Thursday, 2 September 2021

Volume 754

Sitting date: 2 September 2021

THURSDAY, 2 SEPTEMBER 2021

The Speaker took the Chair at 2 p.m.

Karakia/Prayers

SPEAKER: Almighty God, we give thanks for the blessings which have been bestowed on us. Laying aside all personal interests, we acknowledge the Queen and pray for guidance in our deliberations that we may conduct the affairs of this House with wisdom, justice, mercy, and humility for the welfare and peace of New Zealand. Amen.

Business Statement

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): Thank you, Mr Speaker. Next week, the House will continue to meet in a manner that’s appropriate to the alert levels we are in at the time. On Thursday, 7 September, the Estimates debate will resume. Ministers to appear have yet to be finalised, but are likely to include the Ministers of Finance, COVID-19 Response, and Immigration. Further discussion is taking place over whether any other Ministers should appear. As agreed by the Business Committee, the Appropriation (2021/22 Estimates) Bill will then be set down for third reading. As happens every year, the third reading will be taken with the second Imprest Supply Bill of the current financial year. There will be oral questions each day and a general debate on Wednesday.

Of course, in these rapidly evolving times, if there are any further changes to that in the coming days, I will be sure to inform the other parties.

Appropriation (2021/22 Estimates) Bill

Estimates Debate—Presiding Officer

Hon MICHAEL WOODHOUSE (National): I thank the Leader of the House for that update and also for the constructive discussions that are going on about the programme for next week. A couple of matters: firstly, recognising that there has been quite a bit of lost time, can I encourage him, as I’m sure he will, to signal early to the Business Committee if it will be necessary for the House to take urgency or extended hours in the fourth quarter of this year.

Secondly, Mr Speaker, I seek a point of order. I seek leave for the Speaker to chair the committee of the whole House on the Appropriation (2021/22 Estimates) Bill and that while the Speaker chairs the committee, no motion to report to obtain the Speaker’s ruling on a matter of procedure can be accepted, despite Standing Orders 173 and 179.

SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that course of action? There appears to be none.

Business Statement

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Leader of the House): In answer to the member’s question regarding extended sitting and urgency, certainly I think it would be wise to expect that there’ll be at least some extended sittings in the latter part of the year, depending on where we’re at with various alert levels and when we can get back to a point where Parliament can transact business more normally. I think we will absolutely be looking to make up for lost time, given that there’ll be quite a lot of business being built up over this period. I will endeavour to provide as much notice of that as we possibly can. I’d also note that it’s not just Government business that will have been accumulating during that time; we won’t have had members’ days—we’ve already lost one and potentially could lose more. Therefore, I look forward to some constructive discussions about how all of the business before the House that needs to be given attention to before Christmas can be progressed.

Petitions, Papers, Select Committee Reports, and Introduction of Bills

SPEAKER: No petitions, papers, or select committee reports have been presented. No bills have been introduced.

Oral Questions

Questions to Ministers

Question No. 1—Prime Minister

1. DAVID SEYMOUR (Leader—ACT) to the Prime Minister: Does she stand by her statement, “A small handful are not due their day 12 test—but I would caution the member that those are the contacts we know about”; if so, how many contacts are still awaiting a test result now?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): As at 9 a.m. this morning, we have 515 known contacts in the South Island. Of that, 15 are overdue their day 12 test and are being actively followed up by public health units. Seven are not yet due their day 12 test. I would remind the member that the restrictions that are in place at the moment across New Zealand in some areas are there as a matter of caution, given that we are dealing with a Delta outbreak. We cannot be 100 percent certain that we know every single contact that was had in this outbreak, or how many of them may be in the South Island. It is better that we get this right and ensure that we do not find a positive case in the South while we’re at lower alert levels, which could have devastating consequences.

