"\u003C!DOCTYPE html\u003E\u003Chtml xmlns:xlink=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1999/xlink\u0022 xmlns:xsi=\u0022http://www.w3.org/2007/XMLSchema-instance\u0022 xmlns:mml=\u0022http://www.w3.org/1998/Math/MathML\u0022\u003E\n  \u003Chead\u003E\n    \u003CMETA http-equiv=\u0022Content-Type\u0022 content=\u0022text/html; charset=utf-16\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cmeta name=\u0022viewport\u0022 content=\u0022width=device-width, initial-scale=1\u0022\u003E\n  \u003C/head\u003E\n  \u003Cbody style=\u0022font-family:sans-serif; font-size:100%;\u0022\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000000\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002295085c1c4c62368adfb2ae412d6fadfb\u0022\u003EWednesday, 29 April 2026\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000001\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EThe Speaker\u003C/span\u003E took the Chair at 2 p.m.\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000002\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022db724ebf65bdac384b71e80db03668ac\u0022\u003EStart of Sitting Day\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000003\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00225ddabbf0ddb82df8b844a5bdc706a27f\u0022\u003EKarakia/Prayers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u00227e8c6fa87991696aba9237ca23187f6e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000004\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00227e8c6fa87991696aba9237ca23187f6e\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Assistant Speaker) (14:00)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE te Atua kaha rawa, ka tuku whakamoemiti atu m\u0101tou, m\u014D ng\u0101 karakia kua waihotia mai ki runga i a m\u0101tou. Ka waiho i \u014D m\u0101tou p\u0101nga whaiaro katoa ki te taha. Ka mihi m\u0101tou ki te K\u012Bngi, me te inoi atu m\u014D te \u0101rahitanga i roto i \u014D m\u0101tou whakaaroarohanga, kia m\u014Dhio ai, kia whakaiti ai t\u0101 m\u0101tou whakahaere i ng\u0101 take o te Whare nei, m\u014D te oranga, te maung\u0101rongo, me te aroha o Aotearoa. \u0100mene.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000005\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EAlmighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the King and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom and humility, for the welfare, peace, and compassion of New Zealand. Amen.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000006\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00220d3212fcfb6bc21f3e177a73ac3aa980\u0022\u003EPresentation\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000007\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b713d20a3a580427396bc8248819e315\u0022\u003EPetitions\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000008\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d4253d85557684692b0ca9a9b620b948\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Three petitions have been delivered to the Clerk for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000009\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227dadabe515f1ab3cd4b5a28292e9c4be\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:01): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000010\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003EPetition of \u00C1ine Kelly-Costello on behalf of Migrants Against the Acceptable Standard of Health Aotearoa requesting that the House abolish the Acceptable Standard of Health immigration requirements\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000011\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Joanne Klaui requesting that the House urge New Zealand Post to keep the Totara Park Post centre open, and the \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000012\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL1\u0022\u003Epetition of Live Ocean requesting that the House prohibit bottom trawling on seamounts in New Zealand, the issuing of permits for New Zealand vessels that allow bottom trawling on seamounts in the high seas, and phase out other forms of bottom trawling.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000013\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220f0616807e089a054e65c15c74619185\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Those petitions stand referred to the Petitions Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000014\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227635d5a95e6a69d6245ff70307e09aef\u0022\u003EPapers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000015\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba679cf2ef8d197dc067ce981cf2648e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: A paper has been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000016\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a7510e532ee1e78ceea9f36fca827252\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:01): \u003C/span\u003ENotification of the date for the general election 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000017\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223d4c1223230fc8170bcfe3b9e23e83f6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That paper is published under the authority of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000018\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226ff798534a6340d42374d12d5aa57be6\u0022\u003ESelect Committee Reports\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000019\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b85505cabf55e2b524eb556ebdf96fca\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Two select committee reports have been delivered for presentation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000020\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002220b89ed8f4a948fc83cc7f2c75614f1c\u0022\u003ECLERK (14:01): \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000021\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003EReport of the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee on the briefing on non-tariff barriers, and the\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000022\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItemSL2\u0022\u003Ereport of the Petitions Committee on the petition of Tu Chapman.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000023\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231da6a77cb24e70963f5c62ab4ca2a7a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The briefing is set down for consideration. Since no bills are introduced, the House comes to oral questions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000024\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c8633296e0d3984bf3d36be83c9fa6c5\u0022\u003EOral Questions to Ministers\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000025\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002291558ab19bea6e258b0ddeaac06b4649\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000026\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227a6bb1925f0495d5961180761a0a11ec\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 1\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u0022496511585722d5502787163d127e5916\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000027\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022496511585722d5502787163d127e5916\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EE tautoko ana ia i ng\u0101 k\u014Drero me ng\u0101 mahi katoa a t\u014Dna K\u0101wanatanga?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000028\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDoes he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u0022b82db54f260659a115ade966073242c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000029\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b82db54f260659a115ade966073242c7\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000030\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022381b13c2a125989bc03a82a5ecaf0fc2\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the definition of a UNESCO World Heritage Site that \u201CWorld Heritage Sites are places recognised as having \u2018outstanding universal value\u2019. They are \u2026 deemed significant for their historical, artistic, or scientific importance.\u201D; if so, why is it appropriate to mine in these places?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000031\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ca2b5ba59618a85d7fb94137a3b94d7f\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: In answer to the first part of the question, yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000032\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c506b4d4c2ee0a5a1fb5d158c24b7e92\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: How does he justify granting a prospecting permit in one of only three of New Zealand\u2019s UNESCO World Heritage Sites?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000033\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c4a7cdc93b0c7dbebef9f3a1bc2cf11\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we are very interested in developing more mining in this country because we need critical minerals to make the clean, green transition. That\u2019s what we\u2019ve got in this country. We\u2019re going to continue to explore them and develop all our natural resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000034\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c548548b067ef604caaa10c43b60208\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with the statement of his Minister for Resources regarding mining in a UNESCO World Heritage Site that \u201Cwe\u2019re going to have to do trade-off politics.\u201D, and, if so, does he think New Zealanders are OK with his Government desecrating a place without\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000035\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022795afb5c42614f9aae8cb7ae44de7ff9\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No. Reword it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000036\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b702e0cabf86c7c99af269e4714dcfa1\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Does he think New Zealanders are OK with his Government trading off a place with outstanding universal value for short-term, private profits?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000037\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a92440ea17a66bf864c8947374cd7595\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I know New Zealanders are not OK about is not having high-paying jobs in regional New Zealand and actually banning oil and gas and mining projects that ends up having Kiwis leave New Zealand to go to Australia to access those jobs in those sectors. We are going to make this country wealthier and more prosperous for everybody, and that means using our resources.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000038\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225fce89228e52a513107ce3e92c432942\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: Has his Government departed from the commitment of previous Governments first made under Sir John Key in 2012 that there would be no mining in World Heritage areas like the spectacular Te W\u0101hipounamu?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000039\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d1e18503e136ef1e43542fc19955d073\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Again, we will find the balance, but we are prioritising economic growth in this country. We are going to get things done, we\u2019re going to get this economy moving, and we\u2019re going to offer high-paying jobs to people in regional New Zealand. That\u2019s a good thing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000040\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c10677b8d1c84eae60a38078f3e8f2b5\u0022\u003EHon Marama Davidson\u003C/span\u003E: If he accepts that mining is appropriate in a globally recognised World Heritage area, is there any piece of supposedly protected land in Aotearoa that is not open to mining?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000041\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227adea66134419a9f300d79646fa956bb\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Just remember, 30 percent of this country is in the Department of Conservation estate. We have very important national parks of very high environmental quality, and we\u2019ll continue to protect those, obviously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000042\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002246214e2341a5044f10b7b18ded2c5ba2\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000043\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022bf7239e0582350a87c487ceddcebfc22\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 2\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022 data-id=\u00229b0f4726aaa7f78b7468bc4e9bb4f7ce\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000044\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b0f4726aaa7f78b7468bc4e9bb4f7ce\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the Opposition) (14:05)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EPrime Minister\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by all of his Government\u2019s statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022 data-id=\u002248b2f12a5d18b777d5ecc9ee1a688b6b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000045\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002248b2f12a5d18b777d5ecc9ee1a688b6b\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON (Prime Minister) (14:05)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and particularly our income tax relief, raising thresholds for working New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000046\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7fdec3f7efd640bcedaab6f071f9d4f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much does the average New Zealand family spend in their weekly grocery shop right now, and is that more or less than when he became the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000047\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c4ec6d6a9488f61687708f91d672d9ae\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, actually, food inflation\u2019s up 3.4\u00A0percent from memory; it was up 12.5 percent under his Government. So food price inflation exists, and as I said to him yesterday, deflation is not good for an economy, but food price inflation\u2014there\u2019s more to do, but at 3.4 percent it\u2019s better than 12.5 percent, which he delivered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000048\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea24b6e458a9a17992a9c58dfea371d3\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Well, does he stand by his statement in July 2024 that \u201Cfood prices are falling really quickly\u201D; if so, which food prices have fallen really quickly in the time he\u2019s been Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000049\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f563c1956315d6426daa193200dbb2cf\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I said, the general point about food inflation is it went up to 12.5 percent under his leadership; under our Government, it\u2019s up over the last year 3.4 percent. That\u2019s a good outcome for New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000050\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227021ae5ae4d64611e2403052cd47321f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much does the average New Zealand family spend on their monthly power bill right now, and is that more or less than when he became Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000051\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022294ac860f579793e642f3534ec12ca76\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, that\u2019s why I would say to the member, get in behind repealing the oil and gas ban, get in behind the fast-track legislation that\u2019s generating an increase in renewables in this country. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] You know, you can cry crocodile tears, but actually back some stuff and actually come out and declare what you stand for. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000052\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022170442d0b1b287568b28ecf3e41e31d6\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s enough commentary, from both sides. Questions are heard and answered in silence. Answers should be given the courtesy of getting out before they\u2019re barraged down.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000053\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259720bc7c2b3201b1a855d7fff69995f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much does the average New Zealand family spend on home, contents, and car insurance each month, and is that more or less than when he became the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000054\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002287bd1fb63879758dfe928c9ecfe4d1bf\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, again, I\u2019ll just say to the member, if he actually cares about the impact of the cost of living on New Zealanders, why doesn\u2019t he propose some policy to actually come to the table with? Why doesn\u2019t he support the rates cap? Because that\u2019s a very big driver of the cost of living for New Zealanders. Why doesn\u2019t he support fast track? Why doesn\u2019t he repeal the oil and gas ban with us? And why doesn\u2019t he actually just support extending prescriptions, saving healthcare costs for regular New Zealanders? There\u2019s a lot that you could be doing, but you\u2019re not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000055\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022154b57e439dbf1c6f0b5ff2fa97a4252\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How much does the average tradie or sole trader spend filling up their ute right now, and is that more or less than when he became the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000056\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002217d519dca9d7ccf635c3086cd2a8ac2c\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the good news is that we abolished the ute tax. Remember that one? That was a special. We abolished the Auckland Regional Fuel Tax, if you remember that one, so it\u2019s a lot less than it would have been if he\u2019d stayed in power. We\u2019ve actually cancelled Labour\u2019s fuel excise hikes that were planned. We\u2019ve kept that in place frozen, but we\u2019re progressing a rates cap\u2014get on board with that. Why don\u2019t you support that very simple thought and idea.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000057\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223297620081181e0c53c52b84b7744696\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: How many more people are unemployed now compared to when he became the Prime Minister?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000058\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022791aa42d58cd6cf351e8030930829966\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve explained to the member before, the rule of economics is that if you increase Government spending by 84 percent, you drive inflation up to a 32-year high, you have 13 interest rate rises, you put the economy into slow down, if not recession, and people lose their jobs. But in the last quarter, we are pleased to see that we\u2019ve created thousands of new jobs for New Zealanders. That\u2019s good, but we\u2019re going to get the economy growing and that\u2019s how we get people back into work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000059\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f464069fb298a1329adf8aadfc533d4\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Is the reason he can\u2019t answer a single one of those questions about the day-to-day reality New Zealand families face under his Government and instead resorts to blame and excuses, that he doesn\u2019t know the answers or that he just doesn\u2019t care?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000060\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ce567f12c0042acecec1d5f21e364e6\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000061\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3ea83a5d72c029f37b1e8d41d7013c9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, well, I\u2019ll tell you, we have done more to support working\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000062\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268a2e1fb84f5dcbf2ad11a5113018041\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Sorry, there\u2019s a point of order, the Hon Shane Jones.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000063\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279b615413ac3c3740e939d49563b3fac\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, it\u2019s a well-established tradition in the House that when moving from a general question to finicky pettifogging detail, you cannot expect the Prime Minister to have that detail. It\u2019s laid out in Speakers\u2019 rulings 197/2 and 197/4. Why are you allowing that level of exactitude to take place?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000064\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002207ec0c5035d142077283d3fa089db230\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I simply disagree with you with the interpretation of the question. I think the Prime Minister is well capable of answering a question as you describe it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000065\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cd896dd87395460c8de853bbf60dbf66\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e836b609c363a68d224cba8212bb45c9\u0022\u003ERt Hon CHRISTOPHER LUXON\u003C/span\u003E: Well, what I can say to the House and to the member is that, actually, increasing taxes, as the Labour Government seems to have communicated to the Fitch credit rating agency, is not the way forward. That is going to be punishment on working and middle-income working New Zealanders\u2014it\u2019s a very simple fact. We now have stable rents in this country instead of them going up $180 a week. Is the member going to reverse interest deductibility? Is the member going to reduce the brightline test? Is the member going to increase the tax rate? Let\u2019s hear some answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000066\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022efb3132c9b398ef4d7da1d7e23e623d0\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I seek leave to answer some of those questions that the Prime Minister\u2019s just asked me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000067\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220161025d5b8246df3d0937c95ed25c85\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I would put the leave, but it would interfere with the prescription of Standing Orders, which makes this question time\u2014Opposition ask questions; Government answers them. If they answer in a rhetorical way, that\u2019s probably a result of the question that was asked in the first place. Are you finished?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000068\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00221eee191991284f59b9f8bb4ea78cbd10\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3055cc1697eb72b0bd144fedcfc406d\u0022\u003ERt Hon Chris Hipkins\u003C/span\u003E: Yes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000069\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002235d1a871790ab6b327643d4f1f9f8e1f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, all good. We\u2019ll move to question No. 3.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000070\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00227de7c2dd3631aed09df92cef2dd8c4a2\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000071\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002291c8008d93f46fda6c061034538f6131\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 3\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0296403220ee5efb3c6984a7c6c1d69\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000072\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0296403220ee5efb3c6984a7c6c1d69\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie) (14:10)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: What recent reports has she seen on the economy?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u002214419b6494fd8b04221bcf7dddb83fdb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000073\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002214419b6494fd8b04221bcf7dddb83fdb\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Last week, Moody\u2019s Ratings released its latest review of New Zealand. It confirmed that New Zealand\u2019s sovereign credit rating would remain at triple A\u2014the highest possible rating\u2014but it revised the outlook from stable to negative. Moody\u2019s highlights that current global economic uncertainty presents downside risks to growth in New Zealand while inflation pressures persist. It says these factors may delay the Government\u2019s fiscal consolidation\u2014that is, getting the Government\u2019s books back to surplus and bending the debt curve from going up to going down. This comes after Fitch Ratings also changed its outlook for New Zealand to negative.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000074\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022665802dc628d51b1209ba1b791942967\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What do these recent changes in outlook indicate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000075\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228f6a843a1572a34f154df903d8d4e8b0\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: What these changes indicate is a risk to both ratings. Moody\u2019s and Fitch will be watching developments closely to determine whether to move New Zealand\u2019s ratings one notch lower, or to maintain the rating and revise our outlook back to stable. I\u2019m advised that Moody\u2019s typically shifts to a negative outlook when they see at least a one-in-three chance that a downgrade could occur and that an outlook is generally resolved over 12 to 18 months. This gives time to monitor how the fiscal position is evolving. Budget 2026 will be released on 28 May, and members will see the latest Treasury forecasts then.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000076\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223ddd6ed3aa1ff95a1b1d1cbaebe3a065\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: What do these ratings reviews mean for the Government\u2019s fiscal approach?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002296f4de07a86efd4f8b4d0b32c1d5512f\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: These reviews support the Government\u2019s fiscal strategy of keeping a tight rein on spending, getting the operating balance back in surplus, and getting debt under control, all within the next few years. Being on negative outlook is, however, a warning that we need to stay on this course and demonstrate progress, even when global events make it more challenging, and it\u2019s a warning to others who might want to spend more and borrow more that ratings agencies are watching carefully. The interest cost on Government debt is already around $9 billion a year. A credit rating downgrade would increase this interest bill further if debt increased, and even more so if New Zealand faced higher interest rates from being considered a riskier country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000078\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f91d18497bd37a2a43be61dde4d7577\u0022\u003EGreg Fleming\u003C/span\u003E: How can fiscal consolidation be achieved?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000079\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229340db0d6051493982fc3db81fee975a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8aad15022a84130da313f0f096b2469\u0022\u003EChl\u00F6e Swarbrick\u003C/span\u003E: Fair tax.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000080\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002238679bd8530bce91aaa4e7093d7d8f7a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: There are two possible fiscal strategies available for consolidation, as the member Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick points out. The parties opposite me prefer tax. Our approach is to keep a lid on spending, rather than increase taxes. Fitch makes this point explicitly in its review, saying that there is broad-based consensus across the political spectrum towards fiscal consolidation, although the consolidation strategy may vary. It says that the current Government focuses on expenditure constraint, and that is true. Over the last two Budgets, the Government has made a total of $44 billion worth of savings and reprioritisation. On the other hand, Fitch says that others would emphasise revenue measures to reduce the deficit\u2014that means increasing taxes. People who have those plans should tell the country which taxes they\u2019ll be increasing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000081\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002265d67c53243c0606411b025e2e447ed3\u0022\u003ERMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000082\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022cf738dfebe146258f6bfe927fa02ad0a\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 4\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u0022f443579257a0011c3bd0a0993f4c4ee3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000083\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f443579257a0011c3bd0a0993f4c4ee3\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (14:14)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister responsible for RMA Reform\u003C/span\u003E: What assurances, if any, can he give to the people of T\u0101maki Makaurau that his RMA reforms will not impact the protection of the Wait\u0101kere Ranges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2138f9b89e9f995810957d65f1cfc13\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000084\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2138f9b89e9f995810957d65f1cfc13\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister responsible for RMA Reform) (14:14)\u003C/span\u003E: There is special legislation in place for the Wait\u0101kere Ranges\u2014the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act 2008. The Act requires Auckland Council to give effect to its purpose and objectives when making plans under the Resource Management Act (RMA) that affect the area and to have particular regard to that purpose and objectives when making resource consent decisions in the area. The Planning Bill and Natural Environment Bill, which will replace the RMA, are currently before the Environment Committee for consideration. When those bills were introduced, it was acknowledged that not all consequential amendments to other Acts were included, and the committee, as I understand it, has been made aware of that fact. To maintain the intent of the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act under the new planning system, consequential amendments will be needed, and the Environment Committee will be considering that as part of its scrutiny of the bills.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000085\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223cd15f97a1ddd819888de23936f79b8d\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: How can the Minister justify advancing planning legislation that effectively overrides the protections of the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act 2008, and what specific safeguards, if any, will remain to prevent irreversible environmental degradation in the Wait\u0101kere Ranges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000086\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b03ffe7279483722d63d63e794dbb724\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I suggest the member, at the end of the night, goes back and reads the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E, because if she was listening, she would find out that that\u2019s not what I\u2019m doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000087\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c90e7f7f0b2a86bd0e74ff98a879fa84\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: What weight has the Minister given to the strong opposition from local communities and mana whenua who are concerned that his RMA reform will undermine the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act 2008, and why are these concerns not currently reflected in the Planning Bill and Natural Environment Bill?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000088\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c74aba6ccd5530051a1850a109853156\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Again, I gave a pretty comprehensive answer to the primary question, which was that there are a range of consequential amendments required\u2014there\u2019s around 100. It\u2019s not just about the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act, it\u2019s about 100 other pieces of legislation that require consequential amendments, which the select committee will be considering. In relation to the first part of the question, my understanding is that there has been a range of submissions in that regard to the Environment Committee. The bill is in the hands of the committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000089\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9af9e9560a5c654a576f277249277cf\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any chance that these changes might allow families with a horse paddock in Henderson, where they\u2019ve been trying to build homes for decades, to actually provide those homes that would do a lot more for mana whenua and many others complaining than any of the carping we\u2019ve heard in this question so far?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000090\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c611457eb10e6ec04c5f7091d1a8ee75\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It is true that I have emails\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000091\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022083a816abbb847f0a99aff178b1bbba2\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224f2c21999d5034b14607823a3ebd5248\u0022\u003EHon Carmel Sepuloni\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s true he doesn\u2019t want any houses in his electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000092\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e0e03ec17b9080e8fe974b0cd3887b3b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, that\u2019s just\u2014not quite so interfering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000093\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225159440bae6fb66dd98ee4cb18c0207c\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s not true, either. It is true that I have had a number of emails around the Wait\u0101kere Ranges Heritage Area Act seeking that it be entrenched in law. I\u2019ve also had emails from people who actually live there who wish to do simple things with their property, like subdivide to put another house on, who find themselves unable to do that. What\u2019s important is that the select committee\u2014as I\u2019ve said three times now\u2014work its way through that, consider the consequential amendments made, and I look forward to the report back to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000094\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d0a455f90d2fb49bdb01604dacd56f95\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: If protections are weakened and environmental harm follows, will the Minister accept responsibility for any irreversible damage to the Wait\u0101kere Ranges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000095\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e6067e2f926bface4b75f0606f535394\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That question is highly speculative. There might be a different way that the member could ask that question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000096\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b3bb4fdd78f792bfa311c6e97b60c0c8\u0022\u003EOriini Kaipara\u003C/span\u003E: Should the protections be weakened in any way, shape, or form, will the Minister accept responsibility for any irreversible damage to the Wait\u0101kere Ranges?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000097\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c89d4c63a23abb1d52bff8a70b7f63e3\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: If the Government\u2019s planning reforms work as intended, I will take responsibility for the abundant development opportunities that will land in this country. I will take responsibility for the renewable energy that will be far easier to build\u2014the windfarms that don\u2019t take six years to build. I will take responsibility for infrastructure projects not tied up in endless red tape to build transmission and roads and rail projects. I will take responsibility for the prosperity that we have been denied as a country because of the straightjacket of the RMA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000098\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002264dfbba846b326d610408bb809cb1286\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: Supplementary? [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000099\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022be951188991ea14c47d650710e91711f\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsTerm\u0022 style=\u0022font-style: italic\u0022\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E The Hon David Seymour, and no one else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000100\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022699336ad3c1542c8058b7147d78fd295\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsTerm\u0022 style=\u0022font-style: italic\u0022\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E Does he also anticipate taking responsibility for far more development opportunity created for M\u0101ori than the M\u0101ori Party could ever dream of creating?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000101\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022576ace79bbd1eeb9cc8aaf0f9cbf759a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsTerm\u0022 style=\u0022font-style: italic\u0022\u003E:\u003C/span\u003E No, no. The Minister has got no responsibility for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002216ce4075afe69d09f92394bd8cbefd24\u0022\u003ERegional Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000103\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00228ddbe01af6e666a198f58d09051d9a93\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 5\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000104\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022534fded93e415fbed8a4f609745d1300\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000105\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002231b6f2c931d32ec64b0966bc2145252d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: When the House is ready to give you the respect of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u00225c0253b275ac286bc2650f271ce2c5ae\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000106\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225c0253b275ac286bc2650f271ce2c5ae\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (14:20)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Regional Development\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has he made?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022 data-id=\u002222780644161e720aa75693fe47845562\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000107\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002222780644161e720aa75693fe47845562\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES (Minister for Regional Development) (14:20)\u003C/span\u003E: Obviously, we have already announced the recommissioning of the 100 million litre tank and the diesel that will go into that tank, but we are also pursuing a strategy with a suitable, legislatively speaking, and a high-quality large event to lay out a road map and a strategy for hydrogen. That is something that will join the host of other announcements I\u2019ve made in terms of geothermal, nuclear fusion, and oil and gas. We are going, in our regions, to ensure that we have the supply of energy by using our regional resources, including hydrogen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000108\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c7b744f82fa2866d948c53a0f8e84f53\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Does New Zealand have potential for hydrogen being a fuel of choice?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000109\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022758dc5629d5004d48ae1c9ddbcf0cadd\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Being very interested in clean, green outcomes, I think it\u2019s very important that we join with the different stakeholders in our community and explore the role that hydrogen can play boosting our fuel resilience, our energy resilience, coming off the afflictions associated with the Persian Gulf military conflict. It is important, however, that when people apply for innocuous prospecting permits, they are not pilloried, they are not cancelled, and they are not harassed by opponents to mining when they are legally entitled to go and get an innocuous permit to learn about the potential of hydrogen and other minerals on the Department of Conservation estate\u2014and watch this space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000110\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022701aaec901d77758cec8b97a8ff46067\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I just remind members that filming inside the House is not something that\u2019s permitted. Andy Foster.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000111\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250da2448cddf31b4dd59900211c97560\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: No, that was the last one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000112\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e431284c344c58c597f62a69fa065d1\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, no more questions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000113\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022050ff8c4a5ec634fc3b85dfd4104dd18\u0022\u003EHon SHANE JONES\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, you can give me another one.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000114\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226e8237ecad44e67bf2f7c7b1566adafc\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Andy Foster. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] OK.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000115\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022277b1729b1b19c4f4bbce159b23a6105\u0022\u003EAndy Foster\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019m told that we\u2019d run out of numbers if I did that, so we\u2019re leaving it there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000116\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022382f9b5dcdccdb194c16cc76b08d5cbe\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Three-second rule, son\u2014missed it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000117\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00221e225c10dbeae0b972b714d92c31d8d4\u0022\u003EFinance\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000118\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022a43c9c3e5005fd9fb176b0c2390a7507\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 6\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022a2895760f1fe09a90b710b5d6ceb4733\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000119\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a2895760f1fe09a90b710b5d6ceb4733\u0022\u003EHon BARBARA EDMONDS (Labour\u2014Mana) (14:22)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Finance\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022fj\u0022\u003EVinaka vakalevu\u003C/span\u003E, Mr Speaker. Does she stand by all her statements and actions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022753db34033ccbeac715061f74f4fa383\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000120\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022753db34033ccbeac715061f74f4fa383\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (14:22)\u003C/span\u003E: In context, yes, including those statements I made in my discussions with the Fitch Ratings agency. I can assure members that I said the same thing to them in private as I say to New Zealanders in public.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000121\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022886d4a7bc937173b8db56f8335938540\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Was she in the room when Barbara Edmonds met with Fitch?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000122\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a6bc30fd94a2926226c38e2ea6ceb4ff\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: No, but I wish I\u2019d been a fly on that wall, because what it led the ratings agency to report was that the Opposition intends to achieve fiscal consolidation through additional revenue measures. I was surprised to read this because, of course, the capital gains tax which the Labour Party have announced, they\u2019ve already said all of that money has been stitched up for doctors appointments.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000123\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f37ee9c00397af2e9546f69018457aad\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, good\u2014don\u2019t push too far.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000124\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220bc09e1d65b92a743e6678b99f77d7d2\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: So where would the extra revenue come from? Only you know, Barb. Good luck fixing your fiscal hole.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000125\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221033555c7f307ca06f7f941c86c58ad8\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Are New Zealanders currently experiencing a cost of living crisis?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000126\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002204bdf5a1f0d77c30e348ff5b33e34b40\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, and events in the Middle East are playing a very significant role. We have seen the price of diesel almost double since that conflict began. Diesel is a fuel that powers not only vehicles but freight and a number of inputs into our economy, and it is correct to say that that will have an effect on the cost of living for New Zealanders. On the other hand, the effect of the events in the Middle East has shown that in the past couple of weeks we\u2019ve seen that diesel price come down about 55c, which demonstrates that it is in all of our interests to see the conflict in the Middle East resolved as soon as possible.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000127\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228c19c219c08eac581c48c290c884a1d4\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: How many families have actually received the full $250 that she promised them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000128\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aa1a522c4fc873606d3ab89d13e8058e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I\u2019ve set out to that member several times\u2014and I hope this time she\u2019ll listen\u2014National committed that the sum of our tax policies would deliver up to $250 a fortnight to families. We delivered on every single one of the commitments that underpin that $250. Up to $150 of that would be delivered by the FamilyBoost payment\u2014and I have been advised that more than 10,000 families have received that payment in a fortnight\u2014and up to $100 of that would be contributed through our changes to personal income tax thresholds and changes to Working for Families credits. Now, that member opposed those tax reductions and opposed that additional income for New Zealanders. I\u2019m proud that we delivered them actual cash into their bank accounts to help with the cost of living.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000129\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e21952f9a5b6aee9f7849e44bd450030\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Does she stand by her statement that \u201CThis Government has got your back.\u201D when 70 percent of workers didn\u2019t get a pay rise above inflation in the last year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000130\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d419136fefea0863bd7c0a234303b51e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, because I\u2019m not cooking up any secret taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000131\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223d2742e1d5da4db8985354d2641589c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f25d1473bb8bffe1a0f2f97b9b78959c\u0022\u003EHon Barbara Edmonds\u003C/span\u003E: Is it having New Zealanders\u2019 back in a cost of living crisis when her Government is increasing the everyday costs through her gas tax, increases to car registration, the reinstatement of prescription fees, increases in line charges, and increases in council rates?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000132\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226f23dc855db7ac8de3b7c820d633732a\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: To pick one, we are introducing legislation to this House to cap rates increases, unlike that member who, again, opposes yet another practical measure to help with the cost of living. You see, the problem is that that member has an opinion on everything and a policy on nothing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000133\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224c78bb846c2748bbba60aad0a39a44e4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 7, Tim van de Molen. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] Just wait a moment, Mr van de Molen. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] That\u2019s enough. Questions are heard in silence. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000134\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002284cfe4046bdf9b4c5d2f02819565167d\u0022\u003ETrade and Investment\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000135\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022b9c99764b127a9f7f454c58a5252aef3\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 7\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022 data-id=\u002218fd8390c7f6e98aef859376447c14fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000136\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002218fd8390c7f6e98aef859376447c14fc\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato) (14:27)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for Trade and Investment\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcement has the Government made regarding the free-trade agreement with India?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022 data-id=\u0022fc0c0438f67be52466b9e1efec625e33\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000137\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fc0c0438f67be52466b9e1efec625e33\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade and Investment) (14:27)\u003C/span\u003E: On Monday, New Zealand signed a free-trade agreement (FTA) with India in New Delhi. This marks a major step forward in opening up one of the world\u2019s fastest-growing markets for Kiwi exporters to their 1.4 billion consumers. Ninety-five percent of New Zealand\u2019s exports face tariff elimination or reduction, almost the highest of any India FTA, and almost 57 percent of our exports will be duty free on day one, increasing to 82 percent when fully implemented. The New Zealand - India free-trade agreement gives unprecedented access to India for Kiwi goods and services. This means our businesses will be able to sell more and employ more people, thus setting our businesses up to succeed and helping New Zealand with its goal of doubling the value of exports over 10 years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000138\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022df3e6766443b46819410ad4fedf34077\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e83053dd4ab19c74f3fb0de62af0622\u0022\u003EStuart Smith\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will this agreement deliver for businesses and exporters across the Nelson, Tasman, and Kaikoura regions?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000139\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224542ccb79854f5d5b3411de8ace19413\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, many, but in particular, for the New Zealand seafood industry and our top of the South\u2014including Nelson fishers\u2014one of the biggest wins in the agreement is seafood. Right now, New Zealand seafood exporters face tariffs of 33 percent in India but under the FTA, 90 percent of our exports in seafood will move to a zero tariff rate, phased in over seven years. We\u2019ve also, for the first time, had a commitment from India in the FTA that perishable goods will cross their border and be cleared within 24 hours, meaning that fish and mussels and other things we produce will be able to be available to Indian consumers more quickly. The FTA means more high-quality New Zealand seafood will be exported to India, meaning Indian consumers will have choice over Australian and European fish and shellfish. Our seafood is better than theirs; Indians deserve to eat it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000140\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223fe682e7edeb4b21bafe8e3c10ac8a53\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will this agreement deliver for forestry businesses and exporters?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000141\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225470707f538bf22c0759efbe066485fb\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the free-trade agreement is a big win for forestry and wood processors. The agreement delivers immediate tariff elimination on 95 percent of New Zealand\u2019s forestry and wood exports on day one. Australian forestry exports, under their free-trade agreement, increased by 120 percent under their FTA in the first 12 months, while our exports during that period fell. The India - New Zealand FTA levels that playing field and more forestry\u2014including processed timber, where value is added in New Zealand\u2014will go to India, creating more jobs for Kiwis. This is great news for sawmills and wood processors from Northland to the central North Island; certainly Tokoroa, Kawerau, Te Puke, Gisborne, East Coast, all the way to Nelson and many places in between.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000142\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f1dbedbef4b886296d98e30876158a\u0022\u003EKatie Nimon\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will this agreement deliver for the mighty Hawke\u2019s Bay?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000143\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fcbffa377f8bb7432a3822098a08087f\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the Hawke\u2019s Bay, along with the Bay of Plenty, Northland, Nelson, Southland\u2014many parts of New Zealand are powerhouses of horticulture. This agreement delivers real wins for growers, particularly our apple trade. Right now, apples face a 50 percent tariff into India; under this free-trade agreement (FTA), that tariff rate will reduce to 25 percent, with an initial quota of 32,500 tonnes that matches our current apple exports to India. This quota will grow to 45,000 tonnes, or 300\u00A0million apples every year, over the next six years as our exports continue to grow. This is the first time India has included apples in a trade agreement, but it\u2019s not just apples that will benefit: cherries, avocados, blueberries, persimmons also benefit, with full tariff elimination phased in over 10 years, giving our growers confidence to invest and create jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000144\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222a12b14e3fab3d0191d0c3e6c64450b5\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Why sign an FTA which included the phrase, \u201Cnothing in this Agreement shall preclude the adoption by New Zealand of measures it deems necessary to accord more favourable treatment to M\u0101ori\u201D, given that this language runs counter to the coalition Government\u2019s approach that all New Zealanders should be equal under the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000145\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220035ad8506d7c4f1d36ff72fa26edbd2\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, that\u2019s because that language is in many agreements, including the UAE agreement and the EU agreement that that member\u2019s party voted for during this term of Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000146\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222eaa92d33fbc07adf785b90abfecccbc\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order. That last statement is incorrect. Could I ask the Minister to prove what he just said about our party being on that side of that previous agreement on that clause?