing from this fuel crisis. At a time when we have care and support workers who cannot afford to go to their jobs, who are having to decline jobs because they cannot afford the fuel, where is the Prime Minister? At a time when it\u2019s going to cost, for some families, over $170 to fill their tank, where is the Prime Minister? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is a question for the National Party MPs, because it\u2019s quite clear that given the current polling, there may be other discussions that are happening, and there might be a new Prime Minister. But coming back to the fuel crisis, there are some serious questions that need answering about how prepared that Government is for what we are facing. The entire economy relies on the Government getting this right, from our food packaging to our threads, to any of the compartments that are needed for microchips. It is all interrelated, and it all comes from the feedstock that comes through that strait, that goes to those Asian countries, which are therefore exported to New Zealand. It\u2019s not just about refined fuel\u2014it\u2019s not just about refined fuel.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the Minister Andrew Hoggard, who tried to give assurances today to suppliers, because what I\u2019m hearing from suppliers is they are concerned around food packaging. This isn\u2019t a niche issue; the whole economy depends on fuel. Members know\u2014tradies, farmers, care and support workers, our nurses, our teachers, our students who need to get to school. The interesting thing is the possible closure of this strait wasn\u2019t just happening this year; it was actually initially happening last year, in June 2025. When the Government saw that that was happening\u2014because they get good advice from the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade\u2014what were you doing? Where was the Prime Minister? Why was he not thinking about the plan for if that strait had closed, or what is happening now, which is barely a trickle coming through that strait?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Government published its own criteria for moving between phases. The interesting thing about that is it took them a couple of weeks just to give us more clarity on what the triggers were for phase 1 and 2, and they\u2019re still considering stage 3 and 4. This has been four weeks since that strait has been closed. One of the important things is around the restrictions from source refineries. We should be concerned in this country if the countries that we source our refined fuels from are bringing in restrictions. We should be paying attention. Other countries all across the world are looking at restrictions; they are looking at packages to support their workers to ensure the economy runs. But this Government, because of their poor management of the economy in the last two years, where they borrowed more, they lost the fiscal headroom, we are now in a position where they can only help 7 percent of households; where 93 percent of households\u2014\u201CToo bad for you\u201D, according to this Government. \u201CToo bad.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETomorrow, we will finally hear how this Government, if the Prime Minister turns up, will support care and support workers. That comes down to the advocacy by those care and support workers and the people on this side of the House, who have been asking the right questions. Those Ministers need to ask more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u0022d199fe0f26a76b9e9f3de0d96867bb28\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d199fe0f26a76b9e9f3de0d96867bb28\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (15:18)\u003C/span\u003E: I know it\u2019s April Fool\u2019s today, but I just heard what I thought was a speech from the Labour\u2019s finance spokesperson. I was fooled, actually. But let\u2019s turn to the seriousness in the Middle East. I do want to acknowledge the uncertain times facing this country and New Zealanders right up and down, and to acknowledge the speeches in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are many things outside of our control, and some things that are inside. The war in Iran is something outside of our control. As finance Minister Nicola Willis said, this is not our war. We did not sign up to it, and we want the hostilities to end as quickly as possible so that oil can flow as freely as possible. But we have no say and control over that. What we do have control over is our own response. We heard from the Reserve Bank Governor\u2014she made a speech a few days ago\u2014and her view was very clear on the economic effects from the Middle East: higher inflation and lower growth. We cannot control those impacts, but we can control New Zealand\u2019s response to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to talk about three aspects of our response for this crisis. The first is around fuel security. I heard the member saying, \u201CWhere\u2019s our Prime Minister?\u201D Well, he is on the phone talking to foreign leaders, making sure that we secure the fuel that we need to power up our economy. The good news is that New Zealand is well positioned. We have far better fuel stocks than other comparable countries like, say, our neighbours across the ditch. We\u2019ve established a ministerial oversight group that is getting briefings twice daily\u2014twice daily\u2014from a talented group of people that are monitoring the situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second is cushioning the negative effects from inflation on those that are most vulnerable. Today is a good day for those, because we have got timely, targeted, and temporary support coming to over 143,000 people right up and down New Zealand. That is through the targeted tax changes that will help provide support for families\u2014up to $50 a week for those across the country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe third area is maintaining our strong fiscal position. This is not a time for splashing around the cash. It is about maintaining the fiscal prudence to ensure that any support is timely, targeted, and temporary. That is from the lesson from COVID, as articulated by the New Zealand Treasury.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have debt levels\u2014nominal debt\u2014of nearly $200 billion. The interest on that debt this year alone is nearing $10 billion. If we borrow more, like the other side were wont to do, what\u2019s going to happen is the interest cost for servicing that debt goes even higher. We already had a downgrade by Moody\u2019s, who have put our economy and Government on negative watch as a result, so there is no alternative to our approach. The only alternative that I\u2019m hearing is to tax more, spend more, borrow more, and hope more. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know that the next few months will be extremely tough for this country. There\u2019s no doubt about it. We cannot sugarcoat that we cannot get away from the effects from the Middle East, but this too shall pass and I remain optimistic in this country. Brighter days will return because this Government has a good plan.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the Minister of Finance, Nicola Willis. She\u2019s doing an outstanding job to articulate the Government\u2019s plan. The phases\u2014we\u2019re not in COVID 2.0. You\u2019re not going to be going home to make sourdough. This is a different time and a different crisis, but I do want to acknowledge the leadership of our Government, and they\u2019re doing a tremendous job to provide stability through this time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to finish with a quote from Victor Hugo: \u201CEven the darkest night will end and the sun will rise.\u201D I\u2019m optimistic about this country. We\u2019ve got a good plan. Brighter days will be coming ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022 data-id=\u002212eae96873d583142769235aa02a81f4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212eae96873d583142769235aa02a81f4\u0022\u003EHon DAVID SEYMOUR (Deputy Prime Minister) (15:23)\u003C/span\u003E: If someone is trying to clear things up to explain why everyone has got it wrong and he should be believed, no matter how implausible that might seem, given the evidence available, well, it always pays to check the record against the latest version of events. So it has proved with Chris Hipkins, who wandered across the parking lot last Friday to waiting reporters and told them he had \u201Crefreshed his memory on the COVID-19 vaccine advice timeline\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYes, a paper that he took to Cabinet in late March 2022 contained advice from the COVID-19 Vaccine Technical Advisory Group on the \u201Cunnecessary risk of teenagers getting myocarditis if they received a second dose of the vaccine\u201D. He couldn\u2019t recall it, but, yes, he took that to Cabinet and, yes, that advice was originally in a paper dated 9 December 2021, but, of course, he never saw that. He says it was never put to Ministers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHe also moved, during Friday\u2019s stand-up, to distance himself from ever really getting involved in the issue of medical advice or vaccine safety when he was the COVID-19 Minister. That wasn\u2019t appropriate. He left that stuff to the health experts. His new version of events was, \u201CAll of those 1 p.m. press conferences were fronted by a Minister and a public health official, and I, certainly for the ones that I was fronting, always left the advice on vaccine safety, health advice\u2014I always left that to the relevant health officials at those meetings and I think that was appropriate. I\u2019m not a health practitioner. I think it was appropriate that we left that to the relevant health officials.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo to be clear, Chris Hipkins didn\u2019t get advised about myocarditis risk in young people from vaccinations, even though, on 5 November 2021, the COVID-19 Vaccine Technical Advisory Group provided advice to the Ministry of Health that says that younger groups are \u201Cmore at risk than older age groups of myocarditis after the second dose\u201D and it recommended consideration of one dose for those 18 and under for the education mandate. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen, on 9 December, even more advice was issued. It upgraded advice to say that two doses of the vaccine \u201Cmay add unnecessary risk to increasing the likelihood of myocarditis\u201D. The paper recommended considering one dose for under-18s for all vaccine mandates. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins\u2019 position today, as of last week\u2019s memory refresh, is that in December 2021, he wasn\u2019t getting specific advice from anyone about myocarditis risk from COVID vaccines, and he certainly would never give public health advice about vaccine safety or even health advice. He\u2019s not a health professional; it\u2019s not his job. It wouldn\u2019t be responsible. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHere\u2019s the problem with this story so far: only 12 days after the 9 December advice that he never saw, he was fronting the media next to a public health official, and he was speaking about the death of a young man who recently died of myocarditis following a COVID vaccination. He wasn\u2019t just speaking broadly about it; he seemed to be well briefed on the medical risks of the vaccine. The \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOne News\u003C/span\u003E headline read, \u201CRisk of COVID far outweighs the risk of myocarditis - Hipkins\u201D \u201CChris Hipkins has assured the COVID-19 vaccination is very safe after a Dunedin man\u2019s death from vaccine-related myocarditis.\u201D, the story says. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHe then went on to do precisely what he said last Friday that he never did at a 1 p.m. press conference: \u201CMy overall message to all New Zealanders: the vaccine is very safe, that any small risk associated with the vaccine is by far outweighed by the risk of getting COVID-19 and so vaccination\u2019s absolutely the best course of action.\u201D, he said.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWell, thank you, Dr Hipkins. You managed to get vaccine safety and health advice into the same sound bite. His claim about something so important as the safety of young people and whether they should be legally mandated to have a second dose of the vaccine wasn\u2019t brought to his attention simply defies belief. They were developing advice. They were issuing advice. He was clear he wouldn\u2019t go in front of the media and speak so forcefully about it just 12 days after the paper he never read, or would he?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFundamentally, there are only two possibilities here. Either he really did manage to avoid reading anything through this whole period, and when he spoke to the media doing the thing he now says he never did, he was doing it without having read any of the advice. Or when he did it, the Ministry of Health, who were issuing that advice didn\u2019t think to get on the phone and say, \u201CExcuse me, Minister. Given the advice we\u2019ve sent you lately, you shouldn\u2019t have said that.\u201D I don\u2019t think that that is remotely credible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHere we have yet another contradiction of Chris Hipkins. He did it with Charlotte Bellis. He did it with the two women who were going up north, accused of being prostitutes. This is somebody who wants the trust of New Zealand just to be Prime Minister and here is yet more information as the story unwinds that he does not deserve that trust. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8d910139ea6120fde217821e67dc204\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the next speaker, Mr Seymour, in general debates, generally we don\u2019t read the whole speech. It\u2019s unusual for you, but just a general warning that in general debates, reading speeches is a no-no. We expect there to actually be ideas here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u0022bd9e80d47b7d126aeb88238ccdad0b98\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bd9e80d47b7d126aeb88238ccdad0b98\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier) (15:28)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker, I\u2019d like to present you with my blank page of no notes that I\u2019m about to not read from. It\u2019s a pleasure to take a call in the general debate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222ad0deefd8d5ae065b5748f0b1fa4960\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I love it when people listen to me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f6b5bdedc828d60d16ad1b126081e5f\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014to speak about the fuel crisis that we\u2019re in front of at the moment. It\u2019s very clear to me, from the speeches that we\u2019ve heard from members opposite, that what they see in leadership is seeking the limelight in the theatrette, rather than quiet work in the background to secure fuel supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, if you talk to the people out in the community, as I do in Napier\u2014and I\u2019d just like to remind everyone, as I always do, that Napier goes from Hastings all the way to Gisborne\u2014the people want us to be working hard for them to make sure that next week, the week after, and the week after that, they don\u2019t turn up to the pump or they don\u2019t go to their bowser on the farm and find it empty. In fact, that is the work that our Prime Minister is doing day after day, working with international leaders to make sure we have the supply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, actually, it doesn\u2019t matter to us who stands in front of the community to give them the message. The message is the message. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat I want to talk about is what we are doing. We are doing a number of things to give the community certainty and stability. We heard about the targeted, timely, and temporary response of funding and support to families. We\u2019ve heard about the adjustment to incomes for those on benefits and pensioners. This all makes a difference. Now, yes, this happens every year, but, gosh, isn\u2019t this a good time for it to happen. It all means more money in people\u2019s back pockets\u2014the adjustments necessary to cover the costs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, aren\u2019t we so lucky that, in fact, the work that this Government has done has put us in the best possible position we could be in heading into this crisis\u2014a crisis which, we are reminded, is outside of our control. Something that we can control is our response to it\u2014now, our leader is out there securing fuel so that we aren\u2019t in the worst-case scenario position and so that we don\u2019t have to get to phases 3 and 4.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe rest of our leaders are working very hard to communicate with the public, to talk to industry, and to make sure we are doing the right thing. Yes, you could stand up and make a convoluted announcement on day one without talking to anybody. What\u2019s that going to achieve? Now, actually, these people are at the table, speaking for their people\u2014whether it\u2019s farmers, whether it\u2019s manufacturers, whether it\u2019s transport providers. All of these people need to give certainty and sustainable responses to our community. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, very fortunately for me, tomorrow me and my colleague Mike Butterick and my other colleague Catherine Wedd are going to be at the Hawke\u2019s Bay Primary Sector Awards. What an amazing event this is. It\u2019s actually the highlight of our year, isn\u2019t it, Mike? We get to sit around a table and celebrate the success of our primary sector. Now, our primary sector\u2014these ships are actually leaving our country, leaving our port, and going to the rest of the world; it\u2019s not just the ships that are coming from the Middle East and Asia and coming to New Zealand with all the supplies we need\u2014we are actually an export nation. Isn\u2019t that amazing? These free-trade deals that the Hon Todd McClay is going around the world and securing for us are another part of the leadership that we require to make sure that we can keep fighting the good fight and be a viable and great-representing nation around the world. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, these farms, these growers, these amazing primary production leaders, are continuing to work. What they need from this Government is a sense of certainty and assurance that we are not going to freeze. We are not going to stand there in front of them and say, \u201CWe don\u2019t know what we\u2019re doing; we don\u2019t know what to do.\u201D Well, in fact, we do. We have given certainty every single day of this crisis, and the people appreciate it, and we listen. We listen, and we make changes, and there is nothing wrong with that. I get sick and tired when I hear members of the Opposition stand up and say, \u201COh, they\u2019ve U-turned; oh, they\u2019ve changed their mind.\u201D You know what? Isn\u2019t that amazing leadership. To listen to the people and adjust our response to make sure that we are delivering for Kiwis and what they want.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002215874440b08de616101d254e174fee24\u0022\u003ERyan Hamilton\u003C/span\u003E: Like fisheries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aabf6fb0a43ab099f93be79e487a2f9e\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON\u003C/span\u003E: Like fisheries. That\u2019s a great example, Ryan Hamilton. Didn\u2019t we see a wonderful result in that amazing case of listening to the public, right? This is exactly what we\u2019re here to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOnce again, 1 April comes around, and there\u2019s more money in people\u2019s back pockets to be able to deal with the consequences of global crises that continue to occur. A strong, stable Government that\u2019s out there delivering for New Zealanders, listening to them, communicating, not seeking the limelight in the theatrette and making a big song and dance about it\u2014strong, stable leadership, getting the job done, listening to the people, and giving them a sense of certainty so that when Mike and Catherine and I go to the Primary Sector Awards tomorrow night, we are going to be able to celebrate an industry that\u2019s able to listen to the people, work really hard, and deliver in growing our economy, in continuing to grow our economy, which is what we\u2019ve set out to do and will continue to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe will not freeze. We will not sit back and think we\u2019re going to do nothing and spray the cash around as we\u2019ve heard. We\u2019re going to continue to grow this economy despite international effects, and that is why we are the Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022 data-id=\u00220b020742b6576b56c0814482a9584d9b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220b020742b6576b56c0814482a9584d9b\u0022\u003EHon Dr DEBORAH RUSSELL (Labour) (15:34)\u003C/span\u003E: At a time when this country is facing a crisis, David Seymour spent his time in the general debate raking over events from four years ago\u2014very complicated events\u2014using the death of a 26-year-old to talk about the mandate for 12- to 17-year-olds, whether they should get a second dose of the vaccine, ignoring the fact that if you get COVID, you have a greater risk of myocarditis than there ever was from the vaccine. That was what David Seymour spent his time on, and that shows why the ACT Party is losing in the polls at the moment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet me set some of the record straight on what is going on with the crisis that is affecting our country at the moment. We need to remember that the parallel crisis when we were in Government was COVID, a completely unpredictable virus where no one knew what might happen in the world. In response to that crisis, when we saved 20,000 lives in New Zealand, when we saved businesses, and when we saved jobs, they say we got it wrong. Well, that\u2019s absolutely ridiculous. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHere is the comparison with the current crisis. Although this crisis might be beyond our control, its consequences are highly predictable. We know what will happen if this country and other countries run out of fuel. We know the consequences. That Government, through its own reckless actions, has made those consequences even worse for us. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet me talk about the reckless actions of this Government. When they first came into Government, they cancelled the Clean Car Discount, and what happened as a result of that? The number of electric vehicles (EV) being bought and put into circulation on our roads in this country fell dramatically. That\u2019s a real shame because the more cars we got into the fleet three, four, five, and six years ago, the more electric second-hand vehicles there would be available now. That was the first mistake. The next mistake they made\u2014and they did this in March 2024\u2014was they removed the exemption for light electric vehicles and for plug-in hybrid electric vehicles. They have removed the exemption for road user charges. They made it more expensive to own an EV. They made it harder to own an EV. They further discouraged the take-up of electric vehicles. Then, in November 2025, in another absolutely reckless action, they decreased the clean car importer standard. What does that mean? They have incentivised car importers to bring in many more internal combustion cars than electric vehicles.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the last week or two, there has been an absolute run on electric vehicles. Dealers are sold out because, in this current crisis, people are seeing that the way to get around this country, that the way to preserve their access to all the things that are good in New Zealand, is through electric vehicles. But, step by step by step, that Government has removed all the advantages of electric vehicles. Step by step by step, they have taken away the incentives to own an electric vehicle. That is so short sighted. It\u2019s short sighted in terms of the climate, and it is very, very short sighted in terms of New Zealand\u2019s energy independence. The reason we are in trouble now is because we are dependent on overseas sources for the great majority of our energy, and they have actively worked against that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EShane Jones\u2014I think he\u2019s the only one who calls himself Matua\u2014said, in his speech, if there\u2019s one thing that the Iran war shows us, it is that we must use our own resources. How right he is. We must use our own resources of wind. We must use our own resources of solar. We must use our own resources of hydro. We must use our own resources of geothermal. We must electrify our transport, and we have the resources to do it right here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002247a88a22498e4a208a43347635748943\u0022 data-id=\u00224dbb111802f69e7c806726851d6ed258\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002247a88a22498e4a208a43347635748943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224dbb111802f69e7c806726851d6ed258\u0022\u003ET\u0100KUTA FERRIS (Te Tai Tonga) (15:39)\u003C/span\u003E: Our oceans and the resources that are bound in our moana are a precious resource to all of the people in Aotearoa, and the people of Te Tai Tonga have some serious reflections to consider. What the people need at this point in time with regard to the reforms and what they expect out of a Minister, is to put the people\u2019s interests first. To have the people\u2019s needs foremost: sustainability, kaitiakitanga, and the longevity of the kaimoana, the moana, and its resources at the heart of regulations, as we consider how to preserve those things going into the future. To ensure that our tamariki and mokopuna have got kaimoana in the moana going into the future\u2014that\u2019s not something that we can just hope will materialise; we have to be intentional.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat we don\u2019t need is a Minister who puts the interests of the commercial crowd in the front\u2014short-term gain and short-term profit over long-term sustainability and leaving something for the future. Unfortunately, the reforms that are before Parliament failed to address the root cause of our declining fisheries: namely overfishing, over-allocation, destructive fishing practices that have persisted for far too long. In the meantime, instead, he\u2019s chosen to privilege these practices and risk worsening the problem; leaving a mess for our tamariki and our mokopuna to pick up and clean as we move forward. We can\u2019t afford to put short-term financial gain ahead of the long-term sustainability of our moana. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor decades now, our fish stocks have been in decline\u2014serious decline. The evidence is undeniable. If we think about our deep-sea species like hoki and orange roughy, they have almost been pushed to the brink of extinction. Our local fish in the South Island\u2014the blue cod fishery\u2014are in peril, right now, as we speak. We think about things closer to everyone around the country; our scallops, our p\u0101ua, our crayfish have all been in decline for years, and we have failed to take the steps to look after their longevity and ensure that they are there for the future. As we continue down this road, many of these species are being completely closed off. Scallops: off the menu; crayfish: off the menu. This is the reality for many places in the country, and it\u2019s time for us to wake up. We must take steps that look after our fish stocks and leave something better for the future. Not just dwindling stocks; thriving stocks\u2014this is what our children and our grandchildren deserve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYet here we are, giving more fish to commercial interests, making it easier for them to catch more with less oversight, blocking camera footage on boats, legalising the dumping of fish. All of these things only serve to undermine the fish stocks that we currently have. Allowing quota to be carried over for successive years; thinking that somehow a stock is going to miraculously recover itself\u2014I tell you, it is a recipe for disaster, not to mention the proposal of removing minimum size limits, catch limits for commercial fishing. I tell you,  we really need to get back to the drawing board.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAll the while, the Minister has managed to ignore the M\u0101ori customary rights and ignore the recreational interests. Those are the people\u2019s interests. Whilst the Minister might also talk and speak about the prevalence of the use of scientific data and the management of the stock, it\u2019s been that same scientific management that has got us into the predicament we\u2019re in right now. I doubt that it will be that same scientific management that will get us out. In fact, it could be time for some tangata whenua management. There are plenty of examples all around the country\u2014all around the country. Rather than prioritising short-term commercial and financial gain, we need to make sure that there\u2019s true transparency across the industry, that our children\u2019s legacy, that our grandchildren\u2019s legacy is looked after. It\u2019s our tamariki and mokopuna who stand to lose the most under the current reforms.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETe Tai Tonga has a simple message for the Minister: leave some fish for the mokos, Shane\u2014leave some fish for the mokos. That\u2019s the message from Te Tai Tonga: be a good kaitiaki\u2014be a good kaitiaki. M\u0101ori have always stood in our power as kaitiaki, and we will always look after the resource. We have to do better. We have to ensure that our people have access and that the resources are left in better condition than the one that we inherited. Kia ora t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u0022506a2a2e8f0b514f86a2819bc9de4ee0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022506a2a2e8f0b514f86a2819bc9de4ee0\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East) (15:44)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s great to stand and speak in this general debate today. With the fuel crisis going on at the moment, it\u2019s started to, I guess, trigger a few of us into those hauntings of COVID, when you\u2019d wake up and feel controlled, you\u2019d feel misled by the Government of the day. We\u2019d hear about the \u201Cpodium of truth\u201D, and now we see so much deception. We heard from David Seymour talking earlier about the papers that Mr Hipkins read or didn\u2019t read or remembered or couldn\u2019t remember until his refresh. The Opposition might say, \u201CWell, why is that important?\u201D It\u2019s important because it\u2019s about trust. The Government is responsible for leading and communicating to people in times of crisis. A lot of that trust has been damaged\u2014a lot of that trust has been damaged. So while we remember the \u201Cpodium of truth\u201D, like my good colleague Tama Potaka, we\u2019re more interested in the crucible of outcomes\u2014the crucible of outcomes. We\u2019re interested in reality; we\u2019re interested in pragmatic solutions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo whilst there was so much wasteful spending\u2014we saw the COVID royal commission of inquiry, and we saw $60 billion wasted, half of that not even associated with the direct response to COVID; shovel-ready projects that were nowhere near a shovel; lump-sum payments to dead people; a large-scale asset programme which left us with $10 billion in debt\u2014a bit of a debacle. In the last two years, this Government\u2019s been working very hard on restoring fiscal discipline, and you\u2019ve started seeing signs of growth returning to the economy. We\u2019ve seen GDP return. We\u2019ve cut billions of dollars off the last couple of Budgets in reprioritisations and savings. Thank goodness we have, because imagine not having any buffer at all. Imagine that continued wasteful spending, that debt\u2014we would be turning into a Third World country. I\u2019m so pleased that we\u2019ve got a Government that\u2019s focused on doing the basics right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, our Prime Minister\u2019s leading the charge in a very proactive way with this fuel crisis. Most people would have seen the four-phase fuel plan\u2014very pragmatic; very straightforward. And, of course, the Prime Minister assures us this will be nothing like COVID, where people woke up every day in fear, wondering what the Government would say to us next; whether they\u2019d extend the lockdowns they were overprescribed and shut down Auckland; whether they\u2019d double-jab teenagers that didn\u2019t need it. The four-phase plan that we\u2019ve seen, that\u2019s now in the public domain, is simple yet pragmatic, and it\u2019s so good, even the Australians are starting to copy it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing, which is really important to note, is our Prime Minister on the proactive phase is reaching out to countries like Singapore, like Korea, like Australia, and working out how we diversify our reliance on fuel. We know that the Gulf supplies 20 percent, but there\u2019s 80 percent of other alternatives, and we\u2019re keeping all options open. The Prime Minister is proactively looking. There\u2019s good communication with our community\u2014it just shows the importance of resilience and diversification. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll give you a good example of resilience and diversification: when our Prime Minister came to office, he said straight away, \u201CLet\u2019s do a trade deal with India.\u201D The largest populace on Earth, the largest-growing middle-income economy in the world\u2014over a billion people. He employed, he empowered, and he disembarked the wonderful Minister Todd McClay, who, within 18 months, essentially turned around an incredible trade deal with India. We\u2019re just waiting for when Labour\u2019s to sign it. We\u2019re just wondering when Labour\u2019s going to say, \u201CYep, we support New Zealand, we support diversification, we support resilience.\u201D But do you know why they\u2019re not signing it? Do you know why they\u2019re politicking in the midst of a campaign year? Because they\u2019re jealous. Because they didn\u2019t do it. They had six years. Did they even go to India? Did they establish any relationships? No, nothing at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got a first-class agreement ready to sign with one of the most populous countries on Earth, and Labour won\u2019t do it because they\u2019re jealous because their foreign Minister hardly hopped on a plane. She hardly picked up a phone. She was so worried about co-governance and three waters that the relationships across the globe were stranded. Our Prime Minister and our Minister for Trade, Todd McClay, have had to rebuild those relationships. And it\u2019s good news. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the midst of challenging times in New Zealand, I\u2019m pleased to report that the adults are in the room, and this Government will steer New Zealand through these rocky waters. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022 data-id=\u00228c89ed2136c08b2a869dbb35cac82b8e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228c89ed2136c08b2a869dbb35cac82b8e\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour) (15:49)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re at the 11th call for this general debate, and I find it absolutely outrageous that the Government backbenchers, with their speaking lines over there, haven\u2019t even bothered to talk about the people that are actually doing it tough in our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to speak to the people who feel like they have been an afterthought in this House and that\u2019s our rural communities. Right now, they\u2019re doing it tough and this Government is nowhere to be seen. Fuel prices are soaring. In rural New Zealand, it\u2019s not an inconvenience; that is a lifeline being cut to our people in the rural areas. You can\u2019t shop around when you live an hour from town, you can\u2019t take public transport when there isn\u2019t any, and you can\u2019t just absorb rising costs where every litre of fuel underpins your livelihood, whether that\u2019s farming, forestry, tourism, or simply trying to get your kids to school. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis crisis was always going to hit rural communities the hardest. Kieran McAnulty knows that in the Wairarapa. Tangi Utikere, he knows that out in Ashhurst. However, the Government has no plan. Reassurance is not a plan, talking points are not a plan, and rural New Zealand knows it. While fuel prices spike, this Government is still pretending that everything is under control, when families, farmers, and small businesses know that it\u2019s not. Let\u2019s be clear: this crisis didn\u2019t arrive in a vacuum. People were already struggling before fuel prices surged. The cost of food, power, and healthcare are all rising, and wages are not keeping up\u2014and that pressure is building. The Government made choices that made things worse, and our rural communities are paying that price. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EToday, I met with two remarkable members of the communities, Sandra Kirby and Anna-Grace Somerfield from Rural Women New Zealand. I want to acknowledge the extraordinary work that they are doing across our rural communities. It\u2019s organisations like Rural Women New Zealand who are stepping up. They are advocating for something as basic and as critical as school bus access, because for many in rural areas, getting their children to school is not guaranteed; it\u2019s a daily logistical challenge, and families are carrying that burden alone. They are delivering programmes like the Activator programme. This programme is about improving rural pathways for rural women to develop their business start-up ideas and build capability and confidence so they can take those ideas to the next level. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThey are running the ConnectHER programme, a vital initiative to tackle isolation, support wellbeing, and build networks for rural women who might otherwise be completely cut off. Here\u2019s the key point: the need for these services is not decreasing. It\u2019s increasing, demand is growing, and pressure is rising, and these programmes are now up for funding renewal. The question for this Government is simple: will you listen? Will you back the organisations that are doing this important work? Because if the ConnectHER programme loses funding, it is rural women already under strain who will pay the price.