David Seymour: Why wouldn’t the Government simply isolate those remaining 22 people so the other million South Islanders can address other aspects of their wellbeing—such as the survival of their businesses, their children’s education, and their healthcare—at lower alert levels?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: All contacts are required to isolate. They are in isolation. They in some cases have not yet had their final day 12 tests, or in other cases they’re not yet overdue them. Yesterday, if I recall correctly, amongst the numbers that we reported, of those contacts that we had, roughly 40 percent of them returned positive results on their day 12 test, so it does demonstrate that they’re important. You then need to contact trace around those individuals and ensure that if they have exposure events, there aren’t knock-on cases. So even though they’re isolated, caution would still suggest keeping the alert levels where they are, not only till we get through that period but also because we cannot be 100 percent certain we have every known contact.

David Seymour: Did the Prime Minister understand it would take three weeks to be sure there were no cases in the South Island when she first announced a short, sharp lockdown, and if she did, why didn’t she say so at the time?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: When we discovered case A, we did not know at what point that person was infected or, indeed, if they were at the beginning of the chain. We’ve since discovered that Delta was, effectively, in our community for more than a week. Unlike the August outbreak, where we saw potentially an outbreak that had been in the community for possibly three weeks, Delta got a head start that had a far more devastating effect. We’ve since modelled that we could have had this week upwards of 500 cases a day, had we not locked down. So we went short and sharp while we identified information, and since then identified information that Delta did have a big head start on us and that we needed to be careful.

David Seymour: How long does the Prime Minister believe it is sustainable to maintain its current strategy if a single initial case can lead to lockdowns that take weeks and weeks and weeks before the Government has any confidence about lifting them?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: I’m going to start by correcting the member. That single initial case had hundreds of cases around it. It’s simply not correct to assume that we had one case here and that everything that’s been done was because of one case. We literally had hundreds. You can see in the outbreak now we’re working very hard to ensure that that doesn’t have a negative effect on people in the South Island. I would actually just finish by reflecting on the comments made by a business owner in the South Island who says, “There’s a whole [lot of] risk involved [with] us as well under level 2. We’ve got people coming in our doors so you know the risk of us getting a case on site and getting shut down for a prolonged period of time is quite significant [to] us. … I think Delta changes things a little bit, and [I’m] definitely supportive of a more cautious approach”.

Question No. 2—Prime Minister

2. Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Leader of the Opposition) to the Prime Minister: What did she mean yesterday when she said, “When the outbreak started, we saw, of course, as you may expect, some demand lift”, and does she accept that prior to the current outbreak, eligible people wanted to get vaccines but were not able to secure appointments?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN (Prime Minister): Yes, I stand by what I said and, no, I do not accept the member’s assertion.

Hon Judith Collins: Why did it take an outbreak to try and speed up vaccine orders when, in July, Stuff reported that over 37,000 group 3 eligible people called a vaccine hotline due to being unable to secure a booking for a COVID-19 vaccine?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The biggest constraint, in fact the only constraint, we have faced is supply, is the delivery of the contracted doses we have with Pfizer—those doses being delivered into New Zealand. So whilst we get, basically, a four-weekly heads-up on what we can expect—we’re told across a quarter of what we can expect—the constraint has been delivery by the pharmaceutical company whom we contracted and began negotiations with before they even finished their clinical trials.

Hon Judith Collins: Well, if Pfizer is the excuse, can she explain how Canada, Israel, and Germany can all run a Pfizer-focused strategy and achieve double the vaccination rates that we have?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: The first thing I’d say is that, actually, per capita, we are beating them on peak doses at the moment by quite some margin with the delivery that we are going through. The second point I would make is that they still have restrictions in place, because they still have outbreaks despite having started their vaccine roll-out sooner. I would also point out we have lower case rates, lower death rates, lower levels of restrictions. All of that, for me, is a measure of success, a measure of success in whether or not your relative strategy for COVID, of which there is no costless response—whether or not you’ve adopted the right strategy for your country. On vaccination programmes, so those countries, of course, they all have multiple vaccines. We decided to deliver Pfizer, and in some cases they used emergency approvals rather than going through a full approval process, as we did.