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000147\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022807134f814df527708484d72baf40ab0\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, if that is the case, there\u2019s a remedy the member should follow and a consequence for the Minister who made the statement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000148\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022dc355e591521f3324580c79ce596d4b3\u0022\u003EM\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000149\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022aa3ea98282babc12bb9157b70841cc53\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 8\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022 data-id=\u0022d54a8a873cf092cb6e336b9c84c06f1c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000150\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d54a8a873cf092cb6e336b9c84c06f1c\u0022\u003EHon WILLIE JACKSON (Labour) (14:32)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister for M\u0101ori Development\u003C/span\u003E: Does he support the proposal to cut roles from Te Puni K\u014Dkiri, on top of earlier reductions; if so, why?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022 data-id=\u0022361423adbaed02eba2cef22702a98ea5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000151\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022361423adbaed02eba2cef22702a98ea5\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA (Minister for M\u0101ori Development) (14:32)\u003C/span\u003E: Kia ora. Decisions around staffing levels at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri (TPK) are operational matters and are the responsibility of the Secretary for M\u0101ori Development, as chief executive. The member will be\u2014well, at least should be\u2014aware of section 54 of the Public Service Act 2020, passed when he was a Minister of the Crown, which provides that there is a duty on the CE of agencies like Te Puni K\u014Dkiri to act independently on employment matters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000152\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226d739b3cf287bc41d6a6f671b6219b12\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Since taking office, how many people have lost their jobs at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000153\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e15e9c8a86f1045f02e988c417e186dd\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I am advised that since around June 2024, there has been a net reduction of 25.4 fulltime-equivalent staff at Te Puni K\u014Dkiri.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000154\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc0355860f82720e1016b0e9969a90c3\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: How can he defend further job cuts when Te Puni K\u014Dkiri has just taken on new monitoring and M\u0101ori-Crown relations functions and is supposed to be holding other agencies to account for their performance for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000155\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222408e88718c44308f7c5b103c8bc9c6e\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: You see, this is partly a question that can help me explore the differences between the member, whose modus operandi and party believe in massive big government and spraying the cash bazooka, and the fiscal prudence that exists on this side of the House. We are not about the quantity of roles through Government but, actually, the quality of advice, and I\u2019m very confident about the quality of the advice that the Ministry of M\u0101ori Development\u2014Te Puni K\u014Dkiri\u2014is providing me.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000156\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224e2e408e52bfb5d0079eb6a30b38c741\u0022\u003EHon Chris Bishop\u003C/span\u003E: Does he believe it is his role as Minister to advocate permanently for the expansion of full-time roles at Government departments he is responsible for, or to actually address M\u0101ori disadvantage and promote M\u0101ori economic development?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000157\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222c0966a018e1d10ec42220bdf3e84e80\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Definitely the latter is my role, and also to support the Ministry of M\u0101ori Development to actually deliver on its statutory role rather than expand all roles for all New Zealanders and all M\u0101ori at the whim of a Minister. That is not my role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000158\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222afde402c66e855e52d88a15114d7690\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Tama Potaka that \u201CAnything less than an increase in power for M\u0101ori would signal yet another failure in respecting the Treaty\u201D, and, if so, how does cutting jobs at TPK achieve this objective?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000159\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224d1e8ba5ea4f6f1b872841f997df784d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member confuses the citation of that great and diligent man Tama Potaka with the number of staff at a single agency, and I recommend that the member talk with Tama Potaka\u2014great guy\u2014at Copperfields after this debate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000160\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022860ab1fa0805a371a6567551aa0428d6\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with David Seymour that population ministries like TPK slow down the business of Government, and, if so, is this the reason why he is slowly cutting staff, to prepare for TPK to be cut altogether?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000161\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241ef7d5a5cb1b8e02e15ffe4ccd35b11\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I recall traversing this matter before; I\u2019m not responsible for the views of David Seymour, and I recommend that the member actually check the record to ensure that that is consistent with what has actually been said by David Seymour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000162\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c2f9be3249b6bab1d5c24225f7db907d\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Is there any evidence that increasing the number of public servants employed in the back office of Government agencies addresses New Zealanders\u2019 cost-of-living or income opportunities?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000163\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224caae10e3154d7cd6c088f7c93b4792d\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: I am aware that there was an increase of about a third in the Public Service between 2017 and 2023, and at this time a number of health and wealth indicators in this country absolutely deteriorated\u2014most appalling for me, indicators such as the 2-year-old immunisation rate of M\u0101ori, which dropped from about 90 percent to below 65 percent. That\u2019s why having targets in place and making sure that we work collaboratively across Government and with the agencies to meet those targets is absolutely important. Might I add and acknowledge the work of Minister Goldsmith and Minister Mitchell, who have seen a reduction in the number of serious persistent young offenders who are M\u0101ori, from 784 to 594 in the last two years. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000164\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e968c1334f0a40bfbd05d661e979ba38\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e9337009650f44e413e587630974d33\u0022\u003EHon Willie Jackson\u003C/span\u003E: Does he admit that the latest job cuts prove the Government\u2019s negative M\u0101ori agenda is ramping up, and for all his rhetoric about thriving wh\u0101nau, the only things thriving under National are more cuts and misery for M\u0101ori?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000165\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002279aa8f85e3c3e0ffd6956cfd54b73560\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000166\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022480afa1b57bbc8fa834ae2e70d9e045f\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Again, the member\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000167\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228a49129337e3454963fe7965673a4b08\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Wait on, there\u2019s a point of order, and I think I can anticipate it, but Mr Jones?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000168\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022725ab5e088b45155519ba322edcb9d8c\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Sir, you know as well as I do that Speakers\u2019 ruling 196 makes that question completely out of order. That\u2019s an unsubstantiated assertion about a negative agenda towards M\u0101ori.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000169\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002288d0a39558a5165b23e81dc38b510d32\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, that is strictly true, but as the member has pointed out, I think, twice in this question time, where I have allowed questions that are of a political nature, political answers are given, and the Minister seemed very capable of doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000170\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229d5b13d601794bb282d99453116ad395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022214a0295d8db50e28798bdcaef2260a2\u0022\u003EHon TAMA POTAKA\u003C/span\u003E: Two or three observations from me: the member again conflates an assumption and an absolute misunderstanding of the intention of this Government to deliver outcomes alongside, with, and for M\u0101ori, whether or not it\u2019s in housing, health, education, or indeed resource management, Treaty settlements, social development, or a range of other matters. Let me tell you a short story: five years ago some relations of people in this House sought to resolve the issues arising over 150 years with the Nelson Tenths and the previous Government absolutely failed to deliver on their aspirations, and it took this Government to actually step up and deal with those concerns, after 150 years. I\u2019m very proud to be part of a Government that has dealt with the issues in the Nelson Tenths and Whakat\u016B situation, and I look forward to seeing members opposite on the day we pass that legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000171\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022422ea0f3ddd5bd0560242dba6c90a080\u0022\u003EAgriculture\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000172\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002283073ac2c664b5bb46ffc9eea4fad911\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 9\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022 data-id=\u00229dd8a714d90413d1410b8dbb93162538\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000173\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dd8a714d90413d1410b8dbb93162538\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei) (14:38)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EAssociate Minister of Agriculture\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcement has the Government made about supporting farmers and growers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u002269b21ef1856243e5eb7bd707e3f07827\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000174\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002269b21ef1856243e5eb7bd707e3f07827\u0022\u003EHon MIKE BUTTERICK (Associate Minister of Agriculture) (14:38)\u003C/span\u003E: On Monday, the Government signed a free-trade agreement (FTA) with India, in New Delhi. This agreement has been described as a once-in-a-lifetime deal, a landmark FTA, and historic. This agreement opens doors and offers further opportunities to our farmers and growers. These are opportunities that have not previously been available. We know that our food and fibre is world class. This agreement will allow these products entry into a new market without significant barriers. This agreement will help grow our export returns and allow our farmers and growers better access to a market of 1.4 billion customers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000175\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022445b7acd2024354bdc20dccddb4a0416\u0022\u003EJoseph Mooney\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will farmers and growers see in the horticulture industry?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000176\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022674f445097b9d03057ddba5d50d35ee3\u0022\u003EHon MIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: I would like to share some fantastic news with the member for Southland, which includes part of the Central Otago region, and let him know what this FTA will look like for some in his local area. Cherry growers, for example, will have tariffs eliminated from the current 33\u00A0percent down to zero over 10\u00A0years. In other parts of the country, kiwifruit growers will also see tariffs eliminated for kiwifruit within quota. This quota is set to grow over six years to anticipate growth in exports from our mighty kiwifruit industry. This makes kiwi exporters more competitive on the world stage. This is nothing but good news for an FTA that will bear fruit for our growers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000177\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022355df3910143ddb7071f475315696308\u0022\u003EMiles Anderson\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will our wine growers and exporters see from this agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000178\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223641d9341f59b685b3d16ad6b7621978\u0022\u003EHon MIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you to the member for Waitaki, who is in an area of high growth for the wine industry. Tariffs on wine will be reduced from 150\u00A0percent to either 25 or 50\u00A0percent, depending on the value of the wine, over 10 years\u2014plus a most favoured nation commitment. The most-favoured nation clause negotiated in our agreement means that additional benefits negotiated with other trading nations must be extended to New Zealand, contingent on our agreement with India entering into force before others with more favourable wine commitments such as the recently concluded EU-India FTA. This will be worth tens of millions of dollars in extra exports for New Zealand businesses, and so we are working hard to make this happen. Cheers to that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000179\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254bb54b896a5de7b802017fb63f61b68\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: What benefits will our beekeepers and apiculture industry see from this agreement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000180\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022243d143ecc584728aa64d6e15ad2ebd6\u0022\u003EHon MIKE BUTTERICK\u003C/span\u003E: One thing we are absolutely sure of is New Zealand m\u0101nuka honey is a premium sought-after product overseas. The good news for Whanganui and other honey-producing regions is that tariffs on m\u0101nuka honey will be cut from 66\u00A0percent to 16.5\u00A0percent over five years. The India free-trade agreement is making New Zealand products, like m\u0101nuka honey, more competitive in an international market, and it offers opportunities that we have not previously had in one of the world\u2019s fastest-growing economies. The beekeepers are buzzing with excitement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000181\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225e6f4a814744c205b05e0baed19a2b56\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 10, Ricardo Men\u00E9ndez March. It\u2019s very rowdy today, so we\u2019ll just wait till the House settles itself and hears your question respectfully in silence.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000182\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00220c6e44d10c789c4b539028a56e63e9b5\u0022\u003EImmigration\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000183\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00222648ddc81f285cf5173b157381aca1ea\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 10\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022af526bf2b9499d6efb8298200a64cd43\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000184\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022af526bf2b9499d6efb8298200a64cd43\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (14:42)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Immigration\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with the Union Network of Migrants that \u201Cmigrants are not disposable workers\u201D; if not, why not?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022 data-id=\u0022b1795fa66511dd2e59339e1397578a59\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000185\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b1795fa66511dd2e59339e1397578a59\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD (Minister of Immigration) (14:42)\u003C/span\u003E: No person is disposable. However, our priority always must be job opportunities for New Zealanders, especially in times of economic challenge. I appreciate that there are some migrants who came to New Zealand for lower-skilled roles who are approaching the end of their visa and wish to remain here. However, it was clear when they came to New Zealand that these were temporary work visas, and it is important that New Zealanders who are seeking work have the opportunity to apply for these jobs when migrants reach the end of their maximum continuous stay.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000186\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ccd902c17c09bea0066d95df9efb1cfa\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the stand-down period, which prevents workers from being able to remain in a job for the long term, contributes to poorer wages, lower working conditions, and poor productivity as a result of employers not being able to retain them?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c351028e222bb7ac421c8dd91c9f5351\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: How the hell is that related to the primary?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000188\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f35015dbe49a1504670ef9bb5aabd159\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, but on this topic\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000189\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a69264ab3dce82d2bc8c979b1f37d572\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Hang on a minute. It relates to the answer given by the Minister, which, perhaps if you look at the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EHansard\u003C/span\u003E later, you\u2019ll see makes the question admissible. Ask the question again, please, Mr Men\u00E9ndez March.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000190\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c799d54d97707a803d50a16bb93671a6\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much. The question was: does she agree that the stand-down period, which prevents workers from being able to remain in a job for the long term, contributes to poor wages, lower working conditions, and poor productivity due to employers not being able to retain these workers?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000191\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226305ac8756042406a2bd9b9c03e2e3c3\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. Sir, that cannot be true. That man is reading off a prepared question which was not related to what her response was, and it\u2019s certainly unrelated to the primary question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000192\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d3eab58f498a213e94c28cb6d63d3aee\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, it\u2019s not\u2014well, the only person who decides whether a question is valid or not is me. Mr Men\u00E9ndez March, please ask the question again.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000193\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225a89d582e04687929da32eef94256486\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree that the stand-down period, which prevents workers from being able to remain in a job in the long term, contributes to poorer wages, lower working conditions, and poor productivity due to employers not being able to retain these workers in the long term?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000194\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022318bb8bf991cb377a087fe1ab19cdcce\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No, I don\u2019t agree with that, but what I do agree with is that it is very important for New Zealanders to be prioritised for jobs, and I\u2019d like to acknowledge the hard work of the Minister for Social Development and Employment, Louise Upston, and the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) for contacting New Zealanders who need work and job opportunities when people who are coming towards the end of their maximum continuous stay are required to leave New Zealand, giving Kiwis access to these jobs.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000195\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a14908c7f16a2f44d916d22c6e2064b8\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she agree with Paul Scott who has been teaching English for speakers of other languages, including pre - International English Language Testing System (IELTS) preparation, in New Zealand for 30 years, that \u201CIELTS, along with many other similar testing systems, especially requiring band 6.5\u201D\u2014this is the case for migrant bus drivers\u2014\u201Care completely inappropriate for establishing the ability to settle in the country.\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000196\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002201a15e826452b2f64d9de69f67096116\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: I do not. This is a standard of English that has been in place since the early 2000s, across multiple Governments, and it does ensure that migrants are able to settle well in New Zealand. I would also make the point that it\u2019s only the primary applicant that has to have that level of English. Their partner and their children do not and it is very important for that person to be able to live and integrate well into New Zealand society, and that is why we have such good levels of settlement in this country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000197\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c460cd4e2518173d37ef4f7f96ae9f02\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Is it not correct that she lifted those very requirements to one that is even higher for undergraduate students trying to start at university?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000198\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228078015161f1ce02c485bcac97ed66ef\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: No.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000199\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a1901a44e88e40d095f26c06ebac9721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dc9a5d5d78b742ae0b4e21f21ad503be\u0022\u003EHon Louise Upston\u003C/span\u003E: Is it the Government\u2019s intent that a migrant leave a role at the end of their temporary work visa?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000200\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022448c490fe2e2f51941d636d1994103b4\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yes. The purpose of temporary work visas is to fill skills shortages where a New Zealander is not available. As migrants reach the end of their work visa, the thousands of potential vacancies provide a critical opportunity for New Zealanders to be first in line for jobs. Immigration New Zealand and MSD are jointly undertaking a work programme in this, and last year, Immigration New Zealand identified employers with employees coming to the end of their maximum continuous stay. They provided this information to MSD, who contacted the affected employers, and to date have filled 400 of these roles with people who are needing work. That\u2019s 400 New Zealanders who now have jobs and are able to provide for their families and their future because this Government is committed to prioritising New Zealanders for work, including taking the hard immigration decisions that we need to ensure this happens.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000201\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226314469417a9a51fd35f060d1168220d\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Does she accept that she has different standards for multimillionaire golden visa holders who get the right to vote, make larger anonymous political donations, and buy multiple homes without having to sit any\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000202\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002252cc6bca368c08f030dd5a8529eb953e\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh no\u2014no, sorry.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000203\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ba96e8c11ecc01e7b48cc2138d38be4d\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: This is the English language\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000204\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022aaaec69a1fbfd15b1ff0a5b7b5d11c92\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I\u2019m sorry. That question is\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000205\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002284a73fbbccf70415ed92f00246013798\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000206\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022283707d9d30d827cc9fd08bf071989a4\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, there\u2019s no point of order. [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E] There\u2019s only one person speaking at the moment, and it\u2019s me. That question is ruled out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000207\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002283be52374ca8aa918157771dd2dd42f7\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: OK. Is it correct that golden visa holders are able to buy homes, maker larger anonymous political donations, and get the right to vote without sitting any English tests?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000208\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f07ddbc5e178c3b96d09af8494587ed\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Those things\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000209\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002271d8acf3a6f0476999f9d03b4ae70e7d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ec50c7212cfd5bb61574169e35b80504\u0022\u003EHon Shane Jones\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000210\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b76697ce4511db4b471e9a2b2c54713b\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, hang on. There is implication in that question, but it should be answered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000211\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002237b40d11275f4dba8e36c41507f8a1c5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd209ee1494e396da4c0af4af5227951\u0022\u003EHon ERICA STANFORD\u003C/span\u003E: There are things in that question that are not linked. Any person who becomes a tax resident in this country has the ability to buy a house, and any person in this country becomes also a resident. What the member seems to be suggesting with his questions down the English language route is that there should be the same level of English language for all resident visa holders, and, if that is the case, a refugee who is a partner of a New Zealander should also face these higher English language requirements. If that\u2019s what he is suggesting, then feel free to take that to the election.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000212\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a3e310b6ee849aaec42a4a6a63edd91d\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Question No. 11\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000213\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf9e1eb91ef740868a26db659355f7e9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002251349b712c65f1881139b83f09dd820f\u0022\u003ERt Hon Winston Peters\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. The questioner, in his question, insinuated that a foreigner without any status in this country nevertheless could make financial contributions to political parties. That statement is false. It\u2019s outside the law, and he\u2019s been here long enough to have learnt that, rather than make that foul insinuation and get away with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000214\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002234e6e3eb6c92b33a8bb0068b727f2700\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I appreciate that and I understood that, and I was of a view that that answer would be coming from the floor and the member has now provided it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000215\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022336e01aae6844f1922b08ec008bc510a\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000216\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221a92a3d3b125b3fb1296e575d5f28f74\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022 data-id=\u0022c8d1d832a12b20d5c13b2f5860f0e4c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000217\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c8d1d832a12b20d5c13b2f5860f0e4c7\u0022\u003ETANGI UTIKERE (Labour\u2014Palmerston North) (14:50)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EMinister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: Does he stand by his statement regarding heavy vehicle weight limits that \u201Cthere are sensible changes we can make that will lift productivity without compromising standards\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022 data-id=\u002263c4abe7cb562f7361113c522d1b7069\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000218\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002263c4abe7cb562f7361113c522d1b7069\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP (Minister of Transport) (14:50)\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, I stand by my full statement, which is \u201CWe need to balance that with safety and network impacts, but there are sensible changes we can make that will lift productivity without compromising standards.\u201D The Government is exploring a range of temporary, targeted, and timely measures to support New Zealanders; this includes preparatory work to remove or suspend regulatory barriers that make it harder for businesses and communities to cope with global fuel shocks. Small increases in permitted loads for heavy vehicles could reduce the number of trips needed, saving time, lowering costs, and reducing fuel use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000219\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022debdf1135a809e744b962bac7cad0b0c\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: How can he claim these changes will not compromise standards when he himself has acknowledged there is \u201Cno doubt\u201D roads will suffer from heavier trucks, and such a change will put pressure on repairs and maintenance, and on former Minister of Transport Simeon Brown\u2019s pothole patrol?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000220\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c77c2cf079abb0125eb08ff1fd226455\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: I think the answer is in the answer to the primary question, which is that we need to balance that with safety and network impacts. We\u2019re doing the work right now, and no decisions have been made.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000221\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227af0bdb8ab943b1dbcb9382e57aa0919\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does a proposal to lift heavy vehicle weight limits have the support of all three coalition parties, given that when asked whether he would veto changes to truck weight limits, one coalition partner has said, \u201CStand back and watch\u201D, and, \u201CWe are not going to go down that pathway\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000222\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022acc32cd78cf38a35fa1174a3dc7fcb8f\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: The Government hasn\u2019t considered any formal advice on the matters the member is referring to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000223\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022dd47c73fdc05fe55c961a0da8ac31eeb\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Does he agree with Winston Peters that weight limits \u201Care put there for good reasons, because of potholes and bridge strength\u201D?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000224\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002285f453672b1bc630572c9a298b24b8ff\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, in a general sense. It is undoubtedly true that heavy vehicles have an impact on the road. We are considering that matter right now, and, as I say\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000225\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220750364c2c1444d0ae00bced720f964e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ef5ce4d54e66566e21eea3907aab1679\u0022\u003EHon Ginny Andersen\u003C/span\u003E: Why did you make an announcement?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000226\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223f38a23fadf730d489539ed10d32829a\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, we\u2019ll make an announcement when we\u2019ve made a decision. That\u2019s generally how Government works. I know that member wasn\u2019t in Government for very long and has maybe forgotten how the Cabinet process works, but generally, on this side of the House, we go through a process, we do the work, we take a paper to Cabinet, and when we\u2019ve made a decision, we announce it. I look forward to making sure that we continue to be the ones doing the announcing and the decision making for a long time to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000227\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022fe57307f910ff436d0913df30a5dddbe\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Should weight limit changes proceed, will he accept responsibility for safety and other concerns having been disregarded\u2014concerns that have been expressed by members of his own coalition Government?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000228\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220698d0a42ca0e31f498a99511f575da1\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, as I say, the member makes a not unreasonable point that the impact of heavy vehicles has an impact on the roading network. We are considering that, and you\u2019ve also got to balance it with the undoubted situation that we find ourselves in, or potentially find ourselves in. If the fuel crisis worsens, we might find ourselves in a situation in which it would make sense for trucks to do fewer trips, thus improving fuel economy\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000229\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220b60f3de86f94cdcba16d6caa82b94e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227ee83070a8cbcc3078d1bed7ba08ad61\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Rubbish!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000230\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b7a6726521eea801767e39af42d1511d\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, the member says \u201Crubbish\u201D, but that is definitely true. It is definitely true that if trucks are able to do fewer trips and take more when they do the same number of trips, that is good for fuel economy. It\u2019s a simple matter of economics and maths\u2014and I know maths aren\u2019t the Labour Party\u2019s strong suit, as we get a daily demonstration of, but I invite the member to actually look at the facts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000231\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb7faaf2fb8e32d644b17729fe530dd2\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Willis\u003C/span\u003E: Does the Minister share the concerns of a broad number of New Zealanders with the increased cost of fuel, and is it therefore the Government\u2019s position that it will consider a range of practical measures to reduce the cost of fuel and the use of fuel, and does that include everything from electric vehicle licensing, through to more use of rail, through to reducing red tape on freight?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000232\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229d5b7823364c7c152d7daee386b5db24\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Yes, indeed. I have seen suggestions from some people that the Government should just do something, and then when the Government does decide to consider doing something, they don\u2019t like that either.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000233\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022eb80a9df83044b88a00c174ea7a61925\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022de479d73db8f51e1c892096753cb1f3c\u0022\u003ETangi Utikere\u003C/span\u003E: Why is he prioritising regulatory relief for the trucking industry when ordinary New Zealanders are paying record prices at the pump just to get to work, drop their kids off at school, and put food on the table?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000234\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229ab61999982eccd2efb11ce630794e68\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, this is a classic of the Labour Party genre, which is a series of fallacious assertions backed up with no policy of their own. As Minister, I am prioritising regulatory relief\u2014in fact, the whole Government is prioritising regulatory relief for everyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000235\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022457df9b82e92b26f8e7fc329d0847db7\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: As Minister of Transport, is it his understanding that food on the table more often than not comes on trucks, and, if that is true, will the Government have any communication plans to get that across to some of the simpler members of the Labour Party?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000236\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002268e194ef70b0ea03126eef48850ab4fd\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Well, Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000237\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002258fa6c2b9e64602b462a93642bb6fc46\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No\u2014sorry. Just a minute\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000238\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216001d8340d0a82d6ec1c2d9a3917709\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000239\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002250f69d1576674a8c162d55c850597905\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Bishop, sit down\u2014sit down. You can, Mr Seymour, withdraw the last part of that question, and then Mr Bishop may make a short response.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000240\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226e1ef2baa19e4b8b9dc9ee8604ae7dba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220ed12e5e20fcac880c1113d484a4bfae\u0022\u003EHon David Seymour\u003C/span\u003E: I withdraw the last part of the question.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000241\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b111696b9f040d3b1d5339eead7439f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b8ff839434b70340fb13fc8b3bf579df\u0022\u003EHon CHRIS BISHOP\u003C/span\u003E: Forty minutes ago, we had a long conversation at the front end of question time about food costs and people paying prices at the supermarkets. Guess what will happen if the fuel crisis gets worse and those fuel costs are passed on to consumers? That will show up in food prices. Regulatory relief like we\u2019re talking about, at least on the margins, takes the heat off the food price increases.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000242\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c123e5624c3fa4fbe63781e05f99edea\u0022\u003ETransport\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000243\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00221c3169871422b3b7d9810c1022313590\u0022\u003EQuestion No. 12\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6cd9e43c6b412fc4a37bf19b0c29ebd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000244\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6cd9e43c6b412fc4a37bf19b0c29ebd\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (14:56)\u003C/span\u003E to the \u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBold\u0022\u003EAssociate Minister of Transport\u003C/span\u003E: What recent announcements has he made about land transport rules?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022 data-id=\u0022a382bc627707b4389f5625e91da7ad07\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000245\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a382bc627707b4389f5625e91da7ad07\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER (Associate Minister of Transport) (14:56)\u003C/span\u003E: Recently, Minister of Transport Chris Bishop and I announced that New Zealand\u2019s warrant of fitness\u2014with your indulgences, sir, I\u2019ll refer to them as WOFs\u2014and certificate of fitness A, which I\u2019ll refer to as COFs, light vehicle inspection requirements will soon be significantly reformed, saving Kiwis valuable time and money. The changes mean that most light vehicles under 14 years old will move to two-yearly WOF inspections, up from yearly, and new vehicles will go to four years before needing their WOF. Older vehicles, motorcycles, and light rental vehicles will move from six-monthly to yearly inspections.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000246\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bba9c5bab5cd03acb50e7f751ab72603\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: How much will this save Kiwis a year?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000247\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002244dc836d12098f5841d84e3a14f217e8\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: These are simple changes that will deliver massive benefits for Kiwis. The cost-benefit analysis done by officials shows that these changes are expected to deliver between $2.6 billion and $4.1 billion in net benefits to Kiwis over 30 years through reduced inspection fees, less time spent on compliance, and fewer unnecessary repairs. I know many people around the country, including people in this House, will welcome these changes, especially when many households are feeling pressure due to high fuel prices caused by the ongoing conflict in the Middle East.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000248\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022febf3b62d530b7d7d4c6fdc6b3b5d4c4\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: When will these changes come into effect?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000249\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225459b3c0726d42c1b6d3cc94ec303baa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022f91612f857ce258ab0cdad91272063f3\u0022\u003EHon JAMES MEAGER\u003C/span\u003E: From 1 November, most light vehicle users will benefit from these changes, but it is important to note that the ongoing obligation to keep your vehicle roadworthy\u2014including your tyres\u2014in tip-top shape, continues. We all have an obligation to keep our vehicles roadworthy at all times, and there will be increased penalties and enforcement for people who don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000250\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00229f46e7bde81e3cdb4e5029ec12709aa5\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That concludes question time. We\u2019ll just take a brief 30 seconds for those who have to leave the House before I call for the general debate to begin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000251\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022e87dd2f7abcd1dfa5e4b8d89cea5c13e\u0022\u003EDebates\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000252\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022568fccedcd5dcda61d73cc275de77572\u0022\u003EGeneral Debate\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022 data-id=\u00226d1f3f3b9566a2b9251faf1c138aad23\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000253\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226d1f3f3b9566a2b9251faf1c138aad23\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON (Co-Leader\u2014Green) (14:59)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the House take note of miscellaneous business\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000254\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis week, Friday is Mayday, International Workers\u2019 Day, a really important opportunity to think about the state of worker solidarity in Aotearoa and, actually, across the country. What we\u2019re seeing right now is that while this Government wants to divide working people against each other, sowing division and misplaced fear, regular working people are actually uniting, coming together, and fighting back. This coalition wants us to blame our neighbour for a lack of jobs, homes, and adequate healthcare; for the failing state of flood protection and infrastructure that leaves the beaches polluted and homes filled with mud.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000255\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWinston wants us to blame immigrants. Look at his party\u2019s\u2014Mr Winston Peters.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000256\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a2c1662bda22b6105ff5d66e36425259\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member cannot just use a name like that\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000257\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022484afc91a6eb80dcd1e9ac226ad448fd\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Winston Peters\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000258\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002237d92e774420ab2fda15c212b03475b2\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t finished speaking. The member must use a member\u2019s full name.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000259\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225e65b51223cf4eb8aa02a982d92f8959\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002262fb17d09f429dc306234e8e8ee8cbfb\u0022\u003EHon MARAMA DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Mr Winston Peters wants us to blame migrants. Just look at his party\u2019s rhetoric on Chinese people and on the India free-trade agreement. Mr David Seymour wants us to blame M\u0101ori. Look at the lengths that they\u2019re going to remove te reo M\u0101ori from public places and undermine Te Tiriti at every step. They had their own ACT Party candidate advising the Minister and the Government on reviewing and removing Treaty clauses from legislation. The Prime Minister, Mr Luxon, wants us to blame beneficiaries for unemployment. Look at what they\u2019ve done to remove the benefit from young people and create a host of new sanctions for how people are supposed to survive.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000260\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Government is taking their hands off the wheel and choosing to maintain the hardship that ordinary, regular people are facing every single day, while right in front of all of our eyes the wealthy few are hoarding more and more wealth than ever before. Ganesh Nana wrote about this last year in the household net-worth survey, where the wealth divide has become a chasm. People know this. They can see it, they can feel it. Nurses and police and cleaners and bus drivers and early childhood education teachers know that they are, effectively, paying more effective tax than the wealthy owning tens and dozens and loads of houses. They can see this. They\u2019re not buying the line that the economic recovery is helping them, because they are feeling it every single day. One hundred and nineteen families and individuals on the rich list hold as much wealth as nearly half of all New Zealanders. People know that is wrong, and this fossil fuel crisis is another chance for the mega-rich to cash in on that and to exploit that while the system that they\u2019ve designed squeezes regular people harder and keeps us reliant on fossil fuel. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000261\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EResearch released just yesterday showed that six of the biggest fossil fuel companies are making $3,000 per second in profits during a crisis where ordinary people are struggling\u2014$37\u00A0million a day above what they made last year. People know this is wrong. People know this system is unfair. People know it needs fixing because people also know that there is enough for everyone, but this Government and multi-millionaires and billionaires want us to believe otherwise.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000262\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt this election, then, we have a choice between working people having to work longer just to survive\u2014to pay the bills, to get kai, to pay the rent, and to pay the power bill\u2014while the rich get richer and richer; or we can finally tax the wealthy few so that everyone can have healthcare, affordable housing, and jobs that work for us. We can have an economy that works for working people and a planet that sustains us for today and for mokopuna to come. You can hear the objections of the people. Who are they working for? Whose interests are the people on the other side of the House working for when they are protecting the unfair systems that everyone else can see is wrong, and when they are protecting the wealthy few holding on to their wealth while we\u2019re there\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000263\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220527d95b669c5d056995f74b0680815a\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Marama Davidson, you know that that\u2019s a completely inappropriate line of debate\u2014totally\u2014making accusations like that, so that\u2019s the end of that speech. I call on the Hon Nicola Willis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec8e38426558afe2ece26ad302754bd5\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000264\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec8e38426558afe2ece26ad302754bd5\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS (Minister of Finance) (15:04)\u003C/span\u003E: It is an historic week. This week New Zealand signed a once-in-a-generation free-trade agreement with India. This means more jobs, higher incomes, and more export opportunities. Our Prime Minister, Chris Luxon, in Opposition said it could be done, and he got it done. He did it with the support of my colleague behind me, the Hon Todd McClay, a negotiator for the ages.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000265\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt a time of global uncertainty, opening the doors to a market of 1.4 billion people is exactly the practical economic leadership New Zealanders need. What it means is new opportunities in job-rich industries, evening the playing field with those countries with whom we compete, making it easier for our exporters who produce apples, kiwifruit, sheep meat, wool, coal, wine, iron, steel, aluminium, and honey to reach that important market. But it has not gone unnoticed that there were naysayers along the way\u2014that there were detractors. First of all, we had Labour, who said it couldn\u2019t be done. They didn\u2019t even have it on their agenda.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000266\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to turn now to other critics, and yes, that is my friends in New Zealand First, with whom we have agreed to disagree on this matter. New Zealand First are on the wrong side of history on this one, just as they were on the wrong side of history when they opposed the China free-trade agreement. Before we had that agreement, we only had $2.5\u00A0billion worth of exports to that market. Today, what is it? More than $20 billion. That is what a free-trade agreement can achieve. It can support jobs. It supports the regional communities New Zealand First say they care about but clearly don\u2019t talk to often, because those regional communities know that the farmers want access to India, and they don\u2019t like New Zealand First\u2019s opposition to it. But, actually, what we really need to call out in this House\u2014and I want to acknowledge Marama Davidson for doing the same\u2014is the race-based scaremongering that New Zealand First have indulged in in opposing this free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000267\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to call out Labour, because, actually, along the way, you too sidled up on the anti-immigration rhetoric.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000268\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002265a570f1347b1fb09018bf76fe1e80ce\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: No, I did not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000269\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00221ff07ec608ec558fdf56158d724dfeca\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: You were quite happy to sit back on that, but here, in particular, I want to quote a remark in Parliament that was made in public. I apologise in advance, because it will offend this House; it offended me. Let me tell you, it has offended New Zealanders of Indian descent up and down this country, who have been in touch with our MPs, in touch with our Ministers, and who are hurt and feel betrayed. That comment was that a free-trade agreement with India\u2014so that our exporters can sell their goods and services there\u2014would unleash a \u201Cbutter chicken tsunami\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000270\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224545b103cb23fafe4315d7cc796d4bca\u0022\u003EHon Members: \u003C/span\u003EShameful!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000271\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e194bc87aaf418363b81dd75967786f7\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, shame on you, Shane Jones. I enjoy working with you around the Cabinet table, but that kind of race-based rhetoric has no place in New Zealand politics. To those New Zealanders of Indian descent\u2014actually, to all New Zealanders who are fair-minded and good-minded\u2014I want you to know that we hear you and we back you. We know that the contribution that people from India have made to this economy has been, and will continue to be, immense, and they deserve to be respected for their contributions and not described in that way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000272\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003ENow, it didn\u2019t go unnoticed that Labour indulged in a bit of the anti-immigration speculation, as well, but that\u2019s the state of Labour today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000273\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022752af8e27b1264ff8daffc606b29edf4\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Mr Speaker. That is the second time the member has made an inaccurate and quite serious accusation against this party. It is not true, and it is, I think, deliberately misleading this House to accuse the Labour Party of sidling up to what views we all find repugnant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000274\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227d0cedfdc8a329499377b78f37931a87\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member knows there is a course of action he can follow for that. This is a debate, and where debating material is thought to be inaccurate, there is a remedy for parties to follow. I call the Hon Nicola Willis for her last 30 seconds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000275\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002286bdf300182ae33693206cb240c84f19\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: That is the state of Labour today: bark at every passing car, have an opinion on everything, a policy on nothing. Their chickens are coming home to roost. They\u2019ve made dozens of unfunded policies, and they\u2019ve actually been caught out with these promises this week. In plain English, what they told the Fitch Ratings agency is they\u2019ll sort it all out with more taxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000276\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b13aa8ffbae34ee4972a7ab313f6b300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226228394487b89070861f784a6c4ca572\u0022\u003EHon Dr Deborah Russell\u003C/span\u003E: You weren\u2019t in the room.