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEarlier this week, I also met with Aviva, in North Canterbury, who do fantastic work right across Waimakariri and North Canterbury. They delivered a message that should concern every member of this House: when financial stress increases, so does family violence. That\u2019s not theory; that is a reality. When households are under pressure, when bills stack up, when fuel costs surge and income doesn\u2019t, that stress compounds, and, in too many cases, that stress turns into harm. It\u2019s not just an economic issue we are facing; it\u2019s a social issue and it is a community safety issue. It creates a clear responsibility for the Government to ensure that support services are funded, accessible, and ready to respond\u2014especially in rural areas, where services are already stretched thin. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen the Government fails to manage that cost of living, and when it fails to respond to crises like the fuel shock, it doesn\u2019t just show up in bank accounts; it actually shows up in people\u2019s homes. Rural New Zealand is resilient; it always has been. But resilient is not an excuse for neglect, and right now, rural communities are being asked to carry too much with too little support. They\u2019re paying more for fuel, they\u2019re paying more for food, and they\u2019re paying more for the basics. Instead of trying to help these rural communities, this Government is making it worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d53552e85bd45efbdaf430e413993d8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the first time in three years the member has done a general debate speech; I know in future, he\u2019ll have a lot less reliance on the script in front of him.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220304d68a6fd82800dafc6595da271430\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s why we didn\u2019t heckle.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d875184a6f532d31e538cc359e2f051d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d875184a6f532d31e538cc359e2f051d\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill) (15:54)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. First of all, congratulations to the Lynfield College robotics team for winning\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228cbb2460730624eff6d6802e1cc6fb41\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, am I hearing a comment from my right, criticising my ruling?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224ec40087a3288c8a8f960ae37ca82c5d\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: No, not at all.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221acb51ea0a5a015a234318abaf467c13\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, good. I\u2019m pleased about that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221375812d83f5e3a64e8d4b8769655bdd\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG\u003C/span\u003E: Can I start my time again?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207b0574fc00e0d3cb6a8a5c93400e172\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019ll restart the time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f99030775ded5419d617fde842c74047\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, congratulations to the Lynfield College robotics team for winning the national robotics competition for the third time in a row. Well done to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EToday, my contribution is focused on three things: support, opportunity, and the people. Hard-working families in Mt Roskill are having a tough time. The rising cost of living combined with increasing petrol prices is putting real pressure on household budgets. We understand that, and we are here to support them. From today, around 143,000 low to middle income working families will receive an extra $50 per week to help with the cost of living. This is targeted, practical support, delivered where it\u2019s needed most. Superannuation is also increasing. A married couple will now receive $1,708 a fortnight\u2014an increase of more than $180 since the 2023 election. This is about ensuring our seniors can live with dignity and security.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t stop here. Family tax credits, benefits, and student allowances are all rising from today. Now, we are honest about this: we know this support may seem modest; we know it does not solve everything overnight, but we know that every single dollar counts. For families in Mt Roskill, that extra support means a bit more breathing room and a little less stress at the checkout, at the petrol station, or at the kitchen table. This is what it\u2019s about: backing our people through the tough times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESecond, I think this is why the National Government is focusing on building our economy, making it easier to attract investment, support businesses, and create opportunities here at home. The Investment Boost: our recent survey has shown that 40 percent of businesses have reported increased spending on capital assets over the last 12 months, due to the policy. Guess what! When business grows, jobs are created; when jobs are created, incomes rise; and when incomes rise, families in Mt Roskill are better able to get ahead.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA key part of this is strengthening our international connections. A high-quality free-trade agreement with India has the potential to significantly boost our exports, opening up new markets for New Zealand businesses, from agriculture to technology and services. For a diverse community like Mt Roskill with a strong connection to India, this creates real opportunity, more trade, more business activities, and more local jobs. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are here to unlock the potential of Eden Park as well: Robbie Williams; Tottenham Hotspur coming for a football game; State of Origin. This is not just entertainment; they are job creators. They generate employment across hospitality, event management, transport, retail, and security. Importantly, they provide flexible and entry-level opportunities, especially for our young people in Mt Roskill who are looking to get experience and enter the workforce. For many, this is the first step, a first job, a first pay cheque, and a pathway into long-term employment. When we talk about economic growth, we are talking about real outcomes for real people, more jobs, higher incomes, and better opportunities for families in Mt Roskill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, I want to talk about the people in Mt Roskill. Mt Roskill is one of the most diverse communities in New Zealand. It is home to migrants and ethnic communities who bring skill, education, and incredible work ethics. Many arrive with a strong qualification and professional experience. They work hard, contribute to our economy, and support a family, but too often, they work harder and receive less in return. Their qualifications are not always fully recognised, opportunities do not always match their abilities, and their contribution can sometimes be overlooked. This is something we must address. Also, we must make something very clear: ethnic communities must never be used as a political football. Politicians have a responsibility to speak carefully and respectfully to address the issues without targeting and singling out any groups, because when we divide communities, we weaken them. One thing I know is that diversity is our strength, and when we are united, we are stronger\u2014stronger as a community, stronger as an economy, and stronger as a country. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fc981f6854c7b3dde56e41194e3ec9b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just for consistency, I did note that the member didn\u2019t stray far off his written notes there. I just repeat that this is general debate. It\u2019s a time that we should\u2014it\u2019s a very broad range of issues; we should be able to debate them and bring those ideas here without necessarily sticking to a script. So just for consistency, for all those I\u2019ve advised during this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022920730387beb5b83c1228d4a1c01bd72\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I declare the House in committee for consideration of the Carter Trust Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002211bbb6d8d46f4c0185d9ec87a49bbd93\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ef9d673c0e22d75c5ccb43f70a081505\u0022\u003ECarter Trust Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002278d9bf37a29e7700ac451f1a362f567f\u0022\u003ECommittee of the Whole House\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsClauseHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dd6de1f7e0ffff2a5a285cd1c8a5f000\u0022\u003EPreamble and clauses\u00A01 to 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022689675c9e6054a9d89b0f8cc858521c6\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, the House is in committee on the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. We come first to the preamble. This is the debate on the preamble. The question is that the preamble stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a49f67593e9b64a5ea36f1503f1afa1e\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. I seek leave for this debate be taken as one question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226aee5096c6d27d7c4e7bef8628f8b9bf\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There is none. The question is that the preamble and clauses 1 to 9 stand part.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022c10af49dd4e14f54b6cf56aaa9e8c1a2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c10af49dd4e14f54b6cf56aaa9e8c1a2\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:01)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I\u2019ve got a few questions I want to ask the member in charge of this bill. It\u2019s a local bill, a private bill in the name of Mike Butterick, who is the MP for Wairarapa, and the Carter Trust is an important part of his Wairarapa community. I think it is important for us to sort of go through the legislation and to get a bit of a greater understanding around the Carter Trust and the intention behind this bill and why Mr Butterick has brought it to Parliament, and the select committee process it went through as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe first question I want to ask is related to the purpose and the background of the legislation, and I would be keen to hear from the member in charge if he could just explain to us why this private bill, in the first case, is actually necessary. What\u2019s the problem that the bill is intending to seek and to solve for the Carter Society and the Carter Trust?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022bc06ab66a0d61de44d3d59d3619f0778\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bc06ab66a0d61de44d3d59d3619f0778\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. Thanks very much to the member for that question, and a very good question that is indeed, and I\u2019m sure there will be plenty of other questions. The bill is necessary because the Carter Trust Act is a 1961 Act and it\u2019s actually just simply now outdated, and it\u2019s actively impeding the efficient operation of the Carter Court care home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPrivate bills generally affect an individual, group, or organisation with a specific interest, and follow a very prescribed process to get to this point. It would be remiss of me at this stage to not acknowledge the Social Services and Community Committee; the chair of the Carter Society, Sharon Parker, who\u2019s been involved all through this; the Public Trust, for 129 years as trustee of the bequest from Charles Rooking Carter; David McLay, for his legal guidance and expertise in navigating the process that this bill is currently going through in this House, and the complexities involved there; and then, last but not least, Charles Rooking Carter for his bequest.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is necessary to ensure that necessary changes actually do occur. When you look at the big picture, what began in 1901, as a home for six to 10 \u201Caged poor men\u201D or \u201Cinmates\u201D as they referred to at the time, has now grown into a modern, 100-plus bed facility serving the wider Wairarapa\u2014which, thankfully, now also includes women, as well. The 1961 Act imposes redundant ministerial approvals, leasing restrictions, and administration hurdles that no longer actually make any sense. This bill winds up the redundant trust, distributes the assets sensibly, clarifies the Public Trust\u2019s liability, and gives the society the flexibility it needs while still honouring the legacy of Charles Rooking Carter. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022 data-id=\u00226643ba6fda5afe6a5215d910059852ee\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226643ba6fda5afe6a5215d910059852ee\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) (16:04)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. I would like to, before I ask my short question to my colleague Mr Butterick, also acknowledge that this is putting into action the legacy of Charles Rooking Carter, who is an interesting character in that he was a wealthy landowner by the end of his life, but he also advocated for better working conditions and so forth. As a fellow import from England, I feel a great kinship, and I live in Carterton, named after Charles Rooking Carter. My question to the member who\u2019s leading this bill is not about the substance of the bill, I\u2019m comfortable with that. It\u2019s been through an adequate select committee process, and I think we can all be comfortable with it. I would just like to know what steps the member has taken to convey progress through the different stages of this bill to the Carter Society and its members. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022e4cbb4de3fb38775331a5fb8f47f50e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e4cbb4de3fb38775331a5fb8f47f50e6\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:05)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much for that question; a very good question. We\u2019ve been in direct and continual contact with David McLay, the person providing the legal advice; Sharon Parker; and the Public Trust, as well. All the way through, everyone\u2019s been on the same page and having very good conversations and keeping each other up to date in terms of the progress. Thank you very much for the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022343700df2e1f61203f6b879905b51158\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022343700df2e1f61203f6b879905b51158\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (16:06)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I wanted to make a short contribution. We, the Labour Party, have no concerns whatsoever about this bill. We are fully in support of it. It has been a long time coming. I remember first having conversations with the Carter Society about this bill probably about five years ago. They\u2019ve put a lot of effort into this, it is long overdue, and it is required. But of course, the risk in this place is that when you are fully supportive and content with the way that a bill was drafted and it\u2019s progressing through the House, if you don\u2019t say anything, it could be misinterpreted as a lack of interest, and that is certainly not the case. I wanted to put on record, yet again, the support of the Labour Party for this bill, and acknowledge the amount of work that has gone into it\u2014and that includes the member who sponsored the bill, Mike Butterick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EIt is important for local and private bills, wherever possible, to not be political. Too often in this House\u2014as, actually, frankly, we\u2019ve just witnessed in the general debate\u2014we can\u2019t help ourselves. In this instance, this is a bill that has been rigorously assessed, that has been debated in the House, has gone through a full process, has the full support of the local community, and it warrants passing. It doesn\u2019t warrant being delayed, but it warrants due recognition of the effort that\u2019s gone into it and the benefit that will be brought to the community. We commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022c24c93d145fb9e814e9565a9799311e6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c24c93d145fb9e814e9565a9799311e6\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:07)\u003C/span\u003E: I would just like to acknowledge the contributions from Kieran McAnulty and Celia Wade-Brown as fellow MPs that live in the Wairarapa. It is important and it is great that sometimes we can show that we do agree on issues. Thank you very much for your support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u002253f6e87f751af464fdf3da6d069343ad\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253f6e87f751af464fdf3da6d069343ad\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:08)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I actually do have a couple of specific questions relating to it, and I appreciate that there is general consensus and support across the House on the legislation, but it\u2019s still important to scrutinise it as it goes through the committee of the whole House stage. That is our part in this Parliament, to ensure that we scrutinise the legislation even if it has universal support\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022cf4f628cbaf8b0606dce0b61ee77920b\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It is, Mr Rutherford. But I will make the point in the case of a private bill that it has been through a select committee, so I\u2019m not going to look favourably on any prolonged debate on this in the Chamber this afternoon, out of respect for the people that bring it, so I am expecting genuine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a0dab06e181493df71949f7cbf8d6813\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yep. Yeah. And unlike the other side, I don\u2019t intend to take full five-minute calls to ask my questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c21f40cf2e87b35d9789a16f3b91c20\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: In that case, you only need to ask your questions in one call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f565c435a3395dd8a4f63ea67c95fb0f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, happy to Madam Chair, if you\u2019d like me to. The first I want to talk about is in the Social Services and Community Committee\u2019s report, they talk about the upkeep of Mr Carter\u2019s grave. I actually think that\u2019s a really important point for us as a House to just scrutinise, because the select committee have actually written quite a substantial part of their report on the upkeep. They\u2019ve said things like \u201CSection 7(a) of the Act includes a requirement for net income from the Trust to be used for \u2018paying the costs of keeping in proper order the grave of the testator\u2019 \u201D, which is Mr Carter himself. Why has the upkeep of Mr Carter\u2019s grave not been included in the legislation, and can the member confirm that the grave ultimately will still be maintained? I\u2019ll come to my next questions after that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022dd3c62804302eeb4938255a264af2620\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022dd3c62804302eeb4938255a264af2620\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:09)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. Yes, I can confirm that the grave will still be maintained. It\u2019s a very good question, and I actually managed to sit in at the Social Services and Community Committee when they were asking about that\u2014and quite right that they should be asking that. The Carter Society has already given a formal undertaking to continue maintaining the grave. The select committee was satisfied with that assurance. The obligation was actually never in the 1896 will; it was added in the 1961 Act. The society will continue this very respectful practice as a condition of the scheme.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022579c3626593fa6a1091d7933c80e933d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022579c3626593fa6a1091d7933c80e933d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair. I also just want to talk about the staggered commencement, which are clauses 7 and 8, because that too is actually quite an unusual thing for us to see in legislation in that sense. In the bill, it says that clauses 7 and 8\u2014and now 7A\u2014come into force six months after Royal assent, rather than immediately. I\u2019m keen to understand from the member in charge, why have the inclusion of a staggered commencement, rather than just having it straight after the private bill is passed?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022f07d011bbe39f9f597fdd78583d50db2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f07d011bbe39f9f597fdd78583d50db2\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:11)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. Well, as anyone that\u2019s ever run a business and has to file their accounts with the accountant and spends an inordinate amount of time waiting for the final accounts to be done knows, it is simply about that: giving the trust the necessary time to complete those final accounts and to make the distributions and wind up the trust in an orderly manner. The rest of the bill, including the immediate repeal of the outdated ministerial powers, can commence straight away, giving the society that immediate flexibility, while the financial housekeeping is, effectively, being completed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u00226befa4aa80483f5921a9922f008c53db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226befa4aa80483f5921a9922f008c53db\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:11)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Chair\u2014I appreciate your patience with this. I am trying to move through a variety of different questions on the legislation. One I do really want to focus on, as we come to the end\u2014as we come to the end. I see Ingrid Leary up there\u2014I\u2019m sure she\u2019s got plenty to contribute from diary on the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. But my question\u2019s actually on the impact on the residents who are in the care home that is provided by the Carter Trust. Now, the member in charge, Mike Butterick, said in his opening contribution that initially it was just for boys, and it was widened and the scope now includes men and women, but how\u2019s the bill actually going to affect the residents of the Carter Court care home? For example, are those residents going to face higher fees? Will they see any material impact for them as day-to-day residents of the Carter Court care home\u2014or, for example, will they see potentially reduced services that could impact them as well?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022644e64d225620f6ebb29d9369a3570f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022644e64d225620f6ebb29d9369a3570f0\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:12)\u003C/span\u003E: I would thank that member. It\u2019s actually a very important question and one that does deserve some clarity as well. Residents will see no negative impact. Fees for contracted long-time residential care are actually already set nationally under the Residential Care and Disability Support Services Act 2018. Removing the outdated ministerial power in section 12 does not change what the residents may pay. Society will continue to provide high-quality care. The winding up actually gives it greater flexibility to focus the resources on the residents. Thank you for the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2d97653568424a49abfdebfc5aa3b80\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2d97653568424a49abfdebfc5aa3b80\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri) (16:13)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair\u2014it\u2019s really great to hear the amount of due diligence that\u2019s been done by the member on his bill. He may be aware of some of the advocacy I\u2019ve been doing around retirement villages and capital payments. I can see that there is independent living under the auspices of the Carter Trust. With that in mind, I\u2019m interested to know what the member has done to understand the impact of any potential legal changes to the retirement villages legislation certainly being flagged by his party and his Government to capital repayments\u2014whether he is supportive of those repayments being within a mandated time period of a year and whether they should apply retrospectively or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EI get that this is about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221f221ed5ce69454c032c1ea110d83e9c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a very narrow bill and it\u2019s out of scope. I will give the member in the chair an opportunity to answer that question, but we\u2019re going very broad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221645e36e660d9ce415797af58778d3cc\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY\u003C/span\u003E: That would be great, Madam Chair. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u00226d245af7dc239e22b15f5ba8c18c1240\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d245af7dc239e22b15f5ba8c18c1240\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:14)\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, I thank the member for that question. Look, it\u2019s not in this specific bit of legislation, so it\u2019s not something that I\u2019ve considered per se. That\u2019s speculative in terms of what changes there may be, but this bill doesn\u2019t speak to those as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u002222d7a65fb5a91fbd115748a329518f7a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222d7a65fb5a91fbd115748a329518f7a\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri) (16:14)\u003C/span\u003E: Just my final question\u2014thank you for the indulgence. Noting that by all accounts, Mr Carter was a really honourable and upstanding citizen\u2014and there\u2019s been acknowledgment of that in the committee today and in the other readings that we have\u2014I do note that in one of the clauses of the bill, clause 2(2), it talks about trust lands. The member will be aware that at the period of time when the will first came into being was a period of unsettled time in New Zealand where there were confiscations of M\u0101ori land and there were other things happening around indigenous land. I am not at all suggesting that was the case with this particular will, but I am curious to know whether the member has researched that and has satisfied himself that he\u2019s really comfortable with what happened at that period.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EOf course, there\u2019s no going back in history, but I\u2019m curious to understand the depth of research that the member might have done around that to allay any concerns. I know that when we were speaking about this previously in the House, there may have been some sensitivities for some of those who were in the Parliament listening to a farewell speech from one of our M\u0101ori colleagues. I\u2019m just curious to understand what the member has done to make himself very comfortable with the history of this, or reconciling the history of it, as the case may be.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u00227a41c86cd55aafe332250af8aaf6f5d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227a41c86cd55aafe332250af8aaf6f5d4\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. Certainly nothing that I\u2019m aware of, nor fellow Wairarapa MPs. It\u2019s never been raised. I still come back to the very generous legacy of Charles Rooking Carter that he has left for his Carterton community that continues to provide for our elderly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u002281c01c5bd5c741e1200c6a62a740581c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002281c01c5bd5c741e1200c6a62a740581c\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East) (16:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Just a quick question, and also congratulations to the member\u2014great to see you in that spot. Why has the bill chosen to distribute $50,000 specifically to the Anglican parish of Carterton and the balance to the Carter Society? I was just wondering, is that fair and consistent with the original will, in your opinion?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u0022c919a521253d2ad63400eae7e269c5b5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c919a521253d2ad63400eae7e269c5b5\u0022\u003EMIKE BUTTERICK (National\u2014Wairarapa) (16:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you for that question. It certainly is a very different position sitting up here in the House. Yes, so why has it chosen to distribute $50,000? Thank you very much\u2014it\u2019s a very good question. Is it consistent with the original will? Yes, it is. It\u2019s fair and consistent. The original will provided an annuity to the Anglican vicar of Carterton. The $50,000 is an agreed lump-sum equivalent that both the parish and the society have accepted in full satisfaction of that obligation. The balance then goes to the Carter Society, which has been delivering actually care for decades. Public Trust, as executor, has confirmed that this is the most practical and equitable outcome.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u00225bf3b2f8f1c8f19ad6be1ced4ffb9ead\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225bf3b2f8f1c8f19ad6be1ced4ffb9ead\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:17)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, That debate on this question now close.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228170fb3b33fd01b64603289686b476ab\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Just don\u2019t take a call might be another way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227267ce64334e3d4d12b4c60fa216494c\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Would you like to withdraw that motion and I\u2019ll take the vote? Or do you want that motion to stand?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701d9fb5f0d1f05fa43f187f57da0522\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the motion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPreamble and clauses 1 to 9 agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill to be reported without amendment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHouse resumed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002260eb2914b38105b05128a67f7826d407\u0022\u003ECHAIRPERSON (Barbara Kuriger)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, the committee has considered the Carter Trust Amendment Bill and reports it without amendment. I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the report be adopted\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EReport adopted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022ee455f6643fd0e9244d6b8b55254a041\u0022\u003ESale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002236b64e4a23b468f978d724c5da58f716\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002275f386bb2c20ead173ac75a32615884f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: We\u2019re at the beginning of the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill, third reading. Members, this bill has been the subject of personal votes for previous readings. I\u2019m aware that there will be many members who support and oppose this bill who will want to speak to the third reading. I propose that the member in charge of the bill, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, have the first 10-minute call in the debate. I propose that the remaining 11 calls be split into 22 five-minute speeches to give as many members the chance to speak as possible. Members who want a call should come to the Speaker\u2019s Chair to indicate this, and also indicate whether they are for or against the bill. I will then endeavour to allocate the calls evenly amongst supporters and opponents of the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u00220e002d1a615fe59b86174aec72666d66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220e002d1a615fe59b86174aec72666d66\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (16:20)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill be now read a third time\u003C/span\u003E. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s quite a special moment that this bill has got to this stage when you consider that all recent attempts to adjust the liquor licensing at Easter have not got to select committee. I think that a big part of why it\u2019s got to this point is the way this House has conducted the debate but also the way in which members have worked together in the Justice Committee and outside the debating chamber. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe intention of this bill is extremely simple: it proposes to change the rules that currently exist for on-licences on Good Friday, Easter Sunday, Anzac Day morning, and Christmas Day. As it currently stands, on-licensed premises\u2014bars, clubs, and restaurants\u2014don\u2019t operate on these days under the same rules that they do on every other day, and the question has to be asked: why is that? If it were a case that they couldn\u2019t open at all, then that, it could be argued, is consistent with the rules that are in place for the likes of retail and most other services, but it\u2019s not. These businesses are allowed to open on these days, but they have to follow different rules, and those rules, I would argue, don\u2019t make sense. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhy is it that on these days, if someone goes and wishes to buy a pint, they have to buy what\u2019s deemed to be a substantial meal. Why is it that a substantial meal isn\u2019t actually defined? If someone is ordering a bowl of wedges, it isn\u2019t clear whether that is a substantial meal, but if they made that loaded wedges and added cheese and sour cream and bacon, is that a substantial meal? Is a pizza a substantial meal? It is ridiculous that this is where we are at, and those owners and operators and workers in hospitality have to guess what is a substantial meal before they can serve someone a pint of beer. What is even more ridiculous is that, actually, they\u2019re not required to eat the meal; they\u2019re only required to purchase it. It can sit there while they drink, and it could also be argued that they then can go and buy another substantial meal in order to keep drinking. That doesn\u2019t make sense. This bill clears that up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s important to note that the bill as originally drafted actually went wider than that. My intention was only ever to focus on those businesses that are already allowed to open, because I have seen the debate in this House up to this point. It is clear that there isn\u2019t a majority in this Parliament to change the trading laws at Easter, and that is exactly why I have not proposed that; in fact, I have voted against that, myself. But when all we\u2019re talking about here is businesses that can already open, this is not expanding access to alcohol. When we\u2019re only talking about those workers that are working anyway, this is not taking anything away from those workers that would otherwise enjoy a guaranteed day off. All this bill does is concentrate on the rules for those businesses that are already operating. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe problem with including all businesses that are allowed to operate is that that includes supermarkets, and I was comfortable with that to begin with. But, as we\u2019ve found out through the select committee stage\u2014and I do want to acknowledge the work of every single member from every party in this House for the collaborative and constructive way in which they dealt with that\u2014we found that, actually, what would have happened was that these days, for those businesses where you can order alcohol online and get it delivered, the current rules are that you can order on the day but it can\u2019t be delivered until the next day, and they would have actually been able to deliver on the day. So bottle stores couldn\u2019t open, but online deliveries could, and there was no way to get around it. Basically, we either had to include all off-licences or none at all, and I supported the select committee\u2019s view that we include none at all, because if we had included them all, it would have gone beyond the intent of the bill to focus on those businesses that are already allowed to open and we would have lost the debate, like it has been lost every other time before. By bringing it on to on-licensed premises, it becomes extremely clear and extremely simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to take the opportunity to acknowledge Cameron Luxton because his amendment at the committee stage actually did what the bill was intended to do in the first place\u2014and this is always the risk when it comes to members\u2019 bills. Most members have submitted a bill to the ballot and they will know for themselves that we don\u2019t have the resources that Governments do when it comes to drafting bills, and so it\u2019s quite common for select committees to identify gaps, etc., and look to improve it\u2014basically, that\u2019s the point of a select committee. When it became evident that in the absence of Cameron Luxton\u2019s amendment, there still would have been anomalies, I was very happy to support it and I was very pleased that Parliament chose to, as well, and so now, here we are, with this bill, which is extremely clear-cut and extremely simple. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to acknowledge the way in which this debate has been conducted, because this is a conscience vote for a reason. Parliament treats these issues as a conscience issue because it recognises by convention that even within parties, who will share the same values and share the same principles, it\u2019s quite possible or probable that you may have different views on this matter, and, indeed, that\u2019s how it has played out in the various stages of this bill. But it\u2019s not just the way in which the debate has been conducted in a respectful and courteous manner in this Chamber; it\u2019s also the way in which it\u2019s been conducted through the submissions process of the select committee, and also the various correspondence that I\u2019ve received from people either thanking me for bringing this issue forward or expressing concern and urging me either to withdraw the bill or to not support it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThose that oppose it can broadly be put into two camps: those that have genuinely held and legitimate concerns around increasing access to alcohol and the harm that that might cause, and those that hold these days to be sacred and wish for this change not to go ahead on that basis. I respect both of those views. While I disagree, I do recognise that they are legitimate and I do respect them, and I will respond to them briefly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBecause these businesses are already allowed to open, we\u2019re actually not increasing the availability of alcohol. People can go to these premises on these days anyway, but they have to go through, basically, a farce of a process to be able to purchase a drink. There is no evidence that has been provided that what is being proposed in this bill will actually increase harm, and increasing access to off-licences would have had a much larger chance of increasing harm because that doesn\u2019t come with the restrictions and monitoring that it does when people are purchasing on-licence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo those that hold these days to be sacred, again I say that I respect that view. When I go to Mass on Easter Sunday, that should have no bearing on the choice of others. If they choose to go to Mass, fine; if they choose not to, fine\u2014that is entirely their choice. But why should people feel that their perceived views that people should not go to the pub\u2014that\u2019s fine: don\u2019t go to the pub, but let\u2019s not stop others from making that choice. Also, let\u2019s recognise that, actually, the vast majority of Christian denominations do not prohibit the consumption of alcohol on those days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve got to ask the question: why have we got these rules? We will still hold Easter and Christmas Day and Anzac Day in high regard and as having a special standing in our society. Enabling people to purchase a drink at the pub will not take away from that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill also\u2014very finally\u2014enables RSAs to serve members of the public that are joining veterans after an Anzac Day service on the morning of Anzac Day without having to get a special licence. This is a change that has been welcomed by the RSAs. They have had to jump through hoops to welcome in their community after an Anzac Day\u2014a very special day for this country. RSAs are the focal point of the community, and they will no longer have to go through this burden.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI thank everybody for their consideration of this bill. We\u2019re on the third reading. On the verge of passing it, I would strongly urge you to continue your support for it, and thank you for it thus far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f23fd79eb9f412f58690ac975849e75\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to reiterate for those people who have just come into the House that we are taking five-minute calls from here on, for those people who have actually indicated to me that they want to take a call. If you wish to take a call, please, come up and indicate to me. At this stage, I will say the question is that the motion be agreed to. I\u2019m going to try to balance it up, so I\u2019m going to call on Dr David Wilson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u002212aed75771c142f22e95937befaae1b8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002212aed75771c142f22e95937befaae1b8\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (16:31)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to the Hon Kieran McAnulty for laying out some of those issues. I fit into both of those categories, so thank you, Kieran. Yes, I believe and we believe that access to alcohol has many harms associated with it. I won\u2019t go through all the evidence, because I think most of you will have covered a lot of that evidence. I wish to add one little one that I found in the US, and that was called \u201CHoliday Heart Syndrome\u201D. Simply put, access to alcohol increases arrhythmia and stroke. It\u2019s a lot about the access, and whichever way you cut it, you are opening access through this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wish to switch now to the kinds of values that we hold. In my understanding around Anzac, Christmas, and Easter, things like remembrance, reflection, reverence, respect, and tradition are important. I\u2019m reminded of when my wife and I were in a beautiful place in France called Amiens. We walked into a church, and in that church\u2014it\u2019s a beautiful church, of course\u2014which was over 500 years old, it had pillars reaching to the roof, as high as you could see. Then, when we walked to those pillars, we realised that those pillars had names carved in them all the way to the roof. We also recognised that they were New Zealand names. Two wonderful women who were there that day came up to me and Anna, and said, \u201CWhere are you from?\u201D, and we said, \u201CWe\u2019re from New Zealand.\u201D She said, \u201CThank you. Thank you so much for defending our city.\u201D, and we said, \u201CThank you so much for remembering us.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe think these things are really important. I\u2019m lucky to have such a beautiful wife who actually adheres to tradition. In fact, she builds traditions for our home. She has brought into our household the tradition of Christmas every year, and it then falls to me to find a relevant 12-foot tree to get into our house and make sure it doesn\u2019t fall down, decorate it, and then do something with it at the end of the break. But, yes, I have taken that on board, and it is a wonderful tradition. I think that what we\u2019re dealing with here is that these are really, really important traditions for us to own and have, and to carry forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m thinking about the M\u0101ori Battalion, and the new memorial and museum at Paihia. You must visit this. The warriors and what that M\u0101ori battalion had to go through, in terms of how they had to become noticed and accepted, and their bravery\u2014it warms the cockles of your heart to understand how important these people are to us, to us as New Zealanders, and in their case, as M\u0101ori. It\u2019s part of our inheritance, it\u2019s part of our nationhood, it\u2019s part of our values: fairness, empathy, respect. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMost of all, these holidays are part of us. They\u2019re part of our history, and part of who we are as a nation. They all have meaning, and that meaning goes far beyond having a tipple or a few drinks. I think it\u2019s a small price to pay for us to actually take that meaning on board and think through carefully what it means to us\u2014what these things mean to us in this day and age. Remembrance is so important for us, and it is so important for our youth to know who they are and where they stand in this nation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not much to ask to take some time to reflect, to revere, and to respect, and then to celebrate with friends and family. A small degree of restriction for a few days, to reinforce shared traditions and values, is a very small price to pay. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022c74b908225c7e8f77280d96304216bec\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c74b908225c7e8f77280d96304216bec\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (16:36)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise in support of this bill. As members may know, I had a crack at something similar early in the term, but, back then, I got some sage advice from the Hon Kieran McAnulty. He told me I was biting off a bit too much, and, as it transpired, he was right. My bill was voted down. It was dealing with a much broader issue around restrictions on Easter trading. It was defeated at first reading, but here we are with a much narrower bill reaching its third reading. I have to say Kieran McAnulty has done a bloody good job in getting his member\u2019s bill to this point, and I really do give him all my support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhy are we here? Kiwis have matured a great deal in the 110 years since prohibition was so very nearly the law of this land, and if it were not for the votes of the soldiers overseas, it well would have been. We recognise the harms now, and increasingly, that alcohol can cause, and have developed laws and norms which regulate ourselves. These keep us safe for 360 days of the year, and so this is not a vote for having no laws; it is a vote to expand the laws that work on all of those days to the 3\u00BD restricted trading days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs Kiwis, when we are asked to justify or debate the minor points of a substantial meal or are turfed out with that classic song playing too early in the night\u2014you know it, members\u2014\u201CYou Don\u2019t Have To Go Home (But You Can\u2019t Stay Here)\u201D, we can all recognise the absurdity of treating responsible adults this way; the absurdity of treating licensed venues, the operators, and the managers this way, as not worthy of hosting their guests for celebrations with friends and family in a way they choose and on a day that matters to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen there\u2019s the celebration that will be cut short in Christchurch on what could be the biggest celebration of the year, a spectacle of rugby long-awaited with the opening of Te Kaha One New Zealand Stadium. There will be much of memory and revelation, I\u2019m sure, with teams from across the Tasman recognising our shared Anzac past. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI realised that this bill as originally drafted, while making important changes, would unintentionally leave out many bars and pubs across Christchurch and force them to close at 11.59 p.m. on the day before Anzac Day, as a restricted trading day. For a city like Christchurch, which has been through so much and waited so long, that would have been devastating. The House has backed and voted for my amendment to fix up that part and I am grateful for the support of the sponsor of this bill, and I think that might be why it got over the line.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve had many questions asked of me about this, and so I want to take this opportunity to address precisely what my amendment does. The amendment says, \u201CThe premises for which an on-licence is held may remain open during the permitted trading hours that apply to the premises.\u201D Some have questioned whether the words \u201Cmay remain open\u201D refer to a bar being allowed to open on that day, or whether it means that they must remain open and stay open past the 11.59 p.m. deadline on the day before. So, Madam Speaker, if you\u2019ll forgive me, I\u2019ll go into some detail and read a little bit, not only for the benefit of honourable members but also to ensure that Parliament\u2019s intent is absolutely clear when interpreting this law. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe wording \u201Cmay remain open\u201D is deliberately used because it reflects the established terminology of the Shop Trading Hours Act 1990. That Act uses the same phrase as provisions such as \u201CCertain shops may remain open\u201D and \u201CGarden centres may remain open on Easter Sunday\u201D. In that context, \u201Cmay remain open\u201D has never been understood to mean that a business must already be open immediately prior to the restricted trading day, rather it is simply meaning that those businesses are permitted to open and trade on those days. The same meaning is intended here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew section 45A in new clause 4A is intended to allow a premises holding an on-licence to operate on restricted trading days in the same way that they would on any other day of the year, subject only to their ordinary licence conditions. That includes both remaining open if already operating and opening at a time permitted under their licence, even if the premises was not open immediately prior to the restricted trading date. To be clear, this provision is not limited to allowing trading past midnight; it is enabling a licensed premises to open the day and close and reopen in accordance with their usual licensing hours.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EShould this bill become law in time for the weekend, an on-licensed business may, subject to their licence conditions, open on Good Friday and Easter Sunday or remain open. That is the intent. It is clear, and it is aligned with the original intent of the bill. If this\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209a0a4cd90a4de6a3cbb34a5ea301d0f\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022 data-id=\u002267d0567fcc22de3c5f2877224fcbabdc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022258b65104d9046dfb49eb940c68bddda\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002267d0567fcc22de3c5f2877224fcbabdc\u0022\u003ELEMAUGA LYDIA SOSENE (Labour\u2014M\u0101ngere) (16:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I really appreciate the opportunity to make a contribution. I do want to acknowledge the member, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, for his considered, respectful approach in terms of this bill. It has been helpful to understand the components and the aspects that\u2019s he\u2019s strongly supporting, and he has explained that today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI speak on behalf of our community members across Aotearoa who have emailed me to continue opposing this bill, and I have a number of reasons that I just want to outline the reasons for that. In my hood in South Auckland, specifically in M\u0101ngere, we have got the most faith communities across South Auckland, with a number of churches and mosques and those who come together. Whilst they do acknowledge that there is a time in their busy diaries when they do appreciate alcohol, for the sale and supply with this specific bill, a number of them have said to me in their personal views verbally and personal views in writing that they want to keep Anzac Day morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday\u2014specifically, Good Friday and Easter Sunday. For many of the faith communities, they hold those days quite dearly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have a number of challenges with alcohol in M\u0101ngere in South Auckland. A number of our youth, unfortunately, are not as respectful. We have quite a diverse group of young people, which is colourful in many ways, but some of them just cannot handle alcohol and overconsumption. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have appreciated the different view, or the respectful way in which my colleague the Hon Kieran McAnulty has explained this bill, and also what is written in this bill. However, I need to stand up and say something for those who oppose it, because they want protection, specifically, for those Easter days, and also for Christmas Day. I think with Anzac Day, the issue there is we have had many soldiers and the families of returned services members and they deserve to be respected on Anzac Day, and so there is provision there. However, for those three days, one of the things that I\u2019ve heard from submitters is the cultural significance of faith communities, and why is it important? They want to see that there are continued restrictions in terms of protecting those specific four days, and also Easter is very important to Christian communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI take the opportunity to speak out and continue opposing this specific bill, and even if we get to the point where we lose the vote, that\u2019s all good\u2014at least I\u2019ve managed to voice our concerns from people across Aotearoa. They might be small in numbers, but it is significant that they want protection and preservation of those specific cultural days, and the significance is that with a 24-hour, seven-day open dairy online and all the different platforms, people do need to take a rest and acknowledge the significance in different communities. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not saying that\u2019s all communities, and, like I said in another contribution earlier, there is a place for alcohol. People do like to relax. They do like to go to a place where they can feel comfortable and where they\u2019re able to purchase, but, on this occasion, I do have to stand with the members of my community who are saying that enough is enough. In my neck of the woods, there is far too much accessibility to alcohol and we have a real problem with some of our young people who are probably only 15 years old and look like they\u2019re 21, and so they get away with purchasing different things at different times. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe last point I want to make is about the significance of Christmas Day, Easter Sunday, and Good Friday. Those are really important times for different members of our community. We have a very diverse community in M\u0101ngere and across South Auckland, and so it is important to highlight those reasons because they want to see that members of Parliament hear both sides. Whilst there is a large group of our members who will support this bill, there are those in our community who have opposing views. Thank you, Madam Speaker. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[XXX 16:46:32 \u2013 audio is from 1 April 2026]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2047dd474c646107cc3c39b90b478ba\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2047dd474c646107cc3c39b90b478ba\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:46)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to stand and take the first opportunity for a call from the National Party, which is proudly a party that is a broad church. And there are a variety of views on this side of the House on this specific piece of legislation. I think it\u2019s really important that members of the general public get the opportunity to hear that representatives from different political parties, just like we\u2019ve heard from the member that\u2019s just taken her seat, can have differing views within their own party on a specific piece of legislation, based on whether it may be religious values, whether it may be cultural values, whether it may just be something that is on their own conscience, whether it may be the views of their wider community. But I think it\u2019s really important that through this debate you\u2019ll hear a variety of views from this side in support and in opposition to the legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EFrom my perspective, I am in support of the legislation. I have supported it from the first reading, through the select committee, at the second reading, and now at the third and final reading. I had the privilege of being a member of the Justice Committee where we considered the legislation, and alongside particularly my National colleagues Carl Bates, the Hon Andrew Bayly, and Rima Nakhle who, in and amongst ourselves, held different views on the legislation. We listened intently to those who made submissions on it, whether it was hospitality groups, the retail sector who said, \u201CPlease tidy this up; make it more workable for us. It\u2019s confusing. We are the ones on the front line who have to let the customers down. Please just make it more straightforward for us.\u201D And then we heard the other side of the argument, those from church or religious organisations who said, \u201CThese are cultural or really important religious days for us and please give us the opportunity to breathe on those days.\u201D And I think David Wilson was articulating that in his earlier contribution as well. The reason I settled on being in support of the legislation is not for self-interest. Last reading, the Hon Erica Stanford said I wasn\u2019t old enough to drink alcohol, but I don\u2019t actually consume alcohol. It\u2019s a personal decision that I\u2019ve made. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022828db76f47eb57ab2177715b3db17ac5\u0022\u003EHon Rachel Brooking\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019re a married man.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d61d7b6785b8b7497d22c0f27976e18f\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CA married man.\u201D, Rachel Brooking says. Yes, but I make my own decisions. Sometimes. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] It was going so well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226dcc58d6d7956787393203dd15374503\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I couldn\u2019t possibly adjudicate that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b050367128f6b6777220c2f35b6653e7\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. I must not tell lies in this place, Madam Speaker, but I don\u2019t\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022116628cb4619c560c8807c3f93194fd7\u0022\u003EHon Willow-Jean Prime\u003C/span\u003E: And withdraw and apologise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222cbbf73022f76b8093994e4a9ce2a28d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, thankfully it\u2019s 4.50, she\u2019s definitely not watching. She\u2019s got far better things to be doing with her time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe reason why I support it is because there\u2019s no self-gain from it, but who am I to stand in the place of someone who on Good Friday or Easter Sunday or Anzac Day, wants to go down to the pub, wants to go to the restaurant, to a bar to enjoy a beverage with their friends. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a4e50df5985d50f75767650dccfd2a\u0022\u003ESuze Redmayne\u003C/span\u003E: Can\u2019t be bothered cooking.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ac770d83ee384d201f852f18678b808\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: And that\u2019s right, Suze Redmayne. It might just be that day that they go, \u201CActually, why don\u2019t we as a family or as wh\u0101nau or as friends just go out and have a nice time and not have to face that hurdle that we often face of\u2014oh no, we better order a substantial meal.\u201D Well, someone\u2019s on a diet and they were just going to order a side salad, but they can\u2019t have an alcoholic beverage now, and now they must order the entire Caesar salad so that they can enjoy having the cider they were going to have to accompany it. It\u2019s just ridiculous. It\u2019s outrageous. In 2026, it\u2019s an anomaly that I think, ultimately, this piece of legislation is going to tidy up.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the really good things that we did through the progression of this legislation is remove the ability for it to focus on supermarkets and bottle stores, because that\u2019s not actually the intention\u2014what this legislation is aiming to remedy and fix. It\u2019s not about people being able to pop out to the bottle store, because they had opportunities to be more organised or to have things at home or whatever else; it\u2019s for those who go out to the pub, to the restaurants, and to the bars. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing that is really front of mind and is coming up near the end of this month is Anzac Day, which is a really, really important day for us as a country. We have heard from numerous RSAs across the country who face rigmaroles all the time around the challenges of having to be able to serve alcohol on Anzac Day to their patrons. Now, it\u2019s not about everybody getting intoxicated, but it\u2019s about having the opportunity to remember and to be with one another on a really special day for New Zealand and for our history and for where we are going as a country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I said at the start of the contribution, the National Party, on this side, has a variety of views. We are a broad church. You\u2019ve heard from me in favour of the legislation, you\u2019ll hear from colleagues opposed to it, but, ultimately, I think that\u2019s what makes politics really, really important in this place and why this conscience issue is really important for us all to take a stand on.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288adbd35f533c1b84de8e3362660a143\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve got a bit of a roster going here, and I\u2019d like to now call the Hon Mark Patterson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022 data-id=\u00228b54b49eda06a66e90246582309c09c9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228b54b49eda06a66e90246582309c09c9\u0022\u003EHon MARK PATTERSON (Minister for Rural Communities) (16:51)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Can I just start by acknowledging the member Kieran McAnulty for bringing the bill forward and carefully and skilfully, actually, shepherding it the House to this point\u2014a little too skilfully for my liking, because in an hour\u2019s time or so, or less than an hour\u2019s time we face crossing the Rubicon. Individual members will be voting according to their conscience. Will they vote to uphold their traditional New Zealand values, history, and traditions? Will they respect our Christian heritage, sacred Christian celebrations of Christmas, Easter Sunday, and Good Friday? Will they acknowledge the solemn commemoration of Anzac Day morning? Or will they sacrifice that heritage at the altar of consumerism and consumption?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDo members fully understand the cultural shift they are being asked to endorse? Are they comfortable that on these sacred days people will be spilling out of bars and night clubs at all hours. It\u2019s a slippery slope\u2014making them just another day. Don\u2019t get me wrong; I\u2019m no wowser here. I\u2019ve spilled out of my fair share of pubs and night clubs over the time, but it does not have to be those days\u2014those 3\u00BD days where the world doesn\u2019t stop, but it slows down. It\u2019s time for families, it\u2019s time for commemorations, it\u2019s time for celebrations of very important events. The status quo might be a bit clunky, but it is not the end of the world. Business has found the ability to perfectly work through that in the past. It\u2019s a very small sacrifice to make.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI will be voting to protect these important days from the scourge of consumerism, and I\u2019m proud to stand by my New Zealand First colleagues in standing up for our Christian heritage, standing up for our traditional Kiwi values, and voting against this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022 data-id=\u0022b986bbb092b7ca2aab03dc432c37cbc3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b986bbb092b7ca2aab03dc432c37cbc3\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie) (16:54)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, thank you very much for the opportunity to take a call on this bill. First of all, can I acknowledge, as my colleague Tom Rutherford did, the complexities of this and acknowledge the range of views that are present in this House?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor me, this has been an interesting bill. I am the cofounder of, I think, New Zealand\u2019s only conservative public policy think tank, the Maxim Institute, and many years ago I would have voted against this bill, but I rise today to vote for it. As a conservative, I\u2019m not opposed to change. I am in favour of incremental change, and that is one of several reasons why I do support this bill. I think it is a wise and incremental change to legislation that does need adjustment, and I want to speak to that very briefly. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have found sometimes as I\u2019ve sat through the earlier stages of this bill\u2014and this is the first time I\u2019ve taken a call on it, because I\u2019ve been thinking about it carefully\u2014when I have considered what the content of this legislation is, my mind has turned to the joke of the ham sandwich that walks into a pub, goes up to the bar, and orders a drink and is told by the publican, \u201CI\u2019m sorry mate. We don\u2019t serve food in here.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this legislation is a very simple and, as I mentioned, incremental change. It is simply an adjustment to 3\u00BD very special days of the year, 3\u00BD days  that are very special to New Zealanders, and particularly to some\u2014including myself, and I\u2019ll speak to that in a moment\u2014where it is currently the requirement, as has been spelled out well by a number of colleagues, including in detail by my friend and colleague Cameron Luxton, for one to buy a substantial meal if they want to consume a beverage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAll that this bill does is remove that requirement. It doesn\u2019t change the liquor licensing laws. It doesn\u2019t change shop hours, and all of that has been laid out. It just makes that simple change. I believe that that is a good and incremental change. I do not believe that that change in anyway affects the sanctity, the sacredness, and the specialness of those days. As a keen follower of Jesus Christ, my Christian faith is absolutely the foundation of my life and it\u2019s the prism and the lens through which I see the world and understand what a human being is and what we\u2019re here for. I love particularly three of those days. I love Anzac Day as well for different reasons. But those three days, Easter Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day are, for me, the most special days of the year. I will most certainly be at church this weekend and at the end of the year as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhether my colleagues and friends, whether they are church attenders or not, are having a steak and chips with their beer that afternoon, does not in any way affect the sacredness of those days, and, in fact, I\u2019m very likely to be found to be having a drink on those days as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe final reflection I want to share is, again, as this conversation has been going on in this House now for a few months, that I was reminded of a time many years ago when my wife and I were first married and lived in London and we went away to a church conference one weekend in north London. At the end of the meeting on a Friday night, a guy called Nicky Gumbel had finished speaking and he invited people to the front for prayer while the musicians played softly, and then he said, \u201CFor those of you who aren\u2019t in for that, if you just look around behind you now, you\u2019ll see that the bar is open.\u201D It was a memory that I haven\u2019t had for a while, but it spoke to me quite powerfully of, I think, a very healthy relationship with alcohol. I do think that this legislation, amongst other things, is an opportunity for us to make a considered incremental and mature step forward in terms of a healthy relationship with alcohol, a healthy respect for differences, and not be fearful of what this means to our sacred days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor all those reasons, I thank the member for bringing this bill to the House. I thank all members for their careful and respectful consideration of this bill. My favourite time in this House was the committee of the whole House. It was us working together\u2014it was something else; a vision of what this place can be. So I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f890500253624430aa3b6dda370f89d4\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m going to call Kahurangi Carter next, and I want to indicate that I\u2019ve only got two further names of people who have indicated they wish to speak. If anyone has come into the House over the recent little while and wishes to add their name to the list, please come and see me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u00229a886b53924d5f4cdc742be68d7ab04c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a886b53924d5f4cdc742be68d7ab04c\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (16:59)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Today, we\u2019re talking on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill. There is a drug that is the leading cause of preventable death and morbidity around the world and here at home. It costs our country upward of $7 billion annually, according to a leading economics firm. This drug features significantly in emergency service callouts, many times where violence and aggression are involved. We know that prohibition doesn\u2019t work. It has never worked and only makes those drugs far more harmful because of the circumstances it creates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis drug, the nation\u2019s most harmful is, of course, alcohol. Drugs, like alcohol, tobacco, and cannabis exist. The question for legislators should always be: how do we create law to reduce harm? There\u2019s a broad spectrum of approaches, here, and at both extremes, you see the maximisation of harm. At one end, you have criminal prohibition, and, at the other end, you have an open slather free market. At each extreme, whether it\u2019s criminal organisations or commercial entities, you see those making money exploiting vulnerable communities by selling as much as these substances as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe evidence shows New Zealand has among the highest rates of alcohol harm on almost every metric. The law is a complex and unwieldly beast for both communities and small operators to navigate and this tells you that the law is not fit for purpose. We need a common-sense approach to drug and alcohol harm reduction and we, as a country, won\u2019t fix these serious issues the way successive Governments have approached it\u2014like Luxon\u2019s Government, this term of Parliament, who have done nothing to advance drug law reform to make our communities safer. In fact, the only drug law reform has been to make purchasing alcohol easier. We need bold leadership to do what successive Governments have been too scared to do, what communities and public health experts, the ones at the front lines, have been calling on politicians to do for decades: to overhaul the Sale and Supply of Alcohol Act. The Law Commission told this House that in 2010, and they told us about the Misuse of Drugs Act in 2012. When are we willing to do the logical and consistent thing and regulate according to reducing harm? \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs our communities wait for sensible laws, the Government does less than the bare minimum and in ways that is cheered on by industry\u2014probably gives you a hint as to who amendments like this actually benefit. The Greens have a long history of fighting alongside communities through alcohol harm reduction laws to minimise drug harm. In 2022, our current Green Party co-leader Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s member\u2019s bill, the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Harm Minimisation) Amendment Bill, was drawn from the biscuit tin. This bill had extensive support from Alcohol Healthwatch and local councils, including Christchurch and Auckland City councils and many other local councils supported it too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn June 2025, the Christchurch City Council agreed on a new set of rules for how alcohol can be sold and supplied across the city\u2014the Local Alcohol Policy, or the LAP. It took the hard work of our communities who, throughout the process, consistently told councillors that the wider community wanted sensible local alcohol policy. The key aim of this LAP was to address the harm caused by alcohol in our Christchurch communities. The result of the LAP is a focus on making alcohol less available at certain times, particularly in areas where easy access to alcohol can increase harm in community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process, the Alcohol Healthwatch said this bill could further perpetuate the harm caused by alcohol and that extensive research tells us alcohol-related harm in Aotearoa is at unacceptably high levels. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Green Party is united in our position that we cannot support this bill. The Green Party have always stood for sensible evidence-based drug harm minimisation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022 data-id=\u00226ddda22d808c5b175d916005ae00723c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002200ae89b8149340638b3bd22c705616a9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226ddda22d808c5b175d916005ae00723c\u0022\u003EINGRID LEARY (Labour\u2014Taieri) (17:04)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr. Speaker. It\u2019s certainly a fascinating debate. I listened intently to the contribution of the member Greg Fleming, who talked about incremental changes being a positive, because I, also, recognise that this is very incremental. For that reason, in fact, I am going to vote against this bill because my vote is really a protest vote.