Hon Judith Collins: Did New Zealand have sufficient vaccine supply in June when the Kāpiti coast man in his 80s told Radio New Zealand he was eligible and wants to get a vaccine, but was told by his DHB a vaccine appointment was not then available?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: What I can tell you is that the date that we were releasing cohort invitations—for instance, for the 60- to 64-year-olds—76,000 bookings were made at that time. For the next cohort, another 70,000; that’s on day one. For the 50- to 55-year-olds, 86,000 bookings were made on day one. For the 40- to 49-year-olds, 137,000 bookings on day one. In fact, for 1 September we had 196,000 bookings made on day one. So those bookings have been available, not necessarily on the precise day someone has wanted, but they have been available. What we’ve also done is increase the providers that are available as we’ve rolled out as well. So in the beginning we had a booking system that didn’t necessarily consolidate all of those providers. So that’s where you did see some examples of people who may not have been able to access a local booking in a timely way, because they didn’t necessarily have access to all of the capacity across the area, but we’ve now consolidated that. We’ve got a single place where you book and we’ve brought on new providers. So we have now GPs, pharmacies. That’s all grown over time.

Hon Chris Hipkins: Did the Prime Minister and her Ministers indicate at the beginning of the year, when the Government opted for a Pfizer-only campaign, that that would mean that we would have to wait until the second half of the year to get the bulk of the doses delivered into New Zealand, and did discussions start almost immediately at that point to see whether we could speed up those deliveries?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Yes, that’s absolutely correct, and the member will be familiar, because he’s been part of those discussions with Pfizer around bringing forward those orders as much as possible. Whilst we’ve always acknowledged that there are constraints on the pharmaceutical companies who have enormous demands on supply across the globe, we have managed to get the completion of our order through the month of October, whereas you will have heard us initially in the campaign saying that those deliveries would occur across the fourth quarter.

Hon Judith Collins: So is the Prime Minister seriously telling the House that the 37,000 people who, according to Stuff in July, had called a vaccine hotline due to being unable to secure a booking for a COVID-19 vaccine were simply wrong—37,000 people?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Actually, all I can do is refer to the numbers that we have now. I guess the proof will be in whether or not those individuals are indeed vaccinated. So 91 percent of people aged 65-plus are either booked or have been vaccinated with at least one dose—91 percent of people aged 65-plus are booked or have been vaccinated with at least one dose. My challenge, then, would be to every other age cohort to see if they can rival the incredibly high take-up rate of our 65-pluses. In the hunt, are our 40-pluses—they’re at 83 percent booked or with at least one dose. If we drop down to the 30-plus, 79 percent are booked or have at least one dose. And then really heartening, given we only opened up on 1 September, 70 percent of people aged 12-plus are booked or have been vaccinated with at least one dose. Those are really heartening numbers; we just need to keep going.

Hon Judith Collins: Does she agree that New Zealand will achieve 90 percent vaccination by the end of the year, as her economic and regional development Minister said yesterday?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: Actually, I think what you’ll find there is the Minister was suggesting that he feels very positive about the likelihood of a high percentage of New Zealanders taking up the opportunity to be vaccinated, because it is true to say that every single person in New Zealand over the age of 12 will have access to a vaccine. So it’s up to us to make it as available and as accessible as possible, but when we even take out the bookings, 86 percent of people aged 65-plus have been vaccinated with one dose already. So he’s obviously basing that on what he’s seeing with people anticipating going to get vaccinated, and he’s trying to encourage everyone to continue with those bookings.

Hon Judith Collins: Point of order. I seek leave of this House to propose a motion without debate that this House adopts a COVID-19 vaccination target of 90 percent by the end of the year.

SPEAKER: Is there any objection to that course of action. There is objection.