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000277\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226b99476d584f47b19420b8154e6947dc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222e6a6ba2931d96b3bca009f7ea90831e\u0022\u003EHon NICOLA WILLIS\u003C/span\u003E: Well, they haven\u2019t told New Zealanders yet. Deborah\u2019s pretty shirty about it, but just you wait, it\u2019s coming. Meanwhile: practical economic leadership, a free-trade agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u00220c089cf6b5bbbf1d51e302a381be2745\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000278\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220c089cf6b5bbbf1d51e302a381be2745\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (15:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Is this a Government that\u2019s going to give Kiwis confidence? Is that a Government that says to New Zealanders that they are focused on the things that matter? When they have an opportunity to talk about what this Government is doing, they make things up and they have a crack at their coalition partners. They have demonstrated what Kiwis have seen all through the last week, where they actually can\u2019t get through one topic and one speech without having a go at each other. They got into bed with New Zealand First. Don\u2019t cry about it now. The fact of it is they knew exactly what they were getting into. Their polls have dropped, to the benefit of New Zealand First. They\u2019re starting to panic and now they\u2019re having a crack at them. It\u2019s not going to wash. It\u2019s your own doing. You shouldn\u2019t have signed up to it; you did. They\u2019re your mates. Deal with it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000279\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe fact of the matter is that New Zealanders don\u2019t have confidence with this Government, because for two and a half years they\u2019ve been blaming everybody else. Now they\u2019re even blaming themselves. They\u2019re blaming their own coalition partners to take attention from the fact that it was actually only a week ago that Christopher Luxon, under huge pressure, put up a confidence vote in caucus and almost lost to an empty chair. That\u2019s how bad things are for Christopher Luxon. He was backed into a corner. He knew he was losing support. If it wasn\u2019t for Stuart Smith getting lost somewhere in Marlborough on the way, then Christopher Luxon would have had a challenge on his hand. He stood up, he took the numbers, and from what I gather, from what I\u2019ve been hearing, double digits of his caucus voted no. There was nobody to replace him\u2014no one to replace him but an empty chair, and he almost lost. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000280\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut I want to thank the members of the National Party for voting for Chris Luxon, because we\u2019re very happy that he is there. We are very happy that he is there, because the more that New Zealanders see from Christopher Luxon, the less they like; the more they start to realise that this Government is empty\u2014it has nothing. If it\u2019s not written in front of them, they don\u2019t know what to say. It was on display in question time today. Andy Foster got given an additional supplementary question from the Speaker and he didn\u2019t know what to say, because no one had written it down for him. He just sat there like a deer in the headlights. Surely you would think, two and a half years after getting into Government, that they would have something to talk about, something to crow about when given a free pass. They didn\u2019t take it! \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000281\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002290a9773cdf0b525480ce523b742bb484\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: How about those policies? Any policies yet, mate?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000282\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b2c265a63a848c726e523c2a362c86e5\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: The one-termers are piping up. No wonder they\u2019re worried, because they know\u2014they know that their jobs are nearly done. They know that when New Zealanders see that there are 32,000 thousand fewer jobs in this country, they know this Government has to take responsibility for that. They know when there are 2,000 people leaving the country every week that the Government is refusing to take responsibility for that. When 15 percent\u2014that\u2019s the number of business liquidations, that\u2019s what it\u2019s increased by. They have not taken responsibility for that. They refused to take responsibility for the 18 percent increase in power prices. There are people in this country that are paying 100 bucks to visit the doctor.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000283\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve come up with a solution to that. We\u2019re going to use a capital gains tax to pay for three free GP visits for everyone in the country. What\u2019s their answer? \u201CNo, I don\u2019t like that. No, no, no, no, we\u2019re quite happy with people paying $100 to go and see their doctor.\u201D They\u2019re crowing about making it easier to access prescriptions, but let\u2019s not forget they used to be free. They put the charges back on them, make it slightly easier, and say, \u201CAren\u2019t we great?\u201D Well, the answer to that is no, and more and more New Zealanders are answering that. That is why they are polling in the mid-20s, because people have had enough. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000284\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThey\u2019ve had enough of the excuses. They\u2019ve had enough of the distractions. They\u2019ve had enough of the infighting and the bickering. They\u2019ve had enough of these empty National MPs who promised to fix the cost of living and have made things worse.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000285\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00228e8da2d27879f4248a2c5dcefa1dbe91\u0022\u003ERima Nakhle\u003C/span\u003E: Fixed it up after you guys decimated it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000286\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002221e300a7e3f2dca4d431ed770903f140\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY\u003C/span\u003E: Earlier today in question time\u2014it\u2019s actually against Standing Orders to change seats to heckle, but heckle all you like. You may as well make the most of the time you\u2019ve got. What is it? Four months? Get into it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000287\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EChris Hipkins asked the Prime Minister some simple questions today. How much has the average shop gone up for families? He pretended he didn\u2019t know. He knows full well. He doesn\u2019t want to admit\u2014it\u2019s $250, for the record. How much has the monthly power bill gone up? Again, he refused to talk about it. What about home, contents, car insurance? What about filling up the tank? All he had was excuses. All he had was blame. All he had was distractions. But that is all they have had for two and a half years, and New Zealanders are seeing through it. We know their days are numbered, and if you listen to Nicola Willis\u2019s speech, she knows they are, as well. When they are so desperate that they are going to spend their first contribution to a general debate having a crack at their coalition partners because they are eating their lunch, you know something\u2019s up. They know they are buggered, they know their time\u2019s up, and at this election, New Zealanders are going to have their say.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022 data-id=\u002206ad6b491f56fc4d08bf2f65f9d885d1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000288\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002206ad6b491f56fc4d08bf2f65f9d885d1\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY (Minister for Trade and Investment) (15:15)\u003C/span\u003E: Mr Speaker, I\u2019d almost take that last member, Kieran McAnulty, seriously, although for very different reasons he\u2019s imagined. He does know what it\u2019s like to lose his seat. He had one in the Wairarapa and he lost it at the last election. So to my colleagues who are out door-knocking and campaigning hard, who always believed when Christopher Luxon said we could do a free-trade agreement with India, when Kieran McAnulty, who\u2019s actually given up on his ambition to lead the Labour Party at the moment because of a lack of policy, says he thinks you might lose your seat, good on all of you for standing up for what\u2019s right for New Zealanders, getting out there knocking on doors, and believing Christopher Luxon when he said this Government would make our relationship with India a strategic priority and we would do a high quality, free-trade agreement with India in our first term.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000289\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s that kind of vision that the country has always had in trade and that we have brought in abundance, and the statistics have been very well canvassed. Can I say to all members, having had a very large delegation of New Zealand businesses, trade associations, and Indian New Zealanders who are so proud of actually what New Zealand has to offer the world, jump on a plane with a day\u2019s notice and travel to India to witness the historic occasion of the signature of the free-trade agreement actually speaks wonders for the ambition of New Zealanders and how New Zealanders know when something that is good for them is done, that it is worth celebrating and celebrating quickly.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000290\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIndia is a nation of 1.4 billion people. For every single Kiwi, that\u2019s more than 250 Indians, if my maths is correct. So, ultimately, what that means is it\u2019s a market that we have never had access to in this way before. It is now the most populous country in the world and we are in on the ground floor as they continue to grow their economy and become confident. Think of it: a country of 5 million people at the bottom of the world, and yesterday, when we arrived and signed on Monday\u2014that was Tuesday here\u2014that evening, on all of the television stations in India, wall-to-wall coverage of a little country called New Zealand that punches above its weight compared to many others, is opening up access for our exporters, and that does nothing but produce jobs that make New Zealanders wealthier. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000291\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo we can hear from the Opposition, from the Labour Party, the solution to all of our problems is another tax; actually, it\u2019s not. It\u2019s growing the economy, giving Kiwis choices, actually allowing opportunity for New Zealand businesses, and leveling the playing field so that in a market like India with 1.4 billion people, Kiwi companies can not only compete fairly against Australians but they will beat them in that market\u2014and against the Europeans and against the Americans. Against every single country in the world, Christopher Luxon, this Government, and the National Party backs New Zealanders and New Zealand businesses to do as well as they can. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000292\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00220b60f3de86f94cdcba16d6caa82b94e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292e43e0b5d49ddfa02c43e6d939d414b\u0022\u003EHon Damien O\u0027Connor\u003C/span\u003E: Not New Zealand First. No, Todd, not New Zealand First.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000293\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00228d19240ed9ca4f5597e2bb804e0e32fb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a18cc41d3361e8f8def687307adea4a6\u0022\u003EHon TODD McCLAY\u003C/span\u003E: Well, I mean, Damien O\u2019Connor, who I\u2019ve a lot of respect for because he flew all the way there and back with me at our invitation, is getting at New Zealand First. Not for the reasons that the coalition would say we don\u2019t agree; we\u2019re allowed to agree to disagree. It\u2019s because he ruled out Labour and he ruled out Chris Hipkins from the next Government. So all of a sudden, they\u2019ve changed their tune, right? But I guarantee you, they\u2019re still sending their gifts across from India.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000294\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPutting that aside, 1.4 billion people: we back New Zealand businesses to do well. The way to actually allow New Zealanders to do more is not to tax them more; it\u2019s to allow them to create businesses to sell more, to do well overseas, to meet their ambition, and for the Government to go and join them. It\u2019s a long list of things that we have succeeded in in this country, in India: sheep, meat, wood, forestry, kiwifruit, coal, dairy\u2014you know, a reduction of tariffs rates or duty free on day one. That seafood that we were talking about at question time earlier is significant. With 1.4 billion people, we don\u2019t have to sell a mussel to all of them, we can just sell it to half of them. By golly, in Nelson\u2014a seat that we\u2019re going to take off Labour at the next election because of a hard-working MP who cares about them\u2014if we could do that there, the people of Nelson would actually be wealthier.  Do you know what we actually need in New Plymouth? A seafood industry, as well as a gas industry. Labour closed that city down. We\u2019re rebuilding it but giving them more options. It\u2019s a wonderful, wonderful thing. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000295\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EM\u0101nuka honey: unique to New Zealand\u2014those Australians like to try to claim the word \u201CM\u0101nuka\u201D from time to time. Up in India, when people brought the gift of M\u0101nuka honey with them and gave it to some of their counterparts, businesses, and so on, you know what they said? \u201CThis is a wonderful product; New Zealand is the first country in the world to have a reduction of tariff rate on honey into India; there are 400 million or 500 million people in India who are wealthy who will buy this; please produce as much as you can.\u201D It\u2019s good for every single part of New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022 data-id=\u0022cdc024645e3e348e859b9f65608667c7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000296\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002229b8d22182614a1b8b6e8ef03bf61503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cdc024645e3e348e859b9f65608667c7\u0022\u003EHon WILLOW-JEAN PRIME (Labour) (15:20)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe e te M\u0101ngai o te Whare\u003C/span\u003E. While we see the opposite side of the House so focused on themselves and their own jobs and bickering amongst their coalition Government, they are failing to see the real issues facing their constituencies. Kiwis up and down the country are struggling with the basics. Yes, bills are up; yes, fuel costs more; but a sign of how bad things are getting is that many New Zealanders are now struggling to afford food.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000297\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou don\u2019t need to look to far to see how bad it has gotten under this Government. Headlines like, \u201CNorthland residents using Afterpay to buy essentials amid cost of living crisis\u201D. In Whanganui: \u201CFood insecurity new normal as support agencies fight to stay open\u201D; \u201CWaged workers now lining up for food support as need surges\u201D; \u201CBudgeting services see increased demand for food and financial support\u201D. According to the New Zealand Food Network\u2019s recent report, 33 percent of New Zealanders experienced some form of food insecurity last year\u2014that\u2019s one in three. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000298\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut if you dive a bit deeper, you see that it gets even worse; 68 percent of people who reported food insecurity said they were experiencing it for the first time; 48 percent of low-income respondents have experienced it, but so have 29 percent of medium-income families, and even 12 percent of high-income families. For Pasifika, the rate of households who have experienced food insecurity is 64 percent. For M\u0101ori, it\u2019s over 50 percent. For disabled people, it\u2019s 82 percent. This is, quite simply, disgraceful. What the House needs to keep in mind is that this report is about 2025\u2014and 2025, in case the Government members on the other side of the House have forgotten, is before the current fuel crisis.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000299\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESince the start of the fuel crisis, we\u2019ve had food banks tell us that families are struggling to even be able to afford to access the food support that they need. They cannot afford to drive to the food bank. They cannot afford the bus ticket to get to the food bank. We\u2019ve got organisations like the Kindness Collective, who do an incredible job serving children and wh\u0101nau in need, who have experienced a 336 percent increase in demand for their services, while other organisations like St Vincent de Paul have seen a sharp rise in people being unable to pick up their food parcels. I visited Visionwest, in West Auckland, and it\u2019s a similar situation. The demand from families needing food support is increasing, but people cannot afford to come and pick it up. We also had the Pacific Trust talking about the increase in demand. Many organisations across the country are supporting communities in need.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000300\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is the reality of life under National: more and more people needing assistance, but who can\u2019t even afford to get it. What was the Government\u2019s response to that? Well, they mostly just cross their fingers and hope that it will all go away. They talked about \u201Ctargeted\u201D support, but they haven\u2019t targeted these people in need. They see more and more people lose their jobs and seek assistance, and then kick them while they\u2019re down. They ignore the struggles that Kiwis are going through. Christoper Luxon promised to fix the cost of living. The National Party promised to fix the cost of living. Instead, they have made it worse. Now, every third person you meet in New Zealand may have gone without food in the last year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEverything costs more, the economy is weaker, and people aren\u2019t just worse off, people are hungry. Our message to Kiwis is that the Labour Party is focused on what matters\u2014on your job, on your health, on your home\u2014so you can build a future for your family here; so you can afford to build your future here, in Aotearoa. Kia ora. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u0022592dedc90ab7e6d7851a46dfa31a6287\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000302\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022592dedc90ab7e6d7851a46dfa31a6287\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT) (15:26)\u003C/span\u003E: \u201CIf liberty means anything at all, it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear.\u201D Those words are from George Orwell, and they are words that this House would do well to remember today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000303\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EThe Broadcasting Standards Authority (BSA) made little sense when it was created, and it makes even littler sense now. Gone are the days of rabbit-ear television and adjusting the antenna. Yes, I am old enough to remember those days, when I was out flatting\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000304\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a2d138cbb839455d9754acbe91a75102\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022695fd3378de1a18d729c73ed76d60917\u0022\u003ESPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: That\u2019s hardly believable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000305\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002230144011e9a016d06d13b815e1f574f6\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014and now we have everything at our fingertips\u2014oh, there\u2019s a few people in this room that remember that, too. The Broadcasting Standards Authority has become irrelevant. It has not only become irrelevant; if we just actually call it what it is, it has become a group of Wellington bureaucrats that are the taste police on content on the internet. That is what we are seeing. In my very humble opinion, and those of very many New Zealanders, this is an extremely dangerous precedent to set.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000306\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealanders, as we know, are getting their media from all around the world now. We\u2019re seeing it not just here in New Zealand\u2014they\u2019re getting their media from everywhere around the globe, and that is the beauty of the internet. When the Broadcasting Standards Authority was set up, the internet was not even a thing. For the Broadcasting Standards Authority to go out of their remit and be essentially policing the internet is actually a really scary thought. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000307\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDo you know what, it\u2019s funny, because I look at the BSA\u2019s own justification for its own existence, and it is so incredibly weak. The BSA claims its job is\u2014and I quote from their website\u2014\u201COverseeing and promoting broadcasting standards on behalf of New Zealanders\u201D. But I think there is a more honest motto it could adopt: \u201CWar is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.\u201D The BSA now looks more like something out of Orwell\u2019s \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003ENineteen Eighty-Four\u003C/span\u003E than something that belongs in a modern liberal democracy. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000308\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFreedom of speech is not a nice to have; it\u2019s not a luxury of a modern society; it\u2019s not something that you get to pick and choose whether you like to hear something or you don\u2019t. It\u2019s a fundamental human right, and fundamental to every other freedom that follows on from it. It\u2019s the underlying basis for freedom of religion, freedom to protest, and many more. If you take away speech, you take away it all. If you don\u2019t believe in free speech consistently\u2014if you only believe in it for the views that you agree with\u2014then you don\u2019t really believe in it at all. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000309\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt doesn\u2019t even matter whether someone is saying something correct. Often, I see my friends over in the Greens spouting off some kind of nonsense that surely nobody thinks is correct, and some may even say that\u2019s helpful to New Zealanders. But as Evelyn Beatrice Hall famously wrote, \u201CI disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.\u201D, and I defend even the Greens and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2019s right to have their opinions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000310\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe argument about whether the BSA needs to exist comes down to a simple question: do we trust New Zealanders, or do we believe the State knows better? Because right now, the BSA stands there at the podium of truth deciding which views are acceptable for the public to hear and quietly snuffling out the ones that aren\u2019t. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000311\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT trusts New Zealanders. We trust them to hear different viewpoints and to make up their own minds. We trust them to push back against the ideas they disagree with. We trust them to argue, to debate, and to think for themselves. New Zealanders are not children who need to be coddled by the State or shielded from anything that might actually hurt their feelings. They are adults, they are citizens, and they are perfectly capable of handling speech that they don\u2019t agree with at all. For the critics out there who say that removing the BSA will be a free for all; it won\u2019t be. We have the Media Council. We have defamation laws here in New Zealand. Threats against violence\u2014we have protections in place. The BSA is completely irrelevant now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000312\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYes, there will be speech that people don\u2019t like. I\u2019m sure some people in the House don\u2019t like this speech right now. There will be opinions that offend and provoke, but that is not a flaw of a free society; it is the beauty of one, a price worth paying. Abolish the BSA.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022 data-id=\u002284ced27e615e8e8528756fb8649acfe0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000313\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002284ced27e615e8e8528756fb8649acfe0\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON (National\u2014Waitaki) (15:31)\u003C/span\u003E: New Zealand is at its core a trading nation. We depend on value created from the land, the sea, the rivers, our fields, and from our ingenuity. The returns from our trade are not just numbers on a page; they are the lifeblood that finances our schools, our hospitals, our police, our defence force, and all the services that every resident and citizen expects. When trade succeeds, the whole country prospers, and nowhere is that clearer than in the mighty Waitaki. The newly inked free-trade agreement with India is truly great news for our farmers, growers, fishers\u2014the local industries whose world-class products are the pride of our region. From Oamaru\u2019s historic precinct to the green heartlands of Waimate, through the high country of Mackenzie to the fertile slopes of Central Otago, and out in Clutha, the benefits will be felt far and wide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000314\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s talk wine. Waitaki boasts many renowned vineyards and wine producers. This is a growing industry in the region. Until now, our wines have faced a staggering 150\u00A0percent tariff at the Indian border. Thanks to this agreement, those tariffs will drop to as low as 25 percent for many New Zealand wines, making our labels more attractive and competitive in one of the world\u2019s largest and fastest-growing markets. This helps not just our vineyards but the bottlers, the packers, the exporters, and the hospitality workers who rely on the wine trade. Our cherry growers and other fruit producers, especially those cultivating the famed stone fruits, apples, and more, can now look forward to the progressive elimination of tariffs that once made it hard to compete. For example, as we heard earlier during question time, cherries will fall from 33 percent tariff to zero over time, which means more money for orchardists, more opportunities for seasonal workers, and a real incentive for investment in new plantings and new technologies. The extra income generated flows back into our local economy, helping to fund our roads, community facilities, education, and health.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000315\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESheep farmers and the red meat industry are at the heart of the Waitaki\u2019s identity. With all the tariffs on sheep meat and wool immediately removed, our region\u2019s fine wool and premium lamb can enter India duty-free. This will benefit not only our high-country farms but also our processors: Silver Fern Farms, at Pareora; Alliance Group, in Pukeuri; BX Foods, in Oamaru. Each of these facilities provides jobs, supports families, and adds enormous value to our exports. Let\u2019s not forget about Godfrey Hirst\u2019s carpet factory in Oamaru, one of the nation\u2019s leading wool processors, whose future will be made brighter by the extended access to a new market. Geraldine\u2019s cropping, artisan foods ventures, and dairying and horticulture in our valleys also stand to gain. The Waitaki Valley itself, as an emerging wine region, and a very good one at that, will find new customers and a greater profile thanks to this agreement.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000316\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to directly address the concern that sometimes surfaces in conversations about trade and matters of immigration. Part of this agreement allows 1,670 high-skilled work visas to be issued to Indian nationals. These are targeted visas, designed to fill skills, and are not about opening the floodgates or changing the fabric of our communities. These skilled individuals can contribute to our economy, help our businesses grow, and, like so many who came here before, make New Zealand a stronger and more innovative place. Let\u2019s focus on the facts and not the fears. This is about complementing, not overwhelming, our workforce. Waitaki is a large, diverse, and dynamic area, from the dairies of the east through to the sheep and cropping of the heartlands, to the orchards and vineyards of Central Otago, and the Waitaki Valley of course, every part of the electorate\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000317\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002219104f72e0cd9192b0f4c204f3de8438\u0022\u003EDan Bidois\u003C/span\u003E: It\u2019s a beautiful electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000318\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00226aa6725740ef48a8bd0e0d084ac074fc\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00227068925ae116d56577e1d9604134e57f\u0022\u003EMILES ANDERSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014it is a beautiful electorate\u2014contributes to the prosperity of us all. Thanks to the India FTA\u2014or \u201Cfree-trade agreement\u201D for you, Mr Speaker\u2014every part stands to benefit. Together, we\u2019ll continue to build a region and a nation of opportunity, pride, and promise for the generations to come. As we say, we\u2019re fixing the basics and building a future for the Waitaki. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022 data-id=\u00224898b076251dbdf5bdcb635e174f7cbb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000319\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b3410b728cb84eb295c253e2648ca0c8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224898b076251dbdf5bdcb635e174f7cbb\u0022\u003ESCOTT WILLIS (Green) (15:36)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. The days are getting shorter and many Kiwis are getting colder, and, sadly, we know that energy hardship is now widespread. It was heartbreaking to hear from the Hidden Energy Hardship hui last week that 200,000 households in 2025 were not able to keep their homes adequately warm; 160,000 households could not pay electricity, gas, rates, or water bills on time more than once in the last 12 months; over 160,000 households put up with a cold house to keep costs down; and 100,000 households suffered dampness and mould.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000320\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is shocking. I know Kiwis around the country would be outraged to learn that close to half a million Kiwis are suffering extreme energy hardship in this country, where we have the solutions at our fingertips. No one should be in this situation. I know how cold it can get in \u014Ctepoti Dunedin, a lovely place, but it makes me heartbroken to see kids in cold, damp homes with black mould throughout. That\u2019s long-term hospitalisation and illness. How about this Government take action? We need a national electrification plan. We have every opportunity to become an energy independent nation powered by the sun, the wind, our geothermal resources, our great hydro lakes, and some biomass.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000321\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI had the privilege of attending the opening of the TOPP2 geothermal power station in March, a partnership between T\u016Bwharetoa mai Kawerau ki te Tai Settlement Trust and Eastland Generation. They\u2019re delivering electricity to power 13,000 Kiwi homes, as well as geothermal process heat for the Kawerau Industrial Complex. It\u2019s an example of what could be possible with a national electrification plan: energy independence, building resilience, freeing us from the inflationary pressures of imported fossil fuels.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000322\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow long will this Government refuse to accept that their fascination with fossil fuels is harming us? The Government is forcing extreme hardship on Kiwis by prioritising fossil fuels, which they should know by now creates high power prices and drives extreme weather events, just like Wellington suffered last week, and the Far North the week before, and \u014Ctepoti before that. Our people suffer thanks to this ill-prepared Government. You would think it was blindingly obvious, but this is why we need action on climate, and a national electrification plan is just the thing we need. We are blessed with abundant renewable power sources, and yet, at the same time, businesses in manufacturing are closing, people are having to choose between heating and eating.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000323\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Government has already cut $178 million of funding from the Energy Efficiency and Conservation Authority, which provided funding for hot-water heating, low-cost energy-efficiency measures, an LED lighting scheme, and a community-focused out programme to target those hard-to-reach households. That cut has adversely affected just those households and wh\u0101nau in energy hardship. It is not rocket science. This Government should work to empower people, communities, and businesses to end dependence on overseas fossil fuels, to cut bills and build energy resilience. A national electrification plan would do just that, but they\u2019re doing the opposite.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000324\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHere are the three steps we need to take: we need to overcome the political inertia to fix the broken electricity market. The current electricity market simply incentivises coal; it locks in the dominance of the big utilities and disincentivises new-build renewables, including distributed generation. We need to support grid-scale renewables for households, communities, and iwi, because building fossil fuels for energy is the primary driver of catastrophic climate change. And we need to beef up energy conservation, which is so critical because the cheapest energy is that which we don\u2019t use.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000325\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis Government is flailing about. They haven\u2019t just run out of fuel; they\u2019ve run out of ideas, and they hope that we don\u2019t notice before 7 November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u00225468bae44bb3a28b4d3a87f55986a2f0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000326\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225468bae44bb3a28b4d3a87f55986a2f0\u0022\u003EMAUREEN PUGH (National\u2014West Coast-Tasman) (15:41)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Mr Speaker. I had a prepared speech, but I\u2019m totally distracted by that previous contribution and the load of waffle that we\u2019ve just heard about electricity and electrification from the very people that were in Government when they wrecked the electricity sector in this country. But anyway, today is Wednesday and today is also another free-trade agreement (FTA) day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000327\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo I want to focus on some positives and not spread any more doom and gloom-I think we\u2019ve had enough of that. But in simple terms, the India FTA is a really solid win for West Coast and Tasman. The exporters in West Coast and Tasman are going to end up with big trade barriers being removed, and this is going to open up our electorate to one of the fastest-growing countries in the world and the market for 1.5 billion people. So we\u2019re a big player when it comes to exports, although we\u2019re usually fairly humble about it. We\u2019ve got Tasman\u2019s forestry, apples, kiwifruit, wine, all bringing in well over $1 billion in New Zealand dollars into the national economy. But the FTA sees a reduction of the removal of about 95 percent of the tariffs that are impacted by those export products. For Tasman, that lines up well with what the region already does best: apples, kiwifruit, wine, forestry products, fish, and other high-quality food and fibre exports.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000328\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe India free-trade agreement is a genuine breakthrough for Tasman growers. For Tasman apple exporters, this is one of the biggest gains in the whole deal. Until now, India had a 50 percent tariff on imported apples; under the FTA, New Zealand apples get that cut to 25 percent within a quota, and over time that will come down. Also, the window for that quota is between April and August, which is the perfect time for our exporters. It\u2019s worth noting that New Zealand is the very first country ever to secure this type of access for apples into India. Tasman is home to about one-quarter of New Zealand\u2019s production of apples. So this means our premium varieties are suddenly more competitive on Indian shelves because those tariffs are coming down. I want to take the opportunity of having a big shout-out to Roxy. Roxy is a new variety that\u2019s hitting its stride around the world, including in India, and that\u2019s a new variety that was developed in Tasman over the past 27 years. That\u2019s very cool for them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000329\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EKiwifruit and wine is also going to do well out of the deal, and other products including fishing. But, Mr Speaker, I know you\u2019ll be very interested to know what this deal means for West Coast coal. Put simply, the India \u2013 New Zealand Free Trade Agreement is a great news story for West Coast coal industry, even though it\u2019s not a game-changer. The deal means that West Coast coal can go into India duty-free from day one. And the reason they want our coal is because it\u2019s essential for the Indian steel-making industry. So before the Greens go booking a seat in an aerial coal bucket to start their protests, dropping the tariffs doesn\u2019t suddenly mean there are going to be more mines or there\u2019s going to be a big jump in production, but it does make our coal more competitive and it keeps our existing operations viable. That means a lot of security for that sector. After all, we cannot have solar farms and we cannot have solar panels and wind farms without coal.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000330\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor the coast, remaining viable is very important, and coal is worth about $350-$450 million a year; the Indian market is worth an average of $150 million a year. I congratulate the Prime Minister, I congratulate the Hon Todd McClay and all of the trade officials for the sterling work that they have done over the past couple of years. Some people said it couldn\u2019t be done; some people said it couldn\u2019t be done in the time frame. But what have we done? We\u2019ve secured the FTA with India. Thank you, Mr. Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022 data-id=\u0022341ebb8b2cda63d644a702964e6fb38f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000331\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022341ebb8b2cda63d644a702964e6fb38f\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B) (15:46)\u003C/span\u003E: There\u2019s one issue in my electorate in West Auckland that everyone talks about, whether you\u2019re chatting at the petrol station while you\u2019re filling up or the in the supermarket car park or on the doorstep, everyone is talking about the cost of living. People are in a world of pain. They want help and, understandably, they are mad as hell with this Government, because Christopher Luxon promised to fix the cost of living, but his choices, the Government\u2019s choices, have made things much, much worse. People feel let down and abandoned by this Government.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000332\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve just done a survey of my constituents and I asked them what was going on for them and their families. The results were striking. Some 1,145 people did the survey from all across West Auckland, and when I asked people what the most important issue for them was, they overwhelmingly said cost of living-48 percent said cost of living. That\u2019s twice as much as the numbers for any other issue like jobs or health. Some 88 percent of the people who responded to the survey said they were \u201Cvery\u201D or \u201Cquite concerned\u201D about the cost of living, and only 2 percent said they weren\u2019t concerned at all; 24 percent of people said it was having a \u201Csevere impact\u201D on them and their families; 96 percent of people said it was having \u201Csome\u201D or \u201Ca significant\u201D or \u201Csevere\u201D impact.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000333\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, my constituents cited overwhelmingly the difficulty in affording groceries, fuel, power, rent, and childcare on stagnant and insufficient incomes. They talked of living paycheque to paycheque, with some even skipping meals or going into debt to survive. But don\u2019t take my word for it, here\u2019s what some of the people actually said: \u201CCost of everything is so high we can barely afford to go anywhere or do anything. When everything from eating to driving to having a roof over our heads is so expensive, what are we meant to do? I\u2019m so disappointed with the Government, and blame them for it.\u201D Another one wrote: \u201CLiving is hard, saving is hard. Food prices are high, rates are high, power is high, petrol is high, wages are stagnant. My relations are heading to Australia where they believe they can buy a house within four years. People are losing hope.\u201D Another person wrote: \u201CMy husband is jobless and I\u2019m on maternity leave and money is so tight with two kids and a mortgage.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000334\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA solo father wrote that he suffered a heart attack in 2024 and had five stents. He said: \u201CIt\u2019s a struggle to get by on my $625 benefit each week. I\u2019m boarding, which costs me $300, then my son\u2019s school lunch, 60 bucks a week, and with the price of petrol I need to put in 100 bucks just to fill up half a tank. With doctors fees and having to buy essentials, I\u2019m lucky to be left with $30 to get me through to the next week.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000335\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother person wrote that \u201CThe cost of living, fuel prices, poor access to healthcare, hard-to-book GP appointments, so people end up going to the emergency department, which leads to emergency departments being so clogged up, putting massive pressure on staff and long wait times at our local hospital. I\u2019m a nurse in the ED and experience this every day.\u201D That\u2019s just a cross section of what some of the people in West Auckland in my electorate said. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000336\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIs it any wonder that people are feeling the pain? Is it any wonder that 2,000 people every single week are heading to Australia? Power bills are up 18 percent under National. Doctors visits cost $100 in some areas, including in West Auckland. Insurance is up, car regos are up, and groceries go up every single week while wages fall behind. The people of West Auckland need a Government that\u2019s on their side and focused on one thing: helping people get ahead. Only Labour is focused on what matters\u2014your job, your health, and your home\u2014so you can build a future in this country, and not in Australia.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000337\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve already announced three free doctors visits, free cervical cancer screening, a plan to get easier doctor appointments, and the Future Fund, which builds your future here in New Zealand. Christopher Luxon promised to fix the cost of living, but he\u2019s only made it worse. The only way to fix it is to vote to change the Government in November.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022 data-id=\u0022ed75dee66d8d0532df416910488a7930\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000338\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ed75dee66d8d0532df416910488a7930\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON (NZ First) (15:51)\u003C/span\u003E:  Madam Speaker, thank you very much. I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to talk about a really sacred cow today\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000339\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a51f744de3d6afe25389ec97b164609a\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, I like cows.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000340\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00222c117f6511bc4b8fb6fdcf9c6133fb99\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a20c4f48da2e0e88d0dafc003bb80103\u0022\u003EDr DAVID WILSON\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014called climate change. Before we go there, I just might like to add that we\u2019ve had a lot of discussion about free-trade agreements today, and this latest one, I\u2019m sure, is not particularly free, as we will find out as we get the detail. Nevertheless, let\u2019s just switch to this: those that believe in climate change have told us that the science is settled, but anyone that understands science will know that science is never settled and there are disagreements about what is the truth in this whole climate cult.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000341\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet me talk to you about subjective validation. You probably don\u2019t even know what that is, but, anyway, it\u2019s about when you decide that something is really, really right, every bit of information you get validates what you already think you know. There\u2019s also a thing called researcher bias, and we\u2019ve seen plenty of that coming out in recent years. We don\u2019t deny that climate change is real\u2014that\u2019s the thing\u2014but we think it can be resolved with the right interventions, and we have time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000342\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESocial psychologist Professor Jonathan Haidt warns that modern society has developed harmful sacred cows. Those are ideological taboos that inhibit open inquiry and intellectual humility. I don\u2019t see much intellectual humility coming from the other side of the aisle on this topic, and we need to think about that. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000343\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWealth, technology, and adaptation are making the difference. Richer societies handle climate risks better than alarmist, catastrophic narratives. We are currently observing a striking political and media shift, a rapid retreat from climate alarmism, across the world. Leaders who once led with the Paris Agreement and net zero rhetoric are now prioritising affordability, energy and food security, and economic growth. Those are our priorities, and that is how we will address climate change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000344\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThey\u2019re facing up to the high costs of tiny climate change returns and of raising energy prices. Voter backlash against soaring energy bills is forcing a rethink of aggressive net zero mandates across the UK, Europe, the US, and beyond. UK\u2019s well-intentioned climate policies have driven electricity prices to the highest levels in the Western world while delivering negligible climate benefits. As a result, these Governments and corporations and even climate change advocates are talking about rolling back this net zero commitment. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000345\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBjorn Lomborg from the Copenhagen Consensus argues that this growing revolt doesn\u2019t deny climate change but rejects policies that impose enormous economic costs for vanishingly small temperature impacts. Instead, he makes the case for a pivot towards innovation, energy affordability, and human welfare, rather than symbolic emissions targets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000346\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvery single catastrophic narrative can be challenged. Twenty years after \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EAn \u003C/span\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInconvenient Truth\u003C/span\u003E, Al Gore\u2019s dire predictions haven\u2019t played out at all. The world is greening, and do you know what? It has actually been there before. Data shows that nine times more people die from the cold as opposed to the heat. When I was younger, we had a global ice age coming at us. Oh, a few years later, actually, we were wrong. Climate-related deaths have dropped in the last century by 97 percent\u201497 percent. How have we achieved that? By innovation, adaptation, and getting smarter about what we\u2019re doing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000347\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of these other ones is that the world is burning\u2014I\u2019m sorry, but, no, it\u2019s not. It\u2019s not burning. If you take a look at this little graph here, I\u2019m happy to show you that. It\u2019s from real evidence, and what it shows is that the number of these catastrophic burning events have dropped in the last hundred years, as have all of the areas burnt. Fact\u2014sorry about that. Sorry to destroy your narrative. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000348\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnyway, climate change is real, but I have complete faith\u2014[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EInterruption\u003C/span\u003E]\u2014unlike you\u2014that New Zealanders can adapt and innovate. I have complete faith, unlike other members in that party.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000349\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe climate change challenge is not going to end with us next week, next month, next decade, or next century. We have shorter-term challenges to actually focus on: adapt and provide resilience against disasters. Our party has\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000350\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225c8e9a2b6f247b0472a60406a9a8ae84\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The member\u2019s time has expired. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022 data-id=\u00221a2f85f40b1f20336e1bccce2fa9f64e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000351\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290a05c0f561045159bf3351d524a65ac\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a2f85f40b1f20336e1bccce2fa9f64e\u0022\u003ETIM VAN DE MOLEN (National\u2014Waikato) (15:56)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. This week is a good week. This Government has just signed a free-trade agreement with India. It is a momentous occasion because it presents substantial opportunity for New Zealand exporters. It is a huge, potential game-changer for our economy when you think not just about the amazing food and fibre sector but about New Zealand businesses more broadly. They can take up this opportunity now to access the most populous country in the world\u2014over 1.4 billion Indian consumers, who desperately deserve the opportunity to embrace New Zealand\u2019s amazing products.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000352\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis free-trade agreement will give them that opportunity. It\u2019s fantastic for sheep meat and it\u2019s fantastic for horticultural products, for apples, for kiwifruit, and for grapes, as well. It\u2019s amazing for seafood. There are so many areas in it that have been well traversed already, and I won\u2019t go back over them, but the point is that the economic opportunity that comes from deals like this is meaningful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000353\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen we\u2019re in a situation where we\u2019ve had some pretty challenging times as a country, we\u2019ve had really high inflation and we\u2019ve had Government expenditure out of control for a number of years\u2014that\u2019s all improving. We\u2019re making some great progress there in terms of fixing the basics so that we can then get on board and focus on building the future, but the challenge remains that there is still more to do. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000354\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe see that presenting in people\u2019s everyday lives with some of the cost of living pressures that they face and with some of the uncertainty that businesses face around the country from an investment-decision perspective on whether to act or not to act, and that\u2019s why this Government is so relentlessly focused on growing the economic opportunity for New Zealanders, because doing that successfully helps to increase prosperity for all New Zealanders. Lifting wages, creating employment opportunities, driving investment, encouraging innovation\u2014these are all things that New Zealand historically used to do so well. But it feels like\u2014certainly over more recent years\u2014that hasn\u2019t been the case, and we are desperately focused on restoring New Zealand\u2019s mojo in that sense and getting us back performing like we know we\u2019re capable of doing and capturing that opportunity for future generations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000355\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat trade agreement has just now been presented to the House. It will go through the select committee process, and I\u2019m looking forward to having that come before the Foreign Affairs, Defence and Trade Committee. We\u2019ll be meeting tomorrow, and, as we do with all treaty examination processes like this, there will be discussion around submission time frames. We\u2019ll be welcoming contributions from the public to scrutinise the detail of this deal because that\u2019s an important part of the process too, to give confidence to the New Zealand public that we are indeed acting in their best interests. This deal will deliver the many benefits that we have been talking about in this House and out in the public, as well. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000356\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to that process over the coming weeks as we traverse that, before coming back to the House with the legislation to then give effect to it, and, hopefully, it will come into effect in only a few months\u2019 time.  I think that would be a magnificent opportunity and a very good way to wind down this parliamentary cycle, given that only three years ago we made the commitment, as the National Party, to secure a free-trade agreement with India. At the time, the Labour Opposition, then Labour Government\u2014dark days, dark days\u2014said it couldn\u2019t be done, but, of course, we have proven that it can be. That has been delivered just this week.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000357\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat brings us a bit to the election choice later this year, as well, because I think there is a clear opportunity for New Zealanders, where either they can choose a Government that is fixing the basics and building the future or they can choose an Opposition that caused a lot of these challenges that currently need fixing and that didn\u2019t deliver on promises. We just heard Mr Twyford get up and talk about what people in West Auckland are talking about. Well, I bet they\u2019re talking about the lack of housing, the 100,000 KiwiBuild homes that the member was unable to deliver\u2014just one of the many failed promises under the last Government. Labour opposes a lot of what we\u2019ve been doing, but, ultimately, it comes down to a matter of perspective. Our view, very clearly, is that we want to enable New Zealanders to grow, to succeed, and to determine their own future and their own success. Less Government is better, whereas, on the other side of the House, Labour craves being wanted. They want everyone to be entirely dependent on them for their success for their future. We have greater ambition than that on this side of the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000358\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI can\u2019t finish any speech without mentioning the mighty Waikato, of course. Our region is poised for growth. There is huge potential in the Waikato region. We have a fantastic rural sector\u2014a lot of infrastructure going on as well, with the expressway, the airport, and, hopefully, a Great Walk coming as well. The opportunity is there, and we look forward to continuing to deliver that after the election later this year.