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to add my voice to those acknowledging the work of the Hon Kieran McAnulty and acknowledging the very, very, very small incremental change this bill would make. However, I can\u2019t, in good conscience, continue to see bills come before the House that incrementally change, small, nuanced parts of a wider architecture that urgently needs reform. My protest vote is to say that, while I don\u2019t have an issue with the content of the bill, I do have a very big issue with the way that this House approaches alcohol. The need for reform and some of those evidenced-based statistics we have heard around New Zealand\u2019s relative harm profile, around the impact on communities, including in South Auckland where there is evidence that some school children are going past five or six alcohol stores every day on their way to school. Saturated in the visibility, saturated in marketing and advertising through sports clubs, that might not otherwise be thought to be able to survive without that advertising. I did support Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u2019s reformist member\u2019s bill, that was referred to by Kahurangi Carter, for those reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is not a moral stance. I believe that we have wonderful Christian people in this country; we also have people of many other faiths who may not acknowledge those days or those traditions. So, for me, this is not a Church versus State kind of debate; this is about what we can do responsibly to try to respond to the issue of legislation that is well out of date, as has been said. The fact that it is so difficult to bring reform to this House that even the cross-party mental health group cannot get a discussion about alcohol harm reduction and a meaningful piece of work onto our agenda because some political parties will not support that. Yet at the same time, we have the Online Casino Gambling Bill going through the House, not as a conscience vote, yet with all indications that there is extensive harm to be caused. The admission that this is a bill, which, essentially, not only opens and regulates a market but expands it and makes it competitive, which incentivises marketing to our young people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo there are all sorts of contradictions that take place in this House, and, today, we have seen the best of the good parts, which is collegial and really thoughtful and well-considered debate and respect about something complex. But I do worry that we are not having the real conversation, which is about how we have a proper comprehensive look at alcohol reform that might do things like tweak the Easter and Anzac Day rules in the way that this bill does, but that might also reduce the harm and exposure on our young people. I question the reason why we are not able to have that debate. That is a very big issue for me. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, I don\u2019t have a problem with our Anzac people having a tipple on Anzac Day. In fact my understanding from insiders in the Defence Force is that it\u2019s quite normal to do that prior to the Anzac Day services. So again, this is not a moral position; it is merely a protest vote. But I think, wearing my mental health spokespersonship hat and my commitment to wanting to make laws in a good way that are transformational and that are reformist and not let incrementalism stop us from having the big debates, I will continue to vote against all incremental alcohol bills, including this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022 data-id=\u0022829e0187e9094cccc20382dfe1b1e361\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022829e0187e9094cccc20382dfe1b1e361\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill) (17:08)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Like my colleague Tom Rutherford just mentioned, the National Party is a very broad church\u2014we have different views. I think they\u2019re very similar to my electorate as well, which is Mt Roskill, they are very diverse as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am here to stand on behalf of the people of Mt Roskill to oppose this legislation. The reason of it is not only because this is about faith, community, but I think this is also about alcohol harm, as well about the failure of our country. When I did my survey, I asked my constituents, \u201CAre you guys opposed or do you agree with all this legislation which will allow alcohol sales on Anzac Day?\u201D I think the majority of people said, \u201CYes, we are happy to allow people to buy, to have a drink, to enjoy themselves on Anzac Day.\u201D It\u2019s no question asked on this one. But once I say, \u201CHow about on Easter and Christmas?\u201D Oh, the result is actually completely opposite. The majority of my people said \u201CNo\u201D\u2014they say no.  This is the reason I\u2019m standing here to oppose the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet me give some of the comments my constituents have been mentioning. One of them: New Zealand has long been a country of faith and many of the founding laws and policies were instituted for those core moral reasons, and having alcohol sales at Christmas and Easter is against that feeling. Another constituent actually emailed me, saying, \u201CAlcohol is definitely not contributing to the spirit of a composed or reflective state of mind. Those guarded memorial days deserve, or are probably even required to help us to understand ourselves; our shared culture.\u201D You can see that a lot of feedback has been sent in\u2014I appreciate it was not only to me, but to a lot of our colleagues here as well\u2014to stand against this legislation. As I say, those 3\u00BD days are special days for our faith communities, and I think most of the people will like it to remain the way it is.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk about the business side. A lot of people are also lobbying and sending us emails saying, \u201CHey Carlos, allowing us to sell alcohol on Easter or even Christmas will help us to go through the tough times\u201D\u2014to allow the business to be in a little bit of profit. I\u2019ll share a story with you guys. One of my friends actually opened a takeaway in my electorate. He\u2019s a Christian. What has happened is that he believed that, \u201CYes, I need to open seven days in order to maximise my profit.\u201D What\u2019s happened? That\u2019s led to his health going down. He\u2019s not feeling well and is going to hospital. Then, after that, he changed. He talked to God and he asked God for advice. He changed the opening hours to only six days a week now\u2014he takes Sunday off. Everyone was telling him, \u201CHey, if you do that, will that mean that your income will be less? Is this sustainable?\u201D I asked the same question. The answer for him was, \u201CCarlos, no, actually, my profit is pretty much the same, because people were willing to go to the shops to buy food on the other days. It\u2019s not really affecting the business.\u201D They don\u2019t see any growth or drop in business turnover. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think this bill doesn\u2019t really help businesses to get a little bit more profit, but that actually creates a problem, which is called alcohol harm. I think, with alcohol, as has been mentioned, a lot of family violence, physical or verbal abuse, is caused because of people intoxicated, or alcohol harm. Also, I think one of the many things here is that we want our veterans to have a glass of wine. Yes, I think the intention of it is very good, but one thing I know is that they have sacrificed themselves fighting for a better country. Is that the country they\u2019re actually fighting for, with people suffering from alcohol harm or other alcohol-related abuse? Is that what they\u2019re fighting for? Has the member actually talked to them and said, \u201CNow, I\u2019ll give you an option. You can choose to enjoy having a glass of wine on Anzac Day or you can see someone actually suffer due to alcohol harm.\u201D I\u2019m sure the answer for our veterans is, \u201CNo, I want a better future for New Zealand. I don\u2019t want anyone getting hurt or being harmed.\u201D For that, this is why I\u2019m here to stand opposed to the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e73aa6067ae223dc9a399c744892e377\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e73aa6067ae223dc9a399c744892e377\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (17:13)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take a call in this debate today, at the third reading. I wasn\u2019t actually going to take a call, but I listened to a couple of my colleagues who, I felt, made really good speeches, so I thought I\u2019d come down and make a contribution so that it is on record. It\u2019s not where you stand in moments of calmness; it\u2019s actually where you stand in moments of controversy that matter, and I want it to be known for the electorate of Northcote\u2014the people I represent\u2014what my position is. I am supportive of today\u2019s legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EI want to start out by saying I am a person of Catholic faith\u2014my priest will say I\u2019m probably a lapsed Catholic, but that is the perspective that I bring to this place. I don\u2019t talk about my faith because I believe in a separation of Church and State, and I don\u2019t think that that should be brought into the debate in this House in any way whatsoever. It is the perspective that I bring but, for the reasons that my colleague Tom Rutherford outlined, I don\u2019t believe that I should be telling others, and this House should be telling others, what to do on those special days. \u201CWho am I?\u201D is what you said, and I reflected on that and I thought, \u201CWell, actually, who are we as a House?\u201D We\u2019re no better than the people of New Zealand. The Ministers have the same flaws as members of the public, so we are no particular gurus and we have no higher authority to be telling others how they live their lives. I don\u2019t think that we should be telling others, if you want to have a beverage on those days, what type of beverage it is. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e5b0ec5e5b367de1c1873627ecedbcc0\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s no obligation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226864c3339cbad92c7b3648aae3ad360c\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: There is no obligation, so I think that\u2019s what brings me to support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have a personal view that I think New Zealand is far overregulated for the size of our country. If you look at why we are low income, low productivity relative to the rest of the world\u2014and I\u2019ve lived all over the world and seen that actually we are well overregulated. We go to the nth degree where we shouldn\u2019t do, and I think this bill goes some way to rectifying that. I did actually support some of the amendments to widen the scope of this bill. I don\u2019t actually know if they made it through, but I was broadly supportive of giving power back to the people, from this House, for them to determine the way they go about their conduct during those special days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill updates the law for, I think, current society. I think, to the member who has spoken from the other side who talked about alcohol issues, if I can just indulge the House. I lived in France for a few years and I was amazed at how liberal the alcohol laws were in France but how the attitude of the French actually\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u2014yes\u2014 how the attitude of the French played out. I got speaking to a number of my French colleagues, who said that the attitude in the way they bring up their kids with respect to the respect of alcohol is very different to what I would term \u201CAnglo-Saxon culture\u201D. It was only a weekend trip to London via the Eurostar where you realise the Anglo-Saxon culture. It is very similar to New Zealand\u2019s culture\u2014and Australia\u2019s, Canada\u2019s, and the United States\u2019\u2014of binge drinking. I think, actually, that\u2019s at the heart of the discussion. It is not legislative; it is cultural, and I would love a debate about how we improve the cultural attitude towards alcohol in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to end by acknowledging the member who has brought forward this bill\u2014congratulations\u2014but I do want to acknowledge the previous member, Cameron Luxton, for your bill several months earlier, which we had an opportunity to vote on, and I supported, but that was voted down because of particular party positions. It is great that we\u2019re here today\u2014I do hope this bill goes through\u2014but it would have been great to have been here six months ago. To play politics with things like this is utterly unacceptable, and I do hope that members on the opposite side reflect that with future debates. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022c4eb1d1e01943bf5756184c2b29ced36\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c4eb1d1e01943bf5756184c2b29ced36\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (17:18)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I appreciate the fact that I\u2019m also getting an opportunity to share my views with respect to this bill in the name of the member the Hon Kieran McAnulty. As I mentioned during the committee of the whole House stage, I do oppose this bill and I continue to oppose this bill, notwithstanding the fact that I respect the views\u2014particularly from my colleagues in the National Party and Government and also across the House\u2014on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor many years now, I\u2019ve attended Papakura Marae on Christmas Day. What happens on Christmas Day at Papakura Marae is there\u2019s a charitable trust called Whaitiaki trust, which is run by many very good, decent folk, including my good friend Whaea Anne Kendall. What they do is they provide a Christmas lunch for many families that are otherwise in need or people that just want some community or to be around community. Papakura Marae is a no-smoking and no-alcohol venue, and there\u2019s a reason for that. That\u2019s why they\u2019re no-alcohol. I suspect that one of the reasons is because alcohol is a very big problem for families in South Auckland and all around New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI love the fact that my colleague Dan Bidois spoke about the attitude to alcohol, which I touched upon in my last speech with respect to this bill. Attitudes are different around the world, and I see very clearly that in New Zealand\u2014and I grew up in Australia\u2014our attitude towards alcohol is one where, \u201CLet\u2019s all get drunk. We can\u2019t have a good time\u201D\u2014not for all people, of course\u2014\u201Cwe can\u2019t have a good time unless we get drunk.\u201D Unfortunately, the maturity towards alcohol is not necessarily the case here in New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s why I do oppose this bill; it is, as I said before, allowing extra access to alcohol on days, particularly, where children have a right to have their parents fully present\u2014on these days that, to many, are sacred and, to many, are not necessarily sacred but are days where they get the opportunity to switch off from everything else and just allow themselves to be in the presence of their kids, or for their kids to have their presence, unhindered by the desire to go to the pub, to go to a restaurant, and \u201CLet\u2019s start going on the booze.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt saddens me\u2014it saddens me that the quiet moments that a lot of us reflect on when we were younger\u2014I reflect very clearly on days when mum and dad would go start off our Sunday at church and we\u2019d come home and we\u2019d have a kind of lunch underneath the fig tree at the bottom of the yard, all together. That was our family quiet time. I reflect on some of the kids I see coming to Papakura Marae and to other places around South Auckland, kids that love their parents so much. Sometimes, I\u2019ve seen the parents obviously hungover, obviously coming down from just taking drugs, and I reflect on them, Mr Kieran McAnulty, when I think about whether we couldn\u2019t just leave these 3\u00BD days alone for these kids to have their parents fully present. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt saddens me, because it\u2019s maybe confusing for some businesses and patrons to have to figure out, is a bowl of hot chips the same as a substantial meal? But what I worry about more is the confusion of kids this coming Christmas, where they\u2019re used to their parents just being at home, and now, where are the parents?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022347ceff9dffca98b07d78e9c09d1ea85\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: They can stay at home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002271168790adfbf63b2df311e27abd5302\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, they can stay at home, my good friends say, but what about those parents that don\u2019t have control? I\u2019m not talking about the parents that have self-control. I\u2019m talking about the parents in South Auckland that don\u2019t have a lot of self-control because of their unfortunate addiction to alcohol.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EI want to reassure members of the public that the National Party values families. Indeed, one of our 10 values is strong families and caring communities, and notwithstanding this bill perhaps going through today, our party values strong families and caring communities. I don\u2019t commend this bill today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022 data-id=\u0022874025537b9af65a4a77224d866de166\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c6463d70604436695b4f49ebe8951ef\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022874025537b9af65a4a77224d866de166\u0022\u003EHon RACHEL BROOKING (Labour\u2014Dunedin) (17:23)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I just wish to take a short call in response to some of the issues that have been raised. I think it\u2019s important to acknowledge that this bill is about on-licence that are already able to operate on these days, so it\u2019s not that these days\u2014which, I acknowledge, are very important days\u2014are being opened up. That\u2019s the first point. People can already drink at the on-licence on these days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe change is that, at the moment, if people want to drink in the on-licence on these days, they have to have a meal, and that is what this change is about. It\u2019s about the meal, not about whether you can drink on these days or not. And, of course, when I say \u201Con-licence\u201D, that means somewhere where you go into a building and you buy your drink and you consume the drink in that venue. So it is different from an off-licence, and we have huge problems in this country with off-licences. It\u2019s not about the off-licences, where you go in and you buy your alcohol and you leave and you drink it somewhere else. So it is discrete in that manner. This is about meals, and whether or not a meal has to be served on these days. It\u2019s not about the days themselves, which are, of course, very important days.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to just comment now on two other issues. One was a contribution from my friend and neighbouring colleague Ingrid Leary, and she was talking about the need for a fulsome reform of our alcohol laws, and I agree with that point, as well. We do need that rather than lots of piecemeal conscience votes, but that needs to be done on a first-principles basis about alcohol harm, and there is some legislation floating about at the moment, and that legislation is not what we need. So that is a piece of work that needs to happen in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMy third point is I noticed that New Zealand First is opposing this legislation because it is the\u2014and this is to quote the Hon Mark Patterson\u2014\u201Cthe scourge of consumerism\u2014consumeralism\u201D\u2014I\u2019m struggling saying the word. So there\u2019s going to be too much people consuming too many things. I do wonder what their policy position then leads to. I think a lot of issues are being conflated here. I very much respect the position that these are important days, particularly\u2014well, they\u2019re important days to Christians and there is a lot of history in New Zealand around these days, and they are days that are important to me. But alcohol can already be sold on these days, so that consumption is already happening. There\u2019s no change to the consumption of alcohol. The change in consumption is not having to have a meal provided. That is the consumption change. So I respectfully disagree with that point. And, on that note, I\u2019ll sit down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022 data-id=\u002282f47f83e9628cdc85a6e6c360256577\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225f6c5b1a97f24773a8aaeb3a8e3b0e7b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002282f47f83e9628cdc85a6e6c360256577\u0022\u003EJAMIE ARBUCKLE (NZ First) (17:27)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI have listened today to the arguments for and against, and I think there\u2019s some things that people in this House have forgotten. I rise on the fact that, in reality, you could think Kiwis should enjoy a drink\u2014and I think that\u2019s the discussion that we\u2019ve heard from people that are for this piece of legislation. But it\u2019s the consequences of that happening on these days, and we will unleash far-reaching harms on our society. We\u2019ve heard through the Justice Committee that heard the submissions on this that there was really powerful testimony from our healthcare community. On busy holidays such as Christmas and Easter, hospital emergency departments (EDs) are overrun with alcohol-related cases. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe reason I rise after listening\u2014because I wasn\u2019t going to rise tonight and speak on this, because I have spoken in other readings\u2014but one survey found that one in eight ED admissions on Christmas Day was due to excess drinking. Why I say that is one in eight on Christmas Day\u2014and we have healthcare, we have people, I believe, that deserve a break on Christmas Day. They deserve not to have to be dealing with those types of issues. It\u2019s Easter, it is Christmas Day. They are special days. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI stood in this House in the second reading, and the religious side of this, the Christian values of that, I understand, and that\u2019s a really important part of not allowing alcohol sales on those days. For me, it was, I said, about the fabric, and it was about the importance of those Easter holidays. It was the importance of Christmas Day and protecting those days as the fabric of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard through speakers that we\u2019re talking about 3\u00BD days here where we just slow down a little bit and we can enjoy those days. Now, we\u2019re putting that extra strain on our police and on healthcare. I just think that\u2019s unacceptable. Like other speakers in this House, I actually feel saddened and disappointed that we\u2019re here today at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are, as I can hear across the House, those that have got the mentality that this has to happen. Unfortunately\u2014I\u2019m going to say this; I\u2019ve been thinking about whether I would say it or I wouldn\u2019t, but I will\u2014we\u2019ve almost got to the point that this bill has to be passed because of a rugby game. I love rugby, and it is our traditional sport, and I understand there\u2019s a brand-new stadium in Christchurch, but the rush and thought of having to get this through for a rugby game has actually disappointed me more.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have heard from the promoter of the bill that this isn\u2019t a major change, so following the first reading, where it was said that these are minor changes, the Amendment Paper on this opens up the shop trading hours. What I put to this House right now\u2014and people that may be thinking, \u201CHow do I vote?\u201D\u2014is that, on Boxing Day, there will be bars and restaurants open. They can now open to normal shop hours. Those shops, those restaurants, and those bars could be open to 3 a.m. on Christmas Day. They could be open to 3 a.m. on your Fridays or your Sundays. There is no restriction. To me, that is absolutely wrong, and the bill has been opened up so far that it goes away from looking at this to help businesses. It has actually opened up that so far that we have now got the health issues, but we have also got no restrictions, and no one is looking after those sacred days. On that point, I just think we\u2019ve gone down the wrong path.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce96e651e39bcbf6dfbcb57c4a2ae77c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce96e651e39bcbf6dfbcb57c4a2ae77c\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (17:32)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I rise to make a short contribution on this. I just note, for any of those watching who might wonder why we\u2019re focusing on this, this is a members\u2019 afternoon, and this is a member\u2019s bill, so I congratulate the member for having this pulled, as is tradition.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s a relatively simple one, and I\u2019ve certainly heard a variety of views from my electorate, but I\u2019m comfortable voting in support of it. The reason why I\u2019m comfortable voting in support of it is because this is a minor change which affects those on-licences that can already sell alcohol on these days. It just changes quite a minor thing, which is that, unlike every other day of the year, they don\u2019t have to sell a substantial meal with the alcohol; on these days, they do. I think this is just a bit of a regulatory thing that\u2019s been in place for a long time and hasn\u2019t really been looked at. I don\u2019t see a good reason for it. It doesn\u2019t change the alcohol consumption. It doesn\u2019t change the hours or times. My understanding is that it is being sold on these particular days, so I\u2019m comfortable supporting it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do note that reasonable minds can disagree on this, and certainly we hear that in this House. I do acknowledge the longstanding history and importance of these days, which are also important to me. It does not stop anyone, and I don\u2019t think it would result in behaviour changes, because these are on-licensed premises that are already opening. It is not allowing additional ones to open. Like I said, the alcohol can already be sold from these on-licences on these particular days already, so it\u2019s pretty simple, from my perspective. Although I note that there are some strong feelings about this, I do think that this is one of those things that I can comfortably support. With that, I will be voting in support of this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u002221ffa82077b3984b8f83bc4a6efea0fe\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002221ffa82077b3984b8f83bc4a6efea0fe\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT) (17:34)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise in support of this piece of legislation. I also want to acknowledge the Hon Kieran McAnulty for having his bill drawn. I think it\u2019s like a 1.6 percent or something chance of getting a member\u2019s bill drawn from the tin, and so congratulations on that. I also want to acknowledge my colleague Cameron Luxton for his efforts in liberalising this part of our liquor laws that we think has been inconsistent and not sensible for quite some time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wasn\u2019t going to take a call, but I thought that I will, just based on some of the conversations that we\u2019re having. The great thing about conscience votes is that we all kind of break rank a little bit from what our party normally may think on an issue. It means that we can actually discuss them openly. I really do want to acknowledge all of the members and all of their views, because I do know that there are quite a lot of different views on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor me personally, I think there are a couple of things. For these premises that are already open, particularly pubs and restaurants at the moment, it is just absolutely ridiculous that they have to decide what a decent meal is in order to serve alcohol with it. I know that Jamie Arbuckle mentioned that this is going to go into shop trading hours. These bars will be able to stay open all kinds of hours. It doesn\u2019t actually affect their normal trading hours, and we are not changing the Shop Trading Hours Act. I get where that concern may land, but this piece of legislation doesn\u2019t actually do that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETalking about some of the alcohol harm, my colleague Rima Nakhle gave a very powerful speech about thinking about children and those that are exposed to alcohol harm and addiction harm. I know, first hand, my mum grew up in a family where her father was an alcoholic, and she had all kinds of issues that came with that. One of the key things she learnt was that no matter what, when you\u2019ve got an addiction, you will find a way in order to get your hit. That doesn\u2019t change just because our trading hours have changed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s completely discredited that people are going to go out and get drunk in bars and restaurants on particular days, like our days of, say, Easter and things like that as opposed to getting drunk at home. What we know has actually been happening is those that do want to, those that might have an addiction, for example, they tend to stockpile, they tend to go harder. I know that Jamie also talked about the hospitalisations. Well, that is happening right now without the safety of our bars and our restaurants. I know our licensed premises have to adhere to really strict rules when it comes to intoxication. One of the safest places you could probably have a few beverages in is a licensed premise like one of our pubs, one of our restaurants. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhile I do appreciate that there are concerns about alcohol harm, I do think that keeping it in the on-licences is actually a really smart first step. I\u2019d like to see it actually go a bit further to the off-licences, as you\u2019ll probably hear from quite a few of the ACT members, but I do think this part in the bill is sensible and it\u2019s a good change to be making.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt would be remiss of me to not discuss Christchurch and what is happening. I know a few members have said that these amendments have just been passed in a hurry to open up a stadium for the sake of a football match. That is actually not true. I think there has been more interest from the public and the media because of this anomaly that we have found ourselves in, but I do think that this would happen anyway. Whether it happens right now\u2014it was going to happen anyway, and it\u2019s just standard process. But because it is happening, I can\u2019t wait for Christchurch to see the punters coming in. I hope our bars and restaurants\u2014actually, all of our shops\u2014do really well on that weekend, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258db67ed5fda9bfdc01318e3510bfa9b\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I take the next speaker, I\u2019ve had some queries about how long, if we go to a personal vote, it is likely to take. It will probably be about 20 minutes, and we will be voting before dinner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u0022856be0e730b9671ac7c5993b26b91fda\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022856be0e730b9671ac7c5993b26b91fda\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui) (17:39)\u003C/span\u003E: Thanks, Mr Speaker. I won\u2019t take my full call. I spoke in the second reading, and my position remains the same as I shared in that second reading speech. However, there have been a few comments that have been made in this third reading that I thought needed to be put on record in terms of the way we could address some of the challenges that have been raised without changing the law and without taking a step on a slope towards these days ultimately ending up being free rein. I don\u2019t have any issue with the changes to Anzac morning, as I expressed in the second reading, but there\u2019s a lot that\u2019s been said in this House this evening about this idea of a substantial meal. Well, we could clarify that through regulation. We could make it clear that a burger is a burger and a salad with a glass of champagne is OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EWe could make clear that a big bowl of chips with bacon and cheese on it is a meal if you\u2019re having a beer with it. The idea that the only way to solve this problem is to remove the law\u2014to take a step on that slope towards removing the importance of these days in New Zealand\u2019s history and in its culture\u2014is in itself absurd. So rather than continue to make that argument and share again the points made in the second reading, I just wanted to put on record that the idea that the only way to solve this problem is to remove this piece of legislation, in my humble opinion, is not accurate nor correct. Therefore, I do not commend this to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u002210e29a0bdcfe7814ce10524502aad10b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210e29a0bdcfe7814ce10524502aad10b\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT) (17:40)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It gives me pleasure to rise and have a speech in this debate on the Sale and Supply of Alcohol (Sales on Anzac Day Morning, Good Friday, Easter Sunday, and Christmas Day) Amendment Bill. I\u2019m very privileged to be able to speak again. I actually think I\u2019ve spoken in all three stages of this bill. I want to again acknowledge Mr McAnulty. It\u2019s great that he got this bill to the House. Obviously, initially, we had some disappointment, because we wanted to kind of make reforms in other areas related to this. But, look, we were very happy to come on board and actually get something done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is really a very practical bill. Again, Mr McAnulty calibrated it so it could get support across the House. I really do want to acknowledge that, because he is actually about getting something done, which I think is great\u2014just as we would be in ACT. This is a very sensible change. I\u2019ve had the opportunity to listen to some of the contributions while I\u2019ve been up in my office. It\u2019s been a very respectful debate\u2014people putting forward their different reasons for or against voting for the bill. But this does really address an issue\u2014one of inconsistency. Again, as we\u2019ve already heard, we had places opening on these days but having to serve what was called \u201Csubstantial meals\u201D. There was a lot of discussion and submissions at select committee about what constituted a substantial meal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut this bill, if passed today, will give a lot more options for premises already with on-licences to continue to operate as they would on every other day of the year, except what is currently the protected days. So that\u2019s very exciting. It\u2019s going to make things a lot clearer, both for the public, but also for businesses and operators. We\u2019ve obviously also had agreement across the House to make a small amendment to make sure it\u2019s very clear around trading hours, and so I think that was great. Again, Cameron Luxton worked with people to get that across, and so that was excellent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut I reflect on it in two ways. One is, of course, I\u2019m a member of ACT, so we always want to increase people\u2019s freedom. What that means to us is that\u2019s freedom for people to make their own decisions and their own choices to decide whether they want to go out to an establishment to have a drink with their friends and family or not. We\u2019re not forcing people to do anything. Again, that\u2019s very much how we think about things in ACT. We\u2019re not forcing people to do anything but we\u2019re allowing them choice and responsibility to do it. So that\u2019s very exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut the other thing I think about is from where I live down south. I\u2019m lucky to live in Queenstown\u2014one of the premier tourist destinations of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccbd1494926a4777484a9d1c144c03d8\u0022\u003EHon James Meager\u003C/span\u003E: One of.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228b4cdfeee27a10ea52a3dcd43a361e49\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, yes, Mr Meager is yelling out behind. I know Timaru is very important, Mr Meager, but Queenstown is regarded as one of the premier tourist destinations of New Zealand. Of course, we have a lot of tourists, and they come all times of the year, but including Easter and Christmas Day and Anzac Day. Again, this will just make the establishments in places like Queenstown but also W\u0101naka, Tauranga, wherever you are in the country that are catering for overseas visitors, it will make it much easier to cater for those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing which I\u2019ve heard referenced is about, obviously, the Christchurch stadium. I think, again, this is a sensible change for actually boosting events and things that we actually want to encourage in our cities. Again, this isn\u2019t being done just because of the Christchurch stadium, but, look, if the timing happens to fit, let\u2019s actually get this done so we can celebrate the wonderful stadium in Christchurch, which I, hopefully, look forward to attending sometime in the future, and giving them the opportunity this Easter to actually operate in a way that\u2019s going to cater for the guests.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, look, I\u2019m very happy to unite with other people across the House in favour of this. It really is increasing people\u2019s freedom in New Zealand, and that\u2019s the reason I\u2019ll be supporting it and also other ACT MPs will be supporting it. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a00de0346df5be4f7c9a3c383648ef9\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ve determined that the subject of this vote will be treated as a conscience issue. In this case, I know there are members who will want a personal vote and I am prepared to accept one. 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(P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003ESalesa (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003ESimmonds (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003ESosene\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003ESwarbrick (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003ETuiono (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EUffindell (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003Evan de Molen\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWade-Brown (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWaititi (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWalters (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWhite\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWilliams\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWillis S (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n            \u003Ctr\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EWilson\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n              \u003Ctd\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022VoteText\u0022\u003EXu-Nan (P)\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/td\u003E\n            \u003C/tr\u003E\n          \u003C/table\u003E\n        \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003C/div\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000659\u0022 class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000660\u0022 class=\u0022HpsDivision\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e49308c8317b9373c38dc85e41d58a7f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Unlock the doors. The time has come for me to leave the Chair for the dinner break. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterItalicsCentred\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 6.03 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e1e4d9d48eebf1e9720d2d12cc01f7f6\u0022\u003ECopyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022f76625a59f8dc5e89a801d14cbd28bbb\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022499726c12286f67f2d9f5be89adcf646\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022499726c12286f67f2d9f5be89adcf646\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (19:30)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt its essence, this bill is about empowering artists to create and do what artists all over the world do every day, without the threat of being sued because of an archaic law. Art is a powerful tool for social and political change. There\u2019s a lot going on in the world right now, and so we must lean in to art to help us make sense of the world. Oh, what a grey world it would be without our artists. Thank you to all the artists, academics, and politicians who have championed this bill to finally make it to Parliament. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI mihi to former MPs who have worked to modernise this law, like in 2011, when Green Party MP Gareth Hughes first put this bill in the biscuit tin. More recently, in 2018, National MP Simeon Brown introduced his own bill, seeking to introduce a similar parody and satire amendment within the pre-existing fair dealing exception for criticism and review. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Copyright Act 1994 to clarify that a fair dealing within a work does not constitute an infringement of the copyright of the work if it is for the use of parody or satire. This amendment follows the common-sense approach taken by Australia\u2019s Copyright Act 1968, section 41A, which explicitly recognises that parody and satire are legitimate exceptions to copyright infringement. Let me make it crystal clear: this bill does not provide a free pass to use copyrighted material without considering originals, nor does it override protections for M\u0101ori cultural work. Instead, it brings clarity to the law, ensuring that fair dealing applies to those who use existing works in a transformative and critical manner. This bill clarifies what fair use means: the right to critique and create in ways that strengthen our democracy and contribute to public discourse. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParody and satire sits at the cornerstone of any democracy. It holds power to account, challenges social norms, expresses views, and encourages creativity, prompting us to reflect on the world around us. Satire and parody is the tool that so many of our beloved artists and commentators have used to highlight these very things, encouraging discussion and its use. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECurrently, it\u2019s hard to quantify what art hasn\u2019t been created or shared due to the threat of costly legal bills and repercussions posed by the current law. Over the past year, I have met with artists, comedians, academics, digital creatives, and legal experts, and the message has been clear: this change is long overdue. We have wide support across the arts and legal sectors, and a special thankyou goes to meme creators like \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Whakataki Times\u003C/span\u003E, Cindy With Sign, Jordan Rivers, and Political Editing 2.0; satirists like Christchurch\u2019s Andrew Gunn; comedians and artists like Kura Forrester, Courtney Dawson, Keisha Castle-Hughes, Joe Daymond, and Thomas Sainsbury, who have used satire to define their art and create creative voices in Aotearoa; and academics like Professor Graeme Austin, who have provided their insights on the subject. Thank you to all of you\u2014thank you. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMany have spoken about the effect of the current legal uncertainty, where fear of litigation has stifled creative expression. From small-scale content creators to established satirists, there is widespread support for a more modern and balanced copyright framework. This bill responds to that call, ensuring that New Zealand\u2019s creative community can continue to challenge through their art and make us laugh. You only need to scroll through Instagram to see the success of our comedians and content creators on the world stage, proving exactly why we need to even the playing field. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is about balance: balancing the rights of copyright holders with the fundamental freedom of expression that is essential in a democratic society. It is a small but important step in modernising New Zealand\u2019s copyright framework. The UK, Canada, France, and Belgium already have these laws in place, showing why it\u2019s time for us to make this move\u2014and, you know, Australia has it too, and you know that we hate trailing behind the Aussies. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOur copyright laws, which were created three decades ago, do not reflect the changes since then in our media landscape. Emerging artists, in particular, have described the financial and emotional toll of navigating a legal grey area. In an age where digital content spreads rapidly, the law must be clear, accessible, and fair to our artists, the content they make, and its reflections on our society. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill would be in alignment with article 2 of Te Tiriti o Waitangi, specifically around tino rangatiratanga and mana motuhake, to help promote and advance M\u0101ori storytelling and perspectives. M\u0101ori have a long tradition of using satire as a means of social commentary. From \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Ewaiata ngahau\u003C/span\u003E to p\u016Br\u0101kau and whaik\u014Drero, the delivery of pointed but light-hearted banter is felt on the paepae, whether you understand te reo M\u0101ori or not. Teanau Tuiono\u2019s dad jokes hit just the same in te reo M\u0101ori. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori artists and commentators often face significant financial and institutional barriers in their creative endeavours. By clarifying that parody and satire are legitimate forms of expression under copyright law, the bill provides greater access and equity for M\u0101ori creatives to share their perspectives without the burden of prohibib\u2014prohibitive\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022643f3737cdd26de4b0c3e61d63abb1ad\u0022\u003EHon Member: \u003C/span\u003EYeah, I think we\u2019ve got it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b07e80ed72a28037120076f33d08b749\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014legal constraints. I think we\u2019ve got it\u2014hey, there\u2019s a meme idea, everyone! It is also important that we uphold protection for M\u0101ori intellectual and cultural property.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill offers an opportunity to reinforce protections and include the Wai 262 recommendations through the select committee process, ensuring that tikanga M\u0101ori remains central to how we approach copyright and artistic expression in Aotearoa. We encourage submissions and conversations to ensure we\u2019re achieving this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Green Party bill is a narrow, carefully considered change to the Copyright Act 1994. It provides certainty for our creative sector, aligns us with international best practices, and strengthens the foundational principles of democracy and freedom of expression. Now I will quote Jeff Bromski: \u201CArt has always been a powerful tool for social and political change. From the earliest cave paintings to contemporary Street Art, artists have used their work to express their views on society and the world around them. Typically created in response to social or political issues, protest art can take many forms, including paintings, sculptures, murals, posters, and street art.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI urge the House to support this bill so we can move it to the select committee, where we can hear submissions and refine it further to ensure our laws are fit for purpose and reflect our society. New Zealand is a modern society, and we need our laws to reflect that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor all our artists out there: thank you for making the world a brighter place, thank you for continuing to create art to get us through tough times and to help us shape the conversations around us. I\u2019d love you to send me your memes. Now, I might not understand them, but I promise I\u2019ll try. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022 data-id=\u002210a4ea4fa08dabda32649bef58ab96c8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002210a4ea4fa08dabda32649bef58ab96c8\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula) (19:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223728cfe47af20a7ce6cc8c5584d22929\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b97c7984e4c76c22c226a2eb4efe72ab\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a pleasure to stand and represent National on the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill in this first reading. National will be supporting this to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b3ebd3622825666cb4403ce7c9aec80\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Yay! Good stuff.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eba3a4ac439b5b8ae248dae41033d3e1\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, it\u2019s great. This is the second time I\u2019ve got to be the person from National who gives the good news. I did think about drawing it out, but I thought that\u2019s a bit\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f3a4c03a2dda1f5eaecd6f49fcac26a\u0022\u003EHon Jan Tinetti\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, mean!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022846b6ef55aa4de0a52df144cd71d0ca4\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. But I won\u2019t. I won\u2019t hold you in suspense.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was only one way that National could go with this because this is a bill about freedom of speech. Also, previously, the speaker Kahurangi Carter mentioned that the Hon Simeon Brown had a very similar bill in the ballot, previously; it was, I believe, drawn and voted down. This is something that goes to the fundamental values of our party. Freedom of expression is an absolute requirement for democracy in our country\u2014for democracies everywhere.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a very small bill. It does make one small amendment to the Copyright Act 1994, by inserting new section 42A, which allows those \u201Cfair use\u201D, copyrighted materials to be used for the purpose of parody and satire. That exempts them from having an infringement. So that will, hopefully, take away any chilling effect that not having that provision under the law may have held. Now, it\u2019s a little bit hard to prove that because there haven\u2019t been any cases brought to trial about this in New Zealand; however, there are international cases where these kinds of things have come to the fore and highlighted the issues where there are no exemptions. However, New Zealand is just coming into line with most other countries that we like to compare ourselves with, like Australia, the UK, and many countries in the EU. Like you say, in Australia, their Copyright Act was from 1968. That shows you just how far we are behind. We\u2019re just bringing ourselves into the 20\u003Csup\u003Eth\u003C/sup\u003E century\u2014let alone anything else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn this day and age, how fast things can be transmitted through electronic means over the internet is completely outside of what anything would have been imagined when our laws were first being drafted\u2014although, the Copyright Act does allow for some software and other digital products to be protected, in some ways. So we already have some provision, but it didn\u2019t go far enough to see the extent of what the internet has become.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen we think about what satire is and what parody is, we often think of them almost as the same thing together, but they actually are two quite distinct things. Parody is where it\u2019s making fun of the original work in some way, or the original statement, or using that original statement or artwork to highlight something. One example of a visual parody that\u2019s often used is of the very famous photo of The Beatles walking across the crossing, and people often put themselves into the same situation, or they might then dress up in funny clothes or in cosplay, even, and be crossing a crossing. That has enough of the reference to the original photograph that people understand what the reference is. That\u2019s parody.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESatire is actually using a situation or a real-life event or an artwork or a work to highlight a social issue or a political point or just to make fun of people. A good example of satire is some television shows that we all may have watched\u2014especially political geeks who like things like \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EVeep\u003C/span\u003E or\u2014you\u2019ve never heard of it, Madam Speaker? You should watch it; you would love it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002236788bc26a744b437b2d46e51bea55ca\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll take a note.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227bc34164788fcc43bbd7c4e3913bcb19\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s one for the watchlist. Or one of my favourites is \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EUtopia\u003C/span\u003E. Maybe one that you would know, Madam Speaker, is \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EMadam Assistant Speaker pulls a face, resulting in laughter from members\u003C/span\u003E.]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252191ed26fc404367c6acebae9ad8282\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Actually, I do know it; I\u2019ve actually got the boxset!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229e31e5c3201913cbb64ffbbda4a1f315\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! That\u2019s all right, Madam Speaker. I thought I was sailing close with that one!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are lots of examples, and people can understand what they\u2019re saying. It\u2019s interesting with things like some of those satire programmes that we watch, many of us will get the impression that \u201CGosh, we could almost be watching a documentary. This is so close to the reality of what we are living and things that we\u2019re experiencing.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn this day and age, where we have AI-derived material, we\u2019ve got deepfakes of people making comments, of politicians making statements, even. It becomes quite difficult because we have some real-world politicians making statements at the moment that it\u2019s hard to believe is actually truly what they\u2019re saying. For example, some of us might struggle to know, at times, whether the President of the United States has actually said something, or if somebody has created a deepfake and put this out as a satirical moment, because it\u2019s so hard, often, to believe what we\u2019re seeing on TV. This is one of the issues that, I think, will come up in select committee, that we will drill down quite hard into, to discover what the boundaries are around this and what some of the danger areas are that might come up where there\u2019s quite a broad interpretation of what both parody and satire are. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really important to make sure that we keep the intellectual property rights of the artist and original whakapapa that things come from protected. It is absolutely fundamental to the continuation of art that the original artists have the ability to have some control over their work. This is not a means by which somebody can say, \u201COh, well, it\u2019s just parody.\u201D, but that they\u2019re clearly using artistic material as, say, for a basis of an advertisement or something that they\u2019re going to gain commercial benefit from. Absolutely, that would be a different test under the law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis particular provision, while it\u2019s still quite narrow, would still involve quite a bit of interpretation. I think we\u2019re going to have a good time at the select committee really thrashing this one out. I look forward to all of the submissions that, I\u2019m sure, we\u2019ll get on this. I hope that this is going to be one of those really entertaining and informative debates that we have. I do hope that people will come forward and bring their perspectives on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor me, the most important thing is that we are opening up and maintaining ways of having critique and debate that is a really constructive and informative part of our democracy. Everything that we can do to strengthen our democracy, I think, is important for our Parliament to take on. Recently, we had a forum on, basically, democratic resilience across the world\u2014and in New Zealand, in particular\u2014that was held here in Parliament. I think that was a good start to how this Parliament can work to strengthen our own democracy. Having bills like this supported across the House\u2014or at least widely supported across the House\u2014I think, is a good thing for us to be able to debate it. It also shows that where things are important for our democracy, where they make sense\u2014nobody\u2019s really got a mortgage on good ideas here\u2014we should all support those that are good ideas, not because of what colour of party the person comes from. Members\u2019 days give us an opportunity to really do that: to explore these ideas and to be able to debate them on their merits.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs the deputy chair of the Economic Development, Science and Innovation (EDSI) Committee\u2014which I\u2019ve got to hope that maybe this is coming to? No? Oh.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022983933bd7a0eff3b3474faec7ee06f57\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a15d1beeaa467c2ae36df390b8d783c9\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: No? Oh. OK, well, that\u2019s a shame.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222154da3fa7bb4f305ebdfcab8d711279\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Where\u2019s it going?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226eb2ddcd4af1700fc98a758d2e724bbf\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: I thought it might be coming to us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e4fe13b5ad3d082bc1e9dc250ba61963\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we can vote for it. Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b6326b703a7dbf283aaf31697395e130\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we can still vote for it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022732d41534875663f5d2a5ad3e20e6226\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: Send it to EDSI. They\u2019re not doing anything.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224dcaf1ca870a6f6288ac3c964ce06e11\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, exactly. Anyway, this is a bill that I look forward to seeing the process as it goes through the House and through the committee. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u0022eca493980fb9e0fbc46eff5da5db3974\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eca493980fb9e0fbc46eff5da5db3974\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa) (19:51)\u003C/span\u003E: Good on that member for what I\u2019m sure will be a debate about this bill which is light-hearted and which acknowledges that all of us have an interest, as politicians, to see a thriving public discourse that includes taking the mickey out of us. It\u2019s in our DNA; part of the Kiwi approach to our politics is that we can have a bit of a laugh and enjoy a robust debate as well as, at times, taking the mickey out of politicians as a form of legitimate discourse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt will be very surprising to most New Zealanders to realise that there is not a carve-out in our law for that kind of free-spirited debate already. We should have been there many decades ago, but here we are trying to find a way forward on this in a member\u2019s bill. I congratulate Kahurangi Carter for having this drawn and for taking it through. Well done to you. I know behind the scenes you have done a lot of work to ensure that there is a level of cross-partisan consensus on this. That is the best of us when we can get together and make sure that we can find a way forward that everyone can agree on. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, when I think about what I would like to see more of, because of this bill, do you remember when I was growing up in the Helen Clark years\u2014and I thought Helen Clark was really my auntie for quite a long time\u2014that we would have these ads on ZM and mainstream radio of Helen Clark singing to an Eminem song and later John Key doing the same? Satire was a real part of the discourse of my generation growing up with politics in our everyday lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261d6a1971dea74276dad4cd8f41c234d\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: We don\u2019t do Eminem on this side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002201f738f244724e5b8da066dba7a6a526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002267f54ec337b95765bd647778d64a85ab\u0022\u003EDr Tracey McLellan\u003C/span\u003E: They don\u2019t talk about Eminem.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002294953f26eeda20f2bfb4a5bc38278951\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS\u003C/span\u003E: You were listening to\u2014well, let\u2019s talk about Eminem. Sorry, sorry, sorry, sorry\u2014legitimate discourse; legitimate discourse. But part of growing up in New Zealand and engaging with politics was about satire; was about being able to laugh at our leaders Helen Clark and John Key. Now, for instance, there is a play about Helen Clark on\u2014the Auckland Theatre Company is running \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHelen Clark in Six Outfits\u003C/span\u003E, which will also be funny and poignant. But being able to have that as part of our culture is absolutely essential to a thriving political discourse. It\u2019s not all about the cost of living\u2014although most of it\u2019s about cost of living, isn\u2019t it? Housing, health, jobs, got it? But also it\u2019s about seeing politicians as people; seeing people who are part of our communities who we can laugh with and at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThis is a bill which helps that along. Good on the member for bringing it, and I hope we pass it into law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u002274a7922a1b66395975ed703e68cb8583\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274a7922a1b66395975ed703e68cb8583\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT) (19:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m glad you can remember who I am. No\u2014maybe that\u2019s a bit of a parody. Look, I rise on behalf of ACT. I consider myself probably the most famous arts, culture, and heritage spokesperson in the New Zealand Parliament. But I also have some background in intellectual property and, of course, I probably am one of Parliament\u2019s greatest free speech advocates. I want to congratulate Kahurangi Carter on having her bill drawn from the ballot. It\u2019s great. It\u2019s very exciting, isn\u2019t it? I know I\u2019ve had one of my own bills drawn\u2014it\u2019s very exciting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI can indicate, straight up, ACT will be supporting this through the first reading because we actually do believe in free speech. If you hadn\u2019t had this bill in the ballot, it\u2019s quite possible an ACT MP would have, so I do want to congratulate you on getting it drawn. I think it\u2019s going to be a really interesting discussion because, as some of the other speakers have talked about, there are some legal issues to kind of tease out. How far does the fair dealings go? What is parody and satire? I think it\u2019s going to be really interesting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m a bit sad it\u2019s not coming to the great Justice Committee, but it is coming to the Social Services and Community Committee. My colleague Laura McClure is on there and I think she\u2019s going to really enjoy being a part of the select committee discussing this. Again, members will know Laura has her own interest in, obviously, technology\u2014in fact, we\u2019ve heard already about deepfakes. Again, she\u2019s very interested in these issues. As Kahurangi Carter said, we have had a lot of changes in our media landscape and what technology can and can\u2019t do, and what it can deliver.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also think it\u2019s quite fun that it\u2019s April Fool\u2019s Day when we\u2019re actually talking about this bill\u2014I just thought of that as I sitting here. I haven\u2019t actually checked out every political party\u2019s, but I\u2019m sure every political party had a little gag before lunchtime today. Maybe later on, I\u2019ll be looking around to see\u2014oh, the Labour Party didn\u2019t? Well, you had better go and check out ACT\u2019s gag about giving\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002211e9e1f818754d97b60bba4b18e5dc03\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f942110e50babe03bcfbd4d169545207\u0022\u003EHon Mark Patterson\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s hard to tell with your stuff, Todd.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002245238732df1afff3f78910a02b3c605b\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: You\u2019ll have to yell louder\u2014giving cows the vote. You\u2019d be all in favour of giving cows the vote down there, Mr Patterson, wouldn\u2019t you?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EBut I did think that\u2019s quite fun about it being April Fool\u2019s Day. Maybe \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Office\u003C/span\u003E, Madam Speaker, is something you\u2019d be more familiar with? \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u2014you\u2019re way too young to have watched \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272d5f94ba6f244fbaf1e4b86c4b03de7\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Stephenson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287f750a51bca191e170e354d796e7458\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON\u003C/span\u003E: But, I mean, again, everyone will be familiar with \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Office\u003C/span\u003E\u2014you\u2019ve got the UK and the US versions, which are a great kind of parody of office life. I think this is going to be a really interesting discussion to have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would also note that what we like about this bill is it is narrow and is going to do something to actually protect free speech and artists\u2019 rights as they are undertaking their work, which is great. But I think we also all need to think about what we can do to do other protections in relation to free speech. In fact, today we\u2019ve had what I would call quite an outrageous decision by the Broadcasting Standards Authority to actually try and police the internet. Again, that\u2019s quite a bit of overreach there and, again, it fits in where we\u2019re looking whether some of our laws and our bodies are now fit for purpose in this new age. I do think we just need to be very careful, but I think this is great the way this bill is constructed because it\u2019s going through something very specific. The select committee will be able to get some really great submissions on what this is actually going to mean for people in the community, and then they can make sure that actually how the law is drafted is fit for purpose. I think it\u2019s going to be really interesting to talk around the issues of fair dealings and \u201Cfair use\u201D\u2014what that looks like.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs Kahurangi Carter so eloquently outlined in her opening, we\u2019re wanting to protect artists\u2019 rights here, but we\u2019ve also got to think about other copyright implications. But I think they can all be ably managed by the very capable Social Services and Community Committee. ACT looks forward to supporting this through its first reading, hopefully\u2014I think we\u2019re almost there, actually, getting it to the select committee already, but I do commend this to the House. Congratulations again, Kahurangi Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022 data-id=\u002237156845f92f2deabc61a84f5e9587f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022d92a09db28c44070bbfdcc9f0e6f3cca\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002237156845f92f2deabc61a84f5e9587f3\u0022\u003EJENNY MARCROFT (NZ First) (19:58)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege always to stand on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to a bill and in particular a member\u2019s bill. I\u2019d just like to congratulate Kahurangi Carter for having her bill for the first time in the House this evening. It\u2019s been a bit of a joke getting it to the House because it\u2019s been on the Order Paper and back off and on and on. It has taken a bit of time, so it\u2019s great that we\u2019re here this evening to speak to the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECopyright applies automatically when something\u2019s published or created. It\u2019s a form of intellectual property right. It gives the person who creates that original work exclusive rights. Copyright balances the right of the authors and creators to choose how they want their creations to be used, and also it balances that with society\u2019s interest in allowing people access to use those works of intellectual creative endeavour. The basic premise of copyright law is that the creator of those works has the right to decide how their work will be used. I think that\u2019s a really important concept to be held at top of mind through the course of the discussion if, in fact, this bill goes to select committee\u2014which it appears to be doing so based on the indications of support from across the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill will introduce a copyright infringement exception for fair dealing with literary, artistic, dramatic, and musical works for the purposes of parody or satire. The question I have to ask, though, is: what is the problem that we\u2019re trying to solve here? There have been no specific guiding court cases in New Zealand that have established a clear precedent or defence for copyright infringement based on parody or satire. Legal experts, actually, have noted there is a distinct lack of litigation in this area.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EQuickly looking at what is satire, it\u2019s the art of making someone or something look ridiculous. It raises laughter in order to embarrass, humble, or discredit its targets. In fact, Arena Williams said that taking the mickey out of politicians is part of our social discourse; it\u2019s been going on for years. In fact, it was even recently with us last year with a billboard that appeared in Wellington saying \u201CDefund da Police\u201D. Actually, the Green Party complained to the billboard company, asserting copyright breaches\u2014hmm, curious. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn terms of satire, Kiwis are very familiar with satire on TV: Fred Dagg\u2019s shows, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EA Week of It\u003C/span\u003E from the 1970s and 1980s, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EEating Media Lunch,\u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Ebro\u2019Town\u003C/span\u003E, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWellington Paranormal,\u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003E7 Days\u003C/span\u003E. Now, one that actually challenges social norms as satire, as the member in charge of the bill, Kahurangi Carter, has stated in her opening address, I all recommend you go and look at \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ESeven Periods with Mr Gormsby\u003C/span\u003E. That absolutely addresses the social norms. It\u2019s actually doing a bit of a re-tread at the moment on YouTube. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParody, on the other hand, copies the original artwork. It transforms it through creative processes to create something brand new. Radio, of which I was a member for 30 years in my broadcasting career, uses parody quite a lot. Radio Hauraki was one of the proponents of radio or music parody\u2014parody songs. Back in the 1980s, there was a song which featured in the top of the charts for many, many years, 27 weeks. It was called \u201CThe Bridge\u201D. The pirates on Radio Hauraki turned it into a parody song called \u201CThe Fridge\u201D. It was all about electrical appliance love. That song, the parody of that, there was no court case. There was no legal component. They weren\u2019t attacked for the parody of that. In fact, there\u2019s been a whole bunch of parody songs across the years: \u201CRugby, Racing and Beer\u201D, \u201CPuha and Pakeha\u201D, \u201CStole My Car\u201D, a parody song based on that very popular hit song, \u201CHow Bizarre\u201D. Any court cases about parodies? No, not one. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe only other thing I\u2019d like to quickly mention is that this bill does not address moral rights. It\u2019s silent on moral rights. How will moral rights be assessed? They are personal, unassignable rights which vest in the author of the work the right of attribution to be identified as the creator, the right of integrity to object to derogatory treatment or alteration of the original work, the right against false attribution\u2014to not have a work falsely attributed to them. They are primarily focused on protecting the creator\u2019s personal and reputational connection to their creation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First, for these reasons of moral rights not being identified in this piece of legislation, does not support this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ca431dbffaa67f465c6fddd09c15ae1\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Before I take the next call, I just have to put the question, which is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6cc258e6d580507699b1739bfc3b793\u0022\u003EHana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 ra koe, e te P\u012Bka.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002205403bc2b64e04ad7e3aac92a1216b5d\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Can I just remind the member of the dress code for the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022 data-id=\u002266e80e310eaef7867b19f0dbdd5e8129\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022420f72e8bcc84c869a366ff712af8e49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002266e80e310eaef7867b19f0dbdd5e8129\u0022\u003EHANA-RAWHITI MAIPI-CLARKE (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014Hauraki-Waikato) (20:03)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe e te P\u012Bka, otir\u0101 t\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 t\u0101tou e te Whare. E t\u016B ana ahau ki te waha i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero m\u0101 Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i te p\u014D nei, i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire n\u0101 Te P\u0101ti K\u0101k\u0101riki, otir\u0101 te mema o Kahurangi Carter. Ng\u0101 mihi nui ki a koe m\u014D te kawe mai i t\u014D pire ki t\u0113nei Whare.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThank you, Mr Speaker; indeed, greetings to us all in the House. I stand to give voice to the M\u0101ori Party\u2019s comments this evening regarding this particular bill from the Green Party; indeed, from the member Kahurangi Carter. Many thanks to you for bringing your bill to this House.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori tonight to talk to the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill. This bill amends the Copyright Act 1994 to provide the fair dealing of work that does not infringe copyright if the purpose is for parody or satire. This amendment allows for a much wider interpretation of current copyright laws in favour of the public wishing to use copyright works through parody or satire to promote an issue freely. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EParody and satire are among the oldest forms of criticism and play an important role on making light of an issue members of the public may feel strongly about. This bill would protect artists from being sued by large companies if they use copyrighted works for parody or satire purposes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWithin our policy platform, when we look at Mana \u014Crite, we support this bill on the side of small creators, regular people rather than big companies. Mana Mokopuna supports the importance that our mokopuna are able to express themselves freely without the fear of being sued. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EKo \u0113tehi o \u0101 m\u0101tou nawe, \u0113tehi o \u0101 m\u0101tou \u0101wangawanga ki t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ESome of our issues, some of our concerns regarding this particular bill\u003C/span\u003E]\u2014some of the concerns we do share, though, is that we must be mindful of the relationship between this parody and satire expectation and when we look at the Wai claims, such as Wai 262 and the protection of taonga. We do live in a future and world of artificial intelligence, and I also just want to say, along these lines, supporting the bill from Laura McClure of deepfakes is also the opportunity that we can bring to the House when we have members\u2019 days like this and members\u2019 bills, to see how we can make changes to laws or bring in bills like this one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo within the Wai 262 claim, just the protection of taonga and cultural appropriation\u2014that\u2019s what we\u2019ll hear from the select committee. Then, also, I\u2019m relieved and excited to hear that the National Party and ACT Party are supporting this member\u2019s bill. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 r\u0101 koe Kahurangi m\u014D \u014D mahi.\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThank you, Kahurangi, for your work.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, the protection of artists and, also, freedom of speech. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EI runga i t\u0113n\u0101, e tautoko ana a Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori i t\u0113nei o ng\u0101 pire ka kawea mai ki roto i t\u0113nei Whare P\u0101remata i t\u0113nei p\u014D. T\u0113n\u0101 koutou.\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWith that, the M\u0101ori Party supports this particular bill that has been brought before this House of Parliament tonight. Thank you, all.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022 data-id=\u00227e0261893cc95a72a26154a5291f8942\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e0261893cc95a72a26154a5291f8942\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East) (20:06)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to stand and take a call on this Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill. I would like to add to the congratulations in the House tonight to the member Kahurangi Carter for bringing this bill into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, some of us grew up, not with \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E, but with \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EMcPhail \u0026amp; Gadsby\u003C/span\u003E. In that era, the creation of parody content was significantly different and a lot harder\u2014took a lot longer than it does today for people to make memes or to make parody or satire content. I, myself, was very lucky to work in an industry where we made a lot of parody and satire content on a show called \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EWhat Now\u003C/span\u003E, and I wanted to acknowledge also Andrew Gunn, who skirted a very fine line around what you could get away with in the world of parody and satire, and did it masterfully. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think what we all know is that the world has changed significantly since 1994 when the current Act was drafted. This amendment in this member\u2019s bill does a lot to bring the Copyright Act up to date to be able to include parody and satire in it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, a couple of things I just wanted to take note of that have been referenced in earlier speeches tonight. The first was an ACT MP saying to a Green MP\u2014this sounds like a meme, right? An ACT MP says to a Green MP, \u201CIf you hadn\u2019t done it, one of us would have.\u201D It\u2019s not often that that happens. The other was a member of New Zealand First being in opposition because they claimed that meme and parody and satire makes someone or something look ridiculous. Fair point, New Zealand First manage to do that in this House every single day, of themselves, so they don\u2019t need a change to the Copyright Act for that to happen. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe main reason I think it\u2019s so important to progress this is because\u2014and that we support this\u2014it does strengthen freedom of expression. It also means that unintentionally funny things like people claiming they can do their weekly grocery shop for $60 can be immortalised in a meme, and we can watch that over and over and over again. So, Madam Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207760db6a532da956b28b5f9de5b7ff9\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: What about someone asking 12 questions of the Minister of communications?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e3012fae85880a53a37b617440acfea\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, when that member has finished, I\u2019ll take this time to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022 data-id=\u00223b3022e999d053263f21e1a85d55b371\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022297bc572c27f45308dffb067ca3e7915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b3022e999d053263f21e1a85d55b371\u0022\u003EDr HAMISH CAMPBELL (National\u2014Ilam) (20:09)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a great pleasure to rise in support of the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill\u2019s first reading, in the name of Kahurangi Carter. The interesting thing is that this is not the only bill that\u2019s been pulled from the biscuit tin under the name of Kahurangi Carter; there\u2019s been a second one since that. Some MPs spend decades in this House and never manage to actually get one drawn. This member has struck gold early in the parliamentary term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI tried to calculate the odds. It\u2019s actually very rare to be able to get two pulled, but, actually, she\u2019s not the only member in this current Parliament that has had two bills pulled. I would mention that Catherine Wedd has also had two drawn: one for a three-day maternity stay, and then the other regarding a social media ban. I was lucky to get one of my bills drawn earlier this term, which was about fairer taxation on ACC payments, which actually ended up being part of a Government bill. Anyway, I\u2019d better get back to the substance of the bill. I see you looking at me, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe purpose of this bill is to introduce, into New Zealand copyright law, the authority to use copyright work for the purpose of parody or satire. This does bring us in line with other countries, such as Australia, the US, Belgium, France, the Netherlands, Spain, and Germany\u2014I could go on. Currently, our Copyright Act, from back in 1994, is a bit of an outlier. This amendment ensures that creators and commentators have legal breathing room to use works for a bit of comedy or for critical effect without the fear of infringement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI actually thought it was already the law\u2014if you see some of the Green Party\u2019s social media\u2014however, it turns out that\u2019s not parody or satire; they\u2019re actually being serious. Of course, I joke, but, as they say, many a true word is said in jest. Better to try and fail than never to try at all. I believe that, in some quarters, this has already been coined the \u201Cmeme bill\u201D. While it sounds modern, the reality is that this is not really a new idea. We have been trying for many years to finally address this gap in our law. It has been left open for nearly two decades.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s worth noting the history of this bill. Back in 2008, a then Labour-led Government considered a fair dealing exemption for parody and satire, yet it never saw the light of day. In 2011, a former Green MP drafted a member\u2019s bill to do exactly this. He argued that it was essential for protecting free speech and reflecting realities of internet accessibility and technology. However, that bill fell by the wayside. Then, in 2018, Simeon Brown introduced his own bill to seek a very similar thing. What we\u2019re debating today is, in effect, the resurrection of these early efforts, updated for the modern age.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is ironic, perhaps, that it has taken this long to protect the rights of a good joke. We New Zealanders, as has been mentioned, do like to take the mickey. There is more colourful kind of language that can be used to express the same thought, but I think it\u2019s important to note that defamation or offensive misuse and other rules will still be enforced.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Copyright Act hasn\u2019t been updated for a number of years. I think the last time was in about 2008. A lot has changed since 2008. Technology has changed. Our consumption of media has changed. Nobody in 2008 would probably have envisaged watching videos that now dominate social media or the internet. YouTube was only three years old at that stage. Streaming services weren\u2019t a thing. iTunes definitely wasn\u2019t a thing. Some of my colleagues were still in primary school. These advances are impacting the way we create, distribute, consume, and adapt material. Who would have even thought of TikTok back in 2008.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s important that we also have a wider review of our intellectual property laws, which I think the Minister is looking at. I think what we have here is a very simple carve-out, a small change to the Copyright Act, which I think will have a good effect on humour, comedy, and also free speech. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022 data-id=\u00229476a4294c3ccdcf02f2785878e48150\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229476a4294c3ccdcf02f2785878e48150\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North) (20:14)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022rar\u0022\u003EKia orana\u003C/span\u003E, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and take what will be a short call on this bill. Can I, firstly, just acknowledge my colleague and friend Kahurangi Carter for having this bill drawn from the biscuit tin. She certainly is starting to have the touch in terms of having bills drawn from the tin. I want to acknowledge the hard work that she has done in bringing this bill to the House. It looks, from the contributions of members thus far, as though its trajectory is on the way to a select committee of her choosing. I want to acknowledge the work that she has done.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that will provide an update to reflect what is, I think, a modern approach to the way in which we all go about our lives; in particular, being able to debate and participate within a democracy and as part of a democratic process. Ms Carter herself talked about the fact that we don\u2019t want to stifle creative expression. We certainly don\u2019t want to do that. As someone who is a child of the 1980s, believe it or not, I reflect on and remember \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Billy T. James Show\u003C/span\u003E. At the time, actually, when you\u2019re growing up and you\u2019re watching that and you\u2019re experiencing that, to know that aspects of that particular show now would perhaps be questionable, based on the behaviour of people, perhaps, in this place, I think lends itself to a further conversation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhilst this will have a broad applicability in terms of journalists, those involved in social media, creatives, and others, I think the actions and the contributions of members in this House will naturally provide some fodder for content. I look forward to seeing the progress of this bill, and we\u2019re very happy to support it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u00223b7d75c22442b12b2d6cdef14505db66\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00223b7d75c22442b12b2d6cdef14505db66\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (20:15)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a pleasure to round off, from the Government\u2019s side, the first reading speeches for the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill. I certainly echo the sentiment of previous speakers in welcoming Kahurangi Carter and congratulating her for having her bill drawn. As my colleague Hamish Campbell said, the odds are certainly in your favour, so maybe consider buying a Lotto ticket this Saturday!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAlso, I do wish to indicate that I too am a 1980s baby, so I do remember fondly the Billy T satire, who was whanaunga, actually, if you think of those who are from the mighty Maniapoto area. He\u2019s buried just outside of Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia. If you\u2019re going along State Highway 1, you\u2019ve got a lovely hill up near Ng\u0101ruaw\u0101hia\u2014that was where he was laid to rest. I certainly acknowledge his contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are bills of consequence in this Parliament, bills where you think, \u201CThis is why I came to this House.\u201D Sadly, this is not one of those bills, but I do wish to acknowledge that it is an anon-nomoly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227cb9dbb0b3909ac1777aa7513c59b803\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: Phenomenal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efd3fa5eced242e71f5b990908d672e6\u0022\u003ETom Rutherford\u003C/span\u003E: This\u2019ll be the first one they use!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226112c877b7ae47640f3c375d471689c6\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! There you go. I think it is worth tidying up. It\u2019s no disrespect to the member, but thank you for raising this issue in the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EWhen I think of my own experience with satire, of course Billy T. James comes to the fore, but in nearer times, actually, looking at the regime that they have in America\u2014I spent a few years living in America and follow closely a lot of satire shows that are in America. One particular show is \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EReal Time with Bill Maher\u003C/span\u003E. I don\u2019t know if anybody on the other side\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002299308efc06a8f4a3bd2dd1f270765ef4\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: How good is Bill Maher.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228050f6d025c84c55f856d9004e83e8f6\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: He\u2019s good. He\u2019s a good centrist. He\u2019s a Democrat, but he doesn\u2019t mind criticising the Democrats, and he also gets the Republicans in. He is, I think, probably one of the most well-known satirists, who has fallen afoul and gotten on the wrong side of presidents. I think Donald Trump has had a massive run in with him in the past. It is so important for the functioning of a free and liberal democratic society that we enable these satirists to contribute to the public discourse in a way that connects with the public. That\u2019s why people like Bill Maher and \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Daily Show\u003C/span\u003E and \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E and \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Thick of It\u003C/span\u003E and \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EVeep\u003C/span\u003E. I don\u2019t know if anybody remembers the show \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EVeep\u003C/span\u003E. That\u2019s a great satire show\u2014also American. I think they have a huge role to play in helping to engage a wider audience with public discourse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is on that basis that this side is going to be supporting this piece of legislation. I just want to do a plug: if the member does want to send it to the Transport and Infrastructure Committee, we will have a bipartisan approach on that bill, or the Economic Development, Science and Innovation Committee, as my colleague Vanessa Weenink suggested. Look, we look forward to the submissions on this bill and to tidying up the piece of legislation. It is well worth reviewing this, after what has become an outdated piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMy colleague Hamish Campbell again indicated the history that this bill has been through. I look forward to following with interest the submitters that may come, and I wish to do a call to all two viewers at home that are tuning in, that if you feel strongly about this piece of legislation, submit on the bill and you will be heard as part of the select committee process. On that basis, it is a great privilege to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022f1f3b43484258672526397200a41e56d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f1f3b43484258672526397200a41e56d\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (20:20)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, it\u2019s been an engaging and fun debate. I\u2019ve enjoyed hearing about the other members\u2019 bills that have been pulled from the biscuit tin in this term and in previous terms. Thank you to everyone who contributed to this debate, inside and out of the Chamber. I\u2019ve really enjoyed working across the House and getting to know lots of you better so that we could get almost full consensus across the House for this really important bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to reaffirm why this bill is necessary and to talk about some of the ideas that were raised. There was a lot of talk of 1980s babies as well, so I just want to say, shout-out to the 1984 babies\u2014that\u2019s right. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs we close this first reading, I want to affirm why this bill is necessary. This Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill has been coined the \u201Cmeme bill\u201D. When memes first came out, I actually used to call them \u201Cme-mes\u201D. It was about a couple of years later that someone said, \u201CYou know they\u2019re not called \u2018me-mes\u2019, right? They\u2019re called \u2018meems.\u2019 \u201D So for everyone out there still calling them me-mes, they are memes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt its core, this bill is about balance and fairness. It ensures that fair dealing applies to parody and satire, while maintaining protections for copyright holders and for M\u0101ori cultural works. Internationally, similar provisions exist and function effectively without undermining creative industries.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, National talked about the importance of our parliamentary work and the importance of taking on this bill and how important the select committee process will be. National also talked about this post-truth era that we are living in and how it will be important to modernise this bill and to really needle in at select committee to make sure that it is fit for purpose. ACT supports the bill and that is not satire, everybody. In fact, it\u2019s not even an April Fool\u2019s joke. There we go. The self-coined most famous arts and culture spokesperson\u2014Todd Stephenson\u2014said that we need to look at that \u201Cfair dealing\u201D and really solidify what that means in law, to provide clarity to artists and to our legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe heard from Labour\u2014thank you very much\u2014around how taking the mickey out of ourselves is part of the fabric of our country and is in our DNA, and talked about shows that we\u2019ve all grown to love, like \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThe Billy T. James Show\u003C/span\u003E and \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EYes Minister\u003C/span\u003E. Actually, our lovely colleague Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke said, \u201CYeah, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Ebro\u2019Town\u003C/span\u003E!\u201D, and I said, \u201CWere you born when \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Ebro\u2019Town\u003C/span\u003E came out?\u201D So, yes, we all have had that parody and satire touch our lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220838e5f9bac748d2a59aea595e5226a0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d2090e3e90d0610a85e3dc91118cb2fd\u0022\u003ESimon Court\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ESouth Park\u003C/span\u003E!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bbf73eb956ff09997db18c0fc3f8048f\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Now, New Zealand First did talk about intellectual property rights and spoke about the lack of litigation around this bill and why we actually need it. I just want to say that it is hard to quantify how much art has not been created or shared due to the fear of massive legal fines.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would like to say, ultimately, this bill is necessary and is a carefully considered step forward. It provides clarity and supports creative expression and upholds democratic freedom. I urge the House to support this bill, and now we get to voting and I guess we will see if National and ACT indicating support is the ultimate April Fool\u2019s joke or not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 115\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5; Ferris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00223686d37d11e499bf6d12e6b974a12f29\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u002223e63511fe41c1204446b7c5d31a250e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002223e63511fe41c1204446b7c5d31a250e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh) (20:26)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Copyright (Parody and Satire) Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223c265ddb0a31360386e99735ce7c1776\u0022\u003EMilitary Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e6c81e5d160c905ae3718b004e27d86b\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022 data-id=\u00222e1f0d02883a9300caf14b7468cc410d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e1f0d02883a9300caf14b7468cc410d\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato) (20:27)\u003C/span\u003E: Well, thank you, Madam Speaker, it\u2019s a privilege\u2014sorry, let me just start that again. I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to consider the bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, apologies for the initial confusion there, Madam Speaker, this is new territory for me. Unlike some fortunate members in the House, this is my first member\u2019s bill, after nearly nine years in this debating chamber, so it is a pleasure to have the opportunity now to speak on what I believe to be an important member\u2019s bill. I look forward to gauging support across the House and I understand there is a good support for this proposal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll outline some of the aspects within this particular member\u2019s bill, but before I do that, I just want to start by noting that New Zealand has a very proud history of military service: over 180 years\u2019 worth since our initial militia was set up\u2014now, of course, the New Zealand Defence Force. We have deployed all around the world in conflicts: of course, World War I and World War II, where we lost 18,000 New Zealanders and 12,000 New Zealanders respectively between those two conflicts, but indeed many conflicts since that time as well, and that\u2019s the really important part that I want to highlight. Indeed, we did highlight that just recently with the passing of the Anzac Day Amendment Act, which sought to broaden the scope of that piece of legislation beyond those two world wars and a few subsequent conflicts\u2014actually right up to modern environments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMany people may not actually be aware, but we have a lot of Defence personnel right now all around the world in all sorts of deployments, doing all sorts of amazing things for the safety and security of New Zealand on behalf of the Government and people of New Zealand. I want to thank and acknowledge all of those Defence personnel currently offshore and, indeed, all of those currently serving, and of course the veteran community as well, which is the crux of this piece of legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, here we are in the House on 1 April. Now, later this month, we will be commemorating. I\u2019m sure all members in this House will be getting up bright and early for dawn services to commemorate on Anzac Day around the country. Indeed, that\u2019s one of the particularly special parts of the role for me in the Waikato electorate. It\u2019s always a challenge to get around to the different events that are happening from an Anzac Day perspective, because there are so many in a large electorate\u2014as I\u2019m sure you can relate to as well, Madam Speaker. But it is one of the best parts of the role, to go around and see genuine community members out taking a moment, particularly at dawn services, to put themselves into some slight imposition by getting up early and going along to commemorate those who have served on behalf of New Zealand and, in many cases, made the ultimate sacrifice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, we owe a great debt to those people. I think pretty much every member of the community understands that and wants to acknowledge that and demonstrate their respect for that service. This is part of the challenge that\u2019s led to this member\u2019s bill, because we have, unfortunately, some people in New Zealand who like the idea of that recognition, of being honoured in a fashion that veterans are, without actually having done the service, without actually having earned that respect. That is, really, the crux of the member\u2019s bill that I bring forward to the House today, around what\u2019s often called \u201Cstolen valour\u201D, where you get a person representing themselves as having served, wearing an array of medals on Anzac Day or at some other function when, indeed, they have not earned those medals or been awarded those medals. I find that particularly egregious, and I think most Kiwis do as well, because it belittles the experience of those that did genuinely serve and did genuinely receive those medals; those declarations as a result of the sacrifice that they made away from their family, from their friends, on behalf of the country. That should never be undermined.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere has been, of course, a piece of legislation here. The original Act was developed or passed into law in 1918\u2014so that\u2019s a wee while ago now, as members of the House would appreciate. That\u2019s why we need to bring forward this modernisation bill, because, actually, within the Act as it stands now, one of the penalties is a fine of a maximum of \u00A320. That\u2019s somewhat outdated in the context of New Zealand in 2026 and forms part of my logic for bringing this bill forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s an interesting one because, as I said, I think everyone agrees that that\u2019s a pretty terrible thing for someone to do\u2014to portray themselves as having earned or received those medals or decorations when, indeed, they have not. But there\u2019s some nuances around that too, because there are also situations where someone may have served and may be a veteran and may have medallic recognition, but not necessarily for all of the medals they\u2019re wearing. Unfortunately, we see that sometimes too. It is, on occasions, veterans themselves who dress themselves up to be more than the service that they did would allow. That is a concern, as well, but it\u2019s on a gradient. I think that\u2019s where the details of the bill\u2014and I\u2019ll get into the particulars of the change that I\u2019m proposing, shortly\u2014will allow for some flexibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou also have a situation where there are unofficial medals that have been presented to a member of the defence force, they may already have their medals, and then they have an unofficial medal that they are not entitled to add to their medal rack. I\u2019ve got some examples here\u2014that could be the United States Antarctica Service Medal, it could be the Australian Chief of Defence Force Group Commendation. It\u2019s possible for a New Zealand serviceperson to be awarded that, but not to add it to their other medals that they have. In some cases, though, they do. That may be a bit of a protest vote\u2014there may be any reason in behind that. Again, that\u2019s not allowed, but that\u2019s part of why there needs to be a bit of flexibility in how the penalties are put out under this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe anticipation has been building, I know. In terms of the actual changes that I\u2019m proposing here, what we\u2019re looking at is under section 4A, which refers to the \u201C(Offences in respect of military decorations)\u201D\u2014actually, take away the piece that says \u201C\u00A0\u2018and is liable on conviction to a fine not exceeding $500\u2019.\u201D Then down in section 6, under \u201C(Penalties)\u201D, \u201Creplace\u2014\u2018section 4 with \u2018section 4 [and] 4A\u2019;\u201D\u2014so that encapsulates that previous piece I just mentioned. And then change the fine, under section 6, from \u201C20 pounds\u201D to \u201C$10,000\u201D. That is a more accurate reflection, I think, of where the fine should be set this year and then doesn\u2019t make the distinction between decorations and medals and badges and the likes under this legislation. It\u2019s just a simpler approach within that. I should clarify that is a maximum. There is discretion within that, as I said\u2014depending on the severity of the offence\u2014to increase or decrease the fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other piece that I want to modernise, while we\u2019re at it with this 108-year-old piece of legislation, is to change in section 4A(2)(a) the word \u201Chimself\u201D to \u201Cthemselves\u201D, because, actually, it\u2019s not just men that serve in the New Zealand Defence Force; we have women who do an incredible job with the Defence Force as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI actually want to take a moment now to acknowledge some of the service in this debating chamber, because there are actually 10 currently serving MPs that have served in the New Zealand Defence Force. I think many members of this House wouldn\u2019t actually realise it was that high. I suspect that\u2019s the highest it\u2019s been for quite some time. We have one in the Labour Party, who I\u2019m sure will be speaking shortly; one in New Zealand First; and eight in the National Party. I think that\u2019s a really impressive step to have. And look, that\u2019s not the crux of why I\u2019m bringing forward this bill, but I think it demonstrates that we care deeply about the military, we understand some of those challenges, and that\u2019s why this piece of legislation is coming forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe aim here, obviously, is modernising this legislation, but, really, we don\u2019t want to be using this legislation. I would love for this change to act as a deterrent so that we don\u2019t see these people making these bad decisions and turning up and misrepresenting themselves. Unfortunately, we have seen cases of it, and members will have seen media over the last few years where this occasionally pops up\u2014an RSA president, for example, down in Rolleston, I believe it was; some of these situations that are not great. Hopefully, the intent here is that this acts as a deterrent, stops some of that terrible behaviour from happening, and enables us to have more confidence in supporting our veterans.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to the select committee process. I welcome submissions on the bill, and I\u2019m open to improvements as we go. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b350784e76f7147bbf8cbe76453c58d0\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca54aac3b9ddc72ffc3bb099c387ec49\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca54aac3b9ddc72ffc3bb099c387ec49\u0022\u003EGREG O\u0027CONNOR (Labour\u2014\u014Ch\u0101riu) (20:37)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Madam Speaker. I rise, as the Labour Party spokesperson on veterans\u2019 affairs, to speak on the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill. In acknowledging those in the House who have served\u2014my colleague Dan Rosewarne only two weeks ago was still a serving regular force captain in the New Zealand Army, and so it brings home just how recently many of these military engagements that we are all aware of have occurred. I\u2019m also aware that we are standing in a war memorial here in this Chamber, and I think many of us, on quiet occasions, have cause to reflect on those who went before us. As Tim van de Molen has mentioned, the fact of the proximity to Anzac Day\u2014that he gets to read this bill for the first time\u2014is somewhat serendipitous.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EI had hoped at this stage to bring a medal of my own, which is my Police long service and good conduct medal. Yes, good conduct, Mr Bayly; I don\u2019t like that quizzical look on your face\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227b3ebe24438640afbed0da464f9b88bc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002295e9d68cf5ad5fd8a6fc185ab27ddcf1\u0022\u003EHon Andrew Bayly\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I\u2019m surprised. Very surprised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e62bfcd923c173bb59d17ee03b4e145c\u0022\u003EGREG O\u0027CONNOR\u003C/span\u003E: The only reason I didn\u2019t have it here is that I wore it very recently at Government House, where my police cadet wing had a 50-year reunion. I noticed that many here, in the previous bill, were talking about being children of the 1980s. Many of you, with some mathematical ability, will work out that having joined the police 50 years ago, I probably am not a child of the 1980s. However, the significance of my decoration, that medal, became apparent. Many of my colleagues have left the police. That medal is not awarded in the police until you have 14 years of sworn service, and subsequently you get a bar for each seven years\u2014I got to 41 years and nine months. I would have got my fourth bar on my medal; however, I couldn\u2019t be a sworn member of Parliament and of the services at the same time, so I missed out by that three months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHowever, we all fronted up at Government House, and Dame Cindy Kiro was very gracious in organising and inviting us there. We were the Sir Denis Blundell Police Cadet Wing, and being the wing sponsored by a Governor-General, he allowed us to become the first service of any of the forces not only to graduate but to ever march at Government House. Those members who didn\u2019t quite make the 14 years who were there\u2014and there were many of them\u2014looked somewhat in envy, I suppose, disquiet, but certainly looked at those of us that actually did stay long enough to get our medals and felt that perhaps maybe they would like to have stayed a little bit longer. Certainly, I know the feeling they got, and that we all got, being among our peers, was that that was an earned medal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESpeaking on this bill tonight, I think it gives some context to how earned many, in fact all, of these decorations are. I\u2019m sure my colleague on my left\u2014having, I know, served in many of the more recent conflicts and war-like situations that Tim van de Molen spoke about, which the New Zealand forces are still in today\u2014will perhaps be able to share some of his own experiences.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EGiven that context, that is why I think it\u2019s very important that we take breaches of the wearing of these decorations so seriously. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn researching, even some of the rules in this House were actually set around pertaining to military service. One, you can\u2019t call anyone a coward here. That\u2019s because, for those who did go away to war, when they came back after the First World War and the Second World War, it was forbidden to actually refer to the fact that one of your fellow parliamentarians hadn\u2019t actually gone away. Of course, that led to a lot of aggravation in the Chamber, disorder in the Chamber, so it was actually banned. Although I was looking for it\u2014I knew that I\u2019d seen it somewhere, but I couldn\u2019t quite get to the\u2014I generally know Speakers\u2019 rulings, as you do, Madam Speaker, right down to the nth degree, but this one I couldn\u2019t quite land on at the time. That gives some idea of how the military aspect of our lives is still very much here today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn fact, this relatively small piece of legislation is, I see, increasing the fine. It\u2019s interesting that we\u2019re now going to $10,000 from \u00A320. I just did a quick calculation. Allowing for inflation, the fine would actually only be about $2,600. That\u2019s something that perhaps will be able to be sorted out\u2014assuming that this does get to select committee, that\u2019s something that we will actually be able to sort out. There may well be some rationale behind that hefty hike. I think it would probably be a relatively cold day that anyone would be fined $10,000, but I think, having been dragged before the court\u2014and I know the case that Tim van de Molen just spoke about. I think it was someone from Levin, the head of the RSA, who had been brought to task\u2014in fact, taken to court\u2014and fined $500 for doing that very thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think the mere fact of standing in a dock somewhere being so charged would probably be sufficient punishment itself, but certainly it doesn\u2019t hurt always to revisit these things and just ensure that, as we discuss this in the House tonight, as we debate this in the House tonight, we do reflect on what these things mean to us. I think, as a New Zealand society, we are the sum of our component bits\u2014those component bits as far as human occupation goes, from the 1200s, when humans first set foot here, to everyone that\u2019s been here since. As we sit here tonight, we do represent all that came before us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019d like to think that this bill\u2014and certainly Labour will be supporting it\u2014will receive the support and acknowledgment of these military decorations and acceptance of the work and the relevance of the work we still do. There are a couple of other bills that will be before the House. This is one of three bills. The Anzac Day amendment bill, which Mr van de Molen\u2014I don\u2019t think I congratulated you on getting your first bill drawn in nine years. Having been lucky enough to have a couple myself, I know it\u2019s a great feeling that day to hear when you\u2019ve actually been pulled out. If luck goes, if you\u2019ve got another one there, you\u2019ll probably get another one next month, because these things tend to come in pairs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000826\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s another bill: the Veterans\u2019 Recognition Bill. There is some disquiet among our veterans community about just what recognition they do get. It\u2019s the Sir Wira Gardiner case. Wira Gardiner was a very well-known New Zealander. He died of glioblastoma\u2014Agent Orange\u2014which has been pretty much recognised for those Vietnam veterans, which was another group that took a long time to get recognition when they came back. That has been a hard-fought case through the courts, and the veterans community are still awaiting resolution of that, just to see the tone or, shall we say, the way in which the Veterans\u2019 Support Act 2014 is being administered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000827\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgain, it gives me great pleasure to say that the Labour Party will be supporting this bill. There\u2019s probably a little bit of work to be done at the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee, which we\u2019ll look forward to doing, to make sure that this bill and this particular part of the recognition of the military service\u2014of those who went before us, those of course who gave their lives\u2014is very much part of the way in which we recognise modern New Zealand. Therefore, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022 data-id=\u0022e3b916174635c8aa8dcfc2cf6b8bde47\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000828\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e3b916174635c8aa8dcfc2cf6b8bde47\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green) (20:46)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak to the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill tonight. Thank you for giving me space to talk to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000829\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt the outset, I can say that it is important to acknowledge that we do support aspects of this bill, particularly the move to update the language so that it is inclusive and reflects the reality that military service is not limited by gender, just as we need toilets for everyone. However, the central issue is whether this legislation is necessary and proportionate. The evidence suggests that it\u2019s not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000830\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe behaviour that this bill seeks to address is that people falsely claiming military honours appears to be an extremely rare occurrence in Aotearoa. What is the problem that we\u2019re trying to deal with here? The fact that there has been only a single prosecution under this law in over a century indicates that this is not a widespread or growing problem requiring legislative action. Good lawmaking should be driven by a clear need. In this case, there is very little to demonstrate that the current settings are failing or that stronger penalties are required to deter offending.