Hon Chris Hipkins: Which does the Prime Minister think would be the more responsible course of action: encouraging every eligible New Zealander to take up the vaccine or setting a target, as was proposed only a few days ago, that would suggest that up to 30 percent of New Zealanders could be encouraged not to?

Rt Hon JACINDA ARDERN: That is absolutely the issue that public health experts have pointed to. Of course, the targets only talk about those who are eligible to be vaccinated, and we know, at the moment, unfortunately, children are not in that group right now, and so that means we want as many people as possible, and that means not creating space for someone to believe that they should be part of the 10 or the 30 percent.

Question No. 3—Finance

3. Hon LOUISE UPSTON (National—Taupō) to the Minister of Finance: How does the new requirement to reapply for the COVID-19 Wage Subsidy every fortnight help businesses and employees?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): As we announced in December, our move to a two-weekly cycle, this is designed to ensure as part of the new way that the wage subsidy scheme is delivered, to give certainty that when we are at alert levels 3 or 4, the wage subsidy scheme will be available. It will help businesses by ensuring that there is a sustainable scheme, and one that has integrity.

Hon Louise Upston: Have new requirements, like having to reapply every fortnight, been imposed because the Government only set aside $500 million to cover a wage subsidy reactivation scheme in the current imprest supply, and, if not, what is the reason?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the first part of the question, absolutely not, and the member completely misunderstands what the imprest supply bill is. The reason the change has been made is to ensure that we have a sustainable scheme and, indeed, the member might like to recall the words of her current leader, who said in the first round of the wage subsidy scheme that it needed to be more carefully put in place. The Government has made changes to ensure that’s happening.

Hon Louise Upston: How do these new requirements help those experiencing delays receiving the first subsidy payment, such as one business owner who said, “Eleven days and waiting to receive my business subsidy for my 20-plus staff. Three phone calls to MSD and told each time ‘it’s in processing’. Not very helpful.”?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The experience of the vast bulk of people who have applied for the wage subsidy scheme has been one where they have been mightily impressed by the speed in which applications have been processed. And on that note, I thank the member’s colleague Chris Bishop, who went out of his way on his Facebook page to seek people who were having problems and was inundated with comments from people who said, “No issues at all, always been fast for us”, “Applied for Wage Subsidy at 2.20 last Wednesday, received”—

SPEAKER: Order! Order! The member’s being repetitive.

Hon Louise Upston: How many employees will miss out on wages for this level 4 lockdown because businesses missed the application deadline for the first fortnightly period?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Businesses are aware of the application deadline; there is no way of quantifying what the member is putting forward. What I do know is that the scheme is supporting, once again, hundreds of thousands of New Zealanders to stay attached to their job. It has been a very successful scheme that has contributed well to making sure not only that New Zealanders stay in work but that the economy recovers.

Hon Louise Upston: Does he accept new wage subsidy requirements that hurt businesses increase the risk that more New Zealanders will lose their jobs?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: No, because I simply don’t accept the premise of the member’s question.

Question No. 4—Finance

4. Hon JAMES SHAW (Co-Leader—Green) to the Minister of Finance: Does he stand by his statement regarding people in hardship that “what we want to do is ensure that the current forms of support we have are adequate”; if so, will the Government take action in response to the Salvation Army’s observation that despite actions taken so far, “critical food insecurity issues for people and whānau persist”?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): As the member will appreciate, responding to an outbreak of this sort is an ongoing challenge which means that we are constantly monitoring the impact of COVID-19 on different groups in society. This does include reassessing the adequacy of support that is available and, where we need to, to take further action. A good example of this just today was the announcement by Ministers Henare and Sio of $23 million additional support through the Whānau Ora programme, comprising $8.8 million of direct support for hard-to-reach whānau with complex needs, and a further $14.2 million available to be distributed in response to additional needs amongst communities more affected by the changes. In addition to that, the Government has announced $26 million today to support Pasifika health and disability services in recognition of the impact the recent outbreak has had on those communities. We will continue to reassess the situation and provide support as we can.