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000359\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe debate having concluded, the motion lapsed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n    \u003Cdiv class=\u0022HpsHansard\u0022\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000360\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsProceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002262e5a16b43fb7a520e1c7c8cf38047f3\u0022\u003EBills\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000361\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226a85a68eee4390755ea178c51b07bd4b\u0022\u003ECarter Trust Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000362\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226cdf6b0b8b19b69e0497adb429dabc75\u0022\u003EThird Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022 data-id=\u002258d469fdfd1a42d2d454738e6c3d40e3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000363\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022beb91839dc784d58b7c846dc39ac3831\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258d469fdfd1a42d2d454738e6c3d40e3\u0022\u003EHon MIKE BUTTERICK (Minister for Land Information) (16:02)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Carter Trust Amendment Bill be now read a third time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000364\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI rise today to address the House on the third and final reading of the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. This marks the culmination of a very thorough legislative process, and it really is a privilege to stand here in support of a bill that encapsulates the spirit of Carterton, reflecting the values of the community, their compassion, and continuing to build for a stronger future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000365\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wish to acknowledge the robust process that has brought us to this point today. The drafting, the scrutiny, and the refinement of this bill has taken many hours of hard work and dedication from those involved. My sincere thanks go to the Carter Society for their unwavering commitment to the Carterton community, guiding this legislation. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge the Public Trust for their stewardship over the last 129 years, and St Mark\u2019s parish for their foundational support. To members of the Social Services and Community Committee, I would give my thanks, and also to my parliamentary colleagues for the constructive debate and bipartisan support. Last but not least, I want to thank the Carterton community for their unwavering support of the Carter Trust and the Carter Society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000366\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this bill is the enduring legacy of Charles Rooking Carter. Carter was a visionary and philanthropist deeply invested in the wellbeing of Carterton. He devoted himself to public works, education, and the betterment of his adopted community. Carter recognised that the true measure of a town\u2019s success was how it cared for its most vulnerable, a conviction that led him to create structures for the community well before this was an expected obligation or duty in society. Carter\u2019s contributions laid the foundation for the very vibrant community that we cherish today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000367\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe inscription on his headstone, from 1896, reads \u201CCarterton Borough was named in honour of Charles Rooking Carter. His benefactions to Wellington Province include the Wellington Observatory, the Carter Home Parkvale, Carter\u2019s Bush at Gladstone, and many valuable books to Carterton Public Library.\u201D This is just a fraction of what he was remembered for. Following his death, his will affirmed and formalised his commitment to build a home for aged men by establishing the Carter Trust. The assets, including land, funds, and household items, ensured the success of the home and its services, cementing Carter\u2019s legacy as a benefactor of communal wellbeing. The Carter Home was established as a place of refuge and dignity for the elderly in Carterton, later known as the Carterton Home for Aged Poor Men. This home provided care and companionship for those who had contributed a lifetime to the community and now sought comfort in their later years.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000368\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo appreciate the impact of the Carter Home in the early days, we look to the documented experiences of residents from that time. James Cox was described as a permanent member of the colonial working class, who moved to New Zealand in 1880 and spent his life as an itinerant worker not willing to be housed. James\u2019 personal diary, of some significant 800,000 words, documented his daily life until his death in 1925. Upon entering the Carter Home in 1918, James noted, \u201CWith sad resignation, now I am stalled here, I must make myself content.\u201D We must understand that the standard care of the elderly in the early 20\u003Csup\u003Eth\u003C/sup\u003E century was known to be at times substandard and appalling. New Zealand had a disproportionately large adult male population with no family ties that was indeed ageing. This stretched the resources of society to deal with what to do with them in their later years in life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000369\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe solution was old men\u2019s homes, most of those controlled by hospital or charitable aid boards or churches. A very grim picture has been painted of what went on inside them at times. They were usually located in rural areas, remote from shops and other social amenities, quite often underfunded, quite often understaffed, dirty, and those residents who at times were bedridden were sometimes quite neglected. In stark contrast, the Carter Home was run by a local couple, supported by a committee, and did not bear the slightest resemblance to the institutionalised care of the elderly poor described elsewhere. Rather, it was seen as a seventh heaven. The home was not crowded, and with a generous endowment from Charles Rooking Carter, the home had enough rental income to employ staff who cared for the residents. Basic clothing was provided, medical care was paid for, and transport by wagon, and later a motorcar, was provided for taking residents on joy rides, visits to the Carterton shops, rugby matches, and, of course, the good, annual A\u00A0\u0026amp;\u00A0P Show.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000370\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECarter Home had a good reputation in the community, and local groups of volunteers would visit and put on evening entertainment for those in the home. The residents with relative freedom of movement were expected to do a few chores around the place which could be done\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cat their pleasure\u201D. Cox\u2019s diary describes how undertaking these chores became integral to his daily life, helping in the gardens, sharing stories, and rediscovering community in his later years. James Cox\u2019s journey reminds us that the Carter Home was, and remains, more than a service; it is a lifeline. His experience exemplifies the transformative power of community care, turning isolation into inclusion and hardship into hope. The legacy of Cox and others like him endures in the values that guide Carter Court today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000371\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs the decades have passed, Carterton\u2019s needs have evolved, and so did the Carter Trust. The transformation of the original home into Carter Court marked a significant step forward, reflecting advancements in elderly care and a growing appreciation for holistic support. The Carter Society, formed to oversee these developments, has continually adapted its services to changing expectations, ensuring the residents receive not only physical care but also emotional and social support. Today, Carter Court stands as a vibrant facility offering a wide range of services, from independent living units to high-level care. The society\u2019s commitment to continuous improvement is evident in every aspect: staff training, resident engagement, and partnership with health providers. This evolution proves the society\u2019s dedication to upholding the values set forth by Charles Rooking Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000372\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt this point, I would just like to give a shout-out to the residents of the Carter Court, who may be watching right now. I was lucky enough to catch up with a current resident, who has been living there for the last 12 months, at a local Anzac Day rugby match recently, and he could not speak highly enough of the Carter Society, of the staff, and of the fellow residents, and such testimonials are echoed throughout Carterton. Families speak of the peace of mind they feel knowing their loved ones are indeed in caring hands. Residents describe a sense of agency and belonging supported by the programmes that foster social connection and lifelong learning.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000373\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThese stories affirm that the Carter Society\u2019s mission is not only being fulfilled but continually strengthened. The passage of the Carter Trust Amendment Bill is not merely an administrative milestone; it is an investment in Carterton\u2019s future. As our population ages and the demand for quality elderly care rises, our legal and organisational frameworks must keep pace. This bill provides the Carter Society with the flexibility and the security to meet those emerging challenges: expanding facilities, adopting new care models, or partnering with other service providers. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000374\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe progress we celebrate today is the product of genuine collaboration. Community consultation has been a cornerstone, ensuring the voices of residents, families, and staff have been heard and respected. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000375\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wish to also highlight the spirit of bipartisan cooperation that\u2019s characterised the passage of this bill. Members from across the House have recognised the importance of the Carter Society\u2019s mission, setting aside political differences to serve a common good. This unity reflects the best of our parliamentary tradition and the shared values that bind us as New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000376\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn closing, I return to the legacy of Charles Rooking Carter, measured not only in buildings or bequests but in lives touched and community bonds strengthened. The Carter Trust Amendment Bill honours that legacy, equipping the Carter Society to continue its vital mission for decades to come. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000377\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI extend my deepest thanks to all who have contributed to this journey: the Carter Society, the Public Trust, St Mark\u2019s Parish, the legal advisers, the Social Services and Community Committee, and my parliamentary colleagues. May the Carter Trust and the example of Charles Rooking Carter continue to inspire us all. I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000378\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002209bfce7e6eaef637d485026996240519\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u00225710e5bd99f5f0bbad9b849b19bb0826\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000379\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225710e5bd99f5f0bbad9b849b19bb0826\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (16:12)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. Throughout the passage of this bill, the legacy of Charles Rooking Carter has been highlighted at every step of the way, and deservedly so. There aren\u2019t many people that can lay claim to the contribution that he has done, and the foresight that he had at the time. Carterton owes so much, as does Wairarapa, to that which he bequeathed our region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000380\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt wasn\u2019t that long ago that I was walking around a nature reserve that was his land, which  he gave to the people that is still freely available for everybody\u2019s use, and, of course, the reason why we\u2019re here today is to discuss the work that the Carter Society do and that they will be able to do as a result of this bill. The Carter Society do a tremendous job, and there are many families that are grateful for the support and the dignity that the Carter Society offer their loved ones. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000381\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI first had a conversation with the Carter Society about the need for this bill and the prospect of it progressing through the House, I would guess, four or five years ago, or possibly slightly longer. Nevertheless, what that shows is that they identified very early on the need for there to be some changes, and they knew\u2014as is customary and, quite rightly, the case\u2014that a local bill is shepherded through the House by their electorate MP. I acknowledge the work of the Hon Mike Butterick for what he has done to get this through and to bring other people in the Parliament alongside in support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000382\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s not uncommon, as members would know, for a local bill to come before the House that makes a change that many people look at and think, \u201CWhy is this required?\u201D, but it is. Even with the foresight that they had at the time, they might not have anticipated the changing nature of the need, the changing requirements of the care, the changing requirements on those that provide the care, but the needs of the community is at the forefront of what the Carter Society wants to do here, and it would be unfathomable for this Parliament to say no to a society that exists to care for those in need and in their autumn years when, really, they are hamstrung by the way in which they were set up. They no longer have to go and seek permission to simply meet the needs of their community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000383\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think that simple premise is that the Carter Society, which is the last remaining community-owned aged-care provider in Wairarapa, which is up against corporate providers\u2014and which have in recent years seen the provider in Martinborough and the provider in Greytown fall over\u2014have to go through hoops that others don\u2019t. It made no sense, and it does, I think, bring cause for us, as parliamentarians, to reflect on whether there might be an easier way to do this when it is so clear-cut and when the case can be made that, through no harm or whatever else, the rules that were put in place at the time that might have been fitting are so now out of date. But these simple changes, which just make sense and aren\u2019t controversial and which have the full support of Parliament, still have to go through a full process. Perhaps that\u2019s something we could look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000384\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENevertheless, the Labour Party fully supports this bill, as it has done its whole way through. We won\u2019t be making full contributions, simply because\u2014like we did in the committee stage\u2014we want to acknowledge the work that the society does. We want to acknowledge the changes that this bill does, but we don\u2019t want to hold up the progression of this bill any longer than it needs to be. It\u2019ll be a good day for the society and for Carterton when this is passed into law, and we look forward to that happening. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022 data-id=\u0022a5be0c058bd59753a5efbc3d3ff72b91\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000385\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022e66329e431ea47019b41524c6ef2954a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a5be0c058bd59753a5efbc3d3ff72b91\u0022\u003ECELIA WADE-BROWN (Green) (16:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. As a resident of Carterton and a list MP based in the Wairarapa, I\u2019m pleased to support this bill at its third reading\u2014its third and its final reading. This is going to be the last time we hear about it in the House, so, as I did before, I want to again put some thankyous out to Sharon Parker, who\u2019s the chair of the Carter Society; Peter Croft, the treasurer, and the rest of the board; and also the staff and the volunteers at Carter Court\u2014they do a lot of good work.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000386\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is strange, as my colleague from the Wairarapa has also said, that we have to go through, in fact, a longer process than some of the bills rushed through in urgency over something that we actually all agree about. I\u2019m not sure how we could amend the Standing Orders or other processes so that really non-controversial bills that still need some scrutiny and still need some input from the community, but they are, basically, where a good thing is done. Or maybe we should just enjoy the fact that we all agree and are supporting it, for a change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000387\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to say some things about Charles Rooking Carter, who left his money to some many good causes. You\u2019ve got the Carter Observatory, you\u2019ve got the Carter Reserve\u2014that beautiful bit of ecological wilderness that I nearly was late for the Anzac ceremony at Anzac Bridge because I was doing a bit of iNaturalist week at the Carter Reserve. He had a broad range of interests, he was also a champion for workers\u2019 rights\u2014what\u2019s not to like? You\u2019ve got reserves, you\u2019ve got housing, and you\u2019ve got long-term investments that have also created the land trusts in the Wairarapa, which really go a long way to help the communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000388\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet\u2019s look at what stands out about Carter\u2019s Court today. In a landscape of, I think, just under 700 different retirement homes in New Zealand, Carter Court is a shining example of a community-led facility that is run for the community by the community, rather than for the shareholder. There are some much bigger questions we should be asking about aged care, about contracts, about what proportion people pay for their own care depending on their situations, what assets they may or may not hold, but I love it that we have got a not-for-profit care home offering a range of accommodation options, and there are a number of different options, from independent living through to complete care, which means that you can age in place. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000389\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EYou can stay there with the people you\u2019ve got to know in the town that you\u2019ve got to know. It\u2019s very convenient for getting to the medical centre, the dentist, the rail station, the cafes, the library. It\u2019s not far from these places and there is a Carter Court van with wheelchair access and so on. So even if you can\u2019t walk to the Carterton Club, you can still get there. It is a bit of a pay in to Carterton that it\u2019s a small town with quite so many facilities, but then I must admit that I am biased about Carterton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000390\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELastly, I just want to say that this bill ensures that Charles Rooking Carter\u2019s vision continues, but in a contemporary form. So thank you to the Hon Mike Butterick, the Hon Kieran McAnulty, and all the other MPs who will be supporting the Carter Trust Amendment Bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022 data-id=\u002258ccd97810db58255ee9a5aa705f5cb4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000391\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002216829a90e47644e3809ecc77bed3916d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002258ccd97810db58255ee9a5aa705f5cb4\u0022\u003EHon NICOLE McKEE (Minister for Courts) (16:21)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my pleasure to stand on behalf of the ACT Party and support the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. It\u2019s making just a few moderate changes in order to allow the winding up of the Carter Trust. Listening to members here speaking about Charles Rooking Carter and his ability to use his estate for the benefit and betterment of New Zealanders is quite outstanding. As the Minister who has oversight for the Public Trust and also hearing that they\u2019ve spent 129 years looking after this particular trust also gives me some pleasure to see that they\u2019re able to wind it up in such a good way, including paying $50,000 to the Anglican parish of Carterton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000392\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003ESo to not prolong this any longer, I\u2019d just like to say that we do support this bill. We commend the member for bringing this about and also thank the Public Trust for 129 years of looking after this trust. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u0022c82ae07f8675739d7b783a9c882536b3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000393\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c82ae07f8675739d7b783a9c882536b3\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (16:22)\u003C/span\u003E: I was watching very carefully. I had a meeting that I had to run down from, so I was like, \u201CHow close can I go?\u201D I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak to the bill. I wanted to start off by congratulating the Hon Mike Butterick. Actually, Mike, I\u2019ll congratulate you for both being an honourable now but also for the work that you\u2019ve done on this bill. Well done. I really enjoy just listening to the presentation you gave and the story and the background and the extra depth that you provided to that, so thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000394\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also wanted to congratulate the Public Trust for what is, essentially, its 130 years of service to this trust. I think that\u2019s a fantastic service that they\u2019ve given, and to the Carter Trust and the Carter Society for all the work not only for what they do on a day-to-day basis but also the work that they\u2019ve done before this bill even came to the House with Mike Butterick but also the work that they have done with Mike to help shepherd this bill through the House. So I thank you all for that work. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000395\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s great that we\u2019ve got to the stage of a third reading today, and knowing that this is a piece of legislation which will go through today, will get the Royal assent, and then become law. I think that is always great to see, also, that it is with the unanimous support of this House, as it should be, because it\u2019s something which is for the community benefit.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000396\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI did notice, if I look back to the discussions that the select committee had, every time, I think, we\u2019ve seen a bill\u2014whether it\u2019s a private bill or a local bill\u2014the question gets asked, \u201CDid we need to have the time of Parliament taken up with this bill? Is it something that required Parliament?\u201D Well, in this case, because there is a Carter Trust Act, which is the thing we\u2019re amending, of course, it\u2019s an Act of Parliament, so you actually need Parliament to amend it. So, yes, the answer to that and quite clearly the select committee has said that they were satisfied on that matter, because, being an Act, you need Parliament to amend that Act.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000397\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook, I wanted to say just a few words about Charles Rooking Carter, as some others have. Every time I pass through Carterton, which is very, very regularly these days, passing the statue of Charles Rooking Carter, which has been there now for the last 10 or 11 years, who watches over the town of his name, it\u2019s a reminder of the legacy that the man left to the Wairarapa\u2014and to Carterton, in particular. I think it\u2019s a fitting memorial of gratitude to a man who had such an immensely positive influence on the early development of Wairarapa. The fact that we\u2019re doing this bill today says that that influence continues through this time, which is now 130 years after he died. So that is a really significant legacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000398\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard the story: born in the UK, came here as one of the early pioneers, builder\u2019s son, carpenter, man with a strong interest at a young age in worker\u2019s rights, and then clearly developed that interest in care for older people as he went through his life. Clearly a visionary and a man who was ahead of his time. He arrived in New Zealand in 1850 with his new wife Jane Robieson and walked through to the Wairarapa, as they did in those days. They were hard men and hard people as well. He continued to be a builder and built a lot of things, including part of building the predecessor to this building, which is here, the House of assembly for New Zealand. As the community\u2019s political representative, he represented the Wairarapa in the Wellington Provincial Council from 1857 to 1864, the General Assembly for Wairarapa from 1859 to 1865 and, of course, that legacy is honoured still in the name of Carterton.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000399\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHe was a generous benefactor. We\u2019ve already heard that he\u2014we always called it the Carter Observatory rather than the Wellington observatory, but the Carter Observatory; that is his name. He was a generous benefactor to libraries as well, to museums, being involved in the Greytown Lands Trust and Masterton Lands Trust\u2014again, a legacy which is still being enjoyed by the people of the Wairarapa today. In Carterton, he was involved with obtaining land for a whole lot of public works, police stations, cemeteries. We\u2019ve heard the Hon Kieran McAnulty talking about the reserve that he walked through which is in the name of Charles Rooking Carter. So Charles Rooking Carter: builder, contractor, farmer, politician, and in this case a philanthropist and a generous benefactor to the community of the Wairarapa. He died in 1896, but his legacy is still there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000400\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo right the way through this time, when he set up the will, the executor and the trustee was the Public Trust. That\u2019s still the case today. This bill will change that so that is no longer necessary. But, again, I thank the Public Trust for the work that they have done over that 130. His will established the home for \u201Caged poor men\u201D. The Hon Mike Butterick has talked about the great work that was done there and being a man ahead of his time and the great work that is done now in its successor, which is the Carter Court, which has some 50 units. It provides also for aged care and respite care. So they do a great job. So that is a long legacy which has gone all the way down from 1896 from Charles Rooking Carter\u2019s will, through the Act of 1961, and is honoured again in the bill which we will pass today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000401\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELikewise, the support for St Mark\u2019s Anglican parish in Carterton. Again, that legacy comes all the way through today, and then the upkeep of Mr Carter\u2019s grave. Now, I understand that that was dealt with slightly differently, but there\u2019s an undertaking to do that. Again, all of those things honour the legacy of a man who has contributed so much to the Wairarapa and to this region.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000402\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m going to finish there, but just to say that I think this legislation is a fine tribute to the legacy of a man who has contributed so much, and I want to commend this bill to the House and congratulate everyone involved in it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000403\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002266642b5841905ee6f558bbb09ee79b6e\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: This is a split call\u2014Mike Davidson.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022 data-id=\u0022b4c80df5e1d099fa103eaa2c15d452b6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000404\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b4c80df5e1d099fa103eaa2c15d452b6\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON (Green) (16:28)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Green Party to speak in support of this bill. Actually, when I first saw it come up, the Carter Trust, as a Canterbury boy I thought, \u201CMaybe this is the Carter family\u201D, so I was quite interested to have a look at it. But, no, it wasn\u2019t. It was obviously the Carter Trust from Wairarapa. Actually, I\u2019ve not been to Carterton\u2014apologies for that. So it\u2019s actually been quite good to be in here and get a bit of a history lesson about\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000405\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022eed06456c1ef3e3c503adb37e90d3f2d\u0022\u003EHon Kieran McAnulty\u003C/span\u003E: You need to sort that out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000406\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002246ff2b1cee1408ab042ff7f6d48407b5\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: I know. I need to go there\u2014Charles Rooking Carter and Carterton and Wairarapa. It\u2019s been quite good and there\u2019s been a lot of long calls on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000407\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223bb897ab8d624eca84bc4356dec862f4\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bb8ffb8ece85018d81ffeb024385f3c3\u0022\u003EH\u016Bhana Lyndon\u003C/span\u003E: Get over the hill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000408\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022dca7b20260b94cda81a3187e58a1d7c9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002202b02a516bd1b4981795277695544704\u0022\u003EMIKE DAVIDSON\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah. Ha, ha! I\u2019ve heard a lot about the place, so it\u2019s quite good. I won\u2019t take as much time as everybody else, but I thought at least I\u2019d get to a minute this time. I think last time I spoke, it was about 20 seconds. It\u2019s actually quite good to see that with the termination of this trust, there\u2019s going to be $50,000 going to the Anglican parish, which is actually really good. I guess it speaks to, actually, some of the stuff that the trust has been doing over the time it\u2019s been in existence and, actually, the work of other MPs prior that have been trying to do this work. I\u2019d like to acknowledge Mike Butterick and the work he\u2019s done to progress this, and I also acknowledge the promotion that he\u2019s recently had. On that note, I commend this bill to the House. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u0022c485d202e67627ba4fc165354bb3275a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000409\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022c485d202e67627ba4fc165354bb3275a\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (16:29)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise and speak on the Carter Trust Amendment Bill in its third reading. It was an honour to be the chair of the Social Services and Community Committee who heard submissions on this and has helped shepherd it to this point. I just want to acknowledge the local MP, the Hon Mike Butterick, for his work and advocacy on this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000410\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019d just note that Charles Rooking Carter was an independent member of this House back in 1859 to 1865, representing the Wairarapa electorate. He was a very strong advocate of Wairarapa\u2019s small farm settlers. Fast forward 167 later, and we have a very strong representative member of Parliament doing the same thing. History doesn\u2019t repeat itself, but it does rhyme. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000411\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn respect of Charles Rooking Carter\u2019s legacy, I think we\u2019ve heard a lot in the House about this, and I don\u2019t intend to just cover it all again. He certainly made a very strong contribution to the Wairarapa, which is still being felt 170-plus years later. That\u2019s why we\u2019re here with the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. This is obviously enabling the Public Trust to distribute the Carter Trust\u2019s assets and to continue the work and continue the vision that he had all those years ago to support people in their aged years with accommodation and support those who otherwise would not have that support. That vision and that desire is still strong today. It\u2019s still the intention to carry that on, but it needs to be modernised for the modern era, and that is exactly what is happening here.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000412\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to thank everyone who\u2019s done the work to help guide this through. We\u2019ve had some very good legal advice, great support from the clerks and from justice officials. I would say that it was appropriate for this bill to come to the House to be dealt with, given that the will had been amended, effectively, and the trust was changed. I do think there is work for this House to do\u2014I think an omnibus bill, ideally\u2014to be able to deal with bills of this nature if there is consensus that they should be changed, and it doesn\u2019t need the attention of the House. That is a discussion for another day, but I think there is a willingness across the House to look at that, and something for this Parliament to consider, going forward. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000413\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn the meantime, I just wish to wish everyone success in the ongoing distribution of assets and the ongoing work that Mr Carter envisioned all those years, and I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u00221850e35650e2bbda15e8e3ccf513d0fc\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000414\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221850e35650e2bbda15e8e3ccf513d0fc\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert) (16:32)\u003C/span\u003E: I also was on the Social Services and Community Committee, which looked at this bill, and I tautoko the things that people have said and the hard work of everybody involved. I also hold the portfolio for Labour that is about community and voluntary work. It is definitely something that I think our committee was interested in\u2014that we have these bills that come through where we can see that the intentions of the parties and the need for our community and voluntary organisations and our philanthropists to be able to bring their intention to bear in a new environment is very real.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000415\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe really do need to look at the way that we can streamline the morphing of these intentions\u2014not in any way to undermine what the intentions of the philanthropists involved were, but to enhance them and to enhance the wellbeing of our society. It\u2019s not the first bill of this kind that\u2019s come to our committee\u2014in fact, we\u2019ve got several at the moment. It is something that we\u2019re taking seriously as a committee. It\u2019s something where one of the people who came in on these bills, I\u2019m meeting with personally to talk about how we can change things, because it does seem like a really important piece of work. We need to think very carefully about philanthropy in this country. We don\u2019t have enough people donating to our society in this way, and what they give is so rich and so important.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000416\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI look forward to being able to work collaboratively with the people who\u2019ve been through this experience, and been careful about those intentions, to come up with a better solution that is systemic change\u2014that might mean that we are able, as a Parliament, to do something to make sure that when money is left like this, we not only honour the people but we honour the intention and we honour the wellbeing that they are trying to imbue in our society. Thank you. I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u0022d178bcb1b76e444b8db4ad20d01e0477\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000417\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d178bcb1b76e444b8db4ad20d01e0477\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier) (16:34)\u003C/span\u003E: I haven\u2019t had the privilege, until this point, to speak on this bill, so I\u2019m really pleased to be able to do that in the third reading. Can I just acknowledge, as everyone else has, the Hon Mike Butterick and his sponsorship of this bill. For those of you at home who don\u2019t understand how private bills work, they\u2019re community bills that we don\u2019t really see anymore and that often need our intervention to modernise them. It\u2019s wonderful members, like the Hon Mike Butterick, who come to the rescue of these organisations. They\u2019re usually quite old school, but set up for the right reasons, and we end up having to intervene in modern days, like we have now, to try to make them realistic.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000418\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard time and time again about the reasons for the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. I just want to say, when they\u2019re established, they\u2019re established for the right reasons, and when they are changed to be able to terminate them, like in this particular case, it\u2019s done for the right reasons. It\u2019s done so the Carter Society can actually continue to operate as best it can, because it no longer needs to get the sign off and approval from the Minister of Health on every single occasion it wants to make a change, which we know was not the intention in the first instance. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000419\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think this is where we come to as a National Party within the Government. We don\u2019t believe in extra Government; we believe in limited Government. It is one of our values. Community organisations, philanthropists, and the societies and trusts that they establish and that go on to contribute in communities don\u2019t need the Government. They haven\u2019t, they don\u2019t in the future, and it is wonderful to make sure that they\u2019re independent and continue to be independent, so I am very, very supportive of this change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000420\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECan I also just say, we hear a lot of times from the House\u2014particularly from members opposite\u2014that you must legislate to ensure that these things happen, because otherwise they won\u2019t. I\u2019m really buoyed by the fact that there was complete agreeance that the area within this bill about the protection or the care for the grave of Mr Carter would be maintained and cared for regardless of it being legislated. In fact, it wasn\u2019t the intention of his will to have that be the case, of course. I don\u2019t think anyone would be so vain as to say that their gravesite must be maintained, but the community feels so fondly towards this individual that they would do that of their own kindness and their own sense of duty. I think that is important to note. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000421\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPhilanthropy is alive and well. This is a wonderful organisation within Wairarapa, and it\u2019s great to hear that there\u2019s support around the House for the Carter Society and Carter House, and the genuinely deserving people that live in Carter House, and that there is longstanding support for Mr Carter that has gone well beyond the need for this particular bill. I think it\u2019s brilliant that we\u2019re here to debate it, that it\u2019s in its third reading, and that this goes back to the Carter Society, who no longer need Government intervention, because that is the point that we are for today. With that, I commend the bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000422\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259067f82a898d44bd3de452c65de8ce1\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Shanan Halbert\u2014this is a split call.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022 data-id=\u00226a5185f55a12114a1ceed1f21588a737\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000423\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226a5185f55a12114a1ceed1f21588a737\u0022\u003ESHANAN HALBERT (Labour) (16:37)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s my privilege to speak on the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. Just to open, can I acknowledge my colleague across the House Mike Butterick, MP for Wairarapa. Congratulations on getting to this particular stage, my friend. I know that both members\u2019 bills and local bills in this House really speak to the direct needs of our communities across the country, and I know that one of the more recent bills that we moved through was not too dissimilar to this\u2014the bill for Takapuna Boating Club on Auckland\u2019s North Shore\u2014where we just needed to make some technical changes in order to enable them to continue to serve our communities. It\u2019s good to see this particular piece of legislation before us all in the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000424\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECan I acknowledge, out there, the community and voluntary sector\u2014particularly those that have a charitable status\u2014and the work that they do to help our communities thrive, whether it be seniors or whether it be young people.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000425\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EToday, Labour supports this bill as a set of technical but very useful updates that simplify the administration of a historic trust. I know that it will make a significant change and make things easier for the trustees and the organisation itself that they will no longer need ministerial sign-off\u2014albeit a minor administrative task. They will no longer have to do that, and, no doubt, that will save them days, weeks, months, and potentially years not to have to go through that process. On this side of the House, we\u2019re very supportive of this bill today, supportive of the community and voluntary sector, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u002298a90bdaa98006d4bf2bd1581c3e0f0b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000426\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002298a90bdaa98006d4bf2bd1581c3e0f0b\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (16:39)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. It gives me great pleasure to rise on the third reading of the Carter Trust Amendment Bill. Firstly, to acknowledge my friend and colleague\u2014last time we considered the legislation, actually, at the committee of the whole House stage, Mike Butterick was just Mike Butterick, and today in the third reading, after the intervening period, he\u2019s become the Hon. He\u2019s always been honourable to me, but it\u2019s very well recognised for him, and it\u2019s good to have this legislation\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000427\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00225322e0a4529b497cbc59faf0515037dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ed02e23e5927cf753f241ab8ff8efc80\u0022\u003EShanan Halbert\u003C/span\u003E: Oh yeah, he\u2019s looking a bit cute\u2014hug it out!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000428\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002241de276e7f906013ecd6f59d92538ccf\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Don\u2019t make me blush\u2014don\u2019t make me blush. I just want to recognise him for his leadership on this local bill, which, like many members in their previous contributions have said, is sort of an archaic process that Parliament has to go through just to, in this case, wind something up which has been a great benefactor to the local community, but we have to go through this sort of long, drawn-out parliamentary process to enable something that\u2019s quite simple and a rather necessary fix and, actually, which, universally, political parties across the House actually agree with. So I think there are some learnings, potentially, for us as parliamentarians as to the way we operate in Parliament, to consider whether that is the way we want to operate moving forward in the future.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000429\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the things I thought was really interesting in the process and progress of the legislation was during the committee of the whole House stage\u2014because for us, yes, whilst it is a local bill and you don\u2019t filibuster the committee of the whole House, for many of us who haven\u2019t been involved in the process involving the legislation, there needs to be an opportunity for us to gain an understanding of why it\u2019s come to Parliament, what it\u2019s trying to achieve, and what it\u2019s going to deliver for the local community. That\u2019s the viewpoint I took through the committee of the whole House stage when Mike Butterick was sitting in the chair.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000430\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA couple of questions I asked, and I think I really want to tease out in this contribution, were firstly about: why are we here? What is the purpose and the background of what we\u2019re actually trying to achieve with this private bill? It was about the bill being in relation to the Carter Trust Act from 1961 and that, effectively\u2014and as Mike Butterick clearly outlined in his response to me at the time\u2014that was now out of date and it was actually impeding the efficient operations of the Carter Court Care Home. Once you hear that sort of response, you get an understanding of, OK, I get why this legislation has had to come to Parliament, why we\u2019ve gone through this process, and what we\u2019re trying to achieve.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000431\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the interesting pieces I picked up when I read the Social Services and Community Committee\u2019s report on the legislation was around the upkeep of Mr Carter\u2019s grave, because in their report the select committee noted that the upkeep of the grave is not actually included in the legislation. So I really wanted to know, to honour the legacy of Mr Carter and everything he\u2019d done, why the upkeep of his grave wasn\u2019t included. It was reiterated to me that the Carter Society has already given a formal undertaking themselves to continue to maintain the grave, and the select committee themselves were happy with that and satisfied with the assurance that they\u2019d received. The obligation actually was in the original 1896 will, and then it was added in the 1961 Act. So the society will just continue to respectfully practise as the condition of the scheme around Mr Carter\u2019s grave.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000432\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other one, and the final one, I want to touch on is around the impact on those residents who live in the care home. It would never be the intention of us in this House or with this piece of legislation to want to impact on their level of service or the level of care that they receive whilst in the care home. So I asked Mike Butterick, when he sat in the chair, around how the bill would affect the residents of the Carter Court Care Home, and whether any residents, for example, will face higher fees or reduced services. I was given the assurance by the member in charge of the bill that residents will see no negative impact. Fees for contracted, long-term residential care are already set nationally under the Residential Care and Disability Support Services Act, and removing the updated ministerial power does not change what residents pay. I was really pleased to receive that assurance from Mike Butterick himself.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000433\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s taken a long time to get here, but I think we\u2019ve finally reached the last hurdle. It feels like this has been a protracted and drawn-out process, but it\u2019s been really well worth doing in the sense of getting to this point. I commend the local MP Mike Butterick for his leadership on it, for everybody involved in getting it to this point, and I\u2019m really pleased to support this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022e29f23381cd070de2dfce92304f5125a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000434\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e29f23381cd070de2dfce92304f5125a\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour) (16:44)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Labour Party to speak in support of this bill at its third reading. They\u2019ve been working on this for quite some time, and I\u2019m really pleased to be speaking to it today; also, like everyone in the House, acknowledging the Hon Mike Butterick for bringing this on their behalf.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000435\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt its heart, you know, this is modest, but it\u2019s an important piece of legislation. It\u2019s not trying to reinvent the wheel, and it\u2019s not some kind of sweeping reform, but what it does is what we\u2019re all often called to do: tidy up arrangements and align them with modern practice, and make sure the intentions of the past can still serve the needs of today. That\u2019s exactly what this bill does. From time to time, this House is asked not to create something brand new but to be a careful steward of what has come before us. We\u2019re also asked to look after legacies\u2014you know, legal, financial, and social, as well\u2014and to make sure that they\u2019re still working for the people that they are intended to help. That\u2019s what this bill is about. It\u2019s about stewardship; it\u2019s about making sure a historical charitable arrangement continues to deliver real value to the Carterton community, and Labour supports that approach.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000436\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to quickly acknowledge the Carter Society, which does tremendous work in the Carterton community. They have been working towards these changes for quite some time, and it\u2019s good to see that effort now reaching the finish line. Also, you know, this is exactly the sort of practical, community-focused legislation that members\u2019 days should be used for. It may not grab the front page, but it will make a genuine difference to people\u2019s lives. For that reason, I commend the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022 data-id=\u0022fa12269eae9e25544ab64e8ddc28c3b1\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000437\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022694c3cef004e40d78a26712dce80070d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022fa12269eae9e25544ab64e8ddc28c3b1\u0022\u003ESUZE REDMAYNE (National\u2014Rangit\u012Bkei) (16:46)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise to take a call in support of the Carter Trust Amendment Bill in this, its final reading. I want to start by congratulating my colleague the Hon Mike Butterick, Minister for Land Information, Associate Minister of Agriculture, and MP for the Wairarapa\u2014a champion of his Wairarapa electorate, a champion of rural and provincial New Zealand, a practical man with a quintessential number eight wire mentality. Mike gets stuff done, and this bill is a shining example of what a dedicated local MP can achieve for their community, taking a complex, decades-old issue and navigating it through this House to a very sensible conclusion.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000438\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is also about honouring a legacy and empowering a community to look after its own. Charles Rooking Carter was a man of vision, leaving a bequest that has supported the Wairarapa for over a century. However, times change, and sometimes legislation has to change with them. The 1961 Act has become a hindrance rather than a help.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000439\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs regional MPs, we know that community assets are best managed by those who understand them and their communities, and this bill does exactly that. By winding up the antiquated trust structures and transferring management to the Carter Society, we\u2019re ensuring that the spirit of Mr Carter\u2019s gift is maintained and, indeed, enhanced for the future. This bill futureproofs Mr Carter\u2019s legacy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000440\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAt the heart of this bill are the people who call Carter Court Care home and the wh\u0101nau who rely on it. What began in 1901 as the Carter Home for aged poor men, housing around 20 residents, has grown into significant community asset that now supports more than 100 people aged 65 and over. This bill puts governance where it belongs: closer to the community it serves so decisions can be made promptly, transparently, and with local knowledge. By modernising the 1961 settings and removing unnecessary hurdles, the Carter Society can focus on what matters most: stable operations, quality care, and long-term planning. Above all, it provides continuity and certainty so residents and their families can have confidence that Mr Carter\u2019s legacy will continue to support the Wairarapa for generations to come.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000441\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a proud day for the Wairarapa, for the community, and it\u2019s a testament to the Hon Mike Butterick\u2019s persistence in delivering on his promises to his electorate. I am delighted to commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000442\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000443\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a third time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000444\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ab804607fec9fb77b6075732ff2bd6c6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Congratulations to the Wairarapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000445\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d66387be9e46481cbac9a06ef77db2e7\u0022\u003EModern Slavery Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000446\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002286a6e3aa9767ef20c63eb925145ca057\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u00226e48411d3c012df492e4cab7a828783e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000447\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00226e48411d3c012df492e4cab7a828783e\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (16:50)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Modern Slavery Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Education and Workforce Committee to consider the bill. At the appropriate time, I intend to move that the bill be reported to the House by 31\u00A0August 2026.