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI acknowledge that we have a number of members in the House who have served in the armed forces, but I don\u2019t really think that nostalgia is a reason why we should legislate. While the current fine may be outdated in pure monetary terms, as we\u2019ve just heard, increasing it significantly does not solve a clearly identified problem. There is a question of proportionality. As my colleague Greg O\u2019Connor noted, a jump to $10,000 for a fine is substantial, particularly when we compare it with what the original penalty would equate to today\u2014as my colleague just mentioned, around $2,000.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000832\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMore broadly, Parliament\u2019s time and resources are limited. It\u2019s important that we prioritise legislation that responds to real, pressing, and widespread issues affecting people. This bill does not meet that threshold, and for those reasons, while we support the inclusive language and the changes thereby, we don\u2019t support progressing this bill as a whole. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ffff3958afe359cfa561cca5c8d48aeb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000833\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ffff3958afe359cfa561cca5c8d48aeb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts) (20:50)\u003C/span\u003E: I am not quite sure what I just heard from the other side there but I think it\u2019s completely rude and disrespectful to every single person who has served, who is serving, and for all of these plaques along this wall that have encouraged us as a country to be democratic and allow members of the Parliament to be elected to be in here\u2014comes about from all of those people who have served and given their life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000834\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI rise, Madam Speaker, on behalf of the ACT Party, more explicitly on behalf of Mark Cameron, an MP who\u2019s unable to be here this evening because of an illness and who would like me to speak positively on this bill, and respectfully for all of those people who have served and continue to serve for democracy in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000835\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill, I believe, is needed. I would like to commend my colleague from the National Party, Mr Tim van de Molen, for bringing this to the House for us to vote positively on and to support. What this bill does, at its core, is ensure that the law properly reflects the value that we place on service and on sacrifice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000836\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe principal Act, which dates back to 1918, was designed to protect against people falsely presenting themselves as recipients of military decorations or distinctive badges, and that protection still matters. When someone wears a medal pretending that they earned it, they\u2019re not just telling a lie, they are trading on the courage, on the hardship, and on the sacrifice of others. Instances of that behaviour are fortunately rare in New Zealand but rarity does not mean irrelevance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000837\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EUpdating the penalty to a modern level of up to $10,000 ensures that the law carries genuine weight and reflects our expectations. The bill also makes a small but meaningful change to reflect that military service is no longer only for men. I still am quite perplexed as to why the Green member Scott Willis thought it was important at that stage to talk about toilets, when we\u2019re talking about modernising\u2014that service is no longer just for men. That amendment acknowledges the reality of modern service and the contributions of women in uniform. It\u2019s a modest drafting change, but symbolically it\u2019s very important. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000838\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to point out one minor thing that may warrant further consideration at select committee. In the principal Act is section 4A. That section has been in place for decades and that places an evidential burden on the defendant in certain circumstances. If we are revisiting this Act, it is appropriate to ask whether that remains consistent with the values that we seek to uphold, requiring a person to prove their innocence rather than the Crown proving guilt engages a fundamental principle of our legal systems. The men and women whose medals we are protecting served a country founded on the rule of law and the presumption of innocence, and so I encourage the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee to also consider this. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000839\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, honouring veterans is about more than ensuring that medals are not misused. A medal is often only part of a much larger story. We honour service not just through protecting decorations but through properly supporting veterans and their lives after service, and through preserving our military history and heritage in museums, collections, and the artefacts that do tell us the full story of their sacrifice.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000840\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a narrow bill with a worthy purpose, which ACT looks forward to engaging constructively with through the parliamentary process. On that note, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u00225a20b3254714dc1cd722f582da3bf368\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000841\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225a20b3254714dc1cd722f582da3bf368\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (20:54)\u003C/span\u003E: I want to start by congratulating Tim van de Molen for the bill and for having the bill drawn. This month, as he said in introducing the bill, we commemorate Anzac Day. Of course, it\u2019s great to see the growing support again for Anzac Day commemorations because all of that is about honouring the people who have served our country. That really is what this bill is about doing: it\u2019s about the integrity of the honour that we give.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000842\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ERecently, of course, we had quite a discussion about the Anzac Day Amendment Act and that was all about broadening the recognition of those who put themselves in harm\u2019s way on behalf of our country. It said it\u2019s not just those who served in military, it\u2019s also those who served in non-military uniforms\u2014it might be nurses, it might be people in the Merchant Navy, whoever it might have been\u2014who put themselves in harm\u2019s way in the service of this country. Of course, at the time, I was very, very strong on saying I want to make sure that we don\u2019t forget the recognition of those New Zealanders who also served effectively alongside our services, but in the colours of another country\u2014fighting for the same purpose\u2014that we don\u2019t forget them because there are many, many thousands of Kiwis who did exactly that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000843\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill, in part, is about expanding recognition, and we\u2019ve already heard that expanding the recognition in its language to say it recognises that both men and women have served our country in times of war and in war-like situations. That is a very positive thing, but the bill is a relatively small bill. That would be quite nice, actually, to tie it in with the Anzac Day Amendment Act, but the main component there is updating the penalty for falsely claiming military honours. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000844\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe current Act, as we know, dates from December 1918, so the penalties are just a tad dated. We\u2019ve already heard\u2014you know, what does \u00A320 equate to in today\u2019s money? It\u2019s interesting; we often have debates in select committee about penalties which are set at some point in time, inflation occurs, and then the penalties become completely outdated. Well, here is that in spades. We argue about that and we get pushback from the bureaucracy saying, \u201CWell, we can\u2019t really allow for penalties to be able to be changed by Order in Council.\u201D But I think that is a problem because it means that every time we have to change any piece, any penalty, we come back and we\u2019ve got to go to this whole process of a bill, which of course is a very expensive process, so I do encourage us to have a think about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000845\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf you look back at what \u00A320 in December 1918 equates to today, it equates to something like $2,772, according to the Reserve Bank\u2019s inflation calculator. It was interesting to see that inflation was running at 13 percent that particular year, so, clearly in wartime, it got a little bit out of control. Of course, we\u2019re seeing a little bit of that kind of thing even though we\u2019re not even involved in a war, but wars in other places affect us in terms of inflation rates. Then again, some of that came from the Green Party and they\u2019re not particularly well acquainted with either economics or inflation. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000846\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou could argue that this is an offence without victims. You know, somebody\u2019s wearing something, it makes them feel good; who\u2019s worried about it? Quite clearly, that is wrong because, as we just argued at length in the Anzac Day Amendment Act, it\u2019s important that we recognise the service that people have given. That\u2019s the service where people have put themselves at risk. They might have seen friends and colleagues who are killed or seriously wounded. They might have been wounded themselves; they might even have been killed. That is a serious contribution to our country and it is something which is important that we respect and that we honour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000847\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESomebody who is passing themselves off as having gone through that process and having served and having won medals or whatever it might be, who has not won that, who has not earned those, that is something that is severely disrespectful\u2014we\u2019ve already heard that in the introduction of this bill\u2014to those people who have put themselves in harm\u2019s risk for their country. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000848\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First has always been a proud supporter of our Defence Force and of all those who have served and the recognition of those. We support that tradition, we honour that service, and we want to preserve the honour of those people who have worn our country\u2019s uniform, served their country in times of war or war-like conditions, and that is what this bill is about. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000849\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMilitary decorations are revered representations of bravery, of service, and of devotion to our country. That is why false claims are so offensive, and we have seen a number of those happening around the world where people have been passing themselves off as having been someone they\u2019re not, having earned medals they have not\u2014and has genuinely caused deep offence. That is why I commend this bill to the House and thank Tim van de Molen for bringing this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000850\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219a7fa364cdd7807ac10ac804df5da63\u0022\u003EHon Members: \u003C/span\u003EMadam Speaker?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000851\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e9e08358e39d96b7d5dd296e50620e2c\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: No, the Labour Party sheet is incorrectly listed. So the next two speeches are inverted. Tim Costley.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022 data-id=\u0022b199c5c9acddb2b584c62dcfece2662c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000852\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b199c5c9acddb2b584c62dcfece2662c\u0022\u003ETIM COSTLEY (National\u2014\u014Ctaki) (20:59)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise in support of this bill. I do want to commend my gallant friend who brought this bill to the House for his exceptional work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000853\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to talk about the bill and what this means and share a couple of stories if we get time, but it would be remiss of me not to just take a moment to respond to what I want to say is the worst speech I\u2019ve heard from a Green Party member, but it\u2019s not. It was woeful. Scott Willis stood there and said that this bill was about nostalgia\u2014veterans are just about nostalgia, and medallic recognition for those who serve, those who go to war, those who lay their life on the line is simply nostalgia. That shows you what the Greens think about our military. That shows you the respect that they have for our service people in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000854\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI bet you, if you go to their Instagram pages\u2014go to Scott Willis\u2019 Instagram page and look up 25 April last year, I bet you he was getting a selfie at his local Anzac Day parade. To turn up here and say it\u2019s just nostalgia\u2014Anzac Day is just nostalgia! This is one of the most fundamental days of our country; 6 February, no doubt, but 25 April 1915 as well. How can we forget? I see other members from the Green Party holding their heads in shame. I bet they were embarrassed about what they heard come out of Scott Willis\u2019 mouth. I have spoken with other Green Party members that I\u2019d like to think actually have a different view. At the end of my speech, I will yield the last 20 seconds if a Green Party member wants to stand up and say, \u201CActually, we support this bill; we think veterans are worth more than nostalgia, and we will support them.\u201D I will give my time to let someone stand up and do that. I think there are one or two that might even take that opportunity, but I challenge them to come and do that. There is time for them to come down to the House if they\u2019re not here already and make that contribution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000855\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is far more than nostalgia. These are the same people that want to defund the Police. These are the same people that campaign on that and think that\u2019s worthy. The person who said that got promoted to No. 3 on the party list ahead of some very good MPs\u2014I\u2019m looking at one. That\u2019s the kind of thing they value. Let New Zealand take a look; let New Zealand take note of what we heard today. The one good thing he said from the bill was that it changed \u201Chimself\u201D to \u201Cthemselves\u201D. It was a gender thing. How can you be so out of touch as this Green Party to think that that is the good thing in the legislation? Of course there are men and women and all sorts of people who serve in our military, but that\u2019s not what this is about; this is about recognising service, honouring service, and ensuring it gets the respect it deserves, and I see none of it\u2014none of it\u2014from that corner of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000856\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOK, I\u2019ll take a deep breath and try to say what I was going to say. This is a good bill to talk about. I brought my\u2014I happened to just get them out to take back for Anzac Day [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHolds up medals\u003C/span\u003E]. I\u2019ll be speaking at various services this year, but I bet you, at the civic service in Paraparaumu at 9 a.m., I will meet the great-grandson of Keith Elliott, who won the Victoria Cross in World War I. He wears his great-grandfather\u2019s medals, but like everyone can, and still can under this bill, they wear them on the right-hand side. It\u2019s a way of saying, I want to honour those who went before me. It might be a great-grandfather, it might be a mother, it might be a sister, it might be a son, but they can still wear other people\u2019s medals.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000857\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not what this is about. This is about the people who wear them on the left. If you\u2019ve seen the great Australian music video\u2014I\u2019m not going to pass judgment on it in this House, but you wear your medals on the left if you earn them yourself, and it\u2019s about those who choose to do it. Now, I kind of just don\u2019t get it, if I\u2019m really honest. I served in Afghanistan with someone who won\u2014earned\u2014a Victoria Cross. I can\u2019t comprehend someone else wanting to do it. The thing I struggle with on Anzac Day actually goes in the opposite direction. I stand up and I think, \u201CI\u2019ve got eight medals here. My grandfathers both got five in World War II; they deserve them more than me.\u201D I feel like an imposter, and to think that someone would go the other way, it kind of blows your mind to think that people would do that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000858\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other point I would just make, and the last thing\u2014and if I get an indication that someone wants to take the call, I will yield\u2014is that these medals mean what they do to the person that earned them. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EPoints to medals\u003C/span\u003E] Those two are for service in Afghanistan. Now, I worked with people who didn\u2019t earn the Victoria Cross, but I say they earned their medal more than me. The situations they were in\u2014I think of people like Jamie and Steve; I think of Pup, I think of Vic, I think of Shep, I think of many people. As our commanding officer over there said to us when they handed them out, \u201CYou know what you did to earn this. This is what it means to you.\u201D I can\u2019t imagine anyone who would want to go in the other direction. If they do, $10,000 is the least they deserve. I commend the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00220b60f3de86f94cdcba16d6caa82b94e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022a8542d5008ba0b0f5a7cd407df5c6a33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000859\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220b60f3de86f94cdcba16d6caa82b94e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a8542d5008ba0b0f5a7cd407df5c6a33\u0022\u003EHon DAMIEN O\u0027CONNOR (Labour) (21:05)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I\u2019d firstly like to congratulate Tim van de Molen for having this pulled out of the legislative lotto that happens every fortnight. People will make comments on the importance or value of the bills; this is one that has come out and provides an opportunity to address some clearly anomalous situations. Congratulations also to Dan Rosewarne, who I haven\u2019t had a chance to welcome in. I wasn\u2019t here when he was sworn in, so welcome. It is great to have another person with military experience and background, and we\u2019ve heard from some of them tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000860\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m not going to speak for too long. As the defence spokesperson, this is the first time I\u2019ve spoken, and it is indeed an honour to represent a part of Government responsibility that is important for our whole country. As we move towards Anzac Day, I acknowledge that importance. I received a letter from someone, who I\u2019m not going to name, who was pointing out that service in Malaysia at a certain time wasn\u2019t acknowledged, and access to a medal for that service has still not been acknowledged, and it\u2019s a point that he thinks I should take up. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000861\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, without getting into the detail of it, it once again emphasises the importance of acknowledgment and medals. In fact, the Labour Government, going back, did acknowledge service for many, many people. I remember presenting a medal in the Motueka RSA to someone who was well into his 70s or almost 80s, I think, and him crying. He was so emotional that for the first time, he had received acknowledgment for his commitment to our country. It reminded me, and I\u2019ve never forgotten that incident, of the importance of, as I say, having access to medals, acknowledging service, and then, of course, respecting those medals. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000862\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill addresses the very rare occasions\u2014certainly, one incident over many, many years would indicate that it\u2019s very rare that anyone would fraudulently display or claim the medals. Indeed, I, like probably many others, have received medals from family members who have passed away, and people thought I was the most appropriate person to take those. I\u2019d never thought it was appropriate that I should wear them. This was not someone that close to me. There are, however, others who have close family members and grandparents, and who are legitimately able to wear the medals as a sign of a family member who has given that commitment. It\u2019s so far removed from myself, I don\u2019t feel that way. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000863\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe point is that most Kiwis, whether they\u2019ve been in the military service or not, do acknowledge\u2014not just on Anzac Day\u2014and respect the importance of medals. Indeed, my cousin Greg O\u2019Connor tells me the police force was a high-risk occupation. I\u2019m not quite sure, but it is another area of commitment and risk\u2014just as the fire service is as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000864\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour supports this bill as an opportunity, through that legislative lotto that delivers for some and not for others\u2014but, none the less, it\u2019s an opportunity to address some issues that can be improved for New Zealanders. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022d4d31035834f603aff1c425f59669092\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000865\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d4d31035834f603aff1c425f59669092\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK (National\u2014Banks Peninsula) (21:08)\u003C/span\u003E: Good evening, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure, as always, to speak on a bill on a members\u2019 day\u2014especially when it\u2019s the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill in the name of Tim van de Molen. I congratulate Tim for having this drawn and for bringing it to the House. When Tim first spoke to me about this bill that he was considering doing, I immediately said, yes, this is an important thing to do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000866\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EOne of the things that this bill does is increase the penalty for purporting to have something where you haven\u2019t\u2014stolen valour is one way of putting it. Increasing that higher than would be expected for just inflationary change, from \u00A320 in 1918 to $10,000 now, is not merely saying that this is just an increase to a penalty; it\u2019s another way of saying how much we value service. We value service so much that if people are pretending that they served, the infringement and the fine that they will get for that will be very substantial. Members across the House might not understand the importance of that and why that matters to veterans. I think it\u2019s worth saying that if you do this, it is a significant event. It is a significant fine, and $10,000 is a lot of money for just about everybody. Yes, it has been noted that there\u2019s only been one prosecution in New Zealand regarding this, but that doesn\u2019t mean to say that there haven\u2019t been more instances of this. They may not have made the media in the same way, but just because something hasn\u2019t come through the courts does not mean that it\u2019s not an important issue. That\u2019s why it was quite ironic, actually, to hear squat\u2014Scott Willis\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000867\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a8ff6e3602c492880b65258f59645c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226518227a387de857804eae325c60db6c\u0022\u003EDana Kirkpatrick\u003C/span\u003E: Squat Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000868\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002288978fb9592a4911a8e47eae04d164f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229babf15c33d48cae119e5303a529adf6\u0022\u003EDr VANESSA WEENINK\u003C/span\u003E: Squat Willis, sorry, Scott Willis\u2014after we had just been debating the parody bill, which had no legal problems leading to its being brought to the House. To then say it\u2019s not important to be discussing this bill, and, as my gallant friend Tim Costley says, for him to stand in a war memorial and say that this bill is about nostalgia was outrageous and quite despicable. If he was here, I would almost ask him to withdraw and apologise. I hope that he considers coming back to the House to withdraw and apologise for all of those people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000869\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETonight, we are discussing this on 1 April, not far from Anzac Day, and it\u2019s appropriate that we have this bill brought in at this time. It\u2019s also part of a suite of things that the National-led Government is doing to further recognise our veterans. We\u2019ve recently had the Anzac Day bill that has been through the House and also there is the work that\u2019s been done on recognition for veterans, which are separate items. There has been a lot of contention around how we respond to those who have served and those who have entitlements because of their service, and injuries or illness that may have been a result of those services. It\u2019s important that we delineate those and don\u2019t cross-pollinate, if you like, between those bills because they are separate and discrete issues; that\u2019s why they\u2019re not all brought together at once. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000870\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is an opportunity to speak about the importance of medallic recognition, to what it means for our country that we value people who serve, and what it means to those veterans and to other people who are serving at the moment; that we do show that this has a real value and that it\u2019s not just a token thing, and that the penalty is high and harsh for this kind of misdemeanour if it happens. With that, I, again, congratulate my colleague Tim van de Molen and commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e2e1c47f43e1d005ea9337b45a540995\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000871\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e2e1c47f43e1d005ea9337b45a540995\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour) (21:13)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s an absolute pleasure to take a call on the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill. I\u2019d just like to acknowledge the gallant member Mr Tim van de Molen for getting his bill drawn out of the ballot and, indeed, the rest of the gallant members within this Chamber, and, most importantly, the veterans who have earned these medals as part of their service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000872\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPeople often ask, \u201CHow would you possibly know that someone has not earned a medal?\u201D Well, if you\u2019re a veteran, you know relatively quickly. Here\u2019s my medals here, and as Mr Costley mentioned, you wear them on the left-hand side. Now, there\u2019s several ways that they are mounted. These ones are court mounted. You can also get swing mounted, where they hang low. You\u2019ll see a lot of the World War II vets, Vietnam vets, will have them swing mounted. You\u2019d usually have the New Zealand Operational Service Medal at one end, the black and white one, and then you\u2019ll have your campaign medals. From there, you\u2019ll tend to have your UN or your NATO medals. In this case, it\u2019s the NATO Non-Article 5 ISAF for Afghanistan. Then you have your long-service medals with your bars, and then you have your New Zealand Defence Service Medal recognising three years\u2019 service. Now, this is probably the most important medal because it marks the three years that you\u2019re subject to the Armed Forces Discipline Act and it\u2019s an acknowledgement that you actually signed that dotted line and decided to complete that service\u2014so I\u2019ve always seen that one as the most important. You\u2019ll also see that the name and the registration number is engraved on the side of the medals. So if you ever find some, you look round the side and you\u2019ll find the names and the registration numbers engraved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000873\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, if someone isn\u2019t meant to be wearing them or they\u2019ve added a few on, you might get a mix of swing and court mounted on the left-hand side of the chest. You may also get these medals not in the right order\u2014you might get a long-service medal tagged on to the side or they\u2019re mixed up around. That\u2019s how a veteran can, usually, spot someone that\u2019s wearing them that is not entitled. If you do see that\u2014usually most veterans will actually willingly tell you about how they earned these medals. I particularly enjoy it when kids come up to me and ask me about them, and any veteran will be more than willing to, you know, explain how they earned them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000874\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMr Tim van de Molen is absolutely right, it can be a slap in the face to veterans and also their families because it\u2019s the time away from home, the time away from helping out with children, and all those things that come with not being there as part of that family unit\u2014so your family\u2019s, essentially, kind of, in a way, earned these medals as well. It can be a slap in the face to the families of veterans if they see people wearing them that aren\u2019t entitled to them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000875\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo what\u2019s changed with this bill? It\u2019s the deterrent and the financial penalties. They are outdated; they no longer reflect the seriousness. And so this bill that\u2019s been introduced today is an acknowledgment of that seriousness. For that reason, we commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000876\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6d4d3e618a705b1fd6313d0784b4adc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s the member\u2019s right of reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022 data-id=\u0022c5f51a97d39a8786b5921fc799d050bd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000877\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c5f51a97d39a8786b5921fc799d050bd\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato) (21:17)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Look, happy to take the last call here and can I start by thanking members across the Chamber that have spoken on the bill this evening. I think it has been encouraging, in nearly all cases, to hear strong support for the intent of the bill and the genuine approach that members are bringing to the consideration of this as it hopefully progresses through the subsequent stages: select committee next and then back into the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000878\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere\u2019s a couple of things that I just wanted to note that I didn\u2019t quite get time for in my first contribution and also in response to some of the comments. It\u2019s been picked up by others as well, but the intent here is not at all to stop family members from recognising those that have served\u2014grandfather, great-grandfather, parents, kids, whatever their example situation may be for them. As Mr Costley explained, they wear those medals then on the right-hand side to symbolise that it wasn\u2019t themselves that earned it, but they\u2019re wearing it on behalf of a family member. That is entirely appropriate and, indeed, we encourage that. It\u2019s a great way for them to be able to share their pride in the service of a family member and also to commemorate that service in the community at Anzac Day and the likes. So not stopping that at all; it\u2019s, really, just about ensuring that we are cracking down on some of that disgraceful behaviour that\u2019s been canvassed across the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000879\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, there\u2019s a comment around the level of the fine being above inflation. I thought Vanessa Weenink spoke quite well to that, and that, actually, the intent was to demonstrate that this is a valuable consideration for us. The value of the veteran\u2019s service is a key part of that. Now, look, there\u2019s also an element of, I guess, futureproofing within that too, right? It\u2019s a maximum fine of $10,000, so there is discretion, but we don\u2019t want to be coming back to the House every five years having to adjust that threshold to make it a reasonable deterrent again, so that\u2019s the point there: it\u2019s actually reasonably in step with comparable jurisdictions as well. I\u2019m pretty comfortable with that $10,000 level, but, of course, open to hearing feedback on that from submitters through the process as well.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000880\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve also had a handful of people ask, \u201CWell, who are these 10 MPs in the House, currently, that have served?\u201D I think there\u2019s been a few hints given out, in terms of some of the medal racks that have been held up tonight. I will name and shame, actually, and we\u2019ll start with the most recent addition to the debating chamber\u2014indeed, a welcome back to Dan Rosewarne from the Labour Party, great to have him back in the team and I acknowledge his service in the New Zealand Army; Andy Foster from New Zealand First who served in the New Zealand Navy; then, in the National Party, we have Andrew Bayly and Shane Reti, who both served in the army; Chris Penk who served in the navy; myself, Joseph Mooney, and Penny Simmonds in the army; Tim Costley in the air force, bless him; and Vanessa Weenink in the army. Sorry, just a little bit of banter there between services. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000881\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook, I think it\u2019s relevant to note that, actually, because it\u2019s a really important part of the pride that I think each of those members brings and, indeed, that we are standing in a memorial here, acknowledging the service of many people that have come before us. I think it\u2019s an important step to acknowledge and so I want to thank them for their service. Beyond that, as I\u2019ve said, this is really about acknowledging the service of veterans across New Zealand and ensuring that we continue to do that in a respectful manner, to clamp down on those who seek to misrepresent themselves as something they are not, and to ensure\u2014well, hopefully to act as a deterrent, so we\u2019re not actually having to use this legislation in the first place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000882\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI hope that over the course of this process of going through the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee and back into the House we may get support from the Green Party. I know it had some initial indications of support earlier on. It\u2019s a shame to see they appear to have changed their view on that. Hopefully they\u2019ll come back round and recognise that it\u2019s not just about nostalgia, as Scott Willis horribly put it but, actually, it\u2019s an appropriate recognition of what has been a very important service on behalf of New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000883\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ll leave it at that, but thanks again to all members who spoke on this, I appreciate the contribution. I look forward to the next stage and welcome submissions from the community, as well. I\u2019m really looking forward to that feedback on how we might be able to massage it and make it better, if necessary, and then come back to the House. I commend it and look forward to the next step. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000884\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000885\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000886\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022041ad4a67c4c6976ec7ce75b8c968302\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6ea1a7e9eabc71c24e6a79dafcf7de3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000887\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6ea1a7e9eabc71c24e6a79dafcf7de3\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono) (21:22)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Military Decorations and Distinctive Badges (Modernisation) Amendment Bill be considered by the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000888\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000889\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000890\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e11dfd909c9c7530bc35a8666751e8a3\u0022\u003EFinancial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000891\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228597025418100c343d9cc9bcad5376ea\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u0022da969535936898bbde21ba8e8df77927\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000892\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022da969535936898bbde21ba8e8df77927\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa) (21:22)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Governance and Administration Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000893\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is a simple one in its purpose, but important in its effect. It\u2019s about fairness, transparency, and making life a little bit more affordable for New Zealanders who are already doing it tough. These guys are doing it particularly tough; it\u2019s about our migrant workers, our cleaners, our nurses, people who are in Aotearoa doing the mahi and paying a little bit every week for their family offshore. Maybe it\u2019s our Pacific migrants in South Auckland who are working those jobs which we really need them to work\u2014they are the backbone of the South Auckland economy\u2014and perhaps they are paying a little bit to their mum every week or perhaps they are making a transfer for their retirement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000894\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhatever it is, at the moment they are paying more than almost anyone in the world for that service because the fees that are being advertised to them are very unclear; they\u2019re not transparent and there is not a point of competition at the point of sale. Often, these people, who are some of the most vulnerable workers, are provided with very little information and that information is misleading about what the fees are because it is perfectly legal in New Zealand to say \u201Czero fees\u201D when all of the fees are hidden in the forex spread. This is a market which is not working and this is a bill which makes a simple change, fixing that up so that we can have a competitive system and so people can get a fair deal, shop around, and get what they\u2019re owed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000895\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhile we\u2019re debating this bill, fuel prices are soaring, households are under pressure, and people are finding it harder and harder to make those choices every week. This is a cost of living measure because it will cost people in this situation thousands of dollars every year if they are sending regular payments every week, or, for the grandfather who came to my office for help from his local MP because he thought he had been scammed when he sent a large amount of savings back to where he was from to his daughter\u2014he thought he had lost $13,000 in that transport. When we started helping him with a scam claim with his bank, we discovered that actually what had happened is that that was the fee which he was charged to make that payment. That is wrong. We can fix that. This bill will go some generous way to making sure that services that are better for catering to his needs have a foothold in this market and fintechs can compete for those services, and that those fees have to be actively disclosed to him at the point of sale so he would have known what he was being charged and didn\u2019t hear about it weeks later from his daughter on the phone. It was incredibly difficult for me to work through with him because after we had helped him understand that he felt shame. He doesn\u2019t want to talk about it anymore because it is something that he deeply regrets. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000896\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is something which is not only costing New Zealanders, but it is robbing them of dignity; robbing them of their money and robbing them of a feeling that they are in control of their own financial affairs. That\u2019s what happens when you have markets which don\u2019t work for consumers, when people are paying whatever kind of fees that rob them of the certainty that when they are advertised a product they will pay that price. Things like dark patterns on internet transactions where you sign up for a concert ticket, you expect to be paying $80 for that and then you\u2019ve added on concert insurance, you\u2019ve added on the credit card fee, and you\u2019ve added on another fee for the merchant, and all of a sudden that concert is $120. Things like that, which make people feel like transacting online, transacting through some of these services is all a bit hard and further robs them of the ability to participate in what is simply financial infrastructure. Just like we should view the Government\u2019s role in providing roads, schools, and bus routes for people to get around the city to live their lives and to do business, we should also see this as essential financial infrastructure that everyone should be able to participate in. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000897\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know every party in this House can agree about those critical services which mean that people can transact, can buy products, and can participate as full citizens in the New Zealand economy. This is one of those things. It\u2019s a particular thing for people who have been left out of the decisions about consumers. They\u2019re not often prioritised. These are migrant workers. These are people who are some of the most vulnerable workers. These are also people who\u2014say, our Filipino community, many of whom are health workers and work in incredibly important jobs and will be making these payments regularly. For many of them, they\u2019re pretty tech savvy and able to use many of the tech services. But for others, where there are barriers to them accessing those kinds of financial technology services which are targeted at this and bring rates down, they\u2019re also seeing on shopfronts in their communities rates that are advertised to them as if they are low, but they are not in fact low. They are coming from a jurisdiction which legislates and regulates this much more closely than we do, so the level of trust in the New Zealand system is actually too high, coming from their jurisdiction which has proper rules in place like this. New Zealand isn\u2019t doing its part for these people who are working really hard in the jobs that we need them to. This is a simple fix that we can make here. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000898\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s also not just about migrant workers; it\u2019s also about any New Zealander who buys anything online and anyone who goes away on overseas trips or goes to see family overseas. If you\u2019re in Australia and you\u2019re converting New Zealand currency to Australian currency, you\u2019ll be paying, often, more in New Zealand than you would do to convert it the other way in Australia because, at the moment, the way that our fees are regulated means that there\u2019s not transparency\u2014but there are those sorts of rules in Australia. It\u2019s really important that we at least line up with different jurisdictions to make sure that New Zealanders can get a fair deal on our shores. Then New Zealanders wanting to buy things overseas are also well served by our rules and regulations here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000899\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is one simple way that the rules are stacked against people who are just trying to live their lives and buy products that are overseas and enjoy the hard-earned money that they make. This is something which is very profitable for many of the services that offer this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000900\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s really unclear, for people who are using them, that that is the case and that it is actually really profitable if they continue to use them in that way. I hope that this clear change to the Financial Markets Conduct Act 2013, requiring upfront disclosure, is something we can agree on around this House. I\u2019m very hopeful that this is something we can work through at the select committee stage to also raise this issue as something that has cross-partisan support and will stick, because there are thousands of people right now who would benefit from this change. It\u2019s something that I hope we can all be talking about with the people in our communities who need to be able to see this change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000901\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor migrant workers, at the moment, things are tough. For Kiwis who have small businesses that are transacting offshore, things are tough. This is one simple measure where we can say the cost of these services should not be borne by you. You shouldn\u2019t be cross-subsidising other services offered by financial institutions, because you are doing this; you should be paying what, say, Australians are paying and what, say, Americans and people in the UK are paying, and that is not the case now. That is something we can all fix tonight, working through the submissions and getting the bill and regulations planned out that we can all support. I hope we do that. I commend it to the House, and I encourage everyone to vote for this cost of living measure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000902\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1a77806f20d4003b88d43a230f6e2a5\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022 data-id=\u00229a81e0e4c3fd60d9a97490bae1f64e3e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000903\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229a81e0e4c3fd60d9a97490bae1f64e3e\u0022\u003ECAMERON BREWER (National\u2014Upper Harbour) (21:31)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It\u2019s great to stand up and talk to the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill, and I congratulate the sponsor, Arena Williams. I also want to follow in her tribute earlier on the late, great Sir Barry Curtis, long-time Mayor of Manukau City from 1983 to 2007\u201424 years of building Manukau\u2014one of our great civic leaders in Auckland and someone who leaves an incredible legacy behind. Condolences to Sir Barry Curtis, aged 87, who lived a very full life of community service. For those of us that remember, in the 1990s and 2000s, getting around Auckland\u2014as you would, Mr Speaker; I\u2019m not trying to age you\u2014Sir Barry would recite his introductory comments and greetings, every Pasifika greeting that ever existed, as part of his repertoire. Here\u2019s to Sir Barry Curtis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000904\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe National Party won\u2019t be supporting this bill, and I\u2019ll take you through that shortly. I\u2019m pleased that it is going to be referred to the Governance and Administration Committee by the sounds of it, and I want to also acknowledge the Governance and Administration Committee deputy chair, Tim Costley, and the whole committee that today launched a parliamentary inquiry into Fire and Emergency New Zealand\u2019s (FENZ\u2019s) fleet issues. That was following a motion, a very proactive motion, that was put on the Table by Tim Costley earlier, deputy chair and member up the K\u0101piti Coast. Well done, Tim. I wish the committee all the best with its endeavours on its parliamentary inquiry into FENZ.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000905\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs the previous sponsor\u2019s already articulated, the financial markets amendment bill\u2014let\u2019s just call it that\u2014proposes to amend the 2013 Financial Markets Conduct Act, claiming to require greater transparency of international money transfers. It requires of financial institutions fair-conduct programmes to ensure that customers are provided with full disclosure of fees and costs associated with international money transfers. I don\u2019t think anyone would disagree with more disclosure and more transparency around fees and costs pertaining to international money transfers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000906\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI come with good news\u2014I come with good news. Help is already on the way, and many members will recall that we are in the process of passing, through this Parliament, three bills regulating our financial services sector\u2014a trifecta there to ensure that they are more effective. Our Financial Markets Conduct Amendment Bill, I think, has had an interrupted second reading. It\u2019s certainly gone through select committee, and that will address and provide the architecture to more closely scrutinise and regulate, and provide oversight to, the issues that the sponsor has outlined. That bill, the one that\u2019s halfway through Parliament, has got a focus on improving outcomes for consumers, and, importantly, it simplifies and clarifies minimum requirements for fair-conduct programmes. It aims to modify the conduct of financial institutions (CoFI) regime to streamline compliance and strengthen the Financial Markets Authority\u2019s (FMA\u2019s) oversight. Of course, this bill comes in over the top of this piece of legislation, and it comes in 12 months\u2014only 12 months\u2014after CoFI has taken effect, on 1 April 2025. So 12 months on and with a bill already in the House, we don\u2019t see the need for this. I\u2019ll speak further to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000907\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe financial services and banking sector remains on notice\u2014frankly, it remains on notice\u2014and you may have seen, and you may have read about, a 16-month banking inquiry, and we\u2019ve had a six-month follow-up since then. We made about 19 key recommendations\u201414 which were unanimous. There were a range of issues\u2014and I want to pay tribute to Arena Williams for being at the forefront of that inquiry and never missing an opportunity\u2014and never missing an opportunity. That work continues. The banking inquiry is a live document. We reported back later last year, and we are having those six-monthly come-to-Jesus moments with our banking sector, our non-deposit takers, and others\u2014fintechs as well\u2014as to how it is working. You might have seen, today, from the Hon Scott Simpson, more progress and more push as we open up, and regulate, our open banking system.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000908\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Financial Markets (Conduct of Institutions) Amendment (Duty to Provide Financial Services) Amendment Bill, otherwise known as the \u201CWoke Banking Bill\u201D, is another piece of legislation that sits with the Finance and Expenditure Committee and that Mr Foster is the sponsor of. We\u2019ve given Mr Foster an extension of time re: that conduct bill for him to report back and see if we can come to an agreement and if there\u2019s anything that we could get through the House. In good faith, Mr Foster continues to do that work on the \u201CWoke Banking Bill\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000909\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe CoFI is also under way and leading the charge on reviewing the insurance sector and all the costs that it faces. That is something that CoFI\u2019s been assigned to do and that our Cabinet has agreed to, and it will report back on the insurance sector in ways that, perhaps, we can add more accountability, more transparency, and, perhaps, even more cost-effectiveness to the insurance sector in the coming months.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThree bills streamlining the financial services are going through this Parliament, and there was a banking inquiry that went on for 16 months and came with a number of key recommendations that we continue to monitor, and the Financial Markets Conduct Amendment Bill, which is sitting at second reading, will simplify and clarify minimum requirements for fair-conduct programmes. It does aim to modify the CoFI regime, which is only a year old, to streamline compliance and strengthen FMA oversight. We are very confident, in the National Party, that, frankly, there is a lot of work going on and there is a lot of sunlight being shone\u2014as they say, sunlight is the best form of disinfectant\u2014on the banking sector and on the financial services sector as far as transparency around costs, fees, and pricing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000911\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWith that work well under way, with three bills before the House, with one inquiry completed and another still to report back, we are confident that we have got all the oversight that we are ever going to get as far as costing and prices on this. Ongoing reforms are already addressing what the sponsor is trying to achieve here, and the bill that\u2019s before the House is already clarifying and simplifying the obligations of our financial institutions. The bill that is being promoted today would separate that out and run in direct conflict with the legislation that is there and the regulatory tools that already exist and that we are looking to strengthen and put more transparency and accountability around.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000912\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI commend the sponsor on her member\u2019s bill and congratulate her on having it drawn, but, again, we\u2019ve got so much work under way in this space and we can\u2019t afford to be distracted with this member\u2019s bill. We wish her all the best, but we won\u2019t be supporting it. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u00222b30d9cbb712dfd66c9c4cb173664c2d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000913\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b30d9cbb712dfd66c9c4cb173664c2d\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (21:41)\u003C/span\u003E: I just want to commend Arena Williams for this member\u2019s bill. I think we\u2019ve been lobbied by quite similar stakeholders on this very same issue. As the Green Party\u2019s commerce and consumer affairs portfolio holder, we support the intent of this bill. We know, from evidence as well as feedback from the community, that New Zealanders do pay more on international money transfers than our counterparts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000914\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe have a huge migrant population. We\u2019re a Pacific nation. Consumers should have access to certainty, transparency, and fairness when it comes to international money transfers. I do think the member putting forward this bill is making a very commendable effort to put in place some clarity around the fair conducts programmes, specifically in international money transfers, so we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000915\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI did want to touch on some of the contributions that have happened in this debate, and particularly from the National Party. I do think that the arguments being given for not supporting this bill just simply do not stack up. It\u2019s bizarre to me that the National Party claims that there\u2019s a lot of work happening in select committees on related bills. They argue that this bill goes contrary to what is already happening. But I would say that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000916\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bc2e6357c2fe0167ad28f936ecfe96b6\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: I never used those words.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000917\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a824c9bce0296381f5f12c84f521a068\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH\u003C/span\u003E: Well, basically, that was the argument that was presented. I do think that if the National Party had issues with the specific language, in clause 5 and 6 particularly, of Arena Williams\u2019 bill, that\u2019s what the select committee is for\u2014to actually refine the language in the bill, to make sure that, perhaps, if the issue is that the member thinks that it\u2019s not aligned with the Government work programme or other bills, we make it aligned. But I did not specifically hear from the member of the National Party about how the Government is looking at focusing on international money transfers, which, to my knowledge, hasn\u2019t been a particular focus of select committee work. I think the opportunity that we have with this bill is to actually shine a spotlight on international money transfers more broadly, and I do think we would benefit from hearing from members of the community in relationship to how much they\u2019re paying compared to their overseas counterparts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000918\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is an issue that particularly affects people who need to support their loved ones who may live overseas. It feels like having New Zealanders pay more money for international money transfers serves no one but the entities that benefit from it. It doesn\u2019t serve people here, it doesn\u2019t benefit the families overseas, and so we do think this bill deserves attention in the select committee stage. If the Government was concerned about the work programme of select committees, perhaps they should just drop some of the silly bills that I think are taking indeed a lot of time in select committees\u2014the English Language Bill, for example, is a great one, where I do think we can just basically get rid of it and open some space in the select committee to actually evaluate this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000919\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do think, again, this bill ultimately deserves attention in the select committee. I welcome the member for engaging constructively with stakeholders who have long called for reform in this area, and we are supporting this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022 data-id=\u0022368e2ca267b6b589126c64d4b04ae019\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000920\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221a30b7d60a03452cb9b736efc6896cdb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022368e2ca267b6b589126c64d4b04ae019\u0022\u003EDr PARMJEET PARMAR (ACT) (21:45)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am taking this call on behalf of the ACT Party to speak on the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill. I would like to start by congratulating Arena Williams for her bill being drawn and for coming before us for the first reading of this bill. We thought hard about this bill. We understand that there is a very narrow policy in this bill, and after thinking hard, we have decided that we will be supporting the first reading of this bill to enable it to go to the next stage\u2014that is, the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000921\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe really want to scrutinise this issue in the select committee process. We really want to test the policy in this bill against the real-world evidence before we commit to any change after the select committee process. We want to allow this process to happen, because we understand that there are lots of communities that are impacted because of international money transfers that happen, because of some hidden costs that sometimes people can\u2019t see\u2014especially Pacific communities and migrant communities. If there is anything we can do to help our Pacific communities and migrant communities, we really want to give serious consideration to that. On that basis, we have decided that we are supporting the first reading of this bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000922\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the select committee process, we definitely want to hear from people who do lots of international money transfers, including Pacific communities and migrant communities. We also want to hear from banks, financial institutions, and those who provide money transfer services, because we want to understand from them, as well, what the impact will be of this bill on them\u2014on their capacity and operations and how it will impact competition. All those things are really important for us to understand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000923\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know this is about consumers. It is about transparency of fees or any additional costs that come when somebody is making an international money transfer. On the other hand, we do not want to put unnecessary regulatory burdens on the sector, because we know if you do that, it\u2019s, ultimately, the consumer that will be paying the cost. We want to weigh up all those things in the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000924\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI said that we specifically want to hear from Pacific communities and migrants, but, of course, businesses also do lots of international money transfers, but businesses are more informed; they are more aware. But there are some communities that are not that aware about the hidden costs. We understand that this bill is to require these international money transfer providers to make the cost visible upfront, because there is no point if they realise the cost after the money has been transferred and then they see the actual money that has been received at the other end, and they realise that, actually, the money that they thought they would receive is actually less than that\u2014it\u2019s too late.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn having that cost available upfront, there is both explicit and implicit cost available to consumers, and then they can make an informed choice. These are the kinds of things that we want to explore in the select committee process. I also know, as an immigrant myself, that migrant families do send money to their families in their own countries where they have come from. From my connection in the Pacific communities, I know that for Pacific communities, for many, many families, it\u2019s not a matter of choice; it\u2019s an obligation. Most of these families I know have to regularly send money to their families in their Island countries. If there is a big event happening, anything in the family that happens, then they have to send more than the usual amount they would send.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000926\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESometimes it\u2019s the frequency: there are times they have to send that money. Even if this fee is small, if you add that up, it can become a reasonable amount. That definitely needs to be looked into. Another example is recognised seasonal workers. We have so many of our Pacific Island people coming and working here\u2014if I take the example of our viticulture sector, people are coming here from Vanuatu and other Pacific countries, and they are working here and sending money on a regular basis. We need to take all that into consideration and we want to make this process fair. We want to look at it in the select committee stage and see if there is something that we can do to make this process fairer. It is about transparency of the fee, the actual cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000927\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOverall, it looks like a very reasonable policy intent, but we really want to see what the real-world evidence is, and if this is something that we need to do, we will decide after the select committee process. The ACT Party is supporting the first reading of this bill. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u002242891266f9789e8336aed8b84827d57c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000928\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002242891266f9789e8336aed8b84827d57c\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (21:49)\u003C/span\u003E: Malo. Fa\u2019afetai lava, Mr Speaker. I rise to speak on behalf of New Zealand First on this Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill, designed to make fee transparency for international money transfers transparent, which I think is wonderful. I just had the chance to reflect on an experience I had working for the Hon Fiame Naomi Mata\u2019afa when she was the Minister for Women, Community and Social Development in Samoa. I met a wonderful man, the wonderful Afamasaga Toleafoa, who is now the ambassador for Samoa in New Zealand. I was to work with Afamasaga on this village development project and institutional strengthening, and he thought, \u201CWell, who\u2019s this P\u0101lagi coming over here to help us out with this? We\u2019ll just have to school him a little bit.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000929\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022587d574de1174371be09e431d9060e87\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225ef4dd6be90d9fc73f6d5a0860636790\u0022\u003ECameron Brewer\u003C/span\u003E: Little white guy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000930\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224a29ba270e3468160bd7bd4c06079c43\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: Ha! Yeah, \u201CWho\u2019s this guy?\u201D He opened with a good question for me. He said to me, \u201CWhat do you think the major export from Samoa is?\u201D Of course, I thought, \u201CWell, it\u2019s got to be tourism, doesn\u2019t it?\u201D, and he said, \u201CNo, by a long way, it\u2019s remittances. We export people and they send money home, and that is the biggest export we have from Samoa.\u201D Of course, this is the same thing around many of the Pacific Island nations\u2014exactly the same situation. It\u2019s not just those that are living here\u2014and thank you, Parmjeet, for bringing up the fact that this is a cultural thing; that these remittances are sent home to help the family when they are actually living here as well, but we\u2019ve got the recognised seasonal employee workers who are also tripping backwards and forwards to their home nation and they have to transfer their money home.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000931\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, this is crazy: some of the fees that they have to pay are ridiculous and it\u2019s just unfair. I thank the member Arena for bringing up some of the examples, especially one grandfather, which, you know, reached right in there. That wasn\u2019t nice. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000932\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to turn to the chair of the Finance and Expenditure Committee and commend him for the work that the committee has done\u2014and Arena is on that committee for part of the time\u2014around the banking inquiry and looking at all those things that matter in financial services, such as the Financial Markets Conduct Amendment, where we\u2019re going to give more power to the Financial Markets Authority\u2014fabulous. However, the Financial Markets Authority has no authority in any of the Pacific Islands and so this leaves us with a little dilemma. How do we actually attend to those people who are our citizens and our workers and ensure that they get a fair deal in this process?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000933\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother thing that came out of our banking inquiry is the kind of nature of what Payments NZ serves in those transactions. Payments NZ is like the live wire that runs between all of the payments within New Zealand. Internationally, now, of course, you can use things like Revolut or Wise, travel wherever you want to go in the world and you\u2019ve got access to all these different currencies, no matter what, at a very reduced fee, and nowhere near the price of what you would pay if you go through your bank. However, this service is not available in Samoa. Wise can\u2019t get a bank account there, so what we\u2019ve got now is a block in the system, which is unfair. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000934\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn respect of what the honourable member from the National Party said in terms of all the work we\u2019re doing in the financial markets and financial services, this bill is actually complementary to what we\u2019re trying to achieve through those efforts. I think we need to give it some time; we need to take it through select committee. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI commend Arena Williams, the member from the other side, for this bill because it looks at fairness and equality. As you know, New Zealand First has a heart for the Pacific communities and the Pacific region, and we just want those things to be an outcome of the select committee process so we get to hear all of the people that are affected by this transaction. We commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022 data-id=\u00224708d499884e7fd9c974a005571dd677\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000936\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224708d499884e7fd9c974a005571dd677\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON (Labour\u2014Christchurch East) (21:54)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. It is a pleasure to stand and take a call on this bill, the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill. Now, there\u2019s been quite a lot of talk about exactly what this bill is, but, essentially, what this bill is about is fairness. It\u2019s a bill about making sure that when people who have come to New Zealand and who have worked very hard and need to, in a lot of cases, transfer money back home to family members there, can do that without being charged ridiculous penalties or fees on top of those funds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000937\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been great tonight to hear from Arena Williams, who brought this bill to the House, but also to hear from colleagues around the House from quite different political perspectives who all see that, despite their different viewpoints, the concept of fairness when it comes to people being allowed to move their money from one place to the next is an important thing that can unite almost all of us. Tonight, in the House, the one political party who is not going to support this bill is the National Party; the same National Party who promised to take action on the cost of living and have failed and have made it worse and are now not wanting to do anything to address the lack of fairness in the transferring of funds for people and families and communities across New Zealand. I think that is embarrassing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000938\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022ab32b09663ea48b199aa59e4d88f77e4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221b7a0c77d0c6359d277e8ea1c7d3446d\u0022\u003ETim Costley\u003C/span\u003E: Did you vote for tax relief? Did you vote for it or against it? Voted against tax relief.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000939\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e641dc4bf8aa41b0bd8a29676c8ba9a6\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ceb1b2028cacbd6b51b234ce62a35a0d\u0022\u003EREUBEN DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I think it is shameful, and I think that the National Party should be absolutely embarrassed and should be making noise in support of this bill rather than general barrage. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000940\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002261cbf522ff60550bd9b966bdb959dbe8\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Teanau Tuiono)\u003C/span\u003E: This debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000941\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000942\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.56 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id2026040198743b50792cff0260000943\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis early draft is automatically published - it is not yet complete and reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"