Hon James Shaw: Does he agree with the Salvation Army that “food hardship is always a symptom of other issues facing that person or whānau.”, and, if so, what new actions will the Government take to address housing costs, power bills, and other strains on household budgets during the lockdown?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: In answer to the first part of the question, yes, I would accept that that is often the case. That is why we have a range of supports available to people to be able to work on issues like rent or power bills. And I do note that the number of calls the Ministry of Social Development (MSD) is getting is higher than normal, and it is about responding to those needs both through emergency grants and other forms of support.

Hon James Shaw: Will he consider using the COVID Response and Recovery Fund to provide more income support so that people can shop and buy their own food and take pressure off food parcel providers who are, obviously, experiencing huge demand?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: As we discussed yesterday, obviously, we have increased our main benefit significantly and there is more to come in that regard on 1 April with the announcement we made in the Budget. The nature of a situation like this, where it is a crisis situation, is that it is important to get the food and the support out quickly. That’s why we use the agencies and the approaches that we do. Longer term, we continue to look for ways that we can support our low-income New Zealanders.

Hon James Shaw: If—just in reference to—what he’s just said about the speed at which support is to be deployed is correct, can he confirm that last year during lockdown there were only seven days between when the Cabinet made the decision to provide the wage subsidy and when the first cheques were, essentially, being written to businesses?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I believe it may have even been quicker, actually, in terms of, perhaps, about five days. The problem—and not that I’m suggesting necessarily this is what the Government is doing here—with making changes to main benefit rates, for instance, is they do have a significantly longer lead time.

Hon James Shaw: Why is that?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: That is a very, very good question, and I don’t have the answer for it today, but it does relate to the way in which the Ministry of Social Development’s systems work. There is a very, very large number of people involved, and when we are changing supports, that, in turn, triggers other changes to other assistance that they might be getting as well. So it’s complex but it has been one of the issues that, over my time as a Minister, I have sought answers on because I do believe that when Governments make policy changes, we should be able to implement them as soon as possible.

Hon James Shaw: Will he consider using the COVID Response and Recovery Fund to support people with phone or internet credit so that they can actually contact MSD and access the support that is available?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: If there are people in the situation where they simply are unable to contact MSD, we would want to know about that and ensure that we can support them in their immediate situation. In terms of more broad support on paying bills like that, that is indeed what emergency assistance through MSD can be used for.

Hon James Shaw: Will the Government increase the thresholds for housing-related special needs grants, as it did last year, and, if not, why not?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: At this stage, the Government does not have a plan to do that, but, as I said in my primary answer, we continue to monitor the impact of this outbreak on our low-income households and we will respond accordingly.

Hon James Shaw: In light of that answer, what further evidence of hardship during the lockdown is the Government looking for before it decides that it’s going to take new actions to support those people who are really doing it tough right now?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: Well, as I say, we are in a continuous process of that. You will have seen, as I referenced in my primary answer, that we have responded where we have the relationships where we know we’ve got the systems in place. It’s not a matter of a particular threshold or anything like that; it’s simply responding to what we see in the community.

Question No. 5—Finance

5. Hon TODD McCLAY (National—Rotorua) to the Minister of Finance: Does he believe that the current COVID-related financial support for struggling businesses is adequate, and how many businesses, if any, does he expect to close permanently as a result of level 3 and level 4 lockdown restrictions?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON (Minister of Finance): Generally speaking, yes, but as we have done throughout the pandemic, we monitor and modify the support provided to our businesses, our workers, and low-income New Zealanders as circumstances change. In answer to the second part of the member’s question, I cannot predict the future, but what I can say is that last lockdown company liquidations actually decreased compared to the previous year, and liquidations over this last year have tracked very similarly to previous years. I recognise that many businesses are doing it tough at the moment, and we will continue to support them.