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000448\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill has been the work of many, and it has also been many years in getting to this House and this stage of first reading. I think it was back in March 2021 when a hundred businesses signed a letter asking for the Government to introduce modern slavery legislation. For myself, I\u2019ve probably been working on this particular issue for the last three years\u2014a lot shorter than many other members of the NGO community and those who have been advocating for action on modern slavery in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000449\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, it won\u2019t be lost on anyone today that this bill has come to the House through a slightly different path, and I think it\u2019s important to acknowledge that. This is the first time that Standing Order 288, as it is currently drafted in our Standing Orders, has been used to bring a member\u2019s bill to the House, and I hope very much that it won\u2019t be the last time that this happens. I think, often, when we can find common ground, and we can stand together on important issues, that is when we can truly make enduring change for New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000450\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the parties that got us over that threshold, which we passed quite comfortably in the end: the National Party, the Labour Party, and the Greens. Thank you for standing with us to get this bill across the line, and thank you to those other parties that, hopefully, will support this bill moving forward. I have to also acknowledge my colleague whose name is also on this bill, Greg Fleming. Greg, \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Eka nui te mihi ki a koe, e hoa, m\u014D t\u014D mahi i t\u0113nei kaupapa\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000451\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EGreg, many thanks to you, my friend, for your work on this initiative.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000452\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill has a journey to go through in terms of the select committee process, but because it almost feels like we\u2019ve been working so long on this, I feel I should at least acknowledge some of the people who have worked on it to date because it is a significant achievement. I want to acknowledge especially Rebekah Armstrong from World Vision, who I know will be watching this debate. I want to also thank the other members of World Vision, and also the young ambassadors, some of whom are present in the gallery today. Thank you for your very strong advocacy in this matter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000453\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge Tearfund. Tearfund have been working on modern slavery and advocating against modern slavery for many, many years. I want to acknowledge legal experts Rebecca Kingi and Jacob Parry and, additionally, the members of the modern slavery leadership advisory group that was chaired by Rob Fyfe; the New Zealand Council of Trade Unions and the Public Service Association Youth, who have been actively campaigning on this issue; the Human Rights Commission; and also faith communities, such as the Anglican Church. This list of people indicates the broad support that this bill has in the community and the need for action on it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000454\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat is modern slavery? Obviously, it\u2019s something that this bill is opposed to. It\u2019s some of the worst forms of conduct that an individual can conduct against another person: slavery, forced marriage, child labour, trafficking in persons, debt bondage or serfdom, forced labour or exploitative labour, servitude, and sexual exploitation. That\u2019s the modern slavery that is covered in this bill, as defined by this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000455\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIs it a problem in New Zealand? Well, unfortunately, it\u2019s a problem around the world and also in New Zealand. There are 50\u00A0million people who are trapped in modern slavery globally, it\u2019s estimated. Many of those people might be involved in supply chains that New Zealanders interact with. It\u2019s estimated that New Zealand households spend $77 per week on products associated with modern slavery. I should also note that one in four of those people who are estimated to be living in modern slavery are children. Two-thirds of the people who are living in modern slavery live in our region, the Asia-Pacific region, and we know that we trade extensively with that region, and that we also have responsibilities and play a leadership role within that region, so it makes it especially important that New Zealand takes action on modern slavery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000456\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOf course, I\u2019ve been talking about this being a global problem. This is also an issue within New Zealand, as well, and it\u2019s estimated that 8,000 people currently live in modern slavery conditions in New Zealand. One is too many, and so this bill is a good bill. It\u2019s not a perfect bill, but it is a bill that will address these very, very serious and significant issues for people who are living through some of the toughest of times.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000457\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHow will this bill go about addressing these significant issues that the world faces and, also, that New Zealand faces? It will bring New Zealand into line with comparable jurisdictions like the EU, the UK, and Australia, who already have anti - modern slavery regimes to address these issues. It would establish a statutory framework to require large businesses to report on their supply chains, and would also create a register. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000458\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, it\u2019s important to note that this is about trying to find issues of modern slavery when they arise so that they can be addressed. It is not about finding modern slavery and then saying, \u201CWell, that company is now blacklisted, and we\u2019re not going to trade with them at all.\u201D It\u2019s actually about encouraging those companies to identify instances and actually address them, and that is how the important change to reverse these horrendous conditions for people is actually achieved. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000459\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill will also increase public awareness and support victims of modern slavery. It provides opportunities for review on the effectiveness of the bill, and it also requires consideration to set up a specialist body to combat modern slavery, and for a Minister to actually report on modern slavery as well. This bill is not toothless. There are consequences for those organisations and individuals that it applies to that do not comply with it. That\u2019s in terms of offences and, also, with accessing public funds and public contracts.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000460\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI mentioned that this bill is not perfect. This bill was hard for us to draft because we did it as a member\u2019s bill. We relied on the expertise of people outside Parliament, and we also relied heavily on our very excellent drafters within Parliament, but this is not a bill that has been drafted with the support of a ministry or an organisation who would usually advise on the drafting of a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000461\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a bill that is very good. It\u2019s a good bill, it will make a good law, and it\u2019s the right thing to do, but it certainly is something where I know both myself and Greg Fleming will be encouraging the select committee to look at it in terms of the way it works, and in terms of the provisions that are incorporated within it; to look at its effectiveness; to listen\u2014truly listen\u2014to the submitters, especially those who will be impacted by this bill, and to make sure that this bill is something that is going to actually work for New Zealand. This is not to create work but to actually address the serious issues of those who are living in modern slavery. That is, hopefully, what the select committee will do. It\u2019s actually a really big job for them, and so I thank the Education and Workforce Committee for taking on that role.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000462\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe intention of this bill is to also look at the consistency with comparable jurisdictions. We know that many of these large organisations that will be covered by this bill already report on modern slavery, and we don\u2019t want to duplicate that unnecessarily, and so if there are ways of saving time, being efficient, reporting on similar things, and making sure that the organisations can utilise the fact that these reports are already being written in countries like, for example, Australia, then that is something that, I think, the committee should definitely look at.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000463\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis isn\u2019t a bill that comes to the House with unanimous support. For those parties that may stand against the bill, I\u2019d just say to them that it\u2019s not too late to change your mind and support this bill. This is a practical bill that will address a very serious problem. There\u2019s huge support within New Zealand businesses and with New Zealanders. I think the survey that was taken in 2002 showed that 81\u00A0percent of New Zealanders support New Zealand taking action on modern slavery. It\u2019s supported by Business New Zealand. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000464\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is not controversial. It\u2019s the right thing to do. I say to New Zealanders: those parties that do vote against this bill\u2014when parties tell you who they are, believe them. If they stand against actions like modern slavery, then you know that that is the type of party that they are and that they purport to be. It is up to them to\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000465\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022bf4f72d9f92ea4ce6c18ea24fa66f4ec\u0022\u003ETeanau Tuiono\u003C/span\u003E: Explain themselves.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000466\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226efa1a37c6c7aa478899add2d8d36f4d\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH\u003C/span\u003E: \u2014explain themselves to New Zealand if they decide to do that, but, again, the invitation to join us in this bill is still there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000467\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EMy 10 minutes is up. I look forward to participating in the select committee process. I want to thank again the many, many hundreds, if not thousands, of people who have advocated for this change for a really long time. We\u2019re not there yet, but this is a significant step forward, it\u2019s a historic day for the New Zealand Parliament, and I commend this bill to the House. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000468\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002292a93149dab6efe25f949d3c94732ac3\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022 data-id=\u0022e6e5a97c674577ca82e8fd458c3ee8a9\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000469\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e6e5a97c674577ca82e8fd458c3ee8a9\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie) (17:00)\u003C/span\u003E: This is indeed, as my friend and colleague Camilla Belich has just said, a historic day, both in terms of how we have arrived here but, even more importantly, it is the legislation that now begins its journey at this point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000470\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 hoki koe, Camilla, m\u014D te wh\u0101nui me te roa o t\u014D mahi i runga i t\u0113nei kaupapa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000471\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThanks to you also, Camilla, for the breadth and length of your work on this initiative.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000472\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s been brilliant to work with you for the last year and a half now, so thank you so much for your support. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000473\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to add my acknowledgments and my thankyous to those of Camilla. I want to start with my boss and my friend\u2014that is, the Prime Minister\u2014for the simple truth is that without his support and his urging on this issue, we wouldn\u2019t be here today. This really has been a whole-of-Parliament process to get us here, and Camilla has laid that out in terms of us being able to use Standing Order 288 for the first time to actually be able to co-sponsor a bill. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000474\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut none of that would have been possible without the support of my caucus, and so thank you to my caucus\u2014thank you to every one of you for giving me the chance to do this, and thank you, particularly, to the Prime Minister for the urgency that you have brought to this. I remember speaking to the Prime Minister many years ago about this before he came into Parliament, and I knew that this was a passion of his. For political reasons that have been well canvassed now, we weren\u2019t able to bring this forward as a Government bill, and so the opportunity to bring it through the track that we have, and through to today, is something that he has been 100 percent behind and I thank him deeply for that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000475\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo Barbara Kuriger, who moments ago was in the Chair: I wanted to thank her for agreeing to take the bill out of the member\u2019s tin that she had had in there for quite some time so as to allow this bill to make its passage. In fact, that bill had its own genesis in the outstanding and long and dedicated work of Simon O\u2019Connor. Simon, I know that you have stood in this House for 12 years and advocated on this matter, and I want to acknowledge the groundbreaking work that you did there and the foundations that you have laid that we now build upon. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000476\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo Alex Prendergast and Kaylee Hill, two remarkable students from just outside of Christchurch who, six years ago, approached their then very new and local MP Nicola Grigg with an idea for a member\u2019s bill. That member\u2019s bill became my member\u2019s bill three years later, and that was the bill that has since been picked up by Minister Paul Goldsmith and is now making its way through the Government Order Paper.  That addresses the inconsistencies in the prosecution of human trafficking both domestically and internationally, and it was working with those two students on that bill that opened, for me, the doorway into this far more substantive piece of work that is before us now. Thank you, Alex and Kaylee, for your vision and for your application. I really hope that the two of you do choose to serve in areas adjacent to this House, and maybe even one day here, because you certainly have proved that you have all that it takes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000477\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo Selwyn Coles, my friend at Te Ana Tapu in T\u0101maki Makaurau\u2014it was about two years ago that he handed me a copy of his Master\u2019s thesis that he had completed at the University of Oxford in pursuit of a Master of Laws, and his thesis topic was looking at the arguments for and against introducing a modern slavery reporting framework in this country. It was an incredibly thoughtful piece of work. He spent a year of his life on it, and it canvassed well all of the objections and doubts about the efficacy of the proposed law.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000478\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDuring the select committee process, I look forward to bringing that work of Selwyn\u2019s forward because I don\u2019t pretend\u2014and neither do most of us here\u2014that this is a silver bullet. There is no single action that can overcome and address the scourge of modern slavery, both here in New Zealand and, even more worrisomely, abroad, but it is an important part of addressing that evil. It does turn the attention of companies to their supply chains on a regular basis. It has been proven time and again, in our trading partners from Australia to the UK, Canada, and across Western Europe that when companies look for these things, they see things that they hadn\u2019t previously seen. That is the fruit of this modern slavery reporting framework, and I thank, again, Selwyn for his work on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000479\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECamilla has already mentioned Rebekah Armstrong, Becky Kingi, Jacob Parry, and Clayton Walker for the incredible work that they did on the Modern Slavery and Trafficking Expert Practitioners Group bill. We acknowledge that this modern slavery reporting framework is but one part\u2014a very important part\u2014of that overall approach that addresses modern slavery here and in our international supply chains. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000480\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other parts we are addressing, both as a Government and, in fact, in this bill\u2014and this will come out in the select committee stage\u2014is that we are looking forward to a conversation with the Human Rights Commission in terms of their possible contribution around the oversight and enforcement of this proposed framework. To that extent, I want to acknowledge Stephen Rainbow, Gail Pacheco, and also David Rutherford, the former Human Rights Commissioner, for the work that they have done on this and the counsel that they have provided. It\u2019s been enormously appreciated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000481\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo Claire Gray at Tearfund, thank you. I know that Claire wanted to be here today. I\u2019m sorry you couldn\u2019t be, Claire, and I know you\u2019re watching online. Thank you so much for the technical expertise that you\u2019ve offered and the constant encouragement. You\u2019ve been brilliant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000482\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo Matt Friedman at the Mekong Club; he\u2019s been working in this area for over 20 years. It was my engagement with him and the first-hand accounts of the difference that these reporting frameworks have made across the world that really urged me to work harder and more urgently to bring this kind of legislation before our House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000483\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am reminded of a conversation that I had at Waitangi this year. Waitangi week is filled with challenging and wonderful and inspiring conversations. This one was of a different kind, in that it wasn\u2019t looking at the normal issues of Waitangi week. Instead, it was a long dinner at CBK, down beside the helicopter terminal there, and I was with Jenny and Justin Duckworth. Justin is the Archbishop of the Anglican Church\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000484\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022419782354ca7268905e40f6e7e620daf\u0022\u003ECarl Bates\u003C/span\u003E: From Whanganui.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000485\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002206c001d346d92b35b09730ed300dc614\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING\u003C/span\u003E: From Whanganui, that\u2019s right\u2014that fine electorate with that outstanding local, hard-working, seen-everywhere MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000486\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJustin and I have been friends for several years now and he is an advocate par excellence for all these kinds of things. He and his wife, Jenny, have passed this on to their daughter Maya, who works with Claire in advocacy work at Tearfund. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000487\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJenny asked me a question. We were talking about this modern slavery reporting bill and the opportunity to bring it before the House using this bipartisan approach\u2014and Jenny said to me, \u201CYou know, Greg, can you tell me honestly? You\u2019ve worked in this space for years\u201D\u2014because for those who don\u2019t know me, I worked in the community sector for 25 years before I came to serve here. She said, \u201CAll of this advocacy and all of this work that is done by thousands of young people, all this stirring that happens\u2014does it really work? Does it really make a difference?\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000488\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI told her about what was coming up, what it was that we\u2019ve been working on here, and what Camilla and I and my caucus had been driving through. I looked at her and I said, \u201CThe reality of it is, Jenny, that without that advocacy over the years of all those people\u201D\u2014all those people that we\u2019ve mentioned here and the thousands of others that we haven\u2019t directly named\u2014\u201Cand without their work, we wouldn\u2019t be here.\u201D \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000489\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo yes, it does work. It really, really does. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EI oti i a koutou\u003C/span\u003E\u2014you did it; we did it. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022 data-id=\u0022bffdba3cd6a69c3065f71cd893e69b16\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000490\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cdfceb3207b43e8a21b346f9376ddc7\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022bffdba3cd6a69c3065f71cd893e69b16\u0022\u003ETEANAU TUIONO (Green) (17:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I rise on behalf of the Greens to support this first reading of the bill. First of all, I want to acknowledge the victims of modern slavery and the linkages there between those that are pushed into forced servitude, forced labour, unfair and exploitative labour conditions, trafficking, and all of those horrendous, horrible things which many have advocated to prevent and to stop and to highlight over many, many years. I\u2019m sure I\u2019m not the only member of Parliament that received the emails from World Vision, Tearfund, and others who support this, such as the Council of Trade Unions\u2014I\u2019ve got emails from them as well\u2014and also from faith-based organisations and, of course, the Human Rights Commission.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000491\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo get to this point is an important step. I do want to acknowledge the two members who brought this bill to this place. T\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua, Greg Fleming and Camilla Belich. I think this is bill No. 3 or 4, maybe\u2014I\u2019m losing track at the success of Camilla Belich\u2019s ability to get things out of the biscuit tin.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000492\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat was the first time that this has happened under Standing Order 288, but I do note that there could have been another pathway for this bill to get to the floor. It could have come to the floor via a Government bill, but good on Greg Fleming and good on Camilla Belich for going around Brooke van Velden, who has been very busy in the area of workplace relations doing all the wrong things, eroding workplace relations here, there, and everywhere. Unfortunately, she did not have enough time at all to address the very basics of what people would expect to oppose modern slavery. I\u2019m sure the House will look forward to the contributions from the ACT Party as they try to explain themselves out of this little corner.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000493\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill will require reporting entities to report on how they identify, address, mitigate, and remediate incidents of modern slavery. It will require the Minister to report annually on progress towards combating modern slavery and to issue guidance on reporting suspected incidents of modern slavery processes that Government agencies should follow in response. As the two speakers before me have said, it will focus on those big businesses, but I do note some of the comments that have been made: that when this is the pathway for legislation to get to the floor, members themselves don\u2019t have the full backing of a whole Government department to help them to draft it, and the workload will be on the select committee to make sure that we iron out all the different bits and pieces of this legislation, and I expect there will be some\u2014there will be some. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000494\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs was talked about earlier, there are issues around modern slavery with links to child exploitation, but I note that, actually, we\u2019ve ratified some of the international agreements on that. So that has been taken care of in other parts, but how it links forward to this particular bill, I think, will be an important question, and there are also all the other international instruments that deal with trafficking of people, etc., etc., as well. These are issues that we will need to tease out at the select committee because we don\u2019t have a Government Minister with the backing of a whole lot of officials to make sure that we can iron that out.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000495\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the questions I do have is around the scope, and I get it. You have members\u2019 day, and the members\u2019 bills tend to be as narrow in scope as possible to be able to get enough support to get over the line. One of the issues that we could be talking about as well is: why are we just looking at bigger companies when, actually, exploitation in the form of modern slavery can often happen within small businesses, and it could often happen in other circumstances which are not part of the supply chain? These are issues that we should be able to tease out within the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000496\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is an important bill. This is an important step. I do want to, once again, acknowledge the two members for finding a very creative way to bring this to the floor\u2014well done. It had to come to the floor sooner or later. It could have come with the full resources of the Government, but congratulations to those two members. We will be debating these issues on the floor and getting into more and more of the detail at the select committee to make sure that we can actually start the step to stopping modern slavery. Thank you, Mr Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u00221a75435c26e3fafda12a5a7b5a6ea317\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000497\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00221a75435c26e3fafda12a5a7b5a6ea317\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT) (17:15)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Before I start my speech, I just want to thank the organisations for the work that they do in this space. I know that it is a really hard area to be in, and I hope that you take care of yourselves with some of the things that you might be confronted with.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000498\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELet me be absolutely clear: modern slavery is a moral abomination. The exploitation of human beings has no place here in New Zealand or around the world. There is not a single person in this House who is soft on slavery. I don\u2019t believe there is a single one, but that is actually not the question before us today. The question is whether this bill as it is drafted will meaningfully make a difference here in New Zealand, or whether it will simply make us feel like we have done something about modern slavery.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000499\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is a near perfect encapsulation of what Milton Friedman warned us about when he said, \u201COne of the greatest mistakes is to judge policies and programs by their intentions rather than their results.\u201D I will say that there are really good intentions behind this bill, and I know both of the members that are involved have the very best intentions. Had you maybe come and talked to me about this, we may be in a different position, but I haven\u2019t actually spoken to either member about this bill, nor have a lot of my colleagues. As much as we\u2019re doing a bit of a \u201CKumbaya\u201D here, and you feel like the ACT Party is out on their own, we actually weren\u2019t consulted on it. What New Zealanders deserve from this House are not good intentions but actual good policy, and on the evidence before us, this is not actually good policy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000500\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFirst, the title of this bill certainly sounds very nice, and many New Zealanders out there will be thinking that we\u2019re going to be doing something about modern slavery and we should be doing something about it. New Zealand already does have robust laws against slavery. In fact, it has been almost 200 years since slavery was abolished in New Zealand when we became a British colony back in 1840. Since then, these laws have evolved to a multitude of different offences. We have, obviously, got the Crimes Act, and the fact that this bill explicitly acknowledges that in its own definitions. There\u2019s always a case for these punishments to be reviewed, especially if it seems like we are being too lenient, but this bill doesn\u2019t do that. In fact, we know that we have modern slavery here in New Zealand, and we should be tackling that first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000501\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere was just a case the other day\u2014and most of you will be familiar about it\u2014around the Thai massage parlour and the immigrants that were being exploited there. It\u2019s absolutely horrendous, and this problem is happening here in New Zealand. We do have the labour inspectorate, who are doing a very good job, but it could be, actually, that we should be increasing our penalties and we should be coming down harder on what is actually happening here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000502\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EUnder this bill, a company may not exploit a single human being. It could even be a model employer, but if it misses a paperwork deadline or files a deficient statement, it faces up to $200,000 in fines. This is around administrative or non-administrative punishment. This is not a policy built on a cornerstone of freeing victims; it is built on filling in forms and ticking boxes.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000503\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know this bill is going to go to the select committee because it has the support of the other parties, and I\u2019d be very keen to see the evidence that this bill actually makes a difference. We can\u2019t just blindly follow other countries down a path because we think it is the right thing to do. We need to actually assess what is happening and whether it will have any actual impact here in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000504\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing that I think is the most concerning point is that discretion is handed to the responsible Minister over what a company\u2019s revenue is. This bill, as it states, is set to $100\u00A0million. A lot of us could probably agree that when a company earns over that, they can afford the administrative duties, and I think there is a good argument in that; but do we really trust that a future Minister, with the stroke of a pen, won\u2019t actually change that to $100,000 or $10,000? That in itself is really concerning. I know the opposite side of the House have been arguing within other pieces of legislation around Ministers being awarded that power and when something should actually be Parliament\u2019s duty to decide, and so I really do hope that the select committee look at that. We\u2019re not really  debating a $100\u00A0million threshold here; we are actually debating something bigger than this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000505\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, New Zealand is not the first country to run this experiment, and despite the ability to look at other jurisdictions, like Australia and the United Kingdom, it seems we\u2019d rather be a fast follower than a smart follower. We can do better. We could actually tackle modern slavery, and we should be doing better right here in New Zealand first.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022 data-id=\u002275d560bf55c94c8dd42c5a4f6dff8126\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000506\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275d560bf55c94c8dd42c5a4f6dff8126\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Associate Minister of Immigration) (17:20)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Modern Slavery Bill which we, of course, will be supporting. New Zealand First has always advocated for the rights of the worker and we think this is an important piece of legislation. I do sincerely commend the members Camilla Belich and Greg Fleming for working together to achieve this piece of legislation, and acknowledge the members for talking about the fact that this is a starting point. This is an important starting point, but it is a starting point.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000507\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI reflect on 2020, when New Zealand saw its first slavery conviction in New Zealand and we were appalled. We found it abhorrent and we couldn\u2019t believe that it happened on our shores. Moving on from that, over the past six years, we have seen a growing trend\u2014 and it is why I\u2019m advocating so hard on our response to organised crime\u2014where people are a commodity. As in any commodity used by criminals to make money, people have now become that commodity. Slavery is not new. It has been around for thousands of years, but we are a society that\u2019s moved on and we should be judged by how we deal with this issue now.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000508\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI would like to personally acknowledge Dr Christina Stringer from Auckland University, who was a great educator for me when I first started working in this space. She was an incredible academic with a lot of wisdom in this space and wrote one of the first white papers on modern slavery and Governments\u2019 response to it. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000509\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is a complex issue, we acknowledge, and it is a complex issue because we want to ensure that our outcomes achieve the impacts. I do acknowledge the ACT member for talking about being judged by the outcomes of our legislation and not just that we have legislation, but I think it has been traversed clearly in this House that this is the starting point that we need. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000510\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is recognised that reporting and accountability will be necessary, but I\u2019m old enough to know that when we first introduced health and safety legislation, we fundamentally started with a reporting mechanism and a policy development. Over time, that legislation grew teeth, it grew strength, and it grew, most importantly, accountability for those who do wrong. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000511\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe challenge we have with modern slavery is it is complex. It has many forms. It is fundamentally abusing human rights and the individuals\u2019 rights for freedom, through coercion, through violence, through intimidation, and through a range of things where we take vulnerable people and make them our playthings, effectively. This is why I think it is necessary to bring the legislation forward. It is a good starting point. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000512\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe look forward to the select committee process. I think it is important to understand that we want to gain visibility in this process, and our reporting mechanisms have to ensure that we encourage transparency and reporting, so that those who do good, who delve into their supply chains, who audit, and who do all the right things should be commended for that effort, not condemned when they find slavery within their supply chain. That is an important balance we need to strike, or otherwise we will end up with perverse outcomes where we would be choosing to not see it rather than see it, report it, and therefore risk being held accountable for it being in your supply chain. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000513\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve talked about the big businesses and how they have the capacity to deal with this. They also have brand exposure. They also have the risk that, when it is found in their supply chain, they will be condemned in the international markets and will be held accountable. But we want to ensure that those big businesses have independent, strong auditing within their supply chains so that they are driven and incentivised to make sure that they weed it out, they look for it, and that they\u2019re encouraged to do so. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000514\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also look forward to working closely to deliver better outcomes around how we respond to the organised crime component of modern slavery, we recognise those bad actors that are manipulating human beings and that have some degree of anonymity within big supply chains, and we do more to weed out the slavery that is occurring in New Zealand. We recognise that there is domestic trafficking within New Zealand. We recognise that this is not just across borders, but exploitation is a reality and we need a legislative solution that will deliver those positive outcomes. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000515\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI really do acknowledge and support the members for bringing this to the House. I think there is a good opportunity through a select committee process to ensure we have good engagement, and therefore New Zealand First commends the bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u00225ea245ec5519e478e39e531aad4efaa0\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000516\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00225ea245ec5519e478e39e531aad4efaa0\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (17:25)\u003C/span\u003E: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 koe. E tautoko ana, e tino tautoko ana i ng\u0101 mihi ki ng\u0101 mema P\u0101remata n\u0101 r\u0101ua t\u0113nei kaupapa. Ki a koe, Greg Fleming n\u014D te R\u014Dp\u016B N\u0101hinara, k\u014Drua tahi ko Camilla Belich. T\u0113n\u0101 k\u014Drua i t\u0113nei mahi.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000517\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E[\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThank you. I support, I very much support, the acknowledgments to the members of Parliament to whom this initiative belongs: to you, Greg Fleming from the National Party, to yourself and Camilla Belich. Congratulations to both of you for this work.\u003C/span\u003E]\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000518\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt goes without saying that we are not just discussing a bill; we are discussing the integrity of our nationhood. We often speak of Aotearoa as a beacon of human rights, and yet our daily lives are quietly fuelled by exploitation. The latest Global Slavery Index estimates that 50 million people globally are trapped in modern slavery, and 8,000 of them are right here in Aotearoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000519\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook at our streets. Look at our tracks. We know that global entities like China Railway Rolling Stock Corporation, which supplies the very buses and trains that make our cities go around, have been linked to alleged forced labour in international supply chains. When our own public transport is potentially built on the backs of oppressed peoples, we\u2019re not just observers of injustice; we are participants in it. We cannot preach freedom while riding on the results of bondage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000520\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill is our chance to say \u201CEnough.\u201D We\u2019re not just following the world, contrary to popular belief; we are leading. Unlike the UK or Australian models, this bill introduces real teeth: director liability. This bill goes further by including penalties and liabilities for directors. If you profit from slave labour, the buck stops at the boardroom table. Thresholds for transparency: it targets large reporting entities with $100 million or more in revenue, requiring them to be transparent about how they identify, mitigate, and remediate incidents of slavery. Specialist oversight: it explores the establishment of an independent anti-slavery commissioner to lead this work with the enforcement power it requires.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000521\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, our support for this bill\u2014and, yes, we absolutely support this bill\u2014is a matter of \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emana motuhake\u003C/span\u003E. Slavery is the ultimate theft of a person\u2019s authority over their own life. It is that antithesis of everything that we stand for: \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emana \u014Drite\u003C/span\u003E. We must confront the inequality that allows $8 billion worth of goods made with forced or child labour to enter our ports every year. No person\u2019s mana should be diminished because they\u2019re desperate to survive. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EMana mokopuna:\u003C/span\u003E bringing an end to modern slavery will benefit mokopuna across the world, not just here in Aotearoa. We owe them a legacy of liberation, not a supply chain of suffering.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000522\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn conclusion, we hear the ACT Party. We hear that they will vote against this, preaching personal liberty. But Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, in this House, we ask, whose liberty\u2014the liberty of a business to ignore blood in its supply chain, or the liberty of human beings to live without chains? We are caught in an inescapable network of mutuality. If one person is enslaved, the freedom of all of us is a hollow promise. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000523\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt\u2019s time to clear our conscience and our cupboards of slave labour. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori absolutely supports this bill and we support the emancipation of all people. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003ET\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022 data-id=\u00229dcccd8c7d55825450381f24809f133c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000524\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cc5df856d19845fdaba4418087cd3bba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229dcccd8c7d55825450381f24809f133c\u0022\u003EHon JAN TINETTI (Labour) (17:29)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. Often when we hear that word \u201Cslavery\u201D, it\u2019s something that creates a really physical response in most of us. It\u2019s something that we see as being horrific and horrendous, and often, we will think about it in terms of \u201CWe don\u2019t hear of it and we don\u2019t see it here in New Zealand, and so it doesn\u2019t exist.\u201D, and yet that\u2019s not the case\u2014that is not the case. We know, as the previous speaker and other speakers have said, that not only does it exist in supply chains and across the globe, but the 2023 Global Survey Index recognised that there would be approximately 8,000 people living in modern slavery in New Zealand. That\u2019s 8,000 people living on our shores who are living in the most horrific and horrendous conditions that we could imagine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000525\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to say, firstly, a big congratulations to my colleagues across the House. To Camilla Belich and Greg Fleming, thank you for the work you have done, and congratulations on getting this bill to the point that we\u2019re here debating the first reading this evening. As many others have said in this House, this is a start. I acknowledge that both of you have said that the bill\u2019s not perfect, and we know that, but, hey, it\u2019s more perfect than having nothing. Before that, we had nothing, we currently have nothing, and this bill is the start of us acknowledging and putting this right.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000526\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge before I move on, because I am talking about those two members\u2014congratulations on the work that you have done to create history in Parliament. This is a really, really big day for Parliament. We have bypassed the ballot and we have used the Standing Order for the first time that enables this bill to go straight to first reading and then through to select committee. I\u2019m really proud that we can stand here as a Parliament and do that, and so well done. Because I work closely with Camilla Belich in the workplace relations portfolio, I know the work that both of you have done, and I\u2019m really impressed, because you\u2019ve both been very tenacious in this. So, congratulations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000527\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to say a big thankyou, as others have done, to all the NGOs and the lobbyists who have really, really made this a big focus in this Parliament. I have been to several events that they have run in this area to highlight just how big of an issue this is in Aotearoa New Zealand. I have grown my awareness over that time, and it is thanks to them, because I think, before all of this, I probably was one of those people that thought that this does not exist on our New Zealand shores. I think, if we\u2019re all honest, there was a point that we came to believe, through their lobbying and through their activism, that we understood the rationale and the reason why this bill is so important for us to progress within this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000528\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019re talking about protecting vulnerable people, people who have very few other options in their life to get past this. They are being exploited. Because they\u2019re in vulnerable situations that, in many cases, they are accepting , and it\u2019s not on them; it is on people that are putting them into these positions in the first place. They have to be accepting because they can\u2019t see any other options. Well, today we\u2019re saying that we see them\u2014we see them and we are prepared to stand up for them, and we are prepared to stand up with them. That is something that is, again, a very historic day for us, and it sits at the heart of all of our values in this Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000529\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know we all come here to support people and to put people at the centre of what we do, and the fact that we can come together across the parties\u2014well, most of the parties\u2014makes this a really, really historic day. This is what\u2019s good about politics. Sometimes people don\u2019t see that; sometimes we don\u2019t see that ourselves, but this is what\u2019s good about politics. I look forward to seeing this bill progress through the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022 data-id=\u0022ea382095b321e434888acb88d3112a74\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000530\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c96149a439844ecfa86967f9caf5f50d\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ea382095b321e434888acb88d3112a74\u0022\u003EKATIE NIMON (National\u2014Napier) (17:34)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. I\u2019m really pleased to be able to stand in support of this bill and to acknowledge both Camilla Belich and my friend and colleague Greg Fleming. When Greg talked to me about this bill potentially coming to the Education and Workforce Committee, I explained why that was a really exciting thing and something that I knew the committee would support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000531\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think we\u2019ve got a very constructive committee, and I\u2019ve really enjoyed that over the last couple of years, and one thing that we have all agreed on is our position against migrant exploitation. We\u2019ve followed that really closely when we review Immigration New Zealand and where that\u2019s going and the work that we\u2019re doing around that. Now, that\u2019s just a small part of modern slavery that\u2019s addressed in this space, but it is something that I know we have followed closely. There are a lot of similarities and certain issues where, if we address this, we can certainly go in the right direction towards addressing migrant exploitation in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000532\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just want to say, too, in terms of the select committee process\u2014before I move on to some of my own reflections\u2014that it\u2019s something, in a wider sense, in the way we operate in New Zealand that I think the committee will be in some cases not surprised, and in some cases really disappointed, but also really inspired by our ability to make the change and what this is going to genuinely turn out to do. When we open for submissions, which we will do shortly, we really want to hear from a breadth of organisations, whether it\u2019s NGOs and the people that have lobbied and advocated for years and years on this, but, as well as that, organisations that maybe are already doing this really well and can set an example and show us how this works and what we can do to make it right, or those that will be working with this\u2014those large organisations\u2014and how this would look for them. We want to make sure that something like this genuinely works and has sustainable outcomes, because that is what this is about. We don\u2019t want opposition in the business world or in various sectors; we want this to be supported for all the right reasons.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000533\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat brings me to my point and my own personal reflection. We have these large organisations and we\u2019ve talked about this in the bill. They have the resources to be able to do this kind of thing, and anyone that\u2019s studied business understands\u2014or anyone that hasn\u2019t studied business should probably understand\u2014the triple bottom line and corporate social responsibility, which is something I\u2019m personally really passionate about. It is in a lot of our businesses\u2019 best interests, if not all of our businesses\u2019 best interests, to do what\u2019s right by our communities and our country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000534\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EUnfortunately, unless we raise awareness and shine the light on this kind of situation, a lot of people can blindly purchase commodities in New Zealand not knowing the supply chain, and not knowing the impact that things have had in their path to our dinner table, to our frames when we wear clothes, or whatever it might be. When Kiwis buy products, they should know, and they deserve to know the origin of them. I was a high school student in the 2000s, and I watched \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EChina Blue\u003C/span\u003E\u2014and this is no disrespect to the country mentioned in that title\u2014but that was my observation when I was in fabric technology and understanding the clothes we wear, where they come from, and what that means. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000535\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, we\u2019ve talked a lot about the 8,000 people, and no doubt there are more, sadly, that suffer modern slavery in New Zealand, but it\u2019s the people around the world that we continue to enable to be in this position that we don\u2019t believe deserve to be. When we\u2019re buying products that facilitate and support modern slavery, whether it\u2019s what we wear or what we use\u2014we deserve to know that in order to call those organisations out, to encourage them to see it if they don\u2019t see it where they\u2019re just looking for the best possible price on behalf of their consumer. This is something that we absolutely deserve to address, and I\u2019m really looking forward to doing that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000536\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ECan I also say as well that what I\u2019m looking forward to in addressing this through the select committee is hearing the very real difference that it\u2019s going to make. A little something closer to home: this is not just migrant exploitation, and this is not just supply chain, but when I was managing a school bus company, I observed students in some remote communities, and some not-so-remote communities who were kept out of school for various reasons, and not travelling on the school bus when they should\u2019ve been, who were then being, in some cases, used by their parents to work in spaces, whether they were illegal or not, for no employment. There was a benefit to them not being in school.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000537\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E This happens in New Zealand, and it might not even be something that the police are necessarily looking out for or as a part of that 8,000. There are broader impacts of this piece of legislation, and we talk about this being the starting point\u2014the baby teeth, maybe, when we\u2019re talking about the teeth that this has. I\u2019m pleased to be a part of it and I know our committee is pleased to be a part of it as well. With that, I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022 data-id=\u0022d2b68016ee3c3d4ccd7b424f56d7d409\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000538\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d2b68016ee3c3d4ccd7b424f56d7d409\u0022\u003EHon PHIL TWYFORD (Labour\u2014Te Atat\u016B) (17:39)\u003C/span\u003E: This is a very important issue, and I would march in the street on this issue\u2014but that\u2019s probably not saying much, because I would march in the street on lots of different issues. Like my colleagues, I want to acknowledge Camilla Belich and Greg Fleming for their work and the historic use of Standing Order 288, bypassing the biscuit tin\u2014this bill will go down in history for that, if nothing else.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000539\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to say something about the basic principle at play here. I was staggered to hear the ACT Party member saying they\u2019re not even going to support a bill that\u2019s only about transparency and disclosure of modern slavery\u2014slavery\u2014in supply chains.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000540\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI say to the people who are fans of free-market capitalism: if you want to have the free flow of capital around the world, then for goodness\u2019 sake, do something about maintaining social licence for that, like actually protecting some basic ethical standards, which is what this bill does. If you don\u2019t, then you risk losing public confidence and public support in the very system that you want. I think the Superannuation Fund had a little lesson in this recently when the High Court found that they had not actually met their mandated legislative obligations to ensure that the investment of the New Zealand Superannuation Fund should not be in things like Israel\u2019s illegal occupation of the Palestinian territories.