Hon Todd McClay: Will he extend the resurgence support payment, the small-business cash flow, and the debt hibernation schemes to the 35,000 businesses started in the last six months that are currently excluded and facing significant financial hardship as a result?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I thank the member for his letter on that matter that he sent me yesterday, and I repeat the answer that I gave to the primary question: we continually look to see how we can provide the support to businesses as they need it.

Hon Todd McClay: What additional support will he give to Auckland businesses who may face another four or five weeks of lockdown restrictions, in light of reports that more than 80 percent of hospitality businesses are saying they are unsustainable after just four weeks of restrictions and could face closure?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I refer the member to my answers to earlier questions—that we will continue to look to see what support we can give to businesses. One point I would note around the question of targeting to a particular region is that one of the things we learnt in the last outbreak is that when there are restrictions in Auckland, that has an impact all over New Zealand, and so, therefore, we have tended to make sure that supports are available universally, but, as I said, we will continue to see what else we can do to support our businesses.

Hon Todd McClay: Has he asked the tourism Minister why he re-announced a scheme this week for four South Island regions to provide money to consultants to tell tourism businesses they don’t have any tourists and how to close, and wouldn’t a reprioritisation of existing funds to actually help these businesses get through be better?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I do not accept the member’s characterisation of either the announcement or the scheme.

Hon Todd McClay: What financial support will he give to small businesses and landlords, many of whom are small businesses themselves, to specifically help with rent during level 4 and level 3 restrictions, and will he work with us on a proposal to provide urgently needed assistance for their mounting rent bills?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: The resurgence support payment, which we brought in last year that is now being paid out through this lockdown, was designed to address in part the issue of fixed costs, which include rent, and that payment has been paid out to the tune, I think, of around $428 million, and along with the wage subsidy scheme means that a grand total of $1.37 billion has been paid out to businesses in New Zealand over the last couple of weeks. That is an important contribution. I recognise, as I said earlier, businesses are doing it tough at this time, but it is important that we continue to monitor the schemes and see what we can do to change. I’ve noted the member’s proposal that he put forward. It will be one of a number of things that we consider over coming days.

Hon James Shaw: Can he confirm that last year the Government did considerable work on options for commercial rent relief for small businesses until those solutions were blocked by a party no longer represented in this House, and, if so, will he renew that work now?

Hon GRANT ROBERTSON: I’ll answer the latter part of the member’s question by saying that I am aware that Ministry of Justice officials who are responsible for the piece of legislation concerned continue to do work in that area, and in terms of the first part of the member’s question, history is remembered by people in different ways and can be written up in the future.

Question No. 6—COVID-19 Response

6. CHRIS BISHOP (National) to the Minister for COVID-19 Response: How many COVID-positive people are awaiting transfer to quarantine facilities, if any, and is he satisfied that the Government’s MIQ facilities were appropriately prepared for the Delta variant arriving in New Zealand?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS (Minister for COVID-19 Response): In answer to the first part of the question, I am advised by managed isolation and quarantine (MIQ) that they are collecting all cases within 24 hours of them being referred to them by Auckland Regional Public Health Service and transferring them to MIQ. As at 1 p.m. today there are 78 people who have tested positive in the community who are not yet in quarantine. That is in the context of 736 cases overall. Some of those cases will have only been recent, bearing in mind that there were 49 cases that have just been reported this morning that have come in in the last 24 hours. In answer to the second part of the question, yes, overall I am satisfied with our MIQ facilities and the preparations that they have put in place to deal with new variants of the virus. Regular infection and prevention and control audits are done of all of our facilities, which does take into account the most recent scientific information that we know about the virus.

Chris Bishop: Thank you for the answer. Does he have any knowledge as to the maximum length of time that any one person has waited to be transferred to a quarantine facility after testing COVID positive, and, if so, what is it?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don’t have that historical information, although, when I say “historical”—beyond the last 24 hours or so. I am now confident, based on the advice that I’ve got, that any backlog has been cleared and that they are now picking people up within 24 hours. When the surge in the case numbers first started coming through, it is fair to say that there was a backlog, and some people were waiting between referral and being picked up. Not all of that, though, was sitting with MIQ. A lot of that was sitting with Auckland Regional Public Health Service, in the sense that they weren’t necessarily referring cases to MIQ and giving them the information to go and collect people in as timely a manner as we would like them to. I understand that that blockage has now been resolved and that they are now—once the case investigation part, the interview part, is complete—referring those cases to MIQ and MIQ are collecting them within 24 hours.

Chris Bishop: How can it possibly be the case that no issues were raised in infection control audits about both the public walkway next to the exercise area and the public atrium at the Crowne Plaza, and if both those issues pass muster, why have both situations been ameliorated as a matter of urgency in recent days?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: In terms of the walkway beside the Crowne Plaza, it’s important to note that there is a high, solid wall between the area where people could have been exercising and anyone walking through the walkway. If we were to determine that a solid wall is insufficient protection, that would mean almost all of our MIQ facilities would have to stop being used. The issue is whether there was potential for airflow between the exercise area and the walkway, and the overall conclusion of previous infection and prevention and control audits was that there wasn’t. In terms of the atrium, where the perspex screen did not go all the way to the ceiling, that was not picked up by previous infection and prevention and control audits. It is something that they’ll look closely at as to whether or not it should have been picked up. It has now been remediated.

Chris Bishop: Why are COVID-positive people allowed to exercise in the underground car park at the Grand Mercure in Wellington, when the Prime Minister just told the 1 p.m. press conference that COVID-positive people were confined to their rooms?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: The overall issue of exercise of people in MIQ is a topic of conversation with the Ombudsman, who has some very strong views on this particular case, including Mandela rights, which suggest that people in incarceration should still be able to get outside at least once a day to see the sky. In terms of the Grand Mercure facility in Wellington, people who are in that facility can exercise in, effectively, an enclosed car park—although the sides of the car park are open, but they are well distanced from anybody else. The Grand Mercure in Wellington is used as a combined quarantine and isolation facility. Those who are in quarantine have much more stringent requirements around them than those who are in isolation.

Chris Bishop: How many rooms at the Novotel in Ellerslie, the Ibis in Auckland, and the Holiday Inn Auckland have air filtration systems installed in the rooms?

Hon CHRIS HIPKINS: I don’t have that particular number to hand.

Question No. 7—Health

7. MATT DOOCEY (National—Waimakariri) to the Minister of Health: How does he reconcile Dr Susanna Every-Palmer’s research that one year after the first lockdown, levels of psychological distress remained elevated, even though there were no lockdown restrictions in place, with his comment that “Wellbeing dipped slightly during March-April 2020’s Alert Level 4, but quickly recovered as alert levels decreased”, and does he now recognise that higher levels of mental distress have continued to be felt in the community as a result of COVID-19?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE (Minister of Health): The member is referring to two different conclusions drawn from two different studies with completely different methodologies. I’m advised that Dr Susanna Every-Palmer’s conclusions were drawn from a survey of roughly 2,000 people in April 2021 as a follow-up to a survey she conducted in April last year. My comments related to the Ministry of Health New Zealand health pulse survey of 29,000 New Zealanders conducted last year from April to September. In response to the second part of the question, it is a statement of the bleeding obvious that the disruption caused by and the health risk created by the COVID-19 pandemic has had an effect on the mental wellbeing of New Zealanders. We know there are elevated levels of anxiety in the community, and that is why we have invested in a number of initiatives to provide additional support to people during lockdown.

Matt Doocey: In response to the Minister’s answer “bleeding obvious”, what actions has the Minister taken to ensure mental health support for the 35 percent of tourism operators where mental health concerns have been identified as a result of the impacts of COVID-19?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: Earlier this year, my colleague the Hon Stuart Nash made a specific announcement and launched a specific package of mental health support for tourism operators.