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000541\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it ensures that the supply chains that deliver products to New Zealanders should not rely on modern slavery. I wanted to just add to the debate a little bit of commentary about what we mean by modern slavery. Some colleagues have talked about the 8,000 people in New Zealand who suffer the most egregious forms of oppression, particularly in work, but internationally, what are we talking about? One of the biggest issues that campaigners have spotlighted in relation to modern slavery is the use of State-imposed forced labour in Xinjiang province in China. Xinjiang province produces about 20 percent of the world\u2019s cotton consumption. The Chinese Government denies it, but campaigners allege and have produced evidence that there are hundreds of thousands, if not more than a million, people engaged in State-imposed forced labour in Xinjiang province. North Korea is another obvious example where there is mass forced labour in action.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000542\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe South-east Asian fishing industry, where hundreds of thousands of people find themselves in an industry which produces huge global seafood exports, including to the consumers of this country\u2014they find themselves trapped at sea for months and months on end with no pay and their documents confiscated. In South Asia, there are many, many hundreds of thousands or, in fact, many millions of people who are trapped in debt servitude, bonded labour, child labour, and forced marriage, including in India, where this country is in the process of finalising a trade agreement. That, folks, is what we\u2019re talking about\u2014those are the big ones, internationally, where millions and millions of people find themselves trapped in servitude and bonded labour.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000543\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m looking forward to the discussions that we have at the Education and Workforce Committee on this bill, and I want to finish by saying that I suspect some of the most interesting discussion at the committee will turn on this issue of whether this bill goes far enough. Is it enough to impose transparency requirements, which is that businesses are required to report and disclose whether or not there is modern slavery in their supply chains, or should they\u2014and this is the big issue internationally on this issue\u2014be required by law to undertake due diligence\u2014that is, to find out and prevent or remedy the harms caused by modern slavery? Ken Roth, the former director of Human Rights Watch, is one of the international experts on this, and he was in New Zealand only days ago. He argues that due diligence should be the target, not just disclosure.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022 data-id=\u002274bf9abce1897cfeec1260f49de57498\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000544\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002290f442a79aea4ce0aeae083763135935\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002274bf9abce1897cfeec1260f49de57498\u0022\u003ECARL BATES (National\u2014Whanganui) (17:44)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Mr Speaker. As has been said in this House already this evening, congratulations to the two members, our colleagues, who have brought this bill to the House this afternoon. I did try and attempt not to get up and make any political comment around that, though. However, unaccustomed as I am to making political statements in the House, I cannot sit here and not note that it is my colleague Greg Fleming, a member of the National-led Government and the National Party, that has actually got this to the House during our Government. Labour had the opportunity in 2021; they didn\u2019t get it there, so well done Greg, and well done to Camilla. I know that the two of you have worked closely to make this happen.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000545\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere has been much said of Standing Order 288, which has been used to make this happen, and I might just note that I think it\u2019s a little bit like a mountain that\u2019s about 288 metres high, to be able to use that clause. I\u2019m sure it won\u2019t become a regular occurrence, because it is a significant piece of legislation that\u2019s enabled that Standing Order to be used.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000546\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EModern slavery is abhorrent. We know that, we all agree with that, we appreciate that, and we don\u2019t want it in our supply chain. The question here is: how do you know when it is, how far do you go to make sure it isn\u2019t, and what is the responsibility, in reality, on the companies that are going to be implementing this? I\u2019ve shared, through the process, feedback to Greg Fleming as he\u2019s developed the National Party\u2019s contribution to this piece of legislation, having sat on the board of a company in Australia that was required by the Australian legislation to report under their version of what will soon be law here in New Zealand. It is a conversation that occurs around that table, of, \u201CHave we gone far enough by visiting the factory in Vietnam? Do we actually know X, Y, or Z from that part of our supply chain in Europe? Are we sure the German manufacturers of the machinery we\u2019re buying are clean?\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000547\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think it\u2019s going to be important for the process, through the select committee, through the passing of this legislation, and then the Government implementing it post that\u2014hopefully, later this year\u2014to be clear with business where that line is. A saying that, I suppose, comes in the court space often is that principles are expensive, and this is a principle that it is fair to have a cost on, but we need to make sure that cost is realistic, that we are clear, and that we can ensure it can be practically implemented. Every cost that is incurred increases the cost of the supply chain, and, ultimately, of the products that New Zealanders are buying. There is a way to do this and make it practical and ensure that cost is minimised but that the outcome is achieved, and I hope that no one takes offence or takes what I\u2019ve just said out of context. It is about ensuring we get modern slavery out of our supply chains, but we have to make sure we manage the process of implementing that so that New Zealanders are not paying at the till more than they need to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000548\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe teeth in this piece of legislation is around the director\u2019s liability, so it will be interesting, and I\u2019m sure the Institute of Directors will submit on that. Again, we don\u2019t want to have the wrong drivers of director activity around the boardroom table, and being clear where that line is for directors and understanding their director\u2019s liability\u2014ensuring they are clear on how they make sure that they have not only complied with the letter but the spirit, at the same time as not going so far that it creates unnecessary compliance pressures on our companies here in New Zealand. It will be really important to the success of what I know is going to be a great piece of legislation on the book here as a result of the work that these two members have done. I commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000549\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e054d8c702a2b9418e4ac38ed1f519dc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: In reply, Greg Fleming.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022 data-id=\u0022cc4fb60794e073cf8de475896f474397\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000550\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022cc4fb60794e073cf8de475896f474397\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING (National\u2014Maungakiekie) (17:49)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much to every member of the House who has contributed to this. I appreciate the encouragement. I appreciate the already insightful comments on the bill. I particularly want to thank Laura McClure for her very thoughtful comments, and I want to observe two things: one is that I love it when we have \u201CKumbaya\u201D moments in this House\u2014that\u2019s why I love Treaty settlement days most of all\u2014but we are a debating chamber for good reason. When we debate things, and we debate them well and we debate them faithfully, we actually get better law and we get better policy, and so I think it\u2019s good that we\u2019ve got a party in here\u2014a thoughtful party\u2014that is not yet convinced by this. I accept\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000551\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022b1095b3a461d1fba69b15ece55270dc3\u0022\u003ELaura McClure\u003C/span\u003E: You might convince us.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000552\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022c3b7a0fd4fdc9df02a4c06ff89861870\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, exactly, and I heard Laura McClure very clearly when she said that it is not modern slavery that she is in any way anything other than completely opposed to; it is that she has doubts as to whether the proposed legislation will actually be effective. Will it be a good use of people\u2019s time? Will it be a good use of business time?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000553\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is the struggle I had myself. I was not immediately convinced by the merits of this legislation when I first saw it. That\u2019s why, in my opening remarks, I mentioned my friend Selwyn Coles\u2019 Master\u2019s thesis and the work he did for that year at Oxford in really wrestling with that question\u2014does this work?\u2014and actually looking at dozens and hundreds of contexts around the world. His thoughtful conclusion was that, yes, it would add real value here in New Zealand, and it was that work that persuaded me to push on with it. I hear those concerns, and I look forward, over the coming months to addressing those concerns and seeing whether, come the third reading, we can, as a full House, be right behind this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000554\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPhil Twyford, thank you for your comments. You weren\u2019t able to carry on towards the end, but I appreciate that you started to drill down into wanting to see due diligence. That is precisely what I want to see through this\u2014precisely. Absolutely. I want to see companies doing annual due diligence on their operations and supply chains, because it\u2019s when they actually go to look that they identify things that they are usually horrified to find there. One recent example was from Country Road in Australia. As my colleague Carl Bates\u2014the wonderful member for Whanganui\u2014mentioned, regarding his experience on that board in Australia, there were a lot of doubters when the Australian legislation came in. Country Road did their check, and they were horrified to find that their main sock supplier did actually have a clear instance of modern slavery. They were able to address it because of the requirement on them of this kind of reporting.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000555\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00229f071e5323b640f383726a46f39e8187\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00222b1190fa14fa34699055eafc1f5391ec\u0022\u003EHon Phil Twyford\u003C/span\u003E: Will you require due diligence, not just disclosure?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000556\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227ef423fda7b143b890e93f8018529ebe\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e54c2c2d5bd8cb7d6154ee522d90f9c8\u0022\u003EGREG FLEMING\u003C/span\u003E: Absolutely. Let\u2019s make sure that, through the select committee process, we require it in there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000557\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo the select committee process, can I echo my colleague and friend Katie Nimon\u2019s\u2014who will chair the Education and Workforce Committee through this process\u2014call for really thoughtful submissions. There has been a tendency during my brief time serving in this House where I\u2019ve seen, often, quality and quantity get confused and conflated when it comes to select committees. The problem with that is twofold: sometimes, of course, this is what people are wanting to do. You end up crowding out the really thoughtful submissions, but, secondly, you end up slowing the whole process down. We don\u2019t want either of those things in this case. We want to make sure that the very best submissions and the most thoughtful quality come through, and we don\u2019t want to slow the process down, because, who knows, we could be back here sooner otherwise. The sooner we can get this legislation in play, the sooner we can begin to seriously address modern slavery both here and\u2014even more importantly\u2014abroad.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000558\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOn that, I want to acknowledge again\u2014as I did in my opening remarks, and as did Camilla Belich as well\u2014the extraordinary and relentless work of all those advocates we mentioned before. Without you, we literally wouldn\u2019t be here. Those advocates include the likes of Rebekah Armstrong and Claire Gray, who represent World Vision and Tearfund. To those people who are passionate, can I encourage you to maybe look at sending your submissions to them so that they can collate them into really powerful, detailed, insightful submissions that come to our select committee. That would add the greatest help. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000559\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, can I say that each time I\u2019ve looked up here over the last hour and I\u2019ve seen those words \u201CModern Slavery Bill\u201D scroll along the bottom of the screen\u2014\u201CFirst Reading, Modern Slavery Bill\u201D\u2014I can\u2019t believe we\u2019re actually here. Kia ora.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000560\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Modern Slavery Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000561\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 112\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000562\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; New Zealand First 8; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5; Ferris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000563\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 11\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000564\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EACT New Zealand 11.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000565\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000566\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000567\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00226e58031d223c490e6e7e0350c01af506\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022 data-id=\u0022b79e9254634737d82ec2abf8cff1623f\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000568\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022b79e9254634737d82ec2abf8cff1623f\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor) (17:55)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Modern Slavery Bill be considered by the Education and Workforce Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000569\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000570\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Education and Workforce Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000571\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022197b2d01c208d2b7bf32124f14957690\u0022\u003EInstruction to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u002229f5db0bcaf008a9ccedf270530b6ba6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000572\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002229f5db0bcaf008a9ccedf270530b6ba6\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (17:56)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Modern Slavery Bill be reported to the House by 31 August 2026\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000573\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000574\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022c4943fd1cf914de0befcb7a16280f910\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00226b5fbddbc3b89547e6b25724c21a7fcc\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Greg O\u0027Connor)\u003C/span\u003E: Congratulations, both members. The time has come for me to leave the Chair. The House will resume at 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000575\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterItalicsCentred\u0022\u003ESitting suspended from 5.56 p.m. to 7.30 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000576\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00223f1ad913dd6010fb264cc1e880d42c03\u0022\u003EFinancial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000577\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002271b3a9ac1bc573e60d176248b38d4dda\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000578\u0022\u003EDebate resumed from 1 April.\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022 data-id=\u0022ec94cd46cd221571bbce166851bfc6d4\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000579\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b52eff5aa2a94fcc88903b73d0443de3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ec94cd46cd221571bbce166851bfc6d4\u0022\u003ENANCY LU (National) (19:30)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I am standing to speak on the very first reading of the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill. As suggested by the title, it is very specifically about international money transfers. Now, I\u2019ve had a read, obviously, of the notes related to the bill. I have to say, I am rising to oppose this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000580\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to start by acknowledging the intention behind the bill. The bill is to make sure people understand exactly the components of the cost of what they are paying when they send money overseas, hence the international money transfer. Now, the intent sounds reasonable. Most New Zealanders would agree that they would want to understand the components of the cost that they are paying, but, ultimately, it is one final cost that they will be paying. Understanding how it is made up, component-wise and ratio-wise, I don\u2019t think necessarily adds any benefit to people who are using this service.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000581\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHowever, the question we have today, and the reason why I oppose this bill, is that it\u2019s not improving any safety measures with international money transfers. It is not improving any speed of making international money transfers, and it will not actually do anything to reduce the cost of making such international money transfers. On the contrary, if the bill goes through and it becomes law, the financial providers will now have to do the extra administrative work to provide the breakdown of the cost involved with making international money transfers. They will end up having to have additional staff, possibly, working on the cost, have people who are aligning to make sure that their cost component is actually following the requirements of the legislation, and therefore adding additional cost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000582\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOverall, if this becomes law, we are actually asking for the financial service providers to be providing additional administrative costs. Therefore, ultimately, the responsibility of that cost will be borne by New Zealand consumers who will be using the service. Ultimately, I don\u2019t agree with the amendment in this bill, because we are seeing that the impact of this bill is to add additional layers of rules, therefore requiring additional layers of costs, and therefore, ultimately, they will be passed on to everyday New Zealanders.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000583\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, if we think about how this works in real life for New Zealanders, the people who regularly need such a service to transfer money internationally to a different market would be a lot of people from the community that I work with very, very closely, particularly the migrant ethnic communities, some of whom work very, very hard. Like our Prime Minister said, they\u2019re working hard in one job, two jobs, and three jobs to find and to save and, ultimately, possibly send the money overseas back to their home country to support their families. What these people want to see is that their money will be transferred safely, that it will be transferred timely, and at a minimal cost, because every single dollar that they pay for the bank\u2019s service or pay for an international money transfer will be $1 less that their family members will receive on the other end.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000584\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt also applies to many New Zealand companies who send money overseas for their international suppliers, for example. They have purchased something from overseas and they will be sending money overseas, and therefore, every single dollar they are paying additionally for making the international money transfer will be $1 that they won\u2019t be keeping as profit for the New Zealand company or to grow the business that they have in New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000585\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, no matter the migrant community workers or the New Zealand businesses, they won\u2019t want to see more complexity or more layers or burden that they need to go through. They obviously don\u2019t want to see the higher fees caused by additional compliance requirements. Therefore, as a member of the National Party, when I talk to businesses, my understanding would be that this is not a bill that will be welcomed, because it doesn\u2019t address or improve any of the key requirements that they want, which is safety, speed, and reduced cost. Therefore, I don\u2019t believe this bill is fixing any basics that we have in New Zealand right now. It\u2019s definitely not building any future for a faster, safer, and more cost-efficient service for international money transfers. Therefore, I do not support this bill. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022 data-id=\u0022875d9cf4c312b2a78a4634ffb44e79dd\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000586\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002282ab0ea3cc1948dabe8e5cc6838658d0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022875d9cf4c312b2a78a4634ffb44e79dd\u0022\u003EDAN ROSEWARNE (Labour) (19:35)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of the Labour Party to speak in support of the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill at its first reading here. This is a practical bill, it\u2019s a sensible bill, and one that could make a real difference to everyday New Zealanders. At its heart, this bill is about fairness, transparency, and making life a little bit more affordable for people who are already doing it tough.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000587\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvery day, people across Aotearoa send money overseas. They are sending money to support parents, children, brothers, sisters, and loved ones. They are helping with rent, food, school fees, medical bills, or simply doing what families do: looking out for each other. Very often, the people making these transfers are migrant workers, who are contributing hugely to New Zealand. They are our cleaners, our aged-care workers, our nurses, our hospitality workers, and many others.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000588\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJust contrary to the earlier contribution there, the communities that I\u2019m talking to are looking at this bill with anticipation, particularly in South Auckland, especially Pacific communities, and our migrant communities that are the backbone of the local economy. They work hard, they pay tax, they contribute, and many quietly send a little bit of money to the Pacific Islands each week to help with family, but, right now, too many of them are feeling that they\u2019re stung by fees they cannot clearly see. That is the problem this bill seeks to fix. At the moment, some providers advertise zero fees, but the real cost is hidden in the exchange rate spread. People think they\u2019re getting a bargain, but they\u2019re not, and they only realise later on that far less money has arrived than what they expected.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000589\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat\u2019s not a properly functioning market. A market only works when consumers can compare prices, make informed choices, and know what they\u2019re actually paying for. If the real fee is hidden, then there\u2019s no real competition, and that\u2019s not a fair deal. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022 data-id=\u002247c8405cd43b50bfbdab0ba6f073410c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000590\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002247c8405cd43b50bfbdab0ba6f073410c\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS (National\u2014Northcote) (19:38)\u003C/span\u003E: I was caught up in the moment of what the previous speaker said. Ha, ha! I even wrote down his speech!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000591\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsContinued\u0022\u003EIt is a privilege to contribute to this debate today, which might be my only contribution in the House tonight. I do want to start out by acknowledging the member Arena Williams\u2014well done for getting your bill drawn from the ballot. Knowing the member reasonably well, I know this is definitely within her general wheelhouse of areas of responsibility.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000592\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d8624d72715116379f3c250e5e849eec\u0022\u003EArena Williams\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, stop getting in my wheelhouse with your other bill!\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000593\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b7cff05e64f346e68983b2fdbfba3ad8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00224251e2d6fa4e6bf18c9e02296f99ce28\u0022\u003EDAN BIDOIS\u003C/span\u003E: Ha, ha! Look, we are here to discuss what I think is an issue. I actually had a professor in the United States, Ricardo Hausmann was his name, and he used to say two things: he would say, for Government policy, you want to look at whether there is a problem to be solved first; then, the second thing is: is there a role for Government in solving the problem? To this first issue that my professor would say, this is a problem. It is clearly a case of differential rates when you transfer money, particularly for remittance purposes. We do acknowledge not just our Pacific neighbours, but there are people from around the world who come and work here and send money back to Ukraine, developing countries in Central Asia, right across the world, and we certainly acknowledge their contribution to our society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000594\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is another thing to then say whether the Government can and should intervene and solve this problem. In New Zealand\u2019s context, we\u2019ve answered that as a partial yes, the Government should do that. The reason why this side of the House isn\u2019t supporting this bill is because there are a range of instruments from Government that are designed to help address this particular issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000595\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do, for those two people at home, wish to outline those particular instruments. The first is the Conduct of Financial Institutions regime, which we brought into place in March 2025. That requires, of course, all financial institutions to operate fairly and transparently towards consumers in the products that they offer. Next, we do have the Financial Markets Conduct Amendment Bill, which is before the Finance and Expenditure Committee at the moment, and it\u2019s currently going through the House, and that clarifies obligations for financial institutions with respect to fair and transparent practices.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000596\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to come back to what I got caught up with at the start of this debate, which is the previous member\u2019s contribution when he said\u2014and I quote\u2014\u201Cproperly functioning markets\u201D. Yes, properly functioning markets are all about price signals, but they\u2019re also about competition. I think, actually, in this House, we rushed too quickly to say the Government must solve this. Actually, the key to a functioning market is competition. Where is that competition coming from? Well, thankfully, we\u2019ve got a greater use of fintechs out there, companies that are bypassing through technology and enabling customers to transfer at next to nothing for international money transfers. We should be encouraging this. We\u2019ve got a huge amount of digital technology companies that are providing solutions for customers where the big companies cannot provide and where Government cannot provide.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000597\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe on this side of the House are all about free markets, we\u2019re all about competition, and we\u2019re all about price transparency\u2014the Government\u2019s doing its bit. We do not need a piece of legislation like this. We think that it\u2019s just overly cumbersome and it\u2019s actually providing too much in terms of bureaucracy that is already in the works. On that basis, I don\u2019t commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000598\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225db61710d2346ebfcf7184058b54a0c9\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Arena Williams in reply.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u002203f31cb91e18e373ccd4787803589f90\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000599\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002203f31cb91e18e373ccd4787803589f90\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa) (19:43)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Chair. What a delight to get to this stage in the debate where it is afforded the member in charge of a bill to offer a reply. I want to use it to thank the Greens, Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, ACT, and New Zealand First for coming together to recognise the principle that every dollar that goes into unnecessary costs, into these hidden fees, and into the inflated margins being charged to New Zealanders, is a dollar that is not going to groceries, rent, petrol, and the real economy.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000600\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is a simple bill. The effect is that it will make prices transparent, and it is an issue of fairness, because those costs are adding up. They\u2019re not always obvious to New Zealanders, and when they become obvious, often after a transaction has occurred, people feel terrible about that. People feel a degree of shame, and week after week, it\u2019s adding up for people in a way that they feel powerless to change. It\u2019s also about the dignity of the people who have seen thousands of dollars being wasted on these fees because they are being ripped off in New Zealand right now because we don\u2019t have the rules that other countries do.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000601\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThose parties who are voting for this are voting for standing up for those people who are being ripped off and are saying we can change it in this House, and we should. This is why I\u2019m going to write to every National MP in this House alongside their constituents and the people who want it most; the organisations like our Filipino Nurses Association in Manurewa and Takanini, people like the Supreme Sikh Society in Takanini, people like the Waitakere Indian Association, those organisations that are really calling for change and that want this to progress.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000602\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know that, at a local level, National MPs can see what the cost of living is doing to their constituents, and it\u2019s hitting everyone. This is one simple measure where a small regulatory change can impact on everybody\u2019s costs that are adding up and do something real for those people who are least able to avoid those costs. These are people who speak English as a second language, these are the workers who are working two or three jobs, and these are the people who need our help most. This is something simple where banks are the ones ripping them off, where institutions that are charging their fees are getting the actual services and providing them at a low cost, and we can do something about it, so we should. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000603\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe people most affected by opaque remittance fees are those who most often are the least able to absorb them. They\u2019re low-income workers, they\u2019re migrant communities, they\u2019re people sending small amounts regularly, where even a few extra dollars each time makes a big difference. We talk a lot about inclusion and opportunity in this House too\u2014this is what it looks like in practice, making sure people are not quietly overcharged simply because the system is too hard to navigate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000604\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, in response to those National MPs who have given contributions tonight. This change means that prices will be known. The problem at the moment is that, when you walk down the street, there\u2019s an interchange service just on the way down to Where\u2019s Charlie, the Vietnamese restaurant, where I saw some colleagues tonight. Between us and there is an interchange service that is advertising zero fees. What they mean by zero fees is that, when you transfer the money overseas to your mum that you\u2019re looking after in Samoa, to your family in the Philippines, or to someone you are transacting with to buy a holiday experience when your family visits in November, you will be charged a fee but you won\u2019t know it up front. In fact, you might not know it until the money arrives in that person\u2019s account. That is not fair. That advertising shouldn\u2019t be allowed. That is happening in front of our eyes, but we can navigate it, because, as Dan Bidois set out, we have the right kind of information in the market to be able to use the alternatives\u2014but lots of people don\u2019t. Lots of people see that sign and think \u201CZero fees, sounds good to me.\u201D, and why wouldn\u2019t you? That\u2019s what\u2019s being advertised.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000605\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are services out there that are charging up to 10 percent in fees by the time you add on the extra costs on top of it. That should be disclosed up front, and it\u2019s not. For most products in our market, it will be, but this is a special case where it is not regulated in that way. Of course, New Zealanders deserve a Government that believes in the principle that they should pay a fair price and the one that\u2019s advertised to them; the price you see at the shelf should be the one you pay at the till. That applies to international money transfers too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000606\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to thank the ACT Party and I want to thank New Zealand First. They are coming to this for different politics than I do, but there is a principle here that we can do something about New Zealanders\u2019 cost of living, and we will. I want every National MP to vote for this. I hope that we can arrive at a position we can all agree on, which is that this is a simple thing we can do, with a simple and targeted regulatory measure that will make a difference to thousands of New Zealanders\u2019 lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000607\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000608\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 74\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000609\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; New Zealand First 8; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5; Ferris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000610\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 49\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000611\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000612\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000613\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000614\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe result corrected after originally being announced as Ayes 54, Noes 49.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000615\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002298b7725b8413ba0ac3764a6806817ade\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u002275441a52fa8fcc9357051dd03ec6d1d6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000616\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002275441a52fa8fcc9357051dd03ec6d1d6\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER (19:49)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Financial Markets (International Money Transfers) Amendment Bill be considered by the Governance and Administration Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000617\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000618\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Governance and Administration Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000619\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00222be3842c6fddbb885a5b1b718265aee0\u0022\u003EResidential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000620\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002221fe4558c4133c11c19210f41005c736\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd2c9c3aa7974099bfcaac8ea7452994\u0022 data-id=\u0022625c4b111938f6df17a7add9ef079c1d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000621\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd2c9c3aa7974099bfcaac8ea7452994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022625c4b111938f6df17a7add9ef079c1d\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu) (19:49)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Social Services and Community Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000622\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI rise in strong support of the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill. This bill proposes something that is humane and quite simple: that no boarding house in New Zealand should be able to operate while hiding in the shadows; that we do our part as parliamentarians to legislate, and to shine a light on, boarding houses and to make sure all boarding house landlords are registered.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000623\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe problem that is before us in the House of Parliament tonight is not a new one. For many years, boarding houses have accommodated some of our most vulnerable in society\u2014people with complex health needs, people on low incomes, people leaving institutions, people without family support, and those with nowhere else to go. Yet, too often we have not had a reliable way of answering these very basic questions: where are these boarding houses located across Aotearoa New Zealand, who is running them, and are these boarding houses complying with the law?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000624\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI must say that this is not an abstract legal or policy debate\u2014not from me tonight. We have seen the human cost of unsafe boarding houses. We will all remember what happened here in P\u014Dneke Wellington on 16\u00A0May 2023, the tragedy that catalysed the urgent national attention about boarding house safety, the fatal fire at that 92-bed Loafers Lodge, which unfortunately killed five people and injured 20 others. It was one of the most devastating fires of its kind across New Zealand in, I understand, over 50 years. The four-storey building was originally an office and a warehouse, constructed in 1971, I\u2019m informed, but it had no sprinkler system, and despite this, this building was given a building warrant of fitness just two months before the fatal fire. This boarding house was home to some of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable, and the people who were living in it were referred from Government agencies. This boarding house is one that fell through the regulatory gap. Loafers Lodge had flown under the radar, operated in the shadows, until lives were lost.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000625\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Social Services and Community Committee, way back in 2011, recognised that boarding houses were a problem here in Aotearoa New Zealand. In fact, at that time, they had an inquiry, and that inquiry took them about three years. Their report was finalised and tabled here in Parliament in 2014. Two of the key recommendations that they made and two of the findings that they made I\u2019d like to speak of tonight. The first was that many of the boarding houses they looked into fell far short of the most basic of standards. The second was that there is no register of boarding houses in New Zealand and no statutory regime for oversight. In fact, one of the main recommendations from this inquiry was that we should have a national register of boarding houses.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000626\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, we in the Labour Party believe that every New Zealander deserves a clean, safe, and warm place to live. This is central to our commitment to healthy homes, to ensuring that people have decent jobs, and to ensuring that the cost of living is tackled here in New Zealand. Right now, there is no registration system of our boarding houses for the country. This means that anyone\u2014and, unfortunately, I mean anyone\u2014can operate a boarding house with no oversight, no accountability, and no way for Government agencies to know or to tell the difference between a property that is legal and one that is not complying with our laws.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000627\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAuckland Council in 2024\u2014this is in the aftermath of Loafers Lodge\u2014inspected 44 properties, and when they looked at these 44 properties, 40 out of the 44 properties were found to be operating unauthorised transient accommodations or boarding houses. Auckland Council also found fire safety breaches, properties that were converted without consents, and some had grown from single dwellings to over 20-bedroom dwellings. They found growing gang-affiliated occupants, and what they also found when they went to inspect some of these boarding houses was that they actually had to take police with them because some of these landlords were not even allowing them to come into their boarding houses. Some of the landlords were refusing to accept that Auckland Council and the inspectors had any authority to be in the boarding houses. What we also know from this report is that the Department of Corrections and Work and Income New Zealand actually said that, without an official register of boarding houses, it is hard for them as Government agencies to know whether a property is legal or whether a property is non-compliant. These are Government agencies.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000628\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESome of you may remember that, in Dunedin, the \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EOtago Daily Times\u003C/span\u003E had a story that they called the \u201CHouses of Horror\u201D, where they investigated and found homeless people who were living in dilapidated boarding houses, described as one of the darkest corners of our housing system. These stories are not isolated; they are warnings, warnings for all of us here in Parliament about what happens when vulnerable people are housed in places that agencies cannot easily track, regulators cannot easily target, and the public cannot easily identify.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000629\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat is the longstanding issue that my member\u2019s bill addresses. The bill will improve the oversight of boarding houses in New Zealand by requiring registration of all boarding house landlords under the Residential Tenancies Act 1986. Landlords cannot grant a boarding house tenancy unless they themselves are registered, and this registration is something that must be renewed every year. It aims to protect vulnerable tenants and ensure compliance with our tenancy laws. A public register will be created and maintained by the Ministry of Housing and Urban Development (MHUD), and the details include the landlord\u2019s name, contact information, address for service, and addresses and descriptions of the boarding houses that these individuals or companies own.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000630\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMembers across this House don\u2019t always agree, but it is my sincere hope that we agree on this: when a person or a company operates a boarding house that houses particularly vulnerable people, both local and central government should know who they are, where they\u2019re operating, and whether or not they are fit to do so. To my colleagues in the coalition Government, it is my sincere hope that you support this bill to first reading, because even if you do support it to first reading, it doesn\u2019t mean that you have to agree with every single clause of the bill, but it does mean that it allows the bill to go to select committee, allowing tenants, councils, Fire and Emergency, MHUD, tenancy services, responsible landlords, housing providers, disability and migrant worker advocates, and community organisations to have their say. Voting for this bill at first reading sends the message to the public of New Zealand that we have heard the warnings, we have learnt from Loafers Lodge, we\u2019ve listened to the Auckland Council inspectors\u2019 report, we have not forgotten Dunedin\u2019s Houses of Horror, and, more importantly, we are prepared to work together to fix a longstanding gap in our laws. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000631\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ea64cab0ded4aa7c4fa206cd79f7b659\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u00222e91012b3bccbae06b3c035871fb7ce6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000632\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222e91012b3bccbae06b3c035871fb7ce6\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (19:58)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill in its first reading and just want to take the opportunity at the outset to congratulate the Hon Jenny Salesa on drafting this bill on an important issue and on having that drawn from the ballot, which is always one of the things that every member of this House who is on the backbench hopes will happen to their member\u2019s bill. It\u2019s a great moment when it does.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000633\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook, I just want to congratulate her as well for grappling with a very challenging and difficult issue. Unfortunately, Loafers Lodge really highlighted some genuinely serious issues that need to be taken into consideration. That was obviously a tragic incident here in the city of Wellington, in the suburb of Newtown, where five people unfortunately lost their lives. There are a number of factors to that, but, certainly, I think the lack of sprinklers and alarm systems played a really crucial role in what happened.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000634\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELook, boarding houses\u2014as the member who spoke before me, the Hon Jenny Salesa, mentioned\u2014provide accommodation for some of New Zealand\u2019s most vulnerable renters, including people with limited housing options, people with mental health issues, substance abuse issues, poor credit history, or involvement with the justice system. I\u2019ve certainly seen that in my previous practice in the criminal justice sector. I worked as a lawyer, and I certainly saw people moving through that system and I saw some of the housing they were going through, some of which was of a very high standard and some which was not.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000635\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvidence does show that some boarding houses continue to operate with poor maintenance, poor health and fire safety standards, and tenants can often face barriers to raising concerns, including a fear of retaliatory action due to shorter termination notice periods under boarding house tendencies, so they can be more vulnerable than the typical renter. However, we do believe that any regulatory response must be tightly targeted, must avoid unnecessary red tape, and must focus on lifting safety and quality outcomes in boarding houses, rather than creating broad compliance-heavy registration requirements. We want it to be really targeted, and we want it to be effective.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000636\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI acknowledge and welcome the Hon Jenny Salesa\u2019s plea before to Government parties to consider this even if they don\u2019t agree with all of it. That, basically, sums up our position at this point. We don\u2019t think all of this quite hits the mark. However, we do think it\u2019s an important enough issue that we agree it\u2019s appropriate that she has brought this to the House, and we will be supporting this through to select committee and we will welcome submissions. I believe it\u2019s being referred to the Social Services and Community Committee, which I chair, so I can say we will be looking forward to hearing submissions. We want to hear things that people think work well, things that they think don\u2019t, things where it could be improved, and we will be listening very carefully and looking at how this piece of legislation can be improved.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000637\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOne of the things about drafting a member\u2019s bill is that there is some support that\u2019s provided by Parliament in doing so but we don\u2019t have the benefit of all of the advice from officials, and so this process through a select committee is a really good one to really panel beat the ideas, panel beat the draft legislation, and look at how it can be really effective in addressing the legitimate and appropriate concerns that have been raised in this bill by the Hon Jenny Salesa. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u00229b7566d998e96c4be32e75812ab43537\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000638\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00229b7566d998e96c4be32e75812ab43537\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (20:02)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. The Green Party is supporting the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill. I want to congratulate Jenny Salesa for bringing this issue forward. I\u2019m really stoked to hear that the National Party is going to be supporting this, at least to select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000639\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve spoken a bit about my life before being an MP, but when I worked at Auckland Action Against Poverty, one of the things that I often did was try to advocate for people to be given access to things like emergency housing when they were homeless. There were moments in Auckland, particularly where I worked, where emergency housing was not deemed available for people, but people were being placed in boarding homes. There were several instances where elderly people, disabled people, people struggling with ill mental health were put in boarding homes that I got to see myself. Many of them were in terrible conditions, and they clearly were not safe places for people who were just struggling to make ends meet.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000640\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe\u2019ve heard other speakers mention some harrowing incidents like Loafers Lodge, which tragically cost people\u2019s lives, but the overall situation we\u2019ve got in this country is a genuine lack of adequate information over who is running these boarding houses. There seem to be very little safeguards to actually put the landlords who run these on notice if they do not provide adequate conditions or if they\u2019ve got a poor track record of running them. They should not be able to make a profit out of providing often unsafe, expensive, poor-quality housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000641\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this bill, and I want to encourage\u2014now that we\u2019ve had confirmation from the National Party that this will at least pass the first reading\u2014that we hear from people who have experienced living in boarding homes. Ultimately, those voices are the most critical to ensuring that the provisions of this legislation to have a register, but also to establish a criteria by which a boarding house landlord could potentially be disqualified, are genuinely fit for purpose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000642\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Green Party looks forward to engaging with this bill at the select committee stage. We commend the member for bringing this important issue, and we hope that the Government, in supporting this, acknowledges the need for a comprehensive register of landlords and property managers as well. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022 data-id=\u0022e93b5849034458ebf15a841aab2127e7\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000643\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022440a125e85954bae9f5d470b7551e4f3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e93b5849034458ebf15a841aab2127e7\u0022\u003ECAMERON LUXTON (ACT) (20:05)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill. Can I first thank Jenny Salesa for the time she took earlier in this process to talk with me about this bill and explain her reasoning in a one-on-one conversation, which was very helpful, including that the stated aim is to improve the visibility, compliance, and accountability within the sector, particularly for the protection of vulnerable tenants who use and call boarding houses home, if even for a short while.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000644\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am rising and speaking in cautious support of this bill, but ACT believes that a conversation is worth having at select committee to make sure that the bill does what it says on the tin. Over the summer, I had a bit of a read through a book by Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson called\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EAbundance\u003C/span\u003E. They used the case study of boarding houses in certain Californian cities, and some of the rules and the prescriptions and registrations and minimum lot sizes and a lot of the things that went on in the name of protection\u2014registering actually made vulnerable tenants more vulnerable.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000645\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe recognise that there is an impact on the community in having boarding houses and having them poorly run, but also, I think a lot of the arguments that have been made about compliance and risk are\u2014and the fact that current regulations were looked over; like what you currently must do by law: code of compliance, resource consents if it\u2019s a large building, every year get a building warrant of fitness. The amount of burden that puts on a lot of people who are doing the right thing\u2014checks every month, every day, every year; getting those checked by the councils; keeping them registered as a building warrant of fitness. Those are quite a large burden, and when those are overlooked, that\u2019s when stuff happens\u2014bad stuff, death and pain\u2014but that doesn\u2019t mean that more regulation is always the solution.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000646\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe are supporting this to select committee because vulnerable tenants deserve better protection, but protection that prices them out of housing altogether is not protection at all. I hope that during the select committee discussion we hear from all those parties in a robust way, about the effects they\u2019ve had living in boarding houses and the effects they\u2019ve had providing them. I think we can do well, in this country, to lift the standards, but we must make sure we\u2019re doing it in the correct way. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022 data-id=\u00222da2e436e34c95cc8fba03f6e8b7e4a6\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000647\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002248ce26e54d83406399b875df20400dec\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222da2e436e34c95cc8fba03f6e8b7e4a6\u0022\u003EANDY FOSTER (NZ First) (20:08)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of New Zealand First, also to speak in cautious support of this bill. I just want to say congratulations and thank you to the Hon Jenny Salesa, as other speakers have done, for the conversations we\u2019ve had about this. I think we probably need to have a few more of them.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000648\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhere are we at with this? We are cautiously supporting this legislation. I note that it\u2019s really about frustration about the lack of data about boarding houses. I mean, at the moment, if you look at the requirements under the Residential Tenancies Act, broadly, the definition of a boarding house is at least six tenants, and each tenant must be intended to stay for at least 28 days or more, but the requirements on them are pretty much the same as the requirements, in many cases, on other renting arrangements. That includes having written agreements; it includes lodging that landlords can request a bond for\u2014although sometimes I suspect they may not do. If you\u2019ve got a bond there, you\u2019ve certainly got to register that with the Tenancy Tribunal, so that information should be available. That\u2019s one of the questions which I would like to see teased out as we go through this: what information actually is already required in law? What are the outs in that law, if you like? And are we in the situation where we actually have a large number of boarding houses\u2014it seems to be the case\u2014who are not actually complying with the law as it is at the moment? I think that\u2019s one of the questions: does the law need to be changed, or is it the fact that some of them are not, or many of them are not, actually complying with the law at the moment?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000649\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe second question that I want to ask as we go through this process\u2014and I know that the mover of the bill, the Hon Jenny Salesa, has the right of reply at the end\u2014is the intention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000650\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EOnce we\u2019ve got better quality information\u2014let\u2019s say we\u2019ve got a number of boarding house owners who are not complying with the law at the moment, or they are complying with the law at the moment and this will make them go a bit further\u2014it\u2019s the issue there, at the end of the explanation: \u201CIn establishing a register of boarding houses, this Bill will support the monitoring of boarding house compliance with residential tenancy laws (such as the Healthy Homes Standards)\u201D.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000651\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know, I think, when we had the first conversation on this some months ago\u2014I\u2019m directing this at the Hon Jenny Salesa\u2014there were some pretty horrific stories about the quality of some of these. Obviously, there\u2019s been some discussion about the Loafers Lodge situation, but the question is going to be: what\u2019s going to happen if we push the standards up higher? Do a lot of those drop out of the market? Then what happens to the people who are currently accommodated in those boarding houses? Do we end up with a group of people who then have nowhere to go and end up on the street and we\u2019ve got another problem?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000652\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think all of these things need to be teased out during the select committee, but it would be useful, just in the right of reply at the end of this introductory reading, to have a little bit of that teased out, if it wasn\u2019t already teased out in the introduction. Again, on behalf of New Zealand First, we are cautiously supporting this bill, at least to the select committee, and we\u2019ll see what we get from this, because I think we\u2019ll get a lot of different situations which people will raise with us, and I think that will be most useful.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000653\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other point I\u2019d like to make is just in terms of people who actually end up on the street. We talk a lot about homeless people. Having had some conversations with some of those folks who were on the street when I was Mayor of Wellington, going around the streets of the city, many of them actually did have a place to go. They chose not to at a particular point in time; they wanted to be there on the streets. Sometimes it\u2019s because of social reasons they want to be there; sometimes it\u2019s for the reason they don\u2019t actually want to be at their place of residence. The question is: there will be an interface, potentially, between this legislation requiring higher standards and potentially the impact on homelessness, so I think we need to tease out all of those things. I commend this bill to the House and look forward to the select committee process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022 data-id=\u0022eeca696eef8ab8a269c85e9b3b799308\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000654\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b27d6090c07e47fb960e52f168ce01b3\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eeca696eef8ab8a269c85e9b3b799308\u0022\u003EHon KIERAN McANULTY (Labour) (20:12)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s really encouraging, yet again, to see an issue that has been brought forward via the members\u2019 bill process where it appears the whole of Parliament agrees. It\u2019s disappointing, and I say that sincerely, that Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori haven\u2019t taken their call, because it would have been, I think, a nice signal to everybody that cares about those that find themselves in precarious housing situations to see that every party in Parliament wishes to see this issue discussed further by the select committee process. I do want to acknowledge those Government parties that have expressed support, at least to the select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000655\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is an important issue and, as we see homelessness increase to the levels that we have, with front-line providers saying that it is the highest it\u2019s ever been\u2014the likes of the Wellington City Mission say that it is the worst they have ever experienced\u2014we\u2019re going to have more people in precarious accommodation circumstances, and boarding houses certainly are one of those. The question as to whether they should be registered is a valid one. I want to acknowledge my friend and colleague Jenny Salesa, who is an extremely active and effective local MP\u2014and I don\u2019t think anyone would say anything counter to that\u2014who listens to her constituents and identifies issues and brings them here to Parliament. This is one of those occasions.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000656\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EJenny has identified that this is an issue not just in her constituency but, frankly, everywhere. This isn\u2019t just a city issue; this is just as relevant to where I live in Masterton as it is in South Auckland or elsewhere. In fact, I can think of a circumstance in recent history in Masterton where what was a hotel then became a boarding house. It closed down because of unsuitable conditions that could have all been avoided if there was a regulatory system in place that set minimum standards. But, to Andy Foster\u2019s point, the people that left this had nowhere to go.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000657\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is a massive question mark here: are we as a country satisfied that, for the sake of getting people off the street, any sort of accommodation will do? I would say no, we\u2019re not. But how do we then ensure there is a minimum standard, and why should people\u2014if a boarding house is the only option available to them\u2014put up with standards that are below levels that other people in similar circumstances would expect to meet?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000658\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased this is going to a select committee stage. There have been some legitimate questions raised. I know, given I know the members who are raising them, that they mean them sincerely. We want to make sure we get this right, but we\u2019re not going be able to do this on the floor of the House at this stage, at the first reading. We\u2019re going to do that at select committee, and we\u2019re going to do that at the committee of the whole House. I\u2019m really encouraged to see that this will have the level of support to get to that stage. Once again, good on you, Jenny Salesa, for bringing it forward.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022 data-id=\u0022ca14d41d91f40b18185a1a55b64cbe12\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000659\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022784f4e929aed4ea6a05d1a10add6eccb\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ca14d41d91f40b18185a1a55b64cbe12\u0022\u003ERYAN HAMILTON (National\u2014Hamilton East) (20:16)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. Madam Speaker. It\u2019s a privilege to stand and rise on this members\u2019 day and speak, in particular, to this piece of legislation, the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill. Again, as has been done regularly tonight, may I congratulate Jenny Salesa on this bill. I haven\u2019t had a lot to do with Jenny, apart from in the Regulations Review Committee, which Madam Speaker, you probably would, of course, realise is one of the most riveting of all the select committees that we have in Parliament.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000660\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI got to join it\u2014it was one of my first jobs\u2014and I really wondered if I\u2019d made some correct life choices at that point! Fortunately, I was flanked by several lawyers\u2014the Hon James Meager and Joseph Mooney\u2014who helped me navigate, and of course the Hon David Parker as chair, who was very diplomatic in that role and helped me to find my feet. I congratulate you, Jenny, on this and the luck of the draw, as it were, and what would certainly appear to be favour in advancing the cause of your legislation at this point. I acknowledge you on that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000661\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe often get a hard time in the National Party in terms of our stance on housing\u2014that we\u2019re contributing to rough sleeping and to those vulnerable people\u2014but if you look at our record, even over the last two years, we can speak with some conviction to what we\u2019ve done, because we know that housing is an ecosystem, or it\u2019s a system of the worst affected, the vulnerable, who rely on emergency housing. I spent six years as trustee and chair of Te Whare Korowai, the Hamilton Christian Nightshelter. We saw firsthand\u2014in fact, at the time, the night shelter operated literally as a night shelter and we\u2019d kick people out at eight in the morning. Through COVID, we had to adapt, and actually now the organisation is run incredibly capably by the manager, Joanne, and is a 24/7 operation with several properties, including many transitional housing beds.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000662\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat whole system is designed to help those at, essentially, \u201Cthe last hotel\u201D, we would call it, where there\u2019s no questions. If someone needs a place to stay, we\u2019re able to accommodate them. That\u2019s at one end of the spectrum, and of course, as we know in 2023 when we came into Government, we had a lot of emergency housing crisis across motels and hotels all over the country. We knew that wasn\u2019t a sustainable place for children, and we targeted that as one of our priorities under Minister Tama Potaka and very quickly exceeded our target in eliminating the hotel situation and getting those from emergency housing into good social housing, wraparound support, and all those things which are needed. There\u2019s still a little bit of work to do there, but we haven\u2019t taken our eye off that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000663\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen, of course, there\u2019s social housing, which is another piece in the system. With K\u0101inga Ora (KO), there was a lot of mismanagement with the financial organisation which we had to remedy; reinstate a board, set some protocols, and actually make tenants responsible for their actions, as well. One of the first things I had as a local MP was complaints from neighbours about unruly tenants. KO had, effectively, their hands tied, because they had little ability to intervene. We changed that, and now I don\u2019t have those complaints any more; I genuinely don\u2019t.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000664\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know, also, the team at KO works really well with those people, placing them in the right environments and giving them the right support, and that\u2019s fantastic. Of course, we know, with KO, 50 percent of the housing was only pumping out three- and four-bedroom units when 50 percent of people needed one- and two-bedroom units, and they were only producing 12 percent. We\u2019ve amended that, through the work of the Hon Chris Bishop, and that\u2019s having an incredible effect on social housing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000665\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThen, of course, we look at what we\u2019re doing through fast-track legislation, the IFF legislation\u2014the infrastructure funding and financing. Of course, an area close to my electorate is Te Awa Lakes, where they\u2019re going to be building 2,500 homes, some of which will be affordable\u2014another key cornerstone\u2014and I hope the IFF legislation will also be supported across the House, as it was largely a bipartisan tool to help free up funding and financing to unlock housing and not let infrastructure constraints stand in the way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000666\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe look forward to supporting this tonight to select committee. I see it was in select committee in 2011-14. Obviously, it has been permeating for some time. Sometimes, unfortunately, this House isn\u2019t very efficient at dealing with things that need to be changed. This is an opportunity to revisit that and take it to the select committee and, to use Joseph Mooney\u2019s words, panel-beat the process and make sure we end up with something which we can also support. It\u2019s my pleasure to support this to the next stage. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000667\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022180f6c66df4e2d0a53a534a8ab22c612\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Helen White\u2014happy birthday.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u0022272147fdbe9a1d548a953780e3bbe0d8\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000668\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022272147fdbe9a1d548a953780e3bbe0d8\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert) (20:21)\u003C/span\u003E: Oh, thank you. Thank you very much. I was absolutely thrilled to see this come out of the biscuit tin, and I am so grateful to my colleague Hon Jenny Salesa for having drafted this and put it in as a priority for her. I have a constituency where this will make a huge difference. We have boarding houses in my area, and I have been concerned about the stories I\u2019ve heard. I know this is a problem throughout the country, and I\u2019m thrilled to see us, as a committee, the Social Services and Community Committee, get this to look at it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000669\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI acknowledge the cautious support that we have from two of the parties here and Cameron Luxton\u2019s comment that he was concerned, after reading Ezra Klein and Derek Thompson\u2019s \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EAbundance\u003C/span\u003E, that perhaps we would do some damage by over-regulating and making it impossible for people to run homes like this. It was a book that I was very attracted to in lots of ways. The problem with those books, as you settle down about them, is that they are too blunt an instrument. There might be some merit in rethinking those rules, and we should do it all the time, but we should also be vigilant about our values and our needs as a community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000670\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to talk, in a way, about my portfolio of sexual and family violence prevention, which perhaps shines a light on that. I got the portfolio not that long ago\u2014not a year ago\u2014and it\u2019s quite a heavy portfolio to get. I went to see someone at the organisation called Help, and they were talking to me about someone being referred into a boarding house and that it happened because their relationship was a violent one. They had been scared because there was not a lock on the door. They were told not to worry about it, and they were raped. That is a story that I take really seriously. It is about making sure that, as a society, we give people safety. People won\u2019t leave violent relationships if that\u2019s the option that they have.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000671\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI wanted to talk for a minute about my fear that what we\u2019re doing when we narrow that ability for people to move into the nurture of our society through emergency housing, through alternative housing, is so damaging to the fabric of our society. It impacts on our children. One of the things that comes up over and over again is that, now, people are asked whether they contribute to, or have contributed to, their homelessness. That is a narrower way of looking at things, and actually life is really complicated and people in those situations probably already feel they\u2019re contributing to their situation. That\u2019s probably the reality of a lot of people\u2019s view of themselves in that situation. Their esteem is low, and they don\u2019t need to be asked that question. If, in fact, there is narrower criteria, they end up in their cars or on our streets.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000672\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIf the boarding houses are not safe, if we don\u2019t take adequate care, we end up with a situation which is completely, completely damaging, and it\u2019s not just the person in that situation; it\u2019s their kids. It means they don\u2019t leave. Now, there\u2019s an absolutely stunning piece of information I\u2019d like to put before you, because it shocked me and I\u2019m still thinking about it, and it was out of Canadian research. It said that, if somebody rings a women\u2019s refuge and they get turned down, 80\u00A0percent of those people never come back. They never ask again; they internalise that situation, and they think it\u2019s their problem. We have to provide a range of solutions. There will likely always be boarding houses, but we need to make sure they\u2019re safe places for people, as a bare minimum. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022 data-id=\u0022ad901a0f8f84501811e3c70df1bda800\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000673\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ad901a0f8f84501811e3c70df1bda800\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD (National\u2014Bay of Plenty) (20:26)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I\u2019m not sure who I\u2019m going to congratulate first, whether it\u2019s Helen White for her birthday or Jenny Salesa for having her bill drawn.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000674\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022446ec2690c724b8189770c259d2e676a\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00225cd34944ad7dd50589b74b1f55cd7f93\u0022\u003EHon Nicola Grigg\u003C/span\u003E: 32, is it, Helen?\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000675\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cb40eb85aab340879622563050ab25fa\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022e200d47585c4afe93ebbc8231313bb1d\u0022\u003ETOM RUTHERFORD\u003C/span\u003E: Yeah, 21 for Helen, actually\u2014and for Jenny having her bill drawn, and then actually beyond being drawn, actually getting what seems to be universal support across the House at this first reading. Obviously, noting we haven\u2019t heard a contribution from Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, but I suspect the Green Party will be voting proxy on their behalf and we\u2019ll see how their support lines up on this legislation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000676\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs speakers before me have outlined, both Joseph Mooney and Ryan Hamilton, we are cautiously supporting this at first reading through to the select committee stage for a couple of reasons: one, to have the opportunity to hear from submitters on the legislation, to tell us how they think it will work in practice, whether they think it is necessary, from the general public and from those who operate in the sector; and two, as rightly said by Joseph Mooney, to panel beat the legislation, to work it into a sort of tip-top shape that we think it can actually work in today\u2019s society.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000677\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe know that boarding houses across New Zealand provide accommodation for some of the most vulnerable people in our community; people who have really, in some cases, extremely limited options to where they can choose to call home, and that may well be due to circumstances often beyond their control, whether it\u2019s mental health issues or disability issues. Often, it relates to substance abuse and addictions. It can even be things like poor credit history or involvement with the justice system one way or another. Often, they find themselves living in boarding houses. We have some of the most vulnerable Kiwis in those circumstances living there and ensuring that they get the support they need when they\u2019re there and that the system has their back\u2014in a way.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000678\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvidence does show that boarding houses continue to operate\u2014in many cases; not all of them, but many of them\u2014with some really subpar maintenance, poor conditions, poor health. Many people tonight have talked about the Loafers Lodge example, with really bad fire safety standards, which is hugely concerning, particularly for our most vulnerable people. Tenants often face barriers to raising their concerns, whether it\u2019s that they can\u2019t even access management\u2014some of them might not even know how to go about doing so in the first place\u2014including the fear of eviction if they raise issues with things they\u2019re not happy with, and shorter termination periods as well, which they can be held over them too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000679\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is why we believe that appropriate legislation may well be needed in this space, but we want to make sure\u2014and this is where we\u2019re cautiously supporting it at first reading\u2014that it\u2019s tightly targeted to where it is needed the most. We want to avoid unnecessary red tape. We came in as a Government and slashed a number of red tapes across the sector. Now, that\u2019s not to say that we don\u2019t support regulation and red tape where necessary, but we don\u2019t want to be adding it unnecessarily and as an additional burden. We want to make sure this legislation strikes the right balance, and we want it to have a real focus on lifting safety and quality outcomes in boarding houses for those that I just mentioned, who are some of the most vulnerable in our community, rather than just creating a really broad sort of compliance-heavy registration requirement, which we just think will go against that. Actually, Jenny Salesa\u2019s intentions with the legislation are about bringing the standards of boarding houses up, rather than lowering them by bringing in additional regulation. At the moment, we don\u2019t think it is targeted enough to where we want it to be. That\u2019s why we\u2019re sending it to the select committee, to give it the opportunity to get some light on the legislation so we can hear opportunities to improve it and to make it better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000680\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do note that it did go to the former Social Services and Community Committee for inquiry during the 2011-14 Parliament, and they did highlight a number of issues in particular. The member\u2019s intention with the bill is to create a register that has some of the most basic information about the boarding house\u2014such as the name of the landlord, their contact details, their address for service, and the address and description of all boarding houses that currently have been granted a boarding house tenancy\u2014and making sure that information is publicly available, probably like the New Zealand Companies Office, for example, where you can look it up, see who it is, see what they operate, and see if they\u2019ve got a number of other operations across the country.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000681\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I\u2019ve said, the National Party supports this bill at first reading. We welcome the opportunity to hear from the public on their submissions on the legislation. I congratulate the member for having it drawn, and at this stage, we commend it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000682\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022d9d2bfb5c719c03a5d2a0a291573ddff\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: Just before I call the Hon Jenny Salesa, I wanted to make a comment. A couple of people have referred, in the House tonight from both sides actually, to a particular party choosing not to have a call. That\u2019s acceptable in my view, but I think we need to be careful when we start predicting whose party might vote for what. It comes very close to breaching another Standing Order. Thank you. In reply, the Hon Jenny Salesa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022fd2c9c3aa7974099bfcaac8ea7452994\u0022 data-id=\u002253657eb251cea864d8ebdecde12c1a9c\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000683\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022fd2c9c3aa7974099bfcaac8ea7452994\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002253657eb251cea864d8ebdecde12c1a9c\u0022\u003EHon JENNY SALESA (Labour\u2014Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu) (20:31)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much. I would like to begin my contribution by thanking all of my colleagues from right across the House. I\u2019ve got to say, when I drafted some bullet points for this address and reply, I did not expect that I would get this much support. Can I thank the National Party, the New Zealand First Party, as well as the ACT Party\u2014all of the coalition Government parties\u2014as well as, of course, the Green Party, who were the first party to give me their support on this member\u2019s bill. I understand from the Green Party, who hold the votes of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori, that they are also voting in favour of this member\u2019s bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000684\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve been in Parliament now for a number of years. This is my very first member\u2019s bill to ever be drawn out of the biscuit tin. I\u2019m not actually that fortunate. For it to actually have unanimous support is actually really unexpected, but I\u2019m glad that I have it, because this is a really serious issue for New Zealand. I didn\u2019t speak about it in my first contribution, but one of the main reasons why I drafted this bill is because this issue, in my own electorate of Panmure-\u014Ct\u0101huhu\u2014particularly the \u014Ct\u0101huhu part of my electorate\u2014is a really big issue. The issue of boarding houses is something I have had other constituents come to my office about and that I have had police in the past reach out about. The manager of the town centre in \u014Ct\u0101huhu reached out to me as the local MP.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000685\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019ve also got to say that, as local members of Parliament, this is something we all do. I know. We go door knocking, and in doing that, I came across a house that I thought was just a house. It looked like just a normal house from the outside, but when I walked up to get into this house, there was actually no front door. The whole front door had been taken off its hinges, and it was used so that you could not fall through the actual stairs. When I walked into introduce myself as the local MP and to offer my services, I noticed, in the sitting room, which was a shared space with the kitchen, there was no running water. There were no taps. All the taps were taken off. On my way out, to go back out on to the street, in the place where there should have been a bathroom and a toilet facility, there was nothing. This was actually a boarding house that had no running water and no bathrooms, and it was not fit for human beings to live in. I know this is not the only boarding house like that in my electorate.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000686\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis is one of the main reasons why this is a bill that\u2019s needed. There is no register of boarding houses. We don\u2019t know how many there are across New Zealand. We don\u2019t know who is compliant and who is non-compliant, and, as they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. A public register that brings transparency would ensure that landlords who profit from housing our most vulnerable citizens will be held to a certain standard.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000687\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI will end with where I began, by thanking each and every one of the members of Parliament from all the different parties in the House of Parliament in New Zealand. Thank you so much for your support. I look forward to having this member\u2019s bill discussed at the select committee, and I also look forward to making sure that the bill is fit for purpose for all of us, especially for all of the tenants that live in boarding houses right across Aotearoa New Zealand. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EN\u014D reira, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 koutou, t\u0113n\u0101 t\u0101tou katoa.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000688\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000689\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000690\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u00227736f392e72d6fde4fa672f5e4aaa245\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022 data-id=\u0022f0c09c25182ef50d616130fe1025b95d\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000691\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f0c09c25182ef50d616130fe1025b95d\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER (20:36)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Residential Tenancies (Registration of Boarding House Landlords) Amendment Bill be considered by the Social Services and Community Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000692\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000693\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Social Services and Community Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000694\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u00226f9d57cc49ef4e51f2ba8d69b2ef8e70\u0022\u003EDrug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000695\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022c65d63df7ebf3b59656208f3d129485e\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u0022d12949ab404c61d02b985100db613f0a\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000696\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d12949ab404c61d02b985100db613f0a\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (20:36)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Health Committee to consider the bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000697\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENo one should die from a drug overdose. No one should be scared to call for help when they or someone they are with needs medical care. Around three New Zealanders die each week from a treatable, accidental overdose. Fear of being arrested can delay or stop people from seeking urgent life-preserving medical care. Normally, when someone calls an ambulance to save a life, they\u2019re considered a hero. When someone is trying to help their friend experiencing an overdose, that should remain the case. This simple law will mean that young people won\u2019t feel scared to call for help when someone\u2019s life is at risk.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000698\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThank you to all of the families and the people with lived experience for sharing your stories, to the care support workers, to the first responders, to the drug-checking services at music festivals, to the needle exchanges, and to the care support workers and organisations working to keep our communities safe from drug harm. Thank you to the New Zealand Drug Foundation for your evidence and mahi and the deep care and enduring relationships you have with families and those with lived experience. To everyone who has championed this bill to finally make it to Parliament, thank you. I mihi to former MPs who have worked on drug law reform to make our country safer\u2014like Green MP Nandor Tanczos and our current Green Party co-leader Chl\u00F6e Swarbrick.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000699\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo anyone who has ever lost a loved one to a drug overdose, this one is for you. The Greens will continue to fight for sensible common-sense laws that ensure people receive healthcare, not handcuffs. I implore all the political parties to support this bill to select committee, where we can hear from organisations like St John Ambulance, the Salvation Army, needle exchanges, health-promotion organisations, first responders, and the New Zealand Drug Foundation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000700\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWith the blessing of his wh\u0101nau, I\u2019m going to tell you about Jacob Gunnell. He was 24 years old when he died. Jacob is here in this picture today. Jacob\u2019s mum, Shelley, told me this morning she believes that, if Jacob had had an ambulance or help called, he would still be alive today. She said that\u2019s a sad feeling inside and now their family have to live with a big hole in their hearts every day.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000701\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThat fateful night, Jacob had an unexpected reaction to LSD. He ran out on to the street and laid down in the middle of the road. His friends were trying to get him up and directed traffic around him, but they didn\u2019t call 111. Jacob was not himself. He was clammy, disoriented, and calling people different names. Shelley believes they didn\u2019t call for help because they were afraid of getting in trouble with the police. In a state of confusion, Jacob ran\u2014and fell to his death. Shelley said that if someone had called 111 and they weren\u2019t going to get in trouble, maybe he would be alive. In the eulogies at Jacob\u2019s funeral, his family all repeated, \u201CIf you ring police or an ambulance, you could save a life.\u201D\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000702\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETo all the families who have lost loved ones, I promise the Green Party will continue to fight for sensible drug laws that will save lives. Our good Samaritan bill makes narrow amendments to the Misuse of Drugs Act 1975, the Bail Act 2000, and the Parole Act 2002 to ensure that when someone calls for lifesaving help during a suspected overdose or serious adverse drug reaction, they will not be charged for specified low-level drug offences, which include having or using drugs for personal use; having drug utensils; enabling premises for low-level offending, or non-commercial social supply; and breaching parole conditions relating to drug use, which recognises the heightened overdose risks after leaving prison.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000703\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill doesn\u2019t protect dealing or serious crime; it\u2019s about one simple rule: if in doubt, call for help. Evidence shows good Samaritan laws overseas increase emergency calls and save lives. With rising opioid harm, limited naloxone, and more potent synthetic drugs, this is a practical step to prevent avoidable overdose deaths here in Aotearoa. This bill sends a clear message to people that they should not hesitate to seek help, as this hesitation, brought on by fear of prosecution, is what leads to fatal outcomes. It is not only those who have fatal overdoses but people across the spectrum, including people who have an unexpected reaction. If people do not call for help when they have taken drugs and have an unexpected reaction, there is a missed opportunity to refer them to services to prevent further harm from happening. Our good Samaritan law will save lives and prevent future harm, which will make our country safer.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000704\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe Greens always treat drug use as a health issue, and we know most Kiwis see drug addiction as a health issue, too. Many of us know what it\u2019s like to have a family member or friend who is addicted to meth, alcohol, or opioids. We know the harm this causes and the limitations to the current approach of short-term, punitive measures. The current approach to drug laws does not make our country safer. Let\u2019s proudly hold our heads high and be a country who shines a light on the darkness and brings humanity into politics. Let\u2019s have the guts to admit when something isn\u2019t working to make our country safer. Let\u2019s not be a country who hides our issues and locks them away, allowing more and more preventable harm to happen across our country. Let\u2019s apply some common sense and save some lives and save a lot of heartache and pain with this one small law change.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000705\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe may have different views on which substances should be illegal, but I hope we can agree that, if someone is over dosing on drugs, they should receive lifesaving care. All I\u2019m asking here is for our laws to support people to be a hero and save lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000706\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhen I\u2019ve travelled across the country, I\u2019ve spoken to families who have lost loved ones and whose lives have been forever changed, like Jacob\u2019s mum, Shelley, who might always ask, \u201CWhat if someone had called for help?\u201D I\u2019m very aware that we still have a lot of work to do in our communities so that our young people and anyone using opioids to cope with the existence of life in an economic system where people feel the need to escape\u2014there is a lot of work needed ahead to reduce drug harm and make our communities safer, like overhauling the 50-year-old Misuse of Drugs Act, the national roll-out of Te Ara Oranga, an inquiry from the mental health and addiction cross-party group, expanding drug-checking, naloxone take-home kits, drug consumption rooms, expanding needle-exchange programmes, decriminalisation of injection equipment, decriminalisation of drug possession for personal use, adequate rehab in prisons, more funding for drug harm reduction organisations. But, right now, all I am asking for is for people to be allowed to save lives\u2014like Jacob\u2019s\u2014without stigma and shame and the fear of being arrested for being a hero. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000707\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224cf6752dabf34d0eb8ae92457823e4ba\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00220b348538bcf742e3c06b978634f04c8c\u0022\u003EDEPUTY SPEAKER\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022 data-id=\u0022561862a6ddbafa1e09cc74ab7a23f4f3\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000708\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022200839810eb94155be7306bf21d350dd\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022561862a6ddbafa1e09cc74ab7a23f4f3\u0022\u003ESAM UFFINDELL (National\u2014Tauranga) (20:46)\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker, thank you for the opportunity to rise to speak on the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill. I want to acknowledge the member Kahurangi Carter, who has brought this into the House: well done on having your member\u2019s bill drawn and well done on a very impassioned speech as well. I\u2019d also like to acknowledge Jacob, who you had in the photograph throughout your speech, and recognise his family. I\u2019m unsure whether they are watching this evening\u2014quite possibly they are\u2014but, if they are, my thoughts and prayers are with you and also with all the other families and victims who have suffered harm and loss of life due to drug use, drug addiction, in all its different forms and all of the different situations that can spiral out of that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000709\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge all of the families out there who may live with people with drug addiction or alcohol addiction, and all of the turmoil and distress that has caused in New Zealand for a number of years and continues to do so and, unfortunately, is likely to continue to do so into the future as we work hard as a Government\u2014and I know that the Opposition is in the space as well, too\u2014doing what we can to limit and reduce the impacts of drug and alcohol addiction and harm across New Zealand.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000710\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow, this bill aims to ensure that those who call for lifesaving support in the event of an overdose or a drug reaction are protected from being charged for low-level offences. Often referred to as a good Samaritan bill or a good Samaritan Act, it would amend the Misuse of Drugs Act to ensure those who seek help are not routinely criminally charged and they can go and make those calls for emergency services to come and help them in such situations. There are a number of provisions that would be inserted, and there is information detailing what a specified person would be. I won\u2019t bore you by going through that; members will have had the opportunity to see that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000711\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI will also note that the member Kahurangi Carter has nominated the Health Committee to hear this bill, so depending on how it progresses this evening, Ms Carter\u2014we will see\u2014I may be learning a lot more about it in the time to come. If that is the case, we will give it full consideration, and we look forward to seeing you in front of the Health Committee in due course if that is the way this evening eventuates.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000712\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are a couple of comments I\u2019ll make around how the police respond when there is a health crisis, and it is noted that they do routinely use discretion on minor possession in instances where lifesaving help is sought. Health services treat anyone in a crisis, without refusing them or without billing. We have a wonderful system in New Zealand, where it is largely universal and it will get out there and render those services of support to people when they need them most.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000713\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere are a number of international good Samaritan models around the world. They largely arose in jurisdictions that faced significant fentanyl-driven opioid crises. That is not necessarily the situation here in New Zealand, and while it may be growing, my wish is that we never reach the proportions or the epidemic situations that some of us will have seen on Instagram clips and the likes of what is happening in some cities around the world\u2014truly horrific, despicable situations.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000714\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDrug harm is an extremely difficult issue to deal with, and we are working hard on this as a Government. Last year, we announced $30 million as part of a meth action plan to increase the services available to those communities hit hardest by meth. We want to be picking people up in the system as early as possible. The sooner we can identify people with addiction and get them the services they need, the better.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000715\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWorkforce is a big part of this. I note that the mental health and addiction workforce has grown by more than 11 percent over the last couple of years. This is a good achievement from this Government. I will commend the Minister for Mental Health, the Hon Matt Doocey, for all of his hard work in this space. Vacancy rates among drug and alcohol counsellors have dropped from more than 14 percent in September 2023 to 5.5\u00A0percent as of September 2025. That\u2019s not to say there isn\u2019t more work to do in that space; that would just be a foolish comment, obviously.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000716\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is a lot more work to do, and there is also a need for more addiction services around New Zealand. I think anyone here from outside of the main centres\u2014I see my colleague Jan Tinetti over there from Tauranga\u2014will be acutely aware of the inadequate supply of mental health and addiction services that we have in our region. It\u2019s something I know that we will be, once again, in a bipartisan manner, doing what we can to try to promote and influence some more of those services coming to our region. I know there will be a lot of people from other parts of New Zealand who will be doing the same thing. When you look at where we are relative to other countries, such as Australia and their number of beds per population in this space, we don\u2019t have enough. We are inadequately represented, and there is more work to do there.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000717\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is a lot more to do to ensure that we reduce harm of meth and alcohol. In March, we announced the first ever action plan focused on supporting the addiction sector, which brings together initiatives like Fetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder and the meth plan\u2014about $20 million of new investment under this Government each year into addiction services so that people can receive support when they need it.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000718\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EUltimately, in this first reading, the National Party is not going to be supporting this bill. I know that the member was already aware of that, so it won\u2019t come as a surprise to her. In saying that, though, we will see where it goes. You were quite confident when we were outside of the House before. If it is that it comes to the Health Committee, I give you my surest intent that we will consider it to the best of our ability and make sure that we give it due consideration and listen to all of the submissions that come through. At this time, the National Party opposes this bill. We will not be supporting it, but we will give it due consideration if it progresses further.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022 data-id=\u0022f6654e68d43b59e5a0a5b0aafc101562\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000719\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00224781da7e0ee64557a3bcb565f241de8e\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022f6654e68d43b59e5a0a5b0aafc101562\u0022\u003ECAMILLA BELICH (Labour) (20:54)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I want to start by congratulating Kahurangi Carter for bringing this bill to the House. It is an achievement to get a member\u2019s bill through, but not every member\u2019s bill makes the significant and meaningful change that this bill proposes. That\u2019s an extra special achievement, so congratulations to Kahurangi Carter.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000720\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also just want to acknowledge the heartfelt story that she told the House about Jacob Gunnell and his wh\u0101nau and the circumstances of his passing. It\u2019s also really meaningful, I think, when we can look at legislation that speaks to the experience that the community we serve has come to us with issues on. That clearly is the case with this particular bill, so thank you very much for bringing this bill to our attention.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000721\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe will be supporting this bill through to the select committee. From what previous members have said, hopefully that will be a good opportunity to look through some of the changes that it will implement. Other members have already gone through exactly what this bill will do\u2014the member herself more eloquently than I can\u2014but, just in short, it is a bill that does have evidence around the need for it. One of the pieces of evidence that we looked at when we were considering our position on this bill was the New Zealand Drug Foundation\u2019s evidence and the evidence around several coronial inquiries in recent years that have highlighted witnesses\u2019 hesitancy to call for help as a contributing factor in drug deaths. That was important evidence for us to see that there does appear to be a hesitation for some people when calling health services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000722\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEssentially, that\u2019s what this is about; it\u2019s about making sure that people do get the healthcare they need, at the appropriate time, and wanting to take away that hesitation. I would also just note, for those people who might not be supportive of this type of bill, that it does apply to minor offences. My understanding is that if health services and police came to a scene and saw a significant or very serious crime being committed, that wouldn\u2019t be included under this bill. I think that\u2019s another important consideration, too. This is not about providing avenues for people to avoid arrest in cases of serious crime. That is another factor that we considered in our support for this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000723\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnother piece of evidence that we looked at was a report from Radio New Zealand, which said that, in 2005, there were three New Zealanders who died every week from accidental drug overdoses, which seems quite extraordinary. That seems to be a very, very significantly high number of people who are affected by accidental drug overdoses, therefore showing that we do, as a Parliament, need to consider what steps we can take to make access to healthcare more accessible for those people, too.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000724\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI won\u2019t use all of my call. I\u2019m sure that the member is keen to hear other speeches and get progress through the House. I just wanted once again to commend Kahurangi Carter for bringing this bill to the House, acknowledge those who\u2019ve shared their stories with her, and provide the Labour Party\u2019s support for her in this process.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022 data-id=\u0022ce83bcc91c50df243f3afb8d2a35f1df\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000725\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022443f23de4cbd464f91833e6c466c98c0\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022ce83bcc91c50df243f3afb8d2a35f1df\u0022\u003ETODD STEPHENSON (ACT) (20:58)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I rise on behalf of ACT New Zealand to speak on the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill. I also want to start by acknowledging Kahurangi Carter, the member in charge. This is her second member\u2019s bill in quite quick succession, which is quite a feat for a first-term MP, so I want to acknowledge that. She\u2019s also going to pull off another feat, I think, for a first-term Green MP: she\u2019s going to get the support of the ACT Party on the first reading to send this to the select committee, which is quite an achievement. I just want to get that out of the way and get that up front.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000726\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to acknowledge the story she shared about Jacob and obviously, again, acknowledge his family. It was obviously very generous of them to let you share that story, so I do just want to acknowledge that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000727\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWe think this bill is pretty simple at its heart. As the previous speaker said, it is actually shocking that, on average, three New Zealanders a week die from a drug overdose. These aren\u2019t necessarily people shooting up in the streets or in the gutters; there are actually sometimes young or old people from every part of New Zealand\u2014a wide demographic\u2014and some of them may be long-term users, and some of them might not be. They might have just been experimenting for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000728\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDrugs are dangerous substances, and sometimes they are life-threatening, and they are obviously addictive, and there\u2019s a lot of other consequences of taking them. The reality is that a prohibition on drugs hasn\u2019t stopped their use. In the current settings, it is sometimes unclear, if you reach out for help, what could be the consequences.  So we want to make sure that when something does go wrong, someone\u2019s friends, family members, the people that are with them don\u2019t hesitate in calling emergency services and that they do pick up the phone, because, again, if you can get help quickly, often drug overdoses can actually be attended to and people can actually survive. So, you know, it does actually matter how quickly people get medical attention. Actually, between 2015 and 2024, over 6,000 people were hospitalised for drug poisoning\u2014that\u2019s quite a large number. So we just want to make sure, where there is an unclear law like this one, that it actually is clarified.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000729\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also do want to be clear about what this bill is not. Again, I want to acknowledge Camilla Belich. She did say this relates to low-level offences, but this is not a \u201Csoft on crime\u201D bill; if it was, ACT certainly wouldn\u2019t be supporting it. Obviously, we are totally against people who peddle drugs, and we are very proud of the work that this coalition Government, which ACT is a part of, has done around law and order and crime. Minister McKee has done as much as any Minister to ensure that gangs are cracked down on, that victims are put first, etc.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000730\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo, you know, this is a modest bill. It does some important changes, but we just want to make sure that the law is clear when people reach out for help, that they are going to be protected. It\u2019s not about excusing or promoting drug use. Certainly, we don\u2019t condone illegal drug use, but it is making sure that the law is clear. ACT is very much about ensuring, where there is bad law or uncertainty, that that clarity is obtained.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000731\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI was also very pleased, selfishly, that it\u2019s going to the Health Committee\u2014I thought for a minute it might be going to the Justice Committee. Again, my good colleague Cameron Luxton is on the Health Committee, and he will give this bill the attention it deserves. We commend it to the House. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022 data-id=\u0022abea333c5d9a5cb5967d2c0a5ee6b5d2\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000732\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f36277cb754947fa93977a31a33abd49\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022abea333c5d9a5cb5967d2c0a5ee6b5d2\u0022\u003EHon CASEY COSTELLO (Minister of Customs) (21:02)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of New Zealand First to speak on the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill. Firstly, I\u2019d really like to acknowledge Kahurangi Carter for her empathy, for her kindness, for her consideration, and her clarity in the message that she is sending in this space. It is important that we communicate the need to always seek help, and I think it is a very sad indictment on our society that we have a message that is taken up by anyone that they would defer or refuse to call for help on the risk of a low-level drug offence. I hope that we are a better society than that.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000733\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut in my instances of experience in this space, it is not fear of prosecution that prevents people from seeking help; it is a lack of knowledge, it is a lack of awareness, it is a lack of appreciation of the seriousness and severity of people\u2019s conditions. I have, unfortunately, attended deaths where it has been alcohol overdose, where people have thought, \u201CI\u2019ll just put them in the car and they\u2019ll sleep it off.\u201D and they have died, tragically\u2014young people. That is a lack of awareness, that is a lack of appreciation, that is not taking the situation seriously, that is not appreciating what harm these chemicals and substances cause to young and old bodies. It is really tragic, and I think there is a lot we can do in this space to build awareness, to appreciate what a simple call for help can do for anyone.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000734\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI just challenge the idea of legislating out discretion for police officers, for anyone who is involved in these situations. I have more faith in our police officers than I think is demonstrated here. This is not a law of clarity; this is a law of complexity. Where would this discretion apply? Who would it apply to? Everyone in the house? Just the person making the call? There are so many complexities in this bill that I don\u2019t think this is about good, clear law; I think it is about trying to resolve a social issue.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000735\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI absolutely endorse wholeheartedly the intention of this legislation, that we need to make people less afraid of asking for help. We need a system that has more empathy. We need a system that has the passion that Kahurangi Carter has demonstrated here today. We need to know that this is harmful, and we need to know that there is help out there. Yes, there is a lot more education we can do in this space. I would hate to think that we are a society where anyone who is suffering under the influence of a substance that is affecting their bodies, their respiration, their clarity of thought\u2014that we wouldn\u2019t pick up the phone and ask for help. That is the message we want to share. That is the message we want to reiterate. I don\u2019t think this is about a legislation; this is about an awareness. This is, yes, we can do better\u2014absolutely\u2014but it\u2019s not just drugs that our young people lose their lives from. It is the person who\u2019s prepared to take the car keys off them. It\u2019s the person who\u2019s prepared to stop them, take them in, get them to hospital, do all the things that will make sure that we don\u2019t lose young people because of ignorance and unawareness of the harm that is caused by these substances.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000736\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ETherefore, I absolutely applaud the effort and intention of this bill, but New Zealand First will not be commending it to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022 data-id=\u00228ee8616171dfad83b03c032ab468867e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000737\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223b11bafcf5b5427480393ffeef4fe6e8\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00228ee8616171dfad83b03c032ab468867e\u0022\u003EORIINI KAIPARA (Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori\u2014T\u0101maki Makaurau) (21:06)\u003C/span\u003E: I rise on behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori to speak to a bill that at its heart is about saving lives. It\u2019s about ensuring that when someone is in danger, when a wh\u0101nau member, a friend, or even a stranger is overdosing, the people around them can call for help without fear. For too long, our laws have created silence where there should\u2019ve been action. They\u2019ve created hesitation where there should\u2019ve been urgency. Research cited in the 2025 \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EDrug overdoses in Aotearoa\u003C/span\u003E report shows that criminalisation does not reduce harm. Instead, it stops people from seeking help when every second counts. This bill changes that, and I applaud Green MP Kahurangi Carter for her mahi\u2014\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Et\u0113n\u0101 rawa atu koe\u003C/span\u003E [\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003Every many congratulations\u003C/span\u003E].  \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000738\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat this bill does is it makes it very clear that those who call for help, those experiencing an overdose, and those who simply are present will not be punished. Possession, use, utensils, social supply\u2014these will not be barriers to saving a life. Even those on parole with drug-related conditions will be protected, because we know the risk of overdose is highest after forced sobriety.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000739\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor M\u0101ori, this isn\u2019t an abstract issue. M\u0101ori are almost three times more likely to die from an accidental overdose than non-M\u0101ori. Our people are over-policed, over-charged, and overrepresented in convictions for low-level drug offences. These are not just statistics; these are our cousins, these are our aunties, these are our uncles, and our tamariki. Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori supports this bill because it aligns strongly with our kaupapa of \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Emana motuhake\u003C/span\u003E. This bill directly addresses inequity. It reduces the disproportionate harm M\u0101ori face both from overdose and from policing. It recognises that fairness is not just a principle; it must be lived in our laws.\u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EMana mokopuna\u003C/span\u003E\u2014because more than 1,295 people have died from accidental overdose since 2016. Every one of those deaths ripples across generations. This bill will prevent some of those losses. It will keep more wh\u0101nau whole. It will give our mokopuna a future, with fewer empty seats at the table. \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003EMana \u014Drite\u003C/span\u003E\u2014because this bill weekly addresses the inequity, as I said before.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000740\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EStakeholders such as Te Puna Whakaiti P\u0101mamae Kai Whakapiri, the New Zealand Drug Foundation, have been clear. Their 2025 report recommends that our legislation must enable action. This bill does exactly that. It removes the threat of criminal liability so that people can do the right thing without fear.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000741\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBut let us also be honest: this bill is only one step. The report calls for a comprehensive overdose prevention programme, a national surveillance system, and major drug law reform. Many in our communities have been calling for the same. Some have asked why our Government continues to rely on punishment when the evidence shows that addiction is a health issue, not a criminal one; why prison is still treated as the answer when it has never solved the problem. These are questions that deserve real answers.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000742\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESupporting this bill is the bare minimum. The bigger work ahead is transforming our approach to drug use so that it is grounded in compassion, evidence, and \u003Cspan lang=\u0022mi\u0022\u003Etino rangatiratanga\u003C/span\u003E. To the people of T\u0101maki Makaurau, who I represent, your voices, your lived experiences, and your losses, your hopes are carried into this House right now. This bill reflects what many of you have been saying for years: that no one should die because someone was too afraid to call for help. If we can save even just one life, if we can prevent even one wh\u0101nau from burying someone that they love, then this bill is absolutely worth supporting. On behalf of Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori and the people of T\u0101maki Makaurau, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022 data-id=\u00220ef6e0803cd9e45a21575b1658bcedef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000743\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00223de6e6d6d57d40b483b9b558769ce301\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220ef6e0803cd9e45a21575b1658bcedef\u0022\u003EARENA WILLIAMS (Labour\u2014Manurewa) (21:10)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. It\u2019s an honour to take a call on this bill, and I want to acknowledge the parties around the House who\u2019ve given their support for it to be able to go to select committee and to hear from the New Zealanders who are affected by this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000744\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EEvery year, three New Zealanders lose their lives in overdose situations from drugs. Alcohol remains the leading cause of death that is preventable and early in our communities, and this is a real health issue that calls on all parties around the House to come to some agreement about; what we can do to improve the situation in people\u2019s lives. It affects young people, it affects older people, it affects everyone: mums, dads, and their communities\u2014people who deserve a Government that will take on some of these tough decisions and improve healthcare for people who are suffering from addiction, who need support and need preventative action and harm reduction not only in their healthcare system but in their communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000745\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the New Zealand Drug Foundation, who are here tonight. It\u2019s bills like these that continue to raise these issues on the agenda of the politics of the day and with the communities who need the support, and it\u2019s organisations around the country like the Salvation Army who continue to advocate for sensible reform in this area that will help everyone. This is an issue where it is beyond politics; it is something we can all relate to within our own families, within our own friends. On this issue, where we are debating tonight the penalties that currently apply to people who are doing the right thing, we can help that. We can find a way through, as Casey Costello has said, where people doing the right thing are encouraged to do so, and where there is more information about people needing to do the right thing\u2014that it\u2019s not OK for young people to care for their friends and think they are doing everything right by popping someone in the car and giving them a shower. They need to call for help. We need better information out there for our young people, as well as for everyone dealing with these issues in their community.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000746\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI commend this bill to the House. I look forward to following the submissions closely, and I hope we can find a way through.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022 data-id=\u002288ee2cadfba78791fbacefc9ec130a60\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000747\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b618b847a57b4afb94b76eaea9e042a5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u002288ee2cadfba78791fbacefc9ec130a60\u0022\u003EDr CARLOS CHEUNG (National\u2014Mt Roskill) (21:12)\u003C/span\u003E: First of all, I would like to congratulate the member Kahurangi Carter for her member\u2019s bill being drawn and for trying to address one of the important issues in our community. I also want to begin by acknowledging the very real and tragic harm caused by drug overdose in our communities. Every life lost is a profound failure to protect those who are vulnerable, and we all share responsibility to reduce the harm.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000748\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHowever, while the intention behind this bill may be compassionate, intention alone is not enough. We must carefully consider whether the approach it takes will truly achieve its stated goal. I do not believe this bill will effectively reduce drug overdose deaths. In fact, I\u2019m concerned it may do the opposite. Consider, by removing and softening the legal consequences associated with drug use in overdose situations, this legislation is sending the wrong message: that drug use carries fewer risks. While the aim may be to encourage people to seek help in emergencies, we cannot in law ignore the signal this sends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000749\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELaws do not just punish; they also shape behaviour. If we weaken them in this context, we risk normalising dangerous activities rather than discouraging them. Consider this risk: by softening legal consequences in overdose situations, this bill creates space for exploitation. A drug dealer present could claim protection while calling for help, avoiding immediate accountability and continuing to supply harmful drugs to people. This does not reduce harm. This risks causing even greater harm to our communities.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000750\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt is also important to recognise this in practice. Our front-line response is already grounded in compassion and common sense. Police prioritise saving lives and routinely exercise discretion when minor possession is involved in an overdose situation. Health services, for their part, treat anyone in crisis without hesitation, without judgment, without fear or refusal. The system already supports a health-first response, so we must ask what this bill can truly do. If individuals can already seek urgent help without practical barriers, legislating it risks potentially going further beyond enabling emergency care and instead begins to interrupt the broader disturbance framework.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000751\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe balance we currently have\u2014compassion in Christ, accountability in conduct\u2014it\u2019s not perfect, but it is deliberate. This bill shifts this balance in a way that may have unintended consequences. Prevention must remain at the centre of our efforts. With using drugs, overdose deaths are not just about what happens in the moment of crisis; it is about stopping people from reaching that point in the first place. That means stronger education; early intervention; and clear, consistent signals that drug use is harmful and carries consequences. We should be strengthening our system to protect health, not introducing changes that risk normalising the very behaviour we are trying to reduce. I always say: in order to have a normal life, stay away from alcohol, smoking, gambling, and drugs, and your life will be just fine.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000752\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn closing, while I respect the intent behind this legislation, I remain unconvinced that it will deliver the outcomes it promises. Instead, it risks weakening the deterrence that helps protect our communities and shifting the focus away from the prevention strategies that we know are essential. For this reason, I stand opposed to the bill at its first reading, but I\u2019m happy to listen to some of the feedback from the public during the select committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u00227f988bc72b5e47b8856ba70e41dfbbaf\u0022 data-id=\u0022d0d854798b933c015da2c781fa06ed35\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000753\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u00227f988bc72b5e47b8856ba70e41dfbbaf\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d0d854798b933c015da2c781fa06ed35\u0022\u003EGEORGIE DANSEY (Labour) (21:17)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. I rise on behalf of the Labour Party in support of this bill at its first reading. Congratulations to Kahurangi Carter in bringing your bill to the House. This is the second time I\u2019ve spoken to one of your bills in the last couple of weeks.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000754\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELooking at this bill, it\u2019s a humane and pragmatic piece of legislation. It recognises a simple but deeply important truth: when someone is experiencing drug overdose, the priority must be to save their life. We know that, often, the fear of prosecution acts as a barrier to calling for help, and this bill seeks to remove that barrier by providing protection from low-level drug offences for those who seek emergency assistance. No one should ever hesitate to call 111 when a life is at risk, and this bill helps to break down barriers to contacting emergency services.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000755\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIt has potential to prevent many unnecessary deaths in New Zealand from drug overdose, as other speakers have spoken to already. Other speakers have also spoken about how widespread overdose is in Aotearoa New Zealand. It continues to occur across all our communities, affecting people at different ages, backgrounds, and regions. It does not discriminate. The statistics are pretty stark, and without this bill there is a risk that a delay in asking for help for risk of repercussion could cost a life.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000756\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill takes a harm reduction approach. It acknowledges that criminalisation, particularly at the low-level end, can have unintended consequences. By protecting people at the scene from prosecution for minor offences\u2014whether they are using drugs themselves or simply present\u2014it gives clarity and reassurance in moments of crisis. I think it\u2019s important to emphasise that this bill is not about serious crime; it is protection from minor offences, and Labour supports that intent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000757\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do have some questions and comments to make, and I know these will be worked through at select committee. The first one is that we must ensure we\u2019re careful around the scope of protections. The bill proposes protections across a range of offences, including possession, use, and even social supply in certain contexts. While we understand the rationale, Parliament must be confident that these protections cannot be exploited in ways that undermine our broader drug enforcement or community safety. We must look at this bill within a wider health framework and addressing drug harm in our communities as a whole. I have particular questions around how the police would apply these protections in practice and what the clear guidance will look like to ensure consistency, and how we ensure that communities have confidence the law is being applied fairly and appropriately.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000758\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELabour believes in a balanced approach to drug policy, one that combines enforcement with compassion and accountability with public health. We will support this bill to select committee and hope that there are robust discussions in that space.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022 data-id=\u00224cf299d74c5d140b03e6fec04140431b\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000759\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00224cf299d74c5d140b03e6fec04140431b\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE (National\u2014Takanini) (21:22)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker. I find myself in the kind of \u201Cbetween a rock and a hard place\u201D situation in terms of the subject matter we\u2019re discussing tonight. If we sift the conversation to its core, we\u2019re, essentially, discussing life and death, and we must confront this. We\u2019re discussing situations where people find themselves in the presence of someone who is probably dying\u2014dying if this person does not receive the help they need in this extremely difficult hypothetical situation.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000760\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to acknowledge the passing of Jacob. Our colleague across the House, Kahurangi Carter, placed his picture in front of her and referenced his mother, Shelley. In all honesty, very often, with the laws we\u2019re making\u2014our Government; with respect to getting tough on crime, putting victims first\u2014mothers and fathers come into my mind a lot. While some people might say some of these laws appear harsh, for me, the biggest harshness is a parent losing a child. The delicacy of this subject matter today is that our colleague Kahurangi Carter had her member\u2019s bill pulled out of the ballot, and it\u2019s a member\u2019s bill where, on the face of it, of course, as we\u2019ve traversed across the National Party tonight, the intentions are pure. The intentions are ones that are underpinned with love, with aroha.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000761\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAgain, the delicacy also, I reflect on it, because we don\u2019t support this bill, not because we\u2019re politicking, not because we don\u2019t care about Shelley\u2014no doubt the rest of her life will be a living hell; she\u2019s lost her son\u2014but there\u2019s other reasons, and if I may say, perceptions do matter. It does matter if we\u2019re seen to, essentially, say, \u201CYou know what? Someone can escape criminal prosecution because they thought about themselves more than thinking about the person that was overdosing and could die.\u201D That\u2019s not part of the debate notes. That\u2019s me, personally, saying the anger in me comes from a place of sadness that, if I was in the situation where someone could be dying in front of me, I wouldn\u2019t think twice about calling for help based on the fact that I may be criminally prosecuted. I wouldn\u2019t think twice about it. I\u2019d think about the person\u2019s life. I\u2019d think about the person\u2019s mother. That\u2019s what I\u2019d think about.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000762\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EWhat this bill aims to do is to amend the Misuse of Drugs Act so that, if someone calls for help from emergency services to assist a person who is overdosing, they will, essentially, escape criminal prosecution. Yes, that person is suffering from an addiction\u2014most probably is suffering from an addiction themselves. Our Government and our party has put in place the first Minister for Mental Health ever, and we do take mental health seriously. My older sister is a mental health nurse specialist, and she has said to me for over 20 years that there\u2019s no drug that\u2019s a soft drug.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000763\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe anger I feel is not towards the people who have passed away because of an overdose; it\u2019s towards those who have sold them the drugs and those who stood by them while they were overdosing and thought about their selfish needs other than those of the person who was on their death bed. I don\u2019t support this bill. It seems like eventually it will go through, and be that as it may\u2014\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000764\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002298684c4e04b4592151499feed220fdc6\u0022\u003ERicardo Men\u00E9ndez March\u003C/span\u003E: Good. We don\u2019t need you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000765\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022cf22a832d14a4c99ab5dfd16e24446e5\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002254123b7980d2fad2cfd77d86617edac4\u0022\u003ERIMA NAKHLE\u003C/span\u003E: And you can say your disgusting remarks, Ricardo, but this is how I do feel about it: that you\u2019re protecting those who thought about themselves instead of protecting the lives of others. I don\u2019t commend this bill to the House today.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000766\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002216093855ae36861432965113ba422f04\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019ll just remind members that, when you\u2019re referring to another member in the House, you use their full name. The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000767\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022ff9c32ec02353963021dc6f7b34e4a7c\u0022\u003EKahurangi Carter\u003C/span\u003E: Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000768\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u0022a812c96abe1fda4cc8e79bc3455b0772\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: I\u2019m sorry. I had put the question. You didn\u2019t stand for a call\u2014I wasn\u2019t sure you were taking it\u2014so I have already started the question that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022 data-id=\u00222685581cd0cc0618c8316af787e8b2eb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000769\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b78723aefdc74b11a47482993ca56a74\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222685581cd0cc0618c8316af787e8b2eb\u0022\u003EHon Dr DUNCAN WEBB (Labour\u2014Christchurch Central) (21:27)\u003C/span\u003E: Point of order, Madam Speaker. I seek leave for Kahurangi Carter to take a final call on this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000770\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u00223dcf585a644288c051c84763242bb707\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Leave is sought for that purpose. Is there any objection? There appears to be none.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022 data-id=\u00222b64eacbc996c84cd88a5e6b00544fed\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000771\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022a9132473ddf040a897b92b965ff8d6b1\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00222b64eacbc996c84cd88a5e6b00544fed\u0022\u003EKAHURANGI CARTER (Green) (21:27)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you, Madam Speaker, and thank you to the Hon Dr Duncan Webb and to everybody who has supported this bill tonight.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000772\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI will say it again: no one should die from a drug overdose. No one should be scared to call for help when they or someone they are with needs medical care. I do thank everybody here for acknowledging Jacob Gunnell and his family, and I want everyone to remember that Jacob is not alone. Almost three people die in New Zealand every week of a completely treatable and accidental overdose.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000773\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI ask the members to judge this bill not on my intentions, not on my speech, but on the impact of this bill and what this bill will achieve. You don\u2019t need to believe me. You can listen to the submissions that will happen at select committee. You can read the many reports, you can look at international evidence where good Samaritan provisions are provided and in place.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000774\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI do want to mention that when I\u2019ve talked to people around the country who have experienced a drug overdose or been with someone who has, many times, the reason that they are not calling is not because they are scared for themselves\u2014they are happy to get in trouble. Who they are worried about is the person who is overdosing. They are worried they will lose their jobs. They are worried about the stigma and the shame that it will cause them and their families. I really just want to lay that out there that this is a practical law, this is a common-sense law. This law will save lives.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000775\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand First talked about health promotion, and we are all for health promotion and education, but it is not one or the other. This is a \u201Cyes/and\u201D situation. We can have education and promotion and a law that has proven to save lives and can make a real difference to make sure that, when someone needs life-preserving medical attention, people call for help. That is the message this bill sends.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000776\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ELike I said, you don\u2019t have to believe me, you can read the evidence. You can look at the latest 2026 study by Dr Rose Crossin around how New Zealanders now think of drug addiction as a health issue, not a justice one. You can look at the recent Victoria University study that shows that 41 percent of students know somebody who has overdosed. We\u2019re talking about our brightest minds here. As I said, I implore everyone to listen to those select committee submissions from first responders, from people with lived experience, from families of people who have lost people. When we\u2019re talking about discretion from the police, that argument doesn\u2019t stand here, because people are not calling for help; people are dying. There isn\u2019t discretion being used, because they are literally not being called for help. So, please, go away and learn about this. This is a chance for us all to come together as a whole Parliament to show New Zealand that we care about sensible, safe laws that make a difference to everybody\u2019s lives. Kia ora. Thank you, Madam Speaker.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000777\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EA party vote was called for on the question, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000778\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EAyes 66\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000779\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand Labour 34; Green Party of Aotearoa New Zealand 15; ACT New Zealand 11; Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori 5; Ferris.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000780\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003ENoes 57\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000781\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENew Zealand National 49; New Zealand First 8.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000782\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000783\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill read a first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000784\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u0022d1646db2bf91b4ea39dca1377e9915b7\u0022\u003EReferral to Select Committee\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022 data-id=\u0022d6e472c9178319a70b868800fa63fbef\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000785\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022d6e472c9178319a70b868800fa63fbef\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh) (21:34)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Drug Overdose (Assistance Protection) Legislation Bill be considered by the Health Committee\u003C/span\u003E.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000786\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMotion agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000787\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EBill referred to the Health Committee.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000788\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubjectHeading\u0022 id=\u002266654dcc57494dd1f85b00ff42459bda\u0022\u003EDeepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000789\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsSubproceedingHeading\u0022 id=\u002287a8bab79b1d398a339f4aeb0f79a434\u0022\u003EFirst Reading\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022 data-id=\u00220691a448ade3b221c1f61eeb4328e26e\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000790\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022b064dd56673f4c1cb11c1242823abb92\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u00220691a448ade3b221c1f61eeb4328e26e\u0022\u003ELAURA McCLURE (ACT) (21:34)\u003C/span\u003E: I move, \u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsCharacterItalics\u0022\u003EThat the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill be now read a first time\u003C/span\u003E. I nominate the Social Services Committee to consider this bill.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000791\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EImagine as a parent\u2014and I know that\u2019s not hard for a lot of us in this House, because quite a few of us are a parent\u2014just imagine for a second that your year 9, 13-year-old child is off for a day at school and you get the dreaded phone call that that young girl has attempted suicide. This is not just a nice story\u2014or a bad story\u2014that I am making up to draw attention to this bill; this is actually the reality. This has actually happened to some poor family here in New Zealand. Imagine for a second that you are a father who has found out that your daughter has been deepfaked into all kinds of sexually explicit material and, actually, you are in those images as well because they were taken off her social media at family functions. Imagine how that would feel as a parent.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000792\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDeepfaking somebody into explicit material is one of the worst and most horrible things that you can actually do. We\u2019re not talking about a little bit of fun. We\u2019re not talking about somebody deepfaking you into a bikini for a joke; we\u2019re talking about some of the most horrendous things I have seen, and this is a problem that has been happening right across New Zealand and actually across the world, because we know that the technology is amazing\u2014it\u2019s great, we love it\u2014but it has this dark side and there are individuals who seek to exploit each other with this dark side.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000793\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThere is a grey area in our law. For those families and those victims of this crime, when they have called the police and they\u2019ve gone for help, they\u2019ve found that, while they get support and there is the sympathy side of things, our laws are not up to scratch. Our Harmful Digital Communications Act has a grey area in it, and it does not allow for synthesised images or AI-generated images, and there is that gap in our legislation that is being exploited right now. If we don\u2019t have our police investigating and we don\u2019t have people being held to account, it is basically setting up our young people to say that this is OK, and that this House, this Government, says that it\u2019s OK to do this kind of thing to one another. At the very minimum, we need to say that it is not OK and we need to close that gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000794\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe other thing that happens is there\u2019s no victim support. We know that, if you\u2019re a victim of a crime, you become eligible for Victim Support. Some of these schools and communities are finding themselves up in arms about what to do. They have no support. If you\u2019re the victim, you\u2019re unable to access the likes of ACC to get some counselling and some therapy sessions, so that is another huge reason that we need to make sure that we identify this and close the gap.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000795\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EMadam Speaker, I know that you need me to get on to the specifics of this bill, which is the boring part. In the drafting of this bill, there was a little bit of back and forth. I wanted this legislation to be as clear as possible to ensure that it covers what we want it to cover and doesn\u2019t overreach into areas that we don\u2019t want it to cover, like satire or art, and legitimate uses of AI technology. The select committee will work through the specifics, but I want to ensure the intent behind the legislation is clear and it is on the record.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000796\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis bill amends the Harmful Digital Communications Act and the Crimes Act. The word which appears as written in the legislation is the one that I got questioned about the most during my consultation with academics and with NGOs, etc. A deepfake is by its very nature not a real recording of the person depicted. It is fabrication, but the harm is no less real. The image is presented to the world as though it were that person, and the victim is identified, humiliated, and exploited just the same.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000797\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFor the same reason, we have defined \u201Csubject\u201D to include an individual who appears to be featured or depicted in the recording. The person whose likeness has been hijacked is the victim, regardless of whether they were physically present when the image was generated. That is the whole point of this legislation: to recognise that synthetic, intimate imagery of a real, identifiable person is a violation of that person\u2014full stop. The test for what \u201Cappears to be\u201D is not intended to be a technical one. I trust that the courts will interpret this fairly. The intent is that the test is whether a reasonable person would identify the individual subject depicted. If so, that subject has been violated.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000798\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ENow to three terms: \u201Ccreated\u201D, \u201Csynthesised\u201D, or \u201Caltered\u201D. These are intended to cover actions that make an image appear to depict the person naked, partially clothed, engaged in sexual activity, or in the other circumstances listed. They are not intended to capture trivial edits such as cropping, colour corrections, or the filters that everybody is out there using. The mischief this bill addresses is a creation of those false intimate depictions, not image editing in general.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000799\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI want to be clear about what consent means in the context of synthetic, created material. Consent means, in this bill, that being depicted in a manner showing naked or in sexual activity or in any other intimate circumstances set out, unless you have given your explicit consent to have this made of you, then that is not consent. The bill is not intended to cover any instances where the subject has consented to both the creation, synthesis, and alteration of the image, because, let\u2019s be real, the technology\u2019s out there, and there might be people that do consent to this.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000800\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to be clear about what this bill is not intended to capture. It\u2019s not intended to capture clear parody or satire. This bill targets the material that purports to depict a real identifiable person in genuine intimate circumstances, as set out in the provisions, without their consent. Legitimate political satire and comedic commentary, where it\u2019s clear on the face of the work that it\u2019s not a true depiction of the person, fall outside of this scope. That is partially why I have said that this bill is to go to the Social Services and Community Committee, because the previous speaker, Kahurangi Carter, has a bill before that committee around satire and parody. I think that it\u2019s actually quite fitting that both bills get looked at together so that we do make sure that we cover our protections around our freedom of speech, freedom of expression, and freedom to have some fun. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000801\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI also want to address some of the wider ramifications in the intent regarding them. I\u2019ve heard some suggestions from members about a wider regime, ownership of image, banning of nudify apps etc.,\u2014things that we are seeing around the rest of the world. I don\u2019t intend to state a position on those, other than to say that this is something that we can do right now that would actually have meaningful action. It\u2019s something that we could do right now that says, \u201CYou know what? We don\u2019t actually condone this behaviour.\u201D That message alone can be enough of a deterrence to get people to realise the harm that they are causing.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000802\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EIn relation to all of these aspects of the bill, I would really like to thank a few people. In particular, I want to thank the Helen Clark Foundation for the many conversations that I\u2019ve had with them. I\u2019d also like to thank the many legal professionals from Victoria University, Canterbury University, and Auckland University for all their insights. Thank you for hosting me with some of your students. It\u2019s been a great pleasure to discuss this particular bill and, actually, artificial intelligence in general. I also want to thank the NGOs that are working in this space, whether it\u2019s around the internet or whether it\u2019s about our kids keeping safe on the internet. I want to thank Hana-Rawhiti Maipi-Clarke, who\u2019s here in the building. It\u2019s not often that you see ACT and Te P\u0101ti M\u0101ori working together on a bill. Hana, I want to acknowledge you and thank you for the support that you gave me straight off the bat for this bill. I also want to thank Kahurangi Carter from the Greens, who\u2019s also been an avid supporter of my bill and helping lobby everybody around the House for this bill, which has been great. I want to thank Helen White from Labour. She\u2019s been a great person to talk to about this bill. I know she\u2019s extremely passionate about this area and would like to see some change as well. I also want to thank all of the other parties for your engagement and your support.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000803\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI know that this bill is getting the support of the House, and that means an awful lot to me, but let\u2019s be real: this means an awful lot to all of our kids and future kids that this will protect. Last but not least, I want to thank, actually, my team for the help that they gave me in constructing this bill and give a special mention to Dray, who\u2019s actually up in the gallery tonight. He would be awfully embarrassed that I\u2019ve mentioned him, but as a young researcher, this as one of his first bills that he worked on and drafted for me. Thank you, Dray, for all your support. I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000804\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002272f05ca88bdd31ceb38e6a257e0fde87\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: The question is that the motion be agreed to.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022 data-id=\u0022a6e80a56f86bf31b950c55e3074e44ac\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000805\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u0022f0d31505882949b1a768aad60863fba9\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022a6e80a56f86bf31b950c55e3074e44ac\u0022\u003EJOSEPH MOONEY (National\u2014Southland) (21:44)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you very much, Madam Speaker. I rise to speak on the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill, and I just want to take the opportunity to, first, congratulate Laura McClure for bringing this bill before the House and working on a very difficult issue, one that\u2019s a function of the new technology that\u2019s now available, a very fast-moving technology around artificial intelligence that enables anyone to generate a very realistic image of someone, one that is fake but that people either cannot distinguish or don\u2019t distinguish between that and the actual person. It can cause real harm because these images that circulate do percolate through our digital ecosystem, which, now, increasingly is how people perceive the reality that they exist in, and the perception of other people within the digital ecosystem is that it is increasingly such an important part of our physical world.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000806\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe National Party will be supporting this bill to select committee, where it will then review further support. It wants to hear from submitters. It wants to look at this really carefully, noting that reform relating to deepfakes needs careful analysis and consideration to avoid unintended consequences and is futureproofed in a fast-moving environment where technological advances have exacerbated the production of deepfakes for a variety of purposes. Deepfakes sit on a continuum of realism, and harm caused by the use can make regulation nuanced and complex.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000807\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m pleased to see this going to the Social Services and Community Committee, of which I\u2019m chair. I look forward to the opportunity that we will have to hear from submitters and to work through what is quite a complex but also very difficult issue in a fast-paced, technological environment.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000808\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI note that this bill intends to amend the Crimes Act 1961 and the Harmful Digital Communications Act 2015 to expand the definition of \u201Cintimate visual recording\u201D to include images of videos that are created, synthesised, or altered to depict a person\u2019s likeness in intimate contexts without their consent. Expanding the \u201Cintimate visual recording\u201D definition would add those deepfakes to the existing offences in those Acts relating to creating, publishing, or posting visual recordings.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000809\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAs I mentioned earlier, technological advances mean that almost anyone\u2014and it pretty much is anyone these days\u2014can create highly realistic deepfakes in minutes or less. It\u2019s becoming easier and easier, and this technology is accelerating. It can certainly be used for many beneficial things. As my colleague mentioned before, there are uses where this technology can be relevant to this House in terms of parody, and I think we will be grappling with both of these rather interesting but also complex issues in the current technological framework that we now exist in.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000810\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EHowever, those deepfake images or videos that are sexually explicit or pornographic are a serious and accelerating issue, particularly for young people and particularly, I think, for young women. It is something that we have a duty to make sure that we can have legislation in place that can acknowledge the technological complexity but also really grapple with that harm, which can be very real despite it being a digital pictorial representation. The harms are real and can be quite significant.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000811\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI am looking forward to this. The National Party has always had a big priority on victims and on ensuring we protect people who could be victims and preventing victimisation. We\u2019ve done a lot around this in, for example, the stalking and harassment amendment Act, which created a new stalking and harassment offence. This is an important piece that I really congratulate Laura for bringing before the House so that we can hear from submitters and we can take a careful look at the legislation. With that, I commend this bill to the House.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022 data-id=\u0022e7aea9141f130c3223210ab95cdd13db\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000812\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002232632704a2594ee1b96e617d06beae80\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022e7aea9141f130c3223210ab95cdd13db\u0022\u003EHELEN WHITE (Labour\u2014Mt Albert) (21:48)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you. It\u2019s a pleasure to rise to support this bill. I\u2019d like to thank Laura McClure for bringing it to the House. Last week, I went to a conference that was about domestic violence, and there is a woman called Nikki Denholm, who is a real expert in this area. I had talked to Nikki and seen a presentation maybe a year ago, and three parts of her presentation were utterly new to me, because this landscape is changing so fast. One of those was about deepfakes. It was about something called artificial intelligence companions. Children and adults are creating these companions, and they use often an image that is of somebody that they might have a crush on or somebody they know, without their consent, and they create a companion, and they do what they want with that companion. It\u2019s pretty creepy. I also heard from her that when they have looked at the research, the mainstream porn sites show that there\u2019s aggression\u2014aggression being slapping, rough sex, etc.,\u2014in 45 percent of mainstream porn. These are things that children are looking at, not because they are actually even looking for them but because they are coming up into their social media content.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000813\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EFinally, I just wanted to talk about something I\u2019ve never heard about before, which is a form of fiction, and it\u2019s called dark romance. Nikki asked the audience\u2014who were people like me or they were workers in the area\u2014whether they\u2019d ever heard of dark romance, and nobody put their hand up. She said if she had asked an audience of 18-year-olds, they all would have been putting up their hands. Those are like fan fictions, and what people are doing is they\u2019re contributing to a story which is basically one of abduction, rape, and then turning the rapist into your lover. That is what is going on in the stories that people are telling. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000814\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m telling those stories because I think it\u2019s important that we face the changing landscape head on, or we\u2019re going to have real trouble. One instance of those is the deepfake instance, but many aren\u2019t. This bill won\u2019t solve all those problems. We are going to have to have some really robust discussions. We are going to have to keep an eye on this area and respond to it very effectively, because we\u2019re in trouble here. We have had, recently, a senior police officer looking at child porn and child abuse that was created by artificial intelligence. I am concerned that some people think that that is somehow more acceptable. We have got a problem in this country that is huge and a problem internationally that is huge. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000815\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EAnd so, here\u2019s my last story that I think we should know. There is some really good material, if you look, on people who are concerned about the amount of children abused by web camera, and 500,000 Filipino children have been abused by web camera by people in other countries, ordering that\u2014from places like New Zealand, the US, and the UK. It is horrifying and we must, must, must react to these things. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000816\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI\u2019m grateful that this is coming to my select committee and I can do what I can to get it through as quickly as possible, but I hope that we work cooperatively well beyond this particular contribution, though I value it highly. Thank you.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\u003Ca name=\u0022member\u0022 data-type=\u0022article\u0022 data-memberid=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022 data-id=\u0022eb82a498e94535933ae54b29e0ae61cb\u0022\u003E\u003C/a\u003E\u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000817\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002298c1995a3396432382c4b04f94f6462f\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsByToc\u0022 id=\u0022eb82a498e94535933ae54b29e0ae61cb\u0022\u003ERICARDO MEN\u00C9NDEZ MARCH (Green) (21:53)\u003C/span\u003E: Thank you so much, Madam Speaker. The Green Party is supporting the Deepfake Digital Harm and Exploitation Bill. I want to acknowledge Laura McClure, who, quite briefly, raised this issue in Parliament now a while back and is having the bill being read for the first time.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000818\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EI think what we can all agree on is that creating images that are synthesised or altered to appear to be intimate visual images, with the design to harm or shame someone, is a form of violence. I think this is something that the House can stand behind to actually stamp out and get rid of, hopefully. This bill does amend the Crimes Act and the Harmful Digital Communications Act to basically criminalise the use of these images for the purposes of harming other people. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000819\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EPart of what the Green Party is particularly interested in being able to unpack at the select committee\u2014hopefully constructively with other political parties and submitters, as well as officials\u2014is the penalty for the offence and looking at the evidential basis behind it, as well as looking at, particularly, the issue around how can we also support young people, and particularly, I will say, young men, to move towards a place of a culture where the patriarchal norms that have led to so much violence upon women and other gender minorities can be addressed. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000820\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThe member Laura McClure talked about the technology that enables this violence as being amazing. I think, ultimately, what we have here is not just an issue of a lack of criminality, but one of a culture shift that needs to happen, as well. Ultimately, these are two issues that, for us in the Greens, we want to make sure that we can adequately look at in the select committee stage. \u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000821\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003ESo the Green Party is supporting this bill. We want to again reiterate that for us, this is about addressing a form of violence that can lead to shame, lifelong harm, and\u2014worse\u2014loss of life. We acknowledge that, with emerging technologies, this form of gender-based violence\u2014or gender-based violence more broadly, sorry\u2014can evolve and new ways of enacting violence upon people can be created with new emerging technologies. So once again, we commend the member for her constructive engagement with our political party on this issue, and we look forward to working with her and others in the select committee stage.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000822\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsNormal\u0022 id=\u002235984f61527b4059ae9284acf3c4076b\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsBy\u0022 id=\u002259a1b57450ec8905b4daf6227fcc093e\u0022\u003EASSISTANT SPEAKER (Maureen Pugh)\u003C/span\u003E: Members, this debate is interrupted and is set down for resumption next sitting day. The House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. tomorrow.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000823\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EDebate interrupted.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000824\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022CharacterBoldCentred\u0022\u003EThe House adjourned at 9.57 p.m.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n      \u003Cp id=\u0022id20260429a49c7d46fad3900800000825\u0022\u003E\u003Cspan class=\u0022HpsItem\u0022\u003EThis early draft is automatically published - it is not yet complete and reviewed.\u003C/span\u003E\u003C/p\u003E\n    \u003C/div\u003E\n  \u003C/body\u003E\n\u003C/html\u003E"