Matt Doocey: What actions has the Minister taken to ensure mental health support for the 50 percent of small-business owners where mental health concerns have been identified as a result of the impacts of COVID-19?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: By way of contrast to the neglect shown to the mental health sector by the previous Government over nine years, this Government has invested heavily in the mental health support and services in this country. So the additional 560 fulltime-equivalent people who now stand at the front line in GP clinics and comparable clinics are available to support people, whether small-business owners or otherwise, with their mild to moderate mental health issues, both through lockdowns such as this and at any other time during the year.

Matt Doocey: In response to the Minister’s answers about the front-line mental health services, what does he say to the tourism operators and small-business owners who might be registered at the over 70 percent of GP practices who still don’t deliver that front-line mental health service two years after it was announced?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I say to those people that in addition to that particular programme of work, which is a four- to five-year programme of work that we are roughly halfway through, we have provided online help as well: telehealth services, including 1737, and expanded and boosted that service; and for younger people we have, in fact, even just recently, provided additional funding to services such as Youthline, OutLine, and we’ve recently called for quick bids for others providing mental health support to young people, particularly to Māori and Pacific populations.

Matt Doocey: Why was funding stopped for the successful It’s All Right campaign, which provided COVID-19 - related mental health promotion and awareness resources last year in the lockdown?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: This Government has continued a range of psychosocial support services that were started during lockdown 2020 and continue now. These include digital wellbeing services and they include Whakatau Mai wellbeing sessions, Staying on Track, Small Steps, and Getting Through Together. There is a range of online and telehealth services available to New Zealanders.

Matt Doocey: Point of order, Mr Speaker. I specifically asked why was funding stopped for a specific programme.

SPEAKER: Yes, and if the member’s original question had referred to that specific programme, then the member could expect a specific answer. There are a series of very good rulings, including that from my predecessor—who I know the member knows well—which indicate that to get a specific answer, you’ve got to ask a specific question.

Matt Doocey: Thank you very much for that ruling, Mr Speaker. My supplementary: with younger people reporting higher rates of COVID-19 - related mental distress, what actions has he taken since last year’s lockdown to address the doubling of the number of children who are waiting more than eight weeks for treatment?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: I refer to the measures that I have already referred to in this session that the Government has taken in terms of online and telehealth services. The Ministry of Health continues to work with those DHBs who are experiencing elevated levels of demand for acute services, and that is a piece of ongoing work.

Hon James Shaw: What extra support is the Government making available to front-line youth mental health services in Auckland during the lockdown?

Hon ANDREW LITTLE: In about the first week of this lockdown, this Government, because of the extraordinary level of demand that was being experienced by Youthline and OutLine to telehealth services that are available to young people, we provided additional support—$275,000—to Youthline, additional funding to OutLine, and we have recently called for bids in a very quick format for other services that are providing support to, particularly, rangitahi and young Pacific people.

Urgent Questions

Urgent Question to Minister—

Declined

SPEAKER: Members, I have received from Chris Bishop an application for an urgent question and, because of our unusual circumstances, I haven’t been able to communicate in the way that I normally would as to whether it is accepted or not.

I have decided to decline the question, and I’m giving reasons, notwithstanding the rulings that generally Speakers shouldn’t, because I haven’t been able to do that in the current circumstances. I will refer the member to Speakers’ rulings 197/5-6 and 198/1, which essentially indicate that an urgent question is important if something is ongoing and needs the immediate attention of the House. In this particular question, which is about a COVID-positive person who had escaped from a facility, if that person was still in the community, then I think it would be appropriate for the question to be asked. Now, the second leg of the question goes to the investigation, and that is, I think, a question which could be asked at some stage in the future and doesn’t have to be asked today.

In accordance with the determination of the Business Committee the House stands adjourned until 2 p.m. on Tuesday, 7 September 2021.

The House adjourned at